November 20, 2023 • 50 mins
Hey Lifers,
Britt had a big surprise this week and Laura had a wonderful family holiday; except for one part where she said something to a stranger that has made us want the ground to swallow us up!
We unpack the redemption story that the Kardashians are trying to pull off with one of the world's most notorious cheaters Tristan Thompson.
It raised the questions if your sister's or friend's partner cheated on them, and they forgave them, do you have to as well? Do you have to be okay with whatever they decide? Does it depend on the specific situation and what happened with the cheating?
We also discuss the documentary on Netflix "Take Care of Maya" and the court case that resulted in a $211 million payout last week. We speak about Maya's mother being mislabelled as having Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy and the tragic outcome for their family that resulted.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Life on Cut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country. We
pay our respects to their elders past and present, Always was,
always will be Aboriginal Land. This episode was recorded on
d rug Wallamuta Land. Hi guys, and welcome back to
(00:22):
another episode of Life on Cut. I'm Laura, and I'm
a very happy Brittany. Why are you so happy? Actually,
I know why you're happy. Okay, I feel like a
piece of shit right now, so i'd finish my egg freezing.
You're a good looking piece of shit though. If I
undid there's a reason I wore bag your pants today.
If I undid my pants, you would see a little pop,
(00:42):
barely like blow the blow. So I finished the egg freezing. Finally,
Well it's not blowed. It's genuinely the two weeks of
double dose hormones that I've had, and I had the
extraction on Saturday. This is now Monday that we're recording,
and for the last two days I cannot exaggerate this
is the third time I've done this. But I could
not move. It was actually so painful and it hasn't
(01:03):
been before. And I think it's because of the double
dose of the hormones. I was like sprawled out on
my back on the lounge. I couldn't get up because
the belly is so painful. It's not that it's so big,
it's so painful that you can't bend. So you know
how pregnant people can't bend, so they have to keep
really straight and like hustle up and hold their back
and roll to the side. And that's what I was
doing to get around the house. I couldn't sit on
(01:24):
the toilet properly. It was a rough couple of days,
which I haven't experienced before.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
But luckily you had a big strong man there to
carry you to the toilet and to the bed and
to the appointments. Because guess who's in town, baby, Well
not anymore, I guess who was in town, baby Ben.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Bless his soul, and I was so happy. Ben flew
in to surprise me. I mean, he told me two
days before he was coming. Like it wasn't it. He
didn't turn up at my door, but he decided really
last minute to attempt to get two days off so
he could come here. He flew across the world for
two and a half days. He was here with me
for the operation for the procedure. He looked after me
and he just left late last night and it was
(02:01):
just made my year. I was so happy. I was
really happy. Yeah, and it was. We were actually really
in a point of really struggling, if I've been honest,
because it's the longest we've spent apart, it'll be about
three months, and that's a really long time, especially when
you've got hormones, like a body ragion of hormones. We
were really struggling.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Do you feel like a couple of days was enough
to overcome the feelings of you know, when you get
to that point in long distance where you've not seen
each other enough so like you're picking fights.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Obviously yoursitration was was double fault with all the hormones.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
But do you think that that was enough of like
a little top up of the cup that you're all
back to good.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah. It was definitely the top up we both needed.
And it was really hard to say goodbye. We hate it,
We hate saying goodbye, but I guess it's always harder
when you're the person leaving, like when you're the one
that has to get back on the flight and go back.
But my life just is normal. It's always hard to
being that person. But we did, I say we. I
did get eight eggs this time. First time I got fifteen,
second time I got none, and this time I got
(03:00):
eight to a little a bit dodgy, So probably going
to be like six quality, but two a bit dodge.
It's like they're okay, and you'd freeze them in case
I'll use the other ones first, Like when you're open twelve, yeah,
a dozen eggs and one's got a little crack in
it all one's got all the spots on it. You're like,
I won't use that one, or I'll use that last.
That's what two of my eggs were like. But this
is so much better than the last time. So if
(03:20):
all of.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Those eight or six or however many are like juicy, right, great,
we're good.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
We're not doing it again. Yeah, yeah, I want to
say never again. That's what I want to say. The
only time I'll do it again is IVF. Obviously it's
like the making of the umbros and playing embryos if
I have to go down that track, but I don't
want to think about that yet.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Well, while you were in Sydney and not having a
copious amount of sexy times, which is very rare for
you guys. Usually when you're in the same room together,
it's ween ban Thank you, ma'am.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, we couldn't have sex. It was a disaster at all. Honestly.
