Steve Delashmit - Leaning Into Faith And Proclaiming Truth With Grace

Steve writes: "Reverend Steve Delashmit and Faye Delashmit have five children, twelve grandchildren, three great grandchildren and share a love for music, travel, and the Lord.  I was born a Cumberland Presbyterian and have served churches in Kentucky and Tennessee for 44 years. I am currently serving the New Hope Cumberland Presbyterian Church in Lebanon, Tennessee and look forward to many years of ministry to come."

Music is provided by Pierce Murphy, Caldera Blue. 
Source:  https://www.freemusicarchive.org/music/Pierce_Murphy/through-the-olive-branches/caldera-blue
Comments: http://freemusicarchive.org/
Additional comments:  modifications made to shorten and loop song for introduction and closing of podcast.
Copyright Attribution and License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

Episode Transcript

T.J. (00:03):
You're listening to the Cumberland Road, and I'm your
host, TJ Milinoski. Thefollowing is a faith journey
with Reverend Steve Delash mint,the minister at the New Hope
Cumberland Presbyterian Churchin Lebanon, Tennessee. With over

(00:28):
44 years in ministry, Steveshares how life experiences
constantly informs his faith andhis pastoral care. Steve is
rigorous in his pastoral care.As he spoke with me from his

(00:49):
office, we paused ourconversation a couple of times
so he could devote his attentionto unexpected needs in the
community.
If the conversation soundschoppy at times, it is due to my
lack of editing skills and notSteve's ability to share. And so

(01:11):
now, dear friend, here is thefaith journey of Steve
Delashment.
Steve, you had a recent healthscare within the last year.
You've actually had quite a bitof change in in your life in the
past 12 months. What was that?What happened?

Steve (01:36):
Memorial Day weekend in, 2022, I had the first health
crisis in my life. You know,prior to this, I had always
never really given a whole lotof thought to my health because
my health had always been good.I'd always been blessed with
good health, and I had no reasonto think or even consider that,

(01:58):
you know, it would change.

T.J. (02:00):
Mhmm.

Steve (02:01):
However, within a week, I went from feeling great to
barely being able to get out ofthe bed. I thought, what's
happening to me? You know, thishappens to others, but this
doesn't happen to me. I'mhealthy or at least I thought I
was. Yeah.
Because I've always had regularcheckups, and I've always, every

(02:25):
time, been given a good report.And within a week, I was put in
the hospital, and I stayedthere. And while I was there,
they discovered that I had afield, which I never knew I had
a field in my life, which led toa heart catheterization. And my

(02:47):
cardiologist that I met there inthe hospital said, well, Steve,
don't worry about it. Said itwill be a few stents maybe, but
you're certainly not a candidatefor open heart surgery.
And I had the catheterization,and he come out and he said,
well, I've got some good news,and I've got some not so good

(03:08):
news. Which would you like tohear first? I said, well, give
me the give me the not so goodfirst.

T.J. (03:15):
Okay.

Steve (03:15):
And he said, the not so good news is is that stents
won't work for you, but openheart surgery will. And we can
fix this for you through openheart surgery and give you the
quality of life that you need.You know? And I said, okay. And

(03:37):
next thing I know, I have justput my house on the market.
I have announced my last Sundayto the Bowling Green Church
where I've served for 20 years.They've set the date for my 20
year celebration. My housesales, a moving date set. And I

(03:58):
said, doc, you'll have to waittill I get all that done. And I
asked him, was it lifethreatening?
And he said, no. But as long asI would go home and not lift
anything over £5.

T.J. (04:14):
Mhmm.

Steve (04:14):
And I laughed at him. But I did all those things. I closed
on my house. I moved. I had mylast Sunday on July 14th.
I had my celebration there on13th July, and I had my open
heart surgery on that Mondaymorning.

T.J. (04:36):
Wow.

Steve (04:36):
I did great, TJ, and I went home within three and a
half days. The first two months,I did great. And then I moved to
New Hope Common PresbyterianChurch, where I'm currently
preaching and serving. Andsomething happened in September.

(04:57):
I I don't know what it was, butI go to my doctor and he says he
wanted to do a series of testson me.
And so he did, and I'm on my wayhome. And I get a call from his
nurse and says, you need to goto the emergency room. They are

(05:20):
there with a wheelchair waitingon you. You are in acute heart
failure.

T.J. (05:25):
While you're driving?

Steve (05:26):
While I'm driving. And then we're in a traffic jam.
Okay. And so, I got there, andthat began a series of not just
one stay in the hospital, but 5stay 5 visits in the hospital.

(05:48):
And each time, my cardiologistkept saying, we're gonna get you
better.
You're going to get better.Well, Thanksgiving came, and
like always, all my childrencame home, TJ, but, I mean, all
I could do was lay on the couch.I could not get up and do

(06:09):
anything. And then afterThanksgiving was my 5th stay in
the hospital. And the day beforemy birthday, on December 5th, I
got out of the hospital.
And for some reason, theydiscovered not only was my heart
head issues, but my thyroid wasway out of way. And so they put

(06:30):
me on thyroid medicine. And, Imean, immediately immediately, I
got it was like I wasmiraculously healed. And and and
ever since then, I have I havefelt like I felt before I ever
had this issue or problem. Wow.

(06:50):
And, you know, but during thiscrisis, you know, I thought
about it a lot in reflection,TJ, is that, you know, I've
prayed so many times for otherpeople's health and recovery and
healing. And, you know, I alwaysthought my faith was strong, and

(07:13):
and yet then I realized for thefirst time in my life, you know,
my health was questionable, andI thought I was gonna die. And,
you know, it caused me to leaninto my faith in a way that I
had never leaned into my faithbefore. And I firmly believe I

(07:40):
am alive, healthy, well, andserving God today because of all
the prayers of the churches thatI've served, because of all the
common Presbyterian people whoreached out to me across our
denomination, and because of thecare that I was given to me by
my physicians.

T.J. (08:03):
During those hospital stays and you were facing death,
how did that change your view onthe relationships with your
wife, your children? You havegrandchildren?

Steve (08:20):
Oh, yes.

T.J. (08:21):
Your grandchildren and and the New Hope Church that you
were serving. You had time. Iwould go crazy. You had time to
lay there, rest, recover. Whatdid you discover?
What did you learn in thosemoments of reflection?

Steve (08:38):
When it comes to my relationship with the New Hope
Cumberland Presbyterian Church,I could not, at that moment in
my life, have been in a betterplace.

T.J. (08:49):
Even though you had just gotten there?

Steve (08:51):
Yeah. Even though I had just gotten there. You know,
because I was not physically,emotionally, spiritually, or
mentally able to do much ofanything. Mhmm. And over and
over and over again, so many ofthese people brought food,

(09:14):
supported me through prayer,visited me in the hospital, and
reaffirmed every time that myhealth was all that mattered,
that the New Hope, KelloggPresbyterian Church, will be
just fine, and they would waitas long as it took for my health

(09:34):
to get better and for me torecover.
And they were fortunate at thattime because Aaron Ferry Ferrant
was serving here at that time,and he was preaching for them on
a regular basis. So it wasn'tlike they were in a crisis. You
know, and then when it comes tomy wife, you know, I've always

(09:57):
been the tear caretaker. I'vealways been the one taking care
of other people. And when itcame to my wife and my children,
you know, I could no longer carefor them in a way that I had all
my life.
You know, I'm a I've always beena doer. Mhmm. And I laid in that

(10:19):
bed, and and they literally hadto do everything, I mean,
everything for me. I I I justdid not have the strength to, do
anything. And my children mychildren yes.

