EP 70 | Justice For Sandra Birchmore, Stoughton, Massachusetts | Part Two with Susanne Cleveland

Episode 70 | This week is a bonus! The show will continue on a biweekly release schedule. This is a special episode continuing my conversation with Susanne Cleveland of Justice for Sandra Birchmore. There is a lot that needs to be said and there is much more to come in the weeks ahead for her case and the man who has been arrested and charged in her murder.

Subjects discussed include sexual abuse, coercive control, self harm, homicide, police misconduct. Sometimes I swear. Listen with care.

Sandra Birchmore's short life was filled with loss and disappointment, but she seemed to take it in stride, looking at the brightside, and was forging her own path in spite of it all. She was finding success on her terms. She was hired to work for the Sharon School System as a teaching aid, she was preparing the process of going to nursing school, had recently moved into her very own apartment in Canton and, what pleased her the most, she was expecting a baby.

All those plans were haulted when a man, a man she had looked up to for much of her life, made a plan to end it. And he almost got away with it.

Source links at crimeofthetruestkind.com

Justice for Sandra Birchmore Facebook Group

The tragic death of Sandra Birchmore has jolted a town and exposed alarming misconduct within the Stoughton Police Department. Advocate Susanne Cleveland joins me again (please listen to part one) to scrutinize the internal investigation that revealed appalling actions by former officers Matthew Farwell, William Farwell, and Robert C. Devine. Their crimes, including statutory rape by at least one of them, have spurred efforts to decertify them and fueled a wrongful death lawsuit led by Sandra’s family. This episode unpacks the systemic issues in law enforcement and the crucial role public outcry plays in driving accountability and reform.

This episode explores the broader implications for protecting individuals from predatory behavior within law enforcement. We reflect on the ongoing battle for legislative change, the importance of creating safe spaces for survivors, and the public’s frustration with law enforcement’s mishandling of critical cases.

Don't miss the next live show, featuring North Shore Crime Cases and an engaging Q&A session on Thursday, Oct 10 at Off Cabot in Beverly, Mass.
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Episode Transcript

Anngelle Wood (00:00):
Well, hello, my name is Anngelle Wood and this
is Crime of the Chewest Kind.
Consider this a bonus episode.

(00:26):
First episode back of the newseason.
It was extra long.
This is a very layered case.
There is a lot going on and hasbeen for quite some time.
This show will continue on abi-weekly schedule.
Live show Thursday, October 10that Off Cabot in Beverly,
massachusetts.

(00:47):
Come out if you can.
There will be more live showsto come.
Thank you to our Patreonsupporters.
New this week Meryl and SolidGold.
Kate M, our superstar EP, lisaMcColgan Happy birthday.
I have a monthly mini on the wayfor September Real life Jaws,.
If you will.
You can support the show.

(01:08):
Four tiers starting at $1.
Patreoncom slash crime of thetruest kind.
I appreciate each and everyshow of support, whether it's
just following, sharingsomething online.
Everything makes a bigdifference.
Five-star review on ApplePodcasts.

(01:28):
It's a one-woman operation here, my friends.
This is episode 70.
I continue my conversation withSusanne Cleveland, an advocate
and part of the Justice forSandra Birch Moore Facebook
group.
It is a movement.
They have been working hard tokeep her case in the public eye.

(01:50):
Episode 70, hunker down with me.
In Stoughton, Massachusetts, aninternal investigation is
conducted within the StoughtonPolice Department beginning in
2021, shortly after the death ofSandra Birchmore.

(02:13):
The findings were released in a60-page report in September of
2022 that found three Stoughtonofficers had acted improperly.
That found three Stoughtonofficers had acted improperly.
Language in the report includedthings like failing to
demonstrate attention anddevotion to duty, incompetence,
failure to demonstrate soundjudgment, all behaviors

(02:36):
considered unbecoming of apolice officer sworn to serve
and protect.
Upon release of the report,stoughton Police Chief Donna
McNamara said the informationwas deeply troubling as a human
being and a police chief.
Named were former cops MatthewFarwell, william Farwell and

(02:57):
Robert C Devine.
Now Devine you will hear, alsohad a sex and lie scandal
probably some videotape toowhere he was framing a woman he
had had a sexual relationshipwith while he was married to
somebody else.
This goes back to 2015.
He was accusing this woman ofharassment when he was actually

(03:25):
the harasser.
He orchestrated all sorts ofthings to create phone calls and
emails and messages, etc.
To suggest that this woman wastargeting he and his wife, when
the whole time it was him.
He was found out, but somehowhe still managed to get his job

(03:50):
back.
What Sergeant McNamara calledfor upon the release of this
report, referring to them asunfit to serve, and asked that
the state's new Peace OfficerStandards and Training
Commission decertify them, whichwould bar them from working as
police officers ever again.

(04:11):
The Post Commission is a newboard to oversee officers at
each one of the state's 431 lawenforcement agencies, identify
and investigate corruption andto decertify officers found
guilty of misconduct rangingfrom all sorts of things,
including, but not limited to,sexual misconduct of nearly

(04:40):
9,000 officers in person by July1, a deadline established under
the 2020 law as part of a newrecertification process.
In addition to the StoughtonPolice Department, abington
Police Department confirmed itwas aware of alleged misconduct
by one of its officers.
That officer, you will find out, is Joshua Heal.

(05:03):
After the release of thisinternal investigation, on
December 29, 2022, sandra'sfamily or the Birchmore estate
filed a wrongful death lawsuit,alleging wrongful death,
negligence, negligentsupervision, negligent retention
, pain and suffering andemotional distress, stating the

(05:26):
years of grooming of Sandra,beginning when she was part of
the Explorers program.
Now Matthew Farwell is beingheld and charged with Sandra's
death, among other things, and,as far as I can tell, william
Farwell and Robert C Devine areboth continuing the

(05:51):
post-commission hearings, all ofwhom have been decertified, and
, as I understand it, devine inparticular is fighting his
decertification.
It has everything to do withhis pension.
I continue my conversation withSuzanne Cleveland when I tell

(06:14):
you we spoke for about sevenhours about Sandra Birchmore's
story.
That is no exaggeration.
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(06:36):
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Susanne Cleveland (07:02):
In this case, we now know that he admitted to
probably the worst of the worstalready.
I mean, it's documented, it'sup on massgov that he committed
statutory rape.
Still nobody did anything aboutthat.
We'll circle back to that, butthat was as a gesture to take

(07:22):
energy and attention away fromcommitting murder.

Anngelle Wood (07:26):
It's documented that he effectively resigned
when this internal investigationwas taking place.
He clearly had no other choicebut to leave the Stoughton
Police Department.

Susanne Cleveland (07:39):
Yes, and the only move is to raise holy hell
by way of a civil trial.
More power to them for doingthat.
We wouldn't be here with thisbroad, sweeping motility
happening right now.
We wouldn't be here if not forthat, obviously, the FBI had a
hand in that.
Public outcry, attention andpushback on.

(08:03):
Hey, we're not just writingthis young woman's life off.
We're not going quietly intothat good night and just saying
oh, you know, women getemotional Sometimes.
They just impulsively decidethat it's over, in spite of all
this insurmountable evidencethat that monster did this to
her.

