Episode 87: Spoiler Warnings and Manga Masterpieces

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello Internet and welcome to Richard and Carl
present Deep Space and Dragons,the number one most popular
talked about podcast at my workby me.
I'm Richard.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
I'm Carl.
I'm getting frustrated bylooking up Viz Media.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
I kind of enjoy that just being your statement.
Not just like I'm Carl, I'mfrustrated looking up Viz Media
statement not just like I'm carl, I'm frustrated looking at this
media.
So do you want to go into theworld of carl?
Or is it just going to get uscanceled by viz, a company I
would enjoy working for someday?

Speaker 2 (00:32):
uh, oh, wow, sorry, I I'm, I'm definitely getting
distracted.
Uh, there's a number one issueof Dragon Ball graded at 9.8,
worth.
Well, it's selling for $1,000,because it's the first printing.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
That almost feels undercut, Like that almost feels
undervalued to me, Anyways.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
but yeah, this is Deep Space and Dragons, where we
talk about whatever the heck wewant.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Occasionally Dragon Ball, which, honestly, you know,
we didn't think Dragon Ball.
We came up with the name DeepSpace and Dragons, but we are
absolutely describing DragonBall GT, which sounds about
right for the quality of ourpodcast.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
How many Deep Space Dragons were there, though?

Speaker 1 (01:23):
The premise was to go through deep space to find
dragons.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
Were they actually searching for the dragons, or
were they just searching for thedragon balls?

Speaker 1 (01:32):
It would have been so much better if, instead of the
black star balls, the brokendragon balls got scattered into
the galaxy and they fight thecool ghost dragons in each spot.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Aha, that would have been pretty cool.
But before we get intohypothetical Dragon Ball GT
storylines, what's new with you,Richard?

Speaker 1 (01:49):
I don't know, my life's fine, but hypothetical
Dragon Ball GT storylines arepretty appealing.
So many things are new with me.
I've been working and writingand went to a wedding this
weekend between Redacted andRedacted Off the record on this

(02:12):
public podcast.
The Princess Bride may havebeen used in place of the Bible.
The Cake Knife may have been alightsaber.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Wow, that sounds like a very nerdy, excellent wedding
, the thing is, it was stealthnerdy wedding.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
so, like the thing is , it was like stealth nerdy,
like you had to pay attention tofind the details, like dresses
and suits and fanciness everyonehad on lock but like right if
your eyes were sharp you'd belike okay, these are these table
ornaments.
Are they d20s?
Are they the dodecahedron frombalder's gate 3, or did they
just happen to be fun shapes?
Oh, these made of book pages.

(02:47):
What book are these made out of?
Most people would assumesomething classy.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
So like also open bar , a tic-tac station, buffet
style food.
So it's like, say, a chicken orfish, why not have chicken and
fish on top of your prime rib?

Speaker 2 (03:07):
And they sent me home with a garbage bag of takeout
containers worth of leftovers.
Ah, the life of the brokestudent.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
I mean when they're like we have all this food, what
can we do with it?
No-transcript.
I will happily take whateveryou think is an appropriate
amount of food for two brokestudents to consume.

(03:33):
So my fridge is fully stacked.
So, between the wedding andsuiting up and doing a public
reading and just working.
Getting so much done plus,every law school requires like
three applications and essaysand things.

(03:55):
I'm like I've went from I waswhelmed last week and now I'm
approaching the overwhelmed,like.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
I'm afloat.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
I'm going.
That's a lot and I'm gonna likeneed this weekend to recover as
I drink my miscellaneous bluebeverage right now and the
miscellaneous well, what's funny, too, is it's reading week, so
the campus isn't busy, exceptthey're holding a few big events
.
So we get to do a little pop-upbooth and bribe people with pins

(04:27):
and I love bribing people withpins To all listeners out there.
If you happen to have a spare$40 an hour for someone to hand
out pins, happy to.
Yes, that is the radar bill forhanding out pins.
I stand by it.
Gotta know what you're worth.
I'm really good at handing outpins, I'm so excited about it.

(04:48):
So that's what's new with me.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
What's new in the Carl verse.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Well, okay, so um and note you only have four minutes
to talk about movies.
You can talk about Carl as muchas you want, but only four
minutes to go over individualmovies.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Well, okay, I mean, what's new with me is a
continuing saga of watchinghorror movies.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
It is, but you only get three minutes to describe
this horror movie.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
No, okay, see, the thing is that Terrifier 3 is in
theaters and it's a horror movie.
I don't know if it's touted tobe as disgusting as the second
one.
Uh, but we hadn't seen thefirst one or the second one, so
I made a mistake.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
I think I've limited you to far too little time for
what's probably an insaneconcept for a movie that's not
that insane.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Um the.
The gist of the first movie, atthe very least, is uh, insane
clown murders everyone he comesacross.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Okay, that's like I don't know, 5% of horror movies.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, I mean it seems fairly generic and a 2024
presidential campaign.
It seems fairly generic.
It apart is uh the stellarpractical effects uh versus its
uh indie film budget okay sothey put care into.

(06:14):
It is what I'm hearing yeah, Imean, it's like the, the first
movie like that.
Like I said, I described theentire movie insane clown
murders everyone he comes across, except for the one person who
survives to the end, which isnot a spoiler, because that's
how the show opens.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
I enjoyed Insane Tire kills everyone it comes across.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
That was a weird movie, but it's it's.
The reason I bring it up isbecause Terrifier 2 was
apparently so disgusting thatpeople passed out and had to

(06:58):
call ambulances in the theaterand people had to leave the
theater to go throw up in thebathroom.
So I don't even think.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
I could go near that building.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, definitely, don't get me wrong.
I've been desensitized bywatching horror movies across
the eras, like watching horrormovies from everything from 1920
to like modern day.
Like I've seen a lot of horrormovies lately.
How's your psyche coming?
up there champ well, like I say,you become desensitized to it.

(07:34):
Uh, it's to some extent, um,and I would definitely say, uh,
that uh.
Terrifier 2 in particular, isnot for the faint of heart
because it is extremely gory,but I don't know if I'd actually
say it was disgusting.
What I consider disgusting iswhen people start melting into

(07:57):
slime, like that's.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
Trigger warning.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
Melting people.
Yeah, yeah that you want togross gross me out, start
melting or just be the mangauzumaki ah, that was.
That was freaky, it really usedsomehow took advantage of being
2d to do more psychic damagewell, I see the most disgusting
part is when the person startedlike melting into a snail and

(08:24):
like kind of like the snailtransformation was gross.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
For those of you not watching Carl's Motion, because
this is a podcast, I have toassume he did like an arms
wiggles and then like a C, likethe YMCA, and then crumpled up
like a snail when he made thatnoise.
Well, I mean, I mean, besidesthat, I'll think you did it by
the way you hit your time frame.

(08:49):
Oh well, that's good, I'm proudof you.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
Cue the xbox gamer score achievement sound like
speed run, uh, but tldr though,uh, I didn't find it that
disgusting.
I'm probably desensitized, andmost people will probably,
because the practical effectsare just so much better than the
CGI, or at least poor CGI.

(09:14):
Artists don't get enough timeto fully work on what they're
doing, and so it often ends uplooking a little bit mediocre.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Well, the thing is too, a lot of times they just
use it when they don't need to.
And I'm sure people are doingthe same thing of generative AI,
where they're like oh, I'mgenerative, yeah, I write my
email.
I'm like the dude.
You just need to say, ok,thanks, you don't even need the
full word Thank you, you're justusing this tool because you
have it.

(09:53):
Yeah, we're actually in a worldright now where someone will
have an AI write their datingprofile, send their intro
message.
Someone else with their AIwritten dating profile will then
copy that message into their AIand send it back, and then
they're both still going toghost each other anyway because
people have no soft skills.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Ah, but like to.
To compare um the terrifier to,uh it, another freaky clowns or
sword horror movie.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
Well, specifically it part two, uh like we have a
script, we have like a plannedtopic, but my lord and this
could be next week's and shouldbe's the number of freaky fat
clown archetype characters we'veseen over our lives to just
like, just like if we did like atop, take freaky clowns.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
But on the topic of CGI, it, part two, had a huge
budget comparatively speaking toTerrifier 2.
And the GDP of Saskatoon a hugebudget with, comparatively
speaking to, uh, terrifier twoand the GDP of Saskatoon.
Yeah, Uh, but uh, Terrifier twois going to look better in five

(10:56):
years than it Part two because,like the, the clown's just not
that scary when it's soobviously CGI.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Oh yeah, that's why people weren't as afraid of
Trump as they should be.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
But looping back around to Uzumaki, ooh, that was
a good Okay, did it?
Uzumaki was distributed by Viz.
Did it actually run in ShonenJump?