T.J. (10:37):
Steve, how hard was that, for somebody who's a doer, self
sufficient, self reliant? Howhard is it to rely on other
people to do things for you thattypically you would have done
for yourself?

Steve (10:57):
Harder than you can imagine because, you know, as
some have accused me of being,I'm a control freak, which I've
never considered myself to bethat. I've always considered
myself to be a person who I comefrom a large family. And from

(11:21):
the time I was a little boy, Iwas always taking care of the
siblings that were underneathme. I came from a family
originally of 8 that grew to 14.Woah.
And so when you you know? So,therefore, as a child, I never
did not have a time in my lifethat I was not caring for

(11:44):
somebody.

T.J. (11:44):
Mhmm.

Steve (11:45):
I entered the ministry, and that care just continued. It
just took a different form.

T.J. (11:52):
Yeah.

Steve (11:53):
And, you know, one of the things that was difficult for me
is I'm good at giving. I'm notso good at receiving. And

T.J. (12:08):
Yeah.

Steve (12:09):
But there's one thing about it. When you're flat on
your back and you're helplessand you're doing everything you
can do to draw your next breath,you learn how totally dependent
you are, not upon god, only buthow totally dependent you are

(12:32):
upon those who love you themost. And I think that was my
family in the New Hope CommonPresbyterian Church. And if I
don't watch it, TJ, I'll becrying here.

T.J. (12:43):
That's alright. I spoke over you. You were telling me
about your relationship withyour children and, during this
time of healing and recovery.How did that impact your

(13:04):
relationship with your adultchildren?

Steve (13:07):
There's one thing, that is without question. I've always
had a wonderful relationshipwith my 3 children. And, you
know, I often wonder in when thetime came, I thought it would be
much later in my life. What howwould my children respond, and

(13:29):
what would my children do if Icouldn't do for myself? My
daughter, Otis, lives inMinnesota.
She flew here at least 6 or 7times and stayed at minimum 2
weeks each time. My otherdaughter came and stayed. I

(13:53):
mean, they tag team. And myother daughter came. And and and
my son came as often as hecould.
And, you know, this time in mylife gave me the opportunity,
you know, how you've always toldyour kids how much you love
them. But this recent healthcrisis gave us all the

(14:17):
opportunity to tell each otherhow much we loved them. And then
I realized how much my kidsloved me. And I knew that, but
they showed me how much theyloved me. And, at the same time,
they tried to boss me.
And, so there was moments thatthat didn't work out so well.

T.J. (14:40):
Yeah. You're physically at their mercy.

Steve (14:43):
Yes. But I had to straighten them out that I was
the dog and they were the tail.

T.J. (14:52):
Looking back at at this, health scare and the recovery,
in terms of the ministry, howhas that changed your pastoral
care? How has that changed yourpreaching and just how you
approach other human beings?

Steve (15:12):
You know, I've always thought that I was a very
empathetic person. Mhmm. And myrecent health care crisis in my
own life has now helped meunderstand in a way that I never

(15:32):
understood before what it's likewhen you are rolled off into an
OR, and, how do you reach theage I am in my life, TJ? And I
have never had never been in ahospital in my entire life, let
alone had my chest cut open.And, you know, and I thought,

(15:56):
you know, I'd always understoodhow the person that I was
praying for, you know, felt andwhat they were going through.
And now I realize that I dounderstand. You know? And and,
you know, it it it's kinda like,you know, the book I read years

(16:18):
ago by Henry Nowlin, The WoundedHealer. Mhmm. And, you know, and
I felt like, you know, at thatpoint in my life that that I was
wounded, and I've been healed.
And it just gave me a whole newperspective in my pastoral care,
which I've always consideredmyself to be a good pastor, have

(16:39):
a pastor's heart. Now I am Ifeel what they feel. And, when
it comes to preaching, you know,I've always felt like that your
preaching should be in thecontext of where you are. And

(17:00):
and one of the things that I'mdiscovering here is is that
while we are gaining in the areaof younger people at New Hope,
New Hope, for the most part, isa very, older congregation. And
so there's always someone herehaving some type of health

(17:20):
crisis.

T.J. (17:21):
Mhmm.

Steve (17:22):
And so, I make sure that I respond in every way I can to
their needs no matter what theyare in a way in a whole new
fresh way that I've never hadbefore?

T.J. (17:41):
Yeah. I I asked that question because in my pastoral
care, as hard as I have tried tobe empathetic to the anxieties,
even the fears of the individualwho may be facing surgery and
the loved ones involved. There'sno book or there's no class.

(18:08):
There's no even in repetition ofthe experiences that I think
that could really help meunderstand, unless I was on the
other end of that that trauma orthat health or that surgery. And
I'm not desiring that, but I'mjust acutely aware of the the

(18:34):
words, the prayers, the the thepresence always feels inadequate
for the situation.
And so I wanted to ask you assomebody who's on who's been on
the receiving end of care,physical care, but also on the

(18:55):
end of providing that care, youhave a unique experience, and
it's fresh on your mind. And soI kinda wanted to pick your
brain on that a bit.

Steve (19:04):
I appreciate that. And, you know, one of the, things
that's taught me is that, youknow, I think oftentimes after
and I've been in the ministryfor over 40 something years, TJ,
is that while I I got up, youknow, I put my preacher clothes

(19:27):
on, my pastor clothes on, and I,I rushed to the hospital and I
prayed. And and I, felt asthough I prayed all the right
things that well, I always didthem with, a sincere heart. I
think that when I look back overit now, many times that I'm I

(19:51):
had just got so mechanicallycaught up in just doing that
because that's what I do Mhmm.That that I that I, I didn't
always feel what they felt andwas not always empathetic to
what they're going through.
And now that's not gonna happenbecause I know what they're

(20:13):
going through. And as youshared, I know the anxieties,
and I know the fears. I know thethoughts that are running
through their mind and, youknow, which I always have found
it strange because many peoplehave said, well, Steve, nothing
seems to bother you. Really?Well, I do a pretty good job of

(20:39):
masking it is all I can saybecause, the last time I
checked, I'm human, and thingsbother me.
And, and like I say, you know,it was never for me the fear of
dying. It was I'm just not readyto for that to occur at this

(21:06):
present time because you askedabout my grandchildren. Mhmm. 2
weeks ago, on May 20th, Iperformed and officiated my
granddaughter's wedding. Oh,wow.
And who is graduating WesternKentucky University with a,
master's in nursing. And I justkept thinking, I've got I have

(21:29):
got to live long enough to dothat. Mhmm. And, you know, when
the time actually came, youknow, when it's your first
grandchild, and then, let's justadmit it. They're spoiled.
And, yet she's turned out to besuch a sweet, caring young

(21:54):
woman. And and and there's nogreater honor or privilege or
whatever you wanna call it thanto be able to officiate your
granddaughter's wedding and tosee how happy she is and how in
love she is, which it also didme some good because she married

(22:17):
a youth minister.

