Unraveling 'Longlegs' + Derek Nunn LIVE at Edison Square

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What if the sinister forces lurking in the shadows of your favorite horror films were more real than you ever imagined? Join us as we dissect "Longlegs," the chilling new horror thriller by Osgood Perkins. 
Stick around after our ‘Longlegs’ discussion to hear from Tacoma-based filmmaker Derek Nunn. Derek shares his journey from Los Angeles to Tacoma and his mission to boost the Pacific Northwest's filmmaking community. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
How's it?
I'm Alex McCauley and I'm MaxFosberg and this is excuse the
intermission a discussion showsurrounding serial killers,
satanic forces, the FBI andmommy and daddy.
We are talking long legs onthis episode, the highly
anticipated, greatly marketedhorror thriller from filmmaker
Osgood Perkins.
We will start with a light,spoiler-free overview of the

(00:26):
film and then take a deep diveinto the movie, discussing all
of the twists and turns.
After that we have aconversation with Derek Nunn
that was recorded during ourlive show at Edison Square.
Derek talks about his new shortfilm that'll be making the
rounds on the upcoming festivalcircuit, so we hope you stick

(00:53):
around for that.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Derek is a great guy and good friend of VTI, so if
you enjoy that interview, wewill let you know how to get
more content from our live show,where we also spoke to
organizing, cultivating andcelebrating the region's
filmmaking community Throughscreenings, educational
opportunities and communityinitiatives.
Seattle Film Society strives tobe a centralizing force for

(01:16):
Seattle-area filmmakers.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
Their monthly screening event, locals Only is
held at 18th and Union inSeattle's district and
spotlights local voices andindependent filmmaking tickets
start at $10 and are availableat Seattle film societycom.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
To keep up with the Seattle film society, Be sure to
check them out on Instagram orletterbox at Seattle film
society or on their websiteSeattle film societycom.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
Come be a part of the next generation of Seattle
filmmaking.
Today.
All right Max, how are youdoing?
Today?
It's Tuesday, it's Tuesday.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Tuesday morning.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, our newly chosen summer recording day.
The past few weeks we've beencatching the breakfast matinee
down at the Ruston Cinemark.
That was not necessary, as weboth saw long legs over the
film's opening weekend.
So how are you doing today?
I know you've been busy.
It might be time for a Max'sSchool Corner update.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, just you know I'm swimming in it, swimming in
the projects, what I've got twodifferent documentaries going on
at the same time.
I just finished a final projectfor my intro to motion graphics
.
Uh, last night, um, which waslike a short little silly short

(02:38):
yeah, what have we learned?

Speaker 1 (02:39):
what have we been doing?

Speaker 2 (02:40):
uh, lots, lots of green screen, lots of um
superimposing graphics.
Uh, over video.
How to blend stuff, make itlook, you know, like it's better
in the scene.
I'll tell you what.
You know, what the the best wayto make something look real in
the scene is like shoot thebackdrop first.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
I don't know what sound sound sound goes so far.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
If you have good sound design, people are more
than likely like able to dispendtheir their disbelief and and
really hone in and be like, ohyeah, he can shoot lasers out of
his hands because it soundslike what lasers would sound
like.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
That's the sound of a laser.
Yeah, Interesting, so has thatprocess been more difficult, or
have you found it once?
You kind of get into it?
I don't want to say easy,nothing's probably easy.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
It's the most toxic relationship you've ever been in
, Because while you're doing it,you're just like I hate
everything about this.
It's tedious, it's hard tounderstand, it's lots of
different.
You know assets and clickingand little buttons and whatnot,
but then as soon as you getsomething done, you just watch

(03:55):
it 50 times over and you're justlike I love you.
You're the best thing I've evermade.
Um, uh, so yeah, uh, it's, it's, it's an interesting process,
but um, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
So school's been really busy, but then the doc,
one of the documentaries, atleast one of the projects you're
working on, I I was with you asyou were filming some material
for that.
The other night it was like alive venue, yeah, um, a very a
static environment as, as onemight label it, a lot of moving
parts.
How is that?

Speaker 2 (04:29):
uh, my biggest concern while shooting that was
just, I didn't want to take awayfrom the performance on the
stage, right.
So I was shooting during animprov show and, like, the big
thing about improv is thatyou're very locked in because a
lot, of a lot of you know,there's a lot of moving parts
and jokes that people arepulling back from.

(04:52):
From the beginning of the showto the end of the show.
They're jumping in and out oftime, they're making things up
as they go.
They don't have any props oranything, so they're miming
everything.
You have to really payattention to improv to really
enjoy it, or anything.
So they're miming everything.
You have to really payattention to improv to really
enjoy it.
Um, so my biggest concern waslike getting in front of you
know the audience and you knowtaking someone out of it, even

(05:14):
though, like, the most importantthing to shoot that night was
audience reaction shots, causethat's going to be like just
golden B roll, to use um in thisdocumentary.
So, kind of like you know, uh,and I've I'm starting to go
through that footage and look atit and I think it did an okay
job of like no one's really everlooking down the barrel, which

(05:37):
is good, opposed from you andsome of our friends who were
there.
Yeah, but uh, so I think I Istayed kind of incognito enough,
uh, at least with with the restof the audience, um, but yeah,
really, really interesting toshoot something like that.
You know, because also likeyou're not in control of the

(05:58):
lighting yeah, yeah, you justkind of have to.
You have to kind of, you know,go with what you get right.
It's very dark, except for thestage, which actually isn't bad
lighting.
It's a little tough when you'reshooting stuff on the stage
because it can be a littleoverexposed, but when you're
shooting the audience, it's justlight reflecting off off their

(06:19):
faces, which is nice, um, butyeah, it was interesting.
Well, you know, live, live stuffis always hard to shoot it's
always it's always tough and andpeople and also you know I I
thought I was going to they weregoing to announce like hey,
there's a camera, we areshooting.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
I know from talking to the guys on stage that was
their plan yeah and and thatdidn't happen.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
So then I felt extra kind of awkward, but that's okay
, it all worked out.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
I love it.
That's awesome.
All right, so long legs.
The fourth feature film fromOsgood Perkins, the son of famed
actor Anthony Perkins in casethat sounded familiar aka Norman
Bates, of course.
Actor Anthony Perkins in casethat sounded familiar, aka
Norman Bates, of course openedthis past weekend to mostly
positive reviews but really goodfinancial success.
The movie earned $22 milliondomestically its opening weekend

(07:19):
, against a production budget ofabout $10 million, which is a
huge win for everyone involved,especially Neon.
Neon is, of course, theemerging distributor that has
released the last five palm diorwinning films, so this movie
made more than its openingweekend.
At least.
It made more than parasite,titan triangle of sadness,
anatomy of a fall and then, mostrecently, uh, neon will be

(07:40):
distributing sean baker's newfilm, an, which won the Palm
Dior as well this year, and wegot to see if you chose to watch
it.
There was the first theatricaltrailer of Anora before.
Long legs.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
They also have a deal with Osgood for his next two
films that are, I believe, inthe can right now, or I know one
one is the Stephen.

Speaker 3 (08:01):
King.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
Adaptation of the monkey the monkey shines monkey,
which is really exciting.
That's based off of neon'sbelief in in long legs and what
they got from that, and so atleast they're one for three, so
far, at least on the financialside of things.
Um, so let's, let's just kindof pause right there and first
talk about the, the long legsmarketing, because, say what you

(08:23):
will about the overall film,but for an independent movie,
this is like one of the mostimpressive, impressive marketing
schemes that I can kind ofremember seeing in years and now
horror has a history of beingable to market this way.
Really well, you think aboutcloverfield, you think about the
blair witch project, paranormalactivity, right?
Um, so how, how effective doyou think that the long legs

(08:46):
scheme was?

Speaker 2 (08:47):
I mean, they should get an oscar for for how, how
well they did the the marketingteam over there at neon.
Um, it killed it.
Whether it was like a weirdphone number on a billboard, uh,
a website.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
Dude, I looked up this website because I had no
idea about it.
I and of course listeners of theshow know I stay away from
everything.
Yeah, you tell me osgoodperkins is making a film that's
distributed by neon.
That's about a serial killerand stars michael monroe, like
I'm in.
I don't.
That's.
That's enough for me.
But yeah, for those who don'tknow, because I did not know
until I went back and researchedthis the seattle times put in

(09:23):
an advertisement for the FridayJune 14th edition of their paper
that released a Zodiac-likecoded message, which then led
people to a website that wascalled thebirthdaymurdersnet,
which then that website detaileda number of murder suicides
from throughout the PacificNorthwest area, believed to have

(09:45):
been committed by a serialkiller who calls themselves long
legs.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
Just brilliant.
I mean, we haven't seen thatkind of marketing for a film in
a very long time.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
The last I can remember is Cloverfield, where
they kind of had this inuniverse.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
There was a website like a weird website.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yes, yeah, it showed pictures of like slushies and
different things and you're like, how is this going to tie in
and everything else, a lot ofstuff having to do with like
Japan, different countries andnuclear kind of like, not like
nuclear holocaust, but just alot of stuff that really wet
your appetite going into it.
Same with this too, even justlike the the eyes, the red

(10:23):
banner with the black eyes thatyou saw people like you could
print out your own like kind ofmask, not even really knowing
what that was.
So so you're right, I almostwish you know.
I don't think there probablyever will be, that's a real pipe
dream, but we're getting thingslike casting directors
recognized in the academy awardssome somehow.
Maybe that is like at the um.

