February 24, 2025 • 38 mins
In this episode of Caffeinated Chaos, I sit down with Ellie to talk about something every entrepreneur struggles with—asking for help. We dive into the reality of trying to do it all, why delegation is a game-changer, and how mental overload can hold us back from success. Ellie shares her insights on managing stress, closing those overwhelming "mental tabs," and embracing support to thrive in business and life.
If you’ve ever felt like you’re running on fumes but still pushing through, this episode is your reminder that you don’thave to do it alone. Grab your coffee, take a deep breath, and let’s chat about making 2025 your year of growth, balance, and support!
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
✅ Why asking for help is a strength, not a weakness
✅ How to recognize tasks that are draining your energy without real impact
✅ A simple mindset shift to manage mental clutter and avoid burnout
✅ How leaders and entrepreneurs set themselves up for success by delegating
✅ Tips for handling intrusive thoughts and teaching kids emotional awareness
Memorable Quotes:
💡 "You can do it all, but you can’t do it all well."
💡 "Close the tabs in your mind—too many open apps will drain your battery."
💡 "The best leaders aren’t afraid to ask for help."
Resources & Links:
🔗 Follow Ellie on Instagram: @ek_copywriter
🔗 Check out Ellie’s website:https://ekcopywriting.com/
Cheers! Thank you for joining us for another episode. Have a chaotic moment, question, or topic you want us to cover? Drop us a message or leave a review! If you loved this episode, share it with a friend who thrives in beautiful chaos too.
Let’s Connect:
- Connect with us via email at ccpodcast@aguonstudios.com
- Follow us on Instagram: @caffeinatedchaospodcast or @aguonstudios
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- Sip and Share: Click here to submit
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Welcome to Caffeinated Chaos,where business deals happen
between diaper changes andfriendships are fueled by
caffeine.
I'm Whitney Uggen, your host,and I'm here to talk all things
business, parenthood, and ofcourse, keeping up with the
BFFs.
Whether you're juggling theboardroom, the playroom, or just
here for some coffee fueledchaos, we've got you covered.
(00:25):
Get ready for real talk, laughs,and a whole lot of heart as we
dive into the beautiful messthat is entrepreneurship,
parenthood, and everything inbetween.
So let's embrace the chaostogether.
Caffeinated, of course.
Welcome back to CaffeinatedChaos.
Today, we have an amazing guest,Ellie Murnan.
(00:45):
She is a mom to three littleboys, and she used to say that
she moonlights as a copywriter,but she is transitioning to it
being her full time thing.
We have a great conversation fory'all because basically we are
just two moms talking about thechaotic moments of parenthood.
(01:06):
And don't worry, we will besprinkling in some copywriting
advice.
And of course, I love myactionable steps.
So Ellie will be giving heractionable steps if you are just
starting to look for acopywriter.
All right, let's dive on in.
We are here with Ellie.
This is Ellie's first time on apodcast.
(01:27):
So I'm really excited to haveyou on.
Thank you for joining us.
Indeed.
Thank you for having me.
I'm so excited.
And I know it's late viewers.
You don't know this, but Ellieis like.
I don't know, what, seveno'clock at night right now?
Seven.
So it feels like midnight.
It feels like winter.
It's snowy.
It's dark.
I can see that in the windowbehind you.
(01:48):
it's like pitch dark.
Yeah.
Into the void.
So Ellie, why don't you tell ourviewers, what you do and a
little bit about you?
Yeah, for sure.
So, primarily I, raised ourthree boys.
I stayed home with our threeboys.
And then a couple of years ago,was bored during nap time and I
was bored.
(02:08):
I missed working.
I missed kind of using my braincreatively.
So I was like, let me see what'sonline to do.
And I just sort of startedcopywriting and looking into
using my brain that way.
And, it kind of just spiraledinto a business.
Like I got a job and I was like,well, that was fun.
I'm going to just be done now.
And then.
I got another job and I waslike, Oh, okay, I guess I'll do
(02:30):
this project.
And then another one came downthe pipeline.
I was like, Oh, great.
Okay.
We'll do this one.
And it's just kind of spiraledinto like a full blown thing.
So now I am a mom moonlightingas a copywriter.
When the boys are asleep.
Nice.
Nice.
So, like, right now?
Like, if we were doing thispodcast.
Now I'm working.
I have clocked in.
(02:52):
Was the few years ago, like,during COVID, was that, or was
it like post?
It was post COVID.
I had our second kid duringCOVID.
So during COVID, we had ourfirst, who was 10 months old,
got pregnant with our second.
So during COVID, we had twounder two, and it was every bit
(03:14):
as nightmarish.
You can imagine, my husband, heat the time was working in a
manufacturing plant.
So he had to go into work and,you just didn't know at the
time.
Yeah.
Are we going to get COVID fromour clothes?
Are we going to get COVID fromwaving at each other?
And the anxiety was just somuch.
So I would say if.
(03:34):
I mean, I guess it was kind ofCOVID.
It was 2021.
It wasn't 2020.
It wasn't the dark, the yearthat was 20.
Yeah.
It wasn't the year.
I guess it was trickling intothe remnants.
We were coming out of thedarkness.
Yeah.
I actually had my first kid.
In 2021 to, we got engagedduring COVID.
(03:57):
Um, and then no, no, we actuallydidn't get, we didn't have a
COVID wedding because nowherewas book, like nowhere was
booking places.
They had to stop everything.
And then they had to first honoreveryone who had booked.
So then my husband, fiance atthe time.
Sat down with the plan.
We're like, well, we want tohave a kid by this age, you
(04:19):
know, and kid number two,hopefully by this year and it
turned into.
We wanted to get married, we gotengaged in 2020, we wanted to
get married in 21, kid in 22,and then kid in 24, when the
first kid's two.
And so, because of that, and wehad to, we couldn't get married
in the location with all ourfriends and family, right?
(04:41):
We were just like, you knowwhat?
I'm cool with having a kidwithout being married.
I was just like, yeah, for sure.
I'm going to be with you.
You're going to be with me.
This is locked down, you know?
And, and so I have my first kidwith him in 2021.
I said, that sounded weird.
We had our first kid in 2021.
I know.
It's such a, they did have ahand in it.
(05:04):
Grammar.
I really am really happy that wedecided to do it that way
because as we were, as the worldwas coming back into doing
everything in person, weactually got the chance and the
opportunity to book our weddingat Disney's Alani in Hawaii.
And me, my husband, had met atDisneyland.
(05:25):
Oh my gosh.
Oh, wait, I love that.
Yeah.
So Later that year, we got tohave, in 2022, we got married in
Disney Ilani, and they dideverything, like, all I had to
do was bring the dress, thegroom, and show up, like,
That's, that's what you want.
So we, yeah, so we packed up me,our one year old daughter at the
(05:47):
time, and 18 of our favoritepeople, right?
And we just had a 20 personwedding in the, at Disney
Alanis, and it was so great.
It, we were supposed to have asmall ceremony, which we did,
and it was perfect.
And then later that night, wewere gonna go to the Luau as a
group for, like the reception,right?
Because, you know, they're gonnafeed us, we'll have drinks,
(06:08):
right?
Yeah, for sure.
It rained.
But as it does, but because it'sDisney and you know, they want
you to have an experience,right?
So they refunded us all of our,the money that we spent for the
luau.
And they were like, but we don'twant to ruin your big day.
So then they fed us.
the food that was meant for theluau because they couldn't have
(06:28):
the luau for everyone elsebecause it was right.
Oh, oh my God.
Yeah.
So then it was best casescenario.
Yeah.
Right.
It, it was us and anotherwedding party that was there to
also get married that sameweekend.
It was just like two weddingsput together and you know, we
were like, Hey groom, like tothe other people.
Yeah.
And so we were just like inthis, like conference room, with
(06:51):
just all, everyone from thewedding, and we had our own
private feast.
And they only had like 50 peoplein their, like, ceremony.
Yeah.
So there was like less than ahundred of us, and we're just
like, ooh, Kahlua Park, forsure, load up the plane.
Yeah.
Let's go.
And then of course, and then wegot the wedding cake and it was
so nice.
They even like box it up andbring it to your hotel room and
(07:11):
put it in your fridge for youfor later.
And I was just like, yes, Yes,indeed.
And then, so yeah, so that putus back on track and we actually
just had our second daughter,Jasmine, in July, 2024.
So.
Right on schedule.
We're right on schedule, baby.
We had a plan.
We executed the plan, eventhough we had to pivot.
(07:33):
And you know, it could have beenone of those like moments where
I love to use the word likechaotic moments where I'm just
like, oh my gosh, like, are weonly going to be able to have
one kid now?
Cause I was getting older and I,there's an age difference
between me and my husband.
And I was just like, yeah, we'reeight years apart.
Same.
No, we're seven.
Oh man, so close.
(07:58):
Ellie's like my new, life twinright here.
