February 3, 2025 • 66 mins
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What if two people named (K)Carl were on a podcast together? Join us as we explore this comedic potential and tackle the thorny subject of "Venom 2," which might just have missed its calling as a rom-com. Our conversation meanders through the ups and downs of TV series longevity with a spotlight on "Dexter," embracing both the source material's charm and the challenges series face when they start to wander off script. With nods to classics like "Prison Break" and "Community," we ponder the perfect series length and the eternal struggle prequels face in keeping audiences hooked.
Meanwhile, we shift gears to the realm of writing and gaming distractions, celebrating the minimalist beauty of screenwriting and chuckling over grammar quirks that trip us up, like rogue tildes. Our productivity gets a boost with a day filled with workshops and Sonic Origins gaming, yet we can't escape the ever-present specter of burnout. Letting our inner gamers loose, we wrestle with our love-hate dynamic with Mario Party, dissecting its evolution and Nintendo Switch offerings with a critical eye.
Our playful debates take us from the digital board game universe to the tantalizing topic of whether cereal qualifies as soup. We muse on Mario Party's crazy mix of strategy and luck, tip our hats to other games like "Dokapon Kingdom," and wrap things up with sandwich cutting techniques that could make anyone feel like a culinary artist. Sprinkle in some nostalgia for the cinematic flair of "Kingsman," and you've got all the ingredients for an episode that promises laughter, insights, and a few hearty debates about life's little oddities.
Follow all things Richard and Karl, and check out "The Minuet of Sorcery"
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Good afternoon, evening and everything in
between.
I am Richard, one of yourfantastic hosts of Richard and
Carl present Deep Space andDragons.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
And I am Carl, because we do this in
introductory order and notalphabetically.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
It's true, although it would be really funny if we
had two Carls and you never gotto go first.
True, although it would bereally funny if we had two Carls
and you never got to go first,because, like you do in your
heart, you are winning, but thedisservice is real.
So, I guess I'll open up withthe typical question what's new
(00:39):
with you?
Slash surprise movie review.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Surprise movie review .
Well, if you want a surprisemovie review, surprise movie
review.
Well, if you want a surprisemovie review, venom 2 was meh.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
They didn't lean hard enough into it being a rom-com.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
And it just felt a little bit rushed because they
kept it at a tight 90 minutes.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I mean it's kind of funny that that's now a tight Eh
it's a long story short.
Anywho, it's kind of funny thatthat's now a Titan.
It's a long story short.
Anywho, here's our 30 secondreview on Venom.
Aight done.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Alright, so what else is new in the Carlverse?
Well, okay, so back in 2004.
Oh Lord, that's long ago.
There was a book published.
It was called Darkly DreamingDexter and in 2006, it got
adapted into the hit televisionshow Dexter, about a serial
(01:34):
killer who works as a bloodspatter analyst and blood
spatter analyst in order to usepolice resources to find
criminals that have slippedthrough the cracks and killed
them as his victims.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
A more violent version of TV's hit TV show
Lucifer.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
And you know apparently the main Dexter
series.
The show has eight seasons.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yes, and I've heard six of them are good.
Six of them are good, and I'dlike the any particular seasons
that are noted as particularlybad or so there's some deep
irony about me as a person andthis might go into my what's new
as me section, might not, butserial killer show make me
queasy Me.
Never watch a person and thismight go into my what's New with
Me section, might not, butSerial killer show make me
(02:26):
queasy me never watch.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Fair enough.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
And I'm literally in a class on adjunct horror right
now, reading a book aboutsomebody who uses their own
blood to write novels and I'mlike, yeah, but it's cool.
Conceptual Character pulls outtheir spine and beats them with
it.
No problem, Ooh, paper cut no.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Well, pulls out their spine and beats them with it,
no problem.
Ooh, paper cut, no Well, I mean, the premise of the entire
first season is that there'sanother serial killer that
drains their victim of bloodcompletely, and so the blood
spatter analyst is intrigued,but forensically useless.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Eh, I love it.
It's like.
Which one do you think's theserial killer?
Well, not the creepy guy wholives alone and never hangs out
with us, who studies blood.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Oh no, no See, dexter is very good at blending in and
he found a girlfriend who hassome past trauma with abusive
boyfriends that doesn't want tobe that intimate.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
so then he doesn't have to get intimate, but he
still has a girlfriend to put onthe show anyway, I assume
you're going somewhere with thisinstead of just spending the
next hour talking about tv'sdexter, because I would have
prepared it some way well, okay.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
So I mean the first thing.
I just it's kind of like ageneral uh feeling that I have
towards long-running shows.
I feel like it's maybe aroundthree seasons where I start to
lose interest, because either itbecomes repetitive, where it's
(03:59):
the same thing happening overand over again and there's not
really anything new being addedto the story thing happening
over and over again and there'snot really anything new being
added to the story, or itbecomes contrived, where it's
like prison break, for example,how many prisons can they break
into and break out of?
Speaker 1 (04:18):
The TV show community says the ideal length is six
seasons in a movie.
I think that's excessive.
I'm with you that most of thebest things I've ever watched
come to like a cool 52 episodes.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Mm.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
So like season length matters, like four seasons, if
they're all 12 episodes, yeah,that's fine.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
But four seasons, seems to be like your TV show
strong.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
I don't actually remember how many seasons
Breaking Bad was.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Mm, I think it might be four, but I would have to
double check.
In any event, the first seasonis pretty much a straight out of
five.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
That feels right.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Although Breaking Bad is probably going to cut a
season, the first season ofDexter is a fairly close
adaptation of the first book,and then there are several other
books which diverges wildlyfrom there.
And firstly, there's a wholebunch of spin-off material from
(05:24):
the TV series, and so we've beenwatching this original Sin
Dexter, which follows him as a20-year-old who's just basically
learning how to kill people andnot get caught, and initially I
thought that it would be atough prequel series to have a
(05:45):
bad rep because there's nostakes.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
They have a bad rep because they're bad.
Show me a good prequel.
It's hard to do because they'rebad, unless you go a million
years in the past or don't useany of your cast.
If you want a prequel somethingyou don't use any of your cast,
like you want to prequelsomething you don't use naruto.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Well, see, uh, I kind of came into the the prequel
series with that kind of thoughtin mind that it's like, hmm, is
this actually going to be anygood?
Because like, how can there beany stakes?
See, if there's any hint of himmaybe being caught, I know he
can't be caught.
If there's any hint of himmaybe being caught, I know he
can't be caught.
If there's any hint of him orhis sister being in mortal
danger, I know that they can'tactually die or get mutilated in
any way, because they don'tfall in love until season 5
(06:33):
exactly.
It's like you know.
You know a lot about the future, but but then some people still
get elected anyway.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
And then the nuclear apocalypse clock goes a point
forward well see.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
The prequel did something I absolutely did not
expect, and spoiler alert ifanybody's watching it, because
the original scene is airingweekly right now.
But the chief of police seemsto be working for the cartel and
kidnapped his own son to makesure that no one would think
(07:12):
that he was the one who wascapturing the kids of other
police officials.
Yeah, and it was like you knowthat that's actually a genuinely
compelling and interesting plotline that I don't know how it's
going to go.
That's actually a genuinelycompelling and interesting
plotline that I don't know howit's going to go because it's
not at all tied to the Dexterseries, and I have high hopes.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I will be happy if it's good, but see the thing
about prequels and this getsthrown in my face a lot about
prequels.
Although there's been like thething about prequels and this
gets thrown in my face, a lotabout prequels.
Although there's been a coupledecent Star Trek prequels is
most prequels.
Would be better if they weretheir own show with their own
characters, instead of being aprequel, because this gains
nothing by being part of theDexter cinematic universe.
(08:00):
If this was like Todd and itjust followed a different serial
killer named Todd, you losenothing well, I mean.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
So another part of the draw to it is so.
Dexter's mother was also killedby the cartel when he was like
three years old, and then apolice officer adopted him and
realized he was a sociopath andtrained him to focus his serial
(08:29):
killer tendencies onto peoplewho deserve it Best parenting
Also the plot of Naruto.
Right, and the original seriesdoesn't really elaborate a whole
lot on the father'srelationship with the mother.
The father's name is Harry andthe original show doesn't really
(08:54):
elaborate on Harry'srelationship with Dexter's
mother.
And so there's a lot going onbecause you're following Dexter
as he's learning how to kill.
You're following a flashbackwhere Harry is remembering
Dexter's mother and how she wasan informant for them trying to
(09:16):
get the top members of thecartel, and there's tension in
this.
Like I know, she's going to getmurdered, but when?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
I will say Chekhov's murder is not the worst strategy
there.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Right.
And then, like I said, there'sthe main storyline where
Dexter's learning how to killand then the chief of police is
secretly child kidnapper, slash,murderer, and it's like it's
complex and nuanced enough andthe stakes aren't really
directly tied to Dexter and hisfamily.
(09:54):
So I get what you're sayingabout how it could just be in
someone's show and it doesn'tgain a whole lot from being part
of the Dexter universe.
But there is some intrigue thatthey managed to pull from it
being part of the Dexteruniverse.
But there is some intrigue thatthey managed to pull from it
being part of the Dexteruniverse.
But I don't know.
When I watched the originalDexter show though, I got to
(10:21):
season 6 and I just gave upbecause it was streaming weekly
at that point and it wasn't onNetflix yet and actually I got
kind of tired of the showbecause, again, like I say,
after a certain point they getkind of contrived.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
So it's funny like the contrived notion of how do
we make our story cycle happen,to make our plot happen.
What was it?
It was like at what point doesit start being the character's
fault?
Like I don't want to use OnePiece as an example, but like in
One Piece, every time, withoutfail, they end up in an island
(11:04):
fighting the government.
It's like yeah, I don't feelbad for you Because it's like oh
, like I'm trying to think of agood example, because this came
up recently where it's like youcome up with increasingly
(11:24):
contrived things to make theplot happen.
I think it was delicious in thedungeon, where it's like okay,
you have to make sure itgimmicks that all these monsters
are edible, but at what pointdoes it become absurd?
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Right, but now that my fiancé has gotten into
watching the original Sin showI'm not she's almost done
watching season 6 of theoriginal show, and then we're
actually going to watch season 7and 8 together, because I
haven't seen them.
But I have to now watch theshow and I'm also going to try
(12:05):
and read the books to see justhow different they are, because
a screenplay requires adifferent set of technical
skills than writing a novel.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
What?
No way, I would never know that.
It's not like I've takenscreenplay writing classes or
anything.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
It's not like I literally workshop one day as
play writing classes or anything.
I'm looking at you, jk Rowlingman, the second Fantastic Beasts
movie and the third one too.
But the second Fantastic Beastsmovie.
Jk Rowling wrote the screenplay, but I don't think she actually
studied how to write ascreenplay, because when you
(12:47):
introduce a bunch of characters,you can stop your novel to go
and explore their backstories abit and learn more about these
characters in ways that thecurrent characters don't even
necessarily need to know.
But it's still interesting andthe flow of the story isn't
necessarily disrupted.
But there's this scene wherethey're planning a heist in the
(13:11):
movie the second FantasticBeasts movie and it just stops
for this flashback for everysingle party member.
And it's just so disruptive tothe flow of the movie because I
don't know how you convey thatinformation and how much of that
information was even relevantwhen you have such a short, so
(13:33):
limited screen time.
And it's made me a little bitsad because I really enjoyed the
first Fantastic Beasts moviebut the other two it's like so
Fantastic.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Beasts 2 and and three I have a deep hatred of,
because I stopped being aboutfantastic beasts and the beast
wrangler, like right becameperiod peace, wannabe drama,
fanfic-y, just.
Oh, it's like, why do you wantto be a political thriller?
I want to watch a guy write akelpie.
(14:05):
What are you doing?
It's like if you did a prequeltrilogy for Star Wars and had to
talk about trade unions insteadof pew, pew, zoop, zoops.
Sometimes you want to give thepeople what they want, and they
want fantastic beasts and whereto find them.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
In any event, what's new with me is that I'm
currently wading through theDexter universe and all of its
related media.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Okay, I was about to say from your screenplay clip.
I'm like did you actually lookat the screenplay?
Because I would have given youkudos Because it's easier to
look at the screenplay, but it'sa lot easier to do if you
actually look at how screenplaysare written.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
No, no, I know I don't have the technical.
I'm not sure I have thetechnical skills to be an author
in general, but I know I don'thave the technical skills to be
a screenplay writer, becausethat's no way.
Screenplay is the easiest onescreenplays are easier than the
novels oh, absolutely so,screenplays or let's even go
stage plays.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Let's go stage plays.
You're actually encouraged togive as little details as
possible that aren't likespecific dialogue, so your
actors can act in your settingcan setting and your prop can
prop.
So because you have a crew youdon't actually choreograph a
fight screen in your screenplay.
That's for the choreographers todo so you would just be like
(15:34):
it's over Carl, I have the highground, and then everyone else
has to figure out how to do that.
It's awesome.
You might be like enter leftcamera, pan up.
It's over attic and I have highground and it's like, yeah, no,
they want you to put in.
Less is more in thesesituations so the other people
could do their jobs yeah, if Iwent for a living.
(15:56):
I'm like oh yeah, on page.
Each page is one minute intothe screenplay.
They're formatted deliberatelyto do that, so so I could be
like oh yeah eight minutepost-credits stinger, dramatic
pun goes here.