Anngelle Wood (08:23):
Let's talk about that evidence.
Let's talk about whatultimately led us to where we
are today.
It was the medical examinerruled that it was a suicide,
with OK.
So surprise everyone I'm not adoctor Given the affidavit when
they break down pretty basicfindings in that report about

(08:49):
how Sandra was found, detailingthe way she was sitting, the
pressure, the way her necklacewas broken, just this sort of
play-by-play that the doctorgoes through in evaluating the
information post-autopsy throughthe medical examiner's office.

(09:11):
Norfolk County, right, yes,Norfolk County Anybody worth
their weight could havedetermined the fact that she
would not have rested that way,that she would not have rested
that way, that there was animpression of the strap that she
was staged.
We know he tried to stage it tolook like she took her own life

(09:32):
.
He failed Because he doesn'teven know how physics works and
the state of the body and howher weight would fall and how
things would actually appear ifit was a legitimate suicide, as
this person was banking onhappening that.

(09:52):
He would just sky through thisand no one would ever bat an eye
or ask another question abouthis involvement.

Susanne Cleveland (10:00):
he didn't have to be good at it, he had
his, he had fanning and he hadit's a, it's a pretty lengthy
list of troopers and officersand that's.
That's a whole other episode.
But in and out of thatapartment hopefully we'll find
out during the course of this,this ongoing case, who maybe

(10:20):
raised their hand and said hey,you know what I'm not, I don't
really think that that's howthat happened.
And then we'll find out whoamong them, including, but not
limited to, John Fanning said no, this is how we're going to do
this.
You know, this is how this isgoing to play out.
Thanks for showing up, but whydon't you go outside and guard

(10:41):
the parking lot while we do ourreal police work?
So, going back to Fanningsaying you know, Matthew Farrell
is not a real detective, hecouldn't pull off something like
that.
Well, what the fuck are youFanning?

Anngelle Wood (10:53):
The evidence shows who is actually doing
police work?

Susanne Cleveland (10:57):
Who actually is?
Or is it a network of cover upand throwing away women's lives
and chalking them up to beingwhat too crazy to exist or too
inhumane to be, or too much ofan asset or resource to these
disgusting men to have anysemblance of freedom and proper

(11:20):
life?

Anngelle Wood (11:28):
for his life.
It's astounding to me that whenI read through the second half,
the part two, of the affidavitwas far worse, because that's
when you really get to the heartof what was going on really in
the mind and heart of MatthewFarwell when he was abusing this
woman and he had decided thatshe was an inconvenience because
she wanted to have this babyand he didn't want anything to

(11:51):
do with it at that point becauseshe was asking things of him,
he was forcing her into thingsfor years and then tables were
turning for him and the aspectof him feeling like she had any
leverage in the relationshipsorry, not a relationship in
their association I correctedmyself because their
interactions.

(12:11):
It wasn't ever a relationship.
Let's call it what it is.
He did not like to feel like hewas losing any quote-unquote
power or control in thisassociation that they had been
having for all of these years.
And I'm going to say it thismotherfucker couldn't handle it
All of the damage that he haddone to this young woman

(12:32):
throughout the course of heradolescence into her early adult
life.
He didn't like it, so he madethe decision that he was going
to choose for her.

Susanne Cleveland (12:43):
I would argue , and it's heartbreaking to say,
but that decision was made.
I was going through my vastpile of notes and looking for
things that stood out in termsof timeline.
When Sandra was sort of cravingfor this belonging and going
into these programs and was sortof bebopping into this
after-school activity for theExplorer program, she was

(13:09):
interacting with Matthew Farwell.
She was 12 years old when shegot a friend request from
Matthew Farwell to spend timetogether.
Beyond a seemingly innocuousthing from somebody that you
admire and look up to and wantto be like.

Anngelle Wood (13:26):
That's where the decision was made.

Susanne Cleveland (13:28):
This launch of social media being an
initiative to create morecommunity interactions and
belonging.
I'm going to go ahead and saythat was a Robert Devine joint.
Devine was the one whospearheaded all of the we'll
just not only will we includeeverybody and make you all
family, but we're going to usesocial media to make it even

(13:49):
easier and quicker and morereadily available 24-7.
We're going to be there for you24-7.
That's what that looks like.
And that is definitely able tobe corroborated.

Anngelle Wood (14:02):
if you want to go in the wayback machine, he was
brought in to grow the programand to sort of beef it up.
Wasn't that part of his role orwhat his intent was?

Susanne Cleveland (14:15):
He was responsible for the Explorers
program for quite some time, yes, and then later on, as it
started to overlap with Sandergetting involved with activities
in the Explorer program, therewas a stint that Robert Devine
was on leave for a bit, for somecontroversy that he went

(14:36):
through and was demoted.
He was ordered to really makethe Explorer program launch into
the stratosphere and becomebigger and better than what it
was.
I don't know if I would regardit as sort of his penance for
coming back and, you know, beingdemoted to patrol, but whatever

(14:59):
it was, whatever the assignmentwas, to me it was sort of the
launch of a supervillain.
He's come back.
He was able to at least save,rescue his career and get back
in there, not as the second mostpowerful person in the
department, but as a patrolman,and his gift in that was that he

(15:21):
was going to take thesepublic-facing community
initiatives and make them biggerand better and take over the
community.
With regard to the explorers,it made it so that everybody in
the community felt that theycould bring their children there
more and more.

Anngelle Wood (15:42):
Divines, did you call it controversy?
Something happened with him.
Was it marriage related?

Susanne Cleveland (15:48):
He had a relationship sort of spiral into
a controversy that involvedthis is an adult woman, so I
think it's okay to say an affairin that regard.
At least there's that it was anadult, consensual person that
got into this messy relationshipand breakup.
And Devine and his wife at somepoint or another both took out

(16:14):
harassment protection orders onthe I guess we could say
bereaved former mistress.
The third party, yes, the thirdparty.
Yes, the non-cooperative thrownaway woman.
Don't want to speak for hereither, but it all falls in the
category of throw away women.
So this controversy erupted.
It got very ugly and it turnedout that the protective order in

(16:38):
the ensuing arrest of thiswoman was actually an elaborate
lie Robert Devine set her up?

Anngelle Wood (16:46):
Did they try to make?

Susanne Cleveland (16:48):
her look like a crazy bitch, suzanne, they've
got a script for it.
They've got it all laid out.
See, here's the thing Makesomebody look like a crazy bitch
or actually escalatively turnthem into one by sheer terror
and by making a mess out oftheir whole life.
I mean, imagine you go throughthis messy breakup and you've
got a guy in power who's saying,like listen, if you're not just

(17:09):
going to go off quietly, I'mgoing to make your life a living
hell.
And he did.
I call that a tyrant.
However, it came to be thateverybody ended up knowing about
it.
Suddenly you've got the wholecommunity and the weight of
local and state law enforcementall involved because instead of
backing down and saying, ok, youknow what, we're going to go

(17:30):
ahead and adios the protectiveorder and actually give this
woman a break and we're going tomove on with our lives.
He had her arrested, put her injail and then the IA report
speaks to it a little bit betterthan I can because it's very
lengthy, but basically peoplewent into her apartment I don't
know who the people were Tookher tech.

