December 18, 2024 • 53 mins
In this episode, we pull back the curtain of our own lives and share how we each created big change. We share how we shifted from conventional careers to entrepreneurs and lives led by desire. We highlight the initial discomfort of wanting something different.
By surrounding ourselves with inspiring people and remaining open to new ideas, we learn to listen to our inner voices and chart new courses in our lives.
Relationships are at the heart of our discussion as we explore how to transition from unfulfilling interactions to truly meaningful connections. Reflecting on our experiences, we discuss the shift from being overgivers and people pleasers to seeking genuine, reciprocal relationships.
Through coaching, therapy, 12 Step programs and self-awareness, we emphasize the significance of increasing our capacity to embrace and maintain new experiences. This episode offers insights into challenging limiting beliefs, embracing discomfort, and growing into the person who can sustain authentic connections.
Join us as we explore the courage necessary to follow desires, handle change with self-compassion, and accept life's gifts gracefully. We discuss the importance of balancing success and failure on the growth journey, the value of supportive communities, and the art of embracing both giving and receiving.
We invite you to reflect on your personal desires and the changes you wish to create, encouraging you to connect with us and share your experiences. Thank you for being part of our community as we navigate this journey together.
How did you like this episode? Tell us everything, we'd love to hear from you.
If you'd like to learn more about 1:1 or group coaching with Brenda or Catherine message them and book a Sales Call to learn more.
Email:
desireasmedicine@gmail.com
goddessbrenda24@gmail.com
catherine@catherinenavarro.com
Instagram:
@desireasmedicinepodcast
@Brenda_Fredericks
@CoachCatherineN
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Desire is Medicine.
We are two very different womenliving a life led by desire.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Inviting you into our world.
I'm Brenda.
I'm a devoted practitioner tobeing my fully expressed true
self in my daily life,motherhood relationships and my
business Desire has taken me onquite a ride and every day I
practice listening to andfollowing the voice within.
I'm a middle school teacherturned coach and guide of the
(00:35):
feminine.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the
truest and hopefully thehighest version of me.
I don't have children, I'venever been married.
I've spent equal parts of mylife in corporate as in some
down and low shady spaces.
I was the epitome of tired andwired and my path led me to
explore desire.
I'm a coach, guide, energyworker and a forever student.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Even after decades of inner work, we are humble
beginners on the mat, stillexploring, always curious.
We believe that listening toand following the nudge of
desire is a deep spiritualpractice that helps us grow.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
On the Desires Medicine podcast.
We talk to each other, weinterview people we know and
love about the practice ofdesire, bringing in a very
important piece that is oftenoverlooked being responsible for
our desire.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Welcome back, welcome back to Desire as Medicine
podcast.
Welcome Catherine, my beautifuland amazing co-host.
Hey Brenda, and amazing co-host, hey Brenda.
So good to be here today.
Our last episode was on enoughhow much is enough?
How do you know when you've hadenough?
And Catherine and I weresitting here jamming about this,
as we generally do, and we'rereally talking about how do you
(02:03):
create your life.
Like having enough is one thing, but what about before you even
get to the point where youthink you have enough?
What about when you don't feellike you have enough or you want
something different?
You want something different inyour life.
So what we're going to do todayis dial it back.
We're kind of going back to thebasics today, talking about
(02:25):
desire and how do you createyour life if you want something
different?
Right.
So you're living your life andyou've kind of hit your
havingness.
You've kind of hit the level atwhich you feel you can have in
your life, evidenced by the factof you look around, you have
(02:47):
what you've created in your lifebecause this is what you
believe.
You're at your ceiling andyou're living your life and
maybe that's fine.
And then, all of a sudden, adesire comes in.
Something comes in.
Maybe it's a whisper, maybeit's a tap on your shoulder,
maybe it's a dream, maybe it's aflash.
However, it comes for you andyou're like, oh, I want that
(03:13):
thing, I want something more.
And now that can be scary andyou might not know what to do
with it.
If you're like me, you brush itoff for a while and it kept
coming back for me.
Like me, you brush it off for awhile and it kept coming back
for me.
And what we want to talk abouttoday is what do you do with
that?
What do you do with that desire?
How do you make that desirehappen for you?
And I don't mean make it likewe're going to force it to make
(03:38):
it happen, but how do you leaninto this desire of oh, I want
something more.
In my life, I saw somethingthat I want and I'd like to lean
into that, and maybe that'suncomfortable for you.
How do you have it?
And Catherine and I weresitting here talking about it
and we are two women who haveboth had pretty long careers in
(04:02):
traditional jobs and we've bothleft those jobs.
We both have our own businesses, we both work with women, we
have this podcast.
We've both created enormouschange in our lives, and so we
really wanted to share with youtoday the personal things that
have moved the needle for us,what we have each done to create
(04:24):
change in our lives.
I think what I want to say formyself is and then I'm going to
have Catherine chime in I thinkone of the biggest things for
myself is what I said before,that little whisper, because I
was living my life.
I lived in the suburbs, I wasmarried for a long time, I had a
(04:46):
very traditional job, I hadchildren, I had vacations and
cars and all of those things.
And I just had this tap on myshoulder and I just felt like
there's more.
And there were no details inthat flash, it was just a
feeling.
It was like there's more and Ididn't understand it and I
(05:09):
brushed it away for a long time,but it didn't go away.
And what I've come to know nowin looking back at that feeling,
is that that was desire.
It just didn't have any.
It didn't have anything tangiblein it.
I just knew I wanted more.
It didn't have anything tangiblein it, I just knew I wanted
more.
And so I leaned into that desireand I started getting really
(05:33):
curious and I had a friend who Ihad known for a very long time
and she was doing a program in awomen's community and she would
talk to me about what she wasdoing and I started blowing my
mind.
I started expanding my mind ofwhat's possible, because I had
never even heard of these thingsbefore.
And she would come back from herweekends and she would tell me
(05:55):
all the things that she did andshe would go into detail and it
really blew my mind and itshowed me what was possible.
And so the first thing that Iwant to share for myself of how
I created a life that I have nowis putting myself in spaces
where I could feel what'spossible, because sometimes we
(06:17):
don't even know what's possible.
And that's why, for me, havingfemale friendships, having
sisters on the path who carve apath for me and show me what's
possible, Show me that you caneven have desire.
Show me that you can even havethe thought like, oh, you could
(06:37):
run your own business, you couldbuy two pairs of black sneakers
in one day.
Buy two pairs of black sneakersin one day.
You can go out to eat every dayif you want.
Whatever it is, sisterhood hasshown me what is possible.
I think I'll pause here for amoment and see what you have to
(06:57):
say, catherine.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
So I love what you were talking about when you were
referring back to our episodeon enough, and in that episode
we definitely touched on thosesticky places like, oh, okay,
there's desire and then we hit aceiling.
It feels like maybe I'mlimiting myself or there's
(07:24):
self-sabotage, maybe there'ssome familial conditioning or
generational conditioning,something, some kind of
something there.
And then having this like, oh,maybe this is all I'm really
able to hold, as if we have acup somewhere and in this cup,
in this coffee mug of mine, thisis how much I can have.
(07:45):
And then asking myself, okay,this is what's in the coffee cup
, is it enough?
And then I was feeling intothat, saying actually, I think
that there have been momentswhere what I have is not enough,
and I think that's what you'retalking about.
For you it was oh, you had awhisper, you see a flash,
(08:08):
there's more and you leaned intosisterhood to see possibility.
I would say the first thing thatI ever wanted that was nowhere.
I couldn't see it anywheregrowing up was functioning
relationships.
I saw a lot of unhappy womenwho either lived through their
(08:36):
kids if they were women, I don'tknow.
I don't want to put words intheir mouth because I was living
an experience in life wherepeople were telling me that they
were happy, but they didn'tfeel or look happy to me and I
was like, wow, this existence isreally grim.
(08:58):
This feels so flat.
And you know, as a teenager, myteenage years you're having
just so much fun, right, you'rein high school, you're meeting
all these people.
All of a sudden you, like boysmaybe, you're going to parties
and life is lifing and you havea little bit of like I don't
know, a kick in your sap and youhave a flutter in your belly
(09:20):
and everything feels full ofpossibility and it just feels
infinite.
But I would often look atelders to see, oh, what does
life look like down the road?
And I was like, oh, it doesn'tlook that great down there.
And if I looked, even justoutside of, I was having a good
(09:44):
time, even though I had griefand all these other things
occurring.
But there was still like a gangwarfare and there were still
people dying and going tofunerals and I just thought, oh,
my goodness, how do I get to aplace as I get older, that I
(10:04):
just really love my life and I'mnot miserable?
And I looked around and, yeah,I didn't see a lot of examples
of that.
I saw people that would enjoy acocktail or two after dinner, I
mean, or even at dinnertime,daily, right?
People that were potentiallysober because of church and
(10:28):
everything was a sin.
It just all seems so complicatedand I thought there has to be
another way, and that, for me,was desire.
I had not seen the other way inany way, shape or form.
(10:49):
I just thought there has to beanother way.
And don't get me wrong, Idefinitely my late twenties I'm
sorry, late teen years, earlytwenties would probably right
now identify myself back then aslike an overgiver, so a friend
(11:09):
who went above and beyond,definitely people pleaser.
But I also saw, oh, this isn'tgiving me what I want either in
relationship.
Something is off off.
(11:32):
And I decided I think I waspotentially like 26, 27, when
somebody mentioned coach and Istarted to have holders.
I had done meditation beforeand I had some mentors in that
energy work, meditation field,but I didn't really see strong
friendships, strong sisterhood.
There was something that wasmissing in my mind.
(11:53):
I thought I want that.
I want a different version.
I had not seen it, I had notseen it created, I didn't know
what it looked like, seen it.
I had not seen it created, Ididn't know what it looked like.
