January 30, 2025 • 30 mins
Join me for a fun and insightful conversation with Despina Kamper, a respected naturopath and nutritionist, as she shares her journey of addressing stress management for women over 40.
Discover how stress, rather than just diet, plays a pivotal role in overall health, as Despina highlights the critical brain-gut connection. Learn from her experience conducting anxiety awareness workshops and retreats designed to help women manage stress and improve their quality of life.
We explore the significant benefits of proper breathing techniques, particularly during the perimenopausal and menopausal stages, and challenge the social stigmas surrounding aging. As a personal trainer, I reflect on the surprising challenges of teaching clients to breathe correctly, underscoring diaphragmatic breathing's role in reducing stress and enhancing wellness.
We also segue into a broader discussion on self-worth and beauty for women navigating this pivotal life stage.
You will learn about the empowering spaces created at Despina's retreats, where women can connect and share experiences in intimate settings like the Greek islands and the Hunter Valley in Australia. These retreats offer more than just relaxation—they foster personal growth, community, and a revaluation of intrinsic qualities over superficial markers.
Despina's insights will remind you of the continuous journey of self-discovery and the profound connections that can emerge from shared experiences.
Hunter Valley, NSW Retreat Discount Code: SONYA20
Links:
Self Discovery Lab Website
Hunter Valley Retreat March 2025
UK and Greece Retreats 2025
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sonya (00:01):
Welcome to the Dear Menopause podcast.
I'm Sonya Lovell, your host Now.
I've been bringing youconversations with amazing
menopause experts for over twoyears now.
If you have missed any of thoseconversations, now's the time
to go back and listen, and youcan always share them with
anyone you think needs to hearthem.
This way, more people can findthese amazing conversations,
(00:25):
needs to hear them.
This way, more people can findthese amazing conversations.
Hi everyone, I am very excitedtoday to bring you a guest who
is coming to us with a littlebit of a different angle to what
we often talk about on here.
I'm going to introduce you toDespina Kamper.
Now.
Despina combined her passionsfor health, mental health and
education and developed theaward-winning Self Discovery Lab
(00:47):
, and this is a place thatsupports women in dealing with
their emotional challenges ofthis crazy society that we live
in today.
Despina, welcome to DearMenopause.
Despina (00:57):
Thank you so much, sonya, and it was really nice to
hear award-winning.
I'd forgotten that we won thataward a few years ago and you
just reminded me, so thank you.
Own those awards.
Sonya (01:09):
Yeah, absolutely Awesome.
Okay.
So I gave a really brief intro.
Very, very scratched thesurface as to who you are and
what you do.
Why don't you share witheveryone that's listening who
you are?
Despina (01:21):
and what you do, sure, so, as you've said, I'm Despina
and I'm a naturopath andnutritionist, but my focus is
mainly around stress disordersand anxiety disorders.
So I've been in clinicalpractice for about you lose the
years, don't you?
At least 25 years anyway and Istumbled upon this area.
(01:42):
I work very closely withpsychologists and I look at diet
, lifestyle.
I've also got a qualificationin counselling and how we can
support people through.
I like to call them stressdisorders rather than anxiety
disorders, because we don't allfall in that picture.
So I had a clinic in the easternsuburbs.
I saw a lot of women who wereeating the right diets, all on
(02:04):
organic foods, a diet that wasso much better than mine.
Yet symptoms were still there,all kinds of symptoms that they
were coming to see me with.
So it really occurred to methat, yes, diet is important,
but what I found more importantwas managing their stress.
Managing their stress and weknow that when we are stressed
(02:26):
we're not digesting properly orwe're having ill effects of
chronic disease that interferewith whatever therapy or
treatment we're having.
So it occurred to me that Ineeded to address that level
first.
So I was running I called themanxiety awareness workshops.
They're like our fortnight yogaclasses, if you like, but they
weren't yoga, they were all thebreathing exercises we learned
(02:47):
in clinic and the ideas of allthe movements that we needed to
do to calm that nervous system.
And we just got together.
It was only for my clients andwe just all got together as a
group.
It was women and we practicedthese treatments that we learned
through clinic and it wasreally powerful and I found that
we're doing them everyfortnight and I thought to
(03:08):
myself why are we doing theseonly to women who identify as
having a disorder?
Why can't we do this to justthe average person who doesn't
have a stress disorder?
Yeah, so I started thinkingabout well, what can I do to
have people, just normal JoeBlows, come along and join us on
(03:30):
as a preventative to having astress disorder?
So hence came the retreats andstarted working on all kinds of
retreats to support they'rewomen only retreats.
So to support women in managingtheir stress, identifying their
assets, if you like, andclearing the mind from that
internal chatter to be able toclearly see the pathway they
(03:54):
want to take.
Sonya (03:55):
Yeah, amazing, and I love a couple of things that you
said in there and I'm going todeep dive into a couple of those
things in a second.
But one of the things was thatyou had this realization that,
rather than treating the illness, it was like let's get
preemptive about this, let's getahead of the curve here and,
before they actually do startthat, start these great habits
(04:16):
and practices.
So I thought that was reallyreally cool.
One of the questions that I hadfor you was you mentioned that
you were seeing clients thatwere eating the same diet as you
, if not better, yet they weredisplaying still displaying
symptoms of stress and anxiety.
What would some of thosesymptoms be that you were seeing
?
Despina (04:34):
The usual symptoms we get are the digestive issues.
Yeah, we get the bloatedness oryou know that's a clue to me
that something's going on withdigestion and we know that
there's that brain gutconnection very clearly now.
And we know that our nervoussystem affects our gut and we
know that there's so manysymptoms.
You know 80% of our serotoninlives in the gut, so it's you
know, I started to see all thosedigestive systems disturbances
(04:58):
straight up diarrhea,constipation, and then I started
looking at symptoms of thenervous system.
Like you know, people who wouldstartle very easily, and these
are the questions I needed toask, not something that was
volunteered to me.
So you know, if someone came tosee me for a simple gut issue,
or even if someone came to seeme for asthma, I would always
(05:21):
apply some sort of therapyaround stress.
You know, if you think ofasthma, for example, we don't
normally think it's obvious thatthere is a stress component,
because when we're stressedwe're not breathing properly,
when we're stressed we're notdigesting properly.
So, depending on what they'vecome to see me, the symptoms
around that, they're clues forme.
For you know what's going on interms of their nervous system
(05:44):
and, without a doubt, no matterwhat chronic condition we have,
if we're managing our stress,the chronic condition doesn't.
We don't perceive it as badly.
Yeah, we're much more relaxedabout it and much more accepting
of it.
We know that higher cortisolaggravates symptoms, so it's
just a better way of managingour condition, especially if
(06:06):
it's chronic.
Sonya (06:07):
Yeah, and what are the implications of not managing
those symptoms?
So you know, for somebody whois ticking the boxes when it
comes to nutrition and exerciseand getting to bed early, you
know the things that we seem totalk about all the time.
Those pillars that everybodyseems to know now are the things
that create healthy foundationsand good lifestyle.
(06:28):
But what are the long-termeffects of not addressing the
digestive issues, the breathing,and that's actually something I
want to talk to you a littlebit about in a second as well
what does tend to kind of playout long-term for people.
