February 10, 2025 • 46 mins
In this insightful episode of Caffeinated Chaos, host Whitney Aguon chats with writer and mental wellness advocate Troy Karnes about personal growth, overcoming struggles, and the power of daily habits. They dive deep into the importance of accountability, self-discipline, and community support—whether in sobriety, business, or life.
Troy shares valuable insights from the recovery community, emphasizing the "one day at a time" approach and how small, consistent actions lead to long-term success. He also highlights the role of friendships, support networks, and self-awareness in personal development.
Additionally, Troy introduces his structured journaling method, explaining how writing helps process emotions, reduce mental clutter, and create clarity. If you’ve ever struggled with motivation, maintaining habits, or expressing your thoughts, this episode is packed with practical takeaways!
Key Topics Covered:
✔️ HALT = Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired
✔️ FORD = Family, Occupation, Recreational, Dreams
Resources & Links:
🔗 Connect with Troy Carnes: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/troykarnes/
📖 Upcoming Book: No Silver Bullets - CLICK HERE to Pre-order the book
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💬 What was your biggest takeaway from this episode? Share your thoughts in the comments or tag us on social media!
Cheers! Thank you for joining us for another episode. Have a chaotic moment, question, or topic you want us to cover? Drop us a message or leave a review! If you loved this episode, share it with a friend who thrives in beautiful chaos too.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome back to CaffeinatedChaos.
Today, we are going to be joinedby our guest, Troy.
He is a father, a husband, arecovering alcoholic, and a
salesman.
He's survived cancer, he's abusiness consultant, and a
writer.
I know, so many things.
We are going to get into so muchtoday.
There are so many great thingsyou're going to get from this
(00:22):
episode, so stay tuned and let'swelcome Troy to Caffeinated
Chaos.
Welcome to the podcast, Troy.
It's so nice to have you here.
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
Whitney.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
So what should we start with?
First?
Should we start with yourchaotic moment first?
We can.
Yeah.
(00:43):
Let's just get it out of theway.
Let's just get it out of theway.
Okay.
So this is, this is like acouple of months ago and I get a
call from my kids, like summerand they're like, he's a mess.
You have to come get him.
He's good.
He's going crazy.
Like he's like just massive,massive tantrum.
Right.
And I'm like.
(01:03):
I start freaking out.
I like jumped.
In the car, because sevenminutes after they call me, I am
supposed to onboard a client fora brand new like consulting
venture that I started and like,this is the first one, right?
Like, there's like all thispressure and I'm like, Oh my
(01:25):
God, this is like I've beenworking so long to get this one
guy and then I got him and now Ihave to, like, I'm going to be
late, like, there's no way I cando this call from the car, like,
it's supposed to be on Zoom, I'mgoing to be on camera with him,
like, the whole thing, like,just a, just a disaster, right?
Oh no! And I'm just fuming,like, the whole drive, and I'm,
(01:46):
uh, you know, when you're anadult, you don't speed, you just
make good time.
So I was making really goodtime.
I was making really good timeand I get there and I like scoop
the kid out and I'm like, bringhim out.
I'm like, don't even, don'teven, someone, someone turn
around.
And then like, I like get backon.
Like, hey man, I'm sorry.
Like I was an hour late.
(02:07):
I'd be an hour late to thisthing.
And the guy was so gracious.
They're amazing.
He was like.
It's fine.
Sorry, like life happens.
I was like, Oh, and like, what areminder that like, people are
generally pretty cool, you know,and like, understand that shit
happens in life.
And it happens to everybody.
It's not like I'm the onlyperson who has chaos.
(02:30):
Like, you have this whole thing.
So people get talking aboutchaos, right?
So yes, yes.
That's like the whole thingwe're doing here is making it
more relatable.
And like, You don't have to beembarrassed if stuff goes quote
unquote wrong like it, you know,and I was, I was so embarrassed
and I was like, you know, likeyou want to nail the first one,
right?
Like, I'm so professional.
(02:50):
I'm like, good.
I'm like, well, and, and yeah,he's like, yeah, it's fine.
It's fine.
Okay, well, I feel like a lot ofour listeners can definitely
like relate to that.
Like, I know that I can.
Relate to that.
Even before this I was likedoing my part time job and I had
(03:11):
like An hour between getting offof that and meeting with you,
and I'm just like, how manytacos can I stuff in my face
before I have to go put mymakeup on and get ready?
And then I was like, two.
Two is the number, Troy.
That's, that's how many I atefor lunch.
How did you know I would ask?
I was gonna ask.
(03:31):
Yeah, two.
That's good.
Two.
I saw it in your eyes.
So, yeah.
Um, okay.
So, now that we kind of talkedabout that, why don't we
actually tell the listeners whatyou do, you know?
Now that they've, now thatthey've got their tea, we've
spilled the tea on that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, I'm, I'm a writer.
(03:51):
I'm a writer.
I have a, I have a manuscriptthat's, I'm revising it.
Deep, deep in revisions thatwe'll publish in the spring,
which is very exciting.
Uh, and then I do ghostwritingas well.
So that's like what pays thebills.
Okay.
Let me, let me ask.
I was an editor in high schooland do you, cause I don't, I
(04:14):
feel like this for me was athing.
Do you feel like it takes moretime for the revisions than the
actual writing the raw document?
Like the first time you'rewriting the words.
You know, um, yeah, it's gonnabe, it's gonna be equal parts.
It will, it will be equal partsfor me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But fair.
(04:34):
I, I was a sports editor in highschool and I like, sometimes I'm
just like, Am I saying the rightwords?
And then I was like, I'll hit itin revision.
And then I'm like sitting thereand I'm like, Rethinking
everything.
And I was like, Whitney, it'ssports.
Like people really just care.
What's the final score?
Like, do we win or do we lose?
(04:55):
Like, you know?
Yeah.
Uh, yeah, for me, well, listen,it's, it's going to end up being
equal parts because if not, yes,I mean, the revisions could be.
Never ending.
Right.
Like if you're just like drivingtowards perfectionism, then it
could never, it could never end.
Right.
Yep.
Yep.
(05:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's like sort of thething about perfectionism.
I thought about this the otherday.
And like, maybe this is a littleoff topic, but like, yeah,
chasing is, Oh, okay.
Uh, so like I had to stop there,like chasing perfectionism,
right.
It's like running on a treadmilland trying to catch yourself in
the mirror.
Right.
Oh, that's a good one.
(05:36):
Cause you never will.
You work so damn hard.
And you'll never get there,right?
You'll never get the guy in themirror, or the girl in the
mirror, or whatever, right?
Yeah, but you'll, you'll workreal hard trying.
Yeah.
So I try to, I try to thinkabout that now.
Like, hey, it's good, like,okay, it just has to be done at
some point, and then it's done,flaws and all.
I, I think right there, Troy, isour little snippet for the
(05:59):
preview of this episode.
Amazing.
I've never thought about it thatway, but that's such a good way
of looking at it.
I mean, if you ever catch theperson in the mirror, it just
means that your treadmill brokeand you ran into the mirror.
Um, which is so embarrassing,but would make us such a great
story for this podcast, too.
(06:20):
If it ever happens to me, I'llever happens.
Yeah, I'll come back.
Yeah, I'll come back.
So we are gonna talk a littlebit about friendship today, like
friendship building and havingpeople in your life that you can
actually, go to and talk to,which is actually a really great
topic.
Um, I feel like as I moved intomom mode and like getting older,
(06:44):
that like, I would rather havefive close friends than 50
people I see.
You know, randomly through thenext month.
I mean, how do you feel aboutthat?
Or how do you feel aboutfriendships?
Yeah.
So the book that I'm writing,there's a chapter about
(07:05):
loneliness and, um, you know,kind of the framework of this
book is, is halt, right?
And halt says we're hungry,angry, lonely, and tired.
And nobody makes any, nobodymakes any good decisions when
they're hungry, angry, lonely,or tired.
So it's like an easy way to,right.
And definitely.
(07:26):
And that is not, that's not myidea.
That's been around for a reallylong time.
I learned about it, uh, when Iwent to rehab for my drinking
problem and I was like, Oh,okay, this is terrifying because
we're just, we all get thosethings all the time because
we're human, right?
Like they're unavoidable.
Um, and then I kind of set up mylife in a way that I'm like
(07:48):
paying attention to thosethings.
ahead of time.
So instead of reacting, right,like we've all been so hungry
that we get angry, right?
We get hangry.
And yeah, everybody gets hangry,right?
And so I was like, well, what ifI like eat ahead of time, like
before I get so hungry that Iturn into a jerk, right?
Like that's sort of the, theidea behind it.
(08:11):
And the chapter on lonelinessreally bummed me because it is
so detrimental to our mentalhealth, our physical health and
our emotional health when we getlonely, but, you know, in 2023,
the Surgeon General put out thisbig report that was like, hey,
(08:32):
we have a loneliness epidemic,right?
And actually, you could smoke 15cigarettes today, every single
day, and be healthier than ifyou're lonely.
Like, that's how bad, that ishow bad it is.
To be lonely.
And so I'm researching for thisbook and the American Time Use
(08:53):
Survey tracks like how much timeyou spend with various groups of
people, right?
And from the age of 24 untilretirement, friends are at the
bottom of the list.
You spend lots of time alone.
You spend time with your kidsuntil they move out, you spend
time with your spouse, you spenda lot of time with your co
workers, and you spend the leastamount of time with your
(09:15):
friends.
Okay.
Interesting.
And again, that's true from theage of 24 to retirement for the
average American.
Okay.
At the same time, your friendsdictate so much of your
personality in your life, right?
So, if you're friends withhikers, you go hiking.
If you're friends with peoplewho drink too much, you drink
(09:38):
too much.
Whatever your friends do, youkind of also do.
And so, so your friends are themost efficient relationships
that you can have.
They have the highest impact onyour life in the least amount of
time that you spend with them.
And so they're really, reallyimportant.
So important.
(09:58):
And what I started doing to takeadvantage of this is like, every
day I try to call somebody.
Just for like a 10 minute, how'sit going?
Like, just to say hello.
