February 10, 2025 • 27 mins
Could a $573.3 million investment revolutionise menopause health in Australia?
Tune in to discover how this historic commitment from the Albanese government is set to transform menopause and perimenopause care across the nation.
With bipartisan support ensuring the longevity of these initiatives, we explore the Senate Inquiries and Budget Submissions that paved the way for these groundbreaking developments and the profound impact they promise for countless women.
This episode sheds light on how accessibility to menopause care is being reimagined, with Medicare rebates incentivising GPs to gain new skills and the expansion of existing clinics to include menopause specialists.
With advocacy playing a crucial role in these advancements, hear about the collaborative efforts behind the scenes that have resulted in cost reductions for MHT like Prometrium and Estrogel.
We wrap up with exciting news of an upcoming Dear Menopause interview with Assistant Minister Ged Kearney, promising an in-depth look into the policy changes that are shaking up women's healthcare.
Don't miss your chance to submit questions for this insightful conversation, as we aim to bring you all the behind-the-scenes details and celebrate these significant strides in women's health.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sonya (00:01):
Welcome to the Dear Menopause podcast.
I'm Sonya Lovell, your host Now.
I've been bringing youconversations with amazing
menopause experts for over twoyears now.
If you have missed any of thoseconversations, now's the time
to go back and listen, and youcan always share them with
anyone you think needs to hearthem.
This way, more people can findthese amazing conversations,
(00:24):
needs to hear them.
This way, more people can findthese amazing conversations.
Okay, everybody, strapyourselves in.
This is a bonus Newsflashepisode of Hot Take.
Joining me on the other side ofmy screen is Jo Wicks.
Jo, welcome, hi, sonya Nice tosee you Always nice to see you,
like we haven't been talking toeach other nonstop for the last
20.
Exactly, I'm sorry, everyone.
(00:45):
I just broke the third wall andthe illusion that Joe and I
really don't communicate outsideof this podcast when we record
it.
No, we have literally beeneither WhatsAppping or on the
phone nonstop for 24 hours, andwhy you may ask.
All right, let's unwrap thisincredible gift that was handed
down to the Australian women,yesterday being Sunday, the 9th
(01:07):
of February.
So, jo, $573.3 million justslightly higher than half a
billion dollars was announcedyesterday as a gift.
I promise, oh my gosh, there'sso much to unwrap but it is a
package that has been announced,all supporting women's health.
So you and I are going to shinea spotlight specifically on the
(01:31):
menopause and perimenopauseaspects of that.
We'll touch briefly at the endon some of the other inclusions,
because they are also important, obviously, to our wonderful
audience.
There's a few things I want tounpack with you, and you and I
have gone back and forth on this, but I think it would be really
good to share.
What does this actually mean?
Like, let's get down to thenuts and bolts.
It all looks great on paper,but what does it actually mean
(01:52):
and what needs to happen next.
One of the questions that Inoticed was coming up a lot in
the comments yesterday was oh,let's hope there's not an
election and the opposition getsin, and then they undo all of
this.
So let's unpack what thelikelihood of that is and
obviously go line by line andlook at what these inclusions
are.
Jo (02:11):
Well, basically, it's not just a lot of hot air and words.
It's an actual, very tangibleoutline of commitments for
women's health that the Albanesegovernment has made.
It's responding to two Senateinquiries that have been held
over the last two years one onequity and access around
reproductive health care and oneon menopause and perimenopause.
(02:32):
Both of those Senate inquirieswere delivered to the parliament
and have been waiting a formalresponse by the government, and
so this announcement is, I guess, the government's way of
responding formally to both ofthem and the recommendations,
and what a response it is.
Sonya (02:47):
Yeah, and I think actually I also happened to
catch Katie Gallagher on theInsiders on Sunday morning.
She did actually say in thatinterview that the government
would be formally responding toboth of those Senate inquiries
this coming week.
Jo (03:02):
Yes, in fact, now the Parliament's back again.
So what they've done, theirsuite of announcements, covers
off the majority of therecommendations in those reports
and it's really, reallyexciting Now because it's half a
billion dollars for women'shealth.
There is a lot that'sreproductive healthcare, but I
thought we'd hone in onmenopause, given that you know a
big club that we both arepassionate about.
(03:24):
And, like you said, yes, noteverything's going to happen at
once.
Some things are going to happenpretty much at once, but, um,
the rest of the items have beenput into the forward budget, is
my understanding, over the nextfive years, so they are part of
the budget process.
So it's not it's not um ameaningless promise.
It is actually grounded in thebudget and the opposition I has
(03:46):
come out and committed to allthe announcements made.
So, no matter what happens inthe election in 2025, my
understanding is that means thatit now has bypassed.
Sonya (03:55):
Yeah, yeah, and they did that really quickly yesterday
morning, which off the back ofthe announcement, which I
thought was really great.
I thought we can't stick ourheads in the sand and pretend
there's not an election coming.
You know, everybody knows thatthere is, and we also can't deny
that.
One of the things that Idislike the most about elections
is that one party promisessomething and then the other one
(04:17):
comes straight out and slamsthat and offers something else,
and it's really really good toknow that that hasn't happened
with this.
Jo (04:24):
Yeah, and I think that's because it's really really good
to know that that hasn'thappened with this.
Yeah, and I think that'sbecause it's been grounded in so
much, um, public engagement.
You know, I saw a few snippycomments on social media last
night and, look, they were theminority, overwhelmingly.
Hundreds of comments of justabsolute excitement by
australian women, um, and andsome jealousy by, uh,
international women.
But you know there were a fewsaying, oh, this is just, you
(04:44):
know, meaningless electionpromises and, as someone you
know, like yourself, sonia,who's been in this space now for
a couple of years, that'sactually not true.
Both the Senate inquiries thatthis response has drawn from
were incredibly detailedprocesses.
You know.
They heard hundreds andhundreds of hours of testimony,
they read hundreds ofsubmissions across both of them,
(05:07):
and that is a lot to siftthrough and come up with good,
solid policy that meets therecommendations, and that's not
something that can be doneovernight and I think what we
see here is really carefulpolicy decisions that the
Albanese government has outlined.
And so, yeah, do you want me torun through them?
Yeah, let's do that, me to runthrough them.
(05:30):
And yeah, let's, let's do that,let's run through them, yeah,
okay, so the first one I'm goingto talk about is, um, it's and
I think you know, I thinkthere'd be hundreds, if not
hundreds of thousands of womenthat will be able to relate to
this one and that this is goingto be.
It's the first tbs listing fornew menopause hormone therapies
in over 20 years.
