March 25, 2025 • 26 mins
In this episode, we explore the powerful connection between pets and their owners living in the Downtown Eastside. For many in this community, pets are more than just animals—they are loyal companions offering unconditional love and support in challenging circumstances.
We’ll also dive into the findings from a two-year pilot partnership between BC Housing and the BC SPCA, which sheds light on the unique experiences of pet owners in the DTES and the need for customized, pet-friendly housing policies.
Guests:
Co-Host: Mita Naidu, Director of Content Strategy, BC Housing
Diane Waters, Outreach Specialist - Outreach Programs, BC SPCA
Mandy Isaacs, Assistant Manager, Vancouver Community Animal Centre/Shelter, BC SPCA
British Columbia is in the grips of a housing affordability crisis decades in the making. We need to find innovative solutions.
The Province has an ambitious plan to address the crisis through the largest investment in housing affordability in BC’s history.
Tasked with building tens of thousands of homes in hundreds of communities is BC Housing, the province’s agency responsible for developing, managing, and administering a wide range of subsidized housing and homelessness services across the province.
BC Housing doesn’t do this alone. To address the challenge, it’s working with hundreds of partners. In Let’s Talk Housing Season Three, you’ll get to hear from those delivering exciting affordable housing solutions.
Hosted by Sara Goldvine, episodes address deep-rooted societal issues:
- the right to affordable, accessible and culturally appropriate housing
- mental health challenges
- homelessness
- meeting the needs of women and children leaving violence
- fostering community acceptance
- role of the private sector
- Impacts of climate change on housing.
About BC Housing
BC Housing develops, manages and administers a wide range of subsidized housing options across the province. We also license residential builders, administer owner builder authorizations and carry out research and education that benefits the residential construction industry, consumers and the affordable housing sector.
We work in partnership with the private and non-profit sectors, provincial health authorities and ministries, other levels of government and community groups to develop a range of housing options.
Who we serve
- Individuals who are homeless
- Individuals with disabilities
- Indigenous individuals and families
- Women and children at risk of violence
- Low-income seniors and families
- Buyers of new homes
Learn more about BC Housing here: https://www.bchousing.org/
For more news on our latest projects and developments, visit: https://news.bchousing.org/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Hello and welcome to Let's Talk Housing.
I'm your host, Sara Goldvine.
In today's episode,we'll explore the powerful connection
between pets and their peopleliving in the Downtown Eastside.
For many in this community,pets are more than just animals.
They are loyal companionsoffering unconditional love
and supportin often challenging circumstances.
(00:26):
We'll also talk about the findingsof a two year pilot partnership
between BC Housing and the BCSPCA,which has shed light
on the unique experiences of pet ownersin the Downtown Eastside
and opportunities for customized, petfriendly housing policies.
Joining me for the conversationtoday are Diane Waters,
Outreach Specialist with the BCSPCA,and Mandy Isaacs,
(00:48):
Assistant Manager at the VancouverCommunity Animal centre shelter.
Also joining me is BC Housing’sown Mita Naidu as co-host.
Before we get underway,
I'd like to acknowledge that we'rerecording today's session on the unceded
traditional territories of the Musqueam,Squamish, and Tsleil-Wautuths
who have been caretakers of these landssince time immemorial.
(01:09):
We offer our gratitude to their peoplespast, present, and future.
Also, in full transparency,we are recording today's episode in
November of 2024, and so our conversationreflects the priorities of this time.
Diane.
Mandy,Mita, welcome to Let's Talk Housing.
Thank you so much.
Diane, I'd love if you could just setus off with a little bit of context here.
(01:32):
What is this pilot program thatthe BCSPCA has and why did it get started?
Yeah, absolutely. So,
the BCSPCA has
recently concluded, a two yearpilot program, in conjunction
with the BC Housing organization,in order to try and create pet friendly,
(01:52):
supportive housing spaces within BC
Housing spacesthat are already set up and running.
So, essentially this became
a project after the 2021 decampmentof the Strathcona Park area.
So for background, in 2021 2020,
(02:14):
Strathcona Park in Vancouverhad become a long term transient
centre for a lot of folksthat were unhoused.
So we had quite a few tents
and makeshift lean-tos and shelterskind of set up in this area.
And unfortunately,due to the amount of people
and the amount of pets in that area,
(02:35):
the park became uninhabitableand unsafe for folks to live in.
And so,
it became a goal with BC Housingin conjunction with the government
to get folks out of the parkand into safe spaces to housed.
So BC Housing
really
took off with that and was amazing,except through the experience,
(02:56):
unfortunately, one of the BC Housing staffmembers, was bit by a dog in the park.
And so that kind of ledthe BC Housing staff
to kind of reach out to the BCSPCAto ask for pointers on how
we could potentially avoid these thingsin the future.
And so,
that conversationended up turning into a two year
(03:16):
pilot program where we developed resources
and recommendations for BC Housingmoving forward in pet guardianship.
I was here at that time.
I remember how heated that was.
Two years is not a long time.
And yet here we are, with a lotthat has been done that was not done
right to just over two years ago.
(03:38):
Like this was pretty new.
This approach,at least here in British Columbia.
Can you tell us a little bitabout what you've found so far?
Yeah. So,
the project's first year was
fully geared towards understandingand basically conversation
and relationship building, with folkswho are living in the BC
(03:59):
Housing spaces and also,staff members in BC Housing.
So what we decided to do
in the beginning, before we even startedany of our research, was
we had Camden Consulting,which is an Indigenous consulting firm,
help us kind of navigatehow we were going to approach this.
Considering that the Downtown Eastsidepopulation has a large number
(04:22):
of First Peoples.
And so we really wanted to make surethat we were gearing this in a way
that was equitable, had diversityand inclusion involved in our planning.
