October 3, 2024 • 26 mins
Worldly. Empathetic. Purposeful. Tom Drucker takes us on a remarkable journey of transitioning from clinical psychology therapy to corporate consulting, where he helps leaders enhance productivity and emotional intelligence.
Tom shares his transformative path from the therapeutic office to the corporate boardroom, with a desire to foster productivity and emotional intelligence in leadership. With a diverse clientele across Europe and Asia, he shares how he leverages remote work tools to enhance collaboration and innovation, showcasing the adaptability required in today’s business landscape.
What advice does he have for his corporate clients? What strategies does he suggest to boost your productivity and communication skills? Which two locations in the world would he like to return to?
CLICK HERE for more information about Tom Drucker.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcer (00:00):
From Los Angeles.
This is the Echelon RadioNetwork.
Brian Hemsworth (00:13):
Hey everybody.
It's Brian Hemsworth. I am herewith the Echelon radio podcast,
and today we have a specialguest who has come in to see us.
Tom Drucker, Tom, welcome.
Tom Drucker (00:24):
Thank you, Brian, good to be here.
Brian Hemsworth (00:25):
Oh. We're really glad you're here. Let's
dive right into some of you're,you're a busy guy. You've got
your hands in a lot of things.
Let's dive into a couple ofthese areas so we can get some
understanding of what you doduring most of your daytime
hours, and I know there's acouple. So let's take these sort
of in the order. I'm going totake them in the order of how I
(00:47):
know you, because some of theseare rather new to me, but you've
been a business consultant, andI know you, you come at business
consulting from a veryscientific place. Can you tell
us how you got into it and whereyou are with that kind of
consulting now.
Tom Drucker (01:06):
Sure. Well, my first career was clinical
psychology, and I practiced andthen a mentor said I should
switch my PhD studies to thebusiness school at UCLA, the
Anderson School. And I did that.
So I learned how to help many,many people by designing
programs and doing coaching andhelping to actually be a coach
(01:27):
for their culture. Because Ibelieve corporate cultures
should be and can be acompetitive advantage. And so
after my amazing work for theChairman of Xerox, I started a
consulting firm and consultantsin corporate innovation, and we
work with leaders, their teamsand individuals to help them be
(01:50):
more productive with lessstress, and in the process, make
more money.
Brian Hemsworth (01:58):
Gotcha. So just so we have a little bit of of
bearings of of this. You're inSouthern California.
Tom Drucker (02:06):
Yes.
Brian Hemsworth (02:06):
Are most of your clients here? Are they all
over the place?
Tom Drucker (02:10):
all over the place, including in Europe. And I've
worked with people in Asia too.
Because of zoom, I don't have toget on an airplane anymore,
Brian Hemsworth (02:19):
Nice.
Unknown (02:20):
unless I'm having a vacation. And the thing about
working remotely, obviously,being in person is preferable.
But, you know, you can get a lotdone with Zoom or teams, and I
find it very effective. So oneof my clients is in Chicago, and
we talk every couple of weeks,and I've helped him become more
(02:43):
proactive and less reactive as aleader by basically helping him
be calm when something happensby breathing very important
breath work really helps themind and the body become more
centered, and then he can makeinformed decisions rather than
(03:04):
reacting out of fear.
Brian Hemsworth (03:06):
So Tom, are most of your clients when you're
working with a business? Aremost of the clients going to be
sort of at that C suite orentrepreneurial level, pretty
high up at the company?
Unknown (03:17):
Well, yes. And so I do work with owners and leaders,
but I also work with individualswho may be stalled in their
career want to change careers. Ihelp people do that, and I help
people find what gives theirwork meaning, and so they can
approach work with passion,because I believe work is a form
(03:39):
of creative self expression, andif it isn't, there needs to be
some alteration in the way thatperson is interacting with their
work environment, as we spendmost of our time at work. And so
I believe that work needs toreally give an individual that
deep sense of satisfaction, thatthey're doing something
(03:59):
meaningful, and that theirvalues match the values of the
organization that they'reworking.
Brian Hemsworth (04:04):
Gotcha. Gotcha.
Now, a short while ago, I heardyou discussing something I had
not heard of before, and youreferred to it as tandem
coaching.
Tom Drucker (04:17):
Yes.
Brian Hemsworth (04:18):
Can you explain to us a little bit of what
tandem coaching is, and maybe ifyou have an example of that in
action?
Unknown (04:25):
So one of my partners is really smart, talented coach
named Mark Rothman. He was a CEOof a couple of nonprofits, and
then developed a coachingpractice, and we partnered. And
what I found was, when he and Iare working with a client or a
team, one of the things thathappens is we can kind of
(04:46):
amplify each other's ideas andmake sure that the client is
really able to take action ontheir insights. Because
sometimes you know when a newidea comes into a person's
consciousness, it takes them awhile to integrate it. So with
(05:07):
two of us, one of us islistening, the other speaking,
and we can really make sure thatthe client is internalizing it.
So I'll tell you about anexample helping a client sell
their company and his partners,typically for years, were very
negative. Anytime he would bringup an idea, they would kind of
(05:32):
dump on it. And so what wehelped him learn to do was to
stand up for his ideas and notbe cowed by their negativity.
And so he's able, was able, andis able now to guide the company
towards a sale to a privateequity firm. And he will be able
(05:55):
to do what he likes to do, whichis to help bring in business,
but also retire at some point,because he's very active in
other activities. He's onboards, philanthropic boards,
university, excuse me, andthere's a kind of, again, a
satisfaction, that his life hasmeaning and purpose and he can
(06:16):
avoid doing the things that gavehim frustration and angst.