And that is, I think wediscussed in the last hot take
how some of the modern menopausehormone therapy the body
(05:53):
identical, estrogel, estrogelPro and Prometrium had gone up
to PBAC Pharmaceutical BenefitsAdvisory Committee for
consideration for the PBS and wehad been waiting on the outcome
because PBAC had recommendedthat they be consideration for
the PBS.
And we had been waiting on theoutcome because PBAC had
recommended that they beconsidered for PBS listings and
it had then gone to anegotiation between the
pharmaceutical company and thegovernment.
(06:13):
And that negotiation hasobviously gone extremely fast
because these new therapies willbe on the PBS on the 1st of
March.
Sonya (06:22):
I know it's huge.
I pulled out my Prometrium totake it last night and I looked
at the packet and I'm on a twopack per script kind of scenario
and I looked at it.
I went 90.
It was costing me every twomonths for my Prometrium.
And I said to my husband it'son the PBS.
The next time I pick this upit'll be on the PBS.
What we don't know, though, yetis what price point it will be
(06:45):
on the PBS yet.
So we know that it will be lessthan what we were paying, but
we don't know yet what itactually will be.
Jo (06:51):
Yeah, and look, if you're already buying Estrogel, by
itself I can imagine there won'tbe much of a price difference
because it's already around the$30 mark if you go to Chemist
Warehouse.
But where the real savings willbe, the average Australian is
for the Promethean, or if you'reon Estrogel Pro, it could
potentially be extremely costeffective.
But the the thing that I thinkthat I've seen from doctors the
(07:13):
most is that they're mostexcited about and it's one of
the things that we advocated forand which was in our budget
submission last year.
But it means that if you're ona health care card or a
concession card, these, you know, safe, modern, re-identical
drugs are now um $7.50, I think,which is just, you know, will
make a huge difference and itmeans it's accessible for a lot
(07:36):
of women that couldn't affordthem and I think it makes it.
It's that equity of access.
Sonya (07:41):
Yeah, and that's just.
That's huge, isn't it?
Like you know, that's what wehave been talking about and I
know it's a drum that I bangover and over again is that we
need to make healthcare andmedicines accessible and
equitable, and this really doesdo that.
Jo (07:58):
Yeah, I've already seen so many comments by women going oh
my goodness, I'm going to switchto Prometrium.
I'm going back to the doctorfrom the 1st of March to get a
new script because now this isgoing to be affordable.
I mean, and the 1st of March issuper soon.
Oh, it's around the corner.
Secondly, the next piece that Iwas super excited about was
there is going to be a nationalawareness campaign funded out of
(08:21):
this announcement and again,this is something else that us
and many other advocates havebeen calling for and this is
around the fact that so manywomen you know, myself included,
had no idea what perimenopauseor menopause is, and a national
awareness campaign will meanthat this is rolled out across
all parts of Australia in alldifferent formats to help
(08:44):
educate women and ABFAB peopleabout what menopause means and
how it will impact them.
Sonya (08:50):
Yeah, and I think one of the things that I love about it
as well is it's not justeducating the women, it's
actually educating the entirepopulation.
We're going to capture in thatawareness campaign partners and
sons and daughters andcolleagues and leaders in the
workplace.
You know it is.
Jo (09:05):
It is an absolute game changer to know that there is
actually now going to be anawareness campaign that's funded
and I think you know what I'mmost excited about is my
understanding it will be goingout to tender, so I hope that
lots of the creative agencieswill team up with some patient
advocacy groups and think aboutputting in for a tender to do
some really kind of exciting,engaging ways of sharing this
(09:29):
information.
Sonya (09:32):
And we've because you know, I know I've seen some
incredible awareness campaignscome out of particularly some of
the European countries, andthey are often campaigns that
are collaborated on with eithera pharmaceutical company or a
more commercial kind of company.
But yeah, the creative agenciescan literally have a field day
(09:52):
with this if they connect withthe right people and they can be
successful in the tender.
Jo (09:57):
No, I know, and have you seen the I think is it NYX
N-K-N-I-X one To me that reallyresonates as a Gen X woman.
And have you seen the I think isit NYX N-K-N-I-X one To me that
really resonates as a Gen Xwoman.
I'm like it's funky, it'sstrong, it's informative, you
know, it's really engaging.
So yeah, that's a bit of anexcitement in that space.
It is One of the other thingsthat got mentioned, which will
be that we'll have some nationalclinical guidelines on
(10:20):
perimenopause and menopause.
National clinical guidelines onperimenopause and menopause.
I mean, what a gap.
There are no national clinicalguidelines on perimenopause and
menopause in Australia.
Just a small gap that's existed, mind-blowing.
Sonya (10:31):
Yeah, that should have been a no-brainer to be included
, I know.
Jo (10:35):
So I don't think any information hasn't come out yet
about how that's going to beorganised, but usually what will
happen is there will be anexpert advisory committee, often
created, which will bringclinicians from all different
backgrounds so all differentviews get heard, and not
necessarily just one side or theloudest voices, but it's an
opportunity for everyone to cometogether and nod out yeah great
(10:56):
.
Sonya (10:56):
What's the?
Jo (10:56):
best evidence, what's the best guidelines?
And I think, sonia, thinkingabout your new role, I feel that
this is something where youknow there'll be potentially a
massive seat at the table um tohave that discussion about how
clinical guidelines affect womenaffected by cancer.
Sonya (11:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll definitely be, uh, making a
little bit of noise to get myvoice heard in that aspect, and
then the third thing that I gotsuper excited about was the
medicare rebate.
So yeah, this one's fantasticand again, it's something that
was a recommendation from theSenate inquiry and also our
budget submission that we put in.
I think this is one thatperhaps not a lot of people
(11:32):
would have even been aware was apossibility, so I think this is
a really cool one to talk about.
Jo (11:36):
Yeah, and I think so.
This came up a lot by a lot ofthe medical professionals who
presented at the Senate inquiry.
So it's around doctors havingenough time to talk to women and
make an in-depth assessment ofwhat's going on.
I mean, we heard a lot abouthow a lot of women are just
hopped onto antidepressants In a15-minute consult or a
six-minute consult.
(11:57):
There's not very much that a GPcan do in terms of, I guess,
fleshing out what is going on inthe person sitting in front of
them's life, and that therebates for long consults have
just not been adequate.
It doesn't incentivize eitherpatients or GPs to do a long
consult.
So this will give more time tohave those important
(12:17):
conversations and go.
If someone does talk about lowmood, is it related to hormones
or is it something else?
I think that's going to be areally big, big difference and I
think we'll see a lot ofexcitement from the medical
community around this.
