March 13, 2025 • 62 mins
When Greg Crumpton pulls up his sleeve to reveal his Kaizen tattoo, you understand immediately this isn't just another trades professional – this is someone who has infused continuous improvement into every fiber of his being. The veteran HVAC expert, author, and industry advocate shares a career journey that spans from scribbling notes in a black book while running service calls in the 1980s to building and selling a successful mission-critical air conditioning company.
His perspective cuts through today's workforce challenges with laser precision. "Our inability to take care of our country from a skilled trades aspect is a national security issue," Greg asserts, reframing trade careers as essential to American infrastructure security. This isn't hyperbole – it's the conviction of someone who has witnessed firsthand how skilled labor shortages threaten our fundamental systems.
The conversation explores why today's trades landscape looks so different from decades past. As baby boomers retire and Gen Z enters the workforce, Greg identifies a troubling 30-year experience gap created partly by removing trades education from high schools. His solution emphasizes personal responsibility: "If you're a tradesperson or craftsperson, grab a couple of youngsters and walk with them." His own mentorship approach balances classroom theory with immediate hands-on application, creating what he calls "learning on steroids."
Most powerfully, Greg recasts skilled trades as careers of choice rather than last resort: "We're not the people who had to go to shop class because that's all we could do. We're the people who chose to go to shop class because there's plenty of lawyers and doctors." With 24-year-olds in his company earning $100,000+ and advancement paths leading in countless directions, his message to young people couldn't be clearer – the trades offer not just work, but meaningful, financially rewarding careers building America's future.
Ready to explore the trades with fresh eyes? Listen now and discover why Greg believes his most important mission is helping the next generation become "smarter, more available, more open-minded" than previous generations of tradespeople were allowed to be.
Get the Deep Knowledge at:
http://www.deepknowledge.com/
Connect with Greg at:
http://www.gregcrumpton.com/
Make yourself a priority and get more done: https://www.depthbuilder.com/do-the-damn-thing
Download a PDF copy of Becoming the Promise You are Intended to Be
https://www.depthbuilder.com/books
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Our inability to take care of our country from a
skilled trades aspect is anational security issue.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I had no idea that I was going to have a career in
construction.
I was convinced that I waseither going to be playing for
the Houston Astros or I wasgoing to be an engineer.
And I don't even know.
I don't even know what the hellan engineer looked like.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
We're not the people who had to go to shop class
because that's all we could do.
We're the people who chose togo to shop class because that's
all we could do.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
We're the people who chose to go to shop class
because there's plenty oflawyers and doctors.
What is going on?
L&m family, I have an ultraspecial treat for you, but I
think it's a bigger treat for me.
Today, I get to talk and youget to meet with an HVAC
industry and skilled tradesadvocate, which I think is an
understatement, because he's amonster in the industry, someone
(00:56):
I look up to because I hope tohave the similar impact on the
industry and the world at large,or at least a degree of what
he's done to date.
His name is Mr Greg Crumpton.
He is a friend, tour of mineand a fellow author, which is
something that we just kind ofhappened upon.
Never did I expect a plumberand an HVAC guy who wrote a book
(01:22):
having a conversation, but herewe are On a podcast On a
podcast.
He's also a podcaster.
Oh my God, straight out ofCrumpton.
It just keeps getting better.
He is the author of DeepKnowledge and you'll get to know
a little bit more about himhere shortly.
And, if you're new here, thisis the Learnings and Missteps
podcast, where you get to seehow real people just like you
(01:47):
are sharing their gifts andtalents to leave this world
better than they found it.
I'm Jesse, your selfish servant, and we're going to get to know
Mr Greg Crumpton.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Mr.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Greg, straight out of Crumpton.
How are you doing, sir?
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Jesse, first of all, that introduction of my impact
on the HVAC and social mediaworld was very glowing and I
hope to be able to live up tothat.
But I really do appreciate thetime you've carved out to be
with me today and let's justtalk a little bit.
And we do share so many things.
We're both tradespeople, weboth wound up with a podcast,
(02:25):
we've both written a book and weboth like to help in our own
way.
Who's coming with us and behindus and ahead of us, so it's
just really cool.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
God, Like we're on a podcast right now.
You have your own podcast.
I know for me five years ago,those things that you just
(02:57):
mentioned were nowhere nearanywhere near my vision or
horizon of things that I wouldbe doing or would have done,
much less speaking to you.
When did you see that path ofpodcasting and serving the
industry and writing a book, anddid you have that listed out on
your to-do list?
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yeah, yeah, when I was taking my SAT in
kindergarten.
No, obviously, I've had a lotof really good fortune.
I've met a lot of great peoplethat have helped shape what I do
and how I do it.
Really, jesse, this started forme back in gosh, I don't know
the late 80s.
I was running around Atlanta,georgia, running service calls
(03:37):
for a great company and I wasjust starting to make notes on a
book of things that I would dodifferently if I ever got into a
position to do thingsdifferently.
And they were really simplethings.
Man, like I would pass mycoworkers on the interstate,
like I would be going towardwhere they just came from.
(03:57):
And I'm sitting here wonderingwhy, what are we missing in
dispatching?
Or what are we missing inefficiency?
And there's a million reasonswhy we could have been passing
on the road, but just the spark.
And so, literally, I had alittle black book and I was
making little notes and littlequestions and just digging into
(04:18):
the science of air conditioningbusiness, not just the science
of vapor compression and coldair.
So it started early and therewere many, many naive statements
written.
But because I simply didn't knowand yeah, so you still have
this book, I've got remnants ofit, yeah, yeah, and I think that
(04:44):
as I matured as a technicianand as a human and as a husband
and as a family member andeventually, and as a boss and as
a co-worker, all those andsRight Right up and it never has
(05:07):
been, and I would think a lot ofpeople probably have this is
there's no one clear mission,but there's a vision, with some
haze floating around, and Ithink inquisitive people like
you and I are, we're alwaystrying to see around the cloud
or through the haze, to seewhat's just beyond where we are
or maybe even where we should beat this moment.
(05:30):
There's plenty of room to dig inand keep peeling back the
layers, but we're all wherewe're supposed to be at the
right time.
But I would say it's just beena continuous learning journey.
And then five years ago Istarted straight out of Crumpton
During the pandemic.
(05:52):
I couldn't travel much and Ilike to get out and go, so we
started it just as a way toconnect with people during the
pandemic and now we've done like150 episodes and just it's a
great way to connect, which ishow you and I wound up together
yeah, you gave me the privilegeof being interviewed by you and
(06:13):
hanging out with y'all on yourshow and very similar story.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Covid hit.
I was in lockdown.
I couldn't go and talk aboutcareers in the industry at the
CTE the local high schools and Isaid, man, I need an outlet.
Let me start a podcast tointerview cool people from the
industry.
And it stuck.
I still enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
It's a great way to connect with people and it's a
great way to spend time whenyou're doing something maybe
walking or exercising or evendriving to occupy that wicked
brain of ours so that we'rethinking about the right stuff
and the good stuff rather thanletting the lizard brain take
(06:59):
control and spin us up over BS.
It doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Oh my goodness, oh my goodness, yes and yes.
Now, so you talked about Ithink maybe we're afflicted, I
call it.
The affliction is when we seethese patterns and we can't
ignore them, just like youtalked about.
You're driving one way and yousee your partner driving the
opposite direction where youjust came from, like why is that
(07:26):
happening?
Why doesn't that make sense?
And then there's the otheraffliction of the curious, like
the ravenous appetite to learnand understand things which,
like you said, with podcasts andlike the different type of
media that's out now, we canchoose to nourish our brain and
(07:48):
our interest and our curiosity,or we can consume the garbage
that's readily available foreverybody.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
That really is more of a distraction, yeah it is,
and but some of that's OKno-transcript habits that I keep
(08:28):
going and which ones I need tobreak.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Oh, a hundred percent .
So you already touched on oneof the things that stood out to
me from your book is, in thelater chapters, the quote that
you wrote you can't truly knowwhere to go until you've started
down the path, and so that waskind of earlier.
You're referencing the fog andkind of seeing the thing, trying
(08:54):
to distill what's back there.
When, would you say, thatbecame, I'm going to say, mode
of operation, became obvious toyou, like I just need to keep
doing it this way.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
And so the early thoughts around that occurred.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
And I want to give the L&M family member shout out,
and this one goes to Miss Rocio.
Luna Rocio took the time tosend me this super awesome note
she says I want to thank Jessefor putting this amazing
workshop together for us andshowing us how to manage time
efficiently.
We are all consumed by work,but how much of that is
(09:34):
productive?
How much of that work isgenerating revenue?
What can be leveraged,outsourced?
What are we leaving behind?
When we really get into theweeds, we will see all the white
gaps and you visually see time.
Rocio, thank you for that.
And, folks, if you don't know,we have the Do the Damn Thing
(09:56):
time management workshop that'skicking off again in March.
We'll leave a link down therein the show notes for you to
access if you're interested init.
But, more importantly, send mea note, send me a review.
It doesn't have to be abeautiful, glowing review like
that, just something to let meknow you're out there so that I
can have the opportunity tocelebrate you in the future
(10:26):
school.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
When I got out of the apprenticeship program, I
immediately went in as aninstructor.
Wow, well, I loved it.
I love the industry and Ireally understand the science of
air conditioning, the scienceof electricity.
I just those things click forme really easily.
So once I started teaching, youreally have to know your poop
(10:47):
because if you don't, you'regoing to get called out in a
hurry.
I think that when I starteddigging deeper to be prepared to
teach and I was probably ahorrible teacher but because I
was so young I didn't if I wentand I do a class now for people,
it's a totally differentexperience than 25 year old greg
(11:09):
gave, I'm sure, um sure, butthere were certain things I
learned in that evolution aboutdigging deeper and not settling
for the status quo answer butlike a two-year-old why and
always asking why.
And as annoying as it is for meto hear a two-year-old why and
always asking why, and asannoying as it is for me to hear
a two-year-old these daysbecause I'm 61, that's some
(11:35):
really relevant questions.
They ask because they simplydon't know and to me that's what
keeps me digging of why.
And you get called up.
People talk about what's yourwhy and all this.
I mean that's cool for somepeople.
That's not my gig.
It's just why I needed to knowmore and why I needed to dig
(11:56):
deeper.
So yeah, and it's changed overtime.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, what's the mechanisms, what are all the
bolts and gears that make acertain thing happen.
Another one of my addictions islike evaluating.
Why did I respond that way?
Why did I say that?
Why am I interested in that?
Why does that bug me?
And it's like an endless pit.
Now, the important part is I canusually identify one or two
(12:25):
buttons to push so that I canserve, so I can show up better
and serve better in the future.
And it's the same thing withsystems.
And you know, it's almost likeI really have to focus on
turning it off the why, becauseI drive people crazy and maybe
don't totally appreciate themoment for what it is, but it is
(12:53):
absolutely fundamental in theway I function.
Now, why?
So you finished apprenticeship,and was it a four-year
apprenticeship?
I'm assuming yeah, it was Yep,four years of apprenticeship.
And then you said, okay, I'mgoing to go teach.
And so, again, one of the manyreasons I look up to you is you,
early on, were giving back tothe industry and helping other
people.
