John Howell

John Howell lived out a dream. He played 8-man football in a very small Nebraska town. Some folks scoffed when John set his sights on playing Division I football, specifically at Colorado State University. When he got a call to be the last person in camp because another guy backed out, John drove straight to Fort Collins and joined the team as a walk on. While he did play and letter his freshman year, John had trouble connecting with teammates and felt like he was an anonymous scout team punching bag. So he quit. He also quit going to school and flunked nearly every class. During winter break back in Nebraska, John realized he was proving the naysayers right. So he went back to Fort Collins and got “word whipped” by a coach for his grades. But that verbal shakedown didn’t make John mad, he was happy because he realized the coaches actually knew his name.

John had an outstanding career as a safety for CSU and went on to be drafted by the Tampa Bay Bucs where he played for four years and won a Super Bowl. The Super Bowl victory came after his second season, a season he almost didn’t have because John experienced a “freak out” of anxiety at the start of training camp and left. After a 10-day hiatus, where he received some invaluable mental encouragement from other pros, John returned and the Bucs welcomed him back. He’d play two more seasons with the Seattle Seahawks and called it quits after a nagging hamstring injury wouldn’t heal.

These days John runs a hunting ranch at Dismal River in the same town where he grew up. He’s also married to his college sweetheart Laura, and they keep up with three very athletic children who play sports at the pro, college and high school levels.

Hosted by Susie Wargin

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
I was a fish out of water. I was a country kid, you
know, that had lectures that wehad more people than my hometown. It
was brutal. Nobody knew my nameat first. It was just the freshman,
the scholarships, and walk ons forthe first three days of practice,
and I thought that was the team. And I'm like, wow, this
isn't too bad. I'm just asgood as these cats, you know,

(00:22):
no big deal. And I rememberwhen the varsity rolled in on day three,
I thought, why are the DenverBroncos here? Man? It blew
my mind. Welcome to cut,Traded, Fired, Retired, and Conversation
number fifty. Wow. Of coursethat number doesn't matter chronologically because you can
listen to episodes in any order thatyou'd like. But it's been nearly a

(00:44):
year since I started releasing these conversations, and I am still astounded by the
number of stories I hear that Inever knew about, and also how truly
open and honest my guests have beenabout their past, their struggles, and
their triumphs. This has been thecoolest project. I'm your host, Susie
Wartz. It would be easy tolook at John Howell's career and think what
a success story. Eight man footballin Nebraska, walked on at Colorado State,

(01:07):
earned a scholarship, was drafted inthe NFL, and won a Super
Bowl. Pretty amazing resume. Butwhat you don't hear are the low points.
John lost his dad when he wastwelve. He stopped going to class
his freshman year at CSU and wasready to quit before his second year in
the NFL and Tampa, he prettymuch had a panic attack and drove home
to Nebraska. John has always beentough as nails on the outside, but

(01:30):
under that country boy's skin, he'sgot some layers, just like we all
do. Thanks to his faith,some incredible coaches, and his family.
The standout safety from CSU worked throughthe tough times and life is pretty darn
good. Now in retirement, let'sget started, ladies and gentlemen, John
Howell Got Traded Fired Retired podcast withSusie Wargin. Hello John Howell, how

(01:53):
you doing. I'm good? Howare you good? Good? Thank you
so much for having me. Absolutely, it is so fun to have fellow
ram In here. Oh, Iappreciate that. Likewise, a long time
ago, Ram I mean I wasdoing sidelines for CSU in ninety eight and
ninety nine. So during a coupleof years a year, you're heyday there.
Yeah, that's right. We hadsome good years back then. We
did have some good years back then. Yeah, So this is really fun

(02:15):
to have you come in here todayand kind of go through You've got such
a cool story about starting out justeight man football in Nebraska. You're born
in North Platte, Nebraska, Right. I was born in North Platte because
that was the closest hospital that's rightto Mullin, Okay, And how many
people live in Mullin, Nebraska Aboutfour hundred and fifty Wow? Yeah,

(02:37):
Yeah, big metropolis. Oh mygosh. Okay. So you play football,
you wrestle, you do track andfield and golf. Did you start
playing sports really early in life?How did you get into everything? Yeah?
Small town country living. You grewup working early and playing sports early.
Right. I mean I had myfirst paiding job at nine years old.

(02:57):
I'm not sure that's allowed anymore.Right. I have a similar story
like that. I was answering phonesand setting up showings at remacs when I
was twelve, and I'm like,what were you doing letting a twelve year
old have a lockbox combinations. Thingswere different back then. Were What did
you do at nine years old?I was building fence? Oh jeezus,
yep, yep. My mom wouldsend me a lunch and because I wanted
to work on the ranch with mydad, and my dad said, you'll

(03:19):
work, but you're not going towork with me, because he knew there
would be certain things that, youknow, I could take advantage of being
his son. And so I wentwith another hired man and left the house
at six am, got back atfive pm and had my lunch, and
he was my boss. All buildingfences at nine yep. Well that's a
heck of a way to get awork ethic, John Well, I tell
people I have my PhD post holedigging, so you know what that's good.

(03:43):
So when people need help with thoseposts because they're a huge pain in
the butt, yep, we callyou. That's right, okay, perfect,
Good to know it might be theonly thing I'm good at. So
you do sports? When did footballbecome or did it not become the main
love until later in life? Itwas my main love as far as I
remember, okay, And I don'treally know how it became that way other

(04:04):
than growing up in the country.We had one channel and it was KNOP
TV out of North Platte, andit was it was NBC. They showed
one team and that was the DenverBroncos because that was the closest team.
So I remember being a huge fanof John Elway because I loved football and
he had the same first name asme. So as a little kid,

(04:25):
I thought, man, that's cool. So number seven was my hero.
And I was a Broncos fan backin the days with the three Super Bowl
losses and all that. So Itook a lot of grief. And Nebraska,
you know, there's no professional sportsteam except for Nebraska except for the
Huskers. That's right. That iseverything in that state. And so but

(04:45):
there's people that will kind of glamonto the Chiefs or the Vikings, you
know, maybe the Packers everybody,but there's not really one team. But
I was the only person in town, a four hundred and fifty that liked
the Denver Broncos. I had onebuddy, one other little buddy of mine,
and we were Broncos fans. Butit was rough in early years.
Oh that's funny. So did youwant to be a quarterback or did you
like defense more quarterback. That wasmy dream of being a quarterback. And

(05:08):
I'd go out in the yard andthrow the ball to myself. You know.
I had two older sisters, butthey weren't interested, so I'd run
around the backyard. I didn't getto go to town a whole lot,
but when I did, i'd gettogether with some buddies and we'd play football
in the park. But we didn'thave organized youth football. First time we
could play football was in seventh gradeand it was eight man football. But
wrestling was a huge sport in thatlittle town. If you had a pair

(05:29):
of tennis shoes, t shirt andshorts, you could go wrestle. You
know, wait, did you wrestle? Oh my goodness. I wrestled every
weight since I was fifty five pounds. I wrestled since I Oh yeah,
I wrestled since I was four yearsold. But in high school my senior
year, your senior year, Idid yep, and I cut twenty pounds
you know wrestlers or goofy like that. I weighed like one eighty my senior
year and I cut down to onesixty. So, oh my gosh,

(05:51):
John, Yeah, yeah, AndI didn't have it to lose like I
do now, right, you know, I yeah, I was in high
school. I wasn't good shape,but yeah, wrestling was big sport in
our little town. Wow. Andthen track and field? What did you
do there? Track and field?All the sprints? Right? And the
reason I went out for golf myfreshman year because I thought, oh,
you know, I need a breakbecause I just finished, you know,

(06:11):
high school football, high school wrestling. I'm going to golf And might have
been the only year I played morethan two rounds of golf my entire life.
But shortly then after, I learned, you know what, if I
want to be a better football player, tracks going to be a better option
for me. And so ran trackand ran the sprints and the relays and
all that. And how'd you doin those? Good? We won state

(06:34):
in a couple of the relays mysenior year. So when did because you
walked on at CSU, did youget offers with smaller schools when you were
in high school? Or how didColorado State come on your radar? Well,
so here's the story behind that.Growing up in a small town playing
eight man football, you don't havea ton of offers coming through the door.
Right, Scots by a lot ofScouts. No, that's exactly right.