Sonya (12:30):
Yeah, and what needs to go hand in hand with that?
Obviously and I know that thisis on our list of things to talk
about as a result of thispackage but that is GP education
, because you know, there isabsolutely no point giving us
this Medicare rebate and settingthis precedent for these long
health assessments related toperimenopause and menopause, but
not having educated GPs andnurses within the clinics as
(12:54):
well.
That can then actually supportthe patient.
Jo (12:57):
Yeah, and I think this is the one that was going off quite
a lot on social media lastnight with a lot of people being
like, oh my goodness, gpeducation is so needed.
You know, can't wait to.
You know, help upskill my GP.
And you know a lot of GPs werecalling for this in the Senate
inquiry testimonials as well,you know, and sort of saying
there hasn't been a lot ofeducation in this space and
(13:18):
they've had to upskill.
So again, my understanding isthat this will also be going out
to tender.
Now, both the National AwarenessCampaign and the GP Education
Campaign aren't going to happenin the next few weeks.
They will take a little whileto get set up.
The Department of Health willusually put together a tender, a
(13:38):
procurement document, and Isuspect, given the time of year,
that may have to wait untilafter the election.
Election.
Yeah, because you know that's atime-consuming process and once
the election's called, no newtenders can be entered into.
So I think we'll probably haveto wait till after April, may
for that process to start.
But again, I guess it's a headsup that if you are interested
(13:59):
in potentially providing GPeducation, education and you
think your you know organizationor a consortium is going to be
well well positioned to do this.
Um start thinking about what itis.
What is to be your unique valueproposition yeah, absolutely.
Sonya (14:14):
But and also a really good time for patients when they
are having their appointmentswith gps and clinicians in these
weeks and months leading up tothose tenders being successful
and the training programscreated and rolled out, is to
actually just start nudging them.
So are you planning to upskill?
We've had this amazingannouncement.
We know that we've got thisMedicare rebated appointments.
(14:36):
Now you know what are yourplans to upskill into menopause?
Jo (14:40):
Yeah, exactly.
And the last one, I think,think and I'll see if anything
else jumps out was the expansionof the medical clinics,
expanding the network of theendometriosis and pelvic pain
clinics.
I think there's 22 acrossAustralia at the moment, and so
they're going to add 11.
So that will make 33 clinicsacross Australia, and they will
(15:04):
now also be staffed to providespecialist for perimenopause and
menopause, which is soimportant, especially when we
come back to that equity ofaccess issue.
Again, there have been quite afew amazing menopause clinics
that exist.
Now, you know, they'veobviously got the original
Wellfem, who provides telehealthacross all of Australia, and
(15:25):
then you've got HERA.
Sonya (15:27):
You've got Myma here in Sydney.
Jo (15:32):
And so there are more and more coming on.
But you know, many of themstill have a fairly decent
out-of-pocket cost which isn'taccessible for all.
Pocket cost which isn'taccessible for all.
This does mean that you know,if you think your regular GP
isn't upskilled and you're notgetting the support you need,
then you'll be able to make anappointment with one of these
clinics and get yourself to oneof them and they are distributed
(15:53):
across Australia.
And I meant to add before, whenwe're talking about the medicare
rebate for menopause healthassessment that's going to be
introduced from the 1st of julywell, okay, so they did announce
a date with that, so that'sfrom the 1st of july, okay,
(16:14):
great.
Sonya (16:14):
Yeah, so there's a real incentive there for the gps to
actually start reallyconsidering upskilling.
Yeah, because there is going tobe a significant demand come
the first of july, so I know,and then um, I thought I'd just
do a.
Jo (16:28):
Do you want I do a quick run through of all the other things
that would yeah, yeah,absolutely.
Let's touch on the other things,for sure because the other
thing I was feeling a little bitexcited about um, I've got a
teenage daughter, uh, and wasthinking around there's a whole
big suite around contraceptiveaccess as well, which is so
needed was even, dare I say,more overdue than um menopause
(16:50):
hormone therapy.
There had been no new moderncontraception added to the pbs
for 30 years.
Yeah, which is just likemind-blowing, especially when
you think about how farcontraceptive care has come in
the last 30 years.
Um, there's been real progressaround um a lot of body far
contraceptive care has come inthe last 30 years.
There's been real progressaround a lot of body identical
contraceptive, lower dosecontraceptives.
So I think it's Yaz and Yasminagain that we've just talked
(17:10):
about on a previous talk tapeare going to be going onto PBS
on 1st of March as well.
Sonya (17:16):
And Slinda, I think as well.
Is that right?
Well, I think Slinda has.
Oh, okay, okay, um, is thatright?
Well, I think slinda has.
Oh, okay, okay, I'll say that,yeah, that's so.
That's one of the ones that'sstill being negotiated with the
pharmaceutical company, frompricing and that sort of thing.
Okay, cool, but definitely yazand yasmin, yeah and yasmin,
yeah, which is really, really.
Jo (17:38):
I mean I can imagine there's going to be a huge uptake over
those mom contraceptives.
Sonya (17:42):
And I think, alongside that as well was also the
treatment for uncomplicated UTIsbeing accessible direct from a
pharmacy as well, which I thinkis just, you know, brilliant,
the same way that hopefully oneday we'll be on here talking
about vaginal estrogen beingavailable direct from a
pharmacist as well.
But you know, yeah, to be ableto get that over-the-counter
care for uncomplicated UTIs is,you know, a great addition and
(18:07):
it will.
Jo (18:07):
You know it makes it.
It makes it cheaper for theconsumer, but it also relieves
pressure on you know the medicalsystem, the GP, gp system.
Sonya (18:16):
Yeah, exactly, um, okay, so what else have?
Jo (18:20):
we got in there around oh, and the other one was around IUD
.
So reducing the cost of gettingan IUD or Implanon, which could
be a cost saving for up to $500, which is massive.
I'm actually due to get a newIUD, so I'm like, oh, when does
this one come in?
Sonya (18:35):
Yeah, you know what?
I am not someone that's everhad an IUD, so I was again
educated on ABC Insidersyesterday morning when I was
watching it because I think itwas Samantha Maiden actually
gave out the cost of all thedifferent you know having an IUD
, having an implant on and allof that sort of thing, and I had
no idea it was so expensive.
Jo (18:56):
It's really expensive and that is partially been because
obviously you have to do quitespecific training to be able to
insert and remove an IUD or animplant on.
But then the rebate that theprovider gets for doing it is I
can't remember what it is, butit's very, very low.
It's really not worth theirtime.
So they're both procedures thatyou certainly can't do in
(19:16):
15-minute care.
