October 15, 2024 • 23 mins
In this episode we dive into the controversial world of "spirit tech" as we explore the cutting-edge intersection of technology and spirituality. From psychedelic research to brain-stimulating headbands, discover how science is pushing the boundaries of consciousness and spiritual experiences. But at what cost?
Key Topics Explored
- The rise of "spirit tech" and its potential to democratize spiritual experiences
- Parallels between psychedelic substances and new technological devices
- Ethical concerns and potential risks of on-demand spiritual experiences
- The impact on personal growth and authentic spiritual journeys
- Balancing technological advancement with mindful implementation
Whether you're a tech enthusiast, spiritual seeker, or simply curious about the future of human consciousness, this episode offers a fascinating glimpse into a world where technology meets spirit. Join us as we unpack the promises and perils of this emerging frontier.
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Intro and Outro music: Inspiring Morning by Playsound
Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only. It is not intended to be treated as psychological treatment or to replace the need for psychological treatment.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tatiana (00:00):
Welcome to the Integrated Wisdom Podcast.
I am your host, Tatyana DaSilva.
Join me as we discuss what itmeans to live an integrated life
and explore ways for you tocreate a life filled with
greater meaning, peace, andconnection by integrating the
wisdom of spirituality,psychology, Neuroscience,
(00:26):
Epigenetics and EnergyPsychology are hoped to empower
you to create deeper and moreloving connections with yourself
and others, whilst also pavingthe way for humanity at large to
be reimagined and inspired tobecome the very best version of
itself.
(00:48):
Hello, and welcome to theintegrated wisdom podcast.
Thank you so much for joining mefor yet another week.
I want to start this week byapologizing profusely.
For not publishing an episodelast week, which would have been
my knowmal schedule.
Unfortunately, I was actuallyquite unwell.
And voiceless.
(01:10):
And because I don't alwaysRecord episodes in advance, it
meant that I wasn't able torecord an episode because I
couldn't have couldn't speak atall.
For the first few days of theweek.
So I appreciate your patiencewith me.
So this week I want to talk alittle bit about.
Some of the ways in which we caninduce spiritual experiences
(01:36):
through external means.
It is already.
Widely understood.
That there are certainsubstances that can facilitate a
person's ability to connect witha spiritual experience or
mystical experience.
Mainly psychedelic substances.
(01:57):
So we know that for example,DMT, which is a naturally
occurring chemical, both in thebrain.
But can be found.
In, in some types of plants.
Can elicit experiences ofconnection with feelings of
oneness and feelings oftranscendence and other types of
(02:18):
spiritual experiences.
As well as other types ofpsychedelic substances, like
psilocybin or mushrooms.
There's A few different types ofpsychedelic substances that can
be enhancers and gateways forexperiencing a spiritual
(02:39):
connection or mysticalexperience.
Like a dissolution of the selfThat feeling of
interconnectedness thatsometimes we can experience.
When we're having spiritualexperiences.
Or even just these really deepknowing or insights that there
is something else going on.
Behind the scenes of what we'reseeing every day.
(03:00):
Right.
Like the life is actuallyhappening in a bigger context
that we don't see.
So there's, there's a lot ofresearch that has been done on
psychedelic substances.
That demonstrate the ability forthem to elicit these sorts of
experiences for people.
And therefore there's a lot ofappeal there for some people to
be able to utilize those.
Those substances in order toaccess.
(03:22):
These experiences, particularlythose that can have a healing
effect.
You know, it's not unheard offor people to engage in
Ayahuasca rituals, for example.
which is essentially to DMT.
Which can be used to facilitatea connection with spirit, what
they perceive to be spirit.
(03:42):
Or a spiritual connection, butalso you can have I guess.
an impact on helping a persontranscend some of their
suffering.
It's not uncommon for people tohave had Ayahuasca experiences
and have felt healed from traumaor being able to, you know,
break free from long patterns ofdepression or anxiety.
(04:04):
Sometimes even addiction.
And so it's one of the reasonswhy.
Oh, a lot of research has beendone to demonstrate some of the
benefits that could be achievedthrough these substances.
So much so that now there areclinical protocols to be able to
assist people with theseprocesses or healing processes.
(04:27):
In a controlled and safeenvironment.
It's been documented to be veryeffective for PTSD in some
cases.
Chronic depression orintractable depression that
doesn't respond to two othertypes of treatment or some types
of addiction.
And so I think in thosecontexts, it can be really,
really helpful.