Brian Hemsworth (06:20):
So when you are doing this kind of consulting,
whether it's the tandemconsulting or just you with
individuals or or businesses, doyou have sort of a target that
you're looking at? Are therecertain people that are more
appropriate to work with you? Isit a, is it kind of a wide swath
(06:42):
that you're able to work with?
Unknown (06:43):
I mean, you know, because I have some decades of
experience, I've worked withpeople from every level in an
organization, individualcontributors, up to owners, and
I find that everyone, of course,is unique. And so the first
thing I do is really listen andunderstand where they are in
their career cycle, what theirpassions are, what their
(07:07):
frustrations are. And then we goto work. I never have sales
calls. I just meet people. Wehave confidential, complimentary
conversations to get to knoweach other, trust each other.
And what I do is I just go towork, because that way they
experience what my value can beto them, rather than hear about
(07:28):
it. It's like you know thedifference between reading about
riding a bike and actuallyriding a bike, as you know
Brian Hemsworth (07:36):
and is your clientele, Is it primarily
bigger companies, smallercompanies, or everything?
Unknown (07:44):
Everyting. So one of my clients, VCA, a chain of
veterinary hospitals. They werepurchased by the Mars family.
Had a lot of money to grow, andthey didn't have a lot of
leaders who could manageclusters of hospitals. So we had
to design a leadership trainingprogram for the top 450 leaders,
70% of them are women, I wasproud to say. And we designed a
(08:06):
program. I had an internal team,and it was the most successful
leadership training programright out of their shoe that
I've ever done. And it was verysatisfying. And we're turning
out these leaders, and they'redoing really well. Oh, that's
awesome. And then, you know, forsmaller companies, it's not
quite so elaborate, but I havetrained literally 1000s of
(08:29):
leaders and here and abroad nowwith Zoom, but I love being in
person. It's nothing like beingin the room with people, but
sometimes that's not easy. Soyeah, I love what I do. I'm
passionate about helping peoplefind meaning and purpose in
their work. I
Brian Hemsworth (08:49):
actually found I'm a testament. I found VCA
during covid. It was actuallyvery hard to get to vets, and I
had an issue with a with one ofmy pets, and it ended for a
challenging situation. It endedup being a very good experience.
And so whatever you did and aredoing is working for them. I
(09:14):
want to put you on the spot herefor just a second. So you've
worked with 1000s of leaders.
Are there one or two things thattend to be pretty common that
you can share with us, issuesthat that that you see a lot of,
that maybe we fall into as well?
Unknown (09:32):
I think so. I think one of the things is very often
Brian Hemsworth (09:32):
So two of the things that I hear when you
leaders don't have the completelexicon or language to express
the empathy that's so importantto business, and sometimes
they're not authentic. So Ithink authenticity, being
yourself, having the vocabularyI give leaders, you know, tons
(09:54):
of words and phrases that helpincrease their emotional
intelligence, because mostpeople are very. Smart IQ wise,
speak and please correct me ifI'm wrong, but I hear sort of
but not everyone has beentrained in EQ or emotional
intelligence, and I find thatthat is as important today as it
has ever been in business. EQ isreally important emotional
(10:15):
intelligence. Most people havevery high IQs in business. You
know, they're experts atwhatever they've been doing, but
they may not have the emotionalintelligence to create empathy
the emotional and andpsychological aspect. And
and build trust. I believe trustis the foundation of
accomplishing anything in lifeor in business, and I teach
(10:36):
leaders and individuals tolisten, be empathic, be kind,
and to draw people out, becauseas people know, there's much
more that connects people thandivides people, and it's
important that people at everylevel in an organization learn
parallel to that iscommunication.
Tom Drucker (10:54):
critical.
to use themselves as agents ofempathy and kindness.
Brian Hemsworth (11:19):
Does that sound like to I mean,
Unknown (11:20):
communication is sort of the the watchword of
business. It's it's everything,because you may have good ideas,
but if you can't communicate andcollaborate, nobody does
anything alone. We all work withpeople.
Brian Hemsworth (11:36):
So if I was to ask you to editorialize for just
a moment in in in today's worldwhere we have access to so much
communication technology, and wehave our cell phones, we can
text, we can call, we can email,as you said earlier, we might
use teams and zoom. I know thatcan help us be more effective
(12:02):
and and more successful incertain ways. Is there a
downside to all of that, to allof the electronic communication?
Unknown (12:10):
Well the downside is sometimes people have so many
meetings or so many calls oremails that interrupt them that
it's very hard for them toconcentrate and get world work
done. And so I always suggestthat people live out of their
calendars. You know, if theyhave to do lists, which we all
do, you translate that to thecalendar so you block out time.
(12:34):
And it's really important forpeople to have time to think and
reflect and to schedule theirwork so that they're listening
to their body. Some people arebetter in the morning, some
people are better in theafternoon, and you need to take
breaks. You know, it's beenparticularly since the pandemic.
(12:56):
We're all looking at our screensand our phones, computer
screens, and can get reallytiring, so we need to stand up,
we need to breathe. We need to,you know, take breaks so that we
re energize ourselves. Andpeople at every level in the
organization need to do that,and particularly senior
(13:17):
managers, because often theyreally are getting a lot of
bombardment from their peers,from their boss and from their
people. So I was just talking toa fellow the other day who runs
a software developmentorganization within an
organization, and he was havingtrouble actually finding time to
(13:40):
do His own work, be strategic,rather than, you know, just deal
with the fires. And so we worktogether to carve out time for
that sort of like office hours.
