Episode 85: Purple Ninja;, Cyber Noir

Click Here to send in your random question to have a chance to win!

What do you do when a purple ninja wielding a shotgun crosses your path in broad daylight? Join us as Richard and Karl tackle this wild encounter, laugh through the absurdity of it, and provide some real-life safety tips along the way. Karl also gives a quirky yet critical review of "Beetlejuice 2," lamenting its missed opportunities, while Richard shares his latest binge-worthy obsession, the hilariously dramatic "Kangan Asura." 

Ever wondered what it's like to be transformed into a crime-fighting cyborg by a date who thinks you're soulmates? We brainstorm this bizarre sci-fi scenario, diving into the ethics and potential noir narrative twists. Our conversation flows seamlessly into analyzing unreliable narrators in storytelling, referencing both serious and comedic examples like "Black Butler." We even take a nostalgic trip to an experimental noir episode of Samurai Jack, mixing in insights about how to craft compelling narratives with genre elements.

Finally, we celebrate our favorite cartoon characters as hypothetical best friends, debating the merits of having everyone from Robin Williams’ Genie to Pikachu as a sidekick. We also explore the evolution of noir in modern media, drawing parallels between "Altered Carbon," "Cowboy Bebop," and other iconic series. Wrap up your day with our whirlwind of storytelling that blurs the lines between fiction and real life, filled with humor, wild anecdotes, and thoughtful analysis.

Support the show

Follow all things Richard and Karl, and check out "The Minuet of Sorcery"
https://linktr.ee/rajkevis

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome across the cosmos to Richard and some guy
present Deep Space and Dragons.
I'm Richard.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
And I am some guy whose name you may or may not
know.
If you've been tuning in thepast, you know like two years.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
You know, I would love it if someone made it this
far into our show and it wasRichard and whoever the other
guy was.
That would just be great,especially if, like those two
fans meet each other the onewith the full Carl tattoo and
the one who has no idea who theother co-host is and they just
get in this huge fight.
It'd be like making it to theend of Naruto and not
remembering who Sasuke is.
Peak Peak entertainment value.

(00:36):
Or like who's your favoritecharacter in One Piece.
Oh, I really like the Marines.
The Marines.
Like I, really like the Marines,the Marines Like I just hate
how this one kid keeps taking upthe screen time that's supposed
to be going to Garp and PalsLove the Garp show.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
That would be pretty funny.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
What's new in the Some Guyverse?

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Well, okay, so I got a little short and a true mini
review.
Um do I?
Get a time no, no, I don't.
I don't have a rating system,so I it's.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
I guess maybe it's not a true review, but to be
fair, beetlejuice now I'm gonnapause you on that one and
completely distract your episodeas someone who's taken many
courses on writing reviewstaught by literal reviewists,
scores are the worst thing youcan do when you're a reviewer
Actual critics and actualreviews.
Don't give scores.
But then you'll put out yourreview for Iggin and then

(01:40):
they'll give it a score based onwhat you said.
Scores aren't actually goodreviewing they're the shallowest
way to do it.
It's like power levels in SevenDeadly Sins.
They mean nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Anyways, I went and saw Beetlejuice 2.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
I almost got you.
Can I make you restart one moretime?

Speaker 2 (02:00):
No, maybe.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
You almost got it what that?

Speaker 2 (02:03):
I went and saw Beetlejuice 2?

Speaker 1 (02:04):
Gotcha, you said 3.
Ha ha, ha Trapped you.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Ah, I see, I see what you did there.
Please continue now that you'regoing to die tonight.
Beetlejuice doesn't just likekill people.
Who knows, maybe he'd beattracted to me and want to get
married to me.
You know what that tracks,anyways.
So the original Beetlejuice wasquirky and I mean it's old and

(02:33):
some of its concepts have beenrecycled, but it's still
actually, I think it feels fresh.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
So I need to throw a new word Macabre-dy.
Macabre and comedy, becausethat's a genre consisting of
Beetlejuice and the AddamsFamily and occasionally
Ghostbusters.
Macabre Because, like I'm sure,they call it like a gothic
comedy, like what we do in theshadows, but I know those two
words can combine.
We've got a C in there, butplease continue while I try and

(03:01):
solve this linguistics puzzlethere, but please continue while
I try and solve thislinguistics puzzle.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Uh, but um, be able to use two is quirky, still for
sure.
Um, and the a plot has a lot ofpotential, uh, but the b plot
was a complete waste of time.
Uh, like it had no impact onthe overall story.
Um and uh, it's just.

(03:28):
I think they really missed themark there, like I thought it
had a lot of potential and thenthey just wasted so much time on
the b plot.
Uh, and overall I I think thefirst beetlejuice was was
actually better than the secondone, it's.
So you know what's amusing?

Speaker 1 (03:46):
So you've been going through a lot of classic things.
You're like oh, I once saw thisplay, I watched this movie and
then me out here with my I don'tknow 40-plus lit glasses.
You know what I'm watching?
Kangan Asura.
The single dumbest thing.
When they made the dramaticreveal last episode that one was

(04:07):
the kangen and the other wasthe azura, paired together.
That is a line I am notparaphrasing.
It turns out the old dude isthe kangen because of his
bloodline and he's paired withthe azura.
So of course the legend of thekangen azura strikes new.
I love when an anime yells outthe title, the dumber, the title
of the anime.
The better that moment, pleasecontinue.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Well, I mean, I don't want to give any spoilers, I
don't want to go into too muchdetail.
What I actually want to talkabout, which is more of a public
service announcement, Nice Note.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
the values and views held by this show are Richard
and some guy and should not betaken seriously by anyone.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
Don't sue us Well, okay, in 2009, there was a story
that was circulated about abank teller that his window was
getting robbed, that his windowwas getting robbed and he like
jumped over the counter and beatthe guy up and then the guy ran

(05:09):
away and they tackled him andheld him until the police got
there, right.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
Never do that.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
And then afterwards he was fired because he didn't
follow protocol.
Yeah, which would be to justgive the guy the money.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
The money is federally insured and like you
don't want to escalate thesituation, people and other
people do it.
People die right.

(05:44):
Like you don't mess around, youdo not under any circumstances
want your staff membersheroically dying over company
profits.
Like no.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
But so what's new with me?
You know it was.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
Is you tackled someone through a window?

Speaker 2 (06:03):
No, no, no, it was a slow Saturday evening, early
evening.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
Twilight golden hour.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
The sun was still up, it was all right.
And my boss he was boredbecause it was slow and he's
kind of just pacing back andforth.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
Has he considered reading the Waltz of?