(06:56):
So we've sent our kids over theyears to ton and tons of camps.
Right when I was a kid ina remote location, my mom my
dad died when I was twelve yearsold, so it's just my mom and
my two sisters. She could sendme to one camp. A year.
Before my freshman year, I wentto Shattern State Football Camp, Division two
school in western Nebraska. Before mysophomore year, I went to Hastings.

(07:17):
Before my junior and went to Nebraska, and before my senior year, I
went to Colorado State. So thestory behind all of that is I was
getting interest from Shattern State because thereare a couple hours down the road and
they're used to kind of recruiting smalltown kids, being a Division two program
in the state of Nebraska. Sothey were the only school that offered me

(07:39):
any type of a scholarship. Andback then it was one of their better,
bigger offers, and I think it'slike twelve hundred bucks a semester something
like that. It's big times,right, oh man, big time,
which was great. I loved it. I respected it. There's still a
couple of coaches from that team thatI keep in touch with. Matter of
fact, billow Boyle, who isthe online coach for CEU now, he

(07:59):
was the OC at Chattern State duringthat time. I was part of that
staff that offered me that big lucrativescholarship. But I just always had dreams
and envisioned playing Division one football.I just always believe in myself from an
early age. Whatever it was.I guess I was just naive enough as
a kid to think that you know, hey, you know I work hard
enough and it'll happen. That wasalways my mentality. I was never the

(08:22):
biggest, I was never the fastest, but I just had to work ethic
that. I was always the hardestworker in the weight room, on the
field. I was always getting extrawork. You know. I would work
on the ranch in the summertime andthen everybody go to town and party.
I'd go to town to lift weights. I mean, that's what I would
do. And I was disciplined ata young age, but I knew that's
what it was going to take.And I remember the meeting my senior year

(08:46):
was Shattern State. They were offeringa couple other kids on my team,
and they've got us all in thesame room. Coach of Boyle was in
there. He might remember this,I don't know, but they asked everybody
said we need your commitment. Areyou coming here? You know we've given
your scholarship offers, and what areyou going to do? First buddy on
the left said yep. Next buddyon the right said yep, I'm coming.
It comes to me and the headcoach, his name was Brad Smith,
and he looked at me says,John, what are you going to

(09:07):
do. We'd love to have youhere. We're giving you our best scholarship.
I said, coach, I hadno idea how much I appreciate the
opportunity. But my dream is toplay Division one football and I'm going to
walk on a Colorado state And helooked me in the eyes, an eighteen
year old young man, and hesays, you would have played here.
You're going to go there and sitthe bench. Oh, I said,
okay, And that's the last wordshe spoke to me. I got up

(09:28):
and said thank you guys, andI left the room and two buddies stayed
in there, and that was it. Those are bulletin board words, big
time. Yeah exactly, And sothe reason I walked on at Colorado State
is I went to a football campthere before my senior year. My sister
was living in four Collins at thetime and my brother in law. My
brother in law really helped raise meafter my dad died, and so he

(09:50):
was my mentor and my best friend, and you know, he was that
father figure in my life at thattime. He was working construction in Fort
Collins and they were living out there. So my senior year would come visit
them in between sports, me andmy buddies and we go ski in and
do that type of stuff. AndI fell in love with the campus at
CSU. And that was during thesame time. That was around ninety four
ninety five when coach Lubeck was thereand they started winning a lot of football

(10:13):
games. So I said, well, for my senior year, I'm going
to go to a football camp there. So I did, and I had
a really good camp, and theyactually got me on their recruiting list,
which was pretty cool, and theywere gonna come watch me play in a
game my senior year in Mullen,Nebraska eight man football, at least that's
what I was told. And theywere staying in contact with me, well,
I broke my leg my senior yearin a game YEP, early on.

(10:33):
I think it was like game five. They never obviously came out and
watched me play. After football wasover, I got my cast off and
I started wrestling, end up winningstate as a senior. As soon as
state wrestling was over, I contactedCSU, just whoever I could get ahold
of them, and they said,yeah, we kind of remember who you
are, but we don't have anyscholarships available. We'll put you on the
list and if there's room, youcan come walk on at fall camp.

(10:56):
Otherwise, not much of an opportunity. Maybe in school starts. And this
is days before email and things likethat, so you're making phone calls.
I assume are you writing letters?These were phone calls okay, over the
landline phone because there was no YEP. I made VHS tapes and my highlights,
the actual VHS tapes full game andhighlights and cutting that up with the

(11:20):
old two headed VHS monsters, rightyeah, and mailed that out to any
college I could get an address forphysically stuck a VHS tape. And again
you can't there's no Google, soyou're trying to find addresses for universities the
hard way. That's right, yep, talking to my high school guidance counselor
do you have any of these addresses? You know? But in those one
football camp a year, that andsending out those tapes, how I get

(11:43):
recognized, networked? That's right.So I continue to work and train that
spring and that summer, just hopingI would get a phone call from CSU
saying, hey, you're invited tofall camp. The night before fall camp
started, I got a call andthey said, I believe at the time
you could have one hundred and fiveon the roster, and they said,

(12:03):
we're at one hundred and four.We had a kid call, said he
not coming back. We have onespot. They said, can you be
here tomorrow? If not, we'recalling the next guy. So I saw,
I'll be there. Coach. Idon't even remember. I don't know
who it was. I loaded upmy old Fort Bronco I drove five hours
to Fort Collins, Colorado. Ihad no clue where to go. I
forgot to ask, hey, wheredo I report? And you got the

(12:24):
map in your car because there's nothingon your phone. That's exactly right,
That's exactly right. So I droveto the football field, the practice field.
Because I had been there for thatcamp, I knew how to get
there. So I got there likefive third in the morning, and I
just stood there and waited until somebodyshowed up. Oh. John, Yeah,
and ron Lee was a defensive backscoach, and he came walking out

(12:45):
with a bunch of scholarship kids toshow him the field and do whatever.
He said, who are you numberone oh five? Yeah, that's right,
I'm number one oh five. AndI told him. I said I'm
John Howell. And he said whatare you doing here? And I said,
I'm here to play football and hesaid what position? I said,
wherever you want me. I didn'teven know who he was. And he
said, well, I gotta getyou in touch with somebody, and had

(13:07):
a guy come down and got megoing. That was, oh my gosh,
that's crazy. Had you enrolled inc issue? I had not,
because I didn't have a clue ifI was even going to be able to
go there, And so they kindof had to fast track things to get
me, you know, get meenrolled and get me going as a walk
on. And the first few weeksthat whole year was pretty rough. Susie.