Despina (06:43):
Yeah, when we have a healthy response to stress, we
have that high cortisol and thenthe amount and adrenaline when
we need them and they turn offwhen we don't.
When we have something that'snot functioning as well, a
nervous system that's notfunctioning as well, you make
chronically higher levels ofcortisone and adrenaline and
(07:05):
they can contribute to all kindsof conditions.
It can contribute to thingslike depression or insomnia or
fatigue or reduced muscle mass.
It can lower your libido.
Immune system Every singlesystem is affected.
Sonya (07:21):
I feel like you're just rattling off all of the
perimenopause and menopausesymptoms here, which is really
interesting because there'sobviously this link.
When we talk aboutperimenopause and menopause
symptoms, I think it's alwaysreally key to remember that they
can also be the same symptomsthat show up for other
conditions, and we should neverjust assume that because you are
(07:42):
fatigued and you've got lowlibido and you're not sleeping
well, that, oh my gosh, thatmeans it's perimenopause.
We must always, always do acheck-in with a health
practitioner to ensure that weaddress anything underlying as
well at the same time,absolutely, and we know that
there's a link.
Despina (07:58):
You know, progesterone is very protective in the way we
we handle stress.
So we know that our boundariesare, you know, a little bit
loose and it's sometimesdifficult to manage stress at
this time.
So, in particular around this40-plus age group, we need to
look at how we are managingstress.
We don't really think about itunless we have some sort of
disorder, which is why, you know, I did those retreats to make
(08:19):
us start thinking about, well,how do we manage stress?
What are our personal skills ofdoing that which we don't have
an opportunity to do so often?
So, yeah, it's.
I have found, when I treatwomen 40 plus, that this is
hugely beneficial.
Again, it's not just abouttreating the condition, but also
those underlying.
We know, with hot flushes, thatwhen we're stressed we're so
(08:42):
much more vulnerable to it.
So it's, yeah, getting to thatunderlying trigger, if you like.
Sonya (08:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Fascinating.
One of the things I wanted totouch on you mentioned there was
we were talking about asthmabut breathing.
And I was listening to a podcastrecently and they were talking
about the benefits to yourimmune system and your overall
health of looking at how youbreathe and changing that.
(09:10):
Now a I'm gonna like totallyhash this up, so I'm gonna rely
on you to put all the rightwords and phrases into place
here.
But there is a lot of researchthat's been done isn't there on
how we breathe and how thatimpacts many aspects of our
wellness.
Despina (09:26):
Yeah, breath is so important we don't realize how
22,000 breaths a day that we do.
So, if we get it, if we'rebreathing incorrectly I hate to
use the word incorrectly, butjust differently it has a
profound effect on your body.
So we breathe in oxygen,breathe out carbon dioxide.
So it's those two gases we'retalking about.
And if we know that when we'rehaving stress and anxiety or if
(09:50):
you're having a panic attack,one of the treatments is to put
a brown paper bag over yourmouth, so the carbon dioxide
that you're breathing out you'rebreathing back in again,
because it's the carbon dioxidethat we're lacking in these
stress disorders, because we'rehyperventilating, Managing
breath in such a way that we canbalance that oxygen and carbon
dioxide.
It's bad patterns, basically,that we've put ourselves into.
(10:13):
We're just bad breathing habitsfrom holding on.
Sonya (10:17):
Holding our breath and also breathing from the chest as
opposed to those beautiful bigbelly breaths.
Despina (10:24):
Well, yeah, and we've got to be careful how we use
language.
We don't want big breaths.
Yeah, and you know it's normalbreathing.
You know having that well whatis a normal breath?
You know a six-second breathwould be ideal, but in this day
and age we very rarely get that.
When we breathe in, we triggerthat fight or flight response.
When we breathe out, we triggerthat rest and digest the other
(10:48):
part of the nervous system.
So having longer elongated outbreaths is beneficial.
But for that to happen we doneed to drop the breath, that
diaphragmatic breath, to havethat length of time for the
breath.
And that's just takes training.
That's all it does.
It takes training and it's notsomething you have to put time
aside for, it's something youjust practice during the day.
How we can have just that kindof breathing cycle as you work,
(11:08):
as you do things, just to resetthat norm and to rebalance those
oxygen and carbon dioxidelevels.
Something we do I've trained inand do in clinic as well is
working on that breath.
It has a profound effect.
You know, if we we can't notaddress stress without address
breathing Full stop, yeah, yeah,it's fascinating.
Sonya (11:30):
I find it fascinating because I feel like it's
something that's not talkedabout enough and my background
is as a personal trainer and theonly times really that we
talked about breathing, you know, back when I trained 15 years
ago, was the difference betweenbeing huffy, puffy and being
unable to hold a conversationand that being an indication of
where your heart rate was at andhow hard you were working right
(11:51):
.
But that is, you know,obviously, bringing you into
that chest breathing and that,yes, you know short, shallow
breaths, and I did.
I do remember doing a workshopwhich is probably why I used the
language of those beautiful bigbelly breaths, but where, you
know, we were taught how toteach people when we were doing,
say, cool downs and things likethat, to do belly breathing,
(12:13):
and it amazed me how manyclients I ended up having that
couldn't do belly breathingDiaphragmatic, yeah, and and
that is that is obviously, forwhatever reason, become
something that we have to learnhow to do.
Despina (12:28):
Absolutely.
We live in fight or flight alot of the days, and fight or
flight, you know, we have twoparts of the nervous system the
fight or flight and the rest anddigest.
When we are in fight or flight,smooth muscle contracts so our
diaphragm as well becomes tight,so we can't do that
diaphragmatic breath that easily.
And if we're huffing andpuffing and exercise and there's
(12:48):
nothing wrong with being infight or flight when we're in
exercise mode we need it.
Yeah, it's actually good for us.
Yeah, 100%.
But it's managing to be able to, like you say, get your clients
back into that rest, calm statebefore they leave the gym, you
know, and that's the mostbeneficial for healing as well.
So after a session.
So it's having that tonifiednervous system that can do that
(13:13):
without getting too technical.
Sonya (13:15):
Yep, no, and I think that's it's so important when
we're talking to or about, youknow, this phase of life or age
that you know my audience is.
We're talking aboutperimenopause and menopause, so
we are definitely talking aboutthat, predominantly 40 plus, and
it's really interesting becausethat, you know, we talk so much
now, which is great.
We've raised so much awarenessabout increasing protein, doing
(13:38):
strength training, you know,understanding whether HRT is
something that you choose to useor not, or what the
alternatives are to that, but Ifeel like we're not talking
enough about the work that youdo.
Despina (13:51):
Yeah, and so many things are associated with this
age group as well.
We've got that whole shame orthe stigma that's attached, and
all the feelings ofworthlessness that just amplify
the symptoms as well, so thatall triggers that stress
response, and it's something wedo need to unpack and find our
worthiness within this stage oflife as well.
I feel like we've got we'vestill got a long way to go when
(14:14):
it comes to looking at beauty atthis age group.
Yeah, you know we praise awoman for looking young all the
time, but we don't think aboutwhat effect that has on the
psych as a social culture.