We did once or twice, but I can't explain. And
everyone is listening that has done this process, you'll know,
it's just so painful. Everything inside you were swollen to
the tenth degree. That's the whole point, right, It's to
swell your ovaries and your follicles, and you're like, here's
for anything else in there? It was so sore it out.
That's when you go for the back and knee brit
(04:11):
that's when you can bring it on in. I didn't
even think of that, or the neck or the underarm.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Anyway, if you guys didn't come to the last show
or you haven't listened to Early Doors Life on cart
you might not remember that, and we don't need to
go into it.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
It's okay, there's your imagination.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Anyways, moving along, if you listen to the episode that
Keisha n I did last Tuesday, I was talking about
how Matt and I we had I won your wedding
anniversary and how long term relationships go through ebbs and
flows of like the intensity of being in love and
then the lack of intensity of the long terminus of
your relationship and your two children. But no going away
(04:45):
for us for three nights, it was exactly what we
needed to have, those moments of like, oh my.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
God, we love each other. La Lulu, like do you
feel like you can? And I asked this because I'm
not in the position, and I also watch your Instagram
stories and it looked like a crazy, crazy nightmare. I
saw Matt putting a video up of like just the
alarm you want or the best alarm, and it was
like Lola banging on the table and like making all
this noise at six am? Do you feel like you
really can romantically? And I guess emotionally reconnect when you
(05:13):
still do have like two kids there that are depending
on you for life. No, do you know what?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
It's funny for us because I think a lot of times,
I think that there are definitely times where you want
to carve out time just with your partner and just
have one on one. But I also think for us,
and especially for Matt, because like, no, that's not one
is he fucking loves being a dad, and he loves
feeling like he's doing a good job of the whole
dadding thing. So like his perfect holiday is going somewhere
(05:38):
that has a big pool and being in the pool
with the kids all day, like that really fills his cup.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
He and by the pool with a margarita, and mine was.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Spending half an hour at the adult's pool having a
frozen coconut margarita, which was truly a really exceptional part
of my weekend.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Did you actually Yeah? I mean Matt was doing work
and the.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Kids were asleep, and I was like, how do you
feel if I just pop up cross the way for
a moment.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
No, I mean I think it's fine to have time. Yeah,
I love it.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
You have to, you have to have time that's independent
of But like for Matt, he absolutely loves it. And
I think it's his enthusiasm for being a dad that
makes it so joyful. When you have someone who actually
really loves playing with them, really loves the whole look
at me, look at me, it changes the whole vibe
of the holiday. So we had a fucking amazing time.
So no divorce, no divorces. I did have something that
(06:26):
happened to me, which every time I think about it,
I feel a little bit sick, and I want to
tell you. So we're at a restaurant. Took the kids
out for dinner at an Italian restaurant.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
It was great.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
They were in great spirits, and by great spirits, I
mean they were highly energetic and running around the restaurant
like absolute fucking animals. Now, there was this big table
that was sitting next to us, and they had a
little kid as well, and the kids were all playing
together out in the grass. When your kids are like
this and you're in a restaurant, you're not really in
a conversation, right, because you're spending all your time trying
to just manage your children and stop them and stop
(06:58):
them from like annoying other people, stop them from hurting themselves,
stop them from ruining everybody else's night. So I was
at the front and the kids were like running around
like crazy out the front, and they'd found this little
boy that they were playing with, and the little boy's
parents were out the front too, and then some of
their friends. Anyway, we were kind of having a bit
of a half conversation, but the conversation wasn't really because
(07:19):
we were spending so much time with the kids, Like
the concentration was on the kids that it was like
half conversations. You're not really paying attention to what each
other's is saying properly because you're.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Like on the kids. Got it.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
So there they are running around and this woman has
been there with this big table of people. Then look
that they're having a really nice time. There was like
fifteen of them. And I was like, oh, how are
you going. Yeah, nice to meet you all. Like, oh,
you're here with such a big group and she was like, yeah,
I'm here with my family and my friends. I was like,
oh my god, that's so nice. It must be so
nice to catch up together. And then she said something
and I was like, it's so hard as adults to
(07:52):
like make time to hang out together and you know,
like be friends. And she kept looking at me a
bit confused, and so I was trying to explain how,
you know, when you're a parent, it can be really
hard to carve out time with your friends, but it's
so amazing to come away and have a big group
of friends together, and she goes, yeah, I mean, I
guess it is nice to have so many people here
(08:13):
to scatter my dad's ashes.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
I'm sorry, Oh, Laura, I wanted to die. I wanted
to die.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
I was like, I'm so sorry. I missed that part
of the conversation. I just didn't hear her say that
because I was.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
You on the kids. You guys are computrating with the kids.
