Episode 88: Night of the Living Karl

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Prepare to embark on a thrilling journey through the worlds of horror and sci-fi as we unravel the cultural impact of "Night of the Living Dead," and discover what makes this iconic 1968 film a timeless classic. Ever wondered how black-and-white cinematography and chocolate sauce came together to create the perfect zombie apocalypse? We promise you'll gain insight into how these unique production choices paved the way for modern cinematic techniques, influencing groundbreaking films like "Sin City" and "Spider-Verse." We'll also explore the double-edged sword of CGI's creative potential and its overuse in today’s movies, pondering how "Night of the Living Dead's" ending still resonates with contemporary audiences.

But the fun doesn't stop there. Get ready for a rollicking exploration of zombie lore as we examine the evolution of the undead in films and anime. We'll celebrate the British humor of "Shaun of the Dead," dive into the campy charm of "Evil Dead," and raise an eyebrow at the tropes in "28 Days Later" and "The Walking Dead." Marvel at the emotional core found in "The Last of Us," where the undead serve as a backdrop for profound human stories. With references to games like Telltale's "The Walking Dead" and anime such as "Tokyo Ghoul," we'll highlight how different media approach the zombie narrative, from mindless hordes to hybrids with a hint of humanity.

As our discussion reaches new creative heights, we'll brainstorm innovative ideas for setting zombie stories in unexpected historical contexts, imagining tech-savvy zombies or even martial arts-infused undead battles. We'll also have a whimsical chat about the art of safe teleportation, using cardboard cutouts to add a magical touch. And for a grand finale, expect some pun-filled fun as we ponder a world where humor reigns supreme, and even the undead are urged to exercise their voting rights. Join us for an entertaining and thought-provoking episode filled with laughter and unexpected insights!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Happy festive season of falling leaves and gourds,
maybe or August.
You can watch this whenever youwant.
I'm Richard, not telling youwhat to do.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
I am Carl.
I mean, I'm also not going totell you what to do.
That's not my job.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Yeah, between us we have a net total leadership stat
of zero, which is ironicconsidering what we've done for
careers.
And welcome to Deep Space andDragons.
We're hosts.
I think to possible zombieviruses, but likely not.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Ooh, yeah, we could be patient zero, you know let's
be honest, panda's patient zero.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
We know this already Through everything he says and
does.
I'm 90% sure he's already azombie.
So what's new in the Carlverse?
Probably zombies.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Oh well, it's not Well.
I mean, yes, zombies are in theCarlverse, but yeah.
So I watched Night of theLiving Dead for my tradition of
watching horror movies with mygirlfriend, Fiancé Person.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Nice, good save.
I enjoy the idea that yourfiancé person who's special will
listen to this episode like 10years from now and be like
Fiancé person who's special.
Huh, and you're like that's acompliment.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
A pretty good one, anyways.
So Night of the Living Dead,released in 1968, by 1966 most
North American films were shotin color so might have been a
misplay so Night of the LivingDead.
It was an artistic choice slash, budget constraint choice to.

(01:42):
Apparently they used chocolatesauce for blood and ham donated
from a local butcher for likebody parts and makeup and stuff
so before we go deeper into this, I want to dissect that a bit.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
I love that.
So part of my job in mydepartment is people have been
shooting videos right of doingredacted and IP protected and
redacted shoots about redactingtopic.
And there's like stock footage.
One of my teammates is makingbackgrounds, I'm helping edit
scripts and I'm like you knowwhat If these were in black and

(02:21):
white?
You're right, in black andwhite, special effects are much
easier.
But maybe being bright andcolorful and energetic is wrong.
Maybe students would be like,hey, we're here to help you with
your anxiety, but is it likeblack and white?
People would be like what?
Or if it was black and whiteand red and that was it.
It's like you need to take amoment to notice nature to

(02:41):
distress, and it was like justin, like a sin city color
palette.
I don't know that might thatmight cause enough dissonance to
get the second look oh, as aside note, um, sin city, um, is
it the entire film?

Speaker 2 (02:59):
the entire film is actually shot on green screen,
um, and so then, uh, like thebackground light and the
foreground light aren't,obviously aren't the same, and
it helps give you those likesuper nice angular lines that,
like you generally see in actualcomic books, uh, but then if
you're actually like, if youactually want realistic lighting

(03:19):
, that's not the movie for you,but it's a very awesome
stylistic choice to be in blackand white and against the green
screen.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Well, it's black and white with very specific color
choices, like gold shows up oncein a while and red shows up
once in a while, and the thingis CGI.
We love to throw shade at CGIhere in Deep Space and Dragons,
like the Expendables changing ahelicopter from black to white
instead of just using paint.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Right right.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
If you choose to do CGI and and go fun with it.
I'm not talking ant-man, wherethey just shot it in front of a
green, the entire movie in frontof a green screen for ant-man 3
.
I'm talking like fun mind bendystuff like spider-verse, using
different frame rates fordifferent characters.
I support use of like fun cgi.
I don't support use of cloningrobert downey jr digitally with

(04:04):
ai so they can resurrect him asa digital zombie, but that's a
story for another day.
Today is not a Marvel episode.
Although that was my entireFriday shift, it was just me
ranting about Marvel movies.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
But so Night of the Living Dead is a landmark cinema
film for horror movies.
So many many directors thatcame afterwards cite Night of
the Living Dead as one of theirinspirations for why they got
into filmmaking.
And I will say I've mentioned acouple times that there's

(04:38):
movies that are old and then thetwist is that there is no twist
.
Yep, spoiler alert for a50-year-old movie, almost
60-year-old movie, you know.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
I love our inconsistencies for spoilers,
because we'll literally open anepisode with and then JJK Gojo
died, and then spoiler warningNosferatu.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
Well, no, I mean, night of the Living Dead isn't
that old.
Like I said, it came out in1968, but and actually having
never seen it before, itactually had a genuine twist at
the end, because the main, themain character, he's a black guy
and he makes it through thenight.

(05:23):
He's the only person in thishouse that makes it through the
night.
The main character, he's ablack guy and he makes it
through the night.
He's the only person in thishouse that makes it through the
night.
And then the military andpolice forces, or whatever
they're working together,they're hunting the zombies the
next day and he hears themcoming, because he hears their
dogs and he hears the guns.
And so he cautiously goes outof the cellar to double check

(05:46):
what's going on.
And the police officer sees himin the window and it's not
clear, uh, if they shot him inthe head because they thought he
was a zombie or it's because hewas black.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
so one of my favorite ironic dragon ball z abridged
memes, uh, dragon ball supermemes is.
There's just a line where trunksays to the future cops in the
future, don't shoot.
This man's not black as areference to goku black, and I
just see that meme once in awhile and it's uh, but for the
record, disclaimer I want on therecord to go Deep Space and

(06:23):
Dragons does not endorse racism.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
But the point I'm trying to make is actually it's
like I I thought at least somepeople would survive to the end
and in the end nobody survived.
Like there's they try to makean escape attempt and end up
blowing up a truck with twopeople inside, uh, or like
they're.
They're just trying to survivethe night and zombies are

(06:52):
busting down doors and stuff.
And then, yeah, like the, thetoken black guy, instead of
dying first, he dies last.
Um, and it's so many layers.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
To that I mean Deep Space and Dragons.
Disclaimer does not have thepower to solve racism.
If we did, we would have doneso.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
But anyways the TLDR.
There are some odd choices andthe pacing is a little bit slow
compared to modern movies,Except for the Batman.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
Have you watched?

