April 8, 2025 • 42 mins
David Siminski, a refiner with 32 years of experience at United Precious Metals in Buffalo, shares his expertise on gold's dramatic price surge, how it might impact custom jewelry projects, and speculates on if the price will continue to climb.
Send feedback or learn more about the podcast: punchmark.com/loupe
Learn about Punchmark's website platform: punchmark.com
Inquire about sponsoring In the Loupe and showcase your business on our next episode: podcast@punchmark.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to In the Loop.
What is up everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
Thanks again for listening toIn the Loop.
This week I'm interviewingDavid Siminsky and he's a
refiner with over 32 years inthe industry and he's sharing
his knowledge all about gold and, more specifically, why is it
(00:23):
so expensive right now?
And the price of gold has goneup nearly 32% as of today in the
past one year and it seems likeevery year there's a new record
setting high.
That is making news, at leastfor me, and I'm talking to him
about what outside factors areimpacting the price of gold,
what this means for customjewelers and different retailers
(00:46):
around the nation, and also howyou can insulate and look to
past events, such as the marketcrash of 2008 and 2009, for what
might be happening to price ofgold in the future.
It's one of the bestconversations I've had on In the
Loop.
David is great on the mic and Ireally hope you enjoy and share
this with your jeweler friends.
(01:06):
Cheers and enjoy.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
This episode is brought to you by Punchmark, the
jewelry industry's favoritewebsite platform and digital
growth agency.
Our mission reaches way beyondtechnology.
With decades of experience andlong-lasting industry
relationships, punchmark enablesjewelry businesses to flourish
in any marketplace.
We consider our clients ourfriends, as many of them have
(01:33):
been friends way before becomingclients.
Punchmark's own success comesfrom the fact that we have a
much deeper need and obligationto help our friends succeed.
Whether you're looking forbetter e-commerce performance,
business growth or campaignsthat drive traffic and sales,
punchmark's website andmarketing services were made
just for you.
It's never too late totransform your business and
(01:54):
stitch together your digital andphysical worlds in a way that
achieves tremendous growth andresults.
Schedule a guided demo today atpunchmarkcom.
Slash go and now back to theshow.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Welcome back everybody.
I'm joined by David Siminsky, arefiner.
David, how are you doing today?
I'm doing well.
So we're here to talk all aboutthe price of gold.
It's a very, very, very topicaltopic and I have it up right
now.
I decided I was going to lookthrough the episode.
Price of gold is at $3,068.20as of this exact recording, but
(02:40):
this episode is going to air inabout four days and who knows
where it's going to be fromthere, because we've been seeing
it literally go up and to theright for the past while.
So I wanted to have you on totalk about, talk through the
outside forces that areimpacting the price of gold,
where we think it's going to go,how it's going to affect
retailers and vendors and justeverybody as a part of the
(03:02):
jewelry industry and vendors andjust everybody as a part of the
jewelry industry.
But I think let's start withyou so that we kind of establish
the authority in the room,because I don't know anything
about this.
David, can you explain yourbackground in the jewelry
industry?
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Yeah, so my name is David Szymanski.
I work for a company in Buffalo, new York.
The company's name is UnitedPrecious Metals.
We do three facets of thejewelry business.
I've worked at United for I'mgoing on my 32nd year, so I'm
considered at this point whichcan always change the vice
president of sales.
We do three facets of thejewelry business.
(03:36):
We are a precious metalsupplier Okay, so basically for
alloys, castigranes, solder,wire and sheet those products
for the bench jeweler and themanufacturers to create jewelry.
We also are the largest US ownedprimary refinery.
So a primary refinery basicallymeans we are the end guy in the
food chain so we can actuallytake that material, your sweeps,
(03:58):
your gold scrap, your benchsweeps, your scrap wood zones
and we actually will take itback down to bullion form.
So we're not middlemanninganything out, so we actually do
it right in Buffalo.
And then we do a little part ofour business also analytical,
so we'll do a lot of testing andcolor matches for people in the
industry.
Everything.
We're about the size of a smallHome Depot.
Everything is done in Buffalo,new York, and we have
(04:21):
approximately 106 employees atthis point.
I've been with United 32 years.
I started basically on refiningtrips which basically United
still does to this day where atthe end of the day, we will
drive using company vans orrented trucks to your location,
actually pick up your materialand actually bring it back.
We're old school, as in thepoint of we're very relationship
(04:45):
based, so that us beingrelationship based, me being on
the road 210 days a year, andthen what happens is is being on
both ends of the gold market,from the refining end, where
people are cashing it, cashingit out, to when they're
purchasing.
I think it gives us a reallygood look at what things and how
(05:05):
things have changed and evolvedin the years and United's been
around since 1988, and I've beenthere since 94.
What's changed and how it'schanged from your manufacturing
here domestically, to now it'sglobally.
How we had to chase it, what'sgoing on with this situation,
everything that's affecting thejewelry industry, especially
from the retailer standpoint.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Man.
So you've been in the industryfor life at this point and I
guess gold has been runningeconomies for hundreds and
hundreds of years and eventhousands of years, but in the
last year I'm just looking at itagain right now the price of
gold is up 32% in the last year.
Have you ever seen a run-uplike this in your experience in
(05:51):
the industry?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
In 2008, 2009, and 2010,.
Actually, after the financialcrisis first hurt, gold ran to
like $1,900, $2,000.
It went from like $1,000, like$1,900, let's say it almost
doubled.
Let's just say that.
And that's when, back in 2009and 10, the first we Buy Golds
campaign was really out there,where everyone from supermarkets
(06:13):
to gas stations to home partiesthat really came into vogue.
So then what happens is, whengold was high like that, the
gold was like pouring in thegold scrap was like pouring in
back.
Then.
Now what's happening?
And then after like 2012, 11,the gold was like pouring in.
The gold scrap was like pouringin back.
Then Now what's happening?
And then after like 2012, 11,the gold price went backwards.
It went back down to like$1,200 and all that type of
stuff.
So now it's slowly gainedmomentum, blew through two, blew
(06:36):
through 2,500, now at 3,000 andup to almost touched 3,200 a
couple of days before we'veactually had this interview, so
it has happened.
Actually had this interview, soit has happened before.
On this increase, this oneseems a little more sustainable
because it really blew through2,000 and went right to 3,000.
The issue really, what happenswhen it comes to the gold price
(06:58):
is how it affects everythingelse.
And, to be honest with you, the, the jewelry industry, is just
a small portion of the, of howthe bullion price, how
interesting.
It's not a large portion, it'sa small portion of it.
So, but we're all affected byit.
Yeah, but there's some.
But I've seen some trends justlately this year of from
(07:20):
basically when I say, well, I'mout, 210 a year, michael, the
issue what happens is it's whenI'm out, it's not just knocking
on doors, but it's going to allthese, all the trade shows.
United does all the trade shows, state events, association
events, conversations, lectures,you know, listening to people's
podcasts, listening to theirwebinars and all that stuff.
(07:40):
So we kind of get out there andget around.
When it comes to really gettingthe, let's say, the story and
the scoop of really what'sactually happening, you know,
and how it affects not just aretailer, how it affects a
wholesaler, how it affects amanufacturer, how it affects,
let's say, a hobbyist or a benchjeweler that's working in his
basement, that has a bench, howeverything comes into play when
(08:04):
it comes to gold price.
But to go back to your originalpoint, yes, we've actually have
seen it before, but it's almostlike I'm steroids right now of
what's happening.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
So you're saying you know, you think it's a little
bit more sustainable.
So that's an interesting kindof term, because I wasn't buying
or paying attention to theprice of gold back then.
This feels like this boom thatI haven't seen for something
that has a tangible aspect to it, Because I find gold to be
fascinating, because there isthis physical aspect where the
(08:37):
amount of gold that you have isthe amount that's in your hand.
It's not, for example, likewe've seen with Bitcoin going
past $100,000 and then peoplewere saying it's going to keep
on going.
The fact that it can go up anddown but the gold is going to
remain is fascinating.
What do you kind of point to asthe main reasons for this most
(09:00):
recent surge when it comes tothe price of gold?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
most recent surge when it comes to the price of
gold.
Well, at first I want to findthose people, just like you said
about the bitcoin thing at ahundred thousand, because I
might have bought.
I'm not going to say true orlies, but I might have bought
one at over a hundred thousand.
It's gone the other way.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Let's stop let's just we'll have that stick to gold
stick to gold, but on the goldprice, and why?
Speaker 3 (09:25):
why?
Basically he's asking is whythe price increase and why?
Okay, so what happens?
I'll go this way first.
Okay, I put on a lot ofpresentations and what happens?
One of the people asks I alwaysput up a slide that says
factors affecting the price ofgold and silver.
I've run this same PowerPointslide.
I've run the same PowerPointslide, ofpoint slide.
(09:46):
I've run the same powerpointslide of what?
Because people always ask meyou're, you're, you know, dave,
you're in the goal, you're inthe goal business.
Where's it going?
And I always have the sameanswer if I knew, I'd be in a
caribbean island right now.
Yeah, I'd be having aconversation with you.
But so what happens is you cansee, I'm not in a caribbean
island'm in Buffalo, new York.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
The opposite of a Caribbean.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Island.
But I did say when I, when Idid start at United, gold was
around 300 and the lowest it gotto in the first like two years
was 254.
So it was $254.
So think about that, I meanreally cool point, going up
almost $2,900, $2,800 in the 30years.
