Episode 97: Prequel Pitfalls and Geometrical Strategy Games, including Triangles, but sadly no Rhombuses

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Could a prequel really spoil your favorite series or enhance it in unexpected ways? Join us as Richard, claiming his comedic superpowers, and Karl, steadfast in his ancient wisdom, navigate the quirky universe of "Richard and Karl Present Deep Space and Dragons." We share our thoughts on problematic narrative tropes, using "Dexter" and its prequel "Original Sin" as our case study. From there, the discussion morphs into a critique of storytelling techniques across various shows, including the moral dilemmas in "Hunter x Hunter" and the complex character alignments in "Gundam." We also ponder the potential pitfalls in the world of TV apps and streaming—because who hasn't been frustrated by a buffering circle at the worst possible moment?

Our love for strategy games takes the spotlight next as we explore the addictive allure of grid-based gameplay. We marvel at the unique mechanics of series like Disgaea and Fire Emblem, while also critiquing games that veer too close to gacha territory without the thrill of the machine. The discussion dances from the potential transformation of classic games into modern freemium models to the surprising social aspects of co-op gameplay in titles like Wargroove. Even as we game on, we can't help but contemplate starting a book club focused on indie literature, celebrating the creativity and depth found in Canadian works and the potential for unique literary adventures.

Also what if it rained Nic Cages? Funny or apocalyptic? 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good evening.
Yes, I have made it evening, Ihave moved the sun and welcome
to Richard and Carl present DeepSpace and Dragons.
I'm Richard, with NewfoundPowers.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
And I am Carl, with the same powers that I found
millennia ago.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Excellent, and this is our podcast, where we talk
about stuff and, based on ourviewing metrics, we have no idea
what people vibe with and whatthey don't.
So we're just going to talk atyou and, since you've made it
this far, kudos.
So what's new in the Carlverse?
Is it an unrelated movie review?

Speaker 2 (00:34):
No, not an unrelated movie review.
If our listeners knew you asVlad, I would call this segment
Vlad's Vindication.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Actually, to be fair, they now know me as Vlad,
because everything we say ispublic record on the internet
and we do in fact get Vlad'sVindication, which is a sick
segment.
Could you imagine if we had thebudget for an actual late night
show?

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Ah, that'd be wild, okay so last week I was talking
about Dexter, which is a showthat you absolutely do not care
about because you've never seenit, or anything.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yeah, fair enough.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
But the reason I was talking about Dexter is because
my fiancé and I had startedwatching the prequel show
Original Sin and, as you say,most prequels don't really gain
anything from being a prequel.
They're better off just beingtheir own unique show.
So firstly, minor update I'vealso been reading the first book

(01:39):
in the series called DarklyDreaming Dexter.
The series called DarklyDreaming Dexter and it goes over
to this point where Dexter'sadopted father is being drugged
by a nurse who is also a serial,happens to be a serial killer
and kills her patients byover-doping them,

(02:01):
over-medicating them.
I guess is more so.
That came straight from thebook, which I thought was
actually pretty interesting.
But between last week and thisweek the show managed to do two
things which made me lose faith.
Last week I was optimistic,this week I'm not.
Ha, the first thing is kind ofa minor uh annoyance, um, but

(02:28):
television shows and moviesoften have a villain who will
remove their mask for theaudience oh, yeah, yeah, oh man,
our pals at tv tropes.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
We know there has to be a name for that right Like oh
, the number of times I've seenthis.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's the kind of thing you don't
really notice until it's beenpointed out.
But once it's been pointed outto you it almost breaks the
suspension of disbelief.
So the villain first off, hewas alluded to be this police
captain.
He was alluded to be thispolice captain, and then the
show felt this week that theyneeded to outright confirm that

(03:09):
he was in fact the villain byhaving him go into the room with
the child that had beenkidnapped.
And then he takes one of thechild's possessions and then,
for some reason, he stands up,the kid's asleep, because he's
been had fed like sleepingmedicine.
So the kid's asleep, and forsome reason, uh, the police

(03:33):
captain just like yeah, I'm justgoing to take off my mask.
Who am I taking off for?
Why did I have it on the firstplace?
No, this is for the audience.
The audience needs to know forsure.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
So needs to know for sure.
So that trope is funny becausewhen you do it in front of
another character it's just dumb, but I have seen it done good
before.
So to go to hunter, hunter ofall things, there's a bit where
it's like a sock is one of thespiders and he has a shower and
in the shower he takes off histemporary fake spider tattoo and
applies a new one and I'm like,yeah, you can show the audience
your face below the mask ifthey're like going to bed or

(04:07):
going into the shower orsomething Right, like in a
situation where it would likeChar.
The first time you see CharAznable take off his mask is
he's literally man.
Original Gundam had like aninsane number of gratuitous sex
scenes Sorry, shower scenes for1970s, not sex scenes that I'm
aware of.
But yeah, like the trope of letthe audience in on it because,

(04:31):
ooh, I get that extra layer ofsuspense is finally, don't have
a character out their entireevil plan by doing it.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
Well, so I mean the villain does out his evil plan
by doing it.
He is alone in the room withthe kidnapped child, who happens
to actually be his son, becausethat's part of the twist.
I don't know exactly what hisevil plan is.
I think he's just trying tocreate a vendetta against the
cartel, but it was just I brokemy suspension of disbelief a

(05:03):
little bit that it's like hetook his mask off for the
audience.
Why right?

Speaker 1 (05:10):
but like you see what I mean, where I guess a writing
device, like if you have Obitobeing all emo and he takes his
mask off in front of Rin's graveso we can see his messed up
face.
It's a little bit different,because then it's like cinematic
versus, it's like it's in thedescription instead of being in
the prose or dialogue hmm, uh,but the second, more egregious

(05:35):
thing that it did that.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
This is where I kind of actually am losing hope.
Um, the first season ofVirginal Dexter, uh, and also
the first book of VirginalDexter, and also the first book,
revolves around Dexterdiscovering that he has an older
brother who also witnessed themurder of their mother.
So they're both psychopaths orsociopaths.

(05:59):
Not psychopaths, well, I mean,they're kind of psychopaths
because they both end up beingserial killers, but one ends up
having a moral code.
Lawful evil for sure.
Dexter is straight lawful evilbecause he has a moral code.
It just definitely involveskilling people, anyways.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
I still remember when a player of mine burned down a
bar and declared it was lawfulgood because that's the society
they're from, and I realizedthat alignment grids don't work
anymore.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
Anyways.
But so Dexter discovers that hehas an older brother and the
older brother is leaving himcryptic messages in the forms of
dead bodies.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
You know, my.
Dramonic Backstory actuallymellowed me out a lot.
Please continue.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
Anyways.
So the whole first season iskind of like he doesn't know,
he's forgotten that he has anolder brother and he's trying to
solve this serial killer murder.
That's there.
They're clearly leaving himspecifically messages.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
Pause for a moment.
Imagine just being able toforget you have an older brother
.
Just imagine that for a second.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Well, in context, dexter's mom was hacked up with
a chainsaw in a shippingcontainer and then the two
children were just left sittingthere in pools of blood from all
the other people who had alsobeen hacked up with a chainsaw
in a shipping container.
Uh, and then the two childrenwere like just left sitting
there in pools of blood from allthe other people who had also
been hacked up with chainsaws.
It's pretty gruesome uh anyway,I'm just saying there's some
days where I'm like that wouldbe convenient levels of

(07:36):
repression but the point of thematter is that they dedicate a
whole season and they make itvery clear that Dexter does not
remember he has an older brother.
Yeah, so in the prequel of thisepisode, the father Harry, he
is investigating these, theseries of murders.

(07:59):
Mostly it's been like streetworkers, so pizza delivery
drivers Got it.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
Mostly it's been like street workers, so pizza
delivery drivers Got it.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
In any event, they decide that those three murders
are the work of a serial killer.
And then they follow up on alead and, wouldn't you know it,
harry finds the older brother'spsychiatric file, because one of
the victims was a nurse at thepsychiatric hospital where the

(08:35):
brother went after the murder.
Um and Dexter can't find out,and the police force can't find

(08:59):
out that Harry has beensuppressing information about
this random, unrelated murder isanother serial killer that
happens to be the brother of ourmain character, which will also
be the main plot point of thefirst season of the main show oh
, that reminds me of a meme bit,where it's like someone goes
like yeah, it's like one in ahundred thousand people are
serial killers, and then theperson b goes well, I feel safe,

(09:21):
because what are the mathematicodds that we're both serial
killers?
In any event, the best way todescribe it is that they're
connecting too many dots and theplot line that they're setting
up is basically dead before iteven begins.

