December 23, 2023 • 34 mins
Suriname, Djon djon, Soup Jou Mou and more….what do these all have in common? The Caribbean!
In this episode, host Paula Mohammed chats with Chef Mireille, a New York City based food and travel blogger with a diverse family background that spans the globe from India to Haiti.
Mireille shares her unique perspective on international cuisine as she encourages listeners to traverse the cross-cultural landscape with her traditional recipes. She gives a deeper insight into the diversity of Caribbean cuisine and culture, focusing on the uniqueness of each region based on historical colonization. Mireille also elaborates on the deeply-rooted tradition of 'Jou Mou', a Haitian New Year's Day pumpkin soup, and its significance. Throughout the conversation, Mireille emphasizes the beauty of culinary diversity and the power of food to break down biases and foster understanding among different cultures.
These are just a few of the topics we cover in my chat with Mireille:
- Mireille's Unique Family Background
- Exploring the Diversity of the Caribbean
- Traveling to the Caribbean: Tips and Recommendations
- The Significance of Jou Mou in Haitian Culture
- The Influence of Mireille's Diverse Background on Her Career
- Mireille's Blog and Her Mission
HELPFUL LINKS
- Get my free guide: Paula's Travel Planning Tool
- Check out Chef Mireille’s Jou Mou recipe
- Visit Chef Mireille’s website for more recipes from around the globe: GlobalKitchenTravels.com
- Follow Chef Mireille on Instagram (@ChefMireille) and TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@chefmireille)
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SAY HELLO
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi, I'm Paula Mohamed, andwelcome to In My Kitchen with
Paula.
This podcast is a gatheringplace for culinary adventures
who love to travel.
Every week, we'll come togetherwith chefs, cookbook authors,
talented home cooks, andeveryone in between to talk
about their story and theirunique dish.
Using food as the vehicle, we'lltake a ride into the ins and
(00:21):
outs of their culture andcountry.
Come on, let's get this partystarted.
In this episode, I get to chatwith Chef Mireille from New York
city.
Mireille is a food and travelblogger with a diverse family
background that spans the globefrom India to Haiti.
Mireille shares her uniqueperspective on international
(00:41):
cuisine.
As she encourages listeners totraverse the cross-cultural
landscape with her traditionalrecipes.
She gives a deeper insight intothe diversity of Caribbean
cuisine and culture, focusing onthe uniqueness of each region
based on historicalcolonization.
Mireille also elaborates in thisconversation on the deeply
rooted tradition of soup SoupJou Mou a Haitian new year's
(01:04):
day, pumpkin soup and itssignificance.
Throughout the conversation.
Mireille emphasizes the beautyof culinary diversity and the
power of food to break downbiases and foster understanding
among different cultures.
I know some of my listeners aregoing on Caribbean cruises.
You need to listen to thisepisode.
Let's get right to it.
Paula (01:26):
Hey, Mireille.
It's so great to have you on theshow.
I'm so glad you're here.
Thank you.
I'm so excited to be here andcan't wait for our conversation.
To get things going, I'm goingto give a brief bio, about you
to my listeners.
Chef Mireille is a New York Citybased digital food and travel
creator, a classically trainedchef.
(01:48):
However, Mireille brings aglobal influence to her cooking.
Mireille comes from one of themost diverse families on the
planet.
Quote from Mireille directly.
I'm going to ask more aboutthat.
And it crosses the globe fromIndia to Haiti.
She uses her unique insightworking in New York City
restaurants, incorporating herfamily background and traveling
(02:11):
the world to help you traversethe cross cultural landscape
with over 1, 000 traditionalrecipes from around the world on
her website.
Recipes Without Borders.
So you can bring the world toyour dinner table from your own
kitchen.
We have so much in common.
I love it.
So, diving right in.
(02:31):
You got to tell us about yourfamily background, Mireille
MIreille (02:35):
okay, so my family background, you know, it's
really interesting.
A lot of people when they thinkof the Caribbean, they mostly
think of the larger isles.
They think of Jamaica, Trinidad,you know, people don't realize
how many Caribbean islands thereactually are.
And when your family comes fromreally small islands, which are
(02:56):
also really diverse, or I shouldreally say small countries,
because there are Caribbeancountries that are not
necessarily islands.
You know, your family just tendsto intermarry into all of those
cultures.
So that's what I mean.
Like my grandfather is fromSuriname.
Yes, Suriname is just likeDiana.
They are geographically in SouthAmerica, but they are culturally
(03:18):
and economically Caribbean.
And so Suriname is reallydiverse.
We have large percentages ofIndian, Indonesian, Chinese,
African descended people, whichall.
coexist very peacefully in oursmall little country.
And my, my, um, grandfatheractually had in or about 20
(03:41):
children.
My great grandfather had 12.
And when you're on this smallIsland, you just intermarry into
all the cultures.
So that's how.
I have Indian cousins.
I have Indonesian cousins.
I have Chinese cousins.
I have Jewish cousins, not tomention that on my father's
side, I'm Haitian.
So then I've got the wholeHaitian side too.
(04:02):
So that's where I mean, like, myfamily encompasses all of that.
Paula (04:06):
I can't imagine what celebratory meals are like in
your family, like weddings orholiday meals.
It must be fun and delicious andchaotic.
I would imagine a little bit.
MIreille (04:18):
Um, yeah, I mean, well, it kind of just depends
which side of the family I am,you know?
Like one time I was in theNetherlands, like many colonized
countries, um, people, I mean,people from the islands who,
that were colonized, they oftenmigrate over time for education
or work to, the country thatoriginally colonized them.
(04:39):
So half of my family also nowlives in the Netherlands,
because we come from Dutchcolonized countries, like my
mother's from Aruba and mygrandfather's from Suriname.
And so one year I was there atright when they were celebrating
Ramadan.
Because that's the Indonesianpart of my family, so they're
Muslim, and so I celebrateRamadan with them.
(05:00):
Then I'm with my Jewish cousinsand I'm celebrating Rosh
Hashanah with them, you know?
So it really just depends whatpart of the family I'm visiting.
The food is totally different.
Paula (05:12):
Can you tell me a little bit more what it was like
growing up in such a culturallydiverse household?
And what I'm getting at is I'mmaking an assumption that this
may have influenced what you'redoing today and how you became a
chef.
Is that, would that be
MIreille (05:27):
Absolutely, absolutely.
It's so funny, especially whenyou enter the blogging world.,
and all these marketing gurustell you, you have to be so
niche specific and niche down.
And it's something I truly couldnever do.
Because I can't pick one countryto focus on.
I really can't.
People think sometimes that thiswas just a misstep or something
(05:50):
that was targeted in mymarketing or strategic planning.
And it truly wasn't, like manypeople.
It's different nowadays, butwhen I started blogging a long
time ago, most people just fellinto it, and I was at the
beginning when it was just kindof transitioning from something
people did for fun to an actualviable business sense.
(06:12):
It wasn't strategic.
It's my family.
That's how I grew up.
I grew up one day eating Indianfood, one day eating Haitian
food, one day, eatingTrinidadian food.
Because, you know, even justgrowing up in New York, um, not
only is it the countries that Irepresent, I'm also living.
in one of the most diversecities in the world.
(06:34):
So growing up, my friend, a lotjust because of the neighborhood
that I live, most of my friendswere South American and Central
American.
So I, so like those foods are asmuch home to me or comfort food
as my own culture, because Igrew up at my, going to my
friend's house, eating Colombianfood and Ecuadorian food and
Peruvian food and Dominicanfood.
(06:56):
So, All of these different,cultures, I just always had an
interest in, you know, and so tolimit myself to just the ones
that make up my family, like,I'm sorry, maybe it's because
I'm a Gemini, that would just beso boring after.