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Blades Doing things to annoy his wife who was making
pizzas.
Wow, you're not even going todignify that plug with a
response.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
But fine, go on.
That was such an organicadvertisement and everything.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
You know he likes to do things like squeak his shoes
or, like you know, scrape themon the floor to annoy his wife,
or he'll like hang bills upsidedown, or he'll make them print
really, really long with longgaps.
Anyways, he was bored, he wasjust messing about.
Uh, the door beeps and he seescustomer come in.
Uh, but this particularcustomer, uh, was wearing a

(06:58):
purple sweat, purple sweaterwrapped around their head with
like the hood over their upperhead, and then the rest of the
sweater wrapped around theirhead with like the hood over
their upper head, and then therest of the sweater wrapped
around their, their like jaw.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
So I am like picturing the most generic final
fantasy ninja enemy uh, he,definitely.
He did kind of have a genericninja look like not a good ninja
, like a bad, like you got eightbits and you did what you could
, ninja yeah I mean, he didn'treally, didn't really do uh, the
full outfit, the full ensemblehe's.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
He was just wearing like black clothes otherwise.
But um, as my boss rounds thecorner, uh, the guy pulls a
sawed-off shotgun out of his,out of his pants you know this
was going.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
What so the thing is you tell me, because you think
like, oh, this should be saidoff stream because this is
important.
And the things you don't tellme.
I've once said that carl'sspecial power is he universally
rates all things as equallyinteresting.
Because then I didn't get aheads up about this.
No, please, why would we have abackup talking for this episode

(08:02):
At work, someone pulled a badlydressed ninja pulled a sawn-off
shotgun on your boss In youractual real life In Canada.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
Okay, so I mean firstly the front door, there's
like the long counter and youhave to come around the side and
then you have to go all the wayaround the counter to get into
the kitchen because the door ison the opposite side of the
opening on the counter.
Ok, and the guy didn't waitvery long, he just as soon as he
saw someone coming to serve him, he just started like trying to

(08:34):
pull it out of his pants.
And so my boss immediately wasjust like oh, everybody run.
And he like kind of shuffleseverybody and we all, we all
kind of go through, go throughthe door and head outside,
except for our, my poorco-worker, uh, james t kirk
perfect.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
But also I don't really want to joke about this
because someone might die inthis story in the next 10
seconds okay.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
So I I it is serious like I say, um, yes, earlier the
, the, the guy that worked forthe bank, got fired because it
is unsafe to try and be a hero.
Oh no, and it's just not worthit.
And so, like poor poor James TKirk, he was bent over picking

(09:21):
something up off the groundright behind the line as my boss
shuffled us all away, and bythe time he stood up he had the
gun pointed at his face.
What Now?
Luckily James is a pro.
Apparently he's been involvedwith like six or seven armed
robberies.

(09:41):
So he just puts his hands up.
By pro do you mean cursed?
He might be cursed, but so heputs his hands up and the robber
directs him to the till.
He opens the till, puts themoney on the counter and then
the robber takes the money outthe front door.
And so then we see the robberleave out the front door.

(10:06):
We kind of follow him a littlebit to see where he's going, but
then everyone kind of headsback inside.
The police show up pretty muchright away, because especially
gun incidents are a highpriority for the police.
They will respond very quicklyif there's a gun involved, a
little bit less quickly if it'slike a knife or a baseball bat,

(10:27):
and then if there's no weapon,then you'll get a response
eventually.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
What is this?

Speaker 2 (10:31):
world you live in.
No, I'm just saying that,logically speaking, there are
degrees of severity of crime andit's like I think a domestic
abuse case would probably bepretty high up on the scale.
But, like, gun violence is liketheir number one priority.
They want to put a stop to that.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Can I give a weird mini rant?
I just have to give a weirdmini rant.
Stop trying to rob low-incomepoor people.
So the law office.
I'm at a law office which dealswith triple digit, quadruple
digit, million dollar cases.
Our door's wide open.
A door's not plugged in it.

(11:12):
There's cake at the desk.
We offer you a coffee.
There's a self-serve minifridge.
We have no like magicalprotections going on, but they
choose the pizzeria.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
Well, yeah, and I mean Supper Rush is a somewhat
reasonable time.
I mean it was still light out,which is a little bit of like.
Ok, you don't understand.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
Your pizzeria will never have as much money in it
as a law firm.
You're probably right Ever comeclose.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
We only had like a couple hundred dollars in the
till at the time.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
Kind of my point, not that much, but we got the
footage.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
They radioed the description of the suspect and
the guy was caught within 10minutes.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
Well, yeah, he dressed as a purple ninja and
pulled a shotgun on someone.
This was not a perfect crime.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah, like I say, middle of the day he didn't even
have enough time to take offhis ninja headband.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
Well, the thing is say he actually dressed as like
Itachi in the Akatsuki, right?
Then what you do is you go tothe bathroom, put on makeup
remover, take off your outfitand they'll never know who you
were, because they'll be lookingfor the person with the red
spiral eyes instead of regulareyes.
That is so crazy.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
Your life is insane um, but the the the moral of the
story is, uh, that, like a lotof people, the story from 2009
about the bank teller that gotfired a lot of online responses
were the outrage that this guygot fired for being a hero, uh,
but I mean, in my personalexperience, he could have got

(12:51):
everyone killed.
Yeah, I mean, at the end of theday, apparently, uh, the weapon
was not loaded and he didn'thave any ammunition on him.
But you don't want to find out.
Yeah, you, you don't want tofind out.
Well, like and like, propertydamage could have happened if,
if, uh, like, like, if he hadfired his shotgun at the oven,

(13:13):
uh, and hit like a gas line orsomething like geez so, like
once upon a time when me and youwere walking down the street
with swords, we got pulled overby the police for walking down
the street with swords.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
Right, they were props yeah, they were wooden
swords, they were props, no real, no real swords in the story,
but they should have pulled usover because we were walking
down the street with what lookedlike swords.
Like I'm a firm believer insensible choices.
If someone puts a gun to yourface, do not think you're john w
in that moment.

(13:44):
Think you're John, just a guynamed John, like John Arbuckle.
Default to John Arbuckle, notJohn Wick, is the takeaway here.
Be like I got a cat at home.
No risks to be taken today.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
But yeah, so I mean that's what's new with me.
Is that my work got?

Speaker 1 (14:04):
The shotgun story being like the B plot and the A
plot being Beetlejuice.
The musical is just wild.
Like I don't even know how toprocess this information Because
we're comedy.
I'm like, well, I'm glad no onegot hurt, but no warning from
my delightful co-host here, sohe could have been like so I'm
in the hospital right now, myarm's gone, and I'd be like,

(14:28):
yeah, you would do the podcastif your arm shot off.
Why would you not?
What else would you do?
You're stuck in this bedarmless.
You might as well do a podcast.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Might as well, I'd say.
Fortunately no one was hurt andthe assailant was apprehended
very quickly.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
So what's funny is so I live in Brampton Spoilers,
they figured this out.
I have an author profile myface is on the book, anywho and
people in Brampton like to sayBrampton's sketchy, right,
because they've never lived inreality, right.
So they'll be like, ooh,brampton's sketchy.
I'm like, oh no, someone gotheld up by Knife Point and it's

(15:10):
like what?
Saskatchewan wasn't thatsketchy.
I'm like Purple Ninja pulledshotgun out of his pants.
That is the thing I get to tellpeople happened Unironically,
it just happened, people justtake picnic tables there.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
It's crazy lawless hellscape it is a lawless
hellscape.
Oh that is just so wild Nowthat I've made my public safety
announcement, you know, justlike like say, if you're ever
being in a violent confrontation, it's best not to resist.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
So here's the thing about my life over the last five
years now.
Since returning to academia andworking primarily
academia-related jobs like lawfirm editing, podcasting, school
events, pathway fairs.
It's funny because I have sucha state of zen, because no one

(16:06):
pulls shotguns on me, becauseit's like I'm in this law firm
looking up some papers doing mything and boss is like oh, you
haven't taken a break today.
I'm like, yeah, I have a chair,I have smooth jazz playing and
I'm reading through a redactedabout redacted.
This is the least stressed I'veever.
The fridge is stocked.
You don't understand.
This is the least stressed I'veever.
The fridge is stocked.
You don't understand, sir.