It's not like.
I saw somebody living it and Ithought, oh, I want it like that
.
I wanted to have deeperconversations, I wanted to walk
with people that wanted morelike a depth in life versus
(12:17):
mundane surface conversation,and that's what I started to
look for.
So, for me, that little whisper, that desire to have more, was
around relationship, thatceiling, my ceiling.
At the time, when I lookedaround, I thought, oh, I don't
(12:42):
see what I would like toexperience.
I don't see what I would liketo experience.
I don't see what I would liketo experience.
And one of the things that wewanted to talk about today was
so I'll use my example ofrelationships Like what actually
had me move that needle right.
For me, it was seekingmentorship.
(13:03):
So at some point in time Iended up going to therapy, which
had me help, which had mehelped, excuse me which helped
me choose better friends.
Right, it helped me choosepeople whom I could have these
friendship conversations with,sisters that I could go deeper
with people that could engagewith me in a way that I was
(13:25):
looking to engage.
And I went from program toprogram and you also meet people
in these coaching programs oreven in 12-step, although
12-step came a lot later, likedifferent 12-step rooms came
later.
Not to say that everybody in12-step is ideal, it's just.
It is a good room to curatefriendships or what they call
(13:49):
fellowship.
I would love for us, brenda,today, to be able to talk to our
listeners about how we got to aplace where we increase our
havingness, about how we got toa place where we increase our
havingness, we increase thiscoffee cup with what we can hold
(14:10):
, with our actual desires right,while also talking about the
difference between that and,let's say, techniques or things
that help us be with thediscomfort.
Because what actually has it,what blocks us from having what
we want right, is that we're notthat person yet, for starters,
who can have it.
Otherwise we would have it andthere's discomfort there.
(14:33):
Show up for someone in a clean,non-people pleaser way.
So I don't know how to show upfor somebody without going above
and beyond.
(14:53):
So, whatever, I'm always goingto air quotes, feel I mean, if I
wanted to play victim, right,disappointed, for example, but
rather than doing that, it'slike okay, well, what if I'm
wrong?
I must be.
What if this actually exists,the relationships plural that
I'm trying to create actuallyexist.
How do I learn how to do thatand how do I meet people that
(15:16):
also engage in that way so thatI can get to have it, so I get
to have it be part of my livedexperience?
Back to you, brenda.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
You dropped a ton of great stuff there.
That's just really gold.
It's funny because you said youwanted this thing, you wanted
functional relationship.
I don't know that I wantedanything specific.
I just could feel, oh, there'smore for me.
And that was very confusing.
I didn't understand it, it wasvery vague, but I could feel the
(15:52):
truth that I wanted more, thatthere.
It's not even that I wanted it,that there was more for me, and
I was having this spiritualawakening where I feel like I
was starting to expand.
And so you know, when I wastalking about my friend going to
those women's community courses, um, I could feel it through
(16:14):
her.
So I couldn't see any of this,but I could feel she would tell
me these stories and I was ableto feel it and there was
something that was matching whatI was wanting, like some kind
of feeling of more, and shewould tell me these stories and
it was so inspiring to me.
It was like this whole worldthat I just never even knew that
(16:34):
existed and I love that youbrought it.
You know, when you talked aboutfriendships and sisterhood, the
only friends I had at the timewere wonderful, wonderful
friends, and I think that wewere very much in this very
typical conditioned place thatwomen end up in, which is
(16:58):
complaining, complaining aboutour lives, complaining about our
husbands, whose husband is theworst, whose kids are behaving
the worst, who, basically?
Who has the biggest problem,like there's like some kind of
prize for being the biggestvictim in your life, and it's
really hard to get off thathamster wheel.
And so, as I started feelingmore, I did turn towards this
(17:20):
friend and we were very muchstuck in that complaining
situation together, but I couldfeel what was possible.
And we were very much stuck inthat complaining situation
together but I could feel whatwas possible.
And that's where my desire camein and I leaned in and I
followed my desire and, like yousaid, it was really
uncomfortable and I did jointhat women's community because I
was like I want to be in aspace where I could feel what's
(17:42):
possible.
I didn't even have any ideawhat that was.
Looking back now I'm like, oh,I wanted a lot more fulfillment
in my life.
I wanted relationships where Ifelt really fulfilled,
functional.
Like you said, I really wantedto feel my own desire, I wanted
(18:03):
to feel my own spark for life, Iwanted to feel my zest for life
, my life force, energy.
Up until that point I lived avery happy life and I would 100%
do it again, but I wasn'tnecessarily thinking very
outside the box and I think tohave a different life you do
(18:27):
need to think outside the box ofwhat else is possible, and that
sitting with the discomfort isa really big one.
How do you sit with thediscomfort Even the discomfort
of owning your desire, of sayingmommy's going away once a month
for five months to New YorkCity to hang out with a hundred
(18:52):
women and learn about pleasureand desire and basically I was
learning to rewire my brain andwhat's possible and my body and
then sit with the discomfort ofsharing that in my relationship,
sharing that with my kids.
It required me to take up a lotof space in my own life and in
(19:13):
my family.
I had to claim this desire.
You know, and claiming yourdesire, like owning it and then
backing it with action, isreally powerful move, especially
when you don't even know what'son the other side and when your
resources are involved rightyour time, your money, your
(19:34):
energy and yet you're sittinghere claiming it.
Anyway.
You're saying I want this thing, I'm going to go away to this
weekend, or I'm going to hirethis coach, or I'm going to go
to therapy or I'm going to getthe mentor, whatever the thing
is for different people and bewith not only your own
(19:56):
discomfort of owning desire.
It's tricky to own desire whenyou're used to focusing on pain
and then also claim that in theworld take up space.
And I asked my husband at thetime he was very happy to watch
the children be, you know, butthat changed his life.
(20:18):
It changed the kid's life costme money.
So there were a lot of thingsthat were uncomfortable and
really beautiful.
I'm really glad that I did thatbecause it changed everything.
So, just going back to thething, what was the actual thing
(20:38):
that I did was putting myselfin a space and then in that
community I met new friends andwe were all kind of on this
trajectory together of learningto focus on desire, learning
about our bodies, learning aboutpleasure, just having some
freaking fun, just having actualfun being a woman, not only
(21:04):
being a mother and somebodywho's working to like build a
life and a house, but going backto the roots of Brenda, what do
I want to do?
And I started learning all thesenew things about myself.
One of the very fun littlething is, I realized how much I
just love to dance and had thisdesire pop up.
(21:28):
I just want to dance every day,I just want to dance, and that
brought so much joy to my life.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
That's so sweet.
I just want to dance every day.
I love that.
It brought joy to your life.
I love our stories.
I also had in my coaching path.
I don't remember what coachingprogram.
But no, I do remember whatcoaching program I'm just trying
.
I don't know what number ifwe're numbering them, what
number that was but in 2014, Iwas at a conference.
(22:09):
I was at a program where I mettwo women and I had definitely
been working with coaches.
I had been in differentprograms.
I had learned air quotes, howto coach right under different
umbrellas, different topics,different themes, that sort of
(22:29):
thing coach people throughvarious different problems.
But that's where I saw my firstexample of woman in her power
and being soft and I was like,oh, I want that.
So then, that was a differentdesire.
That was like I want to jointhis program that they are the
(22:51):
head of, because I want to havethat flavor, I want to own that
flavor of woman.
And, yes, before her I didn'tknow it was possible.
So, like you, also, being inrooms, meeting people, seeing
possibility and going for it,getting curious and saying I
(23:16):
wonder what's here for me, likeI'm going to give it a shot and
I'm going to give, like you said, my time, my energy, my money
in that case was definitely aprogram.
I'm thinking to myself rightnow.
In both of our examples, we'reliving life, trekking along.
We feel into something.
(23:37):
There's a desire.
We lean into that desire.
We meet different people.
We stay curious.
We're leaning into what'spossible.
We definitely grow intodifferent people.
We grow into the people thatget to have that.
You get to dance every day.
You're in a differentsisterhood, you're in a
community.
For me, the particular desirethat I'm thinking about is like
(24:00):
oh, I learned to slow down, Ilearned to soften, I learned to
not be so harsh around the edges, I learned to chill out a bit.
And one of the things that Iwanted to make sure that I had
was a functioning relationship.
Functioning relationships.
(24:21):
I wanted to be able to doconflict, and definitely
conflict without violence,because I had seen violence
growing up for so long.
And when I finally got to theplace where I can share my
thoughts with pretty value,neutral, no real charge, I was
like, wow, 17-year-old me,19-year-old me would be so proud
(24:50):
, even though I was in my 30s.
And I say this because when Ithink of ceilings and I think of
, oh, I hit my cup, I hit myhavingness.
Right, you have a desire, youwant something and you have no
idea how you're going to get it.
We also don't have a timeline,and who knows how often.
(25:13):
Right, I had discomfort aroundconflict before that.
And when I say discomfort, itwasn't that I couldn't speak my
mind because I could.
It just came out really rude,so rude and with not an ounce of
love and with so much disdainand just making the other person
wrong.
And I was right and that was it.
I just didn't know any betteruntil I did.
(25:37):
And I'm sure it doesn't feelgood to the other person.
And then, if it doesn't feelgood to the other person I'm in
relationship with, it probablydoesn't feel good to me in that
moment either.
And there I am, just in thediscomfort.
Right, it's uncomfortable whenyou're going for something you
don't know quite how to do it,yet when you're going for
(25:58):
something you don't know quitehow to do it yet you don't even
know if it exists.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
But yet there you are , just in the desire, like you
just want it.
Hmm, you just want it.
I think, when I, when I'mlistening to us, I'm, I'm
realizing desire just feels tobe the core of all of this,
because some desire comes in andyou have a choice point right
then, and there you eitherfollow it or you don't.
