October 22, 2024 • 44 mins
In this month's instalment of 'Soulful Chats', I have a conversation with Dr. Hayley D Quinn about her journey through incorporating spirituality into her work as both a clinical psychologist and business coach. After experiencing significant burnout while juggling single parenthood, university studies, and multiple jobs, Hayley discovered the transformative power of self-compassion and mindfulness.
Episode Highlights:
- How mindfulness became Hayley's gateway to spiritual exploration
- The role of self-compassion in preventing burnout
- Balancing professional boundaries with authentic spiritual expression
- The importance of trusting inner wisdom in business decisions
Key Insights:
- Starting with small moments of mindfulness can lead to deeper spiritual connection
- Living authentically allows for a more fulfilling life and can help prevent burnout
- Embracing who you are fully leads to better health and professional outcomes
- The value of creating businesses aligned with personal values and wellbeing
Book Recommendations:
- Poetry by Hafez and Rumi
- "Man's Search for Meaning" by Viktor Frankl
- "The Mindful Path to Self-Compassion" by Christopher Germer
About Dr. Hayley D Quinn:
Dr. Quinn is a compassionate, person-centered Business Coach and Clinical Psychologist helping women entrepreneurs transform their relationships with themselves and their businesses. After overcoming burnout, she now guides women to embrace their authenticity and build thriving businesses aligned with their values.
Connect with Dr. Hayley:
- Website: https://drhayleydquinn.com
- Instagram: https://instagram.com/drhayleydquinn/
- Facebook: https://facebook.com/drhayleydquinnbrisbane
- LinkedIn: Linkedin.com/in/dr-hayley-d-quinn-43386533
- Podcast: "https://drhayleydquinn.com/podcast/
- Waiting list for Welcome to Self®: Time to Thrive Group Business Coaching https://drhayleydquinn.myflodesk.com/timetothrive
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Intro and Outro music: Inspiring Morning by Playsound
Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only. It is not intended to be treated as psychological treatment or to replace the need for psychological treatment.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tatiana (00:00):
Welcome to the Integrated Wisdom Podcast.
I am your host, Tatyana DaSilva.
Join me as we discuss what itmeans to live an integrated life
and explore ways for you tocreate a life filled with
greater meaning, peace, andconnection by integrating the
wisdom of spirituality,psychology, Neuroscience,
(00:26):
Epigenetics and EnergyPsychology are hoped to empower
you to create deeper and moreloving connections with yourself
and others, whilst also pavingthe way for humanity at large to
be reimagined and inspired tobecome the very best version of
itself.
(00:49):
Hello and welcome to theintegrated wisdom podcast.
Thank you so much for joining mefor yet another week.
I am very excited to be bringingthe very popular monthly segment
of soulful chats once again.
And today I have a dearcolleague who is working in the
space of helping women with thebusinesses overcome burnout
(01:12):
through self compassion andwe've come together through our
mutual interests ofspirituality, we've had some
very interesting conversationsaround our spiritual experiences
and spiritual perspectives.
And I thought she would be theperfect person to have on the
podcast and in this segment.
I'm very excited to welcome Dr.
Hayley D Quinn.
(01:33):
She's a compassionate, a patientcentered, Business coach and
clinical psychologist who helpswomen entrepreneurs transform
their relationships withthemselves and their businesses.
After overcoming burnout in herown career, Hayley discovered
the power of self compassion andnow guides women to step out of
the shadows, embrace theirauthenticity, and build thriving
(01:53):
businesses aligned with theirvalues.
With a blend of empathy andpractical skills, she empowers
her clients to stop playingsmall, Take up space and create
a life and business thatnourishes them.
So welcome Hayley.
I'm so excited to have you here.
Hayley (02:08):
Oh, hi.
And thank you so much for havingme on the podcast.
Tatiana (02:13):
So I know I gave a really brief overview of the
wonderful work that you've beendoing, but I'd love for you to
share a little bit more aboutyourself and, you know, what you
do.
Hayley (02:23):
Yeah.
So like you say, I'm a, I'm abusiness coach and clinical
psychologist.
I've been doing clinicalpsychology for a long time.
And in the past few years, alsodoing business coaching, which
has kind of evolved from thework that I was doing with my
supervisees who started askingme how they could also create
businesses.
that allowed them to thrive.
(02:44):
You mentioned I'd had asignificant burnout, which I
had.
I was at university as a singleparent and did my bachelor and
honors and then a PhD.
And at the time was working, youknow, up to three jobs, just
trying to survive, trying to getthings done, trying to build a
better life for me and my son.
And I was taking pretty goodcare of myself, but ultimately I
(03:04):
was doing too much like we'rehuman, right?
We can't just keep going, going,going.
So I did have a significantburnout.
Coming through the other side ofthat really allowed me to sort
of look and, and work out whatis it that helps you run a
successful business?
Cause I didn't want to not havemy business.
Run a successful business, butalso really hold your own well
(03:25):
being at the core of that sothat you can enjoy all the
things you're doing in yourlife.
And so that's what I'm reallypassionate about helping other
women kind of do what they wantto do, whatever that might be,
and whatever success might meanfor them, but in a way that
really honors their own wellbeing.
And yeah, they get to take careof themselves and enjoy the life
that they create.
Tatiana (03:46):
And it's so, so important, isn't it?
Like, it's amazing how manyconversations I've been having
with guests on this podcastwhere so many of them have had
journeys of burnout or chronichealth issues because we're
giving so much of ourselves inthe work that we do.
Uh, and it sounds like even inother facets of business, people
are experiencing similar thingsfrom what you're,
Hayley (04:06):
I think, you know, yeah, I think in the health
professions, we know that therates are really high, but I
think actually the rates arereally high across the board.
And you know, not to generalizetoo much, but you know, people
who identify as women do tend tobe socialized into this kind of
helping, nurturing, care forothers roles.
And it can, you can pay a bigprice for that if you don't kind
(04:29):
of blend taking care of yourselfas well.
Yeah,
Tatiana (04:34):
And so many of us have that sensitivity, right?
That extra sensitivity as well.
That means we take on otherpeople's stuff more than we
should.
So I guess obviously off.
the podcast, we had spokenpreviously about some of your
own experiences with, withspirituality, but maybe for our
listeners, if you'd want to talkabout what first sparked your
interest in spirituality.
Hayley (04:56):
it's an interesting question.
That one.
I don't know.
I was that conscious that I waslike, Ooh, I'm my interest has
been sparked in this.
I think some of this, like, likemany things in my earlier life
kind of evolved and would keepkind of knocking on the door, so
to speak, until I paidattention.
And sometimes, sometimes itwould take me a long time to pay
(05:17):
attention.
And It didn't always have suchgreat outcomes when I didn't pay
attention.
So I think, you know, I starteda practice of mindfulness when I
was at university doing mystudies.
I was fortunate to be guided byone of the tutors that I worked
with at university and she ranlike a weekly group and.
(05:40):
I really found that reallyhelpful, but I think even
earlier in my life, there havejust been things that have
happened that I've kind of tunedinto and gone ahead with.
And then when I've had these newexperiences, there's just been
(06:01):
times where perhaps I've, howwould I explain it?
It's like I'd get to a place andthere would just be a really
familiar feeling or somethingwould feel very right.
Like I said, I didn't alwayslisten to that earlier in my
life, and I certainly do payattention to this stuff a lot
more now.
But the, the more sort of, okay,I'm going to be more intentional
(06:23):
and pay attention and do thisfor myself probably was In that
time when I was at university.
So it probably, it was probablyaround sort of 2007, 2008, maybe
that I I was introduced to abook by Christopher Gurman, the
mindful path to self compassion,and I really enjoyed that.
(06:48):
But again, I kind of read it,put it down, was so busy, like I
was single parenting, I wasstudying.
So whilst I'd read the book, andobviously a part of me had
digested that and held on to it,but I wasn't being that
intentional.
And I guess that practice thenbuilt over time, particularly
when I was exposed to compassionfocused therapy.
(07:09):
I think that for me, that thatconcept of compassion for
ourselves and for others.
started to allow me to deepen myrelationship with myself and pay
attention more.
So I guess the more spiritualaspects of life as well.
Tatiana (07:27):
Yeah.
How amazing.
I mean, I've, I do believe thatthese more recent wave of
psychotherapies like compassionhave a spiritual undertone to
them, don't they?
But yeah, I know that you're abig proponent of compassion
focused therapy.
So as we talk through, I'd loveto hear more about how, I guess,
(07:50):
those spiritual insights inthat, in that methodology have
also shaped some of yourfeelings about this stuff.
But what, so what would you saywith the, was the initial,
spiritual concept that you firstbegan your, your exploration
journey with.
Was it compassion or was it themindfulness?
Hayley (08:08):
I think it w it would have been mindfulness.
Yeah.
And initially I was trained inacceptance and commitment
therapy as a psychologist manyyears ago.
And, and like I said, I'd beenreading Christopher Germer's
book and And even actually withmy son when he was little, we
would go on walks and I thinkwhen we can look at the world
(08:29):
through the eyes of a child, weare far more mindful and he
would spot like a flower or he'dsee some ants moving and we
would stop and really payattention and be really present.
And the time that I had withhim, like I was, I was obviously
really busy.
I had a lot going on.
It was a relatively stressfultime, but there were all also
(08:51):
these times where it was just meand my son and without even
realizing about the sort ofpresent moment experiencing and,
and being more mindful.
I was so enjoying my time withhim that they were very mindful
moments.
