Strange things are afoot at the Circle K.
In 1989, Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure introduced Emily to a baby-faced Keanu Reeves–and to the idea that two easy-going dopes could change the world by encouraging us all to be excellent to each other. In this episode, Emily shares how this surprisingly well-crafted comedy teaches us that destiny can’t be achieved without putting in the work and why it’s important to look at history from the perspective of average people, not just rulers. While the film is a product of its time (sorry, Missy), the laughs, intelligence, and sweetness shine through the future Wyld Stallyns.
Put on your headphones, do some air guitar, and take a listen!
Mentioned in this episode:
A Historiographical Analysis of Bill & Ted
15 Most Excellent Facts About Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure
This episode was edited by Resonate Recordings.
Our theme music is "Professor Umlaut" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
Learn more about Tracie and Emily (including our other projects), join the Guy Girls' family, secure exclusive access to bonus episodes, video versions, and early access to Deep Thoughts by visiting us on Patreon or find us on ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/guygirls
We are Tracie Guy-Decker and Emily Guy Birken, known to our family as the Guy Girls.
We have super-serious day jobs. For the bona fides, visit our individual websites: tracieguydecker.com and emilyguybirken.com
We're hella smart and completely unashamed of our overthinking prowess. We love movies and tv, science fiction, comedy, and murder mysteries, good storytelling with lots of dramatic irony, and analyzing pop culture for gender dynamics, psychology, sociology, and whatever else we find.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
There's just something lovely and charming
about Bill and Ted as characters, and I wanted to see if they
still were 35 years later,because there's this exuberance,
this optimism, this sweetnessand joy to them that I
(00:20):
remembered and I was hoping thatit was still there, and I think
it is, although there are somethings that definitely didn't
age well.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Have you ever had something you love dismissed
because it's just pop culture,what others might deem stupid
shit?
You know matters, you knowwhat's worth talking and
thinking about, and so do we.
So come overthink with us as wedelve into our deep thoughts
about stupid shit.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
I'm Emily Guy-Burken and you're listening to Deep
Thoughts About Stupid Shit,because pop culture is still
culture, and shouldn't you knowwhat's in your head?
On today's episode, I'll besharing my deep thoughts about
the 1989 film Bill and Ted'sExcellent Adventure with my
sister, tracy Guy-Decker, andwith you, let's dive in.
So, tracy, I know you've seenthis movie.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Definitely seen this movie.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Tell me what's in the furniture of your brain about
it.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, so there's a lot, although it's very
disjointed.
But I remember a time travelingphone booth that, unlike the
TARDIS, is not bigger on theinside, it's just a phone booth
and my recollection is thatthese two guys, keanu Reeves and
the other one, alex Winter Him,they need to get an A on their
(01:41):
history project for some reason,and so they're using the time
machine to like meet historicalfigures and they bring them back
.
And I remember, like themispronouncing people's names,
like Socrates they call Socrates, and I remember, at the end, a
thing where they're like oh, wecan have so-and-so, do such and
such, and then like a trash canshows up on somebody's head or
something like that, and thewhole punchline is be excellent
(02:06):
to each other and that like anew religion is created based on
that, which is really, I mean,in our current climate, like,
I'll take it y'all.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I will take the excellent to each other.
Re-watching this film, I couldimagine if it came out today it
would be like this is wokepropaganda.
This film I I could imagine ifit came out today it would be
like this is woke propaganda,yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
So I mean like that's basically what I got.
I remember enjoying itimmensely, like immensely in the
in the late 80s, early 90s,like just finding it hilarious
and finding bill and ted likecute and just really liking it.
But those are like just thelittle, like flashes that I have
(02:55):
.
I have no sense of an actualplot or dialogue except for
socrates and be excellent toeach other.
Oh, I do remember.
No, no, that's Wayne's World.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
That's Wayne's World Anyway that strange things are
afoot at the Circle K.
No, no, that's part of thefurniture of my brain.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, that's all I got.
That's all I got.
But tell me, besides the factthat it's woke propaganda, why
are we talking about it today?
Speaker 1 (03:25):
So a couple of reasons.
One I have had a crush on KeanuReeves for going on 40 years
almost now.
Same same.
So maybe not quite that long,but 35 years and started with
this movie.
Yeah, this is the movie thatlaunched him to stardom.
I also there was a point intime in the 90s where it was a
(03:45):
lot of it was kind of consideredacceptable to kind of shit on
Keanu Reeves as a bad actor andso like in the past few years
where it's become clear what alike just a mensch he is or
appears to be.
I'm being very careful.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I don't want to call anybody a mensch at this point.
Like public figure.
Yeah, very careful, as ifthey'd call anybody a mention at
this point.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Like public figure.
Yeah, like when he takes photoswith fans, he makes sure his
hand hovers behind them, hedoesn't touch them, so like
stuff like that.
And he has said I have moremoney than I can ever possibly
dream of spending in my lifetimeand so he makes sure he gives
back, because what's he going toneed more money for?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah, he's Hawaiian, isn't he?
Mm-hmm, yeah, so also nice,right after our Lilo and Stitch
conversation last week, to talkabout another famous Hawaiian.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yes.
So that's part of it.
Part of it is like I love timetravel movies and you know the
80s were big on like we hadquite a few.
I mean, we had Back to theFuture, and then, just a couple
years later, this and then thisis a movie that I kind of
associate with our cousin Chris.
I feel like the three of uswatched it together.
(04:56):
There's just something lovelyand charming about Bill and Ted
as characters, and I wanted tosee if they still were 35 years
later, because there's thisexuberance, this optimism, this
sweetness and joy to them that Iremembered and I was hoping
(05:18):
that it was still there and Ithink it is, although there are
some things that definitelydidn't age well.
So that's kind of why I wasinterested in it.
And then, having just rewatchedit and done a little bit of
research, apparently historiansare fans of this movie.
Oh, that's cool For a number ofreasons, although they also
have some valid critiques, but Ithink it's silly fun that
(05:46):
actually has a lot more beneathit than you might think.
So you know, it's our thing.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Yeah, that is our thing Silly fun with a lot more
beneath Cool.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I'll give you a rundown of the plot such as it
is.
Okay, we are introduced to SanDimas, california, in 2688, 700
years in the future of when thefilm takes place 1988.
And we are introduced to Rufus,played by George Carlin, who
explains how that humanity hasachieved this utopia where water
(06:18):
is clean, air is clean, eventhe dirt is clean, and it is all
because of the influence of aband called Wild Stallions.
However, they are in peril in1988 because it is possible they
are about to the.
Bill S Preston Esquire, playedby Alex Winter, and Ted Theodore
(06:39):
Logan, played by Keanu Reeves,may be separated if they fail
their history class, becauseTed's father, who is the chief
of police, is going to send himto military school in Alaska if
he flunks.
So to pass their test.
There is this.
It's an oral report and it'slike a whole school oral report
(07:00):
the next day on historicalfigures, and their teacher makes
it clear to them if you can getan A-plus on this and pass, but
anything less than that, thenyou're going to fail.
So, in addition to Ted's father, we meet Bill's father and his
stepmother, who was a senior inhigh school when Bill and Ted
were freshmen and who tells themto say hi to Mr Ryan, their
(07:24):
teacher Boy.
Yeah, and so there's aconsistent like he calls her
Missy, and she'll be like no,call me mom, which doesn't feel
like what a 22 year old wouldactually be saying to a 17 or 18
year old yeah.
So we meet those characters andBill and Ted end up at the
Circle K and Rufus arrives inthe time machine that looks like
(07:48):
a phone booth, but isn't theTARDIS.
It is not the TARDIS and hestarts telling him what's going
on.
And then another phone boothshows up with future Bill and
Ted there who come out and tellcurrent Bill and Ted that they
should listen to Rufus, thatthey should make sure that they
do what Rufus says, and currentBill and Ted test future Bill
(08:12):
and Ted to see like well, how dowe know you're not lying to us?
How do you know you're reallyus?
If you're really us, you'lltell us what number we're
thinking of 69, dude yeah, Iremember that as soon as you
said it.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Dude yeah, I remember that as soon as you said it.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
The future.
Bill and Ted go away.
They get in the not-tardis withRufus and he takes them to 1805
and to one of Napoleon'sbattles and Napoleon is
accidentally pulled with themback because Rufus just takes
him to show them and then hetakes them back to right outside
(08:45):
of Ted's house and Napoleon hasaccidentally come with them.
Rufus then says you guys are onyour own, you need to take care
of this.
And he makes it clear that thetime in San Dimas will continue
moving at the same rate.
Even as they're moving, theydon't have infinite time.
They still have to be ready by2.45 the next afternoon, which
(09:07):
is when they have to give theirpresentation.
So they discover that Napoleonhas followed them by accident
and they ask Ted's littlebrother, deacon, to take care of
Napoleon while they're offgathering other.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I vaguely remember Napoleon saying Merred, merred,
merred, merred, over and, overand over again, and the subtitle
not actually reflecting what hewas saying.
Is that accurate?
Well, it did, when I watched ittoday.
It did say shit, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
They then go to New Mexico in 1879 and end up saving
Billy the Kid's life and thentake him with them.
They then go to ancient Greeceand they encourage Socrates to
come with them.
Like is he?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
about to drink the hemlock?
No, no, no.
Did they save his life too?
Speaker 1 (09:58):
No, they don't save his life.
He is like speaking to students.
There's like a bowl of sand andhe's making and they tell us
what he's saying.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Oh, like.
So through the hour, like thesands through the hourglass, so
are the days of our lives.
Is that what he's saying?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Well, he doesn't say that until after.
Like they tell him, like we'reall but dust in the wind.
All we are is dust in the wind.
That's so stupid.
And like he doesn't understand.
Because this is another thingthat I think is really
interesting nobody speaksenglish.
If they didn't, they don'tspeak english.
