March 26, 2025 • 38 mins
Brenda and Catherine pull back the curtain and explore their own sisterhood and the transformative power of truth-telling in female friendships. They share how their relationship began with an act of honesty and vulnerability, setting the stage for an authentic connection that transcends conventional women's relationships.
Episode Highlights:
• How Catherine was mentoring Brenda's daughter and it led to moments of truth, sparking their friendship
• How honesty and truth-telling form the bedrock of transformative female friendships
• The concept of "cleanup" - taking responsibility when communication lands poorly without blame or defensiveness
• The importance of self-holding and managing your own emotions instead of making them someone else's responsibility
• Moving beyond superficial "wine and complain" friendships to soul-nourishing connections
• Balancing the desire to help with the wisdom to allow others their own journey
• The power of reflecting back another woman's strength and capability rather than trying to fix her
• Finding the discernment to know when to speak truth and when to simply hold space
Where do you struggle with sisterhood? We'd love to hear your takeaways and what topics you'd like us to explore further in future episodes. Reach out to us @desireasmedicinepodcast on instagram
How did you like this episode? Tell us everything, we'd love to hear from you.
If you'd like to learn more about 1:1 or group coaching with Brenda or Catherine message them and book a Sales Call to learn more.
Email:
desireasmedicine@gmail.com
goddessbrenda24@gmail.com
catherine@catherinenavarro.com
Instagram:
@desireasmedicinepodcast
@Brenda_Fredericks
@CoachCatherineN
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome to Desire is Medicine.
We are two very different womenliving a life led by desire.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Inviting you into our world.
I'm Brenda.
I'm a devoted practitioner tobeing my fully expressed true
self in my daily life,motherhood relationships and my
business Desire has taken me onquite a ride and every day I
practice listening to andfollowing the voice within.
I'm a middle school teacherturned coach and guide of the
(00:35):
feminine.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the
truest and, hopefully thehighest version of me.
I don't have children.
I've never been married.
I spent equal parts of my lifein corporate as in some down and
low shady spaces.
I was the epitome of tired andwired, and my path led me to
explore desire.
I'm a coach, guide, energyworker and a forever student.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Even after decades of inner work, we are humble
beginners on the mat, stillexploring, always curious.
We believe that listening toand following the nudge of
desire is a deep spiritualpractice that helps us grow.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
On the Desires Medicine podcast.
We talk to each other, weinterview people we know and
love about the practice ofdesire, bringing in a very
important piece that is oftenoverlooked being responsible for
our desire peace that is oftenoverlooked.
Being responsible for ourdesire.
Welcome back, friends, hello,hello.
(01:35):
Thank you so much for listeningand tuning in to the Desire as
Medicine podcast.
I am joined today with thelovely co-host to the Desire is
Medicine podcast, brenda, one ofmy favorite humans of all time.
Brenda and I have a gorgeoussisterhood.
It did not happen overnight.
(01:56):
I am going to sort of share alittle bit of what that looks
like.
I am unclear if I have saidthis on the podcast before.
I tend to channel sometimes andthen I forget and then Brenda
reminds me.
So maybe later she's going toremind me.
But since I am opening, if Ihave said it before, too bad I'm
(02:20):
saying it again.
Bad I'm saying it again.
So I was in a coaching programand I actually met Brenda's
daughter and she's really young.
I mean, she's in her twenties,I don't even think she's in her
thirties yet.
Uh, and I didn't know Brenda.
(02:42):
And in this coaching programthere were some things occurring
and sisterhood was definitelypart of the program.
It was something that wasspoken about.
One thing that I feel reallystrongly as a woman is that I
(03:05):
think I guess I feel stronglyabout this even as a human.
I think that when we knowbetter, we do better.
Ultimately, I think we all wanthappiness and we want healthy,
fulfilling lives.
So I saw some things happeningwith her and with her daughter,
(03:25):
haley, and I asked Haley hey,can I share?
And I remember sharing somethings with Haley and I know I
feel strongly about this and I'msure I've talked about this
part before on the podcast,which is my mom died when I was
very young, I was 15.
And one of the things that Iwanted more than anything in
this life was to have an elderwoman in my life that was strong
(03:47):
, that was powerful, that was inher power, while also being
extremely loving and soft andgenerous.
And I feel like a version ofthat now.
I feel like a version of womanthat I really wanted when I was
young.
Now I feel like a version ofwoman that I really wanted when
I was young, and so whenever Isee a younger woman Encountering
(04:14):
some questions about life, etc.
I tend to want to lean in andoffer a reflection of some kind
Of course with consent.
People don't come get me allright internet, I ask for
consent.
So I asked for consent.
She said, yes, we had our ownconnection and Haley's just a
lovely human.
(04:35):
Fast forward a little bit.
I was taking a business classand Brenda was there and I met
Brenda for the first time.
But now I'm meeting Haley's momand it felt like an authority
figure.
And here's this woman.
She's like tall and gorgeous,luscious hair, and she has all
this presence and we so happento be sitting next to each other
(04:59):
.
And this must have beenpotentially 2018, I want to say,
this must have been potentially2018, I want to say.
And I said to her I think wehad like exercises to do with
one another and in our lineage,one of the things that we say is
like I just want to offercleanup or I want to say some
things, and so I just let herknow.
(05:20):
Hey, I may have oversteppedwith your daughter a few times,
sort of injected myself.
I did ask for consent, but Ijust want you to know, and I
wanted her to know because I wasstarting to feel like we had a
friendship brewing and I didn'twant her to be blindsided or
potentially she would have anopinion about a woman speaking
to her daughter.
(05:40):
I just didn't know.
Lo and behold, they have agorgeous relationship and my
fears and worries at the timeprobably didn't matter.
I don't know, I have neveractually asked that particular
question, but my way of beingrespectful was to sort of bring
her into this, and there havebeen many things that have
happened in between, but thiswas sort of the seed of the
(06:05):
early beginnings, of when I sawthis woman who was stunning and
smart and a gorgeous presence,and I thought to myself she's
someone I want to know.
I've really enjoyed herdaughter myself.
(06:26):
She's someone I want to know.
I've really enjoyed herdaughter.
But she's my peer, we're closerin age and I would really love
to form a better friendship withher.
Can you remember that time,brenda?
Speaker 1 (06:35):
This is bringing back the best memories.
Yes, you're right.
It was 2018 and you met mydaughter.
She was just out of collegewhen she did that coaching
program, so she was early 20sand she's actually about to be
30 this month, so it has been abunch of years.
I do remember that and Iremember that exact moment when
(06:59):
you came over to me and you weretelling me this thing and I
don't remember the detailsanymore.
I trust that you do thing and Idon't remember the details
anymore.
I trust that you do and mytakeaway was, oh, this woman is
telling me something that meansso much to her and I felt
respected, like, oh, she'stelling me something about my
(07:20):
daughter and it felt like a lotof respect and reverence and
care.
That was my takeaway, withoutremembering the details, and I
think we just were friends eversince that moment.
We did this little businessprogram together, like how to
(07:41):
have a business, which is areally funny stories from that,
which maybe we'll tell anothertime which was 2018.