Speaker 1 (11:23):
So Viz distributes a lot of anime, especially in the
2000s.
Like Viz Does, it actually runin Shonen Jump.
Viz distributes a lot of anime,especially in the 2000s.
Viz owns RWBY, for example.
Oh really, it was a recentpurchase from Rooster Teeth
after a whole WB something,something.
I'm not going to talk on thattoo much.
But RWBY fans are insatiable.
So whenever Viz puts out apress release, they just chant
where's RWBY?
To the point where Viz puts outa press release, they just

(11:45):
chant where's Ruby.
And to the point where Viz hadto just go on there and be like
we will tell you what we want totell you.
Sit down, sit down.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
So like Viz is more a distributor than anything.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
So they distribute a lot Like everything from
InuWasha to Naruto.
I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Well, yeah, see, as Viz is distributing,
distributing, it seems to bedistributing less and less like
they.
They have a lot of stuff, but,um, there seems to be more
independent, uh or smallerpublishing studios that are
distributing and localizinganime and manga that I've seen,
uh, but I think viz is the onlyone that has like a partnership

(12:23):
to create an actual app, becauseShueisha is just Viz as well.
Right, that's just the actualJapanese.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
Viz.
I think it's more like Viz andShueisha, I don't know.
I don't want to speak on thisand be wrong.
There's some layers there.
I feel like there's somecorporation and names and
alliances.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
I honestly don't know .
The Manga Plus app seems tohave exactly what's on the
Shonen Jump app.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
But I don't.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
Sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
Which I don't know what to tell you on that one.
But like, Uzumaki wasdefinitely not a Shonen Jump
series.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
Oh no, Shonen Jump doesn't really have much in the
way of horror.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
It does once in a while, though, and it'll catch
you off guard.
Chainsaw Man's the one thatmesses me up the most.
It's not in weeklyshow-and-jump, because it wasn't
allowed to be anymore, I think.
I'm assuming it seems right.
All right, so shall we pivotinto our topic.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
Which is series that have been completed.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
Well, it's manga endings in general.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
Okay, okay, okay.
So we're not specificallylooking at Shounen Jump or
Gizmedia.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
It'll just kind of devolve into that when we're
talking about manga endings.
So I'm going to start strongwith one of the most iconic
manga endings, because it didn'tend anything Dragon Ball Z's
manga, where he just trains arandom side character he
invented and then flies off toabandon his family.
I would say as far as manga isconcerned, a solid seven Like

(13:59):
this is going to be like a sevenstars out of ten, so it's kind
of be the baseline because it bethe baseline.
Because it didn't end anything,it didn't conclude anything,
it's just okay, we're done, butI can pick this up whenever I
want.
That's probably the most commonmanga ending I've seen, so I'm
going to put that at the top ofthe scale to go.

(14:20):
What is the worst one you'veseen recently, because a lot of
things have ended recently JJK,my Hero, bleach, 20 years ago
Even.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
Naruto ended 10 years ago and it stopped forever.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
It was a pretty satisfying conclusion.
I'm sure they could do a sequelof his kids or something, but I
think it was like the story arccame to such a natural
conclusion they were wise tojust call it there.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
But see, most of the dissatisfying endings are the
ones where the series gotcancelled prematurely, like
Durandururon was.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
it was so good so it had the dragon ball z ending
problem where, like itintroduced their main villains
and then wrapped them up and wasdone.
And I'm like, oh man, youdidn't you decide to end by
painting by the numbers?
And I'm like, you know, if mygot cancelled, no one is living
through the ending of thatseries.

(15:26):
I'm pulling full Evangelion andmy budget's out.
I'm not going to leave myselfopen to be revived later.
No, I'm just salting the fieldsand burning the forests.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
The Psych House.
That's another short one that Ireally really enjoyed.
Wait, psych House ended.
When did I miss that?
Yeah, yeah, I did.
Uh, she woke up her mom becauseher mom was in a coma because
of a psych uh, and then, uh,they just her and her mom went
to go live at the psych houseand they're like, yeah, that's
it so, oh no, you know what,actually you had a short run,

(16:02):
but a satisfying ending, thoughthat ghost paradox manga writer
thing oh yeah, see that one feltlike it was supposed to be that
short right, like I was finewith that ending.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
I'm like, oh man, I missed the ending of psychos.
I just missed, didn't read itone week because I was probably
asleep just got it.
I'm like, okay, it didn'treally grab me that strong.
Anyway, it wasn't like I'd bemore devastated if Super Psychic
Policeman Chozo just kind ofkicked the bucket.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
Well, yeah, I just I get sad about.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
That's another good series that ended well.
It lives.
My nemesis Me and Roboco.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
Oh, oh, ah yeah, the world's longest running fat joke
.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
It's probably not.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
Yeah, that's probably true Because it's winded See
Psychos.
It definitely.
It was a slice of life manga,so like it doesn't really grab
your attention in the same waythat other more action-packed
series do.
But it really felt to me likethere was some sort of dark lore

(17:20):
that they were starting tobuild up and then they were just
too slow and Shono Jump's justlike yeah, no, get out of here.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
No slow burners in our series.
They're like spring back tosomething that ended decently.
So Gon meets his dad at thetree.
He lost his man but achievedhis goal.
Kurapek has got close todeciding to go on his adventure,
Killia reunited with his family, and all the natural plot
threads of Hunter x Hunter ended.
I'm so happy they ended itresponsibly.

(17:48):
It didn't just make a Hunter xHunter ship who didn't about no
one we cared about.
That was nothing but explainingspecial powers for 200 chapters
.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
I thought we were doing the most serious that
actually ended and not makingfun of series that should have
ended it feels organic.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
Because why?
Why would you bring it back inthat state?
Was that the entire purpose ofevery Necromancer story ever
written?
To not do this?

Speaker 2 (18:20):
But actually.
So, speaking of another sliceof life manga that I actually
really, really enjoyed,cognition no, there was actually
two.
It was Aqua, and I don't knowwhy it's separated into Aqua and
Aria, but it's about a girl whogoes to Neo-Venice, which is on

(18:42):
Mars, because actual Venicesank into the ocean, and so she
goes to Neo-Venice to become agondolier into the ocean, um,
and so she goes to neo venice tobecome a gondolier, uh, and
then there's two plot lines, onewhich I didn't see coming, one
which I did, and the first plotline is her meeting all of the
um elemental spirits like undine, uh, salamander, who decided

(19:06):
these, by the way, like I'veseen those spirits in so much
media, yeah, yeah, specificallyit has to include salamander man
, who decided these, by the way,like I've seen those spirits in
so much media.
Yeah, yeah, specifically, it hasto include salamander and gnome
, not like ifrit, and and carbon, yeah, like all the tales games
do that one and I'm like whatculture had that just stolen
from them?

Speaker 1 (19:23):
someone must like, clearly some culture just got
its history stolen by JRPGs.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
So the Aqua and Aria.
Throughout this series she'sgoing around, she's meeting all
the different people and they'rebasically like their job in
society is somewhat related tothe element of their spirit Like
the air people, sylvia, they'relike the male people and they

(19:51):
fly around delivering mail, theundines go around to the water
and and the transport people, um.
So she ends up like goingaround and meeting basically all
the different like spirit clansand and seeing all them.
Uh, and then, um, there's asecond secret subplot of her
seeing all the seven wonders ofNeo-Venice and as it was going

(20:13):
through and it came to the end,it was like wow, I did not.
It actually had a through lineand it came to a nice conclusion
and ended up with her beinggrown up and teaching the next
generation.
And then it just ended and itwas very, very satisfying and
beautiful ending because Ididn't see it coming.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
but it actually all came together, despite being a
slice of life manga that couldjust go on indefinitely I do
enjoy when something hits a nicenatural conclusion, like then
there's things like full metalalchemist, where it's like okay,
you had this written on one ofthose conspiracy boards of Yard
and intricately wove this outdeliberately over years, like I

(20:54):
know it wasn't in the ending ofFull Metal Locust, but they're
like oh yeah, the exact centerof the circle is this guy's
chessboard.
He's been taunting you withthis whole series.
Chef's kiss.
Like he got them with the samescam.
And then Bleach, no one reallyknows what happened.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
I'm kind of waiting for the anime to stretch it out
a bit more.
Yeah, the sword within thesword.
Like did he just did he getgenjutsu'd by Aizen?
Is that actually what happened?