(10:34):
Yeah, and so like they, theyhave to kind of like mime to and
, and he gets what they'resaying and he finds it so
profound, so so they take himback.
Then they end up in the middleage, in the 15th century.
In England.
They don't have anyone specificin mind.
Like pretty much every othertime period they go to, they
(10:55):
have someone specific they'regoing to grab.
They don't have anyone specificin mind, and so they ask Billy
the Kid to keep an eye on thephone booth and on Socrates.
Ted had his backpack and he hada little football in it, and so
there's a point.
But this is such ridiculoushumor.
(11:15):
You can see Ted and Bill aretalking in the foreground and in
the background Billy the Kidand Socrates are passing this
toy football back and forth.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
So of a pass in this toy football pack.
So Socrates and Billy the Kidare playing catch Cool.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
And, like Billy, the Kid has to teach it to him.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
He has to teach him how to play catch.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
So it's ridiculous, it's so silly.
They don't know who they'relooking for there.
So they ask, like there's abunch of commoners walking by
like hey, is there a person ofhistorical significance nearby?
And the guy points to a castleup ahead.
One of the two of them says ohwait, what about that gnarly
(12:02):
goat-looking guy?
Let's take him.
And originally this issomething I just found out today
in the original script theywere going to take the
goat-looking guy who was namedJohn the Surf, who was just a
dude.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
He's just a dude.
He looks like a goat to them.
That's why they say that yeah,okay.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
And that's not what ended up happening.
So they do have a shenanigans.
This is one of the longerhistorical periods they spend
time in, because Ted sees twoyoung women on a balcony and
Bill says to him like no, we'rehere for a history report, not a
babe report.
And he's like but they'rehistorical babes.
(12:42):
So they head into the castle.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
They end up coming back to the, to the future with
them, like right, yeah, okay,yeah, you'll get there.
Sorry, I'll get there.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, so they.
They head into the castle, theyput on some suits of armor that
they find and they're.
They're like pretend fightingas one does as one does.
I mean well, honestly, maybenot now, but when I was 17, yeah
, I think I probably wanna.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I don't, yeah, okay, I have a feeling that, like I
wonder how historians talk aboutthat, because I have a feeling
that it's much heavier and moredifficult to dawn say then
that's one of the things theysay oh really, this is heavy.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
And they make a joke about heavy metal and do the
thing that they do.
And actually, Ted, becausethey're like sword fighting
they're like, hey, we can fightwith swords now.
And Ted ends up falling down aset of stairs and, like, Bill
follows, is like dude, are youokay?
And he sees what looks likeTed's body lying at the bottom
(13:46):
of the stairs and another knightcomes over and like, pierces
the armor with sword.
And so Bill thinks Ted is dead.
He waits until everyone leaves,he goes down.
He's like, oh my God, you know,this is totally bogus, or you
know all the things that theysay, or all the things that they
say.
And then the knight comes backand is attacking Bill and then
(14:13):
Ted comes out of nowhere.
It's in a kitchen and he hasthis huge lamb shank bone and he
bops the knight over the headand calls him a bonehead.
He totally boned him, oh my God.
And Ted explains he fell out ofthe armor when he fell down the
stairs, which, whatever, doesn'tmake sense, but it doesn't need
to, it's a cartoon.
It's a cartoon.
So and they hug because, like,Bill really thought he was dead.
(14:34):
And this is the thing thatreally doesn't age.
Well, they hug and then, asthey're hugging, they both say
ugh and use the slang the um theF word.
Yeah, they both say ugh and usethe slang the um the F word.
Yeah, Not that one.
I can say fuck.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
The slur, the slur, no-transcript.
Be excellent to each other.
Yeah, so they run into the twoyoung women.
They are princesses, princessJoanna and Princess Elizabeth.
They both have names.
They do talk to each other, butonly about the crusty old men
they are going to be forced tomarry that day, I see.
(15:10):
So they recognize Bill and Tedand they had been like kind of
like waving like hi to them atthe balcony.
They talk a little bit and Billand Ted say like're gonna get
you out of here.
You don't have to marry thosemen if you don't want to.
And they open a door andthere's their father, who
presumably is the king, whoorders them to be executed
immediately, although at firsthe says put them in the Iron
(15:32):
Maiden.
And they think that is awesome.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
He orders Bill and Ted to be executed.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yes, got it and he and he wants them in the, if he
wants to put them in the ironmaiden.
They go, iron maiden, right,right.
So they are like at a choppingblock to have their heads
chopped off.
And there are two like maskedexecutioners and there's a cart.
Someone found the phone boothand had brought it forward and
(15:59):
they were saying like they'reblasphemers, they're witches
because they fell from the sky.
And the executioners bring downthe axes and it cuts the ropes
that have Bill and Ted tied upand it turns out it going on
with the time travel machine.
The phone booth is acting, it'son the fritz.
(16:22):
They end up going I thinkthat's when they go to.
They end up going to the future, the 2688, where Rufus is from,
and they see the three mostimportant people in the world.
That's what they're named andit's three famous musicians who
I don't actually like.
The actors playing them arefamous musicians.
One of them worked the E StreetBand, bruce Springsteen Thank
(16:44):
you, he was someone who'swell-known for working with
Bruce Springsteen and then twoother artists who I'm not
familiar with, and so they thethree most important people in
the world.
And then other people come inand they're doing the air guitar
thing.
And so they're like we shouldsay something to them.
And so Bill and Ted tell thembe excellent to each other and
party on dudes.
(17:04):
And they are very, very pleased.
And so they get back into thephone booth and they end up
grabbing in quick successionBeethoven, beath, oven, right
Beethoven, beethoven, genghisKhan, abraham Lincoln and Joan
of Arc.
And then they because thingsare on the fritz and I might be
(17:29):
a little bit out of order wherethey go when they end up in
10,000 BCE?
Oh, like with cavemen kind of athing, yeah, and there actually
are cave people and they haveto fix the phone booth with
chewing gum.
So they have all thesehistorical personages chewing
gum and passing it over.
(17:50):
Meanwhile, in San Dimas of 1988,deacon is taking Napoleon
around.
He takes him to a place calledZiggy Piggy where they have this
huge bowl of ice cream thatDeacon and his two friends and
then Napoleon are all eatingtogether.
And Napoleon at first is likewhat is this?
And they're like it's ice cream.
(18:10):
And he kind of tastes it.
He's like, oh, la Glace.
And I was like did they haveice cream in 1805?
I'm going to have to look thatup.
And so he's like fighting thelittle kids for the ice cream.
Then they take him bowling andthat's when he does the merd,
merd, merd, merd.
He's not good at bowling, andDeacon and his friends end up
(18:32):
ditching Napoleon becausethey're just Because he's
annoying, he's annoying, they'resick of him.
I remember that.
Because they're just Becausehe's annoying, he's annoying,
they're sick of him.
I remember that.
So Bill and Ted come back tothe current time.
They end up in that first scenethat we saw where they were
future Bill and Ted.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
So they are now future Bill and Ted Uh-huh.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
And we learn from Rufus at that time that Ted has
been saying like, oh, we've gotplenty of time, like we've got
like 10 hours, and Rufus says,no, you only have two hours
because, like you forgot to windyour watch, even though he
reminds himself to wind hiswatch several times.
So they go forward so thattheir Ted's watch is correct.
(19:13):
They're on like current Cindymistime, so it's like 1230 in
the afternoon and they go toDeacon like where's Napoleon?
He's like, oh, we ditched him.
Like what are we going to do?
They take historical figures toSan Dimas Mall and they give
them slushies.
And now the specific historyreport is what would these
(19:38):
historical figures think of SanDimas in 1988?
So there's actually good reason.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Oh, so there's a reason for them to bring him,
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
So they are like where are we going to find
Napoleon?
Where would you be?
And we have already been toldthat in the future, in 2688,
there's so many water slidesmore than any other planet that
we're in contact with.
And then at one point, tedoffers someone a ticket to the
(20:08):
Waterloo water park.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
So they're like yeah he'd be at Waterloo, waterloo,
uh-huh.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yes, so there is this unreasonably ridiculous scene
of Napoleon going down a waterslide not knowing what it is the
first time, and then havingsuch a good time that he's
shoving children out of the wayto get back up there and go down
again and again and again.
And so Bill and Ted find him.
(20:36):
They pull him out of the water.
They're like no, no, we have togo, we have to go do this.
Meanwhile the other historicalfigures are causing mayhem, kind
of accidentally at the mall.
So Abraham Lincoln goes to getone of those old timey photos
and the guy says, okay, now I'vegotten your photo, I need the
fake beard and the top hat back.
He's like no, these are mine.
(20:57):
Right, the fake beard and thetop hat back.
He's like no, these are mine.
Beethoven starts playing asynthesizer and the salesperson
says like oh, you should trythis.
And shows him like differentways of like doing synthesizer
music, and so he's like having agreat time with that.
Genghis Khan is trying outbaseballs at a sporting goods
store and is like startsdestroying a mannequin because
it startles him.
(21:17):
Joan of Arc sees there's a likeaerobics class going on and so
she pushes the aerobicsinstructor out of the way and
starts doing things herself.
Sigmund Freud, billy the Kidand Socrates are like macking on
these two young women One ofthe best visual gags, because
Sigmund Freud is is has a corndog and like they think that the
(21:41):
.
These girls are gigglingbecause they're interested, but
they're giggling because theythink they're, they're weird and
geeks, and so they call themgeeks and it's it's corn dog,
just kind of drew.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
I am so juvenile.
Yeah, you're a 12-year-old boy.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
I am.
So all of the historicalfigures get arrested and they
end up in Ted's dad's jail.
They try to get them out.
Ted goes to talk to his dad andhis dad's like no, go, pack
your bags.
You're leaving for the militaryschool in Alaska tonight.
And so they're like well, canwe just sneak them out?
Like what if we got your dad'skeys?
(22:25):
And this is you know anotherthrough line.
His dad lost his keys two daysbefore and has accused Ted of
stealing them.