T.J. (22:18):
Okay. So, grandfather approves of the relationship on
many levels.

Steve (22:27):
Oh, yes. My family votes you in. You know, I have I have,
son in laws and no complaints.

T.J. (22:38):
Speaking of family, you had mentioned coming from a big
family. Did you grow up in aChristian environment? What what
did that look like? Let's talkabout that and maybe your
profession of faith, and we'lljust go from there.

Steve (22:54):
Okay. You you know, I was born a common Presbyterian TJ,
and my grandfather was an elderin my home church, which is
Holly Grove, CumberlandPresbyterian Church in
Covington,

T.J. (23:11):
Tennessee. Yeah. West Tennessee.

Steve (23:12):
Yes. And, he was an elder there until the age of 96. And,
my mother, was a wonderfulChristian lady and believe it or
not, she got up every Sundaymorning and she got us all
dressed and we went to church.And, I had many, many wonderful

(23:38):
pastors, at my home churchgrowing up as a kid. And, you
know, sometimes I when I hearthese comments about they don't
know whether they like theirpreacher or not.
I never had a preacher I didn'tlike. You know? But I had Roy
Shelton, Forrest Prosser, MBJackson, Ralph Madlock, Earl

(24:07):
Phelps, and many others at myhome church. And, you know, I
love them all. And, you know, Ihad so many people there.
Who were attentive to otherkids. It was like they adopted

(24:31):
you even though you were nottheir child. In my home church,
you felt like that you wereadopted by them. And I had the
most wonderful Sunday schoolteachers and and, you know, and
I had a Sunday school teacherwho had me, not just me, but all
the kids in the Sunday schoolclass. We memorize scripture.

(24:56):
And to this day, especiallyduring my recent health crisis,
I have needed that because,trust in the Lord with all thine
heart, lean not to thy ownunderstanding, and all thy ways
acknowledge him, and he shalldirect thy path. If I said that
once, I said it, it seemed likea 1,000 times. You know? And,

(25:20):
you know, I always felt like Ihad trusted God. And and for the
first time in my life, I was ina position to where I truly
understood what that meant totrust God when and maybe maybe I
needed that.
You know? And, I was at arevival. TJ, you asked me about

(25:44):
my profession of faith, andthere was a guy, there by the
name of Bill Rome. And this waswhen the song probably became
popular at that time. He wassinging, he touched me.
Mhmm. And it was during not theinvitational hymn at the end,
the hymn of consecration, but itwas during the singing of that

(26:07):
song that I went forward and,presented myself and professed
my faith in Christ. And I neverwill forget what my home pastor
said at that time. He said thathe said Steve comes forward
today to affirm publicly what hehas affirmed for a long time in

(26:30):
his life. And I I will neverforget him saying that.
Mhmm. And, you know, yes, I wasborn in a Christian home. I
always felt like I knew theunconditional love of God. And,
actually, the first job that Iever got was because of a young

(26:51):
man in my home church calledRichard Dell. I was in college,
and he gave me a job for theArmy Corps of Engineers, And I
worked every summer while I wasin college, and, I will never
forget him.

T.J. (27:07):
What did what did you do as your first job?

Steve (27:11):
I worked out in, you know, at that time, the army
corps of engineers did revetmentwork out on the river. And,
Richard was over all thepersonnel out there on the
boats.

T.J. (27:23):
You

Steve (27:23):
know, you you stayed in a motel at not hotel at night, but
you went out to the boats duringthe day. And he gave me an
administrative job there, whichactually led upon completion of
my college, to an internship inthe federal office building in
Memphis.

T.J. (27:40):
Oh, wow. I I was beginning to envision you, you know,
working on the boats, picking upgood old, river language and,

Steve (27:50):
Once a river rat, always a river rat.

T.J. (27:56):
You don't know how close to home that that term is for
me.

Steve (28:01):
Yeah. Well, trust me. You you learn a lot. And, one of the
things about my experience outon the river was it opened my
eyes to a new understanding ofwhat the world was really like
because I'd always lived apretty sheltered life up into

(28:22):
that point. And let's just say,I grew up miles out

T.J. (28:27):
there. Well, let's kinda ease into your calling into
ministry. How, Steve, how didthe calling of ministry pull you
away from the Mississippi River?

Steve (28:42):
I was serving in my home church, and, I felt this tugging
upon my heart and life that Iought to do more. And so I went
to my home pastor, and I talkedto him several times about that.

(29:03):
And, I think he gave me prettygood counsel, and, he was a
wise, a man of great wisdom, thereverend Ralph Madwell. Very
soft spoken and yet very,compassionate. And and and he

(29:28):
helped me see that, you know,Steve, if you feel as though God
is calling you to the ministry,It would be much simpler if you
could just show up here onSunday morning and you sit in
your regular spot and you lookdown there and there is a note
from God saying, I am callingyou, and you get the
confirmation that you arelooking forward.

(29:51):
And he said, but what I want toencourage you to do is to
explore that call, to ministry.And, but he also assured me at
the same time that there wasnothing wrong with the fact that
if I began exploring that calland saw that this is not for me,

(30:14):
this is not what God's wantingme to do, That that there was no
shame or disgrace and continuedto serve in the way I because I
served in an elder. I was one ofthe youngest elders in my home
church and later into the WalnutGrove Cumbrian Presbyterian
Church. Mhmm. And, so I began inmy journey, and I went to

(30:43):
Memphis Theological Seminary.
And, he shared with me whiletalking with me that if God was
calling me into the ministry, Iwould sense that, and I would
see the evidence of Godconfirming that call in my life.
And he was spot on. And, youknow, the more I the more I

(31:08):
studied and the more I, exploredthe call that God had on my
life. And I don't know if youremember this or not. I don't
even know if it's still arequired course, but doctor
Hubert Mora taught it when Ientered seminary, and it was
upon your call into theministry.
It was called the office of thedoctrine of ministry. And it was

(31:30):
only a 2 hour course and but ithelped me understand that what
God was doing in my life waswhat I needed to be doing, and
God was calling me to theministry. And then from that
point on, I love my experienceat Memphis Theological Seminary.

(31:57):
I I will never never forget,doctor Virgil Todd

T.J. (32:03):
Mhmm.

Steve (32:04):
And him quoting the Exodus passage. I heard your
cry. I will never forget the himas long as I will. And I love
the knickerbocker. And I love myNew Testament professor, doctor
William Brawley.
And, I mean, I loved everyprofessor there, and sometimes

(32:28):
my seminary experience exposedme to new ideas and new ways of
looking at things because priorto that, TJ, I had a very
limited understanding of whatthe church was. And then I
realized while there that thechurch is much bigger than the
Holly Grove Common PresbyterianChurch, and, it gave me a whole

(32:50):
new perspective about thechurch. I I gained a whole new
worldview while studying atNephesiological Seminary. And
and if and if I could go back,I'd go there again. I loved it.

T.J. (33:08):
Well, you can always go back to school.

Steve (33:11):
Well, I could.