(09:41):
And I was just like, oh man, Ihad such high hopes because this
police captain kidnapping hisown son so that he could exact
revenge on the cartel, orwhatever his plan actually is.
That was an interesting twistthat I didn't see coming, and I
was hopeful that the series wasgoing to be much more

(10:02):
interesting, and then actuallyno, they're just connecting too
many dots and everyone has meteach other.
I'm like 99% sure that Dexterand his older brother, brian,
are going to meet each otherface-to-face in this season and
not realize it.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Well, it reminds me of the show Gotham, which had
this problem.
When you use an IP IP you needto show off the established
characters.
So in Gotham it's like oh yeah,kid, Bruce Wayne met every
future Batman villain and I'mlike that is literally insane.
None of them have names yet,but he met all of them and it's

(10:44):
like that seems impossible.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
So I wouldn't say that Dexter Original Sin has
gone quite that far off the deepend, but it's teetering on the
edge of, like I say, connectingtoo many dots that don't have
any payoff.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
To be fair, the only group that believes they're
allowed to discriminate based onthe origin of people's birth
are astrologists and they loveconnecting dots for no reason.
It's something that was buggingme lately where I'm like you
take something an astrologistsays like ooh, you better not

(11:26):
date a Gemini and you replacethat with any diversity
statement whatsoever and that'sa terrible person, like anyone
who's?
Openly an astrologist.
You shouldn't hang out withopenly an astrologist because
they'll be like can't date aGemini.
I'm like, imagine if you used acolor, any color, instead of the
word Gemini there.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
Anyways, but so I mean that ended up being a
little bit longer than I hoped.
But there you go Vlad'sVindication.
This prequel series has taken abad turn.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
I mean, you hit it at a clean ten minutes and we
talked more about tropes than wedid about See.
The thing about this Flashmovie reviews is it's you
reviewing a movie I haven't seenout of nowhere, which means we
can't really banter about it,right?
So like if you phrase it inlike oh don't you hate XYZ,
trope boom, we have banter.

(12:22):
Yes, yes, I'm giving youdirector notes mid-episode.
I'm a terrible person.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
I regret nothing about this chain of events well,
see, the other thing that's newwith me, which is uh more
interesting and up your alley uh, is that I've been watching the
daily life of the immortal kingit's so good, it is
unreasonably good.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Oh, next week, next week, we could do that episode
unreasonably good.
It has my favorite three jokesof all time oh you'll get there
when you get there okay, um,well, the I.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
I feel like I did myself a disservice for the
first season because I wascasting it from my phone onto my
TV, which seems like the rightchoice.
Except the Android TVCrunchyroll app is just inferior
to the to the Android phone app.

(13:23):
Yeah, yeah, it is, you're notwrong.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
So the Android phone app.
Yeah, yeah it is, you're notwrong.

Speaker 2 (13:28):
So the TV app won't let you skip the intro and it
won't let you skip the credits.
I mean you can just manuallyskip over it, but it doesn't
have a clean button for it.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
I will say at one point in that show they do a
very good credits bit, but otherthan that it's.
I see your struggle.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
Well, my main thing is that for the entire first
season there may have been aftercredit scenes and from what
I've seen in the second season,these after credit scenes are
like additional jokes or payoffsfor things that happened in the
episode, or just littlesnippets of information, and
it's like I don't think I missedanything like truly valuable

(14:13):
but also.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
but I'm a little bit sad.
Yeah, Like I said, it has somesurprisingly good intro and
outro bits.
It works in once in a while.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
So yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
I unreasonably love that show Like unreasonably love
that show like unreasonably.
There's a bit where they make aray tracing joke and I just
could not, could not comprehend.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
They went that direction with it uh, at first I
didn't get the uh, the 30, 60joke such a good joke I've
knocked over 30 of our lamps.
What difference is 30 lampsgonna make?
And then he breaks the 30-60anyways.

(14:57):
So I mean, yeah, that's what'snew with me.
You get vindication twiceactually, cause you recommended
the show to me.
That's actually good.
And you told me Dexter OriginalSin was going to be a bland
prequel show and well, because Ican't make it more than a week
without throwing shade at Boruto.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
It's like sequels and prequels are usually owned by
the company and not created bythe artists and instead of going
to like good fanfic artists,they're like focus group made
and they miss that secret saucethat, like AI, can't replicate
the.
What is this about?
Right, if you made a prequel,you can do it, but it has to be

(15:38):
about something.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
Right.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
And it's hard to be about something when the story
hasn't happened yet, and theonly really good way you can
make a prequel is to followsomebody else who didn't do a
lot in the main show, so theirarc can happen off screen, right
right right for example, if youwere to watch Kenshin's
backstory as a prequel which Ikind of did weirdly, even though

(16:04):
it technically goes in theseries proper it was sick,
because that's a good story arc.
Also prequels.
Typically will only work if youdo a movie or a mini-arc.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
Right.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
JJK0 almost worked because we didn't know who Yuta
was.
It's like you did it in thechronological order, I did it in
the intended order and I don'tknow which one's better.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
Well, chronological order set my expectations for
what the show was vastlydifferent.
I think the way that it wasactually released is probably
better, because Yuta does solittle for so long.
I think the way that it wasactually released is probably
better because Yuta does solittle for so long and then when
he does introduce, he'ssuddenly a huge main character

(16:53):
and I think that placing hisstoryline MCU ass decision I've
ever heard, by the way, beinglike let's pull it.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
So what's more MCU than being like okay, iron Man's
the main character of thismovie, thor's the main character
of this one.
Now we're gonna do a CaptainAmerica movie where Iron Man's
the main character.
Like of all the MCU-assbullshit.
Pulling in characters becausethey're more popular from other
media to then get a little bigchunk of screen time in a
different piece of media.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
It's so bad.
When they do it so bad, don'tlike.
But yeah, I think that the waythat they released it
theatrically probably actuallyfits the arc better because they
, you know, introduced thecharacter and then he actually
has all of his important stuffwhere the way it was written.
They introduced the characterand then he's has all of his
important stuff where the way itwas written.
They introduced the characterand then he's just gone for like

(17:49):
100 chapters.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yup, like gone's dad.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
But I don't did I ask you what's new with you
thereard?

Speaker 1 (18:05):
I, uh, I think I rambled on about how you have
vindicated I mean, I prefer thatlike, yeah, it's just an hour
of me being praised for beingright, sign me up so.
So, other than like my normalactivities of going to writing
workshops of authors, like myextremely busy semester I've had
by going to all these writingworkshops with authors
da-da-da-da-da, my extremelybusy semester I've had by going

(18:27):
to all these writing workshopsand events and things.
So I keep having these littlesynergy moments this semester,
which have been fun.
So the science fiction scene inCanada, ontario, isn't actually
that many people.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
So I think I mentioned that like one of my
professors.
When I was doing slush pilereading, I read one of their
stories for a magazine they'dsent in before they were my
professor.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
So I did a reading in class today and I look at the
reading.
I'm like, oh, I know thisperson we've been chatting for
like the last two years, so Isend the message to be like,
look who worked their way into acurriculum.
And then the person's like, ohis so, and so teaching it.
I'm like, what is there?
Only like four people like Iwas so amused by this notion of

(19:18):
being like here's your readingsfor this class and maybe, like I
know who wrote these.
Now, ah, I'm, I'm going placesand just the novelty of it
amused me so much.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Because I'm like, oh, I'm starting to get to the
point where I know people, whoknow people, and it's forming a
circle, which is lovely.
So, between that and, like I ammildly concerned, I'm heading
towards burnout at the speed ofa cliff.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
Oh, cliffs, don't move that fast though.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
They do if you're tumbling towards them.
Actually, cliffs move very fast.
The Earth is not slow.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
I think it was.
I think my brother is the onewho pointed this out and I
worked it into that light novelI dropped on your desk where
it's like the Earth moving.
So if you teleport you're justnot on the earth like you gotta
account for that.
Good luck uh.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
Side note um, I theorize that time travel is
actually possible, uh, but ifyou keep your same coordinates,
I don't know what sort of uh,non-relativistic coordinate
system there might be in theuniverse, but the Earth will not
be where you are now a thousandyears ago.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
Right.
I find that to be a bit of atrip, so I decide to try a new
game that went on flash salebecause, despite being an author
, therefore broke, I'm like Ideserve this game.
So I was playing this game,triangle Strategy, which privets
into our main topic for today.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
Right, right so.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
Triangle Strategy is Fire Emblem by Square Enix in
the style of Octopath Travelers.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
Right.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
And I've been playing this game and really liking it.
It has a few mechanics I'venever seen before and I'm like
man is my favorite genre.
What is it?