And then over time, I began toreally understand how different
it felt when I was being moremindful compared to when I was
(09:15):
just kind of on autopilot orjust rush, rush, rush going
through, through the day as weall do at times, of course, I'm
not mindful all the time.
So yeah,
Tatiana (09:25):
very hard to be in this day and age, isn't it?
Hayley (09:27):
I'd say it was the mindfulness for me would have
been, would have been that.
Tatiana (09:33):
That gateway.
And so it sounds like it's beena very gradual process.
And I know when we spokeearlier, I think actually we had
our first conversation last yearabout some of your spiritual
journey.
And it feels like it's beenbuilding.
over time and it's built into amomentum now, or more recently,
it's building even further.
So in this journey that you'vehad so far, what benefits do you
(09:57):
feel there have been for you in,in trying to incorporate, I
guess, spirituality or spiritualperspective in your life on that
personal level first?
Hayley (10:08):
the first thing that comes to mind, I think that's a
great question.
I think the first thing thatcomes to mind is when, I mean,
for me, I very much separatereligion and spirituality.
I don't consider myself areligious person.
I consider myself a spiritualperson.
And I think this sense of, Youknow, I am one part of a very
(10:30):
big universe, a very tiny speckof, and I think even just
knowing that and remindingmyself of that sometimes really
helps me put into perspectiveanything that I'm dealing with.
So I think sometimes if I'mgetting quite overwhelmed by
something or I'm findingsomething, something difficult
(10:54):
by reminding myself that thereis a world and a universe and
there is something much greaterthan I am in this whole process
helps me connect back to what'simportant, helps me can connect
back to that present moment andto my values.
(11:14):
I like to kind of ask myself,you know, is this going to
matter in a day, in a week, in amonth, in a year, in five years
time?
And very often the answer is no,right?
It's really not going to matter.
the big scheme of things, giventhat I am a spec in the
universe, is this worth myenergy?
So that's, That's been greatbecause I, I spent a lot of time
(11:36):
in, in quite an anxious statethroughout a lot of my life
Tatiana (11:40):
Mm.
Hayley (11:40):
I think that's been really helpful to navigate that.
Tatiana (11:46):
Uh huh.
Do you feel like it's actually,it's becoming more, guess, more
prominent in the way that youapproach your life, like this,
that kind of focus
Hayley (11:57):
Absolutely.
Without a doubt.
Yeah, without a
Tatiana (11:59):
It's, I think it's generalizing to other parts.
Hayley (12:02):
yeah, I'd say, you know, the coming into contact and
learning and teaching othersabout compassion focused therapy
absolutely changed therelationship that I have with
myself.
And it's been so pivotal for me,both personally and
professionally.
(12:22):
So, and I've, and I've beenlearning about that for the last
11 2013 when I was firstintroduced to that.
Tatiana (12:30):
Oh, wow.
Hayley (12:31):
But probably in the last 12 months, two years, maybe I'm
just so much more tuned in.
I just listened to that sort ofinner voice, that inner wisdom.
It's, it's like, sometimes it'slike a knowing,
Tatiana (12:45):
Yes.
Hayley (12:46):
really describe it as in any other way.
I just have a knowing that thisis my next right step or This is
something I shouldn't be doingor this is something I should
get more curious about.
So definitely in the last yearor two that that's become far
more prominent and I find itquite exciting to be honest.
Tatiana (13:09):
Yes.
Uh, and are you willing to sharea little bit about, I guess,
some, some of that, uh, thatpersonal, uh, what would you
call it?
How in a tangible way it'sreally impacted you positively
to be opening, not just openingyourself up to that, but
allowing yourself to be led byit.
(13:29):
Cause it sounds like it's,there's a guidance there,
Hayley (13:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
Tatiana (13:33):
Only as much as you're willing to share, of course.
Hayley (13:35):
yeah, no, gosh, I'm quite an open book and I'm
absolutely willing to sharestuff.
Sometimes it can feel a bit hardto put it into words in a way
somebody else can understand.
So.
I'll do my best.
But I, but I think some of that,I guess it's a trusting it's
allowed me when, when I havelistened.
And I guess to, to just go backa little bit when I've reflected
(13:58):
back on my life, I can see whereI didn't listen.
Tatiana (14:04):
Hmm.
Hayley (14:05):
I can see that there had been, I'm going back early,
early life.
I can see where there'd beensome really quite negative
outcomes for me through notlistening.
Through not trusting those gutfeelings or that intuition,
whatever, whatever it is, theguidance, whatever you want to
call it then reflecting on mylife of, okay, when did I kind
(14:27):
of get the nudges or when did Iget that sense of knowing and
didn't listen to it and what wasthe outcome?
And when did I get those?
And I did listen to it.
And what was the outcome?
And I can honestly say that whenI listened to it, the outcome
did tend to be much better.
So, so I like to think of myselfas somebody who likes to learn
(14:49):
and grow.
So I thought, well, maybe Ishould listen then.
Tatiana (14:54):
And thankfully spirit doesn't let up, right?
It keeps coming and coming andcoming.
Hayley (14:58):
well, if you don't listen, and I think this was,
this was very significant for mein terms of my burnout.
that I kept getting thosenudges.
And, you know, the context of mylife was that I very much was in
survival mode.
I'd been dealing with sometrauma.
I was a new single parent.
I was raising a young child andmade the choice to go back to
(15:21):
university.
So there was a lot going on thatI didn't necessarily have the
luxury or the privilege to justkind of tune in and Go with the
flow.
But there were signs and therewere things showing up for me
that I wasn't paying attentionto.
And I, and I paid a big price.
Like I was really, really unwelland it impacted my health in a
significant way.
(15:42):
It impacted my ability to earnmoney.
It impacted my friendships andthe way I was able to be
socially with people because Iwas really damaged by it, you
know, my health and everything.
So.
I think the more I, I would tunein and listen.
(16:03):
I suppose it's been this processof.
You know, the more I thenthought, okay, well, I need to
listen to this now and see whathappens.
It allowed me to build trust inmyself, which I think a lot of
people could struggle with.
You know, I think we, we,
Tatiana (16:22):
so
Hayley (16:23):
of attention to what other people are saying.
We can pay a lot of attention towhat society is telling us is
the right thing to do or not.
We can pay a lot of attention topeople in our close proximity
who may or may not want us to,to listen to them.
Do particular things or grow ina particular way.
I've been really fortunate thatI am surrounded by many
beautiful, supportive people.
(16:44):
And it was important for me tolearn to support myself well.
Yeah.
So I think the more I listenedto that guidance, that inner
wisdom, that intuition and tookaction on that, the more I saw
positive outcomes and the more Icould then kind of trust myself.
And what's been exciting aboutthat is it's really allowed me
(17:05):
to evolve my business in a waythat suits me so well.
Like I was.
Full time just doing one to oneclinical work with my clients.
I changed that this quite anumber of years ago.
We're talking here.
This was after my, my burnoutchanged that to doing more
supervision, which I was reallyenjoying.
And like I mentioned at thestart, people were then asking
(17:27):
me, how, how do I, how could Istart a business?
How can I set things up?
So I'm taking care of mywellbeing.
And when I was doing that work,that was really lighting me up.
I was finding this kind ofnewfound energy for working with
women, helping them really kindof empower themselves, take care
of themselves, create lives thatthey wanted to live.
(17:49):
And I've just kept kind oftuning in and doing things.
And my focus is moving more to,to the business side of things.
I've got a background prior tobeing a psychologist in lots of
different areas of business.
Then I've got, you know, nearlytwo decades of my learning and
experience in psychology that isreally helpful in the coaching
(18:11):
work that I do as well.
So it's really allowing me to, Iguess, take some chances on
myself, step out of my comfortzone and just listen to what is
showing up for me in terms ofwhat's the next best step.
Like I'm 54.
(18:31):
And I just want to be living alife that, uh, kind of nourishes
me, but has really good impactin the world.
I'm very passionate aboutbringing compassion into my work
because I really believe thatthe more we can spread
compassion in the world, themore we can decrease suffering.
And that's something that I amreally passionate about.
So Yeah, it's just been a reallylovely journey and I, and I'm
(18:55):
just so much more open to itnow, which is exciting, but
takes trust as well, becauseit's like, Oh, what if, what if
I'm not quite hearing thatright?
Tatiana (19:05):
You're right.
And we're so socialized, right?
Like to be tuned externally andbeing led by other people, it
disconnects us from ourselvesand that inner compass.
So it takes a lot of verydeliberate conscious work to, to
really start to, to open up orturn the volume up, I guess.
And it sounds like you've beendoing a really beautiful job of
that.
Hayley (19:25):
yeah.
And I find sometimes I'll findmyself thinking, Oh, I should
ask my husband or I should asksomebody else or I should speak
to so and so about that.
And then I come back and think,Well, hang on a minute, ask
yourself first, ask yourselffirst, get clear on what you
think is that you want and need.
And then if you still feel likeyou need to ask somebody else to
(19:46):
do that, but don't keep givingyour power away to other people
and other contexts.
So that, that's still a work inprogress.
I'm sure it will be for a longtime, but I'm getting much
better at realizing thatactually I have a lot of the
answers.
I don't, I don't need to, andthat's not to say I don't have
support because I do.
I, I have people in my, youknow, I have my own coach.
(20:07):
I have a therapist.
It's really that trusting of, ofme and tuning into what's
showing up.
Tatiana (20:16):
Yeah.
Oh, so beautifully said.
And I guess this leads reallynicely into then how this
transformed the way that youwork.
Right.
So what benefits or how has itenhanced the work that you do?