And Catherine asked me if Iwanted to hang out.
I think we met in Jersey cityand we did some coworking and I
was really touched by Catherine.
(08:02):
I was like, who is this woman,catherine's a woman's woman,
like she is a sister, and I feltthat and I wanted that and I
really felt like that waspossible with Catherine, this
powerful woman who's muchshorter than me, but like
(08:26):
explosion of power and humor andtruth, and it was a little
confronting because we're sodifferent, which now is such a
gift and I guess it was a giftback then too but I was really
touched by that.
I was really touched by thatand you're bringing up a
(08:47):
beautiful piece of sisterhoodwhich is coming to each other
with the truth, and that's howwe met, oh, my goodness, mic
drop people, mic drop.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yes, One of the biggest pieces of sisterhood and
any relationship, any form ofrelating right, is to not have
withholds.
And, to be really honest, thistitter totter, this place where
I want to mentor younger womenand where I do ask for consent,
but I have a lot of I would sayI still have some charge around
(09:26):
it.
I'm not value neutral.
I'm like, hey, young woman, Iwant you to have the best
fucking life possible and if Icould in any way shape or form,
influence that or move thatfucking needle, I have got you.
So I don't people here.
I am confessing I am notperfect.
This is not a value neutralplace for me.
(09:47):
This is like life is one time.
Life is a long time, but it'sone time.
There are so many differentconditionings for both men and
women.
We don't have that many elders.
We don't have that many peoplethat have gone Like I have been
a professional student ofpersonal development right Like
(10:09):
my whole life, and so, yes, Ifeel really strongly about
showing younger women what'spossible.
And there I was, meeting Brenda,like, oh, I'm like I just met
the mom of the person where Ihave injected myself in my
opinions and, yes, she's grownand all this kinds of stuff.
(10:30):
But that was honest, like for mein that moment.
I'm like the honest thing is,yes, I love her daughter and,
yes, I have injected.
And I'm also not 100% valueneutral.
Here I want to just out myselfto her so that she knows.
Here I want to just out myselfto her so that she knows and
it's, you know, in the range ofwe were going to use a ruler and
measure this on a scale of oneto 10, is it the worst thing?
(10:50):
No, it's not like I do want thebest right, but I'm not value
neutral.
And so it was really importantto me and I was coming from a
place of respect because here Iwas meeting this person and I
did want to form a friendshipwith her because clearly I loved
her daughter, I knew I wasgoing to love her even more and
(11:11):
I wanted her to know me from,not just the person that wanted
to befriend her, but alsowhatever darkness I was bringing
in, like, whatever places werenot clean.
I needed her to know thatupfront.
I didn't want to hide behindthat.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
That's really gorgeous and I love that.
That's the basis of ourfriendship and I just was able
to receive you and I'm so gladyou weren't value neutral with
my daughter.
I mean, I think there's a placeto be value neutral, but we
can't just we're not robotswe're not going to just always
be value neutral all the time.
I think that sometimes we havean opinion and we're going to
(11:52):
share it and we're going to takea chance and maybe we'll
overstep a little bit.
I would rather that than theopposite, which is like
diminishing yourself and notsaying the thing and I think
this is how we bring other womenhigher of all ages is by taking
that chance and sayingsomething, that you see the new
(12:21):
paradigm of sisterhood, asopposed to criticizing or
complaining, with each otherbeing critical or trying to fix.
You're like, hey, I have thistruth that I want to share.
That in itself is value neutral.
(12:41):
So I'm glad that you took achance.
I think that's a brave thing todo and you're so good at that.
Catherine is just great at that.
That's literally my life'sjourney and being on this
podcast is so hellauncomfortable, probably for both
of us in different reasons, butfor me, I've just been learning
to speak my voice and bevisible, and I've worked through
(13:01):
so many visibility wounds onthis podcast and I've worked
through so many visibilitywounds on this podcast.
And for Catherine, it's just,that's just.
She just came out of the wombspeaking her truth.
You know she's said many timesshe has to learn to say it with
more care and love.
If I believe I'm quoting hercorrectly, she's shaking her
(13:26):
head, folks, and giving me thethumbs up and just in that,
we're talking about sisterhood.
We're really talking aboutbacking each other in our
desires and you were backing mydaughter and saying the truth to
somebody in a loving way,without projecting onto them or
getting attached to it or oh,you didn't do what I said.
(13:49):
If they don't want to payattention to it is a loving
thing to do telling each otherthe truth.
I think we need a lot ofpractice in that.
I know I've been practicingthat for many, many years and it
is a new way of relatingbecause, let's face it, women
don't always tell the truth.
(14:10):
We don't tell the truth to eachother.
We don't tell the truth toourselves.
We don't tell the truth to ourmen.
We don't tell our children thetruth.
We don't tell our parents thetruth, we kind of dim it all
down and make it more palatable.
But palatable isn't real.
(14:31):
And if we're talking aboutbeing our full, true selves,
living a life led by desire, yougot to be real.
And that is something that Iwant to bring into this
conversation is backing eachother fully as sisters.
And that does take, you know,that's taking a risk, taking a
(14:54):
chance, and somebody might notlike it.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yes, I 100% agree, and you are correct, we're on
different sides of the spectrumas far as speaking and being
fully expressed.
Brenda's life's work is beingmore fully expressed and my
life's work is learning when I'mnot supposed to say anything,
(15:17):
learning when to just S-T-U-F.
I just need to, yeah, just likenot say it.
So I have a lot of practice incleanup and that's also
something right.
Cleanup is I say something,maybe I misspoke, or maybe I
said it badly, poorly, notenough love, too much judgment
(15:40):
or too much opinion and maybesome shade that's some kind of
shady and personality and so Ihave to say, hey, I didn't mean
it that way or I'm really sorry,but I have seen and witnessed
so many women really confrontedwith not speaking up.
(16:01):
It hasn't been my, my personalcross that I'm willing to stand
on.
The cross that I have, which isI have to clean it up, feels a
lot better.
I have a lot more practice thannot saying something because
(16:21):
I'm afraid of how it's going tocome across and then having to
like sit with it as if I ate thewords.
One thing I have had a lot morepractice in is knowing, oh, if
I say this truth, I might haveto clean something up, and so
now I mostly do it with thepeople that I really love,
(16:41):
because I'm willing to be aperson that has to clean up the
junk.
Before I used to do it witheverybody the neighbor, the
person at the bus stop.
Anybody told me a story like Iwas completely willing to stand
for the highest version ofsomeone at any point in time or
(17:02):
tell my opinion at any point intime, and then I realized, I
guess, the polarity of thethings.
Right, sometimes maybe it wasgood for me to share, maybe it
wasn't.
And then I started to say, oh,this is risky, and that then I
find myself having to defendmyself or explain something to
(17:23):
someone that do I really want tomake this kind of energetic
investment, and so that reallyhelped me get into a place of
discernment with truth andhonesty.
But I do love that I have theskill, the cleanup skill, for
sure.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
This is a great topic , this cleanup skill.