Speaker 1 (21:19):
So the thing is the anime is actually expanding all
this, and I will have an answerfor you when the anime finishes.
I'm kidding you not.
They also just kind of added ina fight with powered up Ichigo
and Bok just in there, Give Iryua boss battle.
It's great.
They're fixing it in post,which is wild.

(21:39):
I don't think I've ever seen ananime be better than the manga.
That's definitely an inverse ofhow the universe tends to flow.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
Well, see, I don't think we did it on on stream,
but you've talked to me abouthow uh there's evidence that
bleach was not like.
Nothing about bleach was was anass pull like that.
He actually had the whole storykind of planned out and where
he was going, and you can seethese through lines, but then
editorial interference uh causedthings to either be rushed or

(22:14):
or removed or well, it's likeit's weird.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
So he pulled a goku's an alien.
So the big thing is dragon ballfinishes and dragon ball's
either.
Like goku's an alien is aretcon, but a smooth retcon.
Bleach was going good untilthey pulled the Ichigo's a
Quincy.
There was no reason to add thattwist.
And then they're like oh, theSoul King is all four of the

(22:42):
things, so we needed him to beall four of the things.
I'm like that's a greatstrategy if the third one of the
things wasn't introduced inwhat felt like a filler arc
somehow in a manga, because noone cares about these
fullbringer things, because youdidn't bother to explain them
early enough to matter.
Like, actually, his two friends, this was their power all along
.
I'm like you know, had you donethat from the start, I wouldn't

(23:04):
hate you right now, yeah, Imean, and then Jojo's cheats.
Yeah, jojo's cheats well, it'slike it's really easy to end
your series.
Well, if you're just going tothen do a time skip and continue
fair enough even if they don'tend it well they're.
They're fine because they couldjust go to venice and put

(23:25):
people in heart, uh, heart, cutout shirts and have them murder
gangsters with bananas.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
Okay, so Golden Wind is part five.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yes, okay, so part one is Phantom Blood, right, Yep
, which actually probably hadthe strongest ending out of all
the parts.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
Actually probably had the strongest ending out of all
the parts.
Okay, so Phantom Blood is thatup to the point where Jojo gets
his head cut off by Dio and thenDio sinks into the ocean.
Yeah yeah, that was a prettysatisfying ending.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
But also I feel like he scripts the ending first.
I'm not saying he pre-scriptsevery season of Jojo's, I think
he legit starts at the endingknowing how it'll go forward and
then writes backwards.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
That would make sense .
It's a bizarre series, so youneed bizarre writing tactics.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
So Naruto was the greatest love story ever told,
until they decide to then sequelit with a movie.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
Sequel it with a movie.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
Well, Boruto as a movie wasn't the worst.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Because that was the intent right.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
He wrote a one shot to then do a movie, and then he
did his other two one shots andthen the franchise machine
absorbed it yeah, okay, okay andthen my hero, academia has a
super unsatisfying ending okay,but I mean just going stepping
back a minute because, uh, I Irecently re-read all of naruto

(24:53):
yes, this was the point of this,which I'm surprised we didn't
do a full naruto episode inretrospect, because you didn't
tell me you read on all of it.
You told me you re-read theending and in my brain that
meant you just re-read the last20 chapters for some reason, a
thing carl would do.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
No, no no, I read all 700.
700?
, 701?
Anyway, I reread all thechapters.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
And it's got nothing on Freerun.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
Well, I mean, if Freerun weren't ongoing, I feel
like it's actually going to take10 years to go through this
10-year quest in Freerun.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
Good, I love a nice slow pacing.
I say that completelyunironically, like no
legitimately I do.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
But rereading Naruto it really does feel like he was
approaching the levels of JRRtoken for world building.
He had at least six generationsof ninjas, each with their own
stories and battles, and all ofthese unique named characters

(26:06):
that all kind of wove their wayinto the story.
I feel like it was mostlyfairly organic, Except where did
Kaguya come from?
Like, what the heck's up withKaguya?
That was Well, yeah, obviouslyshe came from space.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Sorry, yeah, like the thing that bugs me about it is
it could have been fixed in avery easy way for Naruto, like,
say someone, gave me theassignment to do another Naruto
anime.
I would put her on some oldcave paintings, right, like I'd
throw her, like she should besculptures, right, if there's

(26:44):
like this original ninja goddessthat all ninjas descended from.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
Right.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
You would put that in the lore and you'd put it so
early that everyone forgetsabout it, like you'd have the
first day of class and beinglike and then the ninjas were
spawned from Kaguya, and you'dbe like, who turned into the
moon?
And you'd be like, uh-huh, sure, the moon, god.
But you see what I mean, right?

(27:09):
They?
Set up, madara they set uphashirama, they set up zetsus,
but they didn't set up kaguya atall yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
So it's like uh, obito pretended to be madara and
then ultimately beingmasterminded by madara the
actual Madara.
It's like, okay, that felt likethat was set up and it was like
the mastermind was actuallybeing manipulated and that was
pretty clever, but then themaster mastermind was being

(27:41):
manipulated by another master,master, mastermind.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
Which I was weirdly fine with if it was the plant
dude, like Zetsu, if it was theplant dude.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
Like Zetsu, If it was just Zetsu.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
So Zetsu was just being a creep the entire show,
right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah and like ifZetsu turned out to be like
Hashirama or something.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
Hmm.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
Like if Zetsu was like a named character, because
they always, like they, madeplant power such a big deal.
Basically, zetsu could havebeen the main bad just because
he was there.
The entire show.
Had they explained what thehell Zetsu was and if they'd
mentioned that Zetsu was likethe will of the Tentails, like

(28:26):
it's like, oh yeah, no, zetsu isliterally the ego of the
Tentails before it got splitapart, trying to reassemble
itself or something.
It wouldn't debug me as much.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yeah, but I mean aside from Kaguya, which then
also helped spawn Boruto.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yep, and like what's interesting, though.
So my Hero Academia suffered somuch from being inspired by
Naruto when it came to theendgame.
So my biggest problem I havewith the Naruto endgame is that
it had six really cool finalfights and it's like, okay, you

(29:08):
have, and most of those fightswere things the fans wanted to
see, without realizing theywanted to see them, which is how
you do the coolest things Likeoh, we put a Sazano around
Kurama to fight Obito's spaceDNA sword.
That should end the fight.
That's cool.
Oh now we're doing it withMadara, who's in Obito's super
mode.
But's the same super mode, buthe has shadow pulls and then

(29:31):
he's fighting Dittoba.
It's like okay, but like Obito,we cared about Madara.
We don't actually care about ohwhat's this?
Madara's fake eyes fell out andhe put back in his real eyes to
become super duper, madara yeah, we're still not actually
invested in Madara, not really.
And then, oh, actually, it'skage the tree, oh it's the

(29:53):
genjutsu, oh it's kaguya, ohit's naruto and sasuke.
I'm like, okay, you can stopthis.
Five final battles to go.
Also, it's so obvious what theyshould have done.
You know who should havestabbed ubito in the back and
stole the powers?
Who?
Sasuke Duh, the obvious finalboss of the show, who didn't

(30:17):
actually have a reason to redeemfrom his villain arc he went
into for no reason.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
Ah, yeah, I mean the ending could have still been the
same with them, like runningabove Chakra and having a
fistfight and blowing eachother's arms off.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
Right, but like, instead of a final battle with
Madara, who really we did nothave any reason to give a
solitary fuck about, we have theperson who, like you have
Sasuke and Naruto team upagainst Obito, take him down,
free the tail beast, and thenyou know like how Madara like
then reabsorbed the maul.
Sasuke should have reabsorbedthe maul, because he ends up

(30:50):
doing that anyway for the finalfight.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
Right.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
And then you just have your final fight there and
it's like, yeah, everyone whoneeds to be out of commission is
already out of commissionSakura's out, kakashi's out,
obito's out.
Have Madara get killed byzombie Hashirama and just all
the zombies turned off, so wecan stop dealing with these
goddamn zombies.
Sasuke puts everyone in theInfinite Tsukiyomi except Naruto
, and since everyone's asleep,they can just have their epic

(31:17):
one-on-one.
Yeah, done Easy, I fixed it.
It wasn't hard.
You just had to actually lineedit and cut some stuff Because,
like I said, he tried to haveevery cool idea.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
Well, I mean, yeah, and sometimes it's like
editorial interference, like wewere saying, with the ending of
Bleach.
That manga was just straightrushed to the end.
Why were the editors andpublishers so intent on ending
Bleach when it was one of theirtentpole series?

Speaker 1 (31:52):
Oh, he was fighting cancer, it was a whole thing.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
Oh, yeah, okay.
So what's interesting about?

