March 5, 2025 • 30 mins
Ever wonder why receiving feedback (aka honesty) can feel horrendous?
In this conversation, we unravel the art of receptivity in relationships, revealing how to transform unwelcome criticism into opportunities for growth.
Join us as we share our personal stories and practical tips for handling criticism, feedback and honesty with grace and openness. Brenda's reflections on parenting illuminate the power of non-reactivity in maintaining genuine connections, providing a heartfelt guide to becoming approachable and sustaining deep relationships.
While we explored the dynamics of receiving feedback gracefully, this episode emphasizes the importance of approaching criticism/honesty with openness and love. By cultivating a safe space for honesty, we deepen our relationships and foster growth.
Highlights of this Episode:
• Disentangling identity from criticism
• Recognizing when we have defensive reactions
• Evaluating the source of feedback
• Becoming a safe space for honesty
• The value of consent in giving feedback
• Navigating vulnerability in conversations
• Embracing the light and dark in relationships
• Building trust through honest dialogue
• The importance of mutual understanding
If something really resonated with you, please, please, please, let us know. We love hearing from you. We love receiving your messages and your DMs. If you feel so called, please leave a review on Apple. Thanks so much, until next time.
How did you like this episode? Tell us everything, we'd love to hear from you.
If you'd like to learn more about 1:1 or group coaching with Brenda or Catherine message them and book a Sales Call to learn more.
Email:
desireasmedicine@gmail.com
goddessbrenda24@gmail.com
catherine@catherinenavarro.com
Instagram:
@desireasmedicinepodcast
@Brenda_Fredericks
@CoachCatherineN
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Desire is Medicine.
We are two very different womenliving a life led by desire,
inviting you into our world.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm Brenda.
I'm a devoted practitioner tobeing my fully expressed true
self in my daily life.
Motherhood relationships and mybusiness Desire has taken me on
quite a ride and every day Ipractice listening to and
following the voice within.
I'm a middle school teacherturned coach and guide of the
feminine.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the
truest and hopefully thehighest version of me.
I don't have children, I'venever been married.
I've spent equal parts of mylife in corporate as in some
down and low shady spaces.
I was the epitome of tired andwired and my path led me to
explore desire.
I'm a coach, guide, energyworker and a forever student.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Even after decades of inner work, we are humble
beginners on the mat, stillexploring, always curious.
We believe that listening toand following the nudge of
desire is a deep spiritualpractice that helps us grow.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
On the Desires Medicine podcast.
We talk to each other, weinterview people we know and
love about the practice ofdesire, bringing in a very
important piece that is oftenoverlooked being responsible for
our desire.
Hello, friends, family, welcomeback to another episode of the
(01:33):
Desire as Medicine podcast.
I am here with the lovelyco-host, my lovely co-host
Brenda.
We're super psyched, as always,to bring some, I guess,
hopefully some juice to yourlife today, because we're
talking about reception.
We're talking about how to be afantastic person to give to.
(01:58):
We're talking about how can wereceive something with love and
wait for it, drum roll.
We're talking about how do wedo those things well while
receiving things we don't like.
And I'm not talking aboutsomebody gave you a shirt and
(02:20):
it's not your size.
I'm talking about whensomeone's giving you feedback
you either potentially didn'task for or feedback you don't
like, or worse, someone'sdelivering a criticism.
So that can be choppy,dangerous waters.
(02:42):
Here it comes.
Someone has an opinion.
Uh-oh, they don't like me.
We have fears.
Now am I going to be safe?
Am I somehow not going to beliked by my friend or colleague?
All these things come up for us.
The first thing we want to do isbe absurd and get defensive.
I'm only kidding.
I don't want to call peoplenames, I don't want to say being
(03:04):
absurd, but it is sort of likehere's this person telling us
something and I have theopportunity of being the person
that people can give me theirtruth.
I want to be that person.
I always want to be the personwhere people know that, no
(03:27):
matter what is happening, theycan come to me, that it's safe,
that I'm not going to kill them,chop them down, cut their legs
off, be really mean back, thatI'm able to just receive what
they're giving me.
And how do I do that?
Well, the first step is to puta hold on the defensiveness and
(03:53):
remind myself I'm not gettingarrested.
I don't need to call myattorney or forever hold my
peace.
I am just receiving feedback.
If it's at work, maybe I'mgetting a quarterly review.
If it's with a friend, maybe myfriend is saying hey, this
thing that you did I don'treally like.
(04:16):
And as the receiver, I have alot of decisions to make.
First decision is am I going tobe defensive?
Am I going to defend myself?
Is it necessary for me todefend myself?
Maybe I don't know.
I may not be getting arrested,but maybe I'm getting fired.
Maybe, if I'm getting fired,this is the time I want to say
my piece, my part.
(04:37):
But what if it's not that dire?
What if it's just someone iscritiquing something or offering
me feedback on one of myactions or behaviors?
I get to not be defensive.
How do I do that?
Well, the first step is tounderstand that this feedback is
(04:58):
not about me, my inherent value, it's not about my identity.
Inherent value, it's not aboutmy identity, it's just their
perception.
I get to also consider thesource.
Do I value this person'sopinion in this way about this
thing?
Is what they are telling meabout myself?
(05:20):
Is it useful?
Is it something that I canchange?
Or are you telling me I'm tootall, too short?
Well, I mean, how does thathelp me?
How does this information helpme?
It only helps me if I'm goingto like on a roller coaster and
I'm not tall enough, or I'm tootall and I'm going to hit myself
somewhere.