(21:18):
I think they call it like.
SJRPG like strategy JRPG, gridbased JRPG is actually my
favorite genre of game, exceptonly like three of four of them
ever have been good Right, and Imean like series, not
individual games, because mostof them are just.
People like to put the wordtactics in front of a game and
then be like, oh, this doesn'thave to be as good as the thing
we're making a tactics of.
Like Persona 5 Tactics is likehey, we don't have to have this
well written because peoplealready bought the Kool-Aid.
It's the prequel problem, slashsequel problem.

(21:39):
If people already bought theKool-Aid, you don't have to sell
them Kool-Aid, do you?
But I have a completelyunrelated question for you that
has nothing to do with anything.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
How long does it take you to read a book?

Speaker 2 (21:53):
How long does it take me to read a book?
Yeah, in terms of hours, Ibelieve that Dracula took me
about six or seven hours.
That was a tough read becauseof the archaic language.
Jaws took me about five hoursand I can check how long I've

(22:20):
been reading Dexter.
I'm 64% done.
I don't see where it tells mehow long it'll tell me when I'm
done the book, how long I'vebeen reading it.
So, but I think I'm only atlike two hours for that one.
It's pretty easy read.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
The reason I bring this up is that as we blitz
through media content, I had anepiphany where it's like I read
a lot of Canadian lit and I'mlike we should start a book club
, like a deep space and dragonsbook club, where once a month we
both read the same book thentalk about it, which is
basically what we do.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
We can highlight more weirder indie things, because I
have a stack of books on mydesk and several of them I know
you would enjoy well, I mean ifI dedicated myself, yeah, I mean
five hours over the course of amonth, depending on, like I
said, if it's anything like BramStoker or Dracula.

(23:16):
I guess that's what we talkedabout that on In February
Canadian.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
Lit.
We're looking at like 60,000word novella type things.
Publishers are just like notnearly as aggressive as they
used to be Like.
I read Countess the other dayand it's like Let me pull this
up on my desk.
It is do-do-do-do-do Pagenumber.

(23:41):
Where are you Like 250 pages?

Speaker 2 (23:47):
Oh boy, yeah, Like in theory, that would only take me
roughly three hours.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah, because, like, because like modern, especially
speculative fiction, they'relike okay, we're gonna, we're
not gonna make you read dune.
We're not gonna do that becauseno one wants to publish dune,
because then they would have toread and edit dune.
Nobody's winning in thatexchange right but yeah, like,
because I mean like I don't know, like not really a new with me,

(24:14):
but with hypothetical, whichI'm not going to talk about too
long at length I'm trying to domore Canadian things, like read
more Canadian books, buy moreCanadian stuff.
My vengeance is supportinglocal business.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
Oh, that seems to be a lot of Canadians' vengeance
for the unnamed political issueswe're facing.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
Yeah, the one where, like, the person's arm was
definitely at a Nazi angle on astage If we were to bring up a
protractor, he failed the Nazitest.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
Okay, just out of curiosity, what is the angle
that causes you to fail?

Speaker 1 (24:52):
If you look at it and you think Hitler, that angle I
don't remember the exact angle,but it's like if it's above 70
and below 120 or something likeit's a decent chunk of the
protractor you just don't dothat Like.
If you go above that angle it'shail taxi and if you go below
that angle that's pet a dog.

(25:12):
If you're between petting a dogand hailing a taxi, you might
be doing the wrong hail.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
Anyways, I mean yeah, yeah, let's.
Let's let our viewers in on ourlisteners in on what we may or
may not end up doing.
Who knows, maybe, maybe let'sget the most viewership we've
ever had.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
I find that funny because it would have been such
a pre-episode conversation.
But I'm like, nah, nah, I'mjust name drop, count, just
check it out.
Good book, not a sponsor, justa fan.
But also back to the topic ofSRPGs besides my tangent, I'm
going to count that as part ofwhat's new with me.
You didn't put in a book review, so I took a full 15 minutes
and we're good.
So, anyway, which is your?

(25:53):
You didn't put in a book review, so I took a full 15 minutes
and we're good Anyway.
So which is your favoriteturn-based, grid-based strategy
game?
That's not SD Gundam GachaponWars, because we did an entire
episode on that.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
Dang it that is the best one.
Well, I mean, I think it wasDisgaea 5 that was for the DS.
I think they also made Disgaea 1for the DS maybe, actually
maybe, disgaea 1 would end upbeing my favorite.
I'd have to check that outbecause I really, really liked

(26:33):
Disgaea 5.
Pretty sure it liked Disgaea 5.
Pretty sure it was Disgaea 5anyways, because it has a lot of
the same spirit of GachaponWars.
I mean, you don't deploy unitsby capturing bases, but the fact
that you can pick up yourallies and throw them onto
ledges or try to plan how toexplode the little crystals.

(26:57):
I do love the total knowledge.
There's a lot of extra nuanceand mechanics that you don't
really find in any other series.
So Disgaea 5 is pretty high upthere.
It almost gets overwhelmingwith all the things that you can
do yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
So like one thing I noticed when I was going through
the sky of five, which I thinkI was on ps3, I don't know was
that like.
It's like each mission added anew mechanic.
They weren't small mechanicsright and I don't know if I ever
hit a point where it stopped,like the only thing I think I
like 100%.
It like the Disgaea 1 remakefor the DS and it had like six

(27:40):
endings One of my favorite bitsin gaming where you kill a
person and they come back as arobot-printy, which was
established as what happens tobad people.
I'm like that's a joke.
There's so many animes andshows that don't use that joke.
Dragon Ball used it once whereit's like if you're interacting
with spirit people and thensomeone dies and then they just

(28:01):
get back up, that's just such agood joke, like technically in
Bleach it would have beenamazing that just Chad dies in a
fight and then just gets backup.
It's like, oh yeah, right, he'sdead now.
And then just gets back up.
It's like, oh yeah, right, it'sdead now.
Same with JJK.
What if Sursur dies Shouldn't?

Speaker 2 (28:25):
he just get back up as a curse.
I think that's kind of thepoint, but I don't know how long
it takes for them to actuallybecome a curse after they die.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
Because it'd be hilarious if they kill Jojo and
then just ghost Jojo gets backup.
But I digress Disgaea.
I really enjoy that kind ofhumor and I also really enjoyed
their dumb Senate mechanic.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Ah yeah, where you try to get things passed by the
Senate and then if they don'tagree with you then you try and
beat them up.
But they're super powerful,tough baddies.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
So this Triangle Strategy game does something
kind of similar but different.
So it's more in the game.
It's like a Fire Emblem, butit's pretty Fire Emblem in tone.
But how it goes is for big plotdecisions.
Your party leader has decidedon democracy.
So the seven, like your seven,like highest ranked confidants,

(29:21):
each get a vote on what thestory branch you take.
But you get to talk to each oneand try and convince them to
change their vote based on, likelittle books and things you
found in the story to get newinformation, to try and convince
them.
So, the first one that happens,like my character's engaged
fiance is like I don't want togo back to my homeland.
They suck and then, anotherparty member is like I want to

