November 29, 2024 • 35 mins
Unlock the secrets of forming successful relationships as we bring you an exciting conversation with the esteemed Imam Navaid Aziz. Together, we explore the intricate dynamics of emotional intelligence in relationship matching.
This episode promises to provide valuable insights into recognizing emotional intelligence in a potential spouse, a key determinant in nurturing loving connections.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Assalamu alaikum, I'm Hiba.
And I'm Zaid, you're listeningto Diary of a Matchmaker.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
A podcast that will take you into our world as
matchmakers.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
We'll share our experiences and offer advice for
the single Muslim.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
So let's dive in.
Bismillah.
Assalamu alaikum everyone.
This is Zaid, and on the othermic is my wife and co-host, hiba
, and we're also honored to haveour guest here, sheikh Naveed.
Just a quick intro of SheikhNaveed.
He is a Canadian Imam with abackground in Islamic studies
(00:37):
from Medina University, where hecompleted an associate's degree
in the Arabic language and abachelor's in Islamic law.
He is an imam for IslamicInformation Society of Calgary
and also the director of publicrelations at Al-Maghrib
Institute.
I hope I got the introductioncorrect, sheikh.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Introduction was great.
Just a small touch up on thepronunciation Naveed, not Naveed
.
Naveed, naveed.
Okay, gotcha.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I was wondering about the A, the extra A.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
No worries, no worries, all good, all good.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Welcome, Sheikh.
Thank you for accepting ourinvitation.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
No.
Jazakum Allah Khairan forhaving me.
It's an absolute honor andpleasure to be in your company
today.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
So we took some time to go through a lot of your
content and the one thing thatreally stood out to us was your
lengthy um youtube series onemotional intelligence, which is
something that, um, I feelisn't really touched upon um
much when it comes to uh topicsin um regarding islam and uh and
islamic history.
So I just want to and Islamichistory, so I just want to kind
(01:49):
of dive into that right now.
So what is emotionalintelligence from an Islamic
perspective, excellent.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
So emotional intelligence basically consists
of four things.
It's understanding your ownemotional state, what triggered
it, how you can change it, andthen how you can utilize this
information to basically improveyour relationship with whoever
you're interested in improvingyour relationship in, and you
counter that information as well.
So what is their currentemotional state, what are their
(02:15):
triggers, what are you trying toget to?
And then how do you use thatinformation to create a goal
within the relationship.
So that's how I understandemotional intelligence from a
relationship standpoint.
From an Islamic standpoint,it's how do you use this
information of emotions to getpeople to where they need to be
(02:37):
in the relationship with Allah,subhanahu wa ta'ala, in their
personal goals and ambitions,but, most importantly, to make
Jannah their ultimate motivation.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
So that's interesting , you frame it that way.
So how can we apply that samesort of framework when we're
talking about searching for apotential spouse?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Excellent.
So when we're talking aboutsearching for a potential spouse
, you know we always talk aboutwhat are the red flags that you
should be looking for.
So I would flip the script andsay if you can understand what
emotional intelligence is, thentry to identify where is the
individual that you're engagingwith?
With regards to emotionalintelligence, if they have a lot
of work to do, I wouldpersonally consider that a red
(03:19):
flag.
Up and until they do that work,I always tell people don't go
into a relationship thinkingthat you have the ability to
change people.
There's a reason why Allah,subh'anahu Wa Ta-A'la, tells us
about the father of IbrahimAlayhi Salaam, the son of Nuh
Alayhi Salaam, the wife of LutAlayhi Salaam, because you don't
want to go into a situationwhere you have to change a
person.
If any change should take place, number one, it should be
(03:40):
self-initiated and that processshould have made drastic
progress before the relationshipis official, right, and if that
takes place, then, bismillah,move forward.
But if the person's like youknow what I'll change after
marriage.
People don't change in the waythat you anticipate and expect
them to change after marriage.
So I think if you're able toidentify emotional intelligence
(04:00):
and what a lack thereof lookslike.
I would consider that a majorred flag in the courting process
.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
SubhanAllah.
This reminds me of somethingSheikh Mahad from Sohba
Institute always says don'tmarry potential, marry reality.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Oh 100%.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
You don't want to, like you said, you don't want to
marry someone with thecondition that they might change
right.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Yeah, it's interesting because when I first
think about emotionalintelligence, the main thing I
think of is empathy.
Right?
Does this person have somedegree of empathy?
Can they, you know, putthemselves in another person's
shoes?
But of course, it's much deeperthan that, as you just
explained here.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
A hundred percent.
I always like to give thisexample of how men and women
deal with stress, and I knowthis is like a gross
generalization, but a husbandcomes home from work and he's
really stressed out and the wifeis like you know what, let me
sit him down and let's talkabout his feelings.
She's like tell me about yourfeelings and the husband's like
pulling his hair out.
How do I get?
Speaker 2 (04:58):
out of this situation , and then you flip the script.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Husband comes home and the wife is really stressed
out and he's like you know what,when I'm stressed out, I like
to be left alone to process myemotions.
So let me leave her alone toprocess her emotions and she's
like what type of inconsideratehusband did I marry?
He doesn't even care that I'mupset, right?
So this level of emotionalintelligence, at the most basic
level, of how we understandstress and deal with stress, can
(05:22):
really help mitigate anymisunderstandings in
relationships.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Right Also understanding how different
genders operate 100%psychologically, of course, yeah
.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
So the secret word here, sheikh, is what you said
to identify emotionalintelligence.
Now that's the big question howto do that.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yeah, I mean, identifying emotional
intelligence can be prettytricky, but I would say a lot of
it starts with your ownself-awareness, right?
So are you self-aware in termsof your emotional states and
what triggers you, and then howto improve your emotional states
?
It starts with that, and onceyou get a habit of identifying
your own emotional states andyour own triggers, then you're
able to identify, you know howpeople respond to certain things
(06:04):
, what their emotional statesare, what their triggers are and
what you're trying to do.
Number two you know, I thinkZaid hit the nail on the head.
Oftentimes we affiliateemotional intelligence with
empathy and there is a strongcorrelation there.
But that's the second thingthat I would look at is how
empathetic are they?
Right?
Like one of the leastattractable and desirable things
(06:25):
that you can see in a person isyou share something very
sensitive and very intimate, butthey just brush it off as if
you know what?
It's, not a big deal, right?
So a person should be able torecognize when you are being
vulnerable and you have sharedsomething sensitive and they
respond appropriately.
And if you don't want to dothat right away and they respond
appropriately.
And if you don't want to dothat right away, even start off
(06:46):
with something greater, likestart off with a situation in
Gaza.
How do you feel about it?
Right?
And if a person just continuesto be on their phone as you're
talking about Gaza, you know itwould be a major red flag, right
?
So you can assess a level ofempathy.
Number three is I would actuallyask them how do you navigate
through difficult situations,right?
So, imagine, ask them how doyou navigate through difficult
situations, right?
So imagine you have an employerthat just does not appreciate
(07:08):
the work that you do.
How would you respond to it?
Or if you have an employee thatworks under you that is
constantly on their phone,they're late for meetings and
not attending, how do youaddress this in a difficult
situation?
And see, you know what theyactually say?
To that, because I, eventually,what you want to identify is
have they communicated theirexpectations?
Are they setting people up forsuccess?
Have they given them the toolsthat they need to succeed?
(07:31):
And if they're expressingsimilar language, then the
conversation is going the rightway, but if it isn't, then
there's a problem that needs tobe identified.
So, through conversation,understanding how they navigate
through conflict, seeing howthey are in group settings,
seeing how they are in stressfulsituations.
These are great ways toidentify how emotionally
(07:51):
intelligent people are.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
It seems that this is strongly connected to
compatibility and assessingcompatibility between two
suitors right.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
I mean, I would say, like I said, if we can identify
it as a red flag, then you canmake that a part of
compatibility.
But I think it goes much, muchdeeper than that.
It's identifying a person thatgenuinely wants to have deep,
meaningful connections andrelationships.
Whether you get married to thisperson or not, you know, is
almost irrelevant, right?