And man, it's like more dopaminethan like a cold plunge in
ayahuasca and like anything elseyou can imagine.
You will feel so good when youget off the phone.
(10:21):
But we don't tend to do itbecause we think that we're
going to bother, right?
Like, oh, I don't want to botherwhoever.
That's so true.
Right?
But like, when somebody callsyou, like when a friend calls
you, especially if it's out ofthe blue, especially if it's
somebody you haven't talked tofor a while, you never look at
the phone and say, Oh, what isthat asshole?
Right?
Like, you're like, Oh, sweet.
And you pick it up and you chat.
(10:43):
And then 10 minutes later, youhave a gigantic smile on your
face.
And even if you felt awful, thewhole day before that, you're,
you're like a completelydifferent person now.
And so, you know, and we allhave 10 minutes, right?
We have 10 minutes Sitting intraffic, we have 10 minutes
walking the dog, we have 10minutes cleaning up the house.
(11:06):
Like, we can find 10 minutes inthe day, if we make a point to
do it, to just like callsomeone.
Just to say hello.
Not because you need something,but just because you want to say
hello and you want to connect,right?
Right.
And, uh, and it's been awesome.
It's been so great.
It's one of the coolest things.
Oh my gosh.
Like, I'm so glad that we'rehaving this conversation.
(11:26):
Literally yesterday, Troy, letme tell you.
I'm going to my cousin's weddingin It would have already
happened by the time thisinterview airs.
But I went to go get a dress.
And as I was trying on dresses,I was like, Oh my god, this
dress looks like the one myfriend wore to my wedding.
And I was like, I haven't seenher since she moved towns.
(11:48):
And I was just like I shouldtext her.
And then, you know what?
Then I was like, I did exactlywhat you said.
I was just like, nah, she's gottwo kids.
She's probably busy.
It's like the middle of the day.
Like, I'm going to bother her.
And I'm like, I'm going to texther right after we get off this
interview and just be like, Hey,how's it going?
You know?
Um, okay.
So I'm gonna Whitney, I'm goingto push you a little bit.
(12:10):
Yes.
Don't text her.
Call her.
Okay.
I will.
Call her.
Because there's like, you know,this is like another theme in
the book that I'm writing, whichis like quick fixes are usually
just quick.
They don't fix anything, butlike we're so into quick fixes
all the time.
Right?
Like, Oh, I'm hungry.
Like, let's go through the drivethru.
Let's grab a Snickers bar.
(12:31):
Let's do it.
And like texting it or socialmedia is like the quick fix
version of friendships.
Right.
That's so true.
You're right.
Yeah.
It's like, yeah, it's like apotato chip.
Like you'll send the text andit'll feel good and it'll feel
good, but like, it really won'tbe as fulfilling.
As the phone call, which is likeeating a steak, right?
(12:53):
Like, you'll feel good afterthat.
So, yeah, carve out, even ifit's eight minutes, spend eight
minutes on the phone.
I will do that.
And then you can totally, whennext time we talk, you can
totally just be like, Did you doit?
And I'll be like, Yes, Troy, Idid.
Yeah.
And now we're like talking allthe time.
(13:14):
Yeah, I'm just gonna just do it.
And it'll happen and it'll feelsuper good.
And there are there are a couplethings.
So here's here's what I hearpeople say is like, I don't have
time.
We already talked about howthat's because you have you have
10 minutes or you have eightminutes in the day.
You just have to do it.
So to remember, you can do a youcan do a couple things.
(13:34):
You can set up like a A group inyour phone or whatever of like
people to call right and justlike scroll through your
contacts and just add them tothis group.
So then if you're like, Oh, man,I should call somebody, but I
don't know who to call that.
People say that.
Oh, I don't even know who I'dcall.
Just like, or when you'rescrolling social media, you're
like, Oh, I haven't talked tothat person a while.
(13:55):
Just put them on the list.
And then when you're like, Oh, Idon't know who to call, just
look at the list and then just,just randomly pick a name,
right?
Like somebody you haven't talkedto, just pick it.
Or they're like, Oh, it'll be soawkward.
We haven't talked in a longtime.
And so here's what you can do.
Just remember Ford, right?
Like, okay.
Fords are like generally kind oflike reliable cars, right?
(14:16):
And this is a framework toeasily just catch up with
somebody, right?
And so it's like, you just askedthem about their family, their
occupation, recreation.
And dreams.
That's good, right?
So just remember Ford and onceyou and listen, it's it's like a
snowball.
Like once you start thisconversation.
(14:37):
It won't, it won't be awkward.
It'll be awkward for 30 secondsuntil you guys actually start
talking.
And then you'll forget aboutFord altogether.
But if you walk in with a planthat says, Oh, I'm going to ask
them about their kids.
Or I'm going to ask them about,and then I'm going to ask them
like, Oh, how's work going?
I'm like, Oh, you know, have youtraveled lately?
And they're like, Oh, like, whatare you looking to accomplish
this year?
Things like that, right?
Yeah.
(14:57):
Like Ford is an easy way to getinto.
Those conversations.
So there's like really no reasonnot to just call somebody once a
day yeah, that's so true.
I mean, I shouldn't I don't evenknow why I feel like it would be
awkward like I've been friendswith her for so long.
And like, Me and you are havingthese like real conversations
(15:18):
right now for a podcast, and I'mlike, just treat it like it's a
pod, you know, like, just catchup, yeah, yeah.
Um, and so, oh, I love that.
I love that.
Okay.
Okay.
So everyone remember Holt angry,or hungry, angry, lonely, and
tired, and Ford.
(15:39):
Sorry, say that again.
What was F?
I forgot F.
Family.
Family, occupation, recreate,recreational, and dreams.
Boom.
You nailed it.
You nailed it.
A plus.
Yay.
And I will, I will put this inthe show notes.
If anyone is like me and forgetsor is like, maybe they're
driving and listening to this,I'll put everything in the show
(16:01):
notes so that it's all laid outfor people.
That's awesome.
That's perfect.
Yeah.
They're like, yeah, they're easythings.
And once you like, once youclick into them, you're like, Oh
my God, it just can becomesecond nature.
Awesome.
So like, what else?
You said that this was,loneliness was a chapter in your
book.
Um, what else does your booktouch on?
(16:24):
Yeah.
So, you know, I went through awhole lot of shit over the last
few years, right?
So I shared that I went to rehabto take care of a drinking
problem.
Right.
And then.
Like, in the process, like,here's what happens, like, when
people get sober, they like,they're like, Oh, I'm going to
start taking care of my body,right?
So I started doing that.
(16:44):
I injured my shoulder.
Um, or like re injured myshoulder, right?
And so, you know, I go to theorthopedic guy.
He takes an x ray.
He says, Oh, you know, I'm goingto need an MRI.
And I go, I'm like, yeah, I kindof figure, like, I had torn a
rotator cuff or, or whatever.
And he calls me and he's like,hey, we're, we need, we need one
(17:07):
more MRI.
I go to take it.
He's like, I'm going to mark itas an emergency so that you
could just get it done today andwe don't have to worry about
insurance.
And I'm like, okay.
They're like, listen, I don'tlove it when doctors say
emergency, but okay.
Like, we'll just go get it done.
Right.
Uh, and then he calls me at 5.
30 that night and he says,listen, man, like I am not the
doctor for you.
(17:28):
You don't need an orthopedicguy.
You need somebody who deals withrare orthopedic tumors.
And he said, I got a guy, I havetwo guys, let me, I'm going to,
I'm going to call you in themorning and let you know who to
call.
So that was it.
That was like 5.
30 at night.
And then he calls me again at 8.
(17:50):
30 the next morning.
So I'm the guy who last called.
Of the day and then his firstcall the next day and he says,
you got it.
You got to talk to this guy.
He's the he's the best for thesetypes of things.
And he's on vacation.
But I texted your images to himand he said he wants to, he
wants you to be the first guy hesees next week when he's home.
(18:11):
Oh, wow.
Holy shit, right?
Right.
And so You must have been like,racing, like, how, like, that
was so bad that this dude onvacation was like, reschedule
everything, you know?
Not only that, not only that, hesaid, and before that, cause
maybe this was like a Wednesdayor a Thursday, he's like, he
(18:31):
needs a new MRI.
Because he can't see everythinghe needs to see, and you're
going to have a biopsy rightafter that.
And, and after that appointment,like two days later, maybe, he
diagnosed me with big, scary,dangerous, rare cancers.
His words.
(18:52):
And it turns out that I had Iwas like, that's the fucking
bingo of scary stuff, right?
Right! Uh, and And so I had bonecancer and he ended up taking
out my shoulder blade.
Wow.
And so what all of this taughtme is like, we, we go through
(19:13):
life with all of these problemsthat we try to solve.
Right.
And we solve one problem andthen another one pops up and
then we solve another problemand then one is just like whack
a mole.
But what I found is like thereal issues in our lives.
Don't have solutions.
They will always be there,right?
Like we talked about tacosbefore, right?
(19:36):
Like, okay.
So, so you were hungry today.
I bet you were hungry yesterday.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I promise you will be hungrytomorrow and the day after that.
And the day after that, and theday after that, there's no salt
in like two hours, right?
It's that right?
Like it's never going away.
You'll be hungry the rest ofyour life.
(19:57):
The same thing is true for youremotions.
You will always have them.
The same thing is true for yourrelationships.
And the same thing is true foryour energy, you know, like your
sleep and your exercise.
And so instead of trying to fixall these problems, I found that
you get much better results whenyou nurture that instead, and
(20:18):
you pay attention to them alittle bit at a time.
Right.
It's like a constant work inprogress.
And like, you know, I don'tthink anybody's life is broken,
really.
They don't need to be fixed.
They just need to be nurtured.
And when I had that flip in mymind, like, it was pretty
amazing.
Like, I, I lost 60 pounds, I'm1, 303 days sober now, like, my
(20:47):
My cancer, like, is, is gone,knock on wood, like, you know, I
have a, I have a prostheticscapula and it will, you know,
it'll change my life forever,but like, like I'm, I'm alive
and good and, you know, I'm likesleeping so much better.