(17:51):
She came back from jail andreported that her place had been
broken into and robbed and theysaid oh, no, no, no, that was
just us investigating, and thatwas all in a batshit crazy

(18:20):
bananas effort to try andcontort her tech usage as being
in a harassing manner, trying toframe her for things that he
was being terrorized, and thenhis wife was being harassed and
terrorized too.
Turns out it was not true, butin the midst of that
crazy-making experience she wentto jail, had her life turned

(18:41):
upside down and had the weightof local and state law
enforcement on her ass.
That had to have beenterrifying.

Anngelle Wood (18:49):
She had to pay a pretty big price for getting
involved with this man.

Susanne Cleveland (18:52):
Others have spoken with her and nobody has
permission to again, so Iwouldn't think to do that.
But she changed her name, moved, lost her job, you know,
basically had to restart herlife and but in the town, you
know, there was some somebacklash and people asking
questions and saying what areyou going to do about this?
This is out of control?

(19:13):
And the outcome was really well.
You know it was a toughsituation, got a little messy
there, but it's really a privatematter.
So we're going to go ahead andbring him back in, bring him
back down to patrolmen and we'reall going to go back to normal.
That's what the outcome was.
Who in the world knows why?
Because there was so muchdamage done and he was cited as

(19:36):
being an untruthful lawenforcement professional.
That was the outcome of hisreport, but I guess they didn't
flinch at that.
So they brought him back in.
They brought him back in andthen gave him the Explorer
program to beef up and do better.

Anngelle Wood (19:52):
That was his task to build this, make this more
successful.

Susanne Cleveland (19:57):
Yeah, I'm sure among many things, but in
my, I guess, my point of view ormy perspective that that's
where the supervillain sort ofhatched is okay, I'm back here,
but grudgingly, as a patrolmanand not the second in power, and
now I'm in charge of thecommunity and everybody's
children.

Anngelle Wood (20:19):
Is it documented?
Did he participate in sexualabuse of a?

Susanne Cleveland (20:25):
child.
There's certainly reporteddocumentation from from a later
time period, when when sandrawas an adult, and we'll leave
that there because allegedlythis is somebody who works as an
attorney he left lawenforcement and segued, went to
law school and now works as adefense attorney, right.

(20:46):
I guess, retired and iscontesting decertification to
retain pension.
And he is a lawyer.
I find it interesting If itwasn't known before I've made it
known that he swore into thebar on February 2nd 2021.

Anngelle Wood (21:07):
The day after Sandra Birchmore was killed.

Susanne Cleveland (21:13):
The day after and two days before found.
I don't know what to do withthat piece of information.
I'm just going to go ahead andleave it there.
Day after she was killed.
That's when he swore in yeah.

Anngelle Wood (21:28):
Is there a fourth player in this that has been
implicated being involved inSandra's case?

Susanne Cleveland (21:41):
Certainly, josh Heal has been a very big
conversation piece.
Yes, it is documented andadmitted to that he engaged in
misconduct with her.
His is very his is specific andlimited to his stint as an
animal control officer.
The fallout of theminvestigating his interactions

(22:07):
with her, which involves beingin the animal control office and
usage of the animal controlspace while on duty to engage in
sexually inappropriate activity, that was a big deal and got
him in a lot of trouble.
He seems to have cooperatedimmensely and provided
investigative material in orderto save his ass, I guess would
be the right way to say it.
I don't really want to letanybody off the hook for
behaving inappropriately with aperson who was clearly, even if
not a child, strugglingimmensely and going through

(22:30):
abuse and confusion andexploitation by his buddies and
somehow being invited toexchange in some I don't know
the right way to say it.
They were aware of each other'sactivities and he was aware of
the extent of their activitiesand Sandra trusted him and
confided in him to actuallyexpress some of the horrors that

(22:52):
Matthew Farwell was putting herthrough and instead of saying
you know what?
Hey, hold the phone.
Sounds like you're goingthrough a rough time, kid.
Maybe we should get you somesupport and help.
That asshole decided that hewould trade a cat for her to
perform a sex act.
I can't really let him off thehook for that, even though you

(23:14):
know, investigatively he becameless valuable at a certain point
and he's off of the civillawsuit Is he still
participating as a lawenforcement entity in some way?
Not really sure about that.
He didn't get decertified whenhe moved from animal control to

(23:36):
go join the police force inAbington.
He became an Abington policeofficer.
They didn't really enjoy thelook of his, the outcome of his
internal investigation, so theylet him go.
So he's.
He left that job.
But that doesn't mean that he'sdecertified.
It doesn't mean that he can't,you know, reinvent himself in

(23:58):
another obscure place withanother backstory, because they
don't.
If you cooperate to a certaindegree, they don't just take
away your ability to be a cop.
The only thing I can'tconclusively say what Abington
police decided, but theycertainly decided that he wasn't
a good look.

Anngelle Wood (24:18):
I'm on this page crimetimelinescom.

Susanne Cleveland (24:22):
Crime Timelines did an amazing job and
it continues to add to thattimeline in a very prolific and
accurate manner.
Nothing's perfect, I'm surethat I'm not nailing it, but yes
, it's very comprehensive and itis as close to the piles of
information that I have around,damn near memorizing because it

(24:44):
seems important.

Anngelle Wood (24:45):
It's incredible and I've only spent a small
amount of time going throughhere, but there is the apartment
complex video surveillancewhere Matthew Farwell is seen
entering and exiting.
There's information about thefirst autopsy report, the second
autopsy report by Dr Bodden,the third autopsy report by Dr

(25:06):
Smock, her death certificate.
It's incredibly thorough, anincredible amount of work and
research and resources that areavailable to people to get a
real idea or a realunderstanding of what's gone on.

Susanne Cleveland (25:23):
Well, yeah, I mean in case anybody is puzzled
, in case anybody doesn't get ityet, in case anybody is
confused, it's a really goodresource.
It's also a good resource tounderstand the problematic
nature of a program such asExplorers.
Not that everyone is like this,angela.

(25:44):
I'm losing grasp on what thissort of larger law enforcement
nationwide chiefs of police ofAmerica, that organization,
whatever the acronym is, I can'tgrasp it, but they have
terminology and language thataddresses the fact that they
acknowledge that law enforcementin and of itself provides an
opportunity for coercion andsexual misconduct to exist at a

(26:08):
level that they don't have agrasp on.
You couple that with the factthat the Explorer Program adds
yet another opportunity forcoercive control and sexual
misconduct.

Anngelle Wood (26:21):
But with children .
The Explorer program was anationwide program.
Is that correct?

Susanne Cleveland (26:28):
It is.
It might be a worldwide program, but I think whatever the
version of it that exists hereis an offshoot, I would say an
abomination, of Boy Scouts ofAmerica, Boy Scouts of America.
Abomination of Boy Scouts ofAmerica, Boy Scouts of America,
like the Catholic Church,already it was, already had its

(26:52):
scars, already had its marks onit.
So the Explorers was born outof that program, More of a more
as a publicity.
Change the look, change thechange the language.
Clean it up, let's.
Let's make it into somethingdifferent, so that nobody gets
hung up on the stigma of the BoyScout title.
But that doesn't mean that theynecessarily changed how it
operates.

