January 22, 2025 • 54 mins
In 2025, Lisa Van Goor will finally be inducted into the Colorado Sports Hall of Fame. A long overdue honor for the first player in the history of the University of Colorado (man or woman) to score 2000 points and snag 1000 rebounds in a career. She also averaged a double-double for her career as a Buff, all of this despite missing several games due to injuries her junior and senior seasons.
Lisa was born in South Dakota and after being named a Parade All American as a senior, she had over four dozen schools recruiting her. She thrived her first two years under head coach Sox Walseth, however when Ceal Barry came in, the injury bug hit and life got tougher physically and mentally. After graduation, (the WNBA didn’t exist yet), Lisa went overseas to play professionally for 7 years and became a 5-time All Star.
After retirement, Lisa returned to Boulder unsure of what to do with her life. She wanted to be back in athletics and after getting turned down for a few opportunities, she got a job with a rental car company. Eventually she did get back into the CU Athletic Department helping to plan events. These days she’s out of the department, but still very involved with former student athletes, as the Executive Director of the non-profit Buffs 4 Life.
Listen to Lisa’s story and conversation with @susiewargin on the Cut Traded Fired Retired Podcast. Links to listen on your favorite podcast platforms in the @ctfrpodcast bio!
Lisa was born in South Dakota and after being named a Parade All American as a senior, she had over four dozen schools recruiting her. She thrived her first two years under head coach Sox Walseth, however when Ceal Barry came in, the injury bug hit and life got tougher physically and mentally. After graduation, (the WNBA didn’t exist yet), Lisa went overseas to play professionally for 7 years and became a 5-time All Star.
After retirement, Lisa returned to Boulder unsure of what to do with her life. She wanted to be back in athletics and after getting turned down for a few opportunities, she got a job with a rental car company. Eventually she did get back into the CU Athletic Department helping to plan events. These days she’s out of the department, but still very involved with former student athletes, as the Executive Director of the non-profit Buffs 4 Life.
Listen to Lisa’s story and conversation with @susiewargin on the Cut Traded Fired Retired Podcast. Links to listen on your favorite podcast platforms in the @ctfrpodcast bio!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You know, we never lost a home game, and so
that very first game that I could not play at home.
We had started the season strong, you know, seals first.
I mean, we kicked Arizona State, who is top ranked,
We kicked BYU.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
We were off to a great start.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
But that very first home game, sat on the bench
and had to watch them lose that very first home game,
and I felt so alone and so powerless as too,
because I knew that I had something to do with that.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
It was my fault.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Welcome to the Cut, Traded, Fired, Retired podcast, which features
conversations with professional athletes and coaches who have gone through
what nearly every athlete or coach goes through being cut, traded, fired,
and or they're retired. These sit downs have brought about
some great stories and advice. I'm your host, Susie Wargen.
We are long overdue to hear from another amazing female athlete.
(00:58):
This episode's guest is heading into the Colorado Sports Hall
of Fame in twenty twenty five, an honor that is
long overdue for Lisa Van Gore. Lisa hales from South
Dakota and had a phenomenal basketball career with the CU Buffs.
She left the program as the first man or woman
to score over two thousand points and over one thousand rebounds.
This despite being sidelined with an injury for a number
(01:21):
of games her junior and senior seasons. The WNBA wasn't
around when Lisa graduated from Boulders, so she went overseas
and played seven years of professional basketball, where she was
a five time All Star. After retirement, Lisa went back
to Boulder, but wasn't quite sure what she wanted to do.
She started by getting a job at a rental car company.
Eventually she was back in the athletic department helping the
(01:44):
plan events. These days, she's the executive director of the
nonprofit Buffs for Life. She bleeds black and gold and
is serving a passion for helping former CU student athletes,
ladies and gentlemen. Lisa Van Gore Cut Traded Fired Retired
podcast with Susie Wargin. Hello, Lisa van Gore, how are you?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
I'm doing great? Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Absolutely, I do not have enough women representation on the podcast,
so I'm thrilled to have you in here. Seal has
been on, Tanya Hove has been on, so here you
are in great company with those rights.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Honored to be in that company, There's no doubt about it.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah, you are a legendary basketball player with CEU. You're
going to go into the Colorado Sports Hall of Fame
in twenty twenty five, which is way way overdue. You're
already in a lot of other hall of fames, so
we should have had you in a long time ago.
So I'm thrilled about that and thrilled to have people
learn more about you that don't know about you. I
think you are well established. People familiar with see you
(02:45):
know about you, but many others need to as well.
So let's get into it. You're born in You're in
South Dakota. Yankedon South Dakota's where you grew up.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yes, a small town twelve thousand people.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Oh wow, grew up on the Missouri River. It's a
very small town. Not a whole lot for you know,
anybody to do. I didn't play sports until I was
entering my freshman year in high school. Because you know,
the timing of the whole thing. South Dakota enacted Title
nine in nineteen seventy five. They added a girls state
(03:18):
basketball tournament then, and so in seventy six, is when
I entered into my freshman year, and ironically, there were
rumors all summer long about this fantastic basketball player that
was moving to Yankton, South Dakota from Manhattan, New York.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Oh geez kay.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Her dad was.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
A reform minister and literally moved around the corner and
between Diane Heemstra and her dad, they kind of, you know,
got me shooting baskets and they're like, you need to
come to basketball camp, you need to go out for
girls basketball. Back then, girls basketball was in the fall,
(03:58):
just because you know, we didn't had the gym space
for the girls can go at the same time. So interesting,
and you know, well after I think I was in college,
that's when they changed the season to a winter season,
kind of like IA State, you know basketball. You know,
they played three on three all through my high school career.
(04:19):
And then when the scholarships, you know, the Division one
scholarships came out and they were at a disadvantage by
playing three on three, there was a lawsuit. So that's
kind of the same reason. Because Division one coach did
not know if they weren't familiar with South Dakota girls basketball,
they didn't know we played in the fall and wow, Yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
You didn't play like basketball at all growing up. Didn't
even occur to you.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
You know, I shot baskets.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
You were I'm assuming you were probably tall then you're
six to three when you were in college.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I think when I was entering, I was a little
over six foot. And you know, it's so funny. When
I went out for my first sports physcal, the doctor's like,
to my mom, you might want to think about giving
your daughter anti growth hormone because she's going to be
a giant or you know, it's just going to be
(05:13):
so hard for her growing up. And you know that's
kind of how backwards medicine.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Why, no, it was back then. My mom's like, absolutely not.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Oh thank goodness, you pick up a basketball thanks to
your neighbor. Yes, the girl that moved in from New
York and she started. She was a fantastic basketball player.
She started our freshman year.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
We won.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Out of the four years that we were in school together,
we won three state tournaments.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
And she ended up being recruited and went.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
To Oregon and I signed with Colorado and we played
each other in the first round of the AIAW Tournament
our freshman year and She's like, hey, not playing here,
not happy. And I told sacks wal Seth, I said,
we need to get this girl on our team. And
so she transferred. And the transfer rules in the AIAW
(06:07):
were very different back then, so you could come and
play right away, but you lose your scholarship. Oh so
her parents paid for her out of state tuition our
sophomore year. So that's you got to.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Play together in college. That's cool. Yeah, that's very cool.
Now I read that you had four dozen colleges that
offered you scholarships out of high school. Is that about right?
Or is day planned embellishing there?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
He's not embellishing.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Actually, I went through a recruiting process kind of twice
or three times, so to speak, because very few people,
especially coaches, you know, nationwide, knew that South Dakota played
in the fall. So by the time people stopped and
took notice of me and my ability, our season was
already over. My senior year was already over.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Oh my god, kids, October done.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, you know, we we ended the season. So I
got named to a Parade All American team. Same one
met Tanya Haveve. That's how I met Tanya Haveve. Tanya
and I go way back to when we were eighteen
years old and we.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Did you guys graduate the same year? Were you both
sens then? Oh? My goodness.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Well yeah, so that's how I met Tanya have and
we have a long, you know history together. Women's basketball
really is a small small circle, especially women of my age.
You know, we played on the same national teams. We played,
you know, overseas against each other.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
There was no WNBA until nineteen ninety six, so you guys,
I was way.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Before that, right.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
So that's when all these coaches on like the East
Coast and you know started noticing me.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Okay because you played on the on the up grade team.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Great, and I had already signed with Colorado. But a
month after I signed, Reney Portland left and went to
Penn State.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yeah, that was the co at the time.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
She's like Title nine, they have no money and you
need to get out of there. I can't recruit you
to Penn State, but just go somewhere else.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
So she was trying to talk you out of going
to see you.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Well, she had already signed me.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
She wasn't, you know, ethically, she couldn't tell me to
come to Penn State and there's no way I would
have gone to Penn State. Okay, but all the schools
that had been recruiting me, all in the Big Eight,
all the schools out in the West Coast, they started
recruiting me again.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Oregon wanted me.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
But the problem was the aia W Ruhles said, you
had to pay for your transportation to all these schools
to visit, and once you're on campus then they can
pick up the tab.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
You didn't get any travel money at all.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
No, this is the AIAW.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
So being in South Dakota, we visited all the Big
Eight schools. But then USLA really wanted me. I mean
USLA Billy Moore was the coach, but I couldn't my
parents couldn't afford to fly me out there. So I
did fly out to Colorado and fell in love with Colorado.
(09:07):
But you know, when Reeny left and I was out
of my letter of intent, I ended up being re recruited.
And Socks wal Seth, who was a legendary men's coach
for twenty years, was still technically on staff and he
drove up to South Dakota and he grew up in Pier,
(09:28):
South Dakota. So the South Dakota connection was definitely there.
He grew up with one of my teammate's father, and
he talked me in disdain.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
My mom was a little against it because my mom's like, well,
what do you think about academics and Socks? You know,
typical socks, right, academics, she's there to play basketball.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
She's not there, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
And it was my mom did not really talk to
Socks until my junior year.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
She didn't know. Oh, my goodness, because you know it's yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
But my dad when he would come to watch me play,
he and Socks would go to the Perkins across the
street from the Corpse Events Center. Oh and just have
hours and hours of coffee time every time. He and
my dad were two peas in a pod.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Oh that's cool.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Yeah, so wow. It meant a lot to have that
soft Dakota connection. And you know, Socks was just a
really cool, you know family.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
We were.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
We played against his sons and his friends, scrimmaged, you
know against them. I mean, we were just like one big,
happy family.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
And Socks was very important for Seal too, who then
came in after he retired, and you had her for
the last two years, right of your career. Yes, is
that right? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
So Seal came in in eighty three, and uh, you know,
Socks didn't know how to coach women and write.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Women's basketball was still evolving.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I think with the guys, you know, there wasn't so
much emphasis on fundamentals.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Right, but we were still involved. I mean, think about it.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I started in seventy six, I came to Colorado in
eighty I was still I mean, thank god for my
high school coach who really pounded fundamentals and pounded the
fact that if I put in the time and the
effort that I could get a college scholarship. My mom
wasn't totally on board because I grew up in a
(11:31):
family of seven kids. I was the second youngest, and
it was expected that all the kids, if they wanted
to go to college, would have to start, you know, working.