Like, no, literally.
Very similar.
Yes.
We're actually kind of alsopolar opposites.
Well, you have three kids.
I have two, but you have boysand I have girls.
Yeah.
So it kind of works out.
We're balancing the world out.
East Coast, West Coast.
(08:19):
You go to sleep or startworking.
I have dinner, you know, yes.
Yeah.
I take.
The chaos and I, you know, it'snever going to be calm, right?
No, no, but it can be managedwith, with running a business
and parenting, you have to leaninto it.
And like, I think once youradically accept the chaos, it
(08:43):
ends up feeling in a way calmer,maybe from the outside, looking
in, it doesn't look that way,but you're just so used to it.
This is baseline.
We're fine.
Yeah.
Well, Ellie, you know what thatmeans?
Because I shared a littlechaotic moment with you.
It's time for you to share somechaos with me.
Oh, we can do chaos.
(09:04):
I mean, where do we want to go?
Do we want to go like pottytraining stories?
Is that appropriate for apodcast?
I don't know.
Do you want to go?
My daughter's potty trainingright now.
Oh my.
Okay.
Trying to.
I think hands down that's theworst part of parenting.
So far, I'm sure that opinionwill change as our kids get
older, but potty training mightbreak me overall.
(09:26):
Ugh.
Yeah.
It is.
It's.
It's so difficult.
And then when she's pottytraining and then the newborn,
the five month old is teething.
So it's like, you just can't geta break.
No.
Yes.
Yes.
Two, two ends of the system isjust, you know, I know, I know,
(09:46):
I know.
Okay.
A chaotic moment.
Maybe we won't go pottytraining.
I don't know.
Are our viewers ready for that?
Is that too much for thepodcast?
I mean, I'm down for it.
Okay, here we go.
Viewers! This is going to be apotty training thing, so skip a
couple minutes if you do notwant to hear it.
(10:09):
If you don't want to hear aboutpoop, just stop now.
Okay, so we have three boys.
There's six and under.
There's six, four, and two.
And we have a dog.
Oh, yeah.
I feel like I know where this isgoing.
Okay.
Okay.
So the chaos is all day.
(10:30):
It's all day.
And, it never stops.
And, when you put out one fire,another one pops up and
sometimes there's two going andsometimes there's one and
sometimes all three of them,everything is blowing up.
Yeah.
But you still have to parent.
You still have to do your joband you still have to potty
train.
with all the fires going.
So our youngest, we're justsoftly potty training him right
(10:52):
now.
He's two.
So he's not, he's looking at hisbrothers and he's like, I can do
that.
Um, so, so one day he did, hedid do that.
He pooped on the potty and wewere thrilled.
I was like, he was like 18months old.
I was like, Oh my God, he's aprodigy.
Wow.
Do we have a Rhodes Scholar onour hand?
(11:16):
Great.
So he has his little potty.
He went over and did it.
I like said it to him as a joke.
I was like, thanks.
Go poop on the potty.
And then I kind of walked away,not thinking of it.
He's the third.
So he's kind of walked away fromoften.
I come back and he had done it.
But as I came back, I heard likea bang in the other room,
(11:39):
followed by.
Screaming and you know, you're amom.
I feel like you can kind ofjudge.
Okay.
Is this an injured scream?
Is this a fighting scream?
Are they going to work throughthis?
I couldn't tell it was like anin between.
I was like, this is a scream Ihaven't heard before.
So I run out of the room and thetwo older boys are just being
(12:00):
two older boys.
One had fallen and the other oneis like yelling at him for
falling.
And he's yelling at him forpushing him.
And I was like, Oh, okay, thisis, you guys can figure this
out.
This is a sibling moment.
So I go back to banks on thepotty, he's up and running and I
go to the potty.
And there's nothing in thepotty.
There had been something in thepotty and there was nothing in
(12:21):
the potty.
Where'd it go?
And I was like, banks, did youflush?
And he goes, No.
And I was like, okay.
So I was walking around thehouse, like, where, where did it
go?
I, he did nothing on his hands.
I was like, where could it havegone?
(12:43):
I'm searching.
I'm searching.
And I look over and I look at mydog and she is just standing
there with the guiltiest look onher face.
Like the guiltiest look.
I think.
I think she took care of thepoop in conclusion and that's my
chaos story and it's disgustingand I can't believe I'm saying
it on national television likethis is just a rock bottom
(13:06):
moment and I overshared, but Ijust think there's nothing more
chaotic than that.
I truly nothing.
She was doing you a solid she'slike, I'll take care of that
mom.
100%.
So I looked it up and I'm like,Oh my God, my dog ate poop.
She ate human poop.
Is she going to be sick?
Is she going to like, do I needto take her to the vet?
(13:26):
Is this a chocolate grapesituation that she going to die?
No, the answer is no.
And the worst answer is thatonce they do it, once they.
We'll like continue to do it.
Like it's something that liketriggers something in their
brain.
And so it's either maternal andshe's like, these are my
(13:48):
children and I will take care ofthem.
Cause that's like what dogs dofor their puppies when they're
born or it's anxiety.
Yeah.
So like dogs, when they're, whentheir puppies are born, they'll
like, it's so it's actuallydisgusting, but like also kind
of.
No, it's disgusting.
Overall, they have the babies.
If the babies poop, they willlike clean it up.
Their little like nest area.
(14:10):
I guess it's kind of cute.
So I was like, was she trying tobe a mom or was it anxiety from
all the chaos?
It could go either way.
I don't know.
She's like, we keep the houseclean in here.
That's right.
Mother, you did not handle this.
Like you should have.
I mean, just wait for the daywhere the dog's like, no, we
take that outside.
(14:30):
That's happened.
That's happened.
Are you kidding me?
Oh my gosh.
I think all of our chaos storiesrevolve around the bathroom,
actually, if I'm being honest.
I think all of them do.
I just saw this the other day,scroll through Instagram or
whatever, and it's another videoof some baby that's blown out.
Yeah.
And people are just like, lookat this.
(14:52):
You just don't, I feel like it'sa part of parenting, you know?
It's a natural part of life.
You know, it's coming, but youjust don't know the calamity of
it until you're in it.
What's that thing?
Like everyone poops.
Like it's like a book.
Everyone poops.
(15:14):
Oh, man.
Okay.
Wow.
Okay.
So we touched on, we touched onchaotic moment.
We've obviously touched onparenting.
Like we sure have.
Okay.
So let's talk about yourcopywriting then.
So let's do it.
So you're a moonlighting as acopywriter.
Yes.
I would say maybe we were pastthe moonlighting phase so it's
(15:39):
been a couple years.
So yeah, what's your favoritepart about copywriting?
Like why copywriting?
Okay.
So why copywriting?
I didn't even know whatcopywriting was when I first
started looking for like onlinework to fill during nap time.
I actually was looking fortranslation work.
I speak Spanish.
I was a Spanish teacher.
That was like, that's what I'mgood at is languages.
(16:00):
I was like, let me look intotranslating.
And to be honest, it just seemedkind of boring.
I was like, yeah, that's fair.
And you're taking a document andyou were literally writing it
where it's very scientific andanalytical.
I am very.
Creative, right brained, want tomake something and there wasn't
(16:22):
room for that in translating.
And so I was like, I don't evenknow how I came upon
copywriting.
I think it might've beenInstagram.
I think the algorithm, Instagrammother was listening and she
delivered and it popped up like,do you love to write and do you,
have time in your schedule thatyou're trying to fill?
And I was like, Oh.
(16:43):
I sure do.
I've kept journals since I was alittle girl and I have read
them.
And now that I'm a grown up, I'mlike, wow, those are some crazy
thoughts.
But anyway, I was like, let metry some copywriting.
So, I just reached out to myfriends and family.
I was like, does anyone needlike a website written or a blog
post or emails?
Does anyone need anything?
Cause I've got free time.
(17:03):
I want to try it.
And I'll do it for free becauseI've never done it before.
And so my sister was like, yeah,I need a new website.
And I was like, okay, great.
And I wrote her website and shehad a designer make it
beautiful.
And I don't want to brag, butit's a really pretty website.
So Grace, if you're listening,we love it.
(17:24):
And it was really successful.
She got a lot of views on it andit felt good.
Like it.
It felt right.
So then from there, I just,that's how it started.
Then another friend, I was like,Oh, I could do it.
And so I charged for thatproject.
I was like, Oh, okay, thisworked.
And so now we're two years intoit.
And the jobs are flowing.
The ideas are flowing.
(17:44):
I feel like this is the year.
Last year we were just kind offeeling it out.
We were still in the beginningphase.
Like, I don't know if this is athing or not.
But, well, let's go with it.
And this year, it's a thing.
And it's really fun.
And I'm working with reallycool, creative business owners.
And I'm getting to know reallycool, creative business owners.
(18:07):
And I just feel like theinspirational juices are flowing
every day.
