March 6, 2025 • 36 mins
How do you navigate life after cancer when everything feels different?
Join me for a raw discussion that dives deep into the emotional and physical realities of cancer recovery. In this episode, Shari Todd and I share similarities in our vulnerable journeys through cancer diagnosis, treatment, and what life looks like on the other side.
And what it took for us to get there.
You will hear a candid conversation about the weight of expectations, mental health struggles, and the often-overlooked challenges faced during recovery and the complexities of an induced menopause.
We unpack the power of radical acceptance, the coaches that support us with this and the crucial role of community support in healing.
Shari’s insights reflect her experience of resilience and adaptability that resonates beyond her personal story, advocating for shared experiences among women facing similar challenges.
Join the conversation and break the silence around these essential topics.
Remember to subscribe, share, and leave a review! Your feedback helps me support others on their journeys.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sonya (00:01):
Welcome to the Dear Menopause podcast.
I'm Sonya Lovell, your host Now.
I've been bringing youconversations with amazing
menopause experts for over twoyears now.
If you have missed any of thoseconversations, now's the time
to go back and listen, and youcan always share them with
anyone you think needs to hearthem.
This way, more people can findthese amazing conversations,
(00:25):
needs to hear them.
This way, more people can findthese amazing conversations.
Welcome to this week's episode.
I am joined today by a veryspecial guest who is joining me
all the way from the US of AShari Todd.
Shari shared a very emotionaland vulnerable video on her
Instagram about her experienceof recovery after cancer and I
was really encouraged to reachout and say, hey, I love what
(00:49):
you said.
I think there's a podcastepisode in this and she, very
generously, has agreed to joinus today.
So, Shari, welcome to the DearMenopause podcast.
Shari (00:58):
Thank you so much.
I'm so happy to be here.
It's always really wonderfulwhen I can talk to somebody else
and hopefully share some thingsthat can make people feel less
alone in the journey.
Some of the things I go throughfeel less wasted to me if the
things we learn can be sharedwith others, and I love that you
provide a space for that.
So thank you so much.
Sonya (01:18):
I do also want to give a shout out to the two amazing
ladies who run the business, butalso the Instagram account
called Tactic Nutrition, whichwas how I came across your video
, to start with Alex andMeredith.
I highly recommend you go andgive them a follow, sherry.
Introduce yourself to us, tellus a little bit about who you
are, where you're coming fromAbsolutely so.
Shari (01:38):
I live in Southern California.
Let's see.
I have two sons, 30 and 21, anda really adorable grandson
who's 10 months old and ahusband, and basically I love
all things outdoors.
I've been an athlete my entireadult life and I love cycling,
hiking, running, lifting weights, you name it.
(02:00):
I love it.
Sonya (02:05):
One of the things that we were going to talk about and
explore a little bit is yourrecovery from cancer, so are you
happy to share with us wherethat started for you?
Shari (02:13):
Yeah.
So I had a math that I detectedon self-exam gosh a long time
ago, probably in 2013.
And then it was grew a littlebit and so it was biopsied and
imaged and determined to bebenign.
But then, right around COVID,it started growing like
exponentially and, of course,was really difficult to get
(02:35):
imaging, was really difficult toget medical appointments.
So it took me quite a while toget this taken care of and since
it had been biopsied previously, nobody wanted to take it out.
And since it had been biopsypreviously, nobody wanted to
take it out.
They felt it was cosmetic, butit was really large Like by the
time it was removed, it was likethe size of a golf ball.
Well, and this was in yourbreast.
It was yeah, yeah.
(02:56):
So I ended up having a generalsurgeon do a lumpectomy.
It ended up being cancer.
So I was then referred to anoncologist.
I had this was in January of2022.
So then had a partialmastectomy followed by five
months of chemotherapy and 35treatments of radiation.
(03:18):
Started on endocrine therapy,tamoxifen yeah, ovarian
suppression as well developeduterine growths from the
tamoxifen, so wound up with asubsequent, uh, radical
hysterectomy.
The following in march of 2023.
I think, uh, that that probablythat's a very, very tidy
(03:40):
summation of what my body wentthrough in a year and a half or
a little, a little over a year.
Sonya (03:45):
So yeah, it feels like that when you kind of sum it up
that way, doesn't it?
It sounds like this neat littlepackage that you can tie a bow
on and go, and this is what Iexperienced.
Yeah, you know, as we both know, that it's not a neat little
package in any shape or form.
It's definitely does not looklike a gift in any shape or form
.
Shari (04:05):
No, absolutely agree with that.
Sonya (04:06):
It's not a gift.
So, yeah, bad analogy, sonia.
So tell me then about what yourrecovery has been post all of
that, because that's a lot ofsurgeries, it's a lot of therapy
medication.
Talk us through how, as anathlete in particular, you did
kind of recover and what thetimeline was like for you.
What was the biggest hurdlethat you faced?
Shari (04:28):
Biggest hurdle that I faced, if I'm completely honest,
was the weight of my ownexpectations.
I had this idea that I wasgoing to be the person that,
three months after treatment,was easily taking up all of the
previous activities I had done.
I expected my body to bounceback really quickly.
I had no idea what medicallyinduced menopause plus endocrine
(04:52):
therapy was going to be like.
I had gained a lot of weight Ithink about around maybe 20, 25
pounds through just everything.
I mean treatment and then youknow afterwards, and so I think
that I expected to you know,ring a bell at the end of
treatment and have this verybrief transition back into my
previous state and get back tothat.
(05:14):
Just get back to that.
You know, and that's what I hadbeen looking forward to all
through treatment was gettingback to myself, and it quickly
became apparent that that wasnot going to happen and I I
really struggled with how todeal with that.
I've always been able to make mybody do what I want it to do
athletically, and I my heartrate, my resting heart rate, my
(05:36):
working heart rate were superhigh.
I would actually almost feellike I was having panic attacks
when I would try to push myself.
My joint pain was horrible,horrible, oh my gosh, and just
really struggled overall withwho was I going to be now as an
athlete and what was going tomake me special?
Because I was very middle ofthe road as far as performance
(05:59):
went.
I was very middle of the roadas far as my endurance went and
it really forced me to.
I'll never forget.
I ran, let's see.
I finished treatment inNovember.
I had been pretty much throughtreatment.
I exercised, I ran still maybethe last, like I don't know,
perhaps a month I didn't runbecause my hemoglobin got really
low.
Sonya (06:18):
I was bleh yeah, and everything kind of catches up
with you, doesn't it?
From my experience, I felt likethere was this lag of catch up
that your body kind of played.
Shari (06:31):
Well, it's cumulative, I think after a while it just
really wears on you.
So I had been training stillduring treatment and I actually
almost feel like the time periodafter treatment was worse, as
far as just my body just felt soawful I'll never forget.
So I finished radiation inNovember and we always rent a
place with my kids onThanksgiving and I had started
(06:51):
Tamoxifen and we rented thislike mountain cabin that had
these really narrow, wonkystairs and I'll never forget my
kids seeing me walk down thestairs after I'd woken up and
they were like what's wrong withour mom?
I was like I can't walk when Iwake up in the morning.
Like I did and like I can't evencling to things because my
wrists hurt, and like after like10 minutes I could walk, and
(07:14):
like when I would start to run,I would have to like do this
weird hobble type thing.
So, and then I mean, after Ihad my hysterectomy, it was
markedly worse for a while aswell.
So I I ran a half marathon inum, let's see, wait, maybe, yeah
, in 2023.
(07:35):
I mean, I've never had to walkor like to where I was like I
have to walk because I'm just somarathon, and it was in Long
Beach, so it was like super cooloutside and it was just a
horrible experience.
Like I almost felt like Icouldn't like speak after I was
so exhausted.
And so I contacted alex and Iwanted her to coach me the way
I've always sort of coachedmyself, which is like no
(07:58):
bullshit, like let's go.
You know, come on, push me pushme no pain, no gain, Totally,
totally.
And thank God she's Alex and shedidn't do that and she really,
really started to open my mindto the idea that what we were
going to work on first wasradical acceptance and it makes
(08:19):
me cry just thinking about it,because that really changed how
I moved forward.