(10:43):
You know, there's like the thescience, the arts of science, um
academy awards.
That happened before againmaybe, maybe, maybe not, but I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
The marketing team over at neon just kudos to you
guys also I think like justbrilliant trailer cutting yeah,
you never see long legs andthose trailers, went back and
watched those as well.
A pose from like a maybe ablacked out shadow, you know
silhouette of him and so youhave no idea what Nicolas Cage

(11:17):
looks like as this charactergoing in and and you know,
listen, I think, think, as, asyou pointed out, something like
paranormal activity or blairwitch, you know when it it gets
that stamp like the scariestmovie ever and they run with it.
You know that's going to getpeople out to the theaters, it

(11:39):
doesn't.
It doesn't really matter ifit's clickbait or not.
You, you are right, like youwant to see the scariest thing
ever.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
Right, there were a lot of folks who I talked to
this past week that wereanticipating this film, that I
didn't know were movie people.
There were a lot of people thatasked my you know like we were
with some friends the othernight and someone says, just can
you sum up long legs in oneword for me.
Because they they wanted to go.
They wanted to know what Ithought of it, but they still
wanted to go.
They wanted to know what Ithought of it, but they still
wanted to go and go in asspoiler free as possible.

(12:07):
So it's, it's really excitingone word I said sinister,
sinister yeah I was, yeah, Iwould have said dread, yeah,
that's a good one as well.
And so there's.
There's really something to besaid about when a horror film
can come out in the middle ofsummer like this, drum up this
much excitement, and now we'llkind of talk about where this
falls, maybe in the 2024 canonof horror films.

(12:29):
But it was sort of I don't wantto call it like the linchpin.
It's not like the success ofthis genre, genre, was riding on
this or not, but I think peopledid think that this was going
to be like the pillar.
That kind of held up the genreand was maybe the apex.
And now I still have a.
I still have another horrorfilm rated above this one going
into the year and I mean that'sthe first omen.

(12:51):
The first omen is just likeit's undefeated.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
It's it's undefeated will it be defeated?

Speaker 1 (12:55):
maybe, maybe, nosferatu yeah I don't know if
you're gonna, if we're gonna,count alien romulus as straight
up horror we'll see we'll seehow terrifying it ends up being
right, I guess, um, but but forfor a horror film to come along
and like not even one that has,you know, like a quiet place
much more financially successfulthan this film but that's part
of a franchise, it's pg-13, awider appeal but for this movie

(13:19):
to still do as much business asit did and make as much noise as
it did, I think that likethat's the first win, right
there before you, even like, getinto the theater, really.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, I went on a Friday night.
Theater was packed seven, 45show Like one of the biggest
lines at concessions I've seenin a long time.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
That's really cool.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
So it was.
It was exciting to be in atheater like that, yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
I saw it on a Thursday night, so it was
exciting to be in a theater likethat.
Yeah, I saw it on a Thursdaynight, so a little bit of like
an early release screening,seven o'clock, a lot of other
sickos in there, and I'm veryappreciative of the crowd I got,
because I've heard from otherfolks you included that, and now
whether you chalk this up and Idon't want to again, let's try
not to get into too manyspoilers yet but like whether or

(14:04):
not you're just madeuncomfortable by the absurdity
of films like this or of certainimages or the way that certain
characters are dressed or behave, like it can create nervous
laughter.
It can maybe just create agenuine like comedic, you know,
like a response from somebodywhere they're just kind of
laughing because they feel likeit's comedic, and so I I've also
told some folks that have askedme about this movie that like

(14:25):
as much fun as it is to see amovie like this with a Friday
night or Saturday night crowd inprimetime, maybe wait until you
can almost guarantee a quieter,smaller crowd in your theater.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
It's so crazy because I'm such a hypocrite, because I
actually, yeah, I thought aboutthat like, wow, you know what,
this movie would fucking beawesome at home, even though,
like you do need some reallygood sound, because there's a
really good sound design in thisfilm, uh, and so, like, having
that in that sound system in thetheater is really nice.

(15:01):
But I was thinking about thatlike, I wonder, I wonder if I
had watched this at home atnight, in the dark alone.
Yeah, how do my feelings change?

Speaker 1 (15:13):
I don't know, I don't know yeah, where then, all of a
sudden, you go, you walk downthe hall to the bathroom or you
look out the dark kitchen windowand you're, you're feeling
things that you wouldn't befeeling in a theater.
I get that.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
I get that it's so weird, that's so weird.
I, I feel like I I find thatwith horror movies more than
anything too.
Yeah, that's the genre it canalso be this the other way,
extremely, the other way, rightlike I don't know, it's really
strange.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
No, I get it, you know.
I don't really know why thismovie's been.
I've been thinking about thismovie, but I've been thinking
about the 2018 David GordonGreen Halloween a lot recently.
And I feel like that's a moviewhere, like I've been, I've been
kind of circling a rewatch ofthat one.
Again, I don't really know why,um for no particular reason, but
it's a really good movie that'sone that I seen in the theaters

(16:01):
was awesome, was incredible,whereas like watching it at home
, I don't know if I watched thatmovie at home yet Um, so I hope
that it still holds up and Idon't start to feel like
Halloween kills and Halloweenends.
You know cause those films Idid watch at home a little goofy
, totally like really goofy bythe time we get to the end of
that trilogy.
But I think that's a goodexample of what you're talking

(16:22):
about, where, just like, someplay really well in the theater
because they're big and they'reloud and the kills are awesome
and they're on this 80 footscreen, whereas like long legs
that's small, contained, um, youknow you're really playing with
like blank space we can get tothat, the aspects of it here in
a little bit.
But like that stuff works, worksreally well on like a nice tv

(16:42):
at home with a good bar, almostjust as well as it does in the
theater.
Interesting thoughts there.
So okay, let's do kind of someoverall thoughts on the film.
I want to start first with thesetting, because, having stayed
away from all the trailers andnot that this is really given
away in any of the previews, butonce you've seen the movie, the

(17:06):
previews but it once you'veseen the movie and if you're
listening to this podcast as alocal listener, it will come as
a little bit of a surprise toyou maybe it did to me that this
is set in the late 20th centuryin the pacific northwest I had
no idea.
you had no idea, I had no clueeither loved it.
Living in this area, growing upin the 1990s, where a majority
of this film is set, I reallyresponded to the atmosphere that

(17:28):
was created by telling thestory in this way, which kind of
has, just like it, reinforcedthis morbid curiosity that I've
always had when going on roadtrips or driving around with my
parents growing up and and beingin these different counties
that you're not really familiarwith and you drive by these like
farmhouses and these differentneighborhoods and even these
towns that just feel so isolatedand a little desolate.

(17:53):
The film that really reminded meof this altar that I worship at
that is Twin Peaks, where Ijust I really felt like we're
tapping into something herewhere, like small town America,
small town Pacific Northwest,where you're surrounded by the

(18:15):
woods, where communities are notconnected, there's, there's
that room there.
It's the kind of that idlehands or the devil's playground
like these, thesedisenfranchised, just kind of
that idle hands or the devil'splayground, like these
disenfranchised, just kind oflike underdeveloped communities
that are out there.
And if you don't live in thispart of the United States, like
I know, on the East Coast, westVirginia, there's lots of deep

(18:35):
wooded areas as well and stuff,but like Washington State,
oregon, where this film takesplace, these are rural, rural
places for the most part.
Yes, we have our portlands andour seattles, but like when you
get out there into to the backcountry, well it's, it's scary
so I love that about this movie,yeah, when blair underwood says
I need someone to talk to aboutmy beautiful mariners and then

(18:58):
you realize you're in the 90s.
I'm like, oh, this is the refuseto lose era.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah yeah, uh, I heard a couple, a couple whoo in
the theater, yeah, um, but yeah, I I think the setting is is
really great and I mean we'll,we'll get there when we get the
spoilers.
But definitely one of my scenesis like my favorite scenes in
the film is is like in northwestwoods, right like that, and and

(19:24):
I think that's that plays intowhy I love it so much, because
it is familiar and, at the sametime, you know, familiar in a
scary way, especially someonewho, like you know, spent, had a
cabin out in the woods right,growing up like spending a lot
of time out in the dark, quietwoods, that especially really,

(19:46):
really got to me.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
I mean, we just drove through the entire state of
Oregon last summer and I'mtelling you, once you get
outside of your big cities, likeyou, you're going through these
towns where you blink and youmiss them, type of deal, and so
I really really like that aboutthe film.
So that's kind of the where andthe when of the film, did you
think?

(20:07):
Well, I guess, before we getoff of the when part of it, our
movie starts in the 1970s andthen we don't really spend too
much time in the 80s but weprimarily focus on the 1990s, so
as, like a period piece, how doyou feel that worked?
Like this was obviously payinghomage to a lot of 90s thrillers
, so I did like that aspect ofit.

(20:28):
Um, because it it honestly asan independent feature.
maybe part of this was thebudget, but like it didn't have
the movie doesn't really havethat glitz of like a 2024
production the way that othermovies really do and you kind of
like almost can't believe thatit's a period piece, because
either, like people look toopretty or the cars are, you know

(20:49):
, they just like comemanufactured a different way, or
the way that the homes aredressed, like the art direction
and everything.
Do you feel like you wereimmersed in like a 1990s world?
You know, I didn't really.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
While experiencing the film, I wasn't really aware
of the 90s, I suppose, of itbeing in the 90s.
I felt like it could have beenat any time, even though the
lack of technology is is kind ofglaring.
But also I, I guess, maybe Ijust kind of like, was like well
, this is, this is a policeprocedural, like that's how that

(21:23):
goes, like we don't really use,you know, technology in those
stories we have our manilafolders and our case cards and
we're doing stuff on the flooryeah, and maybe that's because
all the best ones are set beforeyou know the internet so um, so
yeah, I don't know.
I guess I kind of thought it wastimeless, like it could have
been.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
It could have been now, it could have been then,
but uh, kind of in a way thatsomething like seven sort of
feels timeless, totally Right.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
Seven could take place tomorrow.
Um, but you know, obviouslyit's, it's set in the nineties
and I think, you know, I don'tknow, I never really have a
problem, even if it was set intoday, like I'm okay with, like
you know, no one ever pulls outa cell phone.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
Let's just take it out, you know, and like we're
just telling a story, Right, youknow, and we don't need to
worry about a cell phone or acomputer or anything and like
this movie did a good job ofnever going back to whatever the
fbi headquarters in portland orwherever it would have been at,
like there's no, there's noscene where you would have
really like a big, like we, weare at a police station a few

(22:35):
different times, but there's notreally the need for, um, like a
control room type of sceneright, where there would be like
where you would notice, oh,here's a bunch of computers
right.
Or, in this case, like here's abunch of typewriters, like I
think we're michael monroe'shouse and she does have a
typewriter, I believe, whenshe's like putting up some case
notes, or maybe it's like a veryearly computer, um, but yeah,

(22:56):
there's.
There's really not one momentwhere you feel like, oh, this is
honestly aside from like themanners line, honestly they
really don't do too much else toground the story in that time
period as this, as I mean, apartfrom just setting the movie in
the 90s, which I think you getfrom kind of the opening

(23:16):
sequence, to then knowing howold Michael Monroe's character
is you know, someone who's intheir late 20s, early 30s, so
that starts to make sense.
Okay, so then, so, so that'sreally the where and the when.
So how about, like the how, howthe movie was shot?
What did you respond to in thatsense?
What did you find interestingabout the filmmaking?
Did anything really like standout as a particular strength, or

(23:38):
do you think there were someweaknesses?