T.J. (33:17):
Before you entered in the seminary, what was your career
path?

Steve (33:23):
I worked for the United United States Army Corps of
Engineers. I I showed you whatthe job that Richard Depp helped
me secure. Mhmm. Once I receivedmy degree from college and by
the way, I'm a graduate BethelUniversity now, but it was
Bethel College at the time. Igraduated there, and, I got an

(33:46):
internship, and it was a internposition that promoted you every
at the end of every year, itpromoted you up.
And by the time, Responded tothe call of ministry, I worked
there 5 years, 11 months and 3days. And if I can find it here,

(34:10):
they can't see it, but I'll showit to you. It's been rebound 3
times, this leather bible, andthis is the exact bible that the
Army Corps of Engineers gave methe day I walked out the
building there Wow. Theministry. And that was in 1977.

T.J. (34:32):
Wow. Well, it's a nice parting gift.

Steve (34:37):
Yes.

T.J. (34:37):
Now I could make I could make a joke and say, you know,
you haven't taken very good careof it if you've had it rebound
multiple times.

Steve (34:45):
No. It's because of the wear

T.J. (34:47):
I know.

Steve (34:47):
And the usage of it.

T.J. (34:53):
Steve, with your experience in the pastorate and
in ministry, what words ofwisdom would you impart upon
somebody who is exploring thecall? How would you steer them

(35:14):
either away or towards the call?

Steve (35:19):
1st, I would steer them toward the call. Because in
reflection upon my own ministryover all these years, I can't
imagine doing anything else withmy life than what God has done

(35:42):
in and through me. Mhmm. And, inthe pastoral ministry, you know,
I've had opportunities to towalk and to be with people in a
way that I don't think mostindividuals ever get. And I

(36:07):
think I would pass on the samewisdom that my home pastor gave
me of anyone considering thecall to the ministry, be it
pastoral, be it the missionfield, be it a teacher.
Explore that call and see wherethat call takes you. And that if

(36:29):
I've gained any wisdom at alland I got that wisdom from Ralph
Madlock. If this is what God iscalling you to do, God will
confirm that call again andagain and again and again in
your life. And that's certainlybeen my experience. And one of
the things I also would havelearned in pastoral ministry,

(36:53):
and I don't know if you reallyasked this or not, but I wanna
share it.
I've pastored in the ruralcommon Presbyterian Church. I've
pastored in the small town, andI have pastored in the urban
city. And no matter rural, smalltown, or urban, what I have

(37:16):
discovered is and realized isthat the needs of God's people
are all the same. Mhmm. And, youknow, and there's no greater
blessing, and there's no greaterjoy than to know that God is

(37:37):
able to use you and work in andthrough you to help bring,
wholeness and wellness to otherpeople's lives.

T.J. (37:52):
Years ago, I was visiting a presbytery. I was either in
high school or college. I'mgonna say college. Yeah. It must
have been college.
I was attending a presbyterythat you were a part of, and it
was time for communications, youknow, excuses for reasons that

(38:13):
people, were unable to attendpresbytery. And I was acquainted
with you, but I didn't reallyknow who you were. And you're
you sent a communication in. AndI don't remember the exact
wording, but it was something tothe effect. I won't be at
presbytery today.
I'm on vacation. I'm in LasVegas, and I'm having a good

(38:37):
time. You can excuse me or not,but I'm not leaving Las Vegas
for the Presbytery meetingtoday, and that has stuck with
me for years years years years.And the reason why I I want you
to I don't know if you rememberwriting there or not.

Steve (38:56):
I do.

T.J. (38:57):
There's a lot of times is when, you know, we have
communications in thepresbytery. We're we're often
very vague. And what stuck outto me was, 1, you're very
specific, and then 2, you didn'treally care if you were excused
or not. You were on vacation.Vacation in Las Vegas none

(39:21):
nonetheless.
So I've never had theopportunity to ask you about
this. So take a look

Steve (39:26):
at that. In Murfrees that would have been in Murfreesboro,
Presbyterian. And, once again,one of the, you know, one of the
things I've always been blessedwith. TJ is that in every
church. I have served as I havebeen blessed with good.
Mentors and ministers. I'vealways had mentors and lay

(39:49):
people in every church that Iserve. Mhmm. And one of those
mentors in my life in theLebanon Covenant Presbyterian
Church was a guy by the name ofBill Berry. And Bill Berry
looked at me one day, and hesaid that he was in competition,
for a free trip to Las Vegas.

(40:09):
And that if he won it, he wasgiving half of the proceeds to
me.

T.J. (40:15):
Alright.

Steve (40:15):
He won. And I took my first trip to Las Vegas. And,
you know, once again, I thoughtthis ship may not pass this way
again, and I'm going to go toLas Vegas and. I don't know how
many people can say that, but Ican count on one hand how many

(40:40):
times I've missed presbytery in5 in 44 years. Less than 5.
And so I didn't really carewhether they granted me an
excuse or not. And, and and andand and, you know, yes. They
granted it. And, you know,here's the thing. Why not tell

(41:04):
the truth about where you were?
Mhmm. You know? I mean, that'swhere I was. You know? And you
asked me about my family.
That's one of the things thatyou know, little things that
your parents taught you. One ofthe things my parents always
taught me was tell the truth.Honesty goes a long ways.

T.J. (41:25):
Mhmm.

Steve (41:26):
And and and and telling an untruth or a lie will only
get you in trouble. Mhmm. Well,I didn't wanna get in trouble
with the Presbyterian, so I justtold the truth.

T.J. (41:37):
Oh, man. That that has stuck out. I was a candidate for
ministry. Yeah. I was at thattime, and I was visiting your
presbytery.
And I was like, wow. I don'tknow who this person is, but I
really admired theforthrightness, and there wasn't
anything to hide in the midstof, you know, communications

(42:01):
that are always vague. I'm notable to make it, but, you know,
rarely with details. But youjust put that out there, and,
that stuck with me. And I had toask you, where was that coming
from?
And also of all places, youknow, the Sin City. I'm gonna be

(42:21):
in Sin City instead ofpresbytery meeting, or maybe
that isn't such a stretch.

Steve (42:26):
But just remember, it was saying what goes on in Vegas
stays in Vegas. And you knowwhat what what you what you
probably are not aware of, butseveral years ago when my wife
died, Bill Berry spoke at mywife's funeral, and he brought
up the trip to Las Vegas. And wewon't go into detail why.

T.J. (42:55):
Well, impart some more wisdom if you if you feel
comfortable in doing this,Steve, in terms of, you know,
losing your spouse and then yetfinding love again, and how that
fits into faith and yourrelationship with God, your

(43:15):
relationship with your family,blending families, all of those
beautiful and complex things.What was that experience like?
And I know it wasn't anexperience in terms of like, oh,
this is an event, but share withme that that time, that season
of your life.

Steve (43:36):
As you may remember, my wife's death was very
unexpected. I mean, I was in theroom, and she had had knee
surgery and and died, and Ididn't even know she had passed.
I thought she was just resting.And I go from talking to her 10

(43:57):
minutes before to hearing nursesscream code blue, code blue,
code blue. And, when they gother upstairs at Saint Thomas
Hospital in a neurological pod,you and I both know because
you've been there yourself.