(26:32):
I mean, for me, I definitelydid not.
I was terrified of it because Iwas really scared If I follow
this thing, I'm going to loseeverything.
And so I tried to push it away,but it didn't.
It didn't go away.
It wouldn't go away because itwas so true and it was so
persistent, it was like had alife of its own.
(26:52):
And so, for me, I dideventually follow the desire,
and I think that's the core ofeverything is having the courage
.
I think it takes a big set ofballs, a big set of ovaries to
follow your desire.
I think it's just the core.
(27:13):
There's no way around that.
You have to be willing to say Idon't know what this is, I
don't know what will happen, Idon't know how to get there, I
don't even know if it's a goodidea or not, but I'm going to
follow this thing because itfeels so true, and I can't even
sleep at night if I don't do itBecause something's gnawing at
(27:36):
you, because I really do believethat your desire is like your
own personalized prescriptiveelixir for you personally to
grow.
And saying yes to that andleaning in is it's funny,
because that's a really advancedpose to do.
(28:00):
We talk about that a lot, butit's also something that's
required at the very beginningto follow it, when you really
don't even know how you're.
You're like learning on thestreet, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Totally, and I think that we get to say to ourselves
this feels really hard.
I don't know how.
I know I want it.
Do I actually want to go downthat road?
And maybe the answer is no,like I know we're talking about.
(28:35):
When the answer is yes, right,but I would love for people's
nose to be conscious nose,versus like I'm just closing my
eyes, I don't see it.
I don't see it.
Or remember when you were a kidand you'd be like no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, cause youdidn't want to.
You wanted to make sure that,whoever was speaking, that you
(28:56):
weren't hearing them.
You're like no, no, no, no, no,no, no.
Not that just sort of like oh,wow, I have this desire to do
this thing.
It's going to require me topotentially I don't know let go
of friends.
Or I'll use an example ofpotentially drinking, even if
someone's not necessarilyconsidering themselves like
(29:17):
having a problem.
Oh, I want to be able to go outand I want to drive there.
That requires me to not have acocktail.
Am I willing to not have acocktail?
Oh, and then maybe the answeris no.
I'm not willing to not have acocktail with my friends, for
whatever your reason is, andthen that means all right.
Well then, I guess I'm notdriving there and, just being
(29:38):
clear, I'm not going to becomethat person that's not drinking.
So what do I need to do inorder to stay safe in this
particular location where I'm at, or stay happy with where I'm
at?
And sometimes, having this?
I'm going to tell a story.
Sometimes havingness is, likeyou see your ceiling in your
(30:00):
behavior, not necessarily adesire.
So one Christmas I was at mypartner's family's house and his
grandmother had given me abracelet like from Macy's, and
the bracelet had a receipt on itand it said $60.
And there was something insideof my body at that time.
I was a pretty young woman andI felt like the $60 for an older
(30:25):
person was just too much, forwhatever reason.
I was in her wallet, in mybrain, deciding what was too
much or not too much, and I waslike visibly embarrassed.
And he was like you'reembarrassing me.
And I remember my whole bodyLike I, I was embarrassed for
(30:48):
myself.
He's embarrassed, she'sprobably embarrassed,
everybody's embarrassed, right?
It was so hard for me toreceive the gift, and what I
mean by receive the gift iswe've talked about this in, I'm
sure in some episode you couldprobably bring it in Brenda
(31:12):
later, because my brain's notbringing it all in.
But this was a time in my lifewhere, for whatever reason, if
it wasn't my immediate partner,it was hard for me to accept
something from someone I didn'tfeel like I was part of her
family.
And now I'm just giving youlike all the excuses I had,
whatever limiting beliefs thathad me.
(31:34):
Had it be that I couldn't justlook at the bracelet and say,
wow, it's beautiful, not evenlook at the receipt and just say
thank you.
I'm like, oh, my goodness, thisis so expensive.
He's like she probably didn'teven buy it at that price, like
it's fine.
And I'm like trying to take theprice off because everybody
(31:56):
wants to see it.
Oh, it's just in our lineage.
It's called tumescence.
It was just so much chaos oversomething that doesn't even
matter.
It's like so small, right.
It was so hard for me to justbe in gratitude and say thank
you to the woman because I feltand I guess other people might
call it like undeserving, rightor maybe unworthy, but none of
(32:22):
those titles helped me.
All I can say is that at thetime it was very hard for me to
fully receive the gift and saythank you and have it mean
nothing other than this is agift.
Thank you so much.
I fully receive it.
It's beautiful and that's it,and have it mean nothing other
than this is a gift.
Thank you so much.
I fully receive it.
It's beautiful and that's it.
So having this can show up inother places, like it doesn't
(32:47):
have to just be like I wannamake sure I have functioning
relationships and like it's thishuge thing it's gonna take me a
lifetime to complete.
I had that experience and Ithought, oh, wow, this showed me
something about myself.
Good to know what is this about.
And I get to just be with itand feel into it and be with the
(33:08):
discomfort that I could notshow up in a way that would have
been.
I was not able to receive it ina way that would have made her
feel really good, which is myregret in that exchange, but
it's the truth of what happened.
I just wasn't that woman yetthat could do it.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
I love this story.
I really do, and I'm thinkingabout what you said earlier,
that you wanted functionalrelationships and you wanted.
You met those women and yousaid I want to be soft, I want
to be in my power, and I thinkit's really important.
This is a great story that youtold, because I think it's
really important to notice howthese stories and these
(33:55):
experiences show up for us, toteach us something and in order
to really receive, there is asoftness that needs to come, and
so we need to have theseexperiences that might be really
awkward or confronting, ormaybe it's like oh, this isn't
how I want to be, you know,maybe I want to be more grateful
(34:18):
or be able to receive it more,but using these experiences as
your teacher, instead of usingthem as a reason to beat
yourself up, but really saying,oh, this experience happened for
me, this experience is myteacher, it's showing me where I
(34:40):
can be softer where I can learnto have more functional
relationships and not take careof other people who are giving
me a gift.
So I think that you bring in areally beautiful piece here and
there's so many pieces, but justlike curiosity.
(35:00):
You know, curiosity and playand openness and receptiveness
to life, like as you're goingthrough your life, instead of
looking at something and sayingthis isn't how I want it or this
isn't how I wanted it to be orI don't like this, just really
looking at everything with anopen-minded, playful curiosity.
(35:20):
Why did this show up in my life?
What is it teaching me?
And I think that's a reallypowerful tool for having change
in your life, because or elseyou're just always doing things
the way you've always done them,and if you keep doing things
the way you've always done them,nothing wrong with that, but
(35:44):
you're probably going to get thesame result.
But what we're talking abouthere is how do you create change
?
So if you want change, then youneed to be able to have some
perspective, to see yourself,learn from it and then choose
something different along theway, and that takes an enormous
amount of willingness andhumility.
And I think, self love.
(36:07):
You know we just did a wholeself, love series and just the
ability to say, oh, okay, I'm onmy journey.
And just the ability to say, oh, okay, I'm on my journey and I
did this again or I did thatagain and I'm just going to love
myself where I am and keepleaning in, like not letting it
(36:30):
stop you and it's not thatthings don't ever stop you for a
time, like maybe you do need tojust take a break or pause.
I think pausing is reallyimportant because we need to
integrate as we go, like we needto learn something and then we
need to integrate it.
So, if something knocks you outbecause you had an experience
(36:51):
that was out of range or reallydidn't go the way you wanted,
take a pause.
I have a friend who taught methis, one I like to take to my
bed I just go to bed, I workfrom bed, watch Netflix, rest,
eat in bed, just basically takecare of myself, reparent myself.
(37:13):
I think it's a really importantpiece as we're changing and
growing, because this is not anovernight thing.
This is a long game.
So if you're listening and youwant change, it's a marathon,
not a sprint, and you do need topause and take care of yourself
(37:35):
along the way.
Or else you're just going toget burnt out and you do need to
pause and take care of yourselfalong the way, or else you're
just going to get burnt out andintegration is real.
You need to actually integrateit into your body and into
yourselves for change to happen.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
How would you recommend someone take it into
their body, integrate it totheir cells?
What does that mean for you?
Speaker 2 (37:59):
to their cells.
What does that mean for you?
Well, I always recommend takingto your bed.
That's a really good one.
I've done that a lot.
You know there's so many waysyou can digest your experiences.
You can write.
You can write gratitudes.
You can connect with friends.
You can share your experienceswith friends oh, one of my
favorites going out in nature.
(38:19):
Nature is a playground forchange.
You walk into the forest or yougo to the beach, you're in the
mountains.
Wherever you are, nature isconstantly reminding us of the
impermanence of life.
Nature is constantly changing.
You just go into nature and yousee how adaptable the animals
(38:39):
and the insects are in theirenvironment and there's just
something that happenscellularly that you're like oh,
oh yeah, things change and ittakes time.
The leaves don't changeovernight, you know.
They take time to change.
Those are some of my examples.
I think we need to digest andrelease, like gratitudes, and
(39:02):
then we need to do some bodythings like being in nature,
maybe doing some yoga.
Sex is a great way to integrate.
So those are some of myfavorites.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Thank you so much for that, for expanding on that.
I definitely ditto all thethings that you mentioned.
My favorites are just talkingto a friend, sort of digesting
what has come up for me, talkingabout what's come up for me so
that I can hear myself.
It gives me like a soundingboard for me to be with whatever
(39:31):
happens.
So maybe I could you would becalling you and be like this
happened with the bracelet.
I can't believe I bought right,that sort of thing.
Then maybe I have a littledance off in my house or I go
for a walk in the park and I'mjust like oh, you know, today's
another day or tomorrow'sanother day, that sort of can I,
can I put this down?
(39:52):
I don't have to use myexperience as a stick to beat
myself up for the next 48, 72hours.