Speaker 2 (07:24):
The Batman, but Night of the Living Dead.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
Have you watched the Batman like the newest one?
Because that is paced slow oh.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
But the point is that I would actually still
recommend Night of the LivingDead, apparently not the first
zombie movie.
According to Wikipedia, that'sa movie called White Zombie.
That's not even dead In 1932.
But yeah, night of the LivingDead, decent movie.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
All right.
So instead of going with thewhat's new with either of us, I
want to talk zombies.
So now we've talked Night ofthe Living Dead, let's talk the
best movie ever made Shaun ofthe Dead.
Night of the Living Dead, let'stalk the best movie ever made?

Speaker 2 (08:05):
Shaun of the Dead.
Okay, shaun of the Dead is anexcellent Zomcom, as Wikipedia
says.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
The only good.
Zomcom.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
The only good, zomcom , I mean.
I don't really have that manyother examples, but like.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
It's hard to make a good Zomcom.
The only reason it worked wasit had the driest, most
British's sense of humor I'dever seen and very good
cinematography, because it'slike you watch her do his
mundane walk and then do azombie walk, and they did both
of those in one take each rightright it's like they tried
really hard to make a bad moviewhich resulted in an amazing

(08:43):
movie.
Well, I mean, that's definitelyone really hard to make a bad
movie which resulted in anamazing movie.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Well, I mean, that's definitely one of those examples
where the director makes a hugeimpact on the cinematography,
like you say, like how thescenes are shot and those long

(09:08):
sort of symmetrical shots, likeit's let's go parallel, parallel
shots.
Yeah, because?
Because he does the the samething before the zombies as he
does when the zombies come, andhe he ironically is such a
zombie he doesn't even noticethe actual zombies that's the
joke of the movie is sean wasdead inside.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
It's such a zombie that he doesn't even notice the
actual zombies.
That's the joke of the movie isSean was dead inside.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
It's great, right, right.
And yeah, the director I don'tremember who it was, but the
director of the the Sean of theDead movie really like Hammered
that home in so many subtle ways.
Edgar.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
Wright, that's great Edgar.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
Yeah, that guy definitely an excellent director
.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
So, like Shaun of the Dead is one direction zombie
shows can go, that was good, so,dawn of the Dead serious zombie
movie good.
Shaun of the Dead seriouscomedy good.
Like I've said this aboutDragon Ball Z Abridged before
too, a good comedy is shot likea movie that's taking itself
seriously, because it's likecomedies will often be like well

(10:16):
, since we're just doing acomedy, we don't have to care.
I'm like no, no care.
When you care it is a bettercomedy.
So you know what movie way, Ididn't care.
Zombieland ooh yeah, zombielandwas ridiculous and then it's

(10:39):
like I look up the director forshot of the dead, they're like
are they making a shot of thedead too?
It's like no, never, theyrefuse, they'd rather the Dead
2?
.
It's like no, never, theyrefuse, they'd rather die.
I'm like that's correct.
Every part of that is correct.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
I didn't realize that Dawn of the Dead was actually a
sequel to Night of the LivingDead.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
Now you know what movie, though, to go on?
The trifecta of zombies.
So we have serious zombies, wehave comedy zombies and we have
evil dead.
Evil dead in all its cheesygoodness, with its chainsaw
hands, its army of darkness, itsevil dead.
That is a great two in themorning while eating McNuggets

(11:22):
movie yeah is it a good movie?
No, I'm not going to pretend itis.
Is it a great movie?
Absolutely.
That's one of those thingsthat's probably been parodied
more than I've seen it Like I'veseen.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
Army of Darkness.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
I've watched it once and I've seen Evil Dead and Evil
Dead 2.
And they're great movies, butthey've definitely been like
lampooned so many times that theoriginal might have been like
absorbed into pop culture.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah, that's true.
Watching these older movies andthen the twist is that there is
no twist Because they've beenparodied and contorted so many
times, because people alreadyknow them Right.
The real question about zombiesTo me Is like how much can you

(12:19):
actually do with zombies?

Speaker 1 (12:22):
So To go into a mini monologue about the difference
Between zombies and the infectedso zombies, so to go into a
mini monologue about thedifference between zombies and
the infected so zombies, akamagical zombies, don't need to
be explained, they're justzombies.
Has become the more interestingvariant Because 28 days later
made the infected a thing.
Sure, it was technicallyResident Evil that probably

(12:42):
ripped that off and that wasprobably ripped off by something
else before it.
But the infected is boring, it'sjust ooh, it's super rabies,
we're going to explain it.
And those movies became thesame movie, like 28 Days Later
and the Walking Dead are thesame basic concept, right, and I
find those less interestingbecause, like the whole, ooh, we

(13:04):
all have the zombie virus.
It's kind of been done to deathat this point.
Right, right I don't know How'dyou feel about 28 days later.
Slash resident evil wannabe.
I'm calling it right now, and ifthey pretend they didn't see
resident evil before they had achimp infected with the rage
virus, I call bullshit.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
Well, yeah, I mean, that's definitely one of my
least favorite ways of quoteunquote.
Creating zombies is theinfection.
Like Walking Dead in particular, I found it's like the first
two seasons there's hope thatthey might find a cure, and then

(13:50):
it's like, oh no, everyone'sinfected and you turn into a
zombie as soon as you die.
And it was.
It's like, why am I stillwatching this?
And every season ends up beingthe same thing, where they find
a place to hunker down and thenshit goes south so my issue with
the walking dead is actuallyfrom a narrative point of view,

(14:12):
not a zombie point of view.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
So mutant rage zombie , sure, why not?
You can do everything from highschool of the dead to attack on
titan, if you really thinkabout it.
So the concept of of the viralzombie, you can do that, sure.
The problem with the WalkingDead is there was no win
condition and we knew that.
Because there's one seasonwhere.