(44:20):
When 2 chaplains and 2 doctorswalk in, I mean, you know what
they're gonna say. And so afterthat, you know. Mechanically,
you know, or you have to do allthe things there. That are
necessary to give closure and tocelebrate someone's life, and

(44:42):
and I did all of that. And andthen at that time, the church
where I was serving, which wasBowling Green, felt as though
that I needed to take some timeoff.
So I tried that. And, within aweek after I was gone, And they

(45:05):
gave me an unlimited time. Icould take as much time as I
wanted off. And, a church memberthere who had been ill for quite
a long time, who was a veteranand a great guy, and I went to
coffee with him on many days andoccasions. He died unexpectedly.

(45:26):
And they contacted me and hisfamily, and they understood that
I was in no position probably todo his service, but they
understood that. But they wantedme to know. Well, the smartest
thing I ever did was I returnedback to the church, and I did

(45:46):
his service celebrating his lifebecause this is what I do. And
and, you know, many people willsay oftentimes that people hide,
you know, in their work andthat, you know, I I just went
back to work because that wayI'm really not grieving. Well,
for me, that wasn't true.

(46:09):
The way I the way I was going toget through all of this was is
to return back to serving God inthe way that I had been serving
God when this all unexpectedlyhappened. Mhmm. And and to deny
the fact that I grieved all thattime, it is not because one of

(46:31):
the things that I learned, TJ,about grief was this. My wife
worked for Dillard's, and misterDillard had flown in from Little
Rock, Arkansas, and she was oneof the top sales persons there.
And they were after she died,she was already scheduled to

(46:51):
receive an award.
And and I thought when they cangive me the invitation, I
thought to myself, I will go ifI think I can go and not be a a,
a blubbering crybaby. Mhmm. And,so the day came and I went, and
the event was over, and Ireceived the award. But this is

(47:14):
where I'm going to what Ilearned about grief was is that
I got back to my car because Ihad to park my car on the
street, and, you know, I didfine. And then when I got to my
car, you know, I reached to putmy hand on the door handle so
the car would unlock.
And out of nowhere, he you know,when you've been outside and you

(47:36):
look up and there's not a cloudin the sky and then all of a
sudden starts pouring downraining on you? Mhmm. I started
bawling, and I started crying.And and for the first time in my
life, I thought as much as I'dseen other people grieve, I
realized that grief is notsomething you can control. You

(47:58):
know, you you you know, thosemoments when you grieve come up
out of nowhere just like braincan come out of nowhere in an
instant, and that I continue toto to remember that it was okay
to grieve.
And, you know, and and, youknow, and and even in moments

(48:23):
when I returned to church, ifsome song was sung and and and
or something was said. Iremember oftentimes, I was
sitting there saying to myself,okay. The last one, you gotta
get it together. You gotta getit together. You gotta get it
together because it was gonna besoon time.
The hymn would be over, and itwould be time for me to to move

(48:44):
on into the next part ofworship. And, but then I learned
just let myself grieve atwhatever pace I was. And, you
know, I I just continued toserve the church, and then I
think God has a hand in all ofthat. And, a young couple that I

(49:05):
had preached her ordinationservice, and her husband became
an orthodontist. And, I returnedback to the Lebanon church on 1
Sunday morning to baptize theirchildren.
They I I had preached theirordination, and I had officiated
their wedding, and now theywanted me to baptize their

(49:26):
children.

T.J. (49:27):
Yeah.

Steve (49:28):
So I went back to the church there. And when I got
there that morning, this womanstood up who was a music
director there, who was notthere at the time I was its
pastor. And out of nowhere, shebegan leading the music, and I
could feel the spirit of Godflowing through her. And it's

(49:49):
just like it was flowingdirectly at me, and it was like
God picked up a a club and hitme in the head and said, it's
time, Steve, for you to begin anew chapter in your life. You
need to ask that one out.

(50:10):
Well, within 24 hours, I finallymust've up enough courage to do
that. And, you know, I say thatbecause, you know, when you have
been married such a long time toa person and then that person's
no longer there and you have tostart a new chapter in your

(50:32):
life. Mhmm. It's scary. And butI will say one thing that God
got that right.
Remarrying, and being currentlymarried to my wife, Faye. I
never forget the first time myoldest daughter met her. We were

(50:56):
standing outside, and my oldestdaughter walked outside where I
was standing, and Faye was inthe house talking to my other
children. And Moe's daughtersaid, you know, his mother would
love her.

T.J. (51:21):
It's a wonderful thing to hear.

Steve (51:32):
And, you know, when you start another chapter of your
life, you realize that I sayanother chapter. It's just a
continuation of the good lifethat I've always had. You know?
There are people who look backupon their life and always seem
to be able to see as the bad.When I look back upon my life,

(51:58):
what I see is the good Mhmm.
And what a blessed life I'vehad. And, you know, I attribute
all of that in the way I feel tothe church. And, you know, when
I hear some people putting ontheir gloves and badmouthing the

(52:19):
church, I'll be at the head ofthe line shouting the loudest,
defending the church because ifthere were moments in my life
when I felt like that otherpeople were not there, There's
never been a moment in my lifewhen the church starting from
the moment that I was born intothe Holy Grove Common

(52:41):
Presbyterian Church to this veryday, there's never been a moment
in my life that I didn't feelthe presence of the Cumming
Presbyterian Church. Mhmm. Youknow, I love the Cumberland
Presbyterian Church.

T.J. (52:56):
What are some of the things that the Cumberland
Presbyterian denomination youthink is doing really well?

Steve (53:06):
You know, I think the new approach that we have was some
people will not agree. The factthat our missions now has
broadened and become global, Ithink that's one of the things
that we are doing right. Mhmm. Ithink that secondly, from the

(53:29):
beginning, you know, that wehave presented the gospel in a
way it proclaims the truth, butat the same time, you also hear
a a message of truth proclaimedwith a message coupled right
beside it with grace. Mhmm.

(53:50):
I'm gonna have to stop for asecond, teacher. Sure. Yeah.

T.J. (53:54):
Go ahead.

Steve (53:55):
About that.

T.J. (53:55):
I'm sorry. Go ahead.

Steve (54:01):
Sorry about that.

T.J. (54:02):
No. No need to follow-up

Steve (54:04):
with this. Here wanting help. K. Now where were we?

T.J. (54:09):
You had just finished up. You were talking about

Steve (54:15):
Oh, the second the second thing.

T.J. (54:17):
Yeah. You were talking about coupling,

Steve (54:20):
The the gospel, which is the gospel with grace. Embrace.
Yes. Yeah. And I think that'sone of the things, that the
common Presbyterian Church doesvery well because I say that
because my current wife wasexposed so much to a different
tradition.

T.J. (54:41):
Mhmm.

Steve (54:41):
And she made the comment that when she became a part of
the Cumberland PresbyterianChurch in West Nashville, that
it was the first time in heradult life that she'd ever heard
the word grace. And, I thinkthat's one of the things that
the Cumberland PresbyterianChurch, does well. And some

(55:03):
would say that, perhaps we waterdown the gospel. I don't think
that's true at all. But I thinkthat we we proclaim and preach
the word of God, coupled withthe message of grace, and give
people the opportunity torespond to that in a way that is

(55:23):
appropriate for their life.

