March 5, 2025 • 19 mins
This episode explores the shadow side of perfectionism and its impact on our lives. We discuss how striving for perfection often turns toxic, discouraging us from taking action and enjoying life. By sharing personal anecdotes, we highlight the importance of awareness and flexibility in combating perfectionist tendencies.
• Understanding the dangers of perfectionism and its rise in modern society
• Exploring how perfectionism stops progress and causes anxiety
• Discussing the importance of embracing imperfection in everyday life
Please share your thoughts and experiences with perfectionism in the comments!
Hypnotherapy coaching sessions can help if you are struggling with anxiety. Please email us at englishsisters@gmail.com if you would like help with an issue, mentioning this episode of our podcast for a special discounted rate. We work with clients worldwide over Zoom. Buy our BookStress Free in Three Minutes available on Amazon and Kindle, to help support our work. Thank you!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Why being a perfectionist can actually be
dangerous in so many ways, yeah,and why there can be so many
downsides to it.
Because we're used to thinkingof.
You know, being a perfectionistis, oh yeah, you know,
everything is lovely andeverything comes out really nice
.
Yes, associating it withexcellence Exactly yes.
(00:22):
Yes, associating it withexcellence Exactly yes.
But today we're going to beactually talking about this
toxic perfectionism and why, youknow, we've got to become aware
of it, and why it can actuallystop you in your tracks and stop
you from living your best life.
So tune in to Get Real With theEnglish Sisters.
Please do share this podcastwith your family and friends and
(00:46):
on social media if you enjoy it, and let us know in the
comments if you enjoy it, orsend us a text if you're on your
podcast player, yay.
So let's get down to thispodcast today.
And there's reasons why wedecided to talk about this,
isn't there?
Well, there are reasons why wedecided to talk about this,
isn't there?
Well, there are reasons becausewe suddenly decided that I mean
(01:07):
the lady that comes to help usin the house she cannot clean a
room if everything isn't, ifit's not, tidy, exactly Like if
your house is.
It's either all or nothing.
Yeah, she like she'll open adoor and she'll say, oh no,
there's, there are a few thingson the floor.
(01:27):
Thus I could not clean thatroom.
You know, and and and this.
This sounds like she only comes.
Yeah, it sounds ridiculous,like.
So I know I'm really lucky tohave her coming to help me, so
I'm really ultra grateful thefact that I have her.
She only comes once a week anduh, yeah, but sometimes I think
(01:48):
why?
And then, after speaking to her, I realized that it's kind of
like no, because it's not if, ifthings aren't perfect in her,
in this isn't just with with thecleaning aspect, it's
everything in her life,everything has to be done
perfectly.
And I'm sure there are a lot ofyou out there that you are
either like almost I want to saythe word suffering from
(02:11):
perfectionism, because it islike it's like a disease and
it's on the rise.
Yeah, this is actually on therise, exactly.
There are more and more peoplethat are becoming perfectionists
due to social media, due tocomparison.
I think so, and I think I meanit really gets into your mind,
(02:32):
it does your, it does your headin in the end, because you, you
stop.
It stops you in your tracks.
It stops you from doing thingsjust as just as she.
You know she can't clean a roomif there's a few boxes on the
floor or like on the bed orsomething you know you're in the
middle of.
Maybe you know she can't cleana room if there's a few boxes on
the floor or like on the bed orsomething you know you're in
the middle of.
Maybe you know doing yourwardrobe out or something.
Yeah, she'll just go in thereand say, oh no, I can't do this
(02:53):
room, whereas close the door.
If I went in there I would say,okay, there's a bit, there's a
little bit of room here.
I just, yeah, you know, I justvacuum the carpet a bit, then
I'll go around and do a bit ofthere.
But for her, in her mind, shejust can't.
It's like all or nothing, andI'm sure many of you can
identify with that that.
Maybe you know things havestopped you in the past from
(03:14):
doing things I've got, I've gotmy son.
He is a total perfectionist.
He does suffer from anxietythough, every, every, now and
again and and, for example, likethe other day he was, he
decided.
He said, oh, I really fancymashed potatoes, oh, but I can't
be bothered with the longprocess.
And I said what long process,for goodness sake.
(03:35):
Just stick a potato in themicrowave and then get it out,
put some butter on it and mashit up.
You know, that's how I would doit if I wanted it.
You it, you know, like one, itonly takes like five minutes, or
otherwise.
You can boil them and then justmash them up with you know,
even with a fork.
Yeah, he said, oh, mum, youknow I can't do it like that.
And so I thought okay, so, andhe said no, I'm just gonna go
(03:57):
out now and grab a hamburger.
So I thought there you go.
That's an example of you know,his perfectionism is actually
getting in the way of his health, because if it's not perfect
the mashed potatoes, theninstead of eating a healthy
potato, he's gone out to get ahamburger, which is just fast
food.