And so we're just off like arocket writing, creating and
strategizing every day.
And now you're here on yourfirst podcast.
And now we're here on our firstpodcast.
Is that the sign when you'reofficially on a podcast?
I feel like that's when youcheck it off.
(18:28):
Yes.
I'm glad.
Bucket list.
It really is.
This is so cool.
I, okay, I don't even rememberhow we connected.
I feel it was probably Instagramor threads.
It was either Instagram orthreads.
I can't remember either.
I feel like I saw, no, actuallyno, I a hundred percent do.
(18:50):
It was like six in the morning.
I was doing my morning scrolland coffee before the kids wake
up.
And I saw your threads postsbeing like, Hey, we're like a
branding studio.
And we're doing a podcast calledcaffeinated chaos about
parenting and running abusiness.
And I was like, Well, ain't thatspeaking to my soul.
Let me see what this is allabout.
(19:10):
And I saw the application and Iwas like, how fun.
This is cool.
Let's do it.
Yeah.
I mean, I feel like I've beenwanting to have this podcast for
so long, but because of my lastpregnancy was so bad, like
literally my housemate and myhusband.
Bought me a mic.
We got the little, like, standfor my light.
(19:33):
We got the headphones.
And they were like, go for itthis year, right?
Yes.
And I was like, cool.
But then I got really sick.
Oh no.
Did you have, like, hyperemesis?
No.
It was really weird.
During this last pregnancy, Igot some form of rare bacteria.
Oh my goodness.
(19:55):
Even the nurses and, and thepeople taking care of me in
labor and delivery, They werejust like, Well, we can only
give you the antibiotics.
through an IV drip, but you haveto come in for an hour a day for
three days straight.
And you have a toddler at home.
Oh yeah.
And I was like, they're like, weneed to get you in as soon as
possible.
(20:15):
And I was like, okay, I can cometoday.
And I was just like, my husbandlike drove back down, cause
we're in Santa Cruz and he wasworking over the hill.
And so I was like, it's like a35 minute drive.
And so he's like, okay, I'mcoming.
So he came down.
He picked up my housemate whowas working his job.
They both were just like, wehave to leave.
Like Whitney needs to go to thehospital right now.
(20:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so, I called back labordelivery.
I was like, I can be there in anhour.
And they're like, we'll have abed ready for you.
And we're going to call it upalready.
And so we get there and, youknow, my husband came with me
because he's now freaked out.
My toddler is my housemate.
And they're like, so we ran sometests and we had to run it twice
(20:58):
because I was like, I wasn'tfeeling good.
Right.
And so I went in, they checkedme out and they're like, you
probably have a bacteriainfection.
And I'll be like, okay, well,let me just take whatever I need
to take.
Right.
Which is not much when you'repregnant.
You can't take a lot of medicinewhen you're pregnant.
No, yeah.
Really, yeah.
And they're like, yeah, bacteriainfections happen all the time
with pregnancy.
I was like, yeah, yeah, I getit.
(21:19):
Because that's what happened inmy first pregnancy too.
And so I was just like, okay,cool.
Give me the pills.
Load me up.
And then they're like, okay, so,they're like, we're gonna check
some blood, blah blah blah, andthey call me, and they're like,
we had to run it twice, just tobe sure, right?
And then, they're explaining itto me, and I was just like,
wait, so what is it?
(21:39):
And they're just like, it's arare bacteria, there's very few
cases, and the last case waslike, In their feet in a guy and
they're like, Oh, they're like,we don't even know how to say
it.
Like we had to look it up.
Oh, medically say it.
It's exactly what you want tohear on the phone from your
doctor.
Like, we don't know.
(22:01):
So, uh, here we go.
So we're in there and they havethe first IV going and they're
like monitoring me.
Monitoring the baby's pulse andall that.
Yeah.
And they're like, yeah, the onlyway to give this to you is you
have to come back two more daysand sit here for an hour.
So it's best to come backexactly 24 hours later.
So then I was like, call workand had to cancel and I was
(22:22):
like, so what is it?
And then they're like, can Iwrite it down on a post it for
you?
Cause they didn't know how tosay it.
Oh my goodness.
And I was just like, oh gosh, ohgosh.
Yeah, that's basically how thatturned out and yeah, and I
wasn't able it was like onething after another and then
(22:42):
they thought they got rid of itAnd then six days after I gave
birth my body went into shockand it was resurging again And
they still don't even know how Igot it.
Right?
That's almost scarier becausethe anxiety of like, could I get
it again at any time?
Because I don't know what toavoid.
Oh my gosh.
And they were like, are you,they're like, are you
(23:03):
breastfeeding?
I was like, yes.
And they're like, okay, wellthen you're going to have to
come back for IV drips again.
And I was like, what if I, I waslike, what's the half life of
the medicine?
And they're like, you need 12hours to.
You know, and I go, okay, so ifI don't breastfeed for 24 hours,
my daughter will be fine if Igive her some formula.
We had breast milk already prepumped, right?
(23:24):
Yeah.
And so I was like, we haveenough.
I was like, just give me, wewere in the ER for like six
hours.
And I was just like, just giveme the shots.
You can pump and dump.
Yeah.
And I was just like, cool.
It's like 2 a.
m.
in the morning.
They're probably already feedingher what's in the fridge because
I've been gone for six hours.
Yeah.
And I was like, just give it tome now.
Let's just do that.
But they had to do like full onscans.
(23:45):
They had to do ultrasound.
Oh.
And then they had to like goback and do it again because
there was like, they called itanomaly.
There was anomalies in my, like,uterus, or uterus area in my
stomach.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That, of just things floatingaround.
And they were just like, And Iwas just like, what is that?
Like, Unidentified objects.
Floating objects.
(24:06):
Literally UFOs in your uterus.
Yeah.
And so I was just like, Um, do Ihave like, is those worms?
And they're like, no, there'sjust like, it's like dust
particles.
But like, not dust, you knowwhat I mean?
Yeah.
Yeah.
To them it looks like dustparticles.
Yeah.
And they're like, Uh, yeah,they're gonna probably take your
blood now.
And I was like, okay.
Okay, great! So yeah, so that,that was, crazy.
(24:30):
One thing after another.
Yeah.
I'm glad you're okay.
Yeah, they scheduled me for liketwice as many like checkups post
pregnancy after that six dayscare.
And so, you know, once wefinally got the like, Clear.
They were like, okay, what doyou wanna do?
And I was like, well spend sometime with my baby.
And then I was like, okay, I'mready to like, and start my
(24:52):
podcast.
Do something now.
Right?
Yeah.
I was like, I'm gonna start mypodcast.
And then, um, Erica, oh my gosh,I'm gonna say her last name
wrong.
Rudy.
Rodney.
She has the glass ceilings andsticky floors podcast.
She like is she's so good.
I love her Okay, and she justcame out with a book by the same
name and it's so good.
(25:13):
I have it on audio And she justreached out and I was just like
hey, I have this idea.
It was like on threads orInstagram I was like, yeah I'm
thinking about starting apodcast and I was just throwing
out into the universe and I waslike I'm gonna do it by the
beginning of next year.
Yeah, and she just came on shegoes Hey, you want to schedule a
quick chat?
Like I can tell you what youneed.
And I was like, really?
(25:34):
Yes.
And so we just, we met on zoomfor like 30 minutes and she was
really cool, super down toearth.
And she was just like, Blah,blah, blah.
Like, dude, like, here's this.
This is what I use.
Like, you know, things thatpeople are like, pay me, like,
money for.
She was just like, here you go.
And I was like, awesome.
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
(25:54):
Yeah, she was amazing.
And then so I was like, I'mgoing to go do this right now.
And I ended up getting thepodcast out on December 16th
instead of waiting for the newyear.
Yeah.
Why wait?
Yeah.
And, um, I was telling you thisright before.
So at the time of thisrecording, listeners, We are two
listens away from being at 250downloads for the first 30 days
(26:16):
of the podcast.
Um, so yeah, I'm like superexcited.
I'm like waiting for that numberto switch on my phone.
I know.
It's like Christmas morning.
I know, right?
It's so, it's like, I'm justlike the anticipation to, and
just being like, Ooh, I havetime to go get like a bottle of
champagne to pop like at 250.
And it was so cool to be like,when we reached 200, which was
(26:39):
the initial goal, and I reachedout to Erica and I was like, we
made it to 200.
And she's like, you're on fire,girl.
And I was like, I know it's notgoing viral, you know, and all
that, but not yet.
That's like 200 people I did notknow.
200 downloads of people that Ididn't know.
So the fact that it's catchingfire by itself, I'm totally fine
with that.
Oh my, you should be so proud ofyourself.
(27:02):
That's huge.
I mean, way to have the courageto put it out there.
And especially after everythingwith your pregnancy to be like,
you know what?
Now is the time and just goingfor it.
I mean, that's amazing.