Speaker 1 (31:58):
Bleach, though, so Bleach's final fight was much
worse.
We acknowledge this, naruto vs.
Sasuke is probably the bestfinal fight in a manga, probably
the best final fight in a manga.
But bleach is borutoing whereit has, like it's one bonus
chapter afterward and like it'sa little epilogue, it put its
characters in nicer positionsand then it's like oh yeah, our

(32:19):
boruto, we have a couple kidsrunning around, but really we're
following the main character.
Still I'm like, oh, you did adragon ball z where you're like,
oh, you went from cell games tobusaga.
I want more bleach.
I do not want more naruto,because bleach has a decency to
follow other characters.
It's its greatest weakness andit's great the strength.
Ichigo does not actually needto be in all of bleach.

(32:42):
Naruto needs to be in all ofnaruto.
Ichigo is actually in verylittle bleach at the end.
He only gets two fights in theThousand Year Blood War.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
Does that include the bonus one they threw him in
with Bok?

Speaker 1 (32:56):
No, now he gets three fights so far.
Technically, renji does more inthe Thousand Year Blood War
manga than Ichigo.
Technically, captain Hippiedoes more than Ichigo.
Technically, the overweightdude, who's Soifong's lieutenant
, I think, gets about as muchscreen time as Ichigo in the

(33:17):
actual action of Thousand YearBlood War.
But that's a good thing whenyou're trying to do actual
sequels, right, because Boruto'sproblem is it's only good when
it's starring Naruto yeah, ithasn't starred Naruto in a long
time either it hasn't been goodin a long time okay, actually a

(33:38):
little bit of a side tangent,nice, so I assume you have more
knowledge of like side sourcematerial and whatnot for Naruto.
But so chakra, fairly early on,is described as a combination of
your like physical energy andspiritual energy, or something

(34:01):
like that right, your body andmind meet in the middle to make
chakra, which, for the record,was supposed to be called ki,
but he called it chakra bymistake.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
Yeah, okay, um, which , for the record, was supposed
to be called ki, but he calledit chakra by mistake.
Yeah, okay.
So one of the things that kindof confused me about Naruto is
that they seal portions of theirchakra into people and that
seems to be equivalent to theirsoul yes but like you can run

(34:33):
out of like, are they literallyusing their soul to power.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
Their ninjutsus is that so the way I see it is your
soul, is your engine right andthat engine is generating the
chakra.
And if you run out of gasolineyou can have the engine start
cannibalizing itself.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
So it's like if you cut out in this weird analogy,
like, let's say, your soul is alithium battery, Uh-huh.
Lithium battery is generatingelectricity.
You can, in this case, cut outa chunk of your lithium battery
and shove it in somebody to thenhave that chunk of lithium keep
generating energy.
So when you seal your chakraand your soul in someone, your

(35:18):
soul is basically the batteryfor your chakra, and that's why,
if you overuse your chakra, youjust die.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
Okay, that makes sense.
I was just like I'm not sharing, that's canon, but that's vlad
canon, which is usually morewell thought out than original
canon well, yeah, because it'slike uh, firstly, um, I mean, I
guess ito tensei forcefullybrings back your soul, and

(35:47):
therefore your chakra, fromwherever it resides.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
I only have one problem with Ido Tensei and I'm
going to rant about it now.
You did this.
This is on you Conceptually theidea that you take a human body
and you disassemble it andreassemble it and superglue
someone's soul to it to bringthem back to life.
I'm fine with that.
The Ido Tensei's havingunlimited chakra makes no sense.
They should have exactly asmuch chakra as the dudes you

(36:13):
sacrificed to bring them back tolife.
And if that's how it worked,awesome.
Or because he had a giantchakra battery, how do you use
the tail beasts to power the itotensei like?
Use the tree thing as like anengine to run his ito tensei.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
I'd also be fine with it.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
But like oh, ito Tensei just gives you infinite
chakra and infinite resurrection.
I'm like, bringing back thebest people in history was
broken enough, guy.
They did not need to haveregenerative powers.
Also, you made it lame by doingthat.
It's like oh, I brought backVegeta and now he has infinite
ki, it's like.
But you already brought backVegeta.
What are you doing?

(36:51):
That's my rant.
It's like the first time theydo Ito Tensei.
They don't do the wholeinfinite chakra thing.
I'm also fine with themregenerating until they run out
of the chakra that the personthey sacrificed powered it, the
Fullmetal AlchemistPhilosopher's Stone Law, like
one of the best power systems.
You have X number of souls.
You can keep rebuilding thatbody until you run out of the

(37:14):
power supply, that is, thesesouls.
Boom, nailed it, run out ofpower.
Get more souls.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
Well, yeah, and Full Metal Alchemist.
If we're talking about endings,that's such a good ending.
I don't think anything's beenbetter.
I really loved when he wentthrough the gate and ended up in
World War II.
That was so good.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
You used my own bit against me.
I see, I see what you did there.
You know the worst part.
The worst part is that stillprobably rates like the top 20
anime endings, like the badFullmetal Alchemist ending is
still For some anime, because alot just like like end with
nothing.
Like the original run ofInuasha ended with them not

(37:53):
having completed the jewel.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
Hey, yeah, that's true.
And then they had to go andre-release, continue the series
like what?
Like 20 years later?

Speaker 1 (38:02):
Like five or ten, I think.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
Oh, I thought it was longer than that.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
No, because they're like instead of just inventing
an ending, they're just like allright, we'll just put it on
hold till we end it.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
Which is a long go.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
Inuasha was an interesting ending, actually.
So the main villain of Inuashaturned out to be the sacred
jewel itself, right, and thejewel's goal was it wanted to
trap Inuasha and Kagome insideand Naraku to fight for all
eternity, to act as a battery,oh, and a lot of yeah, okay.

(38:34):
It weirdly like lampshaded a lotof poor choices character-mates
, because the magic wish rockwas just screwing them over.
Right, and the only correctwish on the magic wish rock was
to end the magic wish rock tomake it blow itself up.
Huh, but the idea that itintentionally scattered itself
so it could absorb people'ssouls into it when they used it
as a power source, it wassiphoning their souls back to

(38:56):
then try and build itself.
Having a rock absorb a crap tonof demons to then trap
everything in a new jewel so itcould continue to exist was
actually a really interestingconcept.
Now, shishomaru, using hisinfinity plus One sword that
kills things so they can'tregenerate and keeps killing
them with some bullshit andrequired some additional reading

(39:17):
to figure out what it is.
I just read, but such is life.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
Yeah, I'm not dissatisfied with how inuasha
ended it is pretty funny, likethe, the actual ending for film
full metal alchemist was likeobviously much more poetic and
and fulfilling.
Uh, but it's pretty funny thatthe bad ending is is still so
highly rated.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
It's pretty good, like I'm gonna be real, I didn't
hate that ending at all.
Now, the the Soul Eater animehad a terrible ending and the
Soul Eater manga had a solidending.
Huh, it literally ends withthem defeating the main boss in
a cool battle on the moon, whichis great because Soul Eater had

(40:03):
that freaky moon the entiretime and they actually bother to
explain it at the end.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
I love when a background detail gets to be
important.
Speaking of the moon that makesme think of is it Record of a
Fallen Vampire with Strauss?

Speaker 1 (40:19):
Yeah, or as we've been calling it, the Angsty
Vampire.
Yeah, yeah, record usuallymakes it into our fake naming
for it.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah, record of the Angsty Vampire.
Yeah it was.
I mean it was surprisingly notangsty, but that was a pretty
satisfying conclusion too.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
It was and it wasn't.
It was like I really liked it,but it's also like I weirdly
watched them pivot their seriesin real time because it wasn't
that long of a series.
It's like, yeah, people withweapons fighting vampires and
that just came like a historydocumentary and everything just
kind of stopped fighting.
It's like no, this is just atragic backstory.