So I thought that's theclassical example of lots of
(04:17):
things that happened to him inhis life that I can see.
You know he's.
He's just bought a house now.
So I thought, well, let's get.
You know, start painting, letyou know so you can move in and
enjoy it.
Yes, but we need to get aprofessional painter's opinion.
We need to do the primer on thewall, we need to do this.
No, everything was like it'slike stopping.
(04:41):
Yeah, it's like it like stops,you know, just from getting from
rolling up your sleeves andgetting on with it because
you're thinking in your headthat you're not good enough to
do that, because you haven't gotthe experience or the tools or
the you know, the know-how to doit, whereas if you just say,
okay, I'm just going to do mybest, and that you know, like I
remember.
(05:01):
Yeah, I remember when we firstcame to Italy.
Know, like I remember who cares.
Yeah, I remember when we firstcame to Italy, we, when people
used to have painters come inand then all this DIY came yes,
it wasn't it.
Nobody would actually do ityourself here in Italy.
No, we came from the UK and youknow the English kind of
mindset where people would dotheir own homes up and and just
(05:21):
sort of figure away.
You know it wouldn't be perfect, but no, not here.
They had to kind of shine alight.
They had, they would get atorch and actually shine it on
the wall to see if there was anylike kinks or nooks or crannies
or any imperfections in thepaint job they'd done.
Yeah, so that was, butobviously that was a
professional painter that wouldcome in and do it, yeah, but and
(05:42):
then do you really need aprofessional painter though,
have you?
If you've got loads of money tosplash out and you've got the,
then you know the financialresources.
Yes, of course, you can get aninterior decorator, you can get
a painter.
You can get.
You know, you can get all ofthis stuff, but most of us in
the real world we, we don't haveall that extra cash lying
(06:05):
around, and, and it is hard workwhen you actually do do the
painting, but, oh, what asatisfaction you get afterwards
when you manage to do ityourself.
There is that sense of prideand your self-worth grows.
When you do things yourself,you know you immediately have
this massive boost inself-esteem.
(06:27):
So it's good for you also to totry and do these things, and I
think, like, like recently, myhusband's done out the bathroom
and the upstairs bathroom, andmy son is shocked why, why, dad?
Why, why are you doing this?
You know you don't need to dothis now, at this stage in your
life.
You can get someone to do itfor you.
(06:48):
Why are you killing yourselfdoing it and he actually got
sore knee from it.
It was hard work.
He's loved the process and he'sthoroughly enjoyed it, and I've
enjoyed the fact that I haven'tgot workers in my house every
day, that he did it, yeah, hedid it, and he's just nice and
quiet and discreet and I, ohyeah, he's brilliant.
He's brilliant when he does hisjob.
(07:08):
So I haven't got people inthere.
He is a perfectionist, but Ithink he's learned how to, how
to sort of master hisperfectionist to his advantage
there.
Yeah, because he is anotherexample of a perfectionist.
It's never stopped him, it'snot.
He's not a toxic perfectionist,no, no, he'll get on with it.
He'll get on with it and tryand he'll write notes, but then
(07:30):
while he's doing it, he'll wantit to be more and more so.
He wants to learn how to do itproperly.
Yes, yes, he does, he does.
If he does put a tile downthat's slightly wonky, he'll try
and lift it up and then redo it, but but he does accept as well
that there might be you know,there might be things that
aren't exactly 100 perfect.
He allows flexibility.
(07:51):
It's like in business, isn'tthere?
Because he also listens to mewhere I say that's fine, just
get on with it.
Exactly, yeah, maybe if he wason his own he might, you know,
go down that rabbit hole a bit.
More of toxic perfection, Ithink.
If you've got twoperfectionists in a couple, in a
friendship, that's when thingscan be a little bit tricky,
because you know well, they dosay opposites attract.
(08:13):
So perhaps a lot of the timesthere there is one perfectionist
and then you end up withsomebody else that's not like
that and you actually quiteenjoy that feeling of sort of
somebody that's more flexiblearound you.
Yeah, I think that's probablyquite a good combination.
Yes, you're like edge eachother on, won't you?
The perfectionist will make youdo things a bit better, and
more perfection, yes, it'llactually improve, inspire you.
(08:36):
Yeah, yeah, but it's it's whenit stops you from doing things,
or it like it's it's like all on, the all or nothing mentality,
which is like harmful, I think,and toxic.
Well, it's like in business,isn't it the?
There there is a saying calledanalysis, paralysis.
So if you analyze something toomuch, you will never do
anything.
And it's actually feared inbusiness because they say if you
(08:56):
analyze something too much, youwill never do anything.
And it's actually feared inbusiness because they say, if
you, if you're going to start upan idea, and you start it and
then you have it, you could youhave to wait for everything to
be perfect.
You will never get it done.