So they're like well, wait aminute.
Like what if we could go backtwo days in time and steal them
before we lost them?
And he's like well, we can't dothat because we don't have time
before the report.
Well, we could go after thereport.
So there's this whole thingwhere they're like okay, I just
(22:49):
have to remember that afterwe're done the history report,
to use the time machine to goback and steal the keys and
leave them right here.
So that's what they do.
They break everyone out of jail.
And the same thing with thetrash can they basically have
their future selves?
Take care of things in thepresent?
They give their report at thevery last minute.
(23:09):
They get there just in time anddo an amazing job making it
clear that they truly dounderstand the historical
significance of these importantfigures.
It's not just because I justkind of remembered it as being
silly, but like, as they'reintroducing each one, it's like
it's still not quite bright, butlike they get that.
(23:30):
Like their introduction to Joanof Arc is talking about what
she was able to do prior to age17 and leading France and you
know, making the Dauphin, theking and all of that.
So they get their A+,everything is saved.
And they are back in the garagewhere they are trying to be wild
stallions again and Ted sayslike okay, well, you know, we're
(23:53):
supposed to do this wonderfulthing, but you know, maybe it's
time for us to learn how to playour instruments, because they
don't know how to play.
Rufus returns with the twoprincesses, joanna and Elizabeth
.
He swooped in and got thembefore they had to marry.
The crusty old men then tookthem to San Dimas Mall and
(24:14):
bought them modern clothes andexplains that these two
princesses are also in the bandand encourages them to start
playing.
And it's terrible.
And the very end of the movieis George Carlin looking right
at the camera saying they do getbetter.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
All right, all right.
So we're halfway through theepisode.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
I was really trying to be concise.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
I know it's so hard, so where do you want to start
with this?
You already, along the way,told me that it does not pass
Bechdel because Joanna andElizabeth talk to one another,
but only about men.
So we got that out of the wayduring your plot synopsis.
So where do you want to startwith this?
Speaker 1 (24:50):
I actually want to start and I didn't mention this
offline but fate versus freewill or destiny versus free will
?
Yeah, or destiny versus freewill yeah.
This movie actually has somereally interesting things to say
about that, as does thefranchise, because we are given
to believe that Bill and Ted aredestined to become wild
(25:11):
stallions and destined to createthis perfect society with their
way of looking at the world,which is be excellent to each
other and party on dudes, butit's in peril, like there's a
possibility that might nothappen, even though we know it's
destined, because of, like, themechanics of time travel.
And so the reason why I like Ipointed out that at that point
(25:32):
where Ted says to Bill, maybe weshould learn to play our
instruments Throughout the film,is this like enthusiastic wish
fulfillment for the kind of likegarage band guys who, like you
know, they love Eddie Van Helenand they, like they worship all
this music stuff.
(25:52):
And so, like the idea of like,not only do we build this
amazing band, but this bandchanges the world, that is wish
fulfillment.
But you got to do the hard work, and so, like I feel like
there's something really lovelyand delightful about what this
film is saying, which is thateven if you have a destiny, you
(26:15):
still have to work for it andthat there are still changes
along the way that can be madeand that it's not like they get
this magical fix to their lives,but they still have to work for
it.
Even with a magical fix, it'sstill not guaranteed.
It's still not guaranteed.
And even that like if they hadjust shown up with their
(26:36):
historical figures and notdemonstrated their understanding
because Mr Ryan in the back isprobably assuming these are just
actors Sure Like no one's goingto believe that you're actually
, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Well, also, they don't actually speak much
English, many of them Well themajority like that is one issue
with it.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
There's only one non-European or American figure,
and that's Genghis Khan, andonly one woman.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Sure, yes, 100%.
And like Napoleon is speakingFrench and Socrates is speaking
ancient Greek and Joan of Arc isspeaking French, presumably
Beethoven.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
German.
Yeah, I think German Freudspeaks English, but with an
accent.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Oh, yeah, freud should be speaking German too.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
He was fluent in English as far as I understand
it.
Oh yeah, I didn't know that.
I believe yeah Cool andknowledge of that might be
coming from this movie.
I'm going to look it up and putit in the show notes, anyway.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
so my point is just that if, if we were to take this
very, very seriously, mr ryancan't like even get from the
actors like so yeah, anyway okay, carry on.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
And so so that I don't know if you've seen the in
2020 they came out with a thirdone bill and ted face the music
.
Nope, it's basically the, asimilar kind of lesson in that,
like you can't rest on yourdestiny, you really do need, you
need to work for it, you needto make the connections, you
need to like learn how to playyour instruments, and just
(28:11):
because there is a good destinyyou're heading towards or even
like a, good intentions are notgoing to be enough.
Realizing that that was, youknow, built into this ridiculous
movie was kind of nice.
Yeah, that's cool.
And especially because Bill andTed are such charming characters
, like you can even tell thattheir teacher, who's very
(28:33):
no-nonsense, doesn't want tofail them, like he doesn't want
them to be in this situation,because these are really sweet,
well-meaning kids, just not thebrightest bulbs in the bunch and
people don't expect much ofthem.
And the one villain is Ted'sfather, who is looking for this
(28:56):
kind of conformity anddiscipline from his son and not
seeing the sunny nature and theoptimism and the kind of joy
that Ted brings to the world andnot recognizing the benefit of
that, and so there's this senseof non-conformity.
So one of the things that Ithink is also really lovely and
(29:20):
sweet in this movie is that weget to see each of these
historical figures as just humanbeings as well.
Now everything is turned up to11, because it's ridiculous.
And you know, they accept timetravel way more easily than they
should, right.
(29:40):
But there is something veryhuman in there like, oh, what is
this?
And just being silly and havingfun, like Napoleon's joy at
going through those water slides, is kind of delightful, and
it's one of the things that Iread that surprised me is that
historians actually kind of likethis movie, and in part because
(30:03):
it contextualizes the humanityof major historic figures.
And so, you know, obviously ina very pop culture like this is
the pop understanding ofhistorical figures.
But the fact that we recognizethat these figures are people
(30:24):
rather than you know just likefigures, you know, just
something that you read about ina book, right, and so, like I
find that really fascinatingthat this silly movie is able to
do that.
The other thing that I readthat historians really
appreciate about this and that Ifound fascinating is that the
(30:46):
scene that I mentioned, whenthey're in 15th century England
and they're like who should webring back with us?
And they ask someone local, isthere a person of historical
significance?
Here?
There is a type of historicalstudy called subaltern history
or subaltern study that gainedmore prominence after this film
(31:09):
among historians and academics,which looks at history from the
bottom up instead of the topdown.
So, instead of looking at thebig name historical figures like
the kings, looks at theday-to-day life of the common
people, because that is just ashistorically rich and important
(31:31):
and interesting as the lives ofthe ones who are in the history
textbooks Sure, the historytextbooks.
And so the fact that Bill andTed, who are not the brightest
bulbs, kind of get to that andthe film originally intended for
(31:53):
them to bring John the Surfback with them, makes it clear
even that, mr Ryan, theirteacher, was not teaching that
kind of history.
And so they are bringing thislevel of inquiry and curiosity
to the study of history thatthey haven't learned in school.
Oh, interesting.
And because it was emerging inthe late 80s.
So a high school historyteacher is unlikely to be using
(32:17):
that as part of his curricula.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
That I found really, really cool and also kind of
gets to the why it's believablethat these two lunkheads would
become the fathers of thisincredible movement that leads
to, you know, world peace andharmony, because they sort of
stumble onto, even like, a viewof history that elevates, or at
(32:43):
least takes seriously theeveryday person as opposed to
the people who have, whosedecisions shape so-called shape
the course of history yes, yeah,yeah, so, and like talk about
layers.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
That, I think, is really kind of fascinating that
they were able to do that.
Chris Matheson and Ed Solomonwere the two writers and it was
directed by Stephen Herrick, andStephen Herrick went on to
direct Adventures in Babysitting.
Huh, so Solomon and Mathesonhad actually come up with these
(33:23):
characters in an improv class.
Oh, interesting.
And so now Matheson is the sonof Richard Matheson, who is a
very well-known sci-fi andhorror writer.
He wrote I Am Legend.
What Dreams May Come.
That guy, matheson, was a majorinfluence on Stephen King, which
is how I know Matheson and whyI've read him.
(33:43):
And so Chris Matheson did notwant to do anything sci-fi,
because he feels like it'sassociated with his father.
But as they were planning andwriting this film, the history
part was just going to be oneskit and his father said no,
that's an entire movie rightthere.
So they did some reallyinteresting things with this
(34:04):
film, in that it is very tightlywritten and really well
constructed and it's aridiculous time travel movie.
So what I mean by that is whenwe meet Ted's father, he's
looking for his keys and he'syelling at Ted, did you take my
(34:25):
keys?
When Rufus is giving us thismonologue at the beginning about
how great the world is.
In 2688, he mentions waterslides.
When future Bill and Ted tellremind Ted, wind your watch,
they don't say why, but we thenimmediately after see Rufus say
like time in San Dimas willremain the same, so keep track
(34:47):
of what's going on on your watchand that is something that,
especially in filmmaking theticking clock is really an
important aspect of filmmakingand is something you need to
work around with a time travelmovie because, yeah, totally
Because you have all the timeyou need, yeah.
Yeah, it's the reason why youknow they need the plutonium or
(35:10):
else a bolt of lightning.
In Back to the Future, right,like if you've got something
that's a time machine that cando anything.
You got to find a way tonaturally create that urgency.
And then the scene in the jailwhere they're like okay, I just
have to remember to do this inthe future, because there's a
(35:32):
couple other things that they do.
They also do a tape recorder ofTed's voice to distract his
father and he has to time it tostart at exactly 2.13.
That is so playful because itis acknowledging the paradox and
inherent absurdity of timetravel stories while also giving
(35:54):
you a satisfying way of dealingwith it and also telling the
same destiny versus free willthing Because, like, well, we
know what happened, because it'slike it just happened, but I
still have to remember to do it.