When we're talking about womenand sisterhood because I'm
thinking about disagreements orfights, or when your feelings
get hurt in a friendship which Ithink that happens a lot with
women we have a lot of emotions,we have a lot of feelings and
(18:03):
we can take things personally.
It's very easy to do and andwhat do you do from there?
There's so ways to go fromthere as women.
Oh my goodness, like you canjust backstab someone.
You could talk about her, youcould take a sister down so
easily just by talking about her, right, and then also giving
(18:26):
her a compliment when she walksin the room, like gaslighting
Right, but cleaning up withfriends.
This is really where sisterhoodis like in the practice space,
like you're on the yoga mat andthe go-to or the old way out in
the world is blaming.
You did this, you hurt me, youdid this, and I think the new
(18:52):
way is taking responsibility,like you're pointing to, like
just taking responsibility.
And hey, it takes two to tangoalways.
But what I've been learning isand this has helped my
relationships tremendously it'sjust not even getting involved
(19:12):
in what the other person did,but more focusing on where did I
get hurt and can I just takecare of myself there?
Can I parent myself?
Can I nurture myself?
And then also, where did I havea hiccup?
Where can I take responsibility?
(19:33):
And I just had this with afriend last week.
I'm in California, I'm with abunch of women and I said
something to someone.
I left her a voice memo and herfeelings got hurt and I didn't
realize it at first and then,like five hours later, I thought
(19:53):
, oh, my goodness, I think I mayhave not said that really well,
I think it didn't land well andI want to go back and say hey,
instead of just letting it sitand wondering or waiting for her
to come back and say somethingor not.
I just sent another voice memoand I was like hey, how did that
land?
Do you have any thoughts onthis?
(20:14):
I think it landed kind of funky.
And she came back and she said,yeah, it landed super funky.
Her feelings did get hurt.
Um, her feelings did get hurtand I was able to just look
within and say, oh, I wentreally fast.
I went really fast with thisperson with my own desire.
(20:36):
I was excited about somethingelse.
I left her a quick message.
I kind of hot potatoed it anddidn't really take a lot of care
and instead of just gettinginvolved in her stuff or
anything, I just said, oh, I'mreally sorry, I went really fast
there and that's it.
It was just done.
And honestly, in the past thosethings would have been really
(21:02):
awkward for me.
Well, you're the cleanup queen,so maybe you'll have more to say
on this, but I think it's areally beautiful thing as women
to just and with our men, withanybody, any relationship, just
take responsibility and thewhole thing melts.
And that is permission.
That's permission to be a humanand just kind of mess up a
(21:29):
little bit along the way.
And this is how we practice andgrow.
We can actually practice withour women, with our friends, and
that can take us so much higher.
And if we could practice withour friends and then bring that
to the men, our relationshipswill be that much more
fulfilling as well.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Great point.
Yes, we get to practicerelating everywhere you
mentioned we were talking aboutcleanup, and I would be a mess
if I didn't share one part.
So part of being fullyexpressed and having a high
(22:09):
potential of hurting somebody'sfeelings, that would be me.
That's where I am on thespectrum.
I, my friends, are aware, right, like my sister's aware, I'm
sure, brenda, if you havesomething really tender to tell
me, you're going to tell me.
I'm going to share somethingand I'm tender because that lets
me know.
Hey, catherine, don't come inand fucking chop my head off or
give me some strong, tough loveLike that's not where the fuck
(22:31):
I'm at, I'm like bleeding,bleeding heart.
And so I really appreciate whenpeople tell me where they are,
because sometimes I miss that, Imiss the cue, because it's not
something that I'm looking for,it's not.
(22:52):
Yes, it's not my first responseby any mean.
My first response is, to behonest, quick in and out, and I
do know that for my more tenderfriends it does require a lot
more energy on my part becauseit's not my natural way of being
.
So I have to do my very bestand sometimes I surprise myself,
(23:15):
sometimes I think it was reallymean, and then my friends will
be like no, that was fine, it'sfine.
Not, it was fine, you hurt myfeelings, I'm fine, I'm just
like it was fine, it was reallyloving, it didn't land sideways.
But sometimes I'm so careful,right, mincing and like watching
and making sure I don't step onany booby traps and that sort
of thing.
It's not so easy, right.
(23:39):
And this is the other partabout honesty.
It's like like I can be fullyexpressed and really honest with
a sister, but if I have tocater it to where she's at all
the time, then there comes apoint where I don't want to
share anymore because it's justso exhausting, right, and just
(24:01):
so tiring.
I have too many things on myplate to be thinking about where
she is on the spectrum of heremotions, and so that's the
other part of this.
Honesty is like can we be thepeople that people can be honest
with us?
Can we, like if our sisters arebacking us and telling us
(24:25):
truths, there will be momentswhere we're going to hear things
that we don't want to hear,maybe not in the way we want to
hear it.
Maybe it comes across mean.
Can we hold ourselves enoughthat we continue to hold the
bond and the path of honesty,going in one direction as well
(24:47):
as the other.
So that's also something tothink about.
Not just can you deliver truth,but can you receive it, and my
favorite word is ouch.
When that happens, I receivedsomething that was harsh.
I'm like ouch that hurt,because I want to let the person
(25:08):
know that it hurt, but I don'twant them to not tell me.
Because it's really, reallyimportant to me that the people
that I value the most in my lifecan be honest with me, that
they don't have to tiptoe aroundme or worry about my emotions
or worry about how I'm going totake something or try to in some
(25:31):
way manage my nervous system.
I don't want that to be someoneelse's job.
I want it to be my job.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, that's really a beautiful piece, the
self-holding, taking care ofyourself.
And that's why it's so many ofthese conversations.
We really always do bring itcare of yourself and that's why
it's so many of theseconversations.
We really always do bring itback to yourself, starting with
yourself, taking care ofyourself.
Where did your feelings gethurt?
What can you do?
(25:58):
What do you need?
How can you be honest?
That's just baseline takingcare of your own self and your
own system.
And the more you do that withyourself, the more you're going
to be able to show up and havethe relationships that you want,
because you're not bringingyour mess to your relationship.
(26:22):
And that's not to say that youcan't ever do that, but if
that's all that you're doing,then you're really going back to
the low level relating thatwe're talking about like the old
French fries warmed up in seedoil.
That's really pretty gross.
I don't want it.
I want like the filet mignon atthe great restaurant that's
(26:46):
cooked in high quality oils.
And how do we have that?
And you know, you're talkingabout honesty, being real.
We're talking about practicewith each other as women, and I
think this is a new way ofrelating.
I I've always, I've always hadfriends and I've always had
(27:11):
women around me.
I grew up with a sister.
I have a much younger sister aswell, but I didn't.
We didn't grow up together.
Um, and my mother always hadfriends.
I always saw my mothersurrounded by friends and I
always saw one of mygrandmothers had a lot of
friends.
The other one really didn't.
She maybe had one friend butshe was more into like her
(27:33):
marriage and the husband anddidn't quite have the
friendships.
So I saw a lot of differentkinds of things and I really
just wanted deep friendshipswith women and I never really
knew how to have it.
