October 22, 2024 • 26 mins
Unlock the secrets to effective school leadership with insights from George McFarland, an SREB leadership coach and seasoned educator with over thirty years of experience. Discover how establishing a clear purpose and fostering collaboration among stakeholders can transform school environments, even amidst the challenges of frequent leadership turnover. George shares his wisdom on the pivotal role of communication in aligning a school's mission with collective aspirations, ensuring teachers and staff feel valued and motivated. Learn how involving everyone from teachers to community members in shaping a school’s direction can create an environment where initiatives are not just understood but embraced.
We also explore the crucial development of teacher leaders and the "portrait of a graduate" concept that aligns educational goals with student outcomes. George offers practical advice for educators aspiring to leadership roles, highlighting the necessity of mentorship and resource utilization to hone leadership skills. Communication remains a key theme, as we discuss strategies for introducing change effectively in schools, emphasizing clarity and purpose in leaders' messages. This episode promises to equip you with actionable insights and inspiration for your professional journey in education.
Download our handout for more about this episode.
The Southern Regional Education Board is a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization that works with states and schools to improve education at every level, from early childhood through doctoral education and the workforce.
Follow Us on Social:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi George, Thank you so much for being here today.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Thank you, Ashley.
I'm blessed to be here andlooking forward to our
conversation today.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
All right, well, before we get started, I would
like to know a little bit aboutwho you are.
Can you give us a little bitabout your background?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
You bet I joined SREB in 2022.
So I'm beginning really, mythird year with the organization
.
Prior to that, I was 31 yearsin public education.
I'm out of the great state ofTexas You're on Well, celebrate
that and all of my years inpublic education 31 years were
in public education in Texas,and so I've done a variety of
(00:37):
roles.
I've been a teacher, I've beena coach, I've been an athletic
director, I've been principalsat the middle school level.
At the high school level I'vebeen.
I've done district finances,I've been a CFO, core district,
and I've also done the role ofsuperintendent for districts.
So that's a little bit of mybackground coming before I got
to SREB.
(00:57):
I'm married with a wonderfulwife and three grown children,
and they're a real blessing tomy life.
We enjoy all the time we canhave spending with them.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Well, wow, that is a very impressive background and
it fits perfectly with what Iwant to talk to you about today,
because I know you focus a loton leadership and I personally I
don't do any of the leadershiproles not usually anyway but I
have to deal with leaders a lot,and so I had some questions for
you about school leadership andDaniel told me that you would
(01:30):
be the perfect person to helpwith that.
So I want to start kind oftalking about me as a non-leader
.
In a meeting with a leader, Iwant to know.
Sometimes it can feel we're allbusy teachers, right, we all
have a hundred thousand thingsthat we're doing every day, that
we're expected to do.
And then we have these facultymeetings and we get put on
committees and they cansometimes not be clear why we're
(01:52):
there, and I thought you mightbe able to help us talk about it
from the leader's point of view.
Why are we in these meetings?
What can we get out of them?
You bet them, you bet.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I think those are great questions and great
wonderings that you have there,Ashley, because when I do work
with leaders consistently,obviously leaders are working
with people that they lead.
One of the things that I reallyfocus on in trying to grow them
in their leadership is how theyrelate to people, how they
communicate and how they deliverbeliefs and understandings to
(02:22):
those they lead, Because leadingis much more about those who
are doing the things that yousay to do.
Those are leaders are havingpeople that were willing to
follow you wherever you're going, and, regardless of the things
you're asking them to do thatare requirements of the job they
have a willingness to do it outof want instead of out of
direction or out of job purpose,and so I've worked with leaders
(02:45):
quite a bit, talking to themabout them.
You know one of the things youhit on already is that in
teacher role, many teachersdon't have their administrator's
certificate or licensure, andso they haven't been through the
leadership courses that theirschool leaders have.
But the other thing that youfind that teachers experience is
that their leaders turn overquite a bit, because the average
(03:07):
statistic on school leadershipturnover is somewhere in the
range of 20%.
So you know about.
One out of every five schoolsis experiencing a new leader
every year, and so when you gothrough that type of turnover
and teachers are getting a newleader to their campus, they may
not know is this leadersomebody that's going to be good
for our campus and good for ourkids, our community and the
(03:29):
things that we want to do as acampus?
Are they going to be affectedthat way or are they not going
to be effective, and how can Iidentify that?
And so you ask some greatquestions there that we can get
into and talk about how leaderscan communicate those things to
their teachers.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
That sounds good.
I'm looking forward to hearthem.
Let's start by talking abouteffective leaders.
What are they doing right?
What should I be looking forand why are they having me in
all these meetings?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah, that's a great question.
One of the things thateffective leaders will do from
the very get-go is they try toestablish a why for your
organization.
Without establishing a why or apurpose of why the organization
does what it does, you try toidentify in that why who are we
and why do we do the things wedo?
(04:15):
And unless you can communicatethat effectively to your staff,
you're basically a bunch ofpeople who are sitting together,
gathering together for ameeting, to meet for the purpose
of meeting, without any cleardirection or reason for the
meeting.