I can't, you know, like, one ofthe things, like, as a chef and
(07:16):
doing what I do, What's thequestion I detest the most and
you're going to laugh?
What's your favorite meal orwhat's your favorite dish?
I hate that question because ittruly just depends what mood I'm
in.
I may be in the mood for Haitianfood.
I may be in the mood forIndonesian food.
I don't have one.
I don't have a favorite dish toeat and I don't have a favorite
(07:37):
dish to cook.
It's really what mood and isMireille in today?
Paula (07:42):
Mireille, I'm sitting here with a big smile on my
face, the listeners can't hearit, but I feel like I've met my
soul sister because I haven'tmet anyone before, who, um,
started a business based on the,diversity of their family
backgrounds.
I thought mine was prettydivorced, or sorry, not
divorced.
I am divorced, but not, but Ithought my family background was
(08:02):
quite diverse, but yours is, sointeresting.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about what you're doing now
and about your blog and website?
I think it's, uh, I think it'sreally interesting and also a
great resource for everybody.
MIreille (08:17):
Sure.
So, you know.
Um, I started out doing my blog,International Foods.
Well, I started doing it justwhen, like I said, when I
started blogging, doing whateverthe hell I felt like making.
Okay, then when I startedgetting more strategic into
marketing and planning, etc,then it went to international
recipes and that's what I'vedone, you know, throughout the
(08:40):
years with me blogging I've beenin many groups where we do
events together and things ofthat nature I have always found
the history just as important asthe food and I think It's gotten
even so much Just the kind ofvitriolic, sociopolitical stuff
(09:00):
that happens when people are notexposed to different cultures,
different religions, differentcolors, all of that.
And I think, who won't?
will refuse a plate of deliciousfood.
And maybe through develop,through this recipe that I do,
(09:21):
and when I present it on myblog, I kind of give you
background information about thecountry and the culture and the
people.
And maybe they won't seem sostrange to you.
Maybe they won't seem sodifferent to you.
And maybe, you'll say, okay, allthat the media has been feeding
me about this race of peoplemaybe isn't 100 percent true.
(09:41):
So that's one of the mainreasons I do that is to
hopefully try to break down somebiases that people have when
they, I've been lucky, I've beenexposed to so many cultures,
different religions, everyreligion is in my family.
We've got Christians, we've gotHindus, we've got Muslims, we've
got Jewish people.
Okay?
(10:02):
And we all coexist and we'reable to respect and we can
celebrate each other's religiousholidays without judgment.
I only wish the world could dothat.
And I think the next generationis getting better.
And hopefully if we startteaching these children from
young, and I hope that myrecipes, people cook it with
(10:22):
their families, like I havecomments.
My blog of people who use it intheir homeschooling groups,
teach their kids about othercultures.
And those are the messages thatbring me so much joy.
And I'm like, this is why I dowhat I do.
Paula (10:38):
I wish more people could experience.
Eating with people from othercultures, cooking dishes from
other cultures, and just, um,yeah, eating together, learning
together, pretty much breakingbread together, because I agree
with you 100%.
There's something magical thathappens when you are cooking,
your hands are busy, people aremore comfortable talking, asking
(11:02):
questions, not worried aboutasking the wrong question, those
sort of things.
I really want to know moreabout, the diversity of the
Caribbean, the culture, thecuisine.
this could be multiple podcastsand I know many of my listeners
have traveled to the Caribbeanor plan to go to the Caribbean,
and I think this is just anamazing opportunity for them to
(11:22):
learn.
a little bit more than whatGoogle's going to tell them.
So, can you tell me a little bitmore about this passion of yours
about sharing the diversity ofthe Caribbean?
MIreille (11:32):
Okay.
So first of all, by the way, Iam going to podcast on just this
topic with a co host.
She's from Trinidad.
We are just getting started.
Our tentative launch date is forthe beginning of January.
So again, follow me and youknow, you'll get all that
information.
But just generally speaking theCaribbean or the Caribbean or
(11:55):
the West Indies, they're allsynonymous, is not a monolith.
The Caribbean should be dividedinto four groups of islands.
The ones that were colonized bythe Dutch, the ones that were
colonized by the French, theones that were colonized by the
British, and the ones that werecolonized by the Spanish.
You know, they each have, speakdifferent languages, eat
(12:18):
different foods, um, manycultural aspects are different,
you know.
Yes, as Caribbean people, wedefinitely have a unity and we
will fight for each other.
We've seen justice happening toeach other.
There is a sense of communityamong all Caribbean people,
(12:38):
although we do have ourinfighting against certain
islands, and there's lots ofhistorical context for that.
However, generally speaking, inmodern times, you know, we are a
community, but at the same time,we love our individuality, we
love our uniqueness, and we wantpeople to not treat us as One
(13:01):
thing, because we're not onething, I start speaking
Papiamento or something, someonefrom Jamaica is going to look at
me like I'm speaking Chinese,they're not going to understand
a word I'm saying.
I've taught after schoolprograms.
And I swear, the head of thisprogram is based on Chicago, and
I think they would just Googleand look at the first recipe.
(13:21):
And so, there was this book thatwe were supposed to follow.
So like, every week, they pick adifferent country, we teach the
kids about the country, and wecook a meal from that country.
And when I saw under Haiti, Theyhad jerkfish.
I was like, are you freakingkidding me?
No one is in Haiti is makingjerkfish.
Okay.
Okay.
(13:42):
Yes.
Jerk is very popular throughoutthe Caribbean, but that comes
from Jamaica.
The cuisine of Haiti is reallyunique where you can see the
commonality between, like Isaid, a lot of the British
colonized islands, the Spanish,the Dutch, the French, Haiti.
I don't know.
I think, um, And maybe it'sbecause I'm half Haitian, maybe
(14:03):
it's because I'm biased, buteven when you compare it to
other islands like Martinique,Guadeloupe, Dominica.
Dominica, even though they weretechnically colonized from the,
um, got their independence fromthe British, they played piggy
bank between the French and theBritish for a long time.
So they have a lot of Frenchinfluence on their island as
well.
And Haiti just is It's uniquecuisine, a unique culture, I'm
(14:27):
not saying no one is makingjerkfish in Haiti, but that is
not a dish to introduce to youngchildren as a dish that's
representative of Haiti.
Paula (14:36):
Before you carry on about the diversity of the Caribbean,
we have a Facebook group throughIn My Kitchen and somebody asked
me to ask you, and we're goingto talk about the Joumou dish
later on, so don't name thatone, but they wanted me to ask
you, what is the one Haitiandish they should try?
MIreille (14:55):
One Haitian dish you should try.
Oh my gosh.
Mm.
Mm, mm, mm.
Okay, um, for me, are they goingto Haiti or they want to make it
themselves?
Because some dishes are reallygreat, but I wouldn't recommend
like, a novice trying to make itthemselves at home.
Paula (15:13):
Not trying to make it themselves, but just the one
dish they should try if theyever got the, I don't think
anyone's going to be travelingthere right now,
MIreille (15:19):
Or going to a restaurant.
Um, oh my gosh, Haitian food hasbecome so popular, and it's at
least here in the U.
S.
is totally trending.
I'm on TikTok all the time, I'mseeing people trying Haitian
food for the first time at somerestaurant, and this is
something that maybe a lot ofpeople are not ordering, but for
me, I love it.
(15:40):
And it's a, it's called la, wecall it Lai, and it's basically
L-A-M-B-I.
And it's stewed.
It's stewed conch
Paula (15:50):
Oh, okay.
MIreille (15:51):
It's stewed with like onions and peppers and of course
our scotch bonnet, pepper andthyme and parsley and just all
of these aromatic.
And from the time I was a child,it's always been the, you know,
because it's conch, it's themost expensive item on the menu,
usually.