I'm like, yeah, formulaic, like, oh man, if I was writing a
weekly sitcom like a BrooklynNine-Nine.
I'm like, yeah, this is awesome.
(16:16):
All I have to do is be like Xperson says Y.
Maybe a note about how, maybenot.
Maybe.
I'll just trust Terry Crews.
It's great.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Well, anyways, what's new with you there, Richard?
Speaker 1 (16:32):
So a lot of my schooling is doing workshops and
for the plottiest of twists toall of my fellow students who
clearly listen to my podcastevery week, I had a really
strong workshop group so I endedup at school an extra half hour
because everyone was beingproductive and thoughtful and
intelligent and I'm like yeah,this is my second last workshop
of the year and I got competentpeople who care Amazing.
(16:56):
I feel like the next workshopis not going to be that.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
The final workshop of the year will be something
terrible.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Well, it's funny because, like, my day was
literally going to the office,do copy editing for three hours,
do homework for two hours, goto class, workshop for four
hours.
Like, what did you do today?
Oh, I edited and I workshoppedand I wrote and I, unironically,
had an awesome day.
I had a full 20 minuteconversation about whether or
(17:26):
not you capitalize a questionafter a semicolon.
What a day.
Huh, and it's after a semicolon, no, but after a traditional
colon if it forms a completesentence.
Yes, yes, you do weird things.
There's a lot of rules you needto like actually write because
(17:46):
I'm working on the style guidefor redacted right and there's a
lot of rules you don't realizeare rules until two people do
the same thing differently andyou realize, crap, we need a
rule right so like, for example,one person had a number range
that was one hyphen three.
Another person had one that wasone m dash three.
I didn't think I needed a ruleto tell people you use hyphens
(18:07):
for number ranges, but now we do.
Or it's like oh, you put periodsbetween each letter of your
acronym.
Why?
Oh, sometimes you didn't Guessthat's a rule now, so there's a
lot of that.
I like when the universe givesme a thing to hyper-focus on and
(18:28):
send rage to, that has nofeelings, because it's like ah
yeah, I'm going to get mad atthe practice cards.
It's their fault, not thepeople who wrote them.
They're long gone, doesn'tmatter.
The card itself is my enemy.
How dare it?
How dare it have such a weakuse of white space cur?
How dare it start three out offour bullet points with I?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Oh, that's rough.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Right, like you gotta fix it.
And then you're like do I addthat to the rule?
It's like no, there's no way,that'll come up often.
Oh, I guess it does.
I should probably put that inthe first practice document.
Shouldn't have to tell someonethis, but you know.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
There's lots of things that you think you
shouldn't have to tell someone,but then it turns out they do.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
So you know the symbol above the tab key, the
like squiggly line thing, andI'm not actually sure what
punctuation that is.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Someone was using one of those and I wasn't sure how
to Google what it is.
Okay, let's see, I don'tactually know what that piece of
punctuation is or means, butapparently it's important enough
to make it onto the keyboard.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Okay, so it's called a tilde.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
I think I was calling them Tildos today.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Tildos.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
I regret nothing.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Okay, where's my phone at?
It's gone off.
I need to make sure.
Oh, to tell me that my phone isconnected to my computer.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Good job.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
A symbol similar to a Tildi.
No, that's, I don't know.
Let's see An accent placed overa Spanish letter or Portuguese.
No, I don't really know whyit's on our keyboard.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
So why was it on one of the cards I was editing?
I'll never know.
Shouldn't have been so my daysuper exciting?
Shouldn't have been so my daysuper exciting, looking at
different novel contests toenter, won a scholarship, did a
bunch of school stuff.
All in all, a good day and thatdoes sound like a good day but
(20:39):
what's new hasn't really changedfrom last week, where I'm like
I'm doing all these events thatI burned out.
How about this week I'm doingall these events that I burned
out?
How about this week I'm doingall these things that are less
burned out?
Oh, I also played a crap ton ofSonic Origins.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Ah, yeah, because you saw the Sonic movie, the Sonic
3, recently.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
So Sonic Origins is the best way you can do a
remaster.
So, not only did they addwidescreen to all of the games
without like stretching, it bylike actually like redrawing the
frame, so it's wider.
They also retroactively addedfour playable all four playable
characters to Sonic 1, cd 2 and3 so.
(21:17):
I'm like, oh, sonic 1, thatdidn't have Super Sonic and you
can only play a Sonic.
I can now play a Sonic andTails and collect the seven
emeralds to go Super Sonic.
This is sweet.
It made the older game better.
Yeah, I'm gonna play throughSonic CD as Amy Rose and save
her damn self.
It's great, it's good stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
That is pretty funny.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
And they just did little intro outro cutscenes For
a collection.
I'm so used to Nintendocheapness of there being like
$80 if you want Super MarioAll-Stars again.
That actually happened and itwas just the port of the SNES
game for the Switch.
And then it's like how would youlike not only these four Sonic
games with a bunch of newfeatures and a new story mode,
(21:57):
and we made it that you can justretry the bonus stages
infinitely.
And we got rid of lives andinstead you get coins to unlock
things.
Instead of lives.
They give you coins to buythings from the gallery Because
they're like why would we giveyou lives?
You can just restart, we don'tcare.
And also they just threw inevery game key or Sonic game for
fun and I'm like, well, thatwas a good use of $12.
(22:18):
And I'm just like, yeah, thisis great.
So that's what I've done isprocrastinated being a writer by
playing Sonic while I wasn'tbeing a writer.
Time to move into today's topic, which I was originally going
to pivot off of Dexter, Becauseyou know what else probably has
a really high murder rate.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
What?
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Digital board games, particularly Mario Party.
Why did you want?
To talk about Mario Party todayparticularly Mario Party.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Why did you want to talk about Mario Party today?
Well, I mean the main thing.
I kind of wanted to complain abit because what?
Yeah, I know Super Mario Party.
I love Super Mario Party.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Oh, I thought I was thinking 8.
You were thinking Mario Party?
Oh, I thought I was thinkingeight.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
The one you were thinking.
Mario Party eight, yeah, no,like Mario Party one is
absolutely brutal, like it's sounfriendly as compared to even
number two.
Number three is kind of wherethey hit their stride with their
formula of how charactersinteract on the map and how the
(23:31):
map interacts with characters,and I feel like it's a tried and
true formula that they juststuck with up to Mario Party 9,
I think is the last one beforeSuper Mario Party, I think is
the last one before Super MarioParty.
And Super Mario Party felt likeit was supposed to be a
(23:53):
reinvigoration of the franchisewhere they were going to try new
and interesting things to shakeup the world.
They tried to shove in everymode too.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
They tried to shove in every game mode they could.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Well see, I mean I, I enjoy the the river rafting
mode, where you're on a rafttrying to get to the end and you
have to hit and get, you haveto collect time clocks it was
the friendship.
I, I really did enjoy that modebecause then then you have to do
hit balloons with mini games,uh, and then do well on the mini
games to get more time so youcan actually make it to the end.
(24:26):
I really it was quite clearly agimmick.
That wasn't going to make itinto the next version, oh yeah,
but I liked it.
And then you know they hadtheir obligatory rhythm games.
Where you like they're motiongames but you like dance to the
music or whatever Dance to themusic.
Then obviously they have theminigame mode where you can just
(24:52):
free play minigames.
And then obviously they alsohad the classic mode, which is
just a four player brawl whereyou're on the map and each
person is trying to race to thestar and get the most coins and
play mini games to collect coinsand what not.
But the game mode that I washoping would not be a gimmick
(25:15):
was their new partners yeah, theco-op squares, because that
felt very much so mario party,but a new, fresh take on it,
right?
Um, and I was actually a littlebit sad because there were only
four maps on super mario party.
(25:35):
Uh, partly, partly because theyput some development into this
free-form squares mode whereeach player had a different
custom dice block and you couldpick up allies to be able to use
their dice blocks and they addto your role and you share your
role with your partner.
There's so much I enjoyed aboutthe team mode that they added
(26:00):
to Super Mario Party and I wasreally hoping that that was
going to be the future of MarioParty.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
So to pivot off that pretty smoothly, because Super
Mario Party is a game that comesup a few times when I have
gatherings at my friend's houseand things like that.
It's a good game for that, eventhough it has the mix of motion
controls and classic minigames.
And the thing is, though, superMario Party kind of did its job
(26:26):
too well when they announced agame.
After that, I'm like, why wouldI bother?
I already have a Mario Party.
But, more importantly, it'slike still debatable whether or
not it's actually like, whetheror not it's actually like better
.
You know, like sometimes likeis Mario Party 3, because it's
janky and terrible, actually thebetter game, because you're
(26:48):
trying to play it semi tipsywith your friends to begin with
well.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
I mean, like I say, if I wish they had invested more
resources into the freemovement mode, because that was
fresh and interesting.
But with the release of SuperMario Party Jamboree, which
basically Super Mario Party 2,they cut the teams mode, and I
(27:17):
appreciate that they cut theteam's mode.
Ah, moment of silence.
I appreciate that it freed updevelopment for the game boards
themselves, because there's moregame boards and I think they're
more well-designed, with uniqueand interesting mechanics, and
I really, really like the set ofgame boards that they have for
Super Mario Party Jamboree.
(27:38):
But one of the claims to famefor Super Mario Party Jamboree,
but one of the claims to famefor Super Mario Party Jamboree,
I guess I'll just call itJamboree going forward.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
You can do the whole thing or.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
S-M-E-J.
I'm just going to go withJamboree.
One of the benefits of Jamboreeis that they have over 130
minigames I think was the numberthey quoted which probably
means they have 131.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Which probably means they have 70 and then 70
reskills.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
For whatever reason, some of the motion minigames
it's like they really like thisone particular motion where
you're twisting and turning thecontroller to try and pedal a
tricycle, and they try to usethat as often as they can, it
seems, and I just absolutelyjust can't figure out that
motion.
I don't know what they'retrying to actually get me to do.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
I'm going to make a hot take here.
The Switch put out all of itsbest games within the first two
years and hasn't put out asingle good game in the
following seven.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Because it's like Breath of the Wild amazing.
Breath of the Wild 2, electricBoogaloo Not actually better
Mario.
Kart peak Stop there.
Smash Bros peak Stop there.
They just kind of capped out.
Other than Pokemon, legends,arceus, they just kind of were
done.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Yeah, I mean, I guess that's fair.
I'm still excited for theSwitch 2, but I'll see.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
I'm not right now.
I might be when they announcethe right software.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Back to Jamboree.
I don't know why this becamepart of the development ethos.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Oh, because everyone at Nintendo who's over the age
of 70 needs to retire over theage of 70 needs to retire.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
But there's also a lot of minigames where it's last
man standing or first person toget to the finish and for some
reason, when the last man isstill standing, they let that
player go as far as they want toor can go.
(30:01):
So the other players have beenknocked out and the last player
is like you know what I feellike being a jerk, and I'm just
going to do my best to actuallymake it to the end and make you
guys watch me, even though thegame knows that I've already won
, because if you just killyourself in the minigame don't
(30:23):
unload yourself.
But anyway, if you just end theminigame early, you still get
full credit for being the victorof the minigame.
And then they kind of expandedon the idea of the allies that
add to your dice roll and havespecial abilities.
(30:45):
I don't even know.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
If I like that mechanic, I'll get back to you.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
I'm kind of 50-50 on how it worked in Super Mario
Party because they were clearlypowerful, but there's so much
variance that Super Mario Partybecause they were clearly
powerful, but there's so muchvariance that nothing that you
do in the game actuallyguarantees that you'll win
unless you manage to get fourmore stars than the opposing
(31:15):
team.
But you need a prettysignificant gap in stars to
actually be able to guaranteethat you're going to win,
because there's just so muchvariance.
And that's actually kind ofpart of a part of what I like
about the game, uh, is that itfeels like their strategy and
your, your uh choices matter,but then at the end of the day,
(31:35):
uh, even someone who didn'treally do very good throughout
the game can still win.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Which is why my friend Cassie, who I'm just
going to dox here on thispodcast, is a relatively
competitive gamer, contrary toher entire ambiance as a human
being.
So when we were playingFlamecraft a few weekends ago
and we got to the end where itwas either me or her or one
other player that would win thehatred's real.
(32:04):
But the thing is people likethat take a lot of psychic
damage in Mario Party Becausethey can lose to a player who
hasn't been thinking at all, andthey don't mind losing to a
player who's been thinking I'mmuch the same way, I'm throwing
Cassian under the bus todescribe my own foibles who's
been thinking I'm much the sameway, I'm throwing Cassian under
the bus to describe my ownfoibles?
I am fine losing at Mario Partyto someone who's actively been
trying to beat me at Mario Party.
(32:26):
I don't like losing at MarioParty to someone who hasn't been
trying to beat me at MarioParty.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Well, in any event.
Coming back to the ally systemfrom Super Mario Party, I didn't
mind it.
I thought that they were verypowerful, but I found that they
actually didn't affect theoverall balance of the game.
Ah, and I feel like it's thesame way in Jamboree that they
(32:54):
don't really affect the overallbalance of the game in Jamboree,
that they don't really affectthe overall balance of the game,
but instead of being the firstperson who gets there and gets
the ally, you have to play anally minigame and each character
has their own unique minigame.