(08:21):
How much work is this personwilling to put into their
relationships in general as awhole?
Yeah, so much deeper than that.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
My next question was in regards to emotional
intelligence.
It obviously it goes muchdeeper than that, but can you
give some examples of how we canassess that during the courting
phase, Because obviously wedon't have the luxury of
spending time with them?
You know, understanding whattheir triggers are, how they
(08:51):
handle stress, but there areways to assess that during, you
know, the courting phase.
So anything you can say on thatCan.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
I return the question to you and start off with who
says we don't have the abilityto do this in the courting phase
, Because I think there are alot of misconceptions in terms
of what's allowed and what's notallowed in the courting phase.
Right, so the generalprohibition still apply there
shouldn't be any physical touch,you shouldn't be alone with the
other person.
But everything else is prettymuch allowed as long as you have
(09:17):
the Wali's permission, right?
So, with that being said, toassess a stressful situation
that could be in a conversationbeing said, to assess a
stressful situation that couldbe in a conversation, that could
be, you know, presenting them apuzzle and you're like, hey,
there's this thousand piecepuzzle, let's try to build this
together and then see how theyrespond to that.
So that's a great way to assess.
(09:37):
And then, number two, when yougo out for your meetings, you
know, try to change it up.
Maybe not always have it atsomeone's house, but try to meet
up at, like, a really crowdedcoffee shop where you know the
service is going to be slow andthe customer service is not that
great.
How is this person going torespond to that?
Right, you know, one of thegreatest tests, and it's not
(09:58):
always possible to figure thisout, but if you can do this is
go to an area where there's adead spot on your internet
connection and then see how theyrespond to a dead spot to their
internet connection, Like whenpeople don't have connectivity,
you know.
It really shows how frustratedthey get and how they deal with
their frustration.
So I would say I don't thinkthe assumption is fair that we
(10:19):
don't have the ability to assessthese things, but I just think
we need to be a lot morecreative as to how we assess
them assess these things, but Ijust think we need to be a lot
more creative as to how weassess them.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Actually, a tip for the girls if you want to see how
patient he is, test him whenhe's hungry.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Oh God, Almost no man is going to pass that.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Almost no man is going to pass that.
Oh man, yeah.
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Visit us at halalmatchca andbook a free call with us.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Yeah, but you know, Sheikh, I'm really glad you
touched on this topic ofcourting according to the deen,
what's allowed, what's notallowed Because I feel there's
like a big misunderstandingabout it.
Sometimes it might result inpeople getting married before
they are able to fully assesscompatibility.
So I don't know, maybe, if youwant to talk a little bit about
(11:19):
this or if we should likepostpone it to another
conversation, whatever you feelcomfortable.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
I mean, I can have a basic generic conversation and
if you feel that there's adesire from your audience, later
on we can come back and discussit in more detail.
I would suggest the first thingthat we need to do, uh is,
number one is identify somelevel of attraction, right?
So you've seen the other person.
Is this person you knowdesirable to you?
At the very least, theyshouldn't be reprehensible to
(11:45):
you, right?
That's like the baseline thatyou should have.
Number two is assessingcompatibility, and assessing
compatibility would function intwo key ways.
Number one is learning how toask questions, and I feel a lot
of times people haven't learnedhow to do this.
So, as human beings, wenaturally are people pleasers.
So if you ask someone, do youpray five times a day, even
(12:07):
though they may not be doing soright now and it's not an
accusation of lying, just thehuman weakness of people
pleasing they're going to sayyes because they know that is
what you want to hear.
So a way to reframe a questionlike this is hey, can you please
tell me what your day at theoffice looks like, like hour by
hour?
How would you spend it?
And then, when the time forDhuhr comes, see what they're
(12:27):
doing at that time.
Right, if they're saying that,yeah, you know, I'm going to
take a break to go pray Dhuhrand then come back, very
positive sign.
If they completely skip over it, then that's something that you
can identify a furtherconversation in that you can ask
a second follow-up questionthat imagine both you and I we
go out to the park one day andwe're strolling, and in the
winter time, you know, salahtimes are very close.
(12:48):
What are we going to do forSalah at that time?
And pose like a question likethat, rather than asking do you
pray five times a day?
Which brings me to the secondcomponent, which is actually
coming up with a series oftopics to identify compatibility
.
And this is where I think a lotof self-work needs to be done,
(13:10):
where you need to understandwhat your values are, what are
important to you, what arenon-negotiables to you, and then
frame them as questions, right?
So, starting off with the Dean,what is important to you, what
is not negotiable to you?
Talking about the issue of kids, talking about the issue of
finances, talking about the roleof in-laws and family, talking
about health, talking abouthobbies and pastimes, talking
about friends, talking aboutexpectations from one another,
(13:33):
talking about things that annoyone another and are pet peeves.
Those are all importantconversations to have as a part
of the compatibility assessment.
So once you had a betterunderstanding of who you are,
then you can start posingquestions in that way.
And again, the emphasis on tryto avoid coming up with
questions where the other personcan anticipate what you want to
(13:54):
hear and then also be creativein creating scenarios where
there is no right answer.
I took this from Bab Ali, wherehe taught me asking a question,
are you more merciful or areyou more just?
Like what is the right answerover here?
Right?
And I think the way at least alot of men frame it, because
I've asked a lot of men thisthey're like justice is more
(14:16):
important.
Then I always respond do youwant Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta-A'la
to be just with you or mercifulwith you, right?
And then all of a suddenthey're like oh my God, you're
right, mercy is more importantthan that.
And then, similarly, I see theopposite with women.
When you ask this question,they're like mercy is more
important.
But I was like do you alwayswant people to take advantage of
you?
Then, like, if there's nojustice, that's what's gonna end
(14:36):
up happening, right?
So then a light bulb goes on intheir heads.
So that's you know how I wouldassess the questioning and
assessing compatibility, andthen doing this in safe spaces,
so ideally in your own homes,where people have access to the
room but you still have a levelof privacy.
(14:57):
And then, as you get morecomfortable, you know, meeting
in public spaces and seeing howpeople interact with you know
the challenges that we spokeabout earlier on.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Wonderful.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
No problem, inshallah .
In your experience, what?
And I'm assuming you comeacross a lot of cases where,
there you know, couples reachout to you regarding disputes
and other conflicts.
So what is the number one causefor the increasing rate of
divorce in your Muslim community?
There, would you say.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
You know, I've thought about this a lot and I
don't know if I can identify oneissue, but I would say, more
recently, what I've seen is whenthere's a breach of trust and
safety in the relationship, andthis is happening after like 20,
25 years of marriage, andyou're like man, subhanallah.
How is this happening?
(15:49):
Like you would anticipate, mostmarriages, most divorces, take
place within the first fiveyears, but now we're seeing this
surge of divorces that aretaking place after like 20, 25
plus years of marriage, and myassessment of those situations
is you know, there wereincidents that happened where a
person no longer felt safe andno longer felt they could trust
(16:09):
their partner anymore and thenthat led to a slippery slope of
breakdown in communication andthus the relationship eventually
breaks down after that.
So I would say that is like amore reoccurring theme.
But if we were to go back tothe traditional framework of
within the first five years, Iwould say oftentimes is they
just hurried too much into itand didn't realize how
(16:29):
incompatible they were when theygot married?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Yes, subhanallah, we say the same thing in our
workshops too that afterspeaking to so many clients and
the people that we interviewthat are divorced, 99% of the
cases is just simply due toincompatibility.
But people somehow justassociate divorce with abuse,
with neglect and things likethat.
But that's not always the case,yeah yeah, yeah, subhanallah.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
May Allah make it easy.
Ameen, ameen.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
What about financial compatibility?
Is there such thing or no?
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Yeah, 100%.
I think there have to be somany conversations around
compatibility and I'm not sureif this is like a taboo thing to
say on your podcast pleaseforgive me, it is but I would
suggest that couples in this dayand age should actively pursue
prenuptial agreements right now.
(17:27):
All of this conflict at thetime of divorce could be avoided
if we just spent time at thebeginning of the marriage to
have a prenuptial agreement.
And a lot of people may beworried does Islam actually
allow prenuptial agreements?