And sometimes, you know, I knowwe've both been teachers, and
it's important that you havetime to plan your lessons and
sit quietly and think about whatyou're doing, and then you're
(14:03):
able to talk to people you knowwhen they need your help.
Brian Hemsworth (14:08):
I've heard that described sometimes as the
difference between working atyour work versus working on your
work, yes, and it sounds likethat's a pretty common thing.
Unknown (14:21):
Exactly. Yeah. And, you know, we all fall into that,
yeah, you know, I have to managemy own time, my own calendar.
I'm just like everybody else,
Brian Hemsworth (14:31):
and it is really hard. It's definitely a
behavioral change to not alwayspick up the phone when you hear
that beep to not always checkyour email the minute you sit
down at the computer and thatyou allow yourself those times.
Unknown (14:48):
Yeah. And the other thing is, recently, as I
mentioned to you when we weretalking before this, that I've
become an investment bankeradding to my coaching and
consulting and I help the familyowned and privately held
companies sell, be sold, so theyget the value of their life's
work. And that's reallysatisfying. I'm working with a
(15:10):
couple of research scientistswho want to sell a company
because they want to beresearchers and not business
operators and owners. So we'llhelp them get generational
wealth and then they cancontinue on their own research
path.
Brian Hemsworth (15:28):
Tom tell me about the connection between
your consulting business and howthat allowed you to move into
investment banking as one ofyour service offerings.
Tom Drucker (15:39):
Sure. Well, when I reported to the chairman of
Xerox, I had the opportunity toparticipate in many
acquisitions, and I would go inand, you know, assess the
leadership team and theirprocesses and procedures,
because that's really what acompany is. It's people, it's
culture, it's processes andprocedures, and, you know how
(16:01):
they serve their customers andtheir quality. And so I got
pretty good at that. And so whenI was approached by this company
headquartered in Pasadena calledJanas, they're all over the
United States and elsewhere inthe world, it's really just the
same skill set. So I'm helping acouple of really top tier
(16:24):
scientists sell their businessso they can continue to do
research, and I'm working on acouple of other potential
clients, and then part of otherteams. And we're in aerospace,
and we're in agriculture, a lotof farms now, you know, the land
is so valuable they want tobuild condos, yeah? And so we're
(16:46):
helping to help farmerscapitalize on their
Brian Hemsworth (16:49):
wealth. Gotcha.
Gotcha. How interesting.
Unknown (16:53):
So it's the same skill set, basically understanding
people Yeah, and assessing theirstrengths and weaknesses, and
making sure that when we find,usually, a private equity firm,
because they're doing a lot ofpurchasing of companies these
days, that it's a good fit thatthe company will be continued to
the company will continue to bemanaged well and maximize the
(17:15):
value of what was sold.
Brian Hemsworth (17:17):
Gotcha. So let's move away from business
just a little bit. I want to, Iwant to backtrack. You mentioned
your PhD studies and the shiftthat you did in this. The shift
was to Anderson School at UCLA.
Where did you do undergrad?
Tom Drucker (17:34):
UCLA.
Brian Hemsworth (17:35):
At UCLA?
Tom Drucker (17:35):
I have three degrees. I have a bachelor's, a
master's in clinical psychology,
Brian Hemsworth (17:39):
all from UCLA?
Tom Drucker (17:40):
all from UCLA,
Brian Hemsworth (17:40):
so you're a Bruin through and through.
Tom Drucker (17:41):
I'm a Bruin, but I taught at SC so
Brian Hemsworth (17:44):
oh my goodness,
Tom Drucker (17:44):
for a while I had tickets on both sides.
Brian Hemsworth (17:49):
Where are you from originally ?
Tom Drucker (17:50):
here.
Brian Hemsworth (17:51):
here?
Tom Drucker (17:51):
born and raised in LA
Brian Hemsworth (17:52):
Where abouts?
Tom Drucker (17:53):
I live in Marina Del Rey now. When I left high
school, I moved to the beach.
Brian Hemsworth (18:00):
So where was high school?
Tom Drucker (18:02):
Beverly Hills High School.
Brian Hemsworth (18:03):
So you were a little bit inland, and you moved
to the beach.
Unknown (18:06):
Moved to the beach right after high school, and
circumstances improved. My firsthouse was right off Speedway and
Avenue 30, right by the Venicefishing gear. And then for the
last few decades, we have alarge condo on the beach in
what's called the peninsula, andit's just a great privilege to
(18:28):
live on the beach.
Brian Hemsworth (18:29):
So you're you're a born and raised, you're
a true local.
Unknown (18:32):
Yeah. I am, and I love it. The only time I wasn't
living here is when I was inConnecticut working for the
Chairman of Xerox
Brian Hemsworth (18:40):
Gotcha. So Tom tell us a little bit about when
you're not working, when you'renot consulting with somebody,
when you're not helping themwith their their life or their
business. What do you like todo?
Unknown (18:51):
Well, my wife and I love to travel. So every year we
take at least one, maybe twotrips. We're about to go to
South America, starting inBuenos Aires and going around
the tip and ending up inSantiago and seeing a lot of
penguins. And then about fivemonths ago, we had a really
(19:13):
amazing time in Peru. We went onthe Amazon. We were told, if you
want to see the Amazon, as theysay, up close and personal, go
in from the Peruvian sidebecause it's more accessible. So
we were on this amazing purposebuilt boat that had 20 other
people, actually 18 otherpeople, besides Marcia and
myself. And they take you onthese high powered motorboats
(19:38):
into the tributaries to seeflora, fauna, meet people. It
was just amazing. And then wewent to the mountains Cusco and
Machu Picchu. That was justawesome.
