February 6, 2025 • 42 mins
In this Behind the Scenes episode we unravel our personal journey of podcasting, marked by unexpected challenges and triumphs. We vulnerably share how the start of 2025 threw curveballs our way, including a tech glitch that swallowed an entire episode, Catherine's bout with sickness and Brenda's dog unexpectedly dying.
Through these experiences, we discovered the power of balancing desire and fear, and how perfectionism and conflicting desires shape our lives and creative process. We dive into our experiences of navigating desire amidst life's unpredictability, sickness, the overall messiness of living a life led by desire and truth. Embracing authenticity and connection transforms our challenges into valuable life lessons.
Highlights of this episode:
• The personal challenges we faced in January
• Balance between desire and reality's unpredictabilities
• Expansion and contraction cycle in life experiences
• Importance of communication and connection in partnerships
• How to honor one’s own emotional rhythm and wellbeing
• Encouraging grace and gentleness during difficult times
• Reinforcing the significance of showing up authentically for ourselves and others
How did you like this episode? Tell us everything, we'd love to hear from you.
If you'd like to learn more about 1:1 or group coaching with Brenda or Catherine message them and book a Sales Call to learn more.
Email:
desireasmedicine@gmail.com
goddessbrenda24@gmail.com
catherine@catherinenavarro.com
Instagram:
@desireasmedicinepodcast
@Brenda_Fredericks
@CoachCatherineN
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Desire is Medicine.
We are two very different womenliving a life led by desire,
inviting you into our world.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm Brenda.
I'm a devoted practitioner tobeing my fully expressed true
self in my daily life.
Motherhood relationships and mybusiness Desire has taken me on
quite a ride and every day Ipractice listening to and
following the voice within.
I'm a middle school teacherturned coach and guide of the
feminine.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the
truest and hopefully thehighest version of me.
I don't have children, I'venever been married.
I've spent equal parts of mylife in corporate as in some
down and low shady spaces.
I was the epitome of tired andwired and my path led me to
explore desire.
I'm a coach, guide, energyworker and a forever student.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Even after decades of inner work, we are humble
beginners on the mat, stillexploring, always curious.
We believe that listening toand following the nudge of
desire is a deep spiritualpractice that helps us grow.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
On the Desires Medicine podcast.
We talk to each other, weinterview people we know and
love about the practice ofdesire, bringing in a very
important piece that is oftenoverlooked being responsible for
our desire.
Welcome back, hello, friends,family, as always, I am joined
(01:35):
by my lovely co-host.
Wow, what a ride 2025.
Friends, I cannot even begin totell you what behind the scenes
.
My desire today is to fill youin on all that has been
happening so you get to see alittle glimpse of how Brenda and
I have to also struggle withour own fears, our conflicting
(02:00):
desires, how we handle them,what it looks like in our
perfectly imperfect lives, howwe traverse the terrain when we
fall like, when we areexperiencing failures, when
things are not running smoothly,because the truth is that life
(02:22):
isn't always smooth, because thetruth is that life isn't always
smooth.
I've had mentors say and Irepeat this often life is 50-50.
50% yum and 50% yuck.
So I have definitelyexperienced some yucky things.
So has my co-host, and it put alittle bit of a kink for us in
(02:46):
our podcasting.
So let me tell you what I mean.
2025 came in.
Brenda and I were rocking androlling.
We had these great podcasts,like we had Word of the Year and
we had an End of Year.
We dropped two episodes theweek of Christmas.
It felt so generous.
(03:07):
We had some episodes recordedand edited.
They were in the vault becauseboth she and I really value
family and Brenda was going tobe traveling.
I wasn't going to be travelinguntil the end of January, so I
wasn't so worried about that andwe were like, okay, great,
we're all set.
(03:27):
We're set to like the firstweek of January as far as
recordings, we're able to dropevery Wednesday.
We're excited, we're psyched.
It feels so good on our nervoussystem when we just have some
episodes recorded and ready torock and roll to share with
everyone.
And ready to rock and roll toshare with everyone Because they
serve a dual well.
Actually, I want to say theyserve three purposes.
(03:49):
First purpose, right, is thatwe have a podcast.
It's called the Desire asMedicine podcast and our desire
is to drop podcasts.
We further then want to droponce a week.
And then our nervous systemfeels really good when we have
some in the bank.
So they're sort of in a vaultsomewhere, as if you could think
of a bank.
Sometimes we have one week,sometimes we have four weeks.
(04:12):
It's really feels good to belike four weeks out.
So having a bank helps the body, or at least our bodies overall
, just sort of relax into whenwe show up and we meet once a
week.
We meet come hell or high water, like we're meeting once a week
in one way or another.
Sometimes we're on the phone,sometimes we're just texting
(04:33):
back and forth if that's all wehave, and sometimes we're
meeting just to stay connectedand we're not even recording
right.
And then 2025 came in, feelingreally good.
I told you about some of theepisodes.
Then we had Sarah on, which wasgreat.
So lovely to have her.
She's like Brenda.
She came very highly edified byBrenda.
(04:55):
Brenda's like she's amazing.
I'm like great.
Podcast was great.
We have Shane on Shane'stalking about fear Another
amazing episode.
They actually have had reallyhigh download counts.
People have really loved them.
We dropped another toolboxedition on the universal list,
(05:19):
which, if you haven't listenedto any of these, please go check
them out.
Highly recommend, loved themall.
And then we I can only gigglelisten to any of these.
Please go check them out.
Highly recommend, loved themall.
And then I can only gigglebecause on the 7th of January
for me, I completely just gotsick and was out of commission.
When I say sick, I mean Iwasn't feeling better until
(05:40):
about the 26th of January, soeasily three weeks out, three
plus weeks out.
In the middle of that,somewhere Brenda and I meet,
maybe the 15th or somewherearound those.
It was about two weeks laterafter I got sick.
I can hear it in my voice onthe recording, but anyway, we're
(06:04):
like in it.
Brenda and I are excited we'redoing this and we record an
episode on fear of which,unfortunately, you guys will not
hear because part of it justdisappeared.
We had a tech glitch and itjust went to podcast.
Either hell or heaven, I don'treally know, but it just went
away and it's gone.
(06:25):
So the part of the recordingthat we were able to salvage
doesn't really make sense.
So it's like what I have adesire.
I'm a podcaster, I have aco-host, I was sick and then I
was getting ready to travel andit just was not working out.
And sometimes things don't workout and like, how do we stay in
(06:49):
the room when things aren'tworking out?
How do we stay in the roomwhere there's just so many
things happening?
And my perfectionist there's apart of me that wants things
done a particular way.
I want the podcast to have aparticular storyline arc.
I almost want to feel likeChandra Rimes, like this is my
(07:11):
week's episode Desire asMedicine podcast, as if it was
Grey's Anatomy.
This is what it looks like andyeah, folks, the recording was
gone.
There's nothing in the bankright now.
We were going to potentiallytry to salvage the fear episode
today and it just didn't feelright.
So we're bringing to you thebehind the scenes so that you
(07:32):
can, I guess, share with us inour moment of what it feels like
when you want things to happenin a particular way.
You have a form you want it tohappen in, so that it feels good
, and it's just not happening.
And other things are happeningin life.
(07:53):
So for me, I felt a bitdeflated, while at the same time
committed to record and to showup, because ultimately, my
desire is that everybody knowswhat it's like to live a life
(08:13):
led by desire, and part of how Icommit to that is by showing up
.
So for me, I felt kind of likeah, I hate that this is
happening, and now I get toshare with you that I hate that
this is happening.
Brenda, how has this timeframebeen for you?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Thank you for that, catherine.
Living a life led by desire.
I think that's like thefoundation of what we're talking
about here, and what came upfor me when you were talking
about all of this is living alife led by desire is you don't
really know what's going tohappen.
There's no guarantee.
You know you're kind ofsometimes, you know, just free
(09:00):
flowing.
You know we're working withwhat's true and being present
with what actually is.