Why are there so few folks inthe industry that do make that
(13:16):
investment in teaching anddeveloping the next generation
of craft workers and tradesprofessionals?
Speaker 1 (13:23):
For me, jesse.
I watched my dad and saw he dida similar.
He went through the army, wentto work for the Atlanta Gas
Company, which is now part ofDuke Power, I think but he went
to school at night, put himselfthrough a technical program and
then he became a teacher and youmay have read this in the book.
(13:44):
He was my teacher for two of myyears of apprenticeship, and my
boss and my father.
So we learned a lot about eachother, I promise you that, in a
lot of different levels.
So I think seeing that modeledwas one thing.
And this still bothers me tothis day is to hear our
(14:08):
craftsmen and trade workers talkabout how crappy they think the
industry is, instead of helpingsolve what they think is crappy
.
Everybody would take both arms,at least one, and grab the kid
and hug them and walk themthrough.
We wouldn't be in such a poopshow that we're in with labor.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
I agree, I remember the first journeyman I worked
with that wasn't my dad, and Iunderstand working with my dad.
We did that for about sixmonths and said heck with that
in the professional setting.
Um, anyways, and that guy, hesaid hey, man, I need you to cut
me that piece of cast iron.
Now this is like the week outof high school.
(14:56):
I've never seen cast iron pipein my life, but I've seen clay
pipe hub and spigot, but not nohub, right, and he said I need
you to cut that pipe.
I was like I, how do I cut it?
And he grabbed the snap cutters, the chain cutters, and threw
them at my feet.
So I'm ready to fight, right,and I'm like I don't even know
how to like, how do I use this?
He said you know what?
(15:17):
Grab your plumb bob, goupstairs, drop it down that hole
right there and hold it till Icall you.
I said, yes, sir, I ranupstairs.
I dropped the plumb bob.
He left me up there all morning.
Foreman walks in and says hey,where's the new guy?
And he says, man, he wasgetting in the damn way.
(15:38):
I sent him upstairs to hold theplumb bob.
He didn't need me to hold theplumb bob, he just didn't want
to deal with it.
He didn't need me to hold theplumb bob, he just didn't want
to deal with it and talk aboutdeflated kicking the guts.
Just I.
I was this close to quittingbut I wasn't gonna quit and so
that's branded my brain okay.
(15:58):
This is one thing I will neverdo.
But there was a lot of peoplelike eventually I found a really
great company to work with,with a lot of leaders that
understood the value ofinvesting and passing on the
knowledge.
But I agree with you it's likecome on, just pick one person,
your whole career, just pick oneand develop them.
Let me ask you this I knowyou've invested probably in
(16:23):
thousands of people by now.
What does it feel like to seethem excel in their craft, start
their business, take on moreresponsibility, transform their
earning potential?
Speaker 1 (16:36):
What does that feel like Greg?
It makes me want to cry in areally sweet way, because I've
had the pleasure of helpingpeople buy their first car,
people buy their first home,have two weeks off with pay to
sit with their wife when theyhad a baby Just some special
(16:57):
stuff that happened that I neverput on LinkedIn or something
that was my special day, becauseit's their special day and I
don't want to override their joyor what have you, but I think
when I get to see them excellingat work yes, but because
(17:19):
they're excelling at work, theyget to excel at home.
I think that's even equal, ormaybe even better than
understanding how to use snapcutters.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Ten four.
I mean, that's the thing is.
I remember saying, man, I can'twait to be a foreman because
then I'll get to eat tacos andchill out in my truck all day.
And I got it.
And that's not what it wasabout.
And I said, man, I can't waitto be a superintendent because
then I could just drive aroundall day.
And I got it.
And it was a lot more than justdriving around.
But it finally dawned on melike, man, you're a lead, you
(17:53):
got your crew leader, yourforeman, your superintendent,
you have the livelihoods andcareers of people in your hands,
which is like the ultimate giftand requires huge
responsibility.
But I don't know that everybodysees it that way.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
They don't, Jesse, and there's different categories
of folks.
There's people that show up anddo their job in a poor way.
There's people that show up anddo their work in a spectacular
way, and then there's a nextlevel of person who always wants
to do more, and of coursethat's the ones that you want to
help do more.
(18:33):
But I think one of the missingpieces and you touched on a
little bit is and I thoughtabout this a lot when I was
getting ready to sell my company.
I didn't have 40 employees.
I had 40 families.
I had Girl Scouts and LittleLeague and babies and mamas in
school and sick parents.
(18:53):
If you do the mathematics on it, it's about 130 people that my
decision affected and that's nota big company, but it was our
company and I really tried tomake decisions based on what was
good for that group, not justthe folks who showed up and wore
(19:14):
a uniform or did our invoicingor what have you.
It was the entire circumferenceof everything we touched, and
my wife and I she was my partnerwe made a lot of decisions,
thinking about Chad's kid orLinda's retirement or what have
you, rather than just aboutmaking cold air that day.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Oh, beautiful and amazing.
You know another thing thatpopped into my head and I'm like
ultra grateful for LinkedIn,because that's where we connect
and being able to be connectedwith leaders like you and so
many other leaders.
Now, I'm not saying everybodythat posts on LinkedIn is this
(19:58):
type of leader, because they'renot, but there's a good,
beautiful handful of leadersthat are people-centered and
understand the impact they havebeyond their business KPIs and
delivering the core servicethat's branded on the side of
the truck and you have a careeror a life of walking in that
(20:22):
path.
One of the things that poppedout of me in your book here it
is deep knowledge Y'all need toget a copy of it.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
All right, I got a hat to show too Deep knowledge.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Oh that's the deep knowledge hat and the straight
out of crunk.
So there's a point in there youmake that excellence isn't
created behind the desk.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
What does?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
that mean, and how can people use that to shift
their game?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
A get out from behind your desk.
That's the start.
That's how crafty I am.
You like that?
Yeah, I love it.
That's how crafty I am.
You like that, I love it.
I think the intent of that itreally stemmed from one
conversation that I had with aguy who was my boss one time not
my father and he had fielded acomplaint from a customer of
(21:19):
ours and it was one of myaccounts.
And the guy called in and saidhey, y'all been out here a
couple of times, problems stillexist.
We got to get this resolved.
So this guy calls me, he'sdeceased now, or I would call
his name, but I won't for a lotof reasons.
But he said what's the deal?
(21:39):
And I said, well, here's whathappened the first day, and then
here's what happened the secondday, and then here's what
happened the second time.
And then the third day thishappened and he said stop.
He said the damn building'sstill hot, right.
And I thought, wow, as weird asthat sounds, that hit me like a
(21:59):
bolt of lightning, because Ithen immediately shifted over
into the consumer's position andI saw people coming and going
and hear them on the roof, hearthem in the basement, whatever,
I'm still hot.
So I learned that you got to goout and see what was going on
(22:20):
and the problem turned out to besomething rather benign and not
a difficult fix, but a uniquefix.
But it took a couple of usgoing out there, meeting with
the customer, understanding whathad transpired, talking with
the technician, to put all thattogether.
I never would have gotten thathad I sat in there and played
(22:43):
keyboard warrior.
I had to go, and so I tellpeople now we got airplanes, we
got subway, we got cars, we gottrucks, you got a credit card.
Get the hell out of the officeand go where the action is.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yeah, the keyboard warriors.
I have a special name for them,I call them carpet dwellers.
And when I was in the field Ihad one particular awesome guy
the guy's amazing, but I caughthim right out of college and I
don't know why.
They paired him up with me andof course I tortured him Not as
bad as I was tortured, but Istill tortured him and one of
(23:23):
the biggest problems we had washis overreaction to emails and
his just reluctance to go andsee what the hell was actually
happening.
And through a few iterations wefinally got to cussed each
other a bunch, but we finallygot on the same page.
(23:43):
Man, I'm not trying to be ugly,but I need you to come out here
so that you understand thatwhat Mr GC over there is saying
isn't entirely true.
There's another truth that he'sleaving out, and so do you
think it's this idea orperception of what a manager or
an executive is that lendsitself to camping out behind a
(24:09):
keyboard.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Yeah, I think it's a culture that the company has
built for themselves, becausesome places I've worked where it
was almost the inverse, where,no, you need to go back to the
office and handle that and letme do the field work.
So I think and a lot of it isthe founder or whomever is at
(24:31):
the highest post can set thetone.
I worked for some really goodcompanies and I worked for a
couple of crappy companies, andI'm thankful for both honestly.
And it starts with theleadership, and that can be, as
many people listening know, isnot always the manager by title.
(24:54):
I've had some great fieldleaders who would go to battle
with the managers because themanagers weren't leading the
field well.
And then I've seen some fieldpeople who should be leading
just sit there and take whatevercame down the old highway and
not do what was best for thecompany and mainly insofar as
(25:18):
training and exposure, they justkind of let some young people
get stuck on crappy jobs ratherthan making sure the
apprenticeship or the helperroles were really as robust as
they should be.
When you're a first year,second year, third year, you're
going through these stages andyou're getting the theoretical
(25:41):
knowledge but you need to beable to apply it.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
And I've seen companies that are paying for
apprenticeship but they've gotthird year people changing air
filters for three years in a rowFor three years in a row.
And I've seen someopportunities where some
experienced field leadershipshould have said guys, we've got
to get these young peopleimmersed in the real life or
(26:07):
we're going to be hurting cometwo or three more years.
And we're seeing that on agrand scale.
Yeah, as my peers, the babyboomers are retiring and we've
got a 30-year gap in our window.
We've got some really smart GenZs coming that are really hard
(26:28):
workers when you can find them,pluck them and groom them.
And then you've got some reallygood Xers that are on the way
out.
But, dan, we've got a gap inbetween and that gap was created
by taking trades out of highschools.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
I wrote a piece this morning Until we get our
13-year-olds to the time thatthey're 33, we have got uphill
battle.
And that's where I say ifyou're a tradesperson or a
craftsperson or a surgical techor whatever you are, grab a
couple of youngsters and walkwith them.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Yes, yes, I think this gap that we're, that we
think it's tough now, but I feelin the next seven to 15, it's
really going to hurt andeverybody in that value stream
can contribute, needs tocontribute, to closing that gap.
Now I know that you're a Kaizen, continuous improvement, prefab
(27:28):
minded, like efficiencyoptimist I know.
Oh, you got the Kaizen.
Is that a real tattoo?
It is.
Is that a real tattoo?
It is?
Please tell me what's the storybehind the tattoo.
I?
Speaker 1 (27:41):
started learning about Kaizen and Dr G Edwards
Deming a long time ago and Itook it half-heartedly and I
understood it and practiced it.
And I understood it andpracticed it.
But when I started my companyin 1999, I saw that continuous
(28:03):
improvement was how we weregoing to survive as a small
company in a niche market, whichwas the mission critical air
conditioning side of theindustry, and to be able to go
from one guy in the garage to 40people and selling the business
(28:23):
at a really nice price.
That was a pretty big uphillbattle in the data center
service world against some ofthe people we were competing
with.
But having that mindset, Ithink, really helped us.
And Kaizen is simply doingsomething do the damn thing,
(28:44):
measure it, tweak it, do itagain until you start making
micro changes instead of thingsyou can measure with a yardstick
.
That's when I really became aKaizen advocate, I would say,
and I've got it tattooed on myarm so that I see it often and I
(29:07):
think about it often.