Brian Hemsworth (19:48):
Eat any of those coca leaves on the way up
to Machu Picchu?
Unknown (19:51):
Yeah,but they didn't really seem to do much. I'm not
much for altering myconsciousness, except through
meditation and breathing. Got.
Gotcha.
Brian Hemsworth (20:00):
Gotcha. So let's play a little game of
travel. What is someplace youhave traveled to that you have
no desire to go back to?
Unknown (20:14):
Gosh, that's hard because we have been a lot of
places, or would I not want togo back to? I can't think of any
place I wouldn't want to go backto if I had the, you know, the
time or the opportunity. Well,let's see Norway. We went to
fabulous cruise up in Norway,and I'm not sure I would need to
(20:37):
do that again.
Brian Hemsworth (20:38):
Okay.
Tom Drucker (20:39):
The people were great. The weather was great,
and it was amazing to see thenatural beauty of that country,
and the people were wonderful.
But you know, sort of this, thephrase goes, once you've got the
message, you can hang up thephone. So I might not need to go
back to Norway.
Brian Hemsworth (20:56):
We missed a trip during covid that we had to
cancel. We had a a young ladyfrom Norway who was a foreign
exchange student that lived withus, and we had said we wanted to
go visit her. When she was back,she was doing advanced studies.
Covid Shut that down. We haven'tbeen able to rebook it yet.
She's moved a couple times, butwe're still hoping to get back
(21:18):
there.
Unknown (21:19):
That's a beautiful country and wonderful people as
you know. So I hope that you do
Brian Hemsworth (21:24):
so all the places you've been, if if you
could only return to one ofthem, which one would you like
to go back to?
Unknown (21:34):
Well, we spent a lot of time in Paris, Brian, we usually
go for two or three weeks rentan apartment, and sometimes
we've been able to rent the sameplace. So it's like people know
us, and that's just wonderful.
We haven't been in a while, andwe're hoping to go back soon,
but, you know, we've said, Well,you know, let's go to places we
(21:55):
haven't been. And so we'reexcited about the upcoming trip
to South America.
Brian Hemsworth (22:03):
For me, travel is a lot like restaurants. I
have the ones that I really wantto go back to, but I have others
I really want to go try.
Tom Drucker (22:11):
yeah.
Brian Hemsworth (22:11):
and I found I over my life, I've kind of
bounced between. Sometimes Ijust have that urge to go back
somewhere, and sometimes it's,Hey, let's go new, do new and
fresh.
Tom Drucker (22:21):
That's right, yeah.
Brian Hemsworth (22:22):
did you watch much of the Olympics in Paris?
Unknown (22:24):
I did. We loved it, and we had friends there, and we
were able to talk to them aboutwhat it was like to be in the
stadiums or on the streets. Andyeah, I think it's just a
remarkable opportunity to seeexcellence in action.
Brian Hemsworth (22:42):
I think Paris.
I think Paris did a fabulousjob. I think they had a couple
challenges. I think theyovercame them. But for anybody
who's been to Paris, I thinkthey created a wonderful
postcard for the world to see,
Tom Drucker (22:59):
yeah, and we're excited about it coming to LA in
four years.
Brian Hemsworth (23:02):
Yeah. they're already, they're announcing a
lot of the venues. They'relining up volunteers for it. So
it'll be a little bit different,a little bit different than
Paris. Paris did a great job ofgetting everybody to focus. I
mean, they literally had eventsin the shadow of the Eiffel
Tower.
Tom Drucker (23:19):
Yeah, volleyball, yeah, it's great.
Brian Hemsworth (23:22):
And we're gonna, we're gonna spread it out
a little bit more in SouthernCalifornia, but I remember the
84 Olympics and getting to someof the events, and even to this
day, many years later, it wasvery memorable.
Unknown (23:34):
Yeah, my wife is a writer and a theater producer.
She was asked to write an essayfor the official program.
Brian Hemsworth (23:40):
Oh, wow.
Tom Drucker (23:41):
So we got invited to a lot of events, the opening,
the closing, and it was justthrilling. And I know that Karen
Bass has said, you know, we'regoing to shut down a lot of the
cars, and people are going totake, you know, public transit,
which is great. So I think LAwill really be a fabulous venue,
(24:03):
and we have these new fabulousarenas.
Brian Hemsworth (24:06):
Oh, yeah.
Tom Drucker (24:07):
And I think that's going to showcase really well
for the world.
Brian Hemsworth (24:10):
They're going to put a swimming pool in SoFi
stadium.
Tom Drucker (24:14):
Oh, really, I didn't know.
Brian Hemsworth (24:15):
They're they're going to be able to have about
50,000 people
Tom Drucker (24:19):
watching, right?
Brian Hemsworth (24:20):
They're putting a i, I thought it was a mistake
and and it isn't. So they'regoing to do some very cool
stuff. I want to ask you, let's,let's ask one more before we
before we run out of time. So Iasked you about places maybe you
wouldn't necessarily want orneed to go back to, someplace
you'd like to go back to. Whereis somewhere that you haven't
(24:44):
been that you really want to getto?
Unknown (24:46):
to Japan. We have also not been to Singapore, and I
want to go there. And so we'relooking at 2025, to do a trip
(25:07):
over there, probably a cruisewith some land, you know,
options. I just think it's afascinating culture. I've worked
a lot in China for clients. Ireally like that part of the
world. I love the people, lovethe food, and so we're looking
(25:28):
to go to Japan in 2025.