You know what does that mean?
Sonya (14:29):
I had a really interesting conversation with a
good friend of mine over theChristmas break.
We caught up with them and wewere at their place for dinner.
She is late 30s, about to turn40, and very, I would say,
driven by society's beautyideals and does not use social
media at all, which is, I think,quite unusual for that, yeah,
(14:50):
very unusual yeah something thatis.
Neither her nor her husband areengaged in social media at all,
don't even have accounts, and soI was actually showing her
something on my Instagramaccount because I was talking
about a particular company, andI was like, oh look, let me show
you some photos.
And we're on my Instagramaccount and a picture came up of
, while I was scrolling throughmy feed, of Pamela Anderson, who
, as most people know, now hastotally embraced going makeup
(15:13):
free and you know she's let herhair grow out and she's I didn't
know that actually, it's really, it's incredible.
She yeah, she never wears makeup, so it doesn't matter whether
she's on the red carpet or ifyou see her at the shops.
She's makeup free.
And she's really very vocal andraising a lot of awareness
about why she chose to let herhair grow gray and stop wearing
(15:35):
makeup.
And if you think of PamelaAnderson back in the Baywatch-
days and you know reallypersonified that, you know,
overblown perception of whatbeauty was, yeah, and a very
unnatural, I suppose, perceptionAnyway.
So this photo of PamelaAnderson came up and my friend
made a comment and she went lookat her, she looks awful, I've
(15:55):
heard that she's gone allnatural.
What a shame she was such abeautiful woman.
And I had to bite my tonguebecause we were in an
environment where we were havingthis lovely family catch up.
I was like I'm not going to geton my high horse about this
right now.
It's not the right time andplace, but it was really
fascinating to me that that washer reaction.
Despina (16:12):
And that's not through social media, like you said.
That's just our society, theculture within our society.
Yeah, that's interesting.
It doesn't surprise me though.
Yeah, no, it's just.
Yeah, we need a revolution,don't we?
We just need you know to makeit cool.
Sonya (16:35):
And it goes to show you as well how far that revolution
needs to reach, because thereare people out there that are
not on social media.
Despina (16:39):
It is about coming back to who you are, isn't it?
It's?
It's about, like, well, who amI?
If I took away my looks, if Itook away the title of my job,
you know everything about me,who am I, and you know this is
what.
I work a lot on the retreats aswell.
It's who am I?
Where do we come from and let'sstart there and what are my
assets as a person?
Not my titles and how I presentmyself to the world.
(17:00):
It's a fascinating journey togo down.
Sonya (17:10):
It is, but it's really important and I think it's
something we need to talk abouta whole lot more, which brings
us to talking about yourretreats.
Which was how you and Iconnected was over an interest
in what you were doing, and youdo have a retreat coming up
locally in early 2025.
So, but before we jump intotalking about that specific
retreat, talk to me about howyou evolved from your workshops
and your in-clinic sessions toyour retreats, which are global
as well as local.
Despina (17:32):
Yeah, clinic is kind of I do for half the week.
The other half of the week Ilecture at university, so
Torrens University and WesternSydney University so and I've
also got a qualification incounselling.
So it was kind of bringing theeducation component, the
counselling component and theclinical component together.
And I was at a stage in my lifewhere I don't want to be
(17:55):
working so hard and I don't wantto be just saying I want to
practise more.
I don't want to say the masses,but I want to practise, you
know, one to 20, yeah, and Ireally like the workshops that I
was doing earlier with theanxiety awareness.
But I wanted to practice, youknow, one to 20, yeah, and I
really liked the workshops thatI was doing earlier with the
anxiety awareness.
But I wanted to make it againwomen only.
There's something that we needthat women together is so unique
(18:15):
and special and very empowering.
So it's still women only.
And I thought what could I do?
And I've got a Greek backgroundand I thought why don't I run
retreats?
And to run retreats you reallyhave to immerse yourself in the
experience.
So I thought let's do aweek-long retreat and let's do
it in the Greek islands and justremove people away from their
(18:37):
homes and their attachments.
And I just gave it a go acouple of years ago and it was
just phenomenal, just phenomenaland I thought I could do this
for a living.
It was a trial run a few yearsago, so I mainly do them
overseas, but I'm now startingto do them at home as well.
Yeah, so that was kind of thejourney to there.
Sonya (19:00):
Was that a local audience that you like was that?
Despina (19:03):
Australians that travelled to Greece for your no.
No, it was.
I had someone on the case formarketing.
They purely marketed to, funnyenough, the UK, switzerland and
I think France were the main.
But yeah, I had people fromAmerica.
I don't even know how they gotthere, it doesn't matter, they
(19:24):
got there.
There was an Australian, butthey lived in the uk.
Um yeah, australia's a verysmall market so it's harder to
market these things to them yeah, and greece is a long way to
fly for yes, and it becomes avery expensive trip, you know,
if you're adding all theseextras to it.
Yeah, so that's my's, my yeah,that's where I mainly go, but
(19:47):
again, it's for me it's justmuch more meaningful job and
combines all the things I dowell, you know, in one place.
So it's, and I do have peoplecome with me.
I've got other practitioners,especially because I like to do
retreats based around conditionsas well.
Like you know, the one I've gotcoming up is around
post-menopause, peri-imposed.
(20:08):
You know, I like the idea ofdoing them for autoimmune
conditions and you know where wecan just come together and talk
holistically about, um, thecondition, yeah, and there must
be something really powerful forhaving people in the room,
women in the room, that are allliving a similar story.
Sonya (20:24):
Yeah, being able to hear firsthand, face-to-face, that
eye contact.
You know there's some amazingFacebook communities out there
now for a lot of people to getsupport around different areas,
but to actually sit in the sameroom with someone who is living
the same story as you is soincredibly powerful, so I can
really see the positives ofholding those with you know
(20:46):
certain themes, I guess, in mind.
So then tell us about yourHunter Valley, New South
Wales-based retreat that iscoming up in March 2025.
Despina (20:58):
So this retreat is a weekender, so it's the Friday to
the Sunday and it sounds likewe've got lots jam-packed but
there's plenty of free time aswell, because I really feel like
in a retreat some of the magichappens in between our sessions
when people just sit, chat andconnect, like you were saying
earlier.
It's quite amazing to havepeople with similar conditions
(21:18):
all in the one room.
A couple of things happen.
You kind of get heard, you makeconnections and you just feel
like you know your cup's fullconnections and you just feel
like you know your cup's full.
So this one is it's not, youknow, we call it the aging well
retreat, because I didn'tnecessarily want to put the word
menopause or perimenopause,because lots of things happen
post-40.
Yeah, so it's, and I do want toaddress that whole stress
(21:42):
component.
So you know, on the Friday,once we get there, do you want
me to just take you through?
Yeah, absolutely Okay, excuseme, what we do.
So the Friday we get there andwe do talk about, you know, 40
plus perimenopause, menopause,what the picture looks like.
We touch on a bit of biologyand we might answer, you know, a
couple of personalizedquestions.
It's myself, as well as anotherclinician who specializes in
(22:06):
menopause Great.