Anngelle Wood (27:10):
It seems like on the surface.
You know that goodwill gesture,right, that political thing.
You know cops are shaking handsand kissing babies and all of
the happy thoughts that peoplewant to believe goes on in the
inner workings of police forces.
But over the last number ofyears we've been able to pull
that curtain aside to see someof the inner workings and it is
very grim.

Susanne Cleveland (27:31):
Well, and I mean and it should be, you know,
to your point a safe space anda positive community atmosphere
and a way to bring adults andchildren, you know, together in
a healthy, constructive way.
But it requires oversight andmanagement and regulation and
rules like you don't roll aroundone-on-one in a car with nobody

(27:55):
else around, something that isrepeatedly violated.
There are aspects of it that,if unchecked, obviously run amok
.
That again, that's a wholeother episode.
Going over other example casesof explorer programs in other
states and regions that havegone nightmarishly awry.
And we have those examples.

(28:16):
But yet still here we arethinking everything's fine here,
right, the child's not sayinganything because they're really
responsible for their ownwell-being.
Right, going back to you sayingthis arrested development with
Sandra and without wildlyspeculating if the relationship
with these men began at thatonset at 12 years old, that's

(28:39):
where the decision was made,that's where development was no
longer possible as a thrivingyoung woman enjoying life and
going through the normal hiccupsand growing pains that
adolescents should.
And it's devastating to thinkthat she didn't get to.
I don't want to just throw thisin there because it was one of

(29:01):
those holy shit moments when Iwas reading the affidavit that
she didn't go to her prombecause she was catering.

Anngelle Wood (29:09):
She was making herself available to this
predator.

Susanne Cleveland (29:13):
Yes, that's one of those devastating details
.
That is just very difficult.

Anngelle Wood (29:18):
This is an honest feeling that and this is not in
any way shape or form blamingSandra for anything that
happened to other young womenhad had in those that period in

(29:47):
their life.

Susanne Cleveland (29:48):
But that doesn't mean that she didn't
give it her level best.
I mean there was so much try andeffort and tenacity when you
think about everything that shedid with her way too short life
and the amount of energy thatshe put into getting her
education and in various jobs.

(30:09):
She was a very hard-working,very smart girl who was
constantly trying to betterherself and was very caring to
other people and involved inother involved in self-defense
classes.
You know, loved animals.
She did have.
She did have something of alife outside of this, of course
she did.

(30:29):
But imagine being somebody whoworks that hard and is and is
plugging along trying to get,get an education, showing up for
a school, I imagine, probablyearly 7.30, 8 in the morning and
giving love and energy and careto the students and everybody
around her, as well as studyingon almost no sleep.
Because after eight hours, ninehours of work and then taking

(30:54):
classes and trying to take careof yourself when you've got a
growing baby or you're just sortof grasping the reality of that
situation, you're being keptawake and terrorized by a man
and or men who want somethingfrom you.

Anngelle Wood (31:13):
They wanted her to be available at their beck
and call.

Susanne Cleveland (31:16):
Having read the reports you know they went
to great pains to show thepattern and the succession of
this communication and thedemand.
It's really unspeakable.
But think about that.
You picture the daytime, theloving, the smiling, the happy,
caring there for everybody,sandra, and having to switch

(31:37):
gears into this nightmare thatdidn't seem like a nightmare to
her.

Anngelle Wood (31:43):
Yeah, I see her as having actually an incredible
level of success, given theemotional rollercoaster, some of
the emotional things that sheexperienced.
You know she lost loved ones ina rapid succession, three
people that were really, reallyimportant to her.

(32:03):
Yet she was working for theSharon School District, Clearly
a very successful job, a veryrespectable job.
She was a teacher's assistant.
She had her own apartment.
She had recently, within a fewmonths time, moved into the
Canton apartment on her own.
She was living there by herself.
She was doing quite well andshe was planning if she had not

(32:27):
started nursing school yet, shewas in the stages of whatever
the prep was to get into nursingschool.
She had plans.

Susanne Cleveland (32:35):
She had hopes and dreams.
She was working hard towardsthem and was trying to carve out
her place in the world byhaving a family after having
lost those closest to her andthinking you know, this is it's
in the language that she uses.
It's tough to go back to thosemessages because I see a lot of
that communication being in aheadspace of possibly trauma and

(33:00):
it doesn't exist as actualizedtrauma because she didn't get an
opportunity to figure that outand address it and heal and move
on from this ongoing abusebecause it never stopped, there
wasn't any break from it.
It working against, I guess wecould say mental and emotional.
What's the name of the personwith the rock Prometheus?

(33:23):
I always get that one wrong.
You know pushing that uphilland getting, not just getting
through the day-to-day, but youknow being a functional person
and being a caretaker and beingdevoted to your friends, being
devoted to the children in yourclassroom.
It's not like she wassleepwalking through life.
She was giving it all the tryimaginable and also trying to

(33:47):
get help.
You know seeing somebody andthere is this sort of really
delicate process of sussing outwith somebody who's going
through what Sandra was goingthrough.
You can't just, you know, gointo a therapy session and say,
hey, we're going to get you outof this.
You have to get somebody to apart of some type of safety or

(34:11):
feeling that they're valuableenough to ask for help.
And we had those forces workingagainst that with her
constantly.
And despite that you thinkyou're going to be free, you
think you're able to do what youwant.
You think you're going to getone up on me.
Well, guess what?
No, you're not.

Anngelle Wood (34:31):
And despite that, how her life ended is the
saddest part of all, of course,but despite all of these
challenges, she was doingremarkably well outside of that
very traumatic association shehad with these men she was.
I hope that she knew that shewas doing well.

(34:53):
I hope that she was proud andrecognized that.
I know that she was in therapy.
I know that she was beingtreated with.
She was on medication I don'tremember what she was using.

Susanne Cleveland (35:02):
Oh, it was Sertraline.
It's an antidepressant.
I can speak from experience onthis so I can say it safely.
It's one that is probablydeemed the most safe by an OBGYN
.
So if you're on a maintenanceplan for keeping yourself in
check and you're in care, it'sjust you know, I call it putting

(35:24):
that proverbial raincoat overthe puddle so you can get over
type of medication.
So that demonstrated an effortto be well and stay well, and
particularly for the new lifethat was developing.
You saw that in the reports.
She was trying.
She was taking care of herself,doing better, cutting coffee,

(35:45):
changing her diet, verydedicated to making sure that
this baby was healthy and andthat everything was going to be
okay.
And in that due process, maybegetting a little stronger, maybe
getting a little bit moreself-assured to say you know
what, maybe I can be okaywithout this asshole.
Yeah, maybe, maybe you can dothis or that, or you know, watch

(36:06):
me on FaceTime open gifts withyour child.
That you're.
That you won't acknowledge.
But she was choosing to do iton her own and was trying to
find a way to do it.

Anngelle Wood (36:16):
I would like to think that had she been able to
do that, because of the shiftingemotion she would have had with
that child and it's tragic tosay this because it's what will
never be that baby that shewanted so very much that she
would have been able to get newor renewed strength to move on

(36:44):
in her life, away from thistrauma and this abuse that she
had.