But other than thosecircumstances, that feedback is
(05:43):
not helpful.
So these are all things that weneed to think about and the
reason why we're bringing it toyou today.
Brenda and I were talking abouthow hard it is to be someone
that people can be honest with.
Brenda.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
That's such a beautiful frame.
How can you be someone whosomeone can come to and just be
honest with?
I know, as a parent, that'sbeen a really important piece
for me.
How can I be a parent who mykids this was something I
learned when they were teenagerswho they can come to me with
(06:22):
anything, no matter what, andI'm just going to receive them
and handle it?
And in order to do that, I needto really not be reactive.
I mean, that's a really bigpiece because you know, when
something comes in that soundsscary or maybe touches on our
(06:43):
own wound in some way, we getreactive and then you're not
even really dealing with theperson in front of you anymore.
You're just in your own littlesphere with you and your wound.
It's just you and your woundhaving an experience getting
reactive.
So that's something really toaspire to like to be the person
(07:08):
who people can come to you andjust tell you the truth, like
that's how we have deeprelationships.
The first thing I'm going tonotice if a criticism comes in
is how am I feeling?
How do I feel?
Just check in with my body.
This is a great place to pauseand go slow, because this is a
place where we want to speed up.
And here's a little trickpeople, if you feel the need to
(07:31):
speed up, that's a surefire signthat you need to slow down.
So I'm going to notice how Ifeel, and do I feel hit in any
way?
Did this hurt me?
Did I take it personally?
That, to me, is the first thing.
And then sitting with it, and Ithink it's really important to
(07:53):
ask myself, as a person whowants to grow and evolve is
there a truth to this?
Is there truth in this comment?
Is there truth to this?
Is there truth in this comment?
I think that's the mostvulnerable thing that we can say
and ask ourselves.
Maybe it's not revealed in thatmoment and maybe you're not
(08:14):
going to look at it in thatmoment, but that's the deeper
thing that I would recommendsitting with later that day or
when you have space.
Is there truth in this and isthere truth in this?
And can I receive that?
Or are you just somebody whowants to deflect it and move on
(08:35):
with your life?
Well, you're probably notlistening to this podcast, if
that's true, if that's for you,but that is a really important
piece, because when we look atprioritizing our growth over our
comfort.
Well then, we're going to haveto see things about ourselves
(08:55):
that we might not like, andsometimes those do come in the
form of criticism from otherpeople.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yes, how else would we know that's the other piece
If the people who are near usand around us are technically
like our external barriers Iwant to call it or boundaries,
or external mirrors.
(09:22):
That's the thing.
The people around us are ourexternal mirrors.
If we get to see ourselves inthose around us and people
around us are saying, hey, thisaction you did is not to my
liking, this behavior you have,well, I don't really like that.
I get to say, ouch, thank youfor sharing that.
(09:47):
That was hard to hear.
It may have been hard to shareand I appreciate you, but if I
allow myself to have a full onmeltdown reaction and make it so
(10:07):
uncomfortable for this personto be with, well, I'm chipping
away at the mirrors that reflectback to me who I am.
I'm sort of chipping away at myown checks and balances because
I'm having it be that peoplecan't tell me the truth, which
(10:29):
is unfortunate.
I always want to be the kind ofperson that somebody can tell
me the truth.
I want to appreciate thisperson's perspective,
perspective.
I get to decide is this useful?
Is this helpful?
Do I fully respect the source?
(10:49):
I can decide that, but Iactually want that funnel, that
pathway, that highway, thehighway of feedback.
I want that one fully open forme, because having it closed
(11:11):
would suck.
Honestly, it just would suck forme.
I'm so curious why it wouldsuck for you.
Could you say more?
Because I'm not perfect and forme life is like 50-50.
50% yum, 50% yuck.
Which means I have to beengaging in shit that people
(11:35):
don't like.
And if they're not telling meabout it, then why are they not
telling me?
Am I not behaving like myselfin front of this person?
Am I somehow contorting Likethere's not going to be anybody
in my life that absolutely loveseverything about me?
It just doesn't make sense.
It's not statistically possibleunless they are interacting
(11:58):
with an idea of me.
So that's why I say it wouldsuck, because it means that
somewhere I am in relationshipwith, I am in relationship to a
degree where I would prefer togo deeper.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Thank you for that.
Yeah, what I'm hearing is thatyou want honest, deep, truthful
connections and so receiving orhearing or being part of quote
negative, we'll just say is partof the deal, Because that's
just how it is.
If we're in reality, it is.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah, it's part of reality.
I have to be ready, willing andable and available for what
pisses somebody off or what theydon't like about me, and be
okay with, potentially, the factthat I may be that way and not
be ready to make changes in thatarena and know that this person
hates that you know this isreminding me of the natural
(12:58):
order of life day and night,good and bad, winter and summer.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
These are universal laws.
We're human, we're not here tojust be in daytime all the time.
It's just not the way the worldworks.
Nature is not built to besunshine all the time, be
(13:25):
sunshine all the time.
And so if we're in rightrelationship with life, then we
are looking at 360 degrees oftruth.
We're looking at and receivingthe wonderful things which are
100% there, and then we're alsolooking at the shadow, the
things we can't see.
Which brings me to relationship.
Like you can reorientrelationship from being this
(13:46):
romantic, sunshiny, fantasy lifewhich I don't know about anyone
else, but that never worked forme.
That was never sustainable.
If we're in relationship withpeople, we are in relationship
with who they fully are, thetruth of this whole person.