And the answer is yes, as longas the prenuptial agreements are
about you and your spouse andnot about the kids.
Like, there's no negotiation ofprenuptial agreements with
regards to kids in Islam, butwith regards to what you're
entitled to and how you canprotect yourself and your assets
, you're definitely allowed tonegotiate all of that in advance
(17:50):
.
So I would say that is animportant conversation to have
before marriage and that willactually help you understand are
you financially compatible ornot.
So financial compatibility in arelationship would be like
starting off with a basicquestion is the expectation that
the wife should work or not?
So in this day and age, a lotof women are going to school,
(18:11):
they are working.
So is the expectation that shewill be allowed to do so and she
can do so and then kind ofstart from there.
Number two is okay, if she isallowed to work and she is
working, is she expected tocontribute to the household
expenses?
And this is where I think atraditional understanding is
important Islamically, the manis responsible for everything
(18:32):
that is deemed a necessity,predominantly food, clothing and
shelter.
But understanding that housingis getting so expensive in our
day and age, a single incomehousehold can no longer sustain
itself.
So now, in this situation whena single income household can no
longer sustain itself, so now,in this situation when a single
income household can no longersustain itself, is the wife
expected to contribute?
(18:52):
And if she is expected tocontribute, how is this going to
work?
Is this coming out of her owngenerosity, or is this a debt
that the husband has to pay back?
Or is it offset by equity inthe house, like what is the
arrangement?
So I think having thosediscussions are very, very
important.
Number three, and this is whereI think financial literacy is
(19:12):
important what are we saving upour money for Hajj?
Buying a house?
Where do we stand on taking amortgage?
All of those things areimportant conversations.
How are we going to invest ourmoney right In the stock market,
in cryptocurrency, buying realestate?
These are very, very importantquestions to think about, right.
(19:35):
And then, what is our strategyfor budget and saving?
Perhaps that should have comeearlier on, but you know, can we
afford to buy thousand dollarshoes and bags, and you know,
ten thousand dollar watches formen?
And you know seventy thousanddollar sports cars?
Like, how is this going to work?
What are we going to bespending our money on?
What are we not going to bespending our money on?
(19:55):
And that's a conversation onbudgeting and saving.
So those are all importantthings to look at as we talk
about financial compatibility,and oftentimes you know, you
have someone that is very, verythrifty and then you have
someone that is the exactopposite, that is just like the
free spender.
When they come together, it's arecipe for disaster, because
the thrifty person is looking attheir credit card statement and
(20:17):
they're like we could havegotten rid of this, we could
have gotten this, we could havegotten rid of this.
Why are you spending so muchmoney?
Where the person is like justspending, they're like, yeah,
allah's given us so much andhe'll give us more, we can
continue to spend right um.
So understanding where youstand, stand on your
relationship with money is very,very important that's
interesting.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
you, you mentioned that example because what we see
over and over again, especiallywith girls, is is that they to
an extent take things to anextreme where they say you know
it's the guy's responsibility tomaintain and provide and if
there is a need to work andcontribute then I'll contribute.
(20:57):
But you know that's just takingthings out of context and it's
not taking into considerationthat, like you said, you know
that's just taking things out ofcontext and it's not taking
into consideration that, likeyou said, you know cost of
living is so high, things arejust so expensive nowadays.
So what would you say to a girlthat kind of approaches
marriage with that type ofmindset?
Speaker 3 (21:15):
I would say, with that type of mindset, it is
possible that your marriage maysurvive, but it definitely won't
thrive.
Right?
One of the most importantcharacteristics that we can have
as human beings is beinggenerous, and generosity is not
about financial generosity alone.
Being generous with your time,being generous with your words,
being generous with yourthoughts and this sort of frame
(21:35):
of mind is showing that thisperson is not generous with
their thoughts, not generouswith their words, not generous
with their times, let alone thefinances.
So I would say understand itlike this where a man will do
what he has to provide for hisfamily out of the pride that he
has, because he understands it'shis responsibility.
With that sort of stressunderstand when a person is
(21:57):
constantly stressed, it's verydifficult for a relationship to
thrive.
Number two is that he may beable to pay for your expenses,
but you know for a fact that youwant to go on vacation
somewhere nice once every year,once every two years.
He's not going to be able toafford that.
So if you still want to be ableto go on those vacations,
understand that you may have tocontribute, but reframe it that
(22:18):
you know what.
I'm taking my spouse and myfamily on this vacation.
One, it's going to be an act ofajr and generosity for me.
And number two, it's going toactually make the family tighter
and stronger.
And number three, it's going tooffset stress that my spouse is
feeling so that we can, youknow, have more calm time at
home that is less stressful,because finance is definitely
(22:41):
one of the main stress points inrelationships in this day and
age.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
SubhanAllah.
Sometimes people'sunderstanding of the deen, and
especially fiqh, is like blackor white and like, for example,
the other day we were talking toa very lovely girl and she
mentioned that right now she'snot thinking of working, but if
she would work then she wouldcontribute her, she would
(23:08):
allocate her salary to supportthe community instead of family
or her house.
So what would you say tosomeone Like because Islamically
, Sharia wise, it's not haram,right?
Speaker 3 (23:21):
But Well, I mean, I would say, under the general
pretext of the husband notstruggling.
You're right, it is halal andshe's allowed to do so.
But I would look at this from aseerah perspective, and even a
Quranic perspective, where thefirst thing that Allah tells us
in Surah Al-Tahrim قُوْأَنفُسَكُمْ وَأَحْلِيكُمْ نَوْرً
, nauru that save yourselves andyour families from the hellfire
(23:41):
Meaning that Sadaqah alwaysneeds to begin from home.
You can't start anywhere else.
Number two is that, islamicallyspeaking, the husband cannot
give Zakat to his wife becausehe is obliged to spend on her
and take care of her, whereasIslamically, it is allowed for
the wife to give Zakat to herhusband because she is not one
(24:02):
of the general recipients, onethat she is meant to provide for
and take care of.
And in the situation ofAbdullah bin Mas'ud, the Prophet
actually told his wife thatspend upon your husband, because
that is where your zakat shouldbegin.
Spend on your husband, becausethat is where your zakat should
begin.
So I would say, yeah, if wetake context out of the scenario
, it's a great, wonderful thingthat she wants to spend on the
(24:24):
community, but if your husbandis struggling and you're doing
well for yourself, start withyour own home first Make your
own life easier, make yourhusband's life easier and then,
inshallah, whatever extra youwant to spend on your community,
you can.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Bi'idhillah Al-aqrabuna awla bil-ma'roof
right Exactly 100%.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yeah, exactly 100% yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah, I love that you brought up the example of
Abdullah bin Mas'ud's wife,because she was the breadwinner
of the family and the Prophetdidn't scold her, didn't say
there was anything wrong withthat, and she financially
supported the entire family.
So there's that example that wecan take lessons from also.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Going back, Sheikh, to the topic of prenups.
What is the importance ofprenups when it comes to
marriage, Like?
Can you share a story of how aprenup was able to save a
marriage?
Speaker 3 (25:10):
I don't know if I can share a story of how a
prenuptial agreement saved amarriage, but I can show how it
prevented abuse at the end of amarriage, right?
So that is, I think, somethingthat's very important to look at
, where, if a marriage is meantto come to a close, we want to
make sure that we don't leave asenemies, particularly if there
(25:34):
are kids involved, right?
And what ends up happening is,when emotions are heightened,
shaitan will manipulate ouremotions.
And then, number two for somereason, we all will have this
bad friend that was financiallyabused at the end of their
marriage that will be telling usdo whatever you can to you know
, take whatever you can as muchas you can, and there will be
whispering in our ear as wellsubhanallah.
(25:55):
So then we find that people arewilling to compromise on their
islamic values and ethics.
So, for example, each person inIslam is meant to take what is
owed to them and what is ownedby them at the end of a marriage
.
But then, if we go to theWestern court system, all of a
sudden we have access to 50% ofwhat was earned.
(26:16):
So if the wife is a primarybreadwinner, all of a sudden the
husband gets access to that.