(41:01):
It's like most of it just cameto explaining the story, really
just switched into explainingwhat the hell was happening for
the vast majority of it.
It wanted to be a show and jumpthing at the start and just
gave up.
It's like nah, nah, we're justtelling this guy's life story.
You know what?
Had a great ending but aterrible second to last ending

(41:21):
Assassination Classroom.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
Ooh.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
It ended with the classroom stabbing him in the
heart.
So he wouldn't kill the worldand it was beautiful.
But I'll never not get mad thatthe final villains were
tentacle monsters and the classwho was just spent the year
learning specific how to fighttentacle monsters never fought
the tentacle monsters.
It's just like no, you've setup this final battle, your
entire show, and just let him1v1 it and then the other guy

(41:47):
just be there and I'm like, but,and then he 2v1 it and then the
other guy just be there and I'mlike, but, and then he 2v1'd it
and I'm like, but the wholething you learned how to do was
kill these things.
That was your specific skillset and I was so Not even mad,
I'm just like, oh man, you guysgot so close to nailing it and
then you wobbled a bit and fellover.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
An interesting choice for a series that has a
satisfying ending.
All you need is kill.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
I'm going to need a quick refresher on that, because
that title sounds familiar themovie with Tom Cruise Edge of
Tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
I think it is oh yeah .
I think the movie was prettyinteresting too, but the basic
premise is that the main herogains a time looping power.
Every time he dies it goes backto a specific yeah, I'm right
back on board.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
I'm here again, it seems right.
Remind me of the movie I gotback.
Oh, you know what?
I had a bonkers ending.
But I'll let you finish yourstory first.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
I just it was just like intriguing, intriguing love
story about how far they couldget through each loop and then
it turned out that the only wayfor them to end looping was for
one of them to die.
So this is like it was likethis deep, tragic, but um, it
was so good I love.
All you need is kill isactually slightly better than
edge of tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
But edge of tomorrow is a great adaptation of they
did well for something that younever think they adapt.
What's kind of funny is I kindof homage that in one of my
chapters of my second novelwhere a villain has a time
looping power and he justrealizes that he can't possibly
win and just stabs himself inthe face and they're like why
did he do?
And the next chapter opens withwhy did he stab himself in the
face?
Because he just got so tired ofdying Repeating this fight.

(43:35):
On an equally bonkers note,future diary.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
Oh yeah, because she, like, actually becomes God of
the world and uses her godpowers to resurrect the other.
You're going gonna have torefresh me on that.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
That is the gist of what happened, right though it's
like so she became god in thefirst loop to end up with the
guy, and then he becomes god inthe second loop.
To try and figure out like it's.
It's been a while since I readit, but I remember like this
ending, just breaking my brainat the time, and it might just

(44:12):
be because of my adolescentbrain.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
She becomes God in the first loop and uses her God
powers to replace herself in analternate timeline to help him
become God so that they canrecreate the world together.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
And it's just like and then he opts not to, if
memory serves, but like it wasjust a wild ride, because she
definitely crossed, like thatwas just a crazy series that I
wish I remembered with moreclarity, but maybe I just
repressed it.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
No, I mean they definitely.
He is sitting there at the endof time, all sad and alone, uh,
and then she uses her god powersto break into his eternal
loneliness.
I'm pretty sure something likethat bring him back, and and
then they, and then theyactually fall in love because
you know they're, they're tooattractive protagonists.

(45:07):
So law of attraction.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
Yep, different note.
You know what kind of nailed itand it's going to be a deep cut
.
Yu-Gi-Oh, you think Yu-Gi-Ohnailed it, the final Yu-Gi-Oh's

(45:30):
ending was Yu-Gi dueling thePharaoh at the gates of the
afterlife to prove that he wasqualified to move on to the next
stage of life by leaving thingsin the hand of his young
companion.
If you could tell me a betterway yugioh could end, I'd love
to hear it because, like whenyou look at the over quality of
yugioh and think about, like oh,you had a strong, resonant,
emotional, themed ending in theseries with the blue eyes, white
dragon plane, yeah, like thatwas a solid.

(45:51):
That would have been a solidending for like full metal,
alchemist or bleach or somethingright.
Like that's a solid ending.
Like naruto ending with aone-on-one duel to let sasuke
move on to the afterlife likethat's a strong ending.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
We're like yeah, I have to prove I'm strong enough
to my friend so he can rest inpeace.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
So if I don't fight him with my all, he doesn't get
to move on.
That's better than Yu-Gi-Ohdeserved.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
Considering its humble beginnings, let's play
Punch the Knife in the otherperson's mouth.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
No Deep Face.
And Dragons does not recommendplaying the game popularized in
the Yu-Gi-Oh manga of Punch theKnife in the Other Guy's Mouth.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
Or playing air hockey with a block of ice that has a
bomb in it and when it melts itexplodes.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
Or laser tag, just regular laser tag, but the vest
just kills you, which reallymakes you wonder why you didn't
just give people guns.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
Ah, good old King of Games arc.

Speaker 1 (46:56):
And then JJK can, just so it did, like the Dragon
Ball Z ending of we'll have aprotagonist, chill in a room and
be like we can continue thiswith JJK Shippuden at any time
and I'm like I kind of want youto continue this with JJK
Shippuden at any time and I'mlike I kind of want you to
continue it with JJK Shippudenbecause your ending was
extremely unsatisfying.
But I kind of like some of yourcharacters and you forgot to be

(47:17):
whimsical until the very endand I like you better when
you're whimsical.
It's like the only chapter thatI'd enjoyed in the last 50
chapters of it was the lastthree I'd enjoyed in the last 50
chapters of it was the lastthree.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
It's kind of funny that JJK has kind of the
opposite problem of Yu-Gi-Oh,where it started off super,
super strong.
It was such an interesting andfairly unique concept.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
No, it wasn't.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
It was interesting, though it was definitely a
strong starting point.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
So, JJK, I just like same thing I was giving about my
Naruto rant and my HeroAcademia rant.
Its final battle could haveended five parts ago.
Like we knew from the beginning, the final battle was going to
be Yuji using his domainextension to punch the Tsukuna
out of Megumi Right using hisdomain extension to punch the
Tsukuna out of.
Megumi.
So why do we have Rope Guyjumping in to fight and Lawyer

(48:14):
Guy and Yuta the character thatthe writer likes more than the
protagonist, and then Yutacoming back?

Speaker 2 (48:23):
again.
Well, you see, naruto, it was agreat ninja war.
Everybody does it.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
Well, the great ninja war wasn't my problem, I had
about Naruto, even though Irefer to a great ninja war.
Everybody does it.
Well, the great ninja warwasn't my problem.
I had about Naruto even thoughI refer to the great ninja war,
bringing back the zombies andhaving people have weird
matchups.
I didn't like that.
The zombies were immortal.
I kind of love Kakashi justbeating up Zabuza and seeing who
the other seven swordsmen were.
Or the zombie Chichuriki'sjumping Naruto.
Or zombie Itachi saying sayingto heck, with this, I'm gonna

(48:50):
hack my zombie body to getvengeance on kabuto.
Those are fun.
Plot arcs, right, like oh,atachi and pain hanging out,
that's fun.
Oh, let's watch neji punch hisgrandparents.
Like that's a fun conceptbecause you're gonna do the dead
villains come back arc.
That's fun if you have theminteract in weird ways.
And they brought back a lot oflike lore characters that never

(49:11):
got screen time like hey, lookat all these different bloodline
elements we talked about myproblem was that we got to the
obito final fight.
That was obito, then super obito, then the tail beasts, then
zombie madara, then true madara,then obito and moderate versus
madara, then zetsu, then kaguya.

(49:33):
There's an infinite tsukiyomiin there somewhere.
It's like stop it, just stop it, stop it, stop.
Like it'd be like if goku, whenhe went to namik, there was no
rest between every fight onnamik.
They all just happened at oncein the same hour.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Well, and like you say with my Hero Academia, it's
just because Naruto's greatninja war.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
They did it twice with the same villains and
heroes.
They had a great ninja war,which they called the Liberation
War, and then all the villainsgot away somehow, and then they
had another one.
They just straight up did ittwice.
I wanted to flip a table.

Speaker 2 (50:12):
Naruto did it very.
Naruto did it very tastefullywith how they resurrected their
characters and had interestingmatchups right up until the
actual Naruto and Sasuke.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
Sasuke and Itachi versus Kabuto was sick Because
it's like, oh cool, Sasuke getsone last team up with his
brother he murdered.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
But JJK and my Hero particularly in standouts, the
biggest examples of a seriesthat copied the Great Ninja War
without understanding whatactually made it cool.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
Yeah, so like JJK wasn't a long enough show to get
away with it.
Copied the great ninja warwithout understanding what
actually made it cool.
Yeah, so like jjk wasn't a longenough show to get away with it
.
So when they're like, let's dothese calling games, they
actually have enoughparticipants for us to know who
is in these calling games narutoeven the characters we've never
seen before.
Like the other other sixSwordsmen of the Mist.
We knew about them.

(51:09):
Like the Gold and SilverBrothers and their legendary
tools were mentioned by someside character somewhere.
We knew Gaara had an abusivedad who beat people with gold
dust.
So, like the Ninja Warintroduced a bunch of
quote-unquote new characters,but we'd seen them.
Like we knew there was a mummyguy with disintegrate lasers.