When my kids were growing up andwhen I was teaching, my friends
(27:54):
were naturally my kids' parentsno, my kids' friends' parents.
I tried so hard to be friendswith them.
I tried so hard, catherine, Ireally did, and I would hit it
sometimes, but it was mostly notsatisfying because my
(28:16):
experience was that so manymothers just want to talk about
their children and I can get onthat ride from here to kingdom
come, but it can only go so deep.
You know that conversation andthe complaining, the typical way
.
And then later on I had morefriendships that were people
(28:37):
that I worked with that I reallyloved and cared about and I
noticed I would start to go awaywith women when my kids were
maybe like nine or 10, we wouldgo on like a women's weekend and
it was as good as I knew how tohave it back then.
But when I think about it, itwas kind of like a break is
(29:00):
really what it was but it wasn'treally nourishing or feeding my
soul.
It was like a lot of drinkingwine and complaining and like
cooking and walking, which isgreat there's nothing wrong with
those things but it didn't.
It didn't ever really reallytouch the spot of what I really
wanted and I've just always beencraving that, you know.
(29:25):
And the more work I did onmyself and the more I put myself
in rooms where this beautifulLatina woman can come up to me
and tell me some truth that shewas talking to my daughter about
, that's when I really began tohave it and it just started with
(29:46):
myself.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Thanks so much for that.
Oh, thank you for the visual,though.
So good, just women talkingabout their kids drinking wine,
going for a walk and cooking,and it was like a break right,
Probably like break from theroutine, from what you're used
to.
And we, like, had street fightsand, you know, backed each
(30:13):
other on that when we fought menand there were guns involved
and all kinds of weird shitgrowing up, so.
But in my I think I was about 19when I was like, oh, I don't
like how this feels.
It's a very codependent.
I don't think I had the wordsfor that then.
Not, I don't think I know Idon't have the words for that.
(30:34):
That was when I walked into myfirst yoga studio and oh,
because I was like, if I keepgetting in these fights and my
friends get into fights too, Iprobably have an anger
management issue.
I should probably check on thatshit.
And so I did, because you can'treally be old and fighting with
(30:56):
your hands and handlingconversations with your hands,
you end up in prison.
So I didn't want to do that.
But as I started to enterdifferent rooms and started to
see the care and love and thebacking there, I was like, oh,
this is different and it stilltook some time.
(31:20):
When I had my first diagnosis inmy 30s, my early 30s, I was
like, wow, I've worked so hardand I'm debt-free and have a
nice place and relationship, etcetera, Something's missing.
I didn't even know it wasmissing until I knew it was
(31:42):
missing, and I didn't even knowhow to have it because I didn't
have even the possibility of it,Because I didn't even have
access to my oh.
I feel emotional right now.
I didn't even know how I couldcreate it.
I thought to myself what am Iworking so hard for?
Why am I looking to have moretime freedom and more money
(32:04):
freedom If, at the end of theday, I'm not able to nurture
what I have?
And I definitely had tons ofcleanup back then?
Can you imagine truth tellingat that time in my life, Jesus
Christ, I was like a fuckingbulldozer.
It was horrendous.
I and people loved it.
Everybody came to me all thetime to ask me what I thought
about shit, because I can seethings right, and so that's
(32:27):
always been.
That's always been there.
I've always had sight.
If you're a client of mine andyou're listening to this, I'm
sorry.
I love you and I don't know howto teach that.
It's just like my God sparkright, it's something that it's
my gift.
Somebody could come to me andgive me all the pieces and I see
shit underneath, Like I see, asif I have x-ray vision and so
(32:49):
telling people sometimes someshit.
When they asked me, I used tohave consent.
Back then they would tell me,please tell me.
Then I would tell them and theywouldn't want to kill the
messenger.
It was fucking horrendous.
Oh my goodness, Fast forward.
Now I have more than a decadetwo decades learning how to hone
this and I'm like oh, consentactually is just part of it.
(33:10):
I also have to evaluate is thisperson being honest with me?
If, for some reason, I'vemisread this, am I willing to
hold the brunt of this?
Sometimes the answer is no andI won't share.
I realized, oh, I'm in aparticular pattern sometimes
where people want to bait mebecause they can't fight
(33:31):
anywhere else.
They want to fight me.
I know, I have that in my DNAand it's like how do you still
back someone who's asking youfor consent even though you know
they're not really asking?
It's like a completely newlevel of play.
I just had somebody ask me theother day, say oh, but I know
you have an opinion.
I'm like of course I have anopinion.
(33:52):
They're like say, oh, but Iknow you have an opinion.
I'm like of course I have anopinion.
They're like well, so tell me.
I'm like no, I really thinkthat my opinion will be your
opinion, or a different versionof that very soon.
But this is the lesson that youhave to go through, and I can
see that it's taken me so longto be able to see that it was
exhausting to get here.
But I can see that it's takenme so long to be able to see
(34:12):
that it was exhausting to gethere, but I can see that now.
And so there is some discernmentthat takes place as you back
your sisters right whensomebody's going through a
lesson and yes, you can see, butyou know, what's better than
telling somebody something thanactually living, experiencing it
(34:34):
and knowing it for themselves?
Sometimes sight is just that.
It's just for me to have.
I don't have to share it.
So, as we want to back others,we want to be honest.
As we want to be backed, wewant them to be honest with us.
We want to be someone that canyou know, somebody can be honest
with and as well, I wanteverybody to have connection and
(35:00):
intimacy at deep levels, and Ialso wish you discernment to
allow people their lessons andtheir development, especially if
there are a few steps behind,because you can back them in
their experience.
You can just hold them and tellthem I understand this is tough
, you are resourceful, you arecapable, I back you and what do
(35:23):
you need?
In this episode we've touched somany different places how my
relationship with Brenda started, how honesty honesty is so
important, how we have opinionsbut we don't always have to give
them.
And if we're giving them,please have consent.
And if we fucked it up, pleaseclean it up, Own your part, hold
(35:43):
yourself.
And why all of this?
Because life is so much betterlived with others.
We're not meant to do thisalone, Not because we can't,
because it's so much morerewarding when we do it in
(36:04):
connection.
I'm feeling like we're wrappingthis up, but I want to just
check in with Brenda and see ifthere's something you want,
something else you want to say.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
That was a gorgeous, gorgeous summary.
I want to frame this aspermission, approval, approval
for the journey, approval forthe process that someone goes
through, which, if you havewomen in your life, it's their
process and journey is going tolook different than yours and
(36:34):
they're going to learn lessonsin a different way.
And the biggest piece, which isso beautiful and you touched on
it before in your story isreflecting each other's power to
each other, seeing each otheras whole and capable and
powerful, and not having to comein and fix it or tell them what
(37:01):
to do or give them all thepieces, but having so much trust
for the journey that you justlet them have their journey.
You don't have to interjectyour genius of how you think it
should go, and that is abeautiful gift.
And that's seeing someone intheir full power.
(37:24):
And that's what we need more ofin this world is women in their
full power.
This world is women in theirfull power.
And, like we talked aboutearlier, that is the soft, open,
receptive power.
It's about trusting andallowing, not forcing.