If the husband is a primarybreadwinner, then all of a
sudden the wife gets access tothat.
If the husband is a primarybreadwinner, then all of a
sudden the wife gets access tothat.
And islamically, something likethis 50 split is not allowed
holistically.
I think in certain cases it canbe allowed and we can evaluate
that, but as a holisticprinciple that's not the way
islam works, right?
(26:37):
So, that being said, aprenuptial agreement would
basically discuss in the case ofdivorce or dissolution of a
marriage.
This is what I would beentitled to and this is what
happens with the assets.
So there's no room for becomingenemies when we are already
upset.
And it's easy to become enemiesbecause we've already
negotiated this in advance andwe were doing this with a
(27:01):
logically clear mind.
Things weren't emotionallyheightened and it at least saves
a couple from being enemies,particularly when they're their
kids.
So I don't have any examples ofhow it saved a marriage, but I
definitely have examples of howit prevented the couple from
becoming enemies.
Um, in that situation, becauseeverything was discussed when
they were level-headedsubhanallah.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Speaking of-50, have you seen cases of like a divorce
that happened and there was noprenup that was signed before
and the wife decided not to takeadvantage of the 50-50 and just
abide by the ruling of Islam?
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Well, yeah, mashallah tabarakallah.
I mean, I think it's a misnomerto think that we don't have
righteous sisters in ourcommunity.
We have sisters that fear Allahsubhanahu wa ta'ala without a
shadow of a doubt, and these aresituations where their husbands
were even abusive of them andthey're like you know what?
I'm going to leave it up toAllah subhanahu wa ta'ala to
decide.
I want to make sure that I'mnot doing anything wrong and
(27:57):
then Allah subhanahu wa ta'alajudgment.
So, without a shadow of a doubt, I think such mashallah sisters
do exist, without a shadow of adoubt.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Alhamdulillah, because it's a difficult test
Like you have an opportunity totake 50% of your house earning
your husband's earnings and youdecide no.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
I want to have taqwa.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
So it is a big test, mashallah.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Without a shadow of a doubt, it is a huge test.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
I wanted to go back to the example of Abdullah bin
Masood's wife, because somethingthat I've been wrestling with
as we've been developing ourworkshop is wrestling this
example of the wife being thebreadwinner and the caretaker
with the requirement of the manproviding for his family.
(28:39):
And obviously, when you're inthe courtship phase, you can't
just bring up this example ofAbdullah bin Musawwad's wife and
say oh, by the way, you know,it's okay for the wife to be the
breadwinner, but it is thislife that we're allowed.
So how do we reconcile thesetwo things without making it
seem like they're contradictory?
Speaker 3 (28:57):
So I would frame it this way Is a person allowed to
pray sitting down right?
And the answer to that questionis if you're not able to stand,
yes, you are allowed to praysitting down.
Similarly, in situations wherethe man cannot be the
breadwinner for whateverextraneous circumstances, in
that sort of situation, a womanis allowed to be the breadwinner
(29:17):
.
But understand that this willcreate a new dynamic that is
outside of what we would callthe Islamic norm.
The Islamic norm is that the manis meant to provide, and this
is what brings a sense ofself-worth to him.
He feels valued, he feelscontributing as long as he's
providing.
But now that he's beingprovided for, does a man's ego
(29:41):
work in such a way where he canstill retain his masculinity and
, you know, feel as if he'scontributing to the relationship
while he's not providing?
Right?
I think that it has a hugeimpact.
So I would say the norm is thatthe man is meant to be the
provider and in extraneouscircumstances where there is a
need for it, then yes, she canbecome the breadwinner and
(30:03):
there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
So in the case of the man not being able to provide,
does that take away from hisqiwamah?
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Great question.
So Imam Al-Qurthibi, when hetalks about, he says that the
reason why the raja is qiawwamupon the woman is because what
allah mentions in the secondpart of the verse, that they
make nafaka on top of the woman.
So if he's no longer making thenafaka, the understanding is
(30:33):
the one that makes the nafaka isthe qawwam in the situation.
So he had an interestingopinion where, you know, the
woman can become qawwam upon thehusband.
Uh, but he was in the minorityin this situation.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Interesting Wow.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
We threw at you all the difficult questions.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
I mean, I'm hoping what people take away from this
is that marriage is one of thosesituations where we have
general ideas of what is rightand wrong and then as a couple
we need to navigate in betweenthat.
Right, there's not one answerthat is definitely right for
every couple.
Right, there's generalguidelines.
Work within those parameters.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
I think if we redirect our mindset about
marriage instead of like what'smy rights and what are my
responsibilities and what'syours, what can I gain?
How can I gain more?
What can I gain, how can I gainmore Instead of that we just
look at marriage as a thirdentity, like a plant that we're
(31:30):
both working on making it growin a healthy way, and just have
a concept of rahmah and mawadahin the marriage, then less
problems will like we'll seeless problems in marriages.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
But how about if we reframe it that, instead of
being a third entity, it is ajoint entity or it is our entity
?
It is us, right, if we use ourmarriage to define ourselves,
right?
So what defines us as humanbeings?
We are, first and foremost,servants and slaves of Allah,
subh'anahu Wa Ta-A'la.
Then we are children to ourparents and then we are spouses
(31:59):
to our spouses, right?
And this is a part of our jointidentity.
So any harm that I do to myspouse, I'm doing to myself as
well, and you have to understandthat.
There's no.
I need to gain the upper hand,because how do you gain the
upper hand against yourself,like if you don't allow your
mind to think like that.
Then you don't think about thosethings, right?
(32:19):
It's like everything that I dois for my own personal
betterment.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Interesting, interesting.
Okay, Sheikh, our listeners aremajority of them, if not all
they are single Muslims.
What can you tell them?
A piece of advice, Any lastingwords?
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Okay.
So advice for people that arelooking to get married.
Number one focus on yourrelationship with Allah,
subh'anahu Wa Ta-A'la, becausethat will directly manifest in
the rizq that you receive fromAllah, subh'anahu Wa Ta-A'la, if
sins become an impediment inistighfar and good deeds open up
the doors of rizq.
Number two is spend a lot oftime understanding who yourself
are, and this will help youchoose a good spouse for
(32:59):
yourself.
If you don't know who you are,you're not going to be able to
understand what the red flagsare that you shouldn't negotiate
on.
Number three, I would suggestuse every avenue and every
opportunity, right.
There is this concept of modestyin Islam that should be abided
by, but using the internet doesnot contradict your modesty.
(33:20):
Using an app does notcontradict your modesty.
The way you interact withpeople, that is what may
contradict your modesty, right.
So, using the avenues thatAllah, subh'anahu Wa Ta-A'la has
given you, try to open up yourminds to using them, even though
they may not be conventionalmeans.
And the fourth and last pointis with regards to helping other
people get married, right?
The Prophet Sall that whoevermakes dua for their brother and
(33:43):
sister in their absence, theangels say ameen, and for you as
well.
And then, likewise, sometimesyou may come across a person.
They're a great person, butyou're just not compatible with
them.
But you know a sister, that youknow what maybe is compatible.
Try to make that connection andif you help others get married,
then Allah will help you getmarried as well.
So, using this spiritualdynamic to help yourself get
(34:05):
married as well Beautiful.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
So even a single person can become a matchmaker.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Yeah, of course, anyone can be a matchmaker.
Like, matchmaking is a gooddeed.
Any person can do a good deed,inshallah.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Inshallah yeah it was amazing I it was amazing.
I didn't even know that theProphet's marriages more than
one of his marriages actuallyhappened through a matchmaker.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Oh, subhanallah, yeah , yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
It was amazing Sheikh , thank you so much for your
time.
This was very, very, verybeautiful.
We enjoyed our time with you.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
And again I'm so sorry for the internet troubles
man, I'm so diligent with thosesort of things, but that was
completely beyond my control.
So diligent with those sort ofthings, but I was completely
beyond my control.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Forgive me, it happens to the best of us.
Jazakumullah khair, thank you,our listeners, and, inshallah,
we'll see you in the nextepisode.