And it was around my sophomore year in high school.
My coach is like, you know, you need to really
let her practice and play and not worry about chores
(11:52):
and stuff like that because she can earn her way
through college.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
And my mom kind of was resistant to it. And
I hope she doesn't listen to this because she really
denies that she wasn't supportive, but she was. She'd never
had a child that was an athlete.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Well, and honestly, back then, Lisa, I mean, girls didn't
get money to go to college for athletics, so that
would be her mindset, like, how would you do that? Well,
and I I.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Had four older brothers. My one that's two years older,
played high school basketball. By the way, he's a big
time sportscaster back in South Dakota. He worked for the
University of South Dakota and South Dakota State and you know,
the local high school.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
But he he.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Sat the bench, So my mom wasn't used to that, right.
The four older brothers, they all were brilliant and smart.
Doctor a lawyer. Yes, So my oldest brother is six six,
he became a lawyer. My next brother was six five,
he became a doctor. Brilliant guys. And you know, it's
(12:57):
really funny because they're more ells of my accomplishments and
I'm of theirs. I'm like, guys, come on, I'm the
dumb jock in the family and you guys are so
you know, successful and everything like that.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
So but they wanted to do what you did. I
bet they did ye.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
I think, you know, more so because my dad kind
of paid attention. You know, my dad grew up he
was eighteen when the war, was seventeen when the war
broke out. He lied about his age and enlisted when
he was seventeen and got kicked out of officer school
and then came back. But anyway, I think it was
(13:36):
always his dream to play basketball. So I was kind
of living vicurious, you know, he was living vicious through me.
And I think my brothers were kind of jealous of that,
because you know, he didn't really pay attention, you know,
to their academic I mean, my brothers got great grades
and who's who in college, you know, all that kind
(13:56):
of stuff, and so it was kind of cool that
I had that from my parents.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Yeah, absolutely, later on.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
I mean it wasn't until I got to junior or
senior in high school that my mom's like.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Oh, maybe you are okay at this. That's really interesting.
All right. So when you do go to see you
your freshman year, you just come out, I mean crazy.
You average a double double, eighteen and a half points
per game, ten point six rebounds per game. Did the
college game come kind of easy for you or what
(14:27):
was that like, especially only having played four years of
high school ball.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
You know, Number one, Socks didn't ever let me be
a freshman. I mean he saw talent, he saw potential.
I had great high school coaching and plus there was
no competition for me in Yankedon South Dakota other than
playing against guys. So I played nuntime ball with you know,
late twenties, early thirty guys all the time. And I
(14:54):
think that's what made Diane and I, you know, Division
one players. You know, they didn't have AAU basketball. We
didn't have team camps. You know, we had the skills
camp that my high school coach was famous for. But
that's about it. And that's all we did. We played
against guys. We didn't have any other competition.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
That's what I think.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
I feel like made me a player that was ready
for the next level.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Oh, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
And so it didn't seem like any different for me
as freshmen. And you know, fortunately it was that freshman
year that got me noticed by the people down in
Colorado Springs. I was so fortunate too, And looking back,
I had no business being on that Team USA, Team USA,
(15:45):
Yeah it was Aba USA back then. Socks is really
good friend was the head of it. I got the
opportunity to play with Dan Donovan, Denise Curry, all.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
These as like an eighteen year old nineteen nineteen year
old smokes.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Kim Ulk was our point guard.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Oh my gosh wow. And she is fiery then as
she is now.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
She coaches like she played. There's no there's no doubt.
I so admire her and what she's been able to accomplish.
But to have that opportunity to play against all Americans
like that on a day to day I didn't know,
because you know, the transition into college was so easy
(16:27):
for me, but this took it to a whole different level.
I'm sure as far as you know, being you know,
ready and mentally too, I wasn't mature enough to handle
that responsibility because I never had I mean, I had it.
I wouldn't say easy, but I did well, you.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Did, yeah, because the talent wasn't there.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Yeah, you know, I definitely think, you know, when I
came to Colorado, I was the perfect thing that that
team was looking for. They didn't have a big girl
inside and I had a lot of veteran players around me,
so I never, you know, felt like I was a freshman.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I mean, I had that support.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
If I'd get into a ruckus on the court, my
point guard would come in between me and the girl,
and like you got a problem with my center, you know,
and things like that.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
I you know, I love it.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I grew up, you know, being six ' three in
high school or even you know, five ten in junior.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
High or whatever I was. I was so so shy.
I still am.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
I'm so much of an introvert. Really yeah, people don't
know it. I have two sides of me. When I
step on the basketball court, I was a different person.
But my teammates used to tease me all the time
because I was a very quiet but basketball brought me out.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Get me a little jeckle and hide, right, I did
I do? Your alter ego is on the yah.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
You know, I'd sharpen my elbows and I was ready
to go. And you know that was the cool part.
You know, my teammates when I was a freshman, we
were so close, so close it was, and I still
have memories. I still keep in touch with a lot
of them. We did everything together, we hung out together,
(18:19):
and these were all upper classmen. They took me under
their wing, and you know supported me. So that's what
I think made that transition so easy.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
That's cool. I love that. And then you continue to
do really well your freshman and sophomore year. You guys
have twenty eight win seasons your junior year. Something happened
with day that year.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Right, we went into the NC douaa.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Okay, that's what it was. There was a change. Yeah,
so that changed the too.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Well, we were playing against my freshman sophomore year. We
were playing in what they called the Inner Mountain Conference.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Okay, you know it.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Had all the Utah schools BYU, Idaho State, Colorado State, Wyoming.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Well, going to do ram? Did I just hear rams? Jane?
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I was going to say, we never lost to c
SU when I was a college player. So it's funny
because I give Becky Hammond you know, a hard time
about that, right, because she's a South Dakota girl too.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
You guys have that in common.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, we have.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
My assistant coach in high school was her head coach
out in Rapped City.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
So kidding, yeah, we have that connection.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
That's cool.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Yeah, or the same number.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Yeah, she's oh yeah, both twenty five.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
I know.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
She's like way anything that I've ever, you know, dreamt
of accomplishing. But I just so admire her, and you
know what she's done for women's.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Basketball, yes, in general.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
So then your junior year you go into the n
C Double A, so things change a little bit. Your
senior year is that when Seal comes in, Yes, okay,
and then you play four games and have a stress fracture, yes,
on your foot.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
And I was so afraid.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
I remember we were going and playing down in New
Mexico and then on to Northern Arizona and I couldn't walk.
I'm like, how am I going to tell? So I
told the trainer, I said, don't tell Seal. I don't
know what's going on. And then we had practice. She's like,
what is wrong? So they did all the X rays.
(20:23):
Obviously it was too early.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Because it was a stress fracture.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Was a stress fracture, Yeah, But I didn't know what
was going on, and so it was it was a
hard time.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
I think it was hard time for Seal too. You know.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
You got to remember Seal when she came to Colorado
was twenty seven to twenty eight.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
She was so young.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I was probably twenty two, twenty one, twenty two.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Yeah, she was not very much older than most of.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
You, right, And I think Seal tried so so hard
to put that distance between us. There were a lot
of rules, and I think she was just trying to
earn the respect in that distance.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
That we could not buy friend.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
I'm not your friend and we That was so different
between you know, Socks and our assistant coach. We're friends,
we're buddies especially. Yeah, so it was a very different dynamic.
I think she came in with the mission from you know,
Eddie Crowder, the directive from Eddie Crowder. You know, we
(21:28):
need to be tougher on these girls. We need more fundamentals,
We need more I would say, discipline.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah, but you know, women's.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Basketball was evolving. I think everybody was learning. I mean
for Seale to get a job at twenty seven years old,
so I think with being in that position at such
a young age comes the responsibility of her, the maturity
to handle certain situations.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
To come in.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
And lose your star center four games into the season,
and it was hard.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, those were hard years.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I think mentally, not only mentally, but physically for me,
it cost me an opportunity to make the Olympic team
because I didn't play that whole year. Nobody saw me play.
I got to the last cut before you know, I
met with the current national team pan Am team.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
So it was hard. Yeah, it was hard mentally.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I talked to a lot of athletes on this podcast
about being injured and being in the training room and
even though you're still around your team you see them,
it's not the same and it's a really lonely dark
place and can really and it lasted for you for
quite a while because then you got a medical red shirt,
right so you're able to come back the next year.
(22:48):
Do you play as much the next.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Year or I do come back because of the stress fracture,
I ended up having a foot injury, so I sat
out my fifth year half the season and that was hard.
I think the hardest part was that very first game
because my first three years at CU, we never lost a.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Home game, never lost a home game.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
So the three year Socks was a coach, we never
lost a home game. And we played Tennessee, we played
Tanya Jave had the great big come back homecoming game
and we beat them by nineteen points.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
They were in the top five.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Oh my god, that was a pat summit team that
was a pat summit team.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
We were ranked probably in the top fifteen. You know,
we never lost a home game, and so that very
first game that I could not play at home. We
had started the season strong, you know, Seals first. I mean,
we kicked Arizona State, who was top ranked, We kicked BYU.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
We were off to a great start. But that very first.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Home game, sat on the bench and had to watch
them lose that very first home game, and I felt
so alone and so so powerless as too, because I
knew that I had something to do with that. It
was my fault that I was sitting there. You know,
obviously you can't help injuries, especially that type of injury.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
But it was hard.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
You were powerless, and I was cororless.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
And you know, there's nothing because I was always the one,
you know that if things got tight, that I was
the go to person, and so it was really kind
of hard those two years at you know, my last
two years at CU were kind of dark and difficult.
You know, Socks hadn't recruited to the level to maintain
(24:38):
how good we were in my early years, and that's
probably the reason why he retired and Seal was brought in,
and let me tell you, Seal did a heck.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Of a job.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
I mean literally the year after I left, you know,
she had Bridget Turner and Tracy Tripp on our team,
and so it just was a bad start for her
and it was a bad ending for so. I loved
the University of Colorado. Fortunately I had an opportunity to
go over seas, but.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Not on the best note, even though you were so accomplished.