I mean, it's just.
It's really remarkable how muchthey have like in terms of
(36:16):
story construction.
This is just a delightfullywell-constructed story from
beginning to end.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
It feels like another example of what we often talk
about, about people who take themedium or the challenge
seriously without takingthemselves seriously.
That's what it feels like,absolutely yeah yeah, they
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
They took the storytelling seriously, like
they knew they were telling aridiculous movie, like they knew
.
I mean, like this is silly, butat the same time that doesn't
mean you don't havecraftsmanship Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Yeah, that was like really,really well done.
And then, in terms of casting,so apparently Keanu Reeves read
(36:56):
for Bill and Alex Winter readfor Ted.
They didn't know.
Like once they'd read for them,the director was like no, no,
no, let's switch them.
And they didn't know until theygot there, like oh, I'm paying
Ted, okay, wow.
And I don't know if Reeves andWinter have any kind of like
outside of the filming chemistryor friendship or anything like
(37:19):
that but they have this amazingchemistry as friends on screen
Now, and that is one of thethings like because, in part
because this is how we wereintroduced to Reeves, people
think of him as like dumbSouthern California dude,
because we were introduced tohim like this.
And then we saw him in PointBreak, where he also like does
(37:40):
not necessarily get the bestlines and he also kind of got a
little bit typecast.
But the thing is, I think thisfilm also shows both his and
Winter's skill as actors,because for one thing, they're
playing like.
I believe they're teenagers,even though they're both in
their early 20s.
At that point, and you believethat their relationship, their
(38:08):
chemistry, their devotion toeach other as best friends and
their ability to like play offof each other.
You know, when one's not surewhat to do, and they turn to
each other and like it's really,really well done.
And so that is kind of related,I think, to the take the craft
seriously, but not yourself,because I don't think people
recognize until much later inhis career that Reeves takes the
(38:30):
craft.
Absurd, exactly.
Yeah, that's really.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
So the fact that he was so absurd is actually proof
of his craftsmanship.
Yeah, yes, Interesting.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
So.
And Alex Winter he has mostlybeen a stage actor, so he came
from, I think, broadway beforethis and then has done much like
a great deal on stage after.
So like that's the one thing ispeople think of.
Like oh, this launched reeves'scareer what happened to winters
?
And it's.
It's not that anything happenedto him, it's just that he's a
stage actor and I think that'sgenerally like.
(39:09):
I think he likes that.
Better be my guess, I don'tknow.
So there's a lot to lovethere's a lot to love.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
I heard you say.
I mean you told you said in thebeginning there was a few
things that don't age well.
You named at least one, whichwas when they use the F slur for
queer folks because they hugone another, which is like it's
super toxic masculinity.
And then I feel like there'salso like the something around
the Joanna and Elizabethpotentially.
(39:37):
Is there anything else thatfeels like kind of oh yeah, this
was made in the 80s, the CGI.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
There is also like the treatment of women.
So Missy, the stepmothercharacter, yeah yeah, oh yeah,
now it is not as bad as I wasafraid it was going to be.
So, as I was watching and likeI did not remember that subplot
at all, and so like the firsttime you see Missy, she's
driving a convertible and shepulls up as Bill and Ted are
(40:08):
leaving the school and she goeshey, bill, do you want to ride?
And he's like sure, missy.
And then she gives him thislook, he's like I'm sorry, mom.
And so like they get in the carand they go and Ted is saying
like your mom is super cute andlike do you remember when she
was a senior and we werefreshmen?
And it's not great.
(40:28):
So there's a point where they goto Bill's house and they're
working on.
This is before they meet Rufusat the Circle K.
They're working on the reportthere and Missy comes in and
says like I brought some foodfor you boys.
And then Bill's dad comes inand Missy kind of leans over to
put the food down and like yousee Bill and Ted both kind of
(40:48):
like checking her out.
And then the dad comes in andyou can see him checking her out
from behind.
And then he says boys, whydon't you take a dinner break
and give some money?
And that's why they end up atthe Circle K and there's just,
it's icky, yeah.
And so Bill and Ted have aconversation about it, about
like Ted is just like she'sreally really hot.
(41:11):
Remember I asked her to promand Bill keeps saying, like stop
, it's gross, don't tell me.
And like, but she's your mom,she's not really my mom, but the
actual interplay between Missyand the boys is generally really
kind of lovely.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
So yeah, but the subplot like the joke that the
dad's a pedophile, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
It's so weird, it's so gross.
So when they get back on theday of their report, they end up
in Bill's backyard Missy'swatering the garden, and they
introduce her to all thehistorical figures.
But they're trying to pretendthey're not historical figures.
So they're like, oh, this isDave Beathoven.
And she's just like, oh, it'slovely to meet you all.
(42:01):
And they asked like, well, canyou give us a ride somewhere?
And she's like, no, bill, notuntil your chores are done.
So all the historical figureshelp them with their chores.
And then she drives them aroundand is like delighted to be
there at their report and isvery supportive.
And it's this very weirdsituation that's weird.
(42:22):
So between Missy and thenJoanna and Elizabeth, women are
like trophies.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
But not no, totally trophies.
They have personalities,exactly.
Yeah, it's like so.
They're more than a cardboardcutout, but they're still
trophies.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Exactly yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
It's like so they're more than a cardboard cutout,
but they're still trophies, yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
So it feels like Solomon and Matheson didn't want
them to just be trophies, Likethey were like okay, this is not
how it should be, but theydidn't know how to go further
than just give thempersonalities.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Yeah yeah, they didn't know how to make them
actual people with agency.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they didn'tknow how to make them actual
people with agency.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
So and Joan of Arc is kind of the only female
character in who's an actualperson with agency and she is
played by one of the Go-Go's.
Oh, interesting Jane.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Weidland so Cool.
There was one other thing we'rerunning out of time, but I know
you wanted to mention thecostume integrity.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Yes, thank you.
Thank you for reminding me.
So the other thing that I foundvery surprising is apparently
there is someone who doescostumes professionally in
Hollywood surprising.
Apparently there is someone whodoes costumes professionally in
Hollywood, who she uses Billand Ted as the benchmark for
good costuming, specifically thescene where Beethoven is taken
from, where he's giving aconcert, because all of the
(43:44):
costume is historicallyappropriate and accurate and it
is a very short scene and no onehas any lines other than
Beethoven and so it's just.
All these extras are like,perfectly outfitted in
historically accurate clothingwhich is taking the craft
seriously.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Yeah, yeah, cool.
Well, let me see if I canreflect back to you some of the
key things from this ridiculousand fun little movie.
It's fun because in some ways,this time travel movie, this
ridiculous time travel movie, isa little bit of a time capsule,
with the toxic masculinity interms of the homophobia and in
(44:26):
terms of the treatment of womenlike better than trophies but
not yet fully formed humanbeings, and the weirdness with
the stepmother and the si chi.
But at the same time, like inits context, these filmmakers
took their craft very, veryseriously.
They took their story very,very seriously.
They took seriously the idea oftime travel and the sort of
(44:50):
consequences of time travel whenthinking about fate or destiny
versus work, and the fact thatit's not a either or it's
actually a both and, and sothat's kind of interesting to me
that part of taking time travelseriously is actually wrestling
with that conversation arounddestiny and effort.
(45:12):
Historians like this moviesomewhat surprisingly to me, for
several reasons.
One is that it really humanizessome of these historical
figures and reminds us thatthey're not just like literary
characters but were actuallyhuman beings who liked ice cream
and played catch or whatever,or at least had the capacity for
(45:33):
it.
Might have, might have Right,could have done those things.
They were human beings who hadall of the things that human
beings have, and also historianslike it, because we get sort of
a baked in subaltern studieskind of a view of like a
grassroots rather than a grasstops, if I can apply that to
(45:53):
history thinking, reminding usthat there is historical
interest and significance in thelives of everyday people, not
just the people who were makingdecisions that had sort of
historical consequences, thatchanged the so-called course of
history, and that's a thing thatis that was starting to become
popular academically at the timethat this movie was made.
(46:14):
So that's kind of reallyinteresting.
I mean, the museum for which Iworked for a while we collected
stuff of everyday people, notjust things that were from the
folks who might be householdnames.
So it sounds very familiar tome and for me personally being
reminded that that's not a thingthat I was always looked at as
really cool and interesting.
(46:34):
I think we named the gender aspart of the time capsule thing,
so it does not pass the Bechdeltest.
We see Joan of Arc, the onlysort of fully formed human woman
, in the cast, and so that'sreally also kind of interesting
that she's an unhistoricalfigure and she's the only one
(46:54):
who got that full treatment.
I think those were the keythings that you named.
Maybe there was one other.
Did I miss something?
Speaker 1 (47:03):
I talked a little bit about how this launched Keanu
Reeves' career.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
And then people kind of typecast him, even though I
feel like this is evidence ofhis.
That was the character he wasplaying, and so there's a
paradox in that.
That, like he did it so wellthat we thought he was not a
good actor.
So there's something sort ofinteresting in that, and also
the fact that his co-staractually did have a career just
on the stage, not in movies.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Yeah, Cool, yeah.
And then I want to likereiterate there is something I
don't want to say realistic, butrealistic in the idea that
these two kind of dunderheadscould bumble into world peace
because they are so enthusiasticand compassionate and sunny and
(48:03):
joyful, and just there's asweetness and a heart underneath
of them, of each of them, bothin the way they interact with
each other and with thehistorical figures, and just in
general.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
They also, as we said , like sort of accidentally,
were co-creating subalternstudies while it was being
created in the 80s.
So there's something to that.
I'll just end where we started,which is that you know, if this
were released today, there werethose on the right who would
claim it was woke pop again.
So, yeah, yeah, what am I doingnext week?
(48:38):
Next time it's me.