Susanne Cleveland (36:48):
Sometimes that's how that happens is
through motherhood.
Is that again, speaking frompersonal experience, when my
daughter came into the world andI was recovering from an unsafe
situation, everything changed,Everything shifted.
This purpose, this other littleperson that you live for and
with, brings you new meaning andstrength that you never knew,

(37:11):
you imagined.
Now Sandra felt this meaningand purpose and love and
rejuvenation very early on,which tells me that it was
really powerful.
Not everybody is in touch withtheir maternal energy that early
on.
She wanted it and everybodyknew.
I mean, as far as her friendsand family and loved ones who

(37:36):
speak of her, they knew that itmattered to her and that she was
trying to make a go of it andthat she was very happy about
having a baby.
They were pushing back on theselaw enforcement agents pushing
back on that.
Wait, no, there's no way thatshe could have died by suicide.
She wanted to be here.
She wanted this baby.

(37:56):
Can you guys maybe I don't knowlook under the hood a little
bit more, maybe check out a fewmore things?
No, no, no, Just bitches, justbe like that.
Nothing, they didn't evenflinch.
It breaks my heart to thinkthat it just gets thrown under
that.
The rug of basically making ither fault that her life ended

(38:16):
the way that it did.

Anngelle Wood (38:18):
That she is somehow responsible for that,
that she is somehow responsiblefor that, and to speak to her
having the baby and wanting verymuch to be a mother, and the
emotional reward and all of thethings that would have come from
it for her how she was going toexplain who fathered the baby,
whereas the father.
She must have been planningsome sort of own way to explain
to people.

Susanne Cleveland (38:42):
To the point of those who were in her life.
They were willing to embraceand support her.
It did, which just adds to thedevastation.

Anngelle Wood (38:46):
And they knew of this relationship for quite a
while.

Susanne Cleveland (38:50):
Some knew I can't speak for them.
I mean, you see it in some ofthe conversations that are
documented that they know of therelationship and that they were
maybe uneasy about thelogistics of it, but there
wasn't anything that pointedtowards anyone being
unsupportive.
Everybody wanted what Sandrawanted.
They wanted her to be safe andhappy and healthy.

(39:12):
And you know, damn it, if thisis how it's going to be, then
we're going to love you and thisbaby.
There's a way to exist withthat reality.
There's a way to exist withthat that reality.
There's a way to exist and whenyou, when your family or when
your friends or your loved ones,and you know, okay, it's, it's
an unusual, it's a, it's anunconventional situation, but
this is about sander birchmorneor baby.

(39:34):
This isn't about like, we'llwork, we'll figure out a way to
work around you you know theorigin story.
You, at least, are supposed toget to have the origin story of
your own.
You know, separate from thenightmare, but that dichotomy of
her being happy and beingenergetic and hardworking.

(39:55):
No one could have known thedepth of what was going on with
this man, these men, becausethat's part of the process,
that's part of grooming andgaslighting and isolation and
the torment of causing somebodylike Sandra Birchmore to sort of
be at their behest and figureout a way to lead this dual life

(40:18):
where you do all the things,don't let anybody know, you push
it, you know, you keep it asecret and you're obligated to.
I mean, the very definition ofcoercive control when it comes
to physical relationships ofthis ilk is that there's a
threatening and intimidation anda process that goes on, that

(40:41):
desensitizes to the horror thatyou're experiencing, so that
when you're outwardly facingwith everybody else you don't
talk about it.
It normalizes it and it's partof it, and early on.
Compartmentalize as well.
Compartmentalize, yes, which isscary, but to add to that you're
dealing with somebody with agun, you're dealing with

(41:04):
somebody who is in control thesafety and protection of the
community.
What could be more isolatingthan that is that if you do
decide, hey, you know what, thisdoesn't feel safe to me.
I want to get out of this Thenthe person you call is that guy.
How do we cope with thatreality?
How do we cope with the factthat already is already enough,

(41:27):
that that Sandra Birchmore losther life to this nightmare, but
that there could still be othervictims who who need to be
brought to safety from thefallout of their situations
because, at the very least,they're still alive to do so,
and that's something that needsto be embraced and I guess we
could say fortified a safety net, put around everybody to say,

(41:50):
okay, we know, we know what'sgoing on and it's okay to come
forward and talk about it,because you've been through a
lot of these, these case studies, so you know about the history
of the Catholic Church and theBoy Scouts and the reality, the
stark reality, is they'reprocessing trauma and actually
telling a story doesn't comefrom many, many years.

Anngelle Wood (42:13):
Legislative advocacy is so very important
because you know really, as I'velearned, the average age of
someone who has experiencedsexual abuse or, you know, child
sexual abuse in this case is50s 50 years of age, and the
statute of limitations isusually for a lot of these folks
closed, which is so incrediblyunfair.

Susanne Cleveland (42:35):
Well, and that's that, and that's if
you're alive, and that's if youhaven't succumbed to years,
years of substance abuse or youknow whatever other coping
mechanisms are used to to getthrough something like a normal
life.
There are a lot of variables toit, but but she's, you know,
unfortunately Sandra's not evenhere to have that option, but

(42:57):
those who would have been in hertime frame and in this program
and under the care I can't saycare of these men would be my
daughter's age.
You know would be, you know, intheir late 20s, early, I guess,
late 20s, early 30s.
If you're talking about thespan of this program under these

(43:19):
men, of this program underthese men, I would find it hard
to believe that of the 300 thatRobert Devine espouses to have
gone through his program, thatshe's the only.
We obviously know aboutSandra's story and we know of
one other story that was toldthat was a sort of near miss,
that this person struggles withtremendous survivor's guilt

(43:40):
about, you know, having a closecall of this ilk.
Those are only two stories outof the 300.

Anngelle Wood (43:48):
A couple of things You're incredibly
compassionate and empatheticabout, not just this case but so
many others, because we've hadconversations.
You are a driving force behindjustice for Sandra Birchmore and
I'm curious what your otherconversations are like with
other creators.
Do they want to be as focusedon Sandra and the person that

(44:11):
she was and the things that shehad accomplished?

Susanne Cleveland (44:14):
I would answer it two ways.
You know, some of those things,some of the nitty gritty, some
of the details we sort of, wesort of have to address because
otherwise the conversation isjust one big parenthetical
insert and it's, you know,there's no comprehension.
So there's an extent of it thatwe need to know in order to get
the magnitude and the gravityof the situation.