Not just in, I guess we can talkabout the psychological work
that you, you were doing upuntil recently but also the
coaching work, you know, howit's, it's transformed the way
(20:38):
that you
Hayley (20:39):
Yeah.
So I think one from, from apersonal perspective, it's It's
allowing me to really design thework I do and my business in a
way that aligns for me reallywell.
And in that means I have a lifeI really enjoy and I'm taking
really good care of my health,which ultimately is, you know,
(21:00):
very, very important.
But I think also what it's doneis It's, it allows me to keep
coming back to my clients interms of helping them learn to
trust themselves.
Like I don't work with peoplefrom, and this is, this was the
(21:22):
same in psychology and it'scertainly the same in coaching.
It's like, it's like, I'm notthe expert here in what you need
to do or what you want or what'sright for you, I have some
really great skills.
to help you get to a place whereyou can answer those questions
and you can move forward on whatyou want.
So I think really bringing thatinto my work and I think I have
(21:45):
done that for quite a long time.
And again, particularly from thecompassion focus work, really
helping people understandthemselves and get to know
themselves, but leaving spaceopen for Having things show up
that we don't necessarily haveto understand.
(22:06):
And I guess that's thedifference for me in coaching.
And I think that's where I findthe coaching space more
spacious, more expansive, a bitmore exciting.
Obviously with psychology, andrightly so, we need to be
mindful when we are working withpeople who are struggling with
their mental health.
(22:27):
And we don't want to be makingstuff up.
We want to make sure, and I knowyou do some beautiful teaching
around the evidence base withsome of the spiritual concepts
that you work with.
And I think that is reallyimportant because we're working
with vulnerable clients and weneed to.
Do no harm and we need to takegood care.
I think in the coaching space,and again, I think when you've
been a psychologist, you don'tlet go of, you know, always need
(22:50):
to be mindful where the client'sat and how they're, how they're
going.
But I think it allows for.
A bit more playfulness, maybe abit more curiosity, a bit more
sharing.
Well, this just showed up.
I'm not really sure where that'scome from, but it just showed up
for me.
And I want to share it with you,which you might not necessarily
(23:13):
do in our.
In some of our more traditionalpsychology work.
So I think it's it just feelsexpansive.
It's the word that keeps comingup for me as we're talking, it
feels more expansive and thatfor me feels really exciting
because having been in a placein my life, I struggled with my
(23:36):
own mental health when I wasyounger, having been in a place.
in my life where my life feltvery small, the, the sense of
expansiveness feels reallyexciting.
Tatiana (23:50):
Yeah, that's so beautiful.
Hayley (23:51):
know if
Tatiana (23:52):
No, it answered it beautifully.
And it's so interesting becauseI think another thing that comes
up a lot for people in the ideaof being able to incorporate
this spirituality or this, thisother perspectives into the
working with their clients isthe ability to show up more
authentically themselves.
Right.
Which is what you're talkingabout.
Like having these little hunchescome in and, and be able to.
(24:13):
Just express it rather than holdit back and, and worry too much
about any of that.
And when we think about selfcompassion and, you know,
burnout, how much of a role itplays when, like how much of an
impact it has when we're notbeing authentic on all of these
other facets.
No,
Hayley (24:33):
when we're trying to fit ourselves into living life by
somebody else's rules, it can bereally harmful.
And that's not to say you needto go out there, be a complete
renegade, break all the rulesand all that stuff.
I think when we're, when we'retrying
Tatiana (24:48):
right.
You can't do that.
Hayley (24:49):
Yeah, and you know, I, I'm late identified
neurodivergent.
I was identified with autism anda DH ADHD at age 52.
And I look back and think, oh mygosh, I have been trying to fit,
I, I'd spent a lifetime tryingto fit into being the right way,
doing the right thing, behavinghow people wanted me to.
(25:10):
I used to think of myself as achameleon.
You know, I would, I would readthe room and be like, okay, this
is how I need to be.
And it was soul destroying.
So now it's like, well, this iswho I am.
I like everybody.
I'm a work in progress.
I will evolve as I, as I age,but this is who I am.
(25:31):
What you see is what you getwith me.
And I'm in a place where I have,Become really comfortable with
who I am and I will attractpeople in my life.
And I will have people in mylife that are a good fit for me.
Whereas I haven't always donethat.
Tatiana (25:53):
Yeah.
Okay.
Hayley (25:54):
So that's been really helpful and really lovely.
And like you say, I think whenwe can show up as our authentic
selves, I think that, you know,the word authentic, like, like
all the words, they all startgetting hijacked and wish washed
and it's such a shame, but Ihold on to that word authentic
because it's, it's one of myhighest values.
And I think when we can show upas our authentic self, we can
(26:18):
live a more fulfilling life.
We can.
follow what it is we're meant tobe doing in life.
And we can also model that andgive permission to other people
who are wanting to do it, butperhaps not knowing how or
whether they should.
So yeah.
Tatiana (26:37):
Yeah.
No.
So, so true.
Beautifully said.
Uh, and I guess you touchedbriefly on, you know, some of
the limitations of beingpsychologists or working
clinically, but also having thisother perspective, the spiritual
perspective.
And I think particularly inAustralia, we have a lot of fear
around what it would mean toembrace that part of ourselves
(26:58):
and the repercussionsprofessionally that could come
from that.
Is this something that you, youjuggled or do you think that
that, Played a role in howquickly you could permit
yourself to connect with thosespiritual inklings or leanings
that started manifesting withinyou.
Hayley (27:15):
Look, I think, I think you're correct in saying there's
a lot of fear within theprofession.
I don't think that has been aparticular fear for me in terms
of my work.
because I guess a lot of thework that I've done and again,
coming back to compassionfocused therapy for me, it's
really about getting to knowyourself, understanding the
(27:39):
parts of self showing up as thehuman being.
Like at the start of thepandemic, I I had a group for
therapists cause I could seethat people were struggling.
And then I started my podcast,which is changed its name now,
but was called caring for thehuman in the therapist chair,
because I just couldn't let goof the fact that you can't not
be who you are as a therapist.
(28:01):
You can try and leave yourselfat the door, but guess what?
It's not going to work.
Like you are sitting in thechair, you are having an
emotional experience to whatyour clients are saying.
You are in a co createdrelationship with the person
sitting across from you.
And, and I always knew formyself and, and do.
Like, you know, I work in thecoaching industry, it's
unregulated, but I know I'mprofessional and ethical.
(28:22):
I don't concern myself aboutall, you know, nobody's telling
me I have to be professionalethical, so I don't need to be.
It's like, well, I know I am.
And.
Bringing who I am to my work hasbeen really helpful for not just
me, but for my clients, bothcoaching and clinical and
supervisees, and I'm not doinganything, you know, and
(28:47):
everybody I know who is, is.
you know, acknowledging theirspiritual side and they're
working as APRA registeredpsychologists.
None of the people I know areout there doing any kind of
wacky stuff.
That's just weird.
That's being made up.
So, so I didn't have that fearcause I can hand on heart, say,
well, I'm professional andethical and I do what's best for
(29:10):
my client and take care ofmyself at the same time.
So, but I, but I know there is alot of.
And I think, you know, when wethink about the three flows of
compassion, not just the selfcompassion, but receiving
compassion from others,
Tatiana (29:26):
Mm.
Hayley (29:27):
this can be really helpful when people are
struggling with this becausethey can seek support and talk
to other people who arenavigating similar things or
have navigated them in the past.
So we, we know that, you know,most helping professionals and,
and many people, whether you'rea health helping professional or
not, don't find givingcompassion to others,
(29:49):
particularly difficult.
In fact, probably do that moreout of balance than the other
two flows.
So I think it's important tokeep all those three flows in
mind so that we can take careof, you know, self care and
community care.
I think it's all important.
Tatiana (30:06):
Yeah.
Oh, beautiful.
And so what value, from yourperspective do you see for
psychologists, therapists, evencoaches to embrace this, like
their spiritual selves, or bemore curious about spirituality
at least?
Hayley (30:23):
I mean, like I say, for me, it's, it's been a journey
that has allowed me to put moretrust in myself really tune in
to that.
Kind of in a voice and that,that knowing that shows up,
which I think is really helpful.
I think if this is somethingthat is of interest to you and
you're trying to block it, thatcan be detrimental.
(30:46):
I think when we're not showingup as our authentic selves,
particularly in the caringprofessions, I think it can
exacerbate.
the problems of burnout for me,and I don't know if this is the
same for everybody, obviously,but for me, as I have embraced
that more spiritual side of me,I'm far more gentle with
Tatiana (31:13):
Mm,
Hayley (31:14):
I'm far more forgiving of myself.
I give myself a lot more spaceand grace, and that has had
amazing flow on effects to myhealth.
It's, it's kind of broadened howI think about the world or the
people, the planet.
I went to change to a plantbased diet about six and a half
(31:37):
years ago.
Tatiana (31:39):
Oh, wow.
Hayley (31:40):
which feels really nice for me and just feels really
aligned.
And how I want to kind of behere in the world.
So I just think it, I think it'slike anything.
If you've got a part of you thatis interested in something or
you've got particular qualitiesabout yourself, if you embrace
(32:00):
them, you can live more fully aswho you are.
If you deny them or try andsuppress them.
Likely is that suppression ofstuff is going to show up
somewhere.
And in my experience, both withmyself and working with
multitude of people, it canoften express in physical and
mental health problems.
Tatiana (32:20):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Are you seeing this with yourclients?
