February 20, 2025 • 25 mins
Enjoy this captivating conversation with Dr. Louise Newson, a renowned Uk based expert in the field of menopause.
With her extensive background in evidence-based medicine and a passion for translating complex medical data into practical insights, Dr. Newson sheds light on the evolving landscape of menopause awareness, specifically in Australia.
You will hear about her journey from a career in pathology and cancer medicine to becoming a leading advocate for menopause education. Together, we discuss the highly anticipated "So Hot Right Now" event at the iconic Sydney Opera House, a groundbreaking occasion focused on perimenopause and menopause education.
Our discussion travels through the critical need for a patient-centered approach to hormone therapy, emphasising the importance of adapting medical education to meet real-world health challenges. With personal anecdotes and teaching experiences from Birmingham University, we dive into the intersection of scientific research and practical application, particularly in managing menopausal symptoms and future health risks.
Dr Newson addresses common misconceptions about hormone replacement therapy and the need for greater accessibility to medical literature, empowering women to make informed health decisions.
This episode brings you a blend of expert insights, personal experiences, and a heartfelt anticipation for inspiring shared journeys.
Links:
So Hot Right Now - live stream tickets
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sonya (00:01):
Welcome to the Dear Menopause podcast.
I'm Sonya Lovell, your host Now.
I've been bringing youconversations with amazing
menopause experts for over twoyears now.
If you have missed any of thoseconversations, now's the time
to go back and listen, and youcan always share them with
anyone you think needs to hearthem.
This way, more people can findthese amazing conversations,
(00:25):
needs to hear them.
This way, more people can findthese amazing conversations.
Hi everybody, big, warm welcometo this week's episode of Dear
Menopause.
Louise Newson is joining mefrom the very early hours of a
wintry English day and she's gota little bit of a cold, so you
might hear that come through inher voice.
Hi Louise, how are you?
Louise (00:41):
Hi Sonya.
Well, other than my cold cold Iam fine.
Actually, I'm getting veryexcited about seeing you again
in real life.
Sonya (00:48):
I know what do we mean.
We're talking about the so HotRight Now event that is
happening in Sydney, and that'sthe big event on the Saturday at
the Sydney Opera House, and youalso have a number of kind of
satellite events happeningaround that as well.
We've got a big lunch on Fridayand then there's a big medical
conference on the Sunday as well.
We've got a big lunch on Fridayand then there's a big medical
conference on the Sunday as well.
So it's a jam packed weekend,something for everyone and such
(01:10):
an amazing event to be able toreally make available to the
Australian women and Australiancommunity.
It's going to be a blast andI'm so excited to get to see you
again.
Yeah yeah.
Louise (01:22):
No, it's great, it's.
Things have really moved on,though since I was last in
Australia, I feel like you knowwe're all behind.
We're all behind to how we were22 years ago, actually, with
hormones and awareness andknowledge, but actually I think
Australia is really waking up tothe fact that we need to be
talking about it.
We need to be thinking about it.
(01:43):
We need to be thinking about it.
We need to be thinking about itas individuals, as healthcare
professionals, as policymakersand just as anybody who knows
anybody, because we also need tobe thinking about future health
as well, and that's somethingthat's been ignored so much.
So I just love what's happeningover in your country actually.
Sonya (01:59):
I know I did a deep dive into my calendar actually and
had a quick look at when youwere actually here last and it
was October 2023.
So we're talking 15, 16 monthsago now and we absolutely have
had such a shift here inAustralia when it comes to the
conversation, the places theconversations are now being held
.
We've had the Senate inquiry,obviously, which you
(02:21):
participated in on one of theevidence days, and we find
ourselves weeks away from Iwould hazard a guess, is
probably the biggest eventthat's ever been held in
Australia.
Louise (02:31):
That is just about perimenopause and menopause yeah
, I might sneak in a little bitabout hormones at other times,
but totally, I mean, who wouldhave thought when the Sydney
Opera House was being built allthose years ago that they would
actually allow an event likethis?
Brilliant, yeah, it's great.
Sonya (02:49):
Now, louise, one of the things that anybody that knows
you, anybody that follows you,anybody that listens to you on
different podcasts in your ownwork, really should be aware of
your incredible passion forimproving healthcare for women,
and, as you know you touched onjust a couple of minutes ago,
it's not just about the hormones, and it's not just about
perimenopause and menopause.
It's also about longevity andlong term health as well.
(03:10):
So would you perhaps be able togive me a quick soundbite of
what Louise Newsom does foranyone that's listening that
perhaps hasn't come across yourwork before?
Louise (03:19):
Yeah, I think probably it's useful just to say a bit
about my background, because Idon't have a conventional
background.
I mean, everyone's story isdifferent, isn't it?
Everyone's career is different.
But I actually, as part of mymedical training, I took a year
out and did a pathology degree,so a study of disease BSc.
I got a first class honoursdegree from it and that really
sparked my interest in about thestudy of diseases why do they
(03:42):
happen, what goes wrong in thebody, and a molecular you know,
really looking at thoseindividual cells, what happens.
Anyway, I did that.
Then I wanted to do cancermedicine, so I did a lot of
hospital medicine.
I'm a member of the RoyalCollege of Physicians.
I did lots of differentspecialties and then I went into
general practice, but I wentpart time because I've got three
daughters and my husband's asurgeon and I wanted to see them
(04:04):
, watch them, help them grow up.
So I was a medical writer andI'm very interested in
evidence-based medicine.
I've written four books for GPsabout evidence-based medicine,
summarising guidelines,summarising key papers, articles
, so they could read them veryquickly, the summaries, rather
than having to go into deep dive.
And I've done that for 25 yearsactually, and so I guess one of
(04:28):
my skills not just being adoctor is being able to unpick
evidence and read papers in away that's very critical, very
analytical, but to translatethem.
So the average not anyone'saverage, of course, but the
average sort of person thatwants short sentences, two
syllables, can just like read.
So I've done that for manyyears.
I had no training aboutmenopause as an undergraduate or
(04:50):
postgraduate, I think.
When I was doing gynecology Iwas told a few hot flushes,
something women just experienced.
That was it.
But because of my sort ofacademic brain, I've been sort
of thinking and joining the dotsfor many years, thinking hang
on, what goes wrong in the body?
What happens?
(05:10):
What do these hormones do?
It's like all we've heard ishormones equals breast cancer
and it's like hang on, hormonesare something that are just
chemicals that are natural inour body and they are chemical
messengers and they goeverywhere in our body and we've
got lots and lots of hormones.
So the ones that we're reallytalking about are just three
estradiol, progesterone,testosterone.
So then, when you unpick thebasics and say well, they work
in various ways.