The fact that I've met so manycool people like you, like we
have so much in common and like,I feel like we, we like really
gel really well.
For sure.
(27:22):
The chemistry is like flowingthrough the screen.
And listeners like Ellie and Ihave not.
Not talked outside of likeInstagram threads like posting
literally like text only I waslike It sounds like this I like
it So, yeah And then havingthese like conversations with
(27:45):
you and like our other guestswhere it's talking about stuff
that We know that we go throughit as parents, but like not a
lot of people are talking aboutit.
And then also like the stuffwith business and parents,
that's just like a whole notherstory.
And I like to.
have these kind of more down toearth conversations because I
feel like if people hear ustalking about it on a platform
(28:07):
like so public like this,they're like, yeah, let's talk
about my kid's weird poop.
I just think it's, You know, I,I think there was a time when it
was really beneficial to projectyourself and market yourself as
having everything together,motherhood or fatherhood, and
your business and everything isfine.
And we're putting out thispolished front.
(28:30):
And I think that people aretired of that.
And I think that the trend isyou got to just be real, you
know, do your job well, parentwell and put out good stuff, but
be real about it.
Because.
That's where people connect.
When people connect, people buy.
And that's what you need in thisday and age.
That's true, that's true.
(28:51):
Okay, I totally forgot to askyou.
I'm going to switch gears on youlike super fast.
Yeah, let's do it.
But I totally forgot to ask you,when we were talking about
copywriting stuff, if somebodyis new to the game, I always ask
my guests this, if someone's newto the game, what would you
suggest be first actionablesteps if they're like, whether
it's, hiring a copywriter oreven if they're not at that
(29:11):
phase where they can hire out,what do you suggest would be a
good first step for them?
Okay.
So you're talking about someonewho needs copywriting services.
Yes.
Yes.
Okay.
So here's my whole thing.
And anyone can write copy.
This is not rocket science.
Anyone can write aboutthemselves.
(29:33):
Anyone can, can write a blog oran email.
It's not rocket science, but ifyou're a business owner and a
parent, especially you can doanything, but you can't do
everything.
You can't.
That's a good one.
That's it.
you can try, but why would yousacrifice?
a plate or a ball being thrownin the air.
(29:54):
If you're putting out amazingservices, okay, so my client
that I'm working with is anorganizer right now.
And she's amazing.
And she works with clients,totally just nonjudgmental.
She gets in there.
She is hands on.
She is focused on her clientsand her clients only when she's
working.
And then she goes home and shehas two teenage daughters.
(30:15):
When is she going to have timeto write and market herself?
She's not.
And her services are amazing andthey deserve to be out there.
And if she took time to Writeher website and write her emails
and write her blogs.
That would be time away from herdaughters or time away from her
clients.
So it's got to be handed off tosomeone.
So I think the first step andit's hard to do is to ask for
(30:39):
help and narrow down on like,okay, what do I need help with
it?
Whether it's copywritingservices.
Graphics, accounting, yourbooks, identify what you need
for help and then go from there.
If you can't ask for helpbecause it's a finance thing or
a time thing, I would say figureout the things that you can do
(31:02):
well and focus on those andtable the things that you can
and accept like, Hey, this isn'tgoing to be the most perfect
Instagram host of all time, butthat's okay.
We're going to get it out there.
I think that's the biggestthing, giving yourself
compassion and.
recognizing that asking for helpis a good thing.
You make, yeah, you make such agreat point because even just
the fact of sitting yourselfdown and having that time where
(31:26):
you're just like, here iseverything that I, that needs to
be done.
And then just be like, what's myleast favorite?
Or, what's something I can passoff on?
Yeah.
And I feel like a lot of peopleI mean, I used to be this way
too.
A lot of people, their to dolist is in their head.
For sure.
Their playbook is still insidetheir head.
(31:46):
And I am a systems girl all theway through.
Like, I, right now, I'm workingpart time with my old boss.
And some of the stuff I'm doingis I'm literally writing guides
on how to do stuff.
And for them, it's like, okay,yes, I know how to do this
action and I go, cool.
But if you were to be out, couldsomebody else do that for you?
Yeah.
And they're like, oh, I wouldhave to train them.
(32:06):
And I go, but what if it's anemergency and you can't train
them?
Right.
And so like, what are you goingto do with a guidebook or a
playbook?
It's all about just be like,here's the book.
And it literally says like, openthis website.
Click.
Yes.
Click.
No.
Enter password.
You know, like, yeah.
So.
It's one of those things too,it's just like sitting down and
(32:27):
just recognizing what's on yourplate and which plate is your
least favorite, basically.
Yes, or least thing that's notgood.
That not moving the ball, farmit out could make everything
else better.
I mean, that's true.
You know, like I think sometimesyou have to talk to your ego to
be like, yeah, yes, you can doit all.
(32:48):
You can, but you can't do it allwell.
And that's the reality, youknow, and it's always okay to
ask for help.
Always, always, I feel like Ithink that the leaders in
whatever industry you're in,they're the leaders because
they're asking for help.
They are not afraid to talkabout themselves and put
themselves out there and alsorecognize this is what I'm
(33:11):
focusing on.
These are the things I need tobolster that.
This is the help I need to getthere.
I love this because like, Idon't know if you know this
about me, Ellie, but I worked inthe mental health field for like
the last 10 years.
And so I'm all about like, Yes.
I love therapy.
(33:31):
People, if they can, should goto therapy you know.
It's definitely something that'sless stigmatized these days.
But also, taking care of yourmental health and other things
that you do, as a parent, as abusiness owner.
And just kind of like, I think,I forgot who said it.
It might have been Natalie Ellisor whoever.
(33:52):
But like, close the tabs thatare in your head.
Yeah, and it's hard to do.
Yeah, it's hard to close thetabs.
Yeah.
Because like, just like ourphones, if we have too many apps
open, it's going to die faster.
All right.
It's, it's going to burn out.
It's going to shut down, andhumans are the same way too.
If there's too much going on,we're going to burn ourselves
(34:14):
out.
I joke my six year old he'slearning about his emotions.
He's starting to like, It's likehis mind is unlocking to like,
he's really recognizing this isan angry feeling this.
My mind is doing this.
He's starting to be aware ofwhat's going on in his head.
And I tell him, I'm like, youknow, you kind of have to, this
is going to sound crazy, butsometimes your mind, all the
(34:35):
tabs are open and your mind isfiring in lots of different
directions.
And you kind of have to talk toyour mind a little bit and be
like, thank you so much mind forgiving me this angry feeling.
I see you.
I'm going to, I'm going to dealwith it later, but I'm not going
to deal with it right now.
And I'm going to move on aboutthe day.
Not, not like shove it away ornot repressing it away.
(34:57):
Right.
But just recognizing it andsaying, that's so great mind.
Thank you for sharing thisintrusive thought with me.
If you're a mom, I'm sure youget them.
Yep.
Thank you so much for puttingthat crazy thought in my mind,
but I'm going to focus on thisright now.
And you have to really just kindof constantly be tuned in with
yourself.
To keep the ball rolling.
And I think if you try to ignoreit all, and because you said, I
(35:20):
can, because you say toyourself, I can do it all.
It's fine.
It's fine.
It's fine.
Everything's fine.
Eventually it's, it's not goingto be, it's going to catch up.
Awesome.
Yeah.
I love that.
So Ellie, before we startwrapping up, do you have any
final thoughts for ourlisteners, I think this is the
year for everyone.
I feel like 2024 was close toCOVID and things were starting
(35:43):
to blossom and grow, but I think2025 is the year that.
Everyone is just excited for andthere's hope and there's
vibrancy in the air.
So, my final thought is to telleveryone, all the listeners to
tap into that, ask for help whenyou need it so that you can be
part of that awesome energy.
And if the help you need ismarketing yourself and
(36:06):
copywriting services, you canreach out to me on my Instagram.
Um, Whitney, I don't know if youcan link that or yes, but the
handle somewhere.
Yeah, but that's the best placeto reach me.
I am a doom scroller till theday I die.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I'll put your Instagram downbelow and then I'll also put
(36:27):
your website.
Yes.
And my website.
Yes, for sure.
So listeners that will be downin our show notes as well.
Yay.
So, okay.
So I have to ask.
How was your first timerecording?
It was so fun.
I don't want it to end.
I feel like we're friends now.
I'm like, great, let's keep intouch.
This is awesome.
Oh, dude, we can send voicememos to each other all the time
(36:48):
now.
It'll be like our own, like,private, like, Instagram
podcast.
Like, of voice memos.
I know.
Do we start a Patreon?
I don't know.
It'll be the Ellie and Whitneyshow.
Get in for the tea.
Oh my gosh, okay.
So, thank you again, Ellie, forcoming on the show.
for having me.
I really, really appreciate youhaving, you coming in.
(37:10):
Like, I am so glad that you sentme that thread, message, and
that you slid into my DMs, andyou got this off.