Yeah, and it paralyzes you,literally the fear of not
getting everything perfect, nothaving exactly the right budget,
exactly the right personnel,this and that you won't do it.
(09:19):
No, you will be paralysed, itwill stop you, it will stop you
in life.
It will create a lot of anxietyas well, because you'll feel
frustrated because you're notfulfilling the thing that you
wanted to do Exactly.
I mean, you've got to sort ofbecome aware of this.
I think, yeah, I think it'slike everything.
If you become aware of whatyou're doing with your own mind,
(09:43):
with your own mind and your ownthoughts, and you know when
you're going down that spiral ofperfectionism, yeah, you can
stop yourself and say, hey, well, maybe you know a little bit
more flexibility or maybe, ifyou know there's a few things
wrong with it, that's fine,because overall it's a good
thing.
Exactly, overall it's a goodthing.
I mean, when we were babies, wedidn't learn how to walk, you
(10:05):
know, immediately we didn't doit perfectly.
We started crawling and then wedidn't know how to eat properly
and we made a terrible messwith our food, spitting it out
and, goodness me, in our pants.
Yeah, we, we weren't perfectand so we're not perfect now as
adults either.
We have to allow thatflexibility and the be elastic
(10:27):
enough in our own minds to saywho cares?
You know, it's good, it's agood job, and I'm proud of you.
Know, become proud of yourselffor doing it and for taking
those first steps.
I think you've got to justallow for more flexibility to
enter.
Yeah, and I think that alsocomes when it comes down for
with your health and yourfitness, a perfectionist will
(10:49):
never start working out becausethey won't have the right
equipment or they won't have theamount of time necessary to do
it.
I haven't got an hour today.
Well, you could just do maybe10 minutes.
And you just follow a YouTubevideo.
He says really, I would need apersonal trainer.
I go well, you haven't got themoney for a personal trainer, so
why don't you just watch avideo and start doing it
(11:10):
yourself?
No, there you go.
No, there you go, no.
There you go, no, no.
And then you know he is pairedwith another perfectionist, so
it's drama.
Yeah, so you were.
There's drama there because itstops you from doing.
You need a professional in ordernot to do an exercise that
might hurt you.
Yes, that is true, but you canalso just start.
(11:31):
You can start with an exercisethat's safe, exactly With
weights.
Start, you can start with anexercise that's safe, exactly
with weights, if you're doingweight training, weights that
are safe for you and just get onwith it and just roll your
sleeve up and just start andjust do it and you'll be
healthier for it.
Exactly, I mean, when we firstcame to Italy.
I mean, and they still say thatnow, so many people actually
(11:51):
know how to speak English, butthey won't.
They are literally paralyzed bythe fear of looking foolish.
And and they, you know they'renot.
It's ridiculous, isn't it?
You think, oh, but you didn't.
You know, sometimes you can.
Actually, you studied Englishfor like 10 years at school and
you still don't want to speak it.
They won't speak it because it'spart of their culture.
(12:13):
They say they can't speakEnglish.
They say, oh, no, it's part oftheir culture.
They say, oh, no, it's really,really bad.
Oh, no, no, and I know it canbe embarrassing.
It's like me if I try and speakfrench.
I haven't spoken french foryears.
I'm gonna make, I'm gonna messup, yeah, but does that actually
stop me?
No, if I find a french personand and I see that they need
help, I will speak to them infrench.
Well, I will too.
(12:33):
So I mean, that's because we'renot.
We'll do our best.
We'll do our best to try and,you know, whatever we can.
That brings me back to when, um,therefore when, when, like when
, I remember you telling me whydon't you have a baby now?
Exactly because I would beliving with my, with my partner,
who's my husband now, at thetime for ages.
We met when we were 19 and we'dbe living together.
(12:55):
You were so happy I wasn'tworking at the time, so it was
like the perfect opportunity.
And you said why don't you havea baby?
When you were trying to getpregnant, you said you try as
well and I go, I can't have ababy.
And you said why not?
You haven't tried.
Well, you know there's, therearen't any problems or anything.
I said, no, but I can't haveone because I haven't.
We haven't got a house yet.
We have to buy a house first.
(13:15):
And you said why?
Yeah, because we were living inrented accommodation.
In those days it was more commonfor you to to be able to
purchase a house.
Nowadays, hardly anyone canpurchase one.
It's so, you know, expensive.
But then in those days youcould if you'd saved up.
So I said we're saving for youknow, for a down payment.
And you said I why you shouldjust go, just go for it, you
(13:38):
don't need to, you, you live ina nice place, you've got enough
room to live, you know, to havea baby room for the cot.
Yeah, you had like another room, yeah, I had even had an extra
room.
So I said there's room for acot, so just do it.
And we did it and it.
And we actually bought ourhouse four years later, uh, or
no, six years later.
Six years later, we had twochildren and we bought our house
four years later, uh, or no,six years later.
Six years later, we had twochildren and we bought a house.
