JIA (6AM Group) - Developing The Mindset & GRINDSET for Success As An Artist

Sign up for the free Headliner Mindset Masterclass on 3/31 here:
https://www.nikcherwink.com/masterclass

And check out 6am Group's free ArtistMap training here:
https://artistmapby6am.teachable.com/p/artistmapby6am-phase1

JIA is a DJ, promoter, educator, and founder of the 6AM Group and ArtistMap. In this episode, we explore what it really means to be a successful artist in today’s music industry—and it goes way beyond just making tracks and playing shows.

JIA shares the full story behind building his promotion company and brand from the ground up, the hard lessons he learned about burnout, ego, and leadership, and why mindset is the foundation of everything. We talk about redefining success, building a career with purpose, and the importance of personal growth in the artist journey.

This episode is for any artist who’s feeling stuck, burned out, or limited by the industry’s rules. If you’ve ever questioned your path or felt like there must be more to it all, this conversation will reignite your fire and remind you why you started in the first place.

Episode Transcript

JIA (00:00):
it should be about taking care of your life first,

(00:02):
whether, you know, do you callit spirituality?
I do just calling it just like,personal development Because
Life is always gonna be on topof the artist journey.
So if we don't take care oflife, there is no artist
journey.

Nik (00:27):
What's up everybody?
Welcome to the Headliner MindsetPodcast.
Now, I know so many of you thatare listening are electronic
music artists that are grindingand hustling and making music
every day, making content everyday, and chasing the dream,
working hard towards becomingthe headliner that you were born
to be.
And I fucking love that.
And I have had the privilege ofworking with hundreds, if not

(00:51):
maybe thousands of artists atthis point during my 15 years of
working with artists in themusic industry, from major
record labels, to helping launchInsomniacs discovery project, to
being a manager to working atiCONN Collective.
And I've seen it happen.
I have seen people go fromsleeping on their friend's couch
to touring the world, makingmillions of dollars.

(01:12):
It is possible.
But I've also seen far morepeople not make it happen.
So many people that have slippedthrough the cracks that have at
some point got burned out, gotexhausted, and just quit on
their dream because the realityis yes, this is really
difficult.
It is a huge mountain to climb.
And I've also come to realizethat it's not just about
strategy.
It's not just about having greatmusic.

(01:32):
It's not just about being goodat marketing and branding and
being in the right place at theright time.
All of that is true, butunderneath that, there's a
deeper layer, which is reallyabout how's your mindset?
How's your energy?
Who are you as a person?
How are you showing up foryourself?
How much do you actually reallybelieve in all of this?
And what are you doing every dayto make it happen?

(01:55):
There's this conversation that alot of people aren't having, and
that's why I'm so passionateabout what I do, and I'm also so
passionate about what I'm aboutto share with you guys, which is
my very first ever freemasterclass.
I really want to teach you guyswhat it actually takes because
yes, it is about strategy, it isabout the music business, but if

(02:16):
you don't have your mindset andyour energy dialed in, if you're
not being the person that youneed to be, it's not gonna
happen.
I.
Straight up.
So I wanna invite you guys tojoin me for this free
masterclass where I'm going toteach you and show you what I
work on with my clients.
This is stuff that I've beendoing for seven years, working
with hundreds of artists now,just one-on-one through my

(02:37):
coaching, and I'm gonna break itdown.
I'm gonna share it with you.
So I would love to see youthere.
If you've been following thepodcast and resonating with the
content, this is gonna be anawesome opportunity to go even
deeper and to get connected withme.
We'll have a space to answerquestions, so would love for you
to join.
It's happening on Monday, March31st at five o'clock pst.
You can go register at nickcher.com/masterclass.

(03:02):
I'll put that link in the shownotes, but I'd love to see you
there.
Now, speaking of mindset, I'm soexcited to introduce my guest
for this week because he is oneof the only other.
Coaches and mentors that I haveseen in this space that's also
having this conversation thatalso recognizes it's not just
about the music and everythingelse, right?
It is also about your mindset,your emotional intelligence,

(03:24):
just who you are as a person,and we really dive into that on
this episode.
He has done some incrediblethings in the industry.
He's launched a huge brand inthe techno scene.
Throwing parties from San Diegoto la.
He has a merch company, awebsite.
He's built this incredible brandcalled 6:00 AM and I'm very
excited for you guys to checkout this episode.

(03:44):
So please enjoy my conversationwith Gia from 6:00 AM Group.

JIA (03:48):
All right.

Nik (03:49):
What's up brother?
Welcome

JIA (03:50):
Hey, hey.
What's up Nick?
How's it going?
Thank you so much for having me,um, through a recommendation
from Michael

Nik (03:57):
Yes.

JIA (03:58):
know.
So yeah, have to give him ashout out for that as well.

Nik (04:01):
bro.
I I'm so glad you did that'causeI was literally gonna do the
same thing.
I always like to shout out andgive a little bit of context to
usually how I meet my guests andMichael Hilton.
Shout out, melt.

JIA (04:12):
Yeah.

Nik (04:14):
Go look him up.
His music is so fucking good.
But not only that, he's one ofmy favorite people in the world.
Like he, we've done one-on-onecoaching together.
I've had him in, uh, men's grouptogether.
He's been in other coachinggroups that I've done, like,
we've done a lot of work overthe past couple years, and he's
just one of the most solid,genuine fucking dudes.
So when he looped us in, he waslike, yo, you gotta meet Gia.

(04:34):
He's the man.
You guys are kind of kindredspirits,

JIA (04:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He mentions that.

Nik (04:39):
you.

JIA (04:40):
Right on.
Yeah, no, I'm super excitedabout that.
And I agree, uh, in terms of hismusical talent and just who he
is as a person, I always get asense of peace and calmness when
I hang out with him or like whenI, you know, when you talk to
him.
So,

Nik (04:52):
dude.

JIA (04:53):
that's what he brings to a very chaotic industry or
community that we are in.

Nik (04:58):
Yeah, we,

JIA (04:58):
Hmm.

Nik (04:59):
we all could use a little bit more zen and peace and
groundedness, I think,

JIA (05:04):
Yeah,

Nik (05:05):
So,

JIA (05:05):
percent man.

Nik (05:06):
I love that man.
Well, you know, I've known about6:00 AM Group for a while back
when I worked at IconCollective, I would see some of
our students, uh, playing thoseshows.
I started seeing parties poppingup.
You guys were throwing shows and

JIA (05:20):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

Nik (05:21):
in LA in

JIA (05:22):
Yeah.

Nik (05:23):
So I've known about the brand for a while.
I would love to hear a littlebit about the story behind 6:00
AM

JIA (05:30):
Yeah.

Nik (05:31):
inspired you to start it and, and what is it exactly that
you guys do over there?

JIA (05:35):
I launched 6:00 AM group as a hobby, um, in March of 2008 in
San Diego.
And my only reason to startingthat collective with this brand
was because I was trying to DJin the local circuit and during
the MySpace days.
Or Friendster days.
If you look at every flyer, likeevery DJ name has some sort of

(05:56):
affiliation.
That was the thing, like, like aDJ name and affiliation is
almost like the standards ofthe, of the mid 2000 flyering.
And I feel like because I wasn'tpart of one, you know, I did try
to join other groups, you know,and I think perhaps my approach
or the, or my energy of justbeing too excited, it didn't
really resonate well.
And plus.
You know, networking, makingfriends in a new city is always

(06:17):
hard.
So I really was like, you knowwhat, since no one's taking me
in, I'm just gonna start thisthing called 6:00 AM.
At the time I was, you know, um,working at a financial district
in San Diego, had to be at workat 6:00 AM but then on the
weekends I would literally be ata liquor store waiting for them
to open because we're stillafter partying.
So like

Nik (06:38):
Yes.