(14:34):
I'm a scientist, I need to getthere.
Well, I was just lying.
I'm like that wasn't a twist.
We knew that.
What would have been the twistis there was actually a solution
to this, because they do thebig cryptic reveal at the end of
season one and the big revealis like, yeah, we're all screwed
.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
That's not a big reveal, that's nothing.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
Where, at least Resident Evil, you could punch a
boulder.
At least there was a win con inthose as cheesy and cliche as
it was.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
Also I enjoyed that it just low-key declared Attack
on Titan a zombie movie.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
Well, I mean it kind of is I don't know, Kind of sort
of it's a bit of a stretch.
Oh, the worst trope, though, inanime is, when you have the
zombie person, just bring backdead characters.
If you do it poorly, it can befun, and it can also fail
miserably.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
So I mean okay.
So in terms of anime, there aretwo big examples of zombies
right off the bat, the first onebeing Naruto, which we talked
about last week, but we didn'treally focus much on the zombie
aspect.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
That's because that's the part they screwed up Like.
I'm not even going to dignifythat with a follow-up.
They weren't zombies.
They used magic ninja magic toresurrect them as a mortal fan
service.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
Okay, okay.
And then the other one that's alittle more interesting is
Bleach.
The one starring writer hasthat blood power where she, like
, when she bleeds on people, sheturns them into zombies.
What's?

Speaker 1 (16:05):
funny is bleach.
Body mechanics make no sense,so everyone in bleach is a ghost
already, right, and you'remaking ghosts into zombies.
Repeat that out loud, please.
What were they doing in bleach,carl?
They were making ghosts intozombies so I'm not going to

(16:27):
dignify that with an explanation.
But the worst part is they'relike literally used to
circumvent characters dying in aseries where there's already
healing magic and it was hard tokill people.
I'm like, okay, you did notneed a zombie person to
resurrect the captain to haveanother person hit them with a
different zombie virus.
When you have a character whorewinds injuries, so,

(16:48):
unnecessary.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
So did you know.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
So High School of the Dead and Kabardy of the Iron
Force, chris, were two straightup zombie animes.
But I look up the list ofzombie animes and they're like
Zombieland Saga and I'm like Idon't think I watched Zombieland
Saga.
But then they're like Hellsingand I're like Zombieland Saga
and I'm like I don't think Iwatched Zombieland Saga.
But then they're like Helsingand I'm like, alright, let's
talk about like the problem withHelsing, either the anime or

(17:13):
like Underworld and Vampires,werewolf, zombies zombies are
the putty troopers of horrormovies when they're mixed with
other more horrifying thingsright because, like vampire,
thrall is such an archetype butit's so much less.
I don't know.
It's like if you have otherbetter evil things, zombies

(17:37):
become woefully punchable well,yeah, I mean so a lot of
supposedly like zombie animes.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
It's like, are they?
Are they really zombies or arethey like ghouls?

Speaker 1 (17:52):
it's perfect pivot.
I think tokyo ghoul season onereally fits the zombie feel a
lot better it definitely lookslike a zombie movie right,
because it's like they're nottechnically zombies at all.
They're regular living lifeforms that just happen to be
cannibals.
But they're zombie-esque, but ithas the zombie energy of like

(18:12):
I'm forced to buy people againstmy will and I just there's a
lot of energy it has, especiallywhen it's more coffee shoppy at
the start.
I'm not going to say the TokyoGhoul manga or the future seat
later seasons after he getsamnesia and becomes a ghost
buster, but the first seasondefinitely had good zombie
energy.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Like I respected it, it was quite zombie yeah, but I
mean then it's like yeah,technically they are more ghouls
than zombies, hence the name.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
I suppose like suppose, like even like Soul
Eater's, like yeah, we have acharacter who's a zombie, just
the one character, but we justare putting in all the horror
movie homages we can get and I'mshocked in retrospect that Soul
Eater never had a vampire.
It had witches, ghosts, awerewolf, zombies, a creepy
laughing moon, venom, but novampire.

(19:05):
Weird line for them to notcross.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
But so then, obviously, neither of us are a
huge fan of the people who areinfected, Like I am legend with
Will Smith.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
He certainly is a legend these days.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
Oh, man, has he lost my respect.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
But that's not what we're going to go into today,
but if you want to Google it,just Google.
Will Smith lost my respect andI'll probably explain it for you
.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
Interestingly enough, a little side note Apparently
he is one of three movie stars.
That's still a draw to thetheaters.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
Bah.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
Bah, bah.
Anyways, so infected zombies,so back to Night of the Living
Dead.
They weren't exactly infectedwith a virus, but the
explanation in in universe isthat, uh, they sent a probe to

(20:08):
venus and it came back with somesort of weird radiation
infecting it and that radiationreactivates the brains of the
recently deceased and turnedsome into cannibals, you know I
don't like that, less or morelike I feel like it.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
If they re-rate that movie today, they would have
went with the virus instead,because it fits our current
science more.
And I don't think it would havechanged anything.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah, okay, but like what other kinds of zombies?
Like there's magicallyresurrected zombies?

Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yeah, so at this point zombies have just become
the infected right.
Like other than literally EvilDead or D&D.
Zombies aren't magic anymore.
Magic zombies really only worksif you have like a more
historical setting going on.
Right showers for but neverwatch for.

(21:05):
It's like I'm a medical studentwho's a zombie who eats the
brains of victims to experiencetheir memories.
I'm like, wow, you guys reallyreally are trying so hard to
make your police proceduralsinteresting and I give you some
credit.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
It was interesting well, you know, I'm uh, my
roommate actually rather enjoyedI zombie.
I found it got a little bittired after a while.
But basically it's exactly asyou say the medical student.
She works for the morgue and or, yeah, she's like doing her

(21:36):
practicum at the morgue orsomething, and then she goes and
she has a party on a houseboatwhere she gets bitten by and
infected by a zombie and thenmost of the series she solves
crimes by eating people's brainsand she takes on their
personality and their memoriesto try and solve their crimes,
like eating the victim's brainsso that she can regain their

(22:01):
memories and try and solve theirmurders, while the through plot
is her trying to solve what'sgoing on with this zombie virus
and and all the other zombiesthat are doing their political
zombie shenanigans.
So what's interesting?

Speaker 1 (22:17):
I'm sorry, go ahead oh no, finish that up well, I
just I.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
I did actually find the premise to be fairly
interesting.
Just a problem with TV shows ingeneral is that they often
overstay their welcome and theyjust kind of keep rehashing the
same thing over and over.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah, it's kind of like the joke in the Walking
Dead is it's not the zombies,they're the walking dead Because
they're doomed.
No matter what.
I'm like okay, should haveended you at four seasons, then
shouldn't you have?
Yeah, what I'm like okay,should have ended you at four
seasons, then shouldn't you have.
Well, what's interesting is, Ithink, part of what makes
particularly the retro onesversus some other zombie things
feel more zombie is at thispoint we can kind of accept that

(22:57):
we're just going to use rageviruses instead of magic.
But horror, right.
Good horror writing is you onlyshow like 10 of the monster,
right?
So, when you explain yourzombies and then have an
antidote to your zombies, youlose value of the zombies Like.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
Night of the.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
Living Dead probably didn't actually need to explain
the zombies right, like sure youcould go radiation, mutate
brains, whatever you want.
But quite frankly it's theunknown that makes it kind of
interesting.
The reason Tokyo Ghoul's firstseason felt more zombie is it
felt more horror in generalBecause it had this more
methodic pace of like oh, thisis just a bunch of Hannibal