Going up almost $2,900, $2,800in the 30 years, Like it's a big
(10:30):
deal.
Like you said about the goldprice last year, what people
don't seem to understand is likelast year in January gold was
$2,000 and it finished the yearat 2,800.
So I think you mentionedearlier gold went up like 34%.
It was literally the greatestasset class.
When it comes to investing, itwas better than stocks, better
than bonds, better than class.
When it comes to investing, itwas better than stocks, better
than bonds, better than REITs.
It was better than Bitcoingoing.
Last year it was better thaneverything.
(10:52):
And then what happens?
You look at this year goldstarts, gold starts.
I mean, it's already 3,000.
It's edging up from where itended up last year.
And the problem right now is, Ithink, when it comes to the
jewelry market, and also the onething jewelers don't like, or
no one likes, is volatility, andnow what happens is a $50 swing
up, $50 swing Now.
(11:12):
I mean, I'm looking right now,I got CNBC playing it and it's
like I see gold down like $60right now.
So why is gold $60 down now?
Right, you know why.
And if someone just placed anorder yesterday, or they paid
$60 higher for something, youknow they don't always feel that
(11:32):
great about it.
Yeah, you know, it's just amental thing.
But go back to what you say.
It's like this is what are someof the factors if that
basically, uh, affectable?
The value of the US dollar, theUS interest rates, the economic
conditions in a country.
Now what happens is, aka, likeChina, but now you can actually
throw in their tariffs, Strikesand other pipeline issues when
(11:53):
it comes to actually getting itout of the ground and getting it
to market.
The geopolitical factors youknow we're living that right now
and every country we live inthat right now.
The supply from producers andthe demand for jewelry.
That's just demand from theconsumer, Okay.
Inflationary trends.
The gold reserves Like I knowthey were going to go.
Try to go into Fort Knox andsee if gold was there.
(12:15):
I haven't heard a report if thegold's there yet or not.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
I haven't heard it either.
My boss actually asked me toask about what if they go in,
and it's not, and it's all gone.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
It's me to ask about what if they go in and it's not?
And it's all gone, it's notthere.
What if they go on?
It's not there.
The investment demand,speculation in the market for
the traders that are speculating, and a safe hazing, a safe
haven.
You know, you know where people, stocks are too valuable, so
they run to gold, those are likethe 10 factors that actually
affect the price of gold.
And, like I always tell people,it's even like from that
(12:45):
standpoint, even if you fix fiveof them, they're still or teal
with five of them, five of themare still out there running wild
.
So what happens is and after Iused to say this, I used to say
and there's one thing thatalways happens If somebody fires
a missile, all bets are off.
So if someone fires a missile,how does that change the gold
(13:05):
market?
And then, believe it or not,after I said it, after one of my
seminars, a missile was fired,one punched you in another.
Gold went up that day $50, okay,right away, and by the next day
it returned.
You know, so it's like what'sactually moving it.
So it's that volatile at thispoint.
You know, like I said, everyone of these little things that
(13:26):
I just listed are part of theinfluence, but what is really
the main driver?
I think was really what yourquestion was what was really the
main driver?
And I think it's all thedrivers, michael.
I think it's all of themFascinating, no matter where
you're coming from.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
You know you outlined , you're you outlined, you know
10, 10 points and out of the 10,I'd say like seven of them are
like real green lights right now, or or you know they're on full
blast and I guess you know thatdoes seem like it should cause
a goal to keep going up, butit's actually at the point, at
(14:04):
least for everybody all myfriends and my family I've
worked in jewelry long enoughthat they know that I'm in
jewelry and my parents actuallyasked me just the other day hey,
why is gold so high?
Because apparently it was on thenews and they're like, oh, it's
still going up and I guess Iwanted to ask, and I guess I
(14:47):
wanted to ask, with gold beingin the forefront of the news,
being in the limel in 2021, thatwhen it was in the spotlight,
it drove the price up while itwas in the spotlight.
In addition to the otherfactors you just outlined, Do
you think that that is also oneof the outside impacts that is
driving things forward?
Is that people are thinkingabout it and talking about it
more as an asset?
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Well, I think what happens is it's funny.
We come from the industry,right, we're coming from the
industry, so we think it's inthe forthright, we think it's
right there.
But, to be honest with you, theproblem is it's really not,
because what happens is back in2009 and 10, ok, gold price
going up was on cnbc bloombergevery hour of every day.
(15:25):
It was exploding.
The local news was talkingabout it, everything was talking
.
It was in paper, it was in thenewspapers with everything go
now, now move the, now go ahead.
12 years, 13 years.
I'm not sure it's in thespotlight as much to people
outside of our industry.
It is to us.
What happens is is if, even ifyou watch CNBC, if you're, if
(15:47):
you're home, if you have a homeoffice, or you got a computer in
your office and you're watchingand it's on a TV and stuff like
that, you'll see our bloomerslike that.
They don't talk about gold thatmuch at all in like an eight
hour day.
Now we do because we live it,we're taking phone calls from
customers and all that type ofstuff, and they're like because
we live it, we're taking phonecalls from customers and all
that type of stuff and they'relike where's it?
it's always like where's itgoing to go?
(16:07):
Should I sell or should I buy?
You know what I mean?
Those are the main questions,but I don't know if it's
prevalent to the public.
Yes, your parents asked youabout it and all that type of
stuff because they know you'rein the industry or stuff like
that.
But I talk to a lot ofretailers themselves.
We have a lot of retailcustomers, okay, and what
happens is, to be honest withyou, they're actually having a
(16:29):
great year and what happens isvery rarely is anyone really
asking about the goal price whenit comes to, and very rarely
are a lot of the retailersactually changing their price
structure on $100 going up or$100 going back or $200 going up
or back.
Now, the tariff situation,that's brand new.
So how that will affect it andall that stuff, because they're
(16:51):
actually buying.
But the gold price itselfusually what happens is bridal
controls, what 75% of the marketwhen it comes to jewelry, the
brides aren't asking how muchthe gold is.
So, again, they're looking atthe is, they're looking at the
ring, they're looking at thenatural diamond or the lab gold,
whatever they're going to use.
But what I see from theretailer standpoint is I see a
(17:17):
lot more.
I see it's more expensive tobuy gold, but also too is I
think what's happening is nowthat the gold price is so high
just like your parents asked andall that stuff I almost think
that there's a perceived value,that the jewelry is more
expensive now.
That that's why people areactually having a good year.
A lot of our customers arehaving a good year because it's
(17:38):
almost like one of those thingswhere you would think it would
go reverse like the gold priceis higher, like it's going to be
less and less.
We're not seeing it.
Now you could probably havesomeone doing a chat saying you
know we're taking a beating hereand all that stuff, but most of
the customers from high end tomiddle of the ground to like to
even the pawn shops they're notseeing it.
You know they're not.
(17:59):
The effect of the gold price isreally not changing a lot of
the buying habits of theconsumer and most jewelry
companies are actually having agood first three months of the
year.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Wow, and you know it's really an interesting
effect because, like you said,you know I would have expected
the perceived value of gold todrive down the attainability, if
that's even the perspective ofit, but it sounds like you know,
hey, gold is valuable and it'sup, and, like you said, brides
(18:31):
aren't asking you know what theprice of gold is, they just want
a ring.
I wanted to ask do you think,though, that this might have
knock-on effects in otheraspects, For example with custom
jewelry?
Do you find, or would youpredict, that, with the price of
gold, people only have acertain budget you know they
(18:51):
have X budget and if cost ofmaterial, especially when it
comes to the metal and not thecenter stone most likely is
eating up, instead of it costing70% of the value of the custom
jewelry project, it's now taking80% of the budget, Do you find
that that might have a negativeeffect on custom jewelers in the
(19:14):
future, or do you think thatthey'll just have more
opportunity to mark things up?
And people aren't asking aboutthe price of gold anyway, so
it's just going to be whateverit is.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
And I think that second point of yours is
actually more valid, and I thinkabout when you say the term
custom, custom Well, what doesthat say?
Custom, that means it'sespecially made just for you.
Okay, and really right, for,like all the software programs
that are out there now that theretail jewelers use that they're
designing a piece and thebrides are changing this stone
(19:46):
and changing this head and allthat stuff.
Well, you're customizing it.
At that point it's like goingto get a custom paint job on a
car, right, it's like, well,it's customized so they can
throw more margins in there andall that type of stuff.
They don't have to carry theinventory as much as they have
to, you know, because whathappens is everyone wants to,
everyone wants to, you know,design their own piece and all
(20:07):
that stuff.
And that's a big part of theissue too is, you know, when you
go back to the gold stuff, Iget gold's not unlimited.
So I think what people alwaysthink from the refining and all
that type of stuff like it's,you know that there's going to
be plenty of gold, there's goingto be plenty of silver, plenty
of platinum, plenty of palladiumout there.
You know, it's just like no,it's got to come.
It's either coming out of theground or it's coming.
(20:29):
Basically, using the terms, youknow we've been a United.
It's been a big promo ofrecycled metal.
A lot of our metals willrecycle.
Now you know there's a.
There's a big push in theindustry to strip the term
recycled and put repurposed,re-imagine, redefine.
That's when the language policeis getting involved and just
trying to change the term.
But at the end of the day it'salready above ground.
(20:50):
It's not going to disturb theearth anymore.
They're not going to create anymore issues in that point.
So the metal itself like it'sjust like one of the things that
comes in the gold industry,michael, right now is they want
a lot of certifications, thirdparty audits to say you're green
, you're clean, you're doing itright, yada, yada, yada.