I get to put this down.
And you also talked about orwell, actually we haven't
touched on it yet, but I justwant to talk about some of the
things that have come up for ustoday, as we've talked, when
we're thinking about change andhaving this right, we're at a
location and we're thinkingabout change and having this
(40:13):
right, we're at a location.
We want something different.
We have a desire.
We're like oh, this is going tocall me into being someone else
.
Do I actually have the capacity?
I don't know if I have thecapacity to be this person.
Can I have compassion, though?
If I don't have the capacity?
Oh, I have the willingness,though I'm willing to go for it.
(40:33):
I am willing, and it's reallyeasy to be like I am willing to
win, I'm willing to get what Iwant, but am I equally willing
to fail on the way?
Am I willing to do it wrong,get it wrong, to just sit in the
discomfort of the unknown andthen like, oh, all right, I'm
willing to fail.
Oh, I'm willing to try, but doI have the skill?
(40:56):
Do I have the ability that'srequired?
If I don't, okay, am I willingto just be in the sensation?
Yes, we've talked today aboutwhat it's like when we have a
desire and maybe we don't knowhow, but we have a sister that
knows how right and we can liveeither.
Have them teach us, livevicariously in the beginning,
potentially, go and get someteachers, get some mentors.
(41:18):
We've definitely talked todayabout how good it feels and how
helpful it is to put ourselvesin spaces where people have what
we want, where we get to seeexamples of what that looks like
over and over again.
We've definitely talked aboutlimiting beliefs, and when we
(41:40):
hit these limiting beliefs likefor me, with me in the bracelet
it's like I felt crappy.
But am I willing to be wrong?
Like I know what my mind issaying, is happening, why I feel
embarrassed, why I'm likeuncomfortable with the gift, but
am I willing to be wrong?
Is it something else that'soccurring?
(42:01):
And I'm like oh, actuallyreceiving it in my hands for
whatever reason, caused a lot ofelectricity in my body and I
just wanted to be like I can't,I can't, I can't.
Versus like ooh, if I wouldhave known then what I know now,
it would be like oh, wow, thisis hard to receive, thank you,
(42:24):
because I have so much moreskill right now, right, that if
I were in that same position now, I'd be like oh, wow, this is
actually hard for me to receive.
Give me a second.
Oh, thank you, right.
And it would even be coming froma thank you on two levels One,
for receiving the gift I'mgrateful that you got me the
gift and two oh, what awonderful gift for me to be with
this much discomfort.
(42:44):
There's something here for meto look at, to be with right,
and that's where I get to haveeven more intimacy with myself.
And that's where I get to haveeven more intimacy with myself.
But you, brenda, are so good attalking about, like you're so
good at practices right Today,we've been talking about what it
(43:07):
looks like to create changeover decades, like not the
toolbox practices, but we canand we definitely plan on
creating a toolbox around this,but this is sort of I don't know
our extended chat on it.
What else comes to mind for you, brenda?
Speaker 2 (43:32):
our extended chat.
I really love it.
I think what comes up for me iskind of coming back to putting
yourself in spaces.
I think that we need some kindof like a way shower, right.
It's different for everyone andwe've talked about a couple of
different kinds, like sisters onthe path, right, who have gone
(43:55):
before us to show us what'spossible.
Teachers who have thewillingness to like stand up
there and really talk aboutwhat's possible and bring you
along with them, right.
And you also mentioned 12-step,which is such a great one.
I spent a lot of time, I spentyears going to meetings every
(44:17):
week.
And then there's also coacheslike hiring a coach or a mentor.
And you also mentionedtherapists.
And the one thing I love aboutall of these things is,
especially with coaches, theyshow you your blind spots
because it's one-on-one right,like you get to have someone
there with you who's invested inyou, who can show you your
(44:40):
blind spots and show you what'spossible, and really get to work
with you one-on-one.
And Catherine and I both dothat, by the way.
And I want to speak to thisother thing.
It's like there's like themagic and the mundane.
There's like the magic of beingin spaces with women, where you
can really feel this palpableenergy of what's possible, right
(45:01):
Like the possibility of desireand that feeling that I was
talking about at the beginningof my friend, sharing these
incredible experiences that Ihad never even heard of before.
And then there's the mundane Inorder to change, you need to
chop wood and carry water.
You do, and that's what I didin 12 step.
(45:23):
I used to go to 12 step everyweek, sometimes twice a week,
because in those rooms and thisis free and I really recommend
12 step for everybody For me itwas working on my limiting
beliefs and some behaviors thatwere really holding me back,
like I used to be reallyreactive.
(45:44):
I used to be very reactive inrelationships, I used to be very
codependent, I used to be veryfearful, and so I got to like,
go back to the room and work onthis every week and it's
confronting.
You know, when you talked aboutintimacy with yourself, if you
want change, it requiresintimacy with yourself, because
(46:08):
the only way to have change isto be honest with yourself, with
yourself, and that means beinghonest with your desires.
What do you want?
And also with you.
Know they call it in 12 stepyour character flaws, whatever
you want to call it, the thingsthat are maybe holding you back,
your limiting beliefs, and Ithink it's really important to
(46:30):
kind of work both ends of thestick in a way.
Personally, for me that's beena beautiful piece is working
with the magic of it and alsothe mundane 12 steps is awesome.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
I also am a big uh 12 step fan of all of them.
Well, I mean, you know there'sa a in case you've ever felt
like, oh, I drink a lot or Idesire to drink.
Maybe you don't drink it, youdesire it.
There is SLAW, sex and LoveAddicts Anonymous, which is
(47:04):
great.
Al-anon.
There's ACA, coda those aresome of the ones that I've been
to meetings.
For me, 12-step was less aboutthe mundane and it was about
like 12-step to me helped mefeel normal, like I thought I
(47:26):
had the worst problems and mywhole life was a mess and this,
that, the other thing, whatever,whatever.
And I was the only person thatused to get uncomfortable in
relationships.
I was the only person that usedto get uncomfortable in
relationships.
I was the only one inrelationships that wanted to
overgive.
And then I went to Al-Anon andI was like, oh, I'm in a place
of a thousand or a gazillionover givers.
Then I was in Sex Love AddictsAnonymous and I'm listening to
(47:50):
them talk about how they went onthe third date and they fell in
love.
I'm like, oh, I'm not the onlyone that gets infatuated, this
happens all the time, right?
Or adult children of alcoholics.
And they have this wholecharacter thing too, about what
happens to children who eitherwere children of alcoholics or
children of dry alcoholics,which just means like people who
(48:12):
have alcoholic tendencies butthey didn't drink, and children
of dysfunctional families, and Ithought, oh okay, so we have 12
steps and people think thatthese rooms are really for
people that are really different, but in actuality these are
just people that have the normalthings that happen in the world
and they just go to a roomtogether.
(48:34):
This is basically the wholepopulation and they're just in
different rooms.
It's sort of like you're inhigh school and you just have,
you know, 12-1, 12-2, 12-3.
You just have different, buteverybody's a senior.
That's how it felt, likeEverybody here is a senior in
life and you're just pluggingalong.
You just pick a room and in anyroom there's something and
(48:54):
there's this big phrase in 12Step that says take what works
and leave the rest.
And it was really helpful forme.
It sort of normalized thingsthat potentially I either
pathologized Is that the wordPathologize About myself, where
I was like I am this, I am that,I am this, and I was like, oh,
(49:17):
I am normal, this is supernormal.
Yes, I can get better, there isrecovery.
I can choose to show up as adifferent human and I am not bad
, wrong, dysfunctioned becauseof it.
This is technically what thereal deal looks like.
(49:37):
Most people don't come to theserooms, most people don't talk
about this, but as I started towatch people, I was like, oh,
this person could be in an ACAroom.
Oh, yeah, this person couldtotally be in an AA room.
Oh, yes, this person could bein an NA room.
Oh, this person could be.
And it was just I don'tprescribe these things for
people, but as you're watchingand just walking through the
(49:59):
world, you could really see it.
So thank you for bringing that12-step in, brenda for me.
For me, it just made me feelnormal.
I was like, oh, there's nothingwrong with me, I'm just human
with these other humans.
Some, some humans are willingto admit that this is a struggle
(50:19):
.
Some are not.
And, yes, very few people arenot human.
We're just all human beingstrying to do the best we can
with what we have.
So I think we're we're gettingto, we're getting there.
Speaker 2 (50:34):
We're bozos on the bus.
I think they say that in AAwe're all just bozos on the bus.
You're just another bozo on thebus.
Yeah, 12 step is really good,and we are getting to the end
here.
And what I want to add to whatyou were saying about recovery,
about being in a 12 step room,is that you're in the field of
(50:54):
recovery, about being in a12-step room, is that you're in
the field of recovery, and sogoing to a meeting is like
sanity, providing Every time Iwould feel confused or messed up
or whatever, just I would feelupset, I was having a problem of
some kind.
Just I would go to a meetingand it would.
(51:17):
Oh, just being in a room thatwas in the field of recovery
gave me hope, as opposed tositting by myself in the problem
.
And it's the same thing aboutputting yourself in the rooms
with a teacher or a coach.
You're in the field ofpossibility and recovery, and
every time you do that, you aremaking a deposit in the bank.
(51:41):
You're making a deposit in thebank of you by investing in
yourself.
Every time you do any of thesethings, you're making a deposit,
and that's how you build yourbank of change.
And I want to also say that thiswhole podcast is one of the
(52:01):
things that we talked about onthis episode, which is hanging
out with your sister, with yourfriend, talking about the good
stuff, and you know, many timeswe talked about you and I have
had quite an education in allthe courses and communities and
coaches that we have invested inover the years.
(52:23):
I think for both of us it's atleast 15 years of work.
So, yep, she's saying yes, thiswhole podcast is our digestion,
it's our giving back.