(23:36):
Lecters in this story.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
Trying to out Hannibal.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
Lecter each other, but like completely brainless
zombies, are you know, actually?
So recently I watched aresident evil live action show
on netflix and it wasinteresting because like they
had cliche resident evil things,like we got our scientists, we
got a range virus, we got anoff-brand wesker clone and I

(24:02):
enjoyed it, even though it wasextremely predictable, because
it's resident evil, of course itis.
But then you got the last of usand decide to go with fungus
zombies, the fungus, oh yeah, Iwas gonna ask you when you
thought about the last of us andthe show so for the show.
As I said before, emotionalthrough lines are what make your

(24:23):
zombie show right.
And using a zombie show as yoursetting for your Grogu
Mandalorian, reluctant oldsoldier, young daughter
archetype trying to surviveagainst a cruel world where you
have to sacrifice your daughterto save the world or screw over
the world to save your daughter.
Great use of zombies Becausezombies make a great existential

(24:45):
threat.
You don't have to feel bad, foryou can kill them.
They could be as scary as theyneed to be right but last of us.
Its emotional core was solid.
One of the best hours of tv andrecent memories is we just
followed a side character who,him and his husband, went
through their awkward falling inlove during a zombie apocalypse
days, where one was a doomsdayprepper and the other one was

(25:07):
just trying to live his bestlife.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
Right.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
It was beautiful.
It was poignant because theidea was the zombies are leading
to isolation, becoming closewith the people you care about
against the ever-present threat,not trusting humanity and
knowing when to open up and try.
And basically the key zombietrope is dying is like choosing
to do something good and itpossibly costing you your life.

(25:33):
Right, like choosing optimismat the cost of your life.
Is kind of a cliche zombiemovie trope, but I think it's an
important zombie movie tropeimportant zombie movie trope.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
Hmm.
So yeah, you are right thatalmost, if not all, zombie
movies have at least onecharacter who sacrifices
themselves to the horde so thatsomeone else can escape.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
And a key point too, is that the first humans you run
across in a zombie movie.
The humans are always going tobe more dangerous than the
zombies in a zombie movie, andthat becomes the ethical dilemma
is helping out other survivorsat the risk of yourself?
That's kind of the core conceptthat zombie movies thrive on,
and Shaun of the Dead nailed itLike it was.
Like okay, I'm going to usethis as an excuse to get back

(26:18):
with my ex.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
No.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
Okay, we're just going to go to the bar till this
whole thing blows over.
But like it had all the keyactual dramatic, zombie,
self-sacrifice, heroic moments,so I went through one of those
Telltale Walking Dead games aspart of a class I was doing last
semester and the interactivegame was probably more
interesting than the actual showBecause it gives you those

(26:41):
moral choices of who do you saveand when, which is really good
for a choose-your-own-adventurenovel and it was kind of a
ghost-trainedchoose-your-own-adventure novel,
like none of the choices reallychanged the overall plot so
much, but the premise of zombiesurvival.
But you get to choose.
They also gave you a moreinteresting character where
you're an ex-convict who got outduring a zombie apocalypse and

(27:03):
had to lie to people becauseyou're an ex-convict.
It's interesting the socialdynamics of the zombie
apocalypse destroys all existingpower structures and then you
have to rebuild it.
And are you going to beoptimistic or pessimistic?
The worst zombie movies are theones where you just release the

(27:23):
zombie cure and the zombies goaway at the end.
But equally bad is if you don'thave a character arc, so the
zombies kill everybody andthere's no hope at the end
Because what your actual arc isis does the grizzled old man
who's lost his daughter bondwith the young child and escape?

(27:45):
That was the actual through line.
They weren't going to hear thezombie problem.
Nor were they going to dieaccomplishing nothing, to
nihilism.
The Last of Us had a very clearobjective.
Also, you know what has zombies?
That's not really a zombieseries Fallout.
See, we kind of talked aboutmutants very briefly because

(28:05):
technically that's how they madethe zombies in Night of the
Living Dead Nuclear fallout isthe other thing that makes
zombies Rage virus magic andnuclear fallout.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yeah, but like you say, most modern series or
examples of zombies havebasically given up on the magic
aspect, Like it's pretty muchnon-existent.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
That's a perfect example, even though we spend
way too much of Deep Space andDragons talking about Bleach In
a show with literal magic, withghosts in the afterlife who have
magic like actual magic.
They used a rage virus still tomake their zombies.
It was literally if my bloodsplashes on them and I feed them

(28:50):
my blood, they turn to zombiesand I'm like you, make arrows of
spirit energy.
Why is there a biologicalcomponent to this?
And then Naruto's like oh, wejust use magic to bring them
back, but they're not mindless.
So if they're not mindless, soif they're?

Speaker 2 (29:11):
not mindless, then they're also not really zombies,
are they?
Yeah, I mean, that's a goodpoint.
Just part of being a zombie isbeing mindless.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Because if you're not mindless, then, Like the thing
is, I like the hybrid zombies,I'll let the Tokyo Ghoul ones
get away with it where it's like, okay, they're not mindless,
but they go feral when they gethungry, Like that's kind of fun.
And they're like a lot ofmetrics show that they're
technically dead.
Like if you're slowly becomingmore zombie-like and if you
start devouring people you justgo actual, outright zombie.
That's great, like youbasically turned into a

(29:42):
centipede monster by the end ofit, which is horrifying.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
But it had the energy I was looking for.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yeah, that's true.
So then you have things likeZombieland, which there's a lot
of things that just wanted to beShaun of the Dead but forgot to
Because Shaun of the Dead was acomedy set in an actual zombie
movie, where a lot of the timethey set their zombie comedies
in a comedy movie.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
And then they add zombies to try and make things
funny or interesting.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
Yeah, that's the difference between being set in
a zombie movie and being acomedy that has zombies.
It's how serious the zombiepart is, which it really wasn't
for Shaun of the Dead, but itkind of was, and yeah 28 Days.
Later had fast zombies, whichthe joke is, fast zombies are

(30:35):
more dangerous.
If we look for Left 4 Dead andyour classic zombie video games
fast zombies they gogeometrically opposed to the
horror plot because, as Imentioned, the unseen threat is
90% of horror.
The thing barely ever showedthe thing.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
Right.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
So the reason I point that out is if your zombies are
fast and you see them runningat you, that's less scary than
it being silent with a littlebit of rustling and then brah
zombie out of nowhere.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
Going back to the Night of the Living dead, uh,
one of the strange choices theymade.
Okay, so firstly, a little sidetangent, um, I mentioned that
many directors um cite night ofthe living dead as as one of
their inspirations, and I don'tknow if this is direct
inspiration or not, but night ofthe Living Dead opens with