(21:11):
The problem is where we atUnited used to have a compliance
department of one person.
Now it's up to seven, becausewhat happens is we have to grab
all this paperwork from everyone, have it all in a file, have it
all computerized.
So when we get audited by thesefirms that say that we're doing
the job the right way and allthat stuff, because that's what
(21:32):
our customers want, that whathappens is that we're covered.
Well, that also adds to thecost of the metal that we're
supplying to the manufacturerswho are then making it for the
wholesaler and to the retail.
So I go back when you summarizeit all.
I just don't think the metal'sa big play when it comes to
customs at all custom at allbecause also too, you can go
(21:54):
from gold to platinum.
So you had gold at 3000 andplatinum at a thousand let's say
just on let's say, on wedding,on engagement rings, you can.
You can do that by putting yourmetal costs in.
The third, you know 80% of the80% of the market is gold and
probably only 20% is likeplatinum.
So platinum's always got a longway to go versus the gold.
(22:15):
Market owns like 80% of thebridal and all that type of
stuff from the yellow and thewhite.
So I think what happens is is.
I just don't see that the priceof gold is really affecting the
retailer from the customer.
Now there might be a bunch ofretailers that come on and just
blow my theory away, but I justdon't feel it.
(22:37):
You know what happens is is.
You know I'm gonna take, I'mgonna borrow something from
someone who once said remember,jewelry is only bought for three
reasons in the world love, lustor guilt oh nice, let's do that
, that's good, every piece ofjewelry fits in one of those
categories and sometimes,depending on how much trouble
you're in, it can fit in two ofthose categories.
(22:59):
So that's um.
So that's if you define jewelryas as what it is.
You know, enjoying the UnitedStates is different than you
know the gold when it factorsinto the jewelry, versus like
overseas, like in India and allthat type of stuff.
You know, I have five guys thatwork for me in India that run
around and you know the gold'sbought and the jewelry's bought
(23:20):
there as as celebrations foreverything.
They have, you know,celebrations and they buy gold
for their children.
They buy, you know, gold fortheir, for their spouses, and
all that stuff.
In the US it's never been likethat.
Jewelry is barely given onValentine's, christmas, mother's
Day, maybe a religious holiday.
It could be a bar mitzvah, itcould be a christening, it could
(23:43):
be a communion, anything likethat, a confirmation.
It just isn't pushed here asmuch as it is overseas when it
comes to the gift giving portionof it.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Wow, you know that's a really illuminating kind of
perspective on it and I thinkyou're I really appreciate you
sharing your expertise.
All right, everybody, we'regoing to take a quick break and
hear a word from our sponsor.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Hey everyone, jason from Punchmark here.
Are you ready to take youronline presence to the next
level?
If so, then I invite you tojoin us for our annual education
workshop in Charlotte, northCarolina, where you'll gain
expert insights, hands-ontraining and actionable
strategies to grow your businessonline.
This exclusive event isdesigned just for jewelers like
(24:31):
you, covering everything fromwebsite best practices and
e-commerce strategies to digitalmarketing and customer
engagement.
Plus, you'll have the chance tonetwork with industry experts
and fellow jewelers who shareyour passion for success.
Join us, may 18th to the 20th.
Limited spots are available, sodon't miss this opportunity to
(24:51):
refine your digital strategy andset your business up for
success.
Register now at punchmarkcomslash workshop and secure your
spot today.
Again, that's punchmarkcomslash workshop.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
And now back to the show.
Back to the show and we're back.
I wanted to ask I'm alwaysfascinated with these I guess,
unrelated effects that connectindustries.
(25:27):
For example, there's this termcalled trash pop.
Trash pop is a genre of musicthat's epitomized by Kesha and
T-Pain a couple of these peoplethat were really popular during
the well for, but it wasfascinating to see the
(25:50):
connection.
Nowadays they're seeing anincrease in trash pop and I was
wondering if we will also seethese connections between other
industries, like jewelry, forexample.
If we might be having, withthis increase in tariffs,
increase in speculation in themarket, things like that, will
(26:11):
it affect jewelry in a similarway as what it did in 2008 and
2009?
I was too young to be buyingjewelry back then.
What trends were you seeingback in 2008 and 2009 around
jewelry, and do you think wewill see similar trends in the
coming years or a few years if arecession shows itself?
Speaker 3 (26:37):
In 2008, 2009 and 10, .
The biggest thing that happenedis the gold market going up
actually probably saved theindustry.
What happens is everyone wentto we Buy Gold.
So I always tell people.
You know what happens.
And the problem is a lot ofretailers turned into pawn shops
Because what happens?
It was the only way traffic wascoming in the store.
(26:59):
They had big signs we Buy Gold.
Someone paid cash, someone paidchecks, someone gave account
credit, because I always toldpeople as people were walking.
As a customer walking into aretail store, it's so much
harder for me to get you to buysomething versus if you're
coming in with some scrap goldor whatever like that, for some
necklaces and earrings that arebroken.
(27:19):
It was so much easier for me totake that gold and give you
money.
So what happens is that pointsaved a lot of retail stores
because before that, in sevenand eight, you know, the market
really wasn't selling a lot.
There really wasn't a lot ofjewelry being.
You know it was.
It was still kind of findingits own way as gold price was
increasing because it got tooexpensive.
People got, people got tooexpensive.
(27:41):
I mean, gold got expensive.
So then what happens is itflipped it and everyone started
selling their gold.
So a lot of jewelers were ableto make a lot of money during
that time, where some of themspent it and had a good time,
but some of them put into newstore design, maybe a second
location.
Some of them socked that moneythey made for a rainy day.
(28:02):
Some of them bought more oftheir own inventory.
So that trend back then calledthe trash pop trend, or like you
just said, actually helped theindustry tremendously, you know.
And so what happens is is youforecast it now?
You, now you bring it to whereit is right now like trash pop.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
I'm hoping I'm talking about nickelback either
no, no, it's more like it's anindicator because it was so
popular at the same time.
But what you're talking aboutwith how often can you walk into
a store and have the store giveyou money?
Not very often, but we're seeing, actually related to that, a
huge rise.
I actually just did an episodepretty recently about one of our
(28:44):
recent guests and sponsors,National Rarities.
They do these estate buyingevents and they from when I've
spoken with retailers who havedone these events, they say it's
very invigorating for theirclient base because it brings in
new clients that have neverbeen in the store before and it
also gives them the opportunityto remarket and have them sign
(29:07):
the check back to the store for,you know, X percent or
something like that, which is awin-win-win for the customer,
the retailer and also nationalrarities, because everybody is
pleased with the end result.
But I'm curious to see if thatis kind of it seems like we're
kind of following a lot of thesame steps, especially with
(29:30):
what's going on with gold.
It's beyond my understandingsome of the times, but for when
I don't understand something I'mtrying my hardest to look at
past examples to see if I cankind of find the roadmap that's
already sort of played out andit sounds like there are sort of
things that we can infer fromin in a historical past national
(29:53):
rarity is very good, very goodcompany.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
You're very good.
I know, I know them well and um, what they're doing is now it's
no different than what happenedin 2008 and 2009.
So that model where you go intoa store, you set up something,
you don't know what's going tocome through the store, you know
what happens and literally it'salmost like a gold buying type
of situation buying gold they'rebringing in, they're picking up
(30:17):
a state drawer that's beingsold.
You know, someone's selling agrandmother's ring, not knowing
that the grandmother's ring hasa ton of value because it might
be an old Cartier ring, it mightbe an old Tiffany ring, that
actually it's almost like.
It's almost like vintage.
So what happens is in thecraftsmanship and all that stuff
comes back and it's like a win.
Like you said, it's a win-winfor everybody on that.
(30:38):
So I see the repeat of that.
Now I haven't seen gold partiescome back up, which is ironic,
because parties, what were those?
So what happens?
Back in nine and ten, you hadcompanies that really what
happens is is they would havesomeone you know house the gold
party for the neighborhood andthen what happens is they invite
everyone, everyone bring someof the gold.
They have someone there thatcould scratch, test and give,
(31:01):
give money for the people inJewish, so they actually have a
party, maybe serve some horsd'oeuvres and all that type of
stuff that went on prevalentlyback in 2009-10.
Wow, I still have a friend ofmine now that actually he does
gold buying events throughchurches and what happens is he
makes a deal with the church andthen what happens is they
(31:23):
promote it in the bulletin andthen what happens is he gives a
portion of that stuff that hebuys back to the church.
It's a win-win-win foreverybody, because what happens
is, like I said, they're justthose different things.
So I'm seeing that a little bitcome around Because also like
the gold parties and stuff backin 2010,.
(31:44):
That got very corporate.
I mean there were like that gotvery corporate.
I mean there were people thatwere going down to the Caribbean
.
They were going down theislands and what happens?
They rent out a hotel suite forthe weekend advertising the
local paper and bring this,bring this stuff, you know, and
people will be like and this isthis is really going B to C
versus like what's happening,like like now, stuff like that.
So they like a company,national rarity, sets up, sets
(32:04):
up at a retail spot and whathappens?
They advertise and stuff likethat.
And you're right, those, thosethat owner and those jewelers,
those sales people, that's athat's a time for them to.
What happens is if people arebringing in their scrap or
they're buying something andthey have an account credit and
then they can shop at the store.