We're honoring our own energy,our capacity.
We don working with what's trueand being present with what
actually is.
We're honoring our own energy,our capacity.
We don't go with force.
We take good care of ourselvesbehind the scenes and we really
prepare.
And even with all of that,there's really no guarantee.
(09:20):
And so living a life led bydesire is being with what is
present and going on the ride oflife.
Life takes you on a ride and itreally does take some self-love
and care for yourself.
And care for yourself and inour own connection between you
(09:45):
and I, catherine, honestyconnection, talking it through,
sitting through all.
You know the difficult momentswhen we lost our episode and we
thought we were on this greatroll and then, oh, we're not on
a roll at all Like every, thekind of a bottom fell out a
little bit right and just beingpresent with that.
I know that we've both been onour own journey and built up our
(10:09):
own personal capacity for beingwith that and we couldn't have
really this wouldn't have goneso well a year ago Like we've
really started.
We've been doing this podcast.
I think we have 74, 75 episodes.
This will be 76.
(10:29):
And it's taken us this long toreally build up our capacity to
be with it when the bottom fallsout.
And this is a life led bydesire.
You know we're not pushingthrough in full transparency,
since we're giving you listenersa behind the scenes.
We had a bunch of episodes.
(10:50):
We like things in the bank.
It's like having money in thebank.
It just feels really good andwe like to have episodes in the
bank.
Going back to December, we spenta lot of time recording and
really building up our bank andwe felt great about it.
And I want to say we felt sofreaking great about it that we
dropped two episodes onChristmas.
(11:11):
We dropped one on Christmas Eveand one on Christmas day and
that was a real sign of ourexpansion, of all the work and
time and commitment and energyand love that we put into
ourselves and this podcast andeach other, and that was a real
expansion to Drop Two onChristmas.
(11:32):
And what came up for me whenyou were introing this episode
was that after expansions thereare natural contractions.
It's just the way it goes.
And we are in winter.
It is a time where things kindof go into hibernation a little
(11:53):
bit.
I wouldn't say that we're inhibernation, but we did have an
expansion and I would say thatwe have had a contraction.
I would say that in January,desires Medicine, brenda and
Catherine all of us have had acontraction.
I would say that in January,desires Medicine, brenda and
Catherine all of us have had acontraction and it's been hard
(12:16):
in some ways and it's also beenreally beautiful in a lot of
ways Say more Beautiful.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
In what ways?
In a lot of ways, say morebeautiful.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
In what ways?
Beautiful?
Okay, I'm going to try andframe this.
So Catherine has influenced mebeautifully with this podcast.
She holds a really big pole fordropping every week.
I don't think that if I had myown podcast I would do that and
(12:52):
so I have really grown in thatcommitment and it's been
beautiful.
That commitment that I've hadhere with this podcast has
expanded me in my own life andinside of that.
I don't even remember what theday was, but there was one day
where I was just I don't know.
We were supposed to record,things weren't going well.
(13:14):
I don't remember thecircumstances Maybe, maybe you
do and Catherine said to melet's just not record, we just
won't drop this week, let's justnot record, we just won't drop
this week.
And that touched me so deeplybecause it's so important to her
to drop every week and we don'tdo it by force, it's with
(13:34):
commitment and showing up forourselves.
It's very different energy andI was really touched by that
when you said it and I was ableto really receive the beauty of
that and the love of the truthof that and then also return it
back when you were sick and wewere supposed to record.
(13:55):
There was one day a few weeksago, early January, where we had
a whole recording day and wehad a whole docket of what we
were going to record who evenknows what that was anymore?
And Catherine was sick there'sno way that she could have
recorded.
We didn't meet and then it wenton for quite a while.
She was sick, for much longerthan she expected or wanted and
(14:23):
I was like, oh okay, we're notrecording, Even though I was
like ready to go, so psychedabout what we were going to
record.
My friend is unable, and sothere's something really
beautiful in that, in beingpresent with the truth and being
really compassionate andputting your agenda aside for
(14:45):
the presence and love andcompassion of your partner.
So that's what I mean by it wasreally beautiful.
That's just one example.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
There's many.
I appreciate that reminder.
Yes, I do remember somethingwas happening for you and I just
thought maybe we don't recordand I do remember you receiving
it so graciously.
And it's true, I don't know ifI would have had, prior to this
(15:14):
podcast, an example of what thatlooks like.
So, yes, I have a commitment.
I hold a poll for dropping oncea week.
Every week, dropping on aparticular day.
It hasn't been completelyconsistent.
Yes, this will be episode 76.
It hasn't been completelyconsistent.
Yes, this will be episode 76.
It hasn't been consistent thewhole time.
Sometimes we drop on a Thursday.
On occasion it's been a Friday,but it's either been possible
(15:36):
because we've had recordings inthe bank or we've really batched
, and honoring what's true isnot always convenient.
We even had a guest, a lovelyguest, that we want to bring to
you guys, but I'm not even goingto say who it is.
(15:57):
We've attempted to record withthis person a few times and it
just hasn't fallen through.
And this is just another timewhere we had to say I'm so sorry
.
So, to give an example, or Iwas sick for about seven days
before I saw the doctor.
Then he put me on antibioticsfor 10 days and I wasn't really
feeling better until about the10th day.
(16:18):
So it was about two and a halfweeks before I actually started
to feel better.
When we canceled that recordingwith our guest, I even had lost
my voice.
When we say I was sick, I wassuper sick.
There was no way we could do itand I don't even know how I
(16:38):
showed up for the fear episodethat we recorded that we had so
many tech issues on it.
It was the first time weexperienced that.
We've had tech issues on it.
It was the first time weexperienced that, like, we've
had tech issues.
Clearly, we are recording on aplatform it's software.
There will have issues, thatsort of thing but our software
just closed out in the middle ofus talking.
(17:00):
We thought we had it.
We didn't.
I don't even know how my voicelasted that day, but Brenda just
said something you know, likeit hasn't been my force.
We've been able to drop once aweek, not by forces, by
commitment and by properplanning, like saying to
ourselves okay, if you're goingto be in Asheville on this day,
if I'm going to be I traveled toCanada in January if I'm going
(17:23):
to be over there, like, how dowe maneuver things so that it
feels good, so that we can showup for one another, we can show
up for the podcast and, yes,this is a behind the scenes, but
at the same time it's a behindthe scenes for you to see how we
live our lives, led by desire,led by truth, led by life force.
And how do we still show up,create what we want to create
(17:48):
while life is still lifing, likelife is still happening.
Like I said originally orearlier in this recording,
sometimes 50% of life just isyuck.
It's not what we want.
And I can't get stuck on thedot right Like.
I can't get stuck on the formof what it looks like.
I can't get stuck on the dotright Like I can't get stuck on
(18:09):
the form of what it looks like.
There have been times where,even though I want to drop every
Wednesday for X, y or Z reasons, we have to move the recording
date because maybe I'm sick or Ilost my voice, or I offer it to
Brenda, even if she's like no,I'm good, I can show up for this
(18:31):
.
I have a level of commitment todo it and we have to have like
a realistic line of grace forone another, for who we're in
relationship with, for what wehave committed to, for how we
want to show up in creation.
To show up in creation.
We don't want to show up forsomething come hell or high
water and kill the very essenceof the thing that brings us joy.
(19:01):
We want to do it in such a kindand loving way all around, that
it feels good to be there, Iknow.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
I think there's a spaciousness that comes in when
you do that.
There's a spaciousness when youhave grace, because if you are
going by force and you'repushing through, it gets very
tight, gets tight in my body, itgets tight in the room and I
don't really find that theresults of that have been really
juicy.
It blocks creativity, it blockscreative life force, right, or
(19:28):
creativity.
And so if we're just withwhat's true and follow the
breadcrumbs of that, we kind ofend up in this beautiful place
anyway and we end up recording.
It's a funny little paradox,right, because either way we
were going to record, eitherforce it or you follow the truth
(19:49):
.