So, but every birthday, like,that was the one thing my mom
(16:13):
would make.
And my mom's not Haitian, butshe learned how to cook Haitian
food from my dad's sisters,where even, like, For family
parties, all the Haitian peoplewould ask for my mom's lambi
because she made like the best.
That to me, it's just because,um, they cook it long and slow
and it's just so tender.
(16:34):
It just melts in your mouth.
Paula (16:36):
I'm going to seek that out Your grandfather was from
Suriname.
Is that correct?
MIreille (16:42):
Yes, my maternal grandfather.
Paula (16:43):
And your mother was from?
Suriname as well then?
Did she grow up there?
No, I got
MIreille (16:49):
my mother.
Okay, so you see, this is howcome I have such a unique
perspective of having insightinto every part of the
Caribbean.
So my mother was born in Aruba,but and she lived in Aruba until
she was around nine years old.
Then she lived in Barbados untilshe was about 16.
And then she lived in Curaçao.
(17:11):
And since she was about 20, andthen she, um, came to the United
States.
Paula (17:17):
Okay.
Interesting.
Okay.
So going back to the diversityof the different regions, the
four regions in the Caribbean,when people do a Caribbean
cruise or they say, I'm going tothe Caribbean.
Do you want to say to them, bemore specific?
Like, where are you going?
Like, it must, it must get, it
MIreille (17:38):
Okay,
Paula (17:38):
get frustrating for you.
MIreille (17:41):
much as I'm all for promoting the diversity of the
Caribbean, my life would be veryexhausting if I tried to, like,
like, hone in on that, on everyaspect of interactions I have
with people.
So no, if they came from acruise, I just say, oh, what
island did you visit?
You know?
Paula (18:02):
For people who are planning to go traveling there,
I think this is a great chanceto get some insight from you.
What kind of trip would yousuggest we do to really
experience the different cultureand cuisines of the regions?
MIreille (18:18):
tHat's so hard.
And the reason it's hard isbecause there is so much
diversity, and it depends whereyou, what you're looking for.
Are you looking for nightlife?
Are you looking for seclusion?
Are you looking for just, natureand a place where you could,
kind of de stress?
Are you looking for adventure?
That's what's so special aboutthe Caribbean.
(18:39):
It has all of that.
You know, it has everything andit just depends what you're
looking for.
But what I would say is to do alittle research and just number
one, not look at the islandsthat everybody goes to.
Because there are so manybeautiful islands that people
overlook because they've neverheard of it or they don't know
(19:00):
what it's And then the otherthing is, a lot of these, um,
government reports that come outand say, Oh, don't go here.
It's dangerous.
Don't go here.
There's a lot of bias in thosethings.
So I would also say, don't.
Use your research.
I said, social media has somebad things, but it has some good
(19:21):
things, too.
And one of the good things isyou can go to social media, see
people who've been thererecently, see what they say, see
what their experiences are.
You know, whether you're onYouTube or TikTok or Instagram,
wherever you go for your socialmedia fix, you know, those are
people who've been there realand many of them are really
(19:42):
nice.
If you pose a question directlyor even DM them, they will
answer you.
Because a lot of people willsay, don't go here because it's
dangerous or whatever.
And then I see people who'vebeen there like, or even myself,
I'm like, what are they talkingabout?
You know?
So I would say if you're goingto go, number one, definitely do
(20:03):
some research, but take thosegovernment warnings with a grain
of salt I find there's just somuch beauty in the islands
that's not Jamaica and Trinidadand St.
Lucia that everyone goes to.
Paula (20:17):
So if I wanted to go and immerse myself and go for 10
days and feel like I was livingwith locals, had my, my favorite
coffee shop to go to, likefeeling like I was living day to
day life like a local.
MIreille (20:36):
It also depends where you stay.
To me, in order to have thatexperience, you need to stay at
a local cottage or a bed andbreakfast, a small hotel in
town, and that's where you'll beable to get those kind of, um,
experiences.
Like my last trip to theCaribbean, I had gone to
Antigua, and I rented a guesthouse that was like in the
(21:00):
mountains, you know?
So, it was so great.
I went to town on market day,and I picked all my vegetables,
and I went soup shopping, cookedall my food, and I would, on the
porch every day, I would havebreakfast with a few birds that
would, like, come and try to eatmy breakfast with me, and them
just chirping away with thebeach in front of my kitchen.
(21:22):
view and to me that wasperfection.
Other people might call thatboring because there's no night
life.
There's no, you know, it's asmall Caribbean island.
To me that was perfection.
Paula (21:34):
That's, I agree.
And I can tell you're not goingto play favourites and name one
specific place, so I'm going tomove on from that.
But talking about
MIreille (21:44):
Okay, I'll
Paula (21:44):
No, I get it.
I get
MIreille (21:45):
I'll tell you one thing.
One island, and maybe I'm alittle biased, but I would have
to say probably one of myfavorite is Dominica.
Yes, my grandmother's fromthere, but Dominica is really
unique.
First of all, it's called thenature island of the Caribbean
for a reason.
It's been largely untouched.
It has.
One of the, I think there's onlythree in the world.
(22:06):
It has one of three boilinglakes in the world.
It's a volcanic, volcanicisland.
There's an emerald pool,literally under the waterfall.
It's this pool you can swim inwhere the, where the water is
dark green if you love nature.
Not to mention the kalinago,they have one of the la they
have the largest intactindigenous population in the
(22:28):
Caribbean that live on protectedpart of the island.
Still live very communally.
So it's just a unique island.
Yes.
I am partial to it'cause mygrandmother's from there.
But if I would say one place youshould visit that you're not
gonna get those experiences onother islands is Dominica
Paula (22:46):
I really appreciate that.
Thank you.
going back to what you saidabout the travel advisories.
So, how about Haiti?
MIreille (22:53):
This is what I will say about Haiti.
Haiti is, um.
There's a lot of corruptionthere, as there are in many
places, but there's also a lotof beauty and a lot of safe
places to go in Haiti.
Port au Prince is dangerous, I'mnot going to lie, but you go to
(23:14):
Cap Haitien, you go to a lot ofthe places out, once you're
outside of Port au Prince, it'salmost like you're in a
different country.
That doesn't even mean youstroll around without being
aware of your surroundings andwhere you are.
There is a woman.
I can't remember her.
(23:34):
Dr.
Pertrude something.
I can't remember it off the topof my head.
I will get it to you and youcould put it in the show notes.
She is a great woman to followon Instagram and on TikTok.
I just can't remember her lastname right now.
And she was even on some newsshow the other day because she
(23:54):
has done a lot in helping.
She's Haitian, but likeBasically brought up in America,
so educated in America and allof that.
And she's, has this not forprofit where she's building
schools in Haiti.
And she just shows, first ofall, she teaches you a lot of
history in her videos.
And she also just shows thebeauty of Haiti, you know.
(24:18):
And shows, you know, that it'snot as dangerous as the media
portrays.
Port au Prince is, but onceyou're out of Port au Prince,
out of the capital, it's a, youknow, and you don't really have
to set foot in Port au Prince.
You take a connecting flight,Port au Prince, Cap Haitien, or
wherever you want to go, andthere's still so much you can
(24:39):
see and enjoy in Haiti, and beas safe as you can be, you know,
in many other places.
Paula (24:46):
And that's perfect transition for you to share with
us the recipe that you'resharing with my listeners,
today.
Tell me about that dish, theHaitian dish.
MIreille (24:57):
Joumou is, is, is, I'm sorry.
Like, it's almost like beyondwords.
It is everything.
You know, and when I was achild, I just thought this was
just, being half Haitian, I'mnot, I would say, as ingrained
maybe in the culture as manyother people, only because I
(25:19):
have these cultural influencescoming from me from so many
directions.
So I know a little of this partof my culture.