Like have you seen them startingto speak about things in those
spiritual terms withoutsometimes even being aware of
it?
Like I said earlier, I thinkcompassion focused therapy has a
very strong spiritual undertoneto it.
Uh, and people will bringexistential or meaning based
(32:42):
issues to, To us or people likeus without really realizing that
what they're searching for ismore of that spiritual self
connection.
Hayley (32:52):
yeah, absolutely.
And I wonder if some, you know,I've always attracted clients
who, you know, I was, I was acttrained acceptance and
commitment therapy trained, andthere's a lot of mindfulness and
values work in there.
And then of course, compassionfocused therapy.
So I think I, I probably have askewed kind of caseload of
people who are interested in theGetting curious about their
(33:15):
values and what life, how tocreate a meaningful life.
So, I'd say I've probably got abit of a biased audience in
that.
But, but yeah that, that'salways been that, that deeper
work for, for a long time hasalways been of interest to me
rather than kind of the sort ofsuperficial.
Tatiana (33:35):
yeah
Hayley (33:36):
You know, fix, fix some symptoms and, and move on with
your life.
That's not, that's never beenhow I've wanted to kind of work.
So, yeah, I think ultimately,you know, as human beings,
that's what we, we search for,isn't it?
Meaning how do we fit?
Where do we fit?
What's our purpose?
What, you know, What's thereason we get up in the morning?
(33:56):
And you know, I think ViktorFrankl's book, Man's Search for
Meaning, that that was a book Iread many years ago as well.
So as we're having thisconversation, I'm like, Oh,
actually, and there was that,and there was that.
And I think that's part of thehuman experience, isn't it?
It's like, this is, it's hardbeing human.
It's confusing.
The world we live in at themoment is a, looks like an
(34:17):
absolute shitshow.
How do we find our place and ourpurpose and the meaning for
ourselves?
And, and the joy as well.
You know, so I think, I think alot of people are asking these
questions and we can't alwaysfind them in the places we think
(34:40):
we'll find them and we can'talways rely completely on, you
know, experiments done in labsthat are going to give us
answers to things.
I mean, I've always thoughtthat.
I mean, I'm a, you know, I'm ascientist practitioner by
training, but I also think, youknow, I can't know all the
(35:02):
things there are to know.
And as human beings, we can'tknow all the things there are to
know.
I mean, that's, that seemsarrogant to me.
Tatiana (35:12):
Yeah.
It's always evolving.
Isn't it?
I don't think that will everend.
Hayley (35:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
Tatiana (35:17):
Yeah.
What about with your, with yourcoaching clients?
I know that the focus there ismore on, on businesses that
they're building.
Do you see some of these themescoming through there as well?
Hayley (35:27):
Oh,
Tatiana (35:27):
like, I guess the businesses that people want to
build and how they want to beengaging in their businesses.
Yeah.
Hayley (35:33):
Absolutely.
Whilst I'm a business coach, thepremise of my work is changing
your relationship with yourselfand your business.
So it's very values aligned.
It's very much about tuning intohow is this going to work for
you as a human being runningthis, where, what do you want to
be doing?
Like, as far as we know,nobody's come back and told us
(35:55):
otherwise yet.
As far as we know, we get oneprecious life.
So, and you know, for, for manypeople, a lot of time is spent
working in some form or another.
So how do we want to create thatin a way that feels meaningful,
that feels joyful, that supportsthe, the life you want?
(36:16):
I'm very much about, you know,we don't, we, we don't live to
work.
We.
We create a business to supporta lifestyle and our wellbeing.
So yeah, absolutely.
This is, this is work I do withpeople in my business coaching.
Tatiana (36:31):
Yeah.
Very fascinating.
Have you noticed a shift though,like in more recent years where
it's becoming a bigger featurefor people or has it always been
there?
Hayley (36:41):
Well, I think this is, this has always been a premise
of my work.
So I've, I've been, I've beenworking with this kind of
perspective for many, many yearsnow.
So I, I think that's, that'stricky for me to answer.
It's certainly yeah, from myperspective, I've always come
back to these questions.
Tatiana (36:59):
Yeah.
Hayley (37:00):
Yeah,
Tatiana (37:01):
Fair enough.
I only ask because I think evenin a clinical context, I've been
seeing a lot more people coming.
With, uh, more existential basedquestions or some spiritual
concepts that they want todiscuss, which is really
fascinating.
Even though I don't advertisethat I'm a spiritual
psychologist at all, it, itseems to, to still show up in
(37:24):
the room and it's becoming moreand more, more the case probably
in the last, or yeah, Idefinitely want to say the last
five, six years.
It's very curious.
Hayley (37:35):
And, and I
Tatiana (37:36):
dream.
Hayley (37:36):
well, I think, you know, when we are living aligned,
Tatiana (37:40):
Mm.
Yeah.
Hayley (37:41):
I think we do attract the people who have an interest
in the things we're doing.
And again, I don't know how youexplain that.
And maybe it's the way we talkabout things.
Maybe it's the way you show upand model how you're living your
life.
But I think the more we arealigned, the more we attract.
the people that are interestedin that or need the support in
(38:01):
that.
But there's certainly, you know,I, I started talking about, you
know, self care and, and burnoutprevention a long time ago.
And I kind of look at socialmedia now and go, okay, now
everyone's talking about it.
which is fantastic.
It's like, great that we, youknow, I think we can take a long
time to catch up with things.
But that's such an importantthing for all of us, whether
(38:26):
we're health professionals,whether we're running businesses
or not.
I think, you know, if we don'thave our health, mental and
physical, it can be very hard tohave any kind of a,
Tatiana (38:38):
100%.
Absolutely.
So I guess on a finalreflection, if you had to pick
one transformative, uh, aspectof embracing spirituality more
fully, both on a personal and aprofessional level, what aspect
would that be for you?
Hayley (38:55):
I think starting with mindfulness because that allows
you to kind of slow down and payattention to what's happening.
You know, I talk a lot about,about slowing down and tuning in
and regulating our nervoussystem.
But I think that that sort oflearning that mindfulness isn't
having to sit for half an hour,you know, somehow clear your
mind.
(39:16):
I mean, that's just not going tohappen.
We've got this tricky brain andit's made for chatter.
But I think thinking about.
small moments of mindfulnesspractice just to allow you to
start to connect and payattention can be really helpful.
Like I say, I first read themindful path to self compassion,
(39:36):
which I really enjoyed.
And there's so many great books.
around these things anddifferent kind of meditations
and guided stuff and, or evenjust paying attention, you know,
when, when you're making a cupof tea and you're listening to
the kettle boil and you'resmelling the aroma of the tea
(39:58):
can be a place to start.
But I think it, it's that thatallows you to start to tune into
yourself, which I know can behard for some people.
So it's, it's kind of startsmore, what's your next smallest
step?
And just be curious.
Tatiana (40:13):
Hmm.
Yeah.
Beautiful.
And I mean, maybe you've alreadyanswered this question, but I do
have a tradition here where Iget my guests to recommend a
transformative spiritual bookfor our listeners that they can
use to begin their journey forthose that are curious to
explore these more like moredeeply or at least start that
process.
(40:34):
What would be the book?
Would that be the book?
Or do you have others that you'dlike to suggest?
Hayley (40:38):
do you know, say read poetry.
I know it might sound a bitweird.
Read,
Tatiana (40:45):
No,
Hayley (40:46):
some
Tatiana (40:46):
that's a lovely,
Hayley (40:48):
Poetry is something exquisite.
Particular, I, I love a coupleof Persian poets, Hafez and
Rumi, but I think even justreading poetry and seeing what
speaks to you in that can be.
A beautiful spiritual practice,I think.
(41:11):
And the other one that came tome earlier was Viktor Frankl's
Man's Search for Meaning.
I think is a, I think that's abook that everybody should read.
I hate the word should that's abook that everyone could read if
they choose and I wouldrecommend they choose
Tatiana (41:32):
we strongly suggest.
Oh, but I, I agree with you.
I think that book is, is.
It's phenomenal.
It's yeah, people definitelywould get so much from reading
it, but I love that suggestionof poetry.
That's the first time I've hadsomething like that suggested
and it's beautiful becauseyou're right.
(41:53):
Like there's something about artthat's expressed in that way
that connects straight to thesoul.
Doesn't it?
Yeah.
That's lovely.
Thank you.
It's been such a joyousconversation to have you here.
Thank you for agreeing to havethis conversation with me.
Where could people find a littlebit more about what you do?
I know you do so many amazingthings and you've got a podcast
(42:15):
of your own.
Why don't you tell our listenersa little bit about how they can
find you?
Hayley (42:19):
So they can go to my website www.
doctorhayleydquinn.
com That is actually i'm goingi'm in the process of having a
rebrand on your new website.
So, it will change shortly Butthey can find me there.
They can find me on social mediaunder Dr.
Hayley D Quinn on Instagram andFacebook and LinkedIn.
(42:40):
And yeah, I've got a podcastcalled Welcome to Self with Dr.
Hayley D.
Quinn, which is aimed atbusiness owners.
The original early episodes,like I mentioned, were aimed at,
uh, therapists, but that'sreally about there's lots of
stuff.
I've had people who are notbusiness owners that say this
stuff's really helpful.
Anyway, it's, uh, it's really,Part of being human and figuring
(43:01):
all that stuff out.
Tatiana (43:03):
fantastic.
I will put a, uh, links to allof these things on the show
notes as well.
For those of you who want to, tolook into what Hayley has to
offer.
And I really, I highly recommendthat you do.