It's like things in my life hasjust gotten so much better when
I stopped trying to find asolution to every single problem
(21:09):
and just realized that if I takecare of those four big ones,
right, like, You can kind oforganize these problems into
four buckets because they're,um, they fit on like a two by
two matrix, right?
So they're either, um, likephysical or emotional, right?
And then they're either internalor external, right?
(21:31):
Or you can think personal orsocial, right?
And so if you think of thingsof, or issues that you face that
are internal and physical, likethat, it's hard to think of one
that's other than like hungry isthe most internal.
And physical feeling you'regoing to have.
It's like deep in your gut,right?
Okay.
And now, move over, and you haveinternal and emotional, and
(21:56):
that's anger.
Anger is kind of a stand in forthe rest of your emotions, but,
uh, it's a good one.
If you think then aboutEmotional and external or
emotional and social, that's alonely, that's your
relationship.
And then if you look at externaland physical, right?
(22:18):
That's like your, that's yourenergy.
That's like how your body'sfeeling.
That's like your sleep andexercise.
And so it took me a while tofigure it out.
But that's why HALT is sopowerful because it captures all
of the biggest problems that wehave.
And if you just figure out a wayto nurture those things, you're
going to be so much better offand you're going to get better
results.
Yeah, I love that.
(22:40):
Like, I absolutely, like, I'mlike sitting here listening to
you and I'm like, so quietbecause I'm like, keep telling
me more, Troy, like, I like,really, and in my head, I'm just
like.
In my head, I have the pictureof the Foursquare and I'm just
like, hangry, and you know,where does everything go?
Um, but that's amazing.
(23:01):
Like, you know, I'm speechless.
I don't even know what else toask.
I'm just like, yes.
Well, you know, and then I guessthe other thing is that I think
the order there matters.
I think the order there mattersbecause, you know, one of the,
one of the, one of the big likemantras when you're in the, uh,
(23:21):
recovery community is controlwhat you can control, right?
Right.
And so, you know, I was never abig breakfast guy.
Like you know, I was alwaysheavy, I was big, I was, I was
obese like my whole life and Ilike breakfast was just not my
thing.
Um, but I found that, you know,if I get some fiber and protein
in the morning, it's like thefirst thing I do, but it's also.
(23:43):
The thing that I can control themost, right?
Like, when I wake up, I can havesome fiber and protein.
And that is just like, withoutthinking, I don't have to get
too emotional about it.
I just do that one thing.
And it sets me off to have,like, a much better day, and I
find myself to be lessimpulsive, not just about what I
(24:04):
eat, but, like, everything elseI do.
I found that when I starteddoing that, I stopped doom
scrolling social media firstthing in the morning.
Uh.
For example, uh, and so that,that square is where we have the
most control.
Right?
And then when you, when you moveover to angry, now your emotions
(24:25):
get involved and you have alittle bit less control there.
Right?
Like we don't always, we, causeyou know, things trigger us or
we have emotional reactions tothings and we don't always get
to.
Pick those reactions that youknow, I keep like I could go on
for hours because I think thenuances there but generally
that's more difficult tocontrol.
(24:45):
And then when you scoot downlike people bring chaos and in
some ways that's really goodbecause it brings other ideas to
us and things like that butagain there you lose more and
more control.
Right, and so starting if youcan start with.
Eating well, then you can feelgood, and if you control your
emotions and you're kind ofcentered yourself, it'll set you
(25:07):
up to have better relationships.
And then, if you have reallygood relationships, then you
really pay attention to yourenergy, and that is the flywheel
that kind of keeps Hulk goingaround and around.
And it's, yeah, it's been lifechanging.
Okay, so, for someone who is newto this, I know that I'm gonna
pick up the phone and call myfriend after this, right, and
(25:30):
probably eat more tacos, butsomebody who's listening to this
and they're like, okay, I wantto start somewhere.
What do you suggest step one be?
Step one is pay attention towhat you eat.
Pay attention to what you eat.
Because your food and your moodare so tangled up.
(25:53):
It's like they're tangled uptighter than a kitten who's had
a ball of yarn for an hour.
Right.
Like you cannot disentanglethem, but you have more control
over what you put into yourmouth.
So start there.
And this isn't like some dietthing.
It's just paying attention towhat you eat and the results
happen from it.
You know, there's like, yeah,there will be a thousand books
(26:14):
this year telling you the nextcoolest diet.
Right.
The only thing that researchersagree on is the Western diet is
like Yeah.
Fatty fried food.
Right.
Like that's That like everybody,all researchers agree on that.
But then after that, like, yeah,you can have a healthy diet if
you're, you know, like carnivoreor vegan or whatever, what, like
(26:37):
you can make it work for you.
Right.
But just like stay on task tothings that like everyone kind
of know, like if food is healthyor not, we kind of know, but we
say like, it's not healthy, butit tastes good.
Right.
Yeah.
Okay, so those are twodifferent, those are two
different things, but we knowwhen we're getting something
that's kind of healthy, and bypaying attention and doing like
(26:58):
more of that, then you setyourself up for a better mood,
not just in the, not just in theshort term because you are doing
good things for yourself, butthen, you know, over time, you
reduce, disease, right?
It's hard to feel good if youdon't feel good.
Okay.
Yeah, that's that's true.
Yeah.
Right.
And so that's the place to startbecause it's the place where you
(27:20):
have the most control.
And, for me, like I said, forme, it was focusing on getting
protein and fiber together firstthing in the morning.
And that was super helpful.
It was that and then for me, itwas paying attention to the good
things that I get.
So I kind of, you know, like I,I cut sugar, and cut carbs,
(27:41):
right?
And people are just like, Oh,but the way that I think about
it is like, Oh man, like I eat alot of like meat and vegetables
and peanut butter.
And that's awesome.
Like those things are delicious.
Like those things are really,really good.
Right?
So instead of focusing on thingsthat I'm taking away, I focus on
the good things that I get tohave and then it doesn't feel so
(28:03):
awful.
Yeah, or overwhelming like youdon't have to go with cold
turkey, because that's gonnamake you really angry.
Yeah, right.
Which then I feel like thencauses a lot of people, no
matter what, like you're talkingabout, like food or anything is
like going to the gym or notgoing to the gym.
But like when you try to go dosomething like all in right off
(28:25):
the bat or stop cold turkey.
Then that's kind of when youthrow your body who, who's, you
know, had this routine off.
And then that's when you likestart flaring up emotions and
you're like, well, if I keepdoing this, I'm always going to
feel angry at myself ordisappointed that I didn't go to
the gym today.
And I'm like, but you went tothe gym yesterday.
(28:46):
Give yourself some grace.
You know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can do a couple things.
You can, you can definitely giveyourself a.
A little grace and just saylike, okay, then I won't miss
the next day.
Like, don't miss two in a row isa good, is a good thing.
Um, but you know, then the otherthing is like, yeah, lean into
some lessons from the, you know,the recovery community, which is
(29:07):
like, just like one day at atime.
Mm-hmm Right?
Because you could do anythingfor one day.
Right.
Right.
Yeah, it's when, like, like, ifyou talk to an addict and you
say, like, you're never gonnause this for the rest of your
life, like, I thought aboutthat, and I was like, no,
there's no possible way I couldbreathe and not, and not drink
ever again.
Right?
Like, it's so overwhelming.
(29:29):
But one day, yeah, I could doone day.
Yeah.
I'm not you just wake up and yousay.
Yeah.
And then you just wake up thenext day and you're like, okay,
well, not, not today.
Yeah.
Today's not the day.
And when you add up all thoselittle things, then all of a
sudden, you know, like peopleend up going like three decades
with it, you know?
That's great.
(29:50):
Yeah.
Like I'm, you know, kind ofnewer.
I'm like three and a half years,but.
There are people, yeah, who are,you know, three decades, and
they just do it one day at atime.
So yeah, just, and then that'smanageable.
One day is manageable.
So just do that, just do oneday, and then again.
And I also feel like bringingthis also kind of full circle to
friendship is that like, Talk toyour friends about it.
(30:13):
Like, see if anyone wants to,you know, do it with you.
Get an accountability buddy, youknow?
Yes.
Yes.
Because like you were sayingthat like, the friends you hang
out with they affect what you doand, and your activities that
you're engaged with.
So, you know, If your friendsare also on board and they want
to try or like, you know, maybeif you're trying not to drink,
(30:35):
don't go out with the friendswho do drink, that kind of
thing, you know?
Absolutely.
And, and the friends who reallycare about you will support you
even if they don't follow you,right?
Like, I have lots of, lots offriends who are still amazing
friends of mine who drink andthat's fine.
But, you know, what they do islike anytime I'm over at their
(30:56):
house, they have a birthdayparty or whatever, there's like,
There's something that's notalcohol to drink because they're
supporting me.
Right.
And so, but, yeah, you gottalike say it out loud.
You gotta tell, tell everybody.
I think a few, a few reasons forthat.
One is like, I, I tell peoplelike, there have been a hundred
(31:17):
and seventeen billion people whohave lived on this planet.
Right?
So you're not special.
Like anything that you are goingthrough, somebody else has gone
through.
And that's why it's beautiful,right?
Like you're not special, butyou're also not alone.
And that's the beautiful thing.
And so by talking about thingsthat you're struggling with or
(31:38):
things that you've gone through,you do a couple things.
One, you signal to people whoare behind you because there's
always somebody Behind you thatthey can make the next step
because you did right, right?
So there's always somebodybehind you who's looking up to
you.
But if you don't say anything,they won't know, right?
(31:59):
Like, I, I was the first personin my friend group or my
immediate group who did have todeal with addiction and that was
like, that was super hardbecause I didn't have anybody
who was like, just, just aheadof me there.
I had to go, I had to go out andfind, I had to go out and find
them.
But guess what?
But when I found them, I was sograteful.
That they talked about itbecause they said things that I
(32:20):
was like, man, I thought I wasthe only person who felt like
that.
But I thought that because Iwasn't saying anything.
So I wasn't signaling to otherpeople who were also struggling
that they were not alone, right?
And so you, you signal to peoplewho are just behind you that
it's possible to take the nextstep.