I know a little bit of this partof my culture.
I know a little bit.
I'm not as maybe ingrained asother people are.
But Joumou is one of the thingswe had every single year.
And when my mom made Joumou, Oh,and I would eat this thing for
(25:43):
like a week for like breakfast,lunch, and dinner, I just loved
it.
As I got older.
And I learned about the historyand what it represents.
To me, it's even more special.
Joumou is basically a pumpkinsoup, but it's not like any
Western pumpkin soup you haveever had in your life.
It, there's pumpkin, but thenthere's meat.
(26:05):
Uh, it can be made with avariety of meat.
You can use beef.
Goat meat, whatever kind of meatyou'd like really.
It has pasta in it.
It usually has both vermicelliand macro and like penne or
macaroni or something.
And then it will also havevegetables.
There's carrots and there'sturnip, different vegetables in
(26:28):
it.
So it is an all.
Day fair to make Joumou becauseof the way we cook, we don't
just soft taste the meat and addit.
No, the meat is seasoned and alot of times it's seasoned the
night before and marinated, andthen we basically boil the meat
with.
There's always lots of onionsand peppers and Scotch bonnet
(26:50):
and clove and thyme and parsley.
Then after that it's added tothe soup that's, that's been
made Joumou is a symbol.
It's a symbol of freedom ofindependence.
Um, cause January 1st is Haiti'sindependence day.
So people make Joumou everysingle independence day.
(27:10):
And the story goes that, whenthe people were still enslaved,
even though they were the onesmaking the soup, they were not
allowed to eat it.
It was thought to be toorefined, um, for them to
appreciate it.
So when Haiti finally got theirindependence, then General
Dessalines said, everyone gohome and make Joumou.
(27:32):
And now that's part of thehistory of what Haitian people
make every single New Year'sDay.
Paula (27:39):
Tell me about that New Year's Day, uh, celebration,
Independence Day.
What would that look liketypically for a Haitian family
or your family?
MIreille (27:49):
Well, like I said, my family's not typical, so,
Paula (27:52):
Okay.
MIreille (27:53):
but for most, but for most Haitian people, you know,
yeah, you know, a lot of timesit's all of the relatives coming
together at someone's house tomake, I mean, no one makes.
Like a sauce can of Joumou.
People are making like, if yousee, I think it says the recipe
on my website.
I think it feeds like 12 peopleI put for the number of
(28:17):
servings.
Like we, I don't know how tomake that in small servings
because no one is making alittle pot of Joumou for just
like, For, you know, theirfamily.
Because someone's gonna drop by.
Someone's gonna be coming by.
So you always make enough forextra.
And then when they go home, yousend them home with leftovers,
(28:38):
etc.
And then you're eating that fora few days, it tastes better.
Like any recipe, like all thingslike soups and stews, you know,
the more it, it has time todevelop, the better it tastes.
Like day three is when soupJoumou is for me, that is, then
there's nothing to do.
Day one, yeah, it's good.
(28:59):
Day two, it's gotten a littlebit better, but day three, oh my
God, that's the best soupJoumou.
Paula (29:05):
And would you have it during the day or at night?
Like, is it a big lunch meal orin the evening?
MIreille (29:11):
When soup Joumou is there, I will have it for
breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
I truly don't care.
Paula (29:15):
So it just sits on the stove pot and you just go and,
um,
MIreille (29:19):
eat Joumou, till it's finished.
Paula (29:24):
I'm getting the sense from both sides of your family
that hospitality plays a bigrole in, um, both cultures.
Is that fair to say?
MIreille (29:32):
Caribbean cultures in general.
I think Caribbean people, weshare food.
We, no one ever makes enoughfood just for themselves.
It's just part of our cultureand community.
We just cook big vats of food,and if there's leftovers, we
(29:52):
send you home with leftovers.
It's so funny where likeAmerican, often American
parties, they think it's okay tohave a party and just have like,
Chips and soda and stuff likethat.
No, no, no, no.
If you're Caribbean and you'rethrowing a party, people are
expecting rice and peas andcurry chicken and macaroni pie
(30:14):
and fried plantain andeverything.
As people do not go to partiesfor, they expect food.
They don't eat when they'releaving their house because they
expect to find food there.
And if you did not serve themfood, everyone will be talking
about you.
Paula (30:32):
the ingredients in, Dominican and Haitian food, are
there ones that you just can'tfind where you are?
Would there be a couple ofingredients or spices that if
you went back you'd want to tryand bring home with you?
MIreille (30:44):
The only thing I would suggest if you went to Haiti to
bring back is Djon Djon.
So, Djon DJon, it's spelled D JO N, next word, D J O N, is a
regional dried mushroom thatcomes from a particular region
of Haiti.
Anyone who I've ever met and Itell them I'm half Haitian, the
(31:06):
first thing they say is, do youknow how to make the black rice?
And that's what you need to makeis basically you soak or you
boil the dried mushroom and thenyou kind of like put it in the
blender with whatever and itcreates this black liquid and
then you cook the rice.
in the black liquid.
(31:26):
And of course, aromatics areadded.
You know, onions, peppers,garlic, and then it's used lima
beans is usually added.
And shrimp, sometimes both driedshrimp as well as fresh shrimp.
And it's called Jean Jean.
And, um, I can get it here.
It's actually because there's alot of Haitian people here in
(31:47):
New York, especially inBrooklyn, where I live, I can
easily get it by Haitianvendors.
But if you're not In a placewhere there's a Haitian
community, definitely bring backyour djon djon.
Paula (31:59):
So I have to ask you, Mireille, what do you think?
Typically cook for yourhousehold yourself.
I'm very curious.
I'm not asking you what yourfavorite dish is.
I'm very carefully not askingthat.
MIreille (32:14):
Oh my gosh, it's so just depends, I mean, like,
okay, right now I'll be quitehonest, I've been staying with
my mom because she had somesurgery.
So I've been helping her and Ijust cook.
And so I've actually beencooking more here than I do.
For myself, you know, the otherday I made some salt fish.
So salt fish is like.
Dried salted cod.
(32:35):
And so we'll cook, we'll, afterit's been desalinated, we cook
it with, like, onions andpeppers tomato and, hot pepper
and all that.
I made some salt fish and we, wejust had it with the ducanat.
Believe it or not, even thoughthat's something that's sweet,
They mix the sweet and thesalty.
(32:55):
We combine sweet with savory alot in our foods for us.
So our, there is a bit ofsweetness in our stew chicken.
Our stew chicken starts off withbrowning.
It's something called browning,which basically is you cook
sugar until it gets kind ofsmoky and brown.
And that's what we cook ourchicken in.
So there's a lot of sweetness.
(33:17):
even in our savory foods.
So, it just depends.
I made salt fish the other day.
I made some pumpkin soup theother day.
It had like, some smoked meat init, and it had some, split peas
in it, and then some vegetablesand stuff.
We don't eat like, just broth,like puree.
Like, our soups need to havethings in them, okay?
(33:41):
Needs to have potatoes, carrots,plantain, whatever.
Paula (33:45):
Mireille, is there a cookbook coming in the near
future, somewhere down the road?
Because I
MIreille (33:49):
You know, I, I have been trying to write a cookbook
probably for about a decade.
I'm always so busy, so manythings, so somewhere along the
line, it's going to go.
Paula (34:06):
Before I forget, how can people learn more about what
you've been sharing on thepodcast today?
Tell us again your website andI'll put it in the show notes
and how else people can followyou.
MIreille (34:18):
My website is GlobalKitchenTravels.
com and you'll find a lot of therecipes that I've referenced
today, plus more recipes fromaround the world.
You can definitely follow me onsocial media.
spice series on a room inclubhouse.
So if anyone is on clubhouse,it's in the food is religion
(34:39):
club.