Assalamu alaikum.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Assalamu alaikum, wa alaikum assalam Warahmatullahi
wabarakatuh.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Hey, if you have a story to tell, we'd love to have
you on here.
Assalamu alaikum, I'm Hiba.
And I'm Zaid, you're listeningto Diary of a Matchmaker.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
A podcast that will take you into our world as
matchmakers.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
We'll share our experiences and offer advice for
the single Muslim.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
So let's dive in.
Bismillah.
Assalamu alaikum everyone.
This is Zaid, and on the othermic is my wife and co-host, hiba
, and we're also honored to haveour guest here, sheikh Naveed.
Just a quick intro of SheikhNaveed.
He is a Canadian Imam with abackground in Islamic studies
(00:37):
from Medina University, where hecompleted an associate's degree
in the Arabic language and abachelor's in Islamic law.
He is an imam for IslamicInformation Society of Calgary
and also the director of publicrelations at Al-Maghrib
Institute.
I hope I got the introductioncorrect, sheikh.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Introduction was great.
Just a small touch up on thepronunciation Naveed, not Naveed
.
Naveed, naveed.
Okay, gotcha.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I was wondering about the A, the extra A.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
No worries, no worries, all good, all good.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Welcome, Sheikh.
Thank you for accepting ourinvitation.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
No.
Jazakum Allah Khairan forhaving me.
It's an absolute honor andpleasure to be in your company
today.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
So we took some time to go through a lot of your
content and the one thing thatreally stood out to us was your
lengthy um youtube series onemotional intelligence, which is
something that, um, I feelisn't really touched upon um
much when it comes to uh topicsin um regarding islam and uh and
islamic history.
So I just want to and Islamichistory, so I just want to kind
(01:49):
of dive into that right now.
So what is emotionalintelligence from an Islamic
perspective, excellent.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
So emotional intelligence basically consists
of four things.
It's understanding your ownemotional state, what triggered
it, how you can change it, andthen how you can utilize this
information to basically improveyour relationship with whoever
you're interested in improvingyour relationship in, and you
counter that information as well.
So what is their currentemotional state, what are their
(02:15):
triggers, what are you trying toget to?
And then how do you use thatinformation to create a goal
within the relationship.
So that's how I understandemotional intelligence from a
relationship standpoint.
From an Islamic standpoint,it's how do you use this
information of emotions to getpeople to where they need to be
(02:37):
in the relationship with Allah,subhanahu wa ta'ala, in their
personal goals and ambitions,but, most importantly, to make
Jannah their ultimate motivation.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
So that's interesting , you frame it that way.
So how can we apply that samesort of framework when we're
talking about searching for apotential spouse?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Excellent.
So when we're talking aboutsearching for a potential spouse
, you know we always talk aboutwhat are the red flags that you
should be looking for.
So I would flip the script andsay if you can understand what
emotional intelligence is, thentry to identify where is the
individual that you're engagingwith?
With regards to emotionalintelligence, if they have a lot
of work to do, I wouldpersonally consider that a red
(03:19):
flag.
Up and until they do that work,I always tell people don't go
into a relationship thinkingthat you have the ability to
change people.
There's a reason why Allah,subh'anahu Wa Ta-A'la, tells us
about the father of IbrahimAlayhi Salaam, the son of Nuh
Alayhi Salaam, the wife of LutAlayhi Salaam, because you don't
want to go into a situationwhere you have to change a
person.
If any change should take place, number one, it should be
(03:40):
self-initiated and that processshould have made drastic
progress before the relationshipis official, right, and if that
takes place, then, bismillah,move forward.
But if the person's like youknow what I'll change after
marriage.
People don't change in the waythat you anticipate and expect
them to change after marriage.
So I think if you're able toidentify emotional intelligence
(04:00):
and what a lack thereof lookslike.
I would consider that a majorred flag in the courting process
.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
SubhanAllah.
This reminds me of somethingSheikh Mahad from Sohba
Institute always says don'tmarry potential, marry reality.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Oh 100%.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
You don't want to, like you said, you don't want to
marry someone with thecondition that they might change
right.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Yeah, it's interesting because when I first
think about emotionalintelligence, the main thing I
think of is empathy.
Right?
Does this person have somedegree of empathy?
Can they, you know, putthemselves in another person's
shoes?
But of course, it's much deeperthan that, as you just
explained here.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
A hundred percent.
I always like to give thisexample of how men and women
deal with stress, and I knowthis is like a gross
generalization, but a husbandcomes home from work and he's
really stressed out and the wifeis like you know what, let me
sit him down and let's talkabout his feelings.
She's like tell me about yourfeelings and the husband's like
pulling his hair out.
How do I get?
Speaker 2 (04:58):
out of this situation , and then you flip the script.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Husband comes home and the wife is really stressed
out and he's like you know what,when I'm stressed out, I like
to be left alone to process myemotions.
So let me leave her alone toprocess her emotions and she's
like what type of inconsideratehusband did I marry?
He doesn't even care that I'mupset, right?
So this level of emotionalintelligence, at the most basic
level, of how we understandstress and deal with stress, can
(05:22):
really help mitigate anymisunderstandings in
relationships.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Right Also understanding how different
genders operate 100%psychologically, of course, yeah
.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
So the secret word here, sheikh, is what you said
to identify emotionalintelligence.
Now that's the big question howto do that.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yeah, I mean, identifying emotional
intelligence can be prettytricky, but I would say a lot of
it starts with your ownself-awareness, right?
So are you self-aware in termsof your emotional states and
what triggers you, and then howto improve your emotional states
?
It starts with that, and onceyou get a habit of identifying
your own emotional states andyour own triggers, then you're
able to identify, you know howpeople respond to certain things
(06:04):
, what their emotional statesare, what their triggers are and
what you're trying to do.
Number two you know, I thinkZaid hit the nail on the head.
Oftentimes we affiliateemotional intelligence with
empathy and there is a strongcorrelation there.
But that's the second thingthat I would look at is how
empathetic are they?
Right?
Like one of the leastattractable and desirable things
(06:25):
that you can see in a person isyou share something very
sensitive and very intimate, butthey just brush it off as if
you know what?
It's, not a big deal, right?
So a person should be able torecognize when you are being
vulnerable and you have sharedsomething sensitive and they
respond appropriately.
And if you don't want to dothat right away and they respond
appropriately.
And if you don't want to dothat right away, even start off
(06:46):
with something greater, likestart off with a situation in
Gaza.
How do you feel about it?
Right?
And if a person just continuesto be on their phone as you're
talking about Gaza, you know itwould be a major red flag, right
?
So you can assess a level ofempathy.
Number three is I would actuallyask them how do you navigate
through difficult situations,right?
So, imagine, ask them how doyou navigate through difficult
situations, right?
So imagine you have an employerthat just does not appreciate
(07:08):
the work that you do.
How would you respond to it?
Or if you have an employee thatworks under you that is
constantly on their phone,they're late for meetings and
not attending, how do youaddress this in a difficult
situation?
And see, you know what theyactually say?
To that, because I, eventually,what you want to identify is
have they communicated theirexpectations?
Are they setting people up forsuccess?
Have they given them the toolsthat they need to succeed?
(07:31):
And if they're expressingsimilar language, then the
conversation is going the rightway, but if it isn't, then
there's a problem that needs tobe identified.
So, through conversation,understanding how they navigate
through conflict, seeing howthey are in group settings,
seeing how they are in stressfulsituations.
These are great ways toidentify how emotionally
(07:51):
intelligent people are.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
It seems that this is strongly connected to
compatibility and assessingcompatibility between two
suitors right.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
I mean, I would say, like I said, if we can identify
it as a red flag, then you canmake that a part of
compatibility.
But I think it goes much, muchdeeper than that.
It's identifying a person thatgenuinely wants to have deep,
meaningful connections andrelationships.
Whether you get married to thisperson or not, you know, is
almost irrelevant, right?
(08:21):
How much work is this personwilling to put into their
relationships in general as awhole?
Yeah, so much deeper than that.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
My next question was in regards to emotional
intelligence.
It obviously it goes muchdeeper than that, but can you
give some examples of how we canassess that during the courting
phase, Because obviously wedon't have the luxury of
spending time with them?