So it's not just about you know, professionals providing advice
.
It's also an opportunity forwomen to talk about their
experiences what worked, whatdidn't work, and being heard.
Like I said, so much of women'sexperiences is about not being
heard, yeah, so this just kindof opens up with that kind of
(22:27):
platform to be heard, and it'spurposely a small group retreat,
so it's 10 rooms only that youknow, and everyone gets the
attention they need.
So then we have dinner and thenwe have what's called
philosophy circle One of my mostfavorite, and this only goes on
for an hour, about an hour, butthe workshops run for about an
hour and a half and thephilosophy circle is purely that
(22:49):
we just sit around in a circleand we talk about.
Well, the topic normally is whatdoes femininity mean to you?
That's the topic normally inthese kind of retreats and
everyone has a differentperception of what that's like
for them.
And it's beautiful to sit andlisten to each of us talk about
femininity because obviously yousit there I always sit there
(23:11):
and go wow, I never thought ofit like that and you just grasp
little things that shift yourperspective on what it is to
well, to be female, I was goingto say which is different to
femininity.
So you just shift yourperspective and you broaden your
perspective in this area.
So, and I always believe, evenif you have a small five degree
(23:31):
shift in perspective, that makesa massive difference in years
to come.
So you know, this is where Ithink we don't realize the
subconscious magic that happensin these kind of philosophy
circles.
Sonya (23:42):
I'm amazed you can keep it to an hour.
Despina (23:45):
Yeah, we do try to manage it.
We just try and get one personto speak at a time and that's it
, and not have a conversationright it's just going around and
you know, know what do theycall those?
A talking stick.
We don't have a talking stick,but it's like that.
No, but it's like that.
Yeah, but you know, women cantake that conversation on later
on.
(24:05):
And then day two, you know wedo a lot of the work.
We've got the self-discoverysession first up and and that's
where I come in and we reallytalk about the biology of stress
.
We talk about hormoneregulation around stress and we
implement some beautifulmanagement strategies.
So we really experience.
We do a lot of breath work,meditations and empowering
meditations, so that's that.
(24:26):
Then we have lunch and we'vegot a chef there who does lots
of yummy food and functionalfood, you know, not just
nutritious but functional.
So we look at all the differenttypes of food.
So, yeah, we do talk about diet, because there's so many
different diets.
Which one is good for you?
Do we go keto?
Do we go anti-inflammatory?
Do we go oxalate?
Do we go antihistamine?
(24:48):
You know there's so manydifferent diets and we really
bring to our attention thateveryone's so individual and
what works for you may not workfor others.
So, yeah, let's talk aboutdiets and we do have this kind
of question time where peoplecan just throw those questions
at us and what we hope is thatyou leave with your own
(25:09):
personalised okay.
This is going to be what I'mgoing to comfortably practice,
you know, in my lifestylechanges.
So you know everyone's going tobe very individual to that.
We've got worksheets thatpeople will be jotting things
down as you go.
So that's that session and onthe final day we just come back
together and we just kind ofpull it all together.
We do a nice meditation,exercise is discussed, different
(25:32):
types of exercise regimes arediscussed, and you know there's
a lot going on.
So we just unpack howeveryone's feeling at the time
before we go and we've got thisbeautiful lounge area, pool,
outdoor area that people canjust sit around and just be
heard, build meaningfulconnections.
Sonya (25:50):
Sounds absolutely wonderful.
Despina (25:52):
Doesn't it.
Sonya (25:53):
Yeah, it really does.
I like them.
Go see if I can book myself in.
Despina (25:59):
We also talk about supplements, which is something
I forgot to mention because Ithink that's super important.
There are some supplements thatare very powerful for us to
take, but for some it doesn'tsuit, you know, and someone says
, oh, I've tried magnesium, itdoes nothing.
Does nothing.
Well, did you try this type ofmagnesium?
Did you type you know this typeof protein, or are we?
(26:19):
Yeah, it's just, and I reallylike to knock out some, even
brands, like I wouldn't evenpurchase half the brands at
health food shops, you knowthey're.
So there's some education thatis needed around that.
But we're not advocating foranything, you know.
It's just very, very personal.
It's information, and then youchoose what you do with the
information when you take ithome with you.
Sonya (26:40):
Fantastic, sounds amazing .
So you have very generouslymade available to listeners of
Dear Menopause a 20% discountand that discount is available
until the 15th of February.
So to find that discount codeyou can jump into the show notes
or you can, if you've got agood memory and you've got a pen
and paper nearby, you can jotdown.
It's Sonia, s-o-n-y-a, all incaps, 20 at the end, 2-0.
(27:04):
So Sonia, 2-0, all in caps, andthat will get you a 20%
discount on this amazingsounding retreat.
But that is only availableuntil the 15th of February.
So the other and the link willalso be in the show notes for
you to be able to actually gothrough and read more about the
retreats and make a booking ifthat's what you want to do.
But you've also got for anybodythat's listening that's not in
(27:27):
Australia and I do have a veryglobal audience.
I did notice that you do have acouple of dates added in for a
UK and a Greece retreat thisyear as well.
Is that right?
Despina (27:37):
I do.
You're going to get me to go tomy website now because I've got
all those dates there that Iwant to talk about.
I didn't expect you to jumphere, but yes, we have, that's
all right.
So I'm in Europe August,september, so I've aligned with
two.
I'm going to do two retreatsover there, one in the UK,
that's again a weekender andthat's a bit more fun.
You know, not all my retreatsare serious, so that's a bit
(27:58):
more fun.
We go to Bristol and we do, youknow, the Thermae Bath Spa over
there.
But we also, almost everyretreat has that stress
component that I talk.
I don't call it stress, youknow, just self-discovery is
what I call it, thatself-discovery component.
And we do yoga, meditation.
(28:21):
But our signature retreat,which is my most favorite
retreat, is a week-long retreat.
It's on the Greek island, crete.
We all come together in abeautiful resort and it's us
only.
We sleep together, we eattogether and we practice
together and it's calledunderstanding self and it really
goes into, uh, separating selffrom mind and just an inward
discovery.
Yeah, and that's in september,in in crete, delicious and what
(28:46):
a beautiful time of year as well.
Sonya (28:48):
I'm actually um going to be in europe in september nice
and'm looking at the date.
I did have a peek on yourwebsite, which is how I knew.
And I was like that timesbeautifully when I'm planning to
meet my husband in Italy.
I was like maybe I couldsqueeze that in Before arriving.
Despina (29:05):
I don't know if it's a good idea.
Oh, actually, it could be agood idea afterwards, but I
think probably before looking atthe dates, but yeah.
Sonya (29:13):
So how wonderful though.
A week in Greece, on your ownIsland or your own resort within
the Island, and just doing allthat inward work.
How amazing.
Despina (29:23):
Yeah, and the great thing is, what I found so good
is we get people from all overthe world and this one's very
small one this is, I think we'vegot the maximum 14 people that
can fit, but it's people fromall over the world and when you
look at the people, you thinkthey would never be friends.
When I first start a retreat, Iget a bit panicky and I think,
oh my God, how are we all goingto get on, you know?