And so establishing that why ishuge, because every individual
(04:36):
has this human need to be partof something bigger than
themselves, and so that's why aleader that is effective will
establish the why, willestablish the purpose or mission
of the campus with that campusof teachers that he or she is
working with.
When they don't do that, that'swhere teachers feel like we're
just wasting time.
(04:56):
We're spending time meetingwhen I could be planning for my
classes, when I can spend timewriting the papers that I'm
having to grade and having totake those things home.
So how can effective leaders dothat?
So one of the things thateffective leaders will do to
develop that why is number one.
They're going to involve theentire staff in this process and
hopefully they'll involvestakeholders of the campus,
(05:18):
they'll involve students,they'll involve parents, they'll
involve community members.
But one of the things they'retrying to do is develop this
purpose or mission of the campus, of this is who we are and this
is why we do what we do.
And the purpose of involvingall stakeholders in that process
(05:39):
is you gather the buy-in.
In other words, a leader thatcomes in will not be effective
with a campus if he or she saysthis is the mission and purpose
of why we're here and it's hisor her mission and purpose.
It needs to be acollaboratively developed
mission and purpose that allstakeholders have their voice
and input into, so that theyhave buy-in into what the campus
(06:00):
is doing, the direction it'sgoing and why they're there.
And when you have that whybuilt in from a collaborative
process, then what you do is youdevelop teacher buy-in and all
of a sudden they have a desireto do things, not because you
told them to as a leader, butbecause they have the same why
(06:20):
that you have because theyhelped develop it.
I can tell you of a story that Ihad with a teacher as an
example of how this wholeprocess of understanding the why
and purpose of who we are andwhy we do what we do came into
play.
One of the things that we hadas a purpose for our campus at
one particular campus where Iwas a leader was that we were
there to serve the needs of ourstudents.
(06:42):
In other words, we needed tosee them be successful,
regardless of what it took onour end.
Okay, and so one of the thingsthat teachers can get
overwhelmed with is providinginterventions for students.
They have to work overtime.
They're staying after school,they're coming before school,
they're doing tutorials, they'redoing extra things to help
students that are struggling tolearn be successful.
(07:04):
They're doing extra things tohelp students that are
struggling to learn besuccessful.
And so I had a luncheon one daythat we were at and one of the
teachers in conversation kind ofhinted in the way that she
communicated that she was alittle bit overwhelmed and it's
because she's having to do somuch for the students who are
struggling to be successful.
And I had the opportunity tovisit with her one on one after
(07:26):
that, because we were withpeople and in that conversation
that I had with her on one.
I just brought her back to thelaw.
I said I understand you'reoverwhelmed, I know you're
struggling and that strugglereally is dealing with what
we're asking you to do as astaff member here, which is help
students that are struggling.
But can I ask you a question?
Why are we here in the firstplace?
I mean, why are we here at thiscampus and why are we working
(07:49):
with these students?
Is it just to help some besuccessful or is it to help all
be successful?
And she started to tear up alittle bit and she knew in her
heart, because she was part ofthat she was fully on board with
we're here to help all kids.
And she said that with tears inher eyes.
And I said, well then, the onesthat are really struggling,
(08:12):
should we be doing somethingmore to help or should we just
push them to the side?
And with tears in her eyes, shewas telling me we should be
helping those kids.
And I said and I know it's hard, but you know what.
You've got a purpose and Godput you here with special
ability and upland and you havean ability to help these kids
that are struggling.
You're a tremendous teacher andthe things that you can do for
(08:35):
kids is amazing, and so it justbrought her back to that whole
idea of this is why we're herewhen students are struggling.
That encourages us to helpbuild into our purpose of why
we're here when students arestruggling.
That encourages us to helpbuild into our purpose of why
we're here, of not being selfishbut looking at hey, I'm here to
help that student be successful, regardless of what it takes.
(08:55):
And so when they're broughtback to that that why and
they're struggling it helps themrefocus and it helps them
regain that purpose in theirlife and in their job of what
they're doing and so that theycan help children.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
And I think that's a great example.
But also something I noticedyou were telling that from your
point of view as an effectiveleader, you were talking about
how you made sure she saw thewhy and how that helped her.
Something I got out of that forthe teachers out there is it
started with the teacher who wasnot the leader, kind of saying,
hey, I'm overwhelmed, what'sgoing on, why are we doing all
(09:31):
this?
And I think that's somethingthat I got kind of from.
What you're saying is that Agood, effective leader is going
to have a why behind the meeting.
So, as the teacher, if I don'trecognize what that is, then it
might be a good idea for me toraise my hand in the meeting, go
after, do whatever I can to say, hey, I know you have a great
reason for this.
Can you help me see it?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
And that way we can have that conversation that you
just had with your teacher thatyou gave the example of you
bring up a great point, ashley,because one of the things I
always say that I try toconvince leaders of, and that I
would encourage teachers to dojust what you said to ask to
defend your position.
Okay, ask the leader to defend.
(10:12):
Why are we doing this?
Okay, because I always try toteach leaders that if you can't
defend why you're doing it, youneed to step back and reevaluate
what you're doing.
Okay, so I would encourageteachers to say that to reach
out, you know, raise your hand,go to that and not to embarrass,
right, not to get on the spot,but just like I did, I'd pull
(10:36):
that teacher aside, one-on-oneand we had conversations Go to
that reader, one-on-oneindividual, and say you know
what I'm struggling with this?