And when I'm making crappydecisions and I get mad and I do
this, it's right there lookingat me.
So for me it's like havingsomething written on a sticky
note on your bathroom mirror.
It's a sticky note to shut up,evaluate and make a good
(29:28):
decision based on the info I gotin front of me.
Not emotional, not becausesomebody pissed me off in an
email, but a good, soliddecision.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
That's what helped it for me.
Oh my, what are the facts?
What does the data say?
What are the contributingfactors?
What can we do to make it justa little bit better?
Yeah, and let's go.
Oh, I love it.
That's ultra cool.
I always joke when I'm doing myworkshops and facilitation that
I have a PDCA tattoo on my back, right above my waist, but you
(30:02):
can't see it unless you sign upfor my fans only account.
But you actually have a Kaizentattoo, which is the ultimate.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
And I have my old company logo tattooed on my back
for the same purpose.
I'm all in, baby.
I'm not skimming the surface.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Again, I said it at the beginning of the call you
are my friend, Tor, and you justadded more things for me to
look up to and aspire to, Greg.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
And I don't have an OnlyFans account, just FYI.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
I'll hook you up on that Now.
I've had this debate withpeople because I understand.
If I only think aboutoptimizing production, it makes
perfect sense for me to havesomebody that's an expert at
doing underground roughing andthat's all that they do.
And then somebody that's anexpert and has a super optimized
system to set fixtures, andthat's all that they do.
And then somebody that has an Xit's an expert and has a super
(30:58):
optimized system to set fixturesand that's all they do.
And all they do is work in ashop and do prefabrication and
pump out skids.
There are economies of scalethere, right, where you can gain
and improve, but what does thatdo to the future of our
industry and how do you manageit so that people don't have end
(31:20):
up with 15 years of experienceof the same year 15 times?
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 1 (31:28):
I'm not a fan of that .
I think there are hugeadvantages to doing it.
Doing it if we had machinesdoing it and not humans.
I think the human psyche needsto be stimulated with outside
influences, not just showing upat the same shop every day,
putting on the same weldingclothes and burning rod it.
(31:51):
That little squirrel insideyour head goes absolutely ape
shit when you give him that kindof headroom.
I totally believe in rotatingpeople on a not a group basis,
but on a person evolving basis.
So you have a core skill groupand then you have a new person
(32:11):
coming into that group.
The old guy or girl leaves andgoes to that group.
So you're moving people butyou're keeping the competent
skill level of the grouprelatively intact.
That is my preference becauseit gives people the ability to
learn different tasks, but italso allows them to interact
(32:33):
with different people, thinkdifferent thoughts, hear
different stuff at lunch,interact with different people,
think different thoughts, heardifferent stuff at lunch.
You know, jesse, tell me whyare you looking at this AI?
What is that going to do for me?
And you and I are having a hamsandwich.
So I get curious at night andI'm looking up AI at home, which
I never would have done had Iworked with the a-hole Preston
(32:54):
forever, who only smokedmarlboro reds and wouldn't talk
to anybody.
So it keeps the brain moving andbecause and we said we were
talking about this in sundayschool last week you have to
keep your brain between theguardrails because our brains
are wicked man.
(33:15):
They're wicked fast.
They love to get into trouble.
That's why we haveconfessionals.
All that stuff that we have tokeep us hemmed up is good
because we need it.
We need leashes.
We run around like damn spidermonkeys when we're off the chain
so we have to have.
(33:35):
We have to have this stuff inour universe, in our parithi,
that we don't necessarily haveto dig a hundred percent into.
But we got to know that there'sother stuff lurking on either
side of us that keeps us movingdown the path and that can be
exposure, that can be learning.
It can be learning a differentlanguage.
It could be learning.
(33:55):
It can be learning a differentlanguage.
It could be just gettinginterested in like boy scout,
and that's something that I'mdoing at church.
We got a boy scout group and Iwas sitting there in sunday
school.
Here's my brain was supposed tobe listening in spider monkey
boy.
He's out here thinking oh yeah,I'm going to start a deal with
(34:19):
our scout master to bringskilled trades people in so that
the scouts get exposure earlier, and yeah, but to my point, I
shouldn't have been thinkingabout that right now.
Sunday school with a lesson infront of me, but that's how.
(34:44):
All that stuff is good for us,though, but it keeps some
guardrails up, so I like therotating group member.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yes, I agree, because you can keep the system process
.
I think the word you use, likethe skill, set stationary, but
you can migrate people throughit and, as they master that,
move them on to the next one andthe whole.
I mean that was the number.
I had no idea that I was goingto have a career in construction
.
Actually, up until that firstsummer that I worked on that job
(35:12):
site, I was convinced that Iwas either going to be playing
for the Houston Astros or I wasgoing to be an engineer and I
don't even know, I don't evenknow what the hell an engineer
looked like.
And then I got on the job siteand I was like this is amazing,
and I think it's the only thingthat I have done for over 20
years.
And I think it's because of thevariability in it the different
(35:36):
addresses, different location,the different people, the
different projects, data centers, hotels, multifamily, like just
the gambit which I need, thatkind of thing Because, like you
said, the spider monkey brain inme I got to keep that bad boy
focused and overloaded,otherwise he runs wild.
(35:57):
Which brings me to anotherpoint.
In the book you talk aboutlearning in a conventional
classroom setting.
Why did you decide to pack thatwith all the other deep nuggets
in here.
Why was that important for youto get out and put for the world
(36:17):
to see?
Speaker 1 (36:19):
I think it takes both ways of learning.
I think that a structuredenvironment is good, especially
for spider monkey brain people,but you have to learn theory.
I'm a huge advocate forunderstanding theory behind
anything.
If youon musk and you're tryingto figure out how to catch a
(36:40):
rocket coming back down, there'sa whole lot of theoretical
assumptions you have to make andunderstand how to clasp the the
arms together at the right time.
If you're plumbingunderstanding, you can't wash a
major by a minor or any of thetheory that goes into the trades
(37:03):
.
I just think you have to learnthat properly and apply it.
And if you do that through anapprenticeship, god bless you,
because if you can learn I wentto school at night, so if I
could learn something at nightand then apply it the next day
at work like holy crap.
Yes, that's like learning onsteroids, because it's fresh and
(37:31):
I learned this thing a whileback about being airplane.
Pilots have this they have to dothese landings and these
different types of landings witheither instrumentation or
flight landing by visualization.
They only have to registeryearly for the instrument
(37:51):
landing.
But if you haven't done that in364 days, you're still legal,
but you're maybe spanking thatairplane on the runway because
you're not current and I've justalways put those two together
of keeping your learning asclose to understanding that a
(38:13):
settling tip is really hot whenit touches your finger oh shit,
all the better.
I'm mentoring a kid right now.
He's a fine young man, henryNealon, last Sunday afternoon.
We're in my garage and he'staking Brazing 101 and
Soft-Sodering 101 in theCrumpton School.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Because his first year in tech school he hasn't
touched a torch.
He's learning theory and he'slearning on the air side and
that's all good, but brother'sgot to learn how to silphos and
he's got to learn how to softsolder.
So I've been helping him in thegarage and he's man.
(38:56):
I wish I could go to do this onthe job site tomorrow and I'm
like, well, tell your journeymanyou're ready to try some of
this and not wait on theclassroom, because if you learn
this today and understanding howto keep the temperature in that
tubing tomorrow and doing it ona job site, it's going to make
a lot more sense for you.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah, did he get.
Did he have any progress withhis journeyman?
Do you know?
Speaker 1 (39:22):
I haven't talked to him since then so I don't know.
I'll get a report.
He doesn't go to schoolWednesday night, so it's usually
I get information dumped onWednesday.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Nice.
Well, good on you and good onhim.
That's what sealed it in for me.
Right, you nailed it.
It was the introduction to thetheory and the science and the
thinking and then being able togo do the damn thing.
It connected in my brain.
The only situation that comesclose like the only learning
(39:58):
situation that comes close towhat I experienced in my
apprenticeship and out thereinstalling things, is starting
my own business.
The difference is this has alot more risk.
I used to read books and listento podcasts and leadership
books and they'd be like, yeah,these are good ideas.
Yeah, I agree with that.
(40:19):
Since I started my business,there ain't no pontificating.
If it applies, I'm putting thedamn thing into practice right
now.
And I got to figure out do thatlittle micro improvements to
make it stick, because I got tostay afloat, my backup plan.
Nobody wants to see me do mybackup plan, and so what are
your thoughts on that?
(40:39):
Starting your own business,building businesses,
entrepreneurship what do youthink the relationship between
that and self-development is?
Speaker 1 (40:50):
So there's a hell of a lot of smart people out there
that can tell you about yourbusiness, that have never ran
one that can tell you about yourbusiness that have never ran
one.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
That's a.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
T-shirt.
The business book section atBarnes Noble is chock full of
people that are on directdeposit for somebody that want
to critique what you're doing.
Damn gangster, I get it.
If you're going to be aconsultant or what have you,
that's fine, but there's nothinglike having beat up knuckles
(41:23):
and scars on my hands for what Ilearned in the field and
there's nothing like the scarson my brain and my heart from
what I learned running thecompany.
And I've said this before, jesseif you've never laid in the
kitchen floor at 3 am on Sundaymorning worried about how to
make payroll, I probably can'thave a really deep conversation
(41:47):
with you about entrepreneurship.
I really can't, because I'vedone that stuff, man.
I've mortgaged everything andbought two trucks to start a
business.
I've made a commitment topeople that I was out over my
skis on and I had to deliver.
I borrowed money to start abusiness and paid it back.
(42:10):
I've done all that and I don'twalk around telling you how to
run your business.
Now.
You and I have talked aboutbusiness ideas how to tweak, how
to maximize, how to massage butfor somebody from Harvard
that's never run a business totell me how to run a business,
man, I struggle with that.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Yeah, wink sauce.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
But the young folks and the old folks alike that I
talk with about running abusiness folks and the old folks
alike that I talk with aboutrunning a business, there's a
kinship there that you have anatural bond with because you
know they've been through thefire and that means a lot of
different things to a lot ofdifferent people.
But battle wounds are battlewounds, regardless of how big
(42:54):
your battle is.
If you're a one man show andyou know you've got a mortgage
or rent or car or healthinsurance payments coming, you
know and you know that you needto get that presentation done so
you can show up.
Well, tomorrow morning your assis going to stay up and do it
Because nobody and my buddy, benOwen, that runs this nonprofit
(43:17):
called we Fight Monsters, ben'sgot a t-shirt that says there's
no one coming.
It's up to us and if you canadopt that mentality, to know
that in life and or especiallyas a business owner, your
shoulders have got to be wideand strong.
(43:38):
Now we can go home and that'sour place of respite and I can
talk to my wife or you can talkto your girlfriend or what have
you about our struggles, but atthe end of the day, people are
counting on you to deliver, andas much as machoism is not in
vogue right now, apparentlyyou've got to be hard man to run
(44:02):
a company.
I'm sorry, but you have to maketough decisions, male or female
.
I'm not saying this is a suchdecisions, male or female.
I'm not saying this is a suchthing, male or female, you carry
the weight and you've got to beable to make those decisions.
Yes, you can tweak them.