So we spent the first 10% of our budgetkind of engaging
with Indigenous coordinators and folksthat may be able to help us
kind of put an Indigenous lensonto the work that we were doing.
(04:43):
And so,one of the main things that we learned,
in the starting process of this was thattalking circles were a really great way
to engage the community,especially our First Peoples.
And when going into spaceswhere there are lots of vulnerable folks,
it made a huge difference to be ableto gather everyone together in a circle,
(05:05):
in a safe space, and to chat about whatthe needs were, and then really go off
of what people in the building were seeingand then also what staff were seeing.
So we started there doing surveyson the ground interviews, talking circles,
and then info sessions with residentswhere we would go into
eleven selected BC Housing sites
(05:26):
and kind of connect with the staffand the residents there to see
what their main concerns were.
So that was our first year,and then the second year of the pilot
was geared towards tackling some of thoseconcerns, providing resources,
for those concerns and trying to mitigateand create initiatives
to kind of assist in levellingthose concerns out or decreasing,
(05:47):
the amount of concernsthat that staff and residents had.
That's so interesting.
Diane, I you know, you've made,as Sara was pointing out, you've made such
big leaps in these kinds of connectionsbetween
human beings and their pets.
Mandy, can you tell us a bitmore about the relationship
between pets and unhoused folks,especially in the Downtown Eastside?
(06:11):
Something I've witnessedis this deep connection.
And I think there is a tieto a very holistic idea
of relationship and family and community,especially in the Downtown Eastside.
Can you tell us more about that?
Yeah. For sure.
I mean, there's no denying the connectionbetween people
(06:32):
and their animals, and it's no differentthan my relationship to my dog.
I depend heavily on my animalsat the end of a long, hard day,
and sometimes it's what gets these peopleup and going and moving.
And like Diane said,our goal is to work with them,
to listen to themand to help provide the resources for them
so that they can keep their familytogether and intact.
(06:56):
And so my role through the CommunityAnimal Centre is to help support
and give them the resourcesthat they need to be able to have safe
pets and safe relationshipswith their animals at home.
What are some of the challengesyou're coming across in that effort?
I think some of the challenges,I think people's perception of why
(07:18):
they should have pets,or if they should have pets
is truly a big challengethat they have to overcome.
I think a lot of people
don't look at the big pictureand see that these animals are what drives
these people to get up every day,and it gives them a purpose in life.
I think some of the challengesthey come up against
(07:38):
is accessibility to veterinary care,
to spay/neuter resources.
Sometimes when they're struggling,simple things
like food and bedding and shelterfor their animals are some things
that they've come up against.
And the SPCA is here to try and helpprovide and mitigate that problem.
There's something really importantabout pets
(08:00):
and the relationships to people'smental health as you're pointing out.
As you mentioned, the mental healthbenefits, but a sense of responsibility,
improved quality of life, companionship,emotional support.
You know, when we thinkof all the benefits that animals
provide their owners, we could keep going.
Yeah.
When you take the judgmentout of people owning animals
(08:24):
and you can
actually see the beautiful sideof some of these marginalized communities
and the relationships with the animalsthat they have, it's a person's problem.
It's our problem to judge these people
and think that they can'thave these animals
because they don't provide the sameenrichment for their animals that we do.
But when you take that judgmentaway from it,
and you actually see the beautifulrelationship and the connection
(08:45):
and that these people will puttheir animals needs before theirs
most days,and for me to be able to support
somebody who feels that passionatelyand who lives that strongly
in a relationship with their animal,all I want to do is support it.
And so that's what I'm here to do.
Tell us a success story.
(09:05):
There's so many that we see everyday
at our centre.
I always say to our team
and to our volunteers,if somebody knocks on our door
and asks for help,we never turn them away.
We don't judgeand we never turn them away.
And we do our absolute bestto try and help them
with whatever situation they're in.
(09:25):
But it doesn't take a lot to really feel
that and to see that connectionbetween people.
I have my own dog.
I take them to worksometimes and walk him home and
we walk by this one building wherethere's a number of residents that live
and they have their pets,
and we know them because they pop bysometimes to ask for things.
(09:47):
And there's this one gentlemanwho has the loveliest, loveliest dog,
and they are just like two peas in a pod.
They just live for each other.
And I know him well from stopping byand we just stopped to chat
because our dogs really love each other.
And I noticed he had a rope for a leash,just a rope.
And it was starting to fray a little bit.
(10:08):
And she was a bit of a puller.
And I said, you know,
you need to come by the shelterand we'll get you a new leash and stuff.
And he had a sore leg, and he saidit was hard for him to get there.
And so I just did a switch right thereon the street, right on the spot.
I was like, you can take my dog'sleash, I'll take yours.
And that way you don't have to worryabout the leash breaking or tethering
(10:29):
and her getting loose,which would be the worst thing for him.
You would think that I handed him$1 million check,
he was so excitedand just so overwhelmed and so grateful
that I was able to give him a leashand just his dog could safely be secured.
And I think that what we don't understanda lot of people is for me,
if my dog's leash is starting to fray and,you know, become a danger, it's
(10:52):
just one more thing on my list of errandsto do that day.
One more thing that I have to rememberto go out and do, and purchase
a new leash for my dog so that, you know,I'm not having the same issue.
But for him,
I changed his day, and I made surethat he and his dog were safe and happy.
So, I mean, it can be something as simpleas just giving somebody a a nice leash.
You know, and just to follow up on that,what can we do?
(11:15):
What can Sara and I do as a regular folk,privileged folk with power?
How can we support programs like this?
I think talking about it is a big thing.
You know, I think a lot of people...
another story
I had is, you know, I was at my daughter’ssoccer game three weeks ago.
It was cold. It was rainy.