And I think we've had a lot ofgrace with ourselves.
And there were some times where, you know, we had a lot of
things in the bank and and thenwe lost our fear episode which
we would have dropped to thisweek.
We tried to piece it together.
It was not true to do, eventhough it was.
There were a lot of good thingsin it.
Not the first time we've tossedan episode, maybe won't be the
(20:17):
last, but you know we plan thebest that we can and then, like
you said, life happens andthere's no way, when we planned
in December, that we could haveforeseen what January would have
brought.
I think it's a really goodreminder to remember that.
First of all, after theholidays, I do generally get
very tired.
I think it's a really goodreminder to remember that, first
of all, after the holidays, Ido generally get very tired.
I just need some rest.
There is a natural going downthat happens around the new year
.
You know, it's winter, it's theholidays, it's kind of a time
(20:40):
to hunker down.
I know that I do that, but Ididn't expect what came next,
like just as I was gettingbetter and getting energy back,
I was in Asheville with myfamily for a month.
As I was leaving Asheville, mycar was packed with my partner
and my dog.
And now just a little backstory.
(21:01):
My dog had not been doing well.
We were just noticing he's notdoing well.
We thought it was the travel,because we've been on an
adventure for the past fewmonths.
And there was just this momentthat hit me one week into
January, where I looked at himand this truth landed in my body
oh, my God, he's dying.
I had no information of whatthat meant, but we took him
(21:25):
right to the vet with our carpacked.
We were planning on leavingAsheville to find out that he
had lymphoma and he was dyingand there was really nothing
that we could do, and that wasdevastating because he was only
eight years old and he had manyyears left.
So that was shocking.
(21:45):
It was a shock to the systemand this was exactly the time
when Catherine was sick.
And the thing about our thirdand usually in partnerships it's
only one of us crying at a timeA lot of times, a lot of the
behind the scenes is Catherineand I connecting and talking and
(22:06):
just sharing life, and we are,you know, dear friends, and
usually it's only one of uscrying at the same time and the
other one's, like, doing prettygood.
So one person could kind oftake the reins a little bit more
.
But in January, folks, we wereboth under the weather.
Catherine was super sick, wehad to cancel our podcast guest
(22:31):
for the third time and I wasdealing with my dog dying and he
died within the week.
And that was you said January7th.
You got this that you were sick.
That was the same within a daythat I found out that my dog was
dying, and so we were both outat the same exact time and we
(22:53):
had some things in the bank sowe're able to drop them.
But it's taken us some time tokind of get back on our feet and
get our strength back, and I'vebeen doing that.
I was recently in Denver and Iwas in this great city and
mostly I just hung out in thehotel room and drank green juice
(23:13):
and took care of myself andCatherine's over here on the
mend.
So it takes a while to get backinto it and we just have to
have grace with ourselves.
But we were both out at thesame time is the point, and that
was really hard because therewas no one to hold the reins.
Oh wait, but you know what?
You know who was holding thereins?
(23:33):
She's looking at me.
Our third, the third of thispodcast, the creation that we've
made was actually holding bothof us.
I feel like I want to crysaying that was actually holding
both of us.
I feel like I want to crysaying that.
But the what, what we created,this podcast, actually held us
(23:56):
through, because we've created asystem and systems inside of
systems that really work, thatwe've built up over time, and
that is what held us through.
I'm really proud of that.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I'm really proud of that too.
Thank you for the reminder ofsystems.
I'm trying to think of ananalogy for our listeners of
what that looks like in, youknow, outside of, let's say, the
podcast dynamic.
So one of the systems would bethat could translate is that
Brenda and I talk once a week atthe very least, and if not, we
(24:31):
check in sort of like throughoutthe week to see how things are
moving, how things are evolving,to sort of check in with one
another.
So if we were in relationshipor just in friendship, that's a
great system to have because youknow how the other is doing and
you sort of have a pulse onwhat's happening for them.
Earlier today, when Brenda and Iwere talking, we were talking
(24:51):
about fear, because that was theepisode that sort of got
trashed today.
And it's true, we have killedmany little darlings, as they
say podcast darlings, forwhatever X, y or Z reasons.
Sometimes we record somethingand it's too vulnerable to share
and then we're like did I justsay that for the whole world?
(25:11):
And it's just like delete.
And I'm good with that.
But back to our third andsystems.
We were talking and I said toBrenda oh, I feel your body and
it feels like something'shappening and Brenda right now
is at high altitude and she wasdescribing yes, I'm in high
sensation and these are systems.
(25:33):
We could call it systems whenyou think of, like a software
system or your hard drive or, Idon't know, google Chrome.
But what we mean, even when wesay systems, is do you check in
with the people that you'recreating with?
Do you check in with the peoplethat you're doing life with?
Do you feel into the bodilysystems, like the nervous
(25:57):
systems of the people thatyou're creating with?
It's important to do thatbecause they are half of the
equation and you want to have afeel for how the whole ecosystem
is doing.
So, yes, I would agree, Ihadn't thought about that, but
the systems within the podcastour third definitely did hold us
(26:21):
.
We did have ways of stayingconnected and thinking about
ways of staying connected andthinking about, okay, what's
next?
And that would bring me tosharing with you guys, like one
of the best ways to get back ontrack when things fall off is
what's the next step, likewhat's the smallest next step
(26:42):
for me.
So I see my Cairo once a week.
I love that system of self-careand normally it's on a
Wednesday and today's aWednesday.
But the truth is that I neededmore time and space with Brenda
and Brenda's like, no, don'tcancel it.
(27:03):
Definitely you can make theappointment.
But I was like I don't want tofeel so compressed.
I'm just coming out of a coldand, yes, it would be very
supportive to my body to go dothis, but my body's really not
(27:23):
doing that bad.
I'm getting over a cold, I'mokay.
I don't necessarily have anypain anywhere or I'm not
traveling.
My immune system isn't at thebrink for X, y or Z reason right
now, but the podcast does needmy attention.
Us, our third needs myattention.
So that meant that I had toforego that and do this, and I
(27:48):
share this, because last week wetalked about choice point and
the truth is that these are thelittle choices that we make
along the way that show theuniverse what's important to us
and reinforces even to ourselves, like, oh, I really desire this
.
Yes, I really want to show upfor the podcast.
(28:09):
Yes, I really want to drop.
I really want to share, notjust of my life, but talk about
desire and a life led by desire.
And what does that look like ona day-to-day basis?
And what better way to showthan to show and tell, like to
show how it shows, how desireshows up in our lives, how we
work through the pieces whenthings are kind of I guess today
(28:32):
would be falling apart and howdo we create that space for
ourselves so that we can do thesmallest next step when we are
falling off?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
I love this part of the conversation we're talking
about how do you get back ontrack, no-transcript about what
(29:16):
is the next best step, and Ireally appreciate this idea of I
don't want to just jam pack myschedule and just go back to how
it's always been because yourcapacity isn't the same, and
just go back to how it's alwaysbeen because your capacity isn't
the same and I would say formyself, for me, a next best step
(29:36):
, which was today, since we'redoing behind the scenes.
I just got to the mountains inColorado.
I'm at a pretty high altitude.
I was a little nervous about it.
I had to go over this BerthoudPass, which was super high and
just had some fear around that,which I moved through and it was
absolutely beautiful.
But I've been moving and thehigh altitude really affected my
body.
(29:56):
And the way I needed to show upin order to get to this moment
here was getting on this callwith Catherine like three hours
ago and having radical honesty.
It's like where am I right now?
I cannot bypass that ever.
I just can't bypass it and justact like everything's okay or
(30:18):
just show up to record foranything.
I need to be present with whatis and that looks different,
different times.
In this case, since we're in aproject together, being honest
with Catherine and sharing whereI am and just you know, in full
transparency, just letting sometears come through, crying,
(30:40):
sharing some fears and justmoving through it and being
being present, I think it's areally loving act to do that.