They work on every cell in ourbody.
(05:30):
They reduce inflammation, theykeep our heart, our lungs, our
kidney, our bowel, especiallyour brain, really healthy.
So hang on, what happens inmenopause?
We don't have those hormones,the levels are low and stay low
forever.
So I'm coming at it thinking itis a multi-system disorder.
That is a real priority tounderstand because we live so
(05:51):
much longer as women.
And this whole sort of healthspan versus lifespan I'm very
interested in.
You know, it's not the age wedie, it's a journey to that age.
And we know women live in poorhealth, often for the last 10
years of their life.
There's lots of reasons forthat, but one of the reasons, of
course we know women live inpoor health, often for the last
10 years of their life, andthere's lots of reasons for that
.
But one of the reasons, ofcourse we know, is because they
don't have hormones, so theyhave an increased risk of
osteoporosis, heart disease,dementia, diabetes, inflammatory
(06:14):
conditions and so forth.
So as soon as I sort of joinedthe dots and realised, and then
realised there's a massivedifference between our natural
hormones and synthetic hormonesthat we've been giving women for
years and we still do, ascontraception.
They're very different in thebody, they work very differently
in the body and so when yourealize all this.
It's like well, I want to sharethis knowledge, I want to enable
(06:35):
people to make decisions thatare right for them, and so it's
very, it's a lot easier now,isn't it, to be able to share,
you know, through podcasts,through?
You know?
I've written books on menopause, but they don't have the reach
that other platforms do, and alot of my work is about sharing
information and knowledgebecause I've been a medical
writer for so long.
(06:55):
But it's also driven by theinjustice, actually, of women
being unable to receiveevidence-based treatment, and I
know it's the same in Australiathan it is in UK.
But it's actually easier to getantidepressants than it is to
get HRT, and that's fine ifthat's what people want and need
.
But every day I'm hearingstories of women that don't
actually need antidepressantsbecause they're not clinically
(07:17):
depressed and they don't wantthem either.
So this is what sort of drivesme to get off in the morning
thinking about these women whoaren't as fortunate as me, who
haven't been able to see ahealthcare provider who
understands what they want andneed.
That's quite a long answer, butanyway, hopefully that gives
you a bit of an idea.
Sonya (07:35):
Absolutely, that's a great real insight into what
brought you to where you aretoday it was also your personal
experience as you startedtransitioning through
perimenopause and menopause aswell, that really kind of
cemented for you that there wasthis huge knowledge gap and
support gap.
And one of the other thingsthat I'd like to highlight that
I think that you have done suchan incredible job at and that is
(07:56):
really bringing togetherglobally doctors and specialists
and GPs to really open up thisconversation for everybody.
I think about Australia as anexample, and I think about some
of the incredible local GPs thatwe have that are now starting
to do such amazing work Dr EmmaHarvey, dr Kerry Cashel, drita
(08:18):
Shalva.
We've got Dr Joe Bruce.
I know that none of these GPspotentially would have connected
in the same way without you,yeah, and I love that.
Louise (08:27):
You know people connect me, connect with me all all the
time.
Actually, it's often to askadvice.
You know, I've seen thispatient, what do you think?
And obviously I've got a hugeamount of clinical knowledge and
experience that I didn't have,you know, know, 10, 20 years ago
.
I would never have had anyconversations 20 years ago
because I didn't know the myriadof symptoms I didn't understand
.
And it's really interesting,isn't it, when you're being
(08:48):
given information that youdidn't grow up with, whether
you're a healthcare professionalor anybody.
And it goes two ways, doesn'tit?
Either people embrace that newknowledge and go gosh, I want to
find out more.
Is this person right?
Really, I didn't know that, wow, and they go back and read and
work for themselves.
Or there's this resistancewhere they know that she can't
be right.
She can't be right.
And that's not just in thisconversation, that's anything in
(09:10):
life.
And it's that rigidity ofthinking, that sort of willful
blindness that's still going on,that I find quite interesting.
Actually, it's about justpersonalities, it's about human
nature.
Yesterday I was down at theHouses of Parliament roundtable
group talking about osteoporosisand there are a few people
(09:31):
there who I'd spoken to aboutfive years ago who told me quite
clearly, to my face that it wasmy opinion that hormones were
good to for bone strength, butit wasn't their opinion, so they
wouldn't put it on theirplatform or whatever their
website.
And I said, well, it's not myopinion, this is evidence, this
is just basic knowledge.
And they said no.
And I was looking at the emails.
(09:51):
I still got them when they werepushing back five years ago.
And then yesterday I gave ashort presentation about the
importance of hormones, bearingin mind one in two women have
osteoporosis, and no one pushedback.
They said, yeah, no, this isreally important, we need to get
this message out.
I said, gosh, isn't itinteresting?
But this is just human nature,isn't it?
And I think that's what's reallyinteresting, but difficult as
(10:12):
well, because some people arevery quick for change and other
people aren't, and then thatmakes it really confusing for
people as well.
And there's nothing that youknow.
We can never know everythingabout every disease, every
condition.
You know, we're learning allthe time and we don't get things
100% right.
As doctors, we shareuncertainty with patients, but I
(10:33):
think what's happened for fartoo long is it's been a no.
Hrt is so dangerous, let's noteven talk about it, and that's
because of thismisinterpretation.
Of course, as you know, the WHIthe Women's Health Initiative
study from decades ago.
But that was decades ago, sonia, it wasn't yesterday.
We've had a long time to unpickthe evidence, but whenever I go
to conferences, they're stilltalking about that study and
(10:54):
it's affecting the way women canaccess hormones.
Sonya (10:57):
Yeah, and it's such a shame.
It's such a shame that, as yousaid, we've been talking about
this for such a long time andwe've been talking about the WHI
for such a long time, and it isso frustrating on so many
levels that we have to keeptalking about it and we can't
seem to get over this hurdle andcreate the change.
And yeah, you really make sucha good point about how everybody
does come to their decisionabout what's right for them over
(11:20):
different periods of time.
Some people are very quickadapters and they'll take
something new and they'll, youknow, be super curious of mind
and they'll run off, like yousaid, and do their own research
and they'll decide what's rightfor them.
But there are others that aremuch more resistant to a quick
change.
And, yeah, and it's finding, Isuppose, a balance between those
two, as somebody that is tryingto make such a difference and
(11:42):
to educate, that at times thatmust be, you know, a fine line
that you have to walk.
Louise (11:47):
Yeah, absolutely, but I think you know I don't really
like seeing my faces, but I'mquite clever.
I know a little bit, but I knowthe science.
You know I used to work atBirmingham University and teach
a graduate entry student, sothese are people that have
already got a degree and thenthey go into medicine and a lot
of them had physiology degrees,pharmacology degrees.