T.J. (55:26):
Where do you think we have areas for improvement as a
denomination, as a people calledCumberland Presbyterian?

Steve (55:35):
You know, I know this is probably not the answer that you
were wanting to get. But ifthere's one area that I think
that we need to change. It's notso much change as it is is to
rethink it. When I hear peopleso often refer to the Cullman

(55:58):
Presbyterian Church, they thinkof it and they say, well, you
know, we're just a smalldenomination. I think we need to
get rid of that kind ofmentality.
I think we are denomination witha great message and just drop

(56:21):
the word small out. Mhmm. And,because, you know, sometimes the
old saying goes, bigger is notalways better. Mhmm.

T.J. (56:34):
And

Steve (56:34):
now in our culture is, we need to learn that sometimes,
less is more. And, you know, I Ihear people saying all the time
that what we need to do in orderto, change and attract different

(56:57):
people is we need to change ourname. I'm not about to take
Cumberland Presbyterian off thechurch sign. Mhmm. I think
that's something to embrace, notsomething to change.
And, I think when people come toa common Presbyterian Church,

(57:21):
regardless of what the sign saysout front where it says New Hope
Common Presbyterian Church or ifit said New Hope Community
Church, I think it's about whatthey experience once they walk
through the doors of thatchurch. It's most important.
Mhmm. Not what name it has onthe sign out front.

T.J. (57:44):
Yeah. To to be a people who are seeking and receive good
news, the gospel, and grace,also the gospel. Absolutely.

Steve (57:58):
Also, you know, I think sometimes we try, and I
certainly don't think this isjust at any particular level.
But it seems as though sometimesthat we have a trouble keeping
everyone informed about what isgoing on in the Cullman

(58:20):
Presbyterian Church, and I don'tthink that's due to any one
particular group of people asmuch as it is that, you know,
you can receive, like, forexample, the missionary
messenger free. Mhmm. Any churchmember, any church can't, and

(58:42):
yet, for some reason, we havepeople that do not make yourself
avail of that. You know?
And why would you not? You know?So you would know what's going
on in the common Presbyterianchurch in the area of missions.
And and yet at the same time,they won't receive that that

(59:02):
that communication. They'llcomplain about the fact that
we're not doing anything.

T.J. (59:09):
Well, I'll even push it a little further because I'm a
contributor to the missionarymessenger, the example that you
gave for the magazine. Just byreceiving it doesn't mean that
people are reading it. So Ithink I'm a piggyback on the

(59:31):
improvement for communication.How we communicate with one
another, how we dialogue withone another is crucial, but it
takes more than 1 individual.Takes that interaction.

Steve (59:45):
Yes. I certainly agree. I I reckon that, you know, I
reckon maybe I was speaking frommy perspective, TJ, because one
of the things that I do when Ireceived the MissionEAR
Messenger, I read it from frontto back. Mhmm. You know?
And, you know, because I dowanna know what's going on, and

(01:00:05):
I do wanna know what ishappening in the church. And,
sometimes the articles that arein there are not just about
what's going on in the aramid,but they're they are educational
articles that can give you adifferent insight and a
different perspective of how youmight or how the approach to

(01:00:26):
missions is changing. You know,and, you know, and, asking
yourself, you know, is yourchurch a missional church? Is
it, you know, and because overmy years in the ministry, one of
the things that I havediscovered is is is that that I
think we need to improve on isthat we spend so much trying

(01:00:50):
time trying to maintain that wedon't spend enough time reaching
out. And, you know, every churchI have served, initially, when I
got there was it was more inwardgrown than outward.

T.J. (01:01:11):
Mhmm.

Steve (01:01:12):
And so one of the things that has been my whole focus, no
matter what church I serve, isteaching them that the gospel is
not just about who are insidethese walls, but it's about what
goes on out of here in theworld. And that what we need to

(01:01:32):
do is to find out where God isat work in the world and join

T.J. (01:01:39):
him. Yeah. Communication, definitely an area for
improvement. But it shouldalways be at the top for areas
of improvement. Not just news,but just our interactions with
each other, how we interact withone another.

Steve (01:02:00):
You know, one of the things that that I really have
enjoyed, since moving back tothis area. Many people, I don't
see it as I don't believe theysee it as a positive, but I see
it as a very positive thing. Ihave the opportunity now on
Monday morning at 10 o'clock tomeet with a group of common

(01:02:23):
Presbyterian ministers inSmyrna, Tennessee at Cracker
Barrel, which originally it wascalled Nashville now. But, you
know, it's a group of ministers.And, I think that's one of the
things that we need in ChristianChurch is that we need somehow
to have, more, vehicles likethat that, you know, we're not

(01:02:48):
coming together to, strategize.
We're not coming together to,plan. We're just coming together
for the sake of being with oneanother

T.J. (01:02:58):
Mhmm.

Steve (01:02:59):
And and, and just have the opportunity to I mean, I
enjoy fellowshipping with theministers that I get to see. And
and and just, you know, we andjust hear about what's going on
in their family and and andsomething that's weird or
something that's exciting orfunny that's happened in their
life. And, you know, it's it's,it it's, such a relaxing

(01:03:24):
environment. But at the sametime, it is such a refreshing
environment. It you know?
It's just it's the camaraderieof it. You you know what I mean?
Just we're just we're just, youknow, it's like, we're better
together. You know what I mean?And and we're just hanging out
with one another.
And and and there's times thatin the ministry I think if we're

(01:03:48):
all honest, ministry is a verylonely profession sometime
because what we do so often, wedo by ourself.

T.J. (01:03:58):
Yeah.

Steve (01:03:59):
And and maybe I feel that way because I'm a people person.
I like to be around people.Yeah. You know, I enjoy the
company of other people. I I Ivalue what other people have got
to say, and and share.

(01:04:20):
And I think, you know, it'skinda like, I'm not saying it
doesn't have value or its place,but that's like offering the
fact that I can get a degreefrom Memphis Theological
Seminary online, or I can go tothe seminary and I can interact
with TJ Malinowski, or I caninteract with other peers and

(01:04:44):
colleagues. I'll take the latteranytime over an online degree.

T.J. (01:04:49):
Yeah. Yeah. There's benefits and challenges for
pursuing your education online.And I guess that balance the
balance is the challenge for theinstitution, but also for the
student as well. It really is.

Steve (01:05:08):
Yeah. I mean I mean, just like today, even in this time
that I have spent with you, youhave said things that sparked my
interest. And, you know, whilethey may have been, not
intended, there are gonna bethings that when this podcast is

(01:05:28):
over, I I'm gonna reflect onthose things.

T.J. (01:05:32):
Yeah.

Steve (01:05:32):
Because I think that's how we are challenged to to
expand our understanding ofministry and our understanding
of where God is at work in theworld and our understanding of
the church at large.