JIA (06:39):
like the origin of 6:00 AM where like how it got started.
But then it's funny because it'sbeen 17 years now.
It's gonna be 17 years nextmonth,

Nik (06:46):
Wow.

JIA (06:47):
6:00 AM means a whole different meeting.
I mean, I was up that time, Iwas at the gym this morning.
It, it seems like you're also agym guy as well too, I imagine.
Uh, yeah.

Nik (06:56):
guy too.

JIA (06:57):
There you go.

Nik (06:58):
spot.
You know,

JIA (06:59):
There you go.

Nik (06:59):
always, I'm not always dialed in, but like, when I'm
dialed in, I'm a 6:00 AM guy.

JIA (07:03):
For sure, for sure.
So that's kind of like thebackstory behind it, but then
ultimately, like what we were,you know, it's like it.
Our identity was created throughthe journey because back then,
you know, I, I didn't know whatI was, it was just this brand
and I just started like writingabout music.
I just had a block spot account,and, um, MySpace account and was
just promoting shows and ravesaround the area because there

(07:25):
wasn't a lot of information atthe time.
Um, and so that was kind of thebeginning of my promoter
journey, if you will.
I just started doing it and inAugust of 2008 I moved to Los
Angeles and that was, that's,you know, a lot of people think
6:00 AM is an LA brand and itis, but it started in San Diego
and I always wanna start fromthere.
And then it was, when I moved upto LA during that time, that's

(07:48):
when, you know, uh, the wholescene opened up and I was, um,
promoting for a lot of Hollywoodclubs at the time.
So Vanguard used to be the oldCreate Avalon's still there.
Um, there was a club night everynight.
During that time, from Monday toMonday, there was Monday Social
focus, Tuesdays melodicWednesdays, a random Thursday,
and then Friday, Saturday,Sunday.
So we were promoting, you know,pretty much, uh, a sub promoters

Nik (08:11):
Yeah.

JIA (08:11):
all these parties.
And, you know, during that era,I collected a lot of emails and
that was the beginning journeyof how I eventually launched my
own party.
I've always wanted to DJ andalso throw parties.
That was kind of like why I gotinto it.
Like the party was fun.
DJing looks, you know, was evenmore fun than the actual
partying.
And so, you know, being 22, 23,that was the sole intention.

(08:35):
And I would have to say that,you know, it's been one of the
craziest journeys because notonly was there a lot of
self-discovery of like, me as ahuman being like, what do I
want?
Like, why am I doing this?
Like, this thing is so crazy.
It's, it's kind of toxic attimes.
And, um, to save, you know,everyone to some more breath.
I mean, like the journey wentfrom self-promoter and then

(08:56):
eventually in 2015, we did ourown first warehouse parties.
But before that, have to giveyou the story.
So I'm originally from Guam,which is a US territory based in
Asia.
Lots of World War II historystuff.

Nik (09:08):
Mm-hmm.

JIA (09:08):
and I launched a music festival in 2013.
So it was just always just like.
Events collective.
And then through the eventsjourney, it kind of just opened
up more doors.
And I have to give a shout outto my past mentor Steve Pryor,
who told me one thing that kindof changed the path of 6:00 AM
and my journey forever.
Um, eventually I did, uh, startto DJ a lot.

(09:31):
Like every Friday, Saturday,Sunday, Avalon, Joseph.
Vanguard side patio, all thatstuff.
And I was getting burnt out

Nik (09:38):
Hmm.

JIA (09:38):
I'm like, wait, I got what I wanted, uh, through 6:00 AM
and this is 2010, but why am Ifeeling like miserable and sad?
And he said these few verysimple words that changed
forever.
Hey, why don't just be more thana dj?
I was like, you know what, I'mgonna do just that.

Nik (09:56):
Yeah.

JIA (09:56):
I went back and I had this like personal journey of like,
you know what?
I think I should try to do morethan a.
Do more than what is on thesurface.
And so then that's when Ilaunched the 6:00 AM group.com
website and we started writingblogs, newsletters, media
started covering more groundsand being more of a global
company because up up untilthen, we were just more like
local promoters, if you will.

(10:17):
So that was kind of like whatled into that early 2010 era.
And then in 2015, aftercollecting emails for seven,
eight years, we had a.
Um, a list for us to startthrowing our own DIY parties
because here's what happenednext.
So after I stoppedself-promoting, I started
working with the clubs directly,and the deals are always shit.

(10:39):
Excuse my language.
It's either like, all right,they have a bar guarantee the
DJs make their money and youdon't get any of the bar, you
only get the tickets, but allyour friends want to come party
for free,

Nik (10:49):
Explain real quick, what a, what a I, I'd love to just break
down what that actually andlooks like.
as far as a bar guarantee, justfor people that don't understand
what that is, people that mightbe interested in throwing their
own

JIA (11:01):
Uh,

Nik (11:01):
are

JIA (11:02):
yeah,

Nik (11:02):
about how does that work with a venue?
If I want to throw a party, youknow, do I have to pay for it?
Like you said, a bar guarantee.
Can you

JIA (11:09):
yeah,

Nik (11:09):
of what

JIA (11:09):
yeah.
So, um, if you work with anormal nightclub or a bar, uh,
you can throw your party forfree.
In the beginning, like you canthrow it for free, but what a
bar guarantee is, is essentiallya contract saying, look, we'll
give you the venue, my staff,like everything for free, our
facilities, but you have to makesure the bar guarantees$5,000,

(11:31):
8,000, 9,000, 10, 15, 20, 30.
We've heard all sorts of numbersbefore,

Nik (11:36):
Yeah.

JIA (11:37):
and your job as a promoter is to cover that guarantee.
If you want to have a, if youwanna walk away without losing
any money.
Make sure you sell enough doortickets to cover your expenses,
and then also make sure youbring enough drinkers to cover
that bar guarantee, because youcould,

Nik (11:53):
And

JIA (11:53):
yeah,

Nik (11:54):
in the, you know, electronic music space.
Like not everybody's drinking.
People might be doing drugs.
Like, let's be straight up, youknow.
So sometimes it's like you get a$5,000 bar guarantee, but maybe
everybody there are.
Taking other party supplements,

JIA (12:10):
yeah, ex, exactly.
So that's the challenge.

Nik (12:13):
a lot at the bar.
So then you only sell$2,000worth of alcohol at the bar.
Now you gotta pay$3,000 to

JIA (12:20):
right, right.
We or nine do look,$8 bottles ofwaters exist for that reason.
So if any of you're wonderinglike, what the fuck's wrong with
this club charging$7 a bot,dude, it's because they have a
bar guarantee.
They're making the margins on abottle of water is really,
really hot as well.
Um, but yeah, look, my firstparty that I had a bar guarantee
was an after hours at a, at alegit club, meaning I couldn't

(12:40):
even sell alcohol.
It was just water and Red Bullfor like five hours.
And we, we, we, we almost hitthe bar guarantee, but

Nik (12:48):
Yeah.

JIA (12:48):
it is what it is.
And, uh, yeah, that isessentially what a bar guarantee
is and it could make or breakyou ultimately as a promoter,
especially if you're startingout without a lot to lose.
Um.

Nik (13:00):
into not just being the sub promoter, you had collected
enough email addresses over allof these years, and you stepped
into actually throwing your ownshows,

JIA (13:07):
Correct.

Nik (13:08):
directly with the bars and the venues and stuff, and
throwing your own parties.