But the connections that aremade, I think this is just
(29:45):
blissful.
This is when you just reallytake down the layers and just
connect with people, with whothey are, and I just think it
makes a beautiful impact on yourlife to be able to go home
feeling like, you know, I'm astep closer to where I want to
be.
Yeah, we never get there, butalways great to be a step closer
.
It's a life's work.
Sonya (30:05):
Yeah, yeah, life's work Absolutely.
There is no such thing asperfection.
Despina, I have loved chattingwith you today.
I'm really grateful to haveconnected with you.
It was you that reached out tome, which I'm so grateful for.
Thank you for doing that.
I'm really pleased to have beenable to bring this conversation
to my listeners.
Thank you so much, sonia.
Welcome to the Dear Menopause podcast.
I'm Sonya Lovell, your host Now.
I've been bringing youconversations with amazing
menopause experts for over twoyears now.
If you have missed any of thoseconversations, now's the time
to go back and listen, and youcan always share them with
anyone you think needs to hearthem.
This way, more people can findthese amazing conversations,
(00:25):
needs to hear them.
This way, more people can findthese amazing conversations.
Hi everyone, I am very excitedtoday to bring you a guest who
is coming to us with a littlebit of a different angle to what
we often talk about on here.
I'm going to introduce you toDespina Kamper.
Now.
Despina combined her passionsfor health, mental health and
education and developed theaward-winning Self Discovery Lab
(00:47):
, and this is a place thatsupports women in dealing with
their emotional challenges ofthis crazy society that we live
in today.
Despina, welcome to DearMenopause.
Despina (00:57):
Thank you so much, sonya, and it was really nice to
hear award-winning.
I'd forgotten that we won thataward a few years ago and you
just reminded me, so thank you.
Own those awards.
Sonya (01:09):
Yeah, absolutely Awesome.
Okay.
So I gave a really brief intro.
Very, very scratched thesurface as to who you are and
what you do.
Why don't you share witheveryone that's listening who
you are?
Despina (01:21):
and what you do, sure, so, as you've said, I'm Despina
and I'm a naturopath andnutritionist, but my focus is
mainly around stress disordersand anxiety disorders.
So I've been in clinicalpractice for about you lose the
years, don't you?
At least 25 years anyway and Istumbled upon this area.
(01:42):
I work very closely withpsychologists and I look at diet
, lifestyle.
I've also got a qualificationin counselling and how we can
support people through.
I like to call them stressdisorders rather than anxiety
disorders, because we don't allfall in that picture.
So I had a clinic in the easternsuburbs.
I saw a lot of women who wereeating the right diets, all on
(02:04):
organic foods, a diet that wasso much better than mine.
Yet symptoms were still there,all kinds of symptoms that they
were coming to see me with.
So it really occurred to methat, yes, diet is important,
but what I found more importantwas managing their stress.
Managing their stress and weknow that when we are stressed
(02:26):
we're not digesting properly orwe're having ill effects of
chronic disease that interferewith whatever therapy or
treatment we're having.
So it occurred to me that Ineeded to address that level
first.
So I was running I called themanxiety awareness workshops.
They're like our fortnight yogaclasses, if you like, but they
weren't yoga, they were all thebreathing exercises we learned
(02:47):
in clinic and the ideas of allthe movements that we needed to
do to calm that nervous system.
And we just got together.
It was only for my clients andwe just all got together as a
group.
It was women and we practicedthese treatments that we learned
through clinic and it wasreally powerful and I found that
we're doing them everyfortnight and I thought to
(03:08):
myself why are we doing theseonly to women who identify as
having a disorder?
Why can't we do this to justthe average person who doesn't
have a stress disorder?
Yeah, so I started thinkingabout well, what can I do to
have people, just normal JoeBlows, come along and join us on
(03:30):
as a preventative to having astress disorder?
So hence came the retreats andstarted working on all kinds of
retreats to support they'rewomen only retreats.
So to support women in managingtheir stress, identifying their
assets, if you like, andclearing the mind from that
internal chatter to be able toclearly see the pathway they
(03:54):
want to take.
Sonya (03:55):
Yeah, amazing, and I love a couple of things that you
said in there and I'm going todeep dive into a couple of those
things in a second.
But one of the things was thatyou had this realization that,
rather than treating the illness, it was like let's get
preemptive about this, let's getahead of the curve here and,
before they actually do startthat, start these great habits
(04:16):
and practices.
So I thought that was reallyreally cool.
One of the questions that I hadfor you was you mentioned that
you were seeing clients thatwere eating the same diet as you
, if not better, yet they weredisplaying still displaying
symptoms of stress and anxiety.
What would some of thosesymptoms be that you were seeing
?
Despina (04:34):
The usual symptoms we get are the digestive issues.
Yeah, we get the bloatedness oryou know that's a clue to me
that something's going on withdigestion and we know that
there's that brain gutconnection very clearly now.
And we know that our nervoussystem affects our gut and we
know that there's so manysymptoms.
You know 80% of our serotoninlives in the gut, so it's you
know, I started to see all thosedigestive systems disturbances
(04:58):
straight up diarrhea,constipation, and then I started
looking at symptoms of thenervous system.
Like you know, people who wouldstartle very easily, and these
are the questions I needed toask, not something that was
volunteered to me.
So you know, if someone came tosee me for a simple gut issue,
or even if someone came to seeme for asthma, I would always
(05:21):
apply some sort of therapyaround stress.
You know, if you think ofasthma, for example, we don't
normally think it's obvious thatthere is a stress component,
because when we're stressedwe're not breathing properly,
when we're stressed we're notdigesting properly.
So, depending on what they'vecome to see me, the symptoms
around that, they're clues forme.
For you know what's going on interms of their nervous system
(05:44):
and, without a doubt, no matterwhat chronic condition we have,
if we're managing our stress,the chronic condition doesn't.
We don't perceive it as badly.
Yeah, we're much more relaxedabout it and much more accepting
of it.
We know that higher cortisolaggravates symptoms, so it's
just a better way of managingour condition, especially if
(06:06):
it's chronic.
Sonya (06:07):
Yeah, and what are the implications of not managing
those symptoms?
So you know, for somebody whois ticking the boxes when it
comes to nutrition and exerciseand getting to bed early, you
know the things that we seem totalk about all the time.
Those pillars that everybodyseems to know now are the things
that create healthy foundationsand good lifestyle.
(06:28):
But what are the long-termeffects of not addressing the
digestive issues, the breathing,and that's actually something I
want to talk to you a littlebit about in a second as well
what does tend to kind of playout long-term for people.
Despina (06:43):
Yeah, when we have a healthy response to stress, we
have that high cortisol and thenthe amount and adrenaline when
we need them and they turn offwhen we don't.
When we have something that'snot functioning as well, a
nervous system that's notfunctioning as well, you make
chronically higher levels ofcortisone and adrenaline and
(07:05):
they can contribute to all kindsof conditions.
It can contribute to thingslike depression or insomnia or
fatigue or reduced muscle mass.
It can lower your libido.
Immune system Every singlesystem is affected.
Sonya (07:21):
I feel like you're just rattling off all of the
perimenopause and menopausesymptoms here, which is really
interesting because there'sobviously this link.