Speaker 2 (23:40):
oz is, uh, he is so good at composition, his shots,
his, you know they're flat buthave lots of depth.
It's slow, it's lingering, itmakes you search the screen.

(24:01):
One scene like where they gointo the.
They're like searching a barnand they walk, you know you're
with them going into the barn,and then they leave camera and
you're you're sitting therelooking out this barn door where
they had just come from, andagain it's voyeuristic.
It makes you feel like someoneis watching you from those woods

(24:25):
over there.
And so you're sitting upstraight and you're looking,
you're, you're searching that,that screen for for somebody or
a clue or something.
Um, so I really loved the wayhe makes you feel with his, with
his cinematography, the way hecomposes shots.
There's also another shot whereMicah's character is on a

(24:45):
payphone.
I guess that's anothertechnology that were in the 90s.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
Correct, yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
She does use a payphone at one time and she's
in some sort of public buildingI think it might be the police
station, yeah, or like CityMorgue.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Something like that.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah, using a payphone, and it's a wide shot
and it's interesting because she, like you, can barely see micah
she's very small in in the inthe shot and there's this huge
staircase in the middle, um, andat the top of the staircase
there's like this golden lightthat coming out of this doorway
at the top of the staircase andthen at the bottom of the

(25:24):
staircase where Micah is,there's like a really dark
hallway and then a exit that'slit up with like a red exit sign
, so like dark and with redtones, and that right there, I
mean that's heaven and hellright, and we're just we're
showing you on the screen andyes, she's on the phone with,
with a certain someone and likehaving a meaningful conference

(25:46):
conversation, but also, but likeI mean right there, I mean
that's that's the movie.
Right there we're showing youknow that, that that is such
good art direction, such goodvisual storytelling.
Um, I love.
I love when directors do that.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
It that scene?
Fans of Osgood and of the blackcoat's daughter, immediately, I
recognize that scene.
There's a scene where kieranshipka's character in the black
coat's daughter, is in a hallwayat her boarding school and she
goes to the payphone and thepayphone plays a pivotal role in
some conversations in that filmshot very much the same, and so

(26:21):
I saw that as like a littleEaster egg, a little throwback,
because there's a very simple.
A lot of the visualstorytelling is very similar in
what's trying to be communicatedright there.
So I love that.
But I totally agree with youwith the composition and the way
that certain characters are litamongst, like dark backdrops.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
Yeah, there's so many dark corners in this film.
And again, and, and where,where Oz puts the camera right,
like in a voyeuristic way, likeit.
It makes you search the screenso subconsciously really.
Cause cause.
It's not like you ever reallyfind anything when you're doing
that.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
But there'll be a lot of.
There'll be a lot of clutter onscreen that you're trying to
search through.
Maybe you're in the woods andyou're trying to search through
it.
A part of me was reminded ofthe way that, um, that I think,
and who knows if we're reallygoing to get this again, or
maybe we're getting it, but justin a more grandiose way and we
don't really notice it unless wereally stop to think about it.
But the way that, like dennyvilleneuve shot prisoners, I was

(27:25):
reminded a lot of um, some ofthe some of the scenes in this
film and long legs, because,same same sense of like there's
something more there's, there'sa puzzle on screen that I need
to try and figure out.
There's a clue in heresomewhere that I need to try to
find a lot, especially during,like, the david del smolchin
part of Prisoners, where thatreally becomes like a police

(27:48):
procedural right there.
So, again, just like a littleparallel that I was like this is
it's not trying to be prisonersin any sense of the way, really
, but like, just really reallygood visual storytelling, I
thought throughout most of thefilm.
Okay, so now we're going tostart to tread a little bit
lightly into spoilers because wewant to start talking about

(28:12):
some of the performances.
I think we save Nick Cage untilthe very end because then we're
going to be squarely intospoiler zone, obviously him not
being shown in the trailer.
They kept it a secret for areason.
We want to do that justice andkind of honor that in our
discussion, if you're stilllistening, having not seen the
film.
So let's kind of start withlike Micah Monroe, she carries

(28:33):
the film as this Claire ClariceStarling-esque young FBI agent.
Micah is that she's on theMount Rushmore for me, as far as
scream queens go here in the21st century, what'd you make of
her performance?

Speaker 2 (28:48):
yeah, I thought I thought she was great.
I mean to be to able to able tocarry a film but then also be
like extremely alienated and andisolated from everyone else in
the film, but then also make youroot for her at the same time.

(29:10):
She's great.
I thought she had some amazingline readings.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
Even some great comedic timing, as well as this
character.
Yeah, this movie has the samesort of warped sense of humor
that something like a twin peaksdoes with the special agent
dale cooper character where it'snot completely outrageous, like
how twin peaks almost becomeslike a soap opera sitcom at
times and that's superintentional.
But like the comedy in long legsis also intentional, like the
first scene with her and blairunderwood's daughter in her

(29:43):
bedroom, like that.
That moment is supposed to makeyou laugh a little bit and show
that this person, whetherthey're neurodivergent or, um,
you know, they just have somethey.
They just don't have the socialskills that that the rest of us
have.
I thought that was communicatedvery well and in an
entertaining, funny way, like inthat scene.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
She pulled that off brilliantly yeah, and micah
micah does so, so much with hereyes too, that, like you know,
without even speaking, you knowshe very much like, uh, you know
, jodie foster, in silence ofthe lambs, like the way she
moves and the way what she, howshe looks at things and and I
mean she's, she's just really,she seemed really really locked

(30:24):
into the role and knew exactlywhat to do, which is crazy,
because I read that like she waslike on the verge of quitting
acting Uh and, and then Oz likecame to her with this project
and she decided to do it, um,she's probably the she's one of
the biggest stars of 2024because of this film now, yeah,
so, thank God, please keepacting, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
Speaking of keep acting, someone who's just been
plugging away for a long time,blair Underwood I think kind of
the unsung hero of this film.
So he plays like the older kindof veteran partner to Monroe's
FBI character.
I mean I haven't seen him in aton of things but like he's
pretty iconic and set it off thef gary gray film from the 90s.

(31:08):
He kind of plays a jada pinkettlove um, love interest in that
film.
He's awesome in this movie likegood comedic timing plays the.
He plays the fbi agent in arural town.
So well we're like probably gota little bit of a drinking
problem but like a stable enoughhome life.
He's a good dad Um just likehits a lot of the nineties

(31:32):
federal bureau of investigationtropes um for me and I thought
played that archetype reallywell.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
Yeah, I think he, you know he uh, he's like the best
poor man Denzel we've ever seen.
Right, I mean, you know, Ithink he's just.
Yeah, I think he's wonderful inthis role and like he's got a
great voice.
Yeah, he's got a great.
You know he commands the screenwhen he's on there, but then

(32:02):
again also like like his dryhumor throughout is pretty good
and and he's a good he.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
he swears he.
I liked the way he swears.
It's a good cursor yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
He's a great cursor and, like you can, he's just so
believable as, like a, a chief.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
Yes, yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
And then I think this is where we're going to kind of
put the spoiler warning out,because got to talk about alicia
witt.
Um, she's unrecognizable inthis role as micah's mother.
Um, now alicia's like in herlate 40s I looked it up um but
you know, a kind of a screamqueen of um in her own right.
She was obviously in urbanlegend and kind of got a big
break there in the 90s with that.
But like she's again in one ofmy favorites, the episode of
anger lynch yep, she got a bigbreak there in the nineties with
that, but like she's again inone of my, favorites the upside
of anger.
Yep, she's in, yep she's in thereturn, uh Dune.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
Oh, and in Dune she's the child and that's, that's
awesome Um and so I mean hercharacter.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
When you first, when you first meet her, you feel
like there's something off abouther, her.
You feel like there's somethingoff about her, um, but but I
feel like that's really justlike that's more of the way that
alicia's understanding thecharacter and the way that she's
portraying someone who like um,you know, not like an, an
elderly woman, but it reminds mea little bit of like jennifer

(33:19):
ely and saint maude, somebodywho, like you're, like I know
this person isn't as old as theperson who they are playing, but
they're doing such a good joband making me feel uncomfortable
, like something else is goingon here and so, whether it's
like early on she said dementia,like we're not really sure what
is happening with her character, but you have, you, you know

(33:39):
that her and her daughter havethis like not quite estranged
relationship, but that likethere's some tension between
them and the fact that micahneeds to keep making these phone
calls and when she's callingher mom and her mom doesn't
answer right away, and she'sasking her what's taking you so
long to answer the phone?
And just like a lot of littlesubtle things happen at the

(34:01):
beginning of this film, whenintroduced to her character that
I think then make a lot ofsense in the third act.
So I thought she was like astandout for me in this movie.
The more and more I think aboutit, I'm like she really I mean
as as someone who is as integralto the plot as she is, they do
a really good job of just likekind of slowly turning up the

(34:22):
heat on on the importance of hercharacter.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
I thought that was well paced yeah, when she enters
the story, I'm immediatelysuspicious of her.
I thought she I.
I didn't care for her, herperformance or her role in this
interesting this film I I, I,really I.
I lose some luster with thismovie when this character comes

(34:46):
into the story, because I don'tknow.
I just feel like what happensis so telegraphed from, because
as soon as, as soon as we havethat first phone call, the first
thing I'm thinking is likeshe's long legs or something,
something that we're gettinginto spoilers now, of course.
Yeah, uh, she's long legs orsomething something that we're
getting into spoilers now, ofcourse, yeah, uh, she's long

(35:07):
legs or you know something'swrong with this person and you
know she doesn't sound right.
Obviously you were talkingabout that.
But like, yeah, I thought, Ijust kind of thought she was in,
which is interesting, becauseyou know we'll talk about Nick
cage and how much.
But I think Alicia Witt is kindof in a different movie.