(04:47):
You can certainly enhance thework that we do clinically.
Though it's still very muchearly days.
It, even though it's showing alot of promise, the protocol
around this is still very, verystrict.
And it's not something that'swidely available.
And still very much in, in, uh,our research kind of phase.
Though that is fast, fastevolving.
(05:09):
But what I wanted to talk abouttoday.
Is that on the back of some ofthis knowledge that's been
accumulated over decades aboutthe benefits of.
Psychedelic substances onenhancing people's experience
with their spirituality andconnecting to that.
That source of wisdom andcomfort and deep compassion.
(05:34):
There has been this wave oftechnological advances that have
been looking at how to integratetechnology or devices.
To assist individuals to havethese experiences.
Without the use of substances.
So one of the things that, uh,psychedelic research has done is
(05:57):
it has started to help peoplePA.
Understand.
Certain elements of the brainthat are involved in these
experiences.
Now it's still too early.
To be able to say.
That these parts of the brainelicit these experiences, but
they're certainly implicated insome way.
So we know that to be the case.
(06:18):
Based on an abundance ofresearch that's been shown done
to map different types,different your processes in the
brain when people are under theinfluence of these substances.
And so what some of thesetechnological companies have
been doing.
And they combine scientists andengineers and software
engineers.
They've been creating differenttypes of tools.
(06:42):
that can, I guess, in interactwith the brain in the known
areas of the brain that are.
Implicated in the experience ofspiritual or mystical
encounters.
So it's, it's been actuallydubbed spirit tech.
(07:03):
And it's an emerging technologythat is already available out
there.
So there are these headbands,for example, that are available.
that is a brain sensing headbandcalled muse.
That is essentially providing anEEG type neurofeedback
(07:24):
experience to guide the braininto meditative states.
That will be very, verydifficult to, to get into
without lots and lots ofpractice meditating.
So this headband already exists.
Right.
And there's also other types ofheadsets.
That are also designed to guidepeople through meditative
(07:46):
practices, through electricalbrain stimulation.
That again are designed tostimulate, interact with parts
of the brain that are known tobe involved in.
These transcendent experiencespeople can achieve through
meditation or psychedelicsubstances.
(08:06):
And what was when I was readingabout this research, it, I found
it both.
I guess curious and exciting,but at the same time, A little
bit scary.
Because you know what we knowfrom psychedelic research, for
example, Is that psychedelicsubstances are extremely
suggestible.
(08:26):
And so the mindset of the personwhen they're taking the
substance, as well as theenvironment that they're in.
Has a direct impact on the typeof experience that the person
has.
So if the person's alreadyfeeling a little bit anxious,
they're in an environment that'sa little bit chaotic.
The likelihood that they'regoing to have a terrible or
(08:48):
negative or scary experiencewith the psychedelic drug.
Is is much higher.
Then, if they were in a Reallycalm, relaxing, nurturing
environment.
Where they're more likely tohave a positive experience.
So we know that from psychedelicsubstances, right.
And that's why the protocolsthat have been developed around
(09:09):
using these there.
Therapeutic context are allabout really preparing people's
mindset for the experience.
Creating a really safe nurturingkind of.
cocooning kind of environmentfor people to be able to enter
that experience feeling reallynurtured, but feeling very safe
(09:30):
and contained.
As well as a process afterwardsof integrating what comes up for
them in that experience.
So that they can get the mostbenefits from it.
And there's no risk of thembeing left, fragmented, or, or
potentially having other typesof psychological harm.
Arise as a result of doing thosesubstances.
(09:51):
So we know that the researchthat's available is looking at
that or like has alreadyidentified that as a, as an
issue.
Not to mention that we know aswell from research that
individuals who have avulnerability.
To, to schizophrenia or thetypes of psychotic illnesses.
Need to be a bit careful withhow they engage with these types
of substances, because in, youknow, sometimes in, in the wrong
(10:16):
context or.
If it's not really carefullymonitored for in-screen for
it's, it's been known forindividuals who have this
vulnerability to experiencetheir first psychotic break as a
result of taking the psychedelicsubstance.
Right.
And so when I think about thefact that yes, we're taking away
(10:37):
the substance component, whichas far as research has shown us,
he's actually, there's no realharm.
To the physiological interactionof these drugs and our system.
Unlike what some, some of thethings that we've been taught
along the way to kind of scareus away from using them.