Then you signal to people whoare at your same level, like,
(32:43):
hey, we can share notes andcommiserate and like, kind of go
through this struggle together.
And then the other thing is thatthe people who are further along
than you are, like to give back.
Right.
This is true in sobriety, thisis true with professionals, this
is true for people in sports,this is true, like, they like
(33:03):
to, people generally like to behelpers and if they know where
you are then you signal to themthat they can help you.
Yeah, I mean, even in the parentcommunity there are so many,
like, moms on TikTok and, andReels just being, like, mom
hacks.
Even like people who are likeTarget hack, Costco hack, like
one of my high school lifeskills teachers, she always had
(33:25):
this phrasing, that phrase thatshe would say, keep moving
forward, but don't forget toreach back.
And then so then if everyonehelps.
Pull somebody up, then we allpull each other up at the same
time.
Exactly.
Yes.
Yeah.
I love that.
Yeah.
So I always think about thattoo.
And, you know, whenever I try tolike, I worked in the mental
(33:48):
health field for 10 years.
I just decided to retire kind ofout of it.
I retired working with clients.
I'm still doing like adminsupport on the backend, for my
previous boss.
And between learning that frommy life skills teacher and also
then taking AP psychology backin high school, I was like, I
(34:11):
want to help people.
And so, like, that's what I do.
And, like, even though I'm notquite doing that anymore, I,
like, this is why I kind of likedoing this podcast and why I
wanted to start it, was, like, Iwant to talk about stuff that
people don't talk about.
You know, like, this isn't justa business.
(34:32):
Podcasts isn't just a parentpodcast.
It's like for anyone who wantsto just come on say your chaos
or listen to people who've beenthere before and maybe that will
inspire you to reach out whichis always why I like like reach
out to our guests reach out tous, you know, and I mean, we
even have, this, like,anonymous, uh, line that they
(34:55):
can form that they can fill out,and it can be a tip, a hack, a
question, and they don't evenhave to sign their name.
Yeah, we're calling it, Sip andShare.
And they can, they can leavetheir questions or their advice
or whatever anonymous, and wewill read them out during
certain episodes.
And so this is just thepsychology part of me, and it's
(35:17):
just like, I just want to keepcreating, and I think it's so
important, platforms for peopleto talk about issues that aren't
so mainstream.
I know that a lot of things arecoming to light now, like in, in
media and in movies and, and TVshows and all that.
But we also have to rememberthat some of that stuff too,
that's like heavily filtered,right?
(35:39):
Sure.
Whereas in like, you came on andI was like, where are we going
with this?
I don't know where it goes iswhere we'll go, you know, yeah.
So I feel like you have given somuch like info and I really hope
that the listeners like takesome of this and run with it.
We're going to put everything inthe show notes and also how to
reach out as well.
(36:00):
But do you have inspirational oranything you want to tell the
listeners.
Yeah, one, one more thing toleave on that I think is pretty
good, which is the power ofwriting.
Okay, so Ethan Krauss is apsychologist in the University
of Michigan, and he has a greatbook called Chatter, right?
(36:22):
And we all have the littlechatter in our brains, right,
and his book's about that.
In the opening, he explains thatin our minds, we can say like 6,
000 words a minute, right?
It's like three State of theUnion addresses.
It's so much, and it's too muchto process, right?
(36:43):
When you speak, you're more like135.
And that's a pretty briskspeaking pace.
But, obviously, much slower than6, 000 words.
And so, there's a researcher,his name is James Pennebaker,
he's at the University of Texas,and he talks about the power of
(37:05):
transforming your thoughts tolanguage.
And that it really helps youunderstand those thoughts
better.
And I think this is why, becauseit forces you to slow down,
right?
So if you're talking at 135words a minute, if you're a
really fast typer, you know,you're like 70 words a minute,
right?
And if you're writing by hand,it's 13.
(37:29):
And so that's why writing is sopowerful to help you understand
yourself a little bit.
And so, You know, I started ajournal practice where I have
like the seven most importantthings in my life and I cycle
through them on a weekly basis,right?
So like Mondays I write aboutaffirmations, Tuesdays are
(37:52):
challenging emotions.
Wednesday is Slay the Dragon orlike big projects.
Nice.
Thursday, Thursday I read aboutmy marriage.
Friday I read about work.
Saturday is my kids.
And Sunday are aspirations.
And I just cycle through thatevery single week, right?
And so it means that the biggestaspects of my life will never go
(38:14):
a week without me thinking aboutthem or shining a light on them.
So I don't have any place forresentments to build up because
resentments are pretty awfultoo.
But by writing about them I haveto slow down my brain and then I
can really process the thought.
So it's the power of writing.
(38:35):
Is incredibly important.
Nice.
That's amazing.
I can't even tell you how manybooks I like, or journals I
filled during high school.
Like, I can probably go into myold, like, childhood bedroom and
It's a great stack of just justrandom thoughts and like
homework on the side, of themarket.
Well, cause that's the thingthat's like running through your
(38:57):
brain in high school, right?
Of course.
Yeah.
And there's are, you know, thereare like a couple of ways to do
it.
Some are just like free flow,right?
Dr.
Pennebaker's process, you know,he calls it expressive writing.
To me, when I heard him sayexpressive writing, I thought it
was more like writing poetry orstuff like that.
But really, what it is, it'slike, you know, for him, it's
like, uh, 20 minutes where youjust, like, write about, like,
(39:22):
free, like, as fast as you can,right?
As fast as you can.
If you don't know what to write,repeat what you already wrote,
right?
It's just, like, keep goinguntil you can just Let it go.
And he suggests using it forlike negative stuff to get your
negativity out.
Right.
So sometimes I do that, but I dolike to focus on positive
(39:44):
things.
I think if all we do is look atnegative stuff that we're going
to feel bad all the time.
So yeah, it's important, youknow, like There's 6, 000 words
in it that are chatteringthrough our brains, so much of
them are negative.
So I like to inject somepositivity into it too, so
there's a couple different waysto approach it, but whatever it
is, I think it's just like soimportant to change your
(40:06):
thoughts to language.
And so writing is superpowerful.
It's like the number one thing.
If I didn't do anything else formy mental health or my well
being or anything else, I would,it would be the last thing I
gave up.
Nice.
Awesome.
Okay, so two more questions foryou.
How can people connect with youand do we know when your book's
(40:30):
coming out?
Do we have a date?
Um, it will be March or April.
Oh, nice! March or April.
It's pretty, it's, it's like,heh, nice! I'm like, ooh, yeah,
I have a lot to do.
So that's, that's when it willcome out, it's called No Silver
Bullets.
With a subtitle that I'm stillworking on, but gotcha, you
(40:51):
know, yeah, the idea is likethere's not one thing that's
gonna fix you.
Right, right.
Um, and yeah, so I don't have anexact date, but March or April.
And then, uh, I would just tellpeople to go to my subject.
Okay.
Go to my sub tag.
It's called, it's called, youcan just search my name Troy
Carnes or, uh, I call it HaltLog.
(41:15):
We'll put the link in the shownotes too.
Yeah.
Everything will be in the shownotes.
The Halt, the Ford, the links.
Um, we should definitely, youknow, if you're up for it, we
should definitely come back onand kind of do an update after
your book is out.
If you'll have me, I'm happy tocome back.
Absolutely.
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, I'm so interested.
(41:36):
And then like, Because I like topost, like, what book I'm
reading to, um, on my personal,but like, now that I'm, like,
thinking about it, like, maybewe should have a book list, not
that we're a book club, but abook list of things that people
could read, and then if, youknow, when your book is
released, we can add in it.
I know it's going to be afterthis podcast is released, but
(41:57):
I'll come back and I'll add in,the links to where people can
get it.
So that no matter when peopleare like, if people are like
listening to this for the firsttime, post book or coming back
in, like, you know, refreshingthemselves on these techniques,
it will be all linked rightthere for them.
Yeah.
And they can, like, when, whenthis comes out, yeah, reach out
on Substack and send me a note.
(42:18):
And I'm happy to add you to thelist of people who will get
updates as we get closer to thebook's release.
Yeah.
I'm excited.
Like, I, I love, I'm a nerd.
I love books.
Awesome.
I have way too many books that.
Like my shelving units havebooks behind books, like there's
(42:38):
like sub layers of books.
Yeah.
Um, and then I rotate them outdepending on this season if I
want like more romance, morepsychology, then I switch them
out.
It's like how we, it's like howwe switch out like our sweaters
in the wintertime.
Yes, yes.
Yeah, exactly.
Time to get out the winterwardrobe.
I actually busted out thisChristmas Disney sweater today
(43:01):
too.
I love it.
It's time.
I love it.
My toddler has been going aroundsaying it's the first day of
Christmas for the last like,what's the day?
The fifth?
The, for the last like,Actually, I wouldn't even say
for the last five days, like,ever since, like, Thanksgiving
ended and people started puttingup Christmas, uh, decorations,
everywhere we go, she keepsgoing, First day of Christmas!
Just because, anytime she seesany kind of decorations, it's
(43:25):
always the first day ofChristmas, adorable.
I love that.
She's three.
She can finally understand thatwhat Christmas is about.
It's a cute age.
AKA presents is for in her, forher.
Yeah, I'm super excited, andyeah, thank you again for coming
on here.
This was really, like, itshocked me, and I, I love
(43:46):
reading psychology books, and Ihad never heard of Holtz before,
so I learned something, and thenthe fact that, like, you started
talking about stuff that I wasliterally going through, like,
yesterday, I feel like This waslike perfect timing as far as
we're in sync.
We're in sync.
That's perfect.
Well, thank you for having me.
(44:07):
I appreciate being able to chatwith you.
And like, it's so amazing thatyou're developing this platform
where people get to sharebecause, you know, I obviously
think that sharing is incrediblyimportant.
So I appreciate the work thatyou're putting in.
I hope to be here.
For a while on this podcast, aslong as, you know, our listeners
love us, you know, aka leavereviews, too.
(44:30):
Um, so, yeah, thank you again.
Smash the subscribe button,right?