Though you were the first male or female to have
over two thousand points and a thousand rebounds.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
But it was a different game, you know, but you did.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
That with three years and then just three and a
half years. Yeah, I mean a few games, you know,
between two other years. That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
But I felt, I felt, you know, in my head
that I hadn't accomplished anything because we ended on such
a bad note. And then I went overseas and had
a fantastic.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Career seven years.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Right.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Yeah, I think to the regular person that would look
at your stats and go, wow, what an accomplishment. But
then to have you say it was kind of a
sad ending, which is sad, you know.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
You know the biggest part about it is that we
didn't have the support outside the team. You know, somebody couldn't.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Talk to anybody about it.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
We can talk deal, you know, Coach Berry. I still
call her Coach Berry to this day. Coach Berry had
put that distance, so it's really hard to talk to
her about those things. And I had Beth Burns, who's
a legendary coach herself, as my support. She you know,
worked me out for the Olympic trials, so I mean
(26:21):
did all this stuff and try to you know, support me,
but she also had to maintain that distance so not
to have somebody to talk to about how hard it
was to get through practice and you know school wasn't
going you know, all that kind of stuff to you know,
kind of juggle that. I'm so jealous of what these
kids have now. You know, they have the nutritionists, they
(26:44):
have the academic support and the mental support and the
mental support and the physically you know, the physical well
being the nutritionists is. I was blown away when I
heard the nutritionists talk at buff Bell's about what they
do for each of the players and like they look
at everything that goes into that athlete's body.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
And training table is serious.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
It is.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
We didn't have that, so, I mean we used to
eat at Round the Corner back in the day for
pregame meals because that was one of Socks's buddies, or Goldeni's,
which was a renowned you know spaghetti you know Italian
place down the hill, and so, you know, we didn't
look at things like that.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
And maybe your injury may not have happened because now
there's so much more tuned into you know, load management
and how much you're working out and what you're doing,
and stress fractures are a great example of being overworked.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I look back at that stress fracture and it should
never have happened. We were running on the track, we
were running on the pavement, and basketball shoes like high tops,
Converse con not not the Chucky not the Chucky Teas.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Okay, I was like, oh no, support the.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Converse All Stars, which were leather shoes, but still they
were the worst basketball shoe ever made.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
We used to wear those for the USA team too.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
It's like, oh, wosh, it's amazing you didn't have more injuries.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
It is.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
But you know, I look too at if we knew
back then what we know now, my career would have
been so much different, not even you know, just college
but playing professionally.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
You know, they didn't know you go over to Europe.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
They were so far behind. All they knew about training
the basketball players how they trained a soccer player. And
you know, when you think about the difference between those
two things, that's huge. No wonder I have no ankles left,
or knees or you know anything like that bad back
(28:56):
and so it's I'm so happy be to see how
far women's sports have come, yes, and how much more
they are supported, especially in the mental health space.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Right, And let's get into that in a moment. I
want to talk about your You had seven years pro
between Spain where you were a five time All Star
and Italy and France. Aside from them treating you like
a soccer player for training was like just being overseas
and how much I'm always so curious what that did
(29:29):
for you as a person, because what an experience to
be able to have that.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Well, it definitely brought me out of my shell being
a college athlete, even more so now than back then.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
We lived in.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
A very close bubble. Everything is kind of well back then,
not all taking care of a bit. You know, we
live in a very sheltered environment and going over there,
you're pretty much on your own. Fortunately, I've had great coaches,
I've had great American teammates. It helps get through. But
(30:03):
I would not trade that experience for anything in the world. Yeah,
because I had to grow up, I had to be assertive,
I had to learn a new language, and their life
is just so different and you would never It's hard
for I think girls these days to go over there
and play because they're so you know, they have the
(30:26):
WNBA and we didn't have email. To pick up the
phone the first minute was like twenty bucks.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
It was so.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Expensive to you know, call home, so I rarely called home.
A letter took ten days to two weeks to get home.
I mean, yeah, you know it was hard.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
It was really Did you try and keep a long
distance relationship going well?
Speaker 1 (30:52):
He actually was a basketball player. He played in wake Forest.
We met when the two national teams in ninety Needy one,
we played in the World University Game. He was on
the men's team. He went back to Wake Forest and
you know, I went back to Colorado and we just
kind of went about our ways. And it was my
third year over in Spain that you know, one of
(31:14):
the guys on the team that I had met from
my previous years. He's like, I need you to meet
my American teammate. You'll really really like him. And it
ended up being him. So we dated for three years,
but it just got to be hard. I was hard
of the long distance relationship, and I really you know,
(31:37):
I wasn't done playing basketball. That was the hardest part,
is the long distance because he quit playing basketball. He
was trying to get on his feet, you know, back home,
and I didn't know what I wanted to do with
my life after basketball. So yeah, it was like I said,
I wouldn't trade that experience. They they have a whole
different lifestyle. To this day, I still make, you know,
(31:59):
dishes like yeah or Tomasu from you know, Italy or
you know, I.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Just love the culture.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Back then, you know, we were so busy hanging out,
you know, as Americans that we didn't even appreciate where
we were. Like in Barcelona, my Madrid. I would go
visit my teammate Kim Hampton, who played for Arizona State.
We were on a national team together, you know all this,
and we would just hang out together. We would drive
by the big famous cathedral and like, yeah, that's kind
(32:31):
of cool, but never appreciated how cool that whole thing is.
It wasn't until thirty years later when I went back,
I'm like.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Wow, I should probably take a picture by this.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
But what a great opportunity for us, I think, just
to grow as a person and to mature and you know,
have responsibility for yourself.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
And you were.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Kind of alone over there, but you know, the Spanish
were very good at kind of embracing us and taking
us into their homes and you know, feeding us meals
on Sunday and so.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
You have a host family when you were there, did
you live on your own?
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Lived on our own? Okay, but my teammates families. You know,
it was a very different structure. It was club sports,
but a lot of the girls on my team were
working or you know, they didn't get paid. You know,
the Americans were the ones that were getting paid. Not
all the players got paid. You know, there were a
couple teams that I played for that everybody got paid,
(33:31):
but we were gain paid the most money.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Oh, interesting, got paid more than the locals did.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Yeah, it was club sports. They didn't have university teams like.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
We do here. Okay, it was a very different experience.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
I bet when did you know it was time to
retire or were you retired by the game.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
So my last year was in France and x And Provence,
beautiful country. It just was difficult and I had heard
these rumors. I had the chance my first year to
go to France, but they're like, you know, the French
really hate Americans, they don't like Americans. And when I
got there, you know, each team was allowed to foreigners,
(34:14):
and there was only one other American out of ten
teams in the first division that were American.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
WHOA.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
So it wasn't the French people in x And Province.
They were so wonderful and so embracing and so it
was beautiful. Part of the It was my teammates, my
French teammates that and my coach that did not like Americans. Yeah,
it was that was so Plus I had a lot
(34:43):
of back issues then and I was just tired of
being away from you know, to put up with that
and to be away from home and the injury. It
was time. It was time, it wasn't you know, Like
at CU I wanted to finish on a high note.
And unfortunate, as an athlete, you don't always get that.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
I mean you want that, you know.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Especially playing professionally. That's my only regret is ending on
a high note, like going to the European Cup, you know,
not having to end it on because of an injury.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Or that's how funny end yep. Very few get to
go out on top. Very few get the Peyton manning.
You win a Super Bowl and you retire, John Oway
win a Super Bowl, retire exactly. There's a handful.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
And you know, I.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Retired in ninety one. I was thirty one maybe years old,
and I you know, I'm like, okay, what do I
do now?
Speaker 3 (35:41):
And what did you do? How'd you decide?
Speaker 2 (35:43):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
I was like, here I was with a resume that
had nothing but playing professional basketball in Europe, not in
the United States. I was five years away from being
able to play in the But I had to like
support myself. So I worked with CU. Back then, they
(36:06):
didn't have the kind of post eligibility support for their athletes,
career development leadership type of things that they have now.
And so I took whatever job I could get, and
that ended up being with Enterprise rent a car because
you know, all these jobs that I interviewed for They're like, well,
you have no experience enterprise rent a car. And to
(36:29):
this day they recognize student athletes as bringing a skill
set that you know, now it's like commonplace. You know,
companies recruit student athletes just because of the dedication, the teamwork,
the discipline, the hard work, you know, all that kind
(36:50):
of stuff that nobody really knew back then about athletes.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
They saw all the stuff that wasn't on the resume. Yes,
that's really cool.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
It was a great way.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
It taught me so much about you know, customer service,
about marketing, about all the little different things management. I
became a manager, and was this in Bolder. I started
in Boulder, Okay, and so literally three blocks away from
where I was living. And it wasn't what I would
have picked. It was either, you know, go back to school.
(37:24):
I graduated from CU with a biology major. I'm like, okay,
what do I do with that? Do I go you know,
I would have had to go back to school. Do
I want to become a teacher? Do I want to coach?
Do I want to I knew I wanted to go.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Back in athletics.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
That's what I really wanted, and I tried and tried
try to get a job with SEAL, to go to
grad school, you know, try to do all these you know,
different things to get myself. It took me a long time.
I knew Bolder was my home. I didn't want to
go anywherewhere else. I didn't want to coach because that
(38:00):
became the vagabond existence would become the vagabond existence that
I had overseas. I wanted to plant roots, hopefully meet
somebody and just settle down. And that's what I decided
to do. And enterprise kept me in Colorado. I tried
(38:20):
many times to get anything with athletic apartment, anything, the
alumni c club director, you know. I lost out to
Darien Hagen for that job. I know, but fortunately John Meadows,
who was a great AAU girls basketball coach in Boulder,
(38:40):
I was very close to the family. John was working
in the athletic department and he knew how much I
wanted to come back for SeeU. So the only job
that he's like, hey, my event coordinator, just quit. Do
you want to do it? And totally threw me into
planning these major of them events and banquets and the
(39:03):
Hall of Fame for CU. I was disinducted the year
before and.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
They have been to the banquet does an inductee.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
I know it's a funny story, you know, because I
do have that experience. When Tom Lawrence called me to
tell me, I thought, are you going to offer me
a job? Because that's what my background is, That's what
I do, I mean, and so it was funny. He's like,
we're inducting you finally into the Hall of Fame, and
I said, oh, I thought it was to offer me
(39:30):
a job.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
Do you want me to plan it as well?