(44:36):
But then there's a kind of hardstop about dwelling on or
staying in the nightmare fuelaspect of it, and the nightmare
fuel aspect of it also lendsitself to questioning what
Sandra could have donedifferently.
And I'm going to spell this outhard and fast right now and say

(44:58):
that if anybody has thatquestion, they really need to
think about the fact that in anyof these situations where
somebody whose life wasdestroyed, taken down and
inevitably ended, who sufferedthat kind of egregious abuse,
the only one who's to blame andin this case the only ones to
blame are the predatorial,abusive motherfuckers that did

(45:20):
it, not somebody who didn'tunderstand how the process works
, not a parent who is strugglingwith their own division of
effort and actually thinkingthat their child was safe.
That's not valuable to entertainthat topic.
But what I'm finding is thatthe other creators have been
pretty open to learning aboutthe terminology about grooming,

(45:45):
coercive control and like howdid we get here?
And let's talk about how to getthese guys and let's help the
public understand.
And yeah, there's going to besome crime story in there.
There's going to be some ofthat who's who and was it
Fanning and compared to Proctor,and you're going to have that
because it's the only way tokeep the attention in the room,

(46:07):
but there is definitely awillingness to learn and
understand so that we're havinggoing forward.

Anngelle Wood (46:13):
I do think about reading these documents and I do
think about how this trial isgoing to play out.
You know, the fact of thematter is it's all laid out for

(46:34):
us Matthew Farwell.
He was planning this in such away that is so despicable.
He asked Sandra for a key toher apartment.

Susanne Cleveland (46:44):
They did discuss it at the onset of her
getting the apartment and hesaid basically no, screw, that,
it's your thing, it's not mine.
I don't want that.
I don't want the possibility ofgetting caught.
So he dismissed it no, I'm allset.
I'll let you know when I needsomething from you.

Anngelle Wood (47:01):
We're in control again.
What stood out to me among allof these very egregious things,
as you have so eloquently laidout for us, is the premeditation
in the code to the door of theapartment.
He wanted the general code.
To be absolutely frank, Ididn't know there was a

(47:22):
difference between a generalcode and a personal residence
code.
He did not want sandra'spersonal code, he wanted the
general code so he could somehowcover his ass that they'd never
the traceability they'd nevertraceability.

Susanne Cleveland (47:42):
These guys know about intricacies of these
types of keypad programs and the.
What do you call that?
The law enforcement one?
The Avaglon system?
Yes, or to know where somebodyis at any given time to

(48:08):
understand crimes beingcommitted, but using it to kill
a young pregnant woman who is,for whatever reason that we'll
never understand, completelyloyal and trusting and thinks
that you want to be there forher.

Anngelle Wood (48:23):
She thought he was coming around for her.
She thought he was comingaround and meanwhile he was just
casing her place and figuringout how he could try to make
this the quote unquote perfectmurder, because that's really
what he was hoping for.

Susanne Cleveland (48:36):
It's beyond betrayal.
I don't know, I don't know ifthere's a betrayal time it's
evil.

Anngelle Wood (48:40):
Quite frankly, it's evil to me.

Susanne Cleveland (48:43):
Yeah, there aren't really enough synonyms
for evil that fit in thisscenario, but if there were a
million more synonyms for evil,I would give it to the guys who
dismissively wrote this case offas just another suicidal,
deceased, crazy, messy, pregnantyoung woman.

(49:03):
How dare they, honestly, howdare they honestly, how dare
they?
Yes, and at this point, thepublic, of course.
We feel the way that we feelbecause we're embedded in this
case.
You know our loved ones, familysupporters, people from the
community who have been outthere with signs saying wait,
what happened to our poor girl?
You know, there's, there's, wehave that.

(49:25):
But now the general public isstarting to go.
I'm sorry, what the actual fuckwere you guys doing in
conjunction with arriving to thescene?
And you're what?
Yes, and when you think aboutthe fact that the investigators
and I don't want to createdividing lines between those who

(49:47):
are complicit because they'resimply don't know what's going
on and because, like I said, youknow, with the crime scene
where the guy in charge comes in, he's already on the phone,
with the DA's office, alreadyspinning the wheels and says go
guard the hallway.
You know, to the guys who werefirst on scene, I don't know how

(50:07):
to suss out.
You know which ones are, theones who are just okay.
Well, we really can't buck upagainst the administration or
the powers that be, because wedon't want to be lose our jobs
or be retaliated against or putthrough some type of threat or
just are clueless.
Perhaps there is an element ofineptitude and cluelessness, but

(50:28):
I don't want to let any of youoff the hook.
If any of you were nearby,adjacent to or even marginally
thought differently about howthat scene played out, there's
got to be a devotion to duty toexpose that and to put this to
an end, including the two otherbad guys that are still very

(50:50):
much out there.
That's very unsettling to methat they're still out there.
Anybody who is close enough to Imean okay, so we've got Matthew
Farwell.
That's a start.
I believe it was Sandra'scousin who said in an interview
with Channel 10 News said thatthe arc of justice is finally
starting to curve towards orslant towards, sandra, and it

(51:14):
was just such a poetic way tosay it.
It's a beautiful thing to sayand there was more to it.
I just don't want to get it, Idon't want to bungle it.
That arc of justice leaningtowards?
Okay, but we're not done by amile, because anybody who even
bungled part of it and allowedthis to continue for 3.5 years.

(51:35):
Y'all need to check yourselvesand figure your shit out real
quick.

Anngelle Wood (51:39):
We think that the Karen Reed case.
So we had a mistrial and Icalled that.
Unfortunately, I saw thatcoming Anybody who's listened to
the show and anything that I'vesaid about Karen Reed.
I never got involved in thecase as deeply as so many other
people did.
I wanted to see the right thinghappen.

(52:01):
I don't know what the answer is.
I don't know if we're evergoing to find out really what
happened to John.

Susanne Cleveland (52:20):
O'Keefe on that night.
Givings are about the KarenReid trial or that situation.
Whether guilty or innocent,whatever your opinion is, it's
more important to know howegregiously they fucked up that
investigation and how much theybetrayed both of both parties
all parties involved because ofthe fact that they didn't do

(52:41):
their job.
So, whether she did or didn't,it's relevant.
Of course it's relevant, butthat's why we have a justice
system so that you actually dothe work, so that you build the
case, so that you get the badguy or girl and you make it
right.

Anngelle Wood (52:56):
I should be able to prove it.
We should be able to prove itone way or the other.

Susanne Cleveland (53:00):
Yes, you should be able to prove it.
And now here we have, in starkcontrast to that in Sandra
Birchmore's case, an absurdamount of evidence pointing
towards a litany of terriblecriminal behavior in this case
and ultimately her murder.
And they still didn't do theirjobs.

Anngelle Wood (53:23):
I made reference to the Reed trial to say you
thought that was huge.
I can see this case far welland if other people are
implicated, whether they'rearrested.

(53:44):
Whether they're charged, whetherthey're tried, whether they're
convicted, isn't up for us tosay yet.
I mean, time will certainlytell.
But I do believe that this casewill be and I'm not saying this
gleefully, it is a murder.
It's a young woman who was thevictim of abuse at the hands of

(54:12):
police officers for years.
And because people's interestwe're human beings, the general
nature of our curiosity when itcomes to things like this it
will be very big and I reallyhope, if we haven't learned
anything, we begin to learnsomething.
As the Commonwealth ofMassachusetts, we have no
control over what happensanywhere else, in any other

(54:33):
state in the country, but wereally have to look at what's
happening in Massachusetts inthe offices of the attorneys
general and law enforcement.
It starts at the top, comes allthe way down.