I'm pretty sure, like most ofthem either don't have a timer
(33:18):
and someone literally has tocomplete the challenge, or have
a timer that's's like four orfive minutes.
So it's like you come up toWaluigi and now everyone has to
play pinball for five minutes.
And well, I might beexaggerating, maybe it's only
three minutes, but you know oneperson's at a thousand points
(33:44):
and the next person's at 200points.
It's pretty clear who's won andyou're not racing to a specific
score.
There's no, you just have toplay through this whole game.
It's a very weird design choiceto have made so many mini games
and they just keep going.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
So what's really funny about this?
And I was thinking about this alot during your vengeance
tirade against Mario Party.
So last week they announced aremastering of the earlier
Dokopan Kingdom games.
Right, and my first thought was, yeah, another Dokopan Kingdom
game.
And then I, like sad memed,look out the window where I'm
like if only I had someone whowould lock themselves in a room
(34:27):
with me for three days to play avideo game, board game.
But that's kind of the joke isme and you have played some
stupidly long games before.
But if the game feels complexenough, you get invested in it,
like if you came out to visitand we did a started up before
the king too, it is possible, wewould pull an all-nighter
playing for the king too that ispossible, perhaps.
Even likely or dokapon kingdomor whatever.
(34:49):
But it's funny for mario partybecause you have so little
control that in dokapon kingdomwhen you get wrecked you always
know that you can then like, tryand come back through strategy
or spite.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Where Mario Party just kind of makes you sit there
and take it by the sounds of itand your problem's that I can't
be scheming my vengeancebecause Waluigi's playing
pinball.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Yeah, yeah.
That basically seems to be thementality of these minigames,
where it's just like it feelslike they just rush to put as
many minigames in there as theycan and then they forgot to make
them mini.
Yeah, like ten turns inJamboree takes an hour and a
(35:39):
half.
10 turns in the group mode ofSuper Mario Party takes 60
minutes.
There's like an extra half hourthat they shoved into the game.
That is basically just moreminigame.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
What's interesting is , like I'm thinking about Mario
Party competitors that have comealong over the years, like
we've done the Raving Rabbits,the novelty wore off pretty
quick We've done.
I did the Rugrats Mario Partyfor 64, like bajillion years ago
.
Okay, there was like theminigame Bomberman game where
(36:18):
we're like they have afour-player minigame mode I'm
like, but the best mode is justbomber man.
Why are we playing mario party?
because for a while everythingon the wii wanted to use wii
motion controls and forcingright and it's like mario party,
I don't even know, is actuallybetter than like xbox risk or
(36:38):
xbox monopoly, like literallyjust digitizing the classic
games, so you don't even know isactually better than Xbox Risk
or Xbox Monopoly, like literallyjust digitizing the classic
games so you don't have to setthem up, or almost comparable to
the games designed to beminigame things Like.
What was it?
I was playing one the other daywith a friend called Party
Animals which was just like abudget indie Mario Party.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
It was probably straight up better.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Because the joke is that Mario Party, the
environment you're playing it inthe game itself doesn't really
matter.
Like Nintendo Land is just aworse Mario Party.
But you had good Nintendo Landthings, or like Wii Sports
Resort, was just a Mario Party,at least the way we played it.
(37:21):
Because, we would just rotatethrough random minigames.
Or go classic WarioWare.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Well see, but part of what makes Mario Party and
other similar games stand out isthe board game aspect of it,
and you can't really justsuccessfully shove that into
another game, famous examplebeing the.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Smash Bros, the Smash .
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Bros Thank you the.
Smash Bros one, it just didn'treally function.
They're like yeah, it's a boardgame, but no, Smash Bros is not
a board game.
It's not meant to be a boardgame.
You can't just add that in andexpect it to actually be good.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
I mean it could have been, though, because they
half-assed it.
The board was just the cartsthat go in a circle.
They didn't commit.
If you made a full-lengthDokopan, but instead of card
battling it was a one minutesmash bros match, you have to
commit to making just a fullboard game that does that.
It's like, yeah, st gundamgachapon wars, for example, and
(38:33):
this is a hot take didn't evenneed the strategy game part.
They're like yeah, you gotversus, you got arena, you got
infinite dungeon.
Also, we have a full onstrategy game here and we
decided to make it four playerand I'm like what You're just
like?
Let's just Put in everythingthis game engine can possibly do
.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Oh, I love that development strategy the SD
Gundam Gachapon Wars.
It has so much content and theydid as much as they possibly
could.
Strategy the SD Gundam GachaponWars is it has so much content
and they did as much as theypossibly could.
With that Can I point you knowwhat they didn't do?
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Which I would do if I was doing a re-release of it.
Add a board game mode with SDGundam-themed mini -games each
round.
Be like Don's a big Sam, Jumponto White Base.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Mm.
Yeah, there are some thingsthey could have done.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
It's kind of funny.
On the alternate end, though,we have Jackbox games, which are
, like, so far removed frombeing an actual game.
Jackbox game is to Mario Party,as Cards Against Humanity Is to
Call of Cthulhu, like they'rejust Ice breaking party games at
that point, like Jackbox is.
(39:49):
Literally, we took drinkinggames and made them digital
games instead.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Yeah, but they're great for their own reason.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Yeah, jackbox is Is a great series of fun and
interesting games that do lendwell to a party ambiance, for
sure well, it's just funnybecause, like the kind of gamer
I am, like I said, if you wereto be like, hey, let's play a
single game of Call of Cthulhu,but it's digital, so the pieces
set themselves up, I'd be rightthere for that.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
But like the Mario Party problem, like I've never
been super into.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Mario Party, this digital, so the pieces set
themselves up.
I'd be right there for that.
But like the Mario Partyproblem, like I've never been
super into Mario Party becauseI'm not lucky and I'm not quite
skilled enough to get by onskill alone, Well, see another
one of my critiques aboutJamboree.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
For sure, 1, 2, and 3 Mario Party, winning minigames
didn't guarantee that you wouldwin the game, but it had a huge
impact on how likely you were towin, as it should, particularly
in Jamboree.
I will get that minigame awardevery time.
(41:01):
It's like you're the minigamechampion, that's right, but we
didn't give out a star for it,so you didn't get any bonus for
that and, uh, you'd still loseeven you won pretty much every
minigame.
That's rough, yeah, yeah, andit's kind of annoying and I just
(41:22):
.
The Super Mario Party kind offeels similar, where winning the
big games doesn't actuallyguarantee that you're going to
win the game, but it feelscloser to the older school
spirit where mini games areactually almost as important as
the game board.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
And then Warrior Wares just on crack, just on
crack cocaine.
Sadly, my Sonic collectiondidn't come with the Sonic Mario
Party they released on theDreamcast.
I assume it's bad, but itexists and it's like.
What's it called?
I'll get back to you, but they,totally, for the Dreamcast,
(42:03):
released Sonic, something orother which was just unabashedly
Sonic Shuffle.
That was it.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Which is.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Mario Party, but with Sonic characters traveling
around the board in turns andcollecting gems while taking
part in numerous four-playerminigames.
The fact it's never beenreprinted on anything that
wasn't the Sega Dreamcast tellsme everything I need to know.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
So we've been describing these games as board
games, but Mario Party inparticular, there's no way that
you could physically replicatethat non-digitally, and so it's
board game themed.
(42:50):
But is it really actually aboard game?
Speaker 1 (42:53):
So I'm going to go and give the semantics answer
and then the real answer.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
I'm going to go and give the semantics answer.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
And then the real answer, Semantics.
Is it played on a board and isit a game?
Yes, it's a board game, adigital board game, but a board
game nonetheless.
However, there's this like gunsand bullets game.
I played one time whereeveryone had a foam gun and you
had to.
Between rounds of this boardgame, a timer went and you had
(43:23):
to point to who you thought wasguilty and go pew-pew and then
shoot a foam dart at them.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
And that's a board game, but debatably, once you
physically get up and startthrowing hacky-sacks at each
other, that's about as much of aboard game as Mario Party,
right?
Sure, you're using a video gamefor the mini-game component,
but realistically you could subthat with everyone playing Rock
Paper Scissors against eachother and the winner gets five
(43:47):
coins, and the board game wouldstill function.
So I do think the mini-gamecollection style game calling it
a board game, video game isjust correct and counting those.
If it was a board game night,someone's like why don't we do a
round of Mario Party?
I don't think they're wrong.
Like, you're no longer sittingat a table, you're sitting on a
(44:07):
couch, scaring at a TV screen,so you lose a bit of the vibe,
but you wouldn't really losemuch of it.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Okay.
So like yeah if it was, bring agame to board game night and
you rolled up with Sonic Shuffle, I'd be like I'll allow it.
Well, but so you mentioned Forthe King in passing,
specifically For the King 2.
It was free on.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Xbox Game Pass this month.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
It's.
I would say that also fallsinto a similar category where
it's a board game, but that onekind of interests me because
there are so many fewer hiddenchoices and things that are just
impossible to replicate in reallife, because you see the
number of checks that you needto make, based on what stat,
(44:54):
what your probability of thatstat is, and it's basically all
dice rolls.
So you could theoreticallyrecreate that entire game as a
physical board game, the onlyproblem being the physical space
that we require for such alarge hexagon map.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
oh, you absolutely could and, like having
successfully played call ofcthulhu, has really opened my
eyes to how much effort peopleare willing to put in to set up
and play a game, because Call ofCthulhu, the co-op game.
I don't know if you've ever setup a game of Call of Cthulhu.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
I have not.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
So it involves a board twice the size of a risk
board.
Item cards, monster cards,character cards.
Players select a character.
Characters get health tokens.
Characters get MP tokens.
Characters get item cards.
Characters get spell cards.
There's tokens on the board totrack monsters, tokens on the
board to track the calendar,event cards, city cards,
(45:48):
exploration cards.
A monster deck that flipsitself over and transforms the
monster and like about aprobably 20 baggies of materials
go in this game.
So it's like the setup for thisgame is like a 20 minute setup
to get all the parts where theyneed to be.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Right.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
And that tells me that we could just set up a full
Dokopan Kingdom game and peoplewill do it if you find the
right people.
Because, like, what blows mymind for Call of Cthulhu is,
it's a cooperative game whereyou have to beat the monster or
just lose.
And cooperative games are soweird to me because I'm like the
dev difficulty it must take tomake a game where the game plays
against you on a gooddifficulty curve to feel
(46:27):
challenging but not unfair.
It's so much harder than tomake a game balanced against
other players.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Right.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
Because it's like you gotta make a game balanced
against four human beings thatfeel like they're outsmarting a
machine without having a machinebecause you just get punch
cards.
So I think that's like kind ofa recurring theme, is like me
and you tend to lean towardslike the co-op video game, board
games.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
Right.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Or co-op, competitive .
Dokkan Kingdom has actuallytotally just cut through, but it
appears like it's cooperativeuntil it's not.
It is the longest of long congames ever made.
But yeah, you hit a certainpoint where it's like to make
your board game elaborate enough.
Just be digital, like For theKing.
I believe we could just makeFor the King, but it would be
(47:19):
less convenient right.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
So I mean obviously the.
The digitized versions of boardgames are just straight-up
board games and it is veryconvenient.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
I love straight-up digital risk so much more
because I have a button thatjust speed battles the two
territories hmm, I kind of wantto change risk a bit.
I had this idea where to makerisk more efficient.
You got the number of faces onyour dice equal to the troops
that were there, and they scaledup on dice size and you both
rolled to see how many of theother sides you killed.
(47:51):
So like, if you had 20 guys,you rolled a d20, and if I had 6
, I rolled a d6.
So if you roll 20 on your 20 andI roll 6 on my 6.
You lose 6 and I lose everybody, and you obliterated them into
base and that makes every fightlike one dice roll, or two at
most, I don't know if it worksout mathematically the same, but
(48:12):
that's how I would do it Justscrew Risk.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
We've already talked about how Risk is one of the
worst classic board games outthere yet it's so close to being
awesome.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
I think that's what gets me.
It's like the fancy risk.
It's like as soon as you addsome control over this variance,
the game gets good again butclassic risk is just not good
and I've come around on monopoly, oh well.
So first off, if you remove freeparking, so you're not just
getting money out of the notgood, and I've come around on
Monopoly.
Oh Well.
So first off, if you removefree parking, so you're not just
getting money added to thesystem and you play with a turn
(48:47):
limit, especially if you have adramatic countdown clock going
on.
Right it's a reasonably lengthgame because you've got rid of
the exploit that made itinfinite.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Right.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
And it's a bartering game.
Like the variance is 90.
Like the variance is 90% like.
The variance is probably aquarter of the game.
And then it's how well can youbarter?
Speaker 2 (49:07):
Right.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
I don't know.
I've come around on it a bit,not too much Like.
There's just better games likeFlamecraft is just better
Monopoly in every meaningful way.
For one thing, you get a dragonowning a bakery.
The dragon's name is Pan and itbakes bread.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
Oh, how clever.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yes, hey.
If you think Monopoly's betterthan a game where you can have
your lavender dragon open a teashop, you're an idiot.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Lavender the scent of evil.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
Probably Sounds accurate, but like to loop this
back around to any sort ofsemblance of focus.
So it sounds like you recommendSuper Mario Party and don't
recommend Super Mario PartyJamboree, proving my earlier
theory that Nintendo has notgotten better in the seven years
between those games.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
Has it been that long since Super Mario Party?