Yes, you can do the weave whenyou need to do the weave, but
(44:23):
yes has got to mean yes and nohas got to mean no, unless
there's compelling reason tochange my mind.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
Ten 4.
Speaking of, you mentioned thebusted knuckles and the scars,
the scar tissue on the brain andthe heart.
One of the stories in your booktalked about a request to drop
your price by 5%.
Yeah, can you give us somebackground on that?
Because that to me again, justreinforced you're the real deal,
(44:54):
because I've been underleadership.
That would gladly do that.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
And in the real world that's half your profit and you
can't go around doing that muchor very often or for very long.
So the story behind that isthat I told you and the
listeners that I worked with mydad and he had a job that he was
working on for a high schooland it was a private school and
(45:22):
they had a beautiful auditoriumand they had just invested in
this beautiful hardwood floorand painted the logo on it and
it looked like it had fourinches of shellac on it and it
started buckling due to humidity, oyster, yeah.
So they had to figure out how,and the gym was ventilated but
(45:44):
it was never air conditioned.
So my dad worked with the twoguys that were on the board,
developed a plan how they weregoing to do it.
So they go back and they put itto the fundraising committee.
They raised the money.
Well, by the time they raisedthe money, my dad had contracted
cancer and he had alreadypassed.
(46:06):
So I get the call from thesetwo guys.
My boss actually said these twoguys want to talk to you.
So I call them and I thoughtthey were just going to talk
about my dad's passing and sorryto hear about it and what have
you but?
because they had been friends,work friends, customer friends
like we all have.
They said can you come out tothe school and meet us?
(46:27):
So I went out there and tookthe file with me and had
reviewed the file and what allhe had planned to do and it was
going to be a beautiful job.
And they said we got the moneyup and we're ready to cut you a
purchase order today if you willdo it for 5% less.
And I just remember sittingthere and this sounds dramatic,
(46:49):
but it probably wasn't, but itwas to me mentally.
It's like I sat there for 30minutes and I'm like, okay, dumb
, dumb, you got to say somethingat some point.
I know I need to talk, but mybrain is still working and I'm
like, holy crap, what do I do?
What do I do?
And I'm like I know what Popswould do and I know what I
(47:09):
believe.
And I said I'm sorry, but if Ido that then I'm going to have
to take something out of the job, because if you want the full
Monty, you got to pay the fullprice.
One of the guys said that's agreat answer, because if you had
said anything other than that,we would not give you a purchase
(47:30):
order.
And here's the purchase orderfor the full amount.
So I got a little goose bumpright then telling the story.
But it was just one of thosemoments of recommitting what
your beliefs are.
I'd already tweaked the priceon getting the equipment price
current.
I didn't change the labor.
I didn't change the labor, Ididn't change the crane and all
(47:52):
the stuff that went with it.
So I knew the number was solid.
Yeah, I wanted the job.
But it was like that moment ofintegrity.
Do you cave in to your wimpylittle lizard brain who wants
the purchase order, or do youstand up and say, say no, this
is what the job's worth.
And that's what I did.
And fortunately and the job wasbeautiful, jesse, I'll tell you
(48:16):
, three months go by, we've gotthe engineering done, we've got
the roof opened up, the curbsare in place.
The night before man, it rains.
I'm talking about my soon, ofcourse, I'm laying in bed all
night.
I was going to get up at fouranyway.
(48:37):
I think I got up at two.
I drive up there and I thoughtNoah was going to come by any
moment in the arc and take me up.
So I'm like dude, this is notgood.
Hel is not good helicopterscheduled.
I mean it's a big deal and I'ma young project guy at the time.
Yeah man, right before daylightit was like my old man was up
(49:01):
there conducting the the weatherforecast.
We got a window of about anhour and a half.
We sent four pieces of fourpieces of equipment on that roof
with the helicopter, goteverything dried in and it
started raining again you werebiting your teeth the whole time
(49:23):
and you remember mike mallorywas our sheet metal foreman on
the job and jerry ste, JerryStevens, was our guy doing the
controls and the more of the ACstuff.
And I remember the four of us,or three of us, were standing in
the gym looking up at theequipment hoping that we didn't
have any drips coming through,you know, because it was raining
(49:47):
really hard.
And I remember Mike Mallory who?
He was a Christian man and hesaid your old man had a hand in
this one and I was like God, Ijust wanted to run to the truck
and cry like a little baby.
But it was just a really coolfrom my dad passing, meeting
with the guys at the school,getting the purchase order, and
(50:07):
then the rain window, thehelicopter, the whole deal.
It was just like meant to bekind of deal, but I just thought
I was really putting in thebook.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
Oh, amazing.
So I only have two questionsfor you and they're the easy
ones.
Two more, because otherwiseI'll keep you on here all day.
I'm good with that, All right.
So the first easy one why didyou decide to write this book?
Speaker 1 (50:36):
deep knowledge it's a great question.
A lot of it stems back to mewriting in that black book when
I was a young service technicianof things that stood out and I
had no idea, jesse, that I wouldwrite a dang book or two.
I've got two books now.
The other one just hasn't comeout yet.
(50:58):
I think that I didn't write itfor financial gain, because I
made enough money where I coulddo this thing to satisfy this
need without having to make itcommercialized.
Now don't get me wrong.
I want to sell books.
I'd love to recover my cost onit.
(51:19):
But if I don't sell any booksto make money, but if I can sell
books and help two or threekids decide to make a better
choice about anything, then Iwill feel like it was successful
.
Because there were certaintimes in my life where I found
(51:39):
myself in a position with peoplewhere I needed to make a choice
, and sometimes I really madepoor choices, choices and
sometimes I made good choices.
Had I had my book, maybe Iwould have made more of the
better choices and less of thecrappy choices, because, as good
(52:00):
as my life is, I've done somestuff, like most of us have,
that you're like damn, I wish Ihadn't done that, but I did.
And if I did and I can help somepeople not go through that,
then that's what I'm doing, Ihope.
But I wrote it to purge somethoughts that I had, and not to
(52:23):
and I don't mean purge to getrid of, I meant purge them to
chronicalize them so that Iwould never forget them and
hopefully it'll help somebodyelse.
So those are really the tworeasons was to put my 43 years
into a written text form andthen to help maybe some young
(52:46):
people go.
Yeah, I need to think aboutwhat Crumpton did and I either
do want to do that or don't wantto do that 10, 4, amazing,
Again, amazing, which folks?
Speaker 2 (52:59):
so if people want to get this book, where should we
send them?
Speaker 1 (53:04):
So you can go to deepknowledgeme, like
deepknowledgeme, and that's thelanding page for the book, and
on that page you can click theBarnes Noble tab, which you can
get it on barnesandnoblecom.
And the same thing for Amazon.
There's a Barnes Noble tab andthere's an Amazon tab.
(53:25):
You can get it for your AmazonKindle.
You can get the Kindle version,paperback or hardback.
Or you can go togregcrumptoncom and say, hey,
dude, send me a book and ifanybody wants one I'll sign it
or write some note to your momor something in it.
Whatever you want me to do,it's out there.
I hope that people the peoplethat have bought it and read it
(53:49):
have told me Now maybe they'relying to me.
They've said it's good.
They've said it's good.
Yeah, I concur.
I concur, jess.
I'm a craftsman, I'm a peoplebuilder, I'm not an author and I
write what I live.
And my sister PhD in elementaryeducation.
(54:09):
She helped me edit the book onthe first pass.
What is wrong with you?
Who writes this way?
I know that feeling.
I'm like I do.
And she said you use too manydot dots and too many hyphens
(54:29):
and I'm look man, just do whatyou do, except then I flip it
over to a professional editor.
This lady's no, I love yourstyle.
I'm like, well, you call mysister and tell her it was.
It was really fun, man.
But we do have a second onecoming out.
It's called deep knowledge.
Um, so look for that.
Probably in the fall, maybe Idon't know it's a lot of on the
(54:53):
same lines, but it's a littlebifurcated and a little bit
different vein than the firstone, but similar format.
I tried to keep these thingsreadable.
Oh yeah, the chapters are short.
I try to give a quote to addsome substance, and then I put
three nuggets called tools ofthe trade at the end of each
chapter.
And those are the things that Ilearned about that chapter and
(55:18):
hopefully it just sparks somegood thoughts for folks.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
I'll say this mission accomplished for me.
I love the bite-sizeddigestible chunks.
I love the summary on the backend, the quotes.
I'm like, oh okay, let me.
I even cheated, believe it ornot.
Once I kind of saw the layout Isaid oh well, let me just look
at the quotes.
I'm like, oh okay, I use thatto say, okay, let me read this
(55:42):
whole chapter, because it justgrabbed me more.
It's not chronologically built.
Speaker 1 (55:48):
It doesn't compound, so you can start at chapter 20
or chapter 1 or chapter 40.
It doesn't matter, because theyall stand on their own merit.
They don't rely on the previouschapter.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
Yes, and they're real-life lessons.
They are man.
That's the stuff, all right.
So that was that.
We got the easier question.
You've made so manycontributions, you've breathed
confidence and, we'll say, someextra steam into my life, had
(56:22):
huge impact and I know we'llcontinue to have a huge impact
out there.
So I'm kind of interested inhow meaningful and how deep your
response to this question willbe.
So here's the question what isthe promise you are intended to
be?
Speaker 1 (56:39):
Committed to helping the next generation of worker be
smarter, be more available, bemore open-minded and want to
learn more than my generation ofskilled tradespeople were
allowed to be, because the tidehas shifted.
We're not the people who had togo to shop class because that's
(57:02):
all we could do.
We're the people who chose togo to shop class because there's
plenty of lawyers and doctors.
Jesse, I've said this latelyand I believe this more than I
ever have that our inability totake care of our country from a
skilled trades aspect bridges,water systems, electricity, all
(57:25):
those core skills that are inthe skilled trades is a national
security issue, because if wecan't take care of our country,
we don't need subcontractorsfrom other companies having to
come do that for us.
That should be aself-fulfilling mission.
Maybe people think that's alittle bombastic, but I really
(57:48):
believe that it's a nationalsecurity issue that we have a
workforce that's educated andwants to get up and get after it
.
Speaker 2 (57:59):
Ten four.
All I can say is I agree, greg,yes, and it's an amazing career
, it's an amazing life that justopens up so many different
opportunities.
It's not a dead end, and Iapplaud you for helping people
see that it's not a dead end.
You don't have to stay on yourtools.
You can if you want to, andthat'll be amazing too
(58:21):
Absolutely, but you can continuecarving your own path, and
we're going to need that to stayhealthy and independent.
Speaker 1 (58:30):
No doubt, absolutely.
And look, I mean, you and Icame through in a time where
apprentices and helpers weretreated less than a stellar way.
We're at a different point nowwhere kids can come in, not have
to suffer the hazing and onlyget the good stuff.
Yeah, and that's what we've gotto embrace.
(58:51):
The tide has turned.
This is a great career.
We've got 24-year-olds making$100,000 and more at my company
and that's not a rarity.
That is really doable,especially if somebody raises
their hand and says, put me in,coach 100.
(59:15):
So I'm here to find the kidsthat raise their hand and want
to do more than just show up.
I want to help the kids, andthat could be a 40 year old kid
that's coming out of themilitary and maybe she was a
welder on a ship underwater.