(16:26):
We work a job where I can get up, have a cupcake and drink this
and I don't have to tell anyoneI'm doing this.
I can just do this at myleisure.
The book will wait for me whenI get back.
I can just go to the bathroom.
I don't have to announce it, Idon't have to check in with
anyone, I could just go.
Like our entry-level jobs areso savage.
Who decided that cashiers don'tget chairs?

(16:50):
Because I don't know if there'sa bad enough afterlife for that
person, like Soul Society istoo good for the person who
decided that cashiers workslower if they have a chair.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
Ooh, I mean, that does sound like it might be the
Beetlejuice afterlife, butthat's neither here nor there.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
Or what was it, I think I don't remember the name
of the movie.
I think it was something likeWrist Cutters, where when you
die, you just go to a slightlyworse version of reality.
If you kill yourself, oh, aslike punishment, it's just the
same life but blander, like thecolors are just washed out more
and the food tastes more likeredacted fast food workplace,

(17:31):
because it's like.
This situation is just so crazyto me because, like I said,
some of these places I workedhave such higher stakes but such
lower intensity that it causesa weird dissonance.
Like, for example, theregistration office at Redacted
School I go to was behind oneveryone's registration

(17:52):
paperwork, so everyone doesn'tget their student loans for a
couple weeks longer.
So, if you think about that, ifyou assume that if you miss a
payment I have to take out apayday loan, that's 200 bucks
and every student's paymentpayday loan.
That's 200 bucks and everystudent's payment was late.
That's like $200,000 lost overthat bureaucracy and no one

(18:13):
cares.
Imagine if one of yourco-workers cost your franchise
$200,000.
Because they didn't click sendon a button.
You think they'd care right,but they don't send on a button.
You think they'd care right,but they don't Because they have
money.
Why would they care?
Yeah, that's pretty crazy, soit's like wild to look at just

(18:34):
some of these contexts.
Like it'll be.
Like we've started this newgreen trash can initiative,
dropped $10 million on new trashcans and I'm just like.
The world is insane.
So I mean mean that's enoughabout the wild west of
Saskatchewan let's meet youthere, richard well, I kind of

(18:55):
weaved a bit of news with mekind of into it casually.
So for the summer I've beenvolunteering at literary
magazines, working at a law firm, living my best life.
Tomorrow I'm going to amagazine launch.
Tomorrow I'm going to amagazine launch.
No, Thursday I'm going to amagazine launch.
Good luck hunting me down.
Then Sunday I'm going to a bookfestival.
Then.
I'm working on this big studentinitiative project that I can't

(19:17):
really talk too much about.
So I have a bunch of high-endprojects going on, working on my
next book See, my little nerdbrain is very happy.
So my new project with theschool means I have to go in
person three days a week and Ithink that's really good for my
mental health, because I thinkI've spent too much time at home
over the last couple months andI'm starting to go mildly

(19:41):
insane.
It's starting to go mildlyinsane.
It's like I need to leave thehouse and not be working on
projects to get inspired forprojects Like while reading
through the Rental PropertiesAct, boom, entire psychic power
system comes to my mind clear asday, Because my brain is trying

(20:01):
to escape reality.
But since my life isn't sad andtraumatic anymore, I need to
force myself into escapistsituations to trigger my
imagination.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
Nah, but in all honesty it's been like pretty.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
Escapism.
Like not actually Like it'sbeen a very low-key but good
summer.
Like people like to be likedon't you want a guy who's
adventurous, enjoys travel,wants to see the world?
Like no, why would I want to bethat guy?
That sounds terrible.
I like my comfort zone.
It's so comfy, I didn't spendfive years making a cozy life to

(20:33):
then leave it to explore.
You people mad I'm like a newBaldur's Gate patch launched and
they added in official modsupport.
Yeah, why would I leave?
But nah like.
I'm going to some literaryevents and a book launch this
weekend, which is pretty cool,and other than playing some
Gundam Breaker and that's prettymuch all I've been up to really

(20:56):
is being chill because it turnsout studying for LSATs and
being a lawyer is atime-consuming endeavor, Even as
a volunteer capacity.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
Are you allowed to say what book launch you're
going to?

Speaker 1 (21:13):
I am actually so an acquaintance of mine.
Another Branton author haswritten a new book called
Countess.
It's Susan Palumbo and it is asci-fi, anti-colonial Count of
Monte Cristo in space.
Yeah, a post-colonial spaceopera, take on.

(21:35):
Dumas' novel moves at awhiplash-inducing pace, spends a
specular of reamps of classics.
We'll find plenty to enjoy.
Quote Publisher Weekly so youknow the things I enjoy in book
form.
Yeah, yeah.
So like it's a good, solid lgbtplus sci-fi retelling of things

(21:56):
, which makes me happy and it'sright in my genre.
So I'm like this is good stuff.
Like plus, I'm always happy tosee an author like make it, make
it be like oh, look at you withyour English degree hitting it
and getting the interviews,going on the book tours and
watching your career skyrocket.
That's inspiring to watch thathappen to a human being.

(22:16):
That makes me not regret mylife choices at all.
It shows possibility in thecraft.
But seriously, seeing anacquaintance of mine start
winning rewards for a piece ofscience fiction makes me happy.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
Understandably so.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Because it seems to be doing mainstream good, not
just sci-fi good.
The press that does it ECWPress typically does more
non-fiction essays and culturepieces.
I believe.
I'm trying to remember what thepress was originally called, but
like it was like entertainment,culture and writing or
something like that.

(22:52):
Okay, so it's.
They don't actually have a tonof science fiction in their
catalog.
Yeah, entertainment, cultureand writing.
So they try and like build tothe cultural capital of canada
through their things, so they'recan Canadian publisher.
So for a sci-fi piece to takeit off, that means the core
undertonings, the actualmessaging behind it, has to be

(23:15):
really strong.
So I'm excited to go.
Plus, when they were doingtheir book touring they were
cosplaying the cape and theaesthetic and I just respect the
idea of showing up to a booksigning in a cape.
That's like I regret that forwatching my first book I didn't
like show up to plate mail forbook signings.
Like that is like clearlylesson learned.

(23:36):
Why would I not do that?