I don't know, probably.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
It's been long enough to be like, if you have a Mario
Party and you built the gameengine, put in the characters,
put in the boards, put in theice roller and then you put out
another Mario Party, it shouldjust be better in every way and
you shouldn't have to cutanything.
It should have the entirety ofthe last Mario Party in it.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Uh, super Mario Party came out in 2018.
Mario Party Jamboree came outlast year, so there's about five
years in between the two.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
Imagine that was your homework.
Someone gave you five years togo from Super Mario Party to
Super Mario Party Jamboree andyou did that, accomplished that.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
Yeah, that's Well, like I say A, I haven't unlocked
all the content for Jamboree,but B.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Unless it starts literally just making you Bailey
Spiked Dark Cherry HotChocolates.
Speaker 2 (51:04):
Bailey Spiked, dark Cherry, hot Chocolates, I don't
know.
Speaker 1 (51:07):
Yeah, I'm just saying , if the game doesn't start just
making you cocktails, itdoesn't have very good secret
features to justify it.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
Okay.
Well, like I said, the amountof time they spent developing
that team mode for Super MarioParty clearly took away from the
amount of time they spentdeveloping their game boards.
Yeah, and so I spent developingtheir game boards, yeah, and so
I believe that the game boardsthey have for Jamboree are
(51:37):
probably the best game boards inany Mario Party to date.
The game boards themselves areabsolutely phenomenal.
I love them.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
That is a fun twist.
Speaker 2 (51:49):
It just sounds like the mini-games, on the other
hand, Well, like I say, theyadded 50% more time to your game
.
That appears to just bemini-games and I don't really
appreciate that extra half hourof just mini-games.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
So I was looking up similar party games, right
Mm-hmm, and ever go up like aclicking rabbit hole in the
background during one of ourepisodes every now and then so I
was looking up like other marioparty type games.
Right, you know what game hasthe highest score for a mario,
blatant mario party type game?
Totally spies, totally partyfor the wii has like a 5.5 and a
(52:30):
4.5 respectively and I'm like Iclicked on this as a bit.
If this is actually good, thatis hilarious.
Video game based on theFrench-Canadian anime-influenced
television series Totally Spiesfor the PS2 and the Wii.
It's like, wait, if that'sactually a good game, that is
(52:53):
amazing because it should not be.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
It sounds like we have a Deep Space and Dragons
Plays episode coming up.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
I mean kinda yeah, because that sounds hilarious.
I mean I do like the idea ofpivoting some of our gaming
streams to being us playing justrandom crap, because I'm always
on team.
Try this awful game.
Speaker 2 (53:20):
But yeah, jamboree seems to have put a lot more
focus on minigames, but theminigames have a lot less impact
on the overall game itself, andso it's kind of this paradox of
more diversity, more diversegames.
Speaker 1 (53:39):
So didn't you get your dice block changes based on
your character mechanic.
Speaker 2 (53:42):
Oh no, they cut that because that was basically just
for the team mode.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
But my rant still stays that part of the problem
with Nintendo games and Nintendothe company and the Switch too.
Is that they peaked?
I haven't seen them.
They've just kind of stoppedinnovating around the Switch era
.
The title that I can't get overis like Breath of the Wild 2
(54:10):
still only had five dungeons.
Well, breath of the Wild didthis.
Why would we try and be better?
I'm like to be better.
Speaker 2 (54:21):
The thing that bugs me about Switch era games.
I mean, I don't know, maybe Ijust didn't pay as much
attention during the Wii era,but whenever they do something
that seems innovative andinteresting, they're too scared
to commit and they just trysomething else new.
(54:41):
Yeah, and I don't know.
It just leads to veryinconsistent games because none
of their ideas are fully baked.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
And with that we pivot into our random question
of the week.
I got two of them this week.
I don't know if I've asked thisone, but it's such a Carl
question I know we've had thisconversation.
Is cereal a soup.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
Is cereal a soup?
Speaker 1 (55:09):
Is cereal a soup.
Soup is cereal a soup.
Speaker 2 (55:12):
It's cereal a soup.
Well, I mean, you'd be able tomake a stronger argument for uh
porridge being a soup uh,because it's hot.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
But then we go into that gazpacho debate that you
can have a cold soup yeah, Idon't think cold soup is really
soup.
Speaker 2 (55:29):
I don't I.
Speaker 1 (55:31):
The ocean is just soup, if you think about it, but
Water, salt, broth, seafood.
Speaker 2 (55:41):
So here's the semantics Fine soup.
Speaker 1 (55:44):
So if porridge is hot cereal, it says so on the box,
right, Right.
Speaker 2 (55:50):
So yes, Cereal is in the grain.
Speaker 1 (55:52):
Yeah, so cereal, the grain, is absolutely a soup.
When you just cook it in milk,you could absolutely make a soup
out of milk.
Cream of blank Now, cream ofCheerios, on the other hand, is
a bit more questionable.
Like, I think this is one ofthose savory versus sweets in
the nomenclature situations.
Speaker 2 (56:13):
I think like a dessert soup.
Speaker 1 (56:14):
Although some cultures are like, try this
dessert red bean soup, I'm likeit's not delicious to me, I'm
sorry, so I'm going to go with.
Cereal is a soup if you fighthard enough for it.
But you're really just doingyourself a disservice.
It's like, yes, you could geton the stage and debate Cereal
is a soup.
Put those examples of coldsoups, dairy soups, grain soups,
(56:36):
sugary soups Boom, it's a soup.
It'll be like cool if you putit in the soup aisle, no one's
going to find it idiot.
Speaker 2 (56:43):
So Webster Merriam-Webster defines soup as
a liquid food, especially withmeat, fish or vegetable stock as
a base and often containingpieces of solid food.
Speaker 1 (56:57):
So I mean Right, like you can argue it, but it's not
going to help anyone sort?
It.
Speaker 2 (57:04):
By that definition, the milk is a soup.
Speaker 1 (57:09):
Oh no.
Speaker 2 (57:09):
Oh no.
Speaker 1 (57:14):
Because it has a base well.
Speaker 2 (57:17):
Well, I mean, the definition doesn't even
exclusively say it has to have astock base.
It just or that it has toeverything solid in it.
It just says that it's liquidfood, especially with meat, fish
or vegetable stock as a baseand often containing solid
pieces of food.
Speaker 1 (57:31):
You know what's crazy , though?
I'm thinking of these creamsoups, but most of them would
still have a stock component,like I think stock would have
been the secret to preventingthis nonsense.
If, like, no, Exactly To be asoup, it has to have a stock and
if it's not from the Champagneregion, it's just sparkling
Cheerios has to.
It has to be from the soupregion of France or it's just
sparkling Cheerios.
(57:52):
That was the joke.
I botched that joke so hard andstill got the laugh.
Speaker 2 (58:00):
So yay, but I think we're in consensus that it is a
soup and we hate it.
I mean by thisMerriam-Webster's definition.
Yes, it is a soup, I'm justmaking the Richard, appeal to
semantics.
Speaker 1 (58:16):
Attention listeners.
Picture me turning to face thecamera directly.
Perfect Listen.
Just because something istechnically true doesn't make it
relevantly true If you have toargue for an object to be in a
category but you went into astore and put that object in
that category and no one couldfind it there, you're ethically
wrong.
So if you say, like Sailor Moonis a mecha anime, no one's going
(58:41):
to find Sailor Moon in themecha anime category.
If you say, um, actuallySuperman is an alien, so it
should be in the sci-fi movie,technically, sure, but you
should just make a superherocategory.
That's like a third of allmovies now and they're like,
yeah, wolverine and Deadpool isa romantic comedy.
I'd be like you're not wrong,but they're going to look in
(59:03):
that superhero section.
Speaker 2 (59:08):
So do us all a favor.
Speaker 1 (59:10):
And just because you can um actually something, put
it on the shelf where people canfind it.
Don't um actually put yourpizza pockets in with the pop
tarts.
Don't um actually put your hotdogs in with the taco meat.
Okay, guys, we can do better asa society.
Don't be like coffee is a threebean smoothie, so I'm gonna put
cans of coffee with the lentils.
Don't be like coffee is a threebean smoothie, so I'm going to
(59:31):
put cans of coffee with thelentils.
Ethically yes, you can putcoffee with the beans.
Speaker 2 (59:38):
But just put it in the breakfast aisle.
But what's?
Question number two?
Does cutting a sandwichdiagonally make it taste better.
Scientifically, yes, AgreedDone.
Speaker 1 (59:52):
It's so funny though, agreed Done.
It's so funny, though, becauseit's like.
So I was about to give a speechabout surface area where, when
you have the diagonal sandwich,you've got the nice point to dip
in your ironically tomato soup,which is a soup or your soup,
cheerios, if you want to benasty with it and like it makes
a good dipping ratio.
(01:00:12):
Front and front is the cheesefor the grilled cheese.
They look more aestheticallypleasing on the plate.
But my question to you is why?
Why would you cut your sandwichdiagonally, other than the fact
it empirically improves theflavor particles?
Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
Well, I mean, I'm kind of a savage.
I just I don't cut my sandwichat all, I just dip the whole
sandwich in the soup we're in asituation where you will be
divorced if you don't cut thesandwich uh, well see, I might
actually uh.
I watched a food theory episodeactually about the superior way
to cut your sandwich.
Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
I've also been listening to a lot of cinema
wings in the background whichsomehow food theory episode
actually about the superior wayto cut your sandwich I did pause
for a completely unrelatedtangent.
I've also been listening to alot of cinema wings in the
background which somehow didn'tmake it to what's New with
Richard, where they just pointout things they enjoyed in
movies.
That's been really good for mymental health Because I watched
their Wolverine and Deadpoolcinema wings not sponsored, just
a fan and they're like here'sthings I thought were awesome
about it.
I'm like, oh man, I shouldwatch this before every movie
(01:01:11):
and watch this person just getunreasonably hyped about
everything in the movie.
That's great.
Oh, look at Tails he caughtSonic like this movie poster.
That's a win.
Dang it, I'm like that is a win.
Anyway, back to your souptheory.
Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
Well, no, the film theory or food theory did an
episode about how to cutsandwiches and the basic gist of
it is that, like you say, ifyou cut it diagonally you
increase the surface area versusthe amount of crust and it just
actually genuinely improves theflavor.
But the ideal way to actuallycut a sandwich is to cut it in
(01:01:46):
the Y shape, so you get threepieces because that maximizes
your surface area.
In the Y shape.
So you get three pieces becausethat maximizes your surface
area.
And then, if you want tomaximize your surface area even
more, instead of cuttingvertically, you cut on a
diagonal, so you cut it into Y.
The cuts are diagonal, likeinstead of being perfectly
perpendicular to your cuttingboard, and you'll maximize the
(01:02:09):
surface area but still have astructurally sound piece of
sandwich that you can eat.
Uh, so if I were forced to cuta sandwich, I would try to do it
.
Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Uh, the food theory way to make it as um, to
maximize the impact of cuttingit versus not I see I'm gonna
put in a third bonus questionbecause we got some good
questions in this week, but Iappreciate the why cutting, so
here's a fun one.
If fish could scream, wouldfishing still be popular?
So you pull the fish out of thewater and it flops around and
(01:02:48):
just screams at the top of itslungs till you beat it to death.
Speaker 2 (01:02:54):
Okay.
Well, I mean, let's play thesituation in reverse.
When a human goes into thewater and they scream, it's not
actually super audible.
No, this fish, when we pull itout of the water, it's not
actually super audible.
Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
No, this fish when we pull it out of the water.
It's a mandrake situation.
The fish gets out of the waterand then we just hear it scream.
Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
I mean I don't think fishing would.
It still might be popular.
It's still one of the best foodsources.
Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
It would be more savage.
We would kill those fish somuch more aggressively.
I think it would drasticallyincrease the amount of electro
savage.
We would kill those fish somuch more aggressively.
I think it would drasticallyincrease the amount of
electro-taser fishing we do, orunderwater murdering of the fish
we do.
Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
Or you just harpoon it from above and then pull it
in.
Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
But yeah, I don't know.
I'm not sure that the streamingwould be that unsettling,
because fish have a hard timebreathing in air, alright, and
with that screaming would bethat unsettling because fish
have a hard time breathing inair.
Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
All right, and with that, like we have some good
questions, We'll save some ofthem, but I believe that it
would make fishingrecreationally less popular,
more popular among sociopaths,and the fishing industry would
become ridiculously savage, Likewe think caged chicken is bad.
(01:04:14):
The things we would do if fishcould like scream for their
rights.
Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
Well, I mean catch and release would definitely
become less popular.
Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
But like we need fish , it's a food source, a good one
.
With all those deliciousbatteries and mercury, our robot
overlords will be pleasedalright well thank you everybody
for tuning in something,something book something,
(01:04:44):
something love each other,something, something global
warming well, I mean you forgotabout the something, something
self care hydrate.
Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
Mean you forgot about this something, something
self-care hydrate, whatnot?
You know, exercise, see the sundon't test a fish scream.
That seems mean I feel likeit's been scientifically proven
that they don't scream.
Oh, I'm not sure if anybody hasdone those experiments with any
sort of scientific rigor.
Speaker 1 (01:05:10):
Plus there's some really deep underwater fish.
Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
Ooh, that's a good point.
Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
But I do enjoy that.
We're just like just cutting asandwich to angrily make it
taste better, like, yes, duh,idiot, wait.