(31:26):
several fairly long shots of acar driving out into the country
, and it immediately made methink of the Shining.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
Oh, the Shining.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
But then because the Shining has even longer shots of
the car driving out into thecountry and it's just like it's
that they're both the openingcredit scene and the dramatic,
scary music of just this cardriving out into the country.
But anyways, the point Iactually wanted to make was the

(32:00):
other strange thing, that one ofthe strange things that Night
of the Living Dead did isthere's a five, ten minute chase
scene and the zombie's justhobbling after the character
named Barbara.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
Barbara, I don't know why that's funny, it just kind
of is.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
But yeah, the zombie's just hobbling after her
and she's just running andrunning and running and she gets
into a car and the zombiefollows her car and the zombie.
She ends up into a car and thezombie follows her car and the
zombie she, like, ends upcrashing the car and the zombie
is still chasing her.
And it's just like why is thissuper slow zombie like so
dedicated to getting this onegirl?
where if you have many zombies,then you can fix that error

(32:42):
right, like you deal with onezombie and, ah, another zombie,
shisha, but I mean, then shegoes to the can fix that error
right, Like you deal with onezombie and, ah, another zombie,
Shasha Well, I mean, then shegoes to the abandoned farmhouse
where she meets all the othercharacters, and the farmhouse is
steadily surrounded by zombies.
So I mean it does solve some ofthe issue I just mentioned by
having people hole up in a house.
But I just thought it was sofunny how, like, like you say,

(33:05):
say fast zombies aren't reallyas scary as zombies popping out
of nowhere.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
uh, but I guess back in 1968, being chased by a
zombie for you know minutes onend is was a terrifying prospect
because the thing is or you canmix it up too, like if% of your
zombies are slow and then oneof them just lunges at you,
walking against Resident Evilstyle it'll get you.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
Right.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
Because it's funny, Last of Us as a game is
definitely modeled after theResident Evil Silent Hill vibes
of you're given janky controlsintentionally because the
situation is tense.
But then you go the otherdirection with things like Dead
Rising or Zombies U, where it'slike no, we just want to beat

(33:55):
the easily smookable mooks.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
Oh ZombiU.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
ZombiU is interesting .

Speaker 2 (34:05):
It's one of those interesting concepts at wii u
well, see, I'm pretty surezombie you did better when it
was just zombie uh.
They re-released it on ps4, Ibelieve, maybe ps3, uh, but the
the prepper, they just basicallydid away with it.

(34:27):
I love the Wii U architecture,but not many people knew how to
use it.
But Zombie Eagle is aninteresting game.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
I'm so excited that Xenoblade Chronicle X is getting
remastered.
I don't think they'll ever fixthe multiplayer, but it was a
really cool game.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
It was a really cool game.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
A friend of mine was telling me I should watch
Kingdom, which is a Koreanhistorical filler about zombies.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
Wow, and it's like.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
Yeah, that's all I know about it.
I just wanted to say this outloud to listeners, because at
least one person will be likeespecially if it's that same
friend like, yeah, you shouldwatch Kingdom.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
So if we go on to witchcraft, slash magic used to
resurrect zombies.
So you've seen what's availablefor what we do in the shadows.
Yes, um yeah, they're onezombie joke well, I mean, they
kind of had, they kind of hadtwo, because the the one guy

(35:39):
becomes a zombie, uh, and thenhe learns how to speak again,
and so then he has to teach theother guy how to be a zombie
that can speak.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
Yeah, it was the same joke.
They just used it twice.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
I suppose so.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
Surprisingly, continuing returns.
So what's interesting issomething I haven't seen
explored much.
I'm curious your thoughtsShould more zombie movies take
place in the past?
Because I've literally watcheda movie and I do not remember
what it was called or where Iwatched it, and it was subtitled
Late at Night, but it wasliterally about a Nazi zombie
experiment and then they had toblow up this nuclear plant that

(36:14):
was making Nazi zombies.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
I don't know if it's the movie I'm thinking of, but
for when D-Day happened to WorldWar II, there was apparently
scouts that went ahead to tryand destroy radar towers, and so

(36:42):
this movie is called Overlord,and it's about the scouts that
go ahead and destroy the radiotowers.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, this is the movie.
This is the movie.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
One of the radio towers is just like filled with
zombie experiments.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
Overlord 2018, that's the one that's wild.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
Yeah, me and my buddy went to go see it in theaters.
We thought we were in for justa World War II movie and then
suddenly it was about zombiesyou know that's the best way you
could have experienced that,that's like the intended
strategy is you're not aware,because, like Nazi, zombies are
just a great thing to kill andalso one of the more likely
groups to make zombies.

(37:24):
Definitely, but I did google itand there's at least 10 Nazi and
also one of the more likelygroups to make zombies
definitely but I did google itand there's at least 10 Nazi
zombie movies.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
Apparently they're a popular subgenre.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
I mean.
So zombies are already, youknow, mookable mooks, but if you
have them being Nazis A itgives a reason for them to exist
, and and B it makes them evenmore killable.
It's like oh yeah, everyoneagrees that Nazis were bad.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
Oh yeah, no ethical dilemma here.
But I was kind of thinking ifyou were to make a zombie movie.
Now part of me wants to be like, oh man, do I just set a zombie
movie in colonial England orsomething?
Do I go Victorian zombies justto make them harder to kill?
Because you watch Resident Evilor World War Z and you're like,

(38:13):
yeah, now we have planes thatare going at Mach 7, dropping
iron magnesium dust to createheat lasers across the land to
scorch them.
Yeah, zombies are a little scarywhen you can send in drones to
kill them.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
Right.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
You know what?
Let's make this interesting.
Pitch to me your zombie movie.
You have five minutes Right now.
Just pitch me a zombie moviefor a million dollars, Go.
Pitch you a zombie movie, yeahright off the top of your head.
When is Carl's zombie movie?
You can get the money here.
Let's Shark Tank this.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
Yeah, right off the top of your head.
What is Carl's zombie movie?
You, uh, but the idea of, like,there's like zombie children
and then, like you know, you'regoing around killing zombies and
then it's like a child but thenlike zombie, like, uh, I, I
think that would be I'm justkind of a fan of the zombies to

(39:20):
get more intelligent, uh, andlearn over time.
And then the idea that, uh,like, maybe a zombie takes over
the very drones you've beentalking about and starts
torching the humans.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
See, that's pretty great.
Like slowly developing zombiesis a pretty good twist.
Like I was alluding to, I'dprobably go like Ip man period
peace, martial arts movie, butzombies.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
Oh, I love all of the Ip man movies.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
The idea like you have to, like jackie chan, fight
these zombies.
Know how much harder zombiesare to fight when your weapon is
a flintlock pistol in yourfists and if they bite you,
you're a zombie because, like,I'd be going so far to those
b-movie vibes.
It's insane because, like youcould do a good horror zombie
movie but part of me is like, ohman, I would go so pulp with