Sonya (19:18):
Yeah, and you have to have the skills to be able to do
it.
Not every GP can do that.
Jo (19:24):
Can do that.
The amount the rebate waswasn't incentivising doctors to
upskill.
So again, it's that now I couldbe incentivised to provide
these forms of contraception anddo so, you know, to more women,
especially rural and remotewhere it can often be quite hard
to.
(19:44):
I can imagine, and you knowbecause the IED that for me in
perimenopause I use that for my,the progestin of my MHT, and
it's also amazing with the heavybleeding which you know.
I think that's something thatDr Talael and Women's Health
Road you know they've createdthe Bleed Better campaign around
(20:07):
that awareness raising aroundheavy menstrual bleeding, and
the idea just was amazing forreducing that.
So, so many women experiencethat in perimenopause.
So not only is it a great formof birth control, because you
put it in and you don't thinkabout it for five years, but
then it can absolutely wipe outthat heavy bleeding.
Sonya (20:22):
Yeah, you don't think about it for five years, but
then it can absolutely wipe outthat heavy weighting.
Yeah, fantastic.
So, overall, some fantastic,fantastic recommendations or
investments that have beendocumented in this, this package
.
You know I love that theirtagline is more choice, lower
costs and better health care forwomen, like it's it's.
You know they're deliveringwhat they're selling in the
(20:43):
tagline.
What we've touched on, otherthan the things that we know
that we have dates for coming,which is the PBS for the
Prometrium and the Eastergel andthe Eastergel Pro and the 1st
of July for the Medicare rebateseverything else is pretty much
not likely to get much movementuntil post-election and
obviously tender processes arecompleted and that sort of thing
(21:05):
.
So, yeah, lots of excitement,lots of hope that you know we
have really broken through.
You know what really wasfeeling like a bit of a concrete
wall there for a while, and youknow one of the things that we
were going to touch on and isaround how this process has kind
of evolved.
You know A lot of people thinkthat these things the government
just goes and cherry, pickssomething off a tree and throws
(21:27):
them into a report and puts somemoney against them.
But let's talk just for amoment, so that people do have
an understanding of what's goneinto this actual outcome From my
perspective.
My involvement in this startedback with our pre-budget
submission, which I think, ifI'm right, we started putting
together in 2022.
(21:48):
Oh, 2023.
Jo (21:49):
Yeah, we did a small one in 2022.
Okay, because it was quiterushed.
And then we did a much biggerone.
I think it probably startedaround August 2023.
Sonya (22:01):
Yeah.
Jo (22:03):
Built a collaboration of.
You know.
It was clinicians, patientadvocates and academics who came
together and nutted out, youknow, if we wanted to see
transformative menopausal action, what would be the pillars that
the government would need toact on to really sort of change
(22:23):
the landscape.
And I think we came up withseven key things.
It was our wish list of whatwe'd like to see the government
do and I noticed that KellyTeagle had done a beautiful
little graphic on last nightshowing that five of the seven
items on our budget submissiongot big green ticks.
Sonya (22:47):
Big green ticks, yeah.
So this has been a labor oflove for many of us, a really
big cohort.
We're so driven by passion anda real desire to make change for
the community.
At the end of the day, thisisn't about lining anyone's
pockets and it's not aboutputting anybody on a pedestal as
being the best.
In Australia, this is very muchbeen driven by, and the
(23:10):
government has delivered on whatis the biggest needs in the
community right now how can weimprove the quality of life for
our women that are in theirperimenopausal and menopausal
years?
And also the other things thatwe talked about that have been
ticked off as well, outside ofour remit.
So, yeah, a huge cause for usfor celebration.
Jo (23:27):
Yesterday, you know there were many on and I think it is
that sense of you know peopleare wondering.
You know, I think in the lasthot take we talked about the
Menopause Advocacy Toolkit, butit's kind of everywhere and it's
that reminder that sometimes itcan feel like doing a budget
submission.
You know, I think if you goonto the Treasury website
there's like 300 from this timelast year, which is where the
(23:49):
collaborative effort that wecontributed to is.
It can feel like it just goesnowhere and nobody reads it.
But I think it's that reminderthat you have to participate in
the process to have your voiceheard, and that was part of the
advocacy that we all did.
And then it was theconversations with politicians,
it was the conversations withjournalists, having people on
the Dear Menopause podcast.
(24:10):
You know that all then buildsthe story and the narrative and,
yes, a glass of champagne forsure.
I just want to just add theother thing that struck me when
I was reflecting on this lastnight is this is why
representation matters, I thinkyou know is this is why
representation matters.
I think you know this ispartially come about because the
(24:31):
Australian Parliament has morewomen parliamentarians than any
other time in its history and wehave a Minister for Finance, a
Minister for Women who's a woman.
We have an Assistant Ministerfor Health who's a woman.
We have a Minister for SocialServices and Aged Care who's a
woman.
The leader for women in theGreens, larissa Waters, is a
woman.
When you have women in thesedecision-making positions of
(24:52):
power and influence, the issuesthat matter to women are more
likely to be heard.
And it's this perfect storm ofadvocacy and having, frankly,
women in positions where theycan act on the things that are
important to other women'scommunities that's really
excited me, yeah, yeah.
Sonya (25:08):
And I think the other thing I'd add to that too that I
think is really important to umto you know, acknowledge, and
that is that we are also in this, you know, this new space of
where people have access toinformation, where voices can be
heard, and I think you know wenow have these incredible tools,
love them or hate them, butsocial media, you know, is where
(25:30):
people go now to get their newsto you know, so much of the
traditional news now is behind apaywall.
Yes, exactly.
You know, people are listeningto podcasts, people are on
social media, you know that iswhere they are.
Jo (25:43):
People have conversations with people.
Sonya (25:43):
I listening to podcasts.
People are on social media.
You know that is where they are.
People have never met, I know,isn't it awesome?
I mean, there's some people onthere that you really kind of
don't want to meet as well.
But you know, I really thinkthis says a lot for the raising
of the conversation and theprofile of people that can be
trusted and people that arereally doing hard work out there
aren't always found in yourtraditional.
You know places that the worldhas changed and it's time
(26:06):
everyone embraced that.
Jo (26:07):
I know it's a really exciting time.
Well, let's look forward to the1st of March and filling our
scripts.
Sonya (26:11):
Sonia, I am going to finish off by sharing a little
bit of exciting news that I gotthis afternoon, and that is that
Assistant Minister for Healthand Aged Care, jed oh, I must
learn how to say that properlybefore I interview her Jed
Carney will be joining me hereon Dear Menopause and we're
hoping to record in the nextweek or so, so I will be able to
(26:33):
really deep dive with her intolike everything that went on
behind the scenes with this.