That's a win-win all day long.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Yeah, what a really interesting concept, because I
could see how, yeah, you couldgo to these sort of sleepier
areas and people have leftoverstuff.
That sounds very enticing.
I could see how that would workout and I feel like that's,
yeah, very similar to whatNational Rarities is doing.
But just to kind of drive thishome, I want to ask two quick
(32:46):
questions at the end.
The first is with gold becomingmore popular and maybe gold
buying becoming more popularwith the increase in gold, I
wanted to ask are there any bestpractices or resources that you
can point people to in order tobe buying safely?
Because increasingly I've seenI see it all the time on the
(33:08):
internet where people buy reallygood knockoffs of the Canadian
maple leaf and it's actuallywhat lead.
That's gold plated and they usereally thick gold plating but
the core of it is lead.
Is there anything that youwould recommend people brush up
on if they are interested inmaybe getting involved in buying
(33:31):
gold?
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Gold magazine.
Exactly what you said Caveatemptor.
Right, let the buyer beware.
That's number one.
Listen, is there a lot of fakeout there?
Yes, also, too, is there a lotof under carotid material out
there?
Yes, what people don'tunderstand sometimes in some of
the talks that I give is10-carried, 14-carried and
18-carried.
In the US it basically has10-carried is like 41.67% gold,
(33:55):
14-carried is 58.34% and18-carried is 75%.
That is the gold percentages.
Now what happens in the USversus over in Europe?
We have tolerances, so thetolerances is you can still be
at 5803 and still be consideredplum gold, 14 karat.
What people don't understand isthe plum law went into effect
(34:15):
in the beginning of the 80s,which basically means anything
that was bought before that wasactually 13 karat or 13 and a
half karat, ok.
So what happens is you thinkit's 14 karat, then it's going
to be like 58% pure.
It's not.
Some of this stuff is like 54,53%.
So when you're buying and ifyou're buying tight, I'm always
(34:37):
a big believer is I always thinkthat in every business,
especially in the jewelrybusiness, we've all pushed the
margins down to nothing and themargins need to go the other way
.
What happens is I'm always abeliever is building your
buffers when you're buying andall that type of stuff.
Yes, there's some great testersout there.
You can go for everything froma simple scratch test now to
(34:58):
like electronic testers that youcan buy.
You can also buy little x-rayunits.
You know some are expensive,some aren't cheap.
I mean some other like peopletalk about the nitron gun where
it's like twenty thousanddollars but it can test the
piece.
It can.
It can penetrate a little bitof the plating.
There is a lot of heavierplated pieces out there.
You know that will actuallyfool.
(35:18):
You know certain scratch testsand all that stuff.
You know it's really.
Do your due diligence.
Don't trust, don't.
You know you have, don't justeyeball it and do the eyeball
test because that's that's someof the issues that come into
play.
Because, as a refiner, I alwaystell people when they send in
the lot, there's always what Icall the expectation.
They send in a bag of 14 karatscrap or 10 karat scrap and they
(35:40):
have already a number in theirhead yeah, it's, it's supposed
to be.
And then what happens is Ialways tell them we're the
report card, we're not usinglittle electronic test or a
scratch test, we're actuallygoing to melt it, we're going to
do fire assays, we're going todo ICPs, we're going to do
x-rays, we're going to tell youin science exactly what's in
there.
And I always equate to likeit's a customer's expectations.
(36:01):
So I always, I always equate tolike it's a customer's
expectations.
So I always.
I always use what I call a lotof my slides.
I use what's called thehamburger ad, where you see on,
you see on Burger King and outwhatever, where you are in the
country, mcdonald's, and alsoyou see the picture of the
perfect burger.
Yeah, it looks great.
Yeah, you know, as I knowMichael, go into that restaurant
(36:23):
and it looks nothing like that.
Yeah, I'm like it's theexpectation versus the reality.
So I'm always trying to saywhat happens is to make sure,
when you're buying whether it bea retail store, you're going to
start a gold buying operation,all that type of stuff that you
have the right buffers and theright education, just like you
were asking.
There's some great books onAmazon.
(36:44):
There's a real good one writtenby actually a gentleman by the
name of Ralph Amador, and whathappens is it's about gold
buying techniques.
It's an easy read and once youget it on Amazon and, believe it
or not, if you actually Googlemy name on Amazon, it'll
actually come up that book.
That book will actuallyshowcase the whole gold buying
thing, from how it started toall the equipment that's out
(37:06):
there, how it's tested.
You know the different pitfallsand all that stuff.
So there is some, there is someliterature out there and
obviously the internet.
You know there's a lot ofpeople who are teaching some of
the websites and all that typeof stuff.
But I'm always like, if you'regoing to buy, you know, I, I
used also, I also use the theused car valuation on KBB.
Hey, I also used the used carvaluation on KBB.
(37:26):
Hey, we're going to trade in acar.
I looked up online before Iwent to the dealership my car is
worth $13,000.
That's what it said tradingvalue is.
Then you get to the dealer andthey're like we're giving you 11
.
Yeah, but the internet said itwas 13.
Yeah, but what we're willing togive you is 11.
, just because something'svalued a certain way.
(37:46):
Way, you got to make sure thatyou're doing the the right
amount of testing and all thatstuff and just I'd say, always
put your buffers in there Ireally, I really do agree, and
you got to make your,everybody's got to make their
scratch, you know.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
So, I guess, just just to kind of round it out
right now, when we started this,uh, this interview, uh, the
price of gold was at $30.55.
It is now $30.44.
So it's gone down 11.
Now I guess, david, if you hadto make a prediction
professionally, maybe do youthink that gold will continue to
(38:19):
rise in the coming months oryear?
Speaker 3 (38:23):
Or is that not?
Speaker 1 (38:24):
something you would speculate?
Speaker 3 (38:25):
on.
I think in 2025, we're going tohit 3,500.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
3,500,.
Wow, that would be pretty crazy.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
What happens is remember, it builds steps, the
way it has to do.
What I tell people all the timeis you know gold gets to 28,.
Then she builds to 29,.
She'll fall back down, like itbuilds its base and it moves the
base up and it moves the baseup and it moves the base up.
When you blow through a coupleof price, like a couple hundred
dollars, really quickly, you'regoing to have a pullback.
(38:54):
It just doesn't accelerate thatquickly.
So you're going to have apullback, but the trend is going
up.
The trend's been going up for along time.
Just pull up a graph.
Go to Kitco.
Everyone knows what Kitco is.
Go to Kitco.
You can see the price of gold.
You can put in a long chart of20 years or five years or one
month.
You can see the base buildingup.
So that's really what's goingto happen, or that's what's
happening.
Well, I believe.
(39:14):
Could it go back down?
I don't think you'll ever goback below $2,500.
I think the base at $2,500 iswell built and well supported
and I think that is also at 28.
At 3,000, it's still messingaround.
I think last week it went ashigh as 3,159 or something like
that.
So 3,159, if that's high andyou're down to what it's already
(39:37):
fallen like $140.
Speaker 4 (39:39):
You know what?
Speaker 3 (39:39):
I'm saying, but it's building its base and it's going
to continue the climb.
Now it might hit 3,500 a coupletimes.
It might hit it once and fallback down, but the trend right
now on gold price is on theincrease and I equate it to gas.
So what happens?
Remember people used to freakout when gas was $3.
They didn't want the $4 agallon.
People like they traded intheir SUVs and they want more
(40:02):
hybrid and smaller cars.
Now what happens is people $4gas doesn't even bug them
anymore, like it's part of theequation.
Now they'll get spooked if itgets to $5, right, I mean
obviously in California anddifferent places it's a little
different, but for the most ofthe norm, if it gets to $5,
people will once again feel Ihave less money in my pocket and
(40:23):
all that type of stuff.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
I think that's a lot like the gold price Once it
reaches a certain thing, peopledon't get spooked by it.
David, I can honestly say thisis one of the most interesting
episodes I've ever done.
I really appreciate you sharingyour expertise.
This is something that's verytopical, but something I'm going
to be following along probablyfor the next bunch of years if
it continues this crazy run.
I really can't thank you enough.
So, david, you said you have abook on Amazon, and if people
(40:50):
were to just Google DavidSiminski on Amazon, they'll be
able to find your manual.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
It's a book written by an associate of mine, ralph
Amador, but it's a great bookwhen it comes to just the
intricates of buying gold,buying silver, buying platinum
and palladium.
So it's a great book when itcomes to the just the the
intricates of buying gold,buying silver, buying platinum
and palladium.
So it's a.
It's an easy read.
It's I think it's like $24, nocut here.
I don't get a spiff or anythinglike that.
So it's just the point of just,if you're looking to get into
(41:17):
it or questioning, or a goodsales training tool for your
associates.
It's something you shouldconsider.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
I appreciate that and I'll try to link that in the
show notes below.
But thank you again, david, Ireally appreciate it.
Everybody, yeah, just be smartout there, buyer beware, and
just maybe write in.
Tell me if you're getting moreinto gold.
I'd love to hear.
Thank you again, david,everybody.
We'll be back next week,tuesday, with another episode.
Cheers everybody, bye.
All right, everybody.
(41:50):
That's the end of the show.
Thanks so much for listening.
My guest this week was DavidSminski and he's a refiner with
over 32 years in the jewelryindustry.
He was a really great guest.
This episode was brought to youby Punchmark and produced and
hosted by me, michael Burpo.
This episode was edited by PaulSuarez with music by Ross
Cockrum.