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Exactly?
Speaker 3 (39:35):
So that is funny. So you do that for quite
a while right as an event, and then you get
very involved with Buffs for Life, which you are the
executive director of now, which is a huge part of
your life, and you affect so many people with that.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Yes, in the athletic department, we went through a very
difficult time in two thousand and four. Gary Barnett was
the football coach. He ended up getting fired, My boss
gets fired. They just kind of cleaned house, and operating
in an athletic department wasn't the same. We didn't have
the autonomy. The university wouldn't give us the autonomy to
(40:13):
do things so it just became very, very difficult. And
one of the reasons I think I was successful in
that athletic department is because I had the passion. I
was a Buff and I wanted to make sure that
our athletic department was. It was just really a difficult time.
So I had left the athletic department without a job,
(40:34):
without anything to do. And you know, the year before
I left, Dave Thistle, who played football at CU, it's like, hey,
we need somebody. Like all the original board members of
Buffs for Life, they wanted a way to raise money
for one of their teammates and they didn't have that
means through the athletic department. And so they were asking me,
(40:56):
you know, what.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Would you do? How would you do a golf tournament?
And you know, we know you do it.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
They needed your event experience, yet.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
They needed and there was nothing I could do as
a university employee to help them. So fast forward another
year after I retired or quit or I guess I'm
part of that quitty, fiery, you know type of thing.
I was looking for stuff, and you know, fortunately with
the university, I had enough contacts with the university and
(41:26):
well known with the university that I had contract work
whenever I wanted it, so that helped. But then they
came to me, they're like, we did our golf tournament.
We need somebody that knows what the heck they're doing.
And so that's how kind of that all evolved in
about two thousand and nine.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
And you're still there and still the Buffs for Life
has evolved. We spoke a little bit earlier about, you know,
kind of how it went through a little bit of
an NIL movement. Now back really with what your core
is and that's helping student athletes in so many ways,
former student athletes, former student athletes.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Yes, that is our that is our main mission right
now to get back to that. And I would say
it's been about six years ago that Gary Barnett and
Brian kirkbral, especially in the light of losing a handful
of players to suicide, including Rashaan, like we got to
(42:20):
do something, we need.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
To get ahead of this.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
And I think what's really been good about us getting
into the mental health space and maybe suicide prevention space
a little bit is that I think it brought recognition
to the athletic department like we need to do something
when these kids are here to prepare them for life.
Not everybody's going to go pro, so we need to
(42:44):
do something that prepares them for life after their sport,
and we're doing a horrible job. We're not gaining them
the majors that they need to go out and be successful.
The stories I've heard, you know, from some of these players,
and you know, Sean Tuff's really championed this cause because
it was a couple of his teammates that he lost
(43:07):
due to suicide. So that kind of started the movement
into mental health, you know, awareness and you know us
gain a crisis line. But it's a hard space to
be in with athletes because there's.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
So much stigma. And that stigma has melted away.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
It's thank goodness.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
It's taken a very, very long time. And I'm going
to be really honest with you. I suffered from it
right after I came back from playing overseas.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
It was hard. I'm like, Okay, what am I going
to do with my life?
Speaker 1 (43:42):
I'm not prepared to do anything other than to play basketball.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
And that's more it than anything.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
You know, there's a lot of talk about head injuries,
and you know, especially with football players and soccer players,
But it's.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
More what we did. Athletes are so into their heads
all the.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
Time, absolutely, and they identify with what they do as
an athlete, and that is their persona, that's what they do.
So to think about trying to be successful like that
in something else is almost impossible, Right, How do you
reinvent yourself to be something else that'll get you that
everybody wants to? You know, PC and you're this, and
you're that, and you've got twelve thousand likes, and you know,
(44:21):
social media just adds another layer to all of that.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Oh, my gosh.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
I couldn't even imagine what my life would have been
with social media, my gosh, right, or the email or
you know, just.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
The negative comments.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
You know, I had a hard time as it was,
But can you imagine being an athlete at the top
of your game and you have one bad game and they,
you know, the critical of people that have no clue
what they're talking about, what it's like to be in
that position and compete at that level. I can't even
(44:58):
imagine what that would have been like. I would have
been a total wreck.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Now you had already arec sitting there watching your team
lose at home for the first time you can't do anything,
and then somebody would have popped off on Twitter about
you know, yeah, why weren't you out there?
Speaker 1 (45:11):
And you know what's really funny this is, you know,
obviously before social media, even in Europe that sports newspapers
they had sports page, you know, sports, and they were
out front highly critical of your performance. They would give
it like star ratings.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
Oh no.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Fortunately for the most part, I had good.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
Games, but man, it was it was disheartening, you know,
to get like a three out of five stars or something,
you know like that. So I can't even imagine how difficult.
And thank god Rick George and all the other athletic
departments have really recognized the need for this. I admire
(45:55):
so much what he's done, and people don't talk about it,
you know, about that other side of being an athlete,
the physical, the health, the performance, the new trip, all
that stuff, the psychological part that our athletic department really
does take care of. So hopefully there's not going to
(46:15):
be that need for us. But truthfully, you know, with
that stigma is that it's hard to find those guys
that need the help. We know they're out there, but
for them to come forward.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
For them to pick up the phone and call you.
It's another story.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
And so you know, something that Sean and it's kind
of ebbed and flowed a little bit, is the team
Captain where we pick key players from each era so
to speak to kind of check on each other. And
you know, that's the best mental that's probably the best
mental health support that you can give any teammates. You know,
there were people, there were teammates that knew that Rashwan
(46:53):
was suffering and was having a hard time. Hopefully we
can teach teammates. We're not professionals, but at least ask
the right.
Speaker 3 (47:01):
Questions, right and then tell somebody maybe and tell somebody
I talked to them and I don't like what I heard.
So maybe you guys could give them a call something
like that.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
And that's the best part about Buffs for Life is
that we're all former athletes, you know, shoulder to shoulders
supporting each other.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
We're there for each other. It's not about supporting the
big university.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
And you know, it's about us being there for each other, right,
you know, having a teammate get sick and rallying my
teammates around them and embracing them and helping them up.
And that's what Buffs for Life is. Abuffs for Life is.
It's not a handout, it's a hand.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
It's a hand.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
It's a hand, it's a hand up and to pick
them up and to make them stronger. So we're going
through a little reorganizing kind of after that whole nil
space that we were in and getting back to really
developing those programs and getting the message out to all
our CU alumni athletes that we're here for them. And
(48:06):
that's been kind of that struggle because they're like, wait,
you're in then, Ill, No, what do you you know?
So that's our biggest challenge is gained back to who
we are and what has made successful over twenty years.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
I know it's phenomenal that you guys have been doing
this for twenty years. And I've had Sean on the podcast,
Brian Cabral and Gary Barnett who have all talked about it.
So if people want to find out more, you know,
you can listen to their episodes because they talk so
highly of it. And it's just I love that all
of you are so committed to it and so involved
with it. I think it's great. Yeah, all right, at
least the last question that I ask all of my guests,
(48:41):
and you probably do it often because of being involved
with Buffs for Life. But when you do see people
that are down and having those moments, whether it's an
injury or something like that, or something else is going
on in life, what do you kind of tell people
on how to get back up, how how you got
through it and to keep moving forward. What is that
(49:01):
advice that you give as a hand up, as you said,
to get help.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
There's nothing wrong with feeling bad or feeling everybody. You know,
not everybody goes through it, but at least gain some
professional help, gives you coping mechanisms. It teaches you how
to get through things and how to process through things.
(49:28):
It took me good forty years to process some of
the things that have happened over my career. It's funny athletes,
like I said, get in their heads and they you know,
one thing that a coach says, whether it be a
youth coach, high school coach, whatever, it sticks in your head.
And there's that one thing that had stuck in my
(49:52):
head for so so long. I'm not going to mention
any you know names or anything, but it's stuck and
it took me years in years to kind of figure out.
I'm like, oh, but you've got to be willing to
do the work, and it is hard work. It is
so hard to pull yourself out of that rut. And
(50:13):
everything that makes you a great athlete are some of
the tools that you need to kind of get yourself
out of. You know, when you're having a bad game
where you get you know, you're in a rut, you
have an injury, those are the same coping mechanisms that
you need to use to pull yourself up. And that's
what I tell people, and that's what we're here for.
(50:35):
We're not professionals. We're kind of enablers.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
We kind of push them, you know, try to help.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
Be the first step, be that first step.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
And want to help themselves. I think that's kind of
the you know, big thing about Boast for Life and
why I've been so passionate about it. But you know,
at the same time, you know, it's like these younger kids,
they do things so differently. Oh they communicate, you know,
so I'm kind of that before social media. You know,
(51:05):
I know how to use it, but I don't know
how to use it like these kids. Use social media
or any you know, texting, whatever the case. So I'm
just hoping that we can bring along another generation and
it's great. The one really positive thing about the NIL
for us has been that we're involved with the current
(51:28):
student athletes and so they'll know what we do and
how we do it, and they'll come in when they
need help or they tell a teammate, hey, there's this organization.
And I hope that we last another you know, twenty years.
But that's really hard, you know, in this kind of
(51:48):
environment that we're in that really you look at what
our alumni base is going to look.
Speaker 3 (51:54):
Like, Oh yeah, very different. It is very different. Yeah,
it is.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
So I'm I'm just hoping we have like Kendall Weta,
who's you know, doing some work for us and you know,
trying to connect with athletes that have just left. So
just having that awareness and having them do their quid
pro quos on the behalf of our mission, that's it
has been not only valuable for us, but valuable for
(52:20):
these kids.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Sure just a learning experience.
Speaker 3 (52:23):
Isn't it amazing? You mentioned the one thing a coach
says to you that has resonated for four decades. People
can say things that they may not even have remembered saying,
but it resonates with somebody and stays with you. And
I've had people good and bad where a coach has
said something that was a super positive and somebody remembers
it so many years later or a negative. And I
think it's a great lesson for all of us to
(52:44):
know that the things that you say to people have consequences.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Words have Yes, yes, I know it's hard in the
heat of the moment or whatever, you don't realize, but kids,
it's me seeing our brains are still you know, developing,
even in you know, twenty years old.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
These things stick with you.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
They're hard to erase. And I've seen so many players
go through a lot of the stuff that I went
through after basketball, and you know, identity of who they
are as a person and things like that. So that's
why buff's real life is so important because they're not alone.
They might feel like they're isolated, but they're not.