You know, understanding whattheir triggers are, how they
(08:51):
handle stress, but there areways to assess that during, you
know, the courting phase.
So anything you can say on thatCan.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
I return the question to you and start off with who
says we don't have the abilityto do this in the courting phase
, Because I think there are alot of misconceptions in terms
of what's allowed and what's notallowed in the courting phase.
Right, so the generalprohibition still apply there
shouldn't be any physical touch,you shouldn't be alone with the
other person.
But everything else is prettymuch allowed as long as you have
(09:17):
the Wali's permission, right?
So, with that being said, toassess a stressful situation
that could be in a conversationbeing said, to assess a
stressful situation that couldbe in a conversation, that could
be, you know, presenting them apuzzle and you're like, hey,
there's this thousand piecepuzzle, let's try to build this
together and then see how theyrespond to that.
So that's a great way to assess.
(09:37):
And then, number two, when yougo out for your meetings, you
know, try to change it up.
Maybe not always have it atsomeone's house, but try to meet
up at, like, a really crowdedcoffee shop where you know the
service is going to be slow andthe customer service is not that
great.
How is this person going torespond to that?
Right, you know, one of thegreatest tests, and it's not
(09:58):
always possible to figure thisout, but if you can do this is
go to an area where there's adead spot on your internet
connection and then see how theyrespond to a dead spot to their
internet connection, Like whenpeople don't have connectivity,
you know.
It really shows how frustratedthey get and how they deal with
their frustration.
So I would say I don't thinkthe assumption is fair that we
(10:19):
don't have the ability to assessthese things, but I just think
we need to be a lot morecreative as to how we assess
them assess these things, but Ijust think we need to be a lot
more creative as to how weassess them.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Actually, a tip for the girls if you want to see how
patient he is, test him whenhe's hungry.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Oh God, Almost no man is going to pass that.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Almost no man is going to pass that.
Oh man, yeah.
If you're overwhelmed andburdened and just don't know
where to seek help, let us helpyou.
We can be your personalmatchmakers.
Visit us at halalmatchca andbook a free call with us.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Yeah, but you know, Sheikh, I'm really glad you
touched on this topic ofcourting according to the deen,
what's allowed, what's notallowed Because I feel there's
like a big misunderstandingabout it.
Sometimes it might result inpeople getting married before
they are able to fully assesscompatibility.
So I don't know, maybe, if youwant to talk a little bit about
(11:19):
this or if we should likepostpone it to another
conversation, whatever you feelcomfortable.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
I mean, I can have a basic generic conversation and
if you feel that there's adesire from your audience, later
on we can come back and discussit in more detail.
I would suggest the first thingthat we need to do, uh is,
number one is identify somelevel of attraction, right?
So you've seen the other person.
Is this person you knowdesirable to you?
At the very least, theyshouldn't be reprehensible to
(11:45):
you, right?
That's like the baseline thatyou should have.
Number two is assessingcompatibility, and assessing
compatibility would function intwo key ways.
Number one is learning how toask questions, and I feel a lot
of times people haven't learnedhow to do this.
So, as human beings, wenaturally are people pleasers.
So if you ask someone, do youpray five times a day, even
(12:07):
though they may not be doing soright now and it's not an
accusation of lying, just thehuman weakness of people
pleasing they're going to sayyes because they know that is
what you want to hear.
So a way to reframe a questionlike this is hey, can you please
tell me what your day at theoffice looks like, like hour by
hour?
How would you spend it?
And then, when the time forDhuhr comes, see what they're
(12:27):
doing at that time.
Right, if they're saying that,yeah, you know, I'm going to
take a break to go pray Dhuhrand then come back, very
positive sign.
If they completely skip over it, then that's something that you
can identify a furtherconversation in that you can ask
a second follow-up questionthat imagine both you and I we
go out to the park one day andwe're strolling, and in the
winter time, you know, salahtimes are very close.
(12:48):
What are we going to do forSalah at that time?
And pose like a question likethat, rather than asking do you
pray five times a day?
Which brings me to the secondcomponent, which is actually
coming up with a series oftopics to identify compatibility
.
And this is where I think a lotof self-work needs to be done,
(13:10):
where you need to understandwhat your values are, what are
important to you, what arenon-negotiables to you, and then
frame them as questions, right?
So, starting off with the Dean,what is important to you, what
is not negotiable to you?
Talking about the issue of kids, talking about the issue of
finances, talking about the roleof in-laws and family, talking
about health, talking abouthobbies and pastimes, talking
about friends, talking aboutexpectations from one another,
(13:33):
talking about things that annoyone another and are pet peeves.
Those are all importantconversations to have as a part
of the compatibility assessment.
So once you had a betterunderstanding of who you are,
then you can start posingquestions in that way.
And again, the emphasis on tryto avoid coming up with
questions where the other personcan anticipate what you want to
(13:54):
hear and then also be creativein creating scenarios where
there is no right answer.
I took this from Bab Ali, wherehe taught me asking a question,
are you more merciful or areyou more just?
Like what is the right answerover here?
Right?
And I think the way at least alot of men frame it, because
I've asked a lot of men thisthey're like justice is more
(14:16):
important.
Then I always respond do youwant Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta-A'la
to be just with you or mercifulwith you, right?
And then all of a suddenthey're like oh my God, you're
right, mercy is more importantthan that.
And then, similarly, I see theopposite with women.
When you ask this question,they're like mercy is more
important.
But I was like do you alwayswant people to take advantage of
you?
Then, like, if there's nojustice, that's what's gonna end
(14:36):
up happening, right?
So then a light bulb goes on intheir heads.
So that's you know how I wouldassess the questioning and
assessing compatibility, andthen doing this in safe spaces,
so ideally in your own homes,where people have access to the
room but you still have a levelof privacy.
(14:57):
And then, as you get morecomfortable, you know, meeting
in public spaces and seeing howpeople interact with you know
the challenges that we spokeabout earlier on.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Wonderful.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
No problem, inshallah .
In your experience, what?
And I'm assuming you comeacross a lot of cases where,
there you know, couples reachout to you regarding disputes
and other conflicts.
So what is the number one causefor the increasing rate of
divorce in your Muslim community?
There, would you say.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
You know, I've thought about this a lot and I
don't know if I can identify oneissue, but I would say, more
recently, what I've seen is whenthere's a breach of trust and
safety in the relationship, andthis is happening after like 20,
25 years of marriage, andyou're like man, subhanallah.
How is this happening?
(15:49):
Like you would anticipate, mostmarriages, most divorces, take
place within the first fiveyears, but now we're seeing this
surge of divorces that aretaking place after like 20, 25
plus years of marriage, and myassessment of those situations
is you know, there wereincidents that happened where a
person no longer felt safe andno longer felt they could trust
(16:09):
their partner anymore and thenthat led to a slippery slope of
breakdown in communication andthus the relationship eventually
breaks down after that.
So I would say that is like amore reoccurring theme.
But if we were to go back tothe traditional framework of
within the first five years, Iwould say oftentimes is they
just hurried too much into itand didn't realize how
(16:29):
incompatible they were when theygot married?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Yes, subhanallah, we say the same thing in our
workshops too that afterspeaking to so many clients and
the people that we interviewthat are divorced, 99% of the
cases is just simply due toincompatibility.
But people somehow justassociate divorce with abuse,
with neglect and things likethat.
But that's not always the case,yeah yeah, yeah, subhanallah.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
May Allah make it easy.
Ameen, ameen.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
What about financial compatibility?
Is there such thing or no?
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Yeah, 100%.
I think there have to be somany conversations around
compatibility and I'm not sureif this is like a taboo thing to
say on your podcast pleaseforgive me, it is but I would
suggest that couples in this dayand age should actively pursue
prenuptial agreements right now.
(17:27):
All of this conflict at thetime of divorce could be avoided
if we just spent time at thebeginning of the marriage to
have a prenuptial agreement.
And a lot of people may beworried does Islam actually
allow prenuptial agreements?
And the answer is yes, as longas the prenuptial agreements are
about you and your spouse andnot about the kids.