(29:43):
go to their homeland, it's cool.
So I go to that person and belike actually you don't want to
go to her homeland becausethere's awesome warriors in this
other place.
Like, yeah, let's go fight theawesome warriors in this other
place.
Like, yeah, let's go fight theawesome warriors.
But I got that awesome warriorfun fact by talking to a random
bookshelf, okay, and I'm like,oh, so I don't pick the story
road, I have to like wheel anddeal.
And I kind of love that kind ofmechanic where it's like, yeah,

(30:07):
no, I have to convince my teamto do something because it like
builds a lot of character, youknow me, me I love when
mechanics and function Weavetogether, like when there's a
point to knowing the personalityof your party members.
Because, that actually hasStrategic value to it, although

(30:28):
Disgaea has kind of the oppositeproblem when, like Main
characters obviously should goon your team and make a
character.
Yeah, they're literally nothing.
Yeah, like SD.
Gundam you don't even pick whoyour commander is yeah, yeah, sd

(30:50):
Gundam.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
Well, so I mean SD Gundam against your.
So I mean SD Gundam, gachaponWars and, like I say, advanced
Wars.
They're very focused on thestrategy element and not so much
focused on the story element.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
Like to pivot from that a bit to Advanced Wars,
because Advanced Wars definitelyhas more of a story than SD
Gundam Gachapon Wars well, ithas more of a story, but that's
not really the focus of the game, that's for sure.
I was going to say, like thebig difference between the two
in that regard is picking yourcommander where.
I think SD Gundam, if we were toput out SD Gundam Gachapon Wars
2, I would definitely put in amechanic where you can pick your

(31:32):
commander and like theirsignature units would be cheaper
or they get some kind ofcommander power to make.
Like them play a littledifferent like.
Char all his red units wouldmove an extra square or
something that would be funnybecause it's like I do like it's
weird if I have you in the roomto like versus turn based

(31:53):
strategy games are sweet, butI've had this.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
I do like it's weird If.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
I have you in the room.
The like versus turn-basedstrategy games are sweet, but I
have had this.
What was it called Um War,something or other which is like
a medieval advanced wars?

Speaker 2 (32:06):
Wargroove.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
Yeah, but I haven't played it against anybody yet
because I don't know Like I feellike it's a hard sell.
But it might just be that I'mtoo busy to be like hey, you're
my friend, play this game withme, you don't have a choice.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
Well, I mean, if it has online, I think I might own
it.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
I'm not sure I think I have it on Xbox Game Pass
something or other.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
So yeah, cross-platform might not be a
thing.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
Xbox is pretty chill about cross-platforming.
Hmm, but I digress.
So, like between the two, whatdo you prefer?
Like the story-based one or theversus one?

Speaker 2 (32:51):
Um, well, let's see, I think, like I really really,
really enjoyed also um, I don'teven know what it was actually
called, but I think it was thefourth Fire Emblem that came out
for the Super Nintendo wasn'tactually released in English, so
I had to patch it, and what notoh, that's giving me nostalgia.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
I'm going to call that one Fire Emblem time skip.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yeah, yeah, because like you're going through and
then your main commander likedies and then there's a time
skip and you play as his kid andany of the characters that you
formed relationships withthrough the previous half, like
they have kids that inherittheir powers At the time.
That was a pretty interestingsystem that I'd never played

(33:44):
with before and I did.
I really, really enjoyed thestory elements, got really
attached to the characters andthen suddenly they're all dead
and I'm playing with theirdescendants.
It's like that was a twist Ididn't see coming.
And I guess a well-writtenstory is, or a very compelling
story is a great addition to agrid-based strategy game.

(34:10):
But again, when I look atAdvance Wars, it's not a
compelling story, it's justthese people are trying to take
over these territories.
Go, stop them.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
So it's kind of funny , like a spiritual successor to
that Fire Emblem was Fire EmblemAwakening on the 3DS, which I
have either in second or thirdplace in my best Fire Emblem of
all time rankings.
But, their twist on it was sothe story was a time travel-y
story and the idea was, once twopeople got high enough

(34:46):
friendship to be parents, theirkid would time travel back
because they became part of thesquad to help you through this
time travel plot.
Time travel back because therebecame part of the squad to like
help you through this timetravel plot, so you got to see
like people interact with theirfully grown descendants.
But I find it funny that, likethe fans put out a patch and
they called it the rainbow patch, because what they didn't like

(35:08):
was the idea that everycharacter by the design of the
game had to be straight tocreate offspring, right, so like
no, no, we could just have twocharacters, either gender, and
then they character by thedesign of the game had to be
straight to create offspring,right?
so like no, no, we could justhave two characters, either
gender, and then they maybe theyadopted, maybe they used magic,
who knows, don't think about ittoo much.
And I'm like that's aninteresting point, the
heteronormity of having thatmechanic, and I'm like you know,
I wouldn't be bothered at allif two men ended at the end of

(35:33):
it and then there was a timeskip and they had a kid.
I wouldn't actually think toquestion that.
Especially younger me would belike oh, how did this happen?
This is an affront against God.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
No, yeah, I mean, I definitely agree that.
It just wouldn't even cross mymind, until someone points it
out, that it's like oh, theymust be gay.
It's like oh, why does thatmatter?

Speaker 1 (36:02):
Or maybe they just pulled a good omens and just two
straight?
No, it could be a bad example.
They're actually gay, Like I'mtrying to think of one where,
just like, two straight guysadopt a child and raise it,
because that's a trope.
But I can't think of anyexamples off the top of my head.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
Well, I mean, Sven and Train are heterosexual life
partners.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
They don't exactly adopt a child, but they do have
the there's paperwork involvedby the end of it.
That is absolutely how thathappened.
All right, thanks for theexample.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
Black cat for the win .

Speaker 1 (36:36):
Oh man.
And then he just went on todraw smut for the rest of his
career because that paid better.
It's like the reverse of thepipeline you normally see, and
that's so funny to me.
It's like I wrote this awesomeaction series that did meh, so I
started doing increasinglysmutty things and that's my
full-time job now, and I'm likeoof supply and demand, or is
this what you always wanted todo?
Tough to say, but yeah, so likeone of my favorite games.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
Still, though, is Fire Emblem Three Houses.

Speaker 1 (37:04):
Because it's a game worth playing four times, which
is wild, because I don't finishthat many video games, so for me
to have deliberately wentthrough a game four times is
insane.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Right.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
Because of how the structure is.
You meet all the characters,all like I don't know 30
students, but you only meet theones that are in your class.
Right so it's like you gothrough and you're like yeah,
I'm raising my 10 squad membersand then you do the next
playthrough and they're the badguys.
You're like oh, now I feel badfor murdering poor Hubert.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
I know that he only had resting Snape face, but
actually was a good dude, right.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
So it's like the idea that like, hey, on your first
route you meet these charactersand on your second route you get
to choose if you spare ormurder these characters.
Add some interesting nuance forthe replay value of it.
So like I really like that one.
And then a newer one came out,firemomb, engaged and it's just
garbage and whoever made thatshould look at that.
They made three houses and theymade engaged and just I don't

(38:05):
know a tone like there's somesort of like ritual.
They needed you to purify theirnegative chi or something,
because the focus group is heavyon.
It was literally you got magicrings that summoned other famous
Fire Emblem characters.
I'm like this game feels like aGachapon game.

(38:26):
It doesn't have a Gachaponmachine, but it has that energy
and I hate it.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
Oh man, I don't know whether or not I love or hate
Gachapon, machine-style games.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
I understand them begrudgingly and it's ironic
that SD Gundam Gachapon Wars, ifit was released today, would be
a free game.
But when you beat missions youunlock treasure chests to then
spin the Gachapon machine to getyour unit.
Like that is so easy to turnthat into a freemium game?

(38:59):
It sure would.
I don't even know if you'dchange anything.
You would just be that you onlyget so many plays of each
difficulty a day and you canswipe your credit card to get
more.
Yeah, probably, just add newunits.
Three new units every month,charge, do the math, and it
costs you 500 to get them all.

(39:20):
So another series that has aton of the grid based games is
we got the other sd gundam games, which are just pure strategy
ones right, they're capped onthe ps2, but they've all been
pretty good.
We got super robot wars and Idon't know if you've ever played
a super robot wars game uh,I've seen you play a super robot

(39:42):
wars game.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
Um, I've seen you say play several actually, and they
do look a lot like a lot of fun.
Um, but as much as I do likegiant robots, they're pulling in
some probably popular in JapanIPs that I'm just like I don't
know.