Oh my god, I'm so mortified. I'm actually mortified for you.
I want to die. Keisha has tears in her eyes.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Cia.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Why are you crying? That's an extreme reaction. I'm on
the hormones. Bad guys.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
I was humiliated, and I am not laughing at the situation.
It's fucking horrific. I am laughing at me because how
does this happen to someone? I literally as she said it,
and she looked so confused, and I must have looked
so confused.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
You're so jolly about my father. I was like, God,
I wish my girlfriends would come away on a trip
with me. I'm going to tell you a story that
might make you feel better. No, no, this is going
to make you feel better. My mom's going to kill
me for telling this story. My mom works in a
bedding store, what like a bed bathroom table betting? Yeah,
(09:23):
you like your mom works in gambling. My mom's a
gambler I profession. No, my mom works in bedding like, No,
she doesn't works in betting. No, Laura, she's don't go
to it for a tip. She watched Game of Sport
and a line. My mom is really good on the
horse racing. No, my mom is not that person. My
mom works in a bedding like a bed bath table
kind of a store, right she casually she works in Manchester.
(09:46):
She just works in like a bed bath and table
ish kind of store where you know they do all
the linen and bedding and mattresses and beautiful stuff. She
loves it. She loves it. She gets to go in,
she chats to people, She has a great time. Not
that long ago, and I don't remember if I told
this on the podcast, but not that long ago, she
did something similar. She was talking to a customer. The
customer was an older lady and she had a bunch
of towels in her hand. She wanted to buy some
(10:07):
new towels and they were going between conversations. This is
this happened to me.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
It was like multiple things were happening. Children were running around.
I was like, Oh, you're from blah blah, blah, like
we just would.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
I think sometimes my mom must just tune out. I know,
sometimes my mum chowed out. So she's talking to the
lady and they're talking about towels blah blah blah blah,
and the conversation takes a turn and then my mom says, oh, well, yes,
you know, they don't last forever, do they, the towels
the town. Mum's talking about towns. The towers don't last,
(10:43):
and she's like, oh, I guess not. And Mom's like,
you know, I'm sure they had a good innings because
they like, that's a long time, but it's not going
to be forever, so sometimes it's just time to get
a new one. They got to replace them. And the
lady was gobsmacked, like you couldn't write this. And my
mom was like, something doesn't feel right with this cop.
And the lady's like, I guess. I mean he did
make it to eighty three. She had talked about her
(11:06):
how her husband had just died and she was getting
new stuff. She's like, I need new stuff because my
husband died. My mom missed the husband dying and goes,
they don't last forever. That was me, Oh my god,
I'm sorry. I was like, mom, I'm so boredified for you.
She's like I nearly died. She's like, I one of
the ground, Just walk me up. But she's like, oh, well,
put like three twent so that was literally me. I
(11:30):
did not hear.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
She must have said the reason why she was there,
and I was so fixated on how nice.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
It would be to have a girl's weekend that I
just didn't hear what she said. Laura's like, it's so nice.
She brought a vas to dinner. Oh you're fucked, you
fucking cook.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
If you're listening to this, the ladies were so nice.
If you're listening to this, fuck, I'm so sorry. I
cannot tell you how uncomfortable I felt when I left
because I didn't hear it when you said it, and
I genuinely.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Like, hope you had it. I hope you are. I
hope he had a beautiful time with your family. Fucking horrible. Okay,
I just need you to stop talking. Don't let her
talk anymore. Something to make you feel a bit better.
Let's do accidentally unfiltered and favorite part, what if he
got to know?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
I pulled this one out because I was like, at
least this makes me feel a little bit less bad
about how dumb I am.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Actually, this isn't it.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
No, I take that back, because this is a child
who did this, not grown adult. So I'm still idiot
in this situation.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I took my four year old son to dinner and
he needed to pee, so I took him to the toilet,
and also I needed to go too. I had my
period and I was wearing a pad. I asked him
to turn around so I wouldn't traumatize him. He's fought
and I didn't really want to have the conversation about
periods with him just yet. He couldn't help himself, and
he had a look and then he screamed at the
top of his lungs in a very very packed public cubicle.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
You who did a poo in your annies? I said, no,
I didn't in a paddock. He said, yes, you did,
and I'm telling dad.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
He then ran out of the toilet and started screaming
in the restaurant while running back to his dad.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Po knees, Dad, Mom did a big poo in her
I wanted to flash myself down the toilet. I probably
would have stayed in the cubicle to the restaurant closed.
What do you do? Hey, the whole restaurant thanks you
to shave yourself. You can't go out and explain it,
being like, oh, what he meant was it was my.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Period in my Actually not do you know what you
could abs?