(11:38):
I got out of the car thinking,oh, I want to do this.
It’s so cold!
don't want to stand here for two hours.
And, you know, I walked into the washroomat the soccer field and there was a woman
there who had spent the night,probably in the washroom.
She was drying her socks in the dryer,and I instantly thought, oh,
you know, I had a word with myself.
Like, how dare I be so upsetabout having to stand here, you know?
(12:02):
And as we were chattingand I asked her how she was doing
this gigantic dog camewalking out of one of the stalls
of the washroom and he was this gigantic,huge, beautiful pit bull.
And I had a moment with him and chattedand told her he was lovely
and like, you know,had they spent the night there?
And she said they did.
And I said, do you have a jacket for himin this weather
(12:25):
and do you have enough food?And she said, I don't.
And I said, well,the shelter's really close,
so I can give them a calland have them put some stuff aside for you
so that you can swing by and pick it upso that you guys aren't cold tonight.
And so I just had her go and pick up foodand a jacket and a bed and things
for her dog.
And, you know, I made her whole dayand I had the team set it aside.
(12:46):
She went and picked it up.
But then to come outside and,you know, listen to people be like, oh,
she's in the washroom and she shouldn’tbe there, and people shouldn't have pets
if they can't take care of their petsand they don't have a home.
And that is not a solution.
Judging people for having petsand not having a home,
or not having the same resourcesthat we have, is not a solution.
A solution is to help themso that they can have their pets
(13:10):
so that they can be warmand their pets can be fed,
and they can feel likethey're taking care of their animals,
because that's all she had that daywas that dog.
So it's our job to make sure that she canprovide for that dog and continue,
you know, improving her quality of lifeby having a pet.
So what we can do is
we can stop the conversationsthat we have about them not having pets.
(13:32):
We can do donation drives.
If your kids are getting togetherfor Christmas parties,
instead of doing a potluck,do an SPCA donation drive,
you know, reach out to your local centres,find out what specific things they need.
Do they need cat treats?Do they need dog food?
Do they need beds?
Have the kids do a donation drives.
(13:54):
Kids love to contributeand be a part of that.
Have them come in for a tourand see the animals.
So I think the best thing we can dois to not pass judgment
and try and be a part of the solutioninstead of the problem.
So one thing that folks might not be awareof is that BC Housing, our staff
have an annual giving campaign,and I'm raising it
(14:14):
because we're recording this in Novemberand we're actually midway.
We're almost at the end of ourannual giving campaign. And
one ofthe priority charities that BC Housing
staff identified is BCSPCA and Charlie'sPet Food Bank.
Which I think for for new employeesat BC Housing, they're like Hmmm.
And then once folks work here
(14:36):
for a little while or work at workingcommunity can really...
it just makes sense.
I think for some of us who workwith communities to really...
we can see the connection,but maybe some of our listeners don't.
So I'm wondering, Diane,can you help make the connection?
Like why is it so important for folkswho are experiencing housing insecurity,
for folks who are experiencinghomelessness, or for folks who perhaps
(14:59):
are now in stable housing, butwho have had that experience in the past,
what is the link between
having a pet and housing?
Why is that important?
Yeah, that's a really good question.
I think kind of to start off,
the population in the DowntownEastside, it's
such a microcosm and it's so differentthan anywhere else that we see,
(15:23):
especially like provincially for sure,but even nationally, it's tricky
because we live in such a temperateclimate compared to the rest of Canada.
We do get a lot of transient peoplefrom other provinces coming out this way.
Even the folks that are coming out
from different provincesor people who have lived in B.C.
their whole lives, the folksthat are living in the Downtown
Eastsideoften don't have a sense of community
(15:45):
other than their DowntownEastside brothers and sisters.
A lot of them don't have family members
or friends to supportor for whatever reason,
they might be on their own.
And so a lot of these folks,when they do get pets,
have that sense of family,and it's reconnected and they have
companionship and they have loveand they have care in their lives.
(16:07):
And like
Mandy was saying,the human animal bond is so incredible.
It builds such a sense of accountabilityand responsibility.
And we've seen this a number of times,even just working in the Downtown Eastside
or working provincially with the Pet FoodBank program at the SPCA.
It builds a sense of responsibilityin clients
and our service members to do better
(16:30):
for themselvesand to do better for their pets.
For example, I spoke with a manprobably three weeks ago at Charlie's
Pet Food Bank who came by and he wantedto drop off a donation of money,
and we were like, oh, are you sure?
Like, that's really generous.You don't have to.
We're here to just help support.
And he said that in the past few years,he had been accessing the pet food
bank program and that it helped himget through a tough time with his cat.
(16:55):
And now that him and his catwere able to find housing again,
he was able to focus more on finding safehousing with BC Housing,
as opposed to worrying about where he andhis cat are going to get the next meal.
And so he was able to, instead of focusingon figuring out where to get food,
and how to feed his pet,he was able to focus on instead,
(17:16):
finding a safe space to live, figuring outways to kind of get over his addiction.
And since then, he's become waymore stable, in the environment.
And so now that he's comfortable,he wanted to give back to the people
that had been helping him and help othersthe way that we were able to help him.
So, with his donation,
we were able to purchase more pet foodfor other cats that may need assistance.
(17:39):
And so I think that...
And this is like one of many storieswe hear, I've heard of folks
who have completely stoppedusing drugs and alcohol
just because they feel like their petdeserves a more attentive owner,
or I've had people who are going throughharm reduction approaches
to try and wean themselvesaway from their addictions,
(18:04):
but because they have an animal,they're like, oh, I don't want to use me
or my animal for XYZ reasons soI find a safe place for my animal to go.
Wow, I'm doing that.
And it slowly startsbuilding this accountability
and the sense of prideand animal ownership.