I'm a very strong person, Ifyou need me to.
I mean, I worked full time onchemo.
I can do really hard things,but accepting that I was never
going to go back to the person Iwas before cancer felt too hard
for me.
(08:39):
It just felt too hard.
And Alex really helped meaccept that and I remember one
time she asked me when I wascomplaining about my pace.
She said you know.
Okay, I'm going to ask you aquestion what if you never, ever
ran faster than this, ever?
Like you just didn't, you neverwere able to, would you still
run?
And I was like well, I mean, Iam going to run faster, you know
(09:03):
.
But it really made me thinkabout my why, behind the reasons
that I do things and I thinkand I don't know if it was like
this for you I'm a reallypositive person, I'm a solutions
oriented person, I am anactions oriented person, but
probably the three to six monthsafter I ended treatment were
some of the darkest days of mylife.
(09:23):
I just felt like my life wasover.
I felt like I had nothing tohope for.
I felt like I had been screwedand I felt like that I had
invested all of my life in beinghealthy, being this fit person
that really learned about health, ate really nutritious meals, I
mean all of this and now I wasleft with this super broken body
(09:48):
that didn't do what I wanted itto do and I just felt really
stuck and hopeless and dark andI didn't have the tools to
handle that.
I had to get help.
I hired a trauma therapist andI hired Alex and best move ever
Best move ever.
I don't know, Did you have thatexperience as well?
Sonya (10:06):
Oh my gosh, you would have seen me.
I was just sitting here noddingalong and absolutely my own
experience resonates very, verydeeply with exactly what you
experienced.
I refer to my life almost intwo different chapters.
I have life before cancer and Ihave life after cancer, and the
acceptance that my life and mybody and my quality of life
(10:26):
after cancer is very differentto what it was before took a
long, long time, and I have anincredibly vivid memory of
sitting on the couch next to myhusband and this is probably in
those three to six months posteverything finishing
hysterically sobbing because Iwas so angry at my body.
(10:47):
I think the words that I usedwere I did not make this happen,
but I have to fix it.
And that's so unfair because,like you, I mean, I had been a
personal trainer for 12 or soyears.
At that point in time, I wassuper fit, I was super healthy,
I was really happy.
My feeling at that point intime I was super fit, I was
super healthy, I was reallyhappy.
My feeling at that point intime was that my body had let me
(11:10):
down, my body had betrayed me.
I was really angry at my bodyfor doing that and that I was
the one left to pick up thepieces to make it better.
That was hard, it was reallyhard, and I think one of the
reasons I wanted to have thisconversation with you is because
it's so important for women tohear these stories, because they
(11:31):
do see you get on with yourlife and you get people reach
out to you and go how do Ithrive after cancer?
You're doing such an amazingjob and I speak and I have this
podcast and I do amazing things,but it all came as a result of
having to push through all thatdarkness and that really hard
stuff.
And you're right, we can dohard things and we do do hard
things, but the hard things arestill really hard.
(11:52):
I think the things that helpedme the most were definitely,
basically, the fact that I hadtrauma that I needed to deal
with.
I had counseling and I workedwith a kinesiologist and we
worked specifically on clearingtrauma energy out of my body,
and that was a huge turningpoint for me.
So, yeah, I absolutely resonatewith everything that you've
just described.
Shari (12:13):
Yeah, it's interesting.
I was thinking when you weresaying how about your anger and
feeling like your body hadbetrayed you?
You know there's also a lot ofmessaging from people on social
media and you know you do a deepdive into social media cancer
doctors and patients and whenyou, when you get cancer,
because you just want to feellike you want to know everything
(12:34):
at least I did and there's somuch messaging about you know,
don't do this, it causes cancer.
Don't do this, it causes cancer.
And I mean I coupled in thattime I had this paralyzing
terror that I was going to dosomething to make my cancer come
back.
I was going to eat, you know, aham sandwich, or you know have
a sip of wine, or you know dosomething.
(12:56):
And and I think that's why youknow there's do you follow Dr
Taplinsky on Instagram?
Sonya (13:02):
Eleanor.
Shari (13:02):
Taplinsky, she's lovely and she I really feel like
there's people like her andHelen Beely I love to.
She's a physio and she hadcancer and I think she's in
Australia as well, yeah, yeah, Ithink I started to recognize
really early on that everybodyin the cancer space was not for
(13:24):
me, and I think that was areally good line to draw,
because you do have thesefeelings of like why did I get
cancer?
Why the hell did I get cancer?
Sonya (13:34):
I got asked once in an online appointment.
So we're in a situation likethis with a naturopathic health
practitioner that I'd gone to tohelp me with I was having
really bad menopausal problemsand of course you know the
rhetoric is my breast cancer washormone positive, so therefore,
absolute closed doors.
No, you cannot have HRT.
You can't even go nearcomplementary medicines.
(13:56):
Like there's so many no's andso many you can't, you can't,
you can't and anyway I wasreally struggling.
So I did this call with thisnaturopath who pitched herself
as this specialist in women'shealth and would be really
helpful, and we had this call.
That was kind of a bit odd andI had made the decision that she
wasn't someone I was going towork with and the very last
question she asked me was sohave you thought about what
(14:17):
caused your cancer?
And I just sat there and ittook all of my energy to not be
reactive and I just went no, Ihaven't, because that's not a
good use of my time, but Ithought about it afterwards and
I was just so cross thatsomebody would be putting that
back onto me.
Yeah, and you're right.
(14:40):
There are so many um aspects ofthe cancer community and the
information that's out there andavailable.
Shari (14:49):
That is very fear-based well, and also I think that
markets well, I think if you cansay, you know, hey, you can
take this supplement or this,whatever people are afraid and
people want like any, like anyaspect of health.
People want something that theycan do, that's really easy and
doesn't require any lifestylechanges, and that makes that,
(15:10):
makes people victims ofpredatory marketing.
And so I just it really, reallyinfuriates me and you know I
have the same experience you hadwith that naturopath with some
people in my life and I thinkpeople are scared, like I
remember the same thing happenedto me when I went through a
divorce.
Like people would say, likewell, do you think it was
because you didn't eat dinner asa family together every night.
I think that's because peopleare trying to tell themselves I
(15:33):
do this thing, so that is notgoing to happen to me.
And I think it's the same withcancer.
You know, if I think people, ifthey can nail down what, what I
did wrong, then it won't happento them, won't happen to me,
yeah, it's a great way to lookat it.
Yeah, I mean, and it's reallyagain, it's just a way to kind
of like alleviate our fears.
But it is.
(15:58):
I did not.
I was absolutely unprepared forthe onslaught of mental health
difficulties that I had aftertreatment.
You know I, the anxiety, theabsolute, absolute depression
and just hopelessness, I, it wasjust, it was everything I could
do to just go on.
You know, that's just.
That's not me at all.
It's one thing that I I try tobe honest with people I talk a
lot with, like newly diagnosedpeople I'm sure you do too and
(16:21):
it's one thing that I, you knowyou don't want to scare people,
but you want to prepare themLike it's bad, it's really bad,
but like you can get through it.
You know, like anything else,but it's like, okay, what am I
going to do this hour?
Okay, I just need to get out ofbed, you know.
But yeah, it's really hard formenopause, really for menopause.
Like there are so many symptomsof menopause that I'm like why
(16:45):
the hell do we not know aboutthis?
Like it pisses me off, likewhat?
Why don't we know about this?
Sonya (16:52):
like yeah, a lot of the advocacy work that I do here I
extrapolate that out intogovernment and the funding and
the research.
It's not just our parents andgenerations before us haven't
prepared us, the health systemhas let us down and there is
this incredible loss of time andenergy because we're not
(17:15):
prepared.
If we just talk about menopauseeven from a natural perspective
the women that I speak toconstantly that experience
natural perimenopause andmenopause it's hard enough for
them.
But for those of us that gothrough an unnatural menopause,
and whether that's a surgical ora medically induced, or even
those that experience POI andthings like that there's just
this ginormous gap that'sliterally like a canyon that
(17:37):
everyone just falls into.