Like, there's no negotiation ofprenuptial agreements with
regards to kids in Islam, butwith regards to what you're
entitled to and how you canprotect yourself and your assets
, you're definitely allowed tonegotiate all of that in advance
(17:50):
.
So I would say that is animportant conversation to have
before marriage and that willactually help you understand are
you financially compatible ornot.
So financial compatibility in arelationship would be like
starting off with a basicquestion is the expectation that
the wife should work or not?
So in this day and age, a lotof women are going to school,
(18:11):
they are working.
So is the expectation that shewill be allowed to do so and she
can do so and then kind ofstart from there.
Number two is okay, if she isallowed to work and she is
working, is she expected tocontribute to the household
expenses?
And this is where I think atraditional understanding is
important Islamically, the manis responsible for everything
(18:32):
that is deemed a necessity,predominantly food, clothing and
shelter.
But understanding that housingis getting so expensive in our
day and age, a single incomehousehold can no longer sustain
itself.
So now, in this situation whena single income household can no
longer sustain itself, so now,in this situation when a single
income household can no longersustain itself, is the wife
expected to contribute?
(18:52):
And if she is expected tocontribute, how is this going to
work?
Is this coming out of her owngenerosity, or is this a debt
that the husband has to pay back?
Or is it offset by equity inthe house, like what is the
arrangement?
So I think having thosediscussions are very, very
important.
Number three, and this is whereI think financial literacy is
(19:12):
important what are we saving upour money for Hajj?
Buying a house?
Where do we stand on taking amortgage?
All of those things areimportant conversations.
How are we going to invest ourmoney right In the stock market,
in cryptocurrency, buying realestate?
These are very, very importantquestions to think about, right.
(19:35):
And then, what is our strategyfor budget and saving?
Perhaps that should have comeearlier on, but you know, can we
afford to buy thousand dollarshoes and bags, and you know,
ten thousand dollar watches formen?
And you know seventy thousanddollar sports cars?
Like, how is this going to work?
What are we going to bespending our money on?
What are we not going to bespending our money on?
(19:55):
And that's a conversation onbudgeting and saving.
So those are all importantthings to look at as we talk
about financial compatibility,and oftentimes you know, you
have someone that is very, verythrifty and then you have
someone that is the exactopposite, that is just like the
free spender.
When they come together, it's arecipe for disaster, because
the thrifty person is looking attheir credit card statement and
(20:17):
they're like we could havegotten rid of this, we could
have gotten this, we could havegotten rid of this.
Why are you spending so muchmoney?
Where the person is like justspending, they're like, yeah,
allah's given us so much andhe'll give us more, we can
continue to spend right um.
So understanding where youstand, stand on your
relationship with money is very,very important that's
interesting.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
you, you mentioned that example because what we see
over and over again, especiallywith girls, is is that they to
an extent take things to anextreme where they say you know
it's the guy's responsibility tomaintain and provide and if
there is a need to work andcontribute then I'll contribute.
(20:57):
But you know that's just takingthings out of context and it's
not taking into considerationthat, like you said, you know
that's just taking things out ofcontext and it's not taking
into consideration that, likeyou said, you know cost of
living is so high, things arejust so expensive nowadays.
So what would you say to a girlthat kind of approaches
marriage with that type ofmindset?
Speaker 3 (21:15):
I would say, with that type of mindset, it is
possible that your marriage maysurvive, but it definitely won't
thrive.
Right?
One of the most importantcharacteristics that we can have
as human beings is beinggenerous, and generosity is not
about financial generosity alone.
Being generous with your time,being generous with your words,
being generous with yourthoughts and this sort of frame
(21:35):
of mind is showing that thisperson is not generous with
their thoughts, not generouswith their words, not generous
with their times, let alone thefinances.
So I would say understand itlike this where a man will do
what he has to provide for hisfamily out of the pride that he
has, because he understands it'shis responsibility.
With that sort of stressunderstand when a person is
(21:57):
constantly stressed, it's verydifficult for a relationship to
thrive.
Number two is that he may beable to pay for your expenses,
but you know for a fact that youwant to go on vacation
somewhere nice once every year,once every two years.
He's not going to be able toafford that.
So if you still want to be ableto go on those vacations,
understand that you may have tocontribute, but reframe it that
(22:18):
you know what.
I'm taking my spouse and myfamily on this vacation.
One, it's going to be an act ofajr and generosity for me.
And number two, it's going toactually make the family tighter
and stronger.
And number three, it's going tooffset stress that my spouse is
feeling so that we can, youknow, have more calm time at
home that is less stressful,because finance is definitely
(22:41):
one of the main stress points inrelationships in this day and
age.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
SubhanAllah.
Sometimes people'sunderstanding of the deen, and
especially fiqh, is like blackor white and like, for example,
the other day we were talking toa very lovely girl and she
mentioned that right now she'snot thinking of working, but if
she would work then she wouldcontribute her, she would
(23:08):
allocate her salary to supportthe community instead of family
or her house.
So what would you say tosomeone Like because Islamically
, Sharia wise, it's not haram,right?
Speaker 3 (23:21):
But Well, I mean, I would say, under the general
pretext of the husband notstruggling.
You're right, it is halal andshe's allowed to do so.
But I would look at this from aseerah perspective, and even a
Quranic perspective, where thefirst thing that Allah tells us
in Surah Al-Tahrim قُوْأَنفُسَكُمْ وَأَحْلِيكُمْ نَوْرً
, nauru that save yourselves andyour families from the hellfire
(23:41):
Meaning that Sadaqah alwaysneeds to begin from home.
You can't start anywhere else.
Number two is that, islamicallyspeaking, the husband cannot
give Zakat to his wife becausehe is obliged to spend on her
and take care of her, whereasIslamically, it is allowed for
the wife to give Zakat to herhusband because she is not one
(24:02):
of the general recipients, onethat she is meant to provide for
and take care of.
And in the situation ofAbdullah bin Mas'ud, the Prophet
actually told his wife thatspend upon your husband, because
that is where your zakat shouldbegin.
Spend on your husband, becausethat is where your zakat should
begin.
So I would say, yeah, if wetake context out of the scenario
, it's a great, wonderful thingthat she wants to spend on the
(24:24):
community, but if your husbandis struggling and you're doing
well for yourself, start withyour own home first Make your
own life easier, make yourhusband's life easier and then,
inshallah, whatever extra youwant to spend on your community,
you can.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Bi'idhillah Al-aqrabuna awla bil-ma'roof
right Exactly 100%.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yeah, exactly 100% yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah, I love that you brought up the example of
Abdullah bin Mas'ud's wife,because she was the breadwinner
of the family and the Prophetdidn't scold her, didn't say
there was anything wrong withthat, and she financially
supported the entire family.
So there's that example that wecan take lessons from also.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Going back, Sheikh, to the topic of prenups.
What is the importance ofprenups when it comes to
marriage, Like?
Can you share a story of how aprenup was able to save a
marriage?
Speaker 3 (25:10):
I don't know if I can share a story of how a
prenuptial agreement saved amarriage, but I can show how it
prevented abuse at the end of amarriage, right?
So that is, I think, somethingthat's very important to look at
, where, if a marriage is meantto come to a close, we want to
make sure that we don't leave asenemies, particularly if there
(25:34):
are kids involved, right?
And what ends up happening is,when emotions are heightened,
shaitan will manipulate ouremotions.
And then, number two for somereason, we all will have this
bad friend that was financiallyabused at the end of their
marriage that will be telling usdo whatever you can to you know
, take whatever you can as muchas you can, and there will be
whispering in our ear as wellsubhanallah.
(25:55):
So then we find that people arewilling to compromise on their
islamic values and ethics.
So, for example, each person inIslam is meant to take what is
owed to them and what is ownedby them at the end of a marriage
.
But then, if we go to theWestern court system, all of a
sudden we have access to 50% ofwhat was earned.
(26:16):
So if the wife is a primarybreadwinner, all of a sudden the
husband gets access to that.
If the husband is a primarybreadwinner, then all of a
sudden the wife gets access tothat.
If the husband is a primarybreadwinner, then all of a
sudden the wife gets access tothat.