Speaker 1 (13:19):
You could not. You cannot go out to a restaurant
full of patrons and say, I know he said I should,
but it was my period.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
I've got my period. I wish we could talk about
it so openly. It would make life a bit better.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Oh my god. So she had to walk back to
a table.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
My kids they're inquisitive because the kids always come in,
so like Laura and Mali will come in and will
be that time of the month, and I'll be like
trying to like put a tampon in and do things,
and Molly's like, why are you touching your bum? And
I'm like, oh my god, darling, I'm not ready to
explain to you what's going on down here.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
I would love to be honest.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
But she knows the tampon's kind of go down there,
but she doesn't know what they're for.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
She sees them going and not coming out.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
She's like, WoT that go like a squirrels thatil Yeah, anyway,
I think I think that there comes an egg.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
It's not like you need to keep it from them,
but you just it's too hard to explain and do
not they do not understand. I want to talk about
the family that literally owns the entire world, and that
is the Kardashians. Now, something is happening in the storyline
of the Kardashians, and it's funny that their whole life.
I do look at it, and I think everyone looks
at it like it is a storyline. They're all characters.
I know they're real people, but they play into their storylines.
(14:23):
And there's one storyline now developing with one of my faves.
It's Chloe and her ex, Tristan. Tristan was a basketballer.
She's got two kids to him. He cheated on her
multiple times in like truly horrific ways. He's had secret
kids with other people. He truly has humiliated her and
done wrong by her every step of the way in
their relationship. Like just when you think he might be
(14:45):
a semi decent guy, he does something so fucked, like,
you know, have a secret baby with someone else and
not tell her about it. While simultaneously trying to coax
her into having another baby at the same time. This
kind of shit. Oh, I think this guy is a
really bad egg. There's a storyline developing on the show.
It's like a redemption arc.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
The thing is for Chloe, though, is that she received
so much backlash for even being in a relationship with him,
for like giving him another chance having another baby with him,
but she wasn't aware that he was still doing the
things that he was doing at the time.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah, totally. Now he's featuring quite heavily in the season again,
and everyone seems, and I say everyone, like Christian and
her mom, some of her friends, her sisters are sort
of like coaxing her back into maybe giving him a
second chance, like you know, the chance, Yeah, the hundredth chance.
It's this really weird concept of why everyone in her
(15:39):
life is encouraging her to get back with his twat
the only person that's really come out strong is Courtney.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
The next day after you like do the deed, Like,
do you feel.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Anything for me personally?
Speaker 5 (15:52):
When I yeah, I feel discussed the next day.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
But then so then why do you do it again?
Speaker 5 (15:59):
I was just literally just just cheating just for an
action like just cheating just for a feeling, But also
it really came down to not really knowing how to
love because that's the way I grew up. I've never
seen a man treat a woman good. I've never seen
a man not cheat on a woman. I've never seen
a good husband. I made a mistake, But did I
really anish fault?
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Multi times? But did I really ever understand why I'm
making a mistake?
Speaker 4 (16:23):
Well, what do you think the mistake is?
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Like? Truly? Like? What? So the mistake is I'm cheated?
Speaker 5 (16:29):
And if I was ahead of it and maybe told Chloe, yeah,
we might have been able to.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Figure it out together instead of her being blindsided.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
But I don't think you deserve Chloe or the way
the actions that you've done have been something that she's deserved.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
She's definitely not a part of this redemption arc and
then getting back together. But I feel like that's the question,
right when is enough? When is enough enough? And why
are they putting him back on one of the most
publicized shows in the world and their whole family. Who's
supposed to care about Chloe and want her to be
with this amazing man. Why is everyone so on his side?
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I mean, if you haven't seen it, and if you
don't follow along with the Kardashians, I dip in and
I dip out. But part of it that I think
is interesting is that so Tristan's mum passed away, he
has now become the sole caarer for his brother, who
is severely disabled, and I guess like part of that
makes you kind of look at him and have some
empathy for how caring he must be. The fact that
he has become an additional guardian, I guess. But it's
(17:27):
very interesting to me that the people who are the
closest to Chloe are the ones who are encouraging her
to give the relationship another go, and they're the ones
who are like, you know, you should be trying to
save your relationship this sort of language when I think
it's very very clear for anyone who's followed along with
any sort of consistency, that she has done everything she
possibly can to save her relationship.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Earlier on, I think.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
That this is a setup for the fact that they
are getting back together, and they're trying to groom the
audience into not vilifying Chloe when that happens. Now, if
she is wanting to give this relationship with Tree another chance.