(40:08):
these movies.
It'd be insane.
Or just go 1-1.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
Zombie magic cards 1-1 zombie magic cards.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
Well, it's like in D&D and magic zombies are just
your 1-1 mooks.
But like one thing I enjoydoing in D&D is weird things to
zombies like zombie beholders.
I really enjoy having the doofyzombie like the zombie beholder
poking the ground with a stickand then just collapsing when
they're hit, like I enjoyzombies being laughably bad in

(40:42):
D&D.
Right, right, until there'slike an ocean of of them.
And then suddenly the zombieT-Rex is vomiting more zombies
at you.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
The zombie T-Rex.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
The zombie T-Rex vomits more zombies.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
As a little aside, I was playing a campaign once One
of our players.
They became undead.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
I did that too in my current campaign.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
They made a deal with a hag, and the hag just killed
them, so they'd be immortal.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
But the undead T-Rex that vomits more zombies.
He doesn't gain health byeating zombies, he gains health
by eating undead and there is nosave against the undead T-Rex
eating an undead to regainhealth.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
But I can't help it.
I have to give them a savingsthrow.
Like I feel bad.
Insta-killing players, I'd haveto be like you get disadvantage
because it Insta-kills zombiesand I tell them it Insta-kills
zombies so I'm giving themdisadvantage.
So I look like I'm a benevolentoverlord who isn't sicking a
zombie.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
T-Rex on them.
Well, I mean, fortunately we'vehad to escape before the zombie
T-Rex was able to devour ourally.
But this is like Wow, zombieT-Rex, You're definitely right,

(42:11):
the humanoid zombies are Well.
Well, they're kind of boring uh, but like uh pet cemetery, yep,
the pet cemetery, like the petzombies or just weird zombies of
different uh species.
It's like, well, it's like.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
Well, it's like.
Resident Evil is like yeah, anyanimal becomes horrifying super
mutant.
Last of Us is like oh yeahanything becomes horrifying
clicker, tentacle, murder,monster, but like I don't know.
What do you think?
So the interesting thing aboutzombies to me is that there's
just so many humans that yourzombie army is huge.

(42:45):
I make the joke.
humans, that your zombie army ishuge, I make the joke that in a
zombie apocalypse I'd go backto saskatchewan because the
population some of those smalltowns are small enough I could
actually feasibly kill all thezombies and they ain't moving in
minus 50.
It's physically impossible,right, right.
So that's my strategy is to goto the worst place I can think
of northern Northern Canada andjust pick them off like one at a

(43:06):
time.
But like I don't know, likewhen you start doing zombie
animals, it's ironic becauseit's like you don't have those
numbers anymore, unless it'slike zombie pigeons or zombie
raccoons.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
It's like a zombie tiger, isn't?

Speaker 1 (43:22):
actually that much scarier than a regular tiger,
because it's still a tiger.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
I don't know if I've seen any zombie pigeons.
Alfred Hitchcock's the Birds,that's just a peak movie in
general.
Or a pack movie, but they'reliterally just birds.
Yeah, I mean, obviously they'reinfected with some sort of rage
virus, but it doesn't reallymake them zombies.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
That's fair.
But to drop this up our zombiediscussion a bit, because we've
went over zombie movies, comedy,serious, we've gone over
affected magic.
My pitch to you is because Ienjoy throwing you on the spot
this episode.
What is your new idea of how tomake a new kind of zombie?

Speaker 2 (44:02):
How are you making your zombies?

Speaker 1 (44:04):
Yeah, some new idea to make zombies.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
Oof, I mean that's, that's rough, okay, so obviously
they have to be dead, and Imean so.
The zombie virus is kind ofscience, but if you resurrect

(44:29):
someone or something throughscience, they become more of a
Frankenstein's monster and notactually a zombie per se.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
Well, it's interesting, the last of us
spores were a really good onebecause they're like oh you look
to scary nature.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
Oh yeah, it was in the wheat.
So anybody who ate the wheatand then like, ended up getting
infected, and that's definitelya good one, I mean.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
One Piece did the a guy steals your shadow and now
you're a zombie and like I wantto go like.
It's like nanomachine isfunctionally the same as as
infected like the borger zombiesfor all intents and purposes,
which should be fair.
I kind of like techno zombiesI'm gonna be real like the idea
that, like some robot, hive mindis just mechanically putting

(45:21):
parts into you until you'reliterally a drone well, okay.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
So have you ever seen , uh or read the story cell?
Uh, sounds vague.
Uh, john cusack starred in themovie.
I don't remember exactly whenthe movie came out.
Uh had really bad cgi.
But basically, uh, some sort ofevent happens and anybody who
is on their cell phone, uh they.

(45:47):
There's a, a frequency thatcell phone plays and it turns
them into mindless zombies.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
Accurate to real life .

Speaker 2 (45:54):
Well, not exactly mindless zombies.
They're like ravenous zombies,so they just like go around like
ripping people apart.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
Does the same thing.

Speaker 2 (46:02):
Right, um.
And then it's the story aboutthis father, played by john
cusack uh, who's trying to?
Who believes, uh, against allodds, that his son made it to a
safe space.
And so then he's trying to getto the safe space and he ends up
actually becoming one of thezombies, because the zombies
evolved to be able to emit the,the sound, themselves, to infect

(46:26):
more people.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
So is this a zombie?
Where in the Gundam NT moviethey just kind of took a new
type, disassembled them, pulledtheir brain out and put it as a
black box in a mobile suit, likeyou're a zombie if your soul
gets ripped out and you're putin a suit of armor Edward
Alphonse style.
I know the Barry the Chopperone where they did the reverse
was Barry the Chopper's humanbody was absolutely a zombie.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know if that animated,animating an inanimate object is
not really a zombie.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Well it's more like a person's dead, and then you
force them to fight for youanyway and they don't have a
personality left and they justkind of go feral because.
I think the feralization ispart of the zombie nature.
I definitely agree, like you say, the idea of zombies that grow
in intelligence is interesting,but the majority of them would

(47:27):
be more feral than intelligenceit's like hollows are actually
pretty close to zombies whenthey were at the start of Bleach
, or they just attacked otherghosts to make like hollows are
actually pretty close to zombieswhen they were at the start of
bleach, or they just attackedother ghosts to make more
hollows, but it's like they gottoo intelligent.
And he's like you know what?
I need more swords, people.
I'm like.
But cool lizard tuning forksquid monster, no, no, we need
more swordsmen and it's like jjk, like the flesh puppet things

(47:54):
he was making were prettyzombies.
Like most curses weren't zombies, but the one that dude guy
Makito was making weredefinitely zombies.
There's so much like would-behorror manga out there where
it's like yeah, there's going tobe some kind of zombie in this.
You need your zombies byfederal law out there where it's

(48:18):
like yeah, there's going to besome kind of zombie in this.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
You need your zombies by federal law.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
Hmm Well, I'm also partial to like capitalism's
debt zombies where, like you,die and your body's reanimated
until your debt's paid off.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
Ooh, yeah, okay, I mean, that's pretty out there.
I don't know how do you createa zombie in a new way?
I don't know.
But the idea of a zombieworkforce, you know, it's like
you send people to the gulag towork until they die, and then,

(48:53):
after they die, it's like well,they can gulag to work until
they die, and then, after theydie, it's like well, they can
just keep working as a zombieuntil they actually rot and fall
apart, which seems legit and Ithink with that are we ready to
move on to our random questionor do you have any closing
meandering zombie thoughts uh,no, I don't have any closing
meandering zombie thoughts.