(51:30):
We don't remember why we knewthere was one, but we knew about
them.
And that's just the benefit ofa long running show is you can
do that.
As you're saying, naruto hadTolkien-esque world building.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Yeah, like I say, he had at least six generations of
ninjas planned out, and I feellike there's a huge gap between
Kage, the Sage of the Six Paths,and Hashirama.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
But oh yeah, they just had a Warring States era
that they didn't bother fleshingout.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
But as soon as they get out of the Warring States
era and into the Kage villageera, it's like that.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
I would say he had four generations, I'll say four.
He had the first four.
Yeah, he had written up inwriting who the first kage of
each village was yeah, okay, thesecond one, the third one and
most were getting to theirfourth one, naturally, naruto
kind of went to their fifthbecause their fourth one died
young and then they went back tothe third, then they went to

(52:29):
the fifth, but like Gaara wasthe fifth Kazekage, so like they
got to their fifth generationwith everyone having parents and
children and village expansionsand things Pretty well mapped
out, like when they did the pullof the spiral in the back of it
is for the Uzumaki clan, like,oh, that doesn't feel like an

(52:49):
ass pull.
They're called the Spiral Clanand you've been wearing spirals
this whole time on your back.
I'll let you have this that'sjust tracks.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
Uzumaki speaking of, had a pretty good ending.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
I mean, I couldn't end it.
I know the final answer.
I feel like I just walked up toyou and put a cigarette in your
eye, like there is no reasonfor me to go there, I feel so
bad, because it's like I'mwatching it on Crunchyroll and
I'm like, hey, you should watchthis because it's actually super

(53:24):
interesting.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
I've done that to you a few times it's such an
interesting concept that he's,like this professional
negotiator, has to negotiatewith a being of basically
limitless power right like um uh, but then they just like oh

(53:46):
well, we're talking time, lord,baby, oh man.
So while we're talking, TimeLord, baby oh man.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
So, while we're talking on Ninja Wars, remember
how all of Mashal was good untilthey had a Ninja War, and then
it became painfully aware thatnone of us cared about any of
the characters who weren't namedMashal.
So now I said in Bleach, theymanaged to do a pretty good job
with their for having 26 namedcharacters.
They managed to do a prettygood job with their for having
26 named characters.

(54:13):
I'm like, okay, most captains,I know enough about that.
I'll watch ninja bitch fightrobocop.
Sure I at least I know that shejust is upset that uahara stole
her wife.
Like I can like get behind hermotives.
Right, we're like kampachi.
We like kampachi in thishousehold.
Let's watch Kampachi fightBraindude.
Sure Mashal's problem was Ididn't actually learn a single

(54:34):
character's name and I know my13 squad captains and
lieutenants and the 10 espadaand I even know some of the
fracones.
Like I'm pretty good at theseknowing characters.
I'm like, no, I did not grabanyone's name in mashall.
How dare you make me followcharacters that aren't mashall?
And then we got back to thegags where it's like, oh, I'm

(54:54):
just going to swim the islandout of the way of the attack.
I'm like mashall, if you didn'ttry ninja war in the middle,
you might have been a good mangauh, I mean it was a relatively
satisfying ending.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
It just had a crappy ninja war in the middle, again
copying Naruto because it wascool, but it didn't know what it
was copying.
That made it good.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
Right and I'm mildly concerned.
The ninja war was like themcopying Bleach, in a sense, like
, okay, we got these captainsand these Espadas, we'll have
everyone but our main charactersfight.
Also, while scrolling throughthe list of Viz Media, while
looking at mangas, I ran toMidnight Secretary and giggled
to myself no further questions.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
I just thought it was funny.
It was here.
That is funny.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
But yeah, and then, completely unrelated, the Neon
Genesis Evangelion manga isactually the best version of
that story and they made theending make sense Because all
they did was like, okay, theyhad the ending of the show where
they ran a budget and then theyended it with a movie that
traumatized me and the manga'slike, yeah, no, we're just going
to actually show it all andadded just a bit more exposition

(56:07):
.
That was needed for this tomake any sense, because it was
close to making sense before.
Hmm and yeah, and then OnePunch man is just going so
slowly that, like it's kind ofat the point with me.
So there's mangas that startedbefore we were friends and I'm

(56:31):
just like, okay, you're going soslowly that I don't even think
I'm invested in you anymore,like I gave this rant a while
back of One Punch man.
It's like entering the otherhero society arc and I'm like
why are you even bothering?
Like we'll all be dead beforethis goes anywhere uh.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
Well, the thing that annoys me about uh, one Punch
man, uh, is it's like they'reliterally right in the middle of
a fight between the Speed ofSound.
Sonic, flashy, flash and Blastare all fighting the empty void
Right and it's like, okay, thisis super cool.

(57:05):
And Blast shows up, and thenit's like, oh yeah, we're going
to start following the martialartist guy that you don't care
about yet I had forgotten aboutthe ninjas and blasting
completely.
That's how slow it goes oh yeah,well, just, I mean they just
recently I think they recentlyreleased the new chapter where
he where the martial artist istoo powerful for the power suit,
which is a funny gag, butreally annoying that they just

(57:30):
stopped for a gag in the middleof this, of this battle, like,
and then they need to go toanother battle or something like
interesting, and they're notfollowing Saitama, like where is
he?
I don't know, blast just lefthim somewhere.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
Well, it's really funny too is for one punch man.
If one punch man was a weeklyseries, almost all of our
complaints about it go away.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
Well, yeah, but the flip side of that and we talked
about how content creators haveit rough trying to actually
create new content every week-oh, I can relate as a person
working on my third book.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
You know how little story you can actually fit in a
book.
Like I'm completely serious,I'm like yeah, no, like a
100,000 word novel, you canreally only tell like 24
episodes worth of crap in there.
Like for me to write One PieceI'd have to actually write like
30 books, and then I would needsomeone to care enough about
those 30 books that I keptreleasing them.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
Ah, yeah, Like it's the wheel of time.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
And then the people who actually read all 30 books
are like dedicated fans.
That would jump on a landminefor you, but are the minority,
so while it's like thumbingthrough a random viz catalog.
It's funny because pokemonspecial it's like I read the.
It's like they do a pokemonspecial manga that goes parallel
for each game and they arevastly varying qualities.

(58:54):
But one thing I'll alwaysremember is in the final pokemon
special showdown with redversus blue, they do the exact
maneuver.
Sasuke pulls against itachi bysending out the heat in the air
to make the thundercloud and I'mlike did did he swipe this for
Pokemon or did Pokemon swipethis from him?
I don't know, I didn't look atthe timelines.
I think he swiped it fromPokemon.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
Hmm, naruto is 25 years old, so I think he swiped
it from Pokemon.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
And it's just such a weird concept to come up
accidentally and setting up abunch of fires to create an
updraft, to create athundercloud, to hit them up
with Thunderbolt.
Just weirdly specific right.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
See, the reason I say Naruto took it from Pokemon is
because 25 years ago, that's1999, that would be when Naruto
started.
I'm pretty sure Pokemon startedearlier, like early 90s.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
Yeah, I just don't know when the Pokemon Special
manga came out, because thatwould require effort to find
that information, probably quitea while.
Oh, june 2009 is when it gotreleased over here.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
I don't know, but continuing to trex along this
list of spoiling as much as wecan for people.
We didn't even put a spoilertag.
Hopefully the name of theepisode will be like.
I'll probably call it spoilertag or something.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
Hashtag spoilers.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
I also enjoyed going through this viz list and just
hitting the non-show and jumpthings catch me the most off
guard, like oh Record of afallen vampire Cause I did not
read these series legitimatelyat any point, like I'm like oh
people actually brought theseout.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
I guess I had good taste retroactively,
retroactively, oh, rion andKenshin.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
Well, if it's good first ending, then sad backst,
sad backstory than mid-secondending.
Mid, like he fought the fourmartial artists and then he
fought his love interest'syounger brother, I guess, and
then hit him with the SonicShe-She thing and it's like,
yeah, okay, sure, I can't thinkof a better description than mid

(01:01:07):
.
Did you ever?

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
read.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
Samurai 8, the Tale of Hachimaru the Naruto author's
attempt to make a sciencefiction series.
I did not.
It is really interesting and Icannot believe they canceled the
Naruto guy and told him to getback to work on Naruto and
didn't give it like the factthat got his series.
It's like you're not going to,you're only going to give him

(01:01:29):
what it went eight volumes, Ithink, not even.
Oh no, it only went fivevolumes and I'm like you're only
going to give him five volumesto let him cook.
Are you kidding me right now?
It did not feel like it hit anatural ending either and I'm
just like, wow, you guys suck.
He gave you billions with a, b.