Those are the next steps ofgetting back on track, Because
you don't just jump back on thetrain.
You know, I think it's.
(31:01):
It's a false idea that you justget, you're just better, you
just you're just back on track.
No, there's a transition period, because we have bodies and we
have emotions and they want tobe tended to and when you tend
to them, it's actually muchfaster than trying to avoid or
resist.
The resistance is the worst.
(31:23):
The resistance or thepretending that everything's
okay and everything's back ontrack and I could do everything.
No, you can't.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
We can pretend.
Yeah, we can pretend.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
We can pretend or override override your body,
Like I remember when I wasteaching, I would have like
maybe a week and a half or twoweeks off for Christmas holiday.
I would come back after newyear and that wasn't a regular
work day for me.
I mean it was in the sense ofoh, the school day is happening,
I'm a teacher, I have to showup.
But I made it really good formyself Even before I knew about
(32:02):
all of this that we're talkingabout.
I made it really good formyself and I kept it really easy
and I didn't make any big plansthat first week back, because I
knew that after a week and ahalf of holiday and eating
chocolate and playing with mykids, that I needed a transition
period to get myself back ontrack.
And I created a lot of space, alot of space for myself.
(32:23):
Space is grace.
That was very corny, but that'strue.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
No space, I think is not just great, but helpful.
I want to say like space isreally helpful.
I like where we're going here.
You, Brenda, spoke about theexpansion we had around
Christmas.
I had not thought about that,but it makes complete sense now
that you bring it forth.
(32:49):
Yes, we did have a hugeexpansion.
I remember being super excitedand being like, oh yes, we're
going to drop these two duringthis week and it felt like no
big deal.
Well, haha, jokes on me.
Now.
Week and it felt like no bigdeal.
Well, haha, joke's on me.
Now I can see that it's a bigdeal.
Brenda was like, I think thisis an expansion for us.
I was like, oh, it's going tobe great.
Now I'm like, oh, I reallydidn't.
(33:14):
I don't think I gave that actthe gravity that it deserved,
potentially because contractionnaturally follows an expansion.
That's sort of like universallaw.
And yes, if we're looking atexpansion and contraction,
(33:37):
another way of describing it istransition time, and space is
really needed in that becauseessentially, what happens?
I'm thinking of a differentepisode, that toolbox episode
that we dropped, which was thehavingness expander.
But whenever you have more,give more, stretch, more right.
But whenever you have more,give more, stretch, more right.
(33:58):
There's like a natural snapback in and eventually there's a
sort of settling where it's alittle bit bigger, we have more
capacity, and I'm sure thatcomes even with more systems or
other things in place.
But I had not really thoughtabout this being part of the
(34:20):
overall contraction, becauseit's really not convenient to
think of that If every time wehad an expansion or we thought
we were on the brink ofexpansion, we thought about the
contraction, we would neverstretch, it just would not, at
least for me.
I'd be too afraid.
I'm like no, I don't know whatcomes after this, but it's okay,
(34:41):
it passes.
It doesn't last forever.
This too shall pass.
I am sort of on the mend.
Yes, I didn't jump right backin, even though I had
conflicting desires, desiresOverall.
(35:04):
I can't say that I desire forspace, but I do desire for
smoothness, Like I want thingsto feel I think you said free
flowing earlier, Brenda, I don'tknow if it's necessarily I want
it to feel free flowing, but Iwant to feel grounded, I want to
feel in my element, in mygenius, and that things are just
sort of moving at a pace that Ican really go with.
(35:27):
Just yesterday, by three, fouro'clock I had had a full day and
I hit my wall.
Normally I'm hitting my wallaround five or six.
Three or four is really early,but it makes sense if,
ultimately, we're in acontracted space.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
It does, it makes a lot of sense and it's really
important to honor your capacity.
I think we've both done areally good job with that,
individually and together withour podcast.
We've done a really good job ofhonoring the contraction.
And I think that if we go backto living a life led by desire
and wanting more and wanting toexpand and we do want to expand
(36:05):
this podcast we want morelisteners, we want more great
guests, we want to expand ourown capacity to have it.
It really I think that you doknow that there is a contraction
that happens.
It's good to be aware of thatand, like you said, you don't
want to be like, oh no, I'mgoing to expand and then I'm
going to contract.
But I think in my ambientattention, it's great to know oh
(36:28):
, I'm in an expansion, somethinghuge is happening and there
might be a contractionafterwards.
Now you don't need to give thatany attention, you don't need
to worry about it or go on theride of it, but it really is
nice to have it in your ambientattention and say, oh, this is
an expansion, so that when thecontraction happens and it might
(36:49):
be really small, it might besuper small, it doesn't have to
be small.
Big.
This was a big one.
For us, this was a really bigcontraction and I think it's
really great to notice that itwas a contraction and we have a
couple of great episodes on that, like the Havingness Expander
(37:09):
episode 69.
And we talk about that in 68,.
Also, how to create lastingchange, because we're talking
about a life led by desire,means that you want more, and
that's okay to want more.
Just because you have yourdesire doesn't mean that you're
done desiring things.
It's not greedy to want more Ifthere's something deep in your
(37:34):
soul that's running through yourbody that's saying I got
married, oh, and now I wantchildren.
Whatever the thing is for you,it's good to want more.
We're supposed to have anenjoyable, full life with our
creativity and our life forcerunning through us.
That is why we're here on thisplanet.
(37:55):
So in order to do that, we needto be able to build our capacity
for more, and that takes time,and part of that is noticing
that after an expansion, thereis often a contraction and you
don't need to make a problem.
This is a really big point thatI want to say, and this came up
this morning when I was cryingto Catherine.
(38:16):
I was saying I could seeobjectively.
I'm having a reaction to highaltitude.
Maybe I'm tired because we'vebeen traveling, but there's
really no problem.
I don't need to go on the rideof any problem.
I just can see it for what itis, stay neutral with it and
take the next best steps withwhatever I'm doing in my life,
(38:39):
love.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
This I'm thinking of.
We're talking about expansionand contraction, and you gave
the example of what you weretalking about earlier today when
we were chatting.
I think anything that we giveairtime to sort of diminishes
the charge, because when we'renot sharing about it, it's only
(39:00):
happening in our own universe,in our own awareness, and it can
feel so big.
It's like this huge umbrellathat can just bring us down.
So, ultimately, what I'm tryingto share is sometimes our mind
(39:22):
will play tricks on us and makesomething really big, whether
it's about the contraction orthe expansion, or fear, shame,
guilt.
But if we can just stayconnected, ideally, with other
and if that's not available toyou, then in a journal, stay
connected with yourself, air itout, write it down.
(39:45):
Don't have it be somethingthat's looming over you.
It doesn't have to be perfect.
Living a life led by desiredoes not have to be perfect.
We don't have to booby trap ourlife to make sure that things
don't go wrong, because here'sthe secret.
Have to booby trap our life tomake sure that things don't go
wrong, because here's the secretit will go wrong, things will
happen, and it's not about howmany times you go down, it's
(40:08):
about how many times you comeback up and that you just keep
on going because nothing isbetter than a life well-lived.
Nothing is better than a lifelived.
Let's all just stay in the gameto the best of our ability.
Nothing is better than a lifelived Like.
Let's all just stay in the gameto the best of our ability.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Nothing is better than a life well lived.
I love that.
I mean, that's why we'refollowing desire in the first
place, right, because we want alife that we are really excited
about, and that means giving upthe creature comforts of safety
and security.
Sometimes you don't have to,right, I guess you give up,
(40:44):
knowing for certain, becauseyou're not forcing it and making
it happen.
And so I am with you on a lifewell-lived.
We're talking about beingpresent and honest with whoever,
or yourself.
I'm noticing that we that'swhat this episode is, that's
what this entire episode is.
Let's be honest with ouraudience and let's record on the
(41:07):
actual, real things that we'vebeen going through in the last
month and really share, from aplace of authenticity and truth
and messiness and uncertainty.