The research is actually beingshown, showing that they are
very safe to use in fact, withthese caveats that I've just
(11:00):
mentioned.
And so I guess that's one of thearguments for why a
technological device would be abetter option than a substance,
because it's even safer.
There's no chemical.
Interaction in our bodieswhatsoever.
But at the same time, We don't,it's still very premature to
know what happens when the brainis interacted with was
(11:23):
stimulated directly in this way.
You know, Is it, is it possiblethat these, these devices could
have the same adverse impacts asthe substances themselves?
We don't know.
Right.
So I guess that's, that's alittle bit scary for me.
I think too.
Do you have the concept ofpeople just being able to go off
and buy a device, buy a headset.
(11:46):
You know, buy something thatthey can just use in the privacy
of their own home.
Without any guidance.
Without any, any real oversightthat has the potential to cause
them.
Uh, A harmful or scaryexperience.
I think that's, that's aconcern.
What are the ethics aroundmaking tools like this available
(12:07):
to people?
But I think even more than thatand this isn't that I've been
discussing with some colleaguesof mine in, in my membership,
just last week, we're talkingabout this.
What.
are the, I guess, theimplications for how people can
engage with their spiritualityand spiritual practices.
If we're starting to relegate itto, uh, kind of like on demand.
(12:32):
Externalized device that'striggering these experiences for
us.
You know, It raises a lot ofquestions, not just from the
ethical perspective, but evenfrom.
I guess an existential.
And, uh, Uh, psychopsychological perspective.
(12:53):
Right.
So, is it possible that in thisculture that we currently live
in, where everybody just wantsthe quick fix, right?
We just want to get.
The results that we want withoutthe hard work, without the
effort.
Can that have a negative impacton the way that we interact with
our spirituality?
(13:14):
Can it lead to us, taking it forgranted.
You know right now when weencounter these spiritual
experiences.
It has this capacity to betransformative, right.
And humbling.
And.
And exhilarating in some ways,largely because it's so
sporadic, right.
Even when we're.
(13:35):
Where we mastered the ability toconnect with spirit.
Through meditation or throughother types of practices.
It's still a wondrousexperience.
Every time it happens.
Because.
We can't always predict whatit's going to be like.
And you know, sometimes there'sno more deeply spiritual
(13:56):
experience than encountering abeautiful sunset or in, you
know, in the last week all theAuroras have been largely
active, and so encountering anatural phenomenon like that.
Right.
It has the capacity toimmediately elicit this deep
sense of spirituality andconnection to everything, to all
(14:16):
and.
If I have a device that can, cangenerate those feelings for me
on demand.
Every day.
Do we ever get, do we get to apoint where we become saturated
and we get over it?
I don't, I don't know.
These are just questions I'vebeen having in my mind.
Right.
It's very possible that itdoesn't then if anything, it
might lead us To access thebenefits of spirituality and
(14:38):
sustain them.
Right.
To be able to transcend some ofthe other things that get in the
way And so to be constantlyembodying compassion, because
they're so aware of thisinterconnectedness all the time.
Or we're able to transcend ourego or so much more easily.
As a result of having these,these experiences regularly,
these are all the questions thatI've been having racing through
(15:00):
my head.
You know, And so I would love tohear what you think.
So there's nothing conclusive atthe moment.
I just think it's interestingthat people are starting to go
down this way.
Right.
But there's, there's always thepotential with commercializing
anything for it to be abused.
Right?The, the leading Teamthat's been developing this
(15:22):
technology.
They report to becoming from analtruistic place, from a place
of service.
You know, they're very driven bythe fact that they know
connecting individuals to thespiritual essence.
All these spiritual experiences.
Has the potential to te.
Elevate our consciousness toelevate our connection with each
(15:45):
other.
And the way we interact in theworld with others.
Right?.
So it has potential to reallytransform life, as we know it.
But we also live in a capitalistsociety.
Right.
Where if people can turn thatprofit from anything.
They will.
And when there's potential forendless profit, there's
potential for endless abuse.
(16:07):
So there's a lot of questionsthat come up with something like
this.
Right.
But I guess I just wanted toshare with you guys that, you
know, That's where things aregoing.
Like there's clearly a.
A wave of awareness.
Taking over at the moment thatstarting to understand.
Not only the potential forhealing and.
(16:30):
societal improvement of inenhancing people's abilities to
connect with their spiritualessence.
But also.
There's this focus on trying toreally.
Guide people towards harnessingthat.
In, in the easiest, mostaccessible way possible.