Speaker 3 (53:29):
They're not. I think it's great, it's great you're doing
what you're doing. I love chatting with you. I get
to introduce you at the Coloro Sports Hall of Fame banquet,
So this was really fun. To be able to learn
more about you, and I only get like thirty seconds
to introduce you. I wish I had like an hour
because you're fun.
Speaker 2 (53:46):
Lisa.
Speaker 3 (53:46):
This is great, so thank you for doing what you do.
It's wonderful. And congratulations on all of your multiple Hall
of Fames. I'm glad you're finally in the Colorado one.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
Well, thank you. It's an honor of a lifetime for me.
Speaker 3 (53:58):
Thanks Lisa, huh, Thanks Lisa. New episodes of Cut, Traded, Fired,
Retired are released on Tuesdays. Please follow, download, and like
this podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. You can keep
up on new episodes by following on Twitter and Instagram
at ctfur podcast and also on the website ctfurpodcast dot com.
(54:19):
I'm your host, Susie Wargen. To learn more about me,
visit susiewargin dot com. I appreciate you listening to this
episode and any others. Until next time, Please be careful,
be safe, and be kind. Take care
You know, we never lost a home game, and so
that very first game that I could not play at home.
We had started the season strong, you know, seals first.
I mean, we kicked Arizona State, who is top ranked,
We kicked BYU.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
We were off to a great start.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
But that very first home game, sat on the bench
and had to watch them lose that very first home game,
and I felt so alone and so powerless as too,
because I knew that I had something to do with that.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
It was my fault.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Welcome to the Cut, Traded, Fired, Retired podcast, which features
conversations with professional athletes and coaches who have gone through
what nearly every athlete or coach goes through being cut, traded, fired,
and or they're retired. These sit downs have brought about
some great stories and advice. I'm your host, Susie Wargen.
We are long overdue to hear from another amazing female athlete.
(00:58):
This episode's guest is heading into the Colorado Sports Hall
of Fame in twenty twenty five, an honor that is
long overdue for Lisa Van Gore. Lisa hales from South
Dakota and had a phenomenal basketball career with the CU Buffs.
She left the program as the first man or woman
to score over two thousand points and over one thousand rebounds.
This despite being sidelined with an injury for a number
(01:21):
of games her junior and senior seasons. The WNBA wasn't
around when Lisa graduated from Boulders, so she went overseas
and played seven years of professional basketball, where she was
a five time All Star. After retirement, Lisa went back
to Boulder, but wasn't quite sure what she wanted to do.
She started by getting a job at a rental car company.
Eventually she was back in the athletic department helping the
(01:44):
plan events. These days, she's the executive director of the
nonprofit Buffs for Life. She bleeds black and gold and
is serving a passion for helping former CU student athletes,
ladies and gentlemen. Lisa Van Gore Cut Traded Fired Retired
podcast with Susie Wargin. Hello, Lisa van Gore, how are you?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
I'm doing great? Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Absolutely, I do not have enough women representation on the podcast,
so I'm thrilled to have you in here. Seal has
been on, Tanya Hove has been on, so here you
are in great company with those rights.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Honored to be in that company, There's no doubt about it.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah, you are a legendary basketball player with CEU. You're
going to go into the Colorado Sports Hall of Fame
in twenty twenty five, which is way way overdue. You're
already in a lot of other hall of fames, so
we should have had you in a long time ago.
So I'm thrilled about that and thrilled to have people
learn more about you that don't know about you. I
think you are well established. People familiar with see you
(02:45):
know about you, but many others need to as well.
So let's get into it. You're born in You're in
South Dakota. Yankedon South Dakota's where you grew up.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yes, a small town twelve thousand people.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Oh wow, grew up on the Missouri River. It's a
very small town. Not a whole lot for you know,
anybody to do. I didn't play sports until I was
entering my freshman year in high school. Because you know,
the timing of the whole thing. South Dakota enacted Title
nine in nineteen seventy five. They added a girls state
(03:18):
basketball tournament then, and so in seventy six, is when
I entered into my freshman year, and ironically, there were
rumors all summer long about this fantastic basketball player that
was moving to Yankton, South Dakota from Manhattan, New York.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Oh geez kay.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Her dad was.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
A reform minister and literally moved around the corner and
between Diane Heemstra and her dad, they kind of, you know,
got me shooting baskets and they're like, you need to
come to basketball camp, you need to go out for
girls basketball. Back then, girls basketball was in the fall,
(03:58):
just because you know, we didn't had the gym space
for the girls can go at the same time. So interesting,
and you know, well after I think I was in college,
that's when they changed the season to a winter season,
kind of like IA State, you know basketball. You know,
they played three on three all through my high school career.
(04:19):
And then when the scholarships, you know, the Division one
scholarships came out and they were at a disadvantage by
playing three on three, there was a lawsuit. So that's
kind of the same reason. Because Division one coach did
not know if they weren't familiar with South Dakota girls basketball,
they didn't know we played in the fall and wow, Yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
You didn't play like basketball at all growing up. Didn't
even occur to you.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
You know, I shot baskets.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
You were I'm assuming you were probably tall then you're
six to three when you were in college.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I think when I was entering, I was a little
over six foot. And you know, it's so funny. When
I went out for my first sports physcal, the doctor's like,
to my mom, you might want to think about giving
your daughter anti growth hormone because she's going to be
a giant or you know, it's just going to be
(05:13):
so hard for her growing up. And you know that's
kind of how backwards medicine.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Why, no, it was back then. My mom's like, absolutely not.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Oh thank goodness, you pick up a basketball thanks to
your neighbor. Yes, the girl that moved in from New
York and she started. She was a fantastic basketball player.
She started our freshman year.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
We won.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Out of the four years that we were in school together,
we won three state tournaments.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
And she ended up being recruited and went.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
To Oregon and I signed with Colorado and we played
each other in the first round of the AIAW Tournament
our freshman year and She's like, hey, not playing here,
not happy. And I told sacks wal Seth, I said,
we need to get this girl on our team. And
so she transferred. And the transfer rules in the AIAW
(06:07):
were very different back then, so you could come and
play right away, but you lose your scholarship. Oh so
her parents paid for her out of state tuition our
sophomore year. So that's you got to.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Play together in college. That's cool. Yeah, that's very cool.
Now I read that you had four dozen colleges that
offered you scholarships out of high school. Is that about right?
Or is day planned embellishing there?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
He's not embellishing.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Actually, I went through a recruiting process kind of twice
or three times, so to speak, because very few people,
especially coaches, you know, nationwide, knew that South Dakota played
in the fall. So by the time people stopped and
took notice of me and my ability, our season was
already over. My senior year was already over.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Oh my god, kids, October done.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, you know, we we ended the season. So I
got named to a Parade All American team. Same one
met Tanya Haveve. That's how I met Tanya Haveve. Tanya
and I go way back to when we were eighteen
years old and we.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Did you guys graduate the same year? Were you both
sens then? Oh? My goodness.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Well yeah, so that's how I met Tanya have and
we have a long, you know history together. Women's basketball
really is a small small circle, especially women of my age.
You know, we played on the same national teams. We played,
you know, overseas against each other.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
There was no WNBA until nineteen ninety six, so you guys,
I was way.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Before that, right.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
So that's when all these coaches on like the East
Coast and you know started noticing me.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Okay because you played on the on the up grade team.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Great, and I had already signed with Colorado. But a
month after I signed, Reney Portland left and went to
Penn State.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yeah, that was the co at the time.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
She's like Title nine, they have no money and you
need to get out of there. I can't recruit you
to Penn State, but just go somewhere else.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
So she was trying to talk you out of going
to see you.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Well, she had already signed me.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
She wasn't, you know, ethically, she couldn't tell me to
come to Penn State and there's no way I would
have gone to Penn State. Okay, but all the schools
that had been recruiting me, all in the Big Eight,
all the schools out in the West Coast, they started
recruiting me again.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Oregon wanted me.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
But the problem was the aia W Ruhles said, you
had to pay for your transportation to all these schools
to visit, and once you're on campus then they can
pick up the tab.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
You didn't get any travel money at all.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
No, this is the AIAW.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
So being in South Dakota, we visited all the Big
Eight schools. But then USLA really wanted me. I mean
USLA Billy Moore was the coach, but I couldn't my
parents couldn't afford to fly me out there. So I
did fly out to Colorado and fell in love with Colorado.
(09:07):
But you know, when Reeny left and I was out
of my letter of intent, I ended up being re recruited.
And Socks wal Seth, who was a legendary men's coach
for twenty years, was still technically on staff and he
drove up to South Dakota and he grew up in Pier,
(09:28):
South Dakota. So the South Dakota connection was definitely there.
He grew up with one of my teammate's father, and
he talked me in disdain.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
My mom was a little against it because my mom's like, well,
what do you think about academics and Socks? You know,
typical socks, right, academics, she's there to play basketball.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
She's not there, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
And it was my mom did not really talk to
Socks until my junior year.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
She didn't know. Oh, my goodness, because you know it's yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
But my dad when he would come to watch me play,
he and Socks would go to the Perkins across the
street from the Corpse Events Center. Oh and just have
hours and hours of coffee time every time. He and
my dad were two peas in a pod.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Oh that's cool.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Yeah, so wow. It meant a lot to have that
soft Dakota connection. And you know, Socks was just a
really cool, you know family.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
We were.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
We played against his sons and his friends, scrimmaged, you
know against them. I mean, we were just like one big,
happy family.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
And Socks was very important for Seal too, who then
came in after he retired, and you had her for
the last two years, right of your career. Yes, is
that right? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
So Seal came in in eighty three, and uh, you know,
Socks didn't know how to coach women and write.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Women's basketball was still evolving.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I think with the guys, you know, there wasn't so
much emphasis on fundamentals.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Right, but we were still involved. I mean, think about it.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I started in seventy six, I came to Colorado in
eighty I was still I mean, thank god for my
high school coach who really pounded fundamentals and pounded the
fact that if I put in the time and the
effort that I could get a college scholarship. My mom
wasn't totally on board because I grew up in a
(11:31):
family of seven kids. I was the second youngest, and
it was expected that all the kids, if they wanted
to go to college, would have to start, you know, working.
And it was around my sophomore year in high school.
My coach is like, you know, you need to really
let her practice and play and not worry about chores
(11:52):
and stuff like that because she can earn her way
through college.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
And my mom kind of was resistant to it. And
I hope she doesn't listen to this because she really
denies that she wasn't supportive, but she was. She'd never
had a child that was an athlete.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Well, and honestly, back then, Lisa, I mean, girls didn't
get money to go to college for athletics, so that
would be her mindset, like, how would you do that? Well,
and I I.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Had four older brothers. My one that's two years older,
played high school basketball. By the way, he's a big
time sportscaster back in South Dakota. He worked for the
University of South Dakota and South Dakota State and you know,
the local high school.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
But he he.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Sat the bench, So my mom wasn't used to that, right.