And I think that that's really,really good for folks
who are living roughbecause it gives them purpose.
(18:26):
And when you have purpose,there's a reason to move through life.
And so I just think that it's really,really important that
that we're doing this workand that BC Housing is doing this work
and that we continue looking at
animal
welfare and human welfareas, one health, one welfare approach,
meaning that if we want to help animals,
(18:47):
we need to helpthe people associated with the animals.
And we need to also help our environment.
And so since they're all interconnected,we can't do one without the other.
And so I think, like Mandy was saying,trying to have these conversations
and removing bias and trying to understandthat folks who have animals
who may be unhousedor maybe living different than we are,
doesn't mean that they aren't deservingor good pet owners.
(19:10):
I think it's it's just a matter of ourthoughts and feelings towards differences.
And if we can kind of eliminate thatand instead encourage compassion
and assistance, we'll see folksmoving out of these hard, rough spaces
and finding more sustainable waysof assisting themselves and their pets.
And so I think it's a really importantconversation to have.
(19:31):
I'm thinking of listeners
that are owners of propertiesor owners of buildings.
What do we say to them
to help build this kind of referencewhen they are,
you know, dealing with
dangerous pets, dangerous animals,
(19:51):
other owners of private housingin which there are complaints.
What would you say to them to help
alleviate the stigma and the fear?
I think that the resistancethat we're seeing comes
from the negative storieswe're seeing in the media.
A lot of the time, media is focusing on
(20:15):
the bad pit bull who bit a familyfriendly dog at the dog park.
And this pit bull is ownedby XYZ person, right.
So we're really focusing on things that
they're more negative,of course, and we're
focusing on these sensationalized storiesthat don't happen as often as we think
they do, especially when we're talkinglike breed specifics and in rental spaces.
(20:38):
So lack of pet friendly housingis a huge problem that we're seeing.
It's increasingour levels of homelessness.
Because
people would rather choosehomelessness than surrender their pet.
And this is how strong a human animal bondis, that attachment is so strong
that people would rather
live with their dog outsidethan give the dog up to be
(21:01):
in a warm, safe environment.
And so knowing that,I think it's really important that we work
on government relations and chatting about
more pet friendly, accessible housing.
Part of thisis that there are ways to mitigate
behaviours in animalsthat might be deemed negative.
So, for example, a lot of people,when they see
(21:24):
a dog in a muzzle,they think, oh, that's a bad dog.
Whereas realisticallythat's a wonderful pet owner.
That person knows thatmaybe their dog's reactive,
maybe their dog doesn't like men,maybe their dog is scared of children.
Whatever it is, they know thatthere may be a risk of a nip or a jump
(21:44):
and so to kind of mitigate that risk,they do muzzle training with their dogs.
And so that way
they're keeping their dog safe and they'rekeeping the public safe as well.
And these are one of the things that youcan do quite easily, at home by yourself,
just by reinforcement training with treatsto help a dog get used to a muzzle,
or keep your dogs on a leash.
These are all things that you can doto kind
(22:07):
of mitigate any potential risk factors.
And I think that the risk is so muchhigher or lower
than we think it is, like the risk inthe media has been inflated.
So when you'relooking at actual records of,
you know, dogbites, it's not as common as we think.
(22:27):
And if they are, these are thingsthat can be mitigated before it happens.
It's just about knowing the signs andpotentially reaching out for assistance.
So at the BC SPCA,
we do have an animal training programwhich is high welfare training,
specialized trainersthat deal with positive reinforcement only
and are able to assistpeople who may need help
(22:49):
mitigating behaviours in their dogsor training behaviours in their dogs.
So that's a very helpful resource.
And then we also have a ton of educationalinformation
online on our websiteand also within the BC SPCA as well.
So if you're not able to find what you'relooking for online, you're welcome to
email us at any point and we can send youany kind of information, to kind of help
(23:11):
ease any of those nervesor transition periods
with pet ownership and housing.
That's fantastic.
I'd like to squeeze in one final question.
As we look ahead to...
the pilot project has wrapped up.
Mandy, what would your hopes be for,
you know, forhow BC Housing works with the BC SPCA or
(23:35):
the province worked
with the BC SPCA in the years ahead.
I would like to get awayfrom sheltering animals.
And I think in order to do that,we have to have more pet friendly housing.
We have to have more access to
subsidized veterinary care,
spay/neuter clinics, because what happens
is, if we're not providing those resourcesto communities,
(23:58):
then our shelters are becoming overwhelmedwith animals, right?
Which is just another problem in itself.
If an animal is not spayed or neutered,
the shelters are dealing with the 6to 12 kittens or puppies every year
that are coming from that, when we cansimply just spay or neuter the animals.
So for me, more pet friendly housing,
(24:18):
and more subsidizedveterinary care is what I
would like to see change.
Part of our final report with BC Housingwas offering a number of recommendations
and part of this was recommendingthat pet friendly buildings
or social assistance buildings,where social housing is available.
One of the recommendations is having kindof a subsidy per animal in the building.
(24:42):
So the average expenditure on a petper year,
for most people is about $1100in veterinary care.
And so, we do highly recommendthat social housing spaces
keep a little money aside,
for each pet in the buildingin case of emergency,
in case they need to get vaccinated,in case they need to get spayed
or neutered to kind of help mitigatethose problems, like Mandy was saying.
(25:04):
The excessive littersthat are coming into the shelters,
to help with disease spread.
So, making sure animals have their firstround of vaccinations to avoid
spreading these diseasesto other animals in the community.
And I think also the big thing iswe are hoping
to lean away from sheltering animals,and not because
(25:28):
we don't agree with shelteringand we don't want to shelter them.
But realistically, animal
welfare is they do better in a house,in a home environment.