(13:59):
Six years later, you enteredthe house with the two children.
We rented our forever home thatwe bought and then we did out,
all by ourselves as well,because we just did it, we just
you just do it.
And, and how many lifeexperiences and how much, how
much you know goodness is thatbrought.
Yes, and it enabled the factthat you did have them.
At least mum and dad enjoyedthem, because then they passed
(14:21):
away.
Yes, they did, they got to seethem and you got all that
satisfaction with actuallymemories, you know, of having
our parents see your children.
Well, they would have.
Yeah, they wouldn't have seenmuch, they weren't in very good
health conditions Exactly by thetime you actually moved much
harder.
Yeah, so so you actually gotmum to actually enjoy your first
daughter.
A lot, you know, and and youhave all those memories which
(14:45):
you may not have had.
So sometimes you know, waitingfor the perfect moment might not
be the perfect moment.
You know, in real life it mightbe just the perfect moment that
you think is the perfect moment, because you've got this thing
in your head, you know this idea, programming whatever, of what
or the comparing it to otherpeople.
You know, I think nowadays morethan ever, it's so much because
(15:08):
of social media.
It always has been.
It has been.
Before it was like the nextdoor neighbor, what the group
was, but now it's like beingtenfold, a hundredfold
heightened, I know, becauseeverything is so curated on
social media that you believe,we all believe, we all get
fooled that life is really likethat.
When it's just one moment, one,we know it's not real, but
(15:31):
we're kind of like there's apart of our brain, there's a
part of our brain that wants itto be real Because it looks so
beautiful.
So then we compare ourselves toit and you know, as we were
chatting before when we werehaving a cup of tea, if we had
been like that I mean, when wedo this podcast, we video the
podcast as well, whereas so manyof our colleagues say, oh, no,
(15:52):
I can't video it.
No-transcript, you know, just gofor it.
We just go for it.
If we hadn't, we wouldn't havestarted a podcast.
No, never, no, so you wouldn'tbe listening to us now.
No, we would just say, no, weneed a team, you need someone to
(16:17):
edit it, you need someone tocurate it, you need you know
something to talk about.
Yeah, I mean, we just basicallytook chat about what we were
chatting about one minute beforein the kitchen, yeah, and then
our own experiences and you know, as, as as therapists as well,
that obviously comes in, butjust general, a lot of stuff
(16:38):
that just happens to us and andour families, so there's no need
to have it so curated, soperfect.
I think the imperfection is whatis what's attractive as well,
because when something is soperfect, you think, yeah, well,
but where's the soul in it?
Yeah, where's the soul you've?
I, when we look at our houses,we know we painted that room and
(17:00):
we might think, oh, yeah, Iknow that, you know.
I mean, like when we were doingour bathroom out and we've got
our little son who went it wastwo, who did a little.
Yeah, he came in to help hisdaddy and he did a little
scratch on the tile and you'vegot that memory, we've got that
still there.
We kept it where he scratchedthe tile because he wanted to.
(17:21):
Yeah, adorable, exactly.
But that's part of the history,of the feelings, of the
emotions in the end.
So, yeah, I think you know thismyth about everything having to
be perfect and curated is is isnot.
It's not true, it's not.
Nature is not like that either,is it?
(17:41):
If we look at nature I mean youlook at a field there'd be
millions of weeds in it, exactly, and then there'll be the odd
beautiful flower.
What, sometimes the weeds arethe beautiful flowers, you know
if it just depends how you'relooking at it because the
dandelions and everything elseis considered a weed.
Look at the beauty in it.
The daisies, you know, in mygarden now they're weeds, but
(18:02):
they're beautiful.
They're beautiful white flowers, perfect in their imperfections
, exactly.
Yes, I think that's it.
I think we have to look atthings a little bit differently
and allow more flexibility toenter our minds and take a deep
breath and just say look, thisis all part of the journey.
If it's going to be a goodthing in the end, if it's not
(18:22):
going to be toxic for us, ifit's going to be toxic for us,
and stop us doing what we reallywant to be doing right now,
just for us, and stop us doingwhat we really want to be doing
right now, just let go.
Is it worth it?
No, it's not.
It's never worth it.
It's actually.
You know, it can actually bevery dangerous for your health
and for everything else.
Yeah, and for the people aroundyou as well.
Yeah, because it can be a greatdampener on you know, your
(18:44):
social life, on the peoplearound you, if they know that.
You know like, oh dear, thatperson's going to get upset if
they invite us to dinner andthen the dinner doesn't come out
well, for example, yeah, weknow they're going to be grumpy
in the kitchen.
You know, there's no point,there's no, you might as well
just have a big laugh about it.
And, you know, just put it inyour memory cupboard.
(19:05):
Exactly, it's part of memories,isn't it?
Yeah, it's part of life,exactly.
So let us know if you enjoythis podcast.