But yeah, so I'll have all thelinks in the show notes for you
all to explore Hayley's work,but once again, Hayley, thank
you so much for joining metoday.
Hayley (43:24):
Thank you.
Thank you so much for having meon.
It's been a real joy.
Tatiana (43:28):
thank you.
And I hope you all have a lovelyweek and we'll speak next time.
Thank you for tuning in to thisepisode of Integrated Wisdom.
It is my sincere wish thattoday's episode may have
intrigued and inspired you toreclaim your power and step into
becoming more fully integratedspiritual beings.
(43:51):
New episodes are published everysecond Wednesday and I hope
you'll continue to join us as wedive deeper into what it means
to live an integrated life.
So if it feels aligned to you, Iinvite you to hit subscribe and
share it with others who youfeel may benefit too.
You may also find me onInstagram at integrated
underscore wisdom.
(44:13):
Remember each moment is anopportunity to embrace your
divine potential and create aworld that is more frequently
inspired.
So for now, stay connected, stayinspired and keep shining your
light into the world.
Welcome to the Integrated Wisdom Podcast.
I am your host, Tatyana DaSilva.
Join me as we discuss what itmeans to live an integrated life
and explore ways for you tocreate a life filled with
greater meaning, peace, andconnection by integrating the
wisdom of spirituality,psychology, Neuroscience,
(00:26):
Epigenetics and EnergyPsychology are hoped to empower
you to create deeper and moreloving connections with yourself
and others, whilst also pavingthe way for humanity at large to
be reimagined and inspired tobecome the very best version of
itself.
(00:49):
Hello and welcome to theintegrated wisdom podcast.
Thank you so much for joining mefor yet another week.
I am very excited to be bringingthe very popular monthly segment
of soulful chats once again.
And today I have a dearcolleague who is working in the
space of helping women with thebusinesses overcome burnout
(01:12):
through self compassion andwe've come together through our
mutual interests ofspirituality, we've had some
very interesting conversationsaround our spiritual experiences
and spiritual perspectives.
And I thought she would be theperfect person to have on the
podcast and in this segment.
I'm very excited to welcome Dr.
Hayley D Quinn.
(01:33):
She's a compassionate, a patientcentered, Business coach and
clinical psychologist who helpswomen entrepreneurs transform
their relationships withthemselves and their businesses.
After overcoming burnout in herown career, Hayley discovered
the power of self compassion andnow guides women to step out of
the shadows, embrace theirauthenticity, and build thriving
(01:53):
businesses aligned with theirvalues.
With a blend of empathy andpractical skills, she empowers
her clients to stop playingsmall, Take up space and create
a life and business thatnourishes them.
So welcome Hayley.
I'm so excited to have you here.
Hayley (02:08):
Oh, hi.
And thank you so much for havingme on the podcast.
Tatiana (02:13):
So I know I gave a really brief overview of the
wonderful work that you've beendoing, but I'd love for you to
share a little bit more aboutyourself and, you know, what you
do.
Hayley (02:23):
Yeah.
So like you say, I'm a, I'm abusiness coach and clinical
psychologist.
I've been doing clinicalpsychology for a long time.
And in the past few years, alsodoing business coaching, which
has kind of evolved from thework that I was doing with my
supervisees who started askingme how they could also create
businesses.
that allowed them to thrive.
(02:44):
You mentioned I'd had asignificant burnout, which I
had.
I was at university as a singleparent and did my bachelor and
honors and then a PhD.
And at the time was working, youknow, up to three jobs, just
trying to survive, trying to getthings done, trying to build a
better life for me and my son.
And I was taking pretty goodcare of myself, but ultimately I
(03:04):
was doing too much like we'rehuman, right?
We can't just keep going, going,going.
So I did have a significantburnout.
Coming through the other side ofthat really allowed me to sort
of look and, and work out whatis it that helps you run a
successful business?
Cause I didn't want to not havemy business.
Run a successful business, butalso really hold your own well
(03:25):
being at the core of that sothat you can enjoy all the
things you're doing in yourlife.
And so that's what I'm reallypassionate about helping other
women kind of do what they wantto do, whatever that might be,
and whatever success might meanfor them, but in a way that
really honors their own wellbeing.
And yeah, they get to take careof themselves and enjoy the life
that they create.
Tatiana (03:46):
And it's so, so important, isn't it?
Like, it's amazing how manyconversations I've been having
with guests on this podcastwhere so many of them have had
journeys of burnout or chronichealth issues because we're
giving so much of ourselves inthe work that we do.
Uh, and it sounds like even inother facets of business, people
are experiencing similar thingsfrom what you're,
Hayley (04:06):
I think, you know, yeah, I think in the health
professions, we know that therates are really high, but I
think actually the rates arereally high across the board.
And you know, not to generalizetoo much, but you know, people
who identify as women do tend tobe socialized into this kind of
helping, nurturing, care forothers roles.
And it can, you can pay a bigprice for that if you don't kind
(04:29):
of blend taking care of yourselfas well.
Yeah,
Tatiana (04:34):
And so many of us have that sensitivity, right?
That extra sensitivity as well.
That means we take on otherpeople's stuff more than we
should.
So I guess obviously off.
the podcast, we had spokenpreviously about some of your
own experiences with, withspirituality, but maybe for our
listeners, if you'd want to talkabout what first sparked your
interest in spirituality.
Hayley (04:56):
it's an interesting question.
That one.
I don't know.
I was that conscious that I waslike, Ooh, I'm my interest has
been sparked in this.
I think some of this, like, likemany things in my earlier life
kind of evolved and would keepkind of knocking on the door, so
to speak, until I paidattention.
And sometimes, sometimes itwould take me a long time to pay
(05:17):
attention.
And It didn't always have suchgreat outcomes when I didn't pay
attention.
So I think, you know, I starteda practice of mindfulness when I
was at university doing mystudies.
I was fortunate to be guided byone of the tutors that I worked
with at university and she ranlike a weekly group and.
(05:40):
I really found that reallyhelpful, but I think even
earlier in my life, there havejust been things that have
happened that I've kind of tunedinto and gone ahead with.
And then when I've had these newexperiences, there's just been
(06:01):
times where perhaps I've, howwould I explain it?
It's like I'd get to a place andthere would just be a really
familiar feeling or somethingwould feel very right.
Like I said, I didn't alwayslisten to that earlier in my
life, and I certainly do payattention to this stuff a lot
more now.
But the, the more sort of, okay,I'm going to be more intentional
(06:23):
and pay attention and do thisfor myself probably was In that
time when I was at university.
So it probably, it was probablyaround sort of 2007, 2008, maybe
that I I was introduced to abook by Christopher Gurman, the
mindful path to self compassion,and I really enjoyed that.
(06:48):
But again, I kind of read it,put it down, was so busy, like I
was single parenting, I wasstudying.
So whilst I'd read the book, andobviously a part of me had
digested that and held on to it,but I wasn't being that
intentional.
And I guess that practice thenbuilt over time, particularly
when I was exposed to compassionfocused therapy.
(07:09):
I think that for me, that thatconcept of compassion for
ourselves and for others.
started to allow me to deepen myrelationship with myself and pay
attention more.
So I guess the more spiritualaspects of life as well.
Tatiana (07:27):
Yeah.
How amazing.
I mean, I've, I do believe thatthese more recent wave of
psychotherapies like compassionhave a spiritual undertone to
them, don't they?
But yeah, I know that you're abig proponent of compassion
focused therapy.
So as we talk through, I'd loveto hear more about how, I guess,
(07:50):
those spiritual insights inthat, in that methodology have
also shaped some of yourfeelings about this stuff.
But what, so what would you saywith the, was the initial,
spiritual concept that you firstbegan your, your exploration
journey with.
Was it compassion or was it themindfulness?
Hayley (08:08):
I think it w it would have been mindfulness.
Yeah.
And initially I was trained inacceptance and commitment
therapy as a psychologist manyyears ago.
And, and like I said, I'd beenreading Christopher Germer's
book and And even actually withmy son when he was little, we
would go on walks and I thinkwhen we can look at the world
(08:29):
through the eyes of a child, weare far more mindful and he
would spot like a flower or he'dsee some ants moving and we
would stop and really payattention and be really present.
And the time that I had withhim, like I was, I was obviously
really busy.
I had a lot going on.
It was a relatively stressfultime, but there were all also
(08:51):
these times where it was just meand my son and without even
realizing about the sort ofpresent moment experiencing and,
and being more mindful.
I was so enjoying my time withhim that they were very mindful
moments.
And then over time, I began toreally understand how different
it felt when I was being moremindful compared to when I was
(09:15):
just kind of on autopilot orjust rush, rush, rush going
through, through the day as weall do at times, of course, I'm
not mindful all the time.
So yeah,
Tatiana (09:25):
very hard to be in this day and age, isn't it?
Hayley (09:27):
I'd say it was the mindfulness for me would have
been, would have been that.
Tatiana (09:33):
That gateway.
And so it sounds like it's beena very gradual process.
And I know when we spokeearlier, I think actually we had
our first conversation last yearabout some of your spiritual
journey.
And it feels like it's beenbuilding.
over time and it's built into amomentum now, or more recently,
it's building even further.
So in this journey that you'vehad so far, what benefits do you
(09:57):
feel there have been for you in,in trying to incorporate, I
guess, spirituality or spiritualperspective in your life on that
personal level first?
Hayley (10:08):
the first thing that comes to mind, I think that's a
great question.
I think the first thing thatcomes to mind is when, I mean,
for me, I very much separatereligion and spirituality.