So all you have to look for isat Chef Mireille.
I use the same, name on all ofmy social media.
Paula (34:45):
Great, I'll put that in the show notes.
I can't say enough how much I'velearned and enjoyed chatting you
today.
I just, I mean, we've onlytouched the surface.
I really, really hope that youset a date and get that podcast
up and
MIreille (34:58):
it is.
We've already like recorded thefirst episode.
It's just, as you know, whenstarting a podcast, there's a
lot of.
Stuff to do.
Paula (35:08):
there is, I, all I can say is practice the practice of
imperfection.
Just do it.
Anyway, thanks so much,Mireille.
I really enjoyed having you onthe show.
MIreille (35:20):
Likewise, it has been so much fun and I've loved the
conversation.
Hi, I'm Paula Mohamed, andwelcome to In My Kitchen with
Paula.
This podcast is a gatheringplace for culinary adventures
who love to travel.
Every week, we'll come togetherwith chefs, cookbook authors,
talented home cooks, andeveryone in between to talk
about their story and theirunique dish.
Using food as the vehicle, we'lltake a ride into the ins and
(00:21):
outs of their culture andcountry.
Come on, let's get this partystarted.
In this episode, I get to chatwith Chef Mireille from New York
city.
Mireille is a food and travelblogger with a diverse family
background that spans the globefrom India to Haiti.
Mireille shares her uniqueperspective on international
(00:41):
cuisine.
As she encourages listeners totraverse the cross-cultural
landscape with her traditionalrecipes.
She gives a deeper insight intothe diversity of Caribbean
cuisine and culture, focusing onthe uniqueness of each region
based on historicalcolonization.
Mireille also elaborates in thisconversation on the deeply
rooted tradition of soup SoupJou Mou a Haitian new year's
(01:04):
day, pumpkin soup and itssignificance.
Throughout the conversation.
Mireille emphasizes the beautyof culinary diversity and the
power of food to break downbiases and foster understanding
among different cultures.
I know some of my listeners aregoing on Caribbean cruises.
You need to listen to thisepisode.
Let's get right to it.
Paula (01:26):
Hey, Mireille.
It's so great to have you on theshow.
I'm so glad you're here.
Thank you.
I'm so excited to be here andcan't wait for our conversation.
To get things going, I'm goingto give a brief bio, about you
to my listeners.
Chef Mireille is a New York Citybased digital food and travel
creator, a classically trainedchef.
(01:48):
However, Mireille brings aglobal influence to her cooking.
Mireille comes from one of themost diverse families on the
planet.
Quote from Mireille directly.
I'm going to ask more aboutthat.
And it crosses the globe fromIndia to Haiti.
She uses her unique insightworking in New York City
restaurants, incorporating herfamily background and traveling
(02:11):
the world to help you traversethe cross cultural landscape
with over 1, 000 traditionalrecipes from around the world on
her website.
Recipes Without Borders.
So you can bring the world toyour dinner table from your own
kitchen.
We have so much in common.
I love it.
So, diving right in.
(02:31):
You got to tell us about yourfamily background, Mireille
MIreille (02:35):
okay, so my family background, you know, it's
really interesting.
A lot of people when they thinkof the Caribbean, they mostly
think of the larger isles.
They think of Jamaica, Trinidad,you know, people don't realize
how many Caribbean islands thereactually are.
And when your family comes fromreally small islands, which are
(02:56):
also really diverse, or I shouldreally say small countries,
because there are Caribbeancountries that are not
necessarily islands.
You know, your family just tendsto intermarry into all of those
cultures.
So that's what I mean.
Like my grandfather is fromSuriname.
Yes, Suriname is just likeDiana.
They are geographically in SouthAmerica, but they are culturally
(03:18):
and economically Caribbean.
And so Suriname is reallydiverse.
We have large percentages ofIndian, Indonesian, Chinese,
African descended people, whichall.
coexist very peacefully in oursmall little country.
And my, my, um, grandfatheractually had in or about 20
(03:41):
children.
My great grandfather had 12.
And when you're on this smallIsland, you just intermarry into
all the cultures.
So that's how.
I have Indian cousins.
I have Indonesian cousins.
I have Chinese cousins.
I have Jewish cousins, not tomention that on my father's
side, I'm Haitian.
So then I've got the wholeHaitian side too.
(04:02):
So that's where I mean, like, myfamily encompasses all of that.
Paula (04:06):
I can't imagine what celebratory meals are like in
your family, like weddings orholiday meals.
It must be fun and delicious andchaotic.
I would imagine a little bit.
MIreille (04:18):
Um, yeah, I mean, well, it kind of just depends
which side of the family I am,you know?
Like one time I was in theNetherlands, like many colonized
countries, um, people, I mean,people from the islands who,
that were colonized, they oftenmigrate over time for education
or work to, the country thatoriginally colonized them.
(04:39):
So half of my family also nowlives in the Netherlands,
because we come from Dutchcolonized countries, like my
mother's from Aruba and mygrandfather's from Suriname.
And so one year I was there atright when they were celebrating
Ramadan.
Because that's the Indonesianpart of my family, so they're
Muslim, and so I celebrateRamadan with them.
(05:00):
Then I'm with my Jewish cousinsand I'm celebrating Rosh
Hashanah with them, you know?
So it really just depends whatpart of the family I'm visiting.
The food is totally different.
Paula (05:12):
Can you tell me a little bit more what it was like
growing up in such a culturallydiverse household?
And what I'm getting at is I'mmaking an assumption that this
may have influenced what you'redoing today and how you became a
chef.
Is that, would that be
MIreille (05:27):
Absolutely, absolutely.
It's so funny, especially whenyou enter the blogging world.,
and all these marketing gurustell you, you have to be so
niche specific and niche down.
And it's something I truly couldnever do.
Because I can't pick one countryto focus on.
I really can't.
People think sometimes that thiswas just a misstep or something
(05:50):
that was targeted in mymarketing or strategic planning.
And it truly wasn't, like manypeople.
It's different nowadays, butwhen I started blogging a long
time ago, most people just fellinto it, and I was at the
beginning when it was just kindof transitioning from something
people did for fun to an actualviable business sense.
(06:12):
It wasn't strategic.
It's my family.
That's how I grew up.
I grew up one day eating Indianfood, one day eating Haitian
food, one day, eatingTrinidadian food.
Because, you know, even justgrowing up in New York, um, not
only is it the countries that Irepresent, I'm also living.
in one of the most diversecities in the world.
(06:34):
So growing up, my friend, a lotjust because of the neighborhood
that I live, most of my friendswere South American and Central
American.
So I, so like those foods are asmuch home to me or comfort food
as my own culture, because Igrew up at my, going to my
friend's house, eating Colombianfood and Ecuadorian food and
Peruvian food and Dominicanfood.
(06:56):
So, All of these different,cultures, I just always had an
interest in, you know, and so tolimit myself to just the ones
that make up my family, like,I'm sorry, maybe it's because
I'm a Gemini, that would just beso boring after.
I can't, you know, like, one ofthe things, like, as a chef and
(07:16):
doing what I do, What's thequestion I detest the most and
you're going to laugh?
What's your favorite meal orwhat's your favorite dish?
I hate that question because ittruly just depends what mood I'm
in.
I may be in the mood for Haitianfood.
I may be in the mood forIndonesian food.
I don't have one.
I don't have a favorite dish toeat and I don't have a favorite
(07:37):
dish to cook.
It's really what mood and isMireille in today?
Paula (07:42):
Mireille, I'm sitting here with a big smile on my
face, the listeners can't hearit, but I feel like I've met my
soul sister because I haven'tmet anyone before, who, um,
started a business based on the,diversity of their family
backgrounds.
I thought mine was prettydivorced, or sorry, not
divorced.