The only thing that's nearly asgood is when you take too much
effort to cut it into likelittle cubes and do like the
stacked fancy sandwiches where,like no crust, we cut each
sandwiches to four perfect cubes, then stack them like a
(01:05:36):
psychopath?
Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
yeah, but at that point you almost need a
toothpick to hold your sandwichtogether but then you eat it off
the toothpick like a member ofthe Kingsman.
Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
yeah, what does it have been when cinema win?
Once I watch, was everythingAwesome with the Kingsmen.
I'm like you're right.
Show, this is an awesome moviethat just has insane
choreography for no reason.
Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
Oh, I love Kingsman Secret Service.
I don't know if I saw the otherKingsman movie, but Fair enough
, maybe next week.
Well, maybe
Good afternoon, evening and everything in
between.
I am Richard, one of yourfantastic hosts of Richard and
Carl present Deep Space andDragons.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
And I am Carl, because we do this in
introductory order and notalphabetically.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
It's true, although it would be really funny if we
had two Carls and you never gotto go first.
True, although it would bereally funny if we had two Carls
and you never got to go first,because, like you do in your
heart, you are winning, but thedisservice is real.
So, I guess I'll open up withthe typical question what's new
(00:39):
with you?
Slash surprise movie review.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Surprise movie review .
Well, if you want a surprisemovie review, surprise movie
review.
Well, if you want a surprisemovie review, venom 2 was meh.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
They didn't lean hard enough into it being a rom-com.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
And it just felt a little bit rushed because they
kept it at a tight 90 minutes.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I mean it's kind of funny that that's now a tight Eh
it's a long story short.
Anywho, it's kind of funny thatthat's now a Titan.
It's a long story short.
Anywho, here's our 30 secondreview on Venom.
Aight done.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Alright, so what else is new in the Carlverse?
Well, okay, so back in 2004.
Oh Lord, that's long ago.
There was a book published.
It was called Darkly DreamingDexter and in 2006, it got
adapted into the hit televisionshow Dexter, about a serial
(01:34):
killer who works as a bloodspatter analyst and blood
spatter analyst in order to usepolice resources to find
criminals that have slippedthrough the cracks and killed
them as his victims.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
A more violent version of TV's hit TV show
Lucifer.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
And you know apparently the main Dexter
series.
The show has eight seasons.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yes, and I've heard six of them are good.
Six of them are good, and I'dlike the any particular seasons
that are noted as particularlybad or so there's some deep
irony about me as a person andthis might go into my what's new
as me section, might not, butserial killer show make me
queasy Me.
Never watch a person and thismight go into my what's New with
Me section, might not, butSerial killer show make me
(02:26):
queasy me never watch.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Fair enough.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
And I'm literally in a class on adjunct horror right
now, reading a book aboutsomebody who uses their own
blood to write novels and I'mlike, yeah, but it's cool.
Conceptual Character pulls outtheir spine and beats them with
it.
No problem, Ooh, paper cut no.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Well, pulls out their spine and beats them with it,
no problem.
Ooh, paper cut, no Well, I mean, the premise of the entire
first season is that there'sanother serial killer that
drains their victim of bloodcompletely, and so the blood
spatter analyst is intrigued,but forensically useless.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Eh, I love it.
It's like.
Which one do you think's theserial killer?
Well, not the creepy guy wholives alone and never hangs out
with us, who studies blood.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Oh no, no See, dexter is very good at blending in and
he found a girlfriend who hassome past trauma with abusive
boyfriends that doesn't want tobe that intimate.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
so then he doesn't have to get intimate, but he
still has a girlfriend to put onthe show anyway, I assume
you're going somewhere with thisinstead of just spending the
next hour talking about tv'sdexter, because I would have
prepared it some way well, okay.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
So I mean the first thing.
I just it's kind of like ageneral uh feeling that I have
towards long-running shows.
I feel like it's maybe aroundthree seasons where I start to
lose interest, because either itbecomes repetitive, where it's
(03:59):
the same thing happening overand over again and there's not
really anything new being addedto the story thing happening
over and over again and there'snot really anything new being
added to the story, or itbecomes contrived, where it's
like prison break, for example,how many prisons can they break
into and break out of?
Speaker 1 (04:18):
The TV show community says the ideal length is six
seasons in a movie.
I think that's excessive.
I'm with you that most of thebest things I've ever watched
come to like a cool 52 episodes.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Mm.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
So like season length matters, like four seasons, if
they're all 12 episodes, yeah,that's fine.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
But four seasons, seems to be like your TV show
strong.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
I don't actually remember how many seasons
Breaking Bad was.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Mm, I think it might be four, but I would have to
double check.
In any event, the first seasonis pretty much a straight out of
five.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
That feels right.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Although Breaking Bad is probably going to cut a
season, the first season ofDexter is a fairly close
adaptation of the first book,and then there are several other
books which diverges wildlyfrom there.
And firstly, there's a wholebunch of spin-off material from
(05:24):
the TV series, and so we've beenwatching this original Sin
Dexter, which follows him as a20-year-old who's just basically
learning how to kill people andnot get caught, and initially I
thought that it would be atough prequel series to have a
(05:45):
bad rep because there's nostakes.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
They have a bad rep because they're bad.
Show me a good prequel.
It's hard to do because they'rebad, unless you go a million
years in the past or don't useany of your cast.
If you want a prequel somethingyou don't use any of your cast,
like you want to prequelsomething you don't use naruto.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Well, see, uh, I kind of came into the the prequel
series with that kind of thoughtin mind that it's like, hmm, is
this actually going to be anygood?
Because like, how can there beany stakes?
See, if there's any hint of himmaybe being caught, I know he
can't be caught.
If there's any hint of himmaybe being caught, I know he
can't be caught.
If there's any hint of him orhis sister being in mortal
danger, I know that they can'tactually die or get mutilated in
any way, because they don'tfall in love until season 5
(06:33):
exactly.
It's like you know.
You know a lot about the future, but but then some people still
get elected anyway.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
And then the nuclear apocalypse clock goes a point
forward well see.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
The prequel did something I absolutely did not
expect, and spoiler alert ifanybody's watching it, because
the original scene is airingweekly right now.
But the chief of police seemsto be working for the cartel and
kidnapped his own son to makesure that no one would think
(07:12):
that he was the one who wascapturing the kids of other
police officials.
Yeah, and it was like you knowthat that's actually a genuinely
compelling and interesting plotline that I don't know how it's
going to go.
That's actually a genuinelycompelling and interesting
plotline that I don't know howit's going to go because it's
not at all tied to the Dexterseries, and I have high hopes.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I will be happy if it's good, but see the thing
about prequels and this getsthrown in my face a lot about
prequels.
Although there's been like thething about prequels and this
gets thrown in my face, a lotabout prequels.
Although there's been a coupledecent Star Trek prequels is
most prequels.
Would be better if they weretheir own show with their own
characters, instead of being aprequel, because this gains
nothing by being part of theDexter cinematic universe.
(08:00):
If this was like Todd and itjust followed a different serial
killer named Todd, you losenothing well, I mean.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
So another part of the draw to it is so.
Dexter's mother was also killedby the cartel when he was like
three years old, and then apolice officer adopted him and
realized he was a sociopath andtrained him to focus his serial
(08:29):
killer tendencies onto peoplewho deserve it Best parenting
Also the plot of Naruto.
Right, and the original seriesdoesn't really elaborate a whole
lot on the father'srelationship with the mother.
The father's name is Harry andthe original show doesn't really
(08:54):
elaborate on Harry'srelationship with Dexter's
mother.
And so there's a lot going onbecause you're following Dexter
as he's learning how to kill.
You're following a flashbackwhere Harry is remembering
Dexter's mother and how she wasan informant for them trying to
(09:16):
get the top members of thecartel, and there's tension in
this.
Like I know, she's going to getmurdered, but when?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
I will say Chekhov's murder is not the worst strategy
there.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Right.
And then, like I said, there'sthe main storyline where
Dexter's learning how to killand then the chief of police is
secretly child kidnapper, slash,murderer, and it's like it's
complex and nuanced enough andthe stakes aren't really
directly tied to Dexter and hisfamily.
(09:54):
So I get what you're sayingabout how it could just be in
someone's show and it doesn'tgain a whole lot from being part
of the Dexter universe.
But there is some intrigue thatthey managed to pull from it
being part of the Dexteruniverse.
But there is some intrigue thatthey managed to pull from it
being part of the Dexteruniverse.
But I don't know.
When I watched the originalDexter show though, I got to
(10:21):
season 6 and I just gave upbecause it was streaming weekly
at that point and it wasn't onNetflix yet and actually I got
kind of tired of the showbecause, again, like I say,
after a certain point they getkind of contrived.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
So it's funny like the contrived notion of how do
we make our story cycle happen,to make our plot happen.
What was it?
It was like at what point doesit start being the character's
fault?
Like I don't want to use OnePiece as an example, but like in
One Piece, every time, withoutfail, they end up in an island
(11:04):
fighting the government.
It's like yeah, I don't feelbad for you Because it's like oh
, like I'm trying to think of agood example, because this came
up recently where it's like youcome up with increasingly
(11:24):
contrived things to make theplot happen.
I think it was delicious in thedungeon, where it's like okay,
you have to make sure itgimmicks that all these monsters
are edible, but at what pointdoes it become absurd?
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Right, but now that my fiancé has gotten into
watching the original Sin showI'm not she's almost done
watching season 6 of theoriginal show, and then we're
actually going to watch season 7and 8 together, because I
haven't seen them.
But I have to now watch theshow and I'm also going to try
(12:05):
and read the books to see justhow different they are, because
a screenplay requires adifferent set of technical
skills than writing a novel.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
What?
No way, I would never know that.
It's not like I've takenscreenplay writing classes or
anything.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
It's not like I literally workshop one day as
play writing classes or anything.
I'm looking at you, jk Rowlingman, the second Fantastic Beasts
movie and the third one too.
But the second Fantastic Beastsmovie.
Jk Rowling wrote the screenplay, but I don't think she actually
studied how to write ascreenplay, because when you
(12:47):
introduce a bunch of characters,you can stop your novel to go
and explore their backstories abit and learn more about these
characters in ways that thecurrent characters don't even
necessarily need to know.
But it's still interesting andthe flow of the story isn't
necessarily disrupted.
But there's this scene wherethey're planning a heist in the
(13:11):
movie the second FantasticBeasts movie and it just stops
for this flashback for everysingle party member.
And it's just so disruptive tothe flow of the movie because I
don't know how you convey thatinformation and how much of that
information was even relevantwhen you have such a short, so
(13:33):
limited screen time.
And it's made me a little bitsad because I really enjoyed the
first Fantastic Beasts moviebut the other two it's like so
Fantastic.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Beasts 2 and and three I have a deep hatred of,
because I stopped being aboutfantastic beasts and the beast
wrangler, like right becameperiod peace, wannabe drama,
fanfic-y, just.
Oh, it's like, why do you wantto be a political thriller?
I want to watch a guy write akelpie.
(14:05):
What are you doing?
It's like if you did a prequeltrilogy for Star Wars and had to
talk about trade unions insteadof pew, pew, zoop, zoops.
Sometimes you want to give thepeople what they want, and they
want fantastic beasts and whereto find them.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
In any event, what's new with me is that I'm
currently wading through theDexter universe and all of its
related media.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Okay, I was about to say from your screenplay clip.
I'm like did you actually lookat the screenplay?
Because I would have given youkudos Because it's easier to
look at the screenplay, but it'sa lot easier to do if you
actually look at how screenplaysare written.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
No, no, I know I don't have the technical.
I'm not sure I have thetechnical skills to be an author
in general, but I know I don'thave the technical skills to be
a screenplay writer, becausethat's no way.
Screenplay is the easiest onescreenplays are easier than the
novels oh, absolutely so,screenplays or let's even go
stage plays.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Let's go stage plays.
You're actually encouraged togive as little details as
possible that aren't likespecific dialogue, so your
actors can act in your settingcan setting and your prop can
prop.
So because you have a crew youdon't actually choreograph a
fight screen in your screenplay.
That's for the choreographers todo so you would just be like
(15:34):
it's over Carl, I have the highground, and then everyone else
has to figure out how to do that.
It's awesome.
You might be like enter leftcamera, pan up.
It's over attic and I have highground and it's like, yeah, no,
they want you to put in.
Less is more in thesesituations so the other people
could do their jobs yeah, if Iwent for a living.
(15:56):
I'm like oh yeah, on page.
Each page is one minute intothe screenplay.
They're formatted deliberatelyto do that, so so I could be
like oh yeah eight minutepost-credits stinger, dramatic
pun goes here.
I'm like, yeah, formulaic, like, oh man, if I was writing a
weekly sitcom like a BrooklynNine-Nine.
I'm like, yeah, this is awesome.
(16:16):
All I have to do is be like Xperson says Y.
Maybe a note about how, maybenot.
Maybe.
I'll just trust Terry Crews.
It's great.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Well, anyways, what's new with you there, Richard?
Speaker 1 (16:32):
So a lot of my schooling is doing workshops and
for the plottiest of twists toall of my fellow students who
clearly listen to my podcastevery week, I had a really
strong workshop group so I endedup at school an extra half hour
because everyone was beingproductive and thoughtful and
intelligent and I'm like yeah,this is my second last workshop
of the year and I got competentpeople who care Amazing.