JIA (13:12):
Yeah.
Correct.
And then through thatexperience, w working, uh, with
regular venues and nightclubs,it just wasn't worth it in terms
of like, well, if you're nottaking the whole night.
You know, it is just really notworth the squeeze unless you're
booking a big act.
But if you're a new promoter,you're not gonna book your
favorite headliners because theybelong to the live nation world,
right?
Insomniac, et cetera.
Like

Nik (13:33):
Yeah.

JIA (13:33):
a pecking order in terms of how you grow as a promoter, even
if you have the money.
But like it's your first party.
The agent's not gonna be like,oh, okay, great.
You can pay for it.
Here's our best artists for youto do this show.
Yeah.

Nik (13:44):
is gonna have loyalty to the Yeah.
The insomniacs, the livenations, there's a political,
like you said, pecking

JIA (13:50):
Yeah,

Nik (13:50):
it of like, if you wanna play EDC, you better be playing
insomniac clubs and not goingand playing some

JIA (13:55):
yeah, yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
But however, there are ways tonavigate that.
Like if you do establishyourself as a legit promoter
and, and insomniac for whateverreason, can't take the gig or
like it's EDC, you know, thereare opportunities where like if
you establish yourself as apromoter, you can get those
bookings, but it does.
Take some time to grow intothat.

(14:17):
You know, like you gotta makesure you can just pull people
without a headliner.
That should be your, your basisfoundation as a promoter is
like, what is your real pull?

Nik (14:26):
Hmm.

JIA (14:27):
Yeah.
So,

Nik (14:28):
who's playing, are people still gonna come just because
it's a 6:00 AM party?
Not necessarily because it's,you know, whoever's headlining.

JIA (14:35):
exactly.
Although, you know, that is a,it's a tough battle still, but,
but, but yeah, it's'causeheadliners drive ticket sales,
man.
That's, that's the reality.

Nik (14:45):
What I really love about your story, and this is a
conversation I've been findingmyself having a lot lately, is
that you didn't limit yourcreativity and your creative
energy.
I know part of that was kindlike you, you said you were
burning out and you're like,okay, I'm just burning out on
DJing.
So.
There are these other avenuesthat I can put my energy into

(15:05):
that might be more rewarding.
And like I said, I've beenhaving this conversation a lot
with people recently

JIA (15:11):
Mm-hmm.

Nik (15:11):
I think a lot of artists in a similar way, uh, are limiting
their creativity as a producer.
If all you're doing is like,okay,

JIA (15:21):
Yeah.

Nik (15:22):
an electronic music producer, this is who I am, and
so my creativity belongs in thestudio, and this is like the one
thing that I'm working on.
I think a lot of times yourcreative energy actually wants

JIA (15:34):
Yeah.

Nik (15:34):
go in different directions, but you're trying to force it in
a particular direction,

JIA (15:38):
Exactly.
And.

Nik (15:40):
like there might be, and when I say creative energy, I
mean that there is this like I.
Spiritual energy life force.
That is like the muses aretrying to visit us with ideas
that we are all creative beingswe're meant to create.
It's why we're here.
And sometimes we are trying tocontrol where it goes rather
than allowing that energy gowhere it wants to go.

(16:00):
Right?
Like you might be trying to belike, oh, I, I, I want to be a
techno producer so bad, and soI'm grinding

JIA (16:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Nik (16:06):
you're grinding and you're burning out.
You are trying to force yourenergy

JIA (16:11):
Yeah,

Nik (16:12):
into a, a corner.
Whereas when you open yourselfup and say like, wait a minute.
Yeah.
What else is possible?
Where else might this energywant to go?
What actually feels exciting?
That's the question I've beenasking

JIA (16:23):
exactly.

Nik (16:24):
if this is feeling really hard and you're feeling burnt
out, it's probably not the thingto be putting your energy into
maybe right now.
Like what actually is excitingfor

JIA (16:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Nik (16:34):
the website was exciting.
Throwing parties was exciting.
Cool.

JIA (16:37):
Yeah.
Yeah,

Nik (16:38):
that.

JIA (16:38):
yeah,

Nik (16:39):
don't, limit your creative energy to just be in this one
thing.
'cause that can be exhausting

JIA (16:44):
I mean, I love that you said that.
Yeah.
Because a lot of artists, theysee their entire journey as
linear, make music, dj, send outdemos, meet promoters.
Yay, I am here.
And it's like, no.
Like it is not linear.
It is,

Nik (16:56):
doesn't have to look like that.

JIA (16:58):
it's, and it's, most of the time it's not.
It's their own perspective thatthat is how it goes.
But it's.
I always say it's, it's makemusic, DJ something else, and
then it will take you to it.
Right.
And I think the more that youallow yourself to experience
more of this industry.
Right.
And to give you more context, Imean, on top of being a DJ
promoter, you know, label owner,an agent as well now a, a

(17:22):
mentor, were also, uh, thereleasing and dropping merch.
So really, you know, allencompassing.
At one point we were dealingwith artist visas.
You know, so it's just likeeverything encompassing related
to it.
I kind of just dabbled my headinto to kind of see if I like it
or not.
And, and through that journey,you know, it kind of just gave
me this more holistic view interms of how to approach it.

(17:43):
Right?
So a lot of the pushbacks that Iget from artists that you know
is like wadi.
You're not an actual touring dj.
It's like, yeah, one that istrue.
But through this whole holisticview, right, of like being in
every position, you kind of seehow it all works together
towards the artists.
And number two, you know, Idon't know if you ever get this
pushback, but it's like, dude,the best basketball coaches

(18:04):
aren't the best basketballplayers.
So like, you can't compare sodirectly.
'cause that's what people do.
And, and even the comparisons,it's all a very linear way of,
you know, to comparing.
And it's like, no, I think ifyou're able to see this.
A little bit wider and, and alittle bit deeper in terms of
perspective and know that thereare no rules into this.

(18:25):
Right.
And then ultimately, like yousaid, what excites you?
But I like to reverse that.
It's like, what makes youfulfilled?
'cause happiness, you know, it'swhatever, but what makes you
feel like, hmm,

Nik (18:34):
Yeah.

JIA (18:34):
I feel good about where I'm, what I'm currently doing?
And you don't have to be touringjust yet, but it's like where
you're on the journey.
Do you feel like wholefulfilled.

Nik (18:44):
yeah, yeah.
It's a great, it's a great toask.
It's a great.
Introspective journey to take oflike, yeah, what actually
fulfills me?
What about this world and aboutthis scene fulfills me as well,
right?
there's so many great examplesof, of artists that I've talked
to on this podcast.
When you hear about theirjourney and their

JIA (19:03):
Mm-hmm.

Nik (19:04):
you know, bear Grills is one of my favorite, favorite
ones where he's someone I've,I've knew for

JIA (19:08):
was just in Guam, by the way.
Yeah,

Nik (19:11):
the world.
Yeah.
He's

JIA (19:12):
yeah, yeah,

Nik (19:12):
literally playing, you know, all over the world,
internationally, touring

JIA (19:15):
yeah.

Nik (19:16):
started off very similarly.
He started off with a blog intothe am It was a blog,

JIA (19:21):
Oh, into the air.