I'll get all the juicy gossipfor you we should list those.
Jo (26:44):
You know, if they've got any burning questions, should they?
Sonya (26:46):
send you some.
Look, my DMs are always open.
Absolutely Hit me up.
What a great way to end Awesome.
Jo (26:52):
Thanks Jo.
Sonya (26:55):
All right, I'm going to hit end.
Oh my gosh.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Welcome to the Dear Menopause podcast.
I'm Sonya Lovell, your host Now.
I've been bringing youconversations with amazing
menopause experts for over twoyears now.
If you have missed any of thoseconversations, now's the time
to go back and listen, and youcan always share them with
anyone you think needs to hearthem.
This way, more people can findthese amazing conversations,
(00:24):
needs to hear them.
This way, more people can findthese amazing conversations.
Okay, everybody, strapyourselves in.
This is a bonus Newsflashepisode of Hot Take.
Joining me on the other side ofmy screen is Jo Wicks.
Jo, welcome, hi, sonya Nice tosee you Always nice to see you,
like we haven't been talking toeach other nonstop for the last
20.
Exactly, I'm sorry, everyone.
(00:45):
I just broke the third wall andthe illusion that Joe and I
really don't communicate outsideof this podcast when we record
it.
No, we have literally beeneither WhatsAppping or on the
phone nonstop for 24 hours, andwhy you may ask.
All right, let's unwrap thisincredible gift that was handed
down to the Australian women,yesterday being Sunday, the 9th
(01:07):
of February.
So, jo, $573.3 million justslightly higher than half a
billion dollars was announcedyesterday as a gift.
I promise, oh my gosh, there'sso much to unwrap but it is a
package that has been announced,all supporting women's health.
So you and I are going to shinea spotlight specifically on the
(01:31):
menopause and perimenopauseaspects of that.
We'll touch briefly at the endon some of the other inclusions,
because they are also important, obviously, to our wonderful
audience.
There's a few things I want tounpack with you, and you and I
have gone back and forth on this, but I think it would be really
good to share.
What does this actually mean?
Like, let's get down to thenuts and bolts.
It all looks great on paper,but what does it actually mean
(01:52):
and what needs to happen next.
One of the questions that Inoticed was coming up a lot in
the comments yesterday was oh,let's hope there's not an
election and the opposition getsin, and then they undo all of
this.
So let's unpack what thelikelihood of that is and
obviously go line by line andlook at what these inclusions
are.
Jo (02:11):
Well, basically, it's not just a lot of hot air and words.
It's an actual, very tangibleoutline of commitments for
women's health that the Albanesegovernment has made.
It's responding to two Senateinquiries that have been held
over the last two years one onequity and access around
reproductive health care and oneon menopause and perimenopause.
(02:32):
Both of those Senate inquirieswere delivered to the parliament
and have been waiting a formalresponse by the government, and
so this announcement is, I guess, the government's way of
responding formally to both ofthem and the recommendations,
and what a response it is.
Sonya (02:47):
Yeah, and I think actually I also happened to
catch Katie Gallagher on theInsiders on Sunday morning.
She did actually say in thatinterview that the government
would be formally responding toboth of those Senate inquiries
this coming week.
Jo (03:02):
Yes, in fact, now the Parliament's back again.
So what they've done, theirsuite of announcements, covers
off the majority of therecommendations in those reports
and it's really, reallyexciting Now because it's half a
billion dollars for women'shealth.
There is a lot that'sreproductive healthcare, but I
thought we'd hone in onmenopause, given that you know a
big club that we both arepassionate about.
(03:24):
And, like you said, yes, noteverything's going to happen at
once.
Some things are going to happenpretty much at once, but, um,
the rest of the items have beenput into the forward budget, is
my understanding, over the nextfive years, so they are part of
the budget process.
So it's not it's not um ameaningless promise.
It is actually grounded in thebudget and the opposition I has
(03:46):
come out and committed to allthe announcements made.
So, no matter what happens inthe election in 2025, my
understanding is that means thatit now has bypassed.
Sonya (03:55):
Yeah, yeah, and they did that really quickly yesterday
morning, which off the back ofthe announcement, which I
thought was really great.
I thought we can't stick ourheads in the sand and pretend
there's not an election coming.
You know, everybody knows thatthere is, and we also can't deny
that.
One of the things that Idislike the most about elections
is that one party promisessomething and then the other one
(04:17):
comes straight out and slamsthat and offers something else,
and it's really really good toknow that that hasn't happened
with this.
Jo (04:24):
Yeah, and I think that's because it's really really good
to know that that hasn'thappened with this.
Yeah, and I think that'sbecause it's been grounded in so
much, um, public engagement.
You know, I saw a few snippycomments on social media last
night and, look, they were theminority, overwhelmingly.
Hundreds of comments of justabsolute excitement by
australian women, um, and andsome jealousy by, uh,
international women.
But you know there were a fewsaying, oh, this is just, you
(04:44):
know, meaningless electionpromises and, as someone you
know, like yourself, sonia,who's been in this space now for
a couple of years, that'sactually not true.
Both the Senate inquiries thatthis response has drawn from
were incredibly detailedprocesses.
You know.
They heard hundreds andhundreds of hours of testimony,
they read hundreds ofsubmissions across both of them,
(05:07):
and that is a lot to siftthrough and come up with good,
solid policy that meets therecommendations, and that's not
something that can be doneovernight and I think what we
see here is really carefulpolicy decisions that the
Albanese government has outlined.
And so, yeah, do you want me torun through them?
Yeah, let's do that, me to runthrough them.
(05:30):
And yeah, let's, let's do that,let's run through them, yeah,
okay, so the first one I'm goingto talk about is, um, it's and
I think you know, I thinkthere'd be hundreds, if not
hundreds of thousands of womenthat will be able to relate to
this one and that this is goingto be.
It's the first tbs listing fornew menopause hormone therapies
in over 20 years.
And that is, I think wediscussed in the last hot take
how some of the modern menopausehormone therapy the body
(05:53):
identical, estrogel, estrogelPro and Prometrium had gone up
to PBAC Pharmaceutical BenefitsAdvisory Committee for
consideration for the PBS and wehad been waiting on the outcome
because PBAC had recommendedthat they be consideration for
the PBS.
And we had been waiting on theoutcome because PBAC had
recommended that they beconsidered for PBS listings and
it had then gone to anegotiation between the
pharmaceutical company and thegovernment.