(01:01:51):
I could be wrong.
Moments can come at me at thisone.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
You know what else starts with a, b Black Cat.

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
There's only one thing I liked about the Black
Cat ending oh, that he blew uphis Ori Calcum gun, shooting him
so hard.
Like it's like okay, like Blackhad a cool idea, isn't it?
It had weird ideas in it.
There's a certain likegenericness.
I see a lot of anime had inthat time period where it's like

(01:02:22):
, okay, you have the villainorganization, the morally great
good guy organization, the rogueagent who was a member of them,
who went on their own.
And like they were the number,like there was a proto-Espada
right, Like he was number 13 oftheir Espada, who were fighting
wizards for some reason, whodrank wizard potions to get
weirdly specific superpowers.

(01:02:43):
So he stopped being an assassin, started using an invisible
sword, but then the nanomachinesthat made him young powered up
the aura calcum gun to firelaser shots and like there's
just a certain like that'sinternal logic of black cat
wasn't that good, it was someanime bullshit I freely admit
this, uh, but sven with hisfreaking future sight powers in

(01:03:05):
his briefcase like black cat wascool, but then the author went
off to just write smut.
He just gave up.
Just write smut.
He just gave up and write smutnow.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
Oh, well, I mean sex sells.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
I guess he did to love rue, I think it was okay
and then after that he did likeishiaki triangle the least.
I'll never not be mad at thatseries where the premise was
solved in the first chapterbecause I read the first chapter
before realizing it was justsmut where it's like two people
are into each other but one gotthe gender flipped, but they're

(01:03:35):
still into each other.
I'm like you don't have aconflict, the conflict is
internalized homophobia.
I guess that's your actualconflict for your show Okay,
japan, get woke.
Conflict for your show Okay,japan, get woke.
Note if anyone has stoppedlistening to our podcast because
I'm like yeah, there isn't aproblem in the show, it's 2024.
Get your life in order.

(01:03:56):
I'm fine if you stop listeningto me now.
I stand by it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
Yeah, that is pretty funny.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
Did you ever read to Pokey's Original Sin?

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
Original Sin.

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
It was the one about the cute alien who gives the
depressed fourth grader toolsthat just result in horrible
murders and death.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
No, I don't think I read that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
It is so messed up.
He's just trying to make thiskid smile and everything he does
results in someone's prostitutemother dying and other like.
It goes super dark out ofnowhere or with always dark, and
I'm just kind of like schemingthrough the list.
Time paradox ghostwriter wasthe name of the one I'd

(01:04:43):
forgotten earlier which waspretty sick.
Toriko, I think we'vecomplained about before, but
what are your thoughts on theending of Toriko?
I think we've complained aboutbefore, but what are your
thoughts on the ending of Toriko?
uh, the ending of Torikodissatisfying that sums it up
pretty good, so I'm gonna likemake myself look bad here by

(01:05:06):
mentioning a manga I read simplyfor curiosity, all the way to
the end that did the jankiestending I've ever seen.
So it's called we Never Learn.
It was one of those shameless,tacky, rom-com-y gross anime
mangas that I was reading, forwhatever reason.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
Don't at me internet.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
But what they did was they actually wrote a different
ending where the protagonistdates a different character and
actually wrote out all fiveendings.
So it a different ending wherethe protagonist dates a
different character and actuallywrote out all five endings.
Huh, so it went through them insequence and wrote out what
each character's ending would be.
And it's like it didn't have adating simulator game that was
attached to it.
He's just like, yeah, I'm goingto write out what each pairing
would have been.
And I'm like, wait, really.
And I was more invested in theending than the series because

(01:05:45):
I'm like, wait, you're justgoing to actually list out what
would happen if they dated eachperson.
That's kind of amazing.
So, audience, don't read it,don't read, we Never Learn.
I did it for you, I took theshot.
Don't do it.
And then World Trigger endedafter the Rank Wars, which is

(01:06:07):
fine, I guess, but they neverreally got to go into the cosmos
.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
Oh yeah, too bad they never really got to go into the
cosmos.
Oh yeah, too bad that theynever got to go into the cosmos
and they never will.

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
Did you ever read Yu Yu Hakusho?

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
No, I have not.
There are some series where,unless it comes extremely highly
recommended, I see that it has600 or more chapters and was
like hmm, they forgot to end YuYu Hakusho.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
It's bad, oh, it is like exactly like the worst
aspects of the Bleach endingtenfold amplified Huh, where
it's just rushed, nonsensicalchaos.
But I think I made it throughall the things on Viz because I
just kind of pulled up all theirtitles and looked at, like what
we've read, looking at and alot of things that I didn't

(01:06:53):
think were Viz we got to talkabout like All you Need Is Kill
did not occur to me it would bea Viz series.

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
Oh yeah, it actually was Ran and Shown Jump
apparently.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
And I thought Black Clover ended, but I guess it
just stopped caring Well.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
Black Clover ended, but I guess it just stopped
caring.
Well, black Clover switched tobeing released monthly and now
he releases or quarterly, everythree months, and he generally
releases two chapters on hisquarterly release.

Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
And I'm also looking at a sub-series that almost had
a chance.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
I remember the few chapters of Candy Flurry, where
they made candy weapons to beatpeople to death.
Oh yeah, and everyone was like,watch out for the lollipop user
, because they killed everyone.
And she was like, but I'm thelollipop user and I didn't kill
anyone.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
Right.
And then we got Death Note,which had a great ending, and
then a second season.
For some reason You'll notice,it's a recurring thing to me you
, you're like, okay, you endedyour arc and you could have just
ended your show and you didn't.
And I'm holding it against youforever.
Forever, oh, you know what Ireally enjoyed?
The ending of Fairytale, partof the ending, oh, so Fairytale

(01:08:00):
has an exact problem.
Its first ending of the twoimmortal persons embracing their
love for each other.
Creating a paradox andobliterating each other was
awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
Right, the whole like oh.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
Nazi was a demon and da-da-da.
I'm like, actually you set allthat up.
Most of the random ass pulls inFairytale, because Fairytale is
garbage, but it's my favoritebrand of garbage.
We're like set up nicely.
We're like, okay, the evil dudewas off.
Making his own nation Makessense.
There's the full world map.
There's literally no reason hecouldn't.
You have a bunch of epic matches.

(01:08:34):
You bring back all the sidecharacters because it makes
sense, because Fairy Tail'sgreat ninja war made perfect
sense Because their continentwas being invaded.
I'm like, oh yeah, all yourcharacters live here, that's it.
That is the entire vestedinterest.
They need to be allies rightnow.
This is their house where theirstuff is.
But, like for Fairytale,there's a bit where, like, lucy

(01:08:56):
rewrites the magic book thatbuilt Natsu.
So her novelist subplot fromepisode one was actually the
thing that allowed them todefeat the villain was kind of
amazing.
Since Lucy was the protagonistof Fairytale, natsu was later.
She was Just straight up.
So I'm like it was a satisfyingending.
But they absolutely did theDragon Ball Z non-ending of like

(01:09:17):
, and we can sequel thiswhenever we want to the point
where the fairy tale hundredyear quest is airing, like right
now, like either on epicepisode five, but fairy tale did
something I wasn't expectingfrom a manga like that okay
romantic plot progressionhappens oh so gajil's girlfriend

(01:09:41):
levy is just pregnant.
Now, okay, and like charactersthat like started like dating
over the course of the show arelike oh so Gajil's girlfriend
Levy is just pregnant now, okay.
And like characters that likestarted like dating over the
course of the show, are like inrelationships and like working
their way through it and havinglike.
It's like for a show-and-jumpseries for the characters to
like actually have characterdevelopment and not just time
skip it away of like oh, greyfinally realized that the person
that's stalking him, theStalker Syndrome, is starting to

(01:10:03):
win and now he feels bad thathe ditched her.
I'm like wait, are thesecharacters actually experiencing
character growth?
That's weird.
I wasn't expecting this.
Like I thought Threattale wasgoing to go nowhere forever, but
I think your characters areaging and maturing.
Slowly, but they are what, as Ijust like sit up in my seat

(01:10:24):
slowly, but they are what, as Ijust like, sit up in my seat.

Speaker 2 (01:10:31):
Yeah, I mean the author of Fairy Tail, with all
of his Fairy Tail-esque spinoffsand whatnot.
He actually seems prettycompetent.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
He also has created a cinematic universe, which is
funny to me, because it's likeoh no, there's multiverse
portals, so my characters canjust show up in each other's
shows and there's literally noreason they can't, because I
wrote that in.
I'm like well played sir.