The four older brothers, they all were brilliant and smart.
Doctor a lawyer. Yes, So my oldest brother is six six,
he became a lawyer. My next brother was six five,
he became a doctor. Brilliant guys. And you know, it's
(12:57):
really funny because they're more ells of my accomplishments and
I'm of theirs. I'm like, guys, come on, I'm the
dumb jock in the family and you guys are so
you know, successful and everything like that.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
So but they wanted to do what you did. I
bet they did ye.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
I think, you know, more so because my dad kind
of paid attention. You know, my dad grew up he
was eighteen when the war, was seventeen when the war
broke out. He lied about his age and enlisted when
he was seventeen and got kicked out of officer school
and then came back. But anyway, I think it was
(13:36):
always his dream to play basketball. So I was kind
of living vicurious, you know, he was living vicious through me.
And I think my brothers were kind of jealous of that,
because you know, he didn't really pay attention, you know,
to their academic I mean, my brothers got great grades
and who's who in college, you know, all that kind
(13:56):
of stuff, and so it was kind of cool that
I had that from my parents.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Yeah, absolutely, later on.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
I mean it wasn't until I got to junior or
senior in high school that my mom's like.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Oh, maybe you are okay at this. That's really interesting.
All right. So when you do go to see you
your freshman year, you just come out, I mean crazy.
You average a double double, eighteen and a half points
per game, ten point six rebounds per game. Did the
college game come kind of easy for you or what
(14:27):
was that like, especially only having played four years of
high school ball.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
You know, Number one, Socks didn't ever let me be
a freshman. I mean he saw talent, he saw potential.
I had great high school coaching and plus there was
no competition for me in Yankedon South Dakota other than
playing against guys. So I played nuntime ball with you know,
late twenties, early thirty guys all the time. And I
(14:54):
think that's what made Diane and I, you know, Division
one players. You know, they didn't have AAU basketball. We
didn't have team camps. You know, we had the skills
camp that my high school coach was famous for. But
that's about it. And that's all we did. We played
against guys. We didn't have any other competition.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
That's what I think.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
I feel like made me a player that was ready
for the next level.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Oh, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
And so it didn't seem like any different for me
as freshmen. And you know, fortunately it was that freshman
year that got me noticed by the people down in
Colorado Springs. I was so fortunate too, And looking back,
I had no business being on that Team USA, Team USA,
(15:45):
Yeah it was Aba USA back then. Socks is really
good friend was the head of it. I got the
opportunity to play with Dan Donovan, Denise Curry, all.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
These as like an eighteen year old nineteen nineteen year
old smokes.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Kim Ulk was our point guard.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Oh my gosh wow. And she is fiery then as
she is now.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
She coaches like she played. There's no there's no doubt.
I so admire her and what she's been able to accomplish.
But to have that opportunity to play against all Americans
like that on a day to day I didn't know,
because you know, the transition into college was so easy
(16:27):
for me, but this took it to a whole different level.
I'm sure as far as you know, being you know,
ready and mentally too, I wasn't mature enough to handle
that responsibility because I never had I mean, I had it.
I wouldn't say easy, but I did well, you.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Did, yeah, because the talent wasn't there.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Yeah, you know, I definitely think, you know, when I
came to Colorado, I was the perfect thing that that
team was looking for. They didn't have a big girl
inside and I had a lot of veteran players around me,
so I never, you know, felt like I was a freshman.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I mean, I had that support.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
If I'd get into a ruckus on the court, my
point guard would come in between me and the girl,
and like you got a problem with my center, you know,
and things like that.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
I you know, I love it.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I grew up, you know, being six ' three in
high school or even you know, five ten in junior.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
High or whatever I was. I was so so shy.
I still am.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
I'm so much of an introvert. Really yeah, people don't
know it. I have two sides of me. When I
step on the basketball court, I was a different person.
But my teammates used to tease me all the time
because I was a very quiet but basketball brought me out.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Get me a little jeckle and hide, right, I did
I do? Your alter ego is on the yah.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
You know, I'd sharpen my elbows and I was ready
to go. And you know that was the cool part.
You know, my teammates when I was a freshman, we
were so close, so close it was, and I still
have memories. I still keep in touch with a lot
of them. We did everything together, we hung out together,
(18:19):
and these were all upper classmen. They took me under
their wing, and you know supported me. So that's what
I think made that transition so easy.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
That's cool. I love that. And then you continue to
do really well your freshman and sophomore year. You guys
have twenty eight win seasons your junior year. Something happened
with day that year.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Right, we went into the NC douaa.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Okay, that's what it was. There was a change. Yeah,
so that changed the too.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Well, we were playing against my freshman sophomore year. We
were playing in what they called the Inner Mountain Conference.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Okay, you know it.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Had all the Utah schools BYU, Idaho State, Colorado State, Wyoming.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Well, going to do ram? Did I just hear rams? Jane?
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I was going to say, we never lost to c
SU when I was a college player. So it's funny
because I give Becky Hammond you know, a hard time
about that, right, because she's a South Dakota girl too.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
You guys have that in common.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, we have.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
My assistant coach in high school was her head coach
out in Rapped City.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
So kidding, yeah, we have that connection.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
That's cool.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Yeah, or the same number.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Yeah, she's oh yeah, both twenty five.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
I know.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
She's like way anything that I've ever, you know, dreamt
of accomplishing. But I just so admire her, and you
know what she's done for women's.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Basketball, yes, in general.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
So then your junior year you go into the n
C Double A, so things change a little bit. Your
senior year is that when Seal comes in, Yes, okay,
and then you play four games and have a stress fracture, yes,
on your foot.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
And I was so afraid.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
I remember we were going and playing down in New
Mexico and then on to Northern Arizona and I couldn't walk.
I'm like, how am I going to tell? So I
told the trainer, I said, don't tell Seal. I don't
know what's going on. And then we had practice. She's like,
what is wrong? So they did all the X rays.
(20:23):
Obviously it was too early.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Because it was a stress fracture.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Was a stress fracture, Yeah, But I didn't know what
was going on, and so it was it was a
hard time.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
I think it was hard time for Seal too. You know.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
You got to remember Seal when she came to Colorado
was twenty seven to twenty eight.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
She was so young.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I was probably twenty two, twenty one, twenty two.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Yeah, she was not very much older than most of.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
You, right, And I think Seal tried so so hard
to put that distance between us. There were a lot
of rules, and I think she was just trying to
earn the respect in that distance.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
That we could not buy friend.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
I'm not your friend and we That was so different
between you know, Socks and our assistant coach. We're friends,
we're buddies especially. Yeah, so it was a very different dynamic.
I think she came in with the mission from you know,
Eddie Crowder, the directive from Eddie Crowder. You know, we
(21:28):
need to be tougher on these girls. We need more fundamentals,
We need more I would say, discipline.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah, but you know, women's.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Basketball was evolving. I think everybody was learning. I mean
for Seale to get a job at twenty seven years old,
so I think with being in that position at such
a young age comes the responsibility of her, the maturity
to handle certain situations.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
To come in.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
And lose your star center four games into the season,
and it was hard.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, those were hard years.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I think mentally, not only mentally, but physically for me,
it cost me an opportunity to make the Olympic team
because I didn't play that whole year. Nobody saw me play.
I got to the last cut before you know, I
met with the current national team pan Am team.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
So it was hard. Yeah, it was hard mentally.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I talked to a lot of athletes on this podcast
about being injured and being in the training room and
even though you're still around your team you see them,
it's not the same and it's a really lonely dark
place and can really and it lasted for you for
quite a while because then you got a medical red shirt,
right so you're able to come back the next year.
(22:48):
Do you play as much the next.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Year or I do come back because of the stress fracture,
I ended up having a foot injury, so I sat
out my fifth year half the season and that was hard.
I think the hardest part was that very first game
because my first three years at CU, we never lost a.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Home game, never lost a home game.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
So the three year Socks was a coach, we never
lost a home game. And we played Tennessee, we played
Tanya Jave had the great big come back homecoming game
and we beat them by nineteen points.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
They were in the top five.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Oh my god, that was a pat summit team that
was a pat summit team.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
We were ranked probably in the top fifteen. You know,
we never lost a home game, and so that very
first game that I could not play at home. We
had started the season strong, you know, Seals first. I mean,
we kicked Arizona State, who was top ranked, We kicked BYU.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
We were off to a great start. But that very first.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Home game, sat on the bench and had to watch
them lose that very first home game, and I felt
so alone and so so powerless as too, because I
knew that I had something to do with that. It
was my fault that I was sitting there. You know,
obviously you can't help injuries, especially that type of injury.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
But it was hard.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
You were powerless, and I was cororless.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
And you know, there's nothing because I was always the one,
you know that if things got tight, that I was
the go to person, and so it was really kind
of hard those two years at you know, my last
two years at CU were kind of dark and difficult.
You know, Socks hadn't recruited to the level to maintain
(24:38):
how good we were in my early years, and that's
probably the reason why he retired and Seal was brought in,
and let me tell you, Seal did a heck.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Of a job.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
I mean literally the year after I left, you know,
she had Bridget Turner and Tracy Tripp on our team,
and so it just was a bad start for her
and it was a bad ending for so. I loved
the University of Colorado. Fortunately I had an opportunity to
go over seas, but.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Not on the best note, even though you were so accomplished.