Speaker 1 (40:04):
But they fixed this for you.
So one of my top video games ofall time, which maybe aged
poorly, I don't know.
So they made Super Robot Tizen,original generation one and two
for the game boy advance okaywhat happened is every super
robot wars.
They put in original charactersand original mechs to kind of
be like your protagonist andround out the roster, yada, yada

(40:24):
.
After 20 years of doing this,they realized they could just
make their own game with theoriginal stuff okay so they made
a game that's like a serioussuper robot story while
simultaneously being a parody ofsuper robot stories.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
You get to pick one or two characters.
You can either choose like edgemaverick, edgy guy in his edgy
mech, or you can pick kid whowas good at video game, which
turned out to be a governmentspy program to find robot pilots
with new type powers.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
And like it's like they managed to basically homage
all of the series that make itup without requiring any
knowledge, and it's justdelightful because, yeah, it's
just a complete story.
It's like the most Super RobotWars story imaginable.
It's like aliens invade ontheir alien asteroids, so the

(41:18):
Earth Federation and the EvilEarth Federation go to war and
betray people and thenoccasionally, demons from the
Hollow Earth come up and it'slike, yeah, this is peak writing
.
You put it like they have thespaceship with the giant drill
on it slam into a machine that'sshooting mini black holes at
you and I'm like they understandme.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
And they have the Fire Emblem.
Mechanics of your players gethigher support when you send
them out in squads.
You can move them around topilot whatever mech you want
them to, despite what the plottells you.
There's a character of TalkingCats that flies around and is
clearly inspired by Escaflownemech, who has no sense of
direction.
It's just good and it'sdesigned that both of them have

(42:02):
the two campaigns.
of which protagonist do youstart with?
And I think the only differenceis your protagonist gets an
upgraded suit, depending whichversion you go with and the
first ten missions are different.
Makes sense and grade suitdepending which version you go
with and, like the first 10missions are different makes
sense and they do my favoritething in those games where each
mission has a bonus objectiveand if you beat enough of them
you get the actual final stageokay but the game also like

(42:27):
scales with it.
So it's like the more secretobjectives you do, the harder it
gets.
But yeah, super robot ties anoriginal generation gameplay,
advance peak gaming somehowharder it gets.
But yeah, super Robot Ties and.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
Original Generation, Game Boy, Advance, Peak gaming
Somehow Well.
I mean, one of the nice thingsabout grid-based strategy games
is that they're a very specificart style.
Well, I guess not very specific, because Triangle Strategy and
Octopath Traveler have vastlydifferent art styles than

(43:01):
Advance Wars.
But the number of sprites inlocations and I really do like
grid-based strategy gamesbecause they generally do age
better than games trying to behyper realistic- so, on that
note, you know what I didn'tbring up at all Final Fantasy

(43:22):
Tactics, which people love, andFinal Fantasy Tactics Advanced,
which I love more.
Oh.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
Did you ever go through Final Fantasy Tactics
Advanced?

Speaker 2 (43:32):
Uh, I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
So it's like the most grid-based strategy of
grid-based strategy games, butlike the plot's funny.
So you get eek aside to FinalFantasy because you opened a
magic book.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
Okay, but.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
Sorry about that sneezing on the podcast, but you
learn that, like, the mainvillain is this kid who was
paralyzed in the real world andin the Final Fantasy world
wasn't so he was trying to stopyou from going home because his
life was objectively betterthere, and I'm like that's
actually profoundly dark themore you think about it.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
It was a good one, it had like so it had like the
typical Final Fantasy job system, but it also had the random
bullshit system.
So you start a fight and thisjudge would show up in black
armor, in his judge outfit, anddeclare a rule for the fight.
And if you broke the rule you'dget punished.
And it was like semi-random soyou'd get punished.

(44:35):
And it was like semi-random, solike you'd be like alright,
time to start my mission.
They'd be like, if you breakthe law and cast an ice spell,
oh no, no, no.
And I'd be like ah, damn it.
So one thing the bettergrid-based strategy games do
than the other ones is it makesme sad when, like your party

(44:56):
members just kind of get sounderleveled, they just end up
on the roster, never being used,because you don't really have a
reason to rotate out your team.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
Like the classic Pokemon problem.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Right.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
I don't know if I've ever seen any of these games fix
it.
Disgaea doesn't really havethat problem because you're
picking your units so you don'thave like a surplus of bench
warmers.
Really, super Robot Wars, youend up with a surplus of bench
warmers.
There's not a whole lot you cando to prevent that.
Fire Emblem fixed that in theiroriginal designs because people
would just die, which even inlike ironic as in the later Fire

(45:28):
Emblem games, they make deathoptional and don't really write
it into the plot as much andthey usually have things like oh
, we can rewind X number ofturns to make it feel less like,
oh, you died to one unlucky hit.
But I still always play with thedeath on because it changes how
you think strategically or likeyou're not going to sacrifice a
unit because you can't.
So even though, like it's like,even though I'm playing with

(45:52):
permadeath almost with theintention of save-scrumming, I'm
still playing with the deathbecause it changes how your
brain strategizes and kind ofmakes you more emotionally
attached or disattached to yourcharacters, because you can be
like I hate this guy because hekeeps dying.
Screw you Tails.
When I was doing my SonicOrigins run, I did a fair amount

(46:14):
of swearing Tails.
When I was doing my SonicOrigins run I did a fair amount
of swearing at Tails Like a lotof the times.
He'd be useful, but sometimeshe would just betray me.
He would just step on a buttonhe wasn't supposed to.
Or knock me off a platform bydoing a thing.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
Well, okay, so I mean going back to Gatchapon Wars
and Advance Wars, the other endof the spectrum.
There is the characters thatyou're not actually attached to
because they're just generic.
You build up your roster.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
So some Fire Emblems are bad for that.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
Not all Fire Emblems.
It's weird.
Like Fire Emblemss usually eachcharacter only really gets like
their introduction cut sceneand then like five support
conversations right andsometimes they nail it and
sometimes they don't.
And I think a lot of that comesfrom like actually using them
in battle kind of like buildsemotional attachment.
Like fire emblem three housesevery character has like a

(47:15):
really nuanced backstory to thepoint where their passive
ability is tied into theirbackstory, like one character
heals when they do nothingbecause they're a lazy slacker
who's just trying to get agovernment job.
So their dad stays off their assyeah, okay so it's like there's
a lot you can do to make youcare about characters or don't,
and that just comes down to goodwriting.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
And I'd say like half the Fire albums I've played
have had legitimately goodwriting.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
That's fair.
They do actually seem to befairly well written, and I mean
last week we've spoken at lengthabout how, uh, ganchapon wars
has zero writing, like it's justrandom battles basically but
it's funny as we still get thatemotional attachment with zero
writing.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
Right, my guy's a scene that I took your base over
with one guy's.
A c that thing will be thelegend and I will be emotionally
attached to it.
Geyser C that thing will be thelegend and I will be
emotionally attached to itBecause it's like me and you
will have a hatred of PsychoGundams.
No one else will truly everunderstand.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Ah, psycho Dice, Ah, psycho Dice.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
Also, why is Night Gundam so bad when it looks so
cool?

Speaker 2 (48:31):
Well, I mean, yeah, the Gachapon Wars does, because
it's so closely tied to an IPand you can just be like this is
my favorite unit and I'm goingto fill my roster with all of my
favorite units.
You do still kind of have someof that attachment, but that's
more so nostalgia than actualgenuine attachment.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
And the thing is they do the other SD Gundam games
which just retell the story ofGundam or do different
crossovers and things.
But the problem with I'm goingto just declare war on Japan
here casually a lot of Japanesegame series is that they kind of
peaked at the PS2.
So it's like they release an.
Sd Gundam game like everycouple of years, but they don't

(49:18):
write new stories for them.
They're just like, yeah, playthrough these Gundam scenarios.
I'm like, listen, I've wentthrough the plot of Zeta Gundam
in 20-something games okay,originally.
Like the first time I playedwith these SD Gundam games.
Like I don't know all theseside stories.
I'm like the first time Iplayed one of these SD Gundam
games, like I don't know allthese side stories.
I'm like, yeah, I'm familiarwith Shin Mazagata, it's not my
first day.