Can we be with that and can wesee the parts of ourselves that
(14:09):
we might not like so much andthe people around us that we're
in relationships with.
Like you said, there aremirrors.
Like you said, there aremirrors.
So sometimes I'll say to mypartner I'm like, oh, he's
moving so fast, can you slowdown?
And I'm like, oh, where can Islow down in my life.
Where am I moving too fast?
This happens with the peopleclosest to me all the time.
(14:32):
This happens to me as a motherall the time.
When I see my kids in abehavior or in a pattern, I'm
like, oh my God.
When I see my kids in abehavior or in a pattern, I'm
like, oh my God, this is totallyme and I can shut myself off to
that.
And parents blame their kidsall the time.
Or you can use it as a mirror,as a place where you can grow
(15:02):
and just work on that thinginside of yourself.
Now this takes tremendousamount of willingness to be with
all of the parts of yourself,dropping of ego to see the truth
of who you are, because you'renot all sunshine and rainbows
people.
You have all the other stufftoo, and that's kind of the
beauty of it.
You know that's.
We're here as a spiritual beingto have a human experience and
(15:28):
we're not perfect, so can we bewith that?
And this other really importantpiece that I want to say is
buy-in.
Buy-in with people that we'rein relationships with.
You can walk around the worldcriticizing everyone.
You're not going to be toopopular.
People aren't going to likethat when you're in relationship
, you can say to someone hey, Ihave a thought about something
(15:52):
that I noticed.
Are you available to hear it?
You don't want to just blurt itout.
Like if you really want to bein connection with someone, then
you would create a time and aspace to have a conversation,
not just walk past them in thehall and drop a bomb and run.
(16:14):
That's not connection.
That's called hot potatoing itand that is one way to give a
criticism, but it's not the mostconnected way.
You have to be willing to holdthe sensation of the discomfort
of sharing it and it isuncomfortable.
I think it's uncomfortable.
It's uncomfortable to receiveand it's uncomfortable to give.
(16:36):
But you can create that Like.
Sometimes we've done an episodeon this on withholds early on
At night.
My partner and I will share.
We have different closeouts forthe day, but sometimes they're
withholds where we're sharingsomething, an honest piece, with
the other person, and so it'slike a container where the
(17:01):
person is bought in.
They're a yes, I'm not justdropping a bomb.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I love your description of consent.
Yeah, you don't want to justdrop grenades everywhere, blow
up relationships.
We definitely.
I agree with you.
There has to be willingnesslike, willingness to not be
liked, willingness to not beperfect, willingness to be human
(17:24):
and willingness to ask forconsent, to ask, you know, to
enroll someone in thisconversation, for buy in, like
you say, and I get that ateither point in time, we can be
on the different side of thecoin.
I get that at either point intime we can be on the different
side of the coin.
One day, maybe we are askingfor consent to offer.
The reflection, Like this is canI share with you something that
(17:48):
I'm noticing, or can I sharewith you something that's
actively happening in ourrelationship that I want us to
address?
Maybe the person says, no, notright now, I actually don't have
the bandwidth for that, but canwe talk on Tuesday at eight,
let's say over the weekend,after we go to such and such
(18:10):
party, after brunch, right,Setting a time and space to
connect on something.
And there will be other timeswhen I am that person, when
someone comes to me and says,hey, can I share with you about,
and maybe I have theavailability to do that, maybe
not.
And then there is the impromptu.
Let's talk about the fight, andin the fight it's hard if we're
(18:33):
activated.
If I'm activated in a fight andsomeone I am in relationship
with, it's almost like theysling something at you, right.
You feel the grenade pop andhit you straight in the back of
the heart.
They say something.
I'm like, it's almost like Iget winded, the breath was
knocked out of me and can Ifight?
(18:55):
Well, Can I say, oh, thank youso much for sharing that and I
need some time to recover fromthat one.
I need to come back.
Or, oh, you just said somethingand I don't feel fully present
to be with what's happeningright now.
Or worse, I get slung at,grenade thrown and I'm like,
(19:23):
uh-oh, grenade thrown, and Ithrow my own grenade and then I
have to clean up the grenadethat I throw right, Because,
well, now we're doing tip fortop and still I want to be in a
relationship that's honest, Eventhough there is this fear and
(19:46):
even though the risk is in theroom when you're having an
honest conversation, that I'mnot going to be liked, that I'm
not seen as perfect, that I dosomething wrong, that I'm way
too human and maybe even thatthere's a rupture in the
relationship.
And even with that, I want tohave honest relationships.
I'm thinking right now of somefriendships where I have been
(20:09):
told by friends I used to be.
A former version of me wasdefinitely very people pleaser
and I would really go out of myway for friends in different
ways, ways where I definitelyabandoned myself.
When that started to change, Ihad friends say to me I don't
like the way you're, whatever X,Y or Z, and I would have to say
(20:34):
I'm sorry, I can't behave thatway anymore.
I'm not willing to be inrelationship with you in that
way anymore.
If that's something you need, Ican't do that anymore, Versus I
can't be in a codependentrelationship with you anymore.
I cannot be your people pleaser, doing everything for you like
(20:56):
your lapdog anymore.
We also have to learn how todeliver right.
I am not going to provide myfeedback, my critique, in a way.
That's where I'm trying to hurtthe other person on name call.
I keep it on my side of thestreet, I say like I am not able
(21:19):
to, or I.
A lot of the conversation isabout I, I, I, I how I feel, how
I can only take the ownershipfor me, so I also want to put
that in there.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah, that's a great skill.