You know, please do leave acomment if you're watching us on
youtube or send us a text ifyou're listening.
Wherever you get your podcastson apple podcast, spotify,
wherever you you are, and let usknow if you feel that you kind
(19:26):
of have become moreperfectionist over time and if
you think the social media isinfluencing you as well.
Exactly, or if you've gotanyone around you that's like
that.
Yeah, let us know.
See you next week.
Lots of love and smiles fromthe english sisters.
Bye.
Why being a perfectionist can actually be
dangerous in so many ways, yeah,and why there can be so many
downsides to it.
Because we're used to thinkingof.
You know, being a perfectionistis, oh yeah, you know,
everything is lovely andeverything comes out really nice
.
Yes, associating it withexcellence Exactly yes.
(00:22):
Yes, associating it withexcellence Exactly yes.
But today we're going to beactually talking about this
toxic perfectionism and why, youknow, we've got to become aware
of it, and why it can actuallystop you in your tracks and stop
you from living your best life.
So tune in to Get Real With theEnglish Sisters.
Please do share this podcastwith your family and friends and
(00:46):
on social media if you enjoy it, and let us know in the
comments if you enjoy it, orsend us a text if you're on your
podcast player, yay.
So let's get down to thispodcast today.
And there's reasons why wedecided to talk about this,
isn't there?
Well, there are reasons why wedecided to talk about this,
isn't there?
Well, there are reasons becausewe suddenly decided that I mean
(01:07):
the lady that comes to help usin the house she cannot clean a
room if everything isn't, ifit's not, tidy, exactly Like if
your house is.
It's either all or nothing.
Yeah, she like she'll open adoor and she'll say, oh no,
there's, there are a few thingson the floor.
(01:27):
Thus I could not clean thatroom.
You know, and and and this.
This sounds like she only comes.
Yeah, it sounds ridiculous,like.
So I know I'm really lucky tohave her coming to help me, so
I'm really ultra grateful thefact that I have her.
She only comes once a week anduh, yeah, but sometimes I think
(01:48):
why?
And then, after speaking to her, I realized that it's kind of
like no, because it's not if, ifthings aren't perfect in her,
in this isn't just with with thecleaning aspect, it's
everything in her life,everything has to be done
perfectly.
And I'm sure there are a lot ofyou out there that you are
either like almost I want to saythe word suffering from
(02:11):
perfectionism, because it islike it's like a disease and
it's on the rise.
Yeah, this is actually on therise, exactly.
There are more and more peoplethat are becoming perfectionists
due to social media, due tocomparison.
I think so, and I think I meanit really gets into your mind,
(02:32):
it does your, it does your headin in the end, because you, you
stop.
It stops you in your tracks.
It stops you from doing thingsjust as just as she.
You know she can't clean a roomif there's a few boxes on the
floor or like on the bed orsomething you know you're in the
middle of.
Maybe you know she can't cleana room if there's a few boxes on
the floor or like on the bed orsomething you know you're in
the middle of.
Maybe you know doing yourwardrobe out or something.
Yeah, she'll just go in thereand say, oh no, I can't do this
(02:53):
room, whereas close the door.
If I went in there I would say,okay, there's a bit, there's a
little bit of room here.
I just, yeah, you know, I justvacuum the carpet a bit, then
I'll go around and do a bit ofthere.
But for her, in her mind, shejust can't.
It's like all or nothing, andI'm sure many of you can
identify with that that.
Maybe you know things havestopped you in the past from
(03:14):
doing things I've got, I've gotmy son.
He is a total perfectionist.
He does suffer from anxietythough, every, every, now and
again and and, for example, likethe other day he was, he
decided.
He said, oh, I really fancymashed potatoes, oh, but I can't
be bothered with the longprocess.
And I said what long process,for goodness sake.
(03:35):
Just stick a potato in themicrowave and then get it out,
put some butter on it and mashit up.
You know, that's how I would doit if I wanted it.
You it, you know, like one, itonly takes like five minutes, or
otherwise.
You can boil them and then justmash them up with you know,
even with a fork.
Yeah, he said, oh, mum, youknow I can't do it like that.
And so I thought okay, so, andhe said no, I'm just gonna go
(03:57):
out now and grab a hamburger.
So I thought there you go.
That's an example of you know,his perfectionism is actually
getting in the way of his health, because if it's not perfect
the mashed potatoes, theninstead of eating a healthy
potato, he's gone out to get ahamburger, which is just fast
food.
So I thought that's theclassical example of lots of
(04:17):
things that happened to him inhis life that I can see.
You know he's.
He's just bought a house now.
So I thought, well, let's get.
You know, start painting, letyou know so you can move in and
enjoy it.
Yes, but we need to get aprofessional painter's opinion.
We need to do the primer on thewall, we need to do this.
No, everything was like it'slike stopping.