And so leaning more towards fosteringand having animals
stay with their familiesis a huge goal of the BC SPCA.
And in 2025 will be rolling outa new strategic plan.
(25:48):
We've put in a ton of effort and time
into restructuringkind of our goals as an organization.
And the executive leadershipteam have really transformed
the way that we want to help animalsand communities.
So, we will be looking at more outreachprograms,
more assistance in communitiesand more work with vulnerable populations
to ensure that we're proactivelykeeping animals safe,
(26:10):
keeping animals fed, and, keeping animalsin good behavioural standing
so that they don'thave to come into shelters, after all,
they can stay with their families and stayin communities where they're happiest.
And so, that's kind ofwhat our organization is leaning towards.
And hopefully will be effectivein rolling out some pet friendly
housing policies with other organizationsand we'll see some changes.
(26:35):
Excited to see what comes.
Diane and Mandy, thank you so muchfor joining us on Let's Talk Housing.
And specialthanks to Mita for helping cohost today.
We'll talk again soon.
To learn more about BC Housing,including how to apply for
subsidized housing in BritishColumbia, visit bchousing.org.
(26:57):
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or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
Hello and welcome to Let's Talk Housing.
I'm your host, Sara Goldvine.
In today's episode,we'll explore the powerful connection
between pets and their peopleliving in the Downtown Eastside.
For many in this community,pets are more than just animals.
They are loyal companionsoffering unconditional love
and supportin often challenging circumstances.
(00:26):
We'll also talk about the findingsof a two year pilot partnership
between BC Housing and the BCSPCA,which has shed light
on the unique experiences of pet ownersin the Downtown Eastside
and opportunities for customized, petfriendly housing policies.
Joining me for the conversationtoday are Diane Waters,
Outreach Specialist with the BCSPCA,and Mandy Isaacs,
(00:48):
Assistant Manager at the VancouverCommunity Animal centre shelter.
Also joining me is BC Housing’sown Mita Naidu as co-host.
Before we get underway,
I'd like to acknowledge that we'rerecording today's session on the unceded
traditional territories of the Musqueam,Squamish, and Tsleil-Wautuths
who have been caretakers of these landssince time immemorial.
(01:09):
We offer our gratitude to their peoplespast, present, and future.
Also, in full transparency,we are recording today's episode in
November of 2024, and so our conversationreflects the priorities of this time.
Diane.
Mandy,Mita, welcome to Let's Talk Housing.
Thank you so much.
Diane, I'd love if you could just setus off with a little bit of context here.
(01:32):
What is this pilot program thatthe BCSPCA has and why did it get started?
Yeah, absolutely. So,
the BCSPCA has
recently concluded, a two yearpilot program, in conjunction
with the BC Housing organization,in order to try and create pet friendly,
(01:52):
supportive housing spaces within BC
Housing spacesthat are already set up and running.
So, essentially this became
a project after the 2021 decampmentof the Strathcona Park area.
So for background, in 2021 2020,
(02:14):
Strathcona Park in Vancouverhad become a long term transient
centre for a lot of folksthat were unhoused.
So we had quite a few tents
and makeshift lean-tos and shelterskind of set up in this area.
And unfortunately,due to the amount of people
and the amount of pets in that area,
(02:35):
the park became uninhabitableand unsafe for folks to live in.
And so,
it became a goal with BC Housingin conjunction with the government
to get folks out of the parkand into safe spaces to housed.
So BC Housing
really
took off with that and was amazing,except through the experience,
(02:56):
unfortunately, one of the BC Housing staffmembers, was bit by a dog in the park.
And so that kind of ledthe BC Housing staff
to kind of reach out to the BCSPCAto ask for pointers on how
we could potentially avoid these thingsin the future.
And so,
that conversationended up turning into a two year
(03:16):
pilot program where we developed resources
and recommendations for BC Housingmoving forward in pet guardianship.
I was here at that time.
I remember how heated that was.
Two years is not a long time.
And yet here we are, with a lotthat has been done that was not done
right to just over two years ago.
(03:38):
Like this was pretty new.
This approach,at least here in British Columbia.
Can you tell us a little bitabout what you've found so far?
Yeah. So,
the project's first year was
fully geared towards understandingand basically conversation
and relationship building, with folkswho are living in the BC
(03:59):
Housing spaces and also,staff members in BC Housing.
So what we decided to do
in the beginning, before we even startedany of our research, was
we had Camden Consulting,which is an Indigenous consulting firm,
help us kind of navigatehow we were going to approach this.
Considering that the Downtown Eastsidepopulation has a large number
(04:22):
of First Peoples.
And so we really wanted to make surethat we were gearing this in a way
that was equitable, had diversityand inclusion involved in our planning.
So we spent the first 10% of our budgetkind of engaging
with Indigenous coordinators and folksthat may be able to help us
kind of put an Indigenous lensonto the work that we were doing.
(04:43):
And so,one of the main things that we learned,
in the starting process of this was thattalking circles were a really great way
to engage the community,especially our First Peoples.
And when going into spaceswhere there are lots of vulnerable folks,
it made a huge difference to be ableto gather everyone together in a circle,
(05:05):
in a safe space, and to chat about whatthe needs were, and then really go off
of what people in the building were seeingand then also what staff were seeing.
So we started there doing surveyson the ground interviews, talking circles,
and then info sessions with residentswhere we would go into
eleven selected BC Housing sites
(05:26):
and kind of connect with the staffand the residents there to see
what their main concerns were.
So that was our first year,and then the second year of the pilot
was geared towards tackling some of thoseconcerns, providing resources,
for those concerns and trying to mitigateand create initiatives
to kind of assist in levellingthose concerns out or decreasing,
(05:47):
the amount of concernsthat that staff and residents had.
That's so interesting.