(35:34):
She just doesn't feel right forthe world that Micah and Blair
Underwood are performing in.
But then also, again, I justthink the whole thing is
telegraphed because there are atotal of four characters in this
movie, pretty much that you'respending time with and like it's

(35:59):
I don't know I, when it camedown to like well, somebody's
helping long legs, I mean, whoelse could it be?
It's not Blair, it's not BlairUnderwood.
That would be very cheesy and Idon't think the right choice
either.
But yeah, I don't know, aliciaWitt is kind of where it loses a

(36:22):
little luster for me.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
So we'll start to talk about the pairing now, I
guess, between Alicia Witt andNick Cage.
But I do just want to give onemore quick shout-out to kind of
like the I guess she's likebatting.
Fifth in the lineup, um isKiernan Shipka, a return
collaborator of Osgood Perkins.
She's the other detective.
No, she.
She comes in as someone who hasum survived a long legs attack

(36:45):
and she's in a mental hospitaland she delivers just like such
a good monologue.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
She was great.
Yeah, uh, such a good monologue.
She was great.
Yeah, uh, I would have loved tosee like more, more time spent
there or with her, like when wewere going, and I was like, okay
, yeah, we're gonna talk tomaybe there's more survivors,
you know that, that was veryinteresting.
Yeah, yeah, she was, she wasreally good her, her part's
awesome.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
So, okay, when, when it comes to the way, the way
that I really see this and againnow I'm I'm just going back to
what I know and what I grew upon, and that is like Twin Peaks
and the way to tell a detectivestory, when you're going to
introduce some supernatural,religious context to it and

(37:30):
begin to take the story outsideof our world, introduce
otherworldly forces, and so themore I'm thinking about it and
I've been dying to re-watch thisfilm, like I'm, either tonight
or tomorrow well, not tomorrow,because we're going to get to
what's happening tomorrow nightbut, I'm definitely going to
find time to watch this for asecond time in the theater,

(37:50):
because I do.
I do want to go back and seemaybe how clear it is and how
many clues and like is theresome intentionality behind
painting the alicia wittcharacter and maybe the way you
saw it?
Because when I think about twinpeaks and I think about the
character of leland palmer andnow we've already said spoiler

(38:10):
warnings, now I'm going to spoiltwin peaks for you guys, but
guess what?
It's been out since the 90s um,you've had your time.
when I think about leland palmerin the way that he is so
obviously the one who is beingpossessed by bob, and now david
lynch does a great job over thefirst season of of giving you
little red herrings and makingyou think it could be some other

(38:33):
people.
But it is sort of that trope oflike.
It's always the evil that youcan't see that it's the closest
to you and that like will hurtthe most to the main protagonist
if it comes true.
So I think about that a lotwhen it comes to Long Legs,
because the way that Nick Cageas the titular character of Long

(38:55):
Legs is really just kind oflike the conduit for this
unnamed evil force and we seeglimpses of this evil
personified a little bit andsome terrifying imagery of this
black hooded figure with thesered eyes, and Cage refers to it
as the man downstairs.
So I love that parallel line oflike that's that's basically

(39:18):
the Bob, that's that's the evilentity that is that is
presenting these, these forces,these evil forces into the world
.
And so whether it's twin peaksand it's the black lodge, or
it's this film and it's the mandownstairs, and you're able to
then really like kind of takeover another person's psyche in

(39:40):
the way that they're behaving.
And now, like I've never heardbecause I've never heard
somebody talk about twin peaksin in a negative, when referring
to leland, laura palmer'sfather being the, the, the bad
guy, the essentially where, likeyou would never watch twin

(40:02):
peaks and say, like, well, howcould laura never know that it's
her father that is sexuallyassaulting her every night, like
she would like what it's?
Because, whether it's throughher trauma, the way that she's
processing it in these externalforces that are making her see
it as bob, I get that in thisstory where, like, even if maybe

(40:26):
we as an audience member cansee it happen, I can put myself
in michael monroe's character'sshoes and be like she she is.
She doesn't want to see it thisway, as much as she might think
it is, and there's like a littleitch in the back of her brain
and that's why she's makingthese phone calls home and
that's why she's checking up onher mom and that's why she's
asking her things like how comeyou didn't answer the phone

(40:48):
right away when I called?
There's something in the backof her mind that tells her
something's wrong and that shehas this like lost childhood and
I think that's conveyed reallywell, with her mom being a
hoarder.
She's hanging on to these emptythings, these spoiled things,
because she can't get over thefact that, like she spoiled her
own daughter's childhood growingup basically.

(41:09):
So I can, I see that and Irespond again really well to it,
just being a student of twinpeaks and of these crime
thrillers from the 90s, and notthat like seven or silence of
the lambs brings in anysupernatural forces, but like
when you can pull off a marriageof that and in my opinion I
think they pulled this offpretty well.

(41:29):
I'm gonna respond to it in theway that I did in longlegs case
and think that like that'spretty great, like that's that's
, and for me that was like thatmade a lot of sense to me and
also too, cause, like we findout that there has been this
doll of the Michael Monroe'scharacter this entire time.
So even if she has certainpsychic ability, she's very like

(41:50):
counterintuitive, like she's's,she's able to see things in a
way that other people can't,kind of like how the dale cooper
character can, can see thingsthat people can't.
There's still this force where,like dale cooper at one point
is in the black lodge.
Half of his spirit is there andit's clouding his judgment.
Micah munro's character hasthis doll with this black metal

(42:11):
core that, like long legs, andher mother are using to also
kind of like influence some ofher behavior or at least block
her ability to just like knowexactly what's happening.
So I I thought it was all themore and more I've thought about
it.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
I think that, like I think it was played really well
yeah, I mean, I I think it'sclever to dress this up as
silence of the lambs, but thenreally it's about parents, how
far your parents will go toprotect you, how far they'll lie
to you, which really comes backto osgood and his upbringing.

(42:50):
I'm sure, uh, with anthonyperkins being his father, um,
and actually I've I've I'veheard and read oz talk about
that and that was kind of he waslike how do I get people into
the theater to tell that side ofthe story you know, okay, well,
I'll dress it up as a horrorserial killer movie, but then

(43:14):
really, it's, it's, it's afamily it's about.
It's a family drama, right, it'sabout family trauma, uh, and,
and I respect that and that's,and I I do think it's a great,
great bait, and I don't want tosay bait and switch.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
I don't want to say bait and switch but there is a
little bit, because a lot ofpeople go to this movie because
they think they're going to seeNick cage, in a ridiculous
outfit with a kitchen knife,committing a bunch of satanic
murders, totally, totally.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
And that would have fucking rocked too.
That would have been cool, um,but yeah, I so I do I do like
that he was going for somethingmuch more on a on a deeper level
, right, uh, a deeper personallevel.
Um, and I don't know, maybe I'mmaybe cause we just kind of saw
this in Maxine, but I just didnot respond.

(44:05):
I did not respond the way youdid where I was, I was just like
why I don't?
know, I just felt like thestakes become yes, they become
personal to Micah's character,which is important in the movie,
but then it becomes lowered aswell.

(44:26):
And not that you know, we don'tneed the supernatural in there,
we don't need.
You know, long legs ends up,you know, exiting the film.
Uh, that's fine, that's, that'sall good, and I'll, I'll even
go with these dolls and thismetal ball with the black evil

(44:47):
in it, um, but like I, I justdon't know why we have to make
it that long legs is playingthis whole time, since the 70s
was all revolving all aroundthis one character, Micah.
I just have a hard time goingalong with that, yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
I feel like, so I feel like long legs his, his
character, at least the nickcage character.
I don't know if that ever waslike his plan, like on but he's
living in their basement right,but that isn't until alicia
witt's character, the mother,makes this deal.
She says this in this greatmonologue.
I love it.
The aspect ratio comes back tothis like rounded box, this four

(45:31):
, three aspect, and we get thisreally cool, um, like bridge
between the second and third act.
That really establishes, like,why we are where we are and I I
really am of the belief thatlike long legs himself didn't
really know what he was gettinginto.

(45:52):
He's not like great at his jobas as this like child murderer
or as this like maybe justperson who's gonna abduct some
kids, like I don't really thinkhe knows what his plan is.
And then he gets to thisfarmhouse in the 1970s and he's
confronted by this parents, byby this child's parent, and she

(46:12):
makes this deal, she's able tohave the conviction to make this
deal with him.
Basically, that is like I willdo your dirty work if you let my
daughter live, which we've seenthat in horror films before.
I was thinking most recently ofyou Won't Be Alone, the really
cool Mastodonian witch film.
Basically that follows the samekind of um, uh plot line where

(46:38):
this, this, um, this wolf eater,this, this witch of sorts, has
come into this village and she'sgonna take a child and the
mother makes a deal with herthat like just let me have my
kid until their 18th birthday orwhatever, and let me have my
childhood with them, but then,once they turn 18 or maybe it's
16, that phone, but then likethey're yours and you can have
them or whatever.
Very, very interesting conceptthere, so something similar here

(47:01):
, and so that's.
That's kind of where I'm at,where I'm thinking like I don't
really think long legs plan allalong was for this to like end
up circling back, because then,yeah, sooner or later that's's
gonna kind of like bite him inthe ass.
But then that's just where thisstory gets interesting, because
what happens then, uh, is he isable to lean further and further
into his like satanic obsession.