Oh, yeah, what they say, like,make sure to like and subscribe
for more, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sweet.
Well, thank you, Troy, andeveryone else.
I will see you next week onCaffeinated Chaos.
Bye.
(44:51):
Bye.
Thank you for joining us forthis episode.
Big thank you again to our guestTroy for coming on and talking
so much with us today.
I got absolutely so much fromthis episode and I hope that you
did too.
Be sure to follow us onInstagram, follow Troy.
(45:12):
All the information again isdown below in the show notes And
don't forget, if you love thispodcast and you love this
episode, please leave us areview.
It really does help us reachmore people and we would really
appreciate hearing from you.
Alright now, I will see you allon Thursday.
Bye now!
Welcome back to CaffeinatedChaos.
Today, we are going to be joinedby our guest, Troy.
He is a father, a husband, arecovering alcoholic, and a
salesman.
He's survived cancer, he's abusiness consultant, and a
writer.
I know, so many things.
We are going to get into so muchtoday.
There are so many great thingsyou're going to get from this
(00:22):
episode, so stay tuned and let'swelcome Troy to Caffeinated
Chaos.
Welcome to the podcast, Troy.
It's so nice to have you here.
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
Whitney.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
So what should we start with?
First?
Should we start with yourchaotic moment first?
We can.
Yeah.
(00:43):
Let's just get it out of theway.
Let's just get it out of theway.
Okay.
So this is, this is like acouple of months ago and I get a
call from my kids, like summerand they're like, he's a mess.
You have to come get him.
He's good.
He's going crazy.
Like he's like just massive,massive tantrum.
Right.
And I'm like.
(01:03):
I start freaking out.
I like jumped.
In the car, because sevenminutes after they call me, I am
supposed to onboard a client fora brand new like consulting
venture that I started and like,this is the first one, right?
Like, there's like all thispressure and I'm like, Oh my
(01:25):
God, this is like I've beenworking so long to get this one
guy and then I got him and now Ihave to, like, I'm going to be
late, like, there's no way I cando this call from the car, like,
it's supposed to be on Zoom, I'mgoing to be on camera with him,
like, the whole thing, like,just a, just a disaster, right?
Oh no! And I'm just fuming,like, the whole drive, and I'm,
(01:46):
uh, you know, when you're anadult, you don't speed, you just
make good time.
So I was making really goodtime.
I was making really good timeand I get there and I like scoop
the kid out and I'm like, bringhim out.
I'm like, don't even, don'teven, someone, someone turn
around.
And then like, I like get backon.
Like, hey man, I'm sorry.
Like I was an hour late.
(02:07):
I'd be an hour late to thisthing.
And the guy was so gracious.
They're amazing.
He was like.
It's fine.
Sorry, like life happens.
I was like, Oh, and like, what areminder that like, people are
generally pretty cool, you know,and like, understand that shit
happens in life.
And it happens to everybody.
It's not like I'm the onlyperson who has chaos.
(02:30):
Like, you have this whole thing.
So people get talking aboutchaos, right?
So yes, yes.
That's like the whole thingwe're doing here is making it
more relatable.
And like, You don't have to beembarrassed if stuff goes quote
unquote wrong like it, you know,and I was, I was so embarrassed
and I was like, you know, likeyou want to nail the first one,
right?
Like, I'm so professional.
(02:50):
I'm like, good.
I'm like, well, and, and yeah,he's like, yeah, it's fine.
It's fine.
Okay, well, I feel like a lot ofour listeners can definitely
like relate to that.
Like, I know that I can.
Relate to that.
Even before this I was likedoing my part time job and I had
(03:11):
like An hour between getting offof that and meeting with you,
and I'm just like, how manytacos can I stuff in my face
before I have to go put mymakeup on and get ready?
And then I was like, two.
Two is the number, Troy.
That's, that's how many I atefor lunch.
How did you know I would ask?
I was gonna ask.
(03:31):
Yeah, two.
That's good.
Two.
I saw it in your eyes.
So, yeah.
Um, okay.
So, now that we kind of talkedabout that, why don't we
actually tell the listeners whatyou do, you know?
Now that they've, now thatthey've got their tea, we've
spilled the tea on that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, I'm, I'm a writer.
(03:51):
I'm a writer.
I have a, I have a manuscriptthat's, I'm revising it.
Deep, deep in revisions thatwe'll publish in the spring,
which is very exciting.
Uh, and then I do ghostwritingas well.
So that's like what pays thebills.
Okay.
Let me, let me ask.
I was an editor in high schooland do you, cause I don't, I
(04:14):
feel like this for me was athing.
Do you feel like it takes moretime for the revisions than the
actual writing the raw document?
Like the first time you'rewriting the words.
You know, um, yeah, it's gonnabe, it's gonna be equal parts.
It will, it will be equal partsfor me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But fair.
(04:34):
I, I was a sports editor in highschool and I like, sometimes I'm
just like, Am I saying the rightwords?
And then I was like, I'll hit itin revision.
And then I'm like sitting thereand I'm like, Rethinking
everything.
And I was like, Whitney, it'ssports.
Like people really just care.
What's the final score?
Like, do we win or do we lose?
(04:55):
Like, you know?
Yeah.
Uh, yeah, for me, well, listen,it's, it's going to end up being
equal parts because if not, yes,I mean, the revisions could be.
Never ending.
Right.
Like if you're just like drivingtowards perfectionism, then it
could never, it could never end.
Right.
Yep.
Yep.
(05:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's like sort of thething about perfectionism.
I thought about this the otherday.
And like, maybe this is a littleoff topic, but like, yeah,
chasing is, Oh, okay.
Uh, so like I had to stop there,like chasing perfectionism,
right.
It's like running on a treadmilland trying to catch yourself in
the mirror.
Right.
Oh, that's a good one.
(05:36):
Cause you never will.
You work so damn hard.
And you'll never get there,right?
You'll never get the guy in themirror, or the girl in the
mirror, or whatever, right?
Yeah, but you'll, you'll workreal hard trying.
Yeah.
So I try to, I try to thinkabout that now.
Like, hey, it's good, like,okay, it just has to be done at
some point, and then it's done,flaws and all.
I, I think right there, Troy, isour little snippet for the
(05:59):
preview of this episode.
Amazing.
I've never thought about it thatway, but that's such a good way
of looking at it.
I mean, if you ever catch theperson in the mirror, it just
means that your treadmill brokeand you ran into the mirror.
Um, which is so embarrassing,but would make us such a great
story for this podcast, too.
(06:20):
If it ever happens to me, I'llever happens.
Yeah, I'll come back.
Yeah, I'll come back.
So we are gonna talk a littlebit about friendship today, like
friendship building and havingpeople in your life that you can
actually, go to and talk to,which is actually a really great
topic.
Um, I feel like as I moved intomom mode and like getting older,
(06:44):
that like, I would rather havefive close friends than 50
people I see.
You know, randomly through thenext month.
I mean, how do you feel aboutthat?
Or how do you feel aboutfriendships?
Yeah.
So the book that I'm writing,there's a chapter about
(07:05):
loneliness and, um, you know,kind of the framework of this
book is, is halt, right?
And halt says we're hungry,angry, lonely, and tired.
And nobody makes any, nobodymakes any good decisions when
they're hungry, angry, lonely,or tired.
So it's like an easy way to,right.
And definitely.
(07:26):
And that is not, that's not myidea.
That's been around for a reallylong time.
I learned about it, uh, when Iwent to rehab for my drinking
problem and I was like, Oh,okay, this is terrifying because
we're just, we all get thosethings all the time because
we're human, right?
Like they're unavoidable.
Um, and then I kind of set up mylife in a way that I'm like
(07:48):
paying attention to thosethings.
ahead of time.
So instead of reacting, right,like we've all been so hungry
that we get angry, right?
We get hangry.
And yeah, everybody gets hangry,right?
And so I was like, well, what ifI like eat ahead of time, like
before I get so hungry that Iturn into a jerk, right?
Like that's sort of the, theidea behind it.
(08:11):
And the chapter on lonelinessreally bummed me because it is
so detrimental to our mentalhealth, our physical health and
our emotional health when we getlonely, but, you know, in 2023,
the Surgeon General put out thisbig report that was like, hey,
(08:32):
we have a loneliness epidemic,right?
And actually, you could smoke 15cigarettes today, every single
day, and be healthier than ifyou're lonely.
Like, that's how bad, that ishow bad it is.
To be lonely.
And so I'm researching for thisbook and the American Time Use
(08:53):
Survey tracks like how much timeyou spend with various groups of
people, right?
And from the age of 24 untilretirement, friends are at the
bottom of the list.
You spend lots of time alone.
You spend time with your kidsuntil they move out, you spend
time with your spouse, you spenda lot of time with your co
workers, and you spend the leastamount of time with your
(09:15):
friends.
Okay.
Interesting.
And again, that's true from theage of 24 to retirement for the
average American.
Okay.
At the same time, your friendsdictate so much of your
personality in your life, right?
So, if you're friends withhikers, you go hiking.
If you're friends with peoplewho drink too much, you drink
(09:38):
too much.
Whatever your friends do, youkind of also do.
And so, so your friends are themost efficient relationships
that you can have.
They have the highest impact onyour life in the least amount of
time that you spend with them.
And so they're really, reallyimportant.
So important.
(09:58):
And what I started doing to takeadvantage of this is like, every
day I try to call somebody.
Just for like a 10 minute, how'sit going?
Like, just to say hello.
And man, it's like more dopaminethan like a cold plunge in
ayahuasca and like anything elseyou can imagine.
You will feel so good when youget off the phone.
(10:21):
But we don't tend to do itbecause we think that we're
going to bother, right?
Like, oh, I don't want to botherwhoever.
That's so true.
Right?
But like, when somebody callsyou, like when a friend calls
you, especially if it's out ofthe blue, especially if it's
somebody you haven't talked tofor a while, you never look at
the phone and say, Oh, what isthat asshole?
Right?
Like, you're like, Oh, sweet.
And you pick it up and you chat.
(10:43):
And then 10 minutes later, youhave a gigantic smile on your
face.