(16:56):
I feel like the next workshopis not going to be that.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
The final workshop of the year will be something
terrible.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Well, it's funny because, like, my day was
literally going to the office,do copy editing for three hours,
do homework for two hours, goto class, workshop for four
hours.
Like, what did you do today?
Oh, I edited and I workshoppedand I wrote and I, unironically,
had an awesome day.
I had a full 20 minuteconversation about whether or
(17:26):
not you capitalize a questionafter a semicolon.
What a day.
Huh, and it's after a semicolon, no, but after a traditional
colon if it forms a completesentence.
Yes, yes, you do weird things.
There's a lot of rules you needto like actually write because
(17:46):
I'm working on the style guidefor redacted right and there's a
lot of rules you don't realizeare rules until two people do
the same thing differently andyou realize, crap, we need a
rule right so like, for example,one person had a number range
that was one hyphen three.
Another person had one that wasone m dash three.
I didn't think I needed a ruleto tell people you use hyphens
(18:07):
for number ranges, but now we do.
Or it's like oh, you put periodsbetween each letter of your
acronym.
Why?
Oh, sometimes you didn't Guessthat's a rule now, so there's a
lot of that.
I like when the universe givesme a thing to hyper-focus on and
(18:28):
send rage to, that has nofeelings, because it's like ah
yeah, I'm going to get mad atthe practice cards.
It's their fault, not thepeople who wrote them.
They're long gone, doesn'tmatter.
The card itself is my enemy.
How dare it?
How dare it have such a weakuse of white space cur?
How dare it start three out offour bullet points with I?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Oh, that's rough.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Right, like you gotta fix it.
And then you're like do I addthat to the rule?
It's like no, there's no way,that'll come up often.
Oh, I guess it does.
I should probably put that inthe first practice document.
Shouldn't have to tell someonethis, but you know.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
There's lots of things that you think you
shouldn't have to tell someone,but then it turns out they do.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
So you know the symbol above the tab key, the
like squiggly line thing, andI'm not actually sure what
punctuation that is.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Someone was using one of those and I wasn't sure how
to Google what it is.
Okay, let's see, I don'tactually know what that piece of
punctuation is or means, butapparently it's important enough
to make it onto the keyboard.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Okay, so it's called a tilde.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
I think I was calling them Tildos today.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Tildos.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
I regret nothing.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Okay, where's my phone at?
It's gone off.
I need to make sure.
Oh, to tell me that my phone isconnected to my computer.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Good job.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
A symbol similar to a Tildi.
No, that's, I don't know.
Let's see An accent placed overa Spanish letter or Portuguese.
No, I don't really know whyit's on our keyboard.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
So why was it on one of the cards I was editing?
I'll never know.
Shouldn't have been so my daysuper exciting?
Shouldn't have been so my daysuper exciting, looking at
different novel contests toenter, won a scholarship, did a
bunch of school stuff.
All in all, a good day and thatdoes sound like a good day but
(20:39):
what's new hasn't really changedfrom last week, where I'm like
I'm doing all these events thatI burned out.
How about this week I'm doingall these events that I burned
out?
How about this week I'm doingall these things that are less
burned out?
Oh, I also played a crap ton ofSonic Origins.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Ah, yeah, because you saw the Sonic movie, the Sonic
3, recently.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
So Sonic Origins is the best way you can do a
remaster.
So, not only did they addwidescreen to all of the games
without like stretching, it bylike actually like redrawing the
frame, so it's wider.
They also retroactively addedfour playable all four playable
characters to Sonic 1, cd 2 and3 so.
(21:17):
I'm like, oh, sonic 1, thatdidn't have Super Sonic and you
can only play a Sonic.
I can now play a Sonic andTails and collect the seven
emeralds to go Super Sonic.
This is sweet.
It made the older game better.
Yeah, I'm gonna play throughSonic CD as Amy Rose and save
her damn self.
It's great, it's good stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
That is pretty funny.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
And they just did little intro outro cutscenes For
a collection.
I'm so used to Nintendocheapness of there being like
$80 if you want Super MarioAll-Stars again.
That actually happened and itwas just the port of the SNES
game for the Switch.
And then it's like how would youlike not only these four Sonic
games with a bunch of newfeatures and a new story mode,
(21:57):
and we made it that you can justretry the bonus stages
infinitely.
And we got rid of lives andinstead you get coins to unlock
things.
Instead of lives.
They give you coins to buythings from the gallery Because
they're like why would we giveyou lives?
You can just restart, we don'tcare.
And also they just threw inevery game key or Sonic game for
fun and I'm like, well, thatwas a good use of $12.
(22:18):
And I'm just like, yeah, thisis great.
So that's what I've done isprocrastinated being a writer by
playing Sonic while I wasn'tbeing a writer.
Time to move into today's topic, which I was originally going
to pivot off of Dexter, Becauseyou know what else probably has
a really high murder rate.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
What?
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Digital board games, particularly Mario Party.
Why did you want?
To talk about Mario Party todayparticularly Mario Party.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Why did you want to talk about Mario Party today?
Well, I mean the main thing.
I kind of wanted to complain abit because what?
Yeah, I know Super Mario Party.
I love Super Mario Party.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Oh, I thought I was thinking 8.
You were thinking Mario Party?
Oh, I thought I was thinkingeight.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
The one you were thinking.
Mario Party eight, yeah, no,like Mario Party one is
absolutely brutal, like it's sounfriendly as compared to even
number two.
Number three is kind of wherethey hit their stride with their
formula of how charactersinteract on the map and how the
(23:31):
map interacts with characters,and I feel like it's a tried and
true formula that they juststuck with up to Mario Party 9,
I think is the last one beforeSuper Mario Party, I think is
the last one before Super MarioParty.
And Super Mario Party felt likeit was supposed to be a
(23:53):
reinvigoration of the franchisewhere they were going to try new
and interesting things to shakeup the world.
They tried to shove in everymode too.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
They tried to shove in every game mode they could.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Well see, I mean I, I enjoy the the river rafting
mode, where you're on a rafttrying to get to the end and you
have to hit and get, you haveto collect time clocks it was
the friendship.
I, I really did enjoy that modebecause then then you have to do
hit balloons with mini games,uh, and then do well on the mini
games to get more time so youcan actually make it to the end.
(24:26):
I really it was quite clearly agimmick.
That wasn't going to make itinto the next version, oh yeah,
but I liked it.
And then you know they hadtheir obligatory rhythm games.
Where you like they're motiongames but you like dance to the
music or whatever Dance to themusic.
Then obviously they have theminigame mode where you can just
(24:52):
free play minigames.
And then obviously they alsohad the classic mode, which is
just a four player brawl whereyou're on the map and each
person is trying to race to thestar and get the most coins and
play mini games to collect coinsand what not.
But the game mode that I washoping would not be a gimmick
(25:15):
was their new partners yeah, theco-op squares, because that
felt very much so mario party,but a new, fresh take on it,
right?
Um, and I was actually a littlebit sad because there were only
four maps on super mario party.
(25:35):
Uh, partly, partly because theyput some development into this
free-form squares mode whereeach player had a different
custom dice block and you couldpick up allies to be able to use
their dice blocks and they addto your role and you share your
role with your partner.
There's so much I enjoyed aboutthe team mode that they added
(26:00):
to Super Mario Party and I wasreally hoping that that was
going to be the future of MarioParty.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
So to pivot off that pretty smoothly, because Super
Mario Party is a game that comesup a few times when I have
gatherings at my friend's houseand things like that.
It's a good game for that, eventhough it has the mix of motion
controls and classic minigames.
And the thing is, though, superMario Party kind of did its job
(26:26):
too well when they announced agame.
After that, I'm like, why wouldI bother?
I already have a Mario Party.
But, more importantly, it'slike still debatable whether or
not it's actually like, whetheror not it's actually like better
.
You know, like sometimes likeis Mario Party 3, because it's
janky and terrible, actually thebetter game, because you're
(26:48):
trying to play it semi tipsywith your friends to begin with
well.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
I mean, like I say, if I wish they had invested more
resources into the freemovement mode, because that was
fresh and interesting.
But with the release of SuperMario Party Jamboree, which
basically Super Mario Party 2,they cut the teams mode, and I
(27:17):
appreciate that they cut theteam's mode.
Ah, moment of silence.
I appreciate that it freed updevelopment for the game boards
themselves, because there's moregame boards and I think they're
more well-designed, with uniqueand interesting mechanics, and
I really, really like the set ofgame boards that they have for
Super Mario Party Jamboree.
(27:38):
But one of the claims to famefor Super Mario Party Jamboree,
but one of the claims to famefor Super Mario Party Jamboree,
I guess I'll just call itJamboree going forward.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
You can do the whole thing or.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
S-M-E-J.
I'm just going to go withJamboree.
One of the benefits of Jamboreeis that they have over 130
minigames I think was the numberthey quoted which probably
means they have 131.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Which probably means they have 70 and then 70
reskills.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
For whatever reason, some of the motion minigames
it's like they really like thisone particular motion where
you're twisting and turning thecontroller to try and pedal a
tricycle, and they try to usethat as often as they can, it
seems, and I just absolutelyjust can't figure out that
motion.
I don't know what they'retrying to actually get me to do.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
I'm going to make a hot take here.
The Switch put out all of itsbest games within the first two
years and hasn't put out asingle good game in the
following seven.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Because it's like Breath of the Wild amazing.
Breath of the Wild 2, electricBoogaloo Not actually better
Mario.
Kart peak Stop there.
Smash Bros peak Stop there.
They just kind of capped out.
Other than Pokemon, legends,arceus, they just kind of were
done.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Yeah, I mean, I guess that's fair.
I'm still excited for theSwitch 2, but I'll see.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
I'm not right now.
I might be when they announcethe right software.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Back to Jamboree.
I don't know why this becamepart of the development ethos.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Oh, because everyone at Nintendo who's over the age
of 70 needs to retire over theage of 70 needs to retire.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
But there's also a lot of minigames where it's last
man standing or first person toget to the finish and for some
reason, when the last man isstill standing, they let that
player go as far as they want toor can go.
(30:01):
So the other players have beenknocked out and the last player
is like you know what I feellike being a jerk, and I'm just
going to do my best to actuallymake it to the end and make you
guys watch me, even though thegame knows that I've already won
, because if you just killyourself in the minigame don't
(30:23):
unload yourself.
But anyway, if you just end theminigame early, you still get
full credit for being the victorof the minigame.
And then they kind of expandedon the idea of the allies that
add to your dice roll and havespecial abilities.
(30:45):
I don't even know.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
If I like that mechanic, I'll get back to you.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
I'm kind of 50-50 on how it worked in Super Mario
Party because they were clearlypowerful, but there's so much
variance that Super Mario Partybecause they were clearly
powerful, but there's so muchvariance that nothing that you
do in the game actuallyguarantees that you'll win
unless you manage to get fourmore stars than the opposing
(31:15):
team.
But you need a prettysignificant gap in stars to
actually be able to guaranteethat you're going to win,
because there's just so muchvariance.
And that's actually kind ofpart of a part of what I like
about the game, uh, is that itfeels like their strategy and
your, your uh choices matter,but then at the end of the day,
(31:35):
uh, even someone who didn'treally do very good throughout
the game can still win.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Which is why my friend Cassie, who I'm just
going to dox here on thispodcast, is a relatively
competitive gamer, contrary toher entire ambiance as a human
being.
So when we were playingFlamecraft a few weekends ago
and we got to the end where itwas either me or her or one
other player that would win thehatred's real.
(32:04):
But the thing is people likethat take a lot of psychic
damage in Mario Party Becausethey can lose to a player who
hasn't been thinking at all, andthey don't mind losing to a
player who's been thinking I'mmuch the same way, I'm throwing
Cassian under the bus todescribe my own foibles who's
been thinking I'm much the sameway, I'm throwing Cassian under
the bus to describe my ownfoibles?
I am fine losing at Mario Partyto someone who's actively been
trying to beat me at Mario Party.
(32:26):
I don't like losing at MarioParty to someone who hasn't been
trying to beat me at MarioParty.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Well, in any event.
Coming back to the ally systemfrom Super Mario Party, I didn't
mind it.
I thought that they were verypowerful, but I found that they
actually didn't affect theoverall balance of the game.
Ah, and I feel like it's thesame way in Jamboree that they
(32:54):
don't really affect the overallbalance of the game in Jamboree,
that they don't really affectthe overall balance of the game,
but instead of being the firstperson who gets there and gets
the ally, you have to play anally minigame and each character
has their own unique minigame.
I'm pretty sure, like most ofthem either don't have a timer
(33:18):
and someone literally has tocomplete the challenge, or have
a timer that's's like four orfive minutes.
So it's like you come up toWaluigi and now everyone has to
play pinball for five minutes.
And well, I might beexaggerating, maybe it's only
three minutes, but you know oneperson's at a thousand points
(33:44):
and the next person's at 200points.
It's pretty clear who's won andyou're not racing to a specific
score.
There's no, you just have toplay through this whole game.
It's a very weird design choiceto have made so many mini games
and they just keep going.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
So what's really funny about this?
And I was thinking about this alot during your vengeance
tirade against Mario Party.
So last week they announced aremastering of the earlier
Dokopan Kingdom games.
Right, and my first thought was, yeah, another Dokopan Kingdom
game.