(47:23):
The mother um becomes more andmore complicit, and yet, all the
while, the child that's beingraised turns out to be like an
fbi agent.
And now you can say, like whatare the, what are the odds, you
know kind of deal.
But that's just, that's beingraised turns out to be like an
FBI agent.
And now you can say, like whatare the, what are the odds, you
know kind of deal.
But that's just, that's.
That's movies.
Like you have to tell sort ofan interesting story that way,
because I, I I do think thatlong legs is is this guy who,

(47:44):
like you know, I was thinking.
Another thing I was thinking alot about was when watching the
show criminal minds, whenwatching this movie, because
I've heard that that peopledescribe this as like the
greatest criminal minds episodeever.
Oh, interesting, okay, yeah um,because I think and I think a
lot of like um, even thoughthere's a lot of characters I

(48:05):
like, more than the shamar morecharacter on that show, but like
shamar more, who I believe hisname is like honcho or something
like that, um, um, in the inthe show he's always somebody
that can come in and just kindof tell these serial killers, um
, or these predators, whoeverthe bad guy of the week is, that
like you're just kind of like apiece of shit You're, you're a

(48:26):
weak guy and like you'repathetic, and the fact that
you're doing this and we caughtyou, like yeah, it serves you,
right that's.
I don't think that.
That's like I don't need theblair underwood character to
have had a scene with nick cage,like that or whatever, but like
that, that's just kind of likethe vibes that I'm getting from
from nick cage in this movie,where like he is terrifying but

(48:47):
also like you know, he's just agross guy.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
Like when he goes to that that shop or whatever that
camera shop and the girl behindthe counter is like dad, creepy
guys gross guys back again yeahlike he and and I think I think
that is part of the part of thethinking that, like, listen, any
serial killer out there, anyperson like this is, is really
just a gross person.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
Just a gross person who gets off and who's never
been killed and who's neverreally been like told or
confronted by anybody that likeyour shit's weak man like what
you know and they just kind ofget to go unchecked.
So I don't know that's.
That's just the dynamic that Isee between between the alicia
wood character and nick's cagecharacter, where, like, she

(49:28):
enabled him to just continue totap into these evil forces, to
strengthen his relationship withthe man downstairs, to to get
better at doing these evil deeds, and then, of course, it comes
back to bite him in the end.
Um, but it's I, it's justreally it's I.
I love when this happens.

(49:49):
I was talking to somebody theother day and I was like max and
I are gonna have a greatconversation about this because
we saw the movie differently,yeah, um, but, but we saw the
same.
We saw the same thing but kindof differently because this is
totally one of those movies andyou did a really good job
explaining it earlier where Ifeel like what, what happens in
the movie, is not what themovie's about.
Yeah, totally where, like ithas these deeper meanings to

(50:11):
family and family trauma and howwe protect our children and the
paths we create for ourselves.
Kind of how everything iscyclical but like on the surface
, it is Nick Cage beingoutrageously terrifying.
He's really good.

(50:31):
What did you make of our guygoing full send in this movie.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
I mean, I, I, the way the first off, the cold open to
this film is some of the bestlike cold open shit I've ever
seen, like that was so good andhow you're you're shooting him
Cause, cause again.
The whole marketing thing iswe're not showing Nick cage at

(50:58):
all.
And they don't show Nick cagein this in the film for at least
the first hour and a half andit is brilliant and it is so
scary and what's he?
What he's doing with his voice,how he looks, the fact that, uh
, you know, like he's wearingall white as opposed to all

(51:20):
black, uh is is really likeupsetting.

Speaker 1 (51:24):
well, and I think it was introduced so great in that
cold open because it's a snowy,isolated situation, and so the
fact that he's wearing all whiteup against this white backdrop
and just kind of again, is thisperson that can blend in.
He can be the person next door,he can be the person who's down
in the basement.
He's this like unseen face.

(51:45):
He's this unseen presence thatcould be right next door.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
Yeah, and yeah.
I thought nicholas cage wasbrilliant.
Now is there a little bit oflike once you show the shark.
How scary is the shark going onwhen we finally do see him when
he's brought in?
Uh, for the interrogation scenewhich is, you know, in any sort
of grand finale though?

Speaker 1 (52:09):
yeah, so I thought that was gotta it's and it's
gotta happen yeah he does look alittle.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
He does look a little funny you know, but, but like,
but.
At the same time he's.
It also gives his charactermore, more depth than you know
that he's gotten these plasticsurgeries that obviously have
been very botched, yeah, um youknow that puffy cheeks the puffy
lips the the curly long, longcurly hair.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
It looks like freaking Dee Snider Speaking of
Maxine again.
I think it's so funny that,like Dee Snider totally is in
the beginning of Maxine and thenI'm like he's definitely got
some, some Dee Snider to him.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
And you know, and you get that too, when he's, you
know he sings throughout themovie.
He does a couple differentmusical numbers where he sings
some sort of, you know, glam,rock, metal, heavy metal song
where he's just doing yeah, he'sdoing the loud voices in the
car.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
Yeah, mommy daddy, like and I can.
And now that's again where,like, if you, if you can get
yourself to the point where youare immersed and caught up in
this world to the point where,like you understand, just kind
of like maybe, yeah, it's, it'spathetic, um, but it's also like
terrifying and it's sad.
It's all these other thingsthat aren't funny in a way that,

(53:25):
like you, would laugh in thetheater, because that's where I
know a lot like.
I've read a lot of my friendsreviews on letterbox and they're
like my theater, sucked, sucked.
They were all laughing at Nickcage.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
I had a couple of laughers in my, in my theater,
yeah, so like it does, suckCause, yeah, yeah, cause there's
there's moments for it.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
There's definitely moments for it.
And again, if you're madeuncomfortable, like I'm not
going to sit here, like I wasstraight faced throughout, like
I had a shit eating grin on myface the whole time because I
was enjoying myself, but like Iwas not going to laugh.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
Anytime Cage was on screen, I was genuinely creeped
out.
Well, and there's really good.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
Dude back to the cold open Right before the title
card hits.
That's one of the best, and Idon't even know if it's really a
jump scare.
I guess it is.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
But just like the reveal and the sound of when he
like, he lowers well it's, it'sso quick, it's so good.
That is what nightmares is madeof.
Right like it reminds you knowwhat it tapped into me.
I have a huge fear of the childnapper from chitty chitty sure
like yeah, I was scarred as akid watching that movie and
there's some similarities goingon with like the pale white skin
, now you know, and like theweird nose and shit.

(54:44):
So that's what was tapping intome while I was watching.
I was freaked out by Cage and Iloved it and I hate.
I've also read that he has comeout and said you know, I'm
never going to play a serialkiller again.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Oh, interesting.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
I don't like violence and I did not like this process
.
Interesting Proud of the movieyeah.

Speaker 1 (55:07):
I mean, he's a producer on the film.
He certainly believed in it,yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
And I was like no, I want more the film.
Yeah, certainly believed in it.
Yeah, and I was like no, I wantmore.
Because cage is someone who,like, good or bad, whatever he
does, he commits right and heand swings, uh, you know, it's
like one pitch.
He swings like four times, um,and I, I just really appreciate

(55:33):
that.
Uh, and listen, he's made, he'sdone that really shitty shit
and he's done really amazingshit.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
Well, this is going to be something.
Whether he, I guess, likes itor not, there's going to be, I
mean, still photos and screengrabs of long legs for for the
next decade the, the iconographyof this film will probably
become iconic.
Oh, the composition that you'retalking about.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
It's gonna make for a ton of really good screen grabs
for sure like once this hits ondemand and everything, people
can get high resolution, and youknow, you know I think I said
this in my letterbox like longlegs, the character should,
should be a up there with, like,with with the villains of
horror, right, like what aniconic, like, like singular

(56:19):
image of a villain.
Yeah, um, so yeah, I, I thoughthe was great.
It's so funny, kaylee.
I went and saw this with kaylee.
She had no idea nicholas cagewas in the movie.
She didn't recognize him I meanthat, that yeah that's how,
that's how you know, and I thinkmaybe if you didn't know, yeah,
you would have troublerecognizing him, um, but I mean,

(56:42):
that's that's how integrated hewas into the role I think the
other thing too, that about thisis that I think production on
the film was only a little, alittle longer than a month and
now cage is probably on screenfor 20 minutes out of a 140
minute runtime.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
But I can only imagine, like I can only wait to
see the behind the scenesfeatures of him in the makeup
chair and just having to see theprocess of him getting into
character, because I don't thinkhe's one of these guys that
goes like full method, but itwould be.
I'd be hard pressed to believethat like that.
You know, I think the one, thethe really cool behind the
scenes thing that I have heard,and I think this is going to

(57:20):
start to kind of go down as likesome lore, some like horror
legend type of stuff or like thenumber one imdb trivia fact for
the movie or whatever.
But micah monroe's characterwas not shown, nick Cage, in
full makeup until theirinterrogation scene together,
brilliant, and one of the soundtechs who had Micah mic'd up for

(57:44):
the film could measure herheart rate.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, did you hear about this?
I have heard about this.
Yeah, this is going gonnabecome the newest trend.

Speaker 1 (57:55):
oh, to say something like this right this, but like
apparently her heart rate spikedto like 140 or something the
first time she saw him herherself, like obviously she's in
character and she plays out thescene that way, but like she's
genuinely terrified of whatshe's looking at during the
movie and so I love, just like Ieat stuff up.

Speaker 3 (58:12):
Like tell me all the little anecdotes like that that
are just going to make me again.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
Yeah, just like.
Build up this movie as kind ofthis, this piece of iconography,
whether or not like and now Iwill say like, it's not just
long legs, like this.
This the visual representationof the man downstairs, this
black hooded figure with the redeyes, you see it.

Speaker 3 (58:32):
a couple of times.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
There's a few other scenes where you get to see
Micah Monroe's character whenshe's really young, and again
it's a dimly lit room andthere's this really imposing
shadow behind her.
That is a figure.
Reminds me a lot of the BlackHood's Daughter and some of the
imagery in that film you get acouple.