T.J. (01:05:47):
Yeah. I was having a conversation with a colleague
earlier this week, and we weretalking about communication. We
were talking about dialogue withother other folks and the
importance of being able togather together with 1 or
multiple people for dialogue.We're so I think as

(01:06:10):
Presbyterians, we're so gearedtowards, we get together for
worship. That's essential.
But the other times that we gettogether are for board or
committee meetings, and thosehave a specific, like, outcome
or goal. And what's wrong withus gathering and to have a

(01:06:31):
theological discussion or one ofchild rearing or upcoming or
past vacations or what'shappening in the ministries that
were involved. There is nooutcome. It's just a matter of
sharing, but growth can comefrom that. I think that's very
needed.
And what can't be replaced orreplicated, I should say, is

(01:06:57):
that that human interaction inthe same in the same space,
physical space. And then whattechnology has to offer is
fantastic. It's excellent. We'reusing it right now, but it still
falls secondary. I'm verygrateful it's here, but the

(01:07:19):
ideal is that you and I would besitting in in the same room.

Steve (01:07:24):
But what you know, I think what you said is one of
the things that has probablybeen referred to, and I
apologize for interrupting, thatthere's no greater gift than
anything that one can bring tothe ministry sometimes. If we're
if if if when we are withsomeone else, it's called the

(01:07:45):
ministry of presence. Mhmm. Youknow, we're just present with
them. You know?
I mean, you know, sometimes, youknow, we we think that when
we're in the hospital waitingroom and we're waiting the
outcome of some serious surgerysomeone's undergoing. It's not
what we say that sometimes isthe most critical.

T.J. (01:08:08):
Mhmm.

Steve (01:08:08):
What people remember is the fact whether it whether it
was TJ or whether it was myself,they remember the fact that we
were present and we were therewith them.

T.J. (01:08:20):
Yeah. Tyler Lindsey, reverend Tyler Lindsey, a
previous guest on CumberlandRoad, he was talking about that,
and I value it so much becausehe is a minister. He's usually
on the giving end, not always,but usually ministers are on the
giving end. But because of atornado that devastated his home

(01:08:43):
and the community, he had to beon the receiving end and the
power of presence.

Steve (01:08:51):
Okay. I got someone else. Can I just stop just for a
second?

T.J. (01:08:54):
Absolutely. Yeah. I'll hang tight.

Steve (01:09:01):
That was a church memory. I'm sorry.

T.J. (01:09:03):
No. That's okay.

Steve (01:09:05):
I just decided to have someone stop by and visit with.

T.J. (01:09:12):
What's your favorite kind of music, And why is music so
important to to you as a couple,but also to your ministry?

Steve (01:09:24):
One of the things that I love about music is is is that
music speaks to the depth of oursoul in a way that other things
do not. And you asked me whatkind of music that I like the
most. I just can't pinpointwhich type of music I like the

(01:09:46):
most. Because sometimes, if I'min this office by myself or
riding in my car, I love whatpeople laugh about. I love the
elevator music.

T.J. (01:09:59):
Okay.

Steve (01:10:00):
Where it's just instrumental. Mhmm. I don't, you
know, I don't even wanna hearwords. And then I love the
traditional hymns of the faith.Mhmm.
And, I found it very interestingbecause people have often said
that. Young people lovecontemporary music. Well, when

(01:10:28):
the youth of the Bowling GreenChurch were asked to pick what
they wanted to sing, it usedSunday. They picked the
traditional hymns of the church.And, you know, to me, the reason
I think that hymns are soimportant to both of us as a
couple is when I sing the hymn,morning by morning, your mercies

(01:10:55):
I see, great is thyfaithfulness, Lord, unto me.
It reminds me of how faithfulGod has been, how faithful God
is, and how faithful God is willcontinue to be regardless of
whether I'm faithful orunfaithful to God. God remains

(01:11:16):
steadfast and faithful, and thathis love is forever reaching out
toward me. And I think thetraditional hymns of the church
speak to us with a depth and abreadth. And I like contemporary
music. But the traditional hymnsjust have a depth and a breadth

(01:11:40):
and a width that speak to me ina way that contemporary music
doesn't.
You know? But at the same time,if you get in my car, it's
always on the message.

T.J. (01:11:55):
Okay.

Steve (01:11:56):
And that's that's the Christian radio station, and,
you know, you it's alwaysplaying music and, you know, and
I love Lauren Davis' new songthat's just come out called
thank you, Lord. And, you know,and so, you know, music adds a

(01:12:17):
dimension to worship that wouldnot be present if it was absent.
And, you know, I think there'stimes that for me, and I don't
know other people, but music canmove me in a way that what you

(01:12:43):
might have said through asermon, but when it was said
through a song, it gives me whatI call those spiritual
goosebumps. And I myself like mywife being a pretty good singer.
There are times that when yousing and you sing for the glory

(01:13:08):
of God, you get those goosebumpsover you when your voice sings a
certain part of a song.
And it's just like anythingelse, you know, that's of God
because you can't control whenthey come and you can't control
when they leave.

T.J. (01:13:28):
Yeah.

Steve (01:13:28):
And, I I I think where would the world be without
music? And by the way, I love Ilove I love classical. I even
like country.

T.J. (01:13:44):
You're gonna make Cumberland Road a confessional
podcast.

Steve (01:13:49):
Well, that's okay. Is it not?

T.J. (01:13:52):
In a way, maybe. Well, let me ask you this on music. We can
stay here for a minute. Do youwhen you sing, do you ever lose
yourself in the song, kinda likein time and space? Like, you're
not thinking about where you'restanding or or who's around you

(01:14:13):
or maybe even where what thewords are or what the
instruments are.
I'm wondering because I don'thave those talents, but I really
enjoy music. And there aretimes, and not that I can force
it or make it happen, but I cankinda lose myself into the
music. And and there's gaps ofit it it pushes me. It, it

(01:14:41):
allows me to travel maybe evenoutside of myself. I don't know.
I'm kinda rambling now. But doesthat something like that happen
to you?

Steve (01:14:51):
When you said the words traveling, to me, music does for
me. You know, have you ever,been driving a car, TJ, and
you're out on the interstate,and you look up and you're at
mile marker 16? Mhmm. And thenonly later, you're at mile

(01:15:11):
marker 42, and you don'tremember anything between 16 and
42.

T.J. (01:15:17):
Yeah. That's kinda what I'm because

Steve (01:15:19):
you were lost and caught up into whatever you were
experiencing. Mhmm. Well, to me,anyone who sings and and and and
and and puts their whole selfinto it, It's that same type of
experience. And and and then youknow the moment it began began,

(01:15:43):
and then all of a sudden, thatmoment ends, and yet you wonder
what all did you feel andexperience between the beginning
and the end. Mhmm.
You know? And, and there's timesthat that music speaks to the

(01:16:06):
person or to myself or a personof faith in a way that maybe a
message didn't. Because one ofthe things I have learned in my
own pastoral visitation is isthat when I go out to a nursing
home or an Alzheimer's unit orto an assisted living place or
whatever, that person, when Ienter their room, may not know

(01:16:30):
who I am.

T.J. (01:16:32):
Mhmm.

Steve (01:16:33):
But if I looked at this particular lady and one comes to
my my mind, her name was BettyJordan, she never knew who I was
when I entered the room. But Icould say, Betty, let let us
sing how great the art, and sheknew every word.

T.J. (01:16:53):
Wow.