Though you were the first male or female to have
over two thousand points and a thousand rebounds.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
But it was a different game, you know, but you did.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
That with three years and then just three and a
half years. Yeah, I mean a few games, you know,
between two other years. That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
But I felt, I felt, you know, in my head
that I hadn't accomplished anything because we ended on such
a bad note. And then I went overseas and had
a fantastic.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Career seven years.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Right.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Yeah, I think to the regular person that would look
at your stats and go, wow, what an accomplishment. But
then to have you say it was kind of a
sad ending, which is sad, you know.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
You know the biggest part about it is that we
didn't have the support outside the team. You know, somebody couldn't.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Talk to anybody about it.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
We can talk deal, you know, Coach Berry. I still
call her Coach Berry to this day. Coach Berry had
put that distance, so it's really hard to talk to
her about those things. And I had Beth Burns, who's
a legendary coach herself, as my support. She you know,
worked me out for the Olympic trials, so I mean
(26:21):
did all this stuff and try to you know, support me,
but she also had to maintain that distance so not
to have somebody to talk to about how hard it
was to get through practice and you know school wasn't
going you know, all that kind of stuff to you know,
kind of juggle that. I'm so jealous of what these
kids have now. You know, they have the nutritionists, they
(26:44):
have the academic support and the mental support and the
mental support and the physically you know, the physical well
being the nutritionists is. I was blown away when I
heard the nutritionists talk at buff Bell's about what they
do for each of the players and like they look
at everything that goes into that athlete's body.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
And training table is serious.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
It is.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
We didn't have that, so, I mean we used to
eat at Round the Corner back in the day for
pregame meals because that was one of Socks's buddies, or Goldeni's,
which was a renowned you know spaghetti you know Italian
place down the hill, and so, you know, we didn't
look at things like that.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
And maybe your injury may not have happened because now
there's so much more tuned into you know, load management
and how much you're working out and what you're doing,
and stress fractures are a great example of being overworked.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I look back at that stress fracture and it should
never have happened. We were running on the track, we
were running on the pavement, and basketball shoes like high tops,
Converse con not not the Chucky not the Chucky Teas.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Okay, I was like, oh no, support the.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Converse All Stars, which were leather shoes, but still they
were the worst basketball shoe ever made.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
We used to wear those for the USA team too.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
It's like, oh, wosh, it's amazing you didn't have more injuries.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
It is.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
But you know, I look too at if we knew
back then what we know now, my career would have
been so much different, not even you know, just college
but playing professionally.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
You know, they didn't know you go over to Europe.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
They were so far behind. All they knew about training
the basketball players how they trained a soccer player. And
you know, when you think about the difference between those
two things, that's huge. No wonder I have no ankles left,
or knees or you know anything like that bad back
(28:56):
and so it's I'm so happy be to see how
far women's sports have come, yes, and how much more
they are supported, especially in the mental health space.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Right, And let's get into that in a moment. I
want to talk about your You had seven years pro
between Spain where you were a five time All Star
and Italy and France. Aside from them treating you like
a soccer player for training was like just being overseas
and how much I'm always so curious what that did
(29:29):
for you as a person, because what an experience to
be able to have that.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Well, it definitely brought me out of my shell being
a college athlete, even more so now than back then.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
We lived in.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
A very close bubble. Everything is kind of well back then,
not all taking care of a bit. You know, we
live in a very sheltered environment and going over there,
you're pretty much on your own. Fortunately, I've had great coaches,
I've had great American teammates. It helps get through. But
(30:03):
I would not trade that experience for anything in the world. Yeah,
because I had to grow up, I had to be assertive,
I had to learn a new language, and their life
is just so different and you would never It's hard
for I think girls these days to go over there
and play because they're so you know, they have the
(30:26):
WNBA and we didn't have email. To pick up the
phone the first minute was like twenty bucks.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
It was so.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Expensive to you know, call home, so I rarely called home.
A letter took ten days to two weeks to get home.
I mean, yeah, you know it was hard.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
It was really Did you try and keep a long
distance relationship going well?
Speaker 1 (30:52):
He actually was a basketball player. He played in wake Forest.
We met when the two national teams in ninety Needy one,
we played in the World University Game. He was on
the men's team. He went back to Wake Forest and
you know, I went back to Colorado and we just
kind of went about our ways. And it was my
third year over in Spain that you know, one of
(31:14):
the guys on the team that I had met from
my previous years. He's like, I need you to meet
my American teammate. You'll really really like him. And it
ended up being him. So we dated for three years,
but it just got to be hard. I was hard
of the long distance relationship, and I really you know,
(31:37):
I wasn't done playing basketball. That was the hardest part,
is the long distance because he quit playing basketball. He
was trying to get on his feet, you know, back home,
and I didn't know what I wanted to do with
my life after basketball. So yeah, it was like I said,
I wouldn't trade that experience. They they have a whole
different lifestyle. To this day, I still make, you know,
(31:59):
dishes like yeah or Tomasu from you know, Italy or
you know, I.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Just love the culture.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Back then, you know, we were so busy hanging out,
you know, as Americans that we didn't even appreciate where
we were. Like in Barcelona, my Madrid. I would go
visit my teammate Kim Hampton, who played for Arizona State.
We were on a national team together, you know all this,
and we would just hang out together. We would drive
by the big famous cathedral and like, yeah, that's kind
(32:31):
of cool, but never appreciated how cool that whole thing is.
It wasn't until thirty years later when I went back,
I'm like.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Wow, I should probably take a picture by this.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
But what a great opportunity for us, I think, just
to grow as a person and to mature and you know,
have responsibility for yourself.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
And you were.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Kind of alone over there, but you know, the Spanish
were very good at kind of embracing us and taking
us into their homes and you know, feeding us meals
on Sunday and so.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
You have a host family when you were there, did
you live on your own?
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Lived on our own? Okay, but my teammates families. You know,
it was a very different structure. It was club sports,
but a lot of the girls on my team were
working or you know, they didn't get paid. You know,
the Americans were the ones that were getting paid. Not
all the players got paid. You know, there were a
couple teams that I played for that everybody got paid,
(33:31):
but we were gain paid the most money.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Oh, interesting, got paid more than the locals did.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Yeah, it was club sports. They didn't have university teams like.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
We do here. Okay, it was a very different experience.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
I bet when did you know it was time to
retire or were you retired by the game.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
So my last year was in France and x And Provence,
beautiful country. It just was difficult and I had heard
these rumors. I had the chance my first year to
go to France, but they're like, you know, the French
really hate Americans, they don't like Americans. And when I
got there, you know, each team was allowed to foreigners,
(34:14):
and there was only one other American out of ten
teams in the first division that were American.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
WHOA.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
So it wasn't the French people in x And Province.
They were so wonderful and so embracing and so it
was beautiful. Part of the It was my teammates, my
French teammates that and my coach that did not like Americans. Yeah,
it was that was so Plus I had a lot
(34:43):
of back issues then and I was just tired of
being away from you know, to put up with that
and to be away from home and the injury. It
was time. It was time, it wasn't you know, Like
at CU I wanted to finish on a high note.
And unfortunate, as an athlete, you don't always get that.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
I mean you want that, you know.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Especially playing professionally. That's my only regret is ending on
a high note, like going to the European Cup, you know,
not having to end it on because of an injury.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Or that's how funny end yep. Very few get to
go out on top. Very few get the Peyton manning.
You win a Super Bowl and you retire, John Oway
win a Super Bowl, retire exactly. There's a handful.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
And you know, I.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Retired in ninety one. I was thirty one maybe years old,
and I you know, I'm like, okay, what do I
do now?
Speaker 3 (35:41):
And what did you do? How'd you decide?
Speaker 2 (35:43):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
I was like, here I was with a resume that
had nothing but playing professional basketball in Europe, not in
the United States. I was five years away from being
able to play in the But I had to like
support myself. So I worked with CU. Back then, they
(36:06):
didn't have the kind of post eligibility support for their athletes,
career development leadership type of things that they have now.
And so I took whatever job I could get, and
that ended up being with Enterprise rent a car because
you know, all these jobs that I interviewed for They're like, well,
you have no experience enterprise rent a car. And to
(36:29):
this day they recognize student athletes as bringing a skill
set that you know, now it's like commonplace. You know,
companies recruit student athletes just because of the dedication, the teamwork,
the discipline, the hard work, you know, all that kind
(36:50):
of stuff that nobody really knew back then about athletes.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
They saw all the stuff that wasn't on the resume. Yes,
that's really cool.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
It was a great way.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
It taught me so much about you know, customer service,
about marketing, about all the little different things management. I
became a manager, and was this in Bolder. I started
in Boulder, Okay, and so literally three blocks away from
where I was living. And it wasn't what I would
have picked. It was either, you know, go back to school.
(37:24):
I graduated from CU with a biology major. I'm like, okay,
what do I do with that? Do I go you know,
I would have had to go back to school. Do
I want to become a teacher? Do I want to coach?
Do I want to I knew I wanted to go.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Back in athletics.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
That's what I really wanted, and I tried and tried
try to get a job with SEAL, to go to
grad school, you know, try to do all these you know,
different things to get myself. It took me a long time.
I knew Bolder was my home. I didn't want to
go anywherewhere else. I didn't want to coach because that
(38:00):
became the vagabond existence would become the vagabond existence that
I had overseas. I wanted to plant roots, hopefully meet
somebody and just settle down. And that's what I decided
to do. And enterprise kept me in Colorado. I tried
(38:20):
many times to get anything with athletic apartment, anything, the
alumni c club director, you know. I lost out to
Darien Hagen for that job. I know, but fortunately John Meadows,
who was a great AAU girls basketball coach in Boulder,
(38:40):
I was very close to the family. John was working
in the athletic department and he knew how much I
wanted to come back for SeeU. So the only job
that he's like, hey, my event coordinator, just quit. Do
you want to do it? And totally threw me into
planning these major of them events and banquets and the
(39:03):
Hall of Fame for CU. I was disinducted the year
before and.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
They have been to the banquet does an inductee.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
I know it's a funny story, you know, because I
do have that experience. When Tom Lawrence called me to
tell me, I thought, are you going to offer me
a job? Because that's what my background is, That's what
I do, I mean, and so it was funny. He's like,
we're inducting you finally into the Hall of Fame, and
I said, oh, I thought it was to offer me
(39:30):
a job.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
Do you want me to plan it as well?
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Exactly?
Speaker 3 (39:35):
So that is funny. So you do that for quite
a while right as an event, and then you get
very involved with Buffs for Life, which you are the
executive director of now, which is a huge part of
your life, and you affect so many people with that.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Yes, in the athletic department, we went through a very
difficult time in two thousand and four. Gary Barnett was
the football coach. He ended up getting fired, My boss
gets fired. They just kind of cleaned house, and operating
in an athletic department wasn't the same. We didn't have
the autonomy. The university wouldn't give us the autonomy to
(40:13):
do things so it just became very, very difficult. And
one of the reasons I think I was successful in
that athletic department is because I had the passion. I
was a Buff and I wanted to make sure that
our athletic department was. It was just really a difficult time.
So I had left the athletic department without a job,
(40:34):
without anything to do. And you know, the year before
I left, Dave Thistle, who played football at CU, it's like, hey,
we need somebody. Like all the original board members of
Buffs for Life, they wanted a way to raise money
for one of their teammates and they didn't have that
means through the athletic department. And so they were asking me,
(40:56):
you know, what.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Would you do? How would you do a golf tournament?