I'm struggling with time, I'mstruggling with understanding
why we're doing this.
Can you tell me and explainfurther why we're doing this and
how it leads us to besuccessful with what our purpose
is, which is to help studentsbe successful regardless of the
(10:59):
circumstance, what our purposeis, which is to help students be
successful regardless of thecircumstance.
And so when that leader getsput on the spot and can't answer
, that, it's going to bring themback, it's going to cut them to
the heart a little bit andbring them back to a realization
that am I doing this justbecause it's one more chink in
my arm that I feel I'mempowering and can put that over
(11:19):
the teachers, or are we doingthis for a reason that's going
to be beneficial to students?
And I always tell leaders ifyou can't defend that, please
take the time to step back,catch your breath, take more
than one breath, take some timeto reflect and say why are we
doing this and how is it goingto be beneficial for kids?
And then there's a flip side ofthat, ashley, that I always say
with teachers when you come tome and you want to try something
(11:41):
new or you want to do somethingdifferent, your charge now, as
the teacher, is to sell it to meas why do you want to do that
and how does that impact the whyof what we're doing?
In other words, if you, as theteacher, can sell it to me as,
hey, let's do this, because ifwe do this is going to help our
struggling learners besuccessful, then now we're on
(12:01):
board.
However, if you come to me andsay, hey, could we adjust the
schedule next year when you lookat planning it and put you know
my planning period back to backwas launched because that would
give me more time to do otherthings.
I would sit back the firstquestion.
I'd say how does that help ourstudents be more successful?
I would sit back the firstquestion.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I'd say how does that help our students be more
successful?
I think something that you'vebeen saying that is really
important.
You've said you started withthe why, but then you keep
emphasizing why is this helpfulto students?
Why is this helpful to studentsand I think that's something
really important is that idea offocusing on the student.
It's not just about finding thewhy, it's about finding the why
(12:45):
for the students.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yeah, so hopefully as a campus, when you, as a campus
, collaborate.
I've had enough experience indoing this and leading it myself
and helping other campusleaders do this.
One of the things we do in ourorganization is we help
districts and campuses developwhat we call a portrait of a
graduate, or a portrait of alearner, or a portrait of
success.
We have many different namesthat we utilize in our
(13:07):
organization.
It's dependent on the need ofthe organization that we're
working with, but part of thatprocess is developing that
portrait really develops valuesthat are tied into the why
you're doing what you're doing,and because we're in the
business of school, of educatingstudents and helping students
(13:27):
be successful, you're going tofind a lot of commonality in
mission statements and purposestatements that are formed
around this.
We're here because students needto be successful in their
learnings, and so what you'llfind out of an effective leader
is this constant focus onstudent success outcomes or
student runner outcomes, just aconstant focus on how students
(13:48):
can be successful in theireducational process, because the
bottom line is I have a job asa leader, you have a job as a
teacher, but that job is onlydependent on our customers.
We have customers which are thestudents and the students.
What they're trying to buy fromus or purchase even though it's
not by money per se, but bytheir attendance and by their
presence is they're trying togain understanding through that
(14:11):
process of education, and sowe're there to supply it to them
as opportunities for them tolearn and be successful.
And so your effective leader isalways going to come back to
our students being successful.
Show me that data, let's lookat it and let's determine how we
can improve for students to bemore successful.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
I think that sounds great.
So you've been giving me somegreat advice on how to recognize
what's happening in thesesituations, what's happening in
these meetings and committees.
I'm on when I have an effectiveleader, and luckily I do have
an effective leader, so I knowI'll be able to find those
things.
Not everybody's so lucky.
What advice might you have fora teacher who is in all these
(14:53):
meetings because a leader ispulling them in and maybe that
leader isn't as effective asthey should be?
You have any advice for them?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, one of the things that I would encourage
teachers to do is to use timethat they collaborate to focus
on the things that they caninfluence and the things that
they control.
So many times you may be asked,as from your leadership, to meet
in PLCs or to meet as contentarea, common content area
teachers or evencross-curricular content area
(15:25):
teachers, but you're given timewithin the day, for example, to
maybe meet collaboratively as agroup of teachers, and I would
just try to be as intentional aspossible to control the things
that you can control, influencethe things that you can
influence, which are how can mystudents be successful when you
bring your old focus back?
(15:47):
Okay, so, like you explained,ashley, maybe my leader is not
so good at being an effectivecommunicator and maybe he or she
is even driven to be moreprideful and self-driven on how
it's going to benefit them andthe things that they do, and
maybe try new initiatives thathave no benefit to kids but have
a benefit to that campus or himor her being promoted some way.
(16:11):
Okay, that happens when she andyou're going to have leaders
that will sometimes fall intothose categories.
So what can I control as theteacher?
We expect teachers to beleaders in their classroom.
You are the leader of yourclassrooms, okay.
Whether you're just aself-contained classroom with
elementary students or you havemultiple classes in secondary,
you're the leader for everyclass that sits before you, and
(16:32):
so when that happens, I wouldjust ensure that from your own
leadership role with thosestudents with that classroom,
and then, when you're able to bewith other adults that you're
teaming with or collaboratingwith, I would encourage you to
focus on that student learningoutcome and how you, from your
role, can influence it and canimprove it and help children
(16:52):
that are in your care.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
I love that answer.