And even if you felt awful, thewhole day before that, you're,
you're like a completelydifferent person now.
And so, you know, and we allhave 10 minutes, right?
We have 10 minutes Sitting intraffic, we have 10 minutes
walking the dog, we have 10minutes cleaning up the house.
(11:06):
Like, we can find 10 minutes inthe day, if we make a point to
do it, to just like callsomeone.
Just to say hello.
Not because you need something,but just because you want to say
hello and you want to connect,right?
Right.
And, uh, and it's been awesome.
It's been so great.
It's one of the coolest things.
Oh my gosh.
Like, I'm so glad that we'rehaving this conversation.
(11:26):
Literally yesterday, Troy, letme tell you.
I'm going to my cousin's weddingin It would have already
happened by the time thisinterview airs.
But I went to go get a dress.
And as I was trying on dresses,I was like, Oh my god, this
dress looks like the one myfriend wore to my wedding.
And I was like, I haven't seenher since she moved towns.
(11:48):
And I was just like I shouldtext her.
And then, you know what?
Then I was like, I did exactlywhat you said.
I was just like, nah, she's gottwo kids.
She's probably busy.
It's like the middle of the day.
Like, I'm going to bother her.
And I'm like, I'm going to texther right after we get off this
interview and just be like, Hey,how's it going?
You know?
Um, okay.
So I'm gonna Whitney, I'm goingto push you a little bit.
(12:10):
Yes.
Don't text her.
Call her.
Okay.
I will.
Call her.
Because there's like, you know,this is like another theme in
the book that I'm writing, whichis like quick fixes are usually
just quick.
They don't fix anything, butlike we're so into quick fixes
all the time.
Right?
Like, Oh, I'm hungry.
Like, let's go through the drivethru.
Let's grab a Snickers bar.
(12:31):
Let's do it.
And like texting it or socialmedia is like the quick fix
version of friendships.
Right.
That's so true.
You're right.
Yeah.
It's like, yeah, it's like apotato chip.
Like you'll send the text andit'll feel good and it'll feel
good, but like, it really won'tbe as fulfilling.
As the phone call, which is likeeating a steak, right?
(12:53):
Like, you'll feel good afterthat.
So, yeah, carve out, even ifit's eight minutes, spend eight
minutes on the phone.
I will do that.
And then you can totally, whennext time we talk, you can
totally just be like, Did you doit?
And I'll be like, Yes, Troy, Idid.
Yeah.
And now we're like talking allthe time.
(13:14):
Yeah, I'm just gonna just do it.
And it'll happen and it'll feelsuper good.
And there are there are a couplethings.
So here's here's what I hearpeople say is like, I don't have
time.
We already talked about howthat's because you have you have
10 minutes or you have eightminutes in the day.
You just have to do it.
So to remember, you can do a youcan do a couple things.
(13:34):
You can set up like a A group inyour phone or whatever of like
people to call right and justlike scroll through your
contacts and just add them tothis group.
So then if you're like, Oh, man,I should call somebody, but I
don't know who to call that.
People say that.
Oh, I don't even know who I'dcall.
Just like, or when you'rescrolling social media, you're
like, Oh, I haven't talked tothat person a while.
(13:55):
Just put them on the list.
And then when you're like, Oh, Idon't know who to call, just
look at the list and then just,just randomly pick a name,
right?
Like somebody you haven't talkedto, just pick it.
Or they're like, Oh, it'll be soawkward.
We haven't talked in a longtime.
And so here's what you can do.
Just remember Ford, right?
Like, okay.
Fords are like generally kind oflike reliable cars, right?
(14:16):
And this is a framework toeasily just catch up with
somebody, right?
And so it's like, you just askedthem about their family, their
occupation, recreation.
And dreams.
That's good, right?
So just remember Ford and onceyou and listen, it's it's like a
snowball.
Like once you start thisconversation.
(14:37):
It won't, it won't be awkward.
It'll be awkward for 30 secondsuntil you guys actually start
talking.
And then you'll forget aboutFord altogether.
But if you walk in with a planthat says, Oh, I'm going to ask
them about their kids.
Or I'm going to ask them about,and then I'm going to ask them
like, Oh, how's work going?
I'm like, Oh, you know, have youtraveled lately?
And they're like, Oh, like, whatare you looking to accomplish
this year?
Things like that, right?
Yeah.
(14:57):
Like Ford is an easy way to getinto.
Those conversations.
So there's like really no reasonnot to just call somebody once a
day yeah, that's so true.
I mean, I shouldn't I don't evenknow why I feel like it would be
awkward like I've been friendswith her for so long.
And like, Me and you are havingthese like real conversations
(15:18):
right now for a podcast, and I'mlike, just treat it like it's a
pod, you know, like, just catchup, yeah, yeah.
Um, and so, oh, I love that.
I love that.
Okay.
Okay.
So everyone remember Holt angry,or hungry, angry, lonely, and
tired, and Ford.
(15:39):
Sorry, say that again.
What was F?
I forgot F.
Family.
Family, occupation, recreate,recreational, and dreams.
Boom.
You nailed it.
You nailed it.
A plus.
Yay.
And I will, I will put this inthe show notes.
If anyone is like me and forgetsor is like, maybe they're
driving and listening to this,I'll put everything in the show
(16:01):
notes so that it's all laid outfor people.
That's awesome.
That's perfect.
Yeah.
They're like, yeah, they're easythings.
And once you like, once youclick into them, you're like, Oh
my God, it just can becomesecond nature.
Awesome.
So like, what else?
You said that this was,loneliness was a chapter in your
book.
Um, what else does your booktouch on?
(16:24):
Yeah.
So, you know, I went through awhole lot of shit over the last
few years, right?
So I shared that I went to rehabto take care of a drinking
problem.
Right.
And then.
Like, in the process, like,here's what happens, like, when
people get sober, they like,they're like, Oh, I'm going to
start taking care of my body,right?
So I started doing that.
(16:44):
I injured my shoulder.
Um, or like re injured myshoulder, right?
And so, you know, I go to theorthopedic guy.
He takes an x ray.
He says, Oh, you know, I'm goingto need an MRI.
And I go, I'm like, yeah, I kindof figure, like, I had torn a
rotator cuff or, or whatever.
And he calls me and he's like,hey, we're, we need, we need one
(17:07):
more MRI.
I go to take it.
He's like, I'm going to mark itas an emergency so that you
could just get it done today andwe don't have to worry about
insurance.
And I'm like, okay.
They're like, listen, I don'tlove it when doctors say
emergency, but okay.
Like, we'll just go get it done.
Right.
Uh, and then he calls me at 5.
30 that night and he says,listen, man, like I am not the
doctor for you.
(17:28):
You don't need an orthopedicguy.
You need somebody who deals withrare orthopedic tumors.
And he said, I got a guy, I havetwo guys, let me, I'm going to,
I'm going to call you in themorning and let you know who to
call.
So that was it.
That was like 5.
30 at night.
And then he calls me again at 8.
(17:50):
30 the next morning.
So I'm the guy who last called.
Of the day and then his firstcall the next day and he says,
you got it.
You got to talk to this guy.
He's the he's the best for thesetypes of things.
And he's on vacation.
But I texted your images to himand he said he wants to, he
wants you to be the first guy hesees next week when he's home.
(18:11):
Oh, wow.
Holy shit, right?
Right.
And so You must have been like,racing, like, how, like, that
was so bad that this dude onvacation was like, reschedule
everything, you know?
Not only that, not only that, hesaid, and before that, cause
maybe this was like a Wednesdayor a Thursday, he's like, he
(18:31):
needs a new MRI.
Because he can't see everythinghe needs to see, and you're
going to have a biopsy rightafter that.
And, and after that appointment,like two days later, maybe, he
diagnosed me with big, scary,dangerous, rare cancers.
His words.
(18:52):
And it turns out that I had Iwas like, that's the fucking
bingo of scary stuff, right?
Right! Uh, and And so I had bonecancer and he ended up taking
out my shoulder blade.
Wow.
And so what all of this taughtme is like, we, we go through
(19:13):
life with all of these problemsthat we try to solve.
Right.
And we solve one problem andthen another one pops up and
then we solve another problemand then one is just like whack
a mole.
But what I found is like thereal issues in our lives.
Don't have solutions.
They will always be there,right?
Like we talked about tacosbefore, right?
(19:36):
Like, okay.
So, so you were hungry today.
I bet you were hungry yesterday.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I promise you will be hungrytomorrow and the day after that.
And the day after that, and theday after that, there's no salt
in like two hours, right?
It's that right?
Like it's never going away.
You'll be hungry the rest ofyour life.
(19:57):
The same thing is true for youremotions.
You will always have them.
The same thing is true for yourrelationships.
And the same thing is true foryour energy, you know, like your
sleep and your exercise.
And so instead of trying to fixall these problems, I found that
you get much better results whenyou nurture that instead, and
(20:18):
you pay attention to them alittle bit at a time.
Right.
It's like a constant work inprogress.
And like, you know, I don'tthink anybody's life is broken,
really.
They don't need to be fixed.
They just need to be nurtured.
And when I had that flip in mymind, like, it was pretty
amazing.
Like, I, I lost 60 pounds, I'm1, 303 days sober now, like, my
(20:47):
My cancer, like, is, is gone,knock on wood, like, you know, I
have a, I have a prostheticscapula and it will, you know,
it'll change my life forever,but like, like I'm, I'm alive
and good and, you know, I'm likesleeping so much better.
It's like things in my life hasjust gotten so much better when
I stopped trying to find asolution to every single problem
(21:09):
and just realized that if I takecare of those four big ones,
right, like, You can kind oforganize these problems into
four buckets because they're,um, they fit on like a two by
two matrix, right?
So they're either, um, likephysical or emotional, right?
And then they're either internalor external, right?
(21:31):
Or you can think personal orsocial, right?
And so if you think of thingsof, or issues that you face that
are internal and physical, likethat, it's hard to think of one
that's other than like hungry isthe most internal.
And physical feeling you'regoing to have.
It's like deep in your gut,right?
Okay.
And now, move over, and you haveinternal and emotional, and
(21:56):
that's anger.