Susanne Cleveland (54:46):
We really need to find out Well and to
your point about we have theCommonwealth to deal with.
Well, apparently we couldn't.
And we didn't because the FBIand Josh Levy had to step in and
say, okay, y'all move aside,because you're done fucked up,
like you just said.
And not only that, like youcould see it, I realized that

(55:11):
it's it's not my purview tospeak towards, you know, law
enforcement on that level.
But you could see it in hisface the the level of anguish
about how egregiously theyoffensively dropped the ball in
pursuing Matthew Farwell at thevery least.
And he, you could see it in hisface.

(55:31):
We're not quite done yet, westill have a lot more to do here
.
But he can't speak to thatbecause you can only speak with
what you have concretelydropping in that indictment.
And man did he drop it with asonic boom, including flashbangs
, in order to get him out of hisdump truck, which is I don't
think I've ever experienced thatin watching a case like this

(55:56):
unfold in my time inMassachusetts, have you?

Anngelle Wood (55:58):
seen something like that.
I cannot say that I have, andto see how that played out like
that is a bit terrifying.
The case has warranted that.
It's terrible to see how thatplayed out like that is a bit
terrifying.
The case has warranted that.
It's terrible that it took thatlong.

Susanne Cleveland (56:11):
In other cases where we didn't quite have
the knowledge that we did.
When you see the bells andwhistles of the SWAT team and
all that you know, all thatinsanity unfold, you think.
Is it over the top?
Was that for show?
Was that for optics?
In this case, you understandwhat a horror of a human being
he really was.
He's still alive, he is, butthe level of danger and the

(56:35):
level of planning that they hadto incur in order to safely
apprehend him.
So Josh Levy was very clearabout the fact that it was
relatively new to them for themto come in as they did, but they
still had to pick the day, hadto pick the environment, had to,
in broad daylight in a crowdedparking lot, orchestrate an

(56:57):
arrest like that because of howdangerous this man was.
I'll say he's not as dangerousbecause he's in a cage right now
.

Anngelle Wood (57:06):
They had to be privy to information about the
likelihood of this guy openingfire.

Susanne Cleveland (57:13):
There doesn't seem to be any limit.
I say it in this hyperbolic way, all the king's horses and all
the king's men, because of howdramatic that was and it's
harrowing to see that it had togo down like that.
But you know how it wouldn'thave had to go down like that Is
you did your fucking jobs inthe first place at that moment,
at that time.

Anngelle Wood (57:34):
When did the internal investigation?
I don't.
It's in front of me but I don'tknow.

Susanne Cleveland (57:37):
The internal investigation dropped September
2022.
That's when it was announcedthat they had exacted out the
problem that led to SandraBirchmore's suicide.

Anngelle Wood (57:50):
He's responsible for what she did to herself.

Susanne Cleveland (57:53):
Wrong he did it to her.
So we're still in the realm ofthe power of the Karen Reid case
.
We're still back in thatwheelhouse of the framing,
blaming and shaming of women,and that is a huge problem.
So framing one woman okay, atleast she's alive, has a team to

(58:15):
fight for herself, and as wellas she should.
That's what everybody has aright to do.
But this goes to the point offraming for being responsible
for her own death.
Again, just framing, blaming,shaming of women.
It seems to be the mantra ofthis DA's office at least, and

(58:36):
certainly these law enforcementprofessionals associated with
this case, because not one hasset apart and said hey, wait a
minute, guys, this doesn't lookright.
They had a loved one say whatabout this necklace?
They had a loved one say whatabout this necklace?
And they're like huh, I mean,it's just, it's messy here, the

(58:58):
cats are running around, it'swhat you know.
She went crazy.

Anngelle Wood (59:02):
So disconcerting to know that this has been, as
you say, three and a half yearsof hoping, waiting, anticipating
.
Will it happen?
And here we are.
I mean we've got a long way togo and I really want to know
this is an honest question toanybody who are the people who
are serving and protecting?

(59:22):
Serving and protecting becausewe're not getting a very good.
It's not a good look.

Susanne Cleveland (59:26):
We're not having you're not fostering a
lot of faith and trust.
Well, I do want to address thatbecause this obviously is
coming up a lot recently.
But these quote unquote men didwhat they did and pulled the
wool over the eyes of an entirecommunity.
I would argue that they abusedthe entire community.

(59:50):
Although our focus is on whatthey did to Santa Birchmore and
her baby, they still tookadvantage of and abused and
betrayed the safety and trust oftheir entire community in doing
so.
The collateral damage and theripple effect and the we could
just call it trauma of everybodywho is adjacent to her story or

(01:00:13):
wants to feel safe where theylive and feel safe sending their
children to local programs Imean, we don't have this one
anymore, but that's a lot.
That's a lot for everybody toprocess.
I did ask this question of atown official recently what are
you doing to help your communityheal, or what are you doing to
assure your community and theparents and the children within

(01:00:36):
it?
Now, it's not that it's notimportant how you're assuring
the legacy and the honor ofSanta Birchmore's life to her
family.
Of course it is.
But what about everybody else?
What are you doing to shore upthis obviously broken system in
your town, because how could itnot be?

(01:00:56):
And that's a really bigquestion that couldn't be
answered.
I'll just leave that there.
But I also broached thequestion of so you have the rest
of the law enforcement agency,who is the ones who are
honorable and wanted to do theright thing and actually
couldn't prevent this fromhappening, and are maybe

(01:01:19):
suffering through.
I don't know what the version ofsurvivor's guilt is exactly
with law enforcement officials,but it's kind of a separate
issue.
But the dissension in the ranksand that unsettled feeling
amongst them can't be good fortheir mental health.
No, how do they feel safe toactually go about the business
of protecting and serving ifthese guys are still there

(01:01:41):
looking over their shoulder,facing whether or not to
confront about their misdeedsand facing either eminent danger
or retaliation or discipline bytheir superiors because you
can't do that and get it wrong?
It's important to know that youcan't do it and get it wrong,
and you maybe can't do itbecause somebody is stopping you

(01:02:04):
from doing so, but still haveto try and protect and serve
under terrifying circumstances.
That can't be good for thesafety of the officers involved
and it's going to take a lot ofI think I feel like someone else
should know this better than Iwould a lot of work and effort
and intervention from outsideprofessionals, maybe other

(01:02:26):
agencies, maybe some kind ofpsychological support to bring
these officers back so that theycan heal and protect and serve.
I don't know the fear of, Idon't even know what the fear
looks like.

Anngelle Wood (01:02:40):
There's so many implications for me we can look
at you know, the last severalyears about police misconduct
and defunding and all of thesethings.
I want to call the police in mylocal neighborhood and I want
them to help me and I want tofeel like they want to help me.
This happened with StoughtonPolice Department, because this

(01:03:08):
is all on their watch and Idon't know if they have done
this, but they should have comeout with a statement and a plan
to counter this horrible,unlawful, illegal, felonious,
embarrassing situation thathappens with a plan in place
saying this is what we're goingto do.
We're going to get mentalhealth, we're going to address

(01:03:33):
this head-on, we're going to sayno more.