Nik (19:23):
it was a, he had a merch, well, I think maybe then he was
throwing shows.
He was a promoter.
And then that turned into amerch company, which now is a
really big merch company.
You know, he sold it off.
But it was like three or fourthings.
Oh.
And he's a manager.
I mean, he still is a manager

JIA (19:37):
Yeah, yeah,

Nik (19:37):
you know, runs a management company with like eight artists
and is a dj and it's just like,don't limit to yourself to, uh,
yeah.
To one thing.
And, and you know, again.
There's no one right, or rightor wrong way to do any of this.
Uh, I I gotta, I gotta that

JIA (19:53):
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Nik (19:55):
for some people

JIA (19:56):
yeah,

Nik (19:56):
like a fucking straight line.
It's just like,

JIA (19:59):
yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

Nik (19:59):
it.
And they know that, and like,and cool.
But what I, what I just want toencourage is like, yeah, if it's
feeling like you said, if you'reburning out, if it's feeling
heavy, if it's feeling likeyou're pushing a boulder up the
hill, like allow yourself toexplore a little bit.
See what else is out there.
See, you know, and even justlike.
Even musically as an artist too,it's like maybe fuck around with

(20:20):
some other genres, go to someother parties.
Get out of that one scene that

JIA (20:23):
Yeah.

Nik (20:24):
a part of too, and, and see what else is out there.
It's a, it's a big world and Ithink especially as an artist,
like a real true artist, and,and I do make the distinction
between DJ slash producer versusactually being an

JIA (20:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Nik (20:39):
is going to really be in tune and be curious about life
and all of the different flavorsand all of the different types
of things that they can tasteand touch and play with and
experiment.
It's not about figuring out theformula, it's about continuous
reinvention and exploration.
And there's just

JIA (20:59):
yeah.
Yeah.

Nik (20:59):
much to life for us to you know, fuck around with and

JIA (21:03):
Yeah,

Nik (21:03):
there and

JIA (21:04):
a hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
Look, um, an artist, they're notlinear.
They're more curious thananything else.
A DJ producer is not verycurious, like, dude, this is the
music that I'm trying to DJ andproduce, and so therefore this
is it.
So I definitely do

Nik (21:19):
that.

JIA (21:20):
nothing wrong with that.
But here's the thing, you know,I feel like everyone who is kind
of make you know.
Labeling themselves who theyare.
I mean, at the end of the day,everyone is, is ultimately an
artist and creator.
So are you, I mean, you're acreator of this platform,
creator of,

Nik (21:33):
I.

JIA (21:34):
of, of spreading this message, getting more people
and, and, and this is art in away.
It's called art throughcommunication.
Right.
As an event organizer, promoter,like the, we're the artists of
tonight's event.
We're curating the production,the, the operation, the artists,
you know, all that stuff.
And like in our way, that's inour own art.
And so I don't.
For anybody that's watchingthis, just'cause you're not a DJ

(21:54):
producer or, or, or a producer,like, it doesn't mean that
you're not an artist as well,because that's ultimately we're
all creating,

Nik (22:03):
Let's

JIA (22:03):
all creating something.
If you're creatingopportunities, I mean, you're
the artist of opportunities

Nik (22:08):
it's really cool.
I'm actually going through, Ihave it right here.
I'm going through this bookagain right now.
The artist, the Artist's

JIA (22:13):
Okay, nice.

Nik (22:14):
it.

JIA (22:15):
I have not, but I, okay.
But I'm gonna dive into, I'minto bucks too,

Nik (22:19):
It's, it's a, this is a course, this is like a 12 week,
um,

JIA (22:23):
oh, sh.

Nik (22:24):
really dope.
I'm running a group through itright now, but it's bringing me
back in touch with my roots ofhow and why I started what I do
in the first place as far asbecoming an artist coach.
Um, and, and I, and I think it'sgood.
I'm, first time I'm really likedistinguishing this and saying
this out loud, and I think it'sgood

JIA (22:41):
Yeah.

Nik (22:41):
that.
I'm not.
I'm not a DJ coach, I'm not aproducer coach, but, but really
being an artist coach andhelping people get deeper in
touch with their inner artist,and one of the really basic,
almost like philosophies that Ilike to look at and to point out
is the fact.
That literally all of us arecreations.

(23:05):
Like we were created.
You were created by

JIA (23:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Nik (23:08):
All of us are all living, breathing, walking, talking
manifestations of creativeenergy.
And the truth is, we arecreating all the time.
Everybody is creating all thetime, right?
It's

JIA (23:19):
Mm-hmm.

Nik (23:19):
it consciously or unconsciously, right?
We're creating our

JIA (23:22):
Yeah.

Nik (23:23):
your body, you're creating your relationship, you're
creating your financialsituation.
We're creating this stuff thatwe call.
Art.
But at the end of the day, thebiggest piece of art that
everybody is creating is,

JIA (23:33):
Is you?

Nik (23:34):
of their life.

JIA (23:35):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Is you,

Nik (23:36):
you're creating your

JIA (23:37):
you are the art.

Nik (23:38):
artists, and I know that's some deep meta shit, but it's
kind of cool when you seeyourself of like, wait a minute,
like everything I do is art.
Everything I do is creativity.
And it's like, yeah, let's notlimit it as just this, this five
minute song is art.
It's like, well, what about therest of it, man?
Like my,

JIA (23:53):
Yeah, exactly.

Nik (23:54):
You know the, the culinary arts, they call that,

JIA (23:56):
Exactly, man.
A hundred percent.

Nik (23:58):
when you approach it that way.
Yeah,

JIA (24:00):
Absolutely, dude.
And just, yeah, this is endlessin terms of.
How you chop it down.
And I love how you also justmentioned, you know, that you
have to give a disclaimer that,that, um, it can go either way.
I mean, every advice that youhave given out it, you know,
it's, it can go either way.
And I recently came in with aconclusion.
I literally came up with alecture.

(24:22):
I'm like, you know what?
'cause there's just so manyquestions, just so many
questions.
And I've answered so many ofthem that in the end as I do,
we're, we're all right and wrongat the same time.
And I want to use an example.
Of this, just a very basicexample, because an advice is
only, it can only be given to aperson that is going through a
certain context.
So for example, like here's thequestion, Nick, should I start a

(24:45):
music label?
Well, the answer could be yesand no.
It just depends on your contextof it.
I mean, if you just startedmaking music three months ago
and you're still in thatjourney, the answer is probably
no.
But if you've been making musicfor four or five years and you
are actually putting music out,et cetera, and like you feel
like you've defined your son andyou're ready to take that next
level, then the answer is yes.
You should create that platformto give opportunities for

(25:05):
yourself and for others.
Again, right?
One question, but it could beyes and no.
And so like I'm literallysitting there like, oh my God,
having my own meta moment.
Like, dude, everything is rightand everything is wrong.
And, and the answer thateveryone's looking for.
You have to do the work.
You have to take the step tomeet the answer.
you, as the creative soul needsto unveil or, or weed through

(25:27):
all that in order to find youranswer, because only your
obstacle is unique to you.
Kind of like how we're all ourown DNAs, your own journey, your
own luck.
And the biggest problem that I.
Freaking, oh, I, I'm justgetting frustrated, is a lot of
these artists, they want thisanswer of when, well, when Nick,
if I work this hard and I putthree years in and I do all

(25:50):
this, will I make it in threeand a half years?
It's like, dude, if you, if youknow a program that can tell you
the exact when, let me know.
'cause I wanna sign up for that.

Nik (26:01):
Yeah.
Man, I, I remember when I wasyounger, probably high or
something, had this realization.
I was

JIA (26:07):
Hey.

Nik (26:07):
We all live on the same planet.
like 8 billion people living onthe same planet, living in 8
billion different worlds.
I don't live in the same worldas you.
I live in the world of NickSwin.
Right.
And so the, any advice that'sgiven to anybody, like you said,
it might work for some peopleand it might work for, it might
not work for, for, for others.

(26:28):
Right.
And and

JIA (26:28):
Yeah.

Nik (26:29):
like.
I ultimately am living in my ownworld and my path is my path,
and it's my journey and my ownset of rules that I get to make
up.
You know what I mean?
So it's

JIA (26:39):
Yeah.