Shari (17:38):
Yeah, I mean, I didn't even realize I was.
So I'm a runner and you knowyour vaginal tissue is so dry
and so when you're running Imean you feel like you have a
bladder infection, there'spelvic pressure, and finally
went and got to see an oncologygynecologist that was like oh
yeah, your vaginal tissuesatrophied and like could anybody
have mentioned that to me?
(17:58):
Could literally anybody havementioned that?
Like that's just what's goingto happen to me and even getting
so, I do vaginal estrogen andI'm great, and I have hormone
receptor positive cancer as well.
But every single time I wouldgo to the pharmacy, I wouldn't
be allowed to take my medicine.
I had to get a conference andthe pharmacist would tell me how
this increased my risk ofbreast cancer recurrence and I
(18:20):
like that's old information.
I finally got to the pointwhere I printed out the correct
and like the nih documents andstudies and and I finally
switched pharmacies because I'mlike you're not accurate with
people yeah, and this is mydecision that I've made with my
doctor.
Sonya (18:36):
Like I don't need your help here, like I'm good and I
have this conversation going onconstantly hormone replacement
therapy, or MHT as we call ithere in Australia.
There is still this incredibleamount of gatekeeping and closed
doors and absolute no's, and Ivery much believe that any
(18:57):
conversation should be acollaborative conversation.
It should be patient led.
We need all the information tobe able to make the decisions
and that's what we rely on ourdoctors and our specialists for.
But I feel very strongly thatthey should not be in a position
to just shut you down and sayabsolutely no, you can't have
that.
I chose to take hormone therapy.
So I've been on hormone therapynow for about 12 months because
(19:18):
I did my research and I satdown and I understood what my
risk was of taking hormonetherapy, what my risk was of a
recurrence of breast cancerwithout taking hormone therapy,
and I was able to make thedecision that my quality of life
is more important to me rightnow than living in fear of a
recurring breast cancer oranother cancer as well.
(19:40):
And that took a lot for me togo through that process, find
the clinicians that I could havethose conversations with and
really conscious of when I haveconversations with other people,
that not everybody is capableof getting to that point where
they can make that decision andthat their fear of everything
that else that kind of couldpotentially come from that
overrides their ability to makethat decision.
(20:00):
And that's absolutely okay andI respect that for everybody.
But I get really cross that theclinicians are the ones so
often just shutting that doorand saying no, no, you can't.
Shari (20:11):
But also there's health risks of not doing hormone
replacement therapy.
I mean they don't even coverall of the cardiac risks from
let alone just menopause, butendocrine therapy as well.
Sonya (20:21):
And also bone health, like if we talk about bone
health and for someone that hasbeen through medical treatment
for a cancer, experienced andinduced menopause, and a lot of
the adjuvant therapies as wellhave significant impacts on bone
.
You know, that's just creatinga whole other problem for a
community down the track thatthen has to be addressed by the
healthcare system, and I justget so frustrated that there's
such short-sightedness down thetrack that then has to be
(20:42):
addressed by the healthcaresystem, and I just get so
frustrated that there's suchshort-sightedness in the
decisions that are made, andoften they're made for women
without the women being included.
Shari (20:52):
Absolutely, and I think I genuinely believe that it's
just a lack of informationbetween providers and patients,
because I mean, even when I talkto people who are newly
diagnosed, I'm like I want toknow everything, I want to ask a
million questions, and I'm suremy providers are like, oh my
goodness.
But I'm really nice though, butstill.
Sonya (21:12):
Yeah, but it's also, it's our health.
Shari (21:14):
Like we have every right to ask.
Right, I want to know what allmy options are.
I don't want you like, ifthere's 10 options, I don't want
you to tell me the two that youwant me to choose between.
I want to know what all of themare.
And it's one of the reasonswhen I had these uterine growths
and they were doing myhysterectomy, I I wanted
everything out, because I'm likeI had had a secondary colon
cancer and another secondaryprimary cancer and so, and so I
(21:39):
was like I'm not messing around,I don, I don't want my own
reason, I don't want myfallopian tubes there, I don't
want my cervix there, just takeit out.
And I had to fight with peoplefor that.
And I'm like, yeah, I don'tcare.
And then they didn't, they onlywanted to pay for part of it.
And I'm like, fine, how much isit?
Tell me how much it is to takefor, I'll pay for it.
(22:00):
But why isn't that beingoffered as an option to women?
Why aren't we told abouthormone replacement therapy?
Why aren't we told aboutvaginal estrogen?
These things can improve notonly our quality of life but our
relationships and our abilityto feel at home in our own
bodies, and I share yourfrustration very strong.
Sonya (22:21):
And it's interesting when we're on, you know different
parts of the planet, yet thefrustrations and the challenges
that we face are so, so similar,which is indicative of a global
issue of um, you know,education gap for clinicians and
a patriarchal um andmisogynistic health care system,
and I'm not saying that thatjust comes from male doctors, it
(22:41):
comes from female doctors aswell that it is definitely a
misogyny that's baked into thehealthcare system.
Okay, I feel like we shouldmove into some more of a
positive space, and one of theareas that I was really hoping
to explore with you was whatsteps did you take, tell us
about what lifestyle changes youdid make other than the trauma,
(23:01):
counselling and that sort ofthing have you used as levers to
really get you into this placenow, where you do feel so much
better?
I think?
Shari (23:08):
there's probably a mental health and work component and
then a physical component.
I think.
From the physical perspective,I just kept trying different
methods, like when I was runningI tried 80-20 running and I
just jumped into a bunch ofdifferent things.
I would try something and thenif it worked for a little bit
(23:28):
then I'd be like great, I'll gowith that for a little bit.
I did like walk run.
So from a physical perspectiveand like I had to, I had so much
joint pain, like I, for example, couldn't do a back squat, so I
got a.
I had a safety squat bar bar,did some safety squats.
I changed things up and wasn'tafraid to adapt and scale and
stop if something hurt and tryto find another exercise that
(23:50):
worked that muscle group.
I also started transitioningsome of my runs to trails so
that I could not worry about mypace but have a great experience
and be outdoors.
I think one of the main thingsthat really helped me and this
is something I had beforehand ofthe main things that really
helped me and this is somethingI had beforehand but it's just a
really great, solid communityof people that were a safe space
for me and allowed me to bevulnerable and real about what I
(24:14):
was experiencing and couldreflect back to me who I was,
who I've been and who I can bethrough their eyes, as well as
just a safe space to be mad andto be sad and to be afraid.
And I really feel like probablythat between my, I have a
(24:35):
Friday run group at my house.
We've been meeting since 2008and we run and then I make a big
pot of oatmeal and big pot ofcoffee and we all sit in my
garage and talk about life.
That group is my family and youknow they're the people that
you call one friend from thegroup.
For example, I had a baselineCT right after treatment and
(24:55):
they found lesions on my lungand my hip and needed PET scan
and I just texted the group andone of my like best friends came
over and she was like I don'tknow what to say, like but I'll
just stand by you, and likepeople not letting you be alone,
and like my husband, I mean, hewas there for everything and he
was the same.
(25:15):
And I feel like having yourpeople and whatever form that is
for you, whether it's a partner, whether it's friends, it could
be coworkers-workers, it couldbe online support groups, but
having people where you can bereal and it's safe is, I mean, I
don't feel like there's asubstitute for that for sure.
But then, athletically, I thinkI really invested myself in
(25:36):
focusing on the process andfocusing on sustainable,
consistent habits and I justtook like, for example, losing
weight.
I had just had a conversationwith Alex not long ago and I was
like like I lost all the weightbut I haven't been weighing
myself, I haven't been takingpictures of my body, I haven't
(25:57):
been even tracking macros.
I just I use a differentmodality to communicate my
nutrition to Alex and becausethose things felt very not
helpful for me in progressingforward, they felt like they
were very kind of the oppositeof progress in the way that I
needed.
So I basically focused on small, sustainable, boring.
(26:17):
But I will say that I ran myfirst marathon.