I think that's a greatperspective to look at and it
does kind of lead me into mythird and final question that I
had for you, which is I am nottechnically a leader as far as
my title goes, but there aremany situations, like you just
said, in my classroom, where Iam a leader.
(17:15):
I am the leader of the class,but also sometimes in meetings I
might have to step up and be aleader.
Or maybe I just want to go forthat open department head role
that just opened up, you know,last week.
Whatever it is, there aresituations where I might need
some leadership advice myselfand, as you said, maybe I
haven't taken that leadershipclass like the admin have.
(17:35):
What advice do you have forjust a teacher who is finding
themselves in a leadership role,whether temporarily, or maybe
something that they want toaspire to?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
I would certainly use every resource that you can,
which is maybe leadership oncampus, somebody you've
developed a relationship inleadership.
If that's not your campusprincipal, if that's not an
assistant principal on thecampus or an instructional
leader on the campus, maybethat's a colleague that you have
as a mentor or somebody thatyou've developed a relationship
or you have a high respecttowards, based on their
(18:07):
experience level on the campusand in the classroom and just
years of experience for doingwhat they do with students.
So there's many outlets thatyou can look towards.
One of the things as SREB, asan organization, that we
encourage campus leaders to dois develop what we call a
distributive leadership model.
So we ask them to develop whatwe call teacher-led focus teams.
(18:29):
So Ashley's a teacher for meand she's the head of the
English department and maybe Iask her to help with this campus
problem of practice and she'sgonna be a leader for this group
and maybe that's a leader notjust the Bingworth teachers, but
it's a co-curricular.
So you have math teachers, youhave some science teachers, you
have different departmentteachers on your campus that
(18:51):
you're leading.
In this process we try todevelop teacher leaders for the
purpose of giving them ownershipof what's happening on campus,
giving them opportunities toprovide solutions to the
problems on campus so that whenthose solutions are implemented
the teachers have buy-in tothose solutions because that
group of teachers developed thesolutions themselves.
(19:13):
They didn't come from me as theleader, or from the campus
principal or from anotheradministrator.
You, as the teacher group, havedeveloped principal or from
another administrator.
You, as the teacher group, havedeveloped, have addressed a
problem of practice and you'vesolved it yourself and have
strategies to implement toaddress that problem by
eliminating the root cause ofthat problem.
So we encourage leaders to tryto develop teacher leaders in
(19:35):
that mentality of now.
Ashley has been to that processof leading other teachers and
guiding them through a processof helping the campus solve
problems.
Now we can start putting her indifferent roles of leadership
that maybe ultimately lead herto wanting to be that campus
leader of somebody who's goingto stress the importance of
(19:56):
students being successful on herown campus.
So that's why we try to buildthat distributive leadership
model is you're building yourpeople, you're building their
leadership skills in theirclassroom, amongst their peers
and colleagues, and hopefully itfeeds into a higher calling
that they may have to be acampus leader themselves.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Okay, that is great, I do want to.
Before we wrap up, I want tokind of give you.
I take notes as I'm listeningand I want to make sure that I
got your good tips here.
So this is what I took awayfrom what you said.
So, first of all, when I findmyself in a meeting or committee
that maybe I don't understandthe purpose of, I should be
looking for the why, and if Ican't find it, maybe go ask
(20:39):
whoever's leading the meetingwhat the why is, in a respectful
manner, of course.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, that arm.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
And then if I have a leader that maybe isn't as
effective as I would like maybethey aren't as clear about what
the why is instead of worryingabout that, focus on what I can
control and focusing on how Ican make what I'm getting out of
that meeting better for thestudents.
And then, finally, if I want tobe a leader myself one day, or
(21:05):
I'm just thrown into anopportunity, use the resources I
have mentors on campus and thentake advantage of short, small
or not even small, but maybedepartment-wide leadership
opportunities that might help megrow into bigger leadership
roles down the road.
Is that a good summary of whatwe learned today?
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I think that would be it.
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
All right, well, thank you.
And then you heard that bell.
That means that we are almoston time, so please give us our
weekly homework before you go.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
So I would just encourage you to apply those
things that we talked about inyour next meeting or opportunity
that you have.
When you're called to gather asa group, as a faculty, and your
leader comes, before you Startasking yourself, in the things
that are being portrayed, numberone, is he or she communicating
effectively why you're doingthis?
(21:55):
Because that leader that'seffective will always bring you
back to purpose of why we'redoing something, particularly if
it's a new initiative or achange that's being made for the
campus.
Start looking for that why andthe explanation and the
understanding that's given thereand the clarity that's
presented to the group, and justbe aware that, if you're not
seeing it, that it's somethingthat you can control, either
(22:17):
from going to ask yourself aboutwhat it is or taking your own
application of what you'velearned here and what a good
leader does and applying it tothe situations you can control
in class with your students.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
All right.
Well, I think those have beengreat tips.
I am looking forward to tryingsome of these and thank you so
much for coming here today.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yes, thank you so much for having me.