Brian Hemsworth (25:30):
Oh excellent, excellent. Well, Tom, listen,
thanks so much for coming in.
Thanks for sharing some of yourprofessional life and a little
bit of your personal life withus. Really appreciate it, and I
think we've learned a fairamount here.
Tom Drucker (25:41):
Well thanks, Brian, it was a pleasure.
Announcer (25:56):
Presented by Echelon business development. More than
just networking. Way more.
From Los Angeles.
This is the Echelon RadioNetwork.
Brian Hemsworth (00:13):
Hey everybody.
It's Brian Hemsworth. I am herewith the Echelon radio podcast,
and today we have a specialguest who has come in to see us.
Tom Drucker, Tom, welcome.
Tom Drucker (00:24):
Thank you, Brian, good to be here.
Brian Hemsworth (00:25):
Oh. We're really glad you're here. Let's
dive right into some of you're,you're a busy guy. You've got
your hands in a lot of things.
Let's dive into a couple ofthese areas so we can get some
understanding of what you doduring most of your daytime
hours, and I know there's acouple. So let's take these sort
of in the order. I'm going totake them in the order of how I
(00:47):
know you, because some of theseare rather new to me, but you've
been a business consultant, andI know you, you come at business
consulting from a veryscientific place. Can you tell
us how you got into it and whereyou are with that kind of
consulting now.
Tom Drucker (01:06):
Sure. Well, my first career was clinical
psychology, and I practiced andthen a mentor said I should
switch my PhD studies to thebusiness school at UCLA, the
Anderson School. And I did that.
So I learned how to help many,many people by designing
programs and doing coaching andhelping to actually be a coach
(01:27):
for their culture. Because Ibelieve corporate cultures
should be and can be acompetitive advantage. And so
after my amazing work for theChairman of Xerox, I started a
consulting firm and consultantsin corporate innovation, and we
work with leaders, their teamsand individuals to help them be
(01:50):
more productive with lessstress, and in the process, make
more money.
Brian Hemsworth (01:58):
Gotcha. So just so we have a little bit of of
bearings of of this. You're inSouthern California.
Tom Drucker (02:06):
Yes.
Brian Hemsworth (02:06):
Are most of your clients here? Are they all
over the place?
Tom Drucker (02:10):
all over the place, including in Europe. And I've
worked with people in Asia too.
Because of zoom, I don't have toget on an airplane anymore,
Brian Hemsworth (02:19):
Nice.
Unknown (02:20):
unless I'm having a vacation. And the thing about
working remotely, obviously,being in person is preferable.
But, you know, you can get a lotdone with Zoom or teams, and I
find it very effective. So oneof my clients is in Chicago, and
we talk every couple of weeks,and I've helped him become more
(02:43):
proactive and less reactive as aleader by basically helping him
be calm when something happensby breathing very important
breath work really helps themind and the body become more
centered, and then he can makeinformed decisions rather than
(03:04):
reacting out of fear.
Brian Hemsworth (03:06):
So Tom, are most of your clients when you're
working with a business? Aremost of the clients going to be
sort of at that C suite orentrepreneurial level, pretty
high up at the company?
Unknown (03:17):
Well, yes. And so I do work with owners and leaders,
but I also work with individualswho may be stalled in their
career want to change careers. Ihelp people do that, and I help
people find what gives theirwork meaning, and so they can
approach work with passion,because I believe work is a form
(03:39):
of creative self expression, andif it isn't, there needs to be
some alteration in the way thatperson is interacting with their
work environment, as we spendmost of our time at work. And so
I believe that work needs toreally give an individual that
deep sense of satisfaction, thatthey're doing something
(03:59):
meaningful, and that theirvalues match the values of the
organization that they'reworking.
Brian Hemsworth (04:04):
Gotcha. Gotcha.
Now, a short while ago, I heardyou discussing something I had
not heard of before, and youreferred to it as tandem
coaching.
Tom Drucker (04:17):
Yes.
Brian Hemsworth (04:18):
Can you explain to us a little bit of what
tandem coaching is, and maybe ifyou have an example of that in
action?
Unknown (04:25):
So one of my partners is really smart, talented coach
named Mark Rothman. He was a CEOof a couple of nonprofits, and
then developed a coachingpractice, and we partnered. And
what I found was, when he and Iare working with a client or a
team, one of the things thathappens is we can kind of
(04:46):
amplify each other's ideas andmake sure that the client is
really able to take action ontheir insights. Because
sometimes you know when a newidea comes into a person's
consciousness, it takes them awhile to integrate it. So with
(05:07):
two of us, one of us islistening, the other speaking,
and we can really make sure thatthe client is internalizing it.
So I'll tell you about anexample helping a client sell
their company and his partners,typically for years, were very
negative. Anytime he would bringup an idea, they would kind of
(05:32):
dump on it. And so what wehelped him learn to do was to
stand up for his ideas and notbe cowed by their negativity.
And so he's able, was able, andis able now to guide the company
towards a sale to a privateequity firm. And he will be able
(05:55):
to do what he likes to do, whichis to help bring in business,
but also retire at some point,because he's very active in
other activities. He's onboards, philanthropic boards,
university, excuse me, andthere's a kind of, again, a
satisfaction, that his life hasmeaning and purpose and he can
(06:16):
avoid doing the things that gavehim frustration and angst.
Brian Hemsworth (06:20):
So when you are doing this kind of consulting,
whether it's the tandemconsulting or just you with
individuals or or businesses, doyou have sort of a target that
you're looking at? Are therecertain people that are more
appropriate to work with you? Isit a, is it kind of a wide swath
(06:42):
that you're able to work with?