This whole podcast is ourdigestion, it's our giving back.
It's us digesting all thethings that we've learned and
sharing it with you, and we'reso happy that you're listening.
(52:45):
We want to hear about yourdesires.
We want to hear what is it thatyou want in your life?
What change are you currentlytrying to create in your life
and how are you doing that?
What are you bumping up against?
Does anything in this episoderesonate for you?
We would love to hear it.
You can email us, you can tagus on Instagram.
(53:11):
We would love to hear from you.
And with that, thank you somuch for joining us until next
time.
Speaker 1 (53:25):
Thank you for joining us on the Desire is Medicine
podcast Desire invites us to behonest, loving and deeply
intimate with ourselves andothers.
You can find our handles in theshow notes.
We'd love to hear from you.
Welcome to Desire is Medicine.
We are two very different womenliving a life led by desire.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Inviting you into our world.
I'm Brenda.
I'm a devoted practitioner tobeing my fully expressed true
self in my daily life,motherhood relationships and my
business Desire has taken me onquite a ride and every day I
practice listening to andfollowing the voice within.
I'm a middle school teacherturned coach and guide of the
(00:35):
feminine.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the
truest and hopefully thehighest version of me.
I don't have children, I'venever been married.
I've spent equal parts of mylife in corporate as in some
down and low shady spaces.
I was the epitome of tired andwired and my path led me to
explore desire.
I'm a coach, guide, energyworker and a forever student.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Even after decades of inner work, we are humble
beginners on the mat, stillexploring, always curious.
We believe that listening toand following the nudge of
desire is a deep spiritualpractice that helps us grow.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
On the Desires Medicine podcast.
We talk to each other, weinterview people we know and
love about the practice ofdesire, bringing in a very
important piece that is oftenoverlooked being responsible for
our desire.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Welcome back, welcome back to Desire as Medicine
podcast.
Welcome Catherine, my beautifuland amazing co-host.
Hey Brenda, and amazing co-host, hey Brenda.
So good to be here today.
Our last episode was on enoughhow much is enough?
How do you know when you've hadenough?
And Catherine and I weresitting here jamming about this,
as we generally do, and we'rereally talking about how do you
(02:03):
create your life.
Like having enough is one thing, but what about before you even
get to the point where youthink you have enough?
What about when you don't feellike you have enough or you want
something different?
You want something different inyour life.
So what we're going to do todayis dial it back.
We're kind of going back to thebasics today, talking about
(02:25):
desire and how do you createyour life if you want something
different?
Right.
So you're living your life andyou've kind of hit your
havingness.
You've kind of hit the level atwhich you feel you can have in
your life, evidenced by the factof you look around, you have
(02:47):
what you've created in your lifebecause this is what you
believe.
You're at your ceiling andyou're living your life and
maybe that's fine.
And then, all of a sudden, adesire comes in.
Something comes in.
Maybe it's a whisper, maybeit's a tap on your shoulder,
maybe it's a dream, maybe it's aflash.
However, it comes for you andyou're like, oh, I want that
(03:13):
thing, I want something more.
And now that can be scary andyou might not know what to do
with it.
If you're like me, you brush itoff for a while and it kept
coming back for me.
Like me, you brush it off for awhile and it kept coming back
for me.
And what we want to talk abouttoday is what do you do with
that?
What do you do with that desire?
How do you make that desirehappen for you?
And I don't mean make it likewe're going to force it to make
(03:38):
it happen, but how do you leaninto this desire of oh, I want
something more.
In my life, I saw somethingthat I want and I'd like to lean
into that, and maybe that'suncomfortable for you.
How do you have it?
And Catherine and I weresitting here talking about it
and we are two women who haveboth had pretty long careers in
(04:02):
traditional jobs and we've bothleft those jobs.
We both have our own businesses, we both work with women, we
have this podcast.
We've both created enormouschange in our lives, and so we
really wanted to share with youtoday the personal things that
have moved the needle for us,what we have each done to create
(04:24):
change in our lives.
I think what I want to say formyself is and then I'm going to
have Catherine chime in I thinkone of the biggest things for
myself is what I said before,that little whisper, because I
was living my life.
I lived in the suburbs, I wasmarried for a long time, I had a
(04:46):
very traditional job, I hadchildren, I had vacations and
cars and all of those things.
And I just had this tap on myshoulder and I just felt like
there's more.
And there were no details inthat flash, it was just a
feeling.
It was like there's more and Ididn't understand it and I
(05:09):
brushed it away for a long time,but it didn't go away.
And what I've come to know nowin looking back at that feeling,
is that that was desire.
It just didn't have any.
It didn't have anything tangiblein it.
I just knew I wanted more.
It didn't have anything tangiblein it, I just knew I wanted
more.
And so I leaned into that desireand I started getting really
(05:33):
curious and I had a friend who Ihad known for a very long time
and she was doing a program in awomen's community and she would
talk to me about what she wasdoing and I started blowing my
mind.
I started expanding my mind ofwhat's possible, because I had
never even heard of these thingsbefore.
And she would come back from herweekends and she would tell me
(05:55):
all the things that she did andshe would go into detail and it
really blew my mind and itshowed me what was possible.
And so the first thing that Iwant to share for myself of how
I created a life that I have nowis putting myself in spaces
where I could feel what'spossible, because sometimes we
(06:17):
don't even know what's possible.
And that's why, for me, havingfemale friendships, having
sisters on the path who carve apath for me and show me what's
possible, Show me that you caneven have desire.
Show me that you can even havethe thought like, oh, you could
(06:37):
run your own business, you couldbuy two pairs of black sneakers
in one day.
Buy two pairs of black sneakersin one day.
You can go out to eat every dayif you want.
Whatever it is, sisterhood hasshown me what is possible.
I think I'll pause here for amoment and see what you have to
(06:57):
say, catherine.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
So I love what you were talking about when you were
referring back to our episodeon enough, and in that episode
we definitely touched on thosesticky places like, oh, okay,
there's desire and then we hit aceiling.
It feels like maybe I'mlimiting myself or there's
(07:24):
self-sabotage, maybe there'ssome familial conditioning or
generational conditioning,something, some kind of
something there.
And then having this like, oh,maybe this is all I'm really
able to hold, as if we have acup somewhere and in this cup,
in this coffee mug of mine, thisis how much I can have.
(07:45):
And then asking myself, okay,this is what's in the coffee cup
, is it enough?
And then I was feeling intothat, saying actually, I think
that there have been momentswhere what I have is not enough,
and I think that's what you'retalking about.
For you it was oh, you had awhisper, you see a flash,
(08:08):
there's more and you leaned intosisterhood to see possibility.
I would say the first thing thatI ever wanted that was nowhere.
I couldn't see it anywheregrowing up was functioning
relationships.
I saw a lot of unhappy womenwho either lived through their
(08:36):
kids if they were women, I don'tknow.
I don't want to put words intheir mouth because I was living
an experience in life wherepeople were telling me that they
were happy, but they didn'tfeel or look happy to me and I
was like, wow, this existence isreally grim.
(08:58):
This feels so flat.
And you know, as a teenager, myteenage years you're having
just so much fun, right, you'rein high school, you're meeting
all these people.
All of a sudden you, like boysmaybe, you're going to parties
and life is lifing and you havea little bit of like I don't
know, a kick in your sap and youhave a flutter in your belly
(09:20):
and everything feels full ofpossibility and it just feels
infinite.
But I would often look atelders to see, oh, what does
life look like down the road?
And I was like, oh, it doesn'tlook that great down there.
And if I looked, even justoutside of, I was having a good
(09:44):
time, even though I had griefand all these other things
occurring.
But there was still like a gangwarfare and there were still
people dying and going tofunerals and I just thought, oh,
my goodness, how do I get to aplace as I get older, that I
(10:04):
just really love my life and I'mnot miserable?
And I looked around and, yeah,I didn't see a lot of examples
of that.
I saw people that would enjoy acocktail or two after dinner, I
mean, or even at dinnertime,daily, right?
People that were potentiallysober because of church and
(10:28):
everything was a sin.
It just all seems so complicatedand I thought there has to be
another way, and that, for me,was desire.
I had not seen the other way inany way, shape or form.
(10:49):
I just thought there has to beanother way.
And don't get me wrong, Idefinitely my late twenties I'm
sorry, late teen years, earlytwenties would probably right
now identify myself back then aslike an overgiver, so a friend
(11:09):
who went above and beyond,definitely people pleaser.
But I also saw, oh, this isn'tgiving me what I want either in
relationship.
Something is off off.
(11:32):
And I decided I think I waspotentially like 26, 27, when
somebody mentioned coach and Istarted to have holders.
I had done meditation beforeand I had some mentors in that
energy work, meditation field,but I didn't really see strong
friendships, strong sisterhood.
There was something that wasmissing in my mind.
(11:53):
I thought I want that.
I want a different version.
I had not seen it, I had notseen it created, I didn't know
what it looked like, seen it.
I had not seen it created, Ididn't know what it looked like.
It's not like.
I saw somebody living it and Ithought, oh, I want it like that
.
I wanted to have deeperconversations, I wanted to walk
with people that wanted morelike a depth in life versus
(12:17):
mundane surface conversation,and that's what I started to
look for.
So, for me, that little whisper, that desire to have more, was
around relationship, thatceiling, my ceiling.
At the time, when I lookedaround, I thought, oh, I don't
(12:42):
see what I would like toexperience.
I don't see what I would liketo experience.
I don't see what I would liketo experience.
And one of the things that wewanted to talk about today was
so I'll use my example ofrelationships Like what actually
had me move that needle right.
For me, it was seekingmentorship.
(13:03):
So at some point in time Iended up going to therapy, which
had me help, which had mehelped, excuse me which helped
me choose better friends.