That comes over time, becausewhen you, when you first start
speaking up more or maybe goingthrough a transformation and
you're having more awarenesses,you're like I'm going to say all
these things, it's easy to seein other people all the things
about them and it might not comeout.
(21:51):
So I'm talking about twodifferent things here.
It's like one you could seemore in other people.
And number two you're notskilled at how to say it, but
you do have to go through thatpart of how to speak in a way
that people can actually hearyou, because just delivering a
truth bomb, like a grenade, isnot going to be heard, because
(22:14):
if you're saying something andsomebody immediately gets
defensive and puts their back up, gets defensive and puts their
back up, they didn't hear you.
You hit something in them andnow they can't hear you and now
you're just in a grenade fightor your thing can't be received.
So how you deliver, it actuallymatters.
(22:37):
It really does matter if we'retalking about delivering a
criticism right or feedback, andthis takes practice.
It's like a faucet.
If a faucet's been turned offfor a long time, you turn that
faucet on, the water's going tobe coming out brown for a while
and that brown phase in learningto speak up and speak honestly
(23:00):
and share these things is messy.
It's really messy and you couldsay to people around you hey,
I'm practicing this thing, I'mpracticing being more honest,
I'm practicing sharing more ofwhat's happening inside of me.
It might be a little bit messy.
Can you be here with me and canwe work this out together, like
(23:24):
that's really when you're inrelationship with someone, where
you're really invested, whereyou're practicing these things
together.
These things just don't comeout perfectly from the beginning
.
I know like Catherine makes itlook so easy and it just doesn't
start out that way.
It's a journey to get there.
And it just doesn't start outthat way.
It's a journey to get there.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
It really doesn't start out that way.
I and if I'm giving thatimpression, believe you me.
I remember a common thing Iused to have people say to me
was I know what you're thinking.
Why are you giving me that face?
Like, first of all, get out ofmy head, stop thinking what I'm
thinking.
But that's just a side note,because that's what you had me
(24:08):
think of.
I'm going to go and justreiterate some pieces that you
mentioned, brenda, and just sayyes, how can I be someone that
someone can be honest with?
How can I be someone thatsomeone can be honest with with
and can I be the person wherewe're not then engaging in a
grenade launch, like if, my, if.
(24:29):
Ultimately, I want to engage inhonesty.
It's for connection, it's forrepair, it's for reconciliation,
it's for common ground, it's sothat this connection can get
better, not so that I can winthe argument.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
That's a beautiful piece.
And now that I could feel truthin my body and I could see
where a wound is hit or I'mtaking it personally, or it's my
ego, or I don't want to see it.
Now that I've learned to bewith that in my body, I only
want my relationships to be thatway, and a lot in my romantic
(25:07):
relationship I'll share truthswith my partner that are really
uncomfortable.
I don't really want to sharethese things, but it's an
investment in the relationshipto do so and I hate that so much
Because it's so hard.
It's like I hate it and I loveit.
But sharing the truths insideof me the 360 degrees are
(25:29):
important for me to be inrelationship with him, or else
they end up being withholds.
They're things that I thoughtthat I haven't said, and then
they stink up the room like badcheese left in the corner.
It's going to smell and for meI can feel it when it smells.
(25:52):
Now I'm not saying I share everylittle truth with him.
I don't, because some of themare just for me to work out
inside of myself.
I no longer believe thateverything needs to be shared.
I did believe that at somepoint and that was great
practice.
But that's what I'm talkingabout the hose right with the
water coming out, like I had togo through this period of
practicing saying every littlething on my mind, all the truths
(26:15):
, to actually get to a placewhere I can now be more
discerning and work some thingsout inside of myself.
And it's an investment.
It's actually love.
And he's a yes.
He's like yes, I want to hearthese things.
Yes, I don't always likehearing them, or my ego gets hit
(26:36):
or I feel hurt.
But he's also like please tellme.
We've built that up over time,that trust, and I will also
share with him.
This is hard for me to say, or Ifeel really uncomfortable
saying this, or, ooh, I havesomething I want to share and
(26:57):
I'm a little scared to say it,and that it's vulnerable.
It's really vulnerable to dothat.
It's really vulnerable to shareand I'm a little scared to say
it, and that it's vulnerable.
It's really vulnerable to dothat.
It's really vulnerable to sharethe truth of your heart and
it's also really important to doit because the truth is also.
We can feel it in relationships.
You can feel it when the otherperson isn't saying something to
(27:18):
you is withholding something,you can feel it and it creates
disconnection.
Or if you sugarcoat something,it creates disconnection.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
It's unfortunate, but it's true.
Said differently, when wewithhold or when others withhold
the truth, that's happeningbecause they are either afraid
of our reaction or we are afraidof their reaction.
We create a withhold because weare not being the person that
(27:52):
somebody else can be honest withand vice versa, there's
disconnection.
Normally, whenever you'refeeling disconnection in a
relationship, it is because sometruth is not being told and
then the relationship getsfurther apart, further apart,
further apart, further apart,and there's more distance, more
(28:13):
distance, more distance, and allof a sudden you have a very
casual friendship or casualrelationship.
You don't have the depthanymore, so you might hate it.
It's uncomfortable to be inthese honest conversations, but
ultimately it is an investment.
As Brenda said, it is actuallyextremely loving and it's what
(28:35):
an amazing way to be dedicatedto your relationship, your
friendships, to be that person,to be someone that people can be
honest with, to be non-reactive, to do your best, to be with
the truth.