(49:38):
Yes, I'm aware, garmi Zaba hasa purple Zaku.
We're past this.
And what's worse is thenthey'll add in the new series.
And I'm like those I'll evenknow more about Because you've
actually and researched themBecause if you want to play
through Ironblood Orphans.
I'm like nothing surprising here, because you guys aren't

(50:00):
writing new stories for these.
I've only played one Gundamgame ever made that had a
completely 100% unique story toit.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
And it played more like a.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
Paul Fancy game.
It was called MS Saga, the NewDawn and it's probably the best
Gundam game.
That's not Gachapon Wars.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
It did something.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
I've always wanted we love Gachapon Wars it did
something I've always wanted aJRPG to do the map was just
Earth.
So like you, just youroverworld map was just Earth.
Right and then like keylocations that should have stuff
did.
Like when you unlock the planeyou're like there'll be
something hidden in Japan andyou go there and find a bunker
that has an original Gundamhidden in it and I'm like this
makes sense to me Like the bonusdungeon was a giant military

(50:45):
base under Antarctica.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
That's pretty sick.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
Right, and I think they turned the Sydney Opera
Hall into a coliseum for Gundambattling.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
That just makes sense .

Speaker 1 (50:59):
But, like my TLTR on this one is that it's a genre
that I'm sure fans are so usedto me complaining on our podcast
, because I like to complainabout things that's my favorite
genre, like even though SCGundam games would be better if
they hired writers right and themost recent Fire Emblem is a

(51:21):
disgrace.
There's just a lot of goodgames.
The thing about I need to pickup a Disgaea because it's been a
while.
My problem is I did severalDisgaeas back to back and then
they start to get a littlesamesies.
But like you know what's wild,I don't know if you ever watched
has Been Hotel or Hell of aBoss.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
I have not.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
But like they're super popular right now because
it's like 18-plus-rate animatedseries about demons, with all of
the swearing and adult themesand they're in hell and
assassinations and gay romance.
You know like things people areinto and I'm watching this I'm
like oh man, you guys don'trealize.
This is just disgaea.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
You have no idea I mean this guy is a little bit
more, uh, age appropriate foryounger children.
But yeah, there's a lot of thatsame stuff, only because
they're pretending it is.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
It's like Husband Hotel literally follows
Lucifer's daughter trying toredeem sinners through a hotel
program.
And I'm like oh thischaracter's literally flown from
the first Disgaea game, but isthe protagonist and it's like
yeah, you made edgy Disgaea,good job.
And it's a musical.
Oh man, if they put out a newDisgaea, that was just straight

(52:41):
up a musical, that'd be amazing.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
All the cutscenes are musical numbers.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
All the cutscenes are musical numbers.
The music bops during turns andwhen you click your attack
buttons, your movement, soundeffects and attacks are in beat.
It'd be amazing.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
Hmm, that would be a very neat game On a different
note.
Your attacks are stronger ifyou actually hit them at the
right rhythm.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
Right, what was it Like?
Paper Mario had the tappingbuttons as part of the attack
animations.
I mean, nothing's going to beatSD Gundams if you just control
your Gundams for the fights,because it's like so much effort
from such a famously non-effortfranchise.
It's just wild.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
Like anywho, but any of that we're forgetting.
Like the big ones that come tomy mind are Fire Emblem, super
Robot Wars, disgaea, this newtriangle strategy, which, I'm
gonna be honest, it's just FireEmblem, but one of the first
characters they give me is, likemy advisor, gray-haired advisor

(53:49):
, dude with glasses who beatspeople with a cane sword.
I'm like, yeah, no, this issick.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
Well, and then you said that it has that unique
mechanic where you have toconvince your party members with
story brands you want to godown.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
So here's a couple of the cooler mechanics.
It has to dive in a bit, so ithas the typical terrain.
Characters don't equip weapons.
Weapons are just things thatlevel up with the character.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (54:12):
And each character has like five or six moves.
But the game cares if you backattack people and if you flank
someone, like you're on bothsides of them, you get a
follow-up attack and everycharacter has been a unique
class and it also kind of haslike the divinity terrain
effects, like you can have onecharacter throw oil and the

(54:33):
other character light the oil onfire to burn them.
Oh okay, so like my team rightnow, because I'm just like
starting it out I got sword dudewho just unlocked the one he
gets hit can counter attack.
That's like sword attack range,sword attack.
Slow down their turn order,sword attack my cler.
My cleric has, like heal haste,beat with baton.
I have a dude that just wieldsa shield that knocks people back

(54:54):
squares.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
I have an archer.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
That's range increases the higher up they are
.
That can go for the eyes, soit's like they're giving other
characters that are like feellike they'd be late game
abilities right at the start,like the thief character just
gets to take two actions or cantake an action and then a hide
action.

Speaker 2 (55:14):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
So it's like this game is like clipping along and
I'm like, oh wow, the fights arehard enough in it.
So a mechanic they put in isyou keep your experience when
you lose a fight.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
And on hard mode.
The fights are hard enough thatI've lost every fight, the
first try and then won therematch.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Hmm.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
Because you like, because then you've leveled up.
Well, not just the level up, butI've had to think about it and
I've fought better.
The level ups aren't likemaking huge differences, but
like it doesn't feel like you'rewasting time.
Hmm, yeah, okay.
And instead of having like mp,they have like a star system
where you start with four starson your character and your

(55:54):
actions cost different stars andyou get one back a turn.
So like the fire spell uses upthree of them, which means only
every three turns you get a fire, the big fire spell, and it's
been very good so far.
Like I really enjoyed thearcher having better range, the
better high ground I give them.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Right.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
Or literally the shield guy having a taunt to
make everyone have to attack himon his turn so you can position
them, so you can then shoot thefire spell at your guy and burn
all the guys around him, orlike they gave me an ice mage.
That could just make a 5x3, 1x3row of ice, so enemies have to
walk around.
That takes three turns to melt.
So it's like they went andsniped all the really

(56:37):
interesting later game mechanicsfrom this and they're like yeah
, we're not even going to botherwith weapons because the
characters are just complex.
And the whole democracy systemof the more you deploy
characters, the more willingthey are to listen to your vote.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
Oh yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
And the plot starts with you being in an arranged
marriage and then that's likeyour first two characters and
I'm like, oh, it's like PG-13Game of Thrones, where it's like
being pretty serious andgrounded, like the main cause of
the war is over salt mineownership rights between three
kingdoms.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
Because salt is important.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
Makes sense.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
And I haven't gotten super far into it, but it's like
, okay, you're telling agrounded story, like your main
character is like one of thelike three houses of the kingdom
that are like the Kingsguardbasically, and like all sorts of
like.
Oh, you two got married becauseyou're both expendable, so the
alliance falls through.
They could just write you bothoff as a lost cause, isn't that

(57:43):
great?
Warbreak says like well, thissucks for both of us, doesn't it
?
So it's been pretty good.
Also, a character got Warbreaksays like well, this sucks for
both of us, doesn't it?
So it's been pretty good.
Also, a character got superdrunk in, like the second
chapter, and passed out on thefloor.
And I'm like you know, I'venever seen this in a game and
this amuses me greatly.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
The only game I've ever seen someone get drunk and
pass out in was Tales of.
It was the one for the SuperNintendo Tales of Fantasia.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
Okay, like this one amused me because he gave his
grand designs plan, got drunk,passed out and then later just
gets shot in the back with anarrow instead.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
Yeah, no, that didn't happen in Tales of Fantasia.
They were on a boat and the guywas drinking and passed out.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
Seems legit, but yeah , like ugh.
And then I'm thinking like someof the tactics games that
didn't really come up are thingswith the word tactics, like
Dice Warriors Tactics.
Eh, it's exactly what you wouldexpect on the tin.
Persona, Tactics terrible.
They made this Digimon Survivegame, which was half visual