Oh, isn't it Galaxy Quest?
Yes, next time I am going to betalking to you about another
absurd movie with a sci-fi twist, and that is Galaxy Quest.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
I can't wait.
Love that movie.
See you then.
See you then.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
This show is a labor of love, but that doesn't make
it free to produce.
If you enjoy it even half asmuch as we do, please consider
helping to keep us overthinking.
You can support us at ourPatreon there's a link in the
show notes or leave a positivereview so others can find us and
, of course, share the show withyour people.
Thanks for listening.
(49:22):
Our theme music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin MacLeod from
incompetechcom.
Find full music credits in theshow notes.
Thank you to ResonateRecordings for editing today's
episode.
Until next time, remember popculture is still culture, and
shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
There's just something lovely and charming
about Bill and Ted as characters, and I wanted to see if they
still were 35 years later,because there's this exuberance,
this optimism, this sweetnessand joy to them that I
(00:20):
remembered and I was hoping thatit was still there, and I think
it is, although there are somethings that definitely didn't
age well.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Have you ever had something you love dismissed
because it's just pop culture,what others might deem stupid
shit?
You know matters, you knowwhat's worth talking and
thinking about, and so do we.
So come overthink with us as wedelve into our deep thoughts
about stupid shit.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
I'm Emily Guy-Burken and you're listening to Deep
Thoughts About Stupid Shit,because pop culture is still
culture, and shouldn't you knowwhat's in your head?
On today's episode, I'll besharing my deep thoughts about
the 1989 film Bill and Ted'sExcellent Adventure with my
sister, tracy Guy-Decker, andwith you, let's dive in.
So, tracy, I know you've seenthis movie.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Definitely seen this movie.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Tell me what's in the furniture of your brain about
it.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, so there's a lot, although it's very
disjointed.
But I remember a time travelingphone booth that, unlike the
TARDIS, is not bigger on theinside, it's just a phone booth
and my recollection is thatthese two guys, keanu Reeves and
the other one, alex Winter Him,they need to get an A on their
(01:41):
history project for some reason,and so they're using the time
machine to like meet historicalfigures and they bring them back
.
And I remember, like themispronouncing people's names,
like Socrates they call Socrates, and I remember, at the end, a
thing where they're like oh, wecan have so-and-so, do such and
such, and then like a trash canshows up on somebody's head or
something like that, and thewhole punchline is be excellent
(02:06):
to each other and that like anew religion is created based on
that, which is really, I mean,in our current climate, like,
I'll take it y'all.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I will take the excellent to each other.
Re-watching this film, I couldimagine if it came out today it
would be like this is wokepropaganda.
This film I I could imagine ifit came out today it would be
like this is woke propaganda,yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
So I mean like that's basically what I got.
I remember enjoying itimmensely, like immensely in the
in the late 80s, early 90s,like just finding it hilarious
and finding bill and ted likecute and just really liking it.
But those are like just thelittle, like flashes that I have
(02:55):
.
I have no sense of an actualplot or dialogue except for
socrates and be excellent toeach other.
Oh, I do remember.
No, no, that's Wayne's World.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
That's Wayne's World Anyway that strange things are
afoot at the Circle K.
No, no, that's part of thefurniture of my brain.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, that's all I got.
That's all I got.
But tell me, besides the factthat it's woke propaganda, why
are we talking about it today?
Speaker 1 (03:25):
So a couple of reasons.
One I have had a crush on KeanuReeves for going on 40 years
almost now.
Same same.
So maybe not quite that long,but 35 years and started with
this movie.
Yeah, this is the movie thatlaunched him to stardom.
I also there was a point intime in the 90s where it was a
(03:45):
lot of it was kind of consideredacceptable to kind of shit on
Keanu Reeves as a bad actor andso like in the past few years
where it's become clear what alike just a mensch he is or
appears to be.
I'm being very careful.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I don't want to call anybody a mensch at this point.
Like public figure.
Yeah, very careful, as ifthey'd call anybody a mention at
this point.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Like public figure.
Yeah, like when he takes photoswith fans, he makes sure his
hand hovers behind them, hedoesn't touch them, so like
stuff like that.
And he has said I have moremoney than I can ever possibly
dream of spending in my lifetimeand so he makes sure he gives
back, because what's he going toneed more money for?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah, he's Hawaiian, isn't he?
Mm-hmm, yeah, so also nice,right after our Lilo and Stitch
conversation last week, to talkabout another famous Hawaiian.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yes.
So that's part of it.
Part of it is like I love timetravel movies and you know the
80s were big on like we hadquite a few.
I mean, we had Back to theFuture, and then, just a couple
years later, this and then thisis a movie that I kind of
associate with our cousin Chris.
I feel like the three of uswatched it together.
(04:56):
There's just something lovelyand charming about Bill and Ted
as characters, and I wanted tosee if they still were 35 years
later, because there's thisexuberance, this optimism, this
sweetness and joy to them that Iremembered and I was hoping
(05:18):
that it was still there and Ithink it is, although there are
some things that definitelydidn't age well.
So that's kind of why I wasinterested in it.
And then, having just rewatchedit and done a little bit of
research, apparently historiansare fans of this movie.
Oh, that's cool For a number ofreasons, although they also
have some valid critiques, but Ithink it's silly fun that
(05:46):
actually has a lot more beneathit than you might think.
So you know, it's our thing.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Yeah, that is our thing Silly fun with a lot more
beneath Cool.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I'll give you a rundown of the plot such as it
is.
Okay, we are introduced to SanDimas, california, in 2688, 700
years in the future of when thefilm takes place 1988.
And we are introduced to Rufus,played by George Carlin, who
explains how that humanity hasachieved this utopia where water
(06:18):
is clean, air is clean, eventhe dirt is clean, and it is all
because of the influence of aband called Wild Stallions.
However, they are in peril in1988 because it is possible they
are about to the.
Bill S Preston Esquire, playedby Alex Winter, and Ted Theodore
(06:39):
Logan, played by Keanu Reeves,may be separated if they fail
their history class, becauseTed's father, who is the chief
of police, is going to send himto military school in Alaska if
he flunks.
So to pass their test.
There is this.
It's an oral report and it'slike a whole school oral report
(07:00):
the next day on historicalfigures, and their teacher makes
it clear to them if you can getan A-plus on this and pass, but
anything less than that, thenyou're going to fail.
So, in addition to Ted's father, we meet Bill's father and his
stepmother, who was a senior inhigh school when Bill and Ted
were freshmen and who tells themto say hi to Mr Ryan, their
(07:24):
teacher Boy.
Yeah, and so there's aconsistent like he calls her
Missy, and she'll be like no,call me mom, which doesn't feel
like what a 22 year old wouldactually be saying to a 17 or 18
year old yeah.
So we meet those characters andBill and Ted end up at the
Circle K and Rufus arrives inthe time machine that looks like
(07:48):
a phone booth, but isn't theTARDIS.
It is not the TARDIS and hestarts telling him what's going
on.
And then another phone boothshows up with future Bill and
Ted there who come out and tellcurrent Bill and Ted that they
should listen to Rufus, thatthey should make sure that they
do what Rufus says, and currentBill and Ted test future Bill
(08:12):
and Ted to see like well, how dowe know you're not lying to us?
How do you know you're reallyus?
If you're really us, you'lltell us what number we're
thinking of 69, dude yeah, Iremember that as soon as you
said it.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Dude yeah, I remember that as soon as you said it.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
The future.
Bill and Ted go away.
They get in the not-tardis withRufus and he takes them to 1805
and to one of Napoleon'sbattles and Napoleon is
accidentally pulled with themback because Rufus just takes
him to show them and then hetakes them back to right outside
(08:45):
of Ted's house and Napoleon hasaccidentally come with them.
Rufus then says you guys are onyour own, you need to take care
of this.
And he makes it clear that thetime in San Dimas will continue
moving at the same rate.
Even as they're moving, theydon't have infinite time.
They still have to be ready by2.45 the next afternoon, which
(09:07):
is when they have to give theirpresentation.
So they discover that Napoleonhas followed them by accident
and they ask Ted's littlebrother, deacon, to take care of
Napoleon while they're offgathering other.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I vaguely remember Napoleon saying Merred, merred,
merred, merred, over and, overand over again, and the subtitle
not actually reflecting what hewas saying.
Is that accurate?
Well, it did, when I watched ittoday.
It did say shit, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
They then go to New Mexico in 1879 and end up saving
Billy the Kid's life and thentake him with them.
They then go to ancient Greeceand they encourage Socrates to
come with them.
Like is he?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
about to drink the hemlock?
No, no, no.
Did they save his life too?
Speaker 1 (09:58):
No, they don't save his life.
He is like speaking to students.
There's like a bowl of sand andhe's making and they tell us
what he's saying.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Oh, like.
So through the hour, like thesands through the hourglass, so
are the days of our lives.
Is that what he's saying?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Well, he doesn't say that until after.
Like they tell him, like we'reall but dust in the wind.
All we are is dust in the wind.
That's so stupid.
And like he doesn't understand.
Because this is another thingthat I think is really
interesting nobody speaksenglish.
If they didn't, they don'tspeak english.
(10:34):
Yeah, and so like they, theyhave to kind of like mime to and
, and he gets what they'resaying and he finds it so
profound, so so they take himback.
Then they end up in the middleage, in the 15th century.
In England.
They don't have anyone specificin mind.
Like pretty much every othertime period they go to, they
(10:55):
have someone specific they'regoing to grab.
They don't have anyone specificin mind, and so they ask Billy
the Kid to keep an eye on thephone booth and on Socrates.
Ted had his backpack and he hada little football in it, and so
there's a point.
But this is such ridiculoushumor.
(11:15):
You can see Ted and Bill aretalking in the foreground and in
the background Billy the Kidand Socrates are passing this
toy football back and forth.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
So of a pass in this toy football pack.