I want to help her get to hernext spot.
Or maybe it's an 18-year-oldgeek who didn't know what he
wanted to do when he got out ofhigh school.
(59:37):
Or maybe it's a lady that wentto school and wanted to be an
educator but can't afford to benow because we don't pay them
enough money.
So there's all kinds ofopportunities for us to envelop
people and bring them in andshow them what life can be.
Speaker 2 (59:55):
Amen, man, you're giving me chills over here, mr
Crumpton.
Speaker 1 (59:59):
I'll give you a big old Texas hug when I see you
next time.
Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
Definitely definitely .
Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
Did you have fun, man ?
I love talking to you and I'mso appreciative of you taking
time.
I love the Saturday morningsy'all do, when I get to tune in
to see you and Jess do yourthing.
Jennifer, what you're doing ismaking an impact.
What others are doing aremaking an impact, but it takes
the community.
It can't be one drum beating.
(01:00:27):
It's got to be a symphony.
And we're getting there.
We're getting there 10-4.
10-4.
Our inability to take care of our country from a
skilled trades aspect is anational security issue.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I had no idea that I was going to have a career in
construction.
I was convinced that I waseither going to be playing for
the Houston Astros or I wasgoing to be an engineer.
And I don't even know.
I don't even know what the hellan engineer looked like.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
We're not the people who had to go to shop class
because that's all we could do.
We're the people who chose togo to shop class because that's
all we could do.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
We're the people who chose to go to shop class
because there's plenty oflawyers and doctors.
What is going on?
L&m family, I have an ultraspecial treat for you, but I
think it's a bigger treat for me.
Today, I get to talk and youget to meet with an HVAC
industry and skilled tradesadvocate, which I think is an
understatement, because he's amonster in the industry, someone
(00:56):
I look up to because I hope tohave the similar impact on the
industry and the world at large,or at least a degree of what
he's done to date.
His name is Mr Greg Crumpton.
He is a friend, tour of mineand a fellow author, which is
something that we just kind ofhappened upon.
Never did I expect a plumberand an HVAC guy who wrote a book
(01:22):
having a conversation, but herewe are On a podcast On a
podcast.
He's also a podcaster.
Oh my God, straight out ofCrumpton.
It just keeps getting better.
He is the author of DeepKnowledge and you'll get to know
a little bit more about himhere shortly.
And, if you're new here, thisis the Learnings and Missteps
podcast, where you get to seehow real people just like you
(01:47):
are sharing their gifts andtalents to leave this world
better than they found it.
I'm Jesse, your selfish servant, and we're going to get to know
Mr Greg Crumpton.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Mr.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Greg, straight out of Crumpton.
How are you doing, sir?
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Jesse, first of all, that introduction of my impact
on the HVAC and social mediaworld was very glowing and I
hope to be able to live up tothat.
But I really do appreciate thetime you've carved out to be
with me today and let's justtalk a little bit.
And we do share so many things.
We're both tradespeople, weboth wound up with a podcast,
(02:25):
we've both written a book and weboth like to help in our own
way.
Who's coming with us and behindus and ahead of us, so it's
just really cool.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
God, Like we're on a podcast right now.
You have your own podcast.
I know for me five years ago,those things that you just
(02:57):
mentioned were nowhere nearanywhere near my vision or
horizon of things that I wouldbe doing or would have done,
much less speaking to you.
When did you see that path ofpodcasting and serving the
industry and writing a book, anddid you have that listed out on
your to-do list?
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yeah, yeah, when I was taking my SAT in
kindergarten.
No, obviously, I've had a lotof really good fortune.
I've met a lot of great peoplethat have helped shape what I do
and how I do it.
Really, jesse, this started forme back in gosh, I don't know
the late 80s.
I was running around Atlanta,georgia, running service calls
(03:37):
for a great company and I wasjust starting to make notes on a
book of things that I would dodifferently if I ever got into a
position to do thingsdifferently.
And they were really simplethings.
Man, like I would pass mycoworkers on the interstate,
like I would be going towardwhere they just came from.
(03:57):
And I'm sitting here wonderingwhy, what are we missing in
dispatching?
Or what are we missing inefficiency?
And there's a million reasonswhy we could have been passing
on the road, but just the spark.
And so, literally, I had alittle black book and I was
making little notes and littlequestions and just digging into
(04:18):
the science of air conditioningbusiness, not just the science
of vapor compression and coldair.
So it started early and therewere many, many naive statements
written.
But because I simply didn't knowand yeah, so you still have
this book, I've got remnants ofit, yeah, yeah, and I think that
(04:44):
as I matured as a technicianand as a human and as a husband
and as a family member andeventually, and as a boss and as
a co-worker, all those andsRight Right up and it never has
(05:07):
been, and I would think a lot ofpeople probably have this is
there's no one clear mission,but there's a vision, with some
haze floating around, and Ithink inquisitive people like
you and I are, we're alwaystrying to see around the cloud
or through the haze, to seewhat's just beyond where we are
or maybe even where we should beat this moment.
(05:30):
There's plenty of room to dig inand keep peeling back the
layers, but we're all wherewe're supposed to be at the
right time.
But I would say it's just beena continuous learning journey.
And then five years ago Istarted straight out of Crumpton
During the pandemic.
(05:52):
I couldn't travel much and Ilike to get out and go, so we
started it just as a way toconnect with people during the
pandemic and now we've done like150 episodes and just it's a
great way to connect, which ishow you and I wound up together
yeah, you gave me the privilegeof being interviewed by you and
(06:13):
hanging out with y'all on yourshow and very similar story.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Covid hit.
I was in lockdown.
I couldn't go and talk aboutcareers in the industry at the
CTE the local high schools and Isaid, man, I need an outlet.
Let me start a podcast tointerview cool people from the
industry.
And it stuck.
I still enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
It's a great way to connect with people and it's a
great way to spend time whenyou're doing something maybe
walking or exercising or evendriving to occupy that wicked
brain of ours so that we'rethinking about the right stuff
and the good stuff rather thanletting the lizard brain take
(06:59):
control and spin us up over BS.
It doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Oh my goodness, oh my goodness, yes and yes.
Now, so you talked about Ithink maybe we're afflicted, I
call it.
The affliction is when we seethese patterns and we can't
ignore them, just like youtalked about.
You're driving one way and yousee your partner driving the
opposite direction where youjust came from, like why is that
(07:26):
happening?
Why doesn't that make sense?
And then there's the otheraffliction of the curious, like
the ravenous appetite to learnand understand things which,
like you said, with podcasts andlike the different type of
media that's out now, we canchoose to nourish our brain and
(07:48):
our interest and our curiosity,or we can consume the garbage
that's readily available foreverybody.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
That really is more of a distraction, yeah it is,
and but some of that's OKno-transcript habits that I keep
(08:28):
going and which ones I need tobreak.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Oh, a hundred percent .
So you already touched on oneof the things that stood out to
me from your book is, in thelater chapters, the quote that
you wrote you can't truly knowwhere to go until you've started
down the path, and so that waskind of earlier.
You're referencing the fog andkind of seeing the thing, trying
(08:54):
to distill what's back there.
When, would you say, thatbecame, I'm going to say, mode
of operation, became obvious toyou, like I just need to keep
doing it this way.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
And so the early thoughts around that occurred.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
And I want to give the L&M family member shout out,
and this one goes to Miss Rocio.
Luna Rocio took the time tosend me this super awesome note
she says I want to thank Jessefor putting this amazing
workshop together for us andshowing us how to manage time
efficiently.
We are all consumed by work,but how much of that is
(09:34):
productive?
How much of that work isgenerating revenue?
What can be leveraged,outsourced?
What are we leaving behind?
When we really get into theweeds, we will see all the white
gaps and you visually see time.
Rocio, thank you for that.
And, folks, if you don't know,we have the Do the Damn Thing
(09:56):
time management workshop that'skicking off again in March.
We'll leave a link down therein the show notes for you to
access if you're interested init.
But, more importantly, send mea note, send me a review.
It doesn't have to be abeautiful, glowing review like
that, just something to let meknow you're out there so that I
can have the opportunity tocelebrate you in the future
(10:26):
school.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
When I got out of the apprenticeship program, I
immediately went in as aninstructor.
Wow, well, I loved it.
I love the industry and Ireally understand the science of
air conditioning, the scienceof electricity.
I just those things click forme really easily.
So once I started teaching, youreally have to know your poop
(10:47):
because if you don't, you'regoing to get called out in a
hurry.
I think that when I starteddigging deeper to be prepared to
teach and I was probably ahorrible teacher but because I
was so young I didn't if I wentand I do a class now for people,
it's a totally differentexperience than 25 year old greg
(11:09):
gave, I'm sure, um sure, butthere were certain things I
learned in that evolution aboutdigging deeper and not settling
for the status quo answer butlike a two-year-old why and
always asking why.
And as annoying as it is for meto hear a two-year-old why and
always asking why, and asannoying as it is for me to hear
a two-year-old these daysbecause I'm 61, that's some
(11:35):
really relevant questions.
They ask because they simplydon't know and to me that's what
keeps me digging of why.
And you get called up.
People talk about what's yourwhy and all this.
I mean that's cool for somepeople.
That's not my gig.
It's just why I needed to knowmore and why I needed to dig
(11:56):
deeper.
So yeah, and it's changed overtime.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, what's the mechanisms, what are all the
bolts and gears that make acertain thing happen.
Another one of my addictions islike evaluating.
Why did I respond that way?
Why did I say that?
Why am I interested in that?
Why does that bug me?
And it's like an endless pit.
Now, the important part is I canusually identify one or two
(12:25):
buttons to push so that I canserve, so I can show up better
and serve better in the future.
And it's the same thing withsystems.
And you know, it's almost likeI really have to focus on
turning it off the why, becauseI drive people crazy and maybe
don't totally appreciate themoment for what it is, but it is
(12:53):
absolutely fundamental in theway I function.
Now, why?
So you finished apprenticeship,and was it a four-year
apprenticeship?
I'm assuming yeah, it was Yep,four years of apprenticeship.
And then you said, okay, I'mgoing to go teach.
And so, again, one of the manyreasons I look up to you is you,
early on, were giving back tothe industry and helping other
people.
Why are there so few folks inthe industry that do make that
(13:16):
investment in teaching anddeveloping the next generation
of craft workers and tradesprofessionals?
Speaker 1 (13:23):
For me, jesse.
I watched my dad and saw he dida similar.
He went through the army, wentto work for the Atlanta Gas
Company, which is now part ofDuke Power, I think but he went
to school at night, put himselfthrough a technical program and
then he became a teacher and youmay have read this in the book.
(13:44):
He was my teacher for two of myyears of apprenticeship, and my
boss and my father.
So we learned a lot about eachother, I promise you that, in a
lot of different levels.
So I think seeing that modeledwas one thing.
And this still bothers me tothis day is to hear our
(14:08):
craftsmen and trade workers talkabout how crappy they think the
industry is, instead of helpingsolve what they think is crappy
.
Everybody would take both arms,at least one, and grab the kid
and hug them and walk themthrough.
We wouldn't be in such a poopshow that we're in with labor.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
I agree, I remember the first journeyman I worked
with that wasn't my dad, and Iunderstand working with my dad.