Don't forget to rate thepodcast on Spotify and Apple
(42:13):
Podcasts and leave us feedbackon punchmarkcom slash loop.
That's L-O-U-P-E.
Thanks.
We'll be back next week,tuesday, with another episode.
Cheers, bye.
Welcome to In the Loop.
What is up everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
Thanks again for listening toIn the Loop.
This week I'm interviewingDavid Siminsky and he's a
refiner with over 32 years inthe industry and he's sharing
his knowledge all about gold and, more specifically, why is it
(00:23):
so expensive right now?
And the price of gold has goneup nearly 32% as of today in the
past one year and it seems likeevery year there's a new record
setting high.
That is making news, at leastfor me, and I'm talking to him
about what outside factors areimpacting the price of gold,
what this means for customjewelers and different retailers
(00:46):
around the nation, and also howyou can insulate and look to
past events, such as the marketcrash of 2008 and 2009, for what
might be happening to price ofgold in the future.
It's one of the bestconversations I've had on In the
Loop.
David is great on the mic and Ireally hope you enjoy and share
this with your jeweler friends.
(01:06):
Cheers and enjoy.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
This episode is brought to you by Punchmark, the
jewelry industry's favoritewebsite platform and digital
growth agency.
Our mission reaches way beyondtechnology.
With decades of experience andlong-lasting industry
relationships, punchmark enablesjewelry businesses to flourish
in any marketplace.
We consider our clients ourfriends, as many of them have
(01:33):
been friends way before becomingclients.
Punchmark's own success comesfrom the fact that we have a
much deeper need and obligationto help our friends succeed.
Whether you're looking forbetter e-commerce performance,
business growth or campaignsthat drive traffic and sales,
punchmark's website andmarketing services were made
just for you.
It's never too late totransform your business and
(01:54):
stitch together your digital andphysical worlds in a way that
achieves tremendous growth andresults.
Schedule a guided demo today atpunchmarkcom.
Slash go and now back to theshow.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Welcome back everybody.
I'm joined by David Siminsky, arefiner.
David, how are you doing today?
I'm doing well.
So we're here to talk all aboutthe price of gold.
It's a very, very, very topicaltopic and I have it up right
now.
I decided I was going to lookthrough the episode.
Price of gold is at $3,068.20as of this exact recording, but
(02:40):
this episode is going to air inabout four days and who knows
where it's going to be fromthere, because we've been seeing
it literally go up and to theright for the past while.
So I wanted to have you on totalk about, talk through the
outside forces that areimpacting the price of gold,
where we think it's going to go,how it's going to affect
retailers and vendors and justeverybody as a part of the
(03:02):
jewelry industry and vendors andjust everybody as a part of the
jewelry industry.
But I think let's start withyou so that we kind of establish
the authority in the room,because I don't know anything
about this.
David, can you explain yourbackground in the jewelry
industry?
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Yeah, so my name is David Szymanski.
I work for a company in Buffalo, new York.
The company's name is UnitedPrecious Metals.
We do three facets of thejewelry business.
I've worked at United for I'mgoing on my 32nd year, so I'm
considered at this point whichcan always change the vice
president of sales.
We do three facets of thejewelry business.
(03:36):
We are a precious metalsupplier Okay, so basically for
alloys, castigranes, solder,wire and sheet those products
for the bench jeweler and themanufacturers to create jewelry.
We also are the largest US ownedprimary refinery.
So a primary refinery basicallymeans we are the end guy in the
food chain so we can actuallytake that material, your sweeps,
(03:58):
your gold scrap, your benchsweeps, your scrap wood zones
and we actually will take itback down to bullion form.
So we're not middlemanninganything out, so we actually do
it right in Buffalo.
And then we do a little part ofour business also analytical,
so we'll do a lot of testing andcolor matches for people in the
industry.
Everything.
We're about the size of a smallHome Depot.
Everything is done in Buffalo,new York, and we have
(04:21):
approximately 106 employees atthis point.
I've been with United 32 years.
I started basically on refiningtrips which basically United
still does to this day where atthe end of the day, we will
drive using company vans orrented trucks to your location,
actually pick up your materialand actually bring it back.
We're old school, as in thepoint of we're very relationship
(04:45):
based, so that us beingrelationship based, me being on
the road 210 days a year, andthen what happens is is being on
both ends of the gold market,from the refining end, where
people are cashing it, cashingit out, to when they're
purchasing.
I think it gives us a reallygood look at what things and how
(05:05):
things have changed and evolvedin the years and United's been
around since 1988, and I've beenthere since 94.
What's changed and how it'schanged from your manufacturing
here domestically, to now it'sglobally.
How we had to chase it, what'sgoing on with this situation,
everything that's affecting thejewelry industry, especially
from the retailer standpoint.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Man.
So you've been in the industryfor life at this point and I
guess gold has been runningeconomies for hundreds and
hundreds of years and eventhousands of years, but in the
last year I'm just looking at itagain right now the price of
gold is up 32% in the last year.
Have you ever seen a run-uplike this in your experience in
(05:51):
the industry?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
In 2008, 2009, and 2010,.
Actually, after the financialcrisis first hurt, gold ran to
like $1,900, $2,000.
It went from like $1,000, like$1,900, let's say it almost
doubled.
Let's just say that.
And that's when, back in 2009and 10, the first we Buy Golds
campaign was really out there,where everyone from supermarkets
(06:13):
to gas stations to home partiesthat really came into vogue.
So then what happens is, whengold was high like that, the
gold was like pouring in thegold scrap was like pouring in
back.
Then.
Now what's happening?
And then after like 2012, 11,the gold was like pouring in.
The gold scrap was like pouringin back.
Then Now what's happening?
And then after like 2012, 11,the gold price went backwards.
It went back down to like$1,200 and all that type of
stuff.
So now it's slowly gainedmomentum, blew through two, blew
(06:36):
through 2,500, now at 3,000 andup to almost touched 3,200 a
couple of days before we'veactually had this interview, so
it has happened.
Actually had this interview, soit has happened before.
On this increase, this oneseems a little more sustainable
because it really blew through2,000 and went right to 3,000.
The issue really, what happenswhen it comes to the gold price
(06:58):
is how it affects everythingelse.
And, to be honest with you, the, the jewelry industry, is just
a small portion of the, of howthe bullion price, how
interesting.
It's not a large portion, it'sa small portion of it.
So, but we're all affected byit.
Yeah, but there's some.
But I've seen some trends justlately this year of from
(07:20):
basically when I say, well, I'mout, 210 a year, michael, the
issue what happens is it's whenI'm out, it's not just knocking
on doors, but it's going to allthese, all the trade shows.
United does all the trade shows, state events, association
events, conversations, lectures,you know, listening to people's
podcasts, listening to theirwebinars and all that stuff.
(07:40):
So we kind of get out there andget around.
When it comes to really gettingthe, let's say, the story and
the scoop of really what'sactually happening, you know,
and how it affects not just aretailer, how it affects a
wholesaler, how it affects amanufacturer, how it affects,
let's say, a hobbyist or a benchjeweler that's working in his
basement, that has a bench, howeverything comes into play when
(08:04):
it comes to gold price.
But to go back to your originalpoint, yes, we've actually have
seen it before, but it's almostlike I'm steroids right now of
what's happening.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
So you're saying you know, you think it's a little
bit more sustainable.
So that's an interesting kindof term, because I wasn't buying
or paying attention to theprice of gold back then.
This feels like this boom thatI haven't seen for something
that has a tangible aspect to it, Because I find gold to be
fascinating, because there isthis physical aspect where the
(08:37):
amount of gold that you have isthe amount that's in your hand.
It's not, for example, likewe've seen with Bitcoin going
past $100,000 and then peoplewere saying it's going to keep
on going.
The fact that it can go up anddown but the gold is going to
remain is fascinating.
What do you kind of point to asthe main reasons for this most
(09:00):
recent surge when it comes tothe price of gold?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
most recent surge when it comes to the price of
gold.
Well, at first I want to findthose people, just like you said
about the bitcoin thing at ahundred thousand, because I
might have bought.
I'm not going to say true orlies, but I might have bought
one at over a hundred thousand.
It's gone the other way.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Let's stop let's just we'll have that stick to gold
stick to gold, but on the goldprice, and why?
Speaker 3 (09:25):
why?
Basically he's asking is whythe price increase and why?
Okay, so what happens?
I'll go this way first.
Okay, I put on a lot ofpresentations and what happens?
One of the people asks I alwaysput up a slide that says
factors affecting the price ofgold and silver.
I've run this same PowerPointslide.
I've run the same PowerPointslide, ofpoint slide.
(09:46):
I've run the same powerpointslide of what?
Because people always ask meyou're, you're, you know, dave,
you're in the goal, you're inthe goal business.
Where's it going?
And I always have the sameanswer if I knew, I'd be in a
caribbean island right now.
Yeah, I'd be having aconversation with you.
But so what happens is you cansee, I'm not in a caribbean
island'm in Buffalo, new York.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
The opposite of a Caribbean.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Island.
But I did say when I, when Idid start at United, gold was
around 300 and the lowest it gotto in the first like two years
was 254.
So it was $254.
So think about that, I meanreally cool point, going up
almost $2,900, $2,800 in the 30years.
Going up almost $2,900, $2,800in the 30 years, Like it's a big
(10:30):
deal.
Like you said about the goldprice last year, what people
don't seem to understand is likelast year in January gold was
$2,000 and it finished the yearat 2,800.