Unknown (06:43):
I mean, you know, because I have some decades of
experience, I've worked withpeople from every level in an
organization, individualcontributors, up to owners, and
I find that everyone, of course,is unique. And so the first
thing I do is really listen andunderstand where they are in
their career cycle, what theirpassions are, what their
(07:07):
frustrations are. And then we goto work. I never have sales
calls. I just meet people. Wehave confidential, complimentary
conversations to get to knoweach other, trust each other.
And what I do is I just go towork, because that way they
experience what my value can beto them, rather than hear about
(07:28):
it. It's like you know thedifference between reading about
riding a bike and actuallyriding a bike, as you know
Brian Hemsworth (07:36):
and is your clientele, Is it primarily
bigger companies, smallercompanies, or everything?
Unknown (07:44):
Everyting. So one of my clients, VCA, a chain of
veterinary hospitals. They werepurchased by the Mars family.
Had a lot of money to grow, andthey didn't have a lot of
leaders who could manageclusters of hospitals. So we had
to design a leadership trainingprogram for the top 450 leaders,
70% of them are women, I wasproud to say. And we designed a
(08:06):
program. I had an internal team,and it was the most successful
leadership training programright out of their shoe that
I've ever done. And it was verysatisfying. And we're turning
out these leaders, and they'redoing really well. Oh, that's
awesome. And then, you know, forsmaller companies, it's not
quite so elaborate, but I havetrained literally 1000s of
(08:29):
leaders and here and abroad nowwith Zoom, but I love being in
person. It's nothing like beingin the room with people, but
sometimes that's not easy. Soyeah, I love what I do. I'm
passionate about helping peoplefind meaning and purpose in
their work. I
Brian Hemsworth (08:49):
actually found I'm a testament. I found VCA
during covid. It was actuallyvery hard to get to vets, and I
had an issue with a with one ofmy pets, and it ended for a
challenging situation. It endedup being a very good experience.
And so whatever you did and aredoing is working for them. I
(09:14):
want to put you on the spot herefor just a second. So you've
worked with 1000s of leaders.
Are there one or two things thattend to be pretty common that
you can share with us, issuesthat that that you see a lot of,
that maybe we fall into as well?
Unknown (09:32):
I think so. I think one of the things is very often
Brian Hemsworth (09:32):
So two of the things that I hear when you
leaders don't have the completelexicon or language to express
the empathy that's so importantto business, and sometimes
they're not authentic. So Ithink authenticity, being
yourself, having the vocabularyI give leaders, you know, tons
(09:54):
of words and phrases that helpincrease their emotional
intelligence, because mostpeople are very. Smart IQ wise,
speak and please correct me ifI'm wrong, but I hear sort of
but not everyone has beentrained in EQ or emotional
intelligence, and I find thatthat is as important today as it
has ever been in business. EQ isreally important emotional
(10:15):
intelligence. Most people havevery high IQs in business. You
know, they're experts atwhatever they've been doing, but
they may not have the emotionalintelligence to create empathy
the emotional and andpsychological aspect. And
and build trust. I believe trustis the foundation of
accomplishing anything in lifeor in business, and I teach
(10:36):
leaders and individuals tolisten, be empathic, be kind,
and to draw people out, becauseas people know, there's much
more that connects people thandivides people, and it's
important that people at everylevel in an organization learn
parallel to that iscommunication.
Tom Drucker (10:54):
critical.
to use themselves as agents ofempathy and kindness.
Brian Hemsworth (11:19):
Does that sound like to I mean,
Unknown (11:20):
communication is sort of the the watchword of
business. It's it's everything,because you may have good ideas,
but if you can't communicate andcollaborate, nobody does
anything alone. We all work withpeople.
Brian Hemsworth (11:36):
So if I was to ask you to editorialize for just
a moment in in in today's worldwhere we have access to so much
communication technology, and wehave our cell phones, we can
text, we can call, we can email,as you said earlier, we might
use teams and zoom. I know thatcan help us be more effective
(12:02):
and and more successful incertain ways. Is there a
downside to all of that, to allof the electronic communication?
Unknown (12:10):
Well the downside is sometimes people have so many
meetings or so many calls oremails that interrupt them that
it's very hard for them toconcentrate and get world work
done. And so I always suggestthat people live out of their
calendars. You know, if theyhave to do lists, which we all
do, you translate that to thecalendar so you block out time.
(12:34):
And it's really important forpeople to have time to think and
reflect and to schedule theirwork so that they're listening
to their body. Some people arebetter in the morning, some
people are better in theafternoon, and you need to take
breaks. You know, it's beenparticularly since the pandemic.
(12:56):
We're all looking at our screensand our phones, computer
screens, and can get reallytiring, so we need to stand up,
we need to breathe. We need to,you know, take breaks so that we
re energize ourselves. Andpeople at every level in the
organization need to do that,and particularly senior
(13:17):
managers, because often theyreally are getting a lot of
bombardment from their peers,from their boss and from their
people. So I was just talking toa fellow the other day who runs
a software developmentorganization within an
organization, and he was havingtrouble actually finding time to
(13:40):
do His own work, be strategic,rather than, you know, just deal
with the fires. And so we worktogether to carve out time for
that sort of like office hours.
And sometimes, you know, I knowwe've both been teachers, and
it's important that you havetime to plan your lessons and
sit quietly and think about whatyou're doing, and then you're
(14:03):
able to talk to people you knowwhen they need your help.
Brian Hemsworth (14:08):
I've heard that described sometimes as the
difference between working atyour work versus working on your
work, yes, and it sounds likethat's a pretty common thing.