(13:30):
It was. It was rough.I was a fish out of water.
I was a country kid, youknow, that had lectures that were
had more people than my hometown buildingculture. Shock. Absolutely absolutely so.
It was brutal. Nobody knew myname. I didn't fit in, you
know. Well, I just Iwas that scout team All American that was

(13:54):
ticking the varsity off every day becauseI've gone way too hard, you know.
I had no clue what practice etiquettemint. I just knew, just
go as hard as you can.And I end up playing as a true
freshman. You lettered that year,I did, yeah, which is another
crazy story because from day one,at first, it was just the freshman,
the scholarships and walk ons for thefirst three days of practice to kind

(14:16):
of get and I thought that wasthe team. And I'm like, wow,
this isn't too bad. I'm justas good as these cats, you
know, no big deal. AndI remember when the varsity rolled in on
day three, I thought, whyare the Denver Broncos here? Man?
It blew my mind. Everybody allof a sudden got twice as big and
twice as fast, right, ohmy gosh. And practice tempo was nine

(14:39):
hundred miles an hour. I wentfrom coaches really didn't know who I was
as a walk onto they did noteven care. They needed how it is.
I was a body. Yeah youremember Anthony Sosario. Oh yeah,
Anthony sorry, was a dear friendof mine, okay, and he was
All American offensive lineman, drafted Ithink third round of the Dolphins, right,
and three year starter at CSU andlove the guy, right, tragic

(15:00):
story about Anthony died way too young, right. But he was the man,
big old monster and just dominated.And I was a scout team linebacker
and it was the second day ofpractice and we're like in shells or something.
Back then. He didn't have allthat. You could go right into
it, you know, and hewould pull around and I was supposed to
step up and give him a look, and he would just drill me as
hard as he could and drive meback five yards, you know, and

(15:22):
I'm like, I'm not going totake this. And so the next time
he came out and I met himhalfway and I hit him right under the
chin, popped him hard, knockedhim down right, and he got up
and that big boy was so mad, grabbed ahold of me, slammed me
to the ground. The old linejumped on me and I got pummeled right
there, right, and I justand I was just mad. But that's
how I practiced, right, Andhe eventually brought me in. He said,

(15:46):
John, he said, we gotto teach you something called practice etiquette,
you know. And he took meunder his wing. And from then
on it was amazing. But thatwhole year I was that way. And
so when it came time, wewere about a five hundred team and not
doing great, but they needed tospark on special teams. So let's go
with the psycho walk on kid thatwe don't even really know his name.

(16:07):
And they said, we need aspark, and so we started putting me
on kickoff and that's what I did. I was a wedgebuster, Yep,
that's what I did. And soI played on special teams. And what
happened during that year was all ofour running backs started getting hurt. They
moved me to running back. Scoutteam thought I was a safety, but
I played quarterback and eight man football, which is basically another running back,

(16:29):
right, And so before we playedNebraska that year my freshman year, they're
like, we need an option stylequarterback. On scout team John Howell.
That's basically what he ran an offense, so we're gonna put him over there.
So they moved me to running back. Calvin Branch got her, Damon
Washington got her. Kevin McDougall wasstill back and forth between safety and running
back. All of a sudden,I was the second string running back on

(16:52):
the depth chart as a walk onfreshman that nobody knew my name, and
it made our OC so mad whenI would go to take a rep because
he didn't even know who I was, and he just was furious about the
whole situation. He grabbed me bymy face mask, yanked me out of
the drill, cussed me out,say get me a real ff and running
back in here. And I neverforget it. Wow. And I reminded
him of that a few years laterwhen he went to San Diego State and

(17:15):
we beat him and I was starting. I said, hey, I appreciate
you never believing in me, coach. It was motivation, you know.
But that was my freshman year andI hated it, Susie. I absolutely
hated every day of it. AndI'm really yep. I hated every day
even though I was playing. Ididn't have any friends. It wasn't fitting
in. I didn't feel like itwas just it was just a different you
know, it was just a differentgame. Right, You wish you'd gone

(17:37):
to Shadron State. I was startinga question. I was starting a question
and so funny story. I'm like, I'm gonna quit. I'm gonna quit.
I'm gonna make it through this semester. I had a girlfriend back home.
It was a senior in high school. You know, missed home,
missed growing up in the country,missed all attired of the city. Right,
Yeah, so I stopped going class. I just quit going to class,
Susie, Okay, well, Iwas under the radar because I just

(18:00):
walk on. They weren't checking upon me. You know, they're checking
up on them scholarship boys, right, making sure attendance is where it needs
to be. They got them instudy hall, not me. So I
flunked every single class except for aerobics. Aerobics. I got like a D
in aerobics. Oh my gosh.Because I wasn't gonna come back. I'm

(18:21):
like, screw this, this isterrible. Why bother? Right? And
I get back home for Christmas?Break seasons over and I'm back home,
man, And there's the old weightroom, right, that's the size of
a closet. There's the football field, there's the park where I grew up
with all these dreams. I'm like, what are you doing? Man?
This isn't perfect for you. Thisisn't that what you wanted. You know
what. You're just gonna quit,you know? And I said, nah,

(18:44):
that's not me, right. I'vebeen through too much, I've worked
too hard, and too many peoplehave doubted me. I'm not proving them
right. And so I went backand begin The phones weren't a big They
didn't call me and say, whatthe heck were you doing. First time
I saw a coach was after thebreak, like January fifteenth, whatever,
And I remember walking down the hallwayin Moby to the weight room with Tony

(19:06):
Federico for our first lift back,and I ran into our running backs coach,
Coach Delaney. Oh Mick Delaney lovedthe man, yea, And he
word whipped me the worst I haveever had it in my life. I
thought he was going to punch me, like he was so mad at me
because of my grades, right,But about halfway through him just browbeating me.

(19:30):
I got happy. I got excitedbecause he cares. He cares that
I'm eligible. That's the first timeI really felt because I played. But
it's just like, oh, theyjust needed somebody. They didn't care about
my eligibility, right, and nota big deal. And when Mick Delaney
was getting after me, I rememberthinking, for the first time, they
care about me. And they did, and they got me into you know

(19:52):
program and got me oh man,a lot of tutoring, and I worked
my tail off that spring and summerto get eligible. But I was a
little walk on. Coach Lubeck broughtme in, two other walk ons in
and said, we have two scholarshipsavailable at the end of this semester.
Two of you guys will get it, one of you won't. So it's
a competition there. It is.It's how you did things back then,
right, You just laid it outthere. And they were great guys.