So I think you mentionedearlier gold went up like 34%.
It was literally the greatestasset class.
When it comes to investing, itwas better than stocks, better
than bonds, better than class.
When it comes to investing, itwas better than stocks, better
than bonds, better than REITs.
It was better than Bitcoingoing.
Last year it was better thaneverything.
(10:52):
And then what happens?
You look at this year goldstarts, gold starts.
I mean, it's already 3,000.
It's edging up from where itended up last year.
And the problem right now is, Ithink, when it comes to the
jewelry market, and also the onething jewelers don't like, or
no one likes, is volatility, andnow what happens is a $50 swing
up, $50 swing Now.
(11:12):
I mean, I'm looking right now,I got CNBC playing it and it's
like I see gold down like $60right now.
So why is gold $60 down now?
Right, you know why.
And if someone just placed anorder yesterday, or they paid
$60 higher for something, youknow they don't always feel that
(11:32):
great about it.
Yeah, you know, it's just amental thing.
But go back to what you say.
It's like this is what are someof the factors if that
basically, uh, affectable?
The value of the US dollar, theUS interest rates, the economic
conditions in a country.
Now what happens is, aka, likeChina, but now you can actually
throw in their tariffs, Strikesand other pipeline issues when
(11:53):
it comes to actually getting itout of the ground and getting it
to market.
The geopolitical factors youknow we're living that right now
and every country we live inthat right now.
The supply from producers andthe demand for jewelry.
That's just demand from theconsumer, Okay.
Inflationary trends.
The gold reserves Like I knowthey were going to go.
Try to go into Fort Knox andsee if gold was there.
(12:15):
I haven't heard a report if thegold's there yet or not.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
I haven't heard it either.
My boss actually asked me toask about what if they go in,
and it's not, and it's all gone.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
It's me to ask about what if they go in and it's not?
And it's all gone, it's notthere.
What if they go on?
It's not there.
The investment demand,speculation in the market for
the traders that are speculating, and a safe hazing, a safe
haven.
You know, you know where people, stocks are too valuable, so
they run to gold, those are likethe 10 factors that actually
affect the price of gold.
And, like I always tell people,it's even like from that
(12:45):
standpoint, even if you fix fiveof them, they're still or teal
with five of them, five of themare still out there running wild
.
So what happens is and after Iused to say this, I used to say
and there's one thing thatalways happens If somebody fires
a missile, all bets are off.
So if someone fires a missile,how does that change the gold
(13:05):
market?
And then, believe it or not,after I said it, after one of my
seminars, a missile was fired,one punched you in another.
Gold went up that day $50, okay,right away, and by the next day
it returned.
You know, so it's like what'sactually moving it.
So it's that volatile at thispoint.
You know, like I said, everyone of these little things that
(13:26):
I just listed are part of theinfluence, but what is really
the main driver?
I think was really what yourquestion was what was really the
main driver?
And I think it's all thedrivers, michael.
I think it's all of themFascinating, no matter where
you're coming from.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
You know you outlined , you're you outlined, you know
10, 10 points and out of the 10,I'd say like seven of them are
like real green lights right now, or or you know they're on full
blast and I guess you know thatdoes seem like it should cause
a goal to keep going up, butit's actually at the point, at
(14:04):
least for everybody all myfriends and my family I've
worked in jewelry long enoughthat they know that I'm in
jewelry and my parents actuallyasked me just the other day hey,
why is gold so high?
Because apparently it was on thenews and they're like, oh, it's
still going up and I guess Iwanted to ask, and I guess I
(14:47):
wanted to ask, with gold beingin the forefront of the news,
being in the limel in 2021, thatwhen it was in the spotlight,
it drove the price up while itwas in the spotlight.
In addition to the otherfactors you just outlined, Do
you think that that is also oneof the outside impacts that is
driving things forward?
Is that people are thinkingabout it and talking about it
more as an asset?
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Well, I think what happens is it's funny.
We come from the industry,right, we're coming from the
industry, so we think it's inthe forthright, we think it's
right there.
But, to be honest with you, theproblem is it's really not,
because what happens is back in2009 and 10, ok, gold price
going up was on cnbc bloombergevery hour of every day.
(15:25):
It was exploding.
The local news was talkingabout it, everything was talking
.
It was in paper, it was in thenewspapers with everything go
now, now move the, now go ahead.
12 years, 13 years.
I'm not sure it's in thespotlight as much to people
outside of our industry.
It is to us.
What happens is is if, even ifyou watch CNBC, if you're, if
(15:47):
you're home, if you have a homeoffice, or you got a computer in
your office and you're watchingand it's on a TV and stuff like
that, you'll see our bloomerslike that.
They don't talk about gold thatmuch at all in like an eight
hour day.
Now we do because we live it,we're taking phone calls from
customers and all that type ofstuff, and they're like because
we live it, we're taking phonecalls from customers and all
that type of stuff and they'relike where's it?
it's always like where's itgoing to go?
(16:07):
Should I sell or should I buy?
You know what I mean?
Those are the main questions,but I don't know if it's
prevalent to the public.
Yes, your parents asked youabout it and all that type of
stuff because they know you'rein the industry or stuff like
that.
But I talk to a lot ofretailers themselves.
We have a lot of retailcustomers, okay, and what
happens is, to be honest withyou, they're actually having a
(16:29):
great year and what happens isvery rarely is anyone really
asking about the goal price whenit comes to, and very rarely
are a lot of the retailersactually changing their price
structure on $100 going up or$100 going back or $200 going up
or back.
Now, the tariff situation,that's brand new.
So how that will affect it andall that stuff, because they're
(16:51):
actually buying.
But the gold price itselfusually what happens is bridal
controls, what 75% of the marketwhen it comes to jewelry, the
brides aren't asking how muchthe gold is.
So, again, they're looking atthe is, they're looking at the
ring, they're looking at thenatural diamond or the lab gold,
whatever they're going to use.
But what I see from theretailer standpoint is I see a
(17:17):
lot more.
I see it's more expensive tobuy gold, but also too is I
think what's happening is nowthat the gold price is so high
just like your parents asked andall that stuff I almost think
that there's a perceived value,that the jewelry is more
expensive now.
That that's why people areactually having a good year.
A lot of our customers arehaving a good year because it's
(17:38):
almost like one of those thingswhere you would think it would
go reverse like the gold priceis higher, like it's going to be
less and less.
We're not seeing it.
Now you could probably havesomeone doing a chat saying you
know we're taking a beating hereand all that stuff, but most of
the customers from high end tomiddle of the ground to like to
even the pawn shops they're notseeing it.
You know they're not.
(17:59):
The effect of the gold price isreally not changing a lot of
the buying habits of theconsumer and most jewelry
companies are actually having agood first three months of the
year.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Wow, and you know it's really an interesting
effect because, like you said,you know I would have expected
the perceived value of gold todrive down the attainability, if
that's even the perspective ofit, but it sounds like you know,
hey, gold is valuable and it'sup, and, like you said, brides
(18:31):
aren't asking you know what theprice of gold is, they just want
a ring.
I wanted to ask do you think,though, that this might have
knock-on effects in otheraspects, For example with custom
jewelry?
Do you find, or would youpredict, that, with the price of
gold, people only have acertain budget you know they
(18:51):
have X budget and if cost ofmaterial, especially when it
comes to the metal and not thecenter stone most likely is
eating up, instead of it costing70% of the value of the custom
jewelry project, it's now taking80% of the budget, Do you find
that that might have a negativeeffect on custom jewelers in the
(19:14):
future, or do you think thatthey'll just have more
opportunity to mark things up?
And people aren't asking aboutthe price of gold anyway, so
it's just going to be whateverit is.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
And I think that second point of yours is
actually more valid, and I thinkabout when you say the term
custom, custom Well, what doesthat say?
Custom, that means it'sespecially made just for you.
Okay, and really right, for,like all the software programs
that are out there now that theretail jewelers use that they're
designing a piece and thebrides are changing this stone
(19:46):
and changing this head and allthat stuff.
Well, you're customizing it.
At that point it's like goingto get a custom paint job on a
car, right, it's like, well,it's customized so they can
throw more margins in there andall that type of stuff.
They don't have to carry theinventory as much as they have
to, you know, because whathappens is everyone wants to,
everyone wants to, you know,design their own piece and all
(20:07):
that stuff.
And that's a big part of theissue too is, you know, when you
go back to the gold stuff, Iget gold's not unlimited.
So I think what people alwaysthink from the refining and all
that type of stuff like it's,you know that there's going to
be plenty of gold, there's goingto be plenty of silver, plenty
of platinum, plenty of palladiumout there.
You know, it's just like no,it's got to come.
It's either coming out of theground or it's coming.
(20:29):
Basically, using the terms, youknow we've been a United.
It's been a big promo ofrecycled metal.
A lot of our metals willrecycle.
Now you know there's a.
There's a big push in theindustry to strip the term
recycled and put repurposed,re-imagine, redefine.
That's when the language policeis getting involved and just
trying to change the term.
But at the end of the day it'salready above ground.
(20:50):
It's not going to disturb theearth anymore.
They're not going to create anymore issues in that point.
So the metal itself like it'sjust like one of the things that
comes in the gold industry,michael, right now is they want
a lot of certifications, thirdparty audits to say you're green
, you're clean, you're doing itright, yada, yada, yada.
(21:11):
The problem is where we atUnited used to have a compliance
department of one person.