(16:51):
Right so that it doesn't justbecome the realm of expert
meditators or yogis or.
Or.
People who live spirituality inyou now it starts to become
available for everybody.
So it's, so it's an excitingtime.
It's an exciting time to seewhat these developments And that
these developments arehappening.
(17:12):
And what potential learnings cancome from our understanding of
human consciousness.
You know, the, the way thatspirituality.
Interacts With how we are in theworld, how we show up.
In our role.
In our various roles in ourlives.
But there are definitely, Ithink some risk factors here
too.
(17:33):
Right.
There's there's a question ofwhether these, these experiences
are authentic at all.
Or whether they could lead tocomplacency around.
The work that needs to come.
Whilst we're here.
Those of you that have beenfollowing this podcast for
awhile will know that I talkabout.
(17:53):
The spiritual purpose for usbeing on earth or for us
incarnating in this planet isfor us to learn lessons, right?
We have to go through someexperiences.
Which often are veryuncomfortable challenging.
We have to interact with otherpeople and learn how to
transcend some of the morenegative.
Emotional and energetic statesas we work towards embodying or
(18:19):
achieving a state of embodyingunconditional love.
Pure unconditional love.
I think that's, that's thespiritual journey that we are
all on and yes, we're all ondifferent parts of the path.
Of that process.
But then with something likethis, do we want to just be
having spiritual experiencesfor.
(18:42):
For their own sake.
Right.
Is it just, is it just aboutfeeling bliss, feeling peace?
Does that rob us up from theopportunities that we have to
actually work through some ofour personal development stuff
that we're here to work on.
(19:02):
And is that a good thing?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Personally, I can see thetherapeutic benefits of
something like this.
Again, in terms of helpingpeople work through trauma
through other intractable mentalhealth conditions.
I think therapeutically in thatcontext, it has a benefit.
Absolutely.
(19:23):
It could be a really usefultool, much like, you know,
augmented reality has become areally useful tool.
In exposure therapy, work withclients in a clinical way.
But there's the potential for itto be abused.
And there's a potential for itto work against us in some ways
like social media has been shownnow to be doing for us right
(19:45):
when it first became when it wasfirst developed.
There was this real belief thatit was going to really connect
the world that we would be ableto be so much more connected and
feel so much more part of acommunity.
Right.
That was the initial, I think,envisioning of the role of
social media and the internetwould play in our lives.
(20:10):
But now we've had it around longenough to see the adverse
impacts that have happened.
As a result of these technologyand could they have foreseen
some of these impacts?
I don't know.
I I'm sure some people couldhave seen it coming or certainly
had enough warning that.
It was heading in that directionto be able to redirect it.
(20:31):
And didn't profit.
As we know.
But we now know it's causingirreparable damage to.
Our ability to focus, to sustainattention.
It's causing a lot of emotional,psychological harm to our young
people.
Uh, even though there's a lot ofbenefits that have come from.
From social media from theinternet.
(20:52):
I mean, I'm able to communicatewith you guys all over the
world.
From Australia.
Because of these advances,right.
But it's come at a really highcost.
And so it begs the question.
Are the benefits that atechnology like this.
Proposed to, to offer worth thepotential risks.
(21:13):
I'm not sure.
I think we're at a reallyinteresting.
Juncture.
Where there's a call for.
Pull these sorts of advances toreally have some ethical
accountability for the peopledeveloping these technologies to
have an ethical accountability.
For the impact.
And the risks that thesetechnologies pose.
(21:34):
So, so yeah, I just wanted toshare that with you.
If anyone out there has anyquestions or comments or
thoughts about this, I'd love tohear about it.
You know, you're welcome toreach out to me.
On Instagram, you can DM methere at integrated underscore
wisdom.
Or you're welcome to email me aswell at
hello@integratedwisdom.com.au.
(21:57):
So you can find me on either ofthose places.
And I would love to hear a yourthoughts on this.
Maybe I'm too conservative.
Maybe I'm too old school.
I'd love to hear.
What you all think about this?
But that is all I have for youthis?
week.
I am very grateful to have youhere again.
Thank you for joining me.
I hope you all have a lovelyweek.
(22:17):
And I look forward to speakingto you again.
So.
Thanks.
Bye.
Thank you for tuning in to thisepisode of Integrated Wisdom.
It is my sincere wish thattoday's episode may have
intrigued and inspired you toreclaim your power and step into
becoming more fully integratedspiritual beings.