When we talk aboutperimenopause and menopause
symptoms, I think it's alwaysreally key to remember that they
can also be the same symptomsthat show up for other
conditions, and we should neverjust assume that because you are
(07:42):
fatigued and you've got lowlibido and you're not sleeping
well, that, oh my gosh, thatmeans it's perimenopause.
We must always, always do acheck-in with a health
practitioner to ensure that weaddress anything underlying as
well at the same time,absolutely, and we know that
there's a link.
Despina (07:58):
You know, progesterone is very protective in the way we
we handle stress.
So we know that our boundariesare, you know, a little bit
loose and it's sometimesdifficult to manage stress at
this time.
So, in particular around this40-plus age group, we need to
look at how we are managingstress.
We don't really think about itunless we have some sort of
disorder, which is why, you know, I did those retreats to make
(08:19):
us start thinking about, well,how do we manage stress?
What are our personal skills ofdoing that which we don't have
an opportunity to do so often?
So, yeah, it's.
I have found, when I treatwomen 40 plus, that this is
hugely beneficial.
Again, it's not just abouttreating the condition, but also
those underlying.
We know, with hot flushes, thatwhen we're stressed we're so
(08:42):
much more vulnerable to it.
So it's, yeah, getting to thatunderlying trigger, if you like.
Sonya (08:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Fascinating.
One of the things I wanted totouch on you mentioned there was
we were talking about asthmabut breathing.
And I was listening to a podcastrecently and they were talking
about the benefits to yourimmune system and your overall
health of looking at how youbreathe and changing that.
(09:10):
Now a I'm gonna like totallyhash this up, so I'm gonna rely
on you to put all the rightwords and phrases into place
here.
But there is a lot of researchthat's been done isn't there on
how we breathe and how thatimpacts many aspects of our
wellness.
Despina (09:26):
Yeah, breath is so important we don't realize how
22,000 breaths a day that we do.
So, if we get it, if we'rebreathing incorrectly I hate to
use the word incorrectly, butjust differently it has a
profound effect on your body.
So we breathe in oxygen,breathe out carbon dioxide.
So it's those two gases we'retalking about.
And if we know that when we'rehaving stress and anxiety or if
(09:50):
you're having a panic attack,one of the treatments is to put
a brown paper bag over yourmouth, so the carbon dioxide
that you're breathing out you'rebreathing back in again,
because it's the carbon dioxidethat we're lacking in these
stress disorders, because we'rehyperventilating, Managing
breath in such a way that we canbalance that oxygen and carbon
dioxide.
It's bad patterns, basically,that we've put ourselves into.
(10:13):
We're just bad breathing habitsfrom holding on.
Sonya (10:17):
Holding our breath and also breathing from the chest as
opposed to those beautiful bigbelly breaths.
Despina (10:24):
Well, yeah, and we've got to be careful how we use
language.
We don't want big breaths.
Yeah, and you know it's normalbreathing.
You know having that well whatis a normal breath?
You know a six-second breathwould be ideal, but in this day
and age we very rarely get that.
When we breathe in, we triggerthat fight or flight response.
When we breathe out, we triggerthat rest and digest the other
(10:48):
part of the nervous system.
So having longer elongated outbreaths is beneficial.
But for that to happen we doneed to drop the breath, that
diaphragmatic breath, to havethat length of time for the
breath.
And that's just takes training.
That's all it does.
It takes training and it's notsomething you have to put time
aside for, it's something youjust practice during the day.
How we can have just that kindof breathing cycle as you work,
(11:08):
as you do things, just to resetthat norm and to rebalance those
oxygen and carbon dioxidelevels.
Something we do I've trained inand do in clinic as well is
working on that breath.
It has a profound effect.
You know, if we we can't notaddress stress without address
breathing Full stop, yeah, yeah,it's fascinating.
Sonya (11:30):
I find it fascinating because I feel like it's
something that's not talkedabout enough and my background
is as a personal trainer and theonly times really that we
talked about breathing, you know, back when I trained 15 years
ago, was the difference betweenbeing huffy, puffy and being
unable to hold a conversationand that being an indication of
where your heart rate was at andhow hard you were working right
(11:51):
.
But that is, you know,obviously, bringing you into
that chest breathing and that,yes, you know short, shallow
breaths, and I did.
I do remember doing a workshopwhich is probably why I used the
language of those beautiful bigbelly breaths, but where, you
know, we were taught how toteach people when we were doing,
say, cool downs and things likethat, to do belly breathing,
(12:13):
and it amazed me how manyclients I ended up having that
couldn't do belly breathingDiaphragmatic, yeah, and and
that is that is obviously, forwhatever reason, become
something that we have to learnhow to do.
Despina (12:28):
Absolutely.
We live in fight or flight alot of the days, and fight or
flight, you know, we have twoparts of the nervous system the
fight or flight and the rest anddigest.
When we are in fight or flight,smooth muscle contracts so our
diaphragm as well becomes tight,so we can't do that
diaphragmatic breath that easily.
And if we're huffing andpuffing and exercise and there's
(12:48):
nothing wrong with being infight or flight when we're in
exercise mode we need it.
Yeah, it's actually good for us.
Yeah, 100%.
But it's managing to be able to, like you say, get your clients
back into that rest, calm statebefore they leave the gym, you
know, and that's the mostbeneficial for healing as well.
So after a session.
So it's having that tonifiednervous system that can do that
(13:13):
without getting too technical.
Sonya (13:15):
Yep, no, and I think that's it's so important when
we're talking to or about, youknow, this phase of life or age
that you know my audience is.
We're talking aboutperimenopause and menopause, so
we are definitely talking aboutthat, predominantly 40 plus, and
it's really interesting becausethat, you know, we talk so much
now, which is great.
We've raised so much awarenessabout increasing protein, doing
(13:38):
strength training, you know,understanding whether HRT is
something that you choose to useor not, or what the
alternatives are to that, but Ifeel like we're not talking
enough about the work that youdo.
Despina (13:51):
Yeah, and so many things are associated with this
age group as well.
We've got that whole shame orthe stigma that's attached, and
all the feelings ofworthlessness that just amplify
the symptoms as well, so thatall triggers that stress
response, and it's something wedo need to unpack and find our
worthiness within this stage oflife as well.
I feel like we've got we'vestill got a long way to go when
(14:14):
it comes to looking at beauty atthis age group.
Yeah, you know we praise awoman for looking young all the
time, but we don't think aboutwhat effect that has on the
psych as a social culture.
You know what does that mean?
Sonya (14:29):
I had a really interesting conversation with a
good friend of mine over theChristmas break.
We caught up with them and wewere at their place for dinner.
She is late 30s, about to turn40, and very, I would say,
driven by society's beautyideals and does not use social
media at all, which is, I think,quite unusual for that, yeah,
(14:50):
very unusual yeah something thatis.
Neither her nor her husband areengaged in social media at all,
don't even have accounts, and soI was actually showing her
something on my Instagramaccount because I was talking
about a particular company, andI was like, oh look, let me show
you some photos.