Yes, algorithm.
Yes, thank you, algorithm.
You did something right.
Yes, yes, indeed.
Um, sweet.
And so, again.
Thank you for coming andeveryone else.
(37:31):
I will see you in the nextepisode.
Thank you again for listening toanother episode of Caffeine
Chaos.
Remember that if you like thisepisode, it would really mean
the world to us if you wouldleave us a review.
It really helps us get out thereand known to more people.
Make sure to hop over ontoInstagram and threads and follow
Caffeine Chaos Podcast and ifyou're up at midnight doom
(37:54):
scrolling threads, well, guesswhat?
I will see you there.
Send me a message, tag me, andyeah, let's keep the
conversation going.
Until next time friends, staycaffeinated, do your best, and
don't forget to ask for help.
Alright, I will see you all nexttime.
Love you all.
Bye!
Welcome to Caffeinated Chaos,where business deals happen
between diaper changes andfriendships are fueled by
caffeine.
I'm Whitney Uggen, your host,and I'm here to talk all things
business, parenthood, and ofcourse, keeping up with the
BFFs.
Whether you're juggling theboardroom, the playroom, or just
here for some coffee fueledchaos, we've got you covered.
(00:25):
Get ready for real talk, laughs,and a whole lot of heart as we
dive into the beautiful messthat is entrepreneurship,
parenthood, and everything inbetween.
So let's embrace the chaostogether.
Caffeinated, of course.
Welcome back to CaffeinatedChaos.
Today, we have an amazing guest,Ellie Murnan.
(00:45):
She is a mom to three littleboys, and she used to say that
she moonlights as a copywriter,but she is transitioning to it
being her full time thing.
We have a great conversation fory'all because basically we are
just two moms talking about thechaotic moments of parenthood.
(01:06):
And don't worry, we will besprinkling in some copywriting
advice.
And of course, I love myactionable steps.
So Ellie will be giving heractionable steps if you are just
starting to look for acopywriter.
All right, let's dive on in.
We are here with Ellie.
This is Ellie's first time on apodcast.
(01:27):
So I'm really excited to haveyou on.
Thank you for joining us.
Indeed.
Thank you for having me.
I'm so excited.
And I know it's late viewers.
You don't know this, but Ellieis like.
I don't know, what, seveno'clock at night right now?
Seven.
So it feels like midnight.
It feels like winter.
It's snowy.
It's dark.
I can see that in the windowbehind you.
(01:48):
it's like pitch dark.
Yeah.
Into the void.
So Ellie, why don't you tell ourviewers, what you do and a
little bit about you?
Yeah, for sure.
So, primarily I, raised ourthree boys.
I stayed home with our threeboys.
And then a couple of years ago,was bored during nap time and I
was bored.
(02:08):
I missed working.
I missed kind of using my braincreatively.
So I was like, let me see what'sonline to do.
And I just sort of startedcopywriting and looking into
using my brain that way.
And, it kind of just spiraledinto a business.
Like I got a job and I was like,well, that was fun.
I'm going to just be done now.
And then.
I got another job and I waslike, Oh, okay, I guess I'll do
(02:30):
this project.
And then another one came downthe pipeline.
I was like, Oh, great.
Okay.
We'll do this one.
And it's just kind of spiraledinto like a full blown thing.
So now I am a mom moonlightingas a copywriter.
When the boys are asleep.
Nice.
Nice.
So, like, right now?
Like, if we were doing thispodcast.
Now I'm working.
I have clocked in.
(02:52):
Was the few years ago, like,during COVID, was that, or was
it like post?
It was post COVID.
I had our second kid duringCOVID.
So during COVID, we had ourfirst, who was 10 months old,
got pregnant with our second.
So during COVID, we had twounder two, and it was every bit
(03:14):
as nightmarish.
You can imagine, my husband, heat the time was working in a
manufacturing plant.
So he had to go into work and,you just didn't know at the
time.
Yeah.
Are we going to get COVID fromour clothes?
Are we going to get COVID fromwaving at each other?
And the anxiety was just somuch.
So I would say if.
(03:34):
I mean, I guess it was kind ofCOVID.
It was 2021.
It wasn't 2020.
It wasn't the dark, the yearthat was 20.
Yeah.
It wasn't the year.
I guess it was trickling intothe remnants.
We were coming out of thedarkness.
Yeah.
I actually had my first kid.
In 2021 to, we got engagedduring COVID.
(03:57):
Um, and then no, no, we actuallydidn't get, we didn't have a
COVID wedding because nowherewas book, like nowhere was
booking places.
They had to stop everything.
And then they had to first honoreveryone who had booked.
So then my husband, fiance atthe time.
Sat down with the plan.
We're like, well, we want tohave a kid by this age, you
(04:19):
know, and kid number two,hopefully by this year and it
turned into.
We wanted to get married, we gotengaged in 2020, we wanted to
get married in 21, kid in 22,and then kid in 24, when the
first kid's two.
And so, because of that, and wehad to, we couldn't get married
in the location with all ourfriends and family, right?
(04:41):
We were just like, you knowwhat?
I'm cool with having a kidwithout being married.
I was just like, yeah, for sure.
I'm going to be with you.
You're going to be with me.
This is locked down, you know?
And, and so I have my first kidwith him in 2021.
I said, that sounded weird.
We had our first kid in 2021.
I know.
It's such a, they did have ahand in it.
(05:04):
Grammar.
I really am really happy that wedecided to do it that way
because as we were, as the worldwas coming back into doing
everything in person, weactually got the chance and the
opportunity to book our weddingat Disney's Alani in Hawaii.
And me, my husband, had met atDisneyland.
(05:25):
Oh my gosh.
Oh, wait, I love that.
Yeah.
So Later that year, we got tohave, in 2022, we got married in
Disney Ilani, and they dideverything, like, all I had to
do was bring the dress, thegroom, and show up, like,
That's, that's what you want.
So we, yeah, so we packed up me,our one year old daughter at the
(05:47):
time, and 18 of our favoritepeople, right?
And we just had a 20 personwedding in the, at Disney
Alanis, and it was so great.
It, we were supposed to have asmall ceremony, which we did,
and it was perfect.
And then later that night, wewere gonna go to the Luau as a
group for, like the reception,right?
Because, you know, they're gonnafeed us, we'll have drinks,
(06:08):
right?
Yeah, for sure.
It rained.
But as it does, but because it'sDisney and you know, they want
you to have an experience,right?
So they refunded us all of our,the money that we spent for the
luau.
And they were like, but we don'twant to ruin your big day.
So then they fed us.
the food that was meant for theluau because they couldn't have
(06:28):
the luau for everyone elsebecause it was right.
Oh, oh my God.
Yeah.
So then it was best casescenario.
Yeah.
Right.
It, it was us and anotherwedding party that was there to
also get married that sameweekend.
It was just like two weddingsput together and you know, we
were like, Hey groom, like tothe other people.
Yeah.
And so we were just like inthis, like conference room, with
(06:51):
just all, everyone from thewedding, and we had our own
private feast.
And they only had like 50 peoplein their, like, ceremony.
Yeah.
So there was like less than ahundred of us, and we're just
like, ooh, Kahlua Park, forsure, load up the plane.
Yeah.
Let's go.
And then of course, and then wegot the wedding cake and it was
so nice.
They even like box it up andbring it to your hotel room and
(07:11):
put it in your fridge for youfor later.
And I was just like, yes, Yes,indeed.
And then, so yeah, so that putus back on track and we actually
just had our second daughter,Jasmine, in July, 2024.
So.
Right on schedule.
We're right on schedule, baby.
We had a plan.
We executed the plan, eventhough we had to pivot.
(07:33):
And you know, it could have beenone of those like moments where
I love to use the word likechaotic moments where I'm just
like, oh my gosh, like, are weonly going to be able to have
one kid now?
Cause I was getting older and I,there's an age difference
between me and my husband.
And I was just like, yeah, we'reeight years apart.
Same.
No, we're seven.
Oh man, so close.
(07:58):
Ellie's like my new, life twinright here.
Like, no, literally.
Very similar.
Yes.
We're actually kind of alsopolar opposites.
Well, you have three kids.
I have two, but you have boysand I have girls.
Yeah.
So it kind of works out.
We're balancing the world out.
East Coast, West Coast.
(08:19):
You go to sleep or startworking.
I have dinner, you know, yes.
Yeah.
I take.
The chaos and I, you know, it'snever going to be calm, right?
No, no, but it can be managedwith, with running a business
and parenting, you have to leaninto it.
And like, I think once youradically accept the chaos, it
(08:43):
ends up feeling in a way calmer,maybe from the outside, looking
in, it doesn't look that way,but you're just so used to it.
This is baseline.
We're fine.
Yeah.
Well, Ellie, you know what thatmeans?
Because I shared a littlechaotic moment with you.
It's time for you to share somechaos with me.