I don't consider myself areligious person.
I consider myself a spiritualperson.
And I think this sense of, Youknow, I am one part of a very
(10:30):
big universe, a very tiny speckof, and I think even just
knowing that and remindingmyself of that sometimes really
helps me put into perspectiveanything that I'm dealing with.
So I think sometimes if I'mgetting quite overwhelmed by
something or I'm findingsomething, something difficult
(10:54):
by reminding myself that thereis a world and a universe and
there is something much greaterthan I am in this whole process
helps me connect back to what'simportant, helps me can connect
back to that present moment andto my values.
(11:14):
I like to kind of ask myself,you know, is this going to
matter in a day, in a week, in amonth, in a year, in five years
time?
And very often the answer is no,right?
It's really not going to matter.
the big scheme of things, giventhat I am a spec in the
universe, is this worth myenergy?
So that's, That's been greatbecause I, I spent a lot of time
(11:36):
in, in quite an anxious statethroughout a lot of my life
Tatiana (11:40):
Mm.
Hayley (11:40):
I think that's been really helpful to navigate that.
Tatiana (11:46):
Uh huh.
Do you feel like it's actually,it's becoming more, guess, more
prominent in the way that youapproach your life, like this,
that kind of focus
Hayley (11:57):
Absolutely.
Without a doubt.
Yeah, without a
Tatiana (11:59):
It's, I think it's generalizing to other parts.
Hayley (12:02):
yeah, I'd say, you know, the coming into contact and
learning and teaching othersabout compassion focused therapy
absolutely changed therelationship that I have with
myself.
And it's been so pivotal for me,both personally and
professionally.
(12:22):
So, and I've, and I've beenlearning about that for the last
11 2013 when I was firstintroduced to that.
Tatiana (12:30):
Oh, wow.
Hayley (12:31):
But probably in the last 12 months, two years, maybe I'm
just so much more tuned in.
I just listened to that sort ofinner voice, that inner wisdom.
It's, it's like, sometimes it'slike a knowing,
Tatiana (12:45):
Yes.
Hayley (12:46):
really describe it as in any other way.
I just have a knowing that thisis my next right step or This is
something I shouldn't be doingor this is something I should
get more curious about.
So definitely in the last yearor two that that's become far
more prominent and I find itquite exciting to be honest.
Tatiana (13:09):
Yes.
Uh, and are you willing to sharea little bit about, I guess,
some, some of that, uh, thatpersonal, uh, what would you
call it?
How in a tangible way it'sreally impacted you positively
to be opening, not just openingyourself up to that, but
allowing yourself to be led byit.
(13:29):
Cause it sounds like it's,there's a guidance there,
Hayley (13:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
Tatiana (13:33):
Only as much as you're willing to share, of course.
Hayley (13:35):
yeah, no, gosh, I'm quite an open book and I'm
absolutely willing to sharestuff.
Sometimes it can feel a bit hardto put it into words in a way
somebody else can understand.
So.
I'll do my best.
But I, but I think some of that,I guess it's a trusting it's
allowed me when, when I havelistened.
And I guess to, to just go backa little bit when I've reflected
(13:58):
back on my life, I can see whereI didn't listen.
Tatiana (14:04):
Hmm.
Hayley (14:05):
I can see that there had been, I'm going back early,
early life.
I can see where there'd beensome really quite negative
outcomes for me through notlistening.
Through not trusting those gutfeelings or that intuition,
whatever, whatever it is, theguidance, whatever you want to
call it then reflecting on mylife of, okay, when did I kind
(14:27):
of get the nudges or when did Iget that sense of knowing and
didn't listen to it and what wasthe outcome?
And when did I get those?
And I did listen to it.
And what was the outcome?
And I can honestly say that whenI listened to it, the outcome
did tend to be much better.
So, so I like to think of myselfas somebody who likes to learn
(14:49):
and grow.
So I thought, well, maybe Ishould listen then.
Tatiana (14:54):
And thankfully spirit doesn't let up, right?
It keeps coming and coming andcoming.
Hayley (14:58):
well, if you don't listen, and I think this was,
this was very significant for mein terms of my burnout.
that I kept getting thosenudges.
And, you know, the context of mylife was that I very much was in
survival mode.
I'd been dealing with sometrauma.
I was a new single parent.
I was raising a young child andmade the choice to go back to
(15:21):
university.
So there was a lot going on thatI didn't necessarily have the
luxury or the privilege to justkind of tune in and Go with the
flow.
But there were signs and therewere things showing up for me
that I wasn't paying attentionto.
And I, and I paid a big price.
Like I was really, really unwelland it impacted my health in a
significant way.
(15:42):
It impacted my ability to earnmoney.
It impacted my friendships andthe way I was able to be
socially with people because Iwas really damaged by it, you
know, my health and everything.
So.
I think the more I, I would tunein and listen.
(16:03):
I suppose it's been this processof.
You know, the more I thenthought, okay, well, I need to
listen to this now and see whathappens.
It allowed me to build trust inmyself, which I think a lot of
people could struggle with.
You know, I think we, we,
Tatiana (16:22):
so
Hayley (16:23):
of attention to what other people are saying.
We can pay a lot of attention towhat society is telling us is
the right thing to do or not.
We can pay a lot of attention topeople in our close proximity
who may or may not want us to,to listen to them.
Do particular things or grow ina particular way.
I've been really fortunate thatI am surrounded by many
beautiful, supportive people.
(16:44):
And it was important for me tolearn to support myself well.
Yeah.
So I think the more I listenedto that guidance, that inner
wisdom, that intuition and tookaction on that, the more I saw
positive outcomes and the more Icould then kind of trust myself.
And what's been exciting aboutthat is it's really allowed me
(17:05):
to evolve my business in a waythat suits me so well.
Like I was.
Full time just doing one to oneclinical work with my clients.
I changed that this quite anumber of years ago.
We're talking here.
This was after my, my burnoutchanged that to doing more
supervision, which I was reallyenjoying.
And like I mentioned at thestart, people were then asking
(17:27):
me, how, how do I, how could Istart a business?
How can I set things up?
So I'm taking care of mywellbeing.
And when I was doing that work,that was really lighting me up.
I was finding this kind ofnewfound energy for working with
women, helping them really kindof empower themselves, take care
of themselves, create lives thatthey wanted to live.
(17:49):
And I've just kept kind oftuning in and doing things.
And my focus is moving more to,to the business side of things.
I've got a background prior tobeing a psychologist in lots of
different areas of business.
Then I've got, you know, nearlytwo decades of my learning and
experience in psychology that isreally helpful in the coaching
(18:11):
work that I do as well.
So it's really allowing me to, Iguess, take some chances on
myself, step out of my comfortzone and just listen to what is
showing up for me in terms ofwhat's the next best step.
Like I'm 54.
(18:31):
And I just want to be living alife that, uh, kind of nourishes
me, but has really good impactin the world.
I'm very passionate aboutbringing compassion into my work
because I really believe thatthe more we can spread
compassion in the world, themore we can decrease suffering.
And that's something that I amreally passionate about.
So Yeah, it's just been a reallylovely journey and I, and I'm
(18:55):
just so much more open to itnow, which is exciting, but
takes trust as well, becauseit's like, Oh, what if, what if
I'm not quite hearing thatright?
Tatiana (19:05):
You're right.
And we're so socialized, right?
Like to be tuned externally andbeing led by other people, it
disconnects us from ourselvesand that inner compass.
So it takes a lot of verydeliberate conscious work to, to
really start to, to open up orturn the volume up, I guess.
And it sounds like you've beendoing a really beautiful job of
that.
Hayley (19:25):
yeah.
And I find sometimes I'll findmyself thinking, Oh, I should
ask my husband or I should asksomebody else or I should speak
to so and so about that.
And then I come back and think,Well, hang on a minute, ask
yourself first, ask yourselffirst, get clear on what you
think is that you want and need.
And then if you still feel likeyou need to ask somebody else to
(19:46):
do that, but don't keep givingyour power away to other people
and other contexts.
So that, that's still a work inprogress.
I'm sure it will be for a longtime, but I'm getting much
better at realizing thatactually I have a lot of the
answers.
I don't, I don't need to, andthat's not to say I don't have
support because I do.
I, I have people in my, youknow, I have my own coach.
(20:07):
I have a therapist.
It's really that trusting of, ofme and tuning into what's
showing up.
Tatiana (20:16):
Yeah.
Oh, so beautifully said.
And I guess this leads reallynicely into then how this
transformed the way that youwork.
Right.
So what benefits or how has itenhanced the work that you do?
Not just in, I guess we can talkabout the psychological work
that you, you were doing upuntil recently but also the
coaching work, you know, howit's, it's transformed the way
(20:38):
that you
Hayley (20:39):
Yeah.
So I think one from, from apersonal perspective, it's It's
allowing me to really design thework I do and my business in a
way that aligns for me reallywell.
And in that means I have a lifeI really enjoy and I'm taking
really good care of my health,which ultimately is, you know,
(21:00):
very, very important.
But I think also what it's doneis It's, it allows me to keep
coming back to my clients interms of helping them learn to
trust themselves.
Like I don't work with peoplefrom, and this is, this was the
(21:22):
same in psychology and it'scertainly the same in coaching.
It's like, it's like, I'm notthe expert here in what you need
to do or what you want or what'sright for you, I have some
really great skills.
to help you get to a place whereyou can answer those questions
and you can move forward on whatyou want.
So I think really bringing thatinto my work and I think I have
(21:45):
done that for quite a long time.