And then I, like sad memed,look out the window where I'm
like if only I had someone whowould lock themselves in a room
(34:27):
with me for three days to play avideo game, board game.
But that's kind of the joke isme and you have played some
stupidly long games before.
But if the game feels complexenough, you get invested in it,
like if you came out to visitand we did a started up before
the king too, it is possible, wewould pull an all-nighter
playing for the king too that ispossible, perhaps.
Even likely or dokapon kingdomor whatever.
(34:49):
But it's funny for mario partybecause you have so little
control that in dokapon kingdomwhen you get wrecked you always
know that you can then like, tryand come back through strategy
or spite.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Where Mario Party just kind of makes you sit there
and take it by the sounds of itand your problem's that I can't
be scheming my vengeancebecause Waluigi's playing
pinball.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Yeah, yeah.
That basically seems to be thementality of these minigames,
where it's just like it feelslike they just rush to put as
many minigames in there as theycan and then they forgot to make
them mini.
Yeah, like ten turns inJamboree takes an hour and a
(35:39):
half.
10 turns in the group mode ofSuper Mario Party takes 60
minutes.
There's like an extra half hourthat they shoved into the game.
That is basically just moreminigame.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
What's interesting is , like I'm thinking about Mario
Party competitors that have comealong over the years, like
we've done the Raving Rabbits,the novelty wore off pretty
quick We've done.
I did the Rugrats Mario Partyfor 64, like bajillion years ago
.
Okay, there was like theminigame Bomberman game where
(36:18):
we're like they have afour-player minigame mode I'm
like, but the best mode is justbomber man.
Why are we playing mario party?
because for a while everythingon the wii wanted to use wii
motion controls and forcingright and it's like mario party,
I don't even know, is actuallybetter than like xbox risk or
(36:38):
xbox monopoly, like literallyjust digitizing the classic
games, so you don't even know isactually better than Xbox Risk
or Xbox Monopoly, like literallyjust digitizing the classic
games so you don't have to setthem up, or almost comparable to
the games designed to beminigame things Like.
What was it?
I was playing one the other daywith a friend called Party
Animals which was just like abudget indie Mario Party.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
It was probably straight up better.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Because the joke is that Mario Party, the
environment you're playing it inthe game itself doesn't really
matter.
Like Nintendo Land is just aworse Mario Party.
But you had good Nintendo Landthings, or like Wii Sports
Resort, was just a Mario Party,at least the way we played it.
(37:21):
Because, we would just rotatethrough random minigames.
Or go classic WarioWare.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Well see, but part of what makes Mario Party and
other similar games stand out isthe board game aspect of it,
and you can't really justsuccessfully shove that into
another game, famous examplebeing the.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Smash Bros, the Smash .
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Bros Thank you the.
Smash Bros one, it just didn'treally function.
They're like yeah, it's a boardgame, but no, Smash Bros is not
a board game.
It's not meant to be a boardgame.
You can't just add that in andexpect it to actually be good.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
I mean it could have been, though, because they
half-assed it.
The board was just the cartsthat go in a circle.
They didn't commit.
If you made a full-lengthDokopan, but instead of card
battling it was a one minutesmash bros match, you have to
commit to making just a fullboard game that does that.
It's like, yeah, st gundamgachapon wars, for example, and
(38:33):
this is a hot take didn't evenneed the strategy game part.
They're like yeah, you gotversus, you got arena, you got
infinite dungeon.
Also, we have a full onstrategy game here and we
decided to make it four playerand I'm like what You're just
like?
Let's just Put in everythingthis game engine can possibly do
.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Oh, I love that development strategy the SD
Gundam Gachapon Wars.
It has so much content and theydid as much as they possibly
could.
Strategy the SD Gundam GachaponWars is it has so much content
and they did as much as theypossibly could.
With that Can I point you knowwhat they didn't do?
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Which I would do if I was doing a re-release of it.
Add a board game mode with SDGundam-themed mini -games each
round.
Be like Don's a big Sam, Jumponto White Base.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Mm.
Yeah, there are some thingsthey could have done.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
It's kind of funny.
On the alternate end, though,we have Jackbox games, which are
, like, so far removed frombeing an actual game.
Jackbox game is to Mario Party,as Cards Against Humanity Is to
Call of Cthulhu, like they'rejust Ice breaking party games at
that point, like Jackbox is.
(39:49):
Literally, we took drinkinggames and made them digital
games instead.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Yeah, but they're great for their own reason.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Yeah, jackbox is Is a great series of fun and
interesting games that do lendwell to a party ambiance, for
sure well, it's just funnybecause, like the kind of gamer
I am, like I said, if you wereto be like, hey, let's play a
single game of Call of Cthulhu,but it's digital, so the pieces
set themselves up, I'd be rightthere for that.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
But like the Mario Party problem, like I've never
been super into.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Mario Party, this digital, so the pieces set
themselves up.
I'd be right there for that.
But like the Mario Partyproblem, like I've never been
super into Mario Party becauseI'm not lucky and I'm not quite
skilled enough to get by onskill alone, Well, see another
one of my critiques aboutJamboree.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
For sure, 1, 2, and 3 Mario Party, winning minigames
didn't guarantee that you wouldwin the game, but it had a huge
impact on how likely you were towin, as it should, particularly
in Jamboree.
I will get that minigame awardevery time.
(41:01):
It's like you're the minigamechampion, that's right, but we
didn't give out a star for it,so you didn't get any bonus for
that and, uh, you'd still loseeven you won pretty much every
minigame.
That's rough, yeah, yeah, andit's kind of annoying and I just
(41:22):
.
The Super Mario Party kind offeels similar, where winning the
big games doesn't actuallyguarantee that you're going to
win the game, but it feelscloser to the older school
spirit where mini games areactually almost as important as
the game board.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
And then Warrior Wares just on crack, just on
crack cocaine.
Sadly, my Sonic collectiondidn't come with the Sonic Mario
Party they released on theDreamcast.
I assume it's bad, but itexists and it's like.
What's it called?
I'll get back to you, but they,totally, for the Dreamcast,
(42:03):
released Sonic, something orother which was just unabashedly
Sonic Shuffle.
That was it.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Which is.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Mario Party, but with Sonic characters traveling
around the board in turns andcollecting gems while taking
part in numerous four-playerminigames.
The fact it's never beenreprinted on anything that
wasn't the Sega Dreamcast tellsme everything I need to know.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
So we've been describing these games as board
games, but Mario Party inparticular, there's no way that
you could physically replicatethat non-digitally, and so it's
board game themed.
(42:50):
But is it really actually aboard game?
Speaker 1 (42:53):
So I'm going to go and give the semantics answer
and then the real answer.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
I'm going to go and give the semantics answer.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
And then the real answer, Semantics.
Is it played on a board and isit a game?
Yes, it's a board game, adigital board game, but a board
game nonetheless.
However, there's this like gunsand bullets game.
I played one time whereeveryone had a foam gun and you
had to.
Between rounds of this boardgame, a timer went and you had
(43:23):
to point to who you thought wasguilty and go pew-pew and then
shoot a foam dart at them.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
And that's a board game, but debatably, once you
physically get up and startthrowing hacky-sacks at each
other, that's about as much of aboard game as Mario Party,
right?
Sure, you're using a video gamefor the mini-game component,
but realistically you could subthat with everyone playing Rock
Paper Scissors against eachother and the winner gets five
(43:47):
coins, and the board game wouldstill function.
So I do think the mini-gamecollection style game calling it
a board game, video game isjust correct and counting those.
If it was a board game night,someone's like why don't we do a
round of Mario Party?
I don't think they're wrong.
Like, you're no longer sittingat a table, you're sitting on a
(44:07):
couch, scaring at a TV screen,so you lose a bit of the vibe,
but you wouldn't really losemuch of it.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Okay.
So like yeah if it was, bring agame to board game night and
you rolled up with Sonic Shuffle, I'd be like I'll allow it.
Well, but so you mentioned Forthe King in passing,
specifically For the King 2.
It was free on.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Xbox Game Pass this month.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
It's.
I would say that also fallsinto a similar category where
it's a board game, but that onekind of interests me because
there are so many fewer hiddenchoices and things that are just
impossible to replicate in reallife, because you see the
number of checks that you needto make, based on what stat,
(44:54):
what your probability of thatstat is, and it's basically all
dice rolls.
So you could theoreticallyrecreate that entire game as a
physical board game, the onlyproblem being the physical space
that we require for such alarge hexagon map.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
oh, you absolutely could and, like having
successfully played call ofcthulhu, has really opened my
eyes to how much effort peopleare willing to put in to set up
and play a game, because Call ofCthulhu, the co-op game.
I don't know if you've ever setup a game of Call of Cthulhu.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
I have not.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
So it involves a board twice the size of a risk
board.
Item cards, monster cards,character cards.
Players select a character.
Characters get health tokens.
Characters get MP tokens.
Characters get item cards.
Characters get spell cards.
There's tokens on the board totrack monsters, tokens on the
board to track the calendar,event cards, city cards,
(45:48):
exploration cards.
A monster deck that flipsitself over and transforms the
monster and like about aprobably 20 baggies of materials
go in this game.
So it's like the setup for thisgame is like a 20 minute setup
to get all the parts where theyneed to be.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Right.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
And that tells me that we could just set up a full
Dokopan Kingdom game and peoplewill do it if you find the
right people.
Because, like, what blows mymind for Call of Cthulhu is,
it's a cooperative game whereyou have to beat the monster or
just lose.
And cooperative games are soweird to me because I'm like the
dev difficulty it must take tomake a game where the game plays
against you on a gooddifficulty curve to feel
(46:27):
challenging but not unfair.
It's so much harder than tomake a game balanced against
other players.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Right.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
Because it's like you gotta make a game balanced
against four human beings thatfeel like they're outsmarting a
machine without having a machinebecause you just get punch
cards.
So I think that's like kind ofa recurring theme, is like me
and you tend to lean towardslike the co-op video game, board
games.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
Right.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Or co-op, competitive .
Dokkan Kingdom has actuallytotally just cut through, but it
appears like it's cooperativeuntil it's not.
It is the longest of long congames ever made.
But yeah, you hit a certainpoint where it's like to make
your board game elaborate enough.
Just be digital, like For theKing.
I believe we could just makeFor the King, but it would be
(47:19):
less convenient right.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
So I mean obviously the.
The digitized versions of boardgames are just straight-up
board games and it is veryconvenient.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
I love straight-up digital risk so much more
because I have a button thatjust speed battles the two
territories hmm, I kind of wantto change risk a bit.
I had this idea where to makerisk more efficient.
You got the number of faces onyour dice equal to the troops
that were there, and they scaledup on dice size and you both
rolled to see how many of theother sides you killed.
(47:51):
So like, if you had 20 guys,you rolled a d20, and if I had 6
, I rolled a d6.
So if you roll 20 on your 20 andI roll 6 on my 6.
You lose 6 and I lose everybody, and you obliterated them into
base and that makes every fightlike one dice roll, or two at
most, I don't know if it worksout mathematically the same, but
(48:12):
that's how I would do it Justscrew Risk.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
We've already talked about how Risk is one of the
worst classic board games outthere yet it's so close to being
awesome.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
I think that's what gets me.
It's like the fancy risk.
It's like as soon as you addsome control over this variance,
the game gets good again butclassic risk is just not good
and I've come around on monopoly, oh well.
So first off, if you remove freeparking, so you're not just
getting money out of the notgood, and I've come around on
Monopoly.
Oh Well.
So first off, if you removefree parking, so you're not just
getting money added to thesystem and you play with a turn
(48:47):
limit, especially if you have adramatic countdown clock going
on.
Right it's a reasonably lengthgame because you've got rid of
the exploit that made itinfinite.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Right.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
And it's a bartering game.
Like the variance is 90.
Like the variance is 90% like.
The variance is probably aquarter of the game.
And then it's how well can youbarter?
Speaker 2 (49:07):
Right.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
I don't know.
I've come around on it a bit,not too much Like.
There's just better games likeFlamecraft is just better
Monopoly in every meaningful way.
For one thing, you get a dragonowning a bakery.
The dragon's name is Pan and itbakes bread.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
Oh, how clever.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yes, hey.
If you think Monopoly's betterthan a game where you can have
your lavender dragon open a teashop, you're an idiot.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Lavender the scent of evil.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
Probably Sounds accurate, but like to loop this
back around to any sort ofsemblance of focus.
So it sounds like you recommendSuper Mario Party and don't
recommend Super Mario PartyJamboree, proving my earlier
theory that Nintendo has notgotten better in the seven years
between those games.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
Has it been that long since Super Mario Party?
I don't know, probably.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
It's been long enough to be like, if you have a Mario
Party and you built the gameengine, put in the characters,
put in the boards, put in theice roller and then you put out
another Mario Party, it shouldjust be better in every way and
you shouldn't have to cutanything.
It should have the entirety ofthe last Mario Party in it.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Uh, super Mario Party came out in 2018.
Mario Party Jamboree came outlast year, so there's about five
years in between the two.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
Imagine that was your homework.
Someone gave you five years togo from Super Mario Party to
Super Mario Party Jamboree andyou did that, accomplished that.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
Yeah, that's Well, like I say A, I haven't unlocked
all the content for Jamboree,but B.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Unless it starts literally just making you Bailey
Spiked Dark Cherry HotChocolates.