(58:46):
novel, half tactics, and thetactics part was terrible and I
was so mad.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
But you liked the novel part.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
So the novel part was good but wasn't full-price
video game good.
It was like $20 good, not $80good.
Because, it's one of thosechoice matters where you're like
actually no, it made it feellike you had control over who
lived and died, and that's howthey advertised it.
Digimon survive.
Your bonds with your friendsdetermine who gets killed

(59:15):
throughout the story right andthen after you beat it you
realize no, it doesn't.
You actually can't change it atall.
There's like three routes butonly one decision point at the
game actually changed the story.
It was such a bummer because,like sick turn-based strategy
Digimon game with a sick storywas great, but like it would

(59:37):
have been better as an anime ora book because the choices
matters, didn't matter.
So I made so many dialoguechoices for it to do nothing.
When they're like, dialoguechoices changes what your
Digimon evolves into Like oh,that evolves into Like oh, that
sounds sick.
Oh no, you like literally colorcoded the choices into red,
green and yellow and then thatjust changes your main guy's
evolution and that's it.
I'm like, ah, you guys were soclose to making something sick,

(01:00:03):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
He always complained about the things you love most.
So he always complained aboutthe things you love most, not
this one.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
It's like, as I said, my favorite genre paired with
one of my favorite series with acool concept and some really
sick moments.
Honestly, I don't want to spoilit Like some straight up sick
moments and then I get throughit the first ride and realize,
oh, that's it.
Damn, it Was a bummer.

(01:00:30):
It's like I was just singingthe praise of Fire Emblem Three
Houses, because each routeunveiled more of the plot, and
this one's like you can go forall three endings.
I'm like your first six out ofeight chapters are identical.
Why would I do that?
And your combat engine sucksfor some reason.
Oh, also, they're doing aBleach turn-based grid tactics

(01:00:53):
game for DS.
It was actually reallyinteresting.
Oh, you know I usually sayprequels suck.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
This one was a Bleach prequel for like Soul Society
during Aizen's days when heplayed as like one of his squad
members.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
And it was actually really interesting Because all
these characters in Bleach.
Bleach has a really wellfleshed out flashback time
period.
You can go around to do stuff,but it didn't have prequel
problems because it's like noneof the main characters are going
to die, but a lot of charactersare going to die and the main

(01:01:33):
characters weren't yourcharacters right because you're
like oh, by the end of thisprequel my protagonist here dies
.
But I'm kind of fine with thatif it's compelling enough makes
sense.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
But also I wasn't very old when I played that game
, so I might just have been dumb.

Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
Compelling enough Makes sense, but also I wasn't
very old when I played that game, so I might just have been dumb
.
I might not have been aware itwas bad, because I'm like yeah,
this is sick.
Another very mid one is theydid like a Pokemon X Nobunaga's
Conquest game.
Oh, really yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
Oda.

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
Nobunaga had Conquest game.
Oh really, yeah, Oda Nobunagahad a shiny Rayquaza.
It was a thing.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
That sounds like a tongue twister.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
It was interesting.
Like I'm not even going to ratethat one good or bad, it was
just interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
I think that's most of the ones that I've played
that come to mind.
Wargroove looks reallyinteresting for like having a
full co-op campaign, so at somepoint I'll probably give that
another try makes sense but doyou have any closing thoughts?

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
uh, not in particular .
I mean SD Gundam Genshin ImpactWars is just my favorite game
in the in the genre, uh, but uh,there have been quite a few
good titles that I've played, uh, most of which you've also
played.
So that's.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
I don't really have much to add it's like, oh man,
it's kind of funny because aturn-based game like that you
wouldn't think would be aparticularly good co-op
experience, but like a lot ofthe st gundam ones and things I
played like with my brother in asense, where I've watched play
and made comments and gats uponwars had that sick ability that

(01:03:22):
like you could literally have asecond player pickup controller
and fight, because they put inthat combat mechanic which I was
on the fence about but reallyenjoyed.
But like it's also one of myfavorite genres to just kind of
watch people play in backseatgame to be like, hey, are you
sure you want to do that?
That's probably death.
And with that we move into ourrandom question of the day,

(01:03:46):
which I usually use two or threebecause I'm whimsical.
Whimsy of the day, which Iusually use two or three because
I'm whimsical.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
Whimsy of the day.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
So this one's a good one.
If you can make any animal thesize of a horse, which one would
you choose?

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
Make any animal the size of a horse.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
So I want to ride around on a horse-sized capybara
.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
Like I want to use it as like a.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
It'd be my Bidoof and I could take it across the lake
, but realistically thatwouldn't actually be helpful.
I might do something wild here,but go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
Well, I was thinking the other way around.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
Take something big and make it small, so like a
horse sized elephant oh, that'spretty optimal because, like, if
I want to like actually endworld hunger, we go horse sized
chickens, they're terrifyingyeah, that's true but I think I
just solved world hunger,although we kind of have those
and they're called ostrichesyeah, I mean, I think that might

(01:04:48):
be a play mistake to increasethe chicken size.
And if I made Miko the size of ahorse I would die.
We call those panthers and theykill people Like capybaras are
super harmless, so like thenovelty of a giant, giant
capybara would amuse me, but Idon't know.
Also, hot take probably reallydumb.

(01:05:10):
Ravens are extremely trainableand in theory you could ride on
a raven the size of a horse,provided like proportionally.
Their flight still worked.
So I'm gonna ride around on araven and that's how I die,
because I have a fear of heightsand I decide to ride on the
back of a bird, but it'd be areally, really cool way to die.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
I wonder if that would be doable, because their
bones are hollow.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
Well, we're assuming the magical giant, like any
animal, we have to assume magicwill account for the shift in
destiny.
So they can be that size andnot just.
I want a cat the size of ahorse.
Kill me my rims, get support tome and I'm in agony.
I try not to monkey paw orrandom questions.
That's for D&D wish spells.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
Yeah, that's true, because I'm pretty sure, most
animals.

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
If you make them the size of a horse, what happens is
they die.

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
Well, yeah, probably.
But again, I was also thinkinglike you know, blue whale the
size of a horse would be kind ofamusing.
I think those are dolphins.
Dolphins have the bottom, Iguess I don't know much about
dolphins.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
I think I'm wrong.
I think I'm just being ajackass for no reason.
Oh, a seahorse the size of ahorse.
Could you actually even Aquaman, that shit?
Oh, that'd be dope.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
Ooh, a starfish the size of a horse, that'd be kind
of terrifying.
Yeah, that's Starro, that's aproblem.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
You call the Justice League.
When you see starfish that big,that is problematic.
Also, I kind of want to findone of those fancy toy-ty-toy
rich people, animals and make itgiant so you can eat more of it
.
But they're only valuablebecause they're rare and hard to
get, like a giant quail wouldbe like we're not going to eat
giant quail.
We quail and be like we're notgoing to eat giant quail.

(01:07:08):
We're not going to eat giantduck.
Why would you need a duck thesize of a horse?

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
The fat ratio would just be ruined.
The fat ratio would be ruined.

Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
Also, a shrimp the size of a horse would be
terrifying.
I'm going to make a lobster thesize of a horse and people will
have problems with it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
People will have problems with it.
People will have problems withthat size of lobster.

Speaker 1 (01:07:35):
And our second random question.
I don't know if I've asked thisone.
It's pretty close to one we'vehad before.
But if the sky could rainanything but water, what would
you find to be the mostentertaining option?

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
To rain anything but water.
What would you find to be themost entertaining option?
To rain anything but water?

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
What would?
You find to be the most.
I like the follow-up of whatwould you find to be the most
entertaining option, not likegood or like no, no, just you
personally.
What would amuse you to have itrain on people, which is kind
of a good litmus test onhumanity?
I think, oh, that's such aweird hot take.
So I'm going to say somethinghorrifying, but I might stand by

(01:08:14):
it, you know.
After they jacked up the priceof insulin.
How funny would it be if itjust rained insulin, like if I
could just pick a medicationthat I could just fall from the
sky like a really useful one,like, oh yeah, it just rains
penicillin.
The rains of penicillin justhit people and just everyone in
this region is healthier now,except that one person with an
allergy who had the worstpossible death.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
I was just going to say.