It was probably about a year,it was a little less than a year
out from treatment ending andit's by far like by over an hour
my slowest marathon I've everdone and I felt terrible.
It was really hard, it was hot,but I think allowing myself to
(26:40):
show up and be proud of what Icould do, even even if that felt
it feels hard to do somethingyou used to be really good at
and not be really good at itanymore.
It feels shameful in a wayqualifiers or apologies and show
(27:01):
up as I am and accept.
That is probably, if I'm honest,the biggest component as an
athlete that has allowed me toprogress, and that progression
has happened without focus onthe goals, without focus on the
outcome.
It's happened purely via focuson the effort, focus on what am
(27:21):
I going to do today.
It's just like when you'retraining for a really long
endurance event, right, andyou're like halfway through your
training and you're doing for amarathon, you're doing a 15
miler, and at the end of it youfeel utterly exhausted and you
think, how on earth am I goingto run 11 more miles?
But here's the thing you're notrunning 11 more miles today,
you're running 15.
And you had enough strength forthat and, I think, keeping
yourself like in the present.
(27:42):
There's a really great book,the Practice of Groundedness, by
Brad Stolberg, and that bookreally helped me, I think,
ground myself in good practices.
But also, you know, even if youcan't necessarily afford a
one-to-one coach, there's tonsof like online communities where
you can get that grounding andI think that's really helpful.
(28:10):
So I would say the main thingsare community show up.
Show up every day, and that canlook different.
Some days you don't have it inyou to go.
You know run or whatever.
Then that's okay.
If you were going to do a threemile run, go out and walk three
miles.
You know every single mile.
Find a picture of somethingcool or funny or whatever.
Always find a way to show upand I feel like if you show up,
eventually you'll get to whereyou want to go.
It's just takes longer than youthink.
(28:31):
It took longer than I thought.
It took a lot longer than Ithought, but I feel like this is
what I feel like.
It's like.
It's like you want thetransition to happen, you want
the forward progress to happen,and it doesn't happen and
doesn't happen.
And then all of a sudden it'slike all at once, it just it's
like a flood, but it isn't, isit?
It's.
It's really like you know.
I have this analogy like youknow, you're boiling water,
(28:52):
right, and if you, every time,you have a disappointing
exercise session because yourwater's not boiling, it's as
though you turn the heat off andthen you're losing all the heat
that you've built up.
So it's like, hey, maybe Ididn't add any heat today, but I
just kept the flame steady, andso eventually that water boils
really rapidly, but it's all theeffort that you put in before
(29:15):
that.
And I think those are thethings that people I don't know
if they don't want to hear it,but I think those aren't the
things that we grab on to.
We grab on to like the successstory, we grab on to like the
beauty from ashes, but there's alot of steps in between that
that are just boring, showing updoing things that are hard, you
know, and it's not glamorous,it's not, it's not fun, but it's
(29:40):
type two fun.
Sonya (29:42):
Yeah, yeah I love and it really does.
I think what I heard you saythere, the main things that were
important for you wereobviously the counseling and the
therapy, so getting that mentalhealth sorted out.
Meet your body where it's at mycoach that I work with, similar
to how you work with alex.
I have my own amazing coach,olivia, and she teaches from a
(30:04):
place of what she calls grit andgrace and it's like on some
days you can show up and you putin the grit because you've got
it in you and your energy levelsare there and you've you know
able to do it.
But on other days you show upand you need to show yourself
some grace because you know, forwhatever reason, the grit's not
there and you just acknowledgethat that's where you're at
today and, like you say, youknow that analogy of the boiling
(30:24):
water and that maintaining thatheat, you still show up, you
still do something, but you showyourself the grace to allow
yourself to release theexpectations that every workout,
every day, is going to be youat a hundred percent, because
it's not so.
I think that's very similarcoaching technique to what you
get from Alex, what I get fromOlivia, and I think it can be a
message to anybody that'slistening is just meet your body
(30:46):
where it's at and maintainconsistency, maintain a routine
and set that intention thattoday I'm going to exercise and
then when you get on the floor,if you're at the gym, or if you
get on the road, if you're outfor a run, just meet yourself
where you're at.
It's the fact that you got outthere and you put the work in to
show up today that's important.
Shari (31:08):
Yeah, absolutely.
I love that we're talking aboutthis because I think as women,
and especially with one another,we can be really guarded about
our failures, our difficulties,our struggles, because we feel
like everybody has it alltogether.
We don't want to be the onethat doesn't have it all
together.
I think it's really important.
I really love what you saidearlier about how you kind of
(31:30):
divide your life into two spacesbefore cancer and after cancer
and I think a really importantthing to recognize is that I
think that that's the space thatmenopause falls into as well,
and I think that it's reallyvaluable to be real with one
another that we're not goingback.
We're not going back to who wewere before, and the more
quickly and fully you can acceptthat, the better your life is
(31:55):
going to be.
But it's hard.
It is hard to accept it.
But I think it starts with theseconversations that we're having
now and being honest withourselves and each other and
saying like hey, you know, mybody doesn't look the same as it
did and I need to wrap my mindaround that, and that's okay.
And saying, hey, you know, Ifeel embarrassed that I can't
run with the same people I ranwith before.
(32:16):
Hey, you know, I'm havingtrouble having sex because it's
really uncomfortable, or I'm Ihave discomfort when I'm, you
know, riding a bike or running.
Does anybody else have thatissue?
Can we talk about that and justnot being afraid to be real
about what we're experiencing?
And also, I mean, I think it'sall good and well to be
(32:37):
vulnerable, but being presentand holding space for other
people's vulnerability is hardtoo, because I mean, it's one of
the reasons we tell lies toeach other, because it's easier
than it is to look somebody inthe eye and stay with them when
they're talking about somethinghard.
But I think that's where thechanges start, because I mean,
let's be honest, right, ifanybody's going to change the
(32:59):
world, it's going to be women.
It always has been, and I feellike it's the same way with
menopause, with cancer recovery.
If we can say to each other hey, this is where we're at, let's
stop and be here with each otherand figure out how to move
forward, I really think we canchange things.
I mean, I don't know if thatsounds Pollyanna, but I really
(33:20):
think we can.
Sonya (33:21):
No, absolutely I agree with you and it's one of the
reasons why I decided threeyears ago that I was going to
talk about this.
I was going to talk about mycancer, I was also going to talk
about menopause, and I'm a big,big believer in, I suppose, the
hero's journey, if you like, ifwe go through these experiences
.
But there has to be a purposefor that at the end of the road,
and for me, that purpose issharing my story and speaking to
(33:41):
other people and sharing theirstories, because it's through
stories that we learn and we canmake change and we don't repeat
mistakes.
You know, our generation hasbeen let down by so much
gatekeeping of stories andinformation, and I always say I
may not have a huge impact onthis current generation, because
what we've got is what we'vegot in many respects, but the
generations that come behind usdeserve so much better and it's
(34:05):
our job to make sure that weleave this place in a better
place for them.
Shari (34:09):
Yeah, and I think, even by having these conversations,
people in our age demographicare going to parent differently,
they're going to tell differentstories to the young women in
their lives.
And I think that that carriesso much value because when you
think about it I mean even thinkabout periods from generation
to generation and how that washandled and how that was
conversed about and taboo.
(34:30):
And it's always so cool to mehow, when you open up and talk
about something that you'rescared to death to share, how
quickly you realize people arein the same boat with you and
you are not alone.
And then they're not alone too.
And so I think that we canchange.
I think you're right.
(34:51):
I think we can change the storyof generations to come, and
it's going to come throughstorytelling and changing how we
talk to each other about ourbodies and how we talk to each
other about the things that weexperience, whether it's through
our periods or childbirth ormenopause, and just being honest
about that and not feeling likewe have to keep up to some
(35:12):
societal standard or expectationthat has been put on us.
That isn't real.
It's not real, like it's justsomething outside of us.
I mean, we can do whatever wewant to do, you know, but I
think it starts again withsharing our stories and our
truth and telling the stories tothe younger women as well.
Sonya (35:30):
Yeah, 100%, sherry.
Thank you so much for sharingyour story with us today.