Now it's up to seven, becausewhat happens is we have to grab
all this paperwork from everyone, have it all in a file, have it
all computerized.
So when we get audited by thesefirms that say that we're doing
the job the right way and allthat stuff, because that's what
(21:32):
our customers want, that whathappens is that we're covered.
Well, that also adds to thecost of the metal that we're
supplying to the manufacturerswho are then making it for the
wholesaler and to the retail.
So I go back when you summarizeit all.
I just don't think the metal'sa big play when it comes to
customs at all custom at allbecause also too, you can go
(21:54):
from gold to platinum.
So you had gold at 3000 andplatinum at a thousand let's say
just on let's say, on wedding,on engagement rings, you can.
You can do that by putting yourmetal costs in.
The third, you know 80% of the80% of the market is gold and
probably only 20% is likeplatinum.
So platinum's always got a longway to go versus the gold.
(22:15):
Market owns like 80% of thebridal and all that type of
stuff from the yellow and thewhite.
So I think what happens is is.
I just don't see that the priceof gold is really affecting the
retailer from the customer.
Now there might be a bunch ofretailers that come on and just
blow my theory away, but I justdon't feel it.
(22:37):
You know what happens is is.
You know I'm gonna take, I'mgonna borrow something from
someone who once said remember,jewelry is only bought for three
reasons in the world love, lustor guilt oh nice, let's do that
, that's good, every piece ofjewelry fits in one of those
categories and sometimes,depending on how much trouble
you're in, it can fit in two ofthose categories.
(22:59):
So that's um.
So that's if you define jewelryas as what it is.
You know, enjoying the UnitedStates is different than you
know the gold when it factorsinto the jewelry, versus like
overseas, like in India and allthat type of stuff.
You know, I have five guys thatwork for me in India that run
around and you know the gold'sbought and the jewelry's bought
(23:20):
there as as celebrations foreverything.
They have, you know,celebrations and they buy gold
for their children.
They buy, you know, gold fortheir, for their spouses, and
all that stuff.
In the US it's never been likethat.
Jewelry is barely given onValentine's, christmas, mother's
Day, maybe a religious holiday.
It could be a bar mitzvah, itcould be a christening, it could
(23:43):
be a communion, anything likethat, a confirmation.
It just isn't pushed here asmuch as it is overseas when it
comes to the gift giving portionof it.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Wow, you know that's a really illuminating kind of
perspective on it and I thinkyou're I really appreciate you
sharing your expertise.
All right, everybody, we'regoing to take a quick break and
hear a word from our sponsor.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Hey everyone, jason from Punchmark here.
Are you ready to take youronline presence to the next
level?
If so, then I invite you tojoin us for our annual education
workshop in Charlotte, northCarolina, where you'll gain
expert insights, hands-ontraining and actionable
strategies to grow your businessonline.
This exclusive event isdesigned just for jewelers like
(24:31):
you, covering everything fromwebsite best practices and
e-commerce strategies to digitalmarketing and customer
engagement.
Plus, you'll have the chance tonetwork with industry experts
and fellow jewelers who shareyour passion for success.
Join us, may 18th to the 20th.
Limited spots are available, sodon't miss this opportunity to
(24:51):
refine your digital strategy andset your business up for
success.
Register now at punchmarkcomslash workshop and secure your
spot today.
Again, that's punchmarkcomslash workshop.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
And now back to the show.
Back to the show and we're back.
I wanted to ask I'm alwaysfascinated with these I guess,
unrelated effects that connectindustries.
(25:27):
For example, there's this termcalled trash pop.
Trash pop is a genre of musicthat's epitomized by Kesha and
T-Pain a couple of these peoplethat were really popular during
the well for, but it wasfascinating to see the
(25:50):
connection.
Nowadays they're seeing anincrease in trash pop and I was
wondering if we will also seethese connections between other
industries, like jewelry, forexample.
If we might be having, withthis increase in tariffs,
increase in speculation in themarket, things like that, will
(26:11):
it affect jewelry in a similarway as what it did in 2008 and
2009?
I was too young to be buyingjewelry back then.
What trends were you seeingback in 2008 and 2009 around
jewelry, and do you think wewill see similar trends in the
coming years or a few years if arecession shows itself?
Speaker 3 (26:37):
In 2008, 2009 and 10, .
The biggest thing that happenedis the gold market going up
actually probably saved theindustry.
What happens is everyone wentto we Buy Gold.
So I always tell people.
You know what happens.
And the problem is a lot ofretailers turned into pawn shops
Because what happens?
It was the only way traffic wascoming in the store.
(26:59):
They had big signs we Buy Gold.
Someone paid cash, someone paidchecks, someone gave account
credit, because I always toldpeople as people were walking.
As a customer walking into aretail store, it's so much
harder for me to get you to buysomething versus if you're
coming in with some scrap goldor whatever like that, for some
necklaces and earrings that arebroken.
(27:19):
It was so much easier for me totake that gold and give you
money.
So what happens is that pointsaved a lot of retail stores
because before that, in sevenand eight, you know, the market
really wasn't selling a lot.
There really wasn't a lot ofjewelry being.
You know it was.
It was still kind of findingits own way as gold price was
increasing because it got tooexpensive.
People got, people got tooexpensive.
(27:41):
I mean, gold got expensive.
So then what happens is itflipped it and everyone started
selling their gold.
So a lot of jewelers were ableto make a lot of money during
that time, where some of themspent it and had a good time,
but some of them put into newstore design, maybe a second
location.
Some of them socked that moneythey made for a rainy day.
(28:02):
Some of them bought more oftheir own inventory.
So that trend back then calledthe trash pop trend, or like you
just said, actually helped theindustry tremendously, you know.
And so what happens is is youforecast it now?
You, now you bring it to whereit is right now like trash pop.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
I'm hoping I'm talking about nickelback either
no, no, it's more like it's anindicator because it was so
popular at the same time.
But what you're talking aboutwith how often can you walk into
a store and have the store giveyou money?
Not very often, but we're seeing, actually related to that, a
huge rise.
I actually just did an episodepretty recently about one of our
(28:44):
recent guests and sponsors,National Rarities.
They do these estate buyingevents and they from when I've
spoken with retailers who havedone these events, they say it's
very invigorating for theirclient base because it brings in
new clients that have neverbeen in the store before and it
also gives them the opportunityto remarket and have them sign
(29:07):
the check back to the store for,you know, X percent or
something like that, which is awin-win-win for the customer,
the retailer and also nationalrarities, because everybody is
pleased with the end result.
But I'm curious to see if thatis kind of it seems like we're
kind of following a lot of thesame steps, especially with
(29:30):
what's going on with gold.
It's beyond my understandingsome of the times, but for when
I don't understand something I'mtrying my hardest to look at
past examples to see if I cankind of find the roadmap that's
already sort of played out andit sounds like there are sort of
things that we can infer fromin in a historical past national
(29:53):
rarity is very good, very goodcompany.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
You're very good.
I know, I know them well and um, what they're doing is now it's
no different than what happenedin 2008 and 2009.
So that model where you go intoa store, you set up something,
you don't know what's going tocome through the store, you know
what happens and literally it'salmost like a gold buying type
of situation buying gold they'rebringing in, they're picking up
(30:17):
a state drawer that's beingsold.
You know, someone's selling agrandmother's ring, not knowing
that the grandmother's ring hasa ton of value because it might
be an old Cartier ring, it mightbe an old Tiffany ring, that
actually it's almost like.
It's almost like vintage.
So what happens is in thecraftsmanship and all that stuff
comes back and it's like a win.
Like you said, it's a win-winfor everybody on that.
(30:38):
So I see the repeat of that.
Now I haven't seen gold partiescome back up, which is ironic,
because parties, what were those?
So what happens?
Back in nine and ten, you hadcompanies that really what
happens is is they would havesomeone you know house the gold
party for the neighborhood andthen what happens is they invite
everyone, everyone bring someof the gold.
They have someone there thatcould scratch, test and give,
(31:01):
give money for the people inJewish, so they actually have a
party, maybe serve some horsd'oeuvres and all that type of
stuff that went on prevalentlyback in 2009-10.
Wow, I still have a friend ofmine now that actually he does
gold buying events throughchurches and what happens is he
makes a deal with the church andthen what happens is they
(31:23):
promote it in the bulletin andthen what happens is he gives a
portion of that stuff that hebuys back to the church.
It's a win-win-win foreverybody, because what happens
is, like I said, they're justthose different things.
So I'm seeing that a little bitcome around Because also like
the gold parties and stuff backin 2010,.
(31:44):
That got very corporate.
I mean there were like that gotvery corporate.
I mean there were people thatwere going down to the Caribbean
.
They were going down theislands and what happens?
They rent out a hotel suite forthe weekend advertising the
local paper and bring this,bring this stuff, you know, and
people will be like and this isthis is really going B to C
versus like what's happening,like like now, stuff like that.
So they like a company,national rarity, sets up, sets
(32:04):
up at a retail spot and whathappens?
They advertise and stuff likethat.
And you're right, those, thosethat owner and those jewelers,
those sales people, that's athat's a time for them to.
What happens is if people arebringing in their scrap or
they're buying something andthey have an account credit and
then they can shop at the store.
That's a win-win all day long.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Yeah, what a really interesting concept, because I
could see how, yeah, you couldgo to these sort of sleepier
areas and people have leftoverstuff.
That sounds very enticing.
I could see how that would workout and I feel like that's,
yeah, very similar to whatNational Rarities is doing.