Anger is kind of a stand in forthe rest of your emotions, but,
uh, it's a good one.
If you think then aboutEmotional and external or
emotional and social, that's alonely, that's your
relationship.
And then if you look at externaland physical, right?
(22:18):
That's like your, that's yourenergy.
That's like how your body'sfeeling.
That's like your sleep andexercise.
And so it took me a while tofigure it out.
But that's why HALT is sopowerful because it captures all
of the biggest problems that wehave.
And if you just figure out a wayto nurture those things, you're
going to be so much better offand you're going to get better
results.
Yeah, I love that.
(22:40):
Like, I absolutely, like, I'mlike sitting here listening to
you and I'm like, so quietbecause I'm like, keep telling
me more, Troy, like, I like,really, and in my head, I'm just
like.
In my head, I have the pictureof the Foursquare and I'm just
like, hangry, and you know,where does everything go?
Um, but that's amazing.
(23:01):
Like, you know, I'm speechless.
I don't even know what else toask.
I'm just like, yes.
Well, you know, and then I guessthe other thing is that I think
the order there matters.
I think the order there mattersbecause, you know, one of the,
one of the, one of the big likemantras when you're in the, uh,
(23:21):
recovery community is controlwhat you can control, right?
Right.
And so, you know, I was never abig breakfast guy.
Like you know, I was alwaysheavy, I was big, I was, I was
obese like my whole life and Ilike breakfast was just not my
thing.
Um, but I found that, you know,if I get some fiber and protein
in the morning, it's like thefirst thing I do, but it's also.
(23:43):
The thing that I can control themost, right?
Like, when I wake up, I can havesome fiber and protein.
And that is just like, withoutthinking, I don't have to get
too emotional about it.
I just do that one thing.
And it sets me off to have,like, a much better day, and I
find myself to be lessimpulsive, not just about what I
(24:04):
eat, but, like, everything elseI do.
I found that when I starteddoing that, I stopped doom
scrolling social media firstthing in the morning.
Uh.
For example, uh, and so that,that square is where we have the
most control.
Right?
And then when you, when you moveover to angry, now your emotions
(24:25):
get involved and you have alittle bit less control there.
Right?
Like we don't always, we, causeyou know, things trigger us or
we have emotional reactions tothings and we don't always get
to.
Pick those reactions that youknow, I keep like I could go on
for hours because I think thenuances there but generally
that's more difficult tocontrol.
(24:45):
And then when you scoot downlike people bring chaos and in
some ways that's really goodbecause it brings other ideas to
us and things like that butagain there you lose more and
more control.
Right, and so starting if youcan start with.
Eating well, then you can feelgood, and if you control your
emotions and you're kind ofcentered yourself, it'll set you
(25:07):
up to have better relationships.
And then, if you have reallygood relationships, then you
really pay attention to yourenergy, and that is the flywheel
that kind of keeps Hulk goingaround and around.
And it's, yeah, it's been lifechanging.
Okay, so, for someone who is newto this, I know that I'm gonna
pick up the phone and call myfriend after this, right, and
(25:30):
probably eat more tacos, butsomebody who's listening to this
and they're like, okay, I wantto start somewhere.
What do you suggest step one be?
Step one is pay attention towhat you eat.
Pay attention to what you eat.
Because your food and your moodare so tangled up.
(25:53):
It's like they're tangled uptighter than a kitten who's had
a ball of yarn for an hour.
Right.
Like you cannot disentanglethem, but you have more control
over what you put into yourmouth.
So start there.
And this isn't like some dietthing.
It's just paying attention towhat you eat and the results
happen from it.
You know, there's like, yeah,there will be a thousand books
(26:14):
this year telling you the nextcoolest diet.
Right.
The only thing that researchersagree on is the Western diet is
like Yeah.
Fatty fried food.
Right.
Like that's That like everybody,all researchers agree on that.
But then after that, like, yeah,you can have a healthy diet if
you're, you know, like carnivoreor vegan or whatever, what, like
(26:37):
you can make it work for you.
Right.
But just like stay on task tothings that like everyone kind
of know, like if food is healthyor not, we kind of know, but we
say like, it's not healthy, butit tastes good.
Right.
Yeah.
Okay, so those are twodifferent, those are two
different things, but we knowwhen we're getting something
that's kind of healthy, and bypaying attention and doing like
(26:58):
more of that, then you setyourself up for a better mood,
not just in the, not just in theshort term because you are doing
good things for yourself, butthen, you know, over time, you
reduce, disease, right?
It's hard to feel good if youdon't feel good.
Okay.
Yeah, that's that's true.
Yeah.
Right.
And so that's the place to startbecause it's the place where you
(27:20):
have the most control.
And, for me, like I said, forme, it was focusing on getting
protein and fiber together firstthing in the morning.
And that was super helpful.
It was that and then for me, itwas paying attention to the good
things that I get.
So I kind of, you know, like I,I cut sugar, and cut carbs,
(27:41):
right?
And people are just like, Oh,but the way that I think about
it is like, Oh man, like I eat alot of like meat and vegetables
and peanut butter.
And that's awesome.
Like those things are delicious.
Like those things are really,really good.
Right?
So instead of focusing on thingsthat I'm taking away, I focus on
the good things that I get tohave and then it doesn't feel so
(28:03):
awful.
Yeah, or overwhelming like youdon't have to go with cold
turkey, because that's gonnamake you really angry.
Yeah, right.
Which then I feel like thencauses a lot of people, no
matter what, like you're talkingabout, like food or anything is
like going to the gym or notgoing to the gym.
But like when you try to go dosomething like all in right off
(28:25):
the bat or stop cold turkey.
Then that's kind of when youthrow your body who, who's, you
know, had this routine off.
And then that's when you likestart flaring up emotions and
you're like, well, if I keepdoing this, I'm always going to
feel angry at myself ordisappointed that I didn't go to
the gym today.
And I'm like, but you went tothe gym yesterday.
(28:46):
Give yourself some grace.
You know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can do a couple things.
You can, you can definitely giveyourself a.
A little grace and just saylike, okay, then I won't miss
the next day.
Like, don't miss two in a row isa good, is a good thing.
Um, but you know, then the otherthing is like, yeah, lean into
some lessons from the, you know,the recovery community, which is
(29:07):
like, just like one day at atime.
Mm-hmm Right?
Because you could do anythingfor one day.
Right.
Right.
Yeah, it's when, like, like, ifyou talk to an addict and you
say, like, you're never gonnause this for the rest of your
life, like, I thought aboutthat, and I was like, no,
there's no possible way I couldbreathe and not, and not drink
ever again.
Right?
Like, it's so overwhelming.
(29:29):
But one day, yeah, I could doone day.
Yeah.
I'm not you just wake up and yousay.
Yeah.
And then you just wake up thenext day and you're like, okay,
well, not, not today.
Yeah.
Today's not the day.
And when you add up all thoselittle things, then all of a
sudden, you know, like peopleend up going like three decades
with it, you know?
That's great.
(29:50):
Yeah.
Like I'm, you know, kind ofnewer.
I'm like three and a half years,but.
There are people, yeah, who are,you know, three decades, and
they just do it one day at atime.
So yeah, just, and then that'smanageable.
One day is manageable.
So just do that, just do oneday, and then again.
And I also feel like bringingthis also kind of full circle to
friendship is that like, Talk toyour friends about it.
(30:13):
Like, see if anyone wants to,you know, do it with you.
Get an accountability buddy, youknow?
Yes.
Yes.
Because like you were sayingthat like, the friends you hang
out with they affect what you doand, and your activities that
you're engaged with.
So, you know, If your friendsare also on board and they want
to try or like, you know, maybeif you're trying not to drink,
(30:35):
don't go out with the friendswho do drink, that kind of
thing, you know?
Absolutely.
And, and the friends who reallycare about you will support you
even if they don't follow you,right?
Like, I have lots of, lots offriends who are still amazing
friends of mine who drink andthat's fine.
But, you know, what they do islike anytime I'm over at their
(30:56):
house, they have a birthdayparty or whatever, there's like,
There's something that's notalcohol to drink because they're
supporting me.
Right.
And so, but, yeah, you gottalike say it out loud.
You gotta tell, tell everybody.
I think a few, a few reasons forthat.
One is like, I, I tell peoplelike, there have been a hundred
(31:17):
and seventeen billion people whohave lived on this planet.
Right?
So you're not special.
Like anything that you are goingthrough, somebody else has gone
through.
And that's why it's beautiful,right?
Like you're not special, butyou're also not alone.
And that's the beautiful thing.
And so by talking about thingsthat you're struggling with or
(31:38):
things that you've gone through,you do a couple things.
One, you signal to people whoare behind you because there's
always somebody Behind you thatthey can make the next step
because you did right, right?
So there's always somebodybehind you who's looking up to
you.
But if you don't say anything,they won't know, right?
(31:59):
Like, I, I was the first personin my friend group or my
immediate group who did have todeal with addiction and that was
like, that was super hardbecause I didn't have anybody
who was like, just, just aheadof me there.
I had to go, I had to go out andfind, I had to go out and find
them.
But guess what?
But when I found them, I was sograteful.
That they talked about itbecause they said things that I
(32:20):
was like, man, I thought I wasthe only person who felt like
that.
But I thought that because Iwasn't saying anything.
So I wasn't signaling to otherpeople who were also struggling
that they were not alone, right?
And so you, you signal to peoplewho are just behind you that
it's possible to take the nextstep.
Then you signal to people whoare at your same level, like,
(32:43):
hey, we can share notes andcommiserate and like, kind of go
through this struggle together.
And then the other thing is thatthe people who are further along
than you are, like to give back.
Right.
This is true in sobriety, thisis true with professionals, this
is true for people in sports,this is true, like, they like
(33:03):
to, people generally like to behelpers and if they know where
you are then you signal to themthat they can help you.
Yeah, I mean, even in the parentcommunity there are so many,
like, moms on TikTok and, andReels just being, like, mom
hacks.
Even like people who are likeTarget hack, Costco hack, like
one of my high school lifeskills teachers, she always had
(33:25):
this phrasing, that phrase thatshe would say, keep moving
forward, but don't forget toreach back.