I've enjoyed the time to meetwith you and have this
conversation and hopefully it'llbe a blessing and a benefit to
somebody out there that'slistening.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
I hope so too.
Thanks again and have a greatrest of your day.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Thank you Goodbye.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Bye.
Hi George, Thank you so much for being here today.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Thank you, Ashley.
I'm blessed to be here andlooking forward to our
conversation today.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
All right, well, before we get started, I would
like to know a little bit aboutwho you are.
Can you give us a little bitabout your background?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
You bet I joined SREB in 2022.
So I'm beginning really, mythird year with the organization
.
Prior to that, I was 31 yearsin public education.
I'm out of the great state ofTexas You're on Well, celebrate
that and all of my years inpublic education 31 years were
in public education in Texas,and so I've done a variety of
(00:37):
roles.
I've been a teacher, I've beena coach, I've been an athletic
director, I've been principalsat the middle school level.
At the high school level I'vebeen.
I've done district finances,I've been a CFO, core district,
and I've also done the role ofsuperintendent for districts.
So that's a little bit of mybackground coming before I got
to SREB.
(00:57):
I'm married with a wonderfulwife and three grown children,
and they're a real blessing tomy life.
We enjoy all the time we canhave spending with them.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Well, wow, that is a very impressive background and
it fits perfectly with what Iwant to talk to you about today,
because I know you focus a loton leadership and I personally I
don't do any of the leadershiproles not usually anyway but I
have to deal with leaders a lot,and so I had some questions for
you about school leadership andDaniel told me that you would
(01:30):
be the perfect person to helpwith that.
So I want to start kind oftalking about me as a non-leader
.
In a meeting with a leader, Iwant to know.
Sometimes it can feel we're allbusy teachers, right, we all
have a hundred thousand thingsthat we're doing every day, that
we're expected to do.
And then we have these facultymeetings and we get put on
committees and they cansometimes not be clear why we're
(01:52):
there, and I thought you mightbe able to help us talk about it
from the leader's point of view.
Why are we in these meetings?
What can we get out of them?
You bet them, you bet.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I think those are great questions and great
wonderings that you have there,Ashley, because when I do work
with leaders consistently,obviously leaders are working
with people that they lead.
One of the things that I reallyfocus on in trying to grow them
in their leadership is how theyrelate to people, how they
communicate and how they deliverbeliefs and understandings to
(02:22):
those they lead, Because leadingis much more about those who
are doing the things that yousay to do.
Those are leaders are havingpeople that were willing to
follow you wherever you're going, and, regardless of the things
you're asking them to do thatare requirements of the job they
have a willingness to do it outof want instead of out of
direction or out of job purpose,and so I've worked with leaders
(02:45):
quite a bit, talking to themabout them.
You know one of the things youhit on already is that in
teacher role, many teachersdon't have their administrator's
certificate or licensure, andso they haven't been through the
leadership courses that theirschool leaders have.
But the other thing that youfind that teachers experience is
that their leaders turn overquite a bit, because the average
(03:07):
statistic on school leadershipturnover is somewhere in the
range of 20%.
So you know about.
One out of every five schoolsis experiencing a new leader
every year, and so when you gothrough that type of turnover
and teachers are getting a newleader to their campus, they may
not know is this leadersomebody that's going to be good
for our campus and good for ourkids, our community and the
(03:29):
things that we want to do as acampus?
Are they going to be affectedthat way or are they not going
to be effective, and how can Iidentify that?
And so you ask some greatquestions there that we can get
into and talk about how leaderscan communicate those things to
their teachers.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
That sounds good.
I'm looking forward to hearthem.
Let's start by talking abouteffective leaders.
What are they doing right?
What should I be looking forand why are they having me in
all these meetings?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah, that's a great question.
One of the things thateffective leaders will do from
the very get-go is they try toestablish a why for your
organization.
Without establishing a why or apurpose of why the organization
does what it does, you try toidentify in that why who are we
and why do we do the things wedo?
(04:15):
And unless you can communicatethat effectively to your staff,
you're basically a bunch ofpeople who are sitting together,
gathering together for ameeting, to meet for the purpose
of meeting, without any cleardirection or reason for the
meeting.
And so establishing that why ishuge, because every individual
(04:36):
has this human need to be partof something bigger than
themselves, and so that's why aleader that is effective will
establish the why, willestablish the purpose or mission
of the campus with that campusof teachers that he or she is
working with.
When they don't do that, that'swhere teachers feel like we're
just wasting time.
(04:56):
We're spending time meetingwhen I could be planning for my
classes, when I can spend timewriting the papers that I'm
having to grade and having totake those things home.
So how can effective leaders dothat?
So one of the things thateffective leaders will do to
develop that why is number one.
They're going to involve theentire staff in this process and
hopefully they'll involvestakeholders of the campus,
(05:18):
they'll involve students,they'll involve parents, they'll
involve community members.
But one of the things they'retrying to do is develop this
purpose or mission of the campus, of this is who we are and this
is why we do what we do.
And the purpose of involvingall stakeholders in that process
(05:39):
is you gather the buy-in.
In other words, a leader thatcomes in will not be effective
with a campus if he or she saysthis is the mission and purpose
of why we're here and it's hisor her mission and purpose.