We did that for about sixmonths and said heck with that
in the professional setting.
Um, anyways, and that guy, hesaid hey, man, I need you to cut
me that piece of cast iron.
Now this is like the week outof high school.
(14:56):
I've never seen cast iron pipein my life, but I've seen clay
pipe hub and spigot, but not nohub, right, and he said I need
you to cut that pipe.
I was like I, how do I cut it?
And he grabbed the snap cutters, the chain cutters, and threw
them at my feet.
So I'm ready to fight, right,and I'm like I don't even know
how to like, how do I use this?
He said you know what?
(15:17):
Grab your plumb bob, goupstairs, drop it down that hole
right there and hold it till Icall you.
I said, yes, sir, I ranupstairs.
I dropped the plumb bob.
He left me up there all morning.
Foreman walks in and says hey,where's the new guy?
And he says, man, he wasgetting in the damn way.
(15:38):
I sent him upstairs to hold theplumb bob.
He didn't need me to hold theplumb bob, he just didn't want
to deal with it.
He didn't need me to hold theplumb bob, he just didn't want
to deal with it and talk aboutdeflated kicking the guts.
Just I.
I was this close to quittingbut I wasn't gonna quit and so
that's branded my brain okay.
(15:58):
This is one thing I will neverdo.
But there was a lot of peoplelike eventually I found a really
great company to work with,with a lot of leaders that
understood the value ofinvesting and passing on the
knowledge.
But I agree with you it's likecome on, just pick one person,
your whole career, just pick oneand develop them.
Let me ask you this I knowyou've invested probably in
(16:23):
thousands of people by now.
What does it feel like to seethem excel in their craft, start
their business, take on moreresponsibility, transform their
earning potential?
Speaker 1 (16:36):
What does that feel like Greg?
It makes me want to cry in areally sweet way, because I've
had the pleasure of helpingpeople buy their first car,
people buy their first home,have two weeks off with pay to
sit with their wife when theyhad a baby Just some special
(16:57):
stuff that happened that I neverput on LinkedIn or something
that was my special day, becauseit's their special day and I
don't want to override their joyor what have you, but I think
when I get to see them excellingat work yes, but because
(17:19):
they're excelling at work, theyget to excel at home.
I think that's even equal, ormaybe even better than
understanding how to use snapcutters.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Ten four.
I mean, that's the thing is.
I remember saying, man, I can'twait to be a foreman because
then I'll get to eat tacos andchill out in my truck all day.
And I got it.
And that's not what it wasabout.
And I said, man, I can't waitto be a superintendent because
then I could just drive aroundall day.
And I got it.
And it was a lot more than justdriving around.
But it finally dawned on melike, man, you're a lead, you
(17:53):
got your crew leader, yourforeman, your superintendent,
you have the livelihoods andcareers of people in your hands,
which is like the ultimate giftand requires huge
responsibility.
But I don't know that everybodysees it that way.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
They don't, Jesse, and there's different categories
of folks.
There's people that show up anddo their job in a poor way.
There's people that show up anddo their work in a spectacular
way, and then there's a nextlevel of person who always wants
to do more, and of coursethat's the ones that you want to
help do more.
(18:33):
But I think one of the missingpieces and you touched on a
little bit is and I thoughtabout this a lot when I was
getting ready to sell my company.
I didn't have 40 employees.
I had 40 families.
I had Girl Scouts and LittleLeague and babies and mamas in
school and sick parents.
(18:53):
If you do the mathematics on it, it's about 130 people that my
decision affected and that's nota big company, but it was our
company and I really tried tomake decisions based on what was
good for that group, not justthe folks who showed up and wore
(19:14):
a uniform or did our invoicingor what have you.
It was the entire circumferenceof everything we touched, and
my wife and I she was my partnerwe made a lot of decisions,
thinking about Chad's kid orLinda's retirement or what have
you, rather than just aboutmaking cold air that day.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Oh, beautiful and amazing.
You know another thing thatpopped into my head and I'm like
ultra grateful for LinkedIn,because that's where we connect
and being able to be connectedwith leaders like you and so
many other leaders.
Now, I'm not saying everybodythat posts on LinkedIn is this
(19:58):
type of leader, because they'renot, but there's a good,
beautiful handful of leadersthat are people-centered and
understand the impact they havebeyond their business KPIs and
delivering the core servicethat's branded on the side of
the truck and you have a careeror a life of walking in that
(20:22):
path.
One of the things that poppedout of me in your book here it
is deep knowledge Y'all need toget a copy of it.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
All right, I got a hat to show too Deep knowledge.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Oh that's the deep knowledge hat and the straight
out of crunk.
So there's a point in there youmake that excellence isn't
created behind the desk.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
What does?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
that mean, and how can people use that to shift
their game?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
A get out from behind your desk.
That's the start.
That's how crafty I am.
You like that?
Yeah, I love it.
That's how crafty I am.
You like that, I love it.
I think the intent of that itreally stemmed from one
conversation that I had with aguy who was my boss one time not
my father and he had fielded acomplaint from a customer of
(21:19):
ours and it was one of myaccounts.
And the guy called in and saidhey, y'all been out here a
couple of times, problems stillexist.
We got to get this resolved.
So this guy calls me, he'sdeceased now, or I would call
his name, but I won't for a lotof reasons.
But he said what's the deal?
(21:39):
And I said, well, here's whathappened the first day, and then
here's what happened the secondday, and then here's what
happened the second time.
And then the third day thishappened and he said stop.
He said the damn building'sstill hot, right.
And I thought, wow, as weird asthat sounds, that hit me like a
(21:59):
bolt of lightning, because Ithen immediately shifted over
into the consumer's position andI saw people coming and going
and hear them on the roof, hearthem in the basement, whatever,
I'm still hot.
So I learned that you got to goout and see what was going on
(22:20):
and the problem turned out to besomething rather benign and not
a difficult fix, but a uniquefix.
But it took a couple of usgoing out there, meeting with
the customer, understanding whathad transpired, talking with
the technician, to put all thattogether.
I never would have gotten thathad I sat in there and played
(22:43):
keyboard warrior.
I had to go, and so I tellpeople now we got airplanes, we
got subway, we got cars, we gottrucks, you got a credit card.
Get the hell out of the officeand go where the action is.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yeah, the keyboard warriors.
I have a special name for them,I call them carpet dwellers.
And when I was in the field Ihad one particular awesome guy
the guy's amazing, but I caughthim right out of college and I
don't know why.
They paired him up with me andof course I tortured him Not as
bad as I was tortured, but Istill tortured him and one of
(23:23):
the biggest problems we had washis overreaction to emails and
his just reluctance to go andsee what the hell was actually
happening.
And through a few iterations wefinally got to cussed each
other a bunch, but we finallygot on the same page.
(23:43):
Man, I'm not trying to be ugly,but I need you to come out here
so that you understand thatwhat Mr GC over there is saying
isn't entirely true.
There's another truth that he'sleaving out, and so do you
think it's this idea orperception of what a manager or
an executive is that lendsitself to camping out behind a
(24:09):
keyboard.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Yeah, I think it's a culture that the company has
built for themselves, becausesome places I've worked where it
was almost the inverse, where,no, you need to go back to the
office and handle that and letme do the field work.
So I think and a lot of it isthe founder or whomever is at
(24:31):
the highest post can set thetone.
I worked for some really goodcompanies and I worked for a
couple of crappy companies, andI'm thankful for both honestly.
And it starts with theleadership, and that can be, as
many people listening know, isnot always the manager by title.
(24:54):
I've had some great fieldleaders who would go to battle
with the managers because themanagers weren't leading the
field well.
And then I've seen some fieldpeople who should be leading
just sit there and take whatevercame down the old highway and
not do what was best for thecompany and mainly insofar as
(25:18):
training and exposure, they justkind of let some young people
get stuck on crappy jobs ratherthan making sure the
apprenticeship or the helperroles were really as robust as
they should be.
When you're a first year,second year, third year, you're
going through these stages andyou're getting the theoretical
(25:41):
knowledge but you need to beable to apply it.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
And I've seen companies that are paying for
apprenticeship but they've gotthird year people changing air
filters for three years in a rowFor three years in a row.
And I've seen someopportunities where some
experienced field leadershipshould have said guys, we've got
to get these young peopleimmersed in the real life or
(26:07):
we're going to be hurting cometwo or three more years.
And we're seeing that on agrand scale.
Yeah, as my peers, the babyboomers are retiring and we've
got a 30-year gap in our window.
We've got some really smart GenZs coming that are really hard
(26:28):
workers when you can find them,pluck them and groom them.
And then you've got some reallygood Xers that are on the way
out.
But, dan, we've got a gap inbetween and that gap was created
by taking trades out of highschools.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
I wrote a piece this morning Until we get our
13-year-olds to the time thatthey're 33, we have got uphill
battle.
And that's where I say ifyou're a tradesperson or a
craftsperson or a surgical techor whatever you are, grab a
couple of youngsters and walkwith them.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Yes, yes, I think this gap that we're, that we
think it's tough now, but I feelin the next seven to 15, it's
really going to hurt andeverybody in that value stream
can contribute, needs tocontribute, to closing that gap.
Now I know that you're a Kaizen, continuous improvement, prefab
(27:28):
minded, like efficiencyoptimist I know.
Oh, you got the Kaizen.
Is that a real tattoo?
It is.
Is that a real tattoo?
It is?
Please tell me what's the storybehind the tattoo.
I?
Speaker 1 (27:41):
started learning about Kaizen and Dr G Edwards
Deming a long time ago and Itook it half-heartedly and I
understood it and practiced it.
And I understood it andpracticed it.
But when I started my companyin 1999, I saw that continuous
(28:03):
improvement was how we weregoing to survive as a small
company in a niche market, whichwas the mission critical air
conditioning side of theindustry, and to be able to go
from one guy in the garage to 40people and selling the business
(28:23):
at a really nice price.
That was a pretty big uphillbattle in the data center
service world against some ofthe people we were competing
with.
But having that mindset, Ithink, really helped us.
And Kaizen is simply doingsomething do the damn thing,
(28:44):
measure it, tweak it, do itagain until you start making
micro changes instead of thingsyou can measure with a yardstick
.
That's when I really became aKaizen advocate, I would say,
and I've got it tattooed on myarm so that I see it often and I
(29:07):
think about it often.
And when I'm making crappydecisions and I get mad and I do
this, it's right there lookingat me.
So for me it's like havingsomething written on a sticky
note on your bathroom mirror.
It's a sticky note to shut up,evaluate and make a good
(29:28):
decision based on the info I gotin front of me.
Not emotional, not becausesomebody pissed me off in an
email, but a good, soliddecision.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
That's what helped it for me.
Oh my, what are the facts?
What does the data say?
What are the contributingfactors?
What can we do to make it justa little bit better?
Yeah, and let's go.
Oh, I love it.
That's ultra cool.
I always joke when I'm doing myworkshops and facilitation that
I have a PDCA tattoo on my back, right above my waist, but you
(30:02):
can't see it unless you sign upfor my fans only account.
But you actually have a Kaizentattoo, which is the ultimate.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
And I have my old company logo tattooed on my back
for the same purpose.
I'm all in, baby.