And then so then if everyonehelps.
Pull somebody up, then we allpull each other up at the same
time.
Exactly.
Yes.
Yeah.
I love that.
Yeah.
So I always think about thattoo.
And, you know, whenever I try tolike, I worked in the mental
(33:48):
health field for 10 years.
I just decided to retire kind ofout of it.
I retired working with clients.
I'm still doing like adminsupport on the backend, for my
previous boss.
And between learning that frommy life skills teacher and also
then taking AP psychology backin high school, I was like, I
(34:11):
want to help people.
And so, like, that's what I do.
And, like, even though I'm notquite doing that anymore, I,
like, this is why I kind of likedoing this podcast and why I
wanted to start it, was, like, Iwant to talk about stuff that
people don't talk about.
You know, like, this isn't justa business.
(34:32):
Podcasts isn't just a parentpodcast.
It's like for anyone who wantsto just come on say your chaos
or listen to people who've beenthere before and maybe that will
inspire you to reach out whichis always why I like like reach
out to our guests reach out tous, you know, and I mean, we
even have, this, like,anonymous, uh, line that they
(34:55):
can form that they can fill out,and it can be a tip, a hack, a
question, and they don't evenhave to sign their name.
Yeah, we're calling it, Sip andShare.
And they can, they can leavetheir questions or their advice
or whatever anonymous, and wewill read them out during
certain episodes.
And so this is just thepsychology part of me, and it's
(35:17):
just like, I just want to keepcreating, and I think it's so
important, platforms for peopleto talk about issues that aren't
so mainstream.
I know that a lot of things arecoming to light now, like in, in
media and in movies and, and TVshows and all that.
But we also have to rememberthat some of that stuff too,
that's like heavily filtered,right?
(35:39):
Sure.
Whereas in like, you came on andI was like, where are we going
with this?
I don't know where it goes iswhere we'll go, you know, yeah.
So I feel like you have given somuch like info and I really hope
that the listeners like takesome of this and run with it.
We're going to put everything inthe show notes and also how to
reach out as well.
(36:00):
But do you have inspirational oranything you want to tell the
listeners.
Yeah, one, one more thing toleave on that I think is pretty
good, which is the power ofwriting.
Okay, so Ethan Krauss is apsychologist in the University
of Michigan, and he has a greatbook called Chatter, right?
(36:22):
And we all have the littlechatter in our brains, right,
and his book's about that.
In the opening, he explains thatin our minds, we can say like 6,
000 words a minute, right?
It's like three State of theUnion addresses.
It's so much, and it's too muchto process, right?
(36:43):
When you speak, you're more like135.
And that's a pretty briskspeaking pace.
But, obviously, much slower than6, 000 words.
And so, there's a researcher,his name is James Pennebaker,
he's at the University of Texas,and he talks about the power of
(37:05):
transforming your thoughts tolanguage.
And that it really helps youunderstand those thoughts
better.
And I think this is why, becauseit forces you to slow down,
right?
So if you're talking at 135words a minute, if you're a
really fast typer, you know,you're like 70 words a minute,
right?
And if you're writing by hand,it's 13.
(37:29):
And so that's why writing is sopowerful to help you understand
yourself a little bit.
And so, You know, I started ajournal practice where I have
like the seven most importantthings in my life and I cycle
through them on a weekly basis,right?
So like Mondays I write aboutaffirmations, Tuesdays are
(37:52):
challenging emotions.
Wednesday is Slay the Dragon orlike big projects.
Nice.
Thursday, Thursday I read aboutmy marriage.
Friday I read about work.
Saturday is my kids.
And Sunday are aspirations.
And I just cycle through thatevery single week, right?
And so it means that the biggestaspects of my life will never go
(38:14):
a week without me thinking aboutthem or shining a light on them.
So I don't have any place forresentments to build up because
resentments are pretty awfultoo.
But by writing about them I haveto slow down my brain and then I
can really process the thought.
So it's the power of writing.
(38:35):
Is incredibly important.
Nice.
That's amazing.
I can't even tell you how manybooks I like, or journals I
filled during high school.
Like, I can probably go into myold, like, childhood bedroom and
It's a great stack of just justrandom thoughts and like
homework on the side, of themarket.
Well, cause that's the thingthat's like running through your
(38:57):
brain in high school, right?
Of course.
Yeah.
And there's are, you know, thereare like a couple of ways to do
it.
Some are just like free flow,right?
Dr.
Pennebaker's process, you know,he calls it expressive writing.
To me, when I heard him sayexpressive writing, I thought it
was more like writing poetry orstuff like that.
But really, what it is, it'slike, you know, for him, it's
like, uh, 20 minutes where youjust, like, write about, like,
(39:22):
free, like, as fast as you can,right?
As fast as you can.
If you don't know what to write,repeat what you already wrote,
right?
It's just, like, keep goinguntil you can just Let it go.
And he suggests using it forlike negative stuff to get your
negativity out.
Right.
So sometimes I do that, but I dolike to focus on positive
(39:44):
things.
I think if all we do is look atnegative stuff that we're going
to feel bad all the time.
So yeah, it's important, youknow, like There's 6, 000 words
in it that are chatteringthrough our brains, so much of
them are negative.
So I like to inject somepositivity into it too, so
there's a couple different waysto approach it, but whatever it
is, I think it's just like soimportant to change your
(40:06):
thoughts to language.
And so writing is superpowerful.
It's like the number one thing.
If I didn't do anything else formy mental health or my well
being or anything else, I would,it would be the last thing I
gave up.
Nice.
Awesome.
Okay, so two more questions foryou.
How can people connect with youand do we know when your book's
(40:30):
coming out?
Do we have a date?
Um, it will be March or April.
Oh, nice! March or April.
It's pretty, it's, it's like,heh, nice! I'm like, ooh, yeah,
I have a lot to do.
So that's, that's when it willcome out, it's called No Silver
Bullets.
With a subtitle that I'm stillworking on, but gotcha, you
(40:51):
know, yeah, the idea is likethere's not one thing that's
gonna fix you.
Right, right.
Um, and yeah, so I don't have anexact date, but March or April.
And then, uh, I would just tellpeople to go to my subject.
Okay.
Go to my sub tag.
It's called, it's called, youcan just search my name Troy
Carnes or, uh, I call it HaltLog.
(41:15):
We'll put the link in the shownotes too.
Yeah.
Everything will be in the shownotes.
The Halt, the Ford, the links.
Um, we should definitely, youknow, if you're up for it, we
should definitely come back onand kind of do an update after
your book is out.
If you'll have me, I'm happy tocome back.
Absolutely.
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, I'm so interested.
(41:36):
And then like, Because I like topost, like, what book I'm
reading to, um, on my personal,but like, now that I'm, like,
thinking about it, like, maybewe should have a book list, not
that we're a book club, but abook list of things that people
could read, and then if, youknow, when your book is
released, we can add in it.
I know it's going to be afterthis podcast is released, but
(41:57):
I'll come back and I'll add in,the links to where people can
get it.
So that no matter when peopleare like, if people are like
listening to this for the firsttime, post book or coming back
in, like, you know, refreshingthemselves on these techniques,
it will be all linked rightthere for them.
Yeah.
And they can, like, when, whenthis comes out, yeah, reach out
on Substack and send me a note.
(42:18):
And I'm happy to add you to thelist of people who will get
updates as we get closer to thebook's release.
Yeah.
I'm excited.
Like, I, I love, I'm a nerd.
I love books.
Awesome.
I have way too many books that.
Like my shelving units havebooks behind books, like there's
(42:38):
like sub layers of books.
Yeah.
Um, and then I rotate them outdepending on this season if I
want like more romance, morepsychology, then I switch them
out.
It's like how we, it's like howwe switch out like our sweaters
in the wintertime.
Yes, yes.
Yeah, exactly.
Time to get out the winterwardrobe.
I actually busted out thisChristmas Disney sweater today
(43:01):
too.
I love it.
It's time.
I love it.
My toddler has been going aroundsaying it's the first day of
Christmas for the last like,what's the day?
The fifth?
The, for the last like,Actually, I wouldn't even say
for the last five days, like,ever since, like, Thanksgiving
ended and people started puttingup Christmas, uh, decorations,
everywhere we go, she keepsgoing, First day of Christmas!
Just because, anytime she seesany kind of decorations, it's
(43:25):
always the first day ofChristmas, adorable.
I love that.
She's three.
She can finally understand thatwhat Christmas is about.
It's a cute age.
AKA presents is for in her, forher.
Yeah, I'm super excited, andyeah, thank you again for coming
on here.
This was really, like, itshocked me, and I, I love
(43:46):
reading psychology books, and Ihad never heard of Holtz before,
so I learned something, and thenthe fact that, like, you started
talking about stuff that I wasliterally going through, like,
yesterday, I feel like This waslike perfect timing as far as
we're in sync.
We're in sync.
That's perfect.
Well, thank you for having me.
(44:07):
I appreciate being able to chatwith you.
And like, it's so amazing thatyou're developing this platform
where people get to sharebecause, you know, I obviously
think that sharing is incrediblyimportant.
So I appreciate the work thatyou're putting in.
I hope to be here.
For a while on this podcast, aslong as, you know, our listeners
love us, you know, aka leavereviews, too.
(44:30):
Um, so, yeah, thank you again.
Smash the subscribe button,right?
Oh, yeah, what they say, like,make sure to like and subscribe
for more, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sweet.
Well, thank you, Troy, andeveryone else.
I will see you next week onCaffeinated Chaos.
Bye.
(44:51):
Bye.
Thank you for joining us forthis episode.
Big thank you again to our guestTroy for coming on and talking
so much with us today.
I got absolutely so much fromthis episode and I hope that you
did too.
Be sure to follow us onInstagram, follow Troy.
(45:12):
All the information again isdown below in the show notes And
don't forget, if you love thispodcast and you love this
episode, please leave us areview.
It really does help us reachmore people and we would really
appreciate hearing from you.
Alright now, I will see you allon Thursday.
Bye now!
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