Diane, I you know, you've made,as Sara was pointing out, you've made such
big leaps in these kinds of connectionsbetween
human beings and their pets.
Mandy, can you tell us a bitmore about the relationship
between pets and unhoused folks,especially in the Downtown Eastside?
(06:11):
Something I've witnessedis this deep connection.
And I think there is a tieto a very holistic idea
of relationship and family and community,especially in the Downtown Eastside.
Can you tell us more about that?
Yeah. For sure.
I mean, there's no denying the connectionbetween people
(06:32):
and their animals, and it's no differentthan my relationship to my dog.
I depend heavily on my animalsat the end of a long, hard day,
and sometimes it's what gets these peopleup and going and moving.
And like Diane said,our goal is to work with them,
to listen to themand to help provide the resources for them
so that they can keep their familytogether and intact.
(06:56):
And so my role through the CommunityAnimal Centre is to help support
and give them the resourcesthat they need to be able to have safe
pets and safe relationshipswith their animals at home.
What are some of the challengesyou're coming across in that effort?
I think some of the challenges,I think people's perception of why
(07:18):
they should have pets,or if they should have pets
is truly a big challengethat they have to overcome.
I think a lot of people
don't look at the big pictureand see that these animals are what drives
these people to get up every day,and it gives them a purpose in life.
I think some of the challengesthey come up against
(07:38):
is accessibility to veterinary care,
to spay/neuter resources.
Sometimes when they're struggling,simple things
like food and bedding and shelterfor their animals are some things
that they've come up against.
And the SPCA is here to try and helpprovide and mitigate that problem.
There's something really importantabout pets
(08:00):
and the relationships to people'smental health as you're pointing out.
As you mentioned, the mental healthbenefits, but a sense of responsibility,
improved quality of life, companionship,emotional support.
You know, when we thinkof all the benefits that animals
provide their owners, we could keep going.
Yeah.
When you take the judgmentout of people owning animals
(08:24):
and you can
actually see the beautiful sideof some of these marginalized communities
and the relationships with the animalsthat they have, it's a person's problem.
It's our problem to judge these people
and think that they can'thave these animals
because they don't provide the sameenrichment for their animals that we do.
But when you take that judgmentaway from it,
and you actually see the beautifulrelationship and the connection
(08:45):
and that these people will puttheir animals needs before theirs
most days,and for me to be able to support
somebody who feels that passionatelyand who lives that strongly
in a relationship with their animal,all I want to do is support it.
And so that's what I'm here to do.
Tell us a success story.
(09:05):
There's so many that we see everyday
at our centre.
I always say to our team
and to our volunteers,if somebody knocks on our door
and asks for help,we never turn them away.
We don't judgeand we never turn them away.
And we do our absolute bestto try and help them
with whatever situation they're in.
(09:25):
But it doesn't take a lot to really feel
that and to see that connectionbetween people.
I have my own dog.
I take them to worksometimes and walk him home and
we walk by this one building wherethere's a number of residents that live
and they have their pets,
and we know them because they pop bysometimes to ask for things.
(09:47):
And there's this one gentlemanwho has the loveliest, loveliest dog,
and they are just like two peas in a pod.
They just live for each other.
And I know him well from stopping byand we just stopped to chat
because our dogs really love each other.
And I noticed he had a rope for a leash,just a rope.
And it was starting to fray a little bit.
(10:08):
And she was a bit of a puller.
And I said, you know,
you need to come by the shelterand we'll get you a new leash and stuff.
And he had a sore leg, and he saidit was hard for him to get there.
And so I just did a switch right thereon the street, right on the spot.
I was like, you can take my dog'sleash, I'll take yours.
And that way you don't have to worryabout the leash breaking or tethering
(10:29):
and her getting loose,which would be the worst thing for him.
You would think that I handed him$1 million check,
he was so excitedand just so overwhelmed and so grateful
that I was able to give him a leashand just his dog could safely be secured.
And I think that what we don't understanda lot of people is for me,
if my dog's leash is starting to fray and,you know, become a danger, it's
(10:52):
just one more thing on my list of errandsto do that day.
One more thing that I have to rememberto go out and do, and purchase
a new leash for my dog so that, you know,I'm not having the same issue.
But for him,
I changed his day, and I made surethat he and his dog were safe and happy.
So, I mean, it can be something as simpleas just giving somebody a a nice leash.
You know, and just to follow up on that,what can we do?
(11:15):
What can Sara and I do as a regular folk,privileged folk with power?
How can we support programs like this?
I think talking about it is a big thing.
You know, I think a lot of people...
another story
I had is, you know, I was at my daughter’ssoccer game three weeks ago.
It was cold. It was rainy.
(11:38):
I got out of the car thinking,oh, I want to do this.
It’s so cold!
don't want to stand here for two hours.
And, you know, I walked into the washroomat the soccer field and there was a woman
there who had spent the night,probably in the washroom.
She was drying her socks in the dryer,and I instantly thought, oh,
you know, I had a word with myself.
Like, how dare I be so upsetabout having to stand here, you know?
(12:02):
And as we were chattingand I asked her how she was doing
this gigantic dog camewalking out of one of the stalls
of the washroom and he was this gigantic,huge, beautiful pit bull.
And I had a moment with him and chattedand told her he was lovely
and like, you know,had they spent the night there?
And she said they did.
And I said, do you have a jacket for himin this weather
(12:25):
and do you have enough food?And she said, I don't.
And I said, well,the shelter's really close,
so I can give them a calland have them put some stuff aside for you
so that you can swing by and pick it upso that you guys aren't cold tonight.
And so I just had her go and pick up foodand a jacket and a bed and things
for her dog.
And, you know, I made her whole dayand I had the team set it aside.
(12:46):
She went and picked it up.