Not have to be perfect, nothave to always be liked, be
(28:56):
willing to be human, not go andengage in the natural human, not
go and engage in the natural,common, socially accepted
grenade way of fighting, butreally connecting and being
honest and being willing to hearsomeone else's honesty so that
(29:16):
you can have an even more lovingand deeper connection With that
.
I want to say thank you so muchfor listening.
I hope this really landed.
If something really resonatedwith you, please, please, please
, let us know.
We'd love hearing from you.
I love receiving your messagesand your DMs.
If you feel so called, pleaseleave a review on Apple.
(29:40):
Thanks so much, until next time.
Bye for now.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Thank you for joining us on the Desire is Medicine
podcast.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Desire invites us to be honest, loving and deeply
intimate with ourselves andothers.
You can find our handles in theshow notes.
We'd love to hear from you.
Welcome to Desire is Medicine.
We are two very different womenliving a life led by desire,
inviting you into our world.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm Brenda.
I'm a devoted practitioner tobeing my fully expressed true
self in my daily life.
Motherhood relationships and mybusiness Desire has taken me on
quite a ride and every day Ipractice listening to and
following the voice within.
I'm a middle school teacherturned coach and guide of the
feminine.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the
truest and hopefully thehighest version of me.
I don't have children, I'venever been married.
I've spent equal parts of mylife in corporate as in some
down and low shady spaces.
I was the epitome of tired andwired and my path led me to
explore desire.
I'm a coach, guide, energyworker and a forever student.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Even after decades of inner work, we are humble
beginners on the mat, stillexploring, always curious.
We believe that listening toand following the nudge of
desire is a deep spiritualpractice that helps us grow.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
On the Desires Medicine podcast.
We talk to each other, weinterview people we know and
love about the practice ofdesire, bringing in a very
important piece that is oftenoverlooked being responsible for
our desire.
Hello, friends, family, welcomeback to another episode of the
(01:33):
Desire as Medicine podcast.
I am here with the lovelyco-host, my lovely co-host
Brenda.
We're super psyched, as always,to bring some, I guess,
hopefully some juice to yourlife today, because we're
talking about reception.
We're talking about how to be afantastic person to give to.
(01:58):
We're talking about how can wereceive something with love and
wait for it, drum roll.
We're talking about how do wedo those things well while
receiving things we don't like.
And I'm not talking aboutsomebody gave you a shirt and
(02:20):
it's not your size.
I'm talking about whensomeone's giving you feedback
you either potentially didn'task for or feedback you don't
like, or worse, someone'sdelivering a criticism.
So that can be choppy,dangerous waters.
(02:42):
Here it comes.
Someone has an opinion.
Uh-oh, they don't like me.
We have fears.
Now am I going to be safe?
Am I somehow not going to beliked by my friend or colleague?
All these things come up for us.
The first thing we want to do isbe absurd and get defensive.
I'm only kidding.
I don't want to call peoplenames, I don't want to say being
(03:04):
absurd, but it is sort of likehere's this person telling us
something and I have theopportunity of being the person
that people can give me theirtruth.
I want to be that person.
I always want to be the personwhere people know that, no
(03:27):
matter what is happening, theycan come to me, that it's safe,
that I'm not going to kill them,chop them down, cut their legs
off, be really mean back, thatI'm able to just receive what
they're giving me.
And how do I do that?
Well, the first step is to puta hold on the defensiveness and
(03:53):
remind myself I'm not gettingarrested.
I don't need to call myattorney or forever hold my
peace.
I am just receiving feedback.
If it's at work, maybe I'mgetting a quarterly review.
If it's with a friend, maybe myfriend is saying hey, this
thing that you did I don'treally like.
(04:16):
And as the receiver, I have alot of decisions to make.
First decision is am I going tobe defensive?
Am I going to defend myself?
Is it necessary for me todefend myself?
Maybe I don't know.
I may not be getting arrested,but maybe I'm getting fired.
Maybe, if I'm getting fired,this is the time I want to say
my piece, my part.
(04:37):
But what if it's not that dire?
What if it's just someone iscritiquing something or offering
me feedback on one of myactions or behaviors?
I get to not be defensive.
How do I do that?
Well, the first step is tounderstand that this feedback is
(04:58):
not about me, my inherent value, it's not about my identity.
Inherent value, it's not aboutmy identity, it's just their
perception.
I get to also consider thesource.
Do I value this person'sopinion in this way about this
thing?
Is what they are telling meabout myself?
(05:20):
Is it useful?
Is it something that I canchange?
Or are you telling me I'm tootall, too short?
Well, I mean, how does thathelp me?
How does this information helpme?
It only helps me if I'm goingto like on a roller coaster and
I'm not tall enough, or I'm tootall and I'm going to hit myself
somewhere.
But other than thosecircumstances, that feedback is
(05:43):
not helpful.
So these are all things that weneed to think about and the
reason why we're bringing it toyou today.
Brenda and I were talking abouthow hard it is to be someone
that people can be honest with.
Brenda.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
That's such a beautiful frame.
How can you be someone whosomeone can come to and just be
honest with?
I know, as a parent, that'sbeen a really important piece
for me.
How can I be a parent who mykids this was something I
learned when they were teenagerswho they can come to me with
(06:22):
anything, no matter what, andI'm just going to receive them
and handle it?
And in order to do that, I needto really not be reactive.
I mean, that's a really bigpiece because you know, when
something comes in that soundsscary or maybe touches on our
(06:43):
own wound in some way, we getreactive and then you're not
even really dealing with theperson in front of you anymore.