(12:10):
They were good scientists aswell.
It's quite intimidating whenyou're older and you're teaching
these people and it was verydiscussion-led-based learning
and that really challenged me.
And actually then I went backto my undergraduate texts.
I went back to my pathologynotes for my degree, but with
the knowledge now of what it'slike to actually have those
diseases, because when you'reyoung you don't know what it's
(12:31):
like to have diabetes.
And I think this is what'sjoining the dots is really
important.
Is this translational research.
You know I've had academicpapers published.
They haven't actually helpedanyone.
They're just interestinglaboratory type research,
whereas actually what you wantto do is combine any scientific
papers with real life data aswell, because what I want to do
(12:52):
is help that woman in front ofme.
I don't want to say to her well, we haven't got that study,
let's come back in 20 years timewhen we've got, you know, this
really big study that might ormight not be funded, bearing in
mind we've got, you know, thisreally big study that might or
might not be funded, bearing inmind this women's health.
You know it's actually well, no,let's just unpick what we've
got and then it's really easyactually with hormones, because
all you do is work out how theywork in our body, because it's
not like I'm giving a drug.
(13:13):
You know, if I was giving anantidepressant.
There's a big debate aboutSSRIs and serotonin and how they
work, and I can understand.
It's very complicated, but allI'm doing.
We were so lucky and you haveas well in Australia these
they're just the naturalhormones you replace like with
like.
So they're actually not reallydrugs, they're not paracetamol,
they're just hormones.
(13:33):
And so if you think, well, whatam I doing?
What are the risks, what arethe side effects, what are the
problems or what are thebenefits, we'll just go back and
see how they work in the bodyand then it all fits into place
really yeah, it's such a goodpoint, isn't it?
Sonya (13:45):
because there is so much pushback about this whole over
medicating that if, if it's justa replacement of what we
naturally have with a product,that it is a natural product.
It's not a, it's not an overmedication.
Louise (13:57):
It's not a medication to begin with and we don't talk
about over medication of raisedblood pressure, and raised blood
pressure doesn't usually causeit yeah, but but if you think, I
think raised blood pressure isa really good analogy, because
most people don't have symptomswhen they've got raised blood
pressure, and we know most womenhave menopausal symptoms, so
it's something that's usuallyasymptomatic hypertension, but
we treat people to lower theirnumbers, to reduce their risk of
(14:21):
a heart attack.
Now we've got good data thatwomen who take hormones have a
lower risk of a heart attack, infact lower than if they were a
had raised blood pressure,reduced their blood pressure
with antihypertensive medication.
So even it.
And and then you know, talkabout osteoporosis as well.
So even if you were only in ininverted commas, giving hormones
to improve future health,that's not a bad thing.
(14:42):
We don't say, oh, you'reover-medicalized because you're
on lisinopril for your bloodpressure.
You say, oh, that's really good, my blood pressure's come down,
my risk is reduced.
And then the other discussionabout this over-medicalization
is hang on.
Most women I see in my clinicare on antidepressants, they're
on painkillers.
Sometimes they're on sleepingtablets.
Increasingly they're onantipsychotics, you know.
They're on statins, they're onblood pressure lowering trap.
(15:04):
So we deprescribe quite a lotwhen they're better because they
don't need these medicationsyeah, yeah.
Sonya (15:11):
It's a fascinating and frustrating kind of conversation
that keeps unraveling as aresult of shining a light and
rate and change, trying toreally bring a more positive
narrative into just what shouldreally be a no-brainer for so
many women.
Louise (15:26):
Yeah, totally but I think we're getting there and I
think what's also easy is thatpeople can access medical
literature in the way that theycouldn't before.
You know, 20, 30 years ago youhad to go to an academic library
at a university, you had to goand find the original paper.
You had to go to an academiclibrary at a university, you had
to go and find the originalpaper, you had to go and read it
, whereas now you've got PubMedand a lot of articles now are
free, open access, so it's notjust the abstract, you can read
(15:49):
the whole article.
For example, the article thatwe have published in a peer
reviewed journal about oestrogendosing.
You know some women need higherdosing for adequate absorption.
That's a freely available, openaccess academic paper.
So I can share the link youclick on.
You read it as a non-healthcareprofessional, whereas 30 years
ago, when I was starting to domore writing and evidence-based
(16:10):
medicine, there was no way youcould access, as a
non-healthcare professional,that sort of information.
Yeah, and I think that's reallygood.
I don't see why, a doctor, Ineed to know different things to
you as a non-healthcareprofessional, because I don't
know what it's like to be you,sonia, I don't know what it's
like to have any conditionsyou've had in the past.
I don't know what yourmenopause is like.
I can guess because you cantell me, but I have no idea, so
(16:33):
I can't make decisions for you.
I can just support yourdecision and listen to you and
we can come to a conclusiontogether.
You, I can just support yourdecision and listen to you and
we can come to a conclusiontogether.
And that's where medicine'sreally changed, because you know
it used to be verypaternalistic.
You do this, you do that.
I am the doctor, don't arguewith me and it's great, you know
, yeah, yeah, of informationtotally, and I am a doctor and a
patient, you know, and I thinkso I can see it from both sides,
(16:57):
um, but it's really importantto be involved in decision
making.
Sonya (17:01):
Absolutely.
I'm a huge advocate for patientled decision making and
conversations and I had somebodyreach out to me the other day
in the menopause and cancercommunity who was feeling really
frustrated.
She was here in Australia andshe'd done a lot of her own
research, had made a decisionthat she wanted to try taking
HRT.
She knew what her risks werebut she was getting a hard no
(17:24):
every time she had theconversation with her doctor and
that's such a frustratingposition for someone to be in.
Nobody should ever get a hardno about anything without some
type of conversation.
Louise (17:37):
I think so because I think the thing is it's like you
say, it's about individualchoice and knowledge, weighing
up any risks and benefits.
And you know, I had a ladyrecently who's one of my well,
she was a patient and I saw herseven years ago optimized her
hormones.
She's doing very well.
She gets her HRT from her NHSGP.
So I haven't seen her for years.
(17:58):
And then she emailed me a fewweeks ago and she said Louise,
I'm really struggling.
They've reduced my dose and nowI've got pins and needles, I've
got pain, I can't walk very welland it's a real problem because
I look after my husband withdementia and they've said I
can't have any other dosebecause I will get, will not,
might, will get cancer of thewomb.
And they've had a group meetingat the practice and they've
(18:19):
said who's going to look afteryour husband when you die from
endometrial cancer?
Now this lady has had normalscans, she's had no bleeding.
Oh my goodness.