But then to come outside and,you know, listen to people be like, oh,
she's in the washroom and she shouldn’tbe there, and people shouldn't have pets
if they can't take care of their petsand they don't have a home.
And that is not a solution.
Judging people for having petsand not having a home,
or not having the same resourcesthat we have, is not a solution.
A solution is to help themso that they can have their pets
(13:10):
so that they can be warmand their pets can be fed,
and they can feel likethey're taking care of their animals,
because that's all she had that daywas that dog.
So it's our job to make sure that she canprovide for that dog and continue,
you know, improving her quality of lifeby having a pet.
So what we can do is
we can stop the conversationsthat we have about them not having pets.
(13:32):
We can do donation drives.
If your kids are getting togetherfor Christmas parties,
instead of doing a potluck,do an SPCA donation drive,
you know, reach out to your local centres,find out what specific things they need.
Do they need cat treats?Do they need dog food?
Do they need beds?
Have the kids do a donation drives.
(13:54):
Kids love to contributeand be a part of that.
Have them come in for a tourand see the animals.
So I think the best thing we can dois to not pass judgment
and try and be a part of the solutioninstead of the problem.
So one thing that folks might not be awareof is that BC Housing, our staff
have an annual giving campaign,and I'm raising it
(14:14):
because we're recording this in Novemberand we're actually midway.
We're almost at the end of ourannual giving campaign. And
one ofthe priority charities that BC Housing
staff identified is BCSPCA and Charlie'sPet Food Bank.
Which I think for for new employeesat BC Housing, they're like Hmmm.
And then once folks work here
(14:36):
for a little while or work at workingcommunity can really...
it just makes sense.
I think for some of us who workwith communities to really...
we can see the connection,but maybe some of our listeners don't.
So I'm wondering, Diane,can you help make the connection?
Like why is it so important for folkswho are experiencing housing insecurity,
for folks who are experiencinghomelessness, or for folks who perhaps
(14:59):
are now in stable housing, butwho have had that experience in the past,
what is the link between
having a pet and housing?
Why is that important?
Yeah, that's a really good question.
I think kind of to start off,
the population in the DowntownEastside, it's
such a microcosm and it's so differentthan anywhere else that we see,
(15:23):
especially like provincially for sure,but even nationally, it's tricky
because we live in such a temperateclimate compared to the rest of Canada.
We do get a lot of transient peoplefrom other provinces coming out this way.
Even the folks that are coming out
from different provincesor people who have lived in B.C.
their whole lives, the folksthat are living in the Downtown
Eastsideoften don't have a sense of community
(15:45):
other than their DowntownEastside brothers and sisters.
A lot of them don't have family members
or friends to supportor for whatever reason,
they might be on their own.
And so a lot of these folks,when they do get pets,
have that sense of family,and it's reconnected and they have
companionship and they have loveand they have care in their lives.
(16:07):
And like
Mandy was saying,the human animal bond is so incredible.
It builds such a sense of accountabilityand responsibility.
And we've seen this a number of times,even just working in the Downtown Eastside
or working provincially with the Pet FoodBank program at the SPCA.
It builds a sense of responsibilityin clients
and our service members to do better
(16:30):
for themselvesand to do better for their pets.
For example, I spoke with a manprobably three weeks ago at Charlie's
Pet Food Bank who came by and he wantedto drop off a donation of money,
and we were like, oh, are you sure?
Like, that's really generous.You don't have to.
We're here to just help support.
And he said that in the past few years,he had been accessing the pet food
bank program and that it helped himget through a tough time with his cat.
(16:55):
And now that him and his catwere able to find housing again,
he was able to focus more on finding safehousing with BC Housing,
as opposed to worrying about where he andhis cat are going to get the next meal.
And so he was able to, instead of focusingon figuring out where to get food,
and how to feed his pet,he was able to focus on instead,
(17:16):
finding a safe space to live, figuring outways to kind of get over his addiction.
And since then, he's become waymore stable, in the environment.
And so now that he's comfortable,he wanted to give back to the people
that had been helping him and help othersthe way that we were able to help him.
So, with his donation,
we were able to purchase more pet foodfor other cats that may need assistance.
(17:39):
And so I think that...
And this is like one of many storieswe hear, I've heard of folks
who have completely stoppedusing drugs and alcohol
just because they feel like their petdeserves a more attentive owner,
or I've had people who are going throughharm reduction approaches
to try and wean themselvesaway from their addictions,
(18:04):
but because they have an animal,they're like, oh, I don't want to use me
or my animal for XYZ reasons soI find a safe place for my animal to go.
Wow, I'm doing that.
And it slowly startsbuilding this accountability
and the sense of prideand animal ownership.
And I think that that's really,really good for folks
who are living roughbecause it gives them purpose.
(18:26):
And when you have purpose,there's a reason to move through life.
And so I just think that it's really,really important that
that we're doing this workand that BC Housing is doing this work
and that we continue looking at
animal
welfare and human welfareas, one health, one welfare approach,
meaning that if we want to help animals,
(18:47):
we need to helpthe people associated with the animals.
And we need to also help our environment.
And so since they're all interconnected,we can't do one without the other.
And so I think, like Mandy was saying,trying to have these conversations
and removing bias and trying to understandthat folks who have animals
who may be unhousedor maybe living different than we are,
doesn't mean that they aren't deservingor good pet owners.
(19:10):
I think it's it's just a matter of ourthoughts and feelings towards differences.
And if we can kind of eliminate thatand instead encourage compassion
and assistance, we'll see folksmoving out of these hard, rough spaces
and finding more sustainable waysof assisting themselves and their pets.
And so I think it's a really importantconversation to have.
(19:31):
I'm thinking of listeners
that are owners of propertiesor owners of buildings.