Having this really beautiful,in-depth and so necessary
conversation, I'm excited toshare this with my community.
I think that there's a lot ofwhat we've talked about today
that will definitely go a longway to showing others how they
can show up for themselves andfor the other people in their
lives as well.
Shari (35:51):
And I just really appreciate you having a space
for this.
I think it's really necessaryand I think that it's going to
change how people see themselvesand how they move through the
process of menopause.
I really appreciate you.
Welcome to the Dear Menopause podcast.
I'm Sonya Lovell, your host Now.
I've been bringing youconversations with amazing
menopause experts for over twoyears now.
If you have missed any of thoseconversations, now's the time
to go back and listen, and youcan always share them with
anyone you think needs to hearthem.
This way, more people can findthese amazing conversations,
(00:25):
needs to hear them.
This way, more people can findthese amazing conversations.
Welcome to this week's episode.
I am joined today by a veryspecial guest who is joining me
all the way from the US of AShari Todd.
Shari shared a very emotionaland vulnerable video on her
Instagram about her experienceof recovery after cancer and I
was really encouraged to reachout and say, hey, I love what
(00:49):
you said.
I think there's a podcastepisode in this and she, very
generously, has agreed to joinus today.
So, Shari, welcome to the DearMenopause podcast.
Shari (00:58):
Thank you so much.
I'm so happy to be here.
It's always really wonderfulwhen I can talk to somebody else
and hopefully share some thingsthat can make people feel less
alone in the journey.
Some of the things I go throughfeel less wasted to me if the
things we learn can be sharedwith others, and I love that you
provide a space for that.
So thank you so much.
Sonya (01:18):
I do also want to give a shout out to the two amazing
ladies who run the business, butalso the Instagram account
called Tactic Nutrition, whichwas how I came across your video
, to start with Alex andMeredith.
I highly recommend you go andgive them a follow, sherry.
Introduce yourself to us, tellus a little bit about who you
are, where you're coming fromAbsolutely so.
Shari (01:38):
I live in Southern California.
Let's see.
I have two sons, 30 and 21, anda really adorable grandson
who's 10 months old and ahusband, and basically I love
all things outdoors.
I've been an athlete my entireadult life and I love cycling,
hiking, running, lifting weights, you name it.
(02:00):
I love it.
Sonya (02:05):
One of the things that we were going to talk about and
explore a little bit is yourrecovery from cancer, so are you
happy to share with us wherethat started for you?
Shari (02:13):
Yeah.
So I had a math that I detectedon self-exam gosh a long time
ago, probably in 2013.
And then it was grew a littlebit and so it was biopsied and
imaged and determined to bebenign.
But then, right around COVID,it started growing like
exponentially and, of course,was really difficult to get
(02:35):
imaging, was really difficult toget medical appointments.
So it took me quite a while toget this taken care of and since
it had been biopsied previously, nobody wanted to take it out.
And since it had been biopsypreviously, nobody wanted to
take it out.
They felt it was cosmetic, butit was really large Like by the
time it was removed, it was likethe size of a golf ball.
Well, and this was in yourbreast.
It was yeah, yeah.
(02:56):
So I ended up having a generalsurgeon do a lumpectomy.
It ended up being cancer.
So I was then referred to anoncologist.
I had this was in January of2022.
So then had a partialmastectomy followed by five
months of chemotherapy and 35treatments of radiation.
(03:18):
Started on endocrine therapy,tamoxifen yeah, ovarian
suppression as well developeduterine growths from the
tamoxifen, so wound up with asubsequent, uh, radical
hysterectomy.
The following in march of 2023.
I think, uh, that that probablythat's a very, very tidy
(03:40):
summation of what my body wentthrough in a year and a half or
a little, a little over a year.
Sonya (03:45):
So yeah, it feels like that when you kind of sum it up
that way, doesn't it?
It sounds like this neat littlepackage that you can tie a bow
on and go, and this is what Iexperienced.
Yeah, you know, as we both know, that it's not a neat little
package in any shape or form.
It's definitely does not looklike a gift in any shape or form
.
Shari (04:05):
No, absolutely agree with that.
Sonya (04:06):
It's not a gift.
So, yeah, bad analogy, sonia.
So tell me then about what yourrecovery has been post all of
that, because that's a lot ofsurgeries, it's a lot of therapy
medication.
Talk us through how, as anathlete in particular, you did
kind of recover and what thetimeline was like for you.
What was the biggest hurdlethat you faced?
Shari (04:28):
Biggest hurdle that I faced, if I'm completely honest,
was the weight of my ownexpectations.
I had this idea that I wasgoing to be the person that,
three months after treatment,was easily taking up all of the
previous activities I had done.
I expected my body to bounceback really quickly.
I had no idea what medicallyinduced menopause plus endocrine
(04:52):
therapy was going to be like.
I had gained a lot of weight Ithink about around maybe 20, 25
pounds through just everything.
I mean treatment and then youknow afterwards, and so I think
that I expected to you know,ring a bell at the end of
treatment and have this verybrief transition back into my
previous state and get back tothat.
(05:14):
Just get back to that.
You know, and that's what I hadbeen looking forward to all
through treatment was gettingback to myself, and it quickly
became apparent that that wasnot going to happen and I I
really struggled with how todeal with that.
I've always been able to make mybody do what I want it to do
athletically, and I my heartrate, my resting heart rate, my
(05:36):
working heart rate were superhigh.
I would actually almost feellike I was having panic attacks
when I would try to push myself.
My joint pain was horrible,horrible, oh my gosh, and just
really struggled overall withwho was I going to be now as an
athlete and what was going tomake me special?
Because I was very middle ofthe road as far as performance
(05:59):
went.
I was very middle of the roadas far as my endurance went and
it really forced me to.
I'll never forget.
I ran, let's see.
I finished treatment inNovember.
I had been pretty much throughtreatment.
I exercised, I ran still maybethe last, like I don't know,
perhaps a month I didn't runbecause my hemoglobin got really
low.
Sonya (06:18):
I was bleh yeah, and everything kind of catches up
with you, doesn't it?
From my experience, I felt likethere was this lag of catch up
that your body kind of played.
Shari (06:31):
Well, it's cumulative, I think after a while it just
really wears on you.
So I had been training stillduring treatment and I actually
almost feel like the time periodafter treatment was worse, as
far as just my body just felt soawful I'll never forget.
So I finished radiation inNovember and we always rent a
place with my kids onThanksgiving and I had started
(06:51):
Tamoxifen and we rented thislike mountain cabin that had
these really narrow, wonkystairs and I'll never forget my
kids seeing me walk down thestairs after I'd woken up and
they were like what's wrong withour mom?
I was like I can't walk when Iwake up in the morning.
Like I did and like I can't evencling to things because my
wrists hurt, and like after like10 minutes I could walk, and
(07:14):
like when I would start to run,I would have to like do this
weird hobble type thing.
So, and then I mean, after Ihad my hysterectomy, it was
markedly worse for a while aswell.
So I I ran a half marathon inum, let's see, wait, maybe, yeah
, in 2023.
(07:35):
I mean, I've never had to walkor like to where I was like I
have to walk because I'm just somarathon, and it was in Long
Beach, so it was like super cooloutside and it was just a
horrible experience.
Like I almost felt like Icouldn't like speak after I was
so exhausted.
And so I contacted alex and Iwanted her to coach me the way
I've always sort of coachedmyself, which is like no
(07:58):
bullshit, like let's go.
You know, come on, push me pushme no pain, no gain, Totally,
totally.
And thank God she's Alex and shedidn't do that and she really,
really started to open my mindto the idea that what we were
going to work on first wasradical acceptance and it makes
(08:19):
me cry just thinking about it,because that really changed how
I moved forward.
I'm a very strong person, Ifyou need me to.
I mean, I worked full time onchemo.
I can do really hard things,but accepting that I was never
going to go back to the person Iwas before cancer felt too hard
for me.
(08:39):
It just felt too hard.
And Alex really helped meaccept that and I remember one
time she asked me when I wascomplaining about my pace.
She said you know.