And again, particularly from thecompassion focus work, really
helping people understandthemselves and get to know
themselves, but leaving spaceopen for Having things show up
that we don't necessarily haveto understand.
(22:06):
And I guess that's thedifference for me in coaching.
And I think that's where I findthe coaching space more
spacious, more expansive, a bitmore exciting.
Obviously with psychology, andrightly so, we need to be
mindful when we are working withpeople who are struggling with
their mental health.
(22:27):
And we don't want to be makingstuff up.
We want to make sure, and I knowyou do some beautiful teaching
around the evidence base withsome of the spiritual concepts
that you work with.
And I think that is reallyimportant because we're working
with vulnerable clients and weneed to.
Do no harm and we need to takegood care.
I think in the coaching space,and again, I think when you've
been a psychologist, you don'tlet go of, you know, always need
(22:50):
to be mindful where the client'sat and how they're, how they're
going.
But I think it allows for.
A bit more playfulness, maybe abit more curiosity, a bit more
sharing.
Well, this just showed up.
I'm not really sure where that'scome from, but it just showed up
for me.
And I want to share it with you,which you might not necessarily
(23:13):
do in our.
In some of our more traditionalpsychology work.
So I think it's it just feelsexpansive.
It's the word that keeps comingup for me as we're talking, it
feels more expansive and thatfor me feels really exciting
because having been in a placein my life, I struggled with my
(23:36):
own mental health when I wasyounger, having been in a place.
in my life where my life feltvery small, the, the sense of
expansiveness feels reallyexciting.
Tatiana (23:50):
Yeah, that's so beautiful.
Hayley (23:51):
know if
Tatiana (23:52):
No, it answered it beautifully.
And it's so interesting becauseI think another thing that comes
up a lot for people in the ideaof being able to incorporate
this spirituality or this, thisother perspectives into the
working with their clients isthe ability to show up more
authentically themselves.
Right.
Which is what you're talkingabout.
Like having these little hunchescome in and, and be able to.
(24:13):
Just express it rather than holdit back and, and worry too much
about any of that.
And when we think about selfcompassion and, you know,
burnout, how much of a role itplays when, like how much of an
impact it has when we're notbeing authentic on all of these
other facets.
No,
Hayley (24:33):
when we're trying to fit ourselves into living life by
somebody else's rules, it can bereally harmful.
And that's not to say you needto go out there, be a complete
renegade, break all the rulesand all that stuff.
I think when we're, when we'retrying
Tatiana (24:48):
right.
You can't do that.
Hayley (24:49):
Yeah, and you know, I, I'm late identified
neurodivergent.
I was identified with autism anda DH ADHD at age 52.
And I look back and think, oh mygosh, I have been trying to fit,
I, I'd spent a lifetime tryingto fit into being the right way,
doing the right thing, behavinghow people wanted me to.
(25:10):
I used to think of myself as achameleon.
You know, I would, I would readthe room and be like, okay, this
is how I need to be.
And it was soul destroying.
So now it's like, well, this iswho I am.
I like everybody.
I'm a work in progress.
I will evolve as I, as I age,but this is who I am.
(25:31):
What you see is what you getwith me.
And I'm in a place where I have,Become really comfortable with
who I am and I will attractpeople in my life.
And I will have people in mylife that are a good fit for me.
Whereas I haven't always donethat.
Tatiana (25:53):
Yeah.
Okay.
Hayley (25:54):
So that's been really helpful and really lovely.
And like you say, I think whenwe can show up as our authentic
selves, I think that, you know,the word authentic, like, like
all the words, they all startgetting hijacked and wish washed
and it's such a shame, but Ihold on to that word authentic
because it's, it's one of myhighest values.
And I think when we can show upas our authentic self, we can
(26:18):
live a more fulfilling life.
We can.
follow what it is we're meant tobe doing in life.
And we can also model that andgive permission to other people
who are wanting to do it, butperhaps not knowing how or
whether they should.
So yeah.
Tatiana (26:37):
Yeah.
No.
So, so true.
Beautifully said.
Uh, and I guess you touchedbriefly on, you know, some of
the limitations of beingpsychologists or working
clinically, but also having thisother perspective, the spiritual
perspective.
And I think particularly inAustralia, we have a lot of fear
around what it would mean toembrace that part of ourselves
(26:58):
and the repercussionsprofessionally that could come
from that.
Is this something that you, youjuggled or do you think that
that, Played a role in howquickly you could permit
yourself to connect with thosespiritual inklings or leanings
that started manifesting withinyou.
Hayley (27:15):
Look, I think, I think you're correct in saying there's
a lot of fear within theprofession.
I don't think that has been aparticular fear for me in terms
of my work.
because I guess a lot of thework that I've done and again,
coming back to compassionfocused therapy for me, it's
really about getting to knowyourself, understanding the
(27:39):
parts of self showing up as thehuman being.
Like at the start of thepandemic, I I had a group for
therapists cause I could seethat people were struggling.
And then I started my podcast,which is changed its name now,
but was called caring for thehuman in the therapist chair,
because I just couldn't let goof the fact that you can't not
be who you are as a therapist.
(28:01):
You can try and leave yourselfat the door, but guess what?
It's not going to work.
Like you are sitting in thechair, you are having an
emotional experience to whatyour clients are saying.
You are in a co createdrelationship with the person
sitting across from you.
And, and I always knew formyself and, and do.
Like, you know, I work in thecoaching industry, it's
unregulated, but I know I'mprofessional and ethical.
(28:22):
I don't concern myself aboutall, you know, nobody's telling
me I have to be professionalethical, so I don't need to be.
It's like, well, I know I am.
And.
Bringing who I am to my work hasbeen really helpful for not just
me, but for my clients, bothcoaching and clinical and
supervisees, and I'm not doinganything, you know, and
(28:47):
everybody I know who is, is.
you know, acknowledging theirspiritual side and they're
working as APRA registeredpsychologists.
None of the people I know areout there doing any kind of
wacky stuff.
That's just weird.
That's being made up.
So, so I didn't have that fearcause I can hand on heart, say,
well, I'm professional andethical and I do what's best for
(29:10):
my client and take care ofmyself at the same time.
So, but I, but I know there is alot of.
And I think, you know, when wethink about the three flows of
compassion, not just the selfcompassion, but receiving
compassion from others,
Tatiana (29:26):
Mm.
Hayley (29:27):
this can be really helpful when people are
struggling with this becausethey can seek support and talk
to other people who arenavigating similar things or
have navigated them in the past.
So we, we know that, you know,most helping professionals and,
and many people, whether you'rea health helping professional or
not, don't find givingcompassion to others,
(29:49):
particularly difficult.
In fact, probably do that moreout of balance than the other
two flows.
So I think it's important tokeep all those three flows in
mind so that we can take careof, you know, self care and
community care.
I think it's all important.
Tatiana (30:06):
Yeah.
Oh, beautiful.
And so what value, from yourperspective do you see for
psychologists, therapists, evencoaches to embrace this, like
their spiritual selves, or bemore curious about spirituality
at least?
Hayley (30:23):
I mean, like I say, for me, it's, it's been a journey
that has allowed me to put moretrust in myself really tune in
to that.
Kind of in a voice and that,that knowing that shows up,
which I think is really helpful.
I think if this is somethingthat is of interest to you and
you're trying to block it, thatcan be detrimental.
(30:46):
I think when we're not showingup as our authentic selves,
particularly in the caringprofessions, I think it can
exacerbate.
the problems of burnout for me,and I don't know if this is the
same for everybody, obviously,but for me, as I have embraced
that more spiritual side of me,I'm far more gentle with
Tatiana (31:13):
Mm,
Hayley (31:14):
I'm far more forgiving of myself.
I give myself a lot more spaceand grace, and that has had
amazing flow on effects to myhealth.
It's, it's kind of broadened howI think about the world or the
people, the planet.
I went to change to a plantbased diet about six and a half
(31:37):
years ago.
Tatiana (31:39):
Oh, wow.
Hayley (31:40):
which feels really nice for me and just feels really
aligned.
And how I want to kind of behere in the world.
So I just think it, I think it'slike anything.
If you've got a part of you thatis interested in something or
you've got particular qualitiesabout yourself, if you embrace
(32:00):
them, you can live more fully aswho you are.
If you deny them or try andsuppress them.
Likely is that suppression ofstuff is going to show up
somewhere.
And in my experience, both withmyself and working with
multitude of people, it canoften express in physical and
mental health problems.
Tatiana (32:20):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Are you seeing this with yourclients?
Like have you seen them startingto speak about things in those
spiritual terms withoutsometimes even being aware of
it?
Like I said earlier, I thinkcompassion focused therapy has a
very strong spiritual undertoneto it.
Uh, and people will bringexistential or meaning based
(32:42):
issues to, To us or people likeus without really realizing that
what they're searching for ismore of that spiritual self
connection.
Hayley (32:52):
yeah, absolutely.
And I wonder if some, you know,I've always attracted clients
who, you know, I was, I was acttrained acceptance and
commitment therapy trained, andthere's a lot of mindfulness and
values work in there.
And then of course, compassionfocused therapy.
So I think I, I probably have askewed kind of caseload of
people who are interested in theGetting curious about their
(33:15):
values and what life, how tocreate a meaningful life.
So, I'd say I've probably got abit of a biased audience in
that.
But, but yeah that, that'salways been that, that deeper
work for, for a long time hasalways been of interest to me
rather than kind of the sort ofsuperficial.
Tatiana (33:35):
yeah
Hayley (33:36):
You know, fix, fix some symptoms and, and move on with
your life.