You're just in your own littlesphere with you and your wound.
It's just you and your woundhaving an experience getting
reactive.
So that's something really toaspire to like to be the person
(07:08):
who people can come to you andjust tell you the truth, like
that's how we have deeprelationships.
The first thing I'm going tonotice if a criticism comes in
is how am I feeling?
How do I feel?
Just check in with my body.
This is a great place to pauseand go slow, because this is a
place where we want to speed up.
And here's a little trickpeople, if you feel the need to
(07:31):
speed up, that's a surefire signthat you need to slow down.
So I'm going to notice how Ifeel, and do I feel hit in any
way?
Did this hurt me?
Did I take it personally?
That, to me, is the first thing.
And then sitting with it, and Ithink it's really important to
(07:53):
ask myself, as a person whowants to grow and evolve is
there a truth to this?
Is there truth in this comment?
Is there truth to this?
Is there truth in this comment?
I think that's the mostvulnerable thing that we can say
and ask ourselves.
Maybe it's not revealed in thatmoment and maybe you're not
(08:14):
going to look at it in thatmoment, but that's the deeper
thing that I would recommendsitting with later that day or
when you have space.
Is there truth in this and isthere truth in this?
And can I receive that?
Or are you just somebody whowants to deflect it and move on
(08:35):
with your life?
Well, you're probably notlistening to this podcast, if
that's true, if that's for you,but that is a really important
piece, because when we look atprioritizing our growth over our
comfort.
Well then, we're going to haveto see things about ourselves
(08:55):
that we might not like, andsometimes those do come in the
form of criticism from otherpeople.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yes, how else would we know that's the other piece
If the people who are near usand around us are technically
like our external barriers Iwant to call it or boundaries,
or external mirrors.
(09:22):
That's the thing.
The people around us are ourexternal mirrors.
If we get to see ourselves inthose around us and people
around us are saying, hey, thisaction you did is not to my
liking, this behavior you have,well, I don't really like that.
I get to say, ouch, thank youfor sharing that.
(09:47):
That was hard to hear.
It may have been hard to shareand I appreciate you, but if I
allow myself to have a full onmeltdown reaction and make it so
(10:07):
uncomfortable for this personto be with, well, I'm chipping
away at the mirrors that reflectback to me who I am.
I'm sort of chipping away at myown checks and balances because
I'm having it be that peoplecan't tell me the truth, which
(10:29):
is unfortunate.
I always want to be the kind ofperson that somebody can tell
me the truth.
I want to appreciate thisperson's perspective,
perspective.
I get to decide is this useful?
Is this helpful?
Do I fully respect the source?
(10:49):
I can decide that, but Iactually want that funnel, that
pathway, that highway, thehighway of feedback.
I want that one fully open forme, because having it closed
(11:11):
would suck.
Honestly, it just would suck forme.
I'm so curious why it wouldsuck for you.
Could you say more?
Because I'm not perfect and forme life is like 50-50.
50% yum, 50% yuck.
Which means I have to beengaging in shit that people
(11:35):
don't like.
And if they're not telling meabout it, then why are they not
telling me?
Am I not behaving like myselfin front of this person?
Am I somehow contorting Likethere's not going to be anybody
in my life that absolutely loveseverything about me?
It just doesn't make sense.
It's not statistically possibleunless they are interacting
(11:58):
with an idea of me.
So that's why I say it wouldsuck, because it means that
somewhere I am in relationshipwith, I am in relationship to a
degree where I would prefer togo deeper.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Thank you for that.
Yeah, what I'm hearing is thatyou want honest, deep, truthful
connections and so receiving orhearing or being part of quote
negative, we'll just say is partof the deal, Because that's
just how it is.
If we're in reality, it is.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah, it's part of reality.
I have to be ready, willing andable and available for what
pisses somebody off or what theydon't like about me, and be
okay with, potentially, the factthat I may be that way and not
be ready to make changes in thatarena and know that this person
hates that you know this isreminding me of the natural
(12:58):
order of life day and night,good and bad, winter and summer.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
These are universal laws.
We're human, we're not here tojust be in daytime all the time.
It's just not the way the worldworks.
Nature is not built to besunshine all the time, be
(13:25):
sunshine all the time.
And so if we're in rightrelationship with life, then we
are looking at 360 degrees oftruth.
We're looking at and receivingthe wonderful things which are
100% there, and then we're alsolooking at the shadow, the
things we can't see.
Which brings me to relationship.
Like you can reorientrelationship from being this
(13:46):
romantic, sunshiny, fantasy lifewhich I don't know about anyone
else, but that never worked forme.
That was never sustainable.
If we're in relationship withpeople, we are in relationship
with who they fully are, thetruth of this whole person.
Can we be with that and can wesee the parts of ourselves that
(14:09):
we might not like so much andthe people around us that we're
in relationships with.
Like you said, there aremirrors.
Like you said, there aremirrors.
So sometimes I'll say to mypartner I'm like, oh, he's
moving so fast, can you slowdown?
And I'm like, oh, where can Islow down in my life.
Where am I moving too fast?
This happens with the peopleclosest to me all the time.
(14:32):
This happens to me as a motherall the time.
When I see my kids in abehavior or in a pattern, I'm
like, oh my God.
When I see my kids in abehavior or in a pattern, I'm
like, oh my God, this is totallyme and I can shut myself off to
that.
And parents blame their kidsall the time.
Or you can use it as a mirror,as a place where you can grow
(15:02):
and just work on that thinginside of yourself.