Speaker 2 (23:37):
it's an excuse to be awesome well, speaking of sci-fi
, um mean, it's not exactly aperfect segue, because the
intended topic is noir fiction.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
Is that where we're going with this?
Because I thought like speakingof.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
You see, I chose the topic of noir fiction for a
couple of reasons.
For a couple reasons, but thefirst one being, as Richard
knows, I have written a sci-fishort story of my own which I'm
planning on submitting to amagazine, the FF magazine.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yes, Fusion Fragment magazine.
They're excellent.
They're open for submissions.
Check out their latest issueSupport literary magazines.
They're a stepping stonebetween new and established
writers.
Yeah, that's my plug.
They do not sponsor this show.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
But so, as Richard has said, off-stream and maybe
on-stream too, but there are alot of literary magazines and I
was thinking it's like well,even if I don't get submitted,
even if I don't get published inthe magazine that I'm going for
, there's other options, but itwould be better to write a

(24:57):
different story.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
You're right.
Well, you are to a certainextent.
You're definitely like.
So literally.
Magazines will often say ifthey accept simultaneous
submissions or not.
Zines will often say if theyaccept simultaneous submissions
or not.
If they accept simultaneoussubmissions, usually aiming for
like three or four in your genre, is completely reasonable to do
so for your story.
It's like not everyone willaccept it and sometimes people

(25:20):
can get over, fixated on asingular goal.
So if I were you, I'd probablysend your story to.
I have like a list of fivescience fiction ones.
But you're right, you don't justwait on that one story and keep
trying.
Once that's out there, youcontinue writing, because
writing is how you write yourcraft.
But I am deeply curious whereyou're going with this.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
Well, okay, so I'm trying to think of another
sci-fi concept and I came backon a random question I have,
which actually.
Okay, I'll ask you there,Richard.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
What.
You're not going to bring athird person in the middle of
our episode.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
Say you meet someone on a dating app right.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
What that's so hard to believe.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
What that's so hard to believe.
You go on the date.
It's fantastic, and then youwake up in their laboratory and
they've turned you into a crimefighting cyborg because they
think you're their soulmate.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
Would you fight crime with them?
So you've definitely asked methis question before somewhere.
Probably it's been in my mindfor a long time.
As much as I can't figure outthe pipeline to how this ends up
being about noir fiction,because I'm super on board with
random sci-fi short storypitches.
That's my vibe.
I will happily entertain sci-fipitches the wackier the better,
but because of who I am.

(26:41):
So in the terrible Mega man 90scartoon back when they just
felt like Mega man wasn't sexistenough, it's like okay, we're
going to give Roll a vacuumcleaner and have them be a robot
housekeeper while Mega man goesand fights crime.
I'm like Mega Man's supposed tobe 12.
Why are we playing into any who?
I would most definitely, whenmade a cyborg to fight crime,

(27:05):
end up as a house husband.
When made a cyborg to fightcrime, end up as a house husband
.
It might not be instant, itmight not be overnight, but if
my nature is a being, myUpgrader would become clearly
apparent that my fingers turninginto knives is better suited
for sashimi.
How much my culinary abilitieswould improve if, first off,

(27:25):
thank you for turning me into arobot.
I'm giving partial consent tothis, if you know what you're
doing, because my body sucks.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
This is a well-established fact like if I
end up a dysgraphic robot.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
I'm gonna be very displeased it's so terrible so
like, realistically, the robotupgrade, like if I'm getting dr
gerode, it's probably helping meout.
But you know I am super big onconsent, so like there's couples
counseling.
That needs to happen here forthis to be an acceptable choice

(27:58):
unless it was some weird culturething.
So, hot take, there was ananimated series about an old man
where aliens accidentally killhim and they rebuild him as a
super cyborg.
The aliens didn't know better.
So the person who makes me intoa cyborg is literally an alien
or a time traveler or from avery cyborg culture, and simply

(28:19):
has never been explained thatyou need consent to cyborg
people and then, after we havethis talk, they solemnly swear
to never cyborg anyone else.
They didn't understand,understand.
They thought they were helping.
I'd give them a pass because Ihave issues and deep-seated
loneliness problems, okay, butso?
So the answer is yes, withseveral asterisks, because they

(28:41):
really cannot be going arounddoing this to people, people,
okay, but so then, uh, Irealized, um, that's more of an
event and not really a story, soit's interesting.
So when I was giving this,while my professor was giving
this talk a few years back weeksback I think, I mentioned a

(29:02):
previous episode.
He was talking about the.
What is the catalyst to start astory?
Right, your first 10 ideas downthat you think would be a good
start of a story.
Now erase the first 10 becausethey've been done before, so
like coming up with an originalstart is tricky and sometimes
I'm always on the fence whetheror not I really think
originality is that importantright because I'm a fine of

(29:25):
refining the craft and I read alot of derivative things.
Most, most things are justbased on John Carter on Mars
after all.
That I enjoy, so whatever.
But, like as you said, it's acatalyst to start a story, but
that's not actually what thestory's about.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Right If the story was about it.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
it would literally be they start dating this person
and you would make that be likethe climax of the story, as they
wake up in the basement as arobot and it would become a
really Robotcom, rombotcom,rombotcom.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
No, no.
So I started thinking of waysto actually make this into a
story and I settled on.
Instead of focusing on thekidnapper robot dynamic, I'm
more so focusing on it being amissing person's case that's
being investigated.

(30:23):
I mean you could go that way andI'm like you know, yeah, well,
I mean, the investigatorprobably has a cybernetic eye.
I'm toying with the idea thatit was like an AI that got
implanted into them and the AIis actually taking over their
brain, but they're still tryingto fight crime.
Anyways, I don't know, there'slots of ideas on the table, but

(30:45):
the main thing is that I waslike well, I mean, Richard
mentioned a while back that hemight want to write a noir story
.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
My idea no stealing Swipe or no swiping.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
It seems like an interesting idea.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
Swipe or no swiping?

Speaker 2 (31:01):
And then I realized I don't know what noir is.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
So here's what's really interesting about noir,
because this is a good pivot.
Whenever I think noir, my braingoes to a weird episode of
Samurai Jack.
Okay, there's an episode ofSamurai Jack about a robot I
think it was X-23 or somethingwho was sent after to kill the
samurai because his dog gottaken.

(31:27):
But they completely frame it asa noir style black and white,
dark, eternal monologue tohimself trying to track down
this person to get hissweetheart puppy back.
And they use like as many noirfilm tropes as they could.
And then your protagonistyou've been following just gets
uncereimoniously ended by jack.