(37:44):
Thank you so much for joining ustoday in this two-part series
on sisterhood.
Today, in this two-part serieson sisterhood, maybe we'll do
more.
We would love to hear what yourtakeaways are from this episode
, from this part one and parttwo of sisterhood, and what do
you want to hear more of?
Where do you struggle withwomen, with sisterhood?
(38:06):
This is something common tostruggle with.
This is a huge desire that wehave is friends and laughter,
and truth telling and joy andcelebration, and how do we have
it?
So where do you feel stuck andwhere can we back you?
(38:27):
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
Thank you for joining us on thedesire is medicine podcast.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Desire invites us to be honest, loving and deeply
intimate with ourselves andothers.
You can find our handles in theshow notes.
We'd love to hear from you.
Welcome to Desire is Medicine.
We are two very different womenliving a life led by desire.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Inviting you into our world.
I'm Brenda.
I'm a devoted practitioner tobeing my fully expressed true
self in my daily life,motherhood relationships and my
business Desire has taken me onquite a ride and every day I
practice listening to andfollowing the voice within.
I'm a middle school teacherturned coach and guide of the
(00:35):
feminine.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the
truest and, hopefully thehighest version of me.
I don't have children.
I've never been married.
I spent equal parts of my lifein corporate as in some down and
low shady spaces.
I was the epitome of tired andwired, and my path led me to
explore desire.
I'm a coach, guide, energyworker and a forever student.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Even after decades of inner work, we are humble
beginners on the mat, stillexploring, always curious.
We believe that listening toand following the nudge of
desire is a deep spiritualpractice that helps us grow.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
On the Desires Medicine podcast.
We talk to each other, weinterview people we know and
love about the practice ofdesire, bringing in a very
important piece that is oftenoverlooked being responsible for
our desire peace that is oftenoverlooked.
Being responsible for ourdesire.
Welcome back, friends, hello,hello.
(01:35):
Thank you so much for listeningand tuning in to the Desire as
Medicine podcast.
I am joined today with thelovely co-host to the Desire is
Medicine podcast, brenda, one ofmy favorite humans of all time.
Brenda and I have a gorgeoussisterhood.
It did not happen overnight.
(01:56):
I am going to sort of share alittle bit of what that looks
like.
I am unclear if I have saidthis on the podcast before.
I tend to channel sometimes andthen I forget and then Brenda
reminds me.
So maybe later she's going toremind me.
But since I am opening, if Ihave said it before, too bad I'm
(02:20):
saying it again.
Bad I'm saying it again.
So I was in a coaching programand I actually met Brenda's
daughter and she's really young.
I mean, she's in her twenties,I don't even think she's in her
thirties yet.
Uh, and I didn't know Brenda.
(02:42):
And in this coaching programthere were some things occurring
and sisterhood was definitelypart of the program.
It was something that wasspoken about.
One thing that I feel reallystrongly as a woman is that I
(03:05):
think I guess I feel stronglyabout this even as a human.
I think that when we knowbetter, we do better.
Ultimately, I think we all wanthappiness and we want healthy,
fulfilling lives.
So I saw some things happeningwith her and with her daughter,
(03:25):
haley, and I asked Haley hey,can I share?
And I remember sharing somethings with Haley and I know I
feel strongly about this and I'msure I've talked about this
part before on the podcast,which is my mom died when I was
very young, I was 15.
And one of the things that Iwanted more than anything in
this life was to have an elderwoman in my life that was strong
(03:47):
, that was powerful, that was inher power, while also being
extremely loving and soft andgenerous.
And I feel like a version ofthat now.
I feel like a version of womanthat I really wanted when I was
young.
Now I feel like a version ofwoman that I really wanted when
I was young, and so whenever Isee a younger woman Encountering
(04:14):
some questions about life, etc.
I tend to want to lean in andoffer a reflection of some kind
Of course with consent.
People don't come get me allright internet, I ask for
consent.
So I asked for consent.
She said, yes, we had our ownconnection and Haley's just a
lovely human.
(04:35):
Fast forward a little bit.
I was taking a business classand Brenda was there and I met
Brenda for the first time.
But now I'm meeting Haley's momand it felt like an authority
figure.
And here's this woman.
She's like tall and gorgeous,luscious hair, and she has all
this presence and we so happento be sitting next to each other
(04:59):
.
And this must have beenpotentially 2018, I want to say,
this must have been potentially2018, I want to say.
And I said to her I think wehad like exercises to do with
one another and in our lineage,one of the things that we say is
like I just want to offercleanup or I want to say some
things, and so I just let herknow.
(05:20):
Hey, I may have oversteppedwith your daughter a few times,
sort of injected myself.
I did ask for consent, but Ijust want you to know, and I
wanted her to know because I wasstarting to feel like we had a
friendship brewing and I didn'twant her to be blindsided or
potentially she would have anopinion about a woman speaking
to her daughter.
(05:40):
I just didn't know.
Lo and behold, they have agorgeous relationship and my
fears and worries at the timeprobably didn't matter.
I don't know, I have neveractually asked that particular
question, but my way of beingrespectful was to sort of bring
her into this, and there havebeen many things that have
happened in between, but thiswas sort of the seed of the
(06:05):
early beginnings, of when I sawthis woman who was stunning and
smart and a gorgeous presence,and I thought to myself she's
someone I want to know.
I've really enjoyed herdaughter myself.
(06:26):
She's someone I want to know.
I've really enjoyed herdaughter.
But she's my peer, we're closerin age and I would really love
to form a better friendship withher.
Can you remember that time,brenda?
Speaker 1 (06:35):
This is bringing back the best memories.
Yes, you're right.
It was 2018 and you met mydaughter.
She was just out of collegewhen she did that coaching
program, so she was early 20sand she's actually about to be
30 this month, so it has been abunch of years.
I do remember that and Iremember that exact moment when
(06:59):
you came over to me and you weretelling me this thing and I
don't remember the detailsanymore.
I trust that you do thing and Idon't remember the details
anymore.
I trust that you do and mytakeaway was, oh, this woman is
telling me something that meansso much to her and I felt
respected, like, oh, she'stelling me something about my
(07:20):
daughter and it felt like a lotof respect and reverence and
care.
That was my takeaway, withoutremembering the details, and I
think we just were friends eversince that moment.
We did this little businessprogram together, like how to
(07:41):
have a business, which is areally funny stories from that,
which maybe we'll tell anothertime which was 2018.
And Catherine asked me if Iwanted to hang out.
I think we met in Jersey cityand we did some coworking and I
was really touched by Catherine.
(08:02):
I was like, who is this woman,catherine's a woman's woman,
like she is a sister, and I feltthat and I wanted that and I
really felt like that waspossible with Catherine, this
powerful woman who's muchshorter than me, but like
(08:26):
explosion of power and humor andtruth, and it was a little
confronting because we're sodifferent, which now is such a
gift and I guess it was a giftback then too but I was really
touched by that.
I was really touched by thatand you're bringing up a
(08:47):
beautiful piece of sisterhoodwhich is coming to each other
with the truth, and that's howwe met, oh, my goodness, mic
drop people, mic drop.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yes, One of the biggest pieces of sisterhood and
any relationship, any form ofrelating right, is to not have
withholds.