Now this takes tremendousamount of willingness to be with
all of the parts of yourself,dropping of ego to see the truth
of who you are, because you'renot all sunshine and rainbows
people.
You have all the other stufftoo, and that's kind of the
beauty of it.
You know that's.
We're here as a spiritual beingto have a human experience and
(15:28):
we're not perfect, so can we bewith that?
And this other really importantpiece that I want to say is
buy-in.
Buy-in with people that we'rein relationships with.
You can walk around the worldcriticizing everyone.
You're not going to be toopopular.
People aren't going to likethat when you're in relationship
, you can say to someone hey, Ihave a thought about something
(15:52):
that I noticed.
Are you available to hear it?
You don't want to just blurt itout.
Like if you really want to bein connection with someone, then
you would create a time and aspace to have a conversation,
not just walk past them in thehall and drop a bomb and run.
(16:14):
That's not connection.
That's called hot potatoing itand that is one way to give a
criticism, but it's not the mostconnected way.
You have to be willing to holdthe sensation of the discomfort
of sharing it and it isuncomfortable.
I think it's uncomfortable.
It's uncomfortable to receiveand it's uncomfortable to give.
(16:36):
But you can create that Like.
Sometimes we've done an episodeon this on withholds early on
At night.
My partner and I will share.
We have different closeouts forthe day, but sometimes they're
withholds where we're sharingsomething, an honest piece, with
the other person, and so it'slike a container where the
(17:01):
person is bought in.
They're a yes, I'm not justdropping a bomb.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I love your description of consent.
Yeah, you don't want to justdrop grenades everywhere, blow
up relationships.
We definitely.
I agree with you.
There has to be willingnesslike, willingness to not be
liked, willingness to not beperfect, willingness to be human
(17:24):
and willingness to ask forconsent, to ask, you know, to
enroll someone in thisconversation, for buy in, like
you say, and I get that ateither point in time, we can be
on the different side of thecoin.
I get that at either point intime we can be on the different
side of the coin.
One day, maybe we are askingfor consent to offer.
The reflection, Like this is canI share with you something that
(17:48):
I'm noticing, or can I sharewith you something that's
actively happening in ourrelationship that I want us to
address?
Maybe the person says, no, notright now, I actually don't have
the bandwidth for that, but canwe talk on Tuesday at eight,
let's say over the weekend,after we go to such and such
(18:10):
party, after brunch, right,Setting a time and space to
connect on something.
And there will be other timeswhen I am that person, when
someone comes to me and says,hey, can I share with you about,
and maybe I have theavailability to do that, maybe
not.
And then there is the impromptu.
Let's talk about the fight, andin the fight it's hard if we're
(18:33):
activated.
If I'm activated in a fight andsomeone I am in relationship
with, it's almost like theysling something at you, right.
You feel the grenade pop andhit you straight in the back of
the heart.
They say something.
I'm like, it's almost like Iget winded, the breath was
knocked out of me and can Ifight?
(18:55):
Well, Can I say, oh, thank youso much for sharing that and I
need some time to recover fromthat one.
I need to come back.
Or, oh, you just said somethingand I don't feel fully present
to be with what's happeningright now.
Or worse, I get slung at,grenade thrown and I'm like,
(19:23):
uh-oh, grenade thrown, and Ithrow my own grenade and then I
have to clean up the grenadethat I throw right, Because,
well, now we're doing tip fortop and still I want to be in a
relationship that's honest, Eventhough there is this fear and
(19:46):
even though the risk is in theroom when you're having an
honest conversation, that I'mnot going to be liked, that I'm
not seen as perfect, that I dosomething wrong, that I'm way
too human and maybe even thatthere's a rupture in the
relationship.
And even with that, I want tohave honest relationships.
I'm thinking right now of somefriendships where I have been
(20:09):
told by friends I used to be.
A former version of me wasdefinitely very people pleaser
and I would really go out of myway for friends in different
ways, ways where I definitelyabandoned myself.
When that started to change, Ihad friends say to me I don't
like the way you're, whatever X,Y or Z, and I would have to say
(20:34):
I'm sorry, I can't behave thatway anymore.
I'm not willing to be inrelationship with you in that
way anymore.
If that's something you need, Ican't do that anymore, Versus I
can't be in a codependentrelationship with you anymore.
I cannot be your people pleaser, doing everything for you like
(20:56):
your lapdog anymore.
We also have to learn how todeliver right.
I am not going to provide myfeedback, my critique, in a way.
That's where I'm trying to hurtthe other person on name call.
I keep it on my side of thestreet, I say like I am not able
(21:19):
to, or I.
A lot of the conversation isabout I, I, I, I how I feel, how
I can only take the ownershipfor me, so I also want to put
that in there.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah, that's a great skill.
That comes over time, becausewhen you, when you first start
speaking up more or maybe goingthrough a transformation and
you're having more awarenesses,you're like I'm going to say all
these things, it's easy to seein other people all the things
about them and it might not comeout.
(21:51):
So I'm talking about twodifferent things here.
It's like one you could seemore in other people.
And number two you're notskilled at how to say it, but
you do have to go through thatpart of how to speak in a way
that people can actually hearyou, because just delivering a
truth bomb, like a grenade, isnot going to be heard, because
(22:14):
if you're saying something andsomebody immediately gets
defensive and puts their back up, gets defensive and puts their
back up, they didn't hear you.
You hit something in them andnow they can't hear you and now
you're just in a grenade fightor your thing can't be received.
So how you deliver, it actuallymatters.