And islamically, something likethis 50 split is not allowed
holistically.
I think in certain cases it canbe allowed and we can evaluate
that, but as a holisticprinciple that's not the way
islam works, right?
(26:37):
So, that being said, aprenuptial agreement would
basically discuss in the case ofdivorce or dissolution of a
marriage.
This is what I would beentitled to and this is what
happens with the assets.
So there's no room for becomingenemies when we are already
upset.
And it's easy to become enemiesbecause we've already
negotiated this in advance andwe were doing this with a
(27:01):
logically clear mind.
Things weren't emotionallyheightened and it at least saves
a couple from being enemies,particularly when they're their
kids.
So I don't have any examples ofhow it saved a marriage, but I
definitely have examples of howit prevented the couple from
becoming enemies.
Um, in that situation, becauseeverything was discussed when
they were level-headedsubhanallah.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Speaking of-50, have you seen cases of like a divorce
that happened and there was noprenup that was signed before
and the wife decided not to takeadvantage of the 50-50 and just
abide by the ruling of Islam?
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Well, yeah, mashallah tabarakallah.
I mean, I think it's a misnomerto think that we don't have
righteous sisters in ourcommunity.
We have sisters that fear Allahsubhanahu wa ta'ala without a
shadow of a doubt, and these aresituations where their husbands
were even abusive of them andthey're like you know what?
I'm going to leave it up toAllah subhanahu wa ta'ala to
decide.
I want to make sure that I'mnot doing anything wrong and
(27:57):
then Allah subhanahu wa ta'alajudgment.
So, without a shadow of a doubt, I think such mashallah sisters
do exist, without a shadow of adoubt.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Alhamdulillah, because it's a difficult test
Like you have an opportunity totake 50% of your house earning
your husband's earnings and youdecide no.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
I want to have taqwa.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
So it is a big test, mashallah.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Without a shadow of a doubt, it is a huge test.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
I wanted to go back to the example of Abdullah bin
Masood's wife, because somethingthat I've been wrestling with
as we've been developing ourworkshop is wrestling this
example of the wife being thebreadwinner and the caretaker
with the requirement of the manproviding for his family.
(28:39):
And obviously, when you're inthe courtship phase, you can't
just bring up this example ofAbdullah bin Musawwad's wife and
say oh, by the way, you know,it's okay for the wife to be the
breadwinner, but it is thislife that we're allowed.
So how do we reconcile thesetwo things without making it
seem like they're contradictory?
Speaker 3 (28:57):
So I would frame it this way Is a person allowed to
pray sitting down right?
And the answer to that questionis if you're not able to stand,
yes, you are allowed to praysitting down.
Similarly, in situations wherethe man cannot be the
breadwinner for whateverextraneous circumstances, in
that sort of situation, a womanis allowed to be the breadwinner
(29:17):
.
But understand that this willcreate a new dynamic that is
outside of what we would callthe Islamic norm.
The Islamic norm is that the manis meant to provide, and this
is what brings a sense ofself-worth to him.
He feels valued, he feelscontributing as long as he's
providing.
But now that he's beingprovided for, does a man's ego
(29:41):
work in such a way where he canstill retain his masculinity and
, you know, feel as if he'scontributing to the relationship
while he's not providing?
Right?
I think that it has a hugeimpact.
So I would say the norm is thatthe man is meant to be the
provider and in extraneouscircumstances where there is a
need for it, then yes, she canbecome the breadwinner and
(30:03):
there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
So in the case of the man not being able to provide,
does that take away from hisqiwamah?
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Great question.
So Imam Al-Qurthibi, when hetalks about, he says that the
reason why the raja is qiawwamupon the woman is because what
allah mentions in the secondpart of the verse, that they
make nafaka on top of the woman.
So if he's no longer making thenafaka, the understanding is
(30:33):
the one that makes the nafaka isthe qawwam in the situation.
So he had an interestingopinion where, you know, the
woman can become qawwam upon thehusband.
Uh, but he was in the minorityin this situation.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Interesting Wow.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
We threw at you all the difficult questions.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
I mean, I'm hoping what people take away from this
is that marriage is one of thosesituations where we have
general ideas of what is rightand wrong and then as a couple
we need to navigate in betweenthat.
Right, there's not one answerthat is definitely right for
every couple.
Right, there's generalguidelines.
Work within those parameters.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
I think if we redirect our mindset about
marriage instead of like what'smy rights and what are my
responsibilities and what'syours, what can I gain?
How can I gain more?
What can I gain, how can I gainmore Instead of that we just
look at marriage as a thirdentity, like a plant that we're
(31:30):
both working on making it growin a healthy way, and just have
a concept of rahmah and mawadahin the marriage, then less
problems will like we'll seeless problems in marriages.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
But how about if we reframe it that, instead of
being a third entity, it is ajoint entity or it is our entity
?
It is us, right, if we use ourmarriage to define ourselves,
right?
So what defines us as humanbeings?
We are, first and foremost,servants and slaves of Allah,
subh'anahu Wa Ta-A'la.
Then we are children to ourparents and then we are spouses
(31:59):
to our spouses, right?
And this is a part of our jointidentity.
So any harm that I do to myspouse, I'm doing to myself as
well, and you have to understandthat.
There's no.
I need to gain the upper hand,because how do you gain the
upper hand against yourself,like if you don't allow your
mind to think like that.
Then you don't think about thosethings, right?
(32:19):
It's like everything that I dois for my own personal
betterment.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Interesting, interesting.
Okay, Sheikh, our listeners aremajority of them, if not all
they are single Muslims.
What can you tell them?
A piece of advice, Any lastingwords?
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Okay.
So advice for people that arelooking to get married.
Number one focus on yourrelationship with Allah,
subh'anahu Wa Ta-A'la, becausethat will directly manifest in
the rizq that you receive fromAllah, subh'anahu Wa Ta-A'la, if
sins become an impediment inistighfar and good deeds open up
the doors of rizq.
Number two is spend a lot oftime understanding who yourself
are, and this will help youchoose a good spouse for
(32:59):
yourself.
If you don't know who you are,you're not going to be able to
understand what the red flagsare that you shouldn't negotiate
on.
Number three, I would suggestuse every avenue and every
opportunity, right.
There is this concept of modestyin Islam that should be abided
by, but using the internet doesnot contradict your modesty.
(33:20):
Using an app does notcontradict your modesty.
The way you interact withpeople, that is what may
contradict your modesty, right.
So, using the avenues thatAllah, subh'anahu Wa Ta-A'la has
given you, try to open up yourminds to using them, even though
they may not be conventionalmeans.
And the fourth and last pointis with regards to helping other
people get married, right?
The Prophet Sall that whoevermakes dua for their brother and
(33:43):
sister in their absence, theangels say ameen, and for you as
well.
And then, likewise, sometimesyou may come across a person.
They're a great person, butyou're just not compatible with
them.
But you know a sister, that youknow what maybe is compatible.
Try to make that connection andif you help others get married,
then Allah will help you getmarried as well.
So, using this spiritualdynamic to help yourself get
(34:05):
married as well Beautiful.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
So even a single person can become a matchmaker.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Yeah, of course, anyone can be a matchmaker.
Like, matchmaking is a gooddeed.
Any person can do a good deed,inshallah.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Inshallah yeah it was amazing I it was amazing.
I didn't even know that theProphet's marriages more than
one of his marriages actuallyhappened through a matchmaker.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Oh, subhanallah, yeah , yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
It was amazing Sheikh , thank you so much for your
time.
This was very, very, verybeautiful.
We enjoyed our time with you.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
And again I'm so sorry for the internet troubles
man, I'm so diligent with thosesort of things, but that was
completely beyond my control.
So diligent with those sort ofthings, but I was completely
beyond my control.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Forgive me, it happens to the best of us.
Jazakumullah khair, thank you,our listeners, and, inshallah,
we'll see you in the nextepisode.
Assalamu alaikum.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Assalamu alaikum, wa alaikum assalam Warahmatullahi
wabarakatuh.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Hey, if you have a story to tell, we'd love to have
you on here.
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