I know she can't afford to cometo the clinic and she shouldn't
and I just thought, hang on,even if, worst case scenario,
she had endometrial cancer.
It's up to her to decide.
And actually, her risk of notwalking, her risk of
osteoporosis, heart disease andeverything else will increase
(18:41):
without her adequate dose ofhormones.
So I think you know, as doctorswe are not God.
We cannot control patients.
You know I don't judge peopledifferently because they smoke.
I like to inform patients andpeople that smoking is not good
for you, but I'm not going tojudge anyone differently.
Or, you know, talk to them in adifferent way to treat them
(19:02):
precisely, you just don't do it.
That's one of the first things Idid, and I've been doing a lot
of work last year in areas ofdeprivation.
I've been going to quite a fewprisons as well.
Um, because I used to work in aprison and I didn't know
anything about hormones and nowI do.
I've sort of gone back and seeall these poor women.
Yeah, they've got earlymenopause because they've had
drug abuse, they've had, youknow, very chaotic lives and the
(19:24):
ovaries often switch off toprotect themselves.
So they're getting these myriadof symptoms.
Some of the life is obviously amenopausal because they're
older, because they're older?
Sonya (19:31):
yeah, they're not getting any hormones.
Louise (19:32):
They're just unable to access it at all and they're
they're chaotic sort oflifestyle.
Their symptoms, especially their, their mental health symptoms,
are just blamed for their pastlife and their trauma and their
this and that and it's like,hang on, guys, these people are
menopausal as well, but there'sthis sort of blinker.
So it's you know, it affectseverybody.
It's not just whitemiddle-class women who just have
(19:55):
a few little symptoms and theywant to feel really well.
It's not that and that'ssometimes how it's perceived and
it shouldn't be, because mostpeople die from heart disease
and dementia.
Anything that we can do toreduce that risk and keep
healthy as women but also stayin the workplace like if I
wasn't taking HRT, there's noway I would be working as a
doctor because my brain justwent.
(20:15):
I couldn't remember anything?
Sonya (20:16):
yeah, no, well, I'd be the same.
I have to say, I don't believethat I would have the capacity
to produce and edit my ownpodcast and have these amazing
conversations that I'm so luckyto be able to have.
If you know, I wasn't onhormones and it wasn't allowing
me that clarity of mind, theenergy that I need yet to be
able to and to be able tomultitask again, which I lost
(20:37):
for a while oh, it's so hard.
Louise (20:39):
It's so hard you don't know until you've been there.
But the other thing, like youknow, I have to say to people
and I'm sure I said to you,sonia, when I met you it's a
reversible decision.
So if you were taking hormonesand your dose was optimized and
you worried every day or youdidn't feel right, well, you
just stop them.
Yeah, no one's coming.
I like I don't go around topeople's houses and put their
patches on twice a week.
Sonya (21:00):
I don't force them to take hormones, yeah, and then,
just ever since you said that tome and I do, I remember that so
clearly because it was such asimple but important light bulb
moment for me I've had that sameconversation with so many
people that have said to me youknow, oh, but you know what?
If it doesn't work, I'm likestop taking it, it's really,
really well.
Louise (21:19):
This is the thing I think people think.
It like lasts in the bodyforever and once you're on it,
you've got to stay on it andit's.
You know, if I and in fact wewere in Croatia on a holiday in
the summer and I changed mypatches obviously twice a week,
and it was on a Thursday we'dgone to a art gallery and then
we're sitting having lunch, andthen in the evening we're having
like a supper and the childrengo.
(21:40):
What's wrong with you, mummy?
You're really irritable and Iwas like, oh, I don't know,
maybe it's the heat or whatever,but I was just feeling just not
quite right and I was getting abit of joint stiffness.
And then I'm feeling my back'slike, oh, now I didn't put my
patches on and it's amazing howquickly they can work out of
your system because the system.
The half-life is so short, um,and that is a, you know it's a
good and a bad thing.
(22:01):
It's reassuring to those peopleto know.
I mean, I don't give implants,so implants will last in the
body for a long time, yeah, butif you have it through the skin,
you can stuff at any time and Ithink that's really important
for people to know absolutely100 louise.
Sonya (22:15):
We are so excited to be able to welcome you back to
thank you.
A warm and sunny australiawhere there are no signs of
winter colds good, bring it on.
And rebecca's coming back withyou as well, which is great,
fantastic.
And yeah, what are you mostexcited about?
I mean, how do you feel aboutthe fact that you're going to be
(22:35):
, you know, speaking in theopera house?
Louise (22:38):
well, do you know what?
I sort of live in a parallelworld, because I don't think any
of this is happening to me,because that's the only way I
can cope, and that's like yeah,I am.
I'm very weird in my mind.
So anything good and anythingbad, I don't think it's
happening to me.
It's like I've got thisidentical twin that I look after
and nurture and encourage, butit's not me and and and it's.
(22:59):
I think people don't understandthat really, I'm, I feel very
privileged that I can come andshare my knowledge and
experience.
I'm not coming thinking, wow,this is me, I'm going on the
stage.
It's not about that, it's I.
This is where I'm quiteconflicted and I think people
don't understand.
I'm looking forward actually toseeing the energy from people.
I'm looking forward to justseeing this connection that you
(23:19):
might know.
I did this theatre tour beforeChristmas.
Sonya (23:22):
I went to 34 different theatres.
Yeah.
Louise (23:25):
And my mother was an actress actually and I thought,
god, I never go on the stageLike actually.
And I thought, god, I never goon the stage like what am I
doing?
But actually there's nothingbetter than a real audience to
really feel that, not just thelove, but the connection.
You know this, this sort ofjoining of people, even just
hearing people in the intervallike women after us were talking
to go oh, I've met this personand she bought me a drink and
(23:45):
now we've shared emails andwe're going to set up this group
and it's like bringing on thisis what.
So that's what I'm lookingforward to more than anything
really.
Um so, and also, you know, yourcountry's lovely.
I mean, I'm going to Perth andMelbourne as well.
So I'm doing an academicconference in Perth for
urologists, so I'm lookingforward to converting them into
(24:06):
thinking about hormones as wellwhen we think about recurrent
newly trapped infections, and myhusband's a urologist, so he's
a bit annoyed actually, becauseI'm going to see some of his
friends and colleagues.
Sonya (24:15):
But you know, too bad.
And we have the wonderful DrKelly Casperson coming out, who
is also a urologist Kelly'samazing yeah.
So you know I really love thattake of um from you, that you
know what you're most lookingforward to is just that energy
and I must admit I I feel verymuch the same.
You know I'm lucky enough tohave been to the opera house and
countless times to attenddifferent things.