So Socrates and Billy the Kidare playing catch Cool.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
And, like Billy, the Kid has to teach it to him.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
He has to teach him how to play catch.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
So it's ridiculous, it's so silly.
They don't know who they'relooking for there.
So they ask, like there's abunch of commoners walking by
like hey, is there a person ofhistorical significance nearby?
And the guy points to a castleup ahead.
One of the two of them says ohwait, what about that gnarly
(12:02):
goat-looking guy?
Let's take him.
And originally this issomething I just found out today
in the original script theywere going to take the
goat-looking guy who was namedJohn the Surf, who was just a
dude.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
He's just a dude.
He looks like a goat to them.
That's why they say that yeah,okay.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
And that's not what ended up happening.
So they do have a shenanigans.
This is one of the longerhistorical periods they spend
time in, because Ted sees twoyoung women on a balcony and
Bill says to him like no, we'rehere for a history report, not a
babe report.
And he's like but they'rehistorical babes.
(12:42):
So they head into the castle.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
They end up coming back to the, to the future with
them, like right, yeah, okay,yeah, you'll get there.
Sorry, I'll get there.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, so they.
They head into the castle, theyput on some suits of armor that
they find and they're.
They're like pretend fightingas one does as one does.
I mean well, honestly, maybenot now, but when I was 17, yeah
, I think I probably wanna.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I don't, yeah, okay, I have a feeling that, like I
wonder how historians talk aboutthat, because I have a feeling
that it's much heavier and moredifficult to dawn say then
that's one of the things theysay oh really, this is heavy.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
And they make a joke about heavy metal and do the
thing that they do.
And actually, Ted, becausethey're like sword fighting
they're like, hey, we can fightwith swords now.
And Ted ends up falling down aset of stairs and, like, Bill
follows, is like dude, are youokay?
And he sees what looks likeTed's body lying at the bottom
(13:46):
of the stairs and another knightcomes over and like, pierces
the armor with sword.
And so Bill thinks Ted is dead.
He waits until everyone leaves,he goes down.
He's like, oh my God, you know,this is totally bogus, or you
know all the things that theysay, or all the things that they
say.
And then the knight comes backand is attacking Bill and then
(14:13):
Ted comes out of nowhere.
It's in a kitchen and he hasthis huge lamb shank bone and he
bops the knight over the headand calls him a bonehead.
He totally boned him, oh my God.
And Ted explains he fell out ofthe armor when he fell down the
stairs, which, whatever, doesn'tmake sense, but it doesn't need
to, it's a cartoon.
It's a cartoon.
So and they hug because, like,Bill really thought he was dead.
(14:34):
And this is the thing thatreally doesn't age.
Well, they hug and then, asthey're hugging, they both say
ugh and use the slang the um theF word.
Yeah, they both say ugh and usethe slang the um the F word.
Yeah, Not that one.
I can say fuck.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
The slur, the slur, no-transcript.
Be excellent to each other.
Yeah, so they run into the twoyoung women.
They are princesses, princessJoanna and Princess Elizabeth.
They both have names.
They do talk to each other, butonly about the crusty old men
they are going to be forced tomarry that day, I see.
(15:10):
So they recognize Bill and Tedand they had been like kind of
like waving like hi to them atthe balcony.
They talk a little bit and Billand Ted say like're gonna get
you out of here.
You don't have to marry thosemen if you don't want to.
And they open a door andthere's their father, who
presumably is the king, whoorders them to be executed
immediately, although at firsthe says put them in the Iron
(15:32):
Maiden.
And they think that is awesome.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
He orders Bill and Ted to be executed.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yes, got it and he and he wants them in the, if he
wants to put them in the ironmaiden.
They go, iron maiden, right,right.
So they are like at a choppingblock to have their heads
chopped off.
And there are two like maskedexecutioners and there's a cart.
Someone found the phone boothand had brought it forward and
(15:59):
they were saying like they'reblasphemers, they're witches
because they fell from the sky.
And the executioners bring downthe axes and it cuts the ropes
that have Bill and Ted tied upand it turns out it going on
with the time travel machine.
The phone booth is acting, it'son the fritz.
(16:22):
They end up going I thinkthat's when they go to.
They end up going to the future, the 2688, where Rufus is from,
and they see the three mostimportant people in the world.
That's what they're named andit's three famous musicians who
I don't actually like.
The actors playing them arefamous musicians.
One of them worked the E StreetBand, bruce Springsteen Thank
(16:44):
you, he was someone who'swell-known for working with
Bruce Springsteen and then twoother artists who I'm not
familiar with, and so they thethree most important people in
the world.
And then other people come inand they're doing the air guitar
thing.
And so they're like we shouldsay something to them.
And so Bill and Ted tell thembe excellent to each other and
party on dudes.
(17:04):
And they are very, very pleased.
And so they get back into thephone booth and they end up
grabbing in quick successionBeethoven, beath, oven, right
Beethoven, beethoven, genghisKhan, abraham Lincoln and Joan
of Arc.
And then they because thingsare on the fritz and I might be
(17:29):
a little bit out of order wherethey go when they end up in
10,000 BCE?
Oh, like with cavemen kind of athing, yeah, and there actually
are cave people and they haveto fix the phone booth with
chewing gum.
So they have all thesehistorical personages chewing
gum and passing it over.
(17:50):
Meanwhile, in San Dimas of 1988,deacon is taking Napoleon
around.
He takes him to a place calledZiggy Piggy where they have this
huge bowl of ice cream thatDeacon and his two friends and
then Napoleon are all eatingtogether.
And Napoleon at first is likewhat is this?
And they're like it's ice cream.
(18:10):
And he kind of tastes it.
He's like, oh, la Glace.
And I was like did they haveice cream in 1805?
I'm going to have to look thatup.
And so he's like fighting thelittle kids for the ice cream.
Then they take him bowling andthat's when he does the merd,
merd, merd, merd.
He's not good at bowling, andDeacon and his friends end up
(18:32):
ditching Napoleon becausethey're just Because he's
annoying, he's annoying, they'resick of him.
I remember that.
Because they're just Becausehe's annoying, he's annoying,
they're sick of him.
I remember that.
So Bill and Ted come back tothe current time.
They end up in that first scenethat we saw where they were
future Bill and Ted.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
So they are now future Bill and Ted Uh-huh.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
And we learn from Rufus at that time that Ted has
been saying like, oh, we've gotplenty of time, like we've got
like 10 hours, and Rufus says,no, you only have two hours
because, like you forgot to windyour watch, even though he
reminds himself to wind hiswatch several times.
So they go forward so thattheir Ted's watch is correct.
(19:13):
They're on like current Cindymistime, so it's like 1230 in
the afternoon and they go toDeacon like where's Napoleon?
He's like, oh, we ditched him.
Like what are we going to do?
They take historical figures toSan Dimas Mall and they give
them slushies.
And now the specific historyreport is what would these
(19:38):
historical figures think of SanDimas in 1988?
So there's actually good reason.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Oh, so there's a reason for them to bring him,
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
So they are like where are we going to find
Napoleon?
Where would you be?
And we have already been toldthat in the future, in 2688,
there's so many water slidesmore than any other planet that
we're in contact with.
And then at one point, tedoffers someone a ticket to the
(20:08):
Waterloo water park.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
So they're like yeah he'd be at Waterloo, waterloo,
uh-huh.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yes, so there is this unreasonably ridiculous scene
of Napoleon going down a waterslide not knowing what it is the
first time, and then havingsuch a good time that he's
shoving children out of the wayto get back up there and go down
again and again and again.
And so Bill and Ted find him.
(20:36):
They pull him out of the water.
They're like no, no, we have togo, we have to go do this.
Meanwhile the other historicalfigures are causing mayhem, kind
of accidentally at the mall.
So Abraham Lincoln goes to getone of those old timey photos
and the guy says, okay, now I'vegotten your photo, I need the
fake beard and the top hat back.
He's like no, these are mine.
(20:57):
Right, the fake beard and thetop hat back.
He's like no, these are mine.
Beethoven starts playing asynthesizer and the salesperson
says like oh, you should trythis.
And shows him like differentways of like doing synthesizer
music, and so he's like having agreat time with that.
Genghis Khan is trying outbaseballs at a sporting goods
store and is like startsdestroying a mannequin because
it startles him.
(21:17):
Joan of Arc sees there's a likeaerobics class going on and so
she pushes the aerobicsinstructor out of the way and
starts doing things herself.
Sigmund Freud, billy the Kidand Socrates are like macking on
these two young women One ofthe best visual gags, because
Sigmund Freud is is has a corndog and like they think that the
(21:41):
.
These girls are gigglingbecause they're interested, but
they're giggling because theythink they're, they're weird and
geeks, and so they call themgeeks and it's it's corn dog,
just kind of drew.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
I am so juvenile.
Yeah, you're a 12-year-old boy.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
I am.
So all of the historicalfigures get arrested and they
end up in Ted's dad's jail.
They try to get them out.
Ted goes to talk to his dad andhis dad's like no, go, pack
your bags.
You're leaving for the militaryschool in Alaska tonight.
And so they're like well, canwe just sneak them out?
Like what if we got your dad'skeys?
(22:25):
And this is you know anotherthrough line.
His dad lost his keys two daysbefore and has accused Ted of
stealing them.
So they're like well, wait aminute.
Like what if we could go backtwo days in time and steal them
before we lost them?
And he's like well, we can't dothat because we don't have time
before the report.
Well, we could go after thereport.
So there's this whole thingwhere they're like okay, I just
(22:49):
have to remember that afterwe're done the history report,
to use the time machine to goback and steal the keys and
leave them right here.
So that's what they do.
They break everyone out of jail.
And the same thing with thetrash can they basically have
their future selves?
Take care of things in thepresent?
They give their report at thevery last minute.
(23:09):
They get there just in time anddo an amazing job making it
clear that they truly dounderstand the historical
significance of these importantfigures.