Unknown (14:21):
Exactly. Yeah. And, you know, we all fall into that,
yeah, you know, I have to managemy own time, my own calendar.
I'm just like everybody else,
Brian Hemsworth (14:31):
and it is really hard. It's definitely a
behavioral change to not alwayspick up the phone when you hear
that beep to not always checkyour email the minute you sit
down at the computer and thatyou allow yourself those times.
Unknown (14:48):
Yeah. And the other thing is, recently, as I
mentioned to you when we weretalking before this, that I've
become an investment bankeradding to my coaching and
consulting and I help the familyowned and privately held
companies sell, be sold, so theyget the value of their life's
work. And that's reallysatisfying. I'm working with a
(15:10):
couple of research scientistswho want to sell a company
because they want to beresearchers and not business
operators and owners. So we'llhelp them get generational
wealth and then they cancontinue on their own research
path.
Brian Hemsworth (15:28):
Tom tell me about the connection between
your consulting business and howthat allowed you to move into
investment banking as one ofyour service offerings.
Tom Drucker (15:39):
Sure. Well, when I reported to the chairman of
Xerox, I had the opportunity toparticipate in many
acquisitions, and I would go inand, you know, assess the
leadership team and theirprocesses and procedures,
because that's really what acompany is. It's people, it's
culture, it's processes andprocedures, and, you know how
(16:01):
they serve their customers andtheir quality. And so I got
pretty good at that. And so whenI was approached by this company
headquartered in Pasadena calledJanas, they're all over the
United States and elsewhere inthe world, it's really just the
same skill set. So I'm helping acouple of really top tier
(16:24):
scientists sell their businessso they can continue to do
research, and I'm working on acouple of other potential
clients, and then part of otherteams. And we're in aerospace,
and we're in agriculture, a lotof farms now, you know, the land
is so valuable they want tobuild condos, yeah? And so we're
(16:46):
helping to help farmerscapitalize on their
Brian Hemsworth (16:49):
wealth. Gotcha.
Gotcha. How interesting.
Unknown (16:53):
So it's the same skill set, basically understanding
people Yeah, and assessing theirstrengths and weaknesses, and
making sure that when we find,usually, a private equity firm,
because they're doing a lot ofpurchasing of companies these
days, that it's a good fit thatthe company will be continued to
the company will continue to bemanaged well and maximize the
(17:15):
value of what was sold.
Brian Hemsworth (17:17):
Gotcha. So let's move away from business
just a little bit. I want to, Iwant to backtrack. You mentioned
your PhD studies and the shiftthat you did in this. The shift
was to Anderson School at UCLA.
Where did you do undergrad?
Tom Drucker (17:34):
UCLA.
Brian Hemsworth (17:35):
At UCLA?
Tom Drucker (17:35):
I have three degrees. I have a bachelor's, a
master's in clinical psychology,
Brian Hemsworth (17:39):
all from UCLA?
Tom Drucker (17:40):
all from UCLA,
Brian Hemsworth (17:40):
so you're a Bruin through and through.
Tom Drucker (17:41):
I'm a Bruin, but I taught at SC so
Brian Hemsworth (17:44):
oh my goodness,
Tom Drucker (17:44):
for a while I had tickets on both sides.
Brian Hemsworth (17:49):
Where are you from originally ?
Tom Drucker (17:50):
here.
Brian Hemsworth (17:51):
here?
Tom Drucker (17:51):
born and raised in LA
Brian Hemsworth (17:52):
Where abouts?
Tom Drucker (17:53):
I live in Marina Del Rey now. When I left high
school, I moved to the beach.
Brian Hemsworth (18:00):
So where was high school?
Tom Drucker (18:02):
Beverly Hills High School.
Brian Hemsworth (18:03):
So you were a little bit inland, and you moved
to the beach.
Unknown (18:06):
Moved to the beach right after high school, and
circumstances improved. My firsthouse was right off Speedway and
Avenue 30, right by the Venicefishing gear. And then for the
last few decades, we have alarge condo on the beach in
what's called the peninsula, andit's just a great privilege to
(18:28):
live on the beach.
Brian Hemsworth (18:29):
So you're you're a born and raised, you're
a true local.
Unknown (18:32):
Yeah. I am, and I love it. The only time I wasn't
living here is when I was inConnecticut working for the
Chairman of Xerox
Brian Hemsworth (18:40):
Gotcha. So Tom tell us a little bit about when
you're not working, when you'renot consulting with somebody,
when you're not helping themwith their their life or their
business. What do you like todo?
Unknown (18:51):
Well, my wife and I love to travel. So every year we
take at least one, maybe twotrips. We're about to go to
South America, starting inBuenos Aires and going around
the tip and ending up inSantiago and seeing a lot of
penguins. And then about fivemonths ago, we had a really
(19:13):
amazing time in Peru. We went onthe Amazon. We were told, if you
want to see the Amazon, as theysay, up close and personal, go
in from the Peruvian sidebecause it's more accessible. So
we were on this amazing purposebuilt boat that had 20 other
people, actually 18 otherpeople, besides Marcia and
myself. And they take you onthese high powered motorboats
(19:38):
into the tributaries to seeflora, fauna, meet people. It
was just amazing. And then wewent to the mountains Cusco and
Machu Picchu. That was justawesome.
Brian Hemsworth (19:48):
Eat any of those coca leaves on the way up
to Machu Picchu?
Unknown (19:51):
Yeah,but they didn't really seem to do much. I'm not
much for altering myconsciousness, except through
meditation and breathing. Got.
Gotcha.