Right, it helped me choosepeople whom I could have these
friendship conversations with,sisters that I could go deeper
with people that could engagewith me in a way that I was
(13:25):
looking to engage.
And I went from program toprogram and you also meet people
in these coaching programs oreven in 12-step, although
12-step came a lot later, likedifferent 12-step rooms came
later.
Not to say that everybody in12-step is ideal, it's just.
It is a good room to curatefriendships or what they call
(13:49):
fellowship.
I would love for us, brenda,today, to be able to talk to our
listeners about how we got to aplace where we increase our
havingness, about how we got toa place where we increase our
havingness, we increase thiscoffee cup with what we can hold
(14:10):
, with our actual desires right,while also talking about the
difference between that and,let's say, techniques or things
that help us be with thediscomfort.
Because what actually has it,what blocks us from having what
we want right, is that we're notthat person yet, for starters,
who can have it.
Otherwise we would have it andthere's discomfort there.
(14:33):
Show up for someone in a clean,non-people pleaser way.
So I don't know how to show upfor somebody without going above
and beyond.
(14:53):
So, whatever, I'm always goingto air quotes, feel I mean, if I
wanted to play victim, right,disappointed, for example, but
rather than doing that, it'slike okay, well, what if I'm
wrong?
I must be.
What if this actually exists,the relationships plural that
I'm trying to create actuallyexist.
How do I learn how to do thatand how do I meet people that
(15:16):
also engage in that way so thatI can get to have it, so I get
to have it be part of my livedexperience?
Back to you, brenda.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
You dropped a ton of great stuff there.
That's just really gold.
It's funny because you said youwanted this thing, you wanted
functional relationship.
I don't know that I wantedanything specific.
I just could feel, oh, there'smore for me.
And that was very confusing.
I didn't understand it, it wasvery vague, but I could feel the
(15:52):
truth that I wanted more, thatthere.
It's not even that I wanted it,that there was more for me, and
I was having this spiritualawakening where I feel like I
was starting to expand.
And so you know, when I wastalking about my friend going to
those women's community courses, um, I could feel it through
(16:14):
her.
So I couldn't see any of this,but I could feel she would tell
me these stories and I was ableto feel it and there was
something that was matching whatI was wanting, like some kind
of feeling of more, and shewould tell me these stories and
it was so inspiring to me.
It was like this whole worldthat I just never even knew that
(16:34):
existed and I love that youbrought it.
You know, when you talked aboutfriendships and sisterhood, the
only friends I had at the timewere wonderful, wonderful
friends, and I think that wewere very much in this very
typical conditioned place thatwomen end up in, which is
(16:58):
complaining, complaining aboutour lives, complaining about our
husbands, whose husband is theworst, whose kids are behaving
the worst, who, basically?
Who has the biggest problem,like there's like some kind of
prize for being the biggestvictim in your life, and it's
really hard to get off thathamster wheel.
And so, as I started feelingmore, I did turn towards this
(17:20):
friend and we were very muchstuck in that complaining
situation together, but I couldfeel what was possible.
And we were very much stuck inthat complaining situation
together but I could feel whatwas possible.
And that's where my desire camein and I leaned in and I
followed my desire and, like yousaid, it was really
uncomfortable and I did jointhat women's community because I
was like I want to be in aspace where I could feel what's
(17:42):
possible.
I didn't even have any ideawhat that was.
Looking back now I'm like, oh,I wanted a lot more fulfillment
in my life.
I wanted relationships where Ifelt really fulfilled,
functional.
Like you said, I really wantedto feel my own desire, I wanted
(18:03):
to feel my own spark for life, Iwanted to feel my zest for life
, my life force, energy.
Up until that point I lived avery happy life and I would 100%
do it again, but I wasn'tnecessarily thinking very
outside the box and I think tohave a different life you do
(18:27):
need to think outside the box ofwhat else is possible, and that
sitting with the discomfort isa really big one.
How do you sit with thediscomfort Even the discomfort
of owning your desire, of sayingmommy's going away once a month
for five months to New YorkCity to hang out with a hundred
(18:52):
women and learn about pleasureand desire and basically I was
learning to rewire my brain andwhat's possible and my body and
then sit with the discomfort ofsharing that in my relationship,
sharing that with my kids.
It required me to take up a lotof space in my own life and in
(19:13):
my family.
I had to claim this desire.
You know, and claiming yourdesire, like owning it and then
backing it with action, isreally powerful move, especially
when you don't even know what'son the other side and when your
resources are involved rightyour time, your money, your
(19:34):
energy and yet you're sittinghere claiming it.
Anyway.
You're saying I want this thing, I'm going to go away to this
weekend, or I'm going to hirethis coach, or I'm going to go
to therapy or I'm going to getthe mentor, whatever the thing
is for different people and bewith not only your own
(19:56):
discomfort of owning desire.
It's tricky to own desire whenyou're used to focusing on pain
and then also claim that in theworld take up space.
And I asked my husband at thetime he was very happy to watch
the children be, you know, butthat changed his life.
(20:18):
It changed the kid's life costme money.
So there were a lot of thingsthat were uncomfortable and
really beautiful.
I'm really glad that I did thatbecause it changed everything.
So, just going back to thething, what was the actual thing
(20:38):
that I did was putting myselfin a space and then in that
community I met new friends andwe were all kind of on this
trajectory together of learningto focus on desire, learning
about our bodies, learning aboutpleasure, just having some
freaking fun, just having actualfun being a woman, not only
(21:04):
being a mother and somebodywho's working to like build a
life and a house, but going backto the roots of Brenda, what do
I want to do?
And I started learning all thesenew things about myself.
One of the very fun littlething is, I realized how much I
just love to dance and had thisdesire pop up.
(21:28):
I just want to dance every day,I just want to dance, and that
brought so much joy to my life.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
That's so sweet.
I just want to dance every day.
I love that.
It brought joy to your life.
I love our stories.
I also had in my coaching path.
I don't remember what coachingprogram.
But no, I do remember whatcoaching program I'm just trying
.
I don't know what number ifwe're numbering them, what
number that was but in 2014, Iwas at a conference.
(22:09):
I was at a program where I mettwo women and I had definitely
been working with coaches.
I had been in differentprograms.
I had learned air quotes, howto coach right under different
umbrellas, different topics,different themes, that sort of
(22:29):
thing coach people throughvarious different problems.
But that's where I saw my firstexample of woman in her power
and being soft and I was like,oh, I want that.
So then, that was a differentdesire.
That was like I want to jointhis program that they are the
(22:51):
head of, because I want to havethat flavor, I want to own that
flavor of woman.
And, yes, before her I didn'tknow it was possible.
So, like you, also, being inrooms, meeting people, seeing
possibility and going for it,getting curious and saying I
(23:16):
wonder what's here for me, likeI'm going to give it a shot and
I'm going to give, like you said, my time, my energy, my money
in that case was definitely aprogram.
I'm thinking to myself rightnow.
In both of our examples, we'reliving life, trekking along.
We feel into something.
(23:37):
There's a desire.
We lean into that desire.
We meet different people.
We stay curious.
We're leaning into what'spossible.
We definitely grow intodifferent people.
We grow into the people thatget to have that.
You get to dance every day.
You're in a differentsisterhood, you're in a
community.
For me, the particular desirethat I'm thinking about is like
(24:00):
oh, I learned to slow down, Ilearned to soften, I learned to
not be so harsh around the edges, I learned to chill out a bit.
And one of the things that Iwanted to make sure that I had
was a functioning relationship.
Functioning relationships.
(24:21):
I wanted to be able to doconflict, and definitely
conflict without violence,because I had seen violence
growing up for so long.
And when I finally got to theplace where I can share my
thoughts with pretty value,neutral, no real charge, I was
like, wow, 17-year-old me,19-year-old me would be so proud
(24:50):
, even though I was in my 30s.
And I say this because when Ithink of ceilings and I think of
, oh, I hit my cup, I hit myhavingness.
Right, you have a desire, youwant something and you have no
idea how you're going to get it.
We also don't have a timeline,and who knows how often.
(25:13):
Right, I had discomfort aroundconflict before that.
And when I say discomfort, itwasn't that I couldn't speak my
mind because I could.
It just came out really rude,so rude and with not an ounce of
love and with so much disdainand just making the other person
wrong.
And I was right and that was it.
I just didn't know any betteruntil I did.
(25:37):
And I'm sure it doesn't feelgood to the other person.
And then, if it doesn't feelgood to the other person I'm in
relationship with, it probablydoesn't feel good to me in that
moment either.
And there I am, just in thediscomfort.
Right, it's uncomfortable whenyou're going for something you
don't know quite how to do it,yet when you're going for
(25:58):
something you don't know quitehow to do it yet you don't even
know if it exists.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
But yet there you are , just in the desire, like you
just want it.
Hmm, you just want it.
I think, when I, when I'mlistening to us, I'm, I'm
realizing desire just feels tobe the core of all of this,
because some desire comes in andyou have a choice point right
then, and there you eitherfollow it or you don't.
(26:32):
I mean, for me, I definitelydid not.
I was terrified of it because Iwas really scared If I follow
this thing, I'm going to loseeverything.
And so I tried to push it away,but it didn't.
It didn't go away.
It wouldn't go away because itwas so true and it was so
persistent, it was like had alife of its own.
(26:52):
And so, for me, I dideventually follow the desire,
and I think that's the core ofeverything is having the courage
.
I think it takes a big set ofballs, a big set of ovaries to
follow your desire.
I think it's just the core.
(27:13):
There's no way around that.
You have to be willing to say Idon't know what this is, I
don't know what will happen, Idon't know how to get there, I
don't even know if it's a goodidea or not, but I'm going to
follow this thing because itfeels so true, and I can't even
sleep at night if I don't do itBecause something's gnawing at
(27:36):
you, because I really do believethat your desire is like your
own personalized prescriptiveelixir for you personally to
grow.