Susanne Cleveland (01:03:34):
I don't know that they've ever done that,
aside from this situation withthese three, um, their three
brothers awful as it is to haveto say it in that context, they
were part of this force together.
That can't be easy to overcome,and I mean our job as civilians

(01:03:55):
in trying to heal and encouragejustice for Santa Bertramore
doesn't concern with themgetting better, but it should be
for their chief, it should befor town managers to figure out
how to fix their, their brokenpolice force.

Anngelle Wood (01:04:13):
They should want to change the perception of law
enforcement in every town, city,state, city, state.
Collectively.
They should all want to changethat perception because we've
been struggling with this byourselves Boston and the
Commonwealth but looking atBoston, all of the

(01:04:35):
ridiculousness with the crookedcops in Boston and the FBI
letting Whitey Bulger murderpeople at will I mean we have a
bad, bad history.

Susanne Cleveland (01:05:00):
We do have a bad, bad history with which
there's no real effort to findjustice for a woman victim.
It seems like a really high barto get from that to where
you're referring to.
It got really, really bad, andit's not that I wasn't paying
attention when it was.
you know, drugs and racketeeringand all that of course, but the

(01:05:23):
image of poor Sandra and thepromise of her young life being
taken and how they handled it,that's not going to go away
anytime soon for me.
But the only thing that can bedone is to push back on it and
say you know what?
We're not accepting this, we'renot going to deal with this
shit anymore.
You all need to change this andit is working.

(01:05:44):
I don't know if that's theright word for it.
There's starting to be a chainof events that they can't look
away from us and they can't lookaway from the picture of Sandra
that we're holding up as theygo to their events.
You know another fundraiser tocelebrate the career of the DA
who has allowed this to happenunder his watch the career of

(01:06:07):
the DA who has allowed this tohappen under his watch.

Anngelle Wood (01:06:13):
It's that kind of predatory behavior of the
throwaways which I don't look atanybody as a throwaway, but
it's that predatory behaviorthat has been a part of the
grooming that we know about thecriminal mindset where they go
after these people that theyfeel like nobody cares about.
If I kill a sex worker, noone's going to care, which is
untrue.

Susanne Cleveland (01:06:32):
They're also going for somebody who is caring
and vulnerable, just in a wayof admiration, and maybe looking
for a breach in the system, adeath or a tragedy that makes
somebody actually entrust intheir care To deal with the
shock factor and the nittygritty of those insidious
details.
It's more to understand, payattention to that stark contrast

(01:06:56):
between the outward facingperson for whom it's really
really important to be alonewith your children, one and two.
Anything in the behavior thatmight be shifting that seems
like it can't be explained.

Anngelle Wood (01:07:13):
I'm sure this is a resounding thing among all of
the folks and the support andthe advocates that are part of
Justice, for Sandra.
Birchmore is no more.
Birchmore is no more, not onemore, and you cannot look away

(01:07:36):
from what we know happened tothis young woman and by whom.
This is a great deal ofemotional labor for you.
I hope that you find comfortand camaraderie among the
supporters that you have beenworking with so very closely
throughout these.
This case has gone on for anumber of years and I know that
you've developed some reallystrong relationships and bonds
with these people.
I want all of you to know howimportant that this really is,

(01:08:00):
that advocacy, work like thiswork that you are doing and the
advocacy that I'm learning.
They say that why do you do it?
It's compassion and empathy,but it's rewarding to make a
difference, even if it is just asmall one, and it's being the
voice for somebody who no longerhas a voice.

Susanne Cleveland (01:08:19):
Through service, there is healing.
That's the nature of the biz,so to speak, the biz that
doesn't in any way pay, but paysin knowing that maybe somebody
is feeling a little bitcomforted and maybe a little bit
safer because you're saying,hey, we're not going to let this
go, we're going to help you.

Anngelle Wood (01:08:48):
And that there's an interest.
And there are a lot of crimes,unfortunately, but I want to
make sure that I am on the goodside of this, that I am one of
those people.
That is part of delivering thatmessage that there is good that
can come out of something soterrible.
And, yes, there will be thepeople who want the dirt and the
nitty gritty and break downevery single thing that happened
and play by plays and all ofthose things, and unfortunately,

(01:09:11):
that's never going to go away.
As long as this is a viablemedium for people to decipher
all of this and take it, I trulybelieve we can use the powers
of true crime for good, andyou're a wonderful example of
that.
And you're a wonderful exampleof that.

Susanne Cleveland (01:09:24):
Well, thank you for saying that.
I'm humbled.
I'm humbled by that.
But you know, empathic truecrime is distinct from the
greater, I guess, the world oftrue crime.
Empathic true crime is its kindof own entity, I feel, and it
is a labor of love, a weirdlabor of love.

(01:09:45):
But here we are, you know.

Anngelle Wood (01:09:47):
You really have truly been extraordinary, and I
know that people recognize that,and I just want to thank you
for spending so much time withme.
We can't just be apathetichuman beings that just go day to
day and not care about anything.
That's not the way we should be.

Susanne Cleveland (01:10:05):
That's not the way we should be.
That's not humanity, no, and wecan make it a little softer,
like less agonizing for somebodywho is trying to understand
this case.
That's what makes theconversations last longer is
trying to find a delivery thatsomeone can live with in a
situation that is unlivable,towards the common goal of
healing and prevention andawareness and in honoring Sandra

(01:10:29):
Birchmore's life.

Anngelle Wood (01:10:39):
Thank you so much , suzanne Clevelands of Justice
for Sandra Birchmore.
There is a website.
There is a Facebook groupJustice for Sandra Birchmore.
There is a website.
There is a Facebook groupJustice for Sandra Birchmore.
I posted all the links in theshow notes at Crime of the
Chewest Kind on the episode page.
That also includes resources tohelp and support for you or

(01:11:06):
anyone you know that might beexperiencing abuse of any kind
and those very longinvestigative reports like the
internal investigation 60 pagesand the 45-page indictment of
Matthew Farwell all there.
This story will continue forquite some time.

(01:11:29):
Matthew Farwell will face ajudge and jury.
My guess is sometime in 2025.
It remains to be seen whathappens with these other players
.
They have been publicly namedas participants, at the very

(01:11:50):
least, in the abuse of SandraBirchmore.
Thank you for listening.
My name is Anngelle Wood.
This is Crime of the TruestKind, Massachusetts and New
England crime stories.
A little bit of history,minimal snark, sometimes some

(01:12:12):
swear words.
If you have a case you want totell me about, email at
crimeofthetruestkind at gmailcom.
I have a number of interviewsthat I have done.
For future episodes I amscheduling additional episodes
If there's something you want meto know about or someone you
think that I should speak to.

(01:12:33):
Please reach out.
Next live show Thursday, October10th, north Shore Crime Cases
by request at Off Cabot inBeverly, Massachusetts.
Tickets are on sale.
Linked atcrimeofthetruestkindcom.
Also linked on all my socialpages and my link tree.
There's a lot of linkage thatgoes on with operating a podcast

(01:12:56):
.
I'll tell you that You've askedme about doing crime trivia.
I will work that into the showon the 10th in a respectful way
it's possible, and we will do aQ&A because there are other
cases that you want to talkabout and I will oblige.
Otis says hi.

(01:13:16):
All the doggy kids say hello.
I must be going.
Lock your goddamn doors.
We'll be you next time.