Brian Hemsworth (20:00):
Gotcha. So let's play a little game of
travel. What is someplace youhave traveled to that you have
no desire to go back to?
Unknown (20:14):
Gosh, that's hard because we have been a lot of
places, or would I not want togo back to? I can't think of any
place I wouldn't want to go backto if I had the, you know, the
time or the opportunity. Well,let's see Norway. We went to
fabulous cruise up in Norway,and I'm not sure I would need to
(20:37):
do that again.
Brian Hemsworth (20:38):
Okay.
Tom Drucker (20:39):
The people were great. The weather was great,
and it was amazing to see thenatural beauty of that country,
and the people were wonderful.
But you know, sort of this, thephrase goes, once you've got the
message, you can hang up thephone. So I might not need to go
back to Norway.
Brian Hemsworth (20:56):
We missed a trip during covid that we had to
cancel. We had a a young ladyfrom Norway who was a foreign
exchange student that lived withus, and we had said we wanted to
go visit her. When she was back,she was doing advanced studies.
Covid Shut that down. We haven'tbeen able to rebook it yet.
She's moved a couple times, butwe're still hoping to get back
(21:18):
there.
Unknown (21:19):
That's a beautiful country and wonderful people as
you know. So I hope that you do
Brian Hemsworth (21:24):
so all the places you've been, if if you
could only return to one ofthem, which one would you like
to go back to?
Unknown (21:34):
Well, we spent a lot of time in Paris, Brian, we usually
go for two or three weeks rentan apartment, and sometimes
we've been able to rent the sameplace. So it's like people know
us, and that's just wonderful.
We haven't been in a while, andwe're hoping to go back soon,
but, you know, we've said, Well,you know, let's go to places we
(21:55):
haven't been. And so we'reexcited about the upcoming trip
to South America.
Brian Hemsworth (22:03):
For me, travel is a lot like restaurants. I
have the ones that I really wantto go back to, but I have others
I really want to go try.
Tom Drucker (22:11):
yeah.
Brian Hemsworth (22:11):
and I found I over my life, I've kind of
bounced between. Sometimes Ijust have that urge to go back
somewhere, and sometimes it's,Hey, let's go new, do new and
fresh.
Tom Drucker (22:21):
That's right, yeah.
Brian Hemsworth (22:22):
did you watch much of the Olympics in Paris?
Unknown (22:24):
I did. We loved it, and we had friends there, and we
were able to talk to them aboutwhat it was like to be in the
stadiums or on the streets. Andyeah, I think it's just a
remarkable opportunity to seeexcellence in action.
Brian Hemsworth (22:42):
I think Paris.
I think Paris did a fabulousjob. I think they had a couple
challenges. I think theyovercame them. But for anybody
who's been to Paris, I thinkthey created a wonderful
postcard for the world to see,
Tom Drucker (22:59):
yeah, and we're excited about it coming to LA in
four years.
Brian Hemsworth (23:02):
Yeah. they're already, they're announcing a
lot of the venues. They'relining up volunteers for it. So
it'll be a little bit different,a little bit different than
Paris. Paris did a great job ofgetting everybody to focus. I
mean, they literally had eventsin the shadow of the Eiffel
Tower.
Tom Drucker (23:19):
Yeah, volleyball, yeah, it's great.
Brian Hemsworth (23:22):
And we're gonna, we're gonna spread it out
a little bit more in SouthernCalifornia, but I remember the
84 Olympics and getting to someof the events, and even to this
day, many years later, it wasvery memorable.
Unknown (23:34):
Yeah, my wife is a writer and a theater producer.
She was asked to write an essayfor the official program.
Brian Hemsworth (23:40):
Oh, wow.
Tom Drucker (23:41):
So we got invited to a lot of events, the opening,
the closing, and it was justthrilling. And I know that Karen
Bass has said, you know, we'regoing to shut down a lot of the
cars, and people are going totake, you know, public transit,
which is great. So I think LAwill really be a fabulous venue,
(24:03):
and we have these new fabulousarenas.
Brian Hemsworth (24:06):
Oh, yeah.
Tom Drucker (24:07):
And I think that's going to showcase really well
for the world.
Brian Hemsworth (24:10):
They're going to put a swimming pool in SoFi
stadium.
Tom Drucker (24:14):
Oh, really, I didn't know.
Brian Hemsworth (24:15):
They're they're going to be able to have about
50,000 people
Tom Drucker (24:19):
watching, right?
Brian Hemsworth (24:20):
They're putting a i, I thought it was a mistake
and and it isn't. So they'regoing to do some very cool
stuff. I want to ask you, let's,let's ask one more before we
before we run out of time. So Iasked you about places maybe you
wouldn't necessarily want orneed to go back to, someplace
you'd like to go back to. Whereis somewhere that you haven't
(24:44):
been that you really want to getto?
Unknown (24:46):
to Japan. We have also not been to Singapore, and I
want to go there. And so we'relooking at 2025, to do a trip
(25:07):
over there, probably a cruisewith some land, you know,
options. I just think it's afascinating culture. I've worked
a lot in China for clients. Ireally like that part of the
world. I love the people, lovethe food, and so we're looking
(25:28):
to go to Japan in 2025.
Brian Hemsworth (25:30):
Oh excellent, excellent. Well, Tom, listen,
thanks so much for coming in.
Thanks for sharing some of yourprofessional life and a little
bit of your personal life withus. Really appreciate it, and I
think we've learned a fairamount here.
Tom Drucker (25:41):
Well thanks, Brian, it was a pleasure.
Announcer (25:56):
Presented by Echelon business development. More than
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