Nik (26:39):
the only way to really figure it out is to, I think
it's one really important tolisten to yourself.
It's great to take all theadvice, and this is coming from
two coaches, two teachers andeducators and coaches, and

JIA (26:50):
Yeah.

Nik (26:51):
yeah, listen to listen to everything I have to say and
fucking listen to nothing

JIA (26:55):
Thing I have to say.

Nik (26:56):
to any of it.
And like.
Listen to yourself and figureout your

JIA (26:59):
Yeah,

Nik (27:00):
you know, and,

JIA (27:01):
yeah,

Nik (27:01):
you know, you gotta try shit out and see what works for
you.
But yeah, there's no one sizefits all for anything in life
because everyone is living theirown life, their

JIA (27:10):
yeah, yeah, exactly.
That's why it's gonna even beharder for me to do Q and As
moving forward.
I literally had this epiphanylike a week and a half ago.
I was like, I'm done with Q andAs.
'cause whatever I say, it'seither right or wrong.
I mean, yes, that there's peoplethat agree on it, but it's like,
okay, but then.
That's just for you.
I feel like we need to add thatcontext moving forward.
Like, look, it just works foryou.

(27:30):
Now, if you guys all agree, itmeans you're on the same
context.
For those of you that don'tagree, let's have a side chat
about this anyways.
Yeah.

Nik (27:38):
I love it, man.
Well, look, let's talk about,what else you have going on.
'cause you have as, as a fellowcoach, a fellow mentor, a fellow
educator.
You have Artist Map, which isthe program that you offer for,

JIA (27:51):
Correct.
For electronic music artists.
Yeah.

Nik (27:54):
tell me about Artist Map.
What is it, what are youoffering over there?
What does that look like?

JIA (27:58):
uh, first, if you don't mind me just sharing a little
bit of the story, because a lotof people do ask me, uh, one of
the doubts that people have islike, why are you doing this,
GIA?
Like, are you really desperatefor like money and all?
Or like all these things like,well first and foremost there's,
there's some, but there's not a,a lot of money just yet to be
made and stuff.
And, and I was taken aback'causeit was after one of a really

(28:19):
good session that I had withthis.
With an artist.
And I was like, do you have anyother questions?
They're like, yeah, why are youdoing this?
'cause you're, you're busy asshit.
Just throwing events, everythingthat we see on stuff, and like,
now that you're making 30minutes, 40 minutes a day or an
hour, you know, however manyyou'd like to talk to me.
And I, and, and I'm just an upand coming aspiring artist.
And I have to share the storybecause, um, artist map actually

(28:42):
saved my journey and 6:00 AM sothis is in 2017, 18.
I've done 6:00 AM for 10 yearsnow.
My approach.
During that period, it was veryselfish, Nick, right?
Me, me, me, my, my brand, mygigs, my team, me, me, me, me,
me.
And when everything crashed andburned.
And when you have the mentality,no one is there for you.
Everyone fucking laugh.

Nik (29:02):
totally.

JIA (29:02):
and then, and then you're there with the build, you're
there with, you know, the debt,and then you're there with the
reality of like, dude, I justspent 10 years here.
Why am I still doing this?
Everyone left.
I feel toxic as shit.
I'm burnt out.
I'm, you know, I'm borderline ofsubstance abuse.
You, you know what I mean?
Like, like everything allencompassing, but it's like, no,
I love this.
I, I've dedicated to this.
And so in order for me to kindof.

(29:24):
Go through a spiritual journey,or whatever you want to call it,
like in terms of my own, likefinding discovery to not quit.
I learned the concept of givingvalue to people and, and really
doing it genuinely.
And, and when I realized thatconcept, like, oh my God, I did
everything wrong the last 10years, I was not giving value to
anyone besides me, and I wasthis toxic leader, like my way

(29:47):
or the highway.
I,

Nik (29:48):
Yeah.

JIA (29:48):
you know, dude, I've gone through a hundred plus people on
the team.
I'm not proud of that either.
Her

Nik (29:52):
Mm.

JIA (29:53):
right.
But ultimately, I realizedinstead of quitting, I need to
turn all this knowledge and helpthis community.
And the biggest community thatmake up the scene outside of
ravers and consumers of thescene, uh, they're artists.
So that's why I started ArtistMap with that intent.
Now, I'm not a.
A producer, producer per se.

(30:14):
Um, I wouldn't say I could teachpeople how to dj, like I know
how, but then the teaching theDJing, that's not really my
thing.
So I, I was like, you know what,well, how can I come into this
education online course space inthis niche and, and still
provide value?
Well, you know what?
There's a billion answers to befigured out after they learn how
to make music and DJ.
Right.
So, ultimately, the way Iexplain artist map is, you know,

(30:36):
we're a basketball camp thatdon't teach you how to dribble,
shoot and, and rebound.
We teach you how to go to theNBA.
We have all the tools now thatyou learn how to dribble, shoot
and, and rebound pass, which nowthat you know how to DJ and make
music, and it's, it's goodenough.
All right, cool.
This is how you approachpromoters, labels.
This is how you start your ownlabel.
This is how you throw your ownparties.
This is how you be moreempowered.

(30:57):
This is how you negotiate withit.
With venues.
This is how you deal withinterpersonal relationships with
other people.
This is how you deal with, dude.
It's crazy, right?
DJ Duos.
A DJ Collective, or promoterCollective, come on.
We all know what happens afterfour or five years or after
their first major setback.
Bridges are burned'cause nobodyknows how to communicate.

Nik (31:18):
Yeah.

JIA (31:18):
even teach that like dude.

Nik (31:20):
Yeah.

JIA (31:20):
know, don't be like me burning a hundred some people,
right?
Because you couldn't communicateyour thoughts or vision and all
that.
Or like you didn't have thecourage to go through the
difficult conversations to savethat instead of burning it.
So with that in mind, I waslike, dude, I have something
highly valuable to offer that isunique to me because I've also

(31:42):
been in every position that thisindustry has to offer.
I mean.
Really, like I've worn all thehats and I've realized, dude,
through all the hats, all ofthem, all play a part in helping
artists.
And, and every artist just needsto understand how these
positions are also being placed.
So that's ultimately it.
But here's the thing.
I went through my own impostersyndrome journey.
I went through my own artistjourney as well, of who am I to

(32:04):
teach.
I'm not a touring artist.
And I had to like.
Get out of that mentality aswell.
And at the same time it's like,wait, I need to create a lot of
content.
And that's super scary.
I mean, it's like, the internetis the internet.
Like once you throw yourself outthere, like you're not hiding
behind a 6:00 AM brand.
Like it is your,

Nik (32:22):
Yeah.

JIA (32:22):
it is your faith, your, you're facing your mouth out
there.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, it's so, so I went throughjust like this crazy journey and
it wasn't only until the lastlike year and a half that I was
like, you know what?
Like, I need to stop being alittle bitch.

Nik (32:35):
Yeah.

JIA (32:36):
to actually start doing the things that I preach.
Others like, you gotta go forit.
And so that's kind of where I amright now.
You know, I have mindsetcourses, I have time management,
I have communication.
I'm also teaching artists how tobe better, how to throw their
own parties.
'cause everyone's like, no, noone's booking me.
Well throw your own parties andguess what?
After you throw your own party,that promoter's gonna be like,
oh wait, let's book this artistbecause, et cetera.