(31:48):
Oh, and this episode's like 90darker than the rest of the show
and was like samurai jack wasgood for just doing weird
experimental things with theirepisodes.
A week format, right, and I'mlike, yeah, they're just like
let's just steep this in tropesbecause you can absolutely have
robotic noir.
So here hereby, because I wasresearching this myself recently

(32:10):
, the definition for noir is adark, gritty story about,
typically framed in a 1960surban setting, where a morally
ambiguous character narratestheir actions, typically evolved
around a bad-hearted dame or agood-hearted dame, and about the
moral ambiguity of crime andeffect, and typically is

(32:33):
resolved as a as, not amelodrama.
Bittersweet ending.
So like cowboy bebop was easilynoir themed because you got
spike narrating it being morallyambiguous as he argues like
good and value of a human life,and then spoilers for Cowboy
Bebop getting shot at the endhas noir film vibes because,

(32:56):
like noir, films really likeCasablanca energy, and it's one
of those tropes where I'veprobably seen parodied more than
I've seen originals because,it's easy to do the hardball
Detective episode in black andwhite.
Even Ruby Chibi does it a coupletimes.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Well, so interestingly, I looked up a
website.
I was like how to write noir?
All right, I'd love to hearyour definition.
Well, no, I mean my definition.
The main difference between mydefinition and your definition
is that everything is done onthe backdrop of systemic

(33:33):
corruption.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
Oh, I missed that yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
That's really the only difference between what you
described and what I found as adefinition, but I'm reading
through this list of all thedifferent beats of noir and how
you should design your character.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
Also 90s Batman Batman the anime series is one
of the most noir things evercreated.
Also blimps, for some reason.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
But the website itself wasn't actually all that
helpful.
It was like oh, usually there'sdetectives, but not always.
Usually they're a maleprotagonist, but not always.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
I was like, hey, like , so I think so I think part of
my explanation that might helpyour clarity is it's the gritty
internal monologue.
That's actually why it'susually detectives, but
sometimes isn't.
You need a character who'sdisillusioned, gets shown a
silver lining and then thatsilver lining gets taken away.

(34:34):
So detectives are such anatural device for the okay, I'm
morally ambiguous in a morallyambiguous situation, trying to
find the truth, and then thetruth can't be satisfying in
noir, the truth, and then thetruth can't be satisfying in
noir.
So like when you go to sin city,or even batman, for example,
batman ended up as a detective,not because he beat anyone with

(34:58):
prep come at me, bro, but thatlets him.
Looks at, oh, this psychiatristbroke trying to save him and
there's no happy ending here.
Or oh, this former socialitehas fallen down our times and
the girl I was seeing turns outto be a cat burglar.
It lets you have that likedissonance of like, trying to

(35:20):
find silver lines where therearen't any right.
So detective naturally leadsyou to a character who
monologues, because you needthat internal monologue or
external monologue as theframing device.
Who?
does case studies, and that'swhy noir is usually typically
really, really episodic.
Does that help at all?
I'm legitimately trying to helphere.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
Well, I mean, I've also been been doing my own, my
own researching, and at the endof this list of 11 elements of
noir they're like here's someclassic noir to read and
actually I gotta grab it andmake sure.
The first book that theyrecommended which I was able to
find it on the Libby app for thepublic library is by Raymond

(36:06):
Chandler and it's called the BigSleep.
Yeah, and it's about DetectivePhilip Marlowe.
Apparently, in film, he is mostfamously portrayed by Liam
Neeson.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
Ha.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
But Liam Neeson seems like a natural fit for this
detective internal monologuething like I just I so it's kind
of interesting.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
So sherlock holmes isn't noir because a bad guy did
it right like, I like.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
I think the thing that like separates noir from
detective is a good guy doingbad things rather than a bad guy
doing good things but so I, I'm, I'm reading through, uh, I'm
looking at this, I'm like itturns out that this is part of a
series with about philipmarlowe, and I'm I'm like

(37:01):
two-thirds of the way throughthe first book, the big sleep,
uh, and I was like, well, I kindof thought I mean, obviously,
as you pointed out, with batman,um, uh, it doesn't necessarily
have to be like a fatal tragicending.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
Well, I do have to clarify batman's only noir in
early batman things when he'sthe main character.
So in the batman animatedseries where he's going around
being detectives or Batman yearone type stuff, it's noir.
The moment Superman enters it'sno longer noir because we're no
longer following from hisinternal and external point of

(37:37):
view, Right.
I just need that clarificationthat Batman quickly stops being
noir when someone makes a giantgreen glowy fist and punches
someone.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
That's definitely true.
Um, and I just it surprised methat something considered noir
could be a series, because Ikind of I felt there's like it
made it sound like theybasically had to die at the end
of the series or at the end ofthe story.
I was like huh, and so then Ilooked into it and it's like,

(38:09):
apparently, a lot of what weconsider noir is actually hard
boiled.
I could see that, which isbasically the same as noir,
except for at the end of thestory everything is resolved and
the morally ambiguous characterbasically comes away with clean

(38:33):
hands basically comes away withclean hands.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
So it's interesting because I'm on TV tropes with
film noir pulled up, becausethat's what you do right.
And the tropes they bring upare the bittersweet ending that
anyone could die, the black andgray morality emerging from the
shadows.
Everyone smokes.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
Yeah, that's probably true Police are useless.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
Police brutality, private eye monologues Screw the
rules.
I have connections.
Screw the rules.
I have money.
Screw the rules.
I make them.
Sherlock scam.
Smoking is cool, snow meansdeath.
Social service does not exist.
Sympathy for the devil Too goodfor the sinful earth.
Unreliable narrator, weatherreport opening and who watches
the Watchmen?

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Oh and photo identification denial.
I have no idea how to reallypull off the unreliable narrator
.
I don't know how you would doit.
It sounds like it'd be a reallyinteresting challenge.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
You kind of have to be first person, so I have an
interesting talk with someonewho is helping edit one of their
books a while back, where, whenyou have a third person
narrator, if that third personnarrator isn't a character, you
assume they're telling the truth.
You assume facts are factsbecause your brain is
shorthanding the prose and theexposition, right?

(39:58):
So yeah, if your narrator's nota character, they can't be
unreliable or reliable and youjust get mad because then the
book was just wrong, right?
so there's no narrator when it'sdoing third person.
But you can do a limited thirdperson and give that a bit of
voice to it.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
So ironically, Fullmetal.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
Alchemist was narrated by Father Okay, and
there's a bit where he voicesall the title change cards
except the last one because he'sdead, oh.
So if you go that oh, this wasthe character that was like the
Horatio that framed the story,then you can add a bit of
unreliable to it.
But for written noir I just gotto feel like first person or
limited third person, where youslide just into his point of

(40:46):
view is how you would do it.
But I also am weirdly like I'mnot a fan of unreliable
narrators.
In serious settings, like incomedy, it makes sense.
But I do find like theunreliable narrator is less
interesting than just you're inthis person's internal world and

(41:07):
you're just limiting what theysee in the information they have
.
Like if you make sure yournarrator only knows things that
they should know because you'vezoomed the camera of sorts in,
then you can slip in detailssubtly.
But as I've said before, plottwists that aren't foreshadowed
aren't interesting.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
So like it really depends on the kind of
unreliable narrator you want,because there's unreliable
narrator as in the book's lyingto you, right, and then there's
information missing narrator,where they put together the
pieces because you've limitedthe pieces, and then there's
glass onion, where you just havethe mystery.
Be so stupid, the character'slike this is so stupid.