(58:59):
You know my mom really wantedto see this film.
When I said, ma, as someone whois, I know you are deathly
afraid of snakes, can't see thismovie.
Like there's snakes, there's alot of really, and again
something that just kind of likerandomly reminded me of
prisoners but like, just likethe snakes, a lot of the, the
smash cuts, the quick imagerythat you get, um, really just
like create an unsettlingatmosphere for a lot of this
film.
The dolls themselves I'm comingaround on the dolls I usually
like when something like youknow, kind of there's an uncanny

(59:20):
valley aspect to like, oh, Ijust don't like looking at that
because it doesn't look quitehuman.
So I'm not quite sure where Isit with that yet, with that yet
.
But no, for the most part Ithought that like the delivery
of the story it was at a goodpace and I love the third act,

(59:42):
bait and switch and kind of this, like return to once.
You take out long legs it's alot like almost taking out Janet
Lee's character in psycho, andthen you're like what's this
movie going to become?
You know, and now again need togo back and see exactly how
telegraphed that is and and feellike and and to really wrap my
head around like how muchintention is there behind making
um Mike Monroe's care, her, hermother's character have so much

(01:00:03):
to do with it?
Um, as far as like, should webe able to see that coming?
Like.
Well, once you know that, doesit make a second viewing more
effective or less effective?
Like I've just who's to say yetUm, once you know that, does it
make a second viewing moreeffective or less effective?
Like I've just who's to say yetUm, but is there anything else,
just kind of like, about thestory, any other sort of like
gripes that you maybe had?
Um or something else that youenjoyed that we haven't given a
shout out to?
Excuse me Um would you make itthe final like five minutes of

(01:00:30):
the movie, cause I had a reallyunique experience in my theater
where I think that montage thatbridges the second and the third
act it does a good job of justlike telling you very explicitly
what's going to happen If oneof these dolls is presented into
this world in real time andMicah has to like quote unquote

(01:00:53):
solve the case and then thatends up happening with Blair
Underwood and his family and Ihad through through my
peripheral vision, I could see afew other people in the same
row as me in my theater.
We all just kind of leanforward and we had like a little
posture check moment and wesort of just locked in, which I
thought was really effective,because then once you know you

(01:01:14):
see one of these dolls and whenyou can tell that blair
underwood's character's actingvery differently, you know he's
almost got that.
He's gone full james brolin inamityville, where you're like
we've lost the dad um, which isanother really good whore trope.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Didn't she shoot the doll earlier?
And that's kind of what setsher free.

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
The mother shoots the doll, okay, and Micah Monroe
then blacks out Because againit's taking away some of her
mental capacity in the moment,because that moment knocked her
out.
And so then she knows that ifshe shoots the doll in this
situation it's going to dosomething similar to blair
underwood's daughter, um, butyes, she does end up doing it.
But I just that there was a lotof tension in in my theater and

(01:02:04):
for me personally watching thatscene, so I thought the movie
again, because it's really hardto end a horror movie right.
I thought this movie endedpretty well.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
Yeah, I thought, I thought it was okay.
I again I think at that pointof the story, because I'm not
bought in with the mother beingthe big bad, um, and being the
one who is doing these murders.
Um, I'm, I'm, I'm a little likewhat's the right word, I guess

(01:02:41):
I'm, I'm, I'm, probably, I'm.
In the moment I'm a littleconfused of like.
So, because we, like, we shootthe doll micah passes out, wakes
up in Longlegs' dungeon, yeah,which happens to be below her
mother's house.
So then she, and somehow, ifI'm not remembering this right,

(01:03:03):
somehow we know that her mom hasgone to the Underwoods.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Is it the birthday party, the birthday party, and
the daughter has a birthday onthe 14th.
Birthday on the 14th birthdayon the 14th, okay, and so yeah,
so micah has to go and get there, and I think she's also going
there anyways, just because shenow knows that's been her first
opportunity to go.
Tell her partner, right, rightin a world with no cell phones.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
Yeah, who?
Who's behind this?
Right, right, uh, yeah, andthen we get in there and it is a
little bit of like a, you know,a standoff or whatever.
But like and I guess I guessbecause of Micah's character and
the way she is portrayed, andlike socially inept, I guess
would be a good word is why shedoesn't just run in there and be

(01:03:50):
like this is what is happening,you know.
Uh, she is like kind of frozen.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
Well, she's also realizing that, like in this
moment, I probably have to shootmy mom.
Yeah, I have to kill my mom.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
Yeah, um, which which then she does, which was, which
was great.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
I was happy that happened, um, but yeah, yeah she
doesn't just like put one inher leg either.
No, right through the head.

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
Go for it, yeah um, so yeah, I, I don't know, I, I,
I that that ending, I think, isfine, but then how do you feel
about then?
We cut back to long legs in theinterrogation room and he's
like hail satan and he winks atthe camera.

(01:04:33):
Do you think that's just likesome extra candy that happens,
or do you think, uh, it's almostlike a.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
That is how the movie ends, right, you thought I was
dead, but no, I'm not.
He's definitely dead.
I feel like, yeah, I guess Ihaven't really thought about
that very, very last, becausethose are the last words you
hear right before the creditsroll.
Is the Hail Satan?
Yeah, no, no, I guess it's alittle bit.
That kind of reminded me ofRosemary's Baby, baby a little

(01:05:04):
bit, where everybody's at theNew Year's Eve party.
The year is one.
The year is one.
Hail Satan, hail Satan, andkind of like.
Now there's, you know, we'veopened up Pandora's box, like
the man from downstairs is.
He's up, he's amongst us.
You know Bob has left the BlackLodge.
He is running wild through thistown, like dan is born yeah,

(01:05:27):
he's just the evil's gonna hopfrom one person to to the next.
Um, I don't really get thissense, though, that that was
trying to be baby in any type ofway.
Um, probably just me.
And now, whether that's astudio thing or that was osgood
saying like I want the lastingimage of this film, even though
we've been away from Nick Cagein Long Legs for like 30 minutes
or whatever I want.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
Long Legs to live.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
I want Long Legs to be the thing that people
remember, the lasting image.
So yeah, I guess, as that beinglike the true end of the movie,
I guess I can see if there'ssome intentionality behind it
and I can kind of understandwhat that might be.
But at the same time, like I,just I'm I'm left thinking about

(01:06:10):
that showdown at at the house,at the, at the birthday party,
and and I thought that wasreally like I was, I was all in
on that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
Yeah, I guess maybe I just wasn't feeling that much
tension from it due to, you know, unfortunately, I think I just
I kind of checked out a littlebit when, when I maybe I guess
when long legs leaves the movie,even though, like again, I
think that's an okay move.

(01:06:39):
I think that's a good move.

Speaker 1 (01:06:42):
Because to see, to see one of these killings play
out in real time is what's beenhappening for decades and
decades and decades, and that'sanother part of the story that I
think is so scary.
Is that like and this moviedoes a really good job of really
not actually like showing toomuch of the violence that
happens in the films and likeeven in that scene where, like

(01:07:02):
blair, underwood's wife saysshe's going to go into the
kitchen and then he just looksat her and he's like, oh, you
won't be coming back.

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
And then you hear her being stabbed in the kitchen.
You don't see it, but you hearit happening.
There's a really smart andeffective moment where the next,
the one family that is found inreal time while the killings
are happening at the beginningof the movie, and Micah's
character maybe it's BlairUnderwood's character, but they
ask how long they've been dead,they peel back the sheets and

(01:07:28):
there's maggots everywhere andthey're like they've been like
this for at least a month.
That's another part of the filmthat I think is really
effective and really unsettlingis that just like these things
can happen and no one knowsabout them, and so I really I
really liked that Part of likethat end scene.

(01:07:50):
I think really showed us if thecase hadn't been cracked, this
would be another one of those.
Now, this guy being ahigh-profile FBI agent, somebody
would have checked on him andit wouldn't have taken a month
for someone to go looking forhim.
But it just would have been oneof these things that happens in
a house that you might bedriving by, that you might be
walking by, that you might livenext door to, and you're never
going to know about it.
So I just I don't know.
I've yet to give this movie arating on Letterboxd because I

(01:08:14):
want to watch it for a secondtime.
I'm not sure if it's a.
It's a weird one to label forme because I just, I really,
really, really liked it.
Like I put it, it's number fiveright now on my list for the
year, but I also don't thinkit's like a five-star film.
You know, and we talked aboutthis at our live show, where we
we recorded the live show on theafternoon that I was going to

(01:08:36):
go see this movie, and I talkedabout just the excitement that
comes with something like this,where, like in my top 20, and we
were doing a mountain rush moredown the episode down there,
and so I was kind of talkingabout how, in my top 20, there,
there we go on a run ofcontemporary quote-unquote
horror films that are goes,midsommar, raw and then climax.
None of those movies are asscary as long legs.

(01:09:00):
Long legs is scarier than allthree of those movies, but I
just think, like thecohesiveness of those three
movies and how impressed I amwith like the building of the
cult out in Switzerland and theemotional attachment that I have
to something like Raw, thetechnical, like just incredible

(01:09:21):
ability to pull off somethinglike Climax, like all of those
set it apart and like made thoselike instant classics for me.
I still think that this isgoing to go down as like kind of
an, an Alex McCauley classic umfrom the 21st century, but
again, I'm just like I don'tknow.
What does that mean, though,like does that mean it's a a
four and a half star movie.
Maybe it's like it's anotherone of these good kind of

(01:09:55):
gateway movies for folks thatare willing to take a deep dive
into, like the serial killergenre, because I think it has a
lot going for it in terms oflike the bait and switch aspect
that that you brought up earlier, where it starts as a
procedural, it maintains thatnature, but then also, too, it
creates this like otherworldlysupernatural.
Yeah, vibe, that like I.

(01:10:16):
I understand that if, like,that's just not really your cup
of tea and you haven't watchedsomething like twin peaks or
you're just used and you're justused to like open shut, this
takes place in you know, sometown in oregon and like the
rules of some town, oregon arethe same rules as the town that
I live in.
That's not really the case withthis movie.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
Yeah, I think I think I would have responded a little
better if, if there is nosupernatural right, like if
she's not, if Micah's characterisn't made to be a psychic or
clairvoyant or whatever.
If long legs isn't, he canworship Satan, please.
I love a good Satanist.