What's happening behind thescenes.
And even with all of that, ourcommitment is here.
We are here for ourselves, foreach other, for our listeners,
(41:34):
for the podcast, and that'ssomething to really be proud of.
Thank you for being with us, forsticking with us.
We would love to hear what messhappened for you in January it
feels like a lot of people hadthat happening and how did you
stay present with it, how didyou stay committed and what are
your takeaways from this episode?
(41:55):
And may we all have a life welllived.
Amen and thank you for beingwith us today.
Thank you for joining us on theDesire is Medicine podcast.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Desire invites us to be honest, loving and deeply
intimate with ourselves andothers.
You can find our handles in theshow notes.
We'd love to hear from you.
Welcome to Desire is Medicine.
We are two very different womenliving a life led by desire,
inviting you into our world.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm Brenda.
I'm a devoted practitioner tobeing my fully expressed true
self in my daily life.
Motherhood relationships and mybusiness Desire has taken me on
quite a ride and every day Ipractice listening to and
following the voice within.
I'm a middle school teacherturned coach and guide of the
feminine.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the
truest and hopefully thehighest version of me.
I don't have children, I'venever been married.
I've spent equal parts of mylife in corporate as in some
down and low shady spaces.
I was the epitome of tired andwired and my path led me to
explore desire.
I'm a coach, guide, energyworker and a forever student.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Even after decades of inner work, we are humble
beginners on the mat, stillexploring, always curious.
We believe that listening toand following the nudge of
desire is a deep spiritualpractice that helps us grow.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
On the Desires Medicine podcast.
We talk to each other, weinterview people we know and
love about the practice ofdesire, bringing in a very
important piece that is oftenoverlooked being responsible for
our desire.
Welcome back, hello, friends,family, as always, I am joined
(01:35):
by my lovely co-host.
Wow, what a ride 2025.
Friends, I cannot even begin totell you what behind the scenes
.
My desire today is to fill youin on all that has been
happening so you get to see alittle glimpse of how Brenda and
I have to also struggle withour own fears, our conflicting
(02:00):
desires, how we handle them,what it looks like in our
perfectly imperfect lives, howwe traverse the terrain when we
fall like, when we areexperiencing failures, when
things are not running smoothly,because the truth is that life
(02:22):
isn't always smooth, because thetruth is that life isn't always
smooth.
I've had mentors say and Irepeat this often life is 50-50.
50% yum and 50% yuck.
So I have definitelyexperienced some yucky things.
So has my co-host, and it put alittle bit of a kink for us in
(02:46):
our podcasting.
So let me tell you what I mean.
2025 came in.
Brenda and I were rocking androlling.
We had these great podcasts,like we had Word of the Year and
we had an End of Year.
We dropped two episodes theweek of Christmas.
It felt so generous.
(03:07):
We had some episodes recordedand edited.
They were in the vault becauseboth she and I really value
family and Brenda was going tobe traveling.
I wasn't going to be travelinguntil the end of January, so I
wasn't so worried about that andwe were like, okay, great,
we're all set.
(03:27):
We're set to like the firstweek of January as far as
recordings, we're able to dropevery Wednesday.
We're excited, we're psyched.
It feels so good on our nervoussystem when we just have some
episodes recorded and ready torock and roll to share with
everyone.
And ready to rock and roll toshare with everyone Because they
serve a dual well.
Actually, I want to say theyserve three purposes.
(03:49):
First purpose, right, is thatwe have a podcast.
It's called the Desire asMedicine podcast and our desire
is to drop podcasts.
We further then want to droponce a week.
And then our nervous systemfeels really good when we have
some in the bank.
So they're sort of in a vaultsomewhere, as if you could think
of a bank.
Sometimes we have one week,sometimes we have four weeks.
(04:12):
It's really feels good to belike four weeks out.
So having a bank helps the body, or at least our bodies overall
, just sort of relax into whenwe show up and we meet once a
week.
We meet come hell or high water, like we're meeting once a week
in one way or another.
Sometimes we're on the phone,sometimes we're just texting
(04:33):
back and forth if that's all wehave, and sometimes we're
meeting just to stay connectedand we're not even recording
right.
And then 2025 came in, feelingreally good.
I told you about some of theepisodes.
Then we had Sarah on, which wasgreat.
So lovely to have her.
She's like Brenda.
She came very highly edified byBrenda.
(04:55):
Brenda's like she's amazing.
I'm like great.
Podcast was great.
We have Shane on Shane'stalking about fear Another
amazing episode.
They actually have had reallyhigh download counts.
People have really loved them.
We dropped another toolboxedition on the universal list,
(05:19):
which, if you haven't listenedto any of these, please go check
them out.
Highly recommend, loved themall.
And then we I can only gigglelisten to any of these.
Please go check them out.
Highly recommend, loved themall.
And then I can only gigglebecause on the 7th of January
for me, I completely just gotsick and was out of commission.
When I say sick, I mean Iwasn't feeling better until
(05:40):
about the 26th of January, soeasily three weeks out, three
plus weeks out.
In the middle of that,somewhere Brenda and I meet,
maybe the 15th or somewherearound those.
It was about two weeks laterafter I got sick.
I can hear it in my voice onthe recording, but anyway, we're
(06:04):
like in it.
Brenda and I are excited we'redoing this and we record an
episode on fear of which,unfortunately, you guys will not
hear because part of it justdisappeared.
We had a tech glitch and itjust went to podcast.
Either hell or heaven, I don'treally know, but it just went
away and it's gone.
(06:25):
So the part of the recordingthat we were able to salvage
doesn't really make sense.
So it's like what I have adesire.
I'm a podcaster, I have aco-host, I was sick and then I
was getting ready to travel andit just was not working out.
And sometimes things don't workout and like, how do we stay in
(06:49):
the room when things aren'tworking out?
How do we stay in the roomwhere there's just so many
things happening?
And my perfectionist there's apart of me that wants things
done a particular way.
I want the podcast to have aparticular storyline arc.
I almost want to feel likeChandra Rimes, like this is my
(07:11):
week's episode Desire asMedicine podcast, as if it was
Grey's Anatomy.
This is what it looks like andyeah, folks, the recording was
gone.
There's nothing in the bankright now.
We were going to potentiallytry to salvage the fear episode
today and it just didn't feelright.
So we're bringing to you thebehind the scenes so that you
(07:32):
can, I guess, share with us inour moment of what it feels like
when you want things to happenin a particular way.
You have a form you want it tohappen in, so that it feels good
, and it's just not happening.
And other things are happeningin life.
(07:53):
So for me, I felt a bitdeflated, while at the same time
committed to record and to showup, because ultimately, my
desire is that everybody knowswhat it's like to live a life
(08:13):
led by desire, and part of how Icommit to that is by showing up
.
So for me, I felt kind of likeah, I hate that this is
happening, and now I get toshare with you that I hate that
this is happening.
Brenda, how has this timeframebeen for you?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Thank you for that, catherine.
Living a life led by desire.
I think that's like thefoundation of what we're talking
about here, and what came upfor me when you were talking
about all of this is living alife led by desire is you don't
really know what's going tohappen.
There's no guarantee.
You know you're kind ofsometimes, you know, just free
(09:00):
flowing.
You know we're working withwhat's true and being present
with what actually is.
We're honoring our own energy,our capacity.
We don working with what's trueand being present with what
actually is.
We're honoring our own energy,our capacity.
We don't go with force.
We take good care of ourselvesbehind the scenes and we really
prepare.
And even with all of that,there's really no guarantee.
(09:20):
And so living a life led bydesire is being with what is
present and going on the ride oflife.
Life takes you on a ride and itreally does take some self-love
and care for yourself.
And care for yourself and inour own connection between you
(09:45):
and I, catherine, honestyconnection, talking it through,
sitting through all.
You know the difficult momentswhen we lost our episode and we
thought we were on this greatroll and then, oh, we're not on
a roll at all Like every, thekind of a bottom fell out a
little bit right and just beingpresent with that.