(22:40):
New episodes are published everysecond Wednesday and I hope
you'll continue to join us as wedive deeper into what it means
to live an integrated life.
So if it feels aligned to you, Iinvite you to hit subscribe and
share it with others who youfeel may benefit too.
You may also find me onInstagram at integrated
underscore wisdom.
(23:02):
Remember each moment is anopportunity to embrace your
divine potential and create aworld that is more frequently
inspired.
So for now, stay connected, stayinspired and keep shining your
light into the world.
Welcome to the Integrated Wisdom Podcast.
I am your host, Tatyana DaSilva.
Join me as we discuss what itmeans to live an integrated life
and explore ways for you tocreate a life filled with
greater meaning, peace, andconnection by integrating the
wisdom of spirituality,psychology, Neuroscience,
(00:26):
Epigenetics and EnergyPsychology are hoped to empower
you to create deeper and moreloving connections with yourself
and others, whilst also pavingthe way for humanity at large to
be reimagined and inspired tobecome the very best version of
itself.
(00:48):
Hello, and welcome to theintegrated wisdom podcast.
Thank you so much for joining mefor yet another week.
I want to start this week byapologizing profusely.
For not publishing an episodelast week, which would have been
my knowmal schedule.
Unfortunately, I was actuallyquite unwell.
And voiceless.
(01:10):
And because I don't alwaysRecord episodes in advance, it
meant that I wasn't able torecord an episode because I
couldn't have couldn't speak atall.
For the first few days of theweek.
So I appreciate your patiencewith me.
So this week I want to talk alittle bit about.
Some of the ways in which we caninduce spiritual experiences
(01:36):
through external means.
It is already.
Widely understood.
That there are certainsubstances that can facilitate a
person's ability to connect witha spiritual experience or
mystical experience.
Mainly psychedelic substances.
(01:57):
So we know that for example,DMT, which is a naturally
occurring chemical, both in thebrain.
But can be found.
In, in some types of plants.
Can elicit experiences ofconnection with feelings of
oneness and feelings oftranscendence and other types of
(02:18):
spiritual experiences.
As well as other types ofpsychedelic substances, like
psilocybin or mushrooms.
There's A few different types ofpsychedelic substances that can
be enhancers and gateways forexperiencing a spiritual
(02:39):
connection or mysticalexperience.
Like a dissolution of the selfThat feeling of
interconnectedness thatsometimes we can experience.
When we're having spiritualexperiences.
Or even just these really deepknowing or insights that there
is something else going on.
Behind the scenes of what we'reseeing every day.
(03:00):
Right.
Like the life is actuallyhappening in a bigger context
that we don't see.
So there's, there's a lot ofresearch that has been done on
psychedelic substances.
That demonstrate the ability forthem to elicit these sorts of
experiences for people.
And therefore there's a lot ofappeal there for some people to
be able to utilize those.
Those substances in order toaccess.
(03:22):
These experiences, particularlythose that can have a healing
effect.
You know, it's not unheard offor people to engage in
Ayahuasca rituals, for example.
which is essentially to DMT.
Which can be used to facilitatea connection with spirit, what
they perceive to be spirit.
(03:42):
Or a spiritual connection, butalso you can have I guess.
an impact on helping a persontranscend some of their
suffering.
It's not uncommon for people tohave had Ayahuasca experiences
and have felt healed from traumaor being able to, you know,
break free from long patterns ofdepression or anxiety.
(04:04):
Sometimes even addiction.
And so it's one of the reasonswhy.
Oh, a lot of research has beendone to demonstrate some of the
benefits that could be achievedthrough these substances.
So much so that now there areclinical protocols to be able to
assist people with theseprocesses or healing processes.
(04:27):
In a controlled and safeenvironment.
It's been documented to be veryeffective for PTSD in some
cases.
Chronic depression orintractable depression that
doesn't respond to two othertypes of treatment or some types
of addiction.
And so I think in thosecontexts, it can be really,
really helpful.
(04:47):
You can certainly enhance thework that we do clinically.
Though it's still very muchearly days.
It, even though it's showing alot of promise, the protocol
around this is still very, verystrict.
And it's not something that'swidely available.
And still very much in, in, uh,our research kind of phase.
Though that is fast, fastevolving.
(05:09):
But what I wanted to talk abouttoday.
Is that on the back of some ofthis knowledge that's been
accumulated over decades aboutthe benefits of.