And you know, we know you do it.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
They needed your event experience, yet.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
They needed and there was nothing I could do as
a university employee to help them. So fast forward another
year after I retired or quit or I guess I'm
part of that quitty, fiery, you know type of thing.
I was looking for stuff, and you know, fortunately with
the university, I had enough contacts with the university and
(41:26):
well known with the university that I had contract work
whenever I wanted it, so that helped. But then they
came to me, they're like, we did our golf tournament.
We need somebody that knows what the heck they're doing.
And so that's how kind of that all evolved in
about two thousand and nine.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
And you're still there and still the Buffs for Life
has evolved. We spoke a little bit earlier about, you know,
kind of how it went through a little bit of
an NIL movement. Now back really with what your core
is and that's helping student athletes in so many ways,
former student athletes, former student athletes.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Yes, that is our that is our main mission right
now to get back to that. And I would say
it's been about six years ago that Gary Barnett and
Brian kirkbral, especially in the light of losing a handful
of players to suicide, including Rashaan, like we got to
(42:20):
do something, we need.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
To get ahead of this.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
And I think what's really been good about us getting
into the mental health space and maybe suicide prevention space
a little bit is that I think it brought recognition
to the athletic department like we need to do something
when these kids are here to prepare them for life.
Not everybody's going to go pro, so we need to
(42:44):
do something that prepares them for life after their sport,
and we're doing a horrible job. We're not gaining them
the majors that they need to go out and be successful.
The stories I've heard, you know, from some of these players,
and you know, Sean Tuff's really championed this cause because
it was a couple of his teammates that he lost
(43:07):
due to suicide. So that kind of started the movement
into mental health, you know, awareness and you know us
gain a crisis line. But it's a hard space to
be in with athletes because there's.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
So much stigma. And that stigma has melted away.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
It's thank goodness.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
It's taken a very, very long time. And I'm going
to be really honest with you. I suffered from it
right after I came back from playing overseas.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
It was hard. I'm like, Okay, what am I going
to do with my life?
Speaker 1 (43:42):
I'm not prepared to do anything other than to play basketball.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
And that's more it than anything.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
You know, there's a lot of talk about head injuries,
and you know, especially with football players and soccer players,
But it's.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
More what we did. Athletes are so into their heads
all the.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
Time, absolutely, and they identify with what they do as
an athlete, and that is their persona, that's what they do.
So to think about trying to be successful like that
in something else is almost impossible, Right, How do you
reinvent yourself to be something else that'll get you that
everybody wants to? You know, PC and you're this, and
you're that, and you've got twelve thousand likes, and you know,
(44:21):
social media just adds another layer to all of that.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Oh, my gosh.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
I couldn't even imagine what my life would have been
with social media, my gosh, right, or the email or
you know, just.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
The negative comments.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
You know, I had a hard time as it was,
But can you imagine being an athlete at the top
of your game and you have one bad game and they,
you know, the critical of people that have no clue
what they're talking about, what it's like to be in
that position and compete at that level. I can't even
(44:58):
imagine what that would have been like. I would have
been a total wreck.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Now you had already arec sitting there watching your team
lose at home for the first time you can't do anything,
and then somebody would have popped off on Twitter about
you know, yeah, why weren't you out there?
Speaker 1 (45:11):
And you know what's really funny this is, you know,
obviously before social media, even in Europe that sports newspapers
they had sports page, you know, sports, and they were
out front highly critical of your performance. They would give
it like star ratings.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
Oh no.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Fortunately for the most part, I had good.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
Games, but man, it was it was disheartening, you know,
to get like a three out of five stars or something,
you know like that. So I can't even imagine how difficult.
And thank god Rick George and all the other athletic
departments have really recognized the need for this. I admire
(45:55):
so much what he's done, and people don't talk about it,
you know, about that other side of being an athlete,
the physical, the health, the performance, the new trip, all
that stuff, the psychological part that our athletic department really
does take care of. So hopefully there's not going to
(46:15):
be that need for us. But truthfully, you know, with
that stigma is that it's hard to find those guys
that need the help. We know they're out there, but
for them to come forward.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
For them to pick up the phone and call you.
It's another story.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
And so you know, something that Sean and it's kind
of ebbed and flowed a little bit, is the team
Captain where we pick key players from each era so
to speak to kind of check on each other. And
you know, that's the best mental that's probably the best
mental health support that you can give any teammates. You know,
there were people, there were teammates that knew that Rashwan
(46:53):
was suffering and was having a hard time. Hopefully we
can teach teammates. We're not professionals, but at least ask
the right.
Speaker 3 (47:01):
Questions, right and then tell somebody maybe and tell somebody
I talked to them and I don't like what I heard.
So maybe you guys could give them a call something
like that.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
And that's the best part about Buffs for Life is
that we're all former athletes, you know, shoulder to shoulders
supporting each other.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
We're there for each other. It's not about supporting the
big university.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
And you know, it's about us being there for each other, right,
you know, having a teammate get sick and rallying my
teammates around them and embracing them and helping them up.
And that's what Buffs for Life is. Abuffs for Life is.
It's not a handout, it's a hand.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
It's a hand.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
It's a hand, it's a hand up and to pick
them up and to make them stronger. So we're going
through a little reorganizing kind of after that whole nil
space that we were in and getting back to really
developing those programs and getting the message out to all
our CU alumni athletes that we're here for them. And
(48:06):
that's been kind of that struggle because they're like, wait,
you're in then, Ill, No, what do you you know?
So that's our biggest challenge is gained back to who
we are and what has made successful over twenty years.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
I know it's phenomenal that you guys have been doing
this for twenty years. And I've had Sean on the podcast,
Brian Cabral and Gary Barnett who have all talked about it.
So if people want to find out more, you know,
you can listen to their episodes because they talk so
highly of it. And it's just I love that all
of you are so committed to it and so involved
with it. I think it's great. Yeah, all right, at
least the last question that I ask all of my guests,
(48:41):
and you probably do it often because of being involved
with Buffs for Life. But when you do see people
that are down and having those moments, whether it's an
injury or something like that, or something else is going
on in life, what do you kind of tell people
on how to get back up, how how you got
through it and to keep moving forward. What is that
(49:01):
advice that you give as a hand up, as you said,
to get help.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
There's nothing wrong with feeling bad or feeling everybody. You know,
not everybody goes through it, but at least gain some
professional help, gives you coping mechanisms. It teaches you how
to get through things and how to process through things.
(49:28):
It took me good forty years to process some of
the things that have happened over my career. It's funny athletes,
like I said, get in their heads and they you know,
one thing that a coach says, whether it be a
youth coach, high school coach, whatever, it sticks in your head.
And there's that one thing that had stuck in my
(49:52):
head for so so long. I'm not going to mention
any you know names or anything, but it's stuck and
it took me years in years to kind of figure out.
I'm like, oh, but you've got to be willing to
do the work, and it is hard work. It is
so hard to pull yourself out of that rut. And
(50:13):
everything that makes you a great athlete are some of
the tools that you need to kind of get yourself
out of. You know, when you're having a bad game
where you get you know, you're in a rut, you
have an injury, those are the same coping mechanisms that
you need to use to pull yourself up. And that's
what I tell people, and that's what we're here for.
(50:35):
We're not professionals. We're kind of enablers.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
We kind of push them, you know, try to help.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
Be the first step, be that first step.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
And want to help themselves. I think that's kind of
the you know, big thing about Boast for Life and
why I've been so passionate about it. But you know,
at the same time, you know, it's like these younger kids,
they do things so differently. Oh they communicate, you know,
so I'm kind of that before social media. You know,
(51:05):
I know how to use it, but I don't know
how to use it like these kids. Use social media
or any you know, texting, whatever the case. So I'm
just hoping that we can bring along another generation and
it's great. The one really positive thing about the NIL
for us has been that we're involved with the current
(51:28):
student athletes and so they'll know what we do and
how we do it, and they'll come in when they
need help or they tell a teammate, hey, there's this organization.
And I hope that we last another you know, twenty years.
But that's really hard, you know, in this kind of
(51:48):
environment that we're in that really you look at what
our alumni base is going to look.
Speaker 3 (51:54):
Like, Oh yeah, very different. It is very different. Yeah,
it is.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
So I'm I'm just hoping we have like Kendall Weta,
who's you know, doing some work for us and you know,
trying to connect with athletes that have just left. So
just having that awareness and having them do their quid
pro quos on the behalf of our mission, that's it
has been not only valuable for us, but valuable for
(52:20):
these kids.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Sure just a learning experience.
Speaker 3 (52:23):
Isn't it amazing? You mentioned the one thing a coach
says to you that has resonated for four decades. People
can say things that they may not even have remembered saying,
but it resonates with somebody and stays with you. And
I've had people good and bad where a coach has
said something that was a super positive and somebody remembers
it so many years later or a negative. And I
think it's a great lesson for all of us to
(52:44):
know that the things that you say to people have consequences.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Words have Yes, yes, I know it's hard in the
heat of the moment or whatever, you don't realize, but kids,
it's me seeing our brains are still you know, developing,
even in you know, twenty years old.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
These things stick with you.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
They're hard to erase. And I've seen so many players
go through a lot of the stuff that I went
through after basketball, and you know, identity of who they
are as a person and things like that. So that's
why buff's real life is so important because they're not alone.
They might feel like they're isolated, but they're not.
Speaker 3 (53:29):
They're not. I think it's great, it's great you're doing
what you're doing. I love chatting with you. I get
to introduce you at the Coloro Sports Hall of Fame banquet,
So this was really fun. To be able to learn
more about you, and I only get like thirty seconds
to introduce you. I wish I had like an hour
because you're fun.
Speaker 2 (53:46):
Lisa.
Speaker 3 (53:46):
This is great, so thank you for doing what you do.
It's wonderful. And congratulations on all of your multiple Hall
of Fames. I'm glad you're finally in the Colorado one.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
Well, thank you. It's an honor of a lifetime for me.
Speaker 3 (53:58):
Thanks Lisa, huh, Thanks Lisa. New episodes of Cut, Traded, Fired,
Retired are released on Tuesdays. Please follow, download, and like
this podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. You can keep
up on new episodes by following on Twitter and Instagram
at ctfur podcast and also on the website ctfurpodcast dot com.
(54:19):
I'm your host, Susie Wargen. To learn more about me,
visit susiewargin dot com. I appreciate you listening to this
episode and any others. Until next time, Please be careful,
be safe, and be kind. Take care
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