It needs to be acollaboratively developed
mission and purpose that allstakeholders have their voice
and input into, so that theyhave buy-in into what the campus
(06:00):
is doing, the direction it'sgoing and why they're there.
And when you have that whybuilt in from a collaborative
process, then what you do is youdevelop teacher buy-in and all
of a sudden they have a desireto do things, not because you
told them to as a leader, butbecause they have the same why
(06:20):
that you have because theyhelped develop it.
I can tell you of a story that Ihad with a teacher as an
example of how this wholeprocess of understanding the why
and purpose of who we are andwhy we do what we do came into
play.
One of the things that we hadas a purpose for our campus at
one particular campus where Iwas a leader was that we were
there to serve the needs of ourstudents.
(06:42):
In other words, we needed tosee them be successful,
regardless of what it took onour end.
Okay, and so one of the thingsthat teachers can get
overwhelmed with is providinginterventions for students.
They have to work overtime.
They're staying after school,they're coming before school,
they're doing tutorials, they'redoing extra things to help
students that are struggling tolearn be successful.
(07:04):
They're doing extra things tohelp students that are
struggling to learn besuccessful.
And so I had a luncheon one daythat we were at and one of the
teachers in conversation kind ofhinted in the way that she
communicated that she was alittle bit overwhelmed and it's
because she's having to do somuch for the students who are
struggling to be successful.
And I had the opportunity tovisit with her one on one after
(07:26):
that, because we were withpeople and in that conversation
that I had with her on one.
I just brought her back to thelaw.
I said I understand you'reoverwhelmed, I know you're
struggling and that strugglereally is dealing with what
we're asking you to do as astaff member here, which is help
students that are struggling.
But can I ask you a question?
Why are we here in the firstplace?
I mean, why are we here at thiscampus and why are we working
(07:49):
with these students?
Is it just to help some besuccessful or is it to help all
be successful?
And she started to tear up alittle bit and she knew in her
heart, because she was part ofthat she was fully on board with
we're here to help all kids.
And she said that with tears inher eyes.
And I said, well then, the onesthat are really struggling,
(08:12):
should we be doing somethingmore to help or should we just
push them to the side?
And with tears in her eyes, shewas telling me we should be
helping those kids.
And I said and I know it's hard, but you know what.
You've got a purpose and Godput you here with special
ability and upland and you havean ability to help these kids
that are struggling.
You're a tremendous teacher andthe things that you can do for
(08:35):
kids is amazing, and so it justbrought her back to that whole
idea of this is why we're herewhen students are struggling.
That encourages us to helpbuild into our purpose of why
we're here when students arestruggling.
That encourages us to helpbuild into our purpose of why
we're here, of not being selfishbut looking at hey, I'm here to
help that student be successful, regardless of what it takes.
(08:55):
And so when they're broughtback to that that why and
they're struggling it helps themrefocus and it helps them
regain that purpose in theirlife and in their job of what
they're doing and so that theycan help children.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
And I think that's a great example.
But also something I noticedyou were telling that from your
point of view as an effectiveleader, you were talking about
how you made sure she saw thewhy and how that helped her.
Something I got out of that forthe teachers out there is it
started with the teacher who wasnot the leader, kind of saying,
hey, I'm overwhelmed, what'sgoing on, why are we doing all
(09:31):
this?
And I think that's somethingthat I got kind of from.
What you're saying is that Agood, effective leader is going
to have a why behind the meeting.
So, as the teacher, if I don'trecognize what that is, then it
might be a good idea for me toraise my hand in the meeting, go
after, do whatever I can to say, hey, I know you have a great
reason for this.
Can you help me see it?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
And that way we can have that conversation that you
just had with your teacher thatyou gave the example of you
bring up a great point, ashley,because one of the things I
always say that I try toconvince leaders of, and that I
would encourage teachers to dojust what you said to ask to
defend your position.
Okay, ask the leader to defend.
(10:12):
Why are we doing this?
Okay, because I always try toteach leaders that if you can't
defend why you're doing it, youneed to step back and reevaluate
what you're doing.
Okay, so I would encourageteachers to say that to reach
out, you know, raise your hand,go to that and not to embarrass,
right, not to get on the spot,but just like I did, I'd pull
(10:36):
that teacher aside, one-on-oneand we had conversations Go to
that reader, one-on-oneindividual, and say you know
what I'm struggling with this?
I'm struggling with time, I'mstruggling with understanding
why we're doing this.
Can you tell me and explainfurther why we're doing this and
how it leads us to besuccessful with what our purpose
is, which is to help studentsbe successful regardless of the
(10:59):
circumstance, what our purposeis, which is to help students be
successful regardless of thecircumstance.
And so when that leader getsput on the spot and can't answer
, that, it's going to bring themback, it's going to cut them to
the heart a little bit andbring them back to a realization
that am I doing this justbecause it's one more chink in
my arm that I feel I'mempowering and can put that over
(11:19):
the teachers, or are we doingthis for a reason that's going
to be beneficial to students?
And I always tell leaders ifyou can't defend that, please
take the time to step back,catch your breath, take more
than one breath, take some timeto reflect and say why are we
doing this and how is it goingto be beneficial for kids?