And we're on my Instagramaccount and a picture came up of
, while I was scrolling throughmy feed, of Pamela Anderson, who
, as most people know, now hastotally embraced going makeup
(15:13):
free and you know she's let herhair grow out and she's I didn't
know that actually, it's really, it's incredible.
She yeah, she never wears makeup, so it doesn't matter whether
she's on the red carpet or ifyou see her at the shops.
She's makeup free.
And she's really very vocal andraising a lot of awareness
about why she chose to let herhair grow gray and stop wearing
(15:35):
makeup.
And if you think of PamelaAnderson back in the Baywatch-
days and you know reallypersonified that, you know,
overblown perception of whatbeauty was, yeah, and a very
unnatural, I suppose, perceptionAnyway.
So this photo of PamelaAnderson came up and my friend
made a comment and she went lookat her, she looks awful, I've
(15:55):
heard that she's gone allnatural.
What a shame she was such abeautiful woman.
And I had to bite my tonguebecause we were in an
environment where we were havingthis lovely family catch up.
I was like I'm not going to geton my high horse about this
right now.
It's not the right time andplace, but it was really
fascinating to me that that washer reaction.
Despina (16:12):
And that's not through social media, like you said.
That's just our society, theculture within our society.
Yeah, that's interesting.
It doesn't surprise me though.
Yeah, no, it's just.
Yeah, we need a revolution,don't we?
We just need you know to makeit cool.
Sonya (16:35):
And it goes to show you as well how far that revolution
needs to reach, because thereare people out there that are
not on social media.
Despina (16:39):
It is about coming back to who you are, isn't it?
It's?
It's about, like, well, who amI?
If I took away my looks, if Itook away the title of my job,
you know everything about me,who am I, and you know this is
what.
I work a lot on the retreats aswell.
It's who am I?
Where do we come from and let'sstart there and what are my
assets as a person?
Not my titles and how I presentmyself to the world.
(17:00):
It's a fascinating journey togo down.
Sonya (17:10):
It is, but it's really important and I think it's
something we need to talk abouta whole lot more, which brings
us to talking about yourretreats.
Which was how you and Iconnected was over an interest
in what you were doing, and youdo have a retreat coming up
locally in early 2025.
So, but before we jump intotalking about that specific
retreat, talk to me about howyou evolved from your workshops
and your in-clinic sessions toyour retreats, which are global
as well as local.
Despina (17:32):
Yeah, clinic is kind of I do for half the week.
The other half of the week Ilecture at university, so
Torrens University and WesternSydney University so and I've
also got a qualification incounselling.
So it was kind of bringing theeducation component, the
counselling component and theclinical component together.
And I was at a stage in my lifewhere I don't want to be
(17:55):
working so hard and I don't wantto be just saying I want to
practise more.
I don't want to say the masses,but I want to practise, you
know, one to 20, yeah, and Ireally like the workshops that I
was doing earlier with theanxiety awareness.
But I wanted to practice, youknow, one to 20, yeah, and I
really liked the workshops thatI was doing earlier with the
anxiety awareness.
But I wanted to make it againwomen only.
There's something that we needthat women together is so unique
(18:15):
and special and very empowering.
So it's still women only.
And I thought what could I do?
And I've got a Greek backgroundand I thought why don't I run
retreats?
And to run retreats you reallyhave to immerse yourself in the
experience.
So I thought let's do aweek-long retreat and let's do
it in the Greek islands and justremove people away from their
(18:37):
homes and their attachments.
And I just gave it a go acouple of years ago and it was
just phenomenal, just phenomenaland I thought I could do this
for a living.
It was a trial run a few yearsago, so I mainly do them
overseas, but I'm now startingto do them at home as well.
Yeah, so that was kind of thejourney to there.
Sonya (19:00):
Was that a local audience that you like was that?
Despina (19:03):
Australians that travelled to Greece for your no.
No, it was.
I had someone on the case formarketing.
They purely marketed to, funnyenough, the UK, switzerland and
I think France were the main.
But yeah, I had people fromAmerica.
I don't even know how they gotthere, it doesn't matter, they
(19:24):
got there.
There was an Australian, butthey lived in the uk.
Um yeah, australia's a verysmall market so it's harder to
market these things to them yeah, and greece is a long way to
fly for yes, and it becomes avery expensive trip, you know,
if you're adding all theseextras to it.
Yeah, so that's my's, my yeah,that's where I mainly go, but
(19:47):
again, it's for me it's justmuch more meaningful job and
combines all the things I dowell, you know, in one place.
So it's, and I do have peoplecome with me.
I've got other practitioners,especially because I like to do
retreats based around conditionsas well.
Like you know, the one I've gotcoming up is around
post-menopause, peri-imposed.
(20:08):
You know, I like the idea ofdoing them for autoimmune
conditions and you know where wecan just come together and talk
holistically about, um, thecondition, yeah, and there must
be something really powerful forhaving people in the room,
women in the room, that are allliving a similar story.
Sonya (20:24):
Yeah, being able to hear firsthand, face-to-face, that
eye contact.
You know there's some amazingFacebook communities out there
now for a lot of people to getsupport around different areas,
but to actually sit in the sameroom with someone who is living
the same story as you is soincredibly powerful, so I can
really see the positives ofholding those with you know
(20:46):
certain themes, I guess, in mind.
So then tell us about yourHunter Valley, New South
Wales-based retreat that iscoming up in March 2025.
Despina (20:58):
So this retreat is a weekender, so it's the Friday to
the Sunday and it sounds likewe've got lots jam-packed but
there's plenty of free time aswell, because I really feel like
in a retreat some of the magichappens in between our sessions
when people just sit, chat andconnect, like you were saying
earlier.
It's quite amazing to havepeople with similar conditions
(21:18):
all in the one room.
A couple of things happen.
You kind of get heard, you makeconnections and you just feel
like you know your cup's fullconnections and you just feel
like you know your cup's full.
So this one is it's not, youknow, we call it the aging well
retreat, because I didn'tnecessarily want to put the word
menopause or perimenopause,because lots of things happen
post-40.
Yeah, so it's, and I do want toaddress that whole stress
(21:42):
component.
So you know, on the Friday,once we get there, do you want
me to just take you through?
Yeah, absolutely Okay, excuseme, what we do.
So the Friday we get there andwe do talk about, you know, 40
plus perimenopause, menopause,what the picture looks like.
We touch on a bit of biologyand we might answer, you know, a
couple of personalizedquestions.
It's myself, as well as anotherclinician who specializes in
(22:06):
menopause Great.
So it's not just about you know, professionals providing advice
.
It's also an opportunity forwomen to talk about their
experiences what worked, whatdidn't work, and being heard.
Like I said, so much of women'sexperiences is about not being
heard, yeah, so this just kindof opens up with that kind of
(22:27):
platform to be heard, and it'spurposely a small group retreat,
so it's 10 rooms only that youknow, and everyone gets the
attention they need.
So then we have dinner and thenwe have what's called
philosophy circle One of my mostfavorite, and this only goes on
for an hour, about an hour, butthe workshops run for about an
hour and a half and thephilosophy circle is purely that
(22:49):
we just sit around in a circleand we talk about.