That's not, that's never beenhow I've wanted to kind of work.
So, yeah, I think ultimately,you know, as human beings,
that's what we, we search for,isn't it?
Meaning how do we fit?
Where do we fit?
What's our purpose?
What, you know, What's thereason we get up in the morning?
(33:56):
And you know, I think ViktorFrankl's book, Man's Search for
Meaning, that that was a book Iread many years ago as well.
So as we're having thisconversation, I'm like, Oh,
actually, and there was that,and there was that.
And I think that's part of thehuman experience, isn't it?
It's like, this is, it's hardbeing human.
It's confusing.
The world we live in at themoment is a, looks like an
(34:17):
absolute shitshow.
How do we find our place and ourpurpose and the meaning for
ourselves?
And, and the joy as well.
You know, so I think, I think alot of people are asking these
questions and we can't alwaysfind them in the places we think
(34:40):
we'll find them and we can'talways rely completely on, you
know, experiments done in labsthat are going to give us
answers to things.
I mean, I've always thoughtthat.
I mean, I'm a, you know, I'm ascientist practitioner by
training, but I also think, youknow, I can't know all the
(35:02):
things there are to know.
And as human beings, we can'tknow all the things there are to
know.
I mean, that's, that seemsarrogant to me.
Tatiana (35:12):
Yeah.
It's always evolving.
Isn't it?
I don't think that will everend.
Hayley (35:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
Tatiana (35:17):
Yeah.
What about with your, with yourcoaching clients?
I know that the focus there ismore on, on businesses that
they're building.
Do you see some of these themescoming through there as well?
Hayley (35:27):
Oh,
Tatiana (35:27):
like, I guess the businesses that people want to
build and how they want to beengaging in their businesses.
Yeah.
Hayley (35:33):
Absolutely.
Whilst I'm a business coach, thepremise of my work is changing
your relationship with yourselfand your business.
So it's very values aligned.
It's very much about tuning intohow is this going to work for
you as a human being runningthis, where, what do you want to
be doing?
Like, as far as we know,nobody's come back and told us
(35:55):
otherwise yet.
As far as we know, we get oneprecious life.
So, and you know, for, for manypeople, a lot of time is spent
working in some form or another.
So how do we want to create thatin a way that feels meaningful,
that feels joyful, that supportsthe, the life you want?
(36:16):
I'm very much about, you know,we don't, we, we don't live to
work.
We.
We create a business to supporta lifestyle and our wellbeing.
So yeah, absolutely.
This is, this is work I do withpeople in my business coaching.
Tatiana (36:31):
Yeah.
Very fascinating.
Have you noticed a shift though,like in more recent years where
it's becoming a bigger featurefor people or has it always been
there?
Hayley (36:41):
Well, I think this is, this has always been a premise
of my work.
So I've, I've been, I've beenworking with this kind of
perspective for many, many yearsnow.
So I, I think that's, that'stricky for me to answer.
It's certainly yeah, from myperspective, I've always come
back to these questions.
Tatiana (36:59):
Yeah.
Hayley (37:00):
Yeah,
Tatiana (37:01):
Fair enough.
I only ask because I think evenin a clinical context, I've been
seeing a lot more people coming.
With, uh, more existential basedquestions or some spiritual
concepts that they want todiscuss, which is really
fascinating.
Even though I don't advertisethat I'm a spiritual
psychologist at all, it, itseems to, to still show up in
(37:24):
the room and it's becoming moreand more, more the case probably
in the last, or yeah, Idefinitely want to say the last
five, six years.
It's very curious.
Hayley (37:35):
And, and I
Tatiana (37:36):
dream.
Hayley (37:36):
well, I think, you know, when we are living aligned,
Tatiana (37:40):
Mm.
Yeah.
Hayley (37:41):
I think we do attract the people who have an interest
in the things we're doing.
And again, I don't know how youexplain that.
And maybe it's the way we talkabout things.
Maybe it's the way you show upand model how you're living your
life.
But I think the more we arealigned, the more we attract.
the people that are interestedin that or need the support in
(38:01):
that.
But there's certainly, you know,I, I started talking about, you
know, self care and, and burnoutprevention a long time ago.
And I kind of look at socialmedia now and go, okay, now
everyone's talking about it.
which is fantastic.
It's like, great that we, youknow, I think we can take a long
time to catch up with things.
But that's such an importantthing for all of us, whether
(38:26):
we're health professionals,whether we're running businesses
or not.
I think, you know, if we don'thave our health, mental and
physical, it can be very hard tohave any kind of a,
Tatiana (38:38):
100%.
Absolutely.
So I guess on a finalreflection, if you had to pick
one transformative, uh, aspectof embracing spirituality more
fully, both on a personal and aprofessional level, what aspect
would that be for you?
Hayley (38:55):
I think starting with mindfulness because that allows
you to kind of slow down and payattention to what's happening.
You know, I talk a lot about,about slowing down and tuning in
and regulating our nervoussystem.
But I think that that sort oflearning that mindfulness isn't
having to sit for half an hour,you know, somehow clear your
mind.
(39:16):
I mean, that's just not going tohappen.
We've got this tricky brain andit's made for chatter.
But I think thinking about.
small moments of mindfulnesspractice just to allow you to
start to connect and payattention can be really helpful.
Like I say, I first read themindful path to self compassion,
(39:36):
which I really enjoyed.
And there's so many great books.
around these things anddifferent kind of meditations
and guided stuff and, or evenjust paying attention, you know,
when, when you're making a cupof tea and you're listening to
the kettle boil and you'resmelling the aroma of the tea
(39:58):
can be a place to start.
But I think it, it's that thatallows you to start to tune into
yourself, which I know can behard for some people.
So it's, it's kind of startsmore, what's your next smallest
step?
And just be curious.
Tatiana (40:13):
Hmm.
Yeah.
Beautiful.
And I mean, maybe you've alreadyanswered this question, but I do
have a tradition here where Iget my guests to recommend a
transformative spiritual bookfor our listeners that they can
use to begin their journey forthose that are curious to
explore these more like moredeeply or at least start that
process.
(40:34):
What would be the book?
Would that be the book?
Or do you have others that you'dlike to suggest?
Hayley (40:38):
do you know, say read poetry.
I know it might sound a bitweird.
Read,
Tatiana (40:45):
No,
Hayley (40:46):
some
Tatiana (40:46):
that's a lovely,
Hayley (40:48):
Poetry is something exquisite.
Particular, I, I love a coupleof Persian poets, Hafez and
Rumi, but I think even justreading poetry and seeing what
speaks to you in that can be.
A beautiful spiritual practice,I think.
(41:11):
And the other one that came tome earlier was Viktor Frankl's
Man's Search for Meaning.
I think is a, I think that's abook that everybody should read.
I hate the word should that's abook that everyone could read if
they choose and I wouldrecommend they choose
Tatiana (41:32):
we strongly suggest.
Oh, but I, I agree with you.
I think that book is, is.
It's phenomenal.
It's yeah, people definitelywould get so much from reading
it, but I love that suggestionof poetry.
That's the first time I've hadsomething like that suggested
and it's beautiful becauseyou're right.
(41:53):
Like there's something about artthat's expressed in that way
that connects straight to thesoul.
Doesn't it?
Yeah.
That's lovely.
Thank you.
It's been such a joyousconversation to have you here.
Thank you for agreeing to havethis conversation with me.
Where could people find a littlebit more about what you do?
I know you do so many amazingthings and you've got a podcast
(42:15):
of your own.
Why don't you tell our listenersa little bit about how they can
find you?
Hayley (42:19):
So they can go to my website www.
doctorhayleydquinn.
com That is actually i'm goingi'm in the process of having a
rebrand on your new website.
So, it will change shortly Butthey can find me there.
They can find me on social mediaunder Dr.
Hayley D Quinn on Instagram andFacebook and LinkedIn.
(42:40):
And yeah, I've got a podcastcalled Welcome to Self with Dr.
Hayley D.
Quinn, which is aimed atbusiness owners.
The original early episodes,like I mentioned, were aimed at,
uh, therapists, but that'sreally about there's lots of
stuff.
I've had people who are notbusiness owners that say this
stuff's really helpful.
Anyway, it's, uh, it's really,Part of being human and figuring
(43:01):
all that stuff out.
Tatiana (43:03):
fantastic.
I will put a, uh, links to allof these things on the show
notes as well.
For those of you who want to, tolook into what Hayley has to
offer.
And I really, I highly recommendthat you do.
But yeah, so I'll have all thelinks in the show notes for you
all to explore Hayley's work,but once again, Hayley, thank
you so much for joining metoday.
Hayley (43:24):
Thank you.
Thank you so much for having meon.
It's been a real joy.
Tatiana (43:28):
thank you.
And I hope you all have a lovelyweek and we'll speak next time.
Thank you for tuning in to thisepisode of Integrated Wisdom.
It is my sincere wish thattoday's episode may have
intrigued and inspired you toreclaim your power and step into
becoming more fully integratedspiritual beings.
(43:51):
New episodes are published everysecond Wednesday and I hope
you'll continue to join us as wedive deeper into what it means
to live an integrated life.
So if it feels aligned to you, Iinvite you to hit subscribe and
share it with others who youfeel may benefit too.
You may also find me onInstagram at integrated
underscore wisdom.
(44:13):
Remember each moment is anopportunity to embrace your
divine potential and create aworld that is more frequently
inspired.
So for now, stay connected, stayinspired and keep shining your
light into the world.
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