(49:15):
What I do have while you lookfor your random question I have
a list of them today, but youcan ask your question.
Okay, okay, I actually sent youa timed message to show up when
we were supposed to starttalking and then you never read
it, which makes me a little sad,but anyways, I'm going to read

(49:37):
it verbatim.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
It's a little bit wordy, but the text goes like
this you know why we might wantto do our podcast right Like
specifically.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
So it doesn't make background noise.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
I'm just saying your accusation that, oh, I set this
time message to go exactly whilewe were talking.
Why didn't you see?

Speaker 2 (49:52):
it.
Not while we were talking, notwhile we were talking, it was
7.30 my time, which is when weusually meet up.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
At 7.30 my time.
I put mute on my phone Like twominutes before it started.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
Okay, okay.
Anyways, the question goes likethis you have the ability to
teleport without restrictionParentheses.
If there is a safe space at thedestination, your power will
put you there, but you can killyourself if there are no safe
spaces at the destination.
But you leave behind acardboard cutout of yourself,

(50:29):
posed exactly how you were whenyou teleported straight on
relative to your face.
Does this change how you werewhen you teleported straight on
relative to your face?
Does this change?

Speaker 1 (50:37):
how you use your powers.
Yes, so first off the cardboardcutout part.
Perfect, wouldn't change that.
Glad that's part of my power.
I'm happy for that.
That's just great.
The main thing is setting upthose safe spaces where it's
like there has to be a safespace at the destination.
But I basically need to createguaranteed safe spaces and the

(51:01):
way I see it, there's certainlike rooms and buildings that
will pretty much always have thespare space to accommodate a
person Because there's no reason.
the entire thing would bedangerous.
So I teleport to so manyrooftops.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
Yeah, okay, rooftops are pretty safe.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
And like gardens and things.
If I'm teleporting behind theschool to get there early to
skip my commute, that's it.
My destination is behind theschool, which means if it puts
me 10 minutes away from my goal,that's great.
So for my teleport I'mdeliberately aiming for parks
and things.

(51:38):
Wide open spaces yeah so I'mnever teleporting inside a
building.
That's just a gamble, for noreason.
I'm definitely like soccerfields.
There's no version of realitywhere the entire soccer field
doesn't have a human-shapedspace in it.
So that's my main thing is I'mgoing on reality where the
entire soccer field doesn't havea human-shaped space in it.
So like that's my main thing isI'm like going on walks to map

(51:58):
my teleport safe spaces.
So it's like, yeah, no matterwhat happens, like it could be a
lightning storm, but there'llbe at least five square feet of
Richard space, but never insidea building, never in a plane,
and the amount of commute andmoney it saves me is amazing.
Never in a plane, and theamount of commute and money it
saves me is amazing.
Okay, but I mean like thecardboard cutout.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
No one will ever believe me you teleport from
home to school, right and nowthere's just a cardboard cutout
of you standing there yeah, ifyou met my apartment, it just
blends in with the othercardboard.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
It's fine, I just break it down and put it out of
you standing there.
Yeah, if you met my apartment,it just blends in with the other
cardboard.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
It's fine, I just break it down and put it out, so
I'll throw your cardboardcutouts into recycling.
Yeah, every time.
What about when you teleporthome from school?
Now you have a cardboard cutoutof yourself standing in the
school, wherever you were whenyou teleported?

Speaker 1 (52:47):
No, I have a cardboard cutout standing in
this open field Deeply confusingpeople.
Like that's the thing is.
No one's going to think Richardteleported.
People are going to think whois making these giant cardboard
cutouts of Richard and puttingthem in the fields?
And no one sees me printingthem or making them or bringing
them with me.
And there's just cardboardcutouts and the thing about them

(53:10):
being in a field the wind willknock them over the rain and
they're biodegradable, soeventually, like Ooh fair, fair.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
I did design an eco-friendly power.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
So it works out in such an elegant way that I'm
just leaving cardboard cutoutsplaces to go with the recycling
or, better yet, being craftedinto Miko scratchers, like if I
can find a good way to breakdown that cardboard and roll it
up into Miko scratchers.
But it just makes my powerbetter Because people are
thinking I'm doing a dumb magictrick, right, like if I just
teleport, eventually the CIAwill catch on to me.

(53:40):
But if there's just aRichard-shaped cardboard cutout
in my exact pose in the middleof the field and then the wind
blows and it falls over and I'mgone, people are like he is such
a good magician, no one's gonnathink I'm actually teleporting
home and that's the thing is I'mlike teleporting to like the
park two blocks from my house.
So people would just be like, oh, richard's in a park and the

(54:01):
one person who would like see meoperate out of nowhere because
it's such a large empty space.
They'd be like what, where thehell did you come from?
And then, if I see someone seeme.
I do it again and then just seea cardboard cuddle where I was
and they're just impressed.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
Where did this cardboard cuddle come from?
I swear it was a real person aminute ago, yeah like it just
messes with people.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
better Like no.
I think that's a better versionof teleport, because regular
teleport you can still teleportand get a rebar stuck through
your foot.
But since I know this is how itworks and it always finds me a
safe space at my destination, aslong as I'm vague about my
destination, I have hacked yoursystem, sir.
Like, if I'm like NorthBrampton, find me a safe space
in North Brampton, 20 minuteswithin range of my house.

(54:44):
I'm good.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
Well, yeah, I mean.
The main thing is that the ideais that there's no restrictions
, not even restrictions onletting you kill yourself by
teleporting to five feet underthe ground, and then you
apparate and you're justcompletely crushed by dirt.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
Right.
But I'm like no, no, I've madethese safe spaces specifically,
or I'm just super vague.
I'm going to just teleport toSaskatoon.
And you get a call and it'slike where are you?
I'm like somewhere safe inSaskatoon, which is weird
because I don't know if it letme in the city proper.
The setup for that joke wasworth it, but same question back

(55:28):
to you.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
Would it change how I use my powers?

Speaker 1 (55:35):
I'm like free cardboard infinite wealth.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
The biggest thing about it is that it kind of
stops you from using it forsomething stealthy.
You can't teleport into a bankvault and then take all the
money and teleport out, becausethey'll be like you absolutely
can't.