Oh, we can do chaos.
(09:04):
I mean, where do we want to go?
Do we want to go like pottytraining stories?
Is that appropriate for apodcast?
I don't know.
Do you want to go?
My daughter's potty trainingright now.
Oh my.
Okay.
Trying to.
I think hands down that's theworst part of parenting.
So far, I'm sure that opinionwill change as our kids get
older, but potty training mightbreak me overall.
(09:26):
Ugh.
Yeah.
It is.
It's.
It's so difficult.
And then when she's pottytraining and then the newborn,
the five month old is teething.
So it's like, you just can't geta break.
No.
Yes.
Yes.
Two, two ends of the system isjust, you know, I know, I know,
(09:46):
I know.
Okay.
A chaotic moment.
Maybe we won't go pottytraining.
I don't know.
Are our viewers ready for that?
Is that too much for thepodcast?
I mean, I'm down for it.
Okay, here we go.
Viewers! This is going to be apotty training thing, so skip a
couple minutes if you do notwant to hear it.
(10:09):
If you don't want to hear aboutpoop, just stop now.
Okay, so we have three boys.
There's six and under.
There's six, four, and two.
And we have a dog.
Oh, yeah.
I feel like I know where this isgoing.
Okay.
Okay.
So the chaos is all day.
(10:30):
It's all day.
And, it never stops.
And, when you put out one fire,another one pops up and
sometimes there's two going andsometimes there's one and
sometimes all three of them,everything is blowing up.
Yeah.
But you still have to parent.
You still have to do your joband you still have to potty
train.
with all the fires going.
So our youngest, we're justsoftly potty training him right
(10:52):
now.
He's two.
So he's not, he's looking at hisbrothers and he's like, I can do
that.
Um, so, so one day he did, hedid do that.
He pooped on the potty and wewere thrilled.
I was like, he was like 18months old.
I was like, Oh my God, he's aprodigy.
Wow.
Do we have a Rhodes Scholar onour hand?
(11:16):
Great.
So he has his little potty.
He went over and did it.
I like said it to him as a joke.
I was like, thanks.
Go poop on the potty.
And then I kind of walked away,not thinking of it.
He's the third.
So he's kind of walked away fromoften.
I come back and he had done it.
But as I came back, I heard likea bang in the other room,
(11:39):
followed by.
Screaming and you know, you're amom.
I feel like you can kind ofjudge.
Okay.
Is this an injured scream?
Is this a fighting scream?
Are they going to work throughthis?
I couldn't tell it was like anin between.
I was like, this is a scream Ihaven't heard before.
So I run out of the room and thetwo older boys are just being
(12:00):
two older boys.
One had fallen and the other oneis like yelling at him for
falling.
And he's yelling at him forpushing him.
And I was like, Oh, okay, thisis, you guys can figure this
out.
This is a sibling moment.
So I go back to banks on thepotty, he's up and running and I
go to the potty.
And there's nothing in thepotty.
There had been something in thepotty and there was nothing in
(12:21):
the potty.
Where'd it go?
And I was like, banks, did youflush?
And he goes, No.
And I was like, okay.
So I was walking around thehouse, like, where, where did it
go?
I, he did nothing on his hands.
I was like, where could it havegone?
(12:43):
I'm searching.
I'm searching.
And I look over and I look at mydog and she is just standing
there with the guiltiest look onher face.
Like the guiltiest look.
I think.
I think she took care of thepoop in conclusion and that's my
chaos story and it's disgustingand I can't believe I'm saying
it on national television likethis is just a rock bottom
(13:06):
moment and I overshared, but Ijust think there's nothing more
chaotic than that.
I truly nothing.
She was doing you a solid she'slike, I'll take care of that
mom.
100%.
So I looked it up and I'm like,Oh my God, my dog ate poop.
She ate human poop.
Is she going to be sick?
Is she going to like, do I needto take her to the vet?
(13:26):
Is this a chocolate grapesituation that she going to die?
No, the answer is no.
And the worst answer is thatonce they do it, once they.
We'll like continue to do it.
Like it's something that liketriggers something in their
brain.
And so it's either maternal andshe's like, these are my
(13:48):
children and I will take care ofthem.
Cause that's like what dogs dofor their puppies when they're
born or it's anxiety.
Yeah.
So like dogs, when they're, whentheir puppies are born, they'll
like, it's so it's actuallydisgusting, but like also kind
of.
No, it's disgusting.
Overall, they have the babies.
If the babies poop, they willlike clean it up.
Their little like nest area.
(14:10):
I guess it's kind of cute.
So I was like, was she trying tobe a mom or was it anxiety from
all the chaos?
It could go either way.
I don't know.
She's like, we keep the houseclean in here.
That's right.
Mother, you did not handle this.
Like you should have.
I mean, just wait for the daywhere the dog's like, no, we
take that outside.
(14:30):
That's happened.
That's happened.
Are you kidding me?
Oh my gosh.
I think all of our chaos storiesrevolve around the bathroom,
actually, if I'm being honest.
I think all of them do.
I just saw this the other day,scroll through Instagram or
whatever, and it's another videoof some baby that's blown out.
Yeah.
And people are just like, lookat this.
(14:52):
You just don't, I feel like it'sa part of parenting, you know?
It's a natural part of life.
You know, it's coming, but youjust don't know the calamity of
it until you're in it.
What's that thing?
Like everyone poops.
Like it's like a book.
Everyone poops.
(15:14):
Oh, man.
Okay.
Wow.
Okay.
So we touched on, we touched onchaotic moment.
We've obviously touched onparenting.
Like we sure have.
Okay.
So let's talk about yourcopywriting then.
So let's do it.
So you're a moonlighting as acopywriter.
Yes.
I would say maybe we were pastthe moonlighting phase so it's
(15:39):
been a couple years.
So yeah, what's your favoritepart about copywriting?
Like why copywriting?
Okay.
So why copywriting?
I didn't even know whatcopywriting was when I first
started looking for like onlinework to fill during nap time.
I actually was looking fortranslation work.
I speak Spanish.
I was a Spanish teacher.
That was like, that's what I'mgood at is languages.
(16:00):
I was like, let me look intotranslating.
And to be honest, it just seemedkind of boring.
I was like, yeah, that's fair.
And you're taking a document andyou were literally writing it
where it's very scientific andanalytical.
I am very.
Creative, right brained, want tomake something and there wasn't
(16:22):
room for that in translating.
And so I was like, I don't evenknow how I came upon
copywriting.
I think it might've beenInstagram.
I think the algorithm, Instagrammother was listening and she
delivered and it popped up like,do you love to write and do you,
have time in your schedule thatyou're trying to fill?
And I was like, Oh.
(16:43):
I sure do.
I've kept journals since I was alittle girl and I have read
them.
And now that I'm a grown up, I'mlike, wow, those are some crazy
thoughts.
But anyway, I was like, let metry some copywriting.
So, I just reached out to myfriends and family.
I was like, does anyone needlike a website written or a blog
post or emails?
Does anyone need anything?
Cause I've got free time.
(17:03):
I want to try it.
And I'll do it for free becauseI've never done it before.
And so my sister was like, yeah,I need a new website.
And I was like, okay, great.
And I wrote her website and shehad a designer make it
beautiful.
And I don't want to brag, butit's a really pretty website.
So Grace, if you're listening,we love it.
(17:24):
And it was really successful.
She got a lot of views on it andit felt good.
Like it.
It felt right.
So then from there, I just,that's how it started.
Then another friend, I was like,Oh, I could do it.
And so I charged for thatproject.
I was like, Oh, okay, thisworked.
And so now we're two years intoit.
And the jobs are flowing.
The ideas are flowing.
(17:44):
I feel like this is the year.
Last year we were just kind offeeling it out.
We were still in the beginningphase.
Like, I don't know if this is athing or not.
But, well, let's go with it.
And this year, it's a thing.
And it's really fun.
And I'm working with reallycool, creative business owners.
And I'm getting to know reallycool, creative business owners.
(18:07):
And I just feel like theinspirational juices are flowing
every day.
And so we're just off like arocket writing, creating and
strategizing every day.
And now you're here on yourfirst podcast.
And now we're here on our firstpodcast.
Is that the sign when you'reofficially on a podcast?
I feel like that's when youcheck it off.
(18:28):
Yes.
I'm glad.
Bucket list.
It really is.
This is so cool.
I, okay, I don't even rememberhow we connected.
I feel it was probably Instagramor threads.
It was either Instagram orthreads.
I can't remember either.
I feel like I saw, no, actuallyno, I a hundred percent do.
(18:50):
It was like six in the morning.
I was doing my morning scrolland coffee before the kids wake
up.
And I saw your threads postsbeing like, Hey, we're like a
branding studio.
And we're doing a podcast calledcaffeinated chaos about
parenting and running abusiness.
And I was like, Well, ain't thatspeaking to my soul.