(20:14):
Lucas Mauer and Chris Roberts love thoseguys. And we worked hard to the
whole offseason. They moved me backto safety. I had a really good
spring. I finished fifth on thewhole team in this big weight room speeding
agility competition thing is a true freshman. I thought, that's good. You
know, that's a big deal.And I remember we all had our meetings
back to back to back. School'sout, we're done, we've got a
break. And Lucas goes in andhe does not get it. Chris Roberts

(20:38):
goes in. He gets it.So I'm like, there's one left.
I'm getting it. And we're buddies, right, we were three walk on
buddies. We're talking like, John, it's great. I tease Lubick about
it. But I walked into hisoffice. First thing. He says,
Johnny, I want to have ascholarship for you. And I'm like,
what do you mean? Coaches's twoavailable? There's three of us. You
know, Lucas didn't get it.You know, there's one left. He
says, sorry, John, wegot this. That whatever is is where

(21:00):
of scholarship? And man, Iwas mad, and but this is coach
Lubick, right, And I haveso much respect for this guy. And
you know, I just felt likeI had done everything needed and deserved that
scholarship, you know, And Ijust said, Coach, here's the deal.
I can't afford to come back hereanother year. I chose Colorado State
for these reasons, and if youcan tell me what I could have done

(21:21):
differently to earn that scholarship, I'lldo my best to come back. But
if you can't tell me, I'vegot to find somewhere else to go.
And he couldn't tell me. Igot up and I shook his hand and
I said, I've got to gosomewhere else. I said, because I
deserved that scholarship. And I walkedout of his office. The next morning,
I got a phone call from coachLubic. They found one. They

(21:41):
oh my goodness, yea, AndI get it right. And Lubeck is
the best coach I've ever had inmy life. And I love that man
and what he did for me thatyear and every year following, and even
when I was in the league,the mentor he was to me, I
could never repay him. But it'sa business, right, And we've got
a kid it'll pay to come toschool here, and we've got a scholarship

(22:02):
to give to somebody who you know, maybe we won't get if we don't
offer him that. You know,you only get so many, you only
get twenty three, right, right, Let's do what we can. It's
a business. But when I kindof called her bluff and said, I'm
not coming back. I didn't haveanywhere else to go. Where was I
going to go? He didn't needto know that, though, He didn't
need to know that. That's right. That was probably my first lesson in
sales. Perfect. Yeah, that'sexactly right. Oh my gosh, that's

(22:25):
crazy. So you get the scholarship, then going into your sophomore year,
that's right, your second year,okay, so you play that year,
you letter that year, and thenfrom there on you play safety from there
on out. Right, So thenyour third year you're there, you have
an injury and you red shirt.Yeah. That had to be kind of
weird doing that in between everything.It was, and it was such a
blessing looking back at it, becauseI needed five years in college. I

(22:48):
really did that. And whole notgoing to class thing. Yeah, that
that too, that as well.Right. That year was the year we
rolled up to Michigan State and webeat them, and then we came back
here. Man. We were feelinggood and probably a little bit over confident,
came into Mile High Stadium and gotwhooped by CU and that damp in
our powder a little bit. Butearly in the season, I pulled a

(23:10):
hamstring in practice. I think Iran down on one kickoff in the CU
game, pulled it again, tookabout six seven weeks, couldn't get back,
and they've just said we're gonna doa medical redshirt. Junior senior year.
Came back and started and felt good. Yeah. And with those hamstrings,
I mean, they're just so hardto come back from. It might
as well take off the season ifyou can. Yeah, there's so much

(23:30):
more they do for him now thanthey did twenty years ago. Right,
Oh my goodness, you probably watchand we'll get to this. But Jack
being up at CSU now, ifthe accommodations are so much different, goodness
than when you were there. Yep, back in the old days, even
in Tampa and Seattle, because Ihad a hamstring issues with them, you
know, iceenstim icenstem licensed, tim, that's all you could do. In

(23:51):
fact, my last year with Seattle, I had to sign a waiver basically
part of my contract that said ifI pulled my hamstring again, they could
release me without pay. It's sucha ticking time bomb it was back then.
I had a GM tell me,we would rather take a chance with
a guy who's had knee surgery thana guy who has chronic campturing injuries.
No kidding, Yeah, wow,interesting. Yeah, But anyways, I
missed that year and that was arough year. We had more talent on

(24:15):
that team that year, Susie,so many guys went to the league.
But it's a great story. It'sa great lesson and I used with high
school kids today. More talent onthat team and we were barely five hundred
that year, missed a bowl gamebecause it was so much individual is right.
And the next couple of years notnear the talent, but we had
some of the best years we've everhad at c ISSUE because you were more
of a team absolutely, yeah,Abs. Interesting Yeah, So you go

(24:37):
through the two thousand season, that'syour last year at CSU. Two thousand
and one, you go to theNFL Draft, that's right. What was
leading up to that? Did yougo to combine? Did you know kind
of where you were going to bein the draft? Allegedly yes, allegedly
right exactly. Had agents calling mysenior year at the beginning, and it
was a classic Oh man, I'mgetting calls from agent. This has happening.

(25:00):
You know, I'm getting some interestand I'm trying to make every play,
trying to make every tackle, youknow what, I'm thinking about it
the whole game, right, whichis not good? Not good, and
I'm not playing well. And finally, and I just didn't really have anybody.
I had some older veteran players thatwere kind of helping out, you
know, and coaching me up onthat stuff. But basically it's like,
man, I just got to goback to having fun. This is the

(25:21):
way I've always played the game,just passionate and having fun. And because
why'd you start thinking about things?You can't be the player that you want
to be. Your need That's right, exactly so. But ended up,
you know, that was a greatsenior year. We won the Liberty Bowl.
We beat Louisville and the Liberty Bowlthat year. Didn't get invited to
any of the All Star Games,which kind of surprised me. Interesting,

(25:45):
yep, But I did get invitedto the Combine. Our coaching staff had
a good relationship with Tampa Bay Buccaneersbecause that's what we modeled our defense out
at CSU Old Tampa two, MontiKiffin and those guys, and Sunny has
passed with That's right. A lotof them ye with Lane Kiffin or Monty
Kiffin Lane and Chris Lane was aGA at Colorado State when I was there.
That was where that's where he cuthis team. Interesting, ye,

(26:07):
okay. And then the younger son, Monty's younger son, Chris, he
was a player at the issue.So there was a relationship there, yes,
and so they knew. Tampa Bayknew I knew their defense really well
and had a relationship with our staff. But I did well at the Combine.
I did really well at to Combine, and I remember Tampa Bay telling
my agent like, well, heincreased his stock to the point where I
don't know if we don't know ifwe'll get him now. And so that

(26:30):
was good news, right. ButI had the decordinator from Dallas fly in
and worked me out. They draftedsafety in the second round. Come to
find out, it's kind of betweenme and that other kid, and they
ended up drafting him. But Iwas projected third fourth round, so I
kind of knew. And not alwaysis that right? A lot of times
it's not. In fact, nineNews said Joah, we want to come

(26:52):
to your house during draft. Isaid, absolutely not. Blake Olsen,
I said, no way, Blakenot happening, man, because I don't
want those cameras rolling. And asChris gets turpin because I'm not getting a
phone call. That's embarrassing. It'sso embarrassing. He said, well,
he made a deal. He's like, we won't turn the cameras on unless
you get a call. And I'mlike, all right, man. So
we're sitting there and I got abunch of family, right, and so
you let Blake go. I lethim come out. And Blake was the

(27:15):
host of the Sunny Lubig Show beforeI was at nine News, So you
got to know Blake well because nineNews had such a great relationship with Csuya.
That's right, Yeah, that's great. I'm glad he was there.
Oh yeah, it was cool.So he was there, cameraman, had
family there and everything course landline phoneand the cell phone. So we're watching.
I knew it really wasn't going tobe day one. Back then it
was rounds one, two and threeDay one, than it was four or

(27:36):
five to six Day two. Thoughtmore of that four or five round four
or five is where I was goingto go. And it was in Fort
Collins, his own a little apartmentas my wife and our daughter. We
had her daughter, Jalen at thetime, yep. She was just a
baby, my mom and everybody,her parents, and so he had the
whole crew there, and I toldeverybody who wasn't there, you can't call
me on this day. Please don'tcall me on this day, right,