Okay, I'm going to ask you aquestion what if you never, ever
ran faster than this, ever?
Like you just didn't, you neverwere able to, would you still
run?
And I was like well, I mean, Iam going to run faster, you know
(09:03):
.
But it really made me thinkabout my why, behind the reasons
that I do things and I thinkand I don't know if it was like
this for you I'm a reallypositive person, I'm a solutions
oriented person, I am anactions oriented person, but
probably the three to six monthsafter I ended treatment were
some of the darkest days of mylife.
(09:23):
I just felt like my life wasover.
I felt like I had nothing tohope for.
I felt like I had been screwedand I felt like that I had
invested all of my life in beinghealthy, being this fit person
that really learned about health, ate really nutritious meals, I
mean all of this and now I wasleft with this super broken body
(09:48):
that didn't do what I wanted itto do and I just felt really
stuck and hopeless and dark andI didn't have the tools to
handle that.
I had to get help.
I hired a trauma therapist andI hired Alex and best move ever
Best move ever.
I don't know, Did you have thatexperience as well?
Sonya (10:06):
Oh my gosh, you would have seen me.
I was just sitting here noddingalong and absolutely my own
experience resonates very, verydeeply with exactly what you
experienced.
I refer to my life almost intwo different chapters.
I have life before cancer and Ihave life after cancer, and the
acceptance that my life and mybody and my quality of life
(10:26):
after cancer is very differentto what it was before took a
long, long time, and I have anincredibly vivid memory of
sitting on the couch next to myhusband and this is probably in
those three to six months posteverything finishing
hysterically sobbing because Iwas so angry at my body.
(10:47):
I think the words that I usedwere I did not make this happen,
but I have to fix it.
And that's so unfair because,like you, I mean, I had been a
personal trainer for 12 or soyears.
At that point in time, I wassuper fit, I was super healthy,
I was really happy.
My feeling at that point intime I was super fit, I was
super healthy, I was reallyhappy.
My feeling at that point intime was that my body had let me
(11:10):
down, my body had betrayed me.
I was really angry at my bodyfor doing that and that I was
the one left to pick up thepieces to make it better.
That was hard, it was reallyhard, and I think one of the
reasons I wanted to have thisconversation with you is because
it's so important for women tohear these stories, because they
(11:31):
do see you get on with yourlife and you get people reach
out to you and go how do Ithrive after cancer?
You're doing such an amazingjob and I speak and I have this
podcast and I do amazing things,but it all came as a result of
having to push through all thatdarkness and that really hard
stuff.
And you're right, we can dohard things and we do do hard
things, but the hard things arestill really hard.
(11:52):
I think the things that helpedme the most were definitely,
basically, the fact that I hadtrauma that I needed to deal
with.
I had counseling and I workedwith a kinesiologist and we
worked specifically on clearingtrauma energy out of my body,
and that was a huge turningpoint for me.
So, yeah, I absolutely resonatewith everything that you've
just described.
Shari (12:13):
Yeah, it's interesting.
I was thinking when you weresaying how about your anger and
feeling like your body hadbetrayed you?
You know there's also a lot ofmessaging from people on social
media and you know you do a deepdive into social media cancer
doctors and patients and whenyou, when you get cancer,
because you just want to feellike you want to know everything
(12:34):
at least I did and there's somuch messaging about you know,
don't do this, it causes cancer.
Don't do this, it causes cancer.
And I mean I coupled in thattime I had this paralyzing
terror that I was going to dosomething to make my cancer come
back.
I was going to eat, you know, aham sandwich, or you know have
a sip of wine, or you know dosomething.
(12:56):
And and I think that's why youknow there's do you follow Dr
Taplinsky on Instagram?
Sonya (13:02):
Eleanor.
Shari (13:02):
Taplinsky, she's lovely and she I really feel like
there's people like her andHelen Beely I love to.
She's a physio and she hadcancer and I think she's in
Australia as well, yeah, yeah, Ithink I started to recognize
really early on that everybodyin the cancer space was not for
(13:24):
me, and I think that was areally good line to draw,
because you do have thesefeelings of like why did I get
cancer?
Why the hell did I get cancer?
Sonya (13:34):
I got asked once in an online appointment.
So we're in a situation likethis with a naturopathic health
practitioner that I'd gone to tohelp me with I was having
really bad menopausal problemsand of course you know the
rhetoric is my breast cancer washormone positive, so therefore,
absolute closed doors.
No, you cannot have HRT.
You can't even go nearcomplementary medicines.
(13:56):
Like there's so many no's andso many you can't, you can't,
you can't and anyway I wasreally struggling.
So I did this call with thisnaturopath who pitched herself
as this specialist in women'shealth and would be really
helpful, and we had this call.
That was kind of a bit odd andI had made the decision that she
wasn't someone I was going towork with and the very last
question she asked me was sohave you thought about what
(14:17):
caused your cancer?
And I just sat there and ittook all of my energy to not be
reactive and I just went no, Ihaven't, because that's not a
good use of my time, but Ithought about it afterwards and
I was just so cross thatsomebody would be putting that
back onto me.
Yeah, and you're right.
(14:40):
There are so many um aspects ofthe cancer community and the
information that's out there andavailable.
Shari (14:49):
That is very fear-based well, and also I think that
markets well, I think if you cansay, you know, hey, you can
take this supplement or this,whatever people are afraid and
people want like any, like anyaspect of health.
People want something that theycan do, that's really easy and
doesn't require any lifestylechanges, and that makes that,
(15:10):
makes people victims ofpredatory marketing.
And so I just it really, reallyinfuriates me and you know I
have the same experience you hadwith that naturopath with some
people in my life and I thinkpeople are scared, like I
remember the same thing happenedto me when I went through a
divorce.
Like people would say, likewell, do you think it was
because you didn't eat dinner asa family together every night.
I think that's because peopleare trying to tell themselves I
(15:33):
do this thing, so that is notgoing to happen to me.
And I think it's the same withcancer.
You know, if I think people, ifthey can nail down what, what I
did wrong, then it won't happento them, won't happen to me,
yeah, it's a great way to lookat it.
Yeah, I mean, and it's reallyagain, it's just a way to kind
of like alleviate our fears.
But it is.
(15:58):
I did not.
I was absolutely unprepared forthe onslaught of mental health
difficulties that I had aftertreatment.
You know I, the anxiety, theabsolute, absolute depression
and just hopelessness, I, it wasjust, it was everything I could
do to just go on.
You know, that's just.
That's not me at all.
It's one thing that I I try tobe honest with people I talk a
lot with, like newly diagnosedpeople I'm sure you do too and
(16:21):
it's one thing that I, you knowyou don't want to scare people,
but you want to prepare themLike it's bad, it's really bad,
but like you can get through it.
You know, like anything else,but it's like, okay, what am I
going to do this hour?
Okay, I just need to get out ofbed, you know.
But yeah, it's really hard formenopause, really for menopause.
Like there are so many symptomsof menopause that I'm like why
(16:45):
the hell do we not know aboutthis?
Like it pisses me off, likewhat?
Why don't we know about this?
Sonya (16:52):
like yeah, a lot of the advocacy work that I do here I
extrapolate that out intogovernment and the funding and
the research.
It's not just our parents andgenerations before us haven't
prepared us, the health systemhas let us down and there is
this incredible loss of time andenergy because we're not
(17:15):
prepared.
If we just talk about menopauseeven from a natural perspective
the women that I speak toconstantly that experience
natural perimenopause andmenopause it's hard enough for
them.
But for those of us that gothrough an unnatural menopause,
and whether that's a surgical ora medically induced, or even
those that experience POI andthings like that there's just
this ginormous gap that'sliterally like a canyon that
(17:37):
everyone just falls into.
Shari (17:38):
Yeah, I mean, I didn't even realize I was.
So I'm a runner and you knowyour vaginal tissue is so dry
and so when you're running Imean you feel like you have a
bladder infection, there'spelvic pressure, and finally
went and got to see an oncologygynecologist that was like oh
yeah, your vaginal tissuesatrophied and like could anybody
have mentioned that to me?