(22:37):
It really does matter if we'retalking about delivering a
criticism right or feedback, andthis takes practice.
It's like a faucet.
If a faucet's been turned offfor a long time, you turn that
faucet on, the water's going tobe coming out brown for a while
and that brown phase in learningto speak up and speak honestly
(23:00):
and share these things is messy.
It's really messy and you couldsay to people around you hey,
I'm practicing this thing, I'mpracticing being more honest,
I'm practicing sharing more ofwhat's happening inside of me.
It might be a little bit messy.
Can you be here with me and canwe work this out together, like
(23:24):
that's really when you're inrelationship with someone, where
you're really invested, whereyou're practicing these things
together.
These things just don't comeout perfectly from the beginning
.
I know like Catherine makes itlook so easy and it just doesn't
start out that way.
It's a journey to get there.
And it just doesn't start outthat way.
It's a journey to get there.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
It really doesn't start out that way.
I and if I'm giving thatimpression, believe you me.
I remember a common thing Iused to have people say to me
was I know what you're thinking.
Why are you giving me that face?
Like, first of all, get out ofmy head, stop thinking what I'm
thinking.
But that's just a side note,because that's what you had me
(24:08):
think of.
I'm going to go and justreiterate some pieces that you
mentioned, brenda, and just sayyes, how can I be someone that
someone can be honest with?
How can I be someone thatsomeone can be honest with with
and can I be the person wherewe're not then engaging in a
grenade launch, like if, my, if.
(24:29):
Ultimately, I want to engage inhonesty.
It's for connection, it's forrepair, it's for reconciliation,
it's for common ground, it's sothat this connection can get
better, not so that I can winthe argument.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
That's a beautiful piece.
And now that I could feel truthin my body and I could see
where a wound is hit or I'mtaking it personally, or it's my
ego, or I don't want to see it.
Now that I've learned to bewith that in my body, I only
want my relationships to be thatway, and a lot in my romantic
(25:07):
relationship I'll share truthswith my partner that are really
uncomfortable.
I don't really want to sharethese things, but it's an
investment in the relationshipto do so and I hate that so much
Because it's so hard.
It's like I hate it and I loveit.
But sharing the truths insideof me the 360 degrees are
(25:29):
important for me to be inrelationship with him, or else
they end up being withholds.
They're things that I thoughtthat I haven't said, and then
they stink up the room like badcheese left in the corner.
It's going to smell and for meI can feel it when it smells.
(25:52):
Now I'm not saying I share everylittle truth with him.
I don't, because some of themare just for me to work out
inside of myself.
I no longer believe thateverything needs to be shared.
I did believe that at somepoint and that was great
practice.
But that's what I'm talkingabout the hose right with the
water coming out, like I had togo through this period of
practicing saying every littlething on my mind, all the truths
(26:15):
, to actually get to a placewhere I can now be more
discerning and work some thingsout inside of myself.
And it's an investment.
It's actually love.
And he's a yes.
He's like yes, I want to hearthese things.
Yes, I don't always likehearing them, or my ego gets hit
(26:36):
or I feel hurt.
But he's also like please tellme.
We've built that up over time,that trust, and I will also
share with him.
This is hard for me to say, or Ifeel really uncomfortable
saying this, or, ooh, I havesomething I want to share and
(26:57):
I'm a little scared to say it,and that it's vulnerable.
It's really vulnerable to dothat.
It's really vulnerable to shareand I'm a little scared to say
it, and that it's vulnerable.
It's really vulnerable to dothat.
It's really vulnerable to sharethe truth of your heart and
it's also really important to doit because the truth is also.
We can feel it in relationships.
You can feel it when the otherperson isn't saying something to
(27:18):
you is withholding something,you can feel it and it creates
disconnection.
Or if you sugarcoat something,it creates disconnection.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
It's unfortunate, but it's true.
Said differently, when wewithhold or when others withhold
the truth, that's happeningbecause they are either afraid
of our reaction or we are afraidof their reaction.
We create a withhold because weare not being the person that
(27:52):
somebody else can be honest withand vice versa, there's
disconnection.
Normally, whenever you'refeeling disconnection in a
relationship, it is because sometruth is not being told and
then the relationship getsfurther apart, further apart,
further apart, further apart,and there's more distance, more
(28:13):
distance, more distance, and allof a sudden you have a very
casual friendship or casualrelationship.
You don't have the depthanymore, so you might hate it.
It's uncomfortable to be inthese honest conversations, but
ultimately it is an investment.
As Brenda said, it is actuallyextremely loving and it's what
(28:35):
an amazing way to be dedicatedto your relationship, your
friendships, to be that person,to be someone that people can be
honest with, to be non-reactive, to do your best, to be with
the truth.
Not have to be perfect, nothave to always be liked, be
(28:56):
willing to be human, not go andengage in the natural human, not
go and engage in the natural,common, socially accepted
grenade way of fighting, butreally connecting and being
honest and being willing to hearsomeone else's honesty so that
(29:16):
you can have an even more lovingand deeper connection With that
.
I want to say thank you so muchfor listening.
I hope this really landed.
If something really resonatedwith you, please, please, please
, let us know.
We'd love hearing from you.
I love receiving your messagesand your DMs.
If you feel so called, pleaseleave a review on Apple.
(29:40):
Thanks so much, until next time.
Bye for now.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Thank you for joining us on the Desire is Medicine
podcast.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Desire invites us to be honest, loving and deeply
intimate with ourselves andothers.
You can find our handles in theshow notes.
We'd love to hear from you.
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