(27:57):
And people don't listen, That's right, they don't listen exactly. So early
in the day, I got acall from a cousin and the phone rang
and I'm like, everybody's excited.Cameras are rolling, Oh this John just
wanna wish you good luck. I'mlike, oh, thank you, but
don't call right right, you can'tcall me. And so it gets in
about the middle of the fourth roundand there's some teams that I know were

(28:18):
interested in me, Pittsburgh Steelers,Denver, Detroit, and Tampa Bay.
They all have some picks kind ofin a row right in the middle of
the fourth round. And it's gettingright to that point, and we had
a snowstorm. It's in April,right, Colorado, good old car and
the power goes out, power goesout, tv yo, yep, And
I'm like, i don't know whatpicked they're on. I don't know who's
picking. And it was out fora while, and so I'm sitting there

(28:41):
and I'm kind of pouting, like, gosh, dang it, you know,
blah blah blah. Well landline phoneright it rings and I get up
and I'm just like, what cousinis at this time? Type of the
deal MOBU, you know, andanswer the phone and it was Coach Dungee.
He said, John, this CoachDungee, Tampa Bay Buck. And
he's like, hey, coach,how you do it? And I look
around, where's that up? Andhe says you won't come and play for
the Buccaneers. I said, yeah, Coach, I do. And he

(29:03):
says, well, we're gonna takeyou next pick. And I said,
I got to take your word forit, coach, because the powers out
and I can't see the TV.And he died laughing over the phone,
and I can hear everybody in thebackground laughing. I turned around, I
said, Tampa Bay and everybody startchearing and hollering and everything. A little
bit later, the power comes onand that's when I saw my name on
the ticker for the first time.You know, that had to be a
really neat moment. It was cool. Yeah, it was amazing. Yeah,

(29:26):
like there's not enough. And especiallyback then, it's not like you're
like, well, let me justlook at my phone because I can get
it. I mean, kids nowdon't understand what it was like when we
were growing up, not having accessto everything at all times. That's right.
Nothing, never really do things thehard way. That's exactly right.
Said, take your word. Man, that's a great story. So Tony
is your coach, then your rookieseason in Tampa Bay, that's right.

(29:49):
What was it like going You talkedabout what it was like going from eight
man football to CSU. Going fromCSU to the pros, it was equally
as big of a shot, ifnot more. Really, Oh yeah,
because you know, CSU became family. I eventually got some of the best
friends of my life, right,and coaches and everything. And it's still

(30:11):
small enough community, family close by, relatively close to moving to the end
of the country, right, theopposite end and not knowing anybody and really
into a business yep, big timebusiness. Right, yeah, and talk
about nobody, no one or Karen. Right, it was your walk on
season all over again. Right,It really was. It really was,

(30:33):
And I questioned again, it wasjust all that over again, I really
questioned how much do you love thesport of football? How much do you
want to do this? And thething about college football, I felt like
it was still pure enough. Therewas before Nils and before any of that
stuff. Right, And those areyour boys, and you're eating ramen noodles,
right, and five of you toa house type of a thing.

(30:53):
You know, nobody's making any money, and he just loved to play the
game. And if he's driving ajunker car and at the league, and
you know, guys are married,guys got their own family, right,
and you'd show up, you goto work, and you go home,
and that whole mentality of I'd ratherplay good and lose than to play bad
and win, because this is mycareer, right, and this is how

(31:14):
I get paid. And anytime youknow, you have money involved in that
magnitude, it does take away thepurity of it. You know, it
really does. There's just no wayaround it. And that affected me,
right, It bothered me Like Iwas the type of guy that yes or
no, sort of my coaches.You respect your coach like you would your
dad, and you just you kindof don't have that at that level and
it bothered me, just the wholereally culture of it. It just bothered

(31:37):
me. And it always took mea while to get to know guys,
right because I just was to myselfand I had a family at the time
too. My daughter was young,my wife were married. We were expecting
our second kid at the time.And so you guys got married in college
on my junior year and then hada second one come in your rookie season.
Yes, second will come from arookie year. And that's a lot.
Yeah, yeah, it was.It was a lot. Again,

(32:00):
another tough transition. But Dungee wasamazing. He's everything that you think or
want him to be from what yousee and hear about him and read his
book and everything. I mean,just amazing man of faith, right.
And I remember him saying, youknow, at the beginning of the year,
guys, when we cut a rosterdown to fifty three, I don't
know if we're going to have thebest football players, but we're gonna have
the best men. And that washis philosophy and that's how he did things.

(32:22):
And the byproduct of that was apretty successful coaching tenures. For you
to go from Sonny Lubic to TonyDungee. I think it is very fortunate
because I hear a lot of guystalk about, you know, they went
from this great college coach and thenwhen they went into the NFL, they
went into a total crap show.You know, had a coach that didn't
care or an ownership that didn't care, and just not only is it very

(32:43):
different from college, but then yourstructure of coaching is so very different.
So I think it was amazing thatyou could go from two in between two
amazing coaches. Oh yeah, itwas. And guess who my defensive backs
coach was his first year coaching inthe league was my first year in the
league. And a guy named MikeTomlin. Oh you're kidding. Oh no,

(33:04):
dang, what a dream? Ohmy goodness. And I remember Mike
Tomlin was on the Tampa Bay staffback then. I feel like you've just
been with the Steelers since he waslike twelve. Yeah, right, exactly
one hundred percent. He didn't coachvery many years in college. He was
that guy. He climbed so quickly, didn't he. Yeah, and Monty
Kiffin gave him his first chance asa defense But I remember John Lynch and

(33:28):
Ronde Barber and those guys Derek Brooksfrom day one after being in a meeting
with Tomlin, They're like that dude'sgoing to be a head coach one day.
So that was probably very helpful tohave those kind of coaches and the
kind of players you just mentioned,Hall of famers, Ronde Barber, who
just went in, John Lynch.I mean you've got a handful of future
Hall of famers right there on thatteam. Four guys from that defense alone,

(33:50):
Sap Brooks, Ronde Barber, JohnLynch. Four guys from that one
team on the defense. Yeah.Yeah. Well, and as we fast
forward, we get through your rookieseason, two thousand and two comes around,
Tony Dungee gets fired. John Grudencomes in in some weird trade from
the Raiders and then he's now yourhead coach. You guys go to the
Super Bowl. Yeah, that's right, and there's hall of famers on that.

(34:12):
They had the number one offense inOakland against the number one defense in
Tampa Bay. Yeah. Yeah.When Gruden came in and it was great
man and Dungee was, like Isaid, amazing, and he built that
team right, He put that teamtogether, especially the defense. When John
came in. He brought in theoffense, right, and he brought in
I think he just brought in thatspark, right, that swag, that
flare. And I remember watching himon Jay Leno. I think it was

(34:37):
when he was at Oakland and Itold my wife, I said, I
hope I can play for that guyone day, No kid, Yeah,
because his energy was just off theright. He's just the motivator to a
different level. And so when hegot hired and they did that whole trade
thing and everything, I was sofired up. And it was my second
year and John came in, buthe just provided the offense and he just
provided that spark, just that motivation, you know, to just get us

(34:58):
over that hump because we were alwaysso close under Dungee for a long time.
And he kept the defense pretty wellintact when he came in, right,
he kept the whole defensive staff together, Monty Kiff and Mike Joe,
Barry, Rod Marinelli. You know, those were legendary coaches and he kept
those guys together, but brought ina new staff to have that coach that
can either adapt or you have theexact same coaches. That's huge for success,

(35:20):
that's right. You know those familiarities, right, and if it's not
broke, don't fix it. That'swhy I love head coaches that come in
and they immediately get to know andfind out what made the program successful in
the past, when it was successfulor the little successes, what was that.
And they bring in alumni, right, they talked to a Sonny Lubick,
like, what are the things thatyou did right to make you the
best coach the issues ever had?Type of thing like Norvelle's done. When

(35:44):
coaches come in and they just wipethe whole slate clean, it just to
me, it's and I get it, man, I understand you have your
system, but I think there's alot of value in keeping some of the
good things. Absolutely, yeah,you have to, and if you ignore
the things that worked in the past, I just think that's such a travesty.