Psychedelic substances onenhancing people's experience
with their spirituality andconnecting to that.
That source of wisdom andcomfort and deep compassion.
(05:34):
There has been this wave oftechnological advances that have
been looking at how to integratetechnology or devices.
To assist individuals to havethese experiences.
Without the use of substances.
So one of the things that, uh,psychedelic research has done is
(05:57):
it has started to help peoplePA.
Understand.
Certain elements of the brainthat are involved in these
experiences.
Now it's still too early.
To be able to say.
That these parts of the brainelicit these experiences, but
they're certainly implicated insome way.
So we know that to be the case.
(06:18):
Based on an abundance ofresearch that's been shown done
to map different types,different your processes in the
brain when people are under theinfluence of these substances.
And so what some of thesetechnological companies have
been doing.
And they combine scientists andengineers and software
engineers.
They've been creating differenttypes of tools.
(06:42):
that can, I guess, in interactwith the brain in the known
areas of the brain that are.
Implicated in the experience ofspiritual or mystical
encounters.
So it's, it's been actuallydubbed spirit tech.
(07:03):
And it's an emerging technologythat is already available out
there.
So there are these headbands,for example, that are available.
that is a brain sensing headbandcalled muse.
That is essentially providing anEEG type neurofeedback
(07:24):
experience to guide the braininto meditative states.
That will be very, verydifficult to, to get into
without lots and lots ofpractice meditating.
So this headband already exists.
Right.
And there's also other types ofheadsets.
That are also designed to guidepeople through meditative
(07:46):
practices, through electricalbrain stimulation.
That again are designed tostimulate, interact with parts
of the brain that are known tobe involved in.
These transcendent experiencespeople can achieve through
meditation or psychedelicsubstances.
(08:06):
And what was when I was readingabout this research, it, I found
it both.
I guess curious and exciting,but at the same time, A little
bit scary.
Because you know what we knowfrom psychedelic research, for
example, Is that psychedelicsubstances are extremely
suggestible.
(08:26):
And so the mindset of the personwhen they're taking the
substance, as well as theenvironment that they're in.
Has a direct impact on the typeof experience that the person
has.
So if the person's alreadyfeeling a little bit anxious,
they're in an environment that'sa little bit chaotic.
The likelihood that they'regoing to have a terrible or
(08:48):
negative or scary experiencewith the psychedelic drug.
Is is much higher.
Then, if they were in a Reallycalm, relaxing, nurturing
environment.
Where they're more likely tohave a positive experience.
So we know that from psychedelicsubstances, right.
And that's why the protocolsthat have been developed around
(09:09):
using these there.
Therapeutic context are allabout really preparing people's
mindset for the experience.
Creating a really safe nurturingkind of.
cocooning kind of environmentfor people to be able to enter
that experience feeling reallynurtured, but feeling very safe
(09:30):
and contained.
As well as a process afterwardsof integrating what comes up for
them in that experience.
So that they can get the mostbenefits from it.
And there's no risk of thembeing left, fragmented, or, or
potentially having other typesof psychological harm.
Arise as a result of doing thosesubstances.
(09:51):
So we know that the researchthat's available is looking at
that or like has alreadyidentified that as a, as an
issue.
Not to mention that we know aswell from research that
individuals who have avulnerability.
To, to schizophrenia or thetypes of psychotic illnesses.
Need to be a bit careful withhow they engage with these types
of substances, because in, youknow, sometimes in, in the wrong
(10:16):
context or.
If it's not really carefullymonitored for in-screen for
it's, it's been known forindividuals who have this
vulnerability to experiencetheir first psychotic break as a
result of taking the psychedelicsubstance.
Right.
And so when I think about thefact that yes, we're taking away
(10:37):
the substance component, whichas far as research has shown us,
he's actually, there's no realharm.
To the physiological interactionof these drugs and our system.
Unlike what some, some of thethings that we've been taught
along the way to kind of scareus away from using them.
The research is actually beingshown, showing that they are
very safe to use in fact, withthese caveats that I've just
(11:00):
mentioned.
And so I guess that's one of thearguments for why a
technological device would be abetter option than a substance,
because it's even safer.
There's no chemical.
Interaction in our bodieswhatsoever.
But at the same time, We don't,it's still very premature to
know what happens when the brainis interacted with was
(11:23):
stimulated directly in this way.
You know, Is it, is it possiblethat these, these devices could
have the same adverse impacts asthe substances themselves?
We don't know.
Right.