(06:13):
And that negotiation hasobviously gone extremely fast
because these new therapies willbe on the PBS on the 1st of
March.
Sonya (06:22):
I know it's huge.
I pulled out my Prometrium totake it last night and I looked
at the packet and I'm on a twopack per script kind of scenario
and I looked at it.
I went 90.
It was costing me every twomonths for my Prometrium.
And I said to my husband it'son the PBS.
The next time I pick this upit'll be on the PBS.
What we don't know, though, yetis what price point it will be
(06:45):
on the PBS yet.
So we know that it will be lessthan what we were paying, but
we don't know yet what itactually will be.
Jo (06:51):
Yeah, and look, if you're already buying Estrogel, by
itself I can imagine there won'tbe much of a price difference
because it's already around the$30 mark if you go to Chemist
Warehouse.
But where the real savings willbe, the average Australian is
for the Promethean, or if you'reon Estrogel Pro, it could
potentially be extremely costeffective.
But the the thing that I thinkthat I've seen from doctors the
(07:13):
most is that they're mostexcited about and it's one of
the things that we advocated forand which was in our budget
submission last year.
But it means that if you're ona health care card or a
concession card, these, you know, safe, modern, re-identical
drugs are now um $7.50, I think,which is just, you know, will
make a huge difference and itmeans it's accessible for a lot
(07:36):
of women that couldn't affordthem and I think it makes it.
It's that equity of access.
Sonya (07:41):
Yeah, and that's just.
That's huge, isn't it?
Like you know, that's what wehave been talking about and I
know it's a drum that I bangover and over again is that we
need to make healthcare andmedicines accessible and
equitable, and this really doesdo that.
Jo (07:58):
Yeah, I've already seen so many comments by women going oh
my goodness, I'm going to switchto Prometrium.
I'm going back to the doctorfrom the 1st of March to get a
new script because now this isgoing to be affordable.
I mean, and the 1st of March issuper soon.
Oh, it's around the corner.
Secondly, the next piece that Iwas super excited about was
there is going to be a nationalawareness campaign funded out of
(08:21):
this announcement and again,this is something else that us
and many other advocates havebeen calling for and this is
around the fact that so manywomen you know, myself included,
had no idea what perimenopauseor menopause is, and a national
awareness campaign will meanthat this is rolled out across
all parts of Australia in alldifferent formats to help
(08:44):
educate women and ABFAB peopleabout what menopause means and
how it will impact them.
Sonya (08:50):
Yeah, and I think one of the things that I love about it
as well is it's not justeducating the women, it's
actually educating the entirepopulation.
We're going to capture in thatawareness campaign partners and
sons and daughters andcolleagues and leaders in the
workplace.
You know it is.
Jo (09:05):
It is an absolute game changer to know that there is
actually now going to be anawareness campaign that's funded
and I think you know what I'mmost excited about is my
understanding it will be goingout to tender, so I hope that
lots of the creative agencieswill team up with some patient
advocacy groups and think aboutputting in for a tender to do
some really kind of exciting,engaging ways of sharing this
(09:29):
information.
Sonya (09:32):
And we've because you know, I know I've seen some
incredible awareness campaignscome out of particularly some of
the European countries, andthey are often campaigns that
are collaborated on with eithera pharmaceutical company or a
more commercial kind of company.
But yeah, the creative agenciescan literally have a field day
(09:52):
with this if they connect withthe right people and they can be
successful in the tender.
Jo (09:57):
No, I know, and have you seen the I think is it NYX
N-K-N-I-X one To me that reallyresonates as a Gen X woman.
And have you seen the I think isit NYX N-K-N-I-X one To me that
really resonates as a Gen Xwoman.
I'm like it's funky, it'sstrong, it's informative, you
know, it's really engaging.
So yeah, that's a bit of anexcitement in that space.
It is One of the other thingsthat got mentioned, which will
be that we'll have some nationalclinical guidelines on
(10:20):
perimenopause and menopause.
National clinical guidelines onperimenopause and menopause.
I mean, what a gap.
There are no national clinicalguidelines on perimenopause and
menopause in Australia.
Just a small gap that's existed, mind-blowing.
Sonya (10:31):
Yeah, that should have been a no-brainer to be included
, I know.
Jo (10:35):
So I don't think any information hasn't come out yet
about how that's going to beorganised, but usually what will
happen is there will be anexpert advisory committee, often
created, which will bringclinicians from all different
backgrounds so all differentviews get heard, and not
necessarily just one side or theloudest voices, but it's an
opportunity for everyone to cometogether and nod out yeah great
(10:56):
.
Sonya (10:56):
What's the?
Jo (10:56):
best evidence, what's the best guidelines?
And I think, sonia, thinkingabout your new role, I feel that
this is something where youknow there'll be potentially a
massive seat at the table um tohave that discussion about how
clinical guidelines affect womenaffected by cancer.
Sonya (11:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll definitely be, uh, making a
little bit of noise to get myvoice heard in that aspect, and
then the third thing that I gotsuper excited about was the
medicare rebate.
So yeah, this one's fantasticand again, it's something that
was a recommendation from theSenate inquiry and also our
budget submission that we put in.
I think this is one thatperhaps not a lot of people
(11:32):
would have even been aware was apossibility, so I think this is
a really cool one to talk about.
Jo (11:36):
Yeah, and I think so.
This came up a lot by a lot ofthe medical professionals who
presented at the Senate inquiry.
So it's around doctors havingenough time to talk to women and
make an in-depth assessment ofwhat's going on.
I mean, we heard a lot abouthow a lot of women are just
hopped onto antidepressants In a15-minute consult or a
six-minute consult.
(11:57):
There's not very much that a GPcan do in terms of, I guess,
fleshing out what is going on inthe person sitting in front of
them's life, and that therebates for long consults have
just not been adequate.
It doesn't incentivize eitherpatients or GPs to do a long
consult.
So this will give more time tohave those important
(12:17):
conversations and go.
If someone does talk about lowmood, is it related to hormones
or is it something else?
I think that's going to be areally big, big difference and I
think we'll see a lot ofexcitement from the medical
community around this.
Sonya (12:30):
Yeah, and what needs to go hand in hand with that?
Obviously and I know that thisis on our list of things to talk
about as a result of thispackage but that is GP education
, because you know, there isabsolutely no point giving us
this Medicare rebate and settingthis precedent for these long
health assessments related toperimenopause and menopause, but
not having educated GPs andnurses within the clinics as
(12:54):
well.
That can then actually supportthe patient.
Jo (12:57):
Yeah, and I think this is the one that was going off quite
a lot on social media lastnight with a lot of people being
like, oh my goodness, gpeducation is so needed.