Speaker 1 (01:10:57):
What a year for religious horror, man.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
But it's like there's no, like magic, evil magic,
yeah, and I think that's kind ofwhere I lose a little footing,
where I prefer something morelike you know, something like
Seven that does have religionand like A weird ideology, yeah,

(01:11:19):
weird ideology but is stillvery like in the real world.
But you know, hey, that's's allgood.
There's plenty of those movieszodiac I got, zodiac I got, I
got every fincher movie.
Yeah, memories of murder likethey're out there.
I just a dragon tattoo.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
I just started watching cure on the criterion
channel it's available to streamright there.
I got like 40 minutes into itpretty good.
Another one of these likethrillers that is really scary.
Um, I definitely recommend itand again, I haven't finished it
, um, but really enjoying thatone.

Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
Yeah, that's been on my list for a long time.
I will say that it definitelydeserves a second watch, long
legs, and even I will be givinga second watch.
But, man, you were so rightabout this year in horror and
how I think it will be a reallyimportant year going forward.

(01:12:17):
Because, thinking about this,thinking about I Saw the TV Glow
thinking about In a ViolentNature, thinking about Late, saw
the tv glow.
Thinking about in a violentnature, thinking about late
night with the devil, all ofthese movies are coming out and
they're trying to do stuff thatwe haven't seen in the genre
really before.
They're trying new things, um,they're taking swings and like,

(01:12:41):
and even the first omen, really,and you just love to see it.
It's just, it's so exciting and, and you know, not that who,
who knows if any of those willend up being like all timers.
I mean, I think the first omenis listen, we, we, we are
building the hall of fame forthe first omen.

(01:13:02):
Yes, right now, uh, as we speak, speak comes out on physical
July 30th.
Um, but yeah, who knows howthese other movies will age?
But, man, it's going to be sointeresting to see how they, how
they, how you watch them, orhow how they watch, you know, in
five years, 10 years.

Speaker 1 (01:13:24):
I didn't see this with you, but I did tell you
going in um as you were goinginto your screening, that like I
had to look away from six orseven trailers because, yes,
we've already gotten all thosefilms that you're talking about,
but before, this is a trailerfor trapped, yeah, there's a
trailer for alien romulus.
There's a trailer for thesubstance yeah, like cuckoo, all

(01:13:47):
these movies still to come, um,I saw the cuckoo one.

Speaker 2 (01:13:50):
I did not see those first three.
Uh, I was still out in the line.
But cuckoo looks dope.
I know cuckoo looks dope,fucking uh.
What was it?
Anora looks great.
I don't know if that's reallyhorror.
That's more kind of thrilleryeah, drama thriller, drama,
thriller.
Um, what was, oh heretic?

(01:14:13):
Yeah, I've seen that.
Now that looks.
I've seen that trailer.
Now, uh afraid.
Have you seen the trailer forafraid?
Yeah, we saw that, uh, beforemaxine together.

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
Yeah, uh, yeah, sign me up like scary, ai.
Yeah, come on.

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
That's awesome, okay, so that's, that's good.
Any last words on I like justsee it again, see it twice.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
See it again.
See it again.

Speaker 1 (01:14:39):
See it again.

Speaker 2 (01:14:39):
we're saying yeah definitely yeah uh and and
listen, know that it's not thescariest thing you've ever seen
in the world it's creepy it'sunsettling, it's full of dread,
but like don't go in you know,especially, I would say, if
you're a student of the gameyeah right if you're a student
of the game and you go inthinking that you're about to

(01:15:01):
feel the same way that you feltwhen you saw the exorcist when
you were 14, like it's not goingto be the case.

Speaker 1 (01:15:07):
Not, not, not the deal, nope, okay, so that'll do
it for us in this week's episode.
Summer 2024 keeps bringing thenoise, of course, so, as we just
mentioned in the horror genre,however, we will be back next
podcast to talk about the futurebest picture winner, put it in
the library of congress.
Now we finally get to ride ourfears and not chase them.

(01:15:28):
Twisters hits theaters thisweekend, and it's a good thing
because, frankly, I couldn'thave waited much longer.
I feel like I was just talkingto somebody else about this.
It's coming at the perfect timeright now, where summer has
been mostly inundated withhorror films and family films,
so we've gotten a lot ofanimated stuff that has done

(01:15:50):
really, really well at the boxoffice inside out.
Two is, I think, over like 1.3or 1.4 billion worldwide right
now, which is like so awesome.
You've also gotten despicableme 4, I believe, which has made
over 100 million dollars.
You have all these horrormovies, but now, smack dab in
the middle, is this just liketraditional action summer

(01:16:10):
blockbuster?
I have my tickets.
Are you joining me tomorrownight for the early access?
I'm at screening.
I hope so.
Okay, I cannot wait fortwisters.
I don't know what else we'regoing to do Like this episode.
You know you're about to hearour conversation with our good
buddy derek nunn, but like thisepisode was just a long legs
deep dive.
Who knows, maybe we will justhave an embezzlement of riches

(01:16:32):
coming out of twisters and wecan just do a full episode on
how much?
We loved it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:35):
I don't know I can't believe lee isaac chun made a
fucking twisters movie.

Speaker 1 (01:16:39):
Let's go glenn powell coming out of Minari.
I didn't know what we weregoing to get next from Lee.
I knew it was going to be great, had no idea it was going to be
Twisters.
And here we are.
What a time, oh my gosh.
So yeah, that'll be awesome.
We're now going to go to ourconversation with Derek Nunn.

(01:17:01):
This was recorded at our EdisonSquare live show, which was
last Thursday.
We also want to mention that ifyou want to hear more of our
conversation with Derek in theentire episode that we recorded
down there during our live eventwhere we did a Mount Rushmore
conversation about Max and I'sfour favorite films, then please
go over to our Patreon pagePatreon backslash excuse the

(01:17:23):
intermission where the entireepisode will be uploaded for a
low monthly fee.
You can access that and also,too, probably on Patreon is a
good place to start teasing it.
We'll give a little bit of ateaser right here, but we will
be back at Edison Square onAugust 22nd for something that
we're really excited about aswell, for something that we're
really excited about as well.

(01:17:48):
Okay, before we get into someaudience submissions, we're
going to have one specificmember of our audience come on
up.
We have our friend, derek Nunnin the house.
Can we get a round of applausefor Derek Nunn?
Yeah, go ahead, have a seat,derek.
Derek's a good friend of ours.
He's a board member down at theGrand Cinema, somebody who

(01:18:13):
we've sat on jury panels with atthe Tacoma Film Festival before
a returning guest to Excuse theIntermission and just like an
all-around good guy.
Ever since we met Derek, wevibe on the same things.
He looks forward to the samekind of movies that we look
forward to, so we really wantedto bring him on not only to talk
about maybe his favorite films.
But you have a new projectyourself that has taken a minute
to get there.
I know that we don't probablyhave the time to go through your

(01:18:37):
whole journey of Los Angeles toback to Tacoma, to everything
like that, but as far as makinga name for Tacoma in the world
of cinema and Pacific Northwestfilmmaking, that's really what
he set out to do with this newproject.
So do you want to start withtalking a little bit about that?

Speaker 3 (01:18:52):
Yeah, I'll just start by saying thank you for having
me on.
It's awesome to be here.
Anytime I get the chance totalk movies with you guys, it
feels like a privilege.
So and I just want to say I'mreally happy to be here and talk
movies.
Yeah, but doing movies just alittle bit of the journey I
guess, just like growing up herein Tacoma and then leaving the
Los Angeles working in the filmindustry for about 15 years and

(01:19:14):
then coming back and thenstarting this project it's
really been like a fairy tale.
It's kind of hard to describe.
I have aunties and familymembers that are like you should
write a book, you should.
It's kind of hard to describe.
I have aunties and familymembers that are like you should
write a book, but they thinkeverything we do is awesome.
So it's like you're alwaysgoing to root for me, mom, so
this probably won't be a goodbook.
That kind of advice is whatkind of gets you on American
Idol sometimes.

Speaker 1 (01:19:34):
We would be nowhere without our mothers and I'm not
just saying that because mine'sin attendance.

Speaker 3 (01:19:38):
Exactly and I would not have made it through LA
without her.
But, uh, no, yeah.
So we just started this project, um, and it just kind of just
it came together really, reallyquickly and it just really
speaks to the camaraderie andit's just the real sense of
community that Tacoma has and itbrings um to any like really
good idea.
We, tacoma, has a really gooduh, a really great ability to

(01:19:59):
just kind of getting aroundnurturing a good idea.
Uh, it may not grow as quicklyas it does in bigger cities or
other cities, but they have areally special way of
flourishing.
And this one I sat down with aninvestor.
I just went through all theseprojects that we had ready to go
from LA and they were likegreat, but this person must have

(01:20:21):
been really good with theirmoney, because before I write a
check, I just love to seesomething, something, just write
something and do something andthen we can like revisit.
So I was like, okay, you knowwhat can I do really quickly?
So I came up together with astory.
I reached out to Kwabi from thepeace bus and I was like, hey,
I really want to tell the story.
I think you'd be really greatin it as an actor, as our lead
actor, and, uh, he jumped on theidea and we just kind of
developed a story and I used asI put my producer hat on and I

(01:20:46):
thought, you know Kwame has alot of goodwill with the city
because of a lot of the greatwork he does and that really
helped us and allowed us to geta lot of stuff that we needed
like locations and like the geareverywhere that we filmed was
completely for free, which was Idon't know if you know much
about.
That's huge.
The film industry is like youdon't get places for free, you

(01:21:08):
don't really get help, you don'treally get anything for free.
And we kind of got everythingfor, you know, free.
We did pay out of our ownpockets, but it came together
and, um, uh, people that wantedto get involved or that were
involved, like the actors andlike some of the crew and, like
I said, the locations, uh, itjust really kind of came
together really quickly.
I think it was within the spanof like a month or so, like

(01:21:29):
between script to us shooting itand completing it.
It was about a month, which iskind of unheard of.
Uh, at least from myperspective, I I've never worked
that fast.
Uh, I don't recommend it.
But this is a feature film.
No, this is a short film, shortfilm.
Good God, I can't imagine afeature.
No, I probably have a.
Yeah, I would have lost someyears of my life if I did a

(01:21:50):
feature in a month.
But, yeah, it came togetherreally quickly and I think the
city really responded.
We did a cast and crewscreening at the Grand Cinema
Shout out to the Grand, and itwas very well received.
So we have, uh, more screeningscoming up.
We have one in september, uh,excuse me.
Uh, august in seattle, uh, the17th for aces, a shun pike event
, um, uh, and that's our nextscreening.