And then there's a flip side ofthat, ashley, that I always say
with teachers when you come tome and you want to try something
(11:41):
new or you want to do somethingdifferent, your charge now, as
the teacher, is to sell it to meas why do you want to do that
and how does that impact the whyof what we're doing?
In other words, if you, as theteacher, can sell it to me as,
hey, let's do this, because ifwe do this is going to help our
struggling learners besuccessful, then now we're on
(12:01):
board.
However, if you come to me andsay, hey, could we adjust the
schedule next year when you lookat planning it and put you know
my planning period back to backwas launched because that would
give me more time to do otherthings.
I would sit back the firstquestion.
I'd say how does that help ourstudents be more successful?
I would sit back the firstquestion.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I'd say how does that help our students be more
successful?
I think something that you'vebeen saying that is really
important.
You've said you started withthe why, but then you keep
emphasizing why is this helpfulto students?
Why is this helpful to studentsand I think that's something
really important is that idea offocusing on the student.
It's not just about finding thewhy, it's about finding the why
(12:45):
for the students.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yeah, so hopefully as a campus, when you, as a campus
, collaborate.
I've had enough experience indoing this and leading it myself
and helping other campusleaders do this.
One of the things we do in ourorganization is we help
districts and campuses developwhat we call a portrait of a
graduate, or a portrait of alearner, or a portrait of
success.
We have many different namesthat we utilize in our
(13:07):
organization.
It's dependent on the need ofthe organization that we're
working with, but part of thatprocess is developing that
portrait really develops valuesthat are tied into the why
you're doing what you're doing,and because we're in the
business of school, of educatingstudents and helping students
(13:27):
be successful, you're going tofind a lot of commonality in
mission statements and purposestatements that are formed
around this.
We're here because students needto be successful in their
learnings, and so what you'llfind out of an effective leader
is this constant focus onstudent success outcomes or
student runner outcomes, just aconstant focus on how students
(13:48):
can be successful in theireducational process, because the
bottom line is I have a job asa leader, you have a job as a
teacher, but that job is onlydependent on our customers.
We have customers which are thestudents and the students.
What they're trying to buy fromus or purchase even though it's
not by money per se, but bytheir attendance and by their
presence is they're trying togain understanding through that
(14:11):
process of education, and sowe're there to supply it to them
as opportunities for them tolearn and be successful.
And so your effective leader isalways going to come back to
our students being successful.
Show me that data, let's lookat it and let's determine how we
can improve for students to bemore successful.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
I think that sounds great.
So you've been giving me somegreat advice on how to recognize
what's happening in thesesituations, what's happening in
these meetings and committees.
I'm on when I have an effectiveleader, and luckily I do have
an effective leader, so I knowI'll be able to find those
things.
Not everybody's so lucky.
What advice might you have fora teacher who is in all these
(14:53):
meetings because a leader ispulling them in and maybe that
leader isn't as effective asthey should be?
You have any advice for them?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, one of the things that I would encourage
teachers to do is to use timethat they collaborate to focus
on the things that they caninfluence and the things that
they control.
So many times you may be asked,as from your leadership, to meet
in PLCs or to meet as contentarea, common content area
teachers or evencross-curricular content area
(15:25):
teachers, but you're given timewithin the day, for example, to
maybe meet collaboratively as agroup of teachers, and I would
just try to be as intentional aspossible to control the things
that you can control, influencethe things that you can
influence, which are how can mystudents be successful when you
bring your old focus back?
(15:47):
Okay, so, like you explained,ashley, maybe my leader is not
so good at being an effectivecommunicator and maybe he or she
is even driven to be moreprideful and self-driven on how
it's going to benefit them andthe things that they do, and
maybe try new initiatives thathave no benefit to kids but have
a benefit to that campus or himor her being promoted some way.
(16:11):
Okay, that happens when she andyou're going to have leaders
that will sometimes fall intothose categories.
So what can I control as theteacher?
We expect teachers to beleaders in their classroom.
You are the leader of yourclassrooms, okay.
Whether you're just aself-contained classroom with
elementary students or you havemultiple classes in secondary,
you're the leader for everyclass that sits before you, and
(16:32):
so when that happens, I wouldjust ensure that from your own
leadership role with thosestudents with that classroom,
and then, when you're able to bewith other adults that you're
teaming with or collaboratingwith, I would encourage you to
focus on that student learningoutcome and how you, from your
role, can influence it and canimprove it and help children
(16:52):
that are in your care.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
I love that answer.
I think that's a greatperspective to look at and it
does kind of lead me into mythird and final question that I
had for you, which is I am nottechnically a leader as far as
my title goes, but there aremany situations, like you just
said, in my classroom, where Iam a leader.
(17:15):
I am the leader of the class,but also sometimes in meetings I
might have to step up and be aleader.
Or maybe I just want to go forthat open department head role
that just opened up, you know,last week.
Whatever it is, there aresituations where I might need
some leadership advice myselfand, as you said, maybe I
haven't taken that leadershipclass like the admin have.
(17:35):
What advice do you have forjust a teacher who is finding
themselves in a leadership role,whether temporarily, or maybe
something that they want toaspire to?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
I would certainly use every resource that you can,
which is maybe leadership oncampus, somebody you've
developed a relationship inleadership.