(32:59):
So I really, you know, that's mywhole ethos.
And a lot of mindset.
A lot of mindset that I feellike this is where we also
connect as well.
And I feel like, you know, Ithink this is where Michael felt
the connection as well.
He's like, you and Nick reallyhave this holistic approach that
like, you know, it should beabout taking care of your life
first, whether, you know, do youcall it spirituality?
Um, you know, I do just callingit just like, dude, personal

(33:22):
development as well, right?
Because the artist's journey isthis, but then there's life.
Life is always gonna be on topof the artist journey.
So if we don't take care oflife, there is no artist
journey.

Nik (33:33):
A thousand percent man.
that was what got me reallyexcited to connect with you
because I was like, afterlooking at some of your content
and looking at the artist mapstuff, I was like, you're like
the only other person that I'veseen out there.
That is teaching the mindsetstuff in this niche, in this
industry to this demographic.

(33:54):
There's a lot of marketingcourses out there.
There's branding courses,there's so many fucking
production courses, teaching allthese really important parts of
what it takes to succeed as anartist.
But that was the big thing thatI learned.
Working at at Icon Collectivefor seven years and years before
that, we've been working atCapital Records, working as a
manager.
You know, literally worked withthousands of artists and

(34:17):
specifically in this niche, youknow, I had, yeah, over a
thousand students that I workedwith during my seven years at
Icon and.
a lot of them, I, I should say Isaw some of them go on to blow
up and

JIA (34:30):
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.

Nik (34:31):
them go on to have successful careers, but a lot of
them that didn't.
Right.
A lot of

JIA (34:35):
Majority didn't.
Majority didn't.

Nik (34:37):
sure.
For sure.
And it's like, okay, what wasit?
Was it the music?
Was it, you know, the branding?
Was it the marketing?
And the thing is, underneaththat, underneath all of it is
are you as a person, right?
Do you have the hunger?
Do you have the drive?
Do you believe in yourself?
Are you taking care of yourself?
Where's your mindset?
Where's your energy?
You know what I mean?

(34:57):
Like there's this whole otherconversation that just.
Nobody was having.
And, and that's how I kind ofgot pulled into literally
becoming a life coach.
Like I, I had this calling tojust do life coaching and it
just so happened to be thateverybody in front of me,
everybody that I knew were allartists.
And so I just kind of fell intothat.
But I.
I'm just really happy to seeother people starting to have

(35:19):
that conversation

JIA (35:20):
Yeah.

Nik (35:20):
it's like, if your head's not in a good place, if your
energy's not in a good place,if, if you don't have the energy
to make music, you're not gonnabe able to.

JIA (35:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nik (35:30):
and you're like, you know, I know a lot of your

JIA (35:31):
Yep.

Nik (35:31):
dig in a little deeper, is that time management and that
discipline, and it's like someof that basic personal
development.
How to structure your life stuffif, if that's not there, it's
the foundation of everything andthe rest of it is gonna be
really

JIA (35:44):
Yeah, exactly.

Nik (35:45):
a boulder up the hill.

JIA (35:46):
I mean, look, I always say what good is your peace of gear?
If you don't have your peace ofmind, what good is your peace of
gear?
Like, come on, nothing great.
You know, marketing, but you'relike having imposter syndrome.
Mentally you have depression,anxiety.
It doesn't matter whatinformation knowledge you have,
if you don't have that grit.
I also call it grit, which is abook by Angela Duckworth.

(36:07):
She like, kind of scientificallycoined that word.
It's, relentlessness, I guess.
But it's also just like thisnever ending.
Like you're never gonna give up.
And like, you know, and I knowthis, this is a touchy subject
because I have been told likeGia, like the.
You and your Gary V style, likebullish shit, like dude, just
grind, just hustle, just grind,just hustle.

(36:28):
It's like you're up.
You are actually hurting people,but it's like, yeah, dude,
that's true.
But ask anyone who's eversucceeded and be like, yeah,
they did it super easy.
Nine to eight, nine to five 30hours and burnout.
What's a burnout?
It's like, come on.
Like dude, that is the journey.
So it's like, I don't encouragea burnout, but I will say that a

(36:49):
burnout is inevitable if youreally have that hunger.
Like if you're really goingafter something that you care
about, that's difficult.
That's not so organized as inlike, oh, this.
Is how you become an accountant.
Right?
And that was supposed to be myjourney.
Like you do, you do this, youtake a CPA, you intern at Ernst
and Young and you become throughnot this journey.

Nik (37:08):
Yeah.

JIA (37:09):
is is something else.

Nik (37:13):
It's entrepreneurship and it's a totally different, uh,
it's a totally different

JIA (37:17):
I know.
I know.
But Nick, I'm an artist.
I'm not an entrepreneur.
It goes back to what you justmentioned while your linear
approach of thinking that youare just an artist.
It's like, dude, you gotta bemore fluid.
You gotta open up your mindlike, yes, you're an artist, but
you gotta have.

Nik (37:34):
You don't have to be both.
You can be just an artist, youknow what I mean?
I, I'm getting back into makingmusic this year'cause I like to
play the guitar and I wannarecord some metal riffs.
I'm not trying to start afucking band and tour the world,
though.
I'm not trying to turn that intoa business and have that become
my full-time job and myfull-time career.
I already have that.
The.
Big thing that I learned withinthe first couple episodes of, of

(37:57):
starting this podcast and I hadthis huge light bulb go off
where I realized that really isthe missing link for a lot of
artists is seeing themselves notjust as an artist, but making
the decision to say, Hey, I'malso going to step into this
world of entrepreneurship andI'm

JIA (38:11):
Yeah.

Nik (38:11):
going to start a business.

JIA (38:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Nik (38:14):
that does come a lot of long hours.
And a lot of like learning, alot of education, a lot of trial
and error.
Just, you know, like any otherperson, starting any other kind
of business in any industry,it's a fucking, it's, it's a
grind.

JIA (38:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Nik (38:28):
no way around it, you know?
But I think there also are, youknow, don't know.
I'm still learning.
I'm still learning on myjourney.
I mean, you've been doing itfor, for, you

JIA (38:37):
I am still learning too.

Nik (38:38):
as well.
It's

JIA (38:39):
I'm still learning too.
Yeah.

Nik (38:40):
I, I think that there are.
What's cool is there arebecoming a lot of resources out
there to help people do itbetter, do it more efficiently.
Just like building teams, nottrying to do it all by yourself,
right?
Like, building in rest to makesure that you don't

JIA (38:57):
Yeah.

Nik (38:57):
I work on a lot with my clients.
I'm like, make sure like, yeah,you, you do take a day off and
go to the fucking

JIA (39:02):
Yeah, yeah.

Nik (39:04):
And that's part of the, the sustainability.

JIA (39:06):
Yeah.

Nik (39:07):
you know, Again, there's no right.
Way to do any of it.
You gotta figure out

JIA (39:10):
there really isn't.

Nik (39:12):
gonna work for you.

JIA (39:13):
Yeah.
Look, um, for any artist that'swatching this, that's struggling
of like, well, I'm an artist,not an entrepreneur, not a
business, look, I'm just gonnaset this straight.
Your music is a product and yourperformance is a service.
Uh, every business sells aproduct or a service, so I'm
sorry.
By that default, you are inbusiness for yourself.
And if you understand that, ifyou are in business for

(39:34):
yourself, why would you not?
Be the best you can be, but Iguess there are shitty pizza
shops and shitty coffee shops,so that's why shitty artists
also exists as well.
Um, I also want to

Nik (39:44):
so tell me a little bit more about what are the courses
that you offer with Artist Mapspecifically?