And saying yes to that andleaning in is it's funny,
because that's a really advancedpose to do.
(28:00):
We talk about that a lot, butit's also something that's
required at the very beginningto follow it, when you really
don't even know how you're.
You're like learning on thestreet, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Totally, and I think that we get to say to ourselves
this feels really hard.
I don't know how.
I know I want it.
Do I actually want to go downthat road?
And maybe the answer is no,like I know we're talking about.
(28:35):
When the answer is yes, right,but I would love for people's
nose to be conscious nose,versus like I'm just closing my
eyes, I don't see it.
I don't see it.
Or remember when you were a kidand you'd be like no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, cause youdidn't want to.
You wanted to make sure that,whoever was speaking, that you
(28:56):
weren't hearing them.
You're like no, no, no, no, no,no, no.
Not that just sort of like oh,wow, I have this desire to do
this thing.
It's going to require me topotentially I don't know let go
of friends.
Or I'll use an example ofpotentially drinking, even if
someone's not necessarilyconsidering themselves like
(29:17):
having a problem.
Oh, I want to be able to go outand I want to drive there.
That requires me to not have acocktail.
Am I willing to not have acocktail?
Oh, and then maybe the answeris no.
I'm not willing to not have acocktail with my friends, for
whatever your reason is, andthen that means all right.
Well then, I guess I'm notdriving there and, just being
(29:38):
clear, I'm not going to becomethat person that's not drinking.
So what do I need to do inorder to stay safe in this
particular location where I'm at, or stay happy with where I'm
at?
And sometimes, having this?
I'm going to tell a story.
Sometimes havingness is, likeyou see your ceiling in your
(30:00):
behavior, not necessarily adesire.
So one Christmas I was at mypartner's family's house and his
grandmother had given me abracelet like from Macy's, and
the bracelet had a receipt on itand it said $60.
And there was something insideof my body at that time.
I was a pretty young woman andI felt like the $60 for an older
(30:25):
person was just too much, forwhatever reason.
I was in her wallet, in mybrain, deciding what was too
much or not too much, and I waslike visibly embarrassed.
And he was like you'reembarrassing me.
And I remember my whole bodyLike I, I was embarrassed for
(30:48):
myself.
He's embarrassed, she'sprobably embarrassed,
everybody's embarrassed, right?
It was so hard for me toreceive the gift, and what I
mean by receive the gift iswe've talked about this in, I'm
sure in some episode you couldprobably bring it in Brenda
(31:12):
later, because my brain's notbringing it all in.
But this was a time in my lifewhere, for whatever reason, if
it wasn't my immediate partner,it was hard for me to accept
something from someone I didn'tfeel like I was part of her
family.
And now I'm just giving youlike all the excuses I had,
whatever limiting beliefs thathad me.
(31:34):
Had it be that I couldn't justlook at the bracelet and say,
wow, it's beautiful, not evenlook at the receipt and just say
thank you.
I'm like, oh, my goodness, thisis so expensive.
He's like she probably didn'teven buy it at that price, like
it's fine.
And I'm like trying to take theprice off because everybody
(31:56):
wants to see it.
Oh, it's just in our lineage.
It's called tumescence.
It was just so much chaos oversomething that doesn't even
matter.
It's like so small, right.
It was so hard for me to justbe in gratitude and say thank
you to the woman because I feltand I guess other people might
call it like undeserving, rightor maybe unworthy, but none of
(32:22):
those titles helped me.
All I can say is that at thetime it was very hard for me to
fully receive the gift and saythank you and have it mean
nothing other than this is agift.
Thank you so much.
I fully receive it.
It's beautiful and that's it,and have it mean nothing other
than this is a gift.
Thank you so much.
I fully receive it.
It's beautiful and that's it.
So having this can show up inother places, like it doesn't
(32:47):
have to just be like I wannamake sure I have functioning
relationships and like it's thishuge thing it's gonna take me a
lifetime to complete.
I had that experience and Ithought, oh, wow, this showed me
something about myself.
Good to know what is this about.
And I get to just be with itand feel into it and be with the
(33:08):
discomfort that I could notshow up in a way that would have
been.
I was not able to receive it ina way that would have made her
feel really good, which is myregret in that exchange, but
it's the truth of what happened.
I just wasn't that woman yetthat could do it.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
I love this story.
I really do, and I'm thinkingabout what you said earlier,
that you wanted functionalrelationships and you wanted.
You met those women and yousaid I want to be soft, I want
to be in my power, and I thinkit's really important.
This is a great story that youtold, because I think it's
really important to notice howthese stories and these
(33:55):
experiences show up for us, toteach us something and in order
to really receive, there is asoftness that needs to come, and
so we need to have theseexperiences that might be really
awkward or confronting, ormaybe it's like oh, this isn't
how I want to be, you know,maybe I want to be more grateful
(34:18):
or be able to receive it more,but using these experiences as
your teacher, instead of usingthem as a reason to beat
yourself up, but really saying,oh, this experience happened for
me, this experience is myteacher, it's showing me where I
(34:40):
can be softer where I can learnto have more functional
relationships and not take careof other people who are giving
me a gift.
So I think that you bring in areally beautiful piece here and
there's so many pieces, but justlike curiosity.
(35:00):
You know, curiosity and playand openness and receptiveness
to life, like as you're goingthrough your life, instead of
looking at something and sayingthis isn't how I want it or this
isn't how I wanted it to be orI don't like this, just really
looking at everything with anopen-minded, playful curiosity.
(35:20):
Why did this show up in my life?
What is it teaching me?
And I think that's a reallypowerful tool for having change
in your life, because or elseyou're just always doing things
the way you've always done them,and if you keep doing things
the way you've always done them,nothing wrong with that, but
(35:44):
you're probably going to get thesame result.
But what we're talking abouthere is how do you create change
?
So if you want change, then youneed to be able to have some
perspective, to see yourself,learn from it and then choose
something different along theway, and that takes an enormous
amount of willingness andhumility.
And I think, self love.
(36:07):
You know we just did a wholeself, love series and just the
ability to say, oh, okay, I'm onmy journey.
And just the ability to say, oh, okay, I'm on my journey and I
did this again or I did thatagain and I'm just going to love
myself where I am and keepleaning in, like not letting it
(36:30):
stop you and it's not thatthings don't ever stop you for a
time, like maybe you do need tojust take a break or pause.
I think pausing is reallyimportant because we need to
integrate as we go, like we needto learn something and then we
need to integrate it.
So, if something knocks you outbecause you had an experience
(36:51):
that was out of range or reallydidn't go the way you wanted,
take a pause.
I have a friend who taught methis, one I like to take to my
bed I just go to bed, I workfrom bed, watch Netflix, rest,
eat in bed, just basically takecare of myself, reparent myself.
(37:13):
I think it's a really importantpiece as we're changing and
growing, because this is not anovernight thing.
This is a long game.
So if you're listening and youwant change, it's a marathon,
not a sprint, and you do need topause and take care of yourself
(37:35):
along the way.
Or else you're just going toget burnt out and you do need to
pause and take care of yourselfalong the way, or else you're
just going to get burnt out andintegration is real.
You need to actually integrateit into your body and into
yourselves for change to happen.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
How would you recommend someone take it into
their body, integrate it totheir cells?
What does that mean for you?
Speaker 2 (37:59):
to their cells.
What does that mean for you?
Well, I always recommend takingto your bed.
That's a really good one.
I've done that a lot.
You know there's so many waysyou can digest your experiences.
You can write.
You can write gratitudes.
You can connect with friends.
You can share your experienceswith friends oh, one of my
favorites going out in nature.
(38:19):
Nature is a playground forchange.
You walk into the forest or yougo to the beach, you're in the
mountains.
Wherever you are, nature isconstantly reminding us of the
impermanence of life.
Nature is constantly changing.
You just go into nature and yousee how adaptable the animals
(38:39):
and the insects are in theirenvironment and there's just
something that happenscellularly that you're like oh,
oh yeah, things change and ittakes time.
The leaves don't changeovernight, you know.
They take time to change.
Those are some of my examples.
I think we need to digest andrelease, like gratitudes, and
(39:02):
then we need to do some bodythings like being in nature,
maybe doing some yoga.
Sex is a great way to integrate.
So those are some of myfavorites.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Thank you so much for that, for expanding on that.
I definitely ditto all thethings that you mentioned.
My favorites are just talkingto a friend, sort of digesting
what has come up for me, talkingabout what's come up for me so
that I can hear myself.
It gives me like a soundingboard for me to be with whatever
(39:31):
happens.
So maybe I could you would becalling you and be like this
happened with the bracelet.
I can't believe I bought right,that sort of thing.
Then maybe I have a littledance off in my house or I go
for a walk in the park and I'mjust like oh, you know, today's
another day or tomorrow'sanother day, that sort of can I,
can I put this down?
(39:52):
I don't have to use myexperience as a stick to beat
myself up for the next 48, 72hours.
I get to put this down.
And you also talked about orwell, actually we haven't
touched on it yet, but I justwant to talk about some of the
things that have come up for ustoday, as we've talked, when
we're thinking about change andhaving this right, we're at a
location and we're thinkingabout change and having this
(40:13):
right, we're at a location.
We want something different.
We have a desire.
We're like oh, this is going tocall me into being someone else
.
Do I actually have the capacity?
I don't know if I have thecapacity to be this person.
Can I have compassion, though?
If I don't have the capacity?
Oh, I have the willingness,though I'm willing to go for it.
(40:33):
I am willing, and it's reallyeasy to be like I am willing to
win, I'm willing to get what Iwant, but am I equally willing
to fail on the way?