(17:58):
Could literally anybody havementioned that?
Like that's just what's goingto happen to me and even getting
so, I do vaginal estrogen andI'm great, and I have hormone
receptor positive cancer as well.
But every single time I wouldgo to the pharmacy, I wouldn't
be allowed to take my medicine.
I had to get a conference andthe pharmacist would tell me how
this increased my risk ofbreast cancer recurrence and I
(18:20):
like that's old information.
I finally got to the pointwhere I printed out the correct
and like the nih documents andstudies and and I finally
switched pharmacies because I'mlike you're not accurate with
people yeah, and this is mydecision that I've made with my
doctor.
Sonya (18:36):
Like I don't need your help here, like I'm good and I
have this conversation going onconstantly hormone replacement
therapy, or MHT as we call ithere in Australia.
There is still this incredibleamount of gatekeeping and closed
doors and absolute no's, and Ivery much believe that any
(18:57):
conversation should be acollaborative conversation.
It should be patient led.
We need all the information tobe able to make the decisions
and that's what we rely on ourdoctors and our specialists for.
But I feel very strongly thatthey should not be in a position
to just shut you down and sayabsolutely no, you can't have
that.
I chose to take hormone therapy.
So I've been on hormone therapynow for about 12 months because
(19:18):
I did my research and I satdown and I understood what my
risk was of taking hormonetherapy, what my risk was of a
recurrence of breast cancerwithout taking hormone therapy,
and I was able to make thedecision that my quality of life
is more important to me rightnow than living in fear of a
recurring breast cancer oranother cancer as well.
(19:40):
And that took a lot for me togo through that process, find
the clinicians that I could havethose conversations with and
really conscious of when I haveconversations with other people,
that not everybody is capableof getting to that point where
they can make that decision andthat their fear of everything
that else that kind of couldpotentially come from that
overrides their ability to makethat decision.
(20:00):
And that's absolutely okay andI respect that for everybody.
But I get really cross that theclinicians are the ones so
often just shutting that doorand saying no, no, you can't.
Shari (20:11):
But also there's health risks of not doing hormone
replacement therapy.
I mean they don't even coverall of the cardiac risks from
let alone just menopause, butendocrine therapy as well.
Sonya (20:21):
And also bone health, like if we talk about bone
health and for someone that hasbeen through medical treatment
for a cancer, experienced andinduced menopause, and a lot of
the adjuvant therapies as wellhave significant impacts on bone
.
You know, that's just creatinga whole other problem for a
community down the track thatthen has to be addressed by the
healthcare system, and I justget so frustrated that there's
such short-sightedness down thetrack that then has to be
(20:42):
addressed by the healthcaresystem, and I just get so
frustrated that there's suchshort-sightedness in the
decisions that are made, andoften they're made for women
without the women being included.
Shari (20:52):
Absolutely, and I think I genuinely believe that it's
just a lack of informationbetween providers and patients,
because I mean, even when I talkto people who are newly
diagnosed, I'm like I want toknow everything, I want to ask a
million questions, and I'm suremy providers are like, oh my
goodness.
But I'm really nice though, butstill.
Sonya (21:12):
Yeah, but it's also, it's our health.
Shari (21:14):
Like we have every right to ask.
Right, I want to know what allmy options are.
I don't want you like, ifthere's 10 options, I don't want
you to tell me the two that youwant me to choose between.
I want to know what all of themare.
And it's one of the reasonswhen I had these uterine growths
and they were doing myhysterectomy, I I wanted
everything out, because I'm likeI had had a secondary colon
cancer and another secondaryprimary cancer and so, and so I
(21:39):
was like I'm not messing around,I don, I don't want my own
reason, I don't want myfallopian tubes there, I don't
want my cervix there, just takeit out.
And I had to fight with peoplefor that.
And I'm like, yeah, I don'tcare.
And then they didn't, they onlywanted to pay for part of it.
And I'm like, fine, how much isit?
Tell me how much it is to takefor, I'll pay for it.
(22:00):
But why isn't that beingoffered as an option to women?
Why aren't we told abouthormone replacement therapy?
Why aren't we told aboutvaginal estrogen?
These things can improve notonly our quality of life but our
relationships and our abilityto feel at home in our own
bodies, and I share yourfrustration very strong.
Sonya (22:21):
And it's interesting when we're on, you know different
parts of the planet, yet thefrustrations and the challenges
that we face are so, so similar,which is indicative of a global
issue of um, you know,education gap for clinicians and
a patriarchal um andmisogynistic health care system,
and I'm not saying that thatjust comes from male doctors, it
(22:41):
comes from female doctors aswell that it is definitely a
misogyny that's baked into thehealthcare system.
Okay, I feel like we shouldmove into some more of a
positive space, and one of theareas that I was really hoping
to explore with you was whatsteps did you take, tell us
about what lifestyle changes youdid make other than the trauma,
(23:01):
counselling and that sort ofthing have you used as levers to
really get you into this placenow, where you do feel so much
better?
I think?
Shari (23:08):
there's probably a mental health and work component and
then a physical component.
I think.
From the physical perspective,I just kept trying different
methods, like when I was runningI tried 80-20 running and I
just jumped into a bunch ofdifferent things.
I would try something and thenif it worked for a little bit
(23:28):
then I'd be like great, I'll gowith that for a little bit.
I did like walk run.
So from a physical perspectiveand like I had to, I had so much
joint pain, like I, for example, couldn't do a back squat, so I
got a.
I had a safety squat bar bar,did some safety squats.
I changed things up and wasn'tafraid to adapt and scale and
stop if something hurt and tryto find another exercise that
(23:50):
worked that muscle group.
I also started transitioningsome of my runs to trails so
that I could not worry about mypace but have a great experience
and be outdoors.
I think one of the main thingsthat really helped me and this
is something I had beforehand ofthe main things that really
helped me and this is somethingI had beforehand but it's just a
really great, solid communityof people that were a safe space
for me and allowed me to bevulnerable and real about what I
(24:14):
was experiencing and couldreflect back to me who I was,
who I've been and who I can bethrough their eyes, as well as
just a safe space to be mad andto be sad and to be afraid.
And I really feel like probablythat between my, I have a
(24:35):
Friday run group at my house.
We've been meeting since 2008and we run and then I make a big
pot of oatmeal and big pot ofcoffee and we all sit in my
garage and talk about life.
That group is my family and youknow they're the people that
you call one friend from thegroup.
For example, I had a baselineCT right after treatment and
(24:55):
they found lesions on my lungand my hip and needed PET scan
and I just texted the group andone of my like best friends came
over and she was like I don'tknow what to say, like but I'll
just stand by you, and likepeople not letting you be alone,
and like my husband, I mean, hewas there for everything and he
was the same.
(25:15):
And I feel like having yourpeople and whatever form that is
for you, whether it's a partner, whether it's friends, it could
be coworkers-workers, it couldbe online support groups, but
having people where you can bereal and it's safe is, I mean, I
don't feel like there's asubstitute for that for sure.
But then, athletically, I thinkI really invested myself in
(25:36):
focusing on the process andfocusing on sustainable,
consistent habits and I justtook like, for example, losing
weight.
I had just had a conversationwith Alex not long ago and I was
like like I lost all the weightbut I haven't been weighing
myself, I haven't been takingpictures of my body, I haven't
(25:57):
been even tracking macros.
I just I use a differentmodality to communicate my
nutrition to Alex and becausethose things felt very not
helpful for me in progressingforward, they felt like they
were very kind of the oppositeof progress in the way that I
needed.
So I basically focused on small, sustainable, boring.
(26:17):
But I will say that I ran myfirst marathon.
It was probably about a year,it was a little less than a year
out from treatment ending andit's by far like by over an hour
my slowest marathon I've everdone and I felt terrible.
It was really hard, it was hot,but I think allowing myself to
(26:40):
show up and be proud of what Icould do, even even if that felt
it feels hard to do somethingyou used to be really good at
and not be really good at itanymore.
It feels shameful in a wayqualifiers or apologies and show
(27:01):
up as I am and accept.