Speaker 2 (01:10:50):
Yeah, the cinematic universe is great.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
Also, he's super chill on fan projects and fan
games and put out a bounty forpeople to make fan games.
I'm like, even if fairy tale'sgarbage, I respect Hiro
Mashiro's ethic as a person whenhe's like there should be more
games about my thing so youcould just make them.
You know his agent had a strokewhen he heard that right, like
oh yeah, I'm not going to suepeople for making fan projects,
I love fan projects.

(01:11:13):
I'm like what, who are you?
You know you live in Japan.
Right, are you allowed to saythis legally?

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
Japan, famously against fan projects.

Speaker 1 (01:11:27):
Yes, they're like how dare you modify a console you
legally own?
We'll shoot you.
But yeah, fairytale Ravemasterand.

Speaker 2 (01:11:42):
Oh, I like Ravemaster .

Speaker 1 (01:11:43):
Right and Eden Zero was okay, and then it's like
Eden Zero was okay.
I don't know he doesn't writemasterpieces.
He writes fun long-runningseries that I'm just allowed to
enjoy.
He's basically the Wendy's ofmanga.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
Well, I mean, that seems like a good chance to
pivot into our random questionof the day, indeed.

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
That was a very smooth pivot.

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
I mean, I don't actually have a random question.

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
Oh, I thought you were going to blow my mind here.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
No, no, okay, my random question uh, what would
you do if you could transforminto a super saiyan, complete
with like the um aura and likethe shock aura and the hair
transformation, whatnot?
Uh, but it confers nomeaningful benefits oh, what

(01:12:42):
would I do with it?
Yeah, like you.
You can go super saiyan, youcan transform, but you don't
actually gain anything fromtransforming.
I'm an author every time.

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
so I would be in normal mode and as soon as I
like, pull out my book or go tospeak or do a reading, I go
super saiyan.
I would abuse the heck out ofthis like richard the student
with his glasses, like I do thefull card, can't I pull off my
glasses?
Go Super Saiyan, give a speechany time I make a public
appearance and then just turnback to normal and that's just
my gimmick.
So I'm at student orientation,just I go Super Saiyan at the

(01:13:16):
booth.
That'd be amazing.
I don't need my strength boost.
You're giving me the ability tomake my outfit dramatically
billow at will.

Speaker 2 (01:13:25):
Well, yeah, I mean you might have to worry about
the stuff on the table flyingoff when you turn it up though
Worth it every time.

Speaker 1 (01:13:31):
Like the sheer amount of bluffage.
Like someone, like 2 in themorning, is like, hey, give me
your wallet.
Are you going to go?
Super Saiyan, they're not goingto huck around and find out.
They have no idea what justhappened.

Speaker 2 (01:13:48):
How about you?
You just screamed and they fellback.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
Yeah, I would use that ability.
I'd have to specifically go tomy way to not use it more than
once a week before it losesluster, because it's such a good
trick.

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):
Well see, I think I would go the opposite.
I would like uh be constantlytransformed, uh, and then, when
I wanted like be unassuming anddisappear, I would just be like,
okay, uh, I'm gonna leave nowand then power down.
Everybody's like, oh hey, wheredid carl go?
It's like I don't know he's.

Speaker 1 (01:14:18):
You know, bright blonde, spiky hair is pretty
hard to miss where I would useit like to punctuate sentences,
like when I just gave that rantabout the 10 numbered villains.
I would just go super saiyanwhile I'm ranting about the
ending all right, here's ouractual random question which
came from my event, from one ofour podcast fans.
Because I ran to one of ourpodcast fans at the wedding I

(01:14:40):
went to oh nice, here's one.
If animals could talk, whichone do you think would be the
rudest?

Speaker 2 (01:14:48):
Which animal do I think would be the rudest?
Well see, that's not exactlyfair, Because animals have their
own distinct personalities.
You would certainly be able toget to know them better.
It's house cats.
In terms of domesticatedanimals, I do think house cats
would be unreasonably sassy.

(01:15:09):
But I also, I think that fishwould be pretty rude too.

Speaker 1 (01:15:16):
I can see that House cats for sure would be rude.
Fish would definitely be prettyrude.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
Well, they would just be very demanding.
They don't really have a wholelot going on, so every time they
see you they'd be like hey,what are you doing?

Speaker 1 (01:15:32):
Let's pause for a moment.
We know what animal it is.
They're already the rudest.
They're called Canadian geese.
They would just say slurs atyou, like, if you subtitled a
Canadian goose it would just beslurs at you.
Like, if you subtitled aCanadian goose it would just be
slurs, slurs, slurs, which is abit they did in a hell of a boss
thing About penguins.

Speaker 2 (01:15:55):
Yeah, you're right, canadian geese would just be the
rudest animal On earth, forsure.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
You'd be like can you move?
And it'd be like I'm going toburn down your house, you
garbage and I will eat yourremains.
You're're like, you're tiny.
He's like I will cut you.

Speaker 2 (01:16:11):
You know, I also think kangaroos.
Kangaroos seem like they'd bepretty rude too.

Speaker 1 (01:16:18):
Right, but you know who would not be rude.
You know who would be sagely.
Every capybara on the planetsounds like a mix between Uncle
Iroh and a hug.
All capybaras must sound atleast a little like Uncle Iroh.
Just looking at them and theirexpression, with an orange on
their head in a hot spring.

Speaker 2 (01:16:38):
You know I'm going to have to get back to you with
this next week, but at myworkplace we have an Australian
guy.
He's working as a deliverydriver.
I am curious if he thinks thatkangaroos would be rude if they
could speak.
I'll have to ask him.
That's interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:16:57):
We do have one other random question before we wrap
it up.
If your pet suddenly developedthe ability to plot world
domination.
How long do you think it wouldtake them?

Speaker 2 (01:17:09):
if my pet randomly or suddenly could develop the
ability to plot world domination.

Speaker 1 (01:17:15):
How long do you think it would take them?
Mika would never succeed.
He's been raised like me, by me.
He has no chance of success.

Speaker 2 (01:17:28):
Hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:17:29):
He'd have the ability but, much like me, with the
power of ADHD, it would all justbe plans.
He'd have fully functioningmech suit, blueprints next to
the occult cube and five of thetwelve Jackie Chan talismans.

Speaker 2 (01:17:43):
Five, five of the 12.

Speaker 1 (01:17:48):
Just couldn't commit to one plan.

Speaker 2 (01:17:58):
Yeah well, I mean, you're probably right, Animals
can't count.
They would probably end up withnine gym badges.

Speaker 1 (01:18:05):
No, it's not that.
Animals in general.
My pet specifically is exactlyas dumb as me.

Speaker 2 (01:18:14):
Now, relatively recently, we got an extremely
cute and docile cat.
Her name is Elsa.
She was like she's six yearsold, so like she was a rescue
cat that tragically, herprevious owner got too sick to

(01:18:36):
be able to take care of heranymore, so she had to put her
up for adoption.

Speaker 1 (01:18:39):
So I thought you were really going to say, tragically
, she killed her last owner.

Speaker 2 (01:18:44):
Well, I mean mean, maybe, maybe this is just the
cover story, um, but I mean, ifshe could plan world domination,
I, I just uh, I I think shewould probably uh, just have
better plans on how to act, cuteand get treats like.
I think she, I think she woulduse her world domination powers

(01:19:04):
for her own selfish gains.

Speaker 1 (01:19:06):
Or I think Miko would absolutely try but wouldn't
succeed.
He has the spite but not thefollow-through.

Speaker 2 (01:19:15):
Yeah, my Elsa is not spiteful.

Speaker 1 (01:19:20):
I was cat-sitting a couple weeks ago and Miko
remembered he knew, was notpleased.
He didn't smell the other caton you Absolutely.
And with that, thank you fortuning in to this week's episode
of Richard and Carl presentDeep Space and Dragons.
Spoiler warning the episode youjust listened to contains
spoilers for a minimum of 10series.
Enjoy.

Speaker 2 (01:19:42):
I don't know this is a good ending, but I don't think
this is a good ending, but Idon't think we really spoiled
that much.
I think we just said, oh, thishad a good ending oh, good point
.
Snape killed Dumbledore thatwas a good ending.
I liked that.

Speaker 1 (01:19:57):
Bye honestly, it's kind of funny as a good plot
twist you can't really spoilbecause it makes narrative sense
like the chessboard.
I spoiled it because it wascool, even if you know about it.
I can't actually remember thelast time something straight up
spoiled and I got disappointedby it.
Oh, the Dragon Ball Super,super Hero movie where they just

(01:20:18):
showed off all the new forms ah, yeah, yeah, okay.

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