(41:47):
It's like a glass onion.
The layers mean nothing becauseyou can see right to the middle
.
It's just dumb.
It's not so dumb, it'sbrilliant, it's just just dumb.
I just like Glass Onion.
Just shout out to the KnivesOut saga, which did not need a
sequel but somehow crushed it.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yeah, I did enjoy that sequel, but I'm not
necessarily saying that I wantto use an unreliable narrator in
my story.
Of course not.
I just that is one of theelements that the website I
looked at was like yeah,sometimes the narrator is
unreliable because, uh, theyview their actions as pure and

(42:27):
heroic, but then the actualityof what they're doing is is
brutal and and uh, and thesecret is definitely cognitive
dissonance by taking their pointof view and framing it so what
they're doing sounds good whileit's brutal.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
So a line actually came up.
I was watching a review ofBlack Butler recently.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
A review okay.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
So in this review a character is about to for lack
of a polite term beat hisfiancée, Like, just smack her.
And then the character, theevil demon butler, as it were,
is like here and goes to handthem a cane so they don't hurt
their hand.
Okay, so that's insanely dark,right, Right.

(43:13):
But like, oh, I get it.
This character who's evil, witha smile, is like, oh, I get it.
This character who's evil, witha smile, is like, oh, if you're
going to be bad, do it wrong.
And it's a way to kind of showthat the character is super in
the wrong.
Because, well, you're going tohit them but you draw the line
at using a stick.
I think you're a terribleperson.
But the reader reviews thatwithout actually taking direct
information from the story.

(43:33):
Right, use that withoutactually taking direct
information from the story,right?
So that's kind of how you woulddo.
It is say I was writing Evil,Carl, let's go with Jarl.
So, Jarl, you have Jarl beabout to kick a puppy.
And then you have Jarl, thinkthese beasts unclean, untame

(43:53):
everywhere, and I just know of aflick of my boot I could
protect someone from it.
And then the corgi coaststhrough the air and slams into
the wall Because I said thecorgi, not the dog.
I've made this narrator superunreliable because they
described this ferocious beast,and with a single word I pointed
out this ferocious beast wasthe size of a capybara at best

(44:18):
and was the most harmless breedof dog.
So that's kind of how you do it.
It's like you have the detailsnot quite match the dialogue in
the setting.
That's at least how I'd goabout.
It Is, if you want someone whothinks they're doing the right
thing but they're not, you havethem confidently and you, as the
narrator, confidently describeit with details that are just
deeply upsetting.
Like if you're doing like ShauTucker's point of view, it would

(44:42):
be and I finally got it asolution I can get the money she
needs to live and then shewon't leave me and I'll advance
science by a million years andsave on pet care and child care.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Yeah, that's awful.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
But you see what I mean.
Right, it's about theconfidently stating things that
are horrible.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Hmm, I mean honestly, I said I wanted to do an
episode on noir fiction and Imean it is an interesting topic,
but I realized after readingthe definition of hard-boiled
versus the definition of noirbecause, like I say, hard-boiled
is basically noir but itactually has a moderately happy
ending.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
Are we turning into a Denny's Like?
Where are you possibly goingwith this?
Because I followed you ontothis noir train because you
promised me robots, and nowwe're here.
Where are you going?
What stopper are you gettingoff on, sir?

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Well, this all comes back to the story, the sci-fi
detective story.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
I thought you were about to come back to the
shotgun guy.
So where I'm going with this isthe camera has it in black and
white.
I'm trying to decide if Irelease it as a noir film where
I just voice over the guy.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
I do have the footage , that's true.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
In black and white, specifically probably.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
But no Like.
The idea for the story now isbasically that the detective
figures out that all thesepeople are missing and the
missing link is that they likedthis profile on the dating app
and then catfishes that profilein order to get a date with them

(46:26):
so that you can go and confrontthem.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
See, it's kind of funny because, like, noir is
such a vibe.
So, like you bring up datingapps and I'm like, is dating
apps noir?
But I'm looking at this list ofnoir anime and you know what's
sitting here, like six down,ghost in the shell.
Ghost in the shell is very noirin its style and themes,

(46:48):
especially like the movieversions, but absolutely has
digital dating apps well, yeah,sci-fi and noir are not mutually
exclusive.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
Actually, I was going to ask you I don't know how
well you remember the seriesAltered Carbon.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
So good.
Watched it last week.
You watched it last week, notwo weeks ago, when my mom was
visiting.
I'm like what's a good show tothrow in for me and my mother?
And we ended up doing For AllMankind, the Foundation and
Altered Carbon throwing for meand my mother and we ended up
doing for all mankind, thefoundation and ultracarbon okay,
uh, well, I mean that's, that'sgreat, because I was going to
ask you uh, I, I ultracarbon isnoir as heck yeah, I think.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
I think it shifts away from noir as you get into
the later seasons, where he'sactually fighting the systemic
corruption and he becomes agenuine hero.
But the first season for sure,oh yeah, he's a hard-boiled
detective who has self-loathingand is morally ambiguous.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
His butler is Edgar Allan Poe.
Dude could not be more noir ifhe tried Also for brilliant
writing choices, to switch outyour actor, oh yeah, switching

(48:06):
the stack to a different body.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Oh man, alter carbon was like sick.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
Just yeah, so good but yes, I see what you're
saying.
Like I feel like the episode'snot actually so much about noir,
is about sci-fi noir, because Ifeel like we both have more
grounding in that.

Speaker 2 (48:20):
Well, I mean I just the whole point of the
conversation.
It was just like, yeah, youmentioned wanting to do noir and
I was like, hey, yeah, thatsounds interesting, and then
realizing that I don't reallyknow what it is.
Well, I mean I do.
Now I've obviously done someresearch.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
Well, what's interesting is, at the end of
the day, genre is a checkboxthat your publisher or your
self-publisher clicks.
For example, I was having atalk with one of my professors
about the difference between YAnovels and new adult novels and
it's really about the difficultycurve.
And I had the same conversationlater with one of my mentors

(48:59):
about the same topic of.
It was a genre that was popularfor a while and just kind of
faded away.
But Canada's just getting itbecause we're just behind
America, and the idea is that ithas different themes.
It's about people who are justbecoming adults and entering the
world, where YA is aboutteenagers up and the new adult

(49:20):
is about.
Now that they've grown up,they've realized they haven't
learned anything.
But the reason I say that islike I'm looking at this anime
list for noir.
And yes things like Monster andliterally noir.
Yes, that is the name of theseries.
It fits the feeling.
The Big O is like a noirthriller about a Batman who has

(49:42):
a giant robot.
What the Big O is amazing.
It is an animated series.
That's a mecha series butframed like a noir.
So you're literally following ahard-boiled detective who, once
he finds the criminals, summonshis Gundam to punch them.
Okay, it is amazing.

(50:02):
Is that on Crunchyroll?
I wonder?
I hope so.
It is so good.
So, like oh man, it's not verymany episodes, but like the
poster's in black and white,it's 12 episodes and it's just
majestic.
That's it.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
It's just majestic.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
They're trying for a vibe so hard.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
Yeah, it doesn't look like it's on on Crunchyroll.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
But yeah, like, so we got like Cowboy Bebop, Darker
Than Black, ergo Proxy Ghost inthe Shell, golgo 13.
I'm like there is a lot ofsci-fi noir and I didn't realize
, until you brought this up, notonly how common that is, but
how good it is Like if I were towrite my next masterpiece.