(04:41):
Yeah, it's like it like stops,you know, just from getting from
rolling up your sleeves andgetting on with it because
you're thinking in your headthat you're not good enough to
do that, because you haven't gotthe experience or the tools or
the you know, the know-how to doit, whereas if you just say,
okay, I'm just going to do mybest, and that you know, like I
remember.
(05:01):
Yeah, I remember when we firstcame to Italy.
Know, like I remember who cares.
Yeah, I remember when we firstcame to Italy, we, when people
used to have painters come inand then all this DIY came yes,
it wasn't it.
Nobody would actually do ityourself here in Italy.
No, we came from the UK and youknow the English kind of
mindset where people would dotheir own homes up and and just
(05:21):
sort of figure away.
You know it wouldn't be perfect, but no, not here.
They had to kind of shine alight.
They had, they would get atorch and actually shine it on
the wall to see if there was anylike kinks or nooks or crannies
or any imperfections in thepaint job they'd done.
Yeah, so that was, butobviously that was a
professional painter that wouldcome in and do it, yeah, but and
(05:42):
then do you really need aprofessional painter though,
have you?
If you've got loads of money tosplash out and you've got the,
then you know the financialresources.
Yes, of course, you can get aninterior decorator, you can get
a painter.
You can get.
You know, you can get all ofthis stuff, but most of us in
the real world we, we don't haveall that extra cash lying
(06:05):
around, and, and it is hard workwhen you actually do do the
painting, but, oh, what asatisfaction you get afterwards
when you manage to do ityourself.
There is that sense of prideand your self-worth grows.
When you do things yourself,you know you immediately have
this massive boost inself-esteem.
(06:27):
So it's good for you also to totry and do these things, and I
think, like, like recently, myhusband's done out the bathroom
and the upstairs bathroom, andmy son is shocked why, why, dad?
Why, why are you doing this?
You know you don't need to dothis now, at this stage in your
life.
You can get someone to do itfor you.
(06:48):
Why are you killing yourselfdoing it and he actually got
sore knee from it.
It was hard work.
He's loved the process and he'sthoroughly enjoyed it, and I've
enjoyed the fact that I haven'tgot workers in my house every
day, that he did it, yeah, hedid it, and he's just nice and
quiet and discreet and I, ohyeah, he's brilliant.
He's brilliant when he does hisjob.
(07:08):
So I haven't got people inthere.
He is a perfectionist, but Ithink he's learned how to, how
to sort of master hisperfectionist to his advantage
there.
Yeah, because he is anotherexample of a perfectionist.
It's never stopped him, it'snot.
He's not a toxic perfectionist,no, no, he'll get on with it.
He'll get on with it and tryand he'll write notes, but then
(07:30):
while he's doing it, he'll wantit to be more and more so.
He wants to learn how to do itproperly.
Yes, yes, he does, he does.
If he does put a tile downthat's slightly wonky, he'll try
and lift it up and then redo it, but but he does accept as well
that there might be you know,there might be things that
aren't exactly 100 perfect.
He allows flexibility.
(07:51):
It's like in business, isn'tthere?
Because he also listens to mewhere I say that's fine, just
get on with it.
Exactly, yeah, maybe if he wason his own he might, you know,
go down that rabbit hole a bit.
More of toxic perfection, Ithink.
If you've got twoperfectionists in a couple, in a
friendship, that's when thingscan be a little bit tricky,
because you know well, they dosay opposites attract.
(08:13):
So perhaps a lot of the timesthere there is one perfectionist
and then you end up withsomebody else that's not like
that and you actually quiteenjoy that feeling of sort of
somebody that's more flexiblearound you.
Yeah, I think that's probablyquite a good combination.
Yes, you're like edge eachother on, won't you?
The perfectionist will make youdo things a bit better, and
more perfection, yes, it'llactually improve, inspire you.
(08:36):
Yeah, yeah, but it's it's whenit stops you from doing things,
or it like it's it's like all on, the all or nothing mentality,
which is like harmful, I think,and toxic.
Well, it's like in business,isn't it the?
There there is a saying calledanalysis, paralysis.
So if you analyze something toomuch, you will never do
anything.
And it's actually feared inbusiness because they say if you
(08:56):
analyze something too much, youwill never do anything.
And it's actually feared inbusiness because they say, if
you, if you're going to start upan idea, and you start it and
then you have it, you could youhave to wait for everything to
be perfect.
You will never get it done.
Yeah, and it paralyzes you,literally the fear of not
getting everything perfect, nothaving exactly the right budget,
exactly the right personnel,this and that you won't do it.
(09:19):
No, you will be paralysed, itwill stop you, it will stop you
in life.
It will create a lot of anxietyas well, because you'll feel
frustrated because you're notfulfilling the thing that you
wanted to do Exactly.
I mean, you've got to sort ofbecome aware of this.
I think, yeah, I think it'slike everything.