Speaker 1 (01:08:41):
It's like I just walk outside.
I feel really good.
I must have had an infection.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
Jeremy, twitching on the ground, oh no, just death,
no, I'm going to go with all thevarieties of ice cream.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
Oh, oh no, that'd be so bad the next day.
Oh no, not cream, not dairy, noDairy.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
Oh no, not cream, not dairy.
No, you better pack yourumbrella.

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
Oh no, I'm not going outside.
No way I'm going to let thecity go to purge.

Speaker 2 (01:09:21):
Yeah, but I mean like seeing people slip in ice cream
the next day would be hilarious.
Also, if you go out there withlike a you know, a decent ice
cream cone, you could like scoopit up.
Well, meanwhile it's falling.

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
You don't want to scoop the stuff off of the
ground, like this is sotemperature relevant like thank
god you're in saskatchewan whenthis happens, because if that
happened on a hot summer day,like 20 minutes later, you've
created the worst apocalypseever.
Oh, that's rough.
You know it'd be a really funone, though ever that's rough.
You know, what would be areally fun one, though, orange

(01:09:53):
dye Orange, dye Yep why?
Because then just everyonewould be Trump-colored across
the entire country.
I think I solved racism I thinkI solved racism, that's the
thing.

(01:10:14):
I want it to be something useful, but if it's a food product,
it'll spoil and just be terrible.

Speaker 2 (01:10:23):
Well, I mean, useful is not what it means to be
amusing, unless you're amused byutilitarianism.
My fantasy is for people to behappy, unless you're amused by
utilitarianism.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
My fantasy is for people to be happy, healthy and
content people okay, I would mylike escapism fantasy is going
on the bus and everyone'sactually having a good day.
Like you want to entertain me,put me in a room where people
actually want to be there.

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):
Uh See.
Originally I was going Uh see,see um.
Originally I was going to saylike bouncy balls.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
I thought you were going to say flubber.
I don't know why I thought youwere going to say flubber
specifically, but, like my brainwent that direction.

Speaker 2 (01:11:00):
Well, I mean, bouncy balls are pretty, pretty close.
Um, flubber actually probablywould eat better, because I it
uh doesn't have the same massand density as a bouncy ball.
Because how far up are thesebouncy balls raining from?

Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
I think you can decide.
So I'm going to say one lastoption, because it would be the
apocalypse.
I'm ending humanity this way,but it's the best way for
humanity to go I'm going to haveit rain.
Nicholas Cages.
You just hear some bees, somebees and then just a full-grown

(01:11:38):
Nicholas Cage hits someone andthen they just all start
swarming, yelling moviecatchphrases as they plummet
down from the heavens.

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
And none of the religions called it right.
Have you ever seen theUnbearable weight of massive
talent?

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
yep oh man, nicolas Cage as portrayed in that movie
raining down on people is thereanything we can have in rain
that would like fix climatechange?
Like can I have it rain thatwould like fix climate change?
Like can I have it rain?

Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
like just pure ozone or something, what, oh wow.

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
I have it rain, liquid nitrogen.

Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
To just cool off the planet.

Speaker 1 (01:12:21):
Well, yeah, the most effective way possible by
killing everybody.
I don't think mankind'ssurviving five minutes of
straight up liquid nitrogen rainLike that's problematic.
Goodbye, every farm.

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
Yeah, I mean that's true.

Speaker 1 (01:12:41):
Like I don't think our buildings are doing too well
.
Like liquid, nitrogen's not thekind of thing that repeatedly
hits something.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
That's true, but you might not have that much
actually hit the ground.

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
I don't know.
That's a fun physics experiment.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
Terrible wish, fun physics experiment, oh speaking
of that has nothing to do withanything.

Speaker 1 (01:13:07):
So I was watching a Critical Role charity special
last week.
They were doing like afundraiser for the wildfires,
not to get too topical and oneof the characters gets a wish
spell.
It's like, what do you wish for?
And then he goes I'm going tosummon a Tarrasque and Matt
Mercer, with all the joy in theworld and glean his voice, goes,
grab my Tarrasque mini as oneof the like to support team,

(01:13:31):
runs off to this room and I'mlike he's been waiting his
entire life for this moment andhe's so happy.
Nothing new of anything, that'sjust a thing that made me happy
this week.
Anyway, I'm gonna have a rain,tarrasque another apocalyptic
ending to the world.

(01:13:51):
That awkward moment where you'rejust walking down the stroll
and you feel a drop of rain onyou and then a hundred foot tall
, scaly, magic-resistantdinosaur falls on you.

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):
Oh, the Tarrasque, my favorite magic commanders Kinda
yeah, it's cool, it's not verygood.

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
My favorite Magic Commander Kinda, yeah it's cool.
It's not very good, but it'scool.
I mean, at least your favoriteone's not like PewDiePie or
Optimus Prime or some otherbullshit.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
That's true, there's a lot of garbage.
I'm gonna run Rick from theWalking Dead.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
I think the Walking Dead one bugs me the most.
Cause every Walking Deadcharacter should be a 1-1
creature.
Don't you tell me that Neganfrom the Walking Dead can fight
a Shivanen dragon.
I call bullshit.
He can't even fight a regularhuman with mold in their mouth,
and I mean bears are 2-2's.

Speaker 2 (01:14:48):
Yeah, and fight a regular human with mold in their
mouth.
And I mean bears are two, twoslike.

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
Yeah, that was so.
I love a good crossover and Ihate a bad crossover, I know
like this is a weird tangent toend this Strategy Game Rant
episode on.
But like I love a synergisticcrossover where it feels like
those characters could meet andthis crossover could happen, I
hate when they just don't meshat all, like, for example,

(01:15:16):
dexter's Lab and Powerpuff Girls.
Great crossover, ten out of tenKeng and.
Ashura Baki the Grappler.
Great crossover.
Ninja Turtles and Batman worksbetter than it should Great
crossover.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
That was a pretty good one.

Speaker 1 (01:15:32):
Well, it helps that Batman already had animal people
.
My random question for you thatI invented right now is what
two things would give a sickcrossover off the top of your
head.

Speaker 2 (01:15:44):
What two things would give a sick crossover off the
top of my head?
Hmm, I think Bleach and theDaily Life of the Immortal King
would be pretty peak.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
I don't know if that one would work.

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:16:05):
Wouldn't it, wouldn't it?
I'm going to think about that,because there is a lot of
overlap.
I think you'd have to do aredesign.
I think my brain went powerscaling, which is the wrong
direction.
I want a daily life with theImmortal King MMO.
That's what I want.
That power system is whack.
You're just going to fly aroundon swords and just decide to be

(01:16:27):
Pokemon trainers one week Ugh.

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
Peak fiction yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:38):
You know what I'm thinking more and more about
this crossover and I like itworks.
But I also really enjoy thepart where he just like slaps
Aizen around the world, like Ithink the bit would be so funny
because Bleach has such seriousvillains and seeing them just
fight a Saitama is so great.

Speaker 2 (01:17:00):
It's like the main thing I was thinking about is
the whole spiritual sword thing.

Speaker 1 (01:17:06):
It winds up perfectly .
He just has a Zanpakuto.
Yeah, he just has a.

Speaker 2 (01:17:09):
Zanpakuto.
Yeah, he just has a Zanpakuto.
I mean, he's never had to usehis Bankai, but he has one
Almost certainly we have no ideawhat it is, but he has one Like
here's my kind of hot takeabout the Daily Keg.

Speaker 1 (01:17:22):
Like I know it's a comedy series, but like
conceptually, but likeconceptually I think it's cooler
than Bleach in a lot of ways,where it's like, oh yeah, we're
the sword police and I'm swordRegan from Mob Psycho flying
around on my sword, being thespecial police fighting ninjas,
and I'm like you know, this isactually sick.
But the lesson of that show iswhen you hear someone's own

(01:17:47):
theme music playing run.
But the lesson of that show iswhen you hear someone's own
theme music playing run.
But thank y'all for tuning into Deep Space Dragons Once you
finish that show.
We gotta do that episodebecause, like it is so high up
on my favorite list today,shouldn't it be?
Bye, bye, go buy a local book alocal book which is ironic

(01:18:13):
because they can't buy mine.
But I'm fine with that.
We're at war.