I know that we've both been onour own journey and built up our
(10:09):
own personal capacity for beingwith that and we couldn't have
really this wouldn't have goneso well a year ago Like we've
really started.
We've been doing this podcast.
I think we have 74, 75 episodes.
This will be 76.
(10:29):
And it's taken us this long toreally build up our capacity to
be with it when the bottom fallsout.
And this is a life led bydesire.
You know we're not pushingthrough in full transparency,
since we're giving you listenersa behind the scenes.
We had a bunch of episodes.
(10:50):
We like things in the bank.
It's like having money in thebank.
It just feels really good andwe like to have episodes in the
bank.
Going back to December, we spenta lot of time recording and
really building up our bank andwe felt great about it.
And I want to say we felt sofreaking great about it that we
dropped two episodes onChristmas.
(11:11):
We dropped one on Christmas Eveand one on Christmas day and
that was a real sign of ourexpansion, of all the work and
time and commitment and energyand love that we put into
ourselves and this podcast andeach other, and that was a real
expansion to Drop Two onChristmas.
(11:32):
And what came up for me whenyou were introing this episode
was that after expansions thereare natural contractions.
It's just the way it goes.
And we are in winter.
It is a time where things kindof go into hibernation a little
(11:53):
bit.
I wouldn't say that we're inhibernation, but we did have an
expansion and I would say thatwe have had a contraction.
I would say that in January,desires Medicine, brenda and
Catherine all of us have had acontraction.
I would say that in January,desires Medicine, brenda and
Catherine all of us have had acontraction and it's been hard
(12:16):
in some ways and it's also beenreally beautiful in a lot of
ways Say more Beautiful.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
In what ways?
In a lot of ways, say morebeautiful.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
In what ways?
Beautiful?
Okay, I'm going to try andframe this.
So Catherine has influenced mebeautifully with this podcast.
She holds a really big pole fordropping every week.
I don't think that if I had myown podcast I would do that and
(12:52):
so I have really grown in thatcommitment and it's been
beautiful.
That commitment that I've hadhere with this podcast has
expanded me in my own life andinside of that.
I don't even remember what theday was, but there was one day
where I was just I don't know.
We were supposed to record,things weren't going well.
(13:14):
I don't remember thecircumstances Maybe, maybe you
do and Catherine said to melet's just not record, we just
won't drop this week, let's justnot record, we just won't drop
this week.
And that touched me so deeplybecause it's so important to her
to drop every week and we don'tdo it by force, it's with
(13:34):
commitment and showing up forourselves.
It's very different energy andI was really touched by that
when you said it and I was ableto really receive the beauty of
that and the love of the truthof that and then also return it
back when you were sick and wewere supposed to record.
(13:55):
There was one day a few weeksago, early January, where we had
a whole recording day and wehad a whole docket of what we
were going to record who evenknows what that was anymore?
And Catherine was sick there'sno way that she could have
recorded.
We didn't meet and then it wenton for quite a while.
She was sick, for much longerthan she expected or wanted and
(14:23):
I was like, oh okay, we're notrecording, Even though I was
like ready to go, so psychedabout what we were going to
record.
My friend is unable, and sothere's something really
beautiful in that, in beingpresent with the truth and being
really compassionate andputting your agenda aside for
(14:45):
the presence and love andcompassion of your partner.
So that's what I mean by it wasreally beautiful.
That's just one example.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
There's many.
I appreciate that reminder.
Yes, I do remember somethingwas happening for you and I just
thought maybe we don't recordand I do remember you receiving
it so graciously.
And it's true, I don't know ifI would have had, prior to this
(15:14):
podcast, an example of what thatlooks like.
So, yes, I have a commitment.
I hold a poll for dropping oncea week.
Every week, dropping on aparticular day.
It hasn't been completelyconsistent.
Yes, this will be episode 76.
It hasn't been completelyconsistent.
Yes, this will be episode 76.
It hasn't been consistent thewhole time.
Sometimes we drop on a Thursday.
On occasion it's been a Friday,but it's either been possible
(15:36):
because we've had recordings inthe bank or we've really batched
, and honoring what's true isnot always convenient.
We even had a guest, a lovelyguest, that we want to bring to
you guys, but I'm not even goingto say who it is.
(15:57):
We've attempted to record withthis person a few times and it
just hasn't fallen through.
And this is just another timewhere we had to say I'm so sorry
.
So, to give an example, or Iwas sick for about seven days
before I saw the doctor.
Then he put me on antibioticsfor 10 days and I wasn't really
feeling better until about the10th day.
(16:18):
So it was about two and a halfweeks before I actually started
to feel better.
When we canceled that recordingwith our guest, I even had lost
my voice.
When we say I was sick, I wassuper sick.
There was no way we could do itand I don't even know how I
(16:38):
showed up for the fear episodethat we recorded that we had so
many tech issues on it.
It was the first time weexperienced that.
We've had tech issues on it.
It was the first time weexperienced that, like, we've
had tech issues.
Clearly, we are recording on aplatform it's software.
There will have issues, thatsort of thing but our software
just closed out in the middle ofus talking.
(17:00):
We thought we had it.
We didn't.
I don't even know how my voicelasted that day, but Brenda just
said something you know, likeit hasn't been my force.
We've been able to drop once aweek, not by forces, by
commitment and by properplanning, like saying to
ourselves okay, if you're goingto be in Asheville on this day,
if I'm going to be I traveled toCanada in January if I'm going
(17:23):
to be over there, like, how dowe maneuver things so that it
feels good, so that we can showup for one another, we can show
up for the podcast and, yes,this is a behind the scenes, but
at the same time it's a behindthe scenes for you to see how we
live our lives, led by desire,led by truth, led by life force.
And how do we still show up,create what we want to create
(17:48):
while life is still lifing, likelife is still happening.
Like I said originally orearlier in this recording,
sometimes 50% of life just isyuck.
It's not what we want.
And I can't get stuck on thedot right Like.
I can't get stuck on the formof what it looks like.
I can't get stuck on the dotright Like I can't get stuck on
(18:09):
the form of what it looks like.
There have been times where,even though I want to drop every
Wednesday for X, y or Z reasons, we have to move the recording
date because maybe I'm sick or Ilost my voice, or I offer it to
Brenda, even if she's like no,I'm good, I can show up for this
(18:31):
.
I have a level of commitment todo it and we have to have like
a realistic line of grace forone another, for who we're in
relationship with, for what wehave committed to, for how we
want to show up in creation.
To show up in creation.
We don't want to show up forsomething come hell or high
water and kill the very essenceof the thing that brings us joy.
(19:01):
We want to do it in such a kindand loving way all around, that
it feels good to be there, Iknow.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
I think there's a spaciousness that comes in when
you do that.
There's a spaciousness when youhave grace, because if you are
going by force and you'repushing through, it gets very
tight, gets tight in my body, itgets tight in the room and I
don't really find that theresults of that have been really
juicy.
It blocks creativity, it blockscreative life force, right, or
(19:28):
creativity.
And so if we're just withwhat's true and follow the
breadcrumbs of that, we kind ofend up in this beautiful place
anyway and we end up recording.
It's a funny little paradox,right, because either way we
were going to record, eitherforce it or you follow the truth
(19:49):
.
And I think we've had a lot ofgrace with ourselves.
And there were some times where, you know, we had a lot of
things in the bank and and thenwe lost our fear episode which
we would have dropped to thisweek.
We tried to piece it together.
It was not true to do, eventhough it was.
There were a lot of good thingsin it.
Not the first time we've tossedan episode, maybe won't be the
(20:17):
last, but you know we plan thebest that we can and then, like
you said, life happens andthere's no way, when we planned
in December, that we could haveforeseen what January would have
brought.
I think it's a really goodreminder to remember that.
First of all, after theholidays, I do generally get
very tired.
I think it's a really goodreminder to remember that, first
of all, after the holidays, Ido generally get very tired.