Steve (01:16:54):
And so music, even in those moments when they don't
have clarity about other things,that's why I reckon I love the
great hymns of the church isbecause even in those moments of
confusion, and lack of memory,Somehow those songs and those

(01:17:16):
words. They don't forget and, soI think that just. Reiterates
the fact that music touchespeople in a way that sometimes
other mediums don't.

T.J. (01:17:36):
Right.

Steve (01:17:37):
Yeah. You know? And then again, I'd rather hear you know?
I mean, I love going to aconcert or to listening to an
artist sing and perform. Youknow?
Because I can sit there and Ilike to when an artist is
singing, I don't know why, but Ilike to listen with my eyes

(01:17:59):
shut.

T.J. (01:18:00):
Mhmm.

Steve (01:18:01):
I it it it it increases or sharpens my hearing or
something.

T.J. (01:18:07):
Yeah. It it can cover up the, the eyelids cover up the
visual distractions, potentialdistractions. So that, the
mind's eye can focus on theinstruments, the voice, and the
lyrics.

Steve (01:18:25):
You said that much more beautifully than I did.

T.J. (01:18:31):
Steve, we were talking about the church and its
strengths and areas forimprovements, but I'm interested
also in your dream for theCumberland Presbyterian Church,
the dream that when you and Iare gone, where would you like
to see the denomination in theworld and its impact on the

(01:18:55):
world?

Steve (01:18:58):
You know, when you asked me that, TJ, when I began to
think about it is that when Ibegan ministry, ministry did not
seem to be so much multifaceted,you know, or the expectations of
what were expected from you ifyou were an ordained minister.

(01:19:22):
Over the years, the ex exexpectations for a minister have
just increasingly grew. Andbecause of technology and things
like that, now we're we arealways being compared to

(01:19:42):
somebody that they hear or watchor listen to on whatever form
of, medium or communication thatworks TV or radio or whatever.
My dream for the CompressedUnion Church, and I know that
this may sound simple, but mydream is is that there'll always

(01:20:03):
be a Christian church Mhmm. Thatwe will not cease to exist
because I hear so many peoplewith that message of doom and
gloom that.
You know, that there'll become apoint in time in history where
we won't exist, and I don'tbelieve that. You know? And and

(01:20:26):
and to me, I think the and whatI want to see happening in the
Cullman Presbyterian Church isis that, you know, that we see a
stronger need for the church asa whole to reach out into the
world and to be what God hascalled the church to be at in

(01:20:51):
the world and and just becomefocused on what god is doing in
the world and and partneringwith God in the world to
accomplish whatever his will is.Because, you know, I think
sometimes in the in the localchurch, we think that what our

(01:21:16):
visions needs to be is we needto, find some kind of program or
something that's gonna fix us sowe can move forward. Well, I
think that's getting the cartbefore the horse.
You know, I I think that one ofthe greatest bible studies that
I ever did, and I'm sureeverybody's got their opinion,

(01:21:37):
But it was the Bible study yearsago called experiencing God,
written by Henry Blackaby andClaude King. And even though I
didn't agree with everythingthat was in it theologically, it
it did help me learn how todiscern what the will of God is

(01:22:01):
and how to look for where God isat work in the world. And so if
I have any dream for vision forthe CP church, it's for those
who are called to serve theCovenant Presbyterian Church
will always stay in thatdiscernment process of trying to
determine where God is at workin the world and what is God

(01:22:27):
wanting to accomplish in andthrough us as a denomination.

T.J. (01:22:31):
Yeah. To maybe do that dirty and hard discernment of
looking inwardly both asindividuals but the corporate
body and go, well, here's who weare, here's who we're not, and
here's who we could be.Absolutely. Yeah. That takes

(01:22:55):
time and, willingness to be,well, vulnerable.
Find things that we may not beso proud of, when we're not at
our best moments. And I keepsaying we, because it's
collective, corporate.

Steve (01:23:14):
But you you know, and the last thing you just said is
sometimes I think where it'scollectively as a church or as
an individual, sometimes thingsare said to us and we don't like
them. Mhmm. But if we becomehonest with ourselves and truly

(01:23:38):
listen to what was shared to usand what it ever whatever it was
that rattled us, That we cancome to the fact and the
awareness that there's muchtruth in what has been spoken to
us. And instead of seeing thatas a negative. See it as a
positive, you know, sometimeswomen are not like what is said

(01:23:59):
to us.
But if we get into thatreflective state, that we will
look at and look inward andrealize that there was much
truth in what was spoken to us.

T.J. (01:24:13):
Yeah. And that relationship with the other
individual or within groups toallow that space for that
reflection. So, you know, to befor me to be able to ask why did
that sting? Why did that offendme? Why did that hurt?
Why did that anger me? I mightneed I will need time to kinda

(01:24:34):
to do that self reflecting. Andit could be minutes, it could be
hours, it could be days, itcould be months. Oh, man. Steve
was right.
I can be a jerk in a meeting orwhatever. You know, the

Steve (01:24:49):
I agree with that.

T.J. (01:24:53):
But yeah. But the relationship has to be we have
to be intentional, and it has tobe

Steve (01:25:09):
Yeah. You you know, going back to my seminary experience,
you know, I had never you know,you you you hear new things. And
I remember one of the thingsthat doctor Maher taught in the
office of doctor ministry wasfor us to learn to do
theological reflection. And atthe end of every day of our

(01:25:29):
life, you know, I don't know ifyou do this or not, but I I
journal. And I try at the end ofthe day or sometimes I let
several days pass by, but then Itry to catch up.
And I still keep a spiritualjournal to this day to ask
myself and to look at where Isee God at work, not only in my

(01:25:52):
life, but the life of the churchand the world in which I live
in. And and I think that'simportant because if not, we
just once again, we just get socaught up in doing

T.J. (01:26:06):
Mhmm.

Steve (01:26:06):
That we forget about being and and and and what it is
that god is saying to us in ourlife.

T.J. (01:26:14):
Yeah. Yeah. That's a hard exercise for me. Steve, thank
you for giving me your entiremorning, and it's been
interesting to watch. This willbe edited out, but to watch you
juggle, between our faithconversation and your faith

(01:26:38):
journey in the midst ofdifferent pastoral care
opportunities that have come toyour office today unexpected.
So it's been a blessing to be apart of that and also to to be
able to watch you work and shareof yourself, and I thank you for
that, Steve.

Steve (01:26:57):
Alright. I thank you for this opportunity, and we'll talk
soon.

T.J. (01:27:04):
Thank you for listening to this episode of Cumberland Road.
I want to express my gratitudefor all the guests and for the
listeners and for yourunderstanding as I grow as a
host, and in my listeningskills, and in my curiosity to

(01:27:28):
hear how God is working throughothers' lives and have the
ability to be able to share thisgood news with others. I
recently come across these wordsby Henri Nouwen. You might have
already discovered for yourselfhow radically different
traveling alone is fromtraveling together. I have found

(01:27:52):
over and over again how hard itis to be truly faithful to Jesus
when I am alone. I need mybrothers or sisters to pray with
me, to speak with me about thespiritual task at hand, and to
challenge me to stay pure inmind, heart, and body.