So I guess that's, that's alittle bit scary for me.
I think too.
Do you have the concept ofpeople just being able to go off
and buy a device, buy a headset.
(11:46):
You know, buy something thatthey can just use in the privacy
of their own home.
Without any guidance.
Without any, any real oversightthat has the potential to cause
them.
Uh, A harmful or scaryexperience.
I think that's, that's aconcern.
What are the ethics aroundmaking tools like this available
(12:07):
to people?
But I think even more than thatand this isn't that I've been
discussing with some colleaguesof mine in, in my membership,
just last week, we're talkingabout this.
What.
are the, I guess, theimplications for how people can
engage with their spiritualityand spiritual practices.
If we're starting to relegate itto, uh, kind of like on demand.
(12:32):
Externalized device that'striggering these experiences for
us.
You know, It raises a lot ofquestions, not just from the
ethical perspective, but evenfrom.
I guess an existential.
And, uh, Uh, psychopsychological perspective.
(12:53):
Right.
So, is it possible that in thisculture that we currently live
in, where everybody just wantsthe quick fix, right?
We just want to get.
The results that we want withoutthe hard work, without the
effort.
Can that have a negative impacton the way that we interact with
our spirituality?
(13:14):
Can it lead to us, taking it forgranted.
You know right now when weencounter these spiritual
experiences.
It has this capacity to betransformative, right.
And humbling.
And.
And exhilarating in some ways,largely because it's so
sporadic, right.
Even when we're.
(13:35):
Where we mastered the ability toconnect with spirit.
Through meditation or throughother types of practices.
It's still a wondrousexperience.
Every time it happens.
Because.
We can't always predict whatit's going to be like.
And you know, sometimes there'sno more deeply spiritual
(13:56):
experience than encountering abeautiful sunset or in, you
know, in the last week all theAuroras have been largely
active, and so encountering anatural phenomenon like that.
Right.
It has the capacity toimmediately elicit this deep
sense of spirituality andconnection to everything, to all
(14:16):
and.
If I have a device that can, cangenerate those feelings for me
on demand.
Every day.
Do we ever get, do we get to apoint where we become saturated
and we get over it?
I don't, I don't know.
These are just questions I'vebeen having in my mind.
Right.
It's very possible that itdoesn't then if anything, it
might lead us To access thebenefits of spirituality and
(14:38):
sustain them.
Right.
To be able to transcend some ofthe other things that get in the
way And so to be constantlyembodying compassion, because
they're so aware of thisinterconnectedness all the time.
Or we're able to transcend ourego or so much more easily.
As a result of having these,these experiences regularly,
these are all the questions thatI've been having racing through
(15:00):
my head.
You know, And so I would love tohear what you think.
So there's nothing conclusive atthe moment.
I just think it's interestingthat people are starting to go
down this way.
Right.
But there's, there's always thepotential with commercializing
anything for it to be abused.
Right?The, the leading Teamthat's been developing this
(15:22):
technology.
They report to becoming from analtruistic place, from a place
of service.
You know, they're very driven bythe fact that they know
connecting individuals to thespiritual essence.
All these spiritual experiences.
Has the potential to te.
Elevate our consciousness toelevate our connection with each
(15:45):
other.
And the way we interact in theworld with others.
Right?.
So it has potential to reallytransform life, as we know it.
But we also live in a capitalistsociety.
Right.
Where if people can turn thatprofit from anything.
They will.
And when there's potential forendless profit, there's
potential for endless abuse.
(16:07):
So there's a lot of questionsthat come up with something like
this.
Right.
But I guess I just wanted toshare with you guys that, you
know, That's where things aregoing.
Like there's clearly a.
A wave of awareness.
Taking over at the moment thatstarting to understand.
Not only the potential forhealing and.
(16:30):
societal improvement of inenhancing people's abilities to
connect with their spiritualessence.
But also.
There's this focus on trying toreally.
Guide people towards harnessingthat.
In, in the easiest, mostaccessible way possible.
(16:51):
Right so that it doesn't justbecome the realm of expert
meditators or yogis or.
Or.
People who live spirituality inyou now it starts to become
available for everybody.
So it's, so it's an excitingtime.
It's an exciting time to seewhat these developments And that
these developments arehappening.
(17:12):
And what potential learnings cancome from our understanding of
human consciousness.
You know, the, the way thatspirituality.
Interacts With how we are in theworld, how we show up.
In our role.
In our various roles in ourlives.