(24:37):
Uh, yeah, to be in a room withover 2000 um, you know I would
imagine predominantly women, um,assigned female at birth it is.
It is going to be an absolutejoy yeah, no, I mean, it's such
a privilege.
Louise (24:52):
It's a one-in-a-lifetime experience, isn't it?
But um, yeah, no, it'd be good.
I'm looking forward to it,definitely, and I'm looking
forward to the heat too.
Yeah, a bit of warmth, yeahexcellent.
Sonya (25:03):
Louise.
Thank you so much for your timetoday, and I am very much
looking forward to um huggingyou when we get to meet again in
Sydney.
Welcome to the Dear Menopause podcast.
I'm Sonya Lovell, your host Now.
I've been bringing youconversations with amazing
menopause experts for over twoyears now.
If you have missed any of thoseconversations, now's the time
to go back and listen, and youcan always share them with
anyone you think needs to hearthem.
This way, more people can findthese amazing conversations,
(00:25):
needs to hear them.
This way, more people can findthese amazing conversations.
Hi everybody, big, warm welcometo this week's episode of Dear
Menopause.
Louise Newson is joining mefrom the very early hours of a
wintry English day and she's gota little bit of a cold, so you
might hear that come through inher voice.
Hi Louise, how are you?
Louise (00:41):
Hi Sonya.
Well, other than my cold cold Iam fine.
Actually, I'm getting veryexcited about seeing you again
in real life.
Sonya (00:48):
I know what do we mean.
We're talking about the so HotRight Now event that is
happening in Sydney, and that'sthe big event on the Saturday at
the Sydney Opera House, and youalso have a number of kind of
satellite events happeningaround that as well.
We've got a big lunch on Fridayand then there's a big medical
conference on the Sunday as well.
We've got a big lunch on Fridayand then there's a big medical
conference on the Sunday as well.
So it's a jam packed weekend,something for everyone and such
(01:10):
an amazing event to be able toreally make available to the
Australian women and Australiancommunity.
It's going to be a blast andI'm so excited to get to see you
again.
Yeah yeah.
Louise (01:22):
No, it's great, it's.
Things have really moved on,though since I was last in
Australia, I feel like you knowwe're all behind.
We're all behind to how we were22 years ago, actually, with
hormones and awareness andknowledge, but actually I think
Australia is really waking up tothe fact that we need to be
talking about it.
We need to be thinking about it.
(01:43):
We need to be thinking about it.
We need to be thinking about itas individuals, as healthcare
professionals, as policymakersand just as anybody who knows
anybody, because we also need tobe thinking about future health
as well, and that's somethingthat's been ignored so much.
So I just love what's happeningover in your country actually.
Sonya (01:59):
I know I did a deep dive into my calendar actually and
had a quick look at when youwere actually here last and it
was October 2023.
So we're talking 15, 16 monthsago now and we absolutely have
had such a shift here inAustralia when it comes to the
conversation, the places theconversations are now being held
.
We've had the Senate inquiry,obviously, which you
(02:21):
participated in on one of theevidence days, and we find
ourselves weeks away from Iwould hazard a guess, is
probably the biggest eventthat's ever been held in
Australia.
Louise (02:31):
That is just about perimenopause and menopause yeah
, I might sneak in a little bitabout hormones at other times,
but totally, I mean, who wouldhave thought when the Sydney
Opera House was being built allthose years ago that they would
actually allow an event likethis?
Brilliant, yeah, it's great.
Sonya (02:49):
Now, louise, one of the things that anybody that knows
you, anybody that follows you,anybody that listens to you on
different podcasts in your ownwork, really should be aware of
your incredible passion forimproving healthcare for women,
and, as you know you touched onjust a couple of minutes ago,
it's not just about the hormones, and it's not just about
perimenopause and menopause.
It's also about longevity andlong term health as well.
(03:10):
So would you perhaps be able togive me a quick soundbite of
what Louise Newsom does foranyone that's listening that
perhaps hasn't come across yourwork before?
Louise (03:19):
Yeah, I think probably it's useful just to say a bit
about my background, because Idon't have a conventional
background.
I mean, everyone's story isdifferent, isn't it?
Everyone's career is different.
But I actually, as part of mymedical training, I took a year
out and did a pathology degree,so a study of disease BSc.
I got a first class honoursdegree from it and that really
sparked my interest in about thestudy of diseases why do they
(03:42):
happen, what goes wrong in thebody, and a molecular you know,
really looking at thoseindividual cells, what happens.
Anyway, I did that.
Then I wanted to do cancermedicine, so I did a lot of
hospital medicine.
I'm a member of the RoyalCollege of Physicians.
I did lots of differentspecialties and then I went into
general practice, but I wentpart time because I've got three
daughters and my husband's asurgeon and I wanted to see them
(04:04):
, watch them, help them grow up.
So I was a medical writer andI'm very interested in
evidence-based medicine.
I've written four books for GPsabout evidence-based medicine,
summarising guidelines,summarising key papers, articles
, so they could read them veryquickly, the summaries, rather
than having to go into deep dive.
And I've done that for 25 yearsactually, and so I guess one of
(04:28):
my skills not just being adoctor is being able to unpick
evidence and read papers in away that's very critical, very
analytical, but to translatethem.
So the average not anyone'saverage, of course, but the
average sort of person thatwants short sentences, two
syllables, can just like read.
So I've done that for manyyears.
I had no training aboutmenopause as an undergraduate or
(04:50):
postgraduate, I think.
When I was doing gynecology Iwas told a few hot flushes,
something women just experienced.
That was it.
But because of my sort ofacademic brain, I've been sort
of thinking and joining the dotsfor many years, thinking hang
on, what goes wrong in the body?
What happens?
(05:10):
What do these hormones do?
It's like all we've heard ishormones equals breast cancer
and it's like hang on, hormonesare something that are just
chemicals that are natural inour body and they are chemical
messengers and they goeverywhere in our body and we've
got lots and lots of hormones.
So the ones that we're reallytalking about are just three
estradiol, progesterone,testosterone.
So then, when you unpick thebasics and say well, they work
in various ways.
They work on every cell in ourbody.
(05:30):
They reduce inflammation, theykeep our heart, our lungs, our
kidney, our bowel, especiallyour brain, really healthy.
So hang on, what happens inmenopause?
We don't have those hormones,the levels are low and stay low
forever.
So I'm coming at it thinking itis a multi-system disorder.
That is a real priority tounderstand because we live so
(05:51):
much longer as women.
And this whole sort of healthspan versus lifespan I'm very
interested in.
You know, it's not the age wedie, it's a journey to that age.
And we know women live in poorhealth, often for the last 10
years of their life.