If you become aware of whatyou're doing with your own mind,
(09:43):
with your own mind and your ownthoughts, and you know when
you're going down that spiral ofperfectionism, yeah, you can
stop yourself and say, hey, well, maybe you know a little bit
more flexibility or maybe, ifyou know there's a few things
wrong with it, that's fine,because overall it's a good
thing.
Exactly, overall it's a goodthing.
I mean, when we were babies, wedidn't learn how to walk, you
(10:05):
know, immediately we didn't doit perfectly.
We started crawling and then wedidn't know how to eat properly
and we made a terrible messwith our food, spitting it out
and, goodness me, in our pants.
Yeah, we, we weren't perfectand so we're not perfect now as
adults either.
We have to allow thatflexibility and the be elastic
(10:27):
enough in our own minds to saywho cares?
You know, it's good, it's agood job, and I'm proud of you.
Know, become proud of yourselffor doing it and for taking
those first steps.
I think you've got to justallow for more flexibility to
enter.
Yeah, and I think that alsocomes when it comes down for
with your health and yourfitness, a perfectionist will
(10:49):
never start working out becausethey won't have the right
equipment or they won't have theamount of time necessary to do
it.
I haven't got an hour today.
Well, you could just do maybe10 minutes.
And you just follow a YouTubevideo.
He says really, I would need apersonal trainer.
I go well, you haven't got themoney for a personal trainer, so
why don't you just watch avideo and start doing it
(11:10):
yourself?
No, there you go.
No, there you go, no.
There you go, no, no.
And then you know he is pairedwith another perfectionist, so
it's drama.
Yeah, so you were.
There's drama there because itstops you from doing.
You need a professional in ordernot to do an exercise that
might hurt you.
Yes, that is true, but you canalso just start.
(11:31):
You can start with an exercisethat's safe, exactly With
weights.
Start, you can start with anexercise that's safe, exactly
with weights, if you're doingweight training, weights that
are safe for you and just get onwith it and just roll your
sleeve up and just start andjust do it and you'll be
healthier for it.
Exactly, I mean, when we firstcame to Italy.
I mean, and they still say thatnow, so many people actually
(11:51):
know how to speak English, butthey won't.
They are literally paralyzed bythe fear of looking foolish.
And and they, you know they'renot.
It's ridiculous, isn't it?
You think, oh, but you didn't.
You know, sometimes you can.
Actually, you studied Englishfor like 10 years at school and
you still don't want to speak it.
They won't speak it because it'spart of their culture.
(12:13):
They say they can't speakEnglish.
They say, oh, no, it's part oftheir culture.
They say, oh, no, it's really,really bad.
Oh, no, no, and I know it canbe embarrassing.
It's like me if I try and speakfrench.
I haven't spoken french foryears.
I'm gonna make, I'm gonna messup, yeah, but does that actually
stop me?
No, if I find a french personand and I see that they need
help, I will speak to them infrench.
Well, I will too.
(12:33):
So I mean, that's because we'renot.
We'll do our best.
We'll do our best to try and,you know, whatever we can.
That brings me back to when, um,therefore when, when, like when
, I remember you telling me whydon't you have a baby now?
Exactly because I would beliving with my, with my partner,
who's my husband now, at thetime for ages.
We met when we were 19 and we'dbe living together.
(12:55):
You were so happy I wasn'tworking at the time, so it was
like the perfect opportunity.
And you said why don't you havea baby?
When you were trying to getpregnant, you said you try as
well and I go, I can't have ababy.
And you said why not?
You haven't tried.
Well, you know there's, therearen't any problems or anything.
I said, no, but I can't haveone because I haven't.
We haven't got a house yet.
We have to buy a house first.
(13:15):
And you said why?
Yeah, because we were living inrented accommodation.
In those days it was more commonfor you to to be able to
purchase a house.
Nowadays, hardly anyone canpurchase one.
It's so, you know, expensive.
But then in those days youcould if you'd saved up.
So I said we're saving for youknow, for a down payment.
And you said I why you shouldjust go, just go for it, you
(13:38):
don't need to, you, you live ina nice place, you've got enough
room to live, you know, to havea baby room for the cot.
Yeah, you had like another room, yeah, I had even had an extra
room.
So I said there's room for acot, so just do it.
And we did it and it.
And we actually bought ourhouse four years later, uh, or
no, six years later.
Six years later, we had twochildren and we bought our house
four years later, uh, or no,six years later.
Six years later, we had twochildren and we bought a house.
(13:59):
Six years later, you enteredthe house with the two children.
We rented our forever home thatwe bought and then we did out,
all by ourselves as well,because we just did it, we just
you just do it.
And, and how many lifeexperiences and how much, how
much you know goodness is thatbrought.
Yes, and it enabled the factthat you did have them.
At least mum and dad enjoyedthem, because then they passed
(14:21):
away.