You know, can't wait to.
You know, help upskill my GP.
And you know a lot of GPs werecalling for this in the Senate
inquiry testimonials as well,you know, and sort of saying
there hasn't been a lot ofeducation in this space and
(13:18):
they've had to upskill.
So again, my understanding isthat this will also be going out
to tender.
Now, both the National AwarenessCampaign and the GP Education
Campaign aren't going to happenin the next few weeks.
They will take a little whileto get set up.
The Department of Health willusually put together a tender, a
(13:38):
procurement document, and Isuspect, given the time of year,
that may have to wait untilafter the election.
Election.
Yeah, because you know that's atime-consuming process and once
the election's called, no newtenders can be entered into.
So I think we'll probably haveto wait till after April, may
for that process to start.
But again, I guess it's a headsup that if you are interested
(13:59):
in potentially providing GPeducation, education and you
think your you know organizationor a consortium is going to be
well well positioned to do this.
Um start thinking about what itis.
What is to be your unique valueproposition yeah, absolutely.
Sonya (14:14):
But and also a really good time for patients when they
are having their appointmentswith gps and clinicians in these
weeks and months leading up tothose tenders being successful
and the training programscreated and rolled out, is to
actually just start nudging them.
So are you planning to upskill?
We've had this amazingannouncement.
We know that we've got thisMedicare rebated appointments.
(14:36):
Now you know what are yourplans to upskill into menopause?
Jo (14:40):
Yeah, exactly.
And the last one, I think,think and I'll see if anything
else jumps out was the expansionof the medical clinics,
expanding the network of theendometriosis and pelvic pain
clinics.
I think there's 22 acrossAustralia at the moment, and so
they're going to add 11.
So that will make 33 clinicsacross Australia, and they will
(15:04):
now also be staffed to providespecialist for perimenopause and
menopause, which is soimportant, especially when we
come back to that equity ofaccess issue.
Again, there have been quite afew amazing menopause clinics
that exist.
Now, you know, they'veobviously got the original
Wellfem, who provides telehealthacross all of Australia, and
(15:25):
then you've got HERA.
Sonya (15:27):
You've got Myma here in Sydney.
Jo (15:32):
And so there are more and more coming on.
But you know, many of themstill have a fairly decent
out-of-pocket cost which isn'taccessible for all.
Pocket cost which isn'taccessible for all.
This does mean that you know,if you think your regular GP
isn't upskilled and you're notgetting the support you need,
then you'll be able to make anappointment with one of these
clinics and get yourself to oneof them and they are distributed
(15:53):
across Australia.
And I meant to add before, whenwe're talking about the medicare
rebate for menopause healthassessment that's going to be
introduced from the 1st of julywell, okay, so they did announce
a date with that, so that'sfrom the 1st of july, okay,
(16:14):
great.
Sonya (16:14):
Yeah, so there's a real incentive there for the gps to
actually start reallyconsidering upskilling.
Yeah, because there is going tobe a significant demand come
the first of july, so I know,and then um, I thought I'd just
do a.
Jo (16:28):
Do you want I do a quick run through of all the other things
that would yeah, yeah,absolutely.
Let's touch on the other things,for sure because the other
thing I was feeling a little bitexcited about um, I've got a
teenage daughter, uh, and wasthinking around there's a whole
big suite around contraceptiveaccess as well, which is so
needed was even, dare I say,more overdue than um menopause
(16:50):
hormone therapy.
There had been no new moderncontraception added to the pbs
for 30 years.
Yeah, which is just likemind-blowing, especially when
you think about how farcontraceptive care has come in
the last 30 years.
Um, there's been real progressaround um a lot of body far
contraceptive care has come inthe last 30 years.
There's been real progressaround a lot of body identical
contraceptive, lower dosecontraceptives.
So I think it's Yaz and Yasminagain that we've just talked
(17:10):
about on a previous talk tapeare going to be going onto PBS
on 1st of March as well.
Sonya (17:16):
And Slinda, I think as well.
Is that right?
Well, I think Slinda has.
Oh, okay, okay, um, is thatright?
Well, I think slinda has.
Oh, okay, okay, I'll say that,yeah, that's so.
That's one of the ones that'sstill being negotiated with the
pharmaceutical company, frompricing and that sort of thing.
Okay, cool, but definitely yazand yasmin, yeah and yasmin,
yeah, which is really, really.
Jo (17:38):
I mean I can imagine there's going to be a huge uptake over
those mom contraceptives.
Sonya (17:42):
And I think, alongside that as well was also the
treatment for uncomplicated UTIsbeing accessible direct from a
pharmacy as well, which I thinkis just, you know, brilliant,
the same way that hopefully oneday we'll be on here talking
about vaginal estrogen beingavailable direct from a
pharmacist as well.
But you know, yeah, to be ableto get that over-the-counter
care for uncomplicated UTIs is,you know, a great addition and
(18:07):
it will.
Jo (18:07):
You know it makes it.
It makes it cheaper for theconsumer, but it also relieves
pressure on you know the medicalsystem, the GP, gp system.
Sonya (18:16):
Yeah, exactly, um, okay, so what else have?
Jo (18:20):
we got in there around oh, and the other one was around IUD
.
So reducing the cost of gettingan IUD or Implanon, which could
be a cost saving for up to $500, which is massive.
I'm actually due to get a newIUD, so I'm like, oh, when does
this one come in?
Sonya (18:35):
Yeah, you know what?
I am not someone that's everhad an IUD, so I was again
educated on ABC Insidersyesterday morning when I was
watching it because I think itwas Samantha Maiden actually
gave out the cost of all thedifferent you know having an IUD
, having an implant on and allof that sort of thing, and I had
no idea it was so expensive.
Jo (18:56):
It's really expensive and that is partially been because
obviously you have to do quitespecific training to be able to
insert and remove an IUD or animplant on.
But then the rebate that theprovider gets for doing it is I
can't remember what it is, butit's very, very low.
It's really not worth theirtime.
So they're both procedures thatyou certainly can't do in
(19:16):
15-minute care.
Sonya (19:18):
Yeah, and you have to have the skills to be able to do
it.
Not every GP can do that.
Jo (19:24):
Can do that.
The amount the rebate waswasn't incentivising doctors to
upskill.
So again, it's that now I couldbe incentivised to provide
these forms of contraception anddo so, you know, to more women,
especially rural and remotewhere it can often be quite hard
to.
(19:44):
I can imagine, and you knowbecause the IED that for me in
perimenopause I use that for my,the progestin of my MHT, and
it's also amazing with the heavybleeding which you know.