Speaker 2 (51:04):
Bailey Spiked, dark Cherry, hot Chocolates, I don't
know.
Speaker 1 (51:07):
Yeah, I'm just saying , if the game doesn't start just
making you cocktails, itdoesn't have very good secret
features to justify it.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
Okay.
Well, like I said, the amountof time they spent developing
that team mode for Super MarioParty clearly took away from the
amount of time they spentdeveloping their game boards.
Yeah, and so I spent developingtheir game boards, yeah, and so
I believe that the game boardsthey have for Jamboree are
(51:37):
probably the best game boards inany Mario Party to date.
The game boards themselves areabsolutely phenomenal.
I love them.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
That is a fun twist.
Speaker 2 (51:49):
It just sounds like the mini-games, on the other
hand, Well, like I say, theyadded 50% more time to your game
.
That appears to just bemini-games and I don't really
appreciate that extra half hourof just mini-games.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
So I was looking up similar party games, right
Mm-hmm, and ever go up like aclicking rabbit hole in the
background during one of ourepisodes every now and then so I
was looking up like other marioparty type games.
Right, you know what game hasthe highest score for a mario,
blatant mario party type game?
Totally spies, totally partyfor the wii has like a 5.5 and a
(52:30):
4.5 respectively and I'm like Iclicked on this as a bit.
If this is actually good, thatis hilarious.
Video game based on theFrench-Canadian anime-influenced
television series Totally Spiesfor the PS2 and the Wii.
It's like, wait, if that'sactually a good game, that is
(52:53):
amazing because it should not be.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
It sounds like we have a Deep Space and Dragons
Plays episode coming up.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
I mean kinda yeah, because that sounds hilarious.
I mean I do like the idea ofpivoting some of our gaming
streams to being us playing justrandom crap, because I'm always
on team.
Try this awful game.
Speaker 2 (53:20):
But yeah, jamboree seems to have put a lot more
focus on minigames, but theminigames have a lot less impact
on the overall game itself, andso it's kind of this paradox of
more diversity, more diversegames.
Speaker 1 (53:39):
So didn't you get your dice block changes based on
your character mechanic.
Speaker 2 (53:42):
Oh no, they cut that because that was basically just
for the team mode.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
But my rant still stays that part of the problem
with Nintendo games and Nintendothe company and the Switch too.
Is that they peaked?
I haven't seen them.
They've just kind of stoppedinnovating around the Switch era
.
The title that I can't get overis like Breath of the Wild 2
(54:10):
still only had five dungeons.
Well, breath of the Wild didthis.
Why would we try and be better?
I'm like to be better.
Speaker 2 (54:21):
The thing that bugs me about Switch era games.
I mean, I don't know, maybe Ijust didn't pay as much
attention during the Wii era,but whenever they do something
that seems innovative andinteresting, they're too scared
to commit and they just trysomething else new.
(54:41):
Yeah, and I don't know.
It just leads to veryinconsistent games because none
of their ideas are fully baked.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
And with that we pivot into our random question
of the week.
I got two of them this week.
I don't know if I've asked thisone, but it's such a Carl
question I know we've had thisconversation.
Is cereal a soup.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
Is cereal a soup?
Speaker 1 (55:09):
Is cereal a soup.
Soup is cereal a soup.
Speaker 2 (55:12):
It's cereal a soup.
Well, I mean, you'd be able tomake a stronger argument for uh
porridge being a soup uh,because it's hot.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
But then we go into that gazpacho debate that you
can have a cold soup yeah, Idon't think cold soup is really
soup.
Speaker 2 (55:29):
I don't I.
Speaker 1 (55:31):
The ocean is just soup, if you think about it, but
Water, salt, broth, seafood.
Speaker 2 (55:41):
So here's the semantics Fine soup.
Speaker 1 (55:44):
So if porridge is hot cereal, it says so on the box,
right, Right.
Speaker 2 (55:50):
So yes, Cereal is in the grain.
Speaker 1 (55:52):
Yeah, so cereal, the grain, is absolutely a soup.
When you just cook it in milk,you could absolutely make a soup
out of milk.
Cream of blank Now, cream ofCheerios, on the other hand, is
a bit more questionable.
Like, I think this is one ofthose savory versus sweets in
the nomenclature situations.
Speaker 2 (56:13):
I think like a dessert soup.
Speaker 1 (56:14):
Although some cultures are like, try this
dessert red bean soup, I'm likeit's not delicious to me, I'm
sorry, so I'm going to go with.
Cereal is a soup if you fighthard enough for it.
But you're really just doingyourself a disservice.
It's like, yes, you could geton the stage and debate Cereal
is a soup.
Put those examples of coldsoups, dairy soups, grain soups,
(56:36):
sugary soups Boom, it's a soup.
It'll be like cool if you putit in the soup aisle, no one's
going to find it idiot.
Speaker 2 (56:43):
So Webster Merriam-Webster defines soup as
a liquid food, especially withmeat, fish or vegetable stock as
a base and often containingpieces of solid food.
Speaker 1 (56:57):
So I mean Right, like you can argue it, but it's not
going to help anyone sort?
It.
Speaker 2 (57:04):
By that definition, the milk is a soup.
Speaker 1 (57:09):
Oh no.
Speaker 2 (57:09):
Oh no.
Speaker 1 (57:14):
Because it has a base well.
Speaker 2 (57:17):
Well, I mean, the definition doesn't even
exclusively say it has to have astock base.
It just or that it has toeverything solid in it.
It just says that it's liquidfood, especially with meat, fish
or vegetable stock as a baseand often containing solid
pieces of food.
Speaker 1 (57:31):
You know what's crazy , though?
I'm thinking of these creamsoups, but most of them would
still have a stock component,like I think stock would have
been the secret to preventingthis nonsense.
If, like, no, Exactly To be asoup, it has to have a stock and
if it's not from the Champagneregion, it's just sparkling
Cheerios has to.
It has to be from the soupregion of France or it's just
sparkling Cheerios.
(57:52):
That was the joke.
I botched that joke so hard andstill got the laugh.
Speaker 2 (58:00):
So yay, but I think we're in consensus that it is a
soup and we hate it.
I mean by thisMerriam-Webster's definition.
Yes, it is a soup, I'm justmaking the Richard, appeal to
semantics.
Speaker 1 (58:16):
Attention listeners.
Picture me turning to face thecamera directly.
Perfect Listen.
Just because something istechnically true doesn't make it
relevantly true If you have toargue for an object to be in a
category but you went into astore and put that object in
that category and no one couldfind it there, you're ethically
wrong.
So if you say, like Sailor Moonis a mecha anime, no one's going
(58:41):
to find Sailor Moon in themecha anime category.
If you say, um, actuallySuperman is an alien, so it
should be in the sci-fi movie,technically, sure, but you
should just make a superherocategory.
That's like a third of allmovies now and they're like,
yeah, wolverine and Deadpool isa romantic comedy.
I'd be like you're not wrong,but they're going to look in
(59:03):
that superhero section.
Speaker 2 (59:08):
So do us all a favor.
Speaker 1 (59:10):
And just because you can um actually something, put
it on the shelf where people canfind it.
Don't um actually put yourpizza pockets in with the pop
tarts.
Don't um actually put your hotdogs in with the taco meat.
Okay, guys, we can do better asa society.
Don't be like coffee is a threebean smoothie, so I'm gonna put
cans of coffee with the lentils.
Don't be like coffee is a threebean smoothie, so I'm going to
(59:31):
put cans of coffee with thelentils.
Ethically yes, you can putcoffee with the beans.
Speaker 2 (59:38):
But just put it in the breakfast aisle.
But what's?
Question number two?
Does cutting a sandwichdiagonally make it taste better.
Scientifically, yes, AgreedDone.
Speaker 1 (59:52):
It's so funny though, agreed Done.
It's so funny, though, becauseit's like.
So I was about to give a speechabout surface area where, when
you have the diagonal sandwich,you've got the nice point to dip
in your ironically tomato soup,which is a soup or your soup,
cheerios, if you want to benasty with it and like it makes
a good dipping ratio.
(01:00:12):
Front and front is the cheesefor the grilled cheese.
They look more aestheticallypleasing on the plate.
But my question to you is why?
Why would you cut your sandwichdiagonally, other than the fact
it empirically improves theflavor particles?
Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
Well, I mean, I'm kind of a savage.
I just I don't cut my sandwichat all, I just dip the whole
sandwich in the soup we're in asituation where you will be
divorced if you don't cut thesandwich uh, well see, I might
actually uh.
I watched a food theory episodeactually about the superior way
to cut your sandwich.
Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
I've also been listening to a lot of cinema
wings in the background whichsomehow food theory episode
actually about the superior wayto cut your sandwich I did pause
for a completely unrelatedtangent.
I've also been listening to alot of cinema wings in the
background which somehow didn'tmake it to what's New with
Richard, where they just pointout things they enjoyed in
movies.
That's been really good for mymental health Because I watched
their Wolverine and Deadpoolcinema wings not sponsored, just
a fan and they're like here'sthings I thought were awesome
about it.
I'm like, oh man, I shouldwatch this before every movie
(01:01:11):
and watch this person just getunreasonably hyped about
everything in the movie.
That's great.
Oh, look at Tails he caughtSonic like this movie poster.
That's a win.
Dang it, I'm like that is a win.
Anyway, back to your souptheory.
Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
Well, no, the film theory or food theory did an
episode about how to cutsandwiches and the basic gist of
it is that, like you say, ifyou cut it diagonally you
increase the surface area versusthe amount of crust and it just
actually genuinely improves theflavor.
But the ideal way to actuallycut a sandwich is to cut it in
(01:01:46):
the Y shape, so you get threepieces because that maximizes
your surface area.
In the Y shape.
So you get three pieces becausethat maximizes your surface
area.
And then, if you want tomaximize your surface area even
more, instead of cuttingvertically, you cut on a
diagonal, so you cut it into Y.
The cuts are diagonal, likeinstead of being perfectly
perpendicular to your cuttingboard, and you'll maximize the
(01:02:09):
surface area but still have astructurally sound piece of
sandwich that you can eat.
Uh, so if I were forced to cuta sandwich, I would try to do it
.
Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Uh, the food theory way to make it as um, to
maximize the impact of cuttingit versus not I see I'm gonna
put in a third bonus questionbecause we got some good
questions in this week, but Iappreciate the why cutting, so
here's a fun one.
If fish could scream, wouldfishing still be popular?
So you pull the fish out of thewater and it flops around and
(01:02:48):
just screams at the top of itslungs till you beat it to death.
Speaker 2 (01:02:54):
Okay.
Well, I mean, let's play thesituation in reverse.
When a human goes into thewater and they scream, it's not
actually super audible.
No, this fish, when we pull itout of the water, it's not
actually super audible.
Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
No, this fish when we pull it out of the water.
It's a mandrake situation.
The fish gets out of the waterand then we just hear it scream.
Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
I mean I don't think fishing would.
It still might be popular.
It's still one of the best foodsources.
Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
It would be more savage.
We would kill those fish somuch more aggressively.
I think it would drasticallyincrease the amount of electro
savage.
We would kill those fish somuch more aggressively.
I think it would drasticallyincrease the amount of
electro-taser fishing we do, orunderwater murdering of the fish
we do.
Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
Or you just harpoon it from above and then pull it
in.
Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
But yeah, I don't know.
I'm not sure that the streamingwould be that unsettling,
because fish have a hard timebreathing in air, alright, and
with that screaming would bethat unsettling because fish
have a hard time breathing inair.
Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
All right, and with that, like we have some good
questions, We'll save some ofthem, but I believe that it
would make fishingrecreationally less popular,
more popular among sociopaths,and the fishing industry would
become ridiculously savage, Likewe think caged chicken is bad.
(01:04:14):
The things we would do if fishcould like scream for their
rights.
Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
Well, I mean catch and release would definitely
become less popular.
Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
But like we need fish , it's a food source, a good one
.
With all those deliciousbatteries and mercury, our robot
overlords will be pleasedalright well thank you everybody
for tuning in something,something book something,
(01:04:44):
something love each other,something, something global
warming well, I mean you forgotabout the something, something
self care hydrate.
Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
Mean you forgot about this something, something
self-care hydrate, whatnot?
You know, exercise, see the sundon't test a fish scream.
That seems mean I feel likeit's been scientifically proven
that they don't scream.
Oh, I'm not sure if anybody hasdone those experiments with any
sort of scientific rigor.
Speaker 1 (01:05:10):
Plus there's some really deep underwater fish.
Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
Ooh, that's a good point.
Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
But I do enjoy that.
We're just like just cutting asandwich to angrily make it
taste better, like, yes, duh,idiot, wait.
The only thing that's nearly asgood is when you take too much
effort to cut it into likelittle cubes and do like the
stacked fancy sandwiches where,like no crust, we cut each
sandwiches to four perfect cubes, then stack them like a
(01:05:36):
psychopath?
Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
yeah, but at that point you almost need a
toothpick to hold your sandwichtogether but then you eat it off
the toothpick like a member ofthe Kingsman.
Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
yeah, what does it have been when cinema win?
Once I watch, was everythingAwesome with the Kingsmen.
I'm like you're right.
Show, this is an awesome moviethat just has insane
choreography for no reason.
Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
Oh, I love Kingsman Secret Service.
I don't know if I saw the otherKingsman movie, but Fair enough
, maybe next week.
Well, maybe
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