(36:05):
You have to tap into your alumni, like you said, and I
think, especially in a college program, it really comes into effect. But
I noticed the Broncos are doing moreof that too. They've got, you
know, their alumni boards, gettingmore involved, having guys come talk to
players, and I think it's hugebecause games have changed, everything's changed,
and I l's changed the whole collegegame. But to have that perspective and
to know that there is a historythat people care about. I think there's

(36:28):
a lot to that too. Absolutely. I think that's part of being a
great leader. Absolutely. Yeah,for sure. Let's talk about the Super
Bowl. Ye going to the SuperBowl and your second year in the league.
I mean, how crazy was that? It was crazy? And to
back up a hair, in betweenmy rookie year and my second year,
training camp going into my second year, Gordon's head coach and I, man,

(36:50):
I went through a rough, roughmoment where training camp had just started.
It was the first night, andI came off my rookie year like
and this is tough? Is thisreally what I want to do? And
when you have those feelings as aprofessional football player, there's an overwhelming guilt
that comes across because like, you'reon top of the world. Man,

(37:12):
You're aware, you have always wantedto be this is what you've worked for,
You're making good money, you're apro athlete, you know, blah
blah, the whole worldly. Howmany people would love to be in your
position and you don't want to behere. You want to be back in
Nebraska. Fix and fence, whatis wrong with you type of a deal.
Yeah, and it got me.And the first night of training camp
and I'm locked in the hotel roomand here it's going to be four weeks

(37:36):
and not seeing my family, andhere we go again, and I can't
do this, and I call coachGrumen, Coach, I'm out, I
gotta go. He never asked me, he says John. He says,
I love you, man. Hesays, you let me know what you
need from me. And I leftand I drove home in the middle of
the night, Susie. I droveback to Tampa from Orlando, where we
had training camp. My family wasin Nebraska. Laura and the kids,

(38:00):
we're in Nebraska because they're like,he's training camp. We can't see him
anyways. But I had a big, like freak out, like anxiety.
Right. I didn't end up reportinga camp. I end up missing like
ten days a camp. As asecond year guy. They should cut my
butt, right, I should havebeen gone, Wow, did you just
hang out in Orlando or did youget back to Nebraska. I came back

(38:20):
to Nebraska because my agent, PeterSchaffer got a hold of me and he
says, we got to get youright. This was back before mental health
was absolutely I talked to so manyguys on this podcast about that that they
didn't take care of your minds then, Nope at all, not at all.
And if you had issues, youkept it to yourself because that was
a weakness. Didn't talk about it. You didn't do the one thing that

(38:43):
helps the most, talk about it, right, You kept that to yourself
because that's a weakness. I'm apro football player. I can't show that.
No way they'll cut me for thatreason alone. Right. What helped
me the most is when my agenthad dudes in the league. I mean
all of Fame guys call me,guys that I didn't know other than when

(39:04):
I was a kid. They weremy heroes. Said, Johnny, we
know what you're going through. Here'sthe deal, brother. And so it's
like, oh, I'm not alone. I'm not weird for feeling this way.
I'm not weak for feeling this way. These are big, grown men
that are icons in the industry.Can you mention anybody that called you that
made an impact? Willie roof hugethe things he said to me on the
phone, and just like one ofthe giants in the industry, right,

(39:28):
he was a big one, anda lot of other guys, and come
to find out, as I startedgetting more help, there's so many people
that were going through it, andnow we all know about it, right,
Yes, we still don't know theextent. It's pretty crazy, Susie.
Like, I have a buddy's theNFL team chaplain and I won't say
the team, but he says thebiggest job he has is Saturday nights going
around the hotel room talking guys outof quittin. Yep. It's a tough

(39:52):
racket, right. I don't expectanybody feel sorry for NFL football players.
I didn't expect hbody feel sorry forme. But you go through some stuff,
right, So why the Bucks andso many of those guys on the
staff and coaches didn't cut me.They stuck with me and believed to me.
I missed a third of training campand they took back, and they
took me back and that year andI had a really good year on special

(40:14):
teams. I came in for JohnLynch a few times. I sacked Michael
Vick and a pivot point a gameagainst the Falcons, and so I did
some good things that season. Wewent on to win the Super Bowl.
I led the team and special teamstackles in the in the game. That
was an amazing experience. Right,is everything you'd ever hoped it to be
growing up as a kid, sinceyou were four years old. What would

(40:35):
be like to play in a SuperBowl? It was that. It was
absolutely. So many things in lifedon't meet the expectations because you build it
up so big. It met thoseexpectations. And to think you started that
year quitting and driving Dawn home.Yep. Absolutely, And I'm a god
fear in man, Susie. Imean I really am, and praise God
because it was in his hands andit was his plan. But I learned
so much from the dirt road.My whole life has been a dirt road.

(40:59):
And your struggles that develop your strength. Right. You just have to
understand when you're going through those trials, there's a reason for it. It's
gonna mould you in shape. YouWhat did Laura say when you got back
to Nebraska, what are you doing? I love you, honey, and
I'm here for you, but whatare you doing? You know? But
she was awesome, you know,and she was like, Hey, if
this is it, this is it? You know, didn't marry you because

(41:20):
you're a football player, right,And so she was amazing. She was
confused, she didn't know how tohelp, Like so many people, what
do you say? What do youdo? Type of a thing, and
a lot of times there really isn'tmuch you can say, or do you
just be there for people? Right? And she was. She was there
for me, and I knew therewas no pressure to return, and that
was a big deal because if Iwould have felt like I had to return,

(41:45):
it would have freaked me out evenmore. Oh yeah, said well
what about that paycheck? Right?That's yeah exactly, And there was none
of that pressure. That's amazing.And then you stay there for two more
years and then you signed with Seattlein two thousand and five? Was there?
Did Tampa not renew you? Whatwas the transition like to Seattle?
Tampa didn't renew me? Yeah,I had. I was four years there.