(50:54):
Sci-fi noir is a sick genre forit.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
Well, okay, would you go noir, or would you go more
hard-boiled, where the endingisn't necessarily so bittersweet
?

Speaker 1 (51:07):
Depends what I'm trying to accomplish.
So if it's for the light novelcontest, for example, I can't go
hard-boiled.
Death Note tried that and whenthey killed one of the two
characters, it stopped beinginteresting.
Right, you can't go hard-boiledif you want to serialize it.
However, most of these wenthard-boiled because when you go

(51:29):
hard-boiled, you hurt peopleLike you do the most emotional
damage by giving it.
The hard-boiled ending, likeCowboy Bebop's ending was just
brutal for no reason, and that'swhat made it so good.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
That's more the noir ending right no Cowboy Bebop.
He just gets shot, collapses onthe stairs and says bang yeah,
see, hard-boiled would be, wouldbe him not having the
bittersweet ending.
Yeah, that's, that's what I'mgoing for, like so I think, the
bittersweet ending is reallygood for a standalone work.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
And the thing is, if you're committed to knowing
you're having that bittersweetending day one, even if you're
planning to do six books in amovie, but you know that's how
you're going to end it, itaffects the pacing and the tone
and makes it better.
So let's go back to Death Note,for example.
They knew from the firstchapter that Light was going to
get killed off with the DeathNote.

(52:31):
That's the only way that couldpossibly end.
That could possibly end, andthem splitting it over two
seasons lost some impact, but itstill had a strong ending, even
if it came later than it shouldhave.
Ghost of the Shell cheats,because they absolutely have
their main character die at theend to then just go to the cloud
.
Okay, they like keep doing thenoir ending for them repeatedly,

(52:54):
which is some shenanigans, butalso, you know so, to kind of
loop back around to darker thanblack felt pretty noir, I don't
know Because, like I said,hard-boiled no one is going to
call you out of your books,hard-boiled or noir.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
People often use both interchangeably.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
What they are going to call you out for is if you
somehow don't write itmonochromatic, like you have to
write your book in black andwhite to have the vibes.
I know that's weirdly specificand like Cowboy Bebop wasn't in
black and white, darker ThanBlack wasn't in black and white.
But like the light trick,contrast, like you literally
want to create mood lighting inyour work to carry those vibes.

(53:40):
It's one of those things wheretropes are overused, but they're
also narrative shorthand.
You describe people inpinstripe stroops with Tommy
guns and boom, you got thatenergy.
If you're going sci-fi, youcan't quite do that.
So you then have someonesmoking a cigarette in a brothel
, even if you're going cyberpunkwith it, because the only

(54:01):
difference between cyberpunk andnoir is the age of the
protagonist, like the bigdifference between punk and noir
is your protagonist in noir hasto have been around the bush
enough to know that it's morallyambiguous.
So it's like, even if they're20, they have to be a super
mature 20, where a punk isrebelling against society and

(54:21):
might not know.
Because, as we mentionedearlier, the whether or not
you're trying to make societalchange shifts how noir you are.
Like.
The fact that Batman doesn'tachieve anything at the start is
what makes him noir.
When he actually startsaccomplishing things, he becomes
a family man with a sensibleSUV.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
Joins the Justice League.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Also Speedgrapher.
Would you call that noir?

Speaker 2 (54:51):
Ooh.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
It feels like it wants to be.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
It definitely has that bittersweet ending and it
is very first person.
It's interesting because of thephotography theme.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
Because I feel like protagonist guy Saga I think it
was is a noir protagonist, butwhen the series isn't following
him it kind of slips out of noir, a bit Like Mr Swatengu is busy
being way too good of a villainfor that show, like he's not a
noir villain but he is Like he'smore a classic tragic Sephiroth

(55:26):
villain and then kind of pivotsat the end.
It's like the protagonist feelsnoir and the villain feels a
little too shonen.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Well, I mean, it is also a little bit interesting.
It is a little bit interesting.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
Like if he didn't have superpowers he'd be a great
noir villain, maybe Because hemade a difference.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
You say he's a noir protagonist but at the same time
he is a little bit more of thattraditional righteous hero,
like he gives off more vibes buthe doesn't really like he's not
an anti-hero.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
Like he's definitely in.
Like it's like he got thrown ina noir setting.
Like the city is a noir city.
Like the rich are literallygambling on superpowers in their
underground sex clubs.
Like it city is a noir city.
Like the rich are literallygambling on superpowers in their
underground sex clubs.
Like it's problematic.
But like yeah, he has a bit ofthat.
Life is in shades of grey, kindof nihilistic goes through an

(56:30):
arc like it wouldn't have beenhard to tilt Speed Graffer into
being noir.
It sits there on the cusp.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
I would say it's like directly.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
I think it's directly between noir and shounen, which
is the weirdest genre becauseshounen is just superhero comics
, but just straight up, marveland shounen are the same genre.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Yeah, they definitely are, yeah, they definitely are.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Weirdly enough, some parts of kagura buchi that come
up once in a while, like we weretalking about what feel more
like mafia-esque and it's likemafia and noir are similar not
quite, but kagura buchidefinitely has more noir energy
than some actual noir thingshave, but it's that one seems to

(57:17):
be pivoting to more classicshounen now that they're
starting to team up and numberyour villains like you do.

Speaker 2 (57:26):
Yeah, numbering the people they have to rescue and
who's going after them.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
They're just kind of doing the setup.
They're doing the Kenshin which, to be fair, kenshin was great.
You know, they're doing theKenshin which, to be fair,
kenshin was great.
So you know what so did youever see the Samurai X movie
they did where it was just likehis sad backstory as a movie.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
I don't know that I ever watched the movie.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
Because his sad backstory.
I don't know if I'd callKenshin noir, but like,
definitely he was in anihilistic world where everyone
was against him.
But I think the thing is thenoir character doesn't usually
kill people, except as a lastresort, usually like they're
trying to.
It's like part of it's almostlike you're trying to be lawful,

(58:12):
good from your perspective,even if you're not.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
I don't know, have you ever seen dirty Harry Touche
?
I mean so technically, uh,neo-noir apparently only applies
to film.
Uh, and it's only like anythingmade in the noir style post,
like 1960 or something like that.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
If you want to be one of those guys, sure I was just
saying I was reading.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
I was doing a lot of reading on this because it
became your life.
Well, it might be, I don't know.
Coming back to the story thatI'm trying to write, though, my
number one problem I'm havingwith the story as it is is one
of the people commented on myother short story that I'm going

(58:59):
to submit to the magazine, andthey said that one of my opening
paragraph about the mirror wasbeing a screen that projects
outfits onto the reflection.
They said that was a good wayto make sure that the readers

(59:20):
know it's speculative sci-fi andfiction right at the get-go.
I'm like hmm, how do I?
Because the sci-fi is theperson kidnapping people and
turning them into robots.
But if that's the twist, how doyou even know that it's sci-fi
until you get there?