Am I willing to do it wrong,get it wrong, to just sit in the
discomfort of the unknown andthen like, oh, all right, I'm
willing to fail.
Oh, I'm willing to try, but doI have the skill?
(40:56):
Do I have the ability that'srequired?
If I don't, okay, am I willingto just be in the sensation?
Yes, we've talked today aboutwhat it's like when we have a
desire and maybe we don't knowhow, but we have a sister that
knows how right and we can liveeither.
Have them teach us, livevicariously in the beginning,
potentially, go and get someteachers, get some mentors.
(41:18):
We've definitely talked todayabout how good it feels and how
helpful it is to put ourselvesin spaces where people have what
we want, where we get to seeexamples of what that looks like
over and over again.
We've definitely talked aboutlimiting beliefs, and when we
(41:40):
hit these limiting beliefs likefor me, with me in the bracelet
it's like I felt crappy.
But am I willing to be wrong?
Like I know what my mind issaying, is happening, why I feel
embarrassed, why I'm likeuncomfortable with the gift, but
am I willing to be wrong?
Is it something else that'soccurring?
(42:01):
And I'm like oh, actuallyreceiving it in my hands for
whatever reason, caused a lot ofelectricity in my body and I
just wanted to be like I can't,I can't, I can't.
Versus like ooh, if I wouldhave known then what I know now,
it would be like oh, wow, thisis hard to receive, thank you,
(42:24):
because I have so much moreskill right now, right, that if
I were in that same position now, I'd be like oh, wow, this is
actually hard for me to receive.
Give me a second.
Oh, thank you, right.
And it would even be coming froma thank you on two levels One,
for receiving the gift I'mgrateful that you got me the
gift and two oh, what awonderful gift for me to be with
this much discomfort.
(42:44):
There's something here for meto look at, to be with right,
and that's where I get to haveeven more intimacy with myself.
And that's where I get to haveeven more intimacy with myself.
But you, brenda, are so good attalking about, like you're so
good at practices right Today,we've been talking about what it
(43:07):
looks like to create changeover decades, like not the
toolbox practices, but we canand we definitely plan on
creating a toolbox around this,but this is sort of I don't know
our extended chat on it.
What else comes to mind for you, brenda?
Speaker 2 (43:32):
our extended chat.
I really love it.
I think what comes up for me iskind of coming back to putting
yourself in spaces.
I think that we need some kindof like a way shower, right.
It's different for everyone andwe've talked about a couple of
different kinds, like sisters onthe path, right, who have gone
(43:55):
before us to show us what'spossible.
Teachers who have thewillingness to like stand up
there and really talk aboutwhat's possible and bring you
along with them, right.
And you also mentioned 12-step,which is such a great one.
I spent a lot of time, I spentyears going to meetings every
(44:17):
week.
And then there's also coacheslike hiring a coach or a mentor.
And you also mentionedtherapists.
And the one thing I love aboutall of these things is,
especially with coaches, theyshow you your blind spots
because it's one-on-one right,like you get to have someone
there with you who's invested inyou, who can show you your
(44:40):
blind spots and show you what'spossible, and really get to work
with you one-on-one.
And Catherine and I both dothat, by the way.
And I want to speak to thisother thing.
It's like there's like themagic and the mundane.
There's like the magic of beingin spaces with women, where you
can really feel this palpableenergy of what's possible, right
(45:01):
Like the possibility of desireand that feeling that I was
talking about at the beginningof my friend, sharing these
incredible experiences that Ihad never even heard of before.
And then there's the mundane Inorder to change, you need to
chop wood and carry water.
You do, and that's what I didin 12 step.
(45:23):
I used to go to 12 step everyweek, sometimes twice a week,
because in those rooms and thisis free and I really recommend
12 step for everybody For me itwas working on my limiting
beliefs and some behaviors thatwere really holding me back,
like I used to be reallyreactive.
(45:44):
I used to be very reactive inrelationships, I used to be very
codependent, I used to be veryfearful, and so I got to like,
go back to the room and work onthis every week and it's
confronting.
You know, when you talked aboutintimacy with yourself, if you
want change, it requiresintimacy with yourself, because
(46:08):
the only way to have change isto be honest with yourself, with
yourself, and that means beinghonest with your desires.
What do you want?
And also with you.
Know they call it in 12 stepyour character flaws, whatever
you want to call it, the thingsthat are maybe holding you back,
your limiting beliefs, and Ithink it's really important to
(46:30):
kind of work both ends of thestick in a way.
Personally, for me that's beena beautiful piece is working
with the magic of it and alsothe mundane 12 steps is awesome.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
I also am a big uh 12 step fan of all of them.
Well, I mean, you know there'sa a in case you've ever felt
like, oh, I drink a lot or Idesire to drink.
Maybe you don't drink it, youdesire it.
There is SLAW, sex and LoveAddicts Anonymous, which is
(47:04):
great.
Al-anon.
There's ACA, coda those aresome of the ones that I've been
to meetings.
For me, 12-step was less aboutthe mundane and it was about
like 12-step to me helped mefeel normal, like I thought I
(47:26):
had the worst problems and mywhole life was a mess and this,
that, the other thing, whatever,whatever.
And I was the only person thatused to get uncomfortable in
relationships.
I was the only person that usedto get uncomfortable in
relationships.
I was the only one inrelationships that wanted to
overgive.
And then I went to Al-Anon andI was like, oh, I'm in a place
of a thousand or a gazillionover givers.
Then I was in Sex Love AddictsAnonymous and I'm listening to
(47:50):
them talk about how they went onthe third date and they fell in
love.
I'm like, oh, I'm not the onlyone that gets infatuated, this
happens all the time, right?
Or adult children of alcoholics.
And they have this wholecharacter thing too, about what
happens to children who eitherwere children of alcoholics or
children of dry alcoholics,which just means like people who
(48:12):
have alcoholic tendencies butthey didn't drink, and children
of dysfunctional families, and Ithought, oh okay, so we have 12
steps and people think thatthese rooms are really for
people that are really different, but in actuality these are
just people that have the normalthings that happen in the world
and they just go to a roomtogether.
(48:34):
This is basically the wholepopulation and they're just in
different rooms.
It's sort of like you're inhigh school and you just have,
you know, 12-1, 12-2, 12-3.
You just have different, buteverybody's a senior.
That's how it felt, likeEverybody here is a senior in
life and you're just pluggingalong.
You just pick a room and in anyroom there's something and
(48:54):
there's this big phrase in 12Step that says take what works
and leave the rest.
And it was really helpful forme.
It sort of normalized thingsthat potentially I either
pathologized Is that the wordPathologize About myself, where
I was like I am this, I am that,I am this, and I was like, oh,
(49:17):
I am normal, this is supernormal.
Yes, I can get better, there isrecovery.
I can choose to show up as adifferent human and I am not bad
, wrong, dysfunctioned becauseof it.
This is technically what thereal deal looks like.
(49:37):
Most people don't come to theserooms, most people don't talk
about this, but as I started towatch people, I was like, oh,
this person could be in an ACAroom.
Oh, yeah, this person couldtotally be in an AA room.
Oh, yes, this person could bein an NA room.
Oh, this person could be.
And it was just I don'tprescribe these things for
people, but as you're watchingand just walking through the
(49:59):
world, you could really see it.
So thank you for bringing that12-step in, brenda for me.
For me, it just made me feelnormal.
I was like, oh, there's nothingwrong with me, I'm just human
with these other humans.
Some, some humans are willingto admit that this is a struggle
(50:19):
.
Some are not.
And, yes, very few people arenot human.
We're just all human beingstrying to do the best we can
with what we have.
So I think we're we're gettingto, we're getting there.
Speaker 2 (50:34):
We're bozos on the bus.
I think they say that in AAwe're all just bozos on the bus.
You're just another bozo on thebus.
Yeah, 12 step is really good,and we are getting to the end
here.
And what I want to add to whatyou were saying about recovery,
about being in a 12 step room,is that you're in the field of
(50:54):
recovery, about being in a12-step room, is that you're in
the field of recovery, and sogoing to a meeting is like
sanity, providing Every time Iwould feel confused or messed up
or whatever, just I would feelupset, I was having a problem of
some kind.
Just I would go to a meetingand it would.
(51:17):
Oh, just being in a room thatwas in the field of recovery
gave me hope, as opposed tositting by myself in the problem
.
And it's the same thing aboutputting yourself in the rooms
with a teacher or a coach.
You're in the field ofpossibility and recovery, and
every time you do that, you aremaking a deposit in the bank.
(51:41):
You're making a deposit in thebank of you by investing in
yourself.
Every time you do any of thesethings, you're making a deposit,
and that's how you build yourbank of change.
And I want to also say that thiswhole podcast is one of the
(52:01):
things that we talked about onthis episode, which is hanging
out with your sister, with yourfriend, talking about the good
stuff, and you know, many timeswe talked about you and I have
had quite an education in allthe courses and communities and
coaches that we have invested inover the years.
(52:23):
I think for both of us it's atleast 15 years of work.
So, yep, she's saying yes, thiswhole podcast is our digestion,
it's our giving back.
This whole podcast is ourdigestion, it's our giving back.
It's us digesting all thethings that we've learned and
sharing it with you, and we'reso happy that you're listening.
(52:45):
We want to hear about yourdesires.
We want to hear what is it thatyou want in your life?
What change are you currentlytrying to create in your life
and how are you doing that?
What are you bumping up against?
Does anything in this episoderesonate for you?
We would love to hear it.
You can email us, you can tagus on Instagram.
(53:11):
We would love to hear from you.
And with that, thank you somuch for joining us until next
time.
Speaker 1 (53:25):
Thank you for joining us on the Desire is Medicine
podcast Desire invites us to behonest, loving and deeply
intimate with ourselves andothers.
You can find our handles in theshow notes.
We'd love to hear from you.
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