It's not just because I justkind of remembered it as being
silly, but like, as they'reintroducing each one, it's like
it's still not quite bright, butlike they get that.
(23:30):
Like their introduction to Joanof Arc is talking about what
she was able to do prior to age17 and leading France and you
know, making the Dauphin, theking and all of that.
So they get their A+,everything is saved.
And they are back in the garagewhere they are trying to be wild
stallions again and Ted sayslike okay, well, you know, we're
(23:53):
supposed to do this wonderfulthing, but you know, maybe it's
time for us to learn how to playour instruments, because they
don't know how to play.
Rufus returns with the twoprincesses, joanna and Elizabeth
.
He swooped in and got thembefore they had to marry.
The crusty old men then tookthem to San Dimas Mall and
(24:14):
bought them modern clothes andexplains that these two
princesses are also in the bandand encourages them to start
playing.
And it's terrible.
And the very end of the movieis George Carlin looking right
at the camera saying they do getbetter.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
All right, all right.
So we're halfway through theepisode.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
I was really trying to be concise.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
I know it's so hard, so where do you want to start
with this?
You already, along the way,told me that it does not pass
Bechdel because Joanna andElizabeth talk to one another,
but only about men.
So we got that out of the wayduring your plot synopsis.
So where do you want to startwith this?
Speaker 1 (24:50):
I actually want to start and I didn't mention this
offline but fate versus freewill or destiny versus free will
?
Yeah, or destiny versus freewill yeah.
This movie actually has somereally interesting things to say
about that, as does thefranchise, because we are given
to believe that Bill and Ted aredestined to become wild
(25:11):
stallions and destined to createthis perfect society with their
way of looking at the world,which is be excellent to each
other and party on dudes, butit's in peril, like there's a
possibility that might nothappen, even though we know it's
destined, because of, like, themechanics of time travel.
And so the reason why I like Ipointed out that at that point
(25:32):
where Ted says to Bill, maybe weshould learn to play our
instruments Throughout the film,is this like enthusiastic wish
fulfillment for the kind of likegarage band guys who, like you
know, they love Eddie Van Helenand they, like they worship all
this music stuff.
(25:52):
And so, like the idea of like,not only do we build this
amazing band, but this bandchanges the world, that is wish
fulfillment.
But you got to do the hard work, and so, like I feel like
there's something really lovelyand delightful about what this
film is saying, which is thateven if you have a destiny, you
(26:15):
still have to work for it andthat there are still changes
along the way that can be madeand that it's not like they get
this magical fix to their lives,but they still have to work for
it.
Even with a magical fix, it'sstill not guaranteed.
It's still not guaranteed.
And even that like if they hadjust shown up with their
(26:36):
historical figures and notdemonstrated their understanding
because Mr Ryan in the back isprobably assuming these are just
actors Sure Like no one's goingto believe that you're actually
, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Well, also, they don't actually speak much
English, many of them Well themajority like that is one issue
with it.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
There's only one non-European or American figure,
and that's Genghis Khan, andonly one woman.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Sure, yes, 100%.
And like Napoleon is speakingFrench and Socrates is speaking
ancient Greek and Joan of Arc isspeaking French, presumably
Beethoven.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
German.
Yeah, I think German Freudspeaks English, but with an
accent.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Oh, yeah, freud should be speaking German too.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
He was fluent in English as far as I understand
it.
Oh yeah, I didn't know that.
I believe yeah Cool andknowledge of that might be
coming from this movie.
I'm going to look it up and putit in the show notes, anyway.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
so my point is just that if, if we were to take this
very, very seriously, mr ryancan't like even get from the
actors like so yeah, anyway okay, carry on.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
And so so that I don't know if you've seen the in
2020 they came out with a thirdone bill and ted face the music
.
Nope, it's basically the, asimilar kind of lesson in that,
like you can't rest on yourdestiny, you really do need, you
need to work for it, you needto make the connections, you
need to like learn how to playyour instruments, and just
(28:11):
because there is a good destinyyou're heading towards or even
like a, good intentions are notgoing to be enough.
Realizing that that was, youknow, built into this ridiculous
movie was kind of nice.
Yeah, that's cool.
And especially because Bill andTed are such charming characters
, like you can even tell thattheir teacher, who's very
(28:33):
no-nonsense, doesn't want tofail them, like he doesn't want
them to be in this situation,because these are really sweet,
well-meaning kids, just not thebrightest bulbs in the bunch and
people don't expect much ofthem.
And the one villain is Ted'sfather, who is looking for this
(28:56):
kind of conformity anddiscipline from his son and not
seeing the sunny nature and theoptimism and the kind of joy
that Ted brings to the world andnot recognizing the benefit of
that, and so there's this senseof non-conformity.
So one of the things that Ithink is also really lovely and
(29:20):
sweet in this movie is that weget to see each of these
historical figures as just humanbeings as well.
Now everything is turned up to11, because it's ridiculous.
And you know, they accept timetravel way more easily than they
should, right.
(29:40):
But there is something veryhuman in there like, oh, what is
this?
And just being silly and havingfun, like Napoleon's joy at
going through those water slides, is kind of delightful, and
it's one of the things that Iread that surprised me is that
historians actually kind of likethis movie, and in part because
(30:03):
it contextualizes the humanityof major historic figures.
And so, you know, obviously ina very pop culture like this is
the pop understanding ofhistorical figures.
But the fact that we recognizethat these figures are people
(30:24):
rather than you know just likefigures, you know, just
something that you read about ina book, right, and so, like I
find that really fascinatingthat this silly movie is able to
do that.
The other thing that I readthat historians really
appreciate about this and that Ifound fascinating is that the
(30:46):
scene that I mentioned, whenthey're in 15th century England
and they're like who should webring back with us?
And they ask someone local, isthere a person of historical
significance?
Here?
There is a type of historicalstudy called subaltern history
or subaltern study that gainedmore prominence after this film
(31:09):
among historians and academics,which looks at history from the
bottom up instead of the topdown.
So, instead of looking at thebig name historical figures like
the kings, looks at theday-to-day life of the common
people, because that is just ashistorically rich and important
(31:31):
and interesting as the lives ofthe ones who are in the history
textbooks Sure, the historytextbooks.
And so the fact that Bill andTed, who are not the brightest
bulbs, kind of get to that andthe film originally intended for
(31:53):
them to bring John the Surfback with them, makes it clear
even that, mr Ryan, theirteacher, was not teaching that
kind of history.
And so they are bringing thislevel of inquiry and curiosity
to the study of history thatthey haven't learned in school.
Oh, interesting.
And because it was emerging inthe late 80s.
So a high school historyteacher is unlikely to be using
(32:17):
that as part of his curricula.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
That I found really, really cool and also kind of
gets to the why it's believablethat these two lunkheads would
become the fathers of thisincredible movement that leads
to, you know, world peace andharmony, because they sort of
stumble onto, even like, a viewof history that elevates, or at
(32:43):
least takes seriously theeveryday person as opposed to
the people who have, whosedecisions shape so-called shape
the course of history yes, yeah,yeah, so, and like talk about
layers.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
That, I think, is really kind of fascinating that
they were able to do that.
Chris Matheson and Ed Solomonwere the two writers and it was
directed by Stephen Herrick, andStephen Herrick went on to
direct Adventures in Babysitting.
Huh, so Solomon and Mathesonhad actually come up with these
(33:23):
characters in an improv class.
Oh, interesting.
And so now Matheson is the sonof Richard Matheson, who is a
very well-known sci-fi andhorror writer.
He wrote I Am Legend.
What Dreams May Come.
That guy, matheson, was a majorinfluence on Stephen King, which
is how I know Matheson and whyI've read him.
(33:43):
And so Chris Matheson did notwant to do anything sci-fi,
because he feels like it'sassociated with his father.
But as they were planning andwriting this film, the history
part was just going to be oneskit and his father said no,
that's an entire movie rightthere.
So they did some reallyinteresting things with this
(34:04):
film, in that it is very tightlywritten and really well
constructed and it's aridiculous time travel movie.
So what I mean by that is whenwe meet Ted's father, he's
looking for his keys and he'syelling at Ted, did you take my
(34:25):
keys?
When Rufus is giving us thismonologue at the beginning about
how great the world is.
In 2688, he mentions waterslides.
When future Bill and Ted tellremind Ted, wind your watch,
they don't say why, but we thenimmediately after see Rufus say
like time in San Dimas willremain the same, so keep track
(34:47):
of what's going on on your watchand that is something that,
especially in filmmaking theticking clock is really an
important aspect of filmmakingand is something you need to
work around with a time travelmovie because, yeah, totally
Because you have all the timeyou need, yeah.
Yeah, it's the reason why youknow they need the plutonium or
(35:10):
else a bolt of lightning.
In Back to the Future, right,like if you've got something
that's a time machine that cando anything.
You got to find a way tonaturally create that urgency.
And then the scene in the jailwhere they're like okay, I just
have to remember to do this inthe future, because there's a
(35:32):
couple other things that they do.
They also do a tape recorder ofTed's voice to distract his
father and he has to time it tostart at exactly 2.13.
That is so playful because itis acknowledging the paradox and
inherent absurdity of timetravel stories while also giving
(35:54):
you a satisfying way of dealingwith it and also telling the
same destiny versus free willthing Because, like, well, we
know what happened, because it'slike it just happened, but I
still have to remember to do it.
I mean, it's just.
It's really remarkable how muchthey have like in terms of
(36:16):
story construction.
This is just a delightfullywell-constructed story from
beginning to end.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
It feels like another example of what we often talk
about, about people who take themedium or the challenge
seriously without takingthemselves seriously.
That's what it feels like,absolutely yeah yeah, they
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
They took the storytelling seriously, like
they knew they were telling aridiculous movie, like they knew
.
I mean, like this is silly, butat the same time that doesn't
mean you don't havecraftsmanship Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Yeah, that was like really,really well done.