And, to be really honest, thistitter totter, this place where
I want to mentor younger womenand where I do ask for consent,
but I have a lot of I would sayI still have some charge around
(09:26):
it.
I'm not value neutral.
I'm like, hey, young woman, Iwant you to have the best
fucking life possible and if Icould in any way shape or form,
influence that or move thatfucking needle, I have got you.
So I don't people here.
I am confessing I am notperfect.
This is not a value neutralplace for me.
(09:47):
This is like life is one time.
Life is a long time, but it'sone time.
There are so many differentconditionings for both men and
women.
We don't have that many elders.
We don't have that many peoplethat have gone Like I have been
a professional student ofpersonal development right Like
(10:09):
my whole life, and so, yes, Ifeel really strongly about
showing younger women what'spossible.
And there I was, meeting Brenda,like, oh, I'm like I just met
the mom of the person where Ihave injected myself in my
opinions and, yes, she's grownand all this kinds of stuff.
(10:30):
But that was honest, like for mein that moment.
I'm like the honest thing is,yes, I love her daughter and,
yes, I have injected.
And I'm also not 100% valueneutral.
Here I want to just out myselfto her so that she knows.
Here I want to just out myselfto her so that she knows and
it's, you know, in the range ofwe were going to use a ruler and
measure this on a scale of oneto 10, is it the worst thing?
(10:50):
No, it's not like I do want thebest right, but I'm not value
neutral.
And so it was really importantto me and I was coming from a
place of respect because here Iwas meeting this person and I
did want to form a friendshipwith her because clearly I loved
her daughter, I knew I wasgoing to love her even more and
(11:11):
I wanted her to know me from,not just the person that wanted
to befriend her, but alsowhatever darkness I was bringing
in, like, whatever places werenot clean.
I needed her to know thatupfront.
I didn't want to hide behindthat.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
That's really gorgeous and I love that.
That's the basis of ourfriendship and I just was able
to receive you and I'm so gladyou weren't value neutral with
my daughter.
I mean, I think there's a placeto be value neutral, but we
can't just we're not robotswe're not going to just always
be value neutral all the time.
I think that sometimes we havean opinion and we're going to
(11:52):
share it and we're going to takea chance and maybe we'll
overstep a little bit.
I would rather that than theopposite, which is like
diminishing yourself and notsaying the thing and I think
this is how we bring other womenhigher of all ages is by taking
that chance and sayingsomething, that you see the new
(12:21):
paradigm of sisterhood, asopposed to criticizing or
complaining, with each otherbeing critical or trying to fix.
You're like, hey, I have thistruth that I want to share.
That in itself is value neutral.
(12:41):
So I'm glad that you took achance.
I think that's a brave thing todo and you're so good at that.
Catherine is just great at that.
That's literally my life'sjourney and being on this
podcast is so hellauncomfortable, probably for both
of us in different reasons, butfor me, I've just been learning
to speak my voice and bevisible, and I've worked through
(13:01):
so many visibility wounds onthis podcast and I've worked
through so many visibilitywounds on this podcast.
And for Catherine, it's just,that's just.
She just came out of the wombspeaking her truth.
You know she's said many timesshe has to learn to say it with
more care and love.
If I believe I'm quoting hercorrectly, she's shaking her
(13:26):
head, folks, and giving me thethumbs up and just in that,
we're talking about sisterhood.
We're really talking aboutbacking each other in our
desires and you were backing mydaughter and saying the truth to
somebody in a loving way,without projecting onto them or
getting attached to it or oh,you didn't do what I said.
(13:49):
If they don't want to payattention to it is a loving
thing to do telling each otherthe truth.
I think we need a lot ofpractice in that.
I know I've been practicingthat for many, many years and it
is a new way of relatingbecause, let's face it, women
don't always tell the truth.
(14:10):
We don't tell the truth to eachother.
We don't tell the truth toourselves.
We don't tell the truth to ourmen.
We don't tell our children thetruth.
We don't tell our parents thetruth, we kind of dim it all
down and make it more palatable.
But palatable isn't real.
(14:31):
And if we're talking aboutbeing our full, true selves,
living a life led by desire, yougot to be real.
And that is something that Iwant to bring into this
conversation is backing eachother fully as sisters.
And that does take, you know,that's taking a risk, taking a
(14:54):
chance, and somebody might notlike it.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yes, I 100% agree, and you are correct, we're on
different sides of the spectrumas far as speaking and being
fully expressed.
Brenda's life's work is beingmore fully expressed and my
life's work is learning when I'mnot supposed to say anything,
(15:17):
learning when to just S-T-U-F.
I just need to, yeah, just likenot say it.
So I have a lot of practice incleanup and that's also
something right.
Cleanup is I say something,maybe I misspoke, or maybe I
said it badly, poorly, notenough love, too much judgment
(15:40):
or too much opinion and maybesome shade that's some kind of
shady and personality and so Ihave to say, hey, I didn't mean
it that way or I'm really sorry,but I have seen and witnessed
so many women really confrontedwith not speaking up.
(16:01):
It hasn't been my, my personalcross that I'm willing to stand
on.
The cross that I have, which isI have to clean it up, feels a
lot better.
I have a lot more practice thannot saying something because
(16:21):
I'm afraid of how it's going tocome across and then having to
like sit with it as if I ate thewords.
One thing I have had a lot morepractice in is knowing, oh, if
I say this truth, I might haveto clean something up, and so
now I mostly do it with thepeople that I really love,
(16:41):
because I'm willing to be aperson that has to clean up the
junk.
Before I used to do it witheverybody the neighbor, the
person at the bus stop.
Anybody told me a story like Iwas completely willing to stand
for the highest version ofsomeone at any point in time or
(17:02):
tell my opinion at any point intime, and then I realized, I
guess, the polarity of thethings.
Right, sometimes maybe it wasgood for me to share, maybe it
wasn't.
And then I started to say, oh,this is risky, and that then I
find myself having to defendmyself or explain something to
(17:23):
someone that do I really want tomake this kind of energetic
investment, and so that reallyhelped me get into a place of
discernment with truth andhonesty.
But I do love that I have theskill, the cleanup skill, for
sure.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
This is a great topic , this cleanup skill.
When we're talking about womenand sisterhood because I'm
thinking about disagreements orfights, or when your feelings
get hurt in a friendship which Ithink that happens a lot with
women we have a lot of emotions,we have a lot of feelings and
(18:03):
we can take things personally.
It's very easy to do and andwhat do you do from there?
There's so ways to go fromthere as women.
Oh my goodness, like you canjust backstab someone.
You could talk about her, youcould take a sister down so
easily just by talking about her, right, and then also giving
(18:26):
her a compliment when she walksin the room, like gaslighting
Right, but cleaning up withfriends.
This is really where sisterhoodis like in the practice space,
like you're on the yoga mat andthe go-to or the old way out in
the world is blaming.
You did this, you hurt me, youdid this, and I think the new
(18:52):
way is taking responsibility,like you're pointing to, like
just taking responsibility.