JIA (39:50):
Yeah, so we have a free course, which is the mindset and
discipline and approach as well.
Approach is important as well,right?
So I mean, you meet the promoterthat you're finally meeting or
you're like, oh my God, nice tomeet you.
Here's my USB book.
Me, dude.
You know, I've done that before.
I've seen other people do thatto me.
So approach is also like a bigpart of it is like what is your

(40:10):
acumen?
What is your temperance in orderto deal with that?
So that is the foundation ofthat is like, hey, do you have
the mindset?
Do you have the discipline andapproach?
And this is how it is and thisis what I'm gonna say.
I created Artist Map to alsohelp people save time and to
just make them realize like,Hey, if you're gonna quit at 33,
I might as well make you realizethat at 24.

(40:31):
So we're saving nine years ofyour time.
Just like you don't have to gothrough this nine years, 10
years, 11 years.
Be like, oh, this wasn't for me.
We could have told you that.
We could have told you that,that this is how it's gonna go
down.
So ultimately, I give everyone avery honest, blueprint and it's
essentially, um, broken downinto four phases with bonus
courses in between.
So phase one is mindset anddevelopment and approach.

(40:53):
And in there it's a homework.
It's a homework assignment thatcould last four to eight years.
And it's just a one sentencehomework assignment.
Produce music, 80% as good asyour favorite producer.
And send that over to me.
And I have a team of engineersthat could validate that for you
and dude, to get your music.
80, 90% as good as your favoriteproducer.
That's a four to eight yeargrind depending how, how long

(41:16):
you're doing it.
And guess what, I don't see alot of people in phase two'cause
they have to pass phase one

Nik (41:21):
Yeah.

JIA (41:22):
get to phase two.
So a thousand people, 1200 andthen like, like only like 90
gets through because everyone'slike, well I'm not gonna do this
homework.
So then, then there's phase two.
It's actually the real artistjourney, right?
Then you make music and DJ tomake sure you hold that
foundation because you gottalearn how to pass, dribble, and
shoot or else the fuck youdoing, right?

Nik (41:45):
Yeah.

JIA (41:45):
phase two is all about social media, marketing,
branding, and that selfidentity.
What is your artist's identity?
Now that you know how to makemusic, you know how to make
techno house hip hop dubstepgreat.
What is it that you really want?
How are you gonna showcase theworld, et cetera.
And that's own phase, phasethree, which is about to be
launched.
It's about building your owncommunity.
And what this means is eitherlaunching a label or launching a

(42:06):
collective.
Because look, it's true.
Adam Bayer, drum code, JamieJones Paradise, tell of us
afterlife, da da da da da

Nik (42:12):
Yeah.

JIA (42:13):
Like it's inevitable.
So you might as well start to dothat, right?
Like.
And the only reason why it's inphase three is because, look,
this journey is crazy.
It's like phase one, you're theartist, phase two, you're still
the artist.
Now, phase three, you gotta bethe artist and now create a
label or a collective

Nik (42:29):
Yeah.

JIA (42:29):
still take care of your artistry, take care of that.
Phase four is where I callTurning Pro.
And actually there's only beentwo artists that's made it that
far into their journey.
And actually I represent themnow as an agent.
I know.
So a lot of them don't even knowthat.
What's phase four?
I go, congratulations.
I'm your agent.
They're like, oh shit.
And then we go through thiscrazy journey.

(42:49):
'cause now they're going throughthis crazy journey of like,
dude, I thought I, you're, I'mlike, it's so hard to get you
gigs.
I know.
Welcome to the first part ofphase four.
It's called a reality check.
Just'cause you have an agent,just'cause you have an agent or
a manager.
It doesn't mean jack shit.

Nik (43:06):
Yeah.

JIA (43:07):
it doesn't, you know, you still have to put in the work

Nik (43:09):
you need to

JIA (43:10):
you, you need the man.
You need a lot of demand and allof that.
So ultimately that covers it.
And then, you know, it's under aprogram called the Game Changer
Pro.
So there's a lot of informationthat.
Will help you get through phaseone, phase two, phase three, and
eventually phase four as well.
And then I have a timemanagement mastery, and then a
communication mastery, which iscoming out later this summer.

(43:30):
The communication one, it's moreabout team communication,
obviously there's relationshipcommunication, communication
with your spouse.
That's a, that's one I I, I needto read up on,

Nik (43:40):
that course.

JIA (43:42):
but it's more about team communication.
How do you, you know, build ateam?
How do you manage a team?
How do you manage egos as well?
How do you decipher.
Ulterior motives within it,right?
Because look, six hand used tobe a DJ collective, and at at
the peak of that DJ Collectivebrother, I was their booking
agent.
They would come in and be like,all right, G, where am I playing
this weekend?
I'm like, dude, uh, you'replaying Avalon.

(44:03):
You're playing this after hours,all that, and it can get toxic.
And it's like they won't do thework unless there's a gig.
So like that whole thing justcompletely like crashed and
burned and stuff.
So there's a lot of.
I'm telling you, there's a lot,and it's, and it's because we're
dealing with people the thewhole way.
The whole way.
And then you're dealing withyourself and other people, egos.

(44:24):
Nobody knows how to communicate.
Nobody knows how to do businessthe right way,

Nik (44:28):
It's so important, man.
And, and again, I think it isthe, it's

JIA (44:33):
a beer.

Nik (44:34):
a big piece of the puzzle that a lot of people are not
talking about.
It's so cool to see you talkingabout it, um, because.
Those lessons that took you,yeah.
10 years to learn, 15 years tolearn.
Same thing with me.
I mean, I've been in theindustry for Yeah.
15 years as

JIA (44:52):
Fuck.
Yeah.

Nik (44:52):
I was a, a manager, a big, a huge part of my job as a
manager.
It's all relationships.
It's all communication andnegotiation and, and do people
like you and are you developing,you know, healthy relationships
and alliances and it's so, it'slike, so.
Much less about businessstrategy than it is about
emotional intelligence is reallywhat we're talking

JIA (45:14):
Yeah.
100%, man.

Nik (45:16):
I'm like, fuck, if somebody could have taught me this stuff
when I was in my early twentiesand I was trying to navigate the
music business, even just as amanager, you know, I kind of had
to learn all those lessons,

JIA (45:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Nik (45:27):
way.
So to have someone that's gonnabreak it down and like you said,
kind of save people time, it isso huge, right?
Because in the music industry,to a large extent, it is about
who you know, but it's reallyabout who you know that actually
likes you and fucks with

JIA (45:43):
Fuck.
It's crazy, right?

Nik (45:45):
people are gonna do favors for their friends, and this is
where you have a lot of likefake bullshit ass kissing kind
of ego type of stuff.
But like when you can.
Really be a solid person.
Also have really healthyboundaries and, and not be a
people pleaser or a pushover,but really be like genuine and

(46:05):
authentic.
Be humble, but also again, bestrong and have those
boundaries.
It's like there's so muchcharacter development that you
have to have to be able to like,especially the deeper you go and
you really start fucking withlike.
Big people in the industry, yougotta have a really rock solid
internal character and, there'sa lot of work that you actually
can do on that.

(46:25):
Like a lot of it is like, youhave to just kind of get in the
game and you develop that alongthe way.
But

JIA (46:29):
Yeah.

Nik (46:30):
you study the shit and you work on it and you learn it,
it's like there's, there's a lotthat you can learn.
I've been, studying personaldevelopment since I was, yeah.
21, 22, like right outta college

JIA (46:39):
Damn crazy.

Nik (46:40):
really fucking well, you know?

JIA (46:42):
Yeah, dude, I only got into personal development like a
little bit in my early thirties,going into mid thirties.
'cause I was just so entrenchedin this.
I mean, and that's why I was apiece of shit asshole.
Like, I mean, I'm just gonna sayit, say it that way.
I mean, I wasn't the nicest, Iwasn't the nicest in terms of
how I approached it, uh, in mytwenties, but, but I got a lot
of things done.
But

Nik (47:01):
Yeah,

JIA (47:01):
it was very, uh, yeah.