What do we say to them
to help build this kind of referencewhen they are,
you know, dealing with
dangerous pets, dangerous animals,
(19:51):
other owners of private housingin which there are complaints.
What would you say to them to help
alleviate the stigma and the fear?
I think that the resistancethat we're seeing comes
from the negative storieswe're seeing in the media.
A lot of the time, media is focusing on
(20:15):
the bad pit bull who bit a familyfriendly dog at the dog park.
And this pit bull is ownedby XYZ person, right.
So we're really focusing on things that
they're more negative,of course, and we're
focusing on these sensationalized storiesthat don't happen as often as we think
they do, especially when we're talkinglike breed specifics and in rental spaces.
(20:38):
So lack of pet friendly housingis a huge problem that we're seeing.
It's increasingour levels of homelessness.
Because
people would rather choosehomelessness than surrender their pet.
And this is how strong a human animal bondis, that attachment is so strong
that people would rather
live with their dog outsidethan give the dog up to be
(21:01):
in a warm, safe environment.
And so knowing that,I think it's really important that we work
on government relations and chatting about
more pet friendly, accessible housing.
Part of thisis that there are ways to mitigate
behaviours in animalsthat might be deemed negative.
So, for example, a lot of people,when they see
(21:24):
a dog in a muzzle,they think, oh, that's a bad dog.
Whereas realisticallythat's a wonderful pet owner.
That person knows thatmaybe their dog's reactive,
maybe their dog doesn't like men,maybe their dog is scared of children.
Whatever it is, they know thatthere may be a risk of a nip or a jump
(21:44):
and so to kind of mitigate that risk,they do muzzle training with their dogs.
And so that way
they're keeping their dog safe and they'rekeeping the public safe as well.
And these are one of the things that youcan do quite easily, at home by yourself,
just by reinforcement training with treatsto help a dog get used to a muzzle,
or keep your dogs on a leash.
These are all things that you can doto kind
(22:07):
of mitigate any potential risk factors.
And I think that the risk is so muchhigher or lower
than we think it is, like the risk inthe media has been inflated.
So when you'relooking at actual records of,
you know, dogbites, it's not as common as we think.
(22:27):
And if they are, these are thingsthat can be mitigated before it happens.
It's just about knowing the signs andpotentially reaching out for assistance.
So at the BC SPCA,
we do have an animal training programwhich is high welfare training,
specialized trainersthat deal with positive reinforcement only
and are able to assistpeople who may need help
(22:49):
mitigating behaviours in their dogsor training behaviours in their dogs.
So that's a very helpful resource.
And then we also have a ton of educationalinformation
online on our websiteand also within the BC SPCA as well.
So if you're not able to find what you'relooking for online, you're welcome to
email us at any point and we can send youany kind of information, to kind of help
(23:11):
ease any of those nervesor transition periods
with pet ownership and housing.
That's fantastic.
I'd like to squeeze in one final question.
As we look ahead to...
the pilot project has wrapped up.
Mandy, what would your hopes be for,
you know, forhow BC Housing works with the BC SPCA or
(23:35):
the province worked
with the BC SPCA in the years ahead.
I would like to get awayfrom sheltering animals.
And I think in order to do that,we have to have more pet friendly housing.
We have to have more access to
subsidized veterinary care,
spay/neuter clinics, because what happens
is, if we're not providing those resourcesto communities,
(23:58):
then our shelters are becoming overwhelmedwith animals, right?
Which is just another problem in itself.
If an animal is not spayed or neutered,
the shelters are dealing with the 6to 12 kittens or puppies every year
that are coming from that, when we cansimply just spay or neuter the animals.
So for me, more pet friendly housing,
(24:18):
and more subsidizedveterinary care is what I
would like to see change.
Part of our final report with BC Housingwas offering a number of recommendations
and part of this was recommendingthat pet friendly buildings
or social assistance buildings,where social housing is available.
One of the recommendations is having kindof a subsidy per animal in the building.
(24:42):
So the average expenditure on a petper year,
for most people is about $1100in veterinary care.
And so, we do highly recommendthat social housing spaces
keep a little money aside,
for each pet in the buildingin case of emergency,
in case they need to get vaccinated,in case they need to get spayed
or neutered to kind of help mitigatethose problems, like Mandy was saying.
(25:04):
The excessive littersthat are coming into the shelters,
to help with disease spread.
So, making sure animals have their firstround of vaccinations to avoid
spreading these diseasesto other animals in the community.
And I think also the big thing iswe are hoping
to lean away from sheltering animals,and not because
(25:28):
we don't agree with shelteringand we don't want to shelter them.
But realistically, animal
welfare is they do better in a house,in a home environment.
And so leaning more towards fosteringand having animals
stay with their familiesis a huge goal of the BC SPCA.
And in 2025 will be rolling outa new strategic plan.
(25:48):
We've put in a ton of effort and time
into restructuringkind of our goals as an organization.
And the executive leadershipteam have really transformed
the way that we want to help animalsand communities.
So, we will be looking at more outreachprograms,
more assistance in communitiesand more work with vulnerable populations
to ensure that we're proactivelykeeping animals safe,
(26:10):
keeping animals fed, and, keeping animalsin good behavioural standing
so that they don'thave to come into shelters, after all,
they can stay with their families and stayin communities where they're happiest.
And so, that's kind ofwhat our organization is leaning towards.
And hopefully will be effectivein rolling out some pet friendly
housing policies with other organizationsand we'll see some changes.
(26:35):
Excited to see what comes.
Diane and Mandy, thank you so muchfor joining us on Let's Talk Housing.
And specialthanks to Mita for helping cohost today.
We'll talk again soon.
To learn more about BC Housing,including how to apply for
subsidized housing in BritishColumbia, visit bchousing.org.
(26:57):
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