I just need some rest.
There is a natural going downthat happens around the new year
.
You know, it's winter, it's theholidays, it's kind of a time
(20:40):
to hunker down.
I know that I do that, but Ididn't expect what came next,
like just as I was gettingbetter and getting energy back,
I was in Asheville with myfamily for a month.
As I was leaving Asheville, mycar was packed with my partner
and my dog.
And now just a little backstory.
(21:01):
My dog had not been doing well.
We were just noticing he's notdoing well.
We thought it was the travel,because we've been on an
adventure for the past fewmonths.
And there was just this momentthat hit me one week into
January, where I looked at himand this truth landed in my body
oh, my God, he's dying.
I had no information of whatthat meant, but we took him
(21:25):
right to the vet with our carpacked.
We were planning on leavingAsheville to find out that he
had lymphoma and he was dyingand there was really nothing
that we could do, and that wasdevastating because he was only
eight years old and he had manyyears left.
So that was shocking.
(21:45):
It was a shock to the systemand this was exactly the time
when Catherine was sick.
And the thing about our thirdand usually in partnerships it's
only one of us crying at a timeA lot of times, a lot of the
behind the scenes is Catherineand I connecting and talking and
(22:06):
just sharing life, and we are,you know, dear friends, and
usually it's only one of uscrying at the same time and the
other one's, like, doing prettygood.
So one person could kind oftake the reins a little bit more
.
But in January, folks, we wereboth under the weather.
Catherine was super sick, wehad to cancel our podcast guest
(22:31):
for the third time and I wasdealing with my dog dying and he
died within the week.
And that was you said January7th.
You got this that you were sick.
That was the same within a daythat I found out that my dog was
dying, and so we were both outat the same exact time and we
(22:53):
had some things in the bank sowe're able to drop them.
But it's taken us some time tokind of get back on our feet and
get our strength back, and I'vebeen doing that.
I was recently in Denver and Iwas in this great city and
mostly I just hung out in thehotel room and drank green juice
(23:13):
and took care of myself andCatherine's over here on the
mend.
So it takes a while to get backinto it and we just have to
have grace with ourselves.
But we were both out at thesame time is the point, and that
was really hard because therewas no one to hold the reins.
Oh wait, but you know what?
You know who was holding thereins?
(23:33):
She's looking at me.
Our third, the third of thispodcast, the creation that we've
made was actually holding bothof us.
I feel like I want to crysaying that was actually holding
both of us.
I feel like I want to crysaying that.
But the what, what we created,this podcast, actually held us
(23:56):
through, because we've created asystem and systems inside of
systems that really work, thatwe've built up over time, and
that is what held us through.
I'm really proud of that.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I'm really proud of that too.
Thank you for the reminder ofsystems.
I'm trying to think of ananalogy for our listeners of
what that looks like in, youknow, outside of, let's say, the
podcast dynamic.
So one of the systems would bethat could translate is that
Brenda and I talk once a week atthe very least, and if not, we
(24:31):
check in sort of like throughoutthe week to see how things are
moving, how things are evolving,to sort of check in with one
another.
So if we were in relationshipor just in friendship, that's a
great system to have because youknow how the other is doing and
you sort of have a pulse onwhat's happening for them.
Earlier today, when Brenda and Iwere talking, we were talking
(24:51):
about fear, because that was theepisode that sort of got
trashed today.
And it's true, we have killedmany little darlings, as they
say podcast darlings, forwhatever X, y or Z reasons.
Sometimes we record somethingand it's too vulnerable to share
and then we're like did I justsay that for the whole world?
(25:11):
And it's just like delete.
And I'm good with that.
But back to our third andsystems.
We were talking and I said toBrenda oh, I feel your body and
it feels like something'shappening and Brenda right now
is at high altitude and she wasdescribing yes, I'm in high
sensation and these are systems.
(25:33):
We could call it systems whenyou think of, like a software
system or your hard drive or, Idon't know, google Chrome.
But what we mean, even when wesay systems, is do you check in
with the people that you'recreating with?
Do you check in with the peoplethat you're doing life with?
Do you feel into the bodilysystems, like the nervous
(25:57):
systems of the people thatyou're creating with?
It's important to do thatbecause they are half of the
equation and you want to have afeel for how the whole ecosystem
is doing.
So, yes, I would agree, Ihadn't thought about that, but
the systems within the podcastour third definitely did hold us
(26:21):
.
We did have ways of stayingconnected and thinking about
ways of staying connected andthinking about, okay, what's
next?
And that would bring me tosharing with you guys, like one
of the best ways to get back ontrack when things fall off is
what's the next step, likewhat's the smallest next step
(26:42):
for me.
So I see my Cairo once a week.
I love that system of self-careand normally it's on a
Wednesday and today's aWednesday.
But the truth is that I neededmore time and space with Brenda
and Brenda's like, no, don'tcancel it.
(27:03):
Definitely you can make theappointment.
But I was like I don't want tofeel so compressed.
I'm just coming out of a coldand, yes, it would be very
supportive to my body to go dothis, but my body's really not
(27:23):
doing that bad.
I'm getting over a cold, I'mokay.
I don't necessarily have anypain anywhere or I'm not
traveling.
My immune system isn't at thebrink for X, y or Z reason right
now, but the podcast does needmy attention.
Us, our third needs myattention.
So that meant that I had toforego that and do this, and I
(27:48):
share this, because last week wetalked about choice point and
the truth is that these are thelittle choices that we make
along the way that show theuniverse what's important to us
and reinforces even to ourselves, like, oh, I really desire this
.
Yes, I really want to show upfor the podcast.
(28:09):
Yes, I really want to drop.
I really want to share, notjust of my life, but talk about
desire and a life led by desire.
And what does that look like ona day-to-day basis?
And what better way to showthan to show and tell, like to
show how it shows, how desireshows up in our lives, how we
work through the pieces whenthings are kind of I guess today
(28:32):
would be falling apart and howdo we create that space for
ourselves so that we can do thesmallest next step when we are
falling off?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
I love this part of the conversation we're talking
about how do you get back ontrack, no-transcript about what
(29:16):
is the next best step, and Ireally appreciate this idea of I
don't want to just jam pack myschedule and just go back to how
it's always been because yourcapacity isn't the same, and
just go back to how it's alwaysbeen because your capacity isn't
the same and I would say formyself, for me, a next best step
(29:36):
, which was today, since we'redoing behind the scenes.
I just got to the mountains inColorado.
I'm at a pretty high altitude.
I was a little nervous about it.
I had to go over this BerthoudPass, which was super high and
just had some fear around that,which I moved through and it was
absolutely beautiful.
But I've been moving and thehigh altitude really affected my
body.
(29:56):
And the way I needed to show upin order to get to this moment
here was getting on this callwith Catherine like three hours
ago and having radical honesty.
It's like where am I right now?
I cannot bypass that ever.
I just can't bypass it and justact like everything's okay or
(30:18):
just show up to record foranything.
I need to be present with whatis and that looks different,
different times.
In this case, since we're in aproject together, being honest
with Catherine and sharing whereI am and just you know, in full
transparency, just letting sometears come through, crying,
(30:40):
sharing some fears and justmoving through it and being
being present, I think it's areally loving act to do that.
Those are the next steps ofgetting back on track, Because
you don't just jump back on thetrain.
You know, I think it's.
(31:01):
It's a false idea that you justget, you're just better, you
just you're just back on track.
No, there's a transition period, because we have bodies and we
have emotions and they want tobe tended to and when you tend
to them, it's actually muchfaster than trying to avoid or
resist.
The resistance is the worst.
(31:23):
The resistance or thepretending that everything's
okay and everything's back ontrack and I could do everything.
No, you can't.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
We can pretend.
Yeah, we can pretend.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
We can pretend or override override your body,
Like I remember when I wasteaching, I would have like
maybe a week and a half or twoweeks off for Christmas holiday.
I would come back after newyear and that wasn't a regular
work day for me.