I'm not skimming the surface.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Again, I said it at the beginning of the call you
are my friend, Tor, and you justadded more things for me to
look up to and aspire to, Greg.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
And I don't have an OnlyFans account, just FYI.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
I'll hook you up on that Now.
I've had this debate withpeople because I understand.
If I only think aboutoptimizing production, it makes
perfect sense for me to havesomebody that's an expert at
doing underground roughing andthat's all that they do.
And then somebody that's anexpert and has a super optimized
system to set fixtures, andthat's all that they do.
And then somebody that has an Xit's an expert and has a super
(30:58):
optimized system to set fixturesand that's all they do.
And all they do is work in ashop and do prefabrication and
pump out skids.
There are economies of scalethere, right, where you can gain
and improve, but what does thatdo to the future of our
industry and how do you manageit so that people don't have end
(31:20):
up with 15 years of experienceof the same year 15 times?
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 1 (31:28):
I'm not a fan of that .
I think there are hugeadvantages to doing it.
Doing it if we had machinesdoing it and not humans.
I think the human psyche needsto be stimulated with outside
influences, not just showing upat the same shop every day,
putting on the same weldingclothes and burning rod it.
(31:51):
That little squirrel insideyour head goes absolutely ape
shit when you give him that kindof headroom.
I totally believe in rotatingpeople on a not a group basis,
but on a person evolving basis.
So you have a core skill groupand then you have a new person
(32:11):
coming into that group.
The old guy or girl leaves andgoes to that group.
So you're moving people butyou're keeping the competent
skill level of the grouprelatively intact.
That is my preference becauseit gives people the ability to
learn different tasks, but italso allows them to interact
(32:33):
with different people, thinkdifferent thoughts, hear
different stuff at lunch,interact with different people,
think different thoughts, heardifferent stuff at lunch.
You know, jesse, tell me whyare you looking at this AI?
What is that going to do for me?
And you and I are having a hamsandwich.
So I get curious at night andI'm looking up AI at home, which
I never would have done had Iworked with the a-hole Preston
(32:54):
forever, who only smokedmarlboro reds and wouldn't talk
to anybody.
So it keeps the brain moving andbecause and we said we were
talking about this in sundayschool last week you have to
keep your brain between theguardrails because our brains
are wicked man.
(33:15):
They're wicked fast.
They love to get into trouble.
That's why we haveconfessionals.
All that stuff that we have tokeep us hemmed up is good
because we need it.
We need leashes.
We run around like damn spidermonkeys when we're off the chain
so we have to have.
(33:35):
We have to have this stuff inour universe, in our parithi,
that we don't necessarily haveto dig a hundred percent into.
But we got to know that there'sother stuff lurking on either
side of us that keeps us movingdown the path and that can be
exposure, that can be learning.
It can be learning a differentlanguage.
It could be learning.
(33:55):
It can be learning a differentlanguage.
It could be just gettinginterested in like boy scout,
and that's something that I'mdoing at church.
We got a boy scout group and Iwas sitting there in sunday
school.
Here's my brain was supposed tobe listening in spider monkey
boy.
He's out here thinking oh yeah,I'm going to start a deal with
(34:19):
our scout master to bringskilled trades people in so that
the scouts get exposure earlier, and yeah, but to my point, I
shouldn't have been thinkingabout that right now.
Sunday school with a lesson infront of me, but that's how.
(34:44):
All that stuff is good for us,though, but it keeps some
guardrails up, so I like therotating group member.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yes, I agree, because you can keep the system process
.
I think the word you use, likethe skill, set stationary, but
you can migrate people throughit and, as they master that,
move them on to the next one andthe whole.
I mean that was the number.
I had no idea that I was goingto have a career in construction
.
Actually, up until that firstsummer that I worked on that job
(35:12):
site, I was convinced that Iwas either going to be playing
for the Houston Astros or I wasgoing to be an engineer and I
don't even know, I don't evenknow what the hell an engineer
looked like.
And then I got on the job siteand I was like this is amazing,
and I think it's the only thingthat I have done for over 20
years.
And I think it's because of thevariability in it the different
(35:36):
addresses, different location,the different people, the
different projects, data centers, hotels, multifamily, like just
the gambit which I need, thatkind of thing Because, like you
said, the spider monkey brain inme I got to keep that bad boy
focused and overloaded,otherwise he runs wild.
(35:57):
Which brings me to anotherpoint.
In the book you talk aboutlearning in a conventional
classroom setting.
Why did you decide to pack thatwith all the other deep nuggets
in here.
Why was that important for youto get out and put for the world
(36:17):
to see?
Speaker 1 (36:19):
I think it takes both ways of learning.
I think that a structuredenvironment is good, especially
for spider monkey brain people,but you have to learn theory.
I'm a huge advocate forunderstanding theory behind
anything.
If youon musk and you're tryingto figure out how to catch a
(36:40):
rocket coming back down, there'sa whole lot of theoretical
assumptions you have to make andunderstand how to clasp the the
arms together at the right time.
If you're plumbingunderstanding, you can't wash a
major by a minor or any of thetheory that goes into the trades
(37:03):
.
I just think you have to learnthat properly and apply it.
And if you do that through anapprenticeship, god bless you,
because if you can learn I wentto school at night, so if I
could learn something at nightand then apply it the next day
at work like holy crap.
Yes, that's like learning onsteroids, because it's fresh and
(37:31):
I learned this thing a whileback about being airplane.
Pilots have this they have to dothese landings and these
different types of landings witheither instrumentation or
flight landing by visualization.
They only have to registeryearly for the instrument
(37:51):
landing.
But if you haven't done that in364 days, you're still legal,
but you're maybe spanking thatairplane on the runway because
you're not current and I've justalways put those two together
of keeping your learning asclose to understanding that a
(38:13):
settling tip is really hot whenit touches your finger oh shit,
all the better.
I'm mentoring a kid right now.
He's a fine young man, henryNealon, last Sunday afternoon.
We're in my garage and he'staking Brazing 101 and
Soft-Sodering 101 in theCrumpton School.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Because his first year in tech school he hasn't
touched a torch.
He's learning theory and he'slearning on the air side and
that's all good, but brother'sgot to learn how to silphos and
he's got to learn how to softsolder.
So I've been helping him in thegarage and he's man.
(38:56):
I wish I could go to do this onthe job site tomorrow and I'm
like, well, tell your journeymanyou're ready to try some of
this and not wait on theclassroom, because if you learn
this today and understanding howto keep the temperature in that
tubing tomorrow and doing it ona job site, it's going to make
a lot more sense for you.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah, did he get.
Did he have any progress withhis journeyman?
Do you know?
Speaker 1 (39:22):
I haven't talked to him since then so I don't know.
I'll get a report.
He doesn't go to schoolWednesday night, so it's usually
I get information dumped onWednesday.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Nice.
Well, good on you and good onhim.
That's what sealed it in for me.
Right, you nailed it.
It was the introduction to thetheory and the science and the
thinking and then being able togo do the damn thing.
It connected in my brain.
The only situation that comesclose like the only learning
(39:58):
situation that comes close towhat I experienced in my
apprenticeship and out thereinstalling things, is starting
my own business.
The difference is this has alot more risk.
I used to read books and listento podcasts and leadership
books and they'd be like, yeah,these are good ideas.
Yeah, I agree with that.
(40:19):
Since I started my business,there ain't no pontificating.
If it applies, I'm putting thedamn thing into practice right
now.
And I got to figure out do thatlittle micro improvements to
make it stick, because I got tostay afloat, my backup plan.
Nobody wants to see me do mybackup plan, and so what are
your thoughts on that?
(40:39):
Starting your own business,building businesses,
entrepreneurship what do youthink the relationship between
that and self-development is?
Speaker 1 (40:50):
So there's a hell of a lot of smart people out there
that can tell you about yourbusiness, that have never ran
one that can tell you about yourbusiness that have never ran
one.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
That's a.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
T-shirt.
The business book section atBarnes Noble is chock full of
people that are on directdeposit for somebody that want
to critique what you're doing.
Damn gangster, I get it.
If you're going to be aconsultant or what have you,
that's fine, but there's nothinglike having beat up knuckles
(41:23):
and scars on my hands for what Ilearned in the field and
there's nothing like the scarson my brain and my heart from
what I learned running thecompany.
And I've said this before, jesseif you've never laid in the
kitchen floor at 3 am on Sundaymorning worried about how to
make payroll, I probably can'thave a really deep conversation
(41:47):
with you about entrepreneurship.
I really can't, because I'vedone that stuff, man.
I've mortgaged everything andbought two trucks to start a
business.
I've made a commitment topeople that I was out over my
skis on and I had to deliver.
I borrowed money to start abusiness and paid it back.
(42:10):
I've done all that and I don'twalk around telling you how to
run your business.
Now.
You and I have talked aboutbusiness ideas how to tweak, how
to maximize, how to massage butfor somebody from Harvard
that's never run a business totell me how to run a business,
man, I struggle with that.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Yeah, wink sauce.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
But the young folks and the old folks alike that I
talk with about running abusiness folks and the old folks
alike that I talk with aboutrunning a business, there's a
kinship there that you have anatural bond with because you
know they've been through thefire and that means a lot of
different things to a lot ofdifferent people.
But battle wounds are battlewounds, regardless of how big
(42:54):
your battle is.
If you're a one man show andyou know you've got a mortgage
or rent or car or healthinsurance payments coming, you
know and you know that you needto get that presentation done so
you can show up.
Well, tomorrow morning your assis going to stay up and do it
Because nobody and my buddy, benOwen, that runs this nonprofit
(43:17):
called we Fight Monsters, ben'sgot a t-shirt that says there's
no one coming.
It's up to us and if you canadopt that mentality, to know
that in life and or especiallyas a business owner, your
shoulders have got to be wideand strong.
(43:38):
Now we can go home and that'sour place of respite and I can
talk to my wife or you can talkto your girlfriend or what have
you about our struggles, but atthe end of the day, people are
counting on you to deliver, andas much as machoism is not in
vogue right now, apparentlyyou've got to be hard man to run
(44:02):
a company.
I'm sorry, but you have to maketough decisions, male or female
.
I'm not saying this is a suchdecisions, male or female.
I'm not saying this is a suchthing, male or female, you carry
the weight and you've got to beable to make those decisions.
Yes, you can tweak them.
Yes, you can do the weave whenyou need to do the weave, but
(44:23):
yes has got to mean yes and nohas got to mean no, unless
there's compelling reason tochange my mind.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
Ten 4.
Speaking of, you mentioned thebusted knuckles and the scars,
the scar tissue on the brain andthe heart.
One of the stories in your booktalked about a request to drop
your price by 5%.
Yeah, can you give us somebackground on that?
Because that to me again, justreinforced you're the real deal,
(44:54):
because I've been underleadership.
That would gladly do that.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
And in the real world that's half your profit and you
can't go around doing that muchor very often or for very long.
So the story behind that isthat I told you and the
listeners that I worked with mydad and he had a job that he was
working on for a high schooland it was a private school and
(45:22):
they had a beautiful auditoriumand they had just invested in
this beautiful hardwood floorand painted the logo on it and
it looked like it had fourinches of shellac on it and it
started buckling due to humidity, oyster, yeah.
So they had to figure out how,and the gym was ventilated but
(45:44):
it was never air conditioned.