I am divorced, but not, but Ithought my family background was
(08:02):
quite diverse, but yours is, sointeresting.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about what you're doing now
and about your blog and website?
I think it's, uh, I think it'sreally interesting and also a
great resource for everybody.
MIreille (08:17):
Sure.
So, you know.
Um, I started out doing my blog,International Foods.
Well, I started doing it justwhen, like I said, when I
started blogging, doing whateverthe hell I felt like making.
Okay, then when I startedgetting more strategic into
marketing and planning, etc,then it went to international
recipes and that's what I'vedone, you know, throughout the
(08:40):
years with me blogging I've beenin many groups where we do
events together and things ofthat nature I have always found
the history just as important asthe food and I think It's gotten
even so much Just the kind ofvitriolic, sociopolitical stuff
(09:00):
that happens when people are notexposed to different cultures,
different religions, differentcolors, all of that.
And I think, who won't?
will refuse a plate of deliciousfood.
And maybe through develop,through this recipe that I do,
(09:21):
and when I present it on myblog, I kind of give you
background information about thecountry and the culture and the
people.
And maybe they won't seem sostrange to you.
Maybe they won't seem sodifferent to you.
And maybe, you'll say, okay, allthat the media has been feeding
me about this race of peoplemaybe isn't 100 percent true.
(09:41):
So that's one of the mainreasons I do that is to
hopefully try to break down somebiases that people have when
they, I've been lucky, I've beenexposed to so many cultures,
different religions, everyreligion is in my family.
We've got Christians, we've gotHindus, we've got Muslims, we've
got Jewish people.
Okay?
(10:02):
And we all coexist and we'reable to respect and we can
celebrate each other's religiousholidays without judgment.
I only wish the world could dothat.
And I think the next generationis getting better.
And hopefully if we startteaching these children from
young, and I hope that myrecipes, people cook it with
(10:22):
their families, like I havecomments.
My blog of people who use it intheir homeschooling groups,
teach their kids about othercultures.
And those are the messages thatbring me so much joy.
And I'm like, this is why I dowhat I do.
Paula (10:38):
I wish more people could experience.
Eating with people from othercultures, cooking dishes from
other cultures, and just, um,yeah, eating together, learning
together, pretty much breakingbread together, because I agree
with you 100%.
There's something magical thathappens when you are cooking,
your hands are busy, people aremore comfortable talking, asking
(11:02):
questions, not worried aboutasking the wrong question, those
sort of things.
I really want to know moreabout, the diversity of the
Caribbean, the culture, thecuisine.
this could be multiple podcastsand I know many of my listeners
have traveled to the Caribbeanor plan to go to the Caribbean,
and I think this is just anamazing opportunity for them to
(11:22):
learn.
a little bit more than whatGoogle's going to tell them.
So, can you tell me a little bitmore about this passion of yours
about sharing the diversity ofthe Caribbean?
MIreille (11:32):
Okay.
So first of all, by the way, Iam going to podcast on just this
topic with a co host.
She's from Trinidad.
We are just getting started.
Our tentative launch date is forthe beginning of January.
So again, follow me and youknow, you'll get all that
information.
But just generally speaking theCaribbean or the Caribbean or
(11:55):
the West Indies, they're allsynonymous, is not a monolith.
The Caribbean should be dividedinto four groups of islands.
The ones that were colonized bythe Dutch, the ones that were
colonized by the French, theones that were colonized by the
British, and the ones that werecolonized by the Spanish.
You know, they each have, speakdifferent languages, eat
(12:18):
different foods, um, manycultural aspects are different,
you know.
Yes, as Caribbean people, wedefinitely have a unity and we
will fight for each other.
We've seen justice happening toeach other.
There is a sense of communityamong all Caribbean people,
(12:38):
although we do have ourinfighting against certain
islands, and there's lots ofhistorical context for that.
However, generally speaking, inmodern times, you know, we are a
community, but at the same time,we love our individuality, we
love our uniqueness, and we wantpeople to not treat us as One
(13:01):
thing, because we're not onething, I start speaking
Papiamento or something, someonefrom Jamaica is going to look at
me like I'm speaking Chinese,they're not going to understand
a word I'm saying.
I've taught after schoolprograms.
And I swear, the head of thisprogram is based on Chicago, and
I think they would just Googleand look at the first recipe.
(13:21):
And so, there was this book thatwe were supposed to follow.
So like, every week, they pick adifferent country, we teach the
kids about the country, and wecook a meal from that country.
And when I saw under Haiti, Theyhad jerkfish.
I was like, are you freakingkidding me?
No one is in Haiti is makingjerkfish.
Okay.
Okay.
(13:42):
Yes.
Jerk is very popular throughoutthe Caribbean, but that comes
from Jamaica.
The cuisine of Haiti is reallyunique where you can see the
commonality between, like Isaid, a lot of the British
colonized islands, the Spanish,the Dutch, the French, Haiti.
I don't know.
I think, um, And maybe it'sbecause I'm half Haitian, maybe
(14:03):
it's because I'm biased, buteven when you compare it to
other islands like Martinique,Guadeloupe, Dominica.
Dominica, even though they weretechnically colonized from the,
um, got their independence fromthe British, they played piggy
bank between the French and theBritish for a long time.
So they have a lot of Frenchinfluence on their island as
well.
And Haiti just is It's uniquecuisine, a unique culture, I'm
(14:27):
not saying no one is makingjerkfish in Haiti, but that is
not a dish to introduce to youngchildren as a dish that's
representative of Haiti.
Paula (14:36):
Before you carry on about the diversity of the Caribbean,
we have a Facebook group throughIn My Kitchen and somebody asked
me to ask you, and we're goingto talk about the Joumou dish
later on, so don't name thatone, but they wanted me to ask
you, what is the one Haitiandish they should try?
MIreille (14:55):
One Haitian dish you should try.
Oh my gosh.
Mm.
Mm, mm, mm.
Okay, um, for me, are they goingto Haiti or they want to make it
themselves?
Because some dishes are reallygreat, but I wouldn't recommend
like, a novice trying to make itthemselves at home.
Paula (15:13):
Not trying to make it themselves, but just the one
dish they should try if theyever got the, I don't think
anyone's going to be travelingthere right now,
MIreille (15:19):
Or going to a restaurant.
Um, oh my gosh, Haitian food hasbecome so popular, and it's at
least here in the U.
S.
is totally trending.
I'm on TikTok all the time, I'mseeing people trying Haitian
food for the first time at somerestaurant, and this is
something that maybe a lot ofpeople are not ordering, but for
me, I love it.
(15:40):
And it's a, it's called la, wecall it Lai, and it's basically
L-A-M-B-I.
And it's stewed.
It's stewed conch
Paula (15:50):
Oh, okay.
MIreille (15:51):
It's stewed with like onions and peppers and of course
our scotch bonnet, pepper andthyme and parsley and just all
of these aromatic.
And from the time I was a child,it's always been the, you know,
because it's conch, it's themost expensive item on the menu,
usually.
So, but every birthday, like,that was the one thing my mom
(16:13):
would make.
And my mom's not Haitian, butshe learned how to cook Haitian
food from my dad's sisters,where even, like, For family
parties, all the Haitian peoplewould ask for my mom's lambi
because she made like the best.
That to me, it's just because,um, they cook it long and slow
and it's just so tender.
(16:34):
It just melts in your mouth.
Paula (16:36):
I'm going to seek that out Your grandfather was from
Suriname.
Is that correct?
MIreille (16:42):
Yes, my maternal grandfather.
Paula (16:43):
And your mother was from?
Suriname as well then?
Did she grow up there?
No, I got
MIreille (16:49):
my mother.
Okay, so you see, this is howcome I have such a unique
perspective of having insightinto every part of the
Caribbean.