Nik (47:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.

JIA (47:04):
Absolutely, and, and look, uh, to unpack what you just said
right here, because a lot ofpeople are like, look,'cause I
get it, like we're in thequestion economy now.
So all the artists like, dude,that sounds great Nick.
How do I do that?
How do I become that?
So I want to just be able togive someone who's watching this
some just very basic guidance.
Number one, always ask, how canI give value to others without

(47:25):
expecting anything in return?
Because here's the reality,right?
If you're really genuine aboutthis, it will test you.
It will really fucking test yourcharacter, because by giving,
and then just like, yeah, Idon't need anything.
I don't want nothing.
I don't want to gigs, I don'twant money.
I, I'm, I'm just here to giveand provide value that will test
you, and that will reveal whoyou really are.
Because, you know, I just posteda video today in terms of like.

(47:48):
Don't be a this for that.
Networking is aboutrelationships, not transactions,
right?
But then I ended it with, look,do it genuinely and not because
some asshole, not because someperson on Instagram told you to
do so.
Because, because here's thething, Nick, this is one thing a
lot of artists are good at,artists are smart and be like,
that's a great idea.
Now I'm gonna take advantage ofthat mentality and like, I'll do

(48:08):
it genuinely, but in my soul andmy heart.

Nik (48:11):
Yes.

JIA (48:12):
Ooh, Nick and Gia said that if I, if I act this way, if I
act this way, be like, oh yeah,here's, but then dude, I'm, I'm
here to tell you if, if in yourheart, if it still has that the
universe, God, whatever you wantto call it, this thing, it's
just gonna push you further awayfrom it.
And then you're gonna be evenmore pissed off.
Be like, Nick Gia, it didn'twork.

Nik (48:32):
Yeah, bro.

JIA (48:33):
It,

Nik (48:34):
This is it, bro.
This is, this is, this is theshit I really work on with
people in, in

JIA (48:38):
go.

Nik (48:38):
one-on-one coaching stuff.
'cause it is, it's like, yes,this is the Headliner Mindset
podcast, but I love that you'reactually pointing at your heart
if it's not in your heart.
It's not just the mindset, it'salso the heart set where your
heart, where's your soul, youknow what I

JIA (48:53):
Yeah.
I call it grind set.
Yeah.

Nik (48:55):
set.

JIA (48:56):
Your mindset grind.
Set.
Yeah.

Nik (48:57):
that, that lesson right there, you know, you were saying
that.
IIII love that you're bringingit up again, this idea of, uh,
give unconditionally.
Right.
Give first before you take, Iwas so lucky.
To learn that lesson.
Pretty early on in my career,I'd worked at Capital Records
for the first three years of mycareer, and then was a manager

(49:18):
for like a, like a year or two.
And so during those firstexperiences, it was straight up
music business like, what do wehave to do to promote our
artists to get our, you know, toget our bag, to

JIA (49:32):
Or, yeah.
Yeah.

Nik (49:34):
it was this.
Total kind of cutthroat musicbusiness

JIA (49:37):
Yeah.

Nik (49:37):
a

JIA (49:37):
Yeah,

Nik (49:38):
wasn't until I started working at Icon Collective that,
shout out David Alexander.
I actually have an episode withhim.
Highly recommend all of you

JIA (49:45):
Nice.

Nik (49:46):
the episode with David Alexander, one of the co-owners
of Icon Collective.
But

JIA (49:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Nik (49:50):
me down and he was like, he's like, Hey man.
He was like, if you're gonna bethe one out there, like really
being the face of our companyand, and representing the
collective, I want you toapproach every relationship from
the perspective.
What can I do for you?

JIA (50:03):
Yeah.

Nik (50:04):
And he completely fucking flipped my world upside down in
that one conversation.
But I immediately, I startedpracticing it.
And it was, it was purely aboutlike, Hey, how can I help?
What are you trying toaccomplish?
How can I serve you?
How can I benefit you

JIA (50:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Nik (50:17):
take it from me?
Go do that for five years.
Go do that for seven years andwatch the universe deliver
everything you've ever wantedback to

JIA (50:27):
Yeah.

Nik (50:27):
always gonna come back to you, maybe from that person that
you help out directly, but youjust become that kind of person,
which means you just startattracting that kind of energy
back into your life.
And maybe it sounds like somewoo woo shit, but like, just go
and fucking try it

JIA (50:42):
Yeah.
No, a

Nik (50:43):
see

JIA (50:43):
hundred percent.
Exactly.
Exactly.
A hundred percent.
Thank you for sharing that.
It's funny that you were workingat Capital Records during that
time.
I was probably, uh, we probablycrossed paths'cause I was
hanging out in a Hollywood andAvalon area so much

Nik (50:55):
Yeah,

JIA (50:56):
those years.
But, um, but yeah, dude.

Nik (50:58):
yeah.
I I got my

JIA (50:59):
yeah,

Nik (51:00):
Avalon, like in the electronics scene really, uh, on
the Friday night parties, uh,for control with

JIA (51:05):
dude.

Nik (51:06):
Jaso.
Those are the guys that like gotme into the

JIA (51:08):
Dude, I think, I think we connected,

Nik (51:11):
should check out

JIA (51:12):
we, we definitely did connect because we were the ones
who did the Friday Bardot frenzyafter hours upstairs every
Friday night.
It was us.
Holy shit.
That was you guys, the control.

Nik (51:21):
fucked up at two in the morning after getting free
drinks at control and be

JIA (51:24):
go.

Nik (51:25):
let's keep it going.
Let's go upstairs.

JIA (51:28):
Yeah.
And then, yeah, I mean, if youever saw a bunch of Asian DJs
playing there, man, it's, it wasme and the collect,

Nik (51:33):
Yeah,

JIA (51:35):
but, but it's amazing to see how then, like, we didn't
connect them, but now we'reconnecting here through this
whole different, uh, narrativethat we're trying to push.
So look, to give everyone that'swatching an example in terms of
the value that you provide, Imean, it's a voice, it's a
platform.
It's, it's to help us promotewhatever it is that we're trying
to promote.
And obviously.
Share many, many insights,right?

(51:56):
Because every podcast, everyepisode, you know, people will
walk away with something thatthey can take action on.
And that's one thing, you knowat Artist Map is what I really
emphasize.
Don't just be a knower.
Don't just like, yeah, I know, Iknow.
Now I know it's, I know yougotta go do it.
Don't watch all the courses.
Watch the courses that matter,and you have to go apply.

(52:17):
So.
I feel like you and I couldprobably chat for even longer.
I do the, our hours up almostthan that.

Nik (52:24):
Well, as far as action items, you said you have that
that first part of your courseis free, you said, right?

JIA (52:29):
Yes, it is.

Nik (52:31):
start the, the, the first part of artist Map.
I'll put

JIA (52:34):
Yes.

Nik (52:35):
a link for it in the show notes for you guys to go and
check out.
But if any of this is resonatingwith you, if you want to dive
further into some of thismindset stuff that we've been
talking about, GIA is thefucking man and you guys should
totally go check his stuff out.

JIA (52:47):
Yeah, well in reverse, uh, you're the man as well, Nick,
and I've always enjoyed yourcontent and I, you know, I, I
reached out to you even beforeMichael connected us even to,
just to quickly, I, yeah, Ithink I just quickly reached out
like, Hey, Nick.
Awesome content.
I love what you're doing.

Nik (53:01):
It was only a matter of time.
Bro, I'm glad that

JIA (53:03):
Yeah.

Nik (53:04):
and thanks so much for taking the time to hop