But there are definitely, Ithink some risk factors here
too.
(17:33):
Right.
There's there's a question ofwhether these, these experiences
are authentic at all.
Or whether they could lead tocomplacency around.
The work that needs to come.
Whilst we're here.
Those of you that have beenfollowing this podcast for
awhile will know that I talkabout.
(17:53):
The spiritual purpose for usbeing on earth or for us
incarnating in this planet isfor us to learn lessons, right?
We have to go through someexperiences.
Which often are veryuncomfortable challenging.
We have to interact with otherpeople and learn how to
transcend some of the morenegative.
Emotional and energetic statesas we work towards embodying or
(18:19):
achieving a state of embodyingunconditional love.
Pure unconditional love.
I think that's, that's thespiritual journey that we are
all on and yes, we're all ondifferent parts of the path.
Of that process.
But then with something likethis, do we want to just be
having spiritual experiencesfor.
(18:42):
For their own sake.
Right.
Is it just, is it just aboutfeeling bliss, feeling peace?
Does that rob us up from theopportunities that we have to
actually work through some ofour personal development stuff
that we're here to work on.
(19:02):
And is that a good thing?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Personally, I can see thetherapeutic benefits of
something like this.
Again, in terms of helpingpeople work through trauma
through other intractable mentalhealth conditions.
I think therapeutically in thatcontext, it has a benefit.
Absolutely.
(19:23):
It could be a really usefultool, much like, you know,
augmented reality has become areally useful tool.
In exposure therapy, work withclients in a clinical way.
But there's the potential for itto be abused.
And there's a potential for itto work against us in some ways
like social media has been shownnow to be doing for us right
(19:45):
when it first became when it wasfirst developed.
There was this real belief thatit was going to really connect
the world that we would be ableto be so much more connected and
feel so much more part of acommunity.
Right.
That was the initial, I think,envisioning of the role of
social media and the internetwould play in our lives.
(20:10):
But now we've had it around longenough to see the adverse
impacts that have happened.
As a result of these technologyand could they have foreseen
some of these impacts?
I don't know.
I I'm sure some people couldhave seen it coming or certainly
had enough warning that.
It was heading in that directionto be able to redirect it.
(20:31):
And didn't profit.
As we know.
But we now know it's causingirreparable damage to.
Our ability to focus, to sustainattention.
It's causing a lot of emotional,psychological harm to our young
people.
Uh, even though there's a lot ofbenefits that have come from.
From social media from theinternet.
(20:52):
I mean, I'm able to communicatewith you guys all over the
world.
From Australia.
Because of these advances,right.
But it's come at a really highcost.
And so it begs the question.
Are the benefits that atechnology like this.
Proposed to, to offer worth thepotential risks.
(21:13):
I'm not sure.
I think we're at a reallyinteresting.
Juncture.
Where there's a call for.
Pull these sorts of advances toreally have some ethical
accountability for the peopledeveloping these technologies to
have an ethical accountability.
For the impact.
And the risks that thesetechnologies pose.
(21:34):
So, so yeah, I just wanted toshare that with you.
If anyone out there has anyquestions or comments or
thoughts about this, I'd love tohear about it.
You know, you're welcome toreach out to me.
On Instagram, you can DM methere at integrated underscore
wisdom.
Or you're welcome to email me aswell at
hello@integratedwisdom.com.au.
(21:57):
So you can find me on either ofthose places.
And I would love to hear a yourthoughts on this.
Maybe I'm too conservative.
Maybe I'm too old school.
I'd love to hear.
What you all think about this?
But that is all I have for youthis?
week.
I am very grateful to have youhere again.
Thank you for joining me.
I hope you all have a lovelyweek.
(22:17):
And I look forward to speakingto you again.
So.
Thanks.
Bye.
Thank you for tuning in to thisepisode of Integrated Wisdom.
It is my sincere wish thattoday's episode may have
intrigued and inspired you toreclaim your power and step into
becoming more fully integratedspiritual beings.
(22:40):
New episodes are published everysecond Wednesday and I hope
you'll continue to join us as wedive deeper into what it means
to live an integrated life.
So if it feels aligned to you, Iinvite you to hit subscribe and
share it with others who youfeel may benefit too.
You may also find me onInstagram at integrated
underscore wisdom.
(23:02):
Remember each moment is anopportunity to embrace your
divine potential and create aworld that is more frequently
inspired.
So for now, stay connected, stayinspired and keep shining your
light into the world.
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