So my mother was born in Aruba,but and she lived in Aruba until
she was around nine years old.
Then she lived in Barbados untilshe was about 16.
And then she lived in Curaçao.
(17:11):
And since she was about 20, andthen she, um, came to the United
States.
Paula (17:17):
Okay.
Interesting.
Okay.
So going back to the diversityof the different regions, the
four regions in the Caribbean,when people do a Caribbean
cruise or they say, I'm going tothe Caribbean.
Do you want to say to them, bemore specific?
Like, where are you going?
Like, it must, it must get, it
MIreille (17:38):
Okay,
Paula (17:38):
get frustrating for you.
MIreille (17:41):
much as I'm all for promoting the diversity of the
Caribbean, my life would be veryexhausting if I tried to, like,
like, hone in on that, on everyaspect of interactions I have
with people.
So no, if they came from acruise, I just say, oh, what
island did you visit?
You know?
Paula (18:02):
For people who are planning to go traveling there,
I think this is a great chanceto get some insight from you.
What kind of trip would yousuggest we do to really
experience the different cultureand cuisines of the regions?
MIreille (18:18):
tHat's so hard.
And the reason it's hard isbecause there is so much
diversity, and it depends whereyou, what you're looking for.
Are you looking for nightlife?
Are you looking for seclusion?
Are you looking for just, natureand a place where you could,
kind of de stress?
Are you looking for adventure?
That's what's so special aboutthe Caribbean.
(18:39):
It has all of that.
You know, it has everything andit just depends what you're
looking for.
But what I would say is to do alittle research and just number
one, not look at the islandsthat everybody goes to.
Because there are so manybeautiful islands that people
overlook because they've neverheard of it or they don't know
(19:00):
what it's And then the otherthing is, a lot of these, um,
government reports that come outand say, Oh, don't go here.
It's dangerous.
Don't go here.
There's a lot of bias in thosethings.
So I would also say, don't.
Use your research.
I said, social media has somebad things, but it has some good
(19:21):
things, too.
And one of the good things isyou can go to social media, see
people who've been thererecently, see what they say, see
what their experiences are.
You know, whether you're onYouTube or TikTok or Instagram,
wherever you go for your socialmedia fix, you know, those are
people who've been there realand many of them are really
(19:42):
nice.
If you pose a question directlyor even DM them, they will
answer you.
Because a lot of people willsay, don't go here because it's
dangerous or whatever.
And then I see people who'vebeen there like, or even myself,
I'm like, what are they talkingabout?
You know?
So I would say if you're goingto go, number one, definitely do
(20:03):
some research, but take thosegovernment warnings with a grain
of salt I find there's just somuch beauty in the islands
that's not Jamaica and Trinidadand St.
Lucia that everyone goes to.
Paula (20:17):
So if I wanted to go and immerse myself and go for 10
days and feel like I was livingwith locals, had my, my favorite
coffee shop to go to, likefeeling like I was living day to
day life like a local.
MIreille (20:36):
It also depends where you stay.
To me, in order to have thatexperience, you need to stay at
a local cottage or a bed andbreakfast, a small hotel in
town, and that's where you'll beable to get those kind of, um,
experiences.
Like my last trip to theCaribbean, I had gone to
Antigua, and I rented a guesthouse that was like in the
(21:00):
mountains, you know?
So, it was so great.
I went to town on market day,and I picked all my vegetables,
and I went soup shopping, cookedall my food, and I would, on the
porch every day, I would havebreakfast with a few birds that
would, like, come and try to eatmy breakfast with me, and them
just chirping away with thebeach in front of my kitchen.
(21:22):
view and to me that wasperfection.
Other people might call thatboring because there's no night
life.
There's no, you know, it's asmall Caribbean island.
To me that was perfection.
Paula (21:34):
That's, I agree.
And I can tell you're not goingto play favourites and name one
specific place, so I'm going tomove on from that.
But talking about
MIreille (21:44):
Okay, I'll
Paula (21:44):
No, I get it.
I get
MIreille (21:45):
I'll tell you one thing.
One island, and maybe I'm alittle biased, but I would have
to say probably one of myfavorite is Dominica.
Yes, my grandmother's fromthere, but Dominica is really
unique.
First of all, it's called thenature island of the Caribbean
for a reason.
It's been largely untouched.
It has.
One of the, I think there's onlythree in the world.
(22:06):
It has one of three boilinglakes in the world.
It's a volcanic, volcanicisland.
There's an emerald pool,literally under the waterfall.
It's this pool you can swim inwhere the, where the water is
dark green if you love nature.
Not to mention the kalinago,they have one of the la they
have the largest intactindigenous population in the
(22:28):
Caribbean that live on protectedpart of the island.
Still live very communally.
So it's just a unique island.
Yes.
I am partial to it'cause mygrandmother's from there.
But if I would say one place youshould visit that you're not
gonna get those experiences onother islands is Dominica
Paula (22:46):
I really appreciate that.
Thank you.
going back to what you saidabout the travel advisories.
So, how about Haiti?
MIreille (22:53):
This is what I will say about Haiti.
Haiti is, um.
There's a lot of corruptionthere, as there are in many
places, but there's also a lotof beauty and a lot of safe
places to go in Haiti.
Port au Prince is dangerous, I'mnot going to lie, but you go to
(23:14):
Cap Haitien, you go to a lot ofthe places out, once you're
outside of Port au Prince, it'salmost like you're in a
different country.
That doesn't even mean youstroll around without being
aware of your surroundings andwhere you are.
There is a woman.
I can't remember her.
(23:34):
Dr.
Pertrude something.
I can't remember it off the topof my head.
I will get it to you and youcould put it in the show notes.
She is a great woman to followon Instagram and on TikTok.
I just can't remember her lastname right now.
And she was even on some newsshow the other day because she
(23:54):
has done a lot in helping.
She's Haitian, but likeBasically brought up in America,
so educated in America and allof that.
And she's, has this not forprofit where she's building
schools in Haiti.
And she just shows, first ofall, she teaches you a lot of
history in her videos.
And she also just shows thebeauty of Haiti, you know.
(24:18):
And shows, you know, that it'snot as dangerous as the media
portrays.
Port au Prince is, but onceyou're out of Port au Prince,
out of the capital, it's a, youknow, and you don't really have
to set foot in Port au Prince.
You take a connecting flight,Port au Prince, Cap Haitien, or
wherever you want to go, andthere's still so much you can
(24:39):
see and enjoy in Haiti, and beas safe as you can be, you know,
in many other places.
Paula (24:46):
And that's perfect transition for you to share with
us the recipe that you'resharing with my listeners,
today.
Tell me about that dish, theHaitian dish.
MIreille (24:57):
Joumou is, is, is, I'm sorry.
Like, it's almost like beyondwords.
It is everything.
You know, and when I was achild, I just thought this was
just, being half Haitian, I'mnot, I would say, as ingrained
maybe in the culture as manyother people, only because I
(25:19):
have these cultural influencescoming from me from so many
directions.
So I know a little of this partof my culture.
I know a little bit of this partof my culture.
I know a little bit.
I'm not as maybe ingrained asother people are.
But Joumou is one of the thingswe had every single year.
And when my mom made Joumou, Oh,and I would eat this thing for
(25:43):
like a week for like breakfast,lunch, and dinner, I just loved
it.
As I got older.
And I learned about the historyand what it represents.
To me, it's even more special.
Joumou is basically a pumpkinsoup, but it's not like any
Western pumpkin soup you haveever had in your life.
It, there's pumpkin, but thenthere's meat.
(26:05):
Uh, it can be made with avariety of meat.
You can use beef.
Goat meat, whatever kind of meatyou'd like really.
It has pasta in it.
It usually has both vermicelliand macro and like penne or
macaroni or something.