That is probably, if I'm honest,the biggest component as an
athlete that has allowed me toprogress, and that progression
has happened without focus onthe goals, without focus on the
outcome.
It's happened purely via focuson the effort, focus on what am
(27:21):
I going to do today.
It's just like when you'retraining for a really long
endurance event, right, andyou're like halfway through your
training and you're doing for amarathon, you're doing a 15
miler, and at the end of it youfeel utterly exhausted and you
think, how on earth am I goingto run 11 more miles?
But here's the thing you're notrunning 11 more miles today,
you're running 15.
And you had enough strength forthat and, I think, keeping
yourself like in the present.
(27:42):
There's a really great book,the Practice of Groundedness, by
Brad Stolberg, and that bookreally helped me, I think,
ground myself in good practices.
But also, you know, even if youcan't necessarily afford a
one-to-one coach, there's tonsof like online communities where
you can get that grounding andI think that's really helpful.
(28:10):
So I would say the main thingsare community show up.
Show up every day, and that canlook different.
Some days you don't have it inyou to go.
You know run or whatever.
Then that's okay.
If you were going to do a threemile run, go out and walk three
miles.
You know every single mile.
Find a picture of somethingcool or funny or whatever.
Always find a way to show upand I feel like if you show up,
eventually you'll get to whereyou want to go.
It's just takes longer than youthink.
(28:31):
It took longer than I thought.
It took a lot longer than Ithought, but I feel like this is
what I feel like.
It's like.
It's like you want thetransition to happen, you want
the forward progress to happen,and it doesn't happen and
doesn't happen.
And then all of a sudden it'slike all at once, it just it's
like a flood, but it isn't, isit?
It's.
It's really like you know.
I have this analogy like youknow, you're boiling water,
(28:52):
right, and if you, every time,you have a disappointing
exercise session because yourwater's not boiling, it's as
though you turn the heat off andthen you're losing all the heat
that you've built up.
So it's like, hey, maybe Ididn't add any heat today, but I
just kept the flame steady, andso eventually that water boils
really rapidly, but it's all theeffort that you put in before
(29:15):
that.
And I think those are thethings that people I don't know
if they don't want to hear it,but I think those aren't the
things that we grab on to.
We grab on to like the successstory, we grab on to like the
beauty from ashes, but there's alot of steps in between that
that are just boring, showing updoing things that are hard, you
know, and it's not glamorous,it's not, it's not fun, but it's
(29:40):
type two fun.
Sonya (29:42):
Yeah, yeah I love and it really does.
I think what I heard you saythere, the main things that were
important for you wereobviously the counseling and the
therapy, so getting that mentalhealth sorted out.
Meet your body where it's at mycoach that I work with, similar
to how you work with alex.
I have my own amazing coach,olivia, and she teaches from a
(30:04):
place of what she calls grit andgrace and it's like on some
days you can show up and you putin the grit because you've got
it in you and your energy levelsare there and you've you know
able to do it.
But on other days you show upand you need to show yourself
some grace because you know, forwhatever reason, the grit's not
there and you just acknowledgethat that's where you're at
today and, like you say, youknow that analogy of the boiling
(30:24):
water and that maintaining thatheat, you still show up, you
still do something, but you showyourself the grace to allow
yourself to release theexpectations that every workout,
every day, is going to be youat a hundred percent, because
it's not so.
I think that's very similarcoaching technique to what you
get from Alex, what I get fromOlivia, and I think it can be a
message to anybody that'slistening is just meet your body
(30:46):
where it's at and maintainconsistency, maintain a routine
and set that intention thattoday I'm going to exercise and
then when you get on the floor,if you're at the gym, or if you
get on the road, if you're outfor a run, just meet yourself
where you're at.
It's the fact that you got outthere and you put the work in to
show up today that's important.
Shari (31:08):
Yeah, absolutely.
I love that we're talking aboutthis because I think as women,
and especially with one another,we can be really guarded about
our failures, our difficulties,our struggles, because we feel
like everybody has it alltogether.
We don't want to be the onethat doesn't have it all
together.
I think it's really important.
I really love what you saidearlier about how you kind of
(31:30):
divide your life into two spacesbefore cancer and after cancer
and I think a really importantthing to recognize is that I
think that that's the space thatmenopause falls into as well,
and I think that it's reallyvaluable to be real with one
another that we're not goingback.
We're not going back to who wewere before, and the more
quickly and fully you can acceptthat, the better your life is
(31:55):
going to be.
But it's hard.
It is hard to accept it.
But I think it starts with theseconversations that we're having
now and being honest withourselves and each other and
saying like hey, you know, mybody doesn't look the same as it
did and I need to wrap my mindaround that, and that's okay.
And saying, hey, you know, Ifeel embarrassed that I can't
run with the same people I ranwith before.
(32:16):
Hey, you know, I'm havingtrouble having sex because it's
really uncomfortable, or I'm Ihave discomfort when I'm, you
know, riding a bike or running.
Does anybody else have thatissue?
Can we talk about that and justnot being afraid to be real
about what we're experiencing?
And also, I mean, I think it'sall good and well to be
(32:37):
vulnerable, but being presentand holding space for other
people's vulnerability is hardtoo, because I mean, it's one of
the reasons we tell lies toeach other, because it's easier
than it is to look somebody inthe eye and stay with them when
they're talking about somethinghard.
But I think that's where thechanges start, because I mean,
let's be honest, right, ifanybody's going to change the
(32:59):
world, it's going to be women.
It always has been, and I feellike it's the same way with
menopause, with cancer recovery.
If we can say to each other hey, this is where we're at, let's
stop and be here with each otherand figure out how to move
forward, I really think we canchange things.
I mean, I don't know if thatsounds Pollyanna, but I really
(33:20):
think we can.
Sonya (33:21):
No, absolutely I agree with you and it's one of the
reasons why I decided threeyears ago that I was going to
talk about this.
I was going to talk about mycancer, I was also going to talk
about menopause, and I'm a big,big believer in, I suppose, the
hero's journey, if you like, ifwe go through these experiences
.
But there has to be a purposefor that at the end of the road,
and for me, that purpose issharing my story and speaking to
(33:41):
other people and sharing theirstories, because it's through
stories that we learn and we canmake change and we don't repeat
mistakes.
You know, our generation hasbeen let down by so much
gatekeeping of stories andinformation, and I always say I
may not have a huge impact onthis current generation, because
what we've got is what we'vegot in many respects, but the
generations that come behind usdeserve so much better and it's
(34:05):
our job to make sure that weleave this place in a better
place for them.
Shari (34:09):
Yeah, and I think, even by having these conversations,
people in our age demographicare going to parent differently,
they're going to tell differentstories to the young women in
their lives.
And I think that that carriesso much value because when you
think about it I mean even thinkabout periods from generation
to generation and how that washandled and how that was
conversed about and taboo.
(34:30):
And it's always so cool to mehow, when you open up and talk
about something that you'rescared to death to share, how
quickly you realize people arein the same boat with you and
you are not alone.
And then they're not alone too.
And so I think that we canchange.
I think you're right.
(34:51):
I think we can change the storyof generations to come, and
it's going to come throughstorytelling and changing how we
talk to each other about ourbodies and how we talk to each
other about the things that weexperience, whether it's through
our periods or childbirth ormenopause, and just being honest
about that and not feeling likewe have to keep up to some
(35:12):
societal standard or expectationthat has been put on us.
That isn't real.
It's not real, like it's justsomething outside of us.
I mean, we can do whatever wewant to do, you know, but I
think it starts again withsharing our stories and our
truth and telling the stories tothe younger women as well.
Sonya (35:30):
Yeah, 100%, sherry.
Thank you so much for sharingyour story with us today.
Having this really beautiful,in-depth and so necessary
conversation, I'm excited toshare this with my community.
I think that there's a lot ofwhat we've talked about today
that will definitely go a longway to showing others how they
can show up for themselves andfor the other people in their
lives as well.
Shari (35:51):
And I just really appreciate you having a space
for this.
I think it's really necessaryand I think that it's going to
change how people see themselvesand how they move through the
process of menopause.
I really appreciate you.
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