I mean it was in the sense ofoh, the school day is happening,
I'm a teacher, I have to showup.
But I made it really good formyself Even before I knew about
(32:02):
all of this that we're talkingabout.
I made it really good formyself and I kept it really easy
and I didn't make any big plansthat first week back, because I
knew that after a week and ahalf of holiday and eating
chocolate and playing with mykids, that I needed a transition
period to get myself back ontrack.
And I created a lot of space, alot of space for myself.
(32:23):
Space is grace.
That was very corny, but that'strue.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
No space, I think is not just great, but helpful.
I want to say like space isreally helpful.
I like where we're going here.
You, Brenda, spoke about theexpansion we had around
Christmas.
I had not thought about that,but it makes complete sense now
that you bring it forth.
(32:49):
Yes, we did have a hugeexpansion.
I remember being super excitedand being like, oh yes, we're
going to drop these two duringthis week and it felt like no
big deal.
Well, haha, jokes on me.
Now.
Week and it felt like no bigdeal.
Well, haha, joke's on me.
Now I can see that it's a bigdeal.
Brenda was like, I think thisis an expansion for us.
I was like, oh, it's going tobe great.
Now I'm like, oh, I reallydidn't.
(33:14):
I don't think I gave that actthe gravity that it deserved,
potentially because contractionnaturally follows an expansion.
That's sort of like universallaw.
And yes, if we're looking atexpansion and contraction,
(33:37):
another way of describing it istransition time, and space is
really needed in that becauseessentially, what happens?
I'm thinking of a differentepisode, that toolbox episode
that we dropped, which was thehavingness expander.
But whenever you have more,give more, stretch, more right.
But whenever you have more,give more, stretch, more right.
(33:58):
There's like a natural snapback in and eventually there's a
sort of settling where it's alittle bit bigger, we have more
capacity, and I'm sure thatcomes even with more systems or
other things in place.
But I had not really thoughtabout this being part of the
(34:20):
overall contraction, becauseit's really not convenient to
think of that If every time wehad an expansion or we thought
we were on the brink ofexpansion, we thought about the
contraction, we would neverstretch, it just would not, at
least for me.
I'd be too afraid.
I'm like no, I don't know whatcomes after this, but it's okay,
(34:41):
it passes.
It doesn't last forever.
This too shall pass.
I am sort of on the mend.
Yes, I didn't jump right backin, even though I had
conflicting desires, desiresOverall.
(35:04):
I can't say that I desire forspace, but I do desire for
smoothness, Like I want thingsto feel I think you said free
flowing earlier, Brenda, I don'tknow if it's necessarily I want
it to feel free flowing, but Iwant to feel grounded, I want to
feel in my element, in mygenius, and that things are just
sort of moving at a pace that Ican really go with.
(35:27):
Just yesterday, by three, fouro'clock I had had a full day and
I hit my wall.
Normally I'm hitting my wallaround five or six.
Three or four is really early,but it makes sense if,
ultimately, we're in acontracted space.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
It does, it makes a lot of sense and it's really
important to honor your capacity.
I think we've both done areally good job with that,
individually and together withour podcast.
We've done a really good job ofhonoring the contraction.
And I think that if we go backto living a life led by desire
and wanting more and wanting toexpand and we do want to expand
(36:05):
this podcast we want morelisteners, we want more great
guests, we want to expand ourown capacity to have it.
It really I think that you doknow that there is a contraction
that happens.
It's good to be aware of thatand, like you said, you don't
want to be like, oh no, I'mgoing to expand and then I'm
going to contract.
But I think in my ambientattention, it's great to know oh
(36:28):
, I'm in an expansion, somethinghuge is happening and there
might be a contractionafterwards.
Now you don't need to give thatany attention, you don't need
to worry about it or go on theride of it, but it really is
nice to have it in your ambientattention and say, oh, this is
an expansion, so that when thecontraction happens and it might
(36:49):
be really small, it might besuper small, it doesn't have to
be small.
Big.
This was a big one.
For us, this was a really bigcontraction and I think it's
really great to notice that itwas a contraction and we have a
couple of great episodes on that, like the Havingness Expander
(37:09):
episode 69.
And we talk about that in 68,.
Also, how to create lastingchange, because we're talking
about a life led by desire,means that you want more, and
that's okay to want more.
Just because you have yourdesire doesn't mean that you're
done desiring things.
It's not greedy to want more Ifthere's something deep in your
(37:34):
soul that's running through yourbody that's saying I got
married, oh, and now I wantchildren.
Whatever the thing is for you,it's good to want more.
We're supposed to have anenjoyable, full life with our
creativity and our life forcerunning through us.
That is why we're here on thisplanet.
(37:55):
So in order to do that, we needto be able to build our capacity
for more, and that takes time,and part of that is noticing
that after an expansion, thereis often a contraction and you
don't need to make a problem.
This is a really big point thatI want to say, and this came up
this morning when I was cryingto Catherine.
(38:16):
I was saying I could seeobjectively.
I'm having a reaction to highaltitude.
Maybe I'm tired because we'vebeen traveling, but there's
really no problem.
I don't need to go on the rideof any problem.
I just can see it for what itis, stay neutral with it and
take the next best steps withwhatever I'm doing in my life,
(38:39):
love.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
This I'm thinking of.
We're talking about expansionand contraction, and you gave
the example of what you weretalking about earlier today when
we were chatting.
I think anything that we giveairtime to sort of diminishes
the charge, because when we'renot sharing about it, it's only
(39:00):
happening in our own universe,in our own awareness, and it can
feel so big.
It's like this huge umbrellathat can just bring us down.
So, ultimately, what I'm tryingto share is sometimes our mind
(39:22):
will play tricks on us and makesomething really big, whether
it's about the contraction orthe expansion, or fear, shame,
guilt.
But if we can just stayconnected, ideally, with other
and if that's not available toyou, then in a journal, stay
connected with yourself, air itout, write it down.
(39:45):
Don't have it be somethingthat's looming over you.
It doesn't have to be perfect.
Living a life led by desiredoes not have to be perfect.
We don't have to booby trap ourlife to make sure that things
don't go wrong, because here'sthe secret.
Have to booby trap our life tomake sure that things don't go
wrong, because here's the secretit will go wrong, things will
happen, and it's not about howmany times you go down, it's
(40:08):
about how many times you comeback up and that you just keep
on going because nothing isbetter than a life well-lived.
Nothing is better than a lifelived.
Let's all just stay in the gameto the best of our ability.
Nothing is better than a lifelived Like.
Let's all just stay in the gameto the best of our ability.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Nothing is better than a life well lived.
I love that.
I mean, that's why we'refollowing desire in the first
place, right, because we want alife that we are really excited
about, and that means giving upthe creature comforts of safety
and security.
Sometimes you don't have to,right, I guess you give up,
(40:44):
knowing for certain, becauseyou're not forcing it and making
it happen.
And so I am with you on a lifewell-lived.
We're talking about beingpresent and honest with whoever,
or yourself.
I'm noticing that we that'swhat this episode is, that's
what this entire episode is.
Let's be honest with ouraudience and let's record on the
(41:07):
actual, real things that we'vebeen going through in the last
month and really share, from aplace of authenticity and truth
and messiness and uncertainty.
What's happening behind thescenes.
And even with all of that, ourcommitment is here.
We are here for ourselves, foreach other, for our listeners,
(41:34):
for the podcast, and that'ssomething to really be proud of.
Thank you for being with us, forsticking with us.
We would love to hear what messhappened for you in January it
feels like a lot of people hadthat happening and how did you
stay present with it, how didyou stay committed and what are
your takeaways from this episode?
(41:55):
And may we all have a life welllived.
Amen and thank you for beingwith us today.
Thank you for joining us on theDesire is Medicine podcast.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Desire invites us to be honest, loving and deeply
intimate with ourselves andothers.
You can find our handles in theshow notes.
We'd love to hear from you.
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