And then it will also havevegetables.
There's carrots and there'sturnip, different vegetables in
(26:28):
it.
So it is an all.
Day fair to make Joumou becauseof the way we cook, we don't
just soft taste the meat and addit.
No, the meat is seasoned and alot of times it's seasoned the
night before and marinated, andthen we basically boil the meat
with.
There's always lots of onionsand peppers and Scotch bonnet
(26:50):
and clove and thyme and parsley.
Then after that it's added tothe soup that's, that's been
made Joumou is a symbol.
It's a symbol of freedom ofindependence.
Um, cause January 1st is Haiti'sindependence day.
So people make Joumou everysingle independence day.
(27:10):
And the story goes that, whenthe people were still enslaved,
even though they were the onesmaking the soup, they were not
allowed to eat it.
It was thought to be toorefined, um, for them to
appreciate it.
So when Haiti finally got theirindependence, then General
Dessalines said, everyone gohome and make Joumou.
(27:32):
And now that's part of thehistory of what Haitian people
make every single New Year'sDay.
Paula (27:39):
Tell me about that New Year's Day, uh, celebration,
Independence Day.
What would that look liketypically for a Haitian family
or your family?
MIreille (27:49):
Well, like I said, my family's not typical, so,
Paula (27:52):
Okay.
MIreille (27:53):
but for most, but for most Haitian people, you know,
yeah, you know, a lot of timesit's all of the relatives coming
together at someone's house tomake, I mean, no one makes.
Like a sauce can of Joumou.
People are making like, if yousee, I think it says the recipe
on my website.
I think it feeds like 12 peopleI put for the number of
(28:17):
servings.
Like we, I don't know how tomake that in small servings
because no one is making alittle pot of Joumou for just
like, For, you know, theirfamily.
Because someone's gonna drop by.
Someone's gonna be coming by.
So you always make enough forextra.
And then when they go home, yousend them home with leftovers,
(28:38):
etc.
And then you're eating that fora few days, it tastes better.
Like any recipe, like all thingslike soups and stews, you know,
the more it, it has time todevelop, the better it tastes.
Like day three is when soupJoumou is for me, that is, then
there's nothing to do.
Day one, yeah, it's good.
(28:59):
Day two, it's gotten a littlebit better, but day three, oh my
God, that's the best soupJoumou.
Paula (29:05):
And would you have it during the day or at night?
Like, is it a big lunch meal orin the evening?
MIreille (29:11):
When soup Joumou is there, I will have it for
breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
I truly don't care.
Paula (29:15):
So it just sits on the stove pot and you just go and,
um,
MIreille (29:19):
eat Joumou, till it's finished.
Paula (29:24):
I'm getting the sense from both sides of your family
that hospitality plays a bigrole in, um, both cultures.
Is that fair to say?
MIreille (29:32):
Caribbean cultures in general.
I think Caribbean people, weshare food.
We, no one ever makes enoughfood just for themselves.
It's just part of our cultureand community.
We just cook big vats of food,and if there's leftovers, we
(29:52):
send you home with leftovers.
It's so funny where likeAmerican, often American
parties, they think it's okay tohave a party and just have like,
Chips and soda and stuff likethat.
No, no, no, no.
If you're Caribbean and you'rethrowing a party, people are
expecting rice and peas andcurry chicken and macaroni pie
(30:14):
and fried plantain andeverything.
As people do not go to partiesfor, they expect food.
They don't eat when they'releaving their house because they
expect to find food there.
And if you did not serve themfood, everyone will be talking
about you.
Paula (30:32):
the ingredients in, Dominican and Haitian food, are
there ones that you just can'tfind where you are?
Would there be a couple ofingredients or spices that if
you went back you'd want to tryand bring home with you?
MIreille (30:44):
The only thing I would suggest if you went to Haiti to
bring back is Djon Djon.
So, Djon DJon, it's spelled D JO N, next word, D J O N, is a
regional dried mushroom thatcomes from a particular region
of Haiti.
Anyone who I've ever met and Itell them I'm half Haitian, the
(31:06):
first thing they say is, do youknow how to make the black rice?
And that's what you need to makeis basically you soak or you
boil the dried mushroom and thenyou kind of like put it in the
blender with whatever and itcreates this black liquid and
then you cook the rice.
in the black liquid.
(31:26):
And of course, aromatics areadded.
You know, onions, peppers,garlic, and then it's used lima
beans is usually added.
And shrimp, sometimes both driedshrimp as well as fresh shrimp.
And it's called Jean Jean.
And, um, I can get it here.
It's actually because there's alot of Haitian people here in
(31:47):
New York, especially inBrooklyn, where I live, I can
easily get it by Haitianvendors.
But if you're not In a placewhere there's a Haitian
community, definitely bring backyour djon djon.
Paula (31:59):
So I have to ask you, Mireille, what do you think?
Typically cook for yourhousehold yourself.
I'm very curious.
I'm not asking you what yourfavorite dish is.
I'm very carefully not askingthat.
MIreille (32:14):
Oh my gosh, it's so just depends, I mean, like,
okay, right now I'll be quitehonest, I've been staying with
my mom because she had somesurgery.
So I've been helping her and Ijust cook.
And so I've actually beencooking more here than I do.
For myself, you know, the otherday I made some salt fish.
So salt fish is like.
Dried salted cod.
(32:35):
And so we'll cook, we'll, afterit's been desalinated, we cook
it with, like, onions andpeppers tomato and, hot pepper
and all that.
I made some salt fish and we, wejust had it with the ducanat.
Believe it or not, even thoughthat's something that's sweet,
They mix the sweet and thesalty.
(32:55):
We combine sweet with savory alot in our foods for us.
So our, there is a bit ofsweetness in our stew chicken.
Our stew chicken starts off withbrowning.
It's something called browning,which basically is you cook
sugar until it gets kind ofsmoky and brown.
And that's what we cook ourchicken in.
So there's a lot of sweetness.
(33:17):
even in our savory foods.
So, it just depends.
I made salt fish the other day.
I made some pumpkin soup theother day.
It had like, some smoked meat init, and it had some, split peas
in it, and then some vegetablesand stuff.
We don't eat like, just broth,like puree.
Like, our soups need to havethings in them, okay?
(33:41):
Needs to have potatoes, carrots,plantain, whatever.
Paula (33:45):
Mireille, is there a cookbook coming in the near
future, somewhere down the road?
Because I
MIreille (33:49):
You know, I, I have been trying to write a cookbook
probably for about a decade.
I'm always so busy, so manythings, so somewhere along the
line, it's going to go.
Paula (34:06):
Before I forget, how can people learn more about what
you've been sharing on thepodcast today?
Tell us again your website andI'll put it in the show notes
and how else people can followyou.
MIreille (34:18):
My website is GlobalKitchenTravels.
com and you'll find a lot of therecipes that I've referenced
today, plus more recipes fromaround the world.
You can definitely follow me onsocial media.
spice series on a room inclubhouse.
So if anyone is on clubhouse,it's in the food is religion
(34:39):
club.
So all you have to look for isat Chef Mireille.
I use the same, name on all ofmy social media.
Paula (34:45):
Great, I'll put that in the show notes.
I can't say enough how much I'velearned and enjoyed chatting you
today.
I just, I mean, we've onlytouched the surface.
I really, really hope that youset a date and get that podcast
up and
MIreille (34:58):
it is.
We've already like recorded thefirst episode.
It's just, as you know, whenstarting a podcast, there's a
lot of.
Stuff to do.
Paula (35:08):
there is, I, all I can say is practice the practice of
imperfection.
Just do it.
Anyway, thanks so much,Mireille.
I really enjoyed having you onthe show.
MIreille (35:20):
Likewise, it has been so much fun and I've loved the
conversation.
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