Yes, they did, they got to seethem and you got all that
satisfaction with actuallymemories, you know, of having
our parents see your children.
Well, they would have.
Yeah, they wouldn't have seenmuch, they weren't in very good
health conditions Exactly by thetime you actually moved much
harder.
Yeah, so so you actually gotmum to actually enjoy your first
daughter.
A lot, you know, and and youhave all those memories which
(14:45):
you may not have had.
So sometimes you know, waitingfor the perfect moment might not
be the perfect moment.
You know, in real life it mightbe just the perfect moment that
you think is the perfect moment, because you've got this thing
in your head, you know this idea, programming whatever, of what
or the comparing it to otherpeople.
You know, I think nowadays morethan ever, it's so much because
(15:08):
of social media.
It always has been.
It has been.
Before it was like the nextdoor neighbor, what the group
was, but now it's like beingtenfold, a hundredfold
heightened, I know, becauseeverything is so curated on
social media that you believe,we all believe, we all get
fooled that life is really likethat.
When it's just one moment, one,we know it's not real, but
(15:31):
we're kind of like there's apart of our brain, there's a
part of our brain that wants itto be real Because it looks so
beautiful.
So then we compare ourselves toit and you know, as we were
chatting before when we werehaving a cup of tea, if we had
been like that I mean, when wedo this podcast, we video the
podcast as well, whereas so manyof our colleagues say, oh, no,
(15:52):
I can't video it.
No-transcript, you know, just gofor it.
We just go for it.
If we hadn't, we wouldn't havestarted a podcast.
No, never, no, so you wouldn'tbe listening to us now.
No, we would just say, no, weneed a team, you need someone to
(16:17):
edit it, you need someone tocurate it, you need you know
something to talk about.
Yeah, I mean, we just basicallytook chat about what we were
chatting about one minute beforein the kitchen, yeah, and then
our own experiences and you know, as, as as therapists as well,
that obviously comes in, butjust general, a lot of stuff
(16:38):
that just happens to us and andour families, so there's no need
to have it so curated, soperfect.
I think the imperfection is whatis what's attractive as well,
because when something is soperfect, you think, yeah, well,
but where's the soul in it?
Yeah, where's the soul you've?
I, when we look at our houses,we know we painted that room and
(17:00):
we might think, oh, yeah, Iknow that, you know.
I mean, like when we were doingour bathroom out and we've got
our little son who went it wastwo, who did a little.
Yeah, he came in to help hisdaddy and he did a little
scratch on the tile and you'vegot that memory, we've got that
still there.
We kept it where he scratchedthe tile because he wanted to.
(17:21):
Yeah, adorable, exactly.
But that's part of the history,of the feelings, of the
emotions in the end.
So, yeah, I think you know thismyth about everything having to
be perfect and curated is is isnot.
It's not true, it's not.
Nature is not like that either,is it?
(17:41):
If we look at nature I mean youlook at a field there'd be
millions of weeds in it, exactly, and then there'll be the odd
beautiful flower.
What, sometimes the weeds arethe beautiful flowers, you know
if it just depends how you'relooking at it because the
dandelions and everything elseis considered a weed.
Look at the beauty in it.
The daisies, you know, in mygarden now they're weeds, but
(18:02):
they're beautiful.
They're beautiful white flowers, perfect in their imperfections
, exactly.
Yes, I think that's it.
I think we have to look atthings a little bit differently
and allow more flexibility toenter our minds and take a deep
breath and just say look, thisis all part of the journey.
If it's going to be a goodthing in the end, if it's not
(18:22):
going to be toxic for us, ifit's going to be toxic for us,
and stop us doing what we reallywant to be doing right now,
just for us, and stop us doingwhat we really want to be doing
right now, just let go.
Is it worth it?
No, it's not.
It's never worth it.
It's actually.
You know, it can actually bevery dangerous for your health
and for everything else.
Yeah, and for the people aroundyou as well.
Yeah, because it can be a greatdampener on you know, your
(18:44):
social life, on the peoplearound you, if they know that.
You know like, oh dear, thatperson's going to get upset if
they invite us to dinner andthen the dinner doesn't come out
well, for example, yeah, weknow they're going to be grumpy
in the kitchen.
You know, there's no point,there's no, you might as well
just have a big laugh about it.
And, you know, just put it inyour memory cupboard.
(19:05):
Exactly, it's part of memories,isn't it?
Yeah, it's part of life,exactly.
So let us know if you enjoythis podcast.
You know, please do leave acomment if you're watching us on
youtube or send us a text ifyou're listening.
Wherever you get your podcastson apple podcast, spotify,
wherever you you are, and let usknow if you feel that you kind
(19:26):
of have become moreperfectionist over time and if
you think the social media isinfluencing you as well.
Exactly, or if you've gotanyone around you that's like
that.
Yeah, let us know.
See you next week.
Lots of love and smiles fromthe english sisters.
Bye.
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