Let me see what this is allabout.
(19:10):
And I saw the application and Iwas like, how fun.
This is cool.
Let's do it.
Yeah.
I mean, I feel like I've beenwanting to have this podcast for
so long, but because of my lastpregnancy was so bad, like
literally my housemate and myhusband.
Bought me a mic.
We got the little, like, standfor my light.
(19:33):
We got the headphones.
And they were like, go for itthis year, right?
Yes.
And I was like, cool.
But then I got really sick.
Oh no.
Did you have, like, hyperemesis?
No.
It was really weird.
During this last pregnancy, Igot some form of rare bacteria.
Oh my goodness.
(19:55):
Even the nurses and, and thepeople taking care of me in
labor and delivery, They werejust like, Well, we can only
give you the antibiotics.
through an IV drip, but you haveto come in for an hour a day for
three days straight.
And you have a toddler at home.
Oh yeah.
And I was like, they're like, weneed to get you in as soon as
possible.
(20:15):
And I was like, okay, I can cometoday.
And I was just like, my husbandlike drove back down, cause
we're in Santa Cruz and he wasworking over the hill.
And so I was like, it's like a35 minute drive.
And so he's like, okay, I'mcoming.
So he came down.
He picked up my housemate whowas working his job.
They both were just like, wehave to leave.
Like Whitney needs to go to thehospital right now.
(20:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so, I called back labordelivery.
I was like, I can be there in anhour.
And they're like, we'll have abed ready for you.
And we're going to call it upalready.
And so we get there and, youknow, my husband came with me
because he's now freaked out.
My toddler is my housemate.
And they're like, so we ran sometests and we had to run it twice
(20:58):
because I was like, I wasn'tfeeling good.
Right.
And so I went in, they checkedme out and they're like, you
probably have a bacteriainfection.
And I'll be like, okay, well,let me just take whatever I need
to take.
Right.
Which is not much when you'repregnant.
You can't take a lot of medicinewhen you're pregnant.
No, yeah.
Really, yeah.
And they're like, yeah, bacteriainfections happen all the time
with pregnancy.
I was like, yeah, yeah, I getit.
(21:19):
Because that's what happened inmy first pregnancy too.
And so I was just like, okay,cool.
Give me the pills.
Load me up.
And then they're like, okay, so,they're like, we're gonna check
some blood, blah blah blah, andthey call me, and they're like,
we had to run it twice, just tobe sure, right?
And then, they're explaining itto me, and I was just like,
wait, so what is it?
(21:39):
And they're just like, it's arare bacteria, there's very few
cases, and the last case waslike, In their feet in a guy and
they're like, Oh, they're like,we don't even know how to say
it.
Like we had to look it up.
Oh, medically say it.
It's exactly what you want tohear on the phone from your
doctor.
Like, we don't know.
(22:01):
So, uh, here we go.
So we're in there and they havethe first IV going and they're
like monitoring me.
Monitoring the baby's pulse andall that.
Yeah.
And they're like, yeah, the onlyway to give this to you is you
have to come back two more daysand sit here for an hour.
So it's best to come backexactly 24 hours later.
So then I was like, call workand had to cancel and I was
(22:22):
like, so what is it?
And then they're like, can Iwrite it down on a post it for
you?
Cause they didn't know how tosay it.
Oh my goodness.
And I was just like, oh gosh, ohgosh.
Yeah, that's basically how thatturned out and yeah, and I
wasn't able it was like onething after another and then
(22:42):
they thought they got rid of itAnd then six days after I gave
birth my body went into shockand it was resurging again And
they still don't even know how Igot it.
Right?
That's almost scarier becausethe anxiety of like, could I get
it again at any time?
Because I don't know what toavoid.
Oh my gosh.
And they were like, are you,they're like, are you
(23:03):
breastfeeding?
I was like, yes.
And they're like, okay, wellthen you're going to have to
come back for IV drips again.
And I was like, what if I, I waslike, what's the half life of
the medicine?
And they're like, you need 12hours to.
You know, and I go, okay, so ifI don't breastfeed for 24 hours,
my daughter will be fine if Igive her some formula.
We had breast milk already prepumped, right?
(23:24):
Yeah.
And so I was like, we haveenough.
I was like, just give me, wewere in the ER for like six
hours.
And I was just like, just giveme the shots.
You can pump and dump.
Yeah.
And I was just like, cool.
It's like 2 a.
m.
in the morning.
They're probably already feedingher what's in the fridge because
I've been gone for six hours.
Yeah.
And I was like, just give it tome now.
Let's just do that.
But they had to do like full onscans.
(23:45):
They had to do ultrasound.
Oh.
And then they had to like goback and do it again because
there was like, they called itanomaly.
There was anomalies in my, like,uterus, or uterus area in my
stomach.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That, of just things floatingaround.
And they were just like, And Iwas just like, what is that?
Like, Unidentified objects.
Floating objects.
(24:06):
Literally UFOs in your uterus.
Yeah.
And so I was just like, Um, do Ihave like, is those worms?
And they're like, no, there'sjust like, it's like dust
particles.
But like, not dust, you knowwhat I mean?
Yeah.
Yeah.
To them it looks like dustparticles.
Yeah.
And they're like, Uh, yeah,they're gonna probably take your
blood now.
And I was like, okay.
Okay, great! So yeah, so that,that was, crazy.
(24:30):
One thing after another.
Yeah.
I'm glad you're okay.
Yeah, they scheduled me for liketwice as many like checkups post
pregnancy after that six dayscare.
And so, you know, once wefinally got the like, Clear.
They were like, okay, what doyou wanna do?
And I was like, well spend sometime with my baby.
And then I was like, okay, I'mready to like, and start my
(24:52):
podcast.
Do something now.
Right?
Yeah.
I was like, I'm gonna start mypodcast.
And then, um, Erica, oh my gosh,I'm gonna say her last name
wrong.
Rudy.
Rodney.
She has the glass ceilings andsticky floors podcast.
She like is she's so good.
I love her Okay, and she justcame out with a book by the same
name and it's so good.
(25:13):
I have it on audio And she justreached out and I was just like
hey, I have this idea.
It was like on threads orInstagram I was like, yeah I'm
thinking about starting apodcast and I was just throwing
out into the universe and I waslike I'm gonna do it by the
beginning of next year.
Yeah, and she just came on shegoes Hey, you want to schedule a
quick chat?
Like I can tell you what youneed.
And I was like, really?
(25:34):
Yes.
And so we just, we met on zoomfor like 30 minutes and she was
really cool, super down toearth.
And she was just like, Blah,blah, blah.
Like, dude, like, here's this.
This is what I use.
Like, you know, things thatpeople are like, pay me, like,
money for.
She was just like, here you go.
And I was like, awesome.
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
(25:54):
Yeah, she was amazing.
And then so I was like, I'mgoing to go do this right now.
And I ended up getting thepodcast out on December 16th
instead of waiting for the newyear.
Yeah.
Why wait?
Yeah.
And, um, I was telling you thisright before.
So at the time of thisrecording, listeners, We are two
listens away from being at 250downloads for the first 30 days
(26:16):
of the podcast.
Um, so yeah, I'm like superexcited.
I'm like waiting for that numberto switch on my phone.
I know.
It's like Christmas morning.
I know, right?
It's so, it's like, I'm justlike the anticipation to, and
just being like, Ooh, I havetime to go get like a bottle of
champagne to pop like at 250.
And it was so cool to be like,when we reached 200, which was
(26:39):
the initial goal, and I reachedout to Erica and I was like, we
made it to 200.
And she's like, you're on fire,girl.
And I was like, I know it's notgoing viral, you know, and all
that, but not yet.
That's like 200 people I did notknow.
200 downloads of people that Ididn't know.
So the fact that it's catchingfire by itself, I'm totally fine
with that.
Oh my, you should be so proud ofyourself.
(27:02):
That's huge.
I mean, way to have the courageto put it out there.
And especially after everythingwith your pregnancy to be like,
you know what?
Now is the time and just goingfor it.
I mean, that's amazing.
The fact that I've met so manycool people like you, like we
have so much in common and like,I feel like we, we like really
gel really well.
For sure.
(27:22):
The chemistry is like flowingthrough the screen.
And listeners like Ellie and Ihave not.
Not talked outside of likeInstagram threads like posting
literally like text only I waslike It sounds like this I like
it So, yeah And then havingthese like conversations with
(27:45):
you and like our other guestswhere it's talking about stuff
that We know that we go throughit as parents, but like not a
lot of people are talking aboutit.
And then also like the stuffwith business and parents,
that's just like a whole notherstory.
And I like to.
have these kind of more down toearth conversations because I
feel like if people hear ustalking about it on a platform
(28:07):
like so public like this,they're like, yeah, let's talk
about my kid's weird poop.
I just think it's, You know, I,I think there was a time when it
was really beneficial to projectyourself and market yourself as
having everything together,motherhood or fatherhood, and
your business and everything isfine.