If that's not your campusprincipal, if that's not an
assistant principal on thecampus or an instructional
leader on the campus, maybethat's a colleague that you have
as a mentor or somebody thatyou've developed a relationship
or you have a high respecttowards, based on their
(18:07):
experience level on the campusand in the classroom and just
years of experience for doingwhat they do with students.
So there's many outlets thatyou can look towards.
One of the things as SREB, asan organization, that we
encourage campus leaders to dois develop what we call a
distributive leadership model.
So we ask them to develop whatwe call teacher-led focus teams.
(18:29):
So Ashley's a teacher for meand she's the head of the
English department and maybe Iask her to help with this campus
problem of practice and she'sgonna be a leader for this group
and maybe that's a leader notjust the Bingworth teachers, but
it's a co-curricular.
So you have math teachers, youhave some science teachers, you
have different departmentteachers on your campus that
(18:51):
you're leading.
In this process we try todevelop teacher leaders for the
purpose of giving them ownershipof what's happening on campus,
giving them opportunities toprovide solutions to the
problems on campus so that whenthose solutions are implemented
the teachers have buy-in tothose solutions because that
group of teachers developed thesolutions themselves.
(19:13):
They didn't come from me as theleader, or from the campus
principal or from anotheradministrator.
You, as the teacher group, havedeveloped principal or from
another administrator.
You, as the teacher group, havedeveloped, have addressed a
problem of practice and you'vesolved it yourself and have
strategies to implement toaddress that problem by
eliminating the root cause ofthat problem.
So we encourage leaders to tryto develop teacher leaders in
(19:35):
that mentality of now.
Ashley has been to that processof leading other teachers and
guiding them through a processof helping the campus solve
problems.
Now we can start putting her indifferent roles of leadership
that maybe ultimately lead herto wanting to be that campus
leader of somebody who's goingto stress the importance of
(19:56):
students being successful on herown campus.
So that's why we try to buildthat distributive leadership
model is you're building yourpeople, you're building their
leadership skills in theirclassroom, amongst their peers
and colleagues, and hopefully itfeeds into a higher calling
that they may have to be acampus leader themselves.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Okay, that is great, I do want to.
Before we wrap up, I want tokind of give you.
I take notes as I'm listeningand I want to make sure that I
got your good tips here.
So this is what I took awayfrom what you said.
So, first of all, when I findmyself in a meeting or committee
that maybe I don't understandthe purpose of, I should be
looking for the why, and if Ican't find it, maybe go ask
(20:39):
whoever's leading the meetingwhat the why is, in a respectful
manner, of course.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, that arm.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
And then if I have a leader that maybe isn't as
effective as I would like maybethey aren't as clear about what
the why is instead of worryingabout that, focus on what I can
control and focusing on how Ican make what I'm getting out of
that meeting better for thestudents.
And then, finally, if I want tobe a leader myself one day, or
(21:05):
I'm just thrown into anopportunity, use the resources I
have mentors on campus and thentake advantage of short, small
or not even small, but maybedepartment-wide leadership
opportunities that might help megrow into bigger leadership
roles down the road.
Is that a good summary of whatwe learned today?
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I think that would be it.
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
All right, well, thank you.
And then you heard that bell.
That means that we are almoston time, so please give us our
weekly homework before you go.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
So I would just encourage you to apply those
things that we talked about inyour next meeting or opportunity
that you have.
When you're called to gather asa group, as a faculty, and your
leader comes, before you Startasking yourself, in the things
that are being portrayed, numberone, is he or she communicating
effectively why you're doingthis?
(21:55):
Because that leader that'seffective will always bring you
back to purpose of why we'redoing something, particularly if
it's a new initiative or achange that's being made for the
campus.
Start looking for that why andthe explanation and the
understanding that's given thereand the clarity that's
presented to the group, and justbe aware that, if you're not
seeing it, that it's somethingthat you can control, either
(22:17):
from going to ask yourself aboutwhat it is or taking your own
application of what you'velearned here and what a good
leader does and applying it tothe situations you can control
in class with your students.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
All right.
Well, I think those have beengreat tips.
I am looking forward to tryingsome of these and thank you so
much for coming here today.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yes, thank you so much for having me.
I've enjoyed the time to meetwith you and have this
conversation and hopefully it'llbe a blessing and a benefit to
somebody out there that'slistening.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
I hope so too.
Thanks again and have a greatrest of your day.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Thank you Goodbye.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Bye.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
True Crime Tonight
If you eat, sleep, and breathe true crime, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT is serving up your nightly fix. Five nights a week, KT STUDIOS & iHEART RADIO invite listeners to pull up a seat for an unfiltered look at the biggest cases making headlines, celebrity scandals, and the trials everyone is watching. With a mix of expert analysis, hot takes, and listener call-ins, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT goes beyond the headlines to uncover the twists, turns, and unanswered questions that keep us all obsessed—because, at TRUE CRIME TONIGHT, there’s a seat for everyone. Whether breaking down crime scene forensics, scrutinizing serial killers, or debating the most binge-worthy true crime docs, True Crime Tonight is the fresh, fast-paced, and slightly addictive home for true crime lovers.