And hey, it takes two to tangoalways.
But what I've been learning isand this has helped my
relationships tremendously it'sjust not even getting involved
(19:12):
in what the other person did,but more focusing on where did I
get hurt and can I just takecare of myself there?
Can I parent myself?
Can I nurture myself?
And then also, where did I havea hiccup?
Where can I take responsibility?
(19:33):
And I just had this with afriend last week.
I'm in California, I'm with abunch of women and I said
something to someone.
I left her a voice memo and herfeelings got hurt and I didn't
realize it at first and then,like five hours later, I thought
(19:53):
, oh, my goodness, I think I mayhave not said that really well,
I think it didn't land well andI want to go back and say hey,
instead of just letting it sitand wondering or waiting for her
to come back and say somethingor not.
I just sent another voice memoand I was like hey, how did that
land?
Do you have any thoughts onthis?
(20:14):
I think it landed kind of funky.
And she came back and she said,yeah, it landed super funky.
Her feelings did get hurt.
Um, her feelings did get hurtand I was able to just look
within and say, oh, I wentreally fast.
I went really fast with thisperson with my own desire.
(20:36):
I was excited about somethingelse.
I left her a quick message.
I kind of hot potatoed it anddidn't really take a lot of care
and instead of just gettinginvolved in her stuff or
anything, I just said, oh, I'mreally sorry, I went really fast
there and that's it.
It was just done.
And honestly, in the past thosethings would have been really
(21:02):
awkward for me.
Well, you're the cleanup queen,so maybe you'll have more to say
on this, but I think it's areally beautiful thing as women
to just and with our men, withanybody, any relationship, just
take responsibility and thewhole thing melts.
And that is permission.
That's permission to be a humanand just kind of mess up a
(21:29):
little bit along the way.
And this is how we practice andgrow.
We can actually practice withour women, with our friends, and
that can take us so much higher.
And if we could practice withour friends and then bring that
to the men, our relationshipswill be that much more
fulfilling as well.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Great point.
Yes, we get to practicerelating everywhere you
mentioned we were talking aboutcleanup, and I would be a mess
if I didn't share one part.
So part of being fullyexpressed and having a high
(22:09):
potential of hurting somebody'sfeelings, that would be me.
That's where I am on thespectrum.
I, my friends, are aware, right, like my sister's aware, I'm
sure, brenda, if you havesomething really tender to tell
me, you're going to tell me.
I'm going to share somethingand I'm tender because that lets
me know.
Hey, catherine, don't come inand fucking chop my head off or
give me some strong, tough loveLike that's not where the fuck
(22:31):
I'm at, I'm like bleeding,bleeding heart.
And so I really appreciate whenpeople tell me where they are,
because sometimes I miss that, Imiss the cue, because it's not
something that I'm looking for,it's not.
(22:52):
Yes, it's not my first responseby any mean.
My first response is, to behonest, quick in and out, and I
do know that for my more tenderfriends it does require a lot
more energy on my part becauseit's not my natural way of being
.
So I have to do my very bestand sometimes I surprise myself,
(23:15):
sometimes I think it was reallymean, and then my friends will
be like no, that was fine, it'sfine.
Not, it was fine, you hurt myfeelings, I'm fine, I'm just
like it was fine, it was reallyloving, it didn't land sideways.
But sometimes I'm so careful,right, mincing and like watching
and making sure I don't step onany booby traps and that sort
of thing.
It's not so easy, right.
(23:39):
And this is the other partabout honesty.
It's like like I can be fullyexpressed and really honest with
a sister, but if I have tocater it to where she's at all
the time, then there comes apoint where I don't want to
share anymore because it's justso exhausting, right, and just
(24:01):
so tiring.
I have too many things on myplate to be thinking about where
she is on the spectrum of heremotions, and so that's the
other part of this.
Honesty is like can we be thepeople that people can be honest
with us?
Can we, like if our sisters arebacking us and telling us
(24:25):
truths, there will be momentswhere we're going to hear things
that we don't want to hear,maybe not in the way we want to
hear it.
Maybe it comes across mean.
Can we hold ourselves enoughthat we continue to hold the
bond and the path of honesty,going in one direction as well
(24:47):
as the other.
So that's also something tothink about.
Not just can you deliver truth,but can you receive it, and my
favorite word is ouch.
When that happens, I receivedsomething that was harsh.
I'm like ouch that hurt,because I want to let the person
(25:08):
know that it hurt, but I don'twant them to not tell me.
Because it's really, reallyimportant to me that the people
that I value the most in my lifecan be honest with me, that
they don't have to tiptoe aroundme or worry about my emotions
or worry about how I'm going totake something or try to in some
(25:31):
way manage my nervous system.
I don't want that to be someoneelse's job.
I want it to be my job.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, that's really a beautiful piece, the
self-holding, taking care ofyourself.
And that's why it's so many ofthese conversations.
We really always do bring itcare of yourself and that's why
it's so many of theseconversations.
We really always do bring itback to yourself, starting with
yourself, taking care ofyourself.
Where did your feelings gethurt?
What can you do?
(25:58):
What do you need?
How can you be honest?
That's just baseline takingcare of your own self and your
own system.
And the more you do that withyourself, the more you're going
to be able to show up and havethe relationships that you want,
because you're not bringingyour mess to your relationship.
(26:22):
And that's not to say that youcan't ever do that, but if
that's all that you're doing,then you're really going back to
the low level relating thatwe're talking about like the old
French fries warmed up in seedoil.
That's really pretty gross.
I don't want it.
I want like the filet mignon atthe great restaurant that's
(26:46):
cooked in high quality oils.
And how do we have that?
And you know, you're talkingabout honesty, being real.
We're talking about practicewith each other as women, and I
think this is a new way ofrelating.
I I've always, I've always hadfriends and I've always had
(27:11):
women around me.
I grew up with a sister.
I have a much younger sister aswell, but I didn't.
We didn't grow up together.
Um, and my mother always hadfriends.
I always saw my mothersurrounded by friends and I
always saw one of mygrandmothers had a lot of
friends.
The other one really didn't.
She maybe had one friend butshe was more into like her
(27:33):
marriage and the husband anddidn't quite have the
friendships.
So I saw a lot of differentkinds of things and I really
just wanted deep friendshipswith women and I never really
knew how to have it.
When my kids were growing up andwhen I was teaching, my friends
(27:54):
were naturally my kids' parentsno, my kids' friends' parents.
I tried so hard to be friendswith them.
I tried so hard, catherine, Ireally did, and I would hit it
sometimes, but it was mostly notsatisfying because my
(28:16):
experience was that so manymothers just want to talk about
their children and I can get onthat ride from here to kingdom
come, but it can only go so deep.
You know that conversation andthe complaining, the typical way
.
And then later on I had morefriendships that were people
(28:37):
that I worked with that I reallyloved and cared about and I
noticed I would start to go awaywith women when my kids were
maybe like nine or 10, we wouldgo on like a women's weekend and
it was as good as I knew how tohave it back then.
But when I think about it, itwas kind of like a break is
(29:00):
really what it was but it wasn'treally nourishing or feeding my
soul.