I think that's something thatDr Talael and Women's Health
Road you know they've createdthe Bleed Better campaign around
(20:07):
that awareness raising aroundheavy menstrual bleeding, and
the idea just was amazing forreducing that.
So, so many women experiencethat in perimenopause.
So not only is it a great formof birth control, because you
put it in and you don't thinkabout it for five years, but
then it can absolutely wipe outthat heavy bleeding.
Sonya (20:22):
Yeah, you don't think about it for five years, but
then it can absolutely wipe outthat heavy weighting.
Yeah, fantastic.
So, overall, some fantastic,fantastic recommendations or
investments that have beendocumented in this, this package
.
You know I love that theirtagline is more choice, lower
costs and better health care forwomen, like it's it's.
You know they're deliveringwhat they're selling in the
(20:43):
tagline.
What we've touched on, otherthan the things that we know
that we have dates for coming,which is the PBS for the
Prometrium and the Eastergel andthe Eastergel Pro and the 1st
of July for the Medicare rebateseverything else is pretty much
not likely to get much movementuntil post-election and
obviously tender processes arecompleted and that sort of thing
(21:05):
.
So, yeah, lots of excitement,lots of hope that you know we
have really broken through.
You know what really wasfeeling like a bit of a concrete
wall there for a while, and youknow one of the things that we
were going to touch on and isaround how this process has kind
of evolved.
You know A lot of people thinkthat these things the government
just goes and cherry, pickssomething off a tree and throws
(21:27):
them into a report and puts somemoney against them.
But let's talk just for amoment, so that people do have
an understanding of what's goneinto this actual outcome From my
perspective.
My involvement in this startedback with our pre-budget
submission, which I think, ifI'm right, we started putting
together in 2022.
(21:48):
Oh, 2023.
Jo (21:49):
Yeah, we did a small one in 2022.
Okay, because it was quiterushed.
And then we did a much biggerone.
I think it probably startedaround August 2023.
Sonya (22:01):
Yeah.
Jo (22:03):
Built a collaboration of.
You know.
It was clinicians, patientadvocates and academics who came
together and nutted out, youknow, if we wanted to see
transformative menopausal action, what would be the pillars that
the government would need toact on to really sort of change
(22:23):
the landscape.
And I think we came up withseven key things.
It was our wish list of whatwe'd like to see the government
do and I noticed that KellyTeagle had done a beautiful
little graphic on last nightshowing that five of the seven
items on our budget submissiongot big green ticks.
Sonya (22:47):
Big green ticks, yeah.
So this has been a labor oflove for many of us, a really
big cohort.
We're so driven by passion anda real desire to make change for
the community.
At the end of the day, thisisn't about lining anyone's
pockets and it's not aboutputting anybody on a pedestal as
being the best.
In Australia, this is very muchbeen driven by, and the
(23:10):
government has delivered on whatis the biggest needs in the
community right now how can weimprove the quality of life for
our women that are in theirperimenopausal and menopausal
years?
And also the other things thatwe talked about that have been
ticked off as well, outside ofour remit.
So, yeah, a huge cause for usfor celebration.
Jo (23:27):
Yesterday, you know there were many on and I think it is
that sense of you know peopleare wondering.
You know, I think in the lasthot take we talked about the
Menopause Advocacy Toolkit, butit's kind of everywhere and it's
that reminder that sometimes itcan feel like doing a budget
submission.
You know, I think if you goonto the Treasury website
there's like 300 from this timelast year, which is where the
(23:49):
collaborative effort that wecontributed to is.
It can feel like it just goesnowhere and nobody reads it.
But I think it's that reminderthat you have to participate in
the process to have your voiceheard, and that was part of the
advocacy that we all did.
And then it was theconversations with politicians,
it was the conversations withjournalists, having people on
the Dear Menopause podcast.
(24:10):
You know that all then buildsthe story and the narrative and,
yes, a glass of champagne forsure.
I just want to just add theother thing that struck me when
I was reflecting on this lastnight is this is why
representation matters, I thinkyou know is this is why
representation matters.
I think you know this ispartially come about because the
(24:31):
Australian Parliament has morewomen parliamentarians than any
other time in its history and wehave a Minister for Finance, a
Minister for Women who's a woman.
We have an Assistant Ministerfor Health who's a woman.
We have a Minister for SocialServices and Aged Care who's a
woman.
The leader for women in theGreens, larissa Waters, is a
woman.
When you have women in thesedecision-making positions of
(24:52):
power and influence, the issuesthat matter to women are more
likely to be heard.
And it's this perfect storm ofadvocacy and having, frankly,
women in positions where theycan act on the things that are
important to other women'scommunities that's really
excited me, yeah, yeah.
Sonya (25:08):
And I think the other thing I'd add to that too that I
think is really important to umto you know, acknowledge, and
that is that we are also in this, you know, this new space of
where people have access toinformation, where voices can be
heard, and I think you know wenow have these incredible tools,
love them or hate them, butsocial media, you know, is where
(25:30):
people go now to get their newsto you know, so much of the
traditional news now is behind apaywall.
Yes, exactly.
You know, people are listeningto podcasts, people are on
social media, you know that iswhere they are.
Jo (25:43):
People have conversations with people.
Sonya (25:43):
I listening to podcasts.
People are on social media.
You know that is where they are.
People have never met, I know,isn't it awesome?
I mean, there's some people onthere that you really kind of
don't want to meet as well.
But you know, I really thinkthis says a lot for the raising
of the conversation and theprofile of people that can be
trusted and people that arereally doing hard work out there
aren't always found in yourtraditional.
You know places that the worldhas changed and it's time
(26:06):
everyone embraced that.
Jo (26:07):
I know it's a really exciting time.
Well, let's look forward to the1st of March and filling our
scripts.
Sonya (26:11):
Sonia, I am going to finish off by sharing a little
bit of exciting news that I gotthis afternoon, and that is that
Assistant Minister for Healthand Aged Care, jed oh, I must
learn how to say that properlybefore I interview her Jed
Carney will be joining me hereon Dear Menopause and we're
hoping to record in the nextweek or so, so I will be able to
(26:33):
really deep dive with her intolike everything that went on
behind the scenes with this.
I'll get all the juicy gossipfor you we should list those.
Jo (26:44):
You know, if they've got any burning questions, should they?
Sonya (26:46):
send you some.
Look, my DMs are always open.
Absolutely Hit me up.
What a great way to end Awesome.
Jo (26:52):
Thanks Jo.
Sonya (26:55):
All right, I'm going to hit end.
Oh my gosh.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
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