Well, the topic normally is whatdoes femininity mean to you?
That's the topic normally inthese kind of retreats and
everyone has a differentperception of what that's like
for them.
And it's beautiful to sit andlisten to each of us talk about
femininity because obviously yousit there I always sit there
(23:11):
and go wow, I never thought ofit like that and you just grasp
little things that shift yourperspective on what it is to
well, to be female, I was goingto say which is different to
femininity.
So you just shift yourperspective and you broaden your
perspective in this area.
So, and I always believe, evenif you have a small five degree
(23:31):
shift in perspective, that makesa massive difference in years
to come.
So you know, this is where Ithink we don't realize the
subconscious magic that happensin these kind of philosophy
circles.
Sonya (23:42):
I'm amazed you can keep it to an hour.
Despina (23:45):
Yeah, we do try to manage it.
We just try and get one personto speak at a time and that's it
, and not have a conversationright it's just going around and
you know, know what do theycall those?
A talking stick.
We don't have a talking stick,but it's like that.
No, but it's like that.
Yeah, but you know, women cantake that conversation on later
on.
(24:05):
And then day two, you know wedo a lot of the work.
We've got the self-discoverysession first up and and that's
where I come in and we reallytalk about the biology of stress
.
We talk about hormoneregulation around stress and we
implement some beautifulmanagement strategies.
So we really experience.
We do a lot of breath work,meditations and empowering
meditations, so that's that.
(24:26):
Then we have lunch and we'vegot a chef there who does lots
of yummy food and functionalfood, you know, not just
nutritious but functional.
So we look at all the differenttypes of food.
So, yeah, we do talk about diet, because there's so many
different diets.
Which one is good for you?
Do we go keto?
Do we go anti-inflammatory?
Do we go oxalate?
Do we go antihistamine?
(24:48):
You know there's so manydifferent diets and we really
bring to our attention thateveryone's so individual and
what works for you may not workfor others.
So, yeah, let's talk aboutdiets and we do have this kind
of question time where peoplecan just throw those questions
at us and what we hope is thatyou leave with your own
(25:09):
personalised okay.
This is going to be what I'mgoing to comfortably practice,
you know, in my lifestylechanges.
So you know everyone's going tobe very individual to that.
We've got worksheets thatpeople will be jotting things
down as you go.
So that's that session and onthe final day we just come back
together and we just kind ofpull it all together.
We do a nice meditation,exercise is discussed, different
(25:32):
types of exercise regimes arediscussed, and you know there's
a lot going on.
So we just unpack howeveryone's feeling at the time
before we go and we've got thisbeautiful lounge area, pool,
outdoor area that people canjust sit around and just be
heard, build meaningfulconnections.
Sonya (25:50):
Sounds absolutely wonderful.
Despina (25:52):
Doesn't it.
Sonya (25:53):
Yeah, it really does.
I like them.
Go see if I can book myself in.
Despina (25:59):
We also talk about supplements, which is something
I forgot to mention because Ithink that's super important.
There are some supplements thatare very powerful for us to
take, but for some it doesn'tsuit, you know, and someone says
, oh, I've tried magnesium, itdoes nothing.
Does nothing.
Well, did you try this type ofmagnesium?
Did you type you know this typeof protein, or are we?
(26:19):
Yeah, it's just, and I reallylike to knock out some, even
brands, like I wouldn't evenpurchase half the brands at
health food shops, you knowthey're.
So there's some education thatis needed around that.
But we're not advocating foranything, you know.
It's just very, very personal.
It's information, and then youchoose what you do with the
information when you take ithome with you.
Sonya (26:40):
Fantastic, sounds amazing .
So you have very generouslymade available to listeners of
Dear Menopause a 20% discountand that discount is available
until the 15th of February.
So to find that discount codeyou can jump into the show notes
or you can, if you've got agood memory and you've got a pen
and paper nearby, you can jotdown.
It's Sonia, s-o-n-y-a, all incaps, 20 at the end, 2-0.
(27:04):
So Sonia, 2-0, all in caps, andthat will get you a 20%
discount on this amazingsounding retreat.
But that is only availableuntil the 15th of February.
So the other and the link willalso be in the show notes for
you to be able to actually gothrough and read more about the
retreats and make a booking ifthat's what you want to do.
But you've also got for anybodythat's listening that's not in
(27:27):
Australia and I do have a veryglobal audience.
I did notice that you do have acouple of dates added in for a
UK and a Greece retreat thisyear as well.
Is that right?
Despina (27:37):
I do.
You're going to get me to go tomy website now because I've got
all those dates there that Iwant to talk about.
I didn't expect you to jumphere, but yes, we have, that's
all right.
So I'm in Europe August,september, so I've aligned with
two.
I'm going to do two retreatsover there, one in the UK,
that's again a weekender andthat's a bit more fun.
You know, not all my retreatsare serious, so that's a bit
(27:58):
more fun.
We go to Bristol and we do, youknow, the Thermae Bath Spa over
there.
But we also, almost everyretreat has that stress
component that I talk.
I don't call it stress, youknow, just self-discovery is
what I call it, thatself-discovery component.
And we do yoga, meditation.
(28:21):
But our signature retreat,which is my most favorite
retreat, is a week-long retreat.
It's on the Greek island, crete.
We all come together in abeautiful resort and it's us
only.
We sleep together, we eattogether and we practice
together and it's calledunderstanding self and it really
goes into, uh, separating selffrom mind and just an inward
discovery.
Yeah, and that's in september,in in crete, delicious and what
(28:46):
a beautiful time of year as well.
Sonya (28:48):
I'm actually um going to be in europe in september nice
and'm looking at the date.
I did have a peek on yourwebsite, which is how I knew.
And I was like that timesbeautifully when I'm planning to
meet my husband in Italy.
I was like maybe I couldsqueeze that in Before arriving.
Despina (29:05):
I don't know if it's a good idea.
Oh, actually, it could be agood idea afterwards, but I
think probably before looking atthe dates, but yeah.
Sonya (29:13):
So how wonderful though.
A week in Greece, on your ownIsland or your own resort within
the Island, and just doing allthat inward work.
How amazing.
Despina (29:23):
Yeah, and the great thing is, what I found so good
is we get people from all overthe world and this one's very
small one this is, I think we'vegot the maximum 14 people that
can fit, but it's people fromall over the world and when you
look at the people, you thinkthey would never be friends.
When I first start a retreat, Iget a bit panicky and I think,
oh my God, how are we all goingto get on, you know?
But the connections that aremade, I think this is just
(29:45):
blissful.
This is when you just reallytake down the layers and just
connect with people, with whothey are, and I just think it
makes a beautiful impact on yourlife to be able to go home
feeling like, you know, I'm astep closer to where I want to
be.
Yeah, we never get there, butalways great to be a step closer
.
It's a life's work.
Sonya (30:05):
Yeah, yeah, life's work Absolutely.
There is no such thing asperfection.
Despina, I have loved chattingwith you today.
I'm really grateful to haveconnected with you.
It was you that reached out tome, which I'm so grateful for.
Thank you for doing that.
I'm really pleased to have beenable to bring this conversation
to my listeners.
Thank you so much, sonia.
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