Speaker 1 (59:38):
Oh.
So if you want it to be sci-fi,so here's what Cowboy Bebop did
.
So you got two characters in ametal room that looks kind of
like a ship.
You got one dude with a robotarm smoking a cigarette.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
Yeah, that's it.
You want something to be sci-fi.
Nor you have a dude with arobot arm smoking a cigarette.
Well, another character lamentsthat it's just another day in
paradise, typically by sayingliterally, it's another day in
paradise and then cut to somepoor children dying on the
street or something.
But yeah like sometimes it canliterally just be the
smoke-filled room, theinexplicable blips in the

(01:00:17):
background.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Include the robot arm to make sure people know it's
sci-fi.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
Well, a lot of it's setting right, like let's take
Ghost in the Shell, for examplePretty early on we have people
in their sci-fi room and thentheir fingers split open to a
bunch of little typey fingers.
And then that scene instantlyyou know exactly what this piece
is going to be, because theirfingers split open and started

(01:00:43):
typing on a keyboard, which isdeeply upsetting but also kind
of functional.
Yeah Well, and like the thingis a lot of it opens with the
monologue too.
And the thing is a lot of.
It opens with the monologue too.
So, for example, here's theparagraph that describes the

(01:01:07):
Samurai Jack episode I wastalking about, about the robot
X-49.
The episode opens deep inanother nondescript city.
Rain falls over the branches,hovels and lampposts.
An old-fashioned-looking carwith a red-eyed robot driver
sits in the side of the street.
He slips the CD into his radioand techno trumpets starts to
steal the air, which seems toslow to a car.
Lulu sweet thing, he says,following by why he hates the
rain, how it makes himsentimental.

(01:01:30):
If that didn't immediately gotone function location,
literally listening to jazzmusic, but techno in an
old-fashioned car, while being arobot, complaining about the
rain because it makes him thinkabout how it makes him
sentimental.
And then the next scene you seeis the robot he talks about.

(01:01:57):
Initially, robots were wobbly,uncertificated, but then we have
robot assassins in coats, hatsand wingtips.
Their job was to seek outdissidents and eliminate them.
He was different.
He was built by an eccentricengineer to learn, understand
and, worst, feel Right.
And that's just like that oneepisode of Samurai Jack.

(01:02:17):
Sometimes, samurai Jack justfeels like being better than it
deserves to be.
There's some episodes whereyou're like, oh, this is a skip
and a miss.
And there's other ones whereyou're like, oh, we're just
going to play with the dynamiclighting in this scene and go
hard on it for no reason.

(01:02:42):
Well, I think I've gotteneverything that I wanted to know
out of you as it relates tohard-boiled and noir fiction.
Well, yeah, I had to make sureto use up our entire hour that I
was trying to prevent.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
Do we still have time for a random question?

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
Absolutely, we do which.
At some point I'll make youlook through our comments and
find random questions, but thattime is not today.
So here is our random questionwhich cartoon character would
you?

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
like to be best friends with.
Oh, which cartoon characterwould I like to be best friends
with?

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
Man, I'm so torn on this one Oof.
So like Robin Williams' genieis just the rigged answer, right
, like not only is it RobinWilliams, it's also a literal
genie.
Like my brain also went likeCosmo from Fairly Oddparents
would be hilarious.
But now I'm just trying to likeit's an exploitive friendship
and I'm not okay with that.
I need a best friend on mylevel.

(01:03:44):
Yeah, that's a good point.
Can I just say Pikachu?

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
Is that, like fair game here, best friends with
Pikachu?
That still seems like it mightbe exploitive A little bit.
A little bit.
I'll let you answer while I tryand find a less exploitive
cartoon best friend that I wouldjust get along well with.
Uh, well see, I think I wouldlike to be uh like jimmy

(01:04:08):
neutron's friend I mean, it'svery dangerous.
That seems exploitive.
His inventions backfire andstuff.
But no, I mean, he's huge.
I would actually really enjoyuh, being his friend, helping
him test out these things, likeI would enjoy being Carl in his
universe.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
First off, that makes sense.
Second off, though, I think youpicked the wrong genius Because
it's like Jimmy's kind ofinsufferable Right.
He's just like you might beright.
I'm going Dexter, becauseDexter knows he has other flaws
and is, quite frankly,alarmingly similar to some of my
friends.
So I can get that, but I alsokind of want like a ride or die

(01:04:45):
cartoon character, best friendand I'm like, hmm, I'm still not
sold.
You know, I think I nailed it.
It took me a while, donatello.

Speaker 2 (01:04:54):
Donatello Ooh Right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
Yeah, donatello, donatello Right.
Like for characters not only isDonatello a seven foot tall
ninja turtle, but he'd alsoactually play Gundam Breaker
with me 100%.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
Yeah, okay, but would he be any good at it?
He only has like three fingerson his hands.

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
You think he doesn't have like some crazy pressure
compensating, compensating toolcontroller he built for this.

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
He's got this.
That's a good point.

Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
He's got this.
Not only that, but he's justthe most chillest of turtles.
I'm sorry, Party Dude is notthe chillest turtle.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
No, definitely not.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
So yes, I'm going Donatello the Ninja Turtle,
because I think that'd be a goodmutual friendship, like I can
go out in daylight and he's aninja.
Like it balanced nicely.
You are right that JimmyNeutron is a bit insufferable,
but I'm you can commit justbecause I find someone
insufferable, Because, remember,I'd be the Jimmy in this

(01:05:55):
situation, right, Like I wouldbe the one who was insufferable,
not the other way around.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
Like really you should have said.

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
Jimmy and I should have said Carl and all balance
would be set.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
but that would have been pretty funny.
Now I'm going to lock it in,jimmy Neutron.

Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
Alright, and with that, that is this week's
episode, I don't know Supportsome local literary magazines.
Go buy a copy of FusionFragment, like I mean, like you
can afford it.
You can afford it you know howyou already trade yourself to
your pumpkin spice latte.
Go buy a literary magazine withyour money.
That would be your secondpumpkin spice latte.
You can do this.

(01:06:33):
I believe in all of you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
I kept wanting to say Fusion Frenzy, but I knew that
was not the second F, so IFusion Fragments, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:42):
So go check them out.
They're awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
Not sponsored.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
Not sponsored, but like you can just download free
issues or buy a nice paperbackone, so like it's one of those
things where it's like it'sweird to advertise free services
to people, because it's likeyou have to push energy to sell
people on things they get like Iworked enough time in student
service to be like but seriously, you should go use your free
gym and they're like I don'tknow.

(01:07:07):
I'm like it's free, why wouldyou not?
But it's like you almost haveto like upsell, be like yo check
out this cool magazine.
I sure probably shouldn't tellyou this, but they're open for
submissions.
But don't tell anyone, rightlike just between you and me and
the internet.
Just check it out.
Oh, what a random episode.

(01:07:30):
Like we kind of touched on noir.
Like noir.
Sci-fi would probably be theepisode title.
Nor Nor sci-fied and shotgunninjas.
How is that your?

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
real life.

Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
Like it's just insane .
Your real life was the mostwacky thing we talked about.
Batman came up multiple timesand your real life is the most
wacky thing that actuallyhappened.
How are you alive?
How are you a living person?
I don't get it sometimes.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
Also, I should probably stop recording.

Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
Bye.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
Bye.