(01:22:13):
But uh, yeah, it, it's.
It's really exciting and it'sreally it feels really good to
get the the ball rolling here intacoma, because we know it's
not the first.
Nor, uh, it's not just thefirst, it's, it's far from the
last and it's like the firstdomino to really kind of fall
over and get the ball rolling.

Speaker 1 (01:22:28):
I find myself I don't know if you're feeling this
right now, max, but sort of in aprecarious position, because I
know we're going to see Derek atsome of these film festivals
that he's submitted this to andwe're going to be doing a Q&A
with him, I'm sure, in themonths to come, and so I don't
want to like spoil anything thatI want to ask right now without
having seen the film yet.
I guess that there still willbe, like new questions to come,

(01:22:48):
but and we hope to have Kwabihere he unfortunately couldn't
make it last minute, but I guessI'll just ask you then, as
somebody who approached him.
Of course, he's done so muchnonfiction work and been on
camera and very comfortable withpublic speaking and everything
like that.
But when it comes to acting inin a film, that is, that you
know there's a script for it andthere's all these different

(01:23:10):
kind of aspects of of theprocess of being on camera how
did you help him and how haveyou helped you know actors in
the past maybe navigate being anewcomer?

Speaker 3 (01:23:20):
Well, if you know Kwabi, you love Kwabi.
So it was very easy to workwith him.
He was very enthusiastic.
I remember maybe about a weekor two before we started
shooting I remember I had tobecause Quabi and I go way back
from like childhood, so there'sa shorthand and like a way we
can communicate I realized I hadto communicate with him

(01:23:43):
differently and really get himin the headspace of the
character.
Now the character parallels alot of his.
Who he is is aGhanaian-American character and
there was a lot of overlap towho he is as a person, just a
really great, hardworking,generous person.
But working with him for thefirst time was incredible.
I think hearing it from himwould be far more interesting

(01:24:07):
because just the way that hedescribes it, but just getting
what I needed from him as anactor not just like a friend and
a community leader, but as anactor I was really surprised how
quickly and how easily he wasable just to lock in.
But really, and like I said, asyou said, I don't want to spoil

(01:24:30):
too much beforehand becauseit's a short film and it's, you
know, it's a short film.
There's only so muchconversation you can have around
a short film or about a shortfilm, I guess, especially before
or without seeing it.
But what the subject matter hasto deal with, he was so it.
But, um, what the subjectmatter has to deal with, he was
so uh, uh, it was.
It was so easy for him to tapin and just kind of lock in and,

(01:24:51):
uh, it really kind of set thetone for a lot of the other
actors.
I mean, because there's not aton of dialogue, a lot of it is
just, you know, the characterbeing in the moment and really
being in the scene and reallybeing in this place, in this
character's life, and the weightof that and what came before
this place in this character'slife and the weight of that and
what came before and what he,this character, is doing to.
You know, it's a little bitabout legacy.
I at least can say that, likethe fact that someone paved the

(01:25:14):
way for us to be here we allhave ancestors or people that
came before and the steps andthe things that were done for us
to get here and what we'redoing for the next generation,
and just how he weighed that andcarried that, and I guess it
speaks to a lot of what he'sdoing, what he does in his
community work today.
So he kind of wore it reallywell and I think we got a really
great performance, and seeinghis reaction to himself on

(01:25:37):
screen was really gratifying forme.
It's like, bro, I've beenlooking at this for hours, man,
I've been seeing you do thesesame things in the edit for
hours.
So just seeing it all come tofruition was really good and I
look forward to just workingwith more amazing talent here in
Tacoma.
But Kwabi was a great person tobe able to work with.
Can we open these?

Speaker 2 (01:25:55):
Yeah, go for it.

Speaker 3 (01:25:56):
Liquid Death.
Shout out to Liquid Death.

Speaker 2 (01:25:58):
Shout out Liquid Death.
Please sponsor our podcast yes,please do.
Or our podcast yes, please do,derek.
What were some of you know youwere talking about locations and
how you know, because ofQuabi's status in the city, you
were able to get some freelocations, which is always
really, really helpful for anindie film.
What were some of the maybechallenges that you faced or

(01:26:19):
maybe some other wins that yougot here in Tacoma by shooting
in Tacoma?

Speaker 3 (01:26:28):
It's part Tacoma and part just like overall shooting
a film.
Like trying to translate avision.
Uh, I can talk a movie all daylong.
I mean, this is a podcast aboutmovies.
We can talk movies all day butuntil you see a film, it's not
really going to translate foryou.
Um, so I was like trying totell people what this thing was
and what we're trying to do.
It's kind of like, yeah, yeah,yeah, I always go back to Will

(01:26:48):
Smith talking about how he waspitching the matrix and like him
just not getting it.
It's like, yeah, we're going toslow it down and you're going to
pause, and he's like I don'tget it.
And then when he saw it he waslike, oh yeah, I'm an idiot, I
should have definitely taken it.
Uh, it's kind of feels likethat.
It's like, man, they just don'tsee, they just don't understand
what I'm trying to do.
And then, uh, part of it, partof that, part of like I say, and

(01:27:09):
part of that, it just comeswith the nature of filmmaking.
Like most people are not goingto see your vision unless you're
already a successful filmmakerand they're like I don't care
what it is, just here, here'smoney, make your thing, but a
lot of it, some of it being theTacoma side of it is just
there's not really an industrybuilt on that Like Los Angeles.
They've been doing it for over100 years.

(01:27:30):
So it's just, you know, there'sa whole economy and a whole
ecosystem and a whole pipelinewhere one step, this step, next
step, next step, moving.
You know, here I realize it'snot so much we came here with a
bit more ambition to do largerprojects.
It's like, oh wait, therearen't any, uh, prop rental
houses, there's not places wecan rent props.
And oh wait, there's not reallyany camera rental houses.
They're all in seattle orportland, like, oh gosh.

(01:27:51):
And it's like, you know, these,these small things that became
things uh, not really big things.
You know you can get aroundthat, especially with today with
technology, how small camerasare, with the quality that you
can shoot in I mean, they shotthe creator on a camera you can
go buy at best, buy right now,like it's, it's just nuts and uh
, but um, yeah, those were someof the barriers, those, those

(01:28:12):
were the major ones.
I guess, with like looking forcasting, it's like going out to
like the theater companies andthe places that you know
performers are rather being likea database of like casting,
like backstage, backstage or LAcasting.
It's like, oh, I need to, oh,just here we go, and just kind
of those portals, I guess.
But it's growing.
It's all happening slowly butvery surely.

(01:28:32):
It's.
It's happening here in Tacoma.
But those were some of the, someof the, and we didn't really
have a budget for this,especially with how quickly we
we moved.
We didn't have a budget, so wekind of shot this.
I know we spent money, I spentmoney on this, so, if anything,
I lost money.
But it all happened.

(01:28:54):
It all happened in spite of ourlack of resources or lack of
the portals or lack of thesethings.
That's what I mean.
We fell short.
The community kind of cametogether.
Tacoma showed up.
We shot part of it at.
The opening scene is at theWashington History Museum, in
their boardroom.
It's like, yeah, they just gaveus.
Oh, just let us know what dayyou need it, what?

(01:29:15):
What are you talking about?
Usually there's paperwork andthere's money involved and we
have to book it for so long.
No, they just let us film there.
And we shot another portion ofit at POU and they just kind of
walked me through and gave me atour and I was like just let us
know what room you like.
It's like this doesn't happen.
This is not how things normallyhappen, but because it's Tacoma
and it's just this I don't knowwhat it is, man, I don't know

(01:29:38):
what you call it, I don, it'slost on me at this moment, but
there's just this.
You know this camaraderie thateveryone was like well, we want
to get this done, we believe init.
I don't even know.
I would tell the story.
Like you know, they say, whenyou pitch your film or when you
make a film, you have to tellwhat it's about.
Like maybe 100 times You'regoing to be retelling it.
It's like so what's your movieabout?

(01:29:58):
It's like this is about the 50thtime I've told someone, but you
know.
And then people jump on.
They're like, yeah, okay, thatsounds great.
Well, just let me know what day.
And it's like wait, what Isthat easy?
I was expecting a little bitmore.
So there were with every, toanswer your question.
I guess in this way, with everylike hurdle or trial, it turned

(01:30:19):
into like a victory or like asuccess, like, and it like in a
way that I didn't really expector really predict, because I
learned it the quote unquotetraditional way and things were
happening non-traditionally andeverything was getting done and
it was like okay, I'm doing alot more work than I would
typically do, because there'sdepartments dedicated to these
things, but it all happened, Ifeel like you're helping set the

(01:30:43):
precedent, you're helping setthe standard, and when people
don't know what that looks likeyet, then they're more inclined
to give you their space, to giveyou time, and so I think that's
really cool, that's reallyexciting.

Speaker 1 (01:30:54):
Real quick, we haven't said the name of the
film, just so people can keep aneye out for it.
What's the short entitled?
Yes, the short film is calledWild Dreams.

Speaker 3 (01:31:02):
Entitled Wild Dreams Awesome, Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:31:04):
And then you've brought some other films here.
All right, we hope you enjoyedthat conversation with Derek
Nunn and our conversation aboutlong legs.
Until next time, follow Excusethe Intermission on Instagram
and the two of us on Letterboxdto track what we're watching
between shows, and we will talkto you next time on ETI, where
movies still matter.