And then, in terms of casting,so apparently Keanu Reeves read
(36:56):
for Bill and Alex Winter readfor Ted.
They didn't know.
Like once they'd read for them,the director was like no, no,
no, let's switch them.
And they didn't know until theygot there, like oh, I'm paying
Ted, okay, wow.
And I don't know if Reeves andWinter have any kind of like
outside of the filming chemistryor friendship or anything like
(37:19):
that but they have this amazingchemistry as friends on screen
Now, and that is one of thethings like because, in part
because this is how we wereintroduced to Reeves, people
think of him as like dumbSouthern California dude,
because we were introduced tohim like this.
And then we saw him in PointBreak, where he also like does
(37:40):
not necessarily get the bestlines and he also kind of got a
little bit typecast.
But the thing is, I think thisfilm also shows both his and
Winter's skill as actors,because for one thing, they're
playing like.
I believe they're teenagers,even though they're both in
their early 20s.
At that point, and you believethat their relationship, their
(38:08):
chemistry, their devotion toeach other as best friends and
their ability to like play offof each other.
You know, when one's not surewhat to do, and they turn to
each other and like it's really,really well done.
And so that is kind of related,I think, to the take the craft
seriously, but not yourself,because I don't think people
recognize until much later inhis career that Reeves takes the
(38:30):
craft.
Absurd, exactly.
Yeah, that's really.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
So the fact that he was so absurd is actually proof
of his craftsmanship.
Yeah, yes, Interesting.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
So.
And Alex Winter he has mostlybeen a stage actor, so he came
from, I think, broadway beforethis and then has done much like
a great deal on stage after.
So like that's the one thing ispeople think of.
Like oh, this launched reeves'scareer what happened to winters
?
And it's.
It's not that anything happenedto him, it's just that he's a
stage actor and I think that'sgenerally like.
(39:09):
I think he likes that.
Better be my guess, I don'tknow.
So there's a lot to lovethere's a lot to love.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
I heard you say.
I mean you told you said in thebeginning there was a few
things that don't age well.
You named at least one, whichwas when they use the F slur for
queer folks because they hugone another, which is like it's
super toxic masculinity.
And then I feel like there'salso like the something around
the Joanna and Elizabethpotentially.
(39:37):
Is there anything else thatfeels like kind of oh yeah, this
was made in the 80s, the CGI.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
There is also like the treatment of women.
So Missy, the stepmothercharacter, yeah yeah, oh yeah,
now it is not as bad as I wasafraid it was going to be.
So, as I was watching and likeI did not remember that subplot
at all, and so like the firsttime you see Missy, she's
driving a convertible and shepulls up as Bill and Ted are
(40:08):
leaving the school and she goeshey, bill, do you want to ride?
And he's like sure, missy.
And then she gives him thislook, he's like I'm sorry, mom.
And so like they get in the carand they go and Ted is saying
like your mom is super cute andlike do you remember when she
was a senior and we werefreshmen?
And it's not great.
(40:28):
So there's a point where they goto Bill's house and they're
working on.
This is before they meet Rufusat the Circle K.
They're working on the reportthere and Missy comes in and
says like I brought some foodfor you boys.
And then Bill's dad comes inand Missy kind of leans over to
put the food down and like yousee Bill and Ted both kind of
(40:48):
like checking her out.
And then the dad comes in andyou can see him checking her out
from behind.
And then he says boys, whydon't you take a dinner break
and give some money?
And that's why they end up atthe Circle K and there's just,
it's icky, yeah.
And so Bill and Ted have aconversation about it, about
like Ted is just like she'sreally really hot.
(41:11):
Remember I asked her to promand Bill keeps saying, like stop
, it's gross, don't tell me.
And like, but she's your mom,she's not really my mom, but the
actual interplay between Missyand the boys is generally really
kind of lovely.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
So yeah, but the subplot like the joke that the
dad's a pedophile, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
It's so weird, it's so gross.
So when they get back on theday of their report, they end up
in Bill's backyard Missy'swatering the garden, and they
introduce her to all thehistorical figures.
But they're trying to pretendthey're not historical figures.
So they're like, oh, this isDave Beathoven.
And she's just like, oh, it'slovely to meet you all.
(42:01):
And they asked like, well, canyou give us a ride somewhere?
And she's like, no, bill, notuntil your chores are done.
So all the historical figureshelp them with their chores.
And then she drives them aroundand is like delighted to be
there at their report and isvery supportive.
And it's this very weirdsituation that's weird.
(42:22):
So between Missy and thenJoanna and Elizabeth, women are
like trophies.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
But not no, totally trophies.
They have personalities,exactly.
Yeah, it's like so.
They're more than a cardboardcutout, but they're still
trophies.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Exactly yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
It's like so they're more than a cardboard cutout,
but they're still trophies, yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
So it feels like Solomon and Matheson didn't want
them to just be trophies, Likethey were like okay, this is not
how it should be, but theydidn't know how to go further
than just give thempersonalities.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Yeah yeah, they didn't know how to make them
actual people with agency.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they didn'tknow how to make them actual
people with agency.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
So and Joan of Arc is kind of the only female
character in who's an actualperson with agency and she is
played by one of the Go-Go's.
Oh, interesting Jane.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Weidland so Cool.
There was one other thing we'rerunning out of time, but I know
you wanted to mention thecostume integrity.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Yes, thank you.
Thank you for reminding me.
So the other thing that I foundvery surprising is apparently
there is someone who doescostumes professionally in
Hollywood surprising.
Apparently there is someone whodoes costumes professionally in
Hollywood, who she uses Billand Ted as the benchmark for
good costuming, specifically thescene where Beethoven is taken
from, where he's giving aconcert, because all of the
(43:44):
costume is historicallyappropriate and accurate and it
is a very short scene and no onehas any lines other than
Beethoven and so it's just.
All these extras are like,perfectly outfitted in
historically accurate clothingwhich is taking the craft
seriously.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Yeah, yeah, cool.
Well, let me see if I canreflect back to you some of the
key things from this ridiculousand fun little movie.
It's fun because in some ways,this time travel movie, this
ridiculous time travel movie, isa little bit of a time capsule,
with the toxic masculinity interms of the homophobia and in
(44:26):
terms of the treatment of womenlike better than trophies but
not yet fully formed humanbeings, and the weirdness with
the stepmother and the si chi.
But at the same time, like inits context, these filmmakers
took their craft very, veryseriously.
They took their story very,very seriously.
They took seriously the idea oftime travel and the sort of
(44:50):
consequences of time travel whenthinking about fate or destiny
versus work, and the fact thatit's not a either or it's
actually a both and, and sothat's kind of interesting to me
that part of taking time travelseriously is actually wrestling
with that conversation arounddestiny and effort.
(45:12):
Historians like this moviesomewhat surprisingly to me, for
several reasons.
One is that it really humanizessome of these historical
figures and reminds us thatthey're not just like literary
characters but were actuallyhuman beings who liked ice cream
and played catch or whatever,or at least had the capacity for
(45:33):
it.
Might have, might have Right,could have done those things.
They were human beings who hadall of the things that human
beings have, and also historianslike it, because we get sort of
a baked in subaltern studieskind of a view of like a
grassroots rather than a grasstops, if I can apply that to
(45:53):
history thinking, reminding usthat there is historical
interest and significance in thelives of everyday people, not
just the people who were makingdecisions that had sort of
historical consequences, thatchanged the so-called course of
history, and that's a thing thatis that was starting to become
popular academically at the timethat this movie was made.
(46:14):
So that's kind of reallyinteresting.
I mean, the museum for which Iworked for a while we collected
stuff of everyday people, notjust things that were from the
folks who might be householdnames.
So it sounds very familiar tome and for me personally being
reminded that that's not a thingthat I was always looked at as
really cool and interesting.
(46:34):
I think we named the gender aspart of the time capsule thing,
so it does not pass the Bechdeltest.
We see Joan of Arc, the onlysort of fully formed human woman
, in the cast, and so that'sreally also kind of interesting
that she's an unhistoricalfigure and she's the only one
(46:54):
who got that full treatment.
I think those were the keythings that you named.
Maybe there was one other.
Did I miss something?
Speaker 1 (47:03):
I talked a little bit about how this launched Keanu
Reeves' career.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
And then people kind of typecast him, even though I
feel like this is evidence ofhis.
That was the character he wasplaying, and so there's a
paradox in that.
That, like he did it so wellthat we thought he was not a
good actor.
So there's something sort ofinteresting in that, and also
the fact that his co-staractually did have a career just
on the stage, not in movies.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Yeah, Cool, yeah.
And then I want to likereiterate there is something I
don't want to say realistic, butrealistic in the idea that
these two kind of dunderheadscould bumble into world peace
because they are so enthusiasticand compassionate and sunny and
(48:03):
joyful, and just there's asweetness and a heart underneath
of them, of each of them, bothin the way they interact with
each other and with thehistorical figures, and just in
general.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
They also, as we said , like sort of accidentally,
were co-creating subalternstudies while it was being
created in the 80s.
So there's something to that.
I'll just end where we started,which is that you know, if this
were released today, there werethose on the right who would
claim it was woke pop again.
So, yeah, yeah, what am I doingnext week?
(48:38):
Next time it's me.
Oh, isn't it Galaxy Quest?
Yes, next time I am going to betalking to you about another
absurd movie with a sci-fi twist, and that is Galaxy Quest.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
I can't wait.
Love that movie.
See you then.
See you then.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
This show is a labor of love, but that doesn't make
it free to produce.
If you enjoy it even half asmuch as we do, please consider
helping to keep us overthinking.
You can support us at ourPatreon there's a link in the
show notes or leave a positivereview so others can find us and
, of course, share the show withyour people.
Thanks for listening.
(49:22):
Our theme music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin MacLeod from
incompetechcom.
Find full music credits in theshow notes.
Thank you to ResonateRecordings for editing today's
episode.
Until next time, remember popculture is still culture, and
shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
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