Speaker 1 (56:01):
So I'm going to give my Death Note rant.
So I've probably given this onstream before, I don't know.
Stop me if I've talked aboutthe Death Note rant.
The only thing that's got himcaught using the Death Note is
that he was paranoid about beingcaught using the death note.
Is that he was paranoid aboutbeing caught using the death
note?
Because if he just blatantlyused a magic notebook to kill
people, no one would everrealize it, right, like?

(56:22):
There's a bit where he's like Igot a secret drawer with a false
bottom that if you open thedrawer without putting the pen
in the false bottom to break thecircuit, my apartment breaks
into flames.
That's super suspicious, right,super suspicious.
Now, flames that's supersuspicious, right, super
suspicious.
Now if you're a forensicsstudent and you just on your
desk have a book labeled deathnote and you look at the writing
you've been writing down whenpeople are dying, that's less

(56:43):
suspicious.
You're not gonna think thisnotebook is magic.
And if you put like a regularbook jacket on it and it just
says lights notebook, it's justa notebook where you're writing
down names of people who diedand you're just some random
person like the.
Thing that made him suspiciouswas doing things like being
suspicious like he's like oh, Ineed to make sure everyone dies,

(57:05):
so they know they're doing it.
No, never use the same deathtwice.
If you just put bees andsomeone stung to death, you're
fine.
So if I just teleport into abank vault right, steal the
money and then teleport out andleave a cardboard cutout of
myself, what are the policegoing to do?
They don't know what I looklike.
This is just some random person.
I'm pretty famous too.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
Like no one's going to.
Maybe they're going to Google,search your face and they'll
actually find you.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Our facial recognition technology isn't
actually real, like we don'tactually live in CIA, right?
You can't actually just havethe bank run an image search to
see who ran into the bank, tofind who robbed it, like?

Speaker 2 (57:48):
I beg to differ.
You can definitely Google Lensa person.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
You could try but like okay, this cardboard cutout
shows that it looks like indieauthor Richard Kivas.
What are you accusing me of?
Putting a cardboard cutout inyour bank vault how?
Last time I checked our legalsystems, you have to prove I did
it.
I don't have to prove I didn'tdo it.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
That's, that's true, and I, to prove I didn't do it,
that's true, and I don't know ifthat would be grounds to get
your fingerprints or not.
Hopefully you didn't leavebehind any hairs or any other
evidence.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
Even if I did, it'd be like proving I'm the one who
did.
It would be nearly impossiblebecause I have a magic teleport
pattern that makes cardboardcutouts apparate.
Good luck.
Also because it's an exactcardboard cutout of me and it's
cardboard.
If I'm wearing a costume, theycan't take the costume off the
cutout, can they Fair?

(58:41):
Enough, I just teleport in as astormtrooper grab a brick of
gold, teleport out and there'sjust this cardboard cutout of a
stormtrooper in there andthey're down a gold bar.
What are you going to do?

Speaker 2 (58:57):
Which is so much funnier if I'm in a Yeti
conversation.
Sorry, you want to changetopics because this is fun no,
no, no, I'm just trying to thinkabout if, like, because the
main thing is I'm not really, Iwouldn't really want to just
like go to a park to teleporthome.
I just want to teleport homewherever I happen to be.

Speaker 1 (59:15):
That's because you don't commute.
If you commuted, everywhere youwent, you'd be grateful to
teleport to a park.
I spend an hour and a half totwo hours each way in transit
every day.
Yeah, no, if I can get within a30-minute walk of my
destination.
Amazing it every day.
Yeah, no, if I can get within a30-minute walk of my

(59:37):
destination.

Speaker 2 (59:37):
amazing, I think I would actually use my
teleportation power to recreatethe Last Supper.
I would just pose in differentways and then put all my
cardboard cutouts together as atableau.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
I'm just trying to figure out how I can like
infinite money.
This because, like, if I poseright, I can just assemble
cardboard boxes by teleportingfour times and just make
infinite cardboard, like I'vejust solved the softwood lumber
crisis.
Unless every time I teleportit's like assembling the
cardboard from somewhere and I'mjust like molecularly

(01:00:15):
rearranging nearby matter intocardboard, in which case that
can get scary.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
But then I can kill my enemy by teleporting away and
turning them into cardboard.
There's no restriction on theteleporting power, so I assume
it just conjures the cardboardout of a parallel dimension or
something.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
I love the idea that it's literally disassembling the
grass I'm standing on, so it'sjust dead grass and a cardboard
cutout.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
Anyways on to the actual random question.
Or did you get too involved inmy question to actually find one
.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
No, we got an actual, random one.
This one is weird.
Sometimes our fans communicatewith one specific type of fruit.
What fruit would it be, andwhat deep philosophical question
would you ask it?
Root and you have to ask it adeep philosophical question a
deep philosophical question whatsheesh?

(01:01:09):
I didn't write this randomquestion, so for me it'd be
pomegranate and I would ask itwith complete seriousness.
I didn't write this randomquestion, so for me it'd be
pomegranate and I would ask itwith complete seriousness.
If someone takes a bite of theoutside of a pomegranate and
tries to eat the round of theskin, are you still a fruit?

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
It's like if the seed is an edible part of the
pomegranate.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
Are you still a fruit ?

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
I was trying to work this into like a ship of theseus
question are you the sum ofyour parts, or pretty much, is
that?

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
if, basically, is a single pomegranate seed its own
being?

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
that would be a deep philosophical question.
I mean, I was going to go withthe durian fruit like the super
smelly one and then just like,straightforward, what's the
point of your life?

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
That's rough, buddy.
I do think the fruit would belike.
The stench helps me survive.
But the humans have adaptedLike vermin.
The number of things we'veeaten out of stubbornness, like
spicy.
The fact that we like spicy isjust nature being mad at us.
But with that, thank youeveryone for tuning in to Deep

(01:02:31):
Space and Dragons Talk Zombies.
Thank you for submitting yourweird theme drive-in question.
We also got a couple otherweird questions, but I'm going
to save those for a later date.

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
Alright.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
Try not to become a zombie or the infected or a
spore monster, unless you reallywant to.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
We're not the bosses yeah, if you want to become a
spore monster, power to you, butplease, please, don't eat me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
But do make sure to go out and vote.
Bye, Bye.
That's all the politics you gotto talk because you picked an
interesting topic and got rightinto it.
You got denied.
You got denied your boringpolitics talk, which is super
topical giving America's busycoup d'etat right now.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Well, I think I still have one more episode before
they actually go to vote.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
I mean, they're zombies, so hopefully they can
be coaxed in the correctdirection.
So one of the random questionswe got was if you discover a
portal to a world where puns arethe only form of communication,
what's the first pun you woulduse to introduce yourself?
Mystery friend.
One of my friends who gotreally into our podcast sent me

(01:03:40):
a couple of these and I'm likethese are good.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
Mystery friend.
Like you don't know who theyare, or I don't know who they
are.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
I have no idea who sent this in, but they must know
me if they're asking me aboutpun.