(42:06):
I played out my entire contract withthem, and then I became a
free agent. Okay, how wasthat shopping around? It? It was
crazy because I thought, you know, I've had a pretty good four years
here. I started after John Lynchleft. I did some good things.
It was a special team's guru,and I just wasn't getting that call,
wasn't getting that call, wasn't gettingthat call, And it wasn't until June

(42:31):
when Seattle called. Yeah, soI went from the end of my fourth
year in Tampa, which we werebad that year. I don't think we
made the playoffs. So January,February March April. May you know,
without being on a team and reallynot a ton of interest. But HiT's
cutthroat, right man, it hitsa blood bath. Yeah, so'd you

(42:51):
keep working out, kept working out, acting as if you were going to
get on a team. That's right, stay in shape. Seattle, they
had some their GM was on TampaBay staff for a couple of years,
and so he knew me. Agood friend of mine, Joe jare Vicious,
one of my dearest friends. Ithought you're in business with now yea
every single day talk to Joe.He was in Seattle. They just brought
him in, Okay, So Ihad some connections up there, and sometimes

(43:15):
that's the key. Yeah, Imean, you can have all the talent
in the world, but if peoplearen't talking about you or know you from
someplace else, you kind of dropoff the map. Yeah, you do.
Exactly, that's right, that's whathappens. And your head coach at
that time was Pete Carroll. Mikehoh, yes, I forget what we're
talking, like what year it is, that's right, goodness, And we

(43:36):
went to the Super Bowl that year. We got beat by the Steelers with
calor right, Joan Bettis, Yeah, Joey Porter and those guys. Yeah.
So you go to another Super Bowlwhen you're with Seattle and then you
lose that one compared to the oneyou won. I tell people I would
rather finish thirty second in the leaguethan to get second place in the NFL.
It's the most deflating experience. Idon't know if it's like this anymore,

(44:00):
but when you lose that game,they escort you off of that field
so fast you can't even go shakethe other team's hand. It's like,
you lost, get off the field. We're celebrating with the winning team.
Wow. It was amazing the difference. Amazing the differences. And you go
through so much more training in amuch longer year and then therefore a much

(44:22):
shorter offseason. Yes, and youhave basically nothing to show for it.
Who cares if you went to theSuper Bowl and lost, big deal,
and you're back at it in amonth and a half. Yeah. That's
why statistically in the NFL, teamswho go to the Super Bowl and lose,
it's so hard to have a successfulseason the next year. There's only
been a few teams to do it. And do you think that affected you

(44:43):
then in two thousand and six,because then you injure your hamstring again?
Yeah, because see I was ona one year contract with Seattle when they
picked me up came back that nextyear. I wasn't at Seattle at the
beginning of the year, and thenthey brought me back and ended up reinjuring
my hamstring. Oh okay, soand then that is it. After I
reinjured it again that time, therewasn't a team in the league that was
going to take a chance on it. Did you kind of have that feeling

(45:06):
mentally though at that point, John, that it was probably time to be
done or did you want to keepplaying? And it was right at the
point, like I really didn't getcomfortable in the league as a player and
my role and to where I fitin and tell you know, probably halfway
through my second year, and soI had part of that year in year
three, four and five, orI could. I really it's a shame

(45:28):
that I say this, But really, when my mentality shifted to being more
of a selfish player, that's whenI became more comfortable. I don't care
about anybody but myself, and I'mgoing to take care of myself. And
it affected the way I talked tocoaches. And I'm not saying that's right,
right, It just because that's notreally you. No, it wasn't

(45:49):
me. Yeah, And that's whatwas so hard my first two years.
We're teammates, man, this iswhat we're supposed to be. This is
my coach. You respect your coach? Is how you talk to your coach?
How can you say that to him? This? You know, that
type of stuff to the point whereit ate me up so bad that it
changed me and I didn't like it. Right, But it was easy work,
Yeah, it was. It waseasier showing up to work when I

(46:12):
really took on that this is abusiness mentality. This isn't a game.
So you retire after two thousand andsix, yep, And then what I
know, you have your your huntingranch in Nebraska with Joe. I did.
Joe was a partner for a fewyears and I bought Joe out.
Oh okay, all right, sonow that's all yours, and so what
do you do with that? Haveyou done that the whole time since you
retired? Yeah, pretty much.I've done a lot of things, but

(46:36):
that's always kind of been the foundation. So I come from cattle ranchers five
generations, you know, my familystarted ranching in the early nineteen hundreds.
Put together a ranch that I've watchedfor generations. Struggle in the cattle industry.
You know, ranching and farming canbe asset rich, cash flow poor,
but it's a way of life.Those that watched Yellowstone, they understand

(46:57):
exactly. That's a lot of alot of accurate ears to that show.
But I was always looking for alternativeagriculture. What are some other ways to
generate revenue on a struggling cattle ranch. When I was in Tampa, football
is in the fall. When Iwas in me and my buddies would go
hunting in Colorado State. We couldgo up the mountains. It was easy,
it was quickly. We could goback to Nebraska on a Sunday,
you know, after a game,no big deal. In the fall,

(47:17):
I got to Tampa. It's like, man, this is taking up my
fall hunting season. How do Ihunt? Well? I started going to
these ranches I had hunting operations,and I'd take a couple buddies on the
team, and I'd take Sap andyou know, Nate webg all these guys
that had never hunted before, andI started taking them that we would.
You hunt in Florida gators and sothere's gators, there's there's white tailed deer.
There's a lot of feral hogs andstuff like that. And people think

(47:40):
of Florida as being hunting territory andI didn't either. And there's all kinds
of crazy stories about how I gotin hunting in Florida. And I'd never
been on a paid hunt as akid. I grew up hunting and fishing,
you know, just that's what youdid, and that's what you did
for entertainment. So oh, Igot to pay somebody to go on this
hunt. And that's when I reallystarted learning it as an industry learning.

(48:00):
There's a lot of guys that wantto know how to do this, and
I really started enjoying taking guys andteaching them how to do it. For
the first time, and I said, I wonder if there's a way I
can add this to the family ranch. And so I started building that business
early in my career. So inthe offseason, that's what I would do.
I would come home and I wouldbuild fence and put you know,

(48:20):
buildings and structures and start and build. This bis your nine year old experience.
That's right, exactly, That's exactlyright. And that was my release.
That was my therapy, right,you know, get back home in
the middle of nowhere, no peopleand put in the country digging holes.
Man. That's right. Yeah.So I had the business kind of started
and going, and that was probablypulling me a little bit as well.

(48:45):
That being my roots and that reallybe in my true passion. I don't
know, you know, if Ididn't have that, I would have affected
my career at all. If I'dhave played longer, maybe I'd have done
more you know, maintenance and thingslike that. I don't know, but
it was nice to have that goingyour plan be ready, I did.
Yeah. So many great guys Iknow struggle with being done with football well,

(49:06):
and a lot of it's because ofthat they have no idea what to
do next. That's right. Ifyou didn't finish your degree, what do
you do do you go back toschool at this point and the ones that
are successful put some plans into placewhile you were playing. Yep, so
that was super smart to do well. And I think it's a balance,
right, yes, is to beable to stay focused on football, not
be distracted with businesses that you're starting, but to have a plan be set

(49:29):
up because you're not going to playthe game forever. And I think that
the identity piece, like you said, I couldn't wait to no longer be
Oh John how the football player toyour Jalen's dad, Jack, Jake's dad,
oh, your Laura's husband, LikeI was ready for that stage.
And I don't know if it's becausemy dad died at such an early age,
Like I couldn't wait to be afather myself type of a thing,

(49:50):
you know, and just to getback to the country and start that business.
And so that's what you've done forall these years. So do you
take people? I mean, Iknow you're gone to Nebraska at yeah,
a lot you live in Colorado andobviously your kids are all over the place,
but then you're you're also running thatin Nebraska. You're busy, busy,
and I travel a lot. Imean I've got two hundred thousand miles
on a vehicle that's five years old, right, I mean I travel a

(50:12):
time. Plus I got a daughterin Kentucky and you know, kid up
at four Collins. That type ofstuff. But people like, why didn't
you go back to Nebraska. That'swhere your business was, That's where your
roots are, It's where we loveit. My wife, bless her heart,
she grew up in a small townNebraska. I took her to Florida,
and when I went to Seattle,she almost said, bye, I'm
not going. I love Florida.Yeah, but she loves the city life.