And we're putting out thispolished front.
(28:30):
And I think that people aretired of that.
And I think that the trend isyou got to just be real, you
know, do your job well, parentwell and put out good stuff, but
be real about it.
Because.
That's where people connect.
When people connect, people buy.
And that's what you need in thisday and age.
That's true, that's true.
(28:51):
Okay, I totally forgot to askyou.
I'm going to switch gears on youlike super fast.
Yeah, let's do it.
But I totally forgot to ask you,when we were talking about
copywriting stuff, if somebodyis new to the game, I always ask
my guests this, if someone's newto the game, what would you
suggest be first actionablesteps if they're like, whether
it's, hiring a copywriter oreven if they're not at that
(29:11):
phase where they can hire out,what do you suggest would be a
good first step for them?
Okay.
So you're talking about someonewho needs copywriting services.
Yes.
Yes.
Okay.
So here's my whole thing.
And anyone can write copy.
This is not rocket science.
Anyone can write aboutthemselves.
(29:33):
Anyone can, can write a blog oran email.
It's not rocket science, but ifyou're a business owner and a
parent, especially you can doanything, but you can't do
everything.
You can't.
That's a good one.
That's it.
you can try, but why would yousacrifice?
a plate or a ball being thrownin the air.
(29:54):
If you're putting out amazingservices, okay, so my client
that I'm working with is anorganizer right now.
And she's amazing.
And she works with clients,totally just nonjudgmental.
She gets in there.
She is hands on.
She is focused on her clientsand her clients only when she's
working.
And then she goes home and shehas two teenage daughters.
(30:15):
When is she going to have timeto write and market herself?
She's not.
And her services are amazing andthey deserve to be out there.
And if she took time to Writeher website and write her emails
and write her blogs.
That would be time away from herdaughters or time away from her
clients.
So it's got to be handed off tosomeone.
So I think the first step andit's hard to do is to ask for
(30:39):
help and narrow down on like,okay, what do I need help with
it?
Whether it's copywritingservices.
Graphics, accounting, yourbooks, identify what you need
for help and then go from there.
If you can't ask for helpbecause it's a finance thing or
a time thing, I would say figureout the things that you can do
(31:02):
well and focus on those andtable the things that you can
and accept like, Hey, this isn'tgoing to be the most perfect
Instagram host of all time, butthat's okay.
We're going to get it out there.
I think that's the biggestthing, giving yourself
compassion and.
recognizing that asking for helpis a good thing.
You make, yeah, you make such agreat point because even just
the fact of sitting yourselfdown and having that time where
(31:26):
you're just like, here iseverything that I, that needs to
be done.
And then just be like, what's myleast favorite?
Or, what's something I can passoff on?
Yeah.
And I feel like a lot of peopleI mean, I used to be this way
too.
A lot of people, their to dolist is in their head.
For sure.
Their playbook is still insidetheir head.
(31:46):
And I am a systems girl all theway through.
Like, I, right now, I'm workingpart time with my old boss.
And some of the stuff I'm doingis I'm literally writing guides
on how to do stuff.
And for them, it's like, okay,yes, I know how to do this
action and I go, cool.
But if you were to be out, couldsomebody else do that for you?
Yeah.
And they're like, oh, I wouldhave to train them.
(32:06):
And I go, but what if it's anemergency and you can't train
them?
Right.
And so like, what are you goingto do with a guidebook or a
playbook?
It's all about just be like,here's the book.
And it literally says like, openthis website.
Click.
Yes.
Click.
No.
Enter password.
You know, like, yeah.
So.
It's one of those things too,it's just like sitting down and
(32:27):
just recognizing what's on yourplate and which plate is your
least favorite, basically.
Yes, or least thing that's notgood.
That not moving the ball, farmit out could make everything
else better.
I mean, that's true.
You know, like I think sometimesyou have to talk to your ego to
be like, yeah, yes, you can doit all.
(32:48):
You can, but you can't do it allwell.
And that's the reality, youknow, and it's always okay to
ask for help.
Always, always, I feel like Ithink that the leaders in
whatever industry you're in,they're the leaders because
they're asking for help.
They are not afraid to talkabout themselves and put
themselves out there and alsorecognize this is what I'm
(33:11):
focusing on.
These are the things I need tobolster that.
This is the help I need to getthere.
I love this because like, Idon't know if you know this
about me, Ellie, but I worked inthe mental health field for like
the last 10 years.
And so I'm all about like, Yes.
I love therapy.
(33:31):
People, if they can, should goto therapy you know.
It's definitely something that'sless stigmatized these days.
But also, taking care of yourmental health and other things
that you do, as a parent, as abusiness owner.
And just kind of like, I think,I forgot who said it.
It might have been Natalie Ellisor whoever.
(33:52):
But like, close the tabs thatare in your head.
Yeah, and it's hard to do.
Yeah, it's hard to close thetabs.
Yeah.
Because like, just like ourphones, if we have too many apps
open, it's going to die faster.
All right.
It's, it's going to burn out.
It's going to shut down, andhumans are the same way too.
If there's too much going on,we're going to burn ourselves
(34:14):
out.
I joke my six year old he'slearning about his emotions.
He's starting to like, It's likehis mind is unlocking to like,
he's really recognizing this isan angry feeling this.
My mind is doing this.
He's starting to be aware ofwhat's going on in his head.
And I tell him, I'm like, youknow, you kind of have to, this
is going to sound crazy, butsometimes your mind, all the
(34:35):
tabs are open and your mind isfiring in lots of different
directions.
And you kind of have to talk toyour mind a little bit and be
like, thank you so much mind forgiving me this angry feeling.
I see you.
I'm going to, I'm going to dealwith it later, but I'm not going
to deal with it right now.
And I'm going to move on aboutthe day.
Not, not like shove it away ornot repressing it away.
(34:57):
Right.
But just recognizing it andsaying, that's so great mind.
Thank you for sharing thisintrusive thought with me.
If you're a mom, I'm sure youget them.
Yep.
Thank you so much for puttingthat crazy thought in my mind,
but I'm going to focus on thisright now.
And you have to really just kindof constantly be tuned in with
yourself.
To keep the ball rolling.
And I think if you try to ignoreit all, and because you said, I
(35:20):
can, because you say toyourself, I can do it all.
It's fine.
It's fine.
It's fine.
Everything's fine.
Eventually it's, it's not goingto be, it's going to catch up.
Awesome.
Yeah.
I love that.
So Ellie, before we startwrapping up, do you have any
final thoughts for ourlisteners, I think this is the
year for everyone.
I feel like 2024 was close toCOVID and things were starting
(35:43):
to blossom and grow, but I think2025 is the year that.
Everyone is just excited for andthere's hope and there's
vibrancy in the air.
So, my final thought is to telleveryone, all the listeners to
tap into that, ask for help whenyou need it so that you can be
part of that awesome energy.
And if the help you need ismarketing yourself and
(36:06):
copywriting services, you canreach out to me on my Instagram.
Um, Whitney, I don't know if youcan link that or yes, but the
handle somewhere.
Yeah, but that's the best placeto reach me.
I am a doom scroller till theday I die.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I'll put your Instagram downbelow and then I'll also put
(36:27):
your website.
Yes.
And my website.
Yes, for sure.
So listeners that will be downin our show notes as well.
Yay.
So, okay.
So I have to ask.
How was your first timerecording?
It was so fun.
I don't want it to end.
I feel like we're friends now.
I'm like, great, let's keep intouch.
This is awesome.
Oh, dude, we can send voicememos to each other all the time
(36:48):
now.
It'll be like our own, like,private, like, Instagram
podcast.
Like, of voice memos.
I know.
Do we start a Patreon?
I don't know.
It'll be the Ellie and Whitneyshow.
Get in for the tea.
Oh my gosh, okay.
So, thank you again, Ellie, forcoming on the show.
for having me.
I really, really appreciate youhaving, you coming in.
(37:10):
Like, I am so glad that you sentme that thread, message, and
that you slid into my DMs, andyou got this off.
Yes, algorithm.
Yes, thank you, algorithm.
You did something right.
Yes, yes, indeed.
Um, sweet.
And so, again.
Thank you for coming andeveryone else.
(37:31):
I will see you in the nextepisode.
Thank you again for listening toanother episode of Caffeine
Chaos.
Remember that if you like thisepisode, it would really mean
the world to us if you wouldleave us a review.
It really helps us get out thereand known to more people.
Make sure to hop over ontoInstagram and threads and follow
Caffeine Chaos Podcast and ifyou're up at midnight doom
(37:54):
scrolling threads, well, guesswhat?
I will see you there.
Send me a message, tag me, andyeah, let's keep the
conversation going.
Until next time friends, staycaffeinated, do your best, and
don't forget to ask for help.
Alright, I will see you all nexttime.
Love you all.
Bye!
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