There's lots of reasons forthat, but one of the reasons, of
course we know women live inpoor health, often for the last
10 years of their life, andthere's lots of reasons for that
.
But one of the reasons, ofcourse we know, is because they
don't have hormones, so theyhave an increased risk of
osteoporosis, heart disease,dementia, diabetes, inflammatory
(06:14):
conditions and so forth.
So as soon as I sort of joinedthe dots and realised, and then
realised there's a massivedifference between our natural
hormones and synthetic hormonesthat we've been giving women for
years and we still do, ascontraception.
They're very different in thebody, they work very differently
in the body and so when yourealize all this.
It's like well, I want to sharethis knowledge, I want to enable
(06:35):
people to make decisions thatare right for them, and so it's
very, it's a lot easier now,isn't it, to be able to share,
you know, through podcasts,through?
You know?
I've written books on menopause, but they don't have the reach
that other platforms do, and alot of my work is about sharing
information and knowledgebecause I've been a medical
writer for so long.
(06:55):
But it's also driven by theinjustice, actually, of women
being unable to receiveevidence-based treatment, and I
know it's the same in Australiathan it is in UK.
But it's actually easier to getantidepressants than it is to
get HRT, and that's fine ifthat's what people want and need
.
But every day I'm hearingstories of women that don't
actually need antidepressantsbecause they're not clinically
(07:17):
depressed and they don't wantthem either.
So this is what sort of drivesme to get off in the morning
thinking about these women whoaren't as fortunate as me, who
haven't been able to see ahealthcare provider who
understands what they want andneed.
That's quite a long answer, butanyway, hopefully that gives
you a bit of an idea.
Sonya (07:35):
Absolutely, that's a great real insight into what
brought you to where you aretoday it was also your personal
experience as you startedtransitioning through
perimenopause and menopause aswell, that really kind of
cemented for you that there wasthis huge knowledge gap and
support gap.
And one of the other thingsthat I'd like to highlight that
I think that you have done suchan incredible job at and that is
(07:56):
really bringing togetherglobally doctors and specialists
and GPs to really open up thisconversation for everybody.
I think about Australia as anexample, and I think about some
of the incredible local GPs thatwe have that are now starting
to do such amazing work Dr EmmaHarvey, dr Kerry Cashel, drita
(08:18):
Shalva.
We've got Dr Joe Bruce.
I know that none of these GPspotentially would have connected
in the same way without you,yeah, and I love that.
Louise (08:27):
You know people connect me, connect with me all all the
time.
Actually, it's often to askadvice.
You know, I've seen thispatient, what do you think?
And obviously I've got a hugeamount of clinical knowledge and
experience that I didn't have,you know, know, 10, 20 years ago
.
I would never have had anyconversations 20 years ago
because I didn't know the myriadof symptoms I didn't understand
.
And it's really interesting,isn't it, when you're being
(08:48):
given information that youdidn't grow up with, whether
you're a healthcare professionalor anybody.
And it goes two ways, doesn'tit?
Either people embrace that newknowledge and go gosh, I want to
find out more.
Is this person right?
Really, I didn't know that, wow, and they go back and read and
work for themselves.
Or there's this resistancewhere they know that she can't
be right.
She can't be right.
And that's not just in thisconversation, that's anything in
(09:10):
life.
And it's that rigidity ofthinking, that sort of willful
blindness that's still going on,that I find quite interesting.
Actually, it's about justpersonalities, it's about human
nature.
Yesterday I was down at theHouses of Parliament roundtable
group talking about osteoporosisand there are a few people
(09:31):
there who I'd spoken to aboutfive years ago who told me quite
clearly, to my face that it wasmy opinion that hormones were
good to for bone strength, butit wasn't their opinion, so they
wouldn't put it on theirplatform or whatever their
website.
And I said, well, it's not myopinion, this is evidence, this
is just basic knowledge.
And they said no.
And I was looking at the emails.
(09:51):
I still got them when they werepushing back five years ago.
And then yesterday I gave ashort presentation about the
importance of hormones, bearingin mind one in two women have
osteoporosis, and no one pushedback.
They said, yeah, no, this isreally important, we need to get
this message out.
I said, gosh, isn't itinteresting?
But this is just human nature,isn't it?
And I think that's what's reallyinteresting, but difficult as
(10:12):
well, because some people arevery quick for change and other
people aren't, and then thatmakes it really confusing for
people as well.
And there's nothing that youknow.
We can never know everythingabout every disease, every
condition.
You know, we're learning allthe time and we don't get things
100% right.
As doctors, we shareuncertainty with patients, but I
(10:33):
think what's happened for fartoo long is it's been a no.
Hrt is so dangerous, let's noteven talk about it, and that's
because of thismisinterpretation.
Of course, as you know, the WHIthe Women's Health Initiative
study from decades ago.
But that was decades ago, sonia, it wasn't yesterday.
We've had a long time to unpickthe evidence, but whenever I go
to conferences, they're stilltalking about that study and
(10:54):
it's affecting the way women canaccess hormones.
Sonya (10:57):
Yeah, and it's such a shame.
It's such a shame that, as yousaid, we've been talking about
this for such a long time andwe've been talking about the WHI
for such a long time, and it isso frustrating on so many
levels that we have to keeptalking about it and we can't
seem to get over this hurdle andcreate the change.
And yeah, you really make sucha good point about how everybody
does come to their decisionabout what's right for them over
(11:20):
different periods of time.
Some people are very quickadapters and they'll take
something new and they'll, youknow, be super curious of mind
and they'll run off, like yousaid, and do their own research
and they'll decide what's rightfor them.
But there are others that aremuch more resistant to a quick
change.
And, yeah, and it's finding, Isuppose, a balance between those
two, as somebody that is tryingto make such a difference and
(11:42):
to educate, that at times thatmust be, you know, a fine line
that you have to walk.
Louise (11:47):
Yeah, absolutely, but I think you know I don't really
like seeing my faces, but I'mquite clever.
I know a little bit, but I knowthe science.
You know I used to work atBirmingham University and teach
a graduate entry student, sothese are people that have
already got a degree and thenthey go into medicine and a lot
of them had physiology degrees,pharmacology degrees.
(12:10):
They were good scientists aswell.
It's quite intimidating whenyou're older and you're teaching
these people and it was verydiscussion-led-based learning
and that really challenged me.
And actually then I went backto my undergraduate texts.
I went back to my pathologynotes for my degree, but with
the knowledge now of what it'slike to actually have those
diseases, because when you'reyoung you don't know what it's
(12:31):
like to have diabetes.
And I think this is what'sjoining the dots is really
important.
Is this translational research.
You know I've had academicpapers published.
They haven't actually helpedanyone.