(50:32):
But I teach people that's like,well, because happy wife, happy
life. She didn't want to movethe country. She grew up in a
small town. The reason was Iwanted more opportunities for my kids. I
wanted to try to balance. Hey, can I give them that small town
lessons and way of life that Ihad without living there and live in an
area that has more We have youthfootball type or five years old, right,

(50:54):
mainly sports and better schools and thattype of stuff. But still trying
to teach so small town values bytaking them back there, right, and
so you know, whether it workedor not, that's what we chose to
do. They started their careers ata very very young age. But the
sacrifice was I drove, I drive, I would and I coached their little
kids football and started Pop Warner FortCollins and every week I drive back and

(51:17):
forth from Nebraska. I tell peopleI have a five hour commute to work
one way, and a lot ofthat I haven't fully staffed now, so
I don't have to go back thereas much. That's good, but you
know, I still travel quite abit absolutely. And your kids are So
you've got one at Kentucky. Yep, she's at Louisville. She's a professional
soccer player, and then Jack's upa c issue, and then your youngest

(51:37):
is at Cherry Creek. That's rightwhere you're also coaching. Yes, So
like the coaching aspect, I loveit. I love Dave Logan. He's
I have more respect for that manthan any high school coach I've ever been
around, right, I mean heloves the kids. Yes, period.
What's it take to be a greathigh school coach? You get love the
kids, that's it. I don'tcare X as a OS I don't care.
You love the kids and you wantwhat's best for them. You'll be

(51:59):
a great coach. Yeah, youknow, And he sounds simple, but
it's very difficult, oh man.For some there's a lot that goes into
that too, right, and especiallya guy like Dave that doesn't have to
do it. You've got a millionthings going on. Dave doesn't have coach
high school football, right, buthe does because he's passionate about that.
He cares about the future of thesekids, and he cares that they learn
things the right way, not justfootball, but life too. And so

(52:19):
it's been great for me because I'vebeen through the gamut with the sport of
football, youth football, high school, college, professional coaching, playing,
and all that stuff. The gamelets me down a little bit now and
then, and so it's a breathof fresh air when I'm around coaches like
Dave and the staff that he's puttogether over there. They're good dudes,
and it makes me feel good aboutthe future of football. So what's in
the future for you guys? Imean, you got kids almost you know,

(52:40):
you got the one in high schoolstill, but then they'll be out
of the house. Do you eversee yourself going back to Nebraska and doing
that. Yeah, we'll be emptynest in a year, and we're scared
to death. We've been there fora couple of years, and it's weird.
It's oh man, it's like we'relike the puppy waiting for the owner
get home. When we hear Jakeare younger coming up the driveway, he's
home, you know, and weget so excited and he just it's gonna

(53:04):
be the hardest one for sure,right out of the three, just because
that's it, right, And Ithink we'll do what we've always done,
is travel to go see him.They're still playing sports. Jalen has her
soccer career and hopefully that continues.And I drive. I'm old school I
drive. I don't like crowds andpeople still, so I just get my
truck and cruise. Lower flies,you know, she flies. I drive,

(53:27):
yea, yeah, I can talkon my mobile office, right,
So I pull over when I wantto pull over. I don't tell me
to sit down and stand up andyou know, getting yeah exactly. I'm
probably a pain like that, butthat's just how I am. So but
we travel over her to see herplay. She's had a really successful career.
Right. She was two time nationalchampion in Florida State and soccer.
She won the Mack Herman twice,which is equivalent to the Heisman Trophy.

(53:52):
But she's in her second year inthe league now. She just missed the
World Cup team. She's been onthe national team off and on since she
was seventeen years old, and she'sjust right there on the cusp. But
she's working hard, she's doing everythingshe needs to do, and she's happy.
She loves her team. Where she'sat it so great. It's cool.
Jack up at the issue. Wego see him, Jake, he's
a wrestler. He loves football,but he's a knucklehead wrestler, and so

(54:14):
he's gonna go. Yeah, sohe's gonna go somewhere and wrestle. So
we'll see where that goes. Butso hopefully, you know, maybe we'll
have three kids doing some stuff.If not, we're still going to be
knocking on their door, pester andnormally, you know, wanting to be
a part of their life. Right, But there will be more time in
Nebraska for sure with the business.All right, last question, John,
and you've alluded to this throughout ourpodcast and you say that you talk to
some of the high school kids,but when you talk to people when they

(54:36):
have those down moments, those momentsof mental anguish of I want to quit,
or something's just happened where I justdon't know where my next step is.
What do you tell people what's helpedyou the most as you move forward
in life when you had those moments. Yeah, So the thing I talked
about with the kids, he's inmy buddies too that are struggling and I
don't have all the answers. Iknow, you know, a big thing

(54:57):
in my life and my wife andour kids through everything that we've been through.
Right, that sports and life canthrow at you, you know,
as our faith, and that's ourcomfort, and that's our piece. I
ask kids about that. I don'tforce it or be aggressive with that.
I just try to be an exampleof how I live my life and faith
and maybe they want a piece ofthat, and so maybe they'll ask more
about that and then I can helpthem from there. But it's understanding that

(55:21):
again, it's your struggles to developyour strengths and it's a smooth sea.
You never made a skilled sailor typeof a thing. I say listen,
man, embrace your struggles. Ilook back at all the tough times in
my life. If I'd have hada magic wand and I could have teleported
out of that situation, I'd havedone it in a second. And today
I wouldn't trade those rough times foranything, right, because that's what made

(55:44):
me who I am today. Andthat's hard for somebody to understand when they're
going through it. It really is. And you've got to have an out
and that there's a lot of thingswith that, right, your faith and
your family and having mentors that cantalk you through and support you, love
on you, right, guys likeDave Low and that type of stuff.
You got to have those people inyour corner. So I just love on
them, try to be an example, try to help them with their faith,

(56:07):
and try to tell them this isgoing to build you, This is
going to grow you, this isgonna make you better. You know,
it's hard raising kids. You wantto catch them before they fall. You
know, you don't touch the stove. Sometimes you gotta let him touch a
stove. Man, You do,you do, and as hard as a
parent, it's so hard. Doyou want to put him in a bubble?
You want to put him in asituation on a team to where it's
gonna be a little bit easier.You know, you can't do that,

(56:27):
man, You can't do that laterin life. If it is, you
got to throw them right the teethof that monster. Love on them,
give him support, but make themgo through those times. And it's hard
to put kids in uncomfortable situations rightas a parent these days. But long
answer, I just love on themand try to support them and help them
and let them know that it's goingto grow them. It's great answer,
John, This was phenomenal. Thankyou for the time. This was so
fun. This has been a truetreat to have you in on the podcast.

(56:50):
So thank you. Well. You'resuch a blessing to the city than
that fella ram right in football.And we love you, Susie. You're
awesome, And thank you for allthe sport you give him my family over
the years. And thanks for havingme on the show. You're the best.
Thank you, John. If youwant to learn more about John's hunting
ranch in Nebraska, check out theshow notes for a link, or visit
Dismal River at Dismal River dot com. New episodes of Cut Traded, Fired,

(57:13):
retired come out every Tuesday. Pleasefollow, subscribe, download, and
like this podcast wherever you listen topodcasts, and you can keep up on
new releases by following on Twitter andInstagram at CTFR podcast and also on the
website CTFR podcast dot com. I'myour host, Susiewargin. Thanks for checking
out episode number fifty. Until nexttime, please be careful, be safe,

(57:35):
and be kind. Take care