But just to kind of drive thishome, I want to ask two quick
(32:46):
questions at the end.
The first is with gold becomingmore popular and maybe gold
buying becoming more popularwith the increase in gold, I
wanted to ask are there any bestpractices or resources that you
can point people to in order tobe buying safely?
Because increasingly I've seenI see it all the time on the
(33:08):
internet where people buy reallygood knockoffs of the Canadian
maple leaf and it's actuallywhat lead.
That's gold plated and they usereally thick gold plating but
the core of it is lead.
Is there anything that youwould recommend people brush up
on if they are interested inmaybe getting involved in buying
(33:31):
gold?
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Gold magazine.
Exactly what you said Caveatemptor.
Right, let the buyer beware.
That's number one.
Listen, is there a lot of fakeout there?
Yes, also, too, is there a lotof under carotid material out
there?
Yes, what people don'tunderstand sometimes in some of
the talks that I give is10-carried, 14-carried and
18-carried.
In the US it basically has10-carried is like 41.67% gold,
(33:55):
14-carried is 58.34% and18-carried is 75%.
That is the gold percentages.
Now what happens in the USversus over in Europe?
We have tolerances, so thetolerances is you can still be
at 5803 and still be consideredplum gold, 14 karat.
What people don't understand isthe plum law went into effect
(34:15):
in the beginning of the 80s,which basically means anything
that was bought before that wasactually 13 karat or 13 and a
half karat, ok.
So what happens is you thinkit's 14 karat, then it's going
to be like 58% pure.
It's not.
Some of this stuff is like 54,53%.
So when you're buying and ifyou're buying tight, I'm always
(34:37):
a big believer is I always thinkthat in every business,
especially in the jewelrybusiness, we've all pushed the
margins down to nothing and themargins need to go the other way
.
What happens is I'm always abeliever is building your
buffers when you're buying andall that type of stuff.
Yes, there's some great testersout there.
You can go for everything froma simple scratch test now to
(34:58):
like electronic testers that youcan buy.
You can also buy little x-rayunits.
You know some are expensive,some aren't cheap.
I mean some other like peopletalk about the nitron gun where
it's like twenty thousanddollars but it can test the
piece.
It can.
It can penetrate a little bitof the plating.
There is a lot of heavierplated pieces out there.
You know that will actuallyfool.
(35:18):
You know certain scratch testsand all that stuff.
You know it's really.
Do your due diligence.
Don't trust, don't.
You know you have, don't justeyeball it and do the eyeball
test because that's that's someof the issues that come into
play.
Because, as a refiner, I alwaystell people when they send in
the lot, there's always what Icall the expectation.
They send in a bag of 14 karatscrap or 10 karat scrap and they
(35:40):
have already a number in theirhead yeah, it's, it's supposed
to be.
And then what happens is Ialways tell them we're the
report card, we're not usinglittle electronic test or a
scratch test, we're actuallygoing to melt it, we're going to
do fire assays, we're going todo ICPs, we're going to do
x-rays, we're going to tell youin science exactly what's in
there.
And I always equate to likeit's a customer's expectations.
(36:01):
So I always, I always equate tolike it's a customer's
expectations.
So I always.
I always use what I call a lotof my slides.
I use what's called thehamburger ad, where you see on,
you see on Burger King and outwhatever, where you are in the
country, mcdonald's, and alsoyou see the picture of the
perfect burger.
Yeah, it looks great.
Yeah, you know, as I knowMichael, go into that restaurant
(36:23):
and it looks nothing like that.
Yeah, I'm like it's theexpectation versus the reality.
So I'm always trying to saywhat happens is to make sure,
when you're buying whether it bea retail store, you're going to
start a gold buying operation,all that type of stuff that you
have the right buffers and theright education, just like you
were asking.
There's some great books onAmazon.
(36:44):
There's a real good one writtenby actually a gentleman by the
name of Ralph Amador, and whathappens is it's about gold
buying techniques.
It's an easy read and once youget it on Amazon and, believe it
or not, if you actually Googlemy name on Amazon, it'll
actually come up that book.
That book will actuallyshowcase the whole gold buying
thing, from how it started toall the equipment that's out
(37:06):
there, how it's tested.
You know the different pitfallsand all that stuff.
So there is some, there is someliterature out there and
obviously the internet.
You know there's a lot ofpeople who are teaching some of
the websites and all that typeof stuff.
But I'm always like, if you'regoing to buy, you know, I, I
used also, I also use the theused car valuation on KBB.
Hey, I also used the used carvaluation on KBB.
(37:26):
Hey, we're going to trade in acar.
I looked up online before Iwent to the dealership my car is
worth $13,000.
That's what it said tradingvalue is.
Then you get to the dealer andthey're like we're giving you 11
.
Yeah, but the internet said itwas 13.
Yeah, but what we're willing togive you is 11.
, just because something'svalued a certain way.
(37:46):
Way, you got to make sure thatyou're doing the the right
amount of testing and all thatstuff and just I'd say, always
put your buffers in there Ireally, I really do agree, and
you got to make your,everybody's got to make their
scratch, you know.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
So, I guess, just just to kind of round it out
right now, when we started this,uh, this interview, uh, the
price of gold was at $30.55.
It is now $30.44.
So it's gone down 11.
Now I guess, david, if you hadto make a prediction
professionally, maybe do youthink that gold will continue to
(38:19):
rise in the coming months oryear?
Speaker 3 (38:23):
Or is that not?
Speaker 1 (38:24):
something you would speculate?
Speaker 3 (38:25):
on.
I think in 2025, we're going tohit 3,500.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
3,500,.
Wow, that would be pretty crazy.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
What happens is remember, it builds steps, the
way it has to do.
What I tell people all the timeis you know gold gets to 28,.
Then she builds to 29,.
She'll fall back down, like itbuilds its base and it moves the
base up and it moves the baseup and it moves the base up.
When you blow through a coupleof price, like a couple hundred
dollars, really quickly, you'regoing to have a pullback.
(38:54):
It just doesn't accelerate thatquickly.
So you're going to have apullback, but the trend is going
up.
The trend's been going up for along time.
Just pull up a graph.
Go to Kitco.
Everyone knows what Kitco is.
Go to Kitco.
You can see the price of gold.
You can put in a long chart of20 years or five years or one
month.
You can see the base buildingup.
So that's really what's goingto happen, or that's what's
happening.
Well, I believe.
(39:14):
Could it go back down?
I don't think you'll ever goback below $2,500.
I think the base at $2,500 iswell built and well supported
and I think that is also at 28.
At 3,000, it's still messingaround.
I think last week it went ashigh as 3,159 or something like
that.
So 3,159, if that's high andyou're down to what it's already
(39:37):
fallen like $140.
Speaker 4 (39:39):
You know what?
Speaker 3 (39:39):
I'm saying, but it's building its base and it's going
to continue the climb.
Now it might hit 3,500 a coupletimes.
It might hit it once and fallback down, but the trend right
now on gold price is on theincrease and I equate it to gas.
So what happens?
Remember people used to freakout when gas was $3.
They didn't want the $4 agallon.
People like they traded intheir SUVs and they want more
(40:02):
hybrid and smaller cars.
Now what happens is people $4gas doesn't even bug them
anymore, like it's part of theequation.
Now they'll get spooked if itgets to $5, right, I mean
obviously in California anddifferent places it's a little
different, but for the most ofthe norm, if it gets to $5,
people will once again feel Ihave less money in my pocket and
(40:23):
all that type of stuff.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
I think that's a lot like the gold price Once it
reaches a certain thing, peopledon't get spooked by it.
David, I can honestly say thisis one of the most interesting
episodes I've ever done.
I really appreciate you sharingyour expertise.
This is something that's verytopical, but something I'm going
to be following along probablyfor the next bunch of years if
it continues this crazy run.
I really can't thank you enough.
So, david, you said you have abook on Amazon, and if people
(40:50):
were to just Google DavidSiminski on Amazon, they'll be
able to find your manual.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
It's a book written by an associate of mine, ralph
Amador, but it's a great bookwhen it comes to just the
intricates of buying gold,buying silver, buying platinum
and palladium.
So it's a great book when itcomes to the just the the
intricates of buying gold,buying silver, buying platinum
and palladium.
So it's a.
It's an easy read.
It's I think it's like $24, nocut here.
I don't get a spiff or anythinglike that.
So it's just the point of just,if you're looking to get into
(41:17):
it or questioning, or a goodsales training tool for your
associates.
It's something you shouldconsider.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
I appreciate that and I'll try to link that in the
show notes below.
But thank you again, david, Ireally appreciate it.
Everybody, yeah, just be smartout there, buyer beware, and
just maybe write in.
Tell me if you're getting moreinto gold.
I'd love to hear.
Thank you again, david,everybody.
We'll be back next week,tuesday, with another episode.
Cheers everybody, bye.
All right, everybody.
(41:50):
That's the end of the show.
Thanks so much for listening.
My guest this week was DavidSminski and he's a refiner with
over 32 years in the jewelryindustry.
He was a really great guest.
This episode was brought to youby Punchmark and produced and
hosted by me, michael Burpo.
This episode was edited by PaulSuarez with music by Ross
Cockrum.
Don't forget to rate thepodcast on Spotify and Apple
(42:13):
Podcasts and leave us feedbackon punchmarkcom slash loop.
That's L-O-U-P-E.
Thanks.
We'll be back next week,tuesday, with another episode.
Cheers, bye.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.