They're just interestinglaboratory type research,
whereas actually what you wantto do is combine any scientific
papers with real life data aswell, because what I want to do
(12:52):
is help that woman in front ofme.
I don't want to say to her well, we haven't got that study,
let's come back in 20 years timewhen we've got, you know, this
really big study that might ormight not be funded, bearing in
mind we've got, you know, thisreally big study that might or
might not be funded, bearing inmind this women's health.
You know it's actually well, no,let's just unpick what we've
got and then it's really easyactually with hormones, because
all you do is work out how theywork in our body, because it's
not like I'm giving a drug.
(13:13):
You know, if I was giving anantidepressant.
There's a big debate aboutSSRIs and serotonin and how they
work, and I can understand.
It's very complicated, but allI'm doing.
We were so lucky and you haveas well in Australia these
they're just the naturalhormones you replace like with
like.
So they're actually not reallydrugs, they're not paracetamol,
they're just hormones.
(13:33):
And so if you think, well, whatam I doing?
What are the risks, what arethe side effects, what are the
problems or what are thebenefits, we'll just go back and
see how they work in the bodyand then it all fits into place
really yeah, it's such a goodpoint, isn't it?
Sonya (13:45):
because there is so much pushback about this whole over
medicating that if, if it's justa replacement of what we
naturally have with a product,that it is a natural product.
It's not a, it's not an overmedication.
Louise (13:57):
It's not a medication to begin with and we don't talk
about over medication of raisedblood pressure, and raised blood
pressure doesn't usually causeit yeah, but but if you think, I
think raised blood pressure isa really good analogy, because
most people don't have symptomswhen they've got raised blood
pressure, and we know most womenhave menopausal symptoms, so
it's something that's usuallyasymptomatic hypertension, but
we treat people to lower theirnumbers, to reduce their risk of
(14:21):
a heart attack.
Now we've got good data thatwomen who take hormones have a
lower risk of a heart attack, infact lower than if they were a
had raised blood pressure,reduced their blood pressure
with antihypertensive medication.
So even it.
And and then you know, talkabout osteoporosis as well.
So even if you were only in ininverted commas, giving hormones
to improve future health,that's not a bad thing.
(14:42):
We don't say, oh, you'reover-medicalized because you're
on lisinopril for your bloodpressure.
You say, oh, that's really good, my blood pressure's come down,
my risk is reduced.
And then the other discussionabout this over-medicalization
is hang on.
Most women I see in my clinicare on antidepressants, they're
on painkillers.
Sometimes they're on sleepingtablets.
Increasingly they're onantipsychotics, you know.
They're on statins, they're onblood pressure lowering trap.
(15:04):
So we deprescribe quite a lotwhen they're better because they
don't need these medicationsyeah, yeah.
Sonya (15:11):
It's a fascinating and frustrating kind of conversation
that keeps unraveling as aresult of shining a light and
rate and change, trying toreally bring a more positive
narrative into just what shouldreally be a no-brainer for so
many women.
Louise (15:26):
Yeah, totally but I think we're getting there and I
think what's also easy is thatpeople can access medical
literature in the way that theycouldn't before.
You know, 20, 30 years ago youhad to go to an academic library
at a university, you had to goand find the original paper.
You had to go to an academiclibrary at a university, you had
to go and find the originalpaper, you had to go and read it
, whereas now you've got PubMedand a lot of articles now are
free, open access, so it's notjust the abstract, you can read
(15:49):
the whole article.
For example, the article thatwe have published in a peer
reviewed journal about oestrogendosing.
You know some women need higherdosing for adequate absorption.
That's a freely available, openaccess academic paper.
So I can share the link youclick on.
You read it as a non-healthcareprofessional, whereas 30 years
ago, when I was starting to domore writing and evidence-based
(16:10):
medicine, there was no way youcould access, as a
non-healthcare professional,that sort of information.
Yeah, and I think that's reallygood.
I don't see why, a doctor, Ineed to know different things to
you as a non-healthcareprofessional, because I don't
know what it's like to be you,sonia, I don't know what it's
like to have any conditionsyou've had in the past.
I don't know what yourmenopause is like.
I can guess because you cantell me, but I have no idea, so
(16:33):
I can't make decisions for you.
I can just support yourdecision and listen to you and
we can come to a conclusiontogether.
You, I can just support yourdecision and listen to you and
we can come to a conclusiontogether.
And that's where medicine'sreally changed, because you know
it used to be verypaternalistic.
You do this, you do that.
I am the doctor, don't arguewith me and it's great, you know
, yeah, yeah, of informationtotally, and I am a doctor and a
patient, you know, and I thinkso I can see it from both sides,
(16:57):
um, but it's really importantto be involved in decision
making.
Sonya (17:01):
Absolutely.
I'm a huge advocate for patientled decision making and
conversations and I had somebodyreach out to me the other day
in the menopause and cancercommunity who was feeling really
frustrated.
She was here in Australia andshe'd done a lot of her own
research, had made a decisionthat she wanted to try taking
HRT.
She knew what her risks werebut she was getting a hard no
(17:24):
every time she had theconversation with her doctor and
that's such a frustratingposition for someone to be in.
Nobody should ever get a hardno about anything without some
type of conversation.
Louise (17:37):
I think so because I think the thing is it's like you
say, it's about individualchoice and knowledge, weighing
up any risks and benefits.
And you know, I had a ladyrecently who's one of my well,
she was a patient and I saw herseven years ago optimized her
hormones.
She's doing very well.
She gets her HRT from her NHSGP.
So I haven't seen her for years.
(17:58):
And then she emailed me a fewweeks ago and she said Louise,
I'm really struggling.
They've reduced my dose and nowI've got pins and needles, I've
got pain, I can't walk very welland it's a real problem because
I look after my husband withdementia and they've said I
can't have any other dosebecause I will get, will not,
might, will get cancer of thewomb.
And they've had a group meetingat the practice and they've
(18:19):
said who's going to look afteryour husband when you die from
endometrial cancer?
Now this lady has had normalscans, she's had no bleeding.
Oh my goodness.
I know she can't afford to cometo the clinic and she shouldn't
and I just thought, hang on,even if, worst case scenario,
she had endometrial cancer.
It's up to her to decide.
And actually, her risk of notwalking, her risk of
osteoporosis, heart disease andeverything else will increase
(18:41):
without her adequate dose ofhormones.
So I think you know, as doctorswe are not God.
We cannot control patients.
You know I don't judge peopledifferently because they smoke.
I like to inform patients andpeople that smoking is not good
for you, but I'm not going tojudge anyone differently.
Or, you know, talk to them in adifferent way to treat them
(19:02):
precisely, you just don't do it.