It was like a lot of drinkingwine and complaining and like
cooking and walking, which isgreat there's nothing wrong with
those things but it didn't.
It didn't ever really reallytouch the spot of what I really
wanted and I've just always beencraving that, you know.
(29:25):
And the more work I did onmyself and the more I put myself
in rooms where this beautifulLatina woman can come up to me
and tell me some truth that shewas talking to my daughter about
, that's when I really began tohave it and it just started with
(29:46):
myself.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Thanks so much for that.
Oh, thank you for the visual,though.
So good, just women talkingabout their kids drinking wine,
going for a walk and cooking,and it was like a break right,
Probably like break from theroutine, from what you're used
to.
And we, like, had street fightsand, you know, backed each
(30:13):
other on that when we fought menand there were guns involved
and all kinds of weird shitgrowing up, so.
But in my I think I was about 19when I was like, oh, I don't
like how this feels.
It's a very codependent.
I don't think I had the wordsfor that then.
Not, I don't think I know Idon't have the words for that.
(30:34):
That was when I walked into myfirst yoga studio and oh,
because I was like, if I keepgetting in these fights and my
friends get into fights too, Iprobably have an anger
management issue.
I should probably check on thatshit.
And so I did, because you can'treally be old and fighting with
(30:56):
your hands and handlingconversations with your hands,
you end up in prison.
So I didn't want to do that.
But as I started to enterdifferent rooms and started to
see the care and love and thebacking there, I was like, oh,
this is different and it stilltook some time.
(31:20):
When I had my first diagnosis inmy 30s, my early 30s, I was
like, wow, I've worked so hardand I'm debt-free and have a
nice place and relationship, etcetera, Something's missing.
I didn't even know it wasmissing until I knew it was
(31:42):
missing, and I didn't even knowhow to have it because I didn't
have even the possibility of it,Because I didn't even have
access to my oh.
I feel emotional right now.
I didn't even know how I couldcreate it.
I thought to myself what am Iworking so hard for?
Why am I looking to have moretime freedom and more money
(32:04):
freedom If, at the end of theday, I'm not able to nurture
what I have?
And I definitely had tons ofcleanup back then?
Can you imagine truth tellingat that time in my life, Jesus
Christ, I was like a fuckingbulldozer.
It was horrendous.
I and people loved it.
Everybody came to me all thetime to ask me what I thought
about shit, because I can seethings right, and so that's
(32:27):
always been.
That's always been there.
I've always had sight.
If you're a client of mine andyou're listening to this, I'm
sorry.
I love you and I don't know howto teach that.
It's just like my God sparkright, it's something that it's
my gift.
Somebody could come to me andgive me all the pieces and I see
shit underneath, Like I see, asif I have x-ray vision and so
(32:49):
telling people sometimes someshit.
When they asked me, I used tohave consent.
Back then they would tell me,please tell me.
Then I would tell them and theywouldn't want to kill the
messenger.
It was fucking horrendous.
Oh my goodness, Fast forward.
Now I have more than a decadetwo decades learning how to hone
this and I'm like oh, consentactually is just part of it.
(33:10):
I also have to evaluate is thisperson being honest with me?
If, for some reason, I'vemisread this, am I willing to
hold the brunt of this?
Sometimes the answer is no andI won't share.
I realized, oh, I'm in aparticular pattern sometimes
where people want to bait mebecause they can't fight
(33:31):
anywhere else.
They want to fight me.
I know, I have that in my DNAand it's like how do you still
back someone who's asking youfor consent even though you know
they're not really asking?
It's like a completely newlevel of play.
I just had somebody ask me theother day, say oh, but I know
you have an opinion.
I'm like of course I have anopinion.
(33:52):
They're like say, oh, but Iknow you have an opinion.
I'm like of course I have anopinion.
They're like well, so tell me.
I'm like no, I really thinkthat my opinion will be your
opinion, or a different versionof that very soon.
But this is the lesson that youhave to go through, and I can
see that it's taken me so longto be able to see that it was
exhausting to get here.
But I can see that it's takenme so long to be able to see
(34:12):
that it was exhausting to gethere, but I can see that now.
And so there is some discernmentthat takes place as you back
your sisters right whensomebody's going through a
lesson and yes, you can see, butyou know, what's better than
telling somebody something thanactually living, experiencing it
(34:34):
and knowing it for themselves?
Sometimes sight is just that.
It's just for me to have.
I don't have to share it.
So, as we want to back others,we want to be honest.
As we want to be backed, wewant them to be honest with us.
We want to be someone that canyou know, somebody can be honest
with and as well, I wanteverybody to have connection and
(35:00):
intimacy at deep levels, and Ialso wish you discernment to
allow people their lessons andtheir development, especially if
there are a few steps behind,because you can back them in
their experience.
You can just hold them and tellthem I understand this is tough
, you are resourceful, you arecapable, I back you and what do
(35:23):
you need?
In this episode we've touched somany different places how my
relationship with Brenda started, how honesty honesty is so
important, how we have opinionsbut we don't always have to give
them.
And if we're giving them,please have consent.
And if we fucked it up, pleaseclean it up, Own your part, hold
(35:43):
yourself.
And why all of this?
Because life is so much betterlived with others.
We're not meant to do thisalone, Not because we can't,
because it's so much morerewarding when we do it in
(36:04):
connection.
I'm feeling like we're wrappingthis up, but I want to just
check in with Brenda and see ifthere's something you want,
something else you want to say.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
That was a gorgeous, gorgeous summary.
I want to frame this aspermission, approval, approval
for the journey, approval forthe process that someone goes
through, which, if you havewomen in your life, it's their
process and journey is going tolook different than yours and
(36:34):
they're going to learn lessonsin a different way.
And the biggest piece, which isso beautiful and you touched on
it before in your story isreflecting each other's power to
each other, seeing each otheras whole and capable and
powerful, and not having to comein and fix it or tell them what
(37:01):
to do or give them all thepieces, but having so much trust
for the journey that you justlet them have their journey.
You don't have to interjectyour genius of how you think it
should go, and that is abeautiful gift.
And that's seeing someone intheir full power.
(37:24):
And that's what we need more ofin this world is women in their
full power.
This world is women in theirfull power.
And, like we talked aboutearlier, that is the soft, open,
receptive power.
It's about trusting andallowing, not forcing.
(37:44):
Thank you so much for joining ustoday in this two-part series
on sisterhood.
Today, in this two-part serieson sisterhood, maybe we'll do
more.
We would love to hear what yourtakeaways are from this episode
, from this part one and parttwo of sisterhood, and what do
you want to hear more of?
Where do you struggle withwomen, with sisterhood?
(38:06):
This is something common tostruggle with.
This is a huge desire that wehave is friends and laughter,
and truth telling and joy andcelebration, and how do we have
it?
So where do you feel stuck andwhere can we back you?
(38:27):
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
Thank you for joining us on thedesire is medicine podcast.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Desire invites us to be honest, loving and deeply
intimate with ourselves andothers.
You can find our handles in theshow notes.
We'd love to hear from you.
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