So my dad worked with the twoguys that were on the board,
developed a plan how they weregoing to do it.
So they go back and they put itto the fundraising committee.
They raised the money.
Well, by the time they raisedthe money, my dad had contracted
cancer and he had alreadypassed.
(46:06):
So I get the call from thesetwo guys.
My boss actually said these twoguys want to talk to you.
So I call them and I thoughtthey were just going to talk
about my dad's passing and sorryto hear about it and what have
you but?
because they had been friends,work friends, customer friends
like we all have.
They said can you come out tothe school and meet us?
(46:27):
So I went out there and tookthe file with me and had
reviewed the file and what allhe had planned to do and it was
going to be a beautiful job.
And they said we got the moneyup and we're ready to cut you a
purchase order today if you willdo it for 5% less.
And I just remember sittingthere and this sounds dramatic,
(46:49):
but it probably wasn't, but itwas to me mentally.
It's like I sat there for 30minutes and I'm like, okay, dumb
, dumb, you got to say somethingat some point.
I know I need to talk, but mybrain is still working and I'm
like, holy crap, what do I do?
What do I do?
And I'm like I know what Popswould do and I know what I
(47:09):
believe.
And I said I'm sorry, but if Ido that then I'm going to have
to take something out of the job, because if you want the full
Monty, you got to pay the fullprice.
One of the guys said that's agreat answer, because if you had
said anything other than that,we would not give you a purchase
(47:30):
order.
And here's the purchase orderfor the full amount.
So I got a little goose bumpright then telling the story.
But it was just one of thosemoments of recommitting what
your beliefs are.
I'd already tweaked the priceon getting the equipment price
current.
I didn't change the labor.
I didn't change the labor, Ididn't change the crane and all
(47:52):
the stuff that went with it.
So I knew the number was solid.
Yeah, I wanted the job.
But it was like that moment ofintegrity.
Do you cave in to your wimpylittle lizard brain who wants
the purchase order, or do youstand up and say, say no, this
is what the job's worth.
And that's what I did.
And fortunately and the job wasbeautiful, jesse, I'll tell you
(48:16):
, three months go by, we've gotthe engineering done, we've got
the roof opened up, the curbsare in place.
The night before man, it rains.
I'm talking about my soon, ofcourse, I'm laying in bed all
night.
I was going to get up at fouranyway.
(48:37):
I think I got up at two.
I drive up there and I thoughtNoah was going to come by any
moment in the arc and take me up.
So I'm like dude, this is notgood.
Hel is not good helicopterscheduled.
I mean it's a big deal and I'ma young project guy at the time.
Yeah man, right before daylightit was like my old man was up
(49:01):
there conducting the the weatherforecast.
We got a window of about anhour and a half.
We sent four pieces of fourpieces of equipment on that roof
with the helicopter, goteverything dried in and it
started raining again you werebiting your teeth the whole time
(49:23):
and you remember mike mallorywas our sheet metal foreman on
the job and jerry ste, JerryStevens, was our guy doing the
controls and the more of the ACstuff.
And I remember the four of us,or three of us, were standing in
the gym looking up at theequipment hoping that we didn't
have any drips coming through,you know, because it was raining
(49:47):
really hard.
And I remember Mike Mallory who?
He was a Christian man and hesaid your old man had a hand in
this one and I was like God, Ijust wanted to run to the truck
and cry like a little baby.
But it was just a really coolfrom my dad passing, meeting
with the guys at the school,getting the purchase order, and
(50:07):
then the rain window, thehelicopter, the whole deal.
It was just like meant to bekind of deal, but I just thought
I was really putting in thebook.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
Oh, amazing.
So I only have two questionsfor you and they're the easy
ones.
Two more, because otherwiseI'll keep you on here all day.
I'm good with that, All right.
So the first easy one why didyou decide to write this book?
Speaker 1 (50:36):
deep knowledge it's a great question.
A lot of it stems back to mewriting in that black book when
I was a young service technicianof things that stood out and I
had no idea, jesse, that I wouldwrite a dang book or two.
I've got two books now.
The other one just hasn't comeout yet.
(50:58):
I think that I didn't write itfor financial gain, because I
made enough money where I coulddo this thing to satisfy this
need without having to make itcommercialized.
Now don't get me wrong.
I want to sell books.
I'd love to recover my cost onit.
(51:19):
But if I don't sell any booksto make money, but if I can sell
books and help two or threekids decide to make a better
choice about anything, then Iwill feel like it was successful
.
Because there were certaintimes in my life where I found
(51:39):
myself in a position with peoplewhere I needed to make a choice
, and sometimes I really madepoor choices, choices and
sometimes I made good choices.
Had I had my book, maybe Iwould have made more of the
better choices and less of thecrappy choices, because, as good
(52:00):
as my life is, I've done somestuff, like most of us have,
that you're like damn, I wish Ihadn't done that, but I did.
And if I did and I can help somepeople not go through that,
then that's what I'm doing, Ihope.
But I wrote it to purge somethoughts that I had, and not to
(52:23):
and I don't mean purge to getrid of, I meant purge them to
chronicalize them so that Iwould never forget them and
hopefully it'll help somebodyelse.
So those are really the tworeasons was to put my 43 years
into a written text form andthen to help maybe some young
(52:46):
people go.
Yeah, I need to think aboutwhat Crumpton did and I either
do want to do that or don't wantto do that 10, 4, amazing,
Again, amazing, which folks?
Speaker 2 (52:59):
so if people want to get this book, where should we
send them?
Speaker 1 (53:04):
So you can go to deepknowledgeme, like
deepknowledgeme, and that's thelanding page for the book, and
on that page you can click theBarnes Noble tab, which you can
get it on barnesandnoblecom.
And the same thing for Amazon.
There's a Barnes Noble tab andthere's an Amazon tab.
(53:25):
You can get it for your AmazonKindle.
You can get the Kindle version,paperback or hardback.
Or you can go togregcrumptoncom and say, hey,
dude, send me a book and ifanybody wants one I'll sign it
or write some note to your momor something in it.
Whatever you want me to do,it's out there.
I hope that people the peoplethat have bought it and read it
(53:49):
have told me Now maybe they'relying to me.
They've said it's good.
They've said it's good.
Yeah, I concur.
I concur, jess.
I'm a craftsman, I'm a peoplebuilder, I'm not an author and I
write what I live.
And my sister PhD in elementaryeducation.
(54:09):
She helped me edit the book onthe first pass.
What is wrong with you?
Who writes this way?
I know that feeling.
I'm like I do.
And she said you use too manydot dots and too many hyphens
(54:29):
and I'm look man, just do whatyou do, except then I flip it
over to a professional editor.
This lady's no, I love yourstyle.
I'm like, well, you call mysister and tell her it was.
It was really fun, man.
But we do have a second onecoming out.
It's called deep knowledge.
Um, so look for that.
Probably in the fall, maybe Idon't know it's a lot of on the
(54:53):
same lines, but it's a littlebifurcated and a little bit
different vein than the firstone, but similar format.
I tried to keep these thingsreadable.
Oh yeah, the chapters are short.
I try to give a quote to addsome substance, and then I put
three nuggets called tools ofthe trade at the end of each
chapter.
And those are the things that Ilearned about that chapter and
(55:18):
hopefully it just sparks somegood thoughts for folks.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
I'll say this mission accomplished for me.
I love the bite-sizeddigestible chunks.
I love the summary on the backend, the quotes.
I'm like, oh okay, let me.
I even cheated, believe it ornot.
Once I kind of saw the layout Isaid oh well, let me just look
at the quotes.
I'm like, oh okay, I use thatto say, okay, let me read this
(55:42):
whole chapter, because it justgrabbed me more.
It's not chronologically built.
Speaker 1 (55:48):
It doesn't compound, so you can start at chapter 20
or chapter 1 or chapter 40.
It doesn't matter, because theyall stand on their own merit.
They don't rely on the previouschapter.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
Yes, and they're real-life lessons.
They are man.
That's the stuff, all right.
So that was that.
We got the easier question.
You've made so manycontributions, you've breathed
confidence and, we'll say, someextra steam into my life, had
(56:22):
huge impact and I know we'llcontinue to have a huge impact
out there.
So I'm kind of interested inhow meaningful and how deep your
response to this question willbe.
So here's the question what isthe promise you are intended to
be?
Speaker 1 (56:39):
Committed to helping the next generation of worker be
smarter, be more available, bemore open-minded and want to
learn more than my generation ofskilled tradespeople were
allowed to be, because the tidehas shifted.
We're not the people who had togo to shop class because that's
(57:02):
all we could do.
We're the people who chose togo to shop class because there's
plenty of lawyers and doctors.
Jesse, I've said this latelyand I believe this more than I
ever have that our inability totake care of our country from a
skilled trades aspect bridges,water systems, electricity, all
(57:25):
those core skills that are inthe skilled trades is a national
security issue, because if wecan't take care of our country,
we don't need subcontractorsfrom other companies having to
come do that for us.
That should be aself-fulfilling mission.
Maybe people think that's alittle bombastic, but I really
(57:48):
believe that it's a nationalsecurity issue that we have a
workforce that's educated andwants to get up and get after it
.
Speaker 2 (57:59):
Ten four.
All I can say is I agree, greg,yes, and it's an amazing career
, it's an amazing life that justopens up so many different
opportunities.
It's not a dead end, and Iapplaud you for helping people
see that it's not a dead end.
You don't have to stay on yourtools.
You can if you want to, andthat'll be amazing too
(58:21):
Absolutely, but you can continuecarving your own path, and
we're going to need that to stayhealthy and independent.
Speaker 1 (58:30):
No doubt, absolutely.
And look, I mean, you and Icame through in a time where
apprentices and helpers weretreated less than a stellar way.
We're at a different point nowwhere kids can come in, not have
to suffer the hazing and onlyget the good stuff.
Yeah, and that's what we've gotto embrace.
(58:51):
The tide has turned.
This is a great career.
We've got 24-year-olds making$100,000 and more at my company
and that's not a rarity.
That is really doable,especially if somebody raises
their hand and says, put me in,coach 100.
(59:15):
So I'm here to find the kidsthat raise their hand and want
to do more than just show up.
I want to help the kids, andthat could be a 40 year old kid
that's coming out of themilitary and maybe she was a
welder on a ship underwater.
I want to help her get to hernext spot.
Or maybe it's an 18-year-oldgeek who didn't know what he
wanted to do when he got out ofhigh school.
(59:37):
Or maybe it's a lady that wentto school and wanted to be an
educator but can't afford to benow because we don't pay them
enough money.
So there's all kinds ofopportunities for us to envelop
people and bring them in andshow them what life can be.
Speaker 2 (59:55):
Amen, man, you're giving me chills over here, mr
Crumpton.
Speaker 1 (59:59):
I'll give you a big old Texas hug when I see you
next time.
Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
Definitely definitely .
Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
Did you have fun, man ?
I love talking to you and I'mso appreciative of you taking
time.
I love the Saturday morningsy'all do, when I get to tune in
to see you and Jess do yourthing.
Jennifer, what you're doing ismaking an impact.
What others are doing aremaking an impact, but it takes
the community.
It can't be one drum beating.
(01:00:27):
It's got to be a symphony.
And we're getting there.
We're getting there 10-4.
10-4.
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