That's one of the first things Idid, and I've been doing a lot
of work last year in areas ofdeprivation.
I've been going to quite a fewprisons as well.
Um, because I used to work in aprison and I didn't know
anything about hormones and nowI do.
I've sort of gone back and seeall these poor women.
Yeah, they've got earlymenopause because they've had
drug abuse, they've had, youknow, very chaotic lives and the
(19:24):
ovaries often switch off toprotect themselves.
So they're getting these myriadof symptoms.
Some of the life is obviously amenopausal because they're
older, because they're older?
Sonya (19:31):
yeah, they're not getting any hormones.
Louise (19:32):
They're just unable to access it at all and they're
they're chaotic sort oflifestyle.
Their symptoms, especially their, their mental health symptoms,
are just blamed for their pastlife and their trauma and their
this and that and it's like,hang on, guys, these people are
menopausal as well, but there'sthis sort of blinker.
So it's you know, it affectseverybody.
It's not just whitemiddle-class women who just have
(19:55):
a few little symptoms and theywant to feel really well.
It's not that and that'ssometimes how it's perceived and
it shouldn't be, because mostpeople die from heart disease
and dementia.
Anything that we can do toreduce that risk and keep
healthy as women but also stayin the workplace like if I
wasn't taking HRT, there's noway I would be working as a
doctor because my brain justwent.
(20:15):
I couldn't remember anything?
Sonya (20:16):
yeah, no, well, I'd be the same.
I have to say, I don't believethat I would have the capacity
to produce and edit my ownpodcast and have these amazing
conversations that I'm so luckyto be able to have.
If you know, I wasn't onhormones and it wasn't allowing
me that clarity of mind, theenergy that I need yet to be
able to and to be able tomultitask again, which I lost
(20:37):
for a while oh, it's so hard.
Louise (20:39):
It's so hard you don't know until you've been there.
But the other thing, like youknow, I have to say to people
and I'm sure I said to you,sonia, when I met you it's a
reversible decision.
So if you were taking hormonesand your dose was optimized and
you worried every day or youdidn't feel right, well, you
just stop them.
Yeah, no one's coming.
I like I don't go around topeople's houses and put their
patches on twice a week.
Sonya (21:00):
I don't force them to take hormones, yeah, and then,
just ever since you said that tome and I do, I remember that so
clearly because it was such asimple but important light bulb
moment for me I've had that sameconversation with so many
people that have said to me youknow, oh, but you know what?
If it doesn't work, I'm likestop taking it, it's really,
really well.
Louise (21:19):
This is the thing I think people think.
It like lasts in the bodyforever and once you're on it,
you've got to stay on it andit's.
You know, if I and in fact wewere in Croatia on a holiday in
the summer and I changed mypatches obviously twice a week,
and it was on a Thursday we'dgone to a art gallery and then
we're sitting having lunch, andthen in the evening we're having
like a supper and the childrengo.
(21:40):
What's wrong with you, mummy?
You're really irritable and Iwas like, oh, I don't know,
maybe it's the heat or whatever,but I was just feeling just not
quite right and I was getting abit of joint stiffness.
And then I'm feeling my back'slike, oh, now I didn't put my
patches on and it's amazing howquickly they can work out of
your system because the system.
The half-life is so short, um,and that is a, you know it's a
good and a bad thing.
(22:01):
It's reassuring to those peopleto know.
I mean, I don't give implants,so implants will last in the
body for a long time, yeah, butif you have it through the skin,
you can stuff at any time and Ithink that's really important
for people to know absolutely100 louise.
Sonya (22:15):
We are so excited to be able to welcome you back to
thank you.
A warm and sunny australiawhere there are no signs of
winter colds good, bring it on.
And rebecca's coming back withyou as well, which is great,
fantastic.
And yeah, what are you mostexcited about?
I mean, how do you feel aboutthe fact that you're going to be
(22:35):
, you know, speaking in theopera house?
Louise (22:38):
well, do you know what?
I sort of live in a parallelworld, because I don't think any
of this is happening to me,because that's the only way I
can cope, and that's like yeah,I am.
I'm very weird in my mind.
So anything good and anythingbad, I don't think it's
happening to me.
It's like I've got thisidentical twin that I look after
and nurture and encourage, butit's not me and and and it's.
(22:59):
I think people don't understandthat really, I'm, I feel very
privileged that I can come andshare my knowledge and
experience.
I'm not coming thinking, wow,this is me, I'm going on the
stage.
It's not about that, it's I.
This is where I'm quiteconflicted and I think people
don't understand.
I'm looking forward actually toseeing the energy from people.
I'm looking forward to justseeing this connection that you
(23:19):
might know.
I did this theatre tour beforeChristmas.
Sonya (23:22):
I went to 34 different theatres.
Yeah.
Louise (23:25):
And my mother was an actress actually and I thought,
god, I never go on the stageLike actually.
And I thought, god, I never goon the stage like what am I
doing?
But actually there's nothingbetter than a real audience to
really feel that, not just thelove, but the connection.
You know this, this sort ofjoining of people, even just
hearing people in the intervallike women after us were talking
to go oh, I've met this personand she bought me a drink and
(23:45):
now we've shared emails andwe're going to set up this group
and it's like bringing on thisis what.
So that's what I'm lookingforward to more than anything
really.
Um so, and also, you know, yourcountry's lovely.
I mean, I'm going to Perth andMelbourne as well.
So I'm doing an academicconference in Perth for
urologists, so I'm lookingforward to converting them into
(24:06):
thinking about hormones as wellwhen we think about recurrent
newly trapped infections, and myhusband's a urologist, so he's
a bit annoyed actually, becauseI'm going to see some of his
friends and colleagues.
Sonya (24:15):
But you know, too bad.
And we have the wonderful DrKelly Casperson coming out, who
is also a urologist Kelly'samazing yeah.
So you know I really love thattake of um from you, that you
know what you're most lookingforward to is just that energy
and I must admit I I feel verymuch the same.
You know I'm lucky enough tohave been to the opera house and
countless times to attenddifferent things.
(24:37):
Uh, yeah, to be in a room withover 2000 um, you know I would
imagine predominantly women, um,assigned female at birth it is.
It is going to be an absolutejoy yeah, no, I mean, it's such
a privilege.
Louise (24:52):
It's a one-in-a-lifetime experience, isn't it?
But um, yeah, no, it'd be good.
I'm looking forward to it,definitely, and I'm looking
forward to the heat too.
Yeah, a bit of warmth, yeahexcellent.
Sonya (25:03):
Louise.
Thank you so much for your timetoday, and I am very much
looking forward to um huggingyou when we get to meet again in
Sydney.
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