They need this redemption arc. They need this like almost
like changing of the perception around who he is as
a person, to try and frame him as though he's
grown as a person, he's like a kind and empathetic
(18:12):
man now he's learnt from his ways. But they also
need the contrast of Courtney there to put the hard
word on him. And I think that this is all
a setup and we will probably see in a few
months time that they're back in a relationship together.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
It's funny because the first thing I thought was exactly that.
I was like, there's no other reason than everyone, even
her best friend said to her, like, you know, you
should be finding for your family. Maybe you should be
giving him another go for your family. Which I have
opinions about that as well. It has to be right,
like everyone in your life that you love and that
(18:45):
loves you can't be this pro somebody that just fucked
you over so many times. So I think that you're
onto something. I think that it is. It is a
redemption arc for a reason. They are going to bring
him back in and they'll probably end up getting back
to other.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
But also when it comes to the kind of I
think we are all very aware that every single thing
that happens in that show, every single storyline, has been
contrived and created for a purpose. It has been either
created to Ganna pr It's been created to push the
show further, because obviously they still need to continue to
have exciting and relevant things happening in their lives in
(19:20):
order to maintain relevancy forever, you know, like you can't
just live a normal life to have a reality TV show.
So I think that this is a setup for the
next story arc that's coming, and that's kind of how
they roll these things one into the other. But I
think the bigger and probably more interesting question to kind
of move it away and shift gears away from the
Kardashians is so here is Courtney, and she's putting the
(19:42):
hard word on Tristan.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
She obviously protects her sister.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
She cares about the fact that her sister has been
lied to, that she's been coerced into having a baby
who was lying to her and having a baby with
someone else. Like the absolute magnitude of the lies in
which he spread are unbelievable. And I think if we
were ever to do an ask gun cut for someone
one who'd sent in a question like that, we'd be like,
fucking remove him from your life, co parent, but just
(20:05):
like cut ties, but the way in which like a
normal psychologist, therapist, literally your friend, anyone giving advice to
this relationship would be to cut this person out of
your life. So it's very interesting that in this instance
there's so many people within her life which are saying, like,
give him another chance. Now, the big question is is
if this was somebody who was in your life, if
(20:26):
this was your friend, if this was your sister, and
they were in a relationship with someone who had cheated
on them multiple times and they wanted to go back
and give that person another chance, do you have to
forgive and allow that person the partner, back into your
life as the supportive friend or the supportive sister because
(20:46):
the person who you love has chosen to pursue a
relationship with them a third or fourth time.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
It's such a hard question, and obviously it depends so
much on the situation, what they did, the why, what
they've done after, and how they've tried to get you
back and make amends. In the cut Ashian situations of
interest in situation and Chloe absolutely not I would be
Courtney right in that situation, I would be like, you
have had enough chances, and I think I would be
(21:11):
pretty obvious in my dislike for that person. If my
sister's partner, for example, like had cheated once, accidentally made amends,
was sorry, was doing everything you can to get the
family back on track, then I think that's different, right,
because I do believe people do make mistakes. I believe
it's very situational, and I believe it's what you do
after the fact that makes you who you are. Right, It's, yes,
(21:33):
you've done something, but what's your reaction to that. I
think it's the same with friends, Like I have some
friends whose partners have cheated before and we've ended up
all getting like all our of our friend groups go
on like nothing happened eventually because they work through it,
they're happy and it's fine. But then I have friends
whose partner have cheated in more horrific ways, and I
can't get on board with that. But I want to
(21:53):
support my friends. So it's a really you know, if
your friend says that they're happy in that situation, it's
really difficult.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
I think that is the hardest part of it, right,
Like I do think that this, And I know that
this is a relevant question because we have received so
many ask gun cuts over the years from people who
are like, I love my friend, I hate their partner,
I hate the way their partner treats them, but they're
giving them another chance, Like how do I navigate this situation?
And I do think that it's very corrosive not just
(22:19):
on the relationship between your partner and your friendship group,
but it's really corrosive as well on your relationship with
your friends, Like it can change in terms of like,
as much as you want to support them, it's very
hard to be around someone whose values you despise and
who you have grown to resent because of how they
treat your friend. And sometimes it's like you just kind
(22:39):
of want to shake someone and be like, how can
you not want better for yourself?
Speaker 1 (22:42):
How can you not think that you're worthy of better
than this?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
And I don't want to be in the same room
as this person who treats you so badly and pretend
like we accept them again and everything's fine, and we
do the small talk and we pretend like, you know,
you're not a bad person.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
And I don't say bad person.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Because obviously like, cheating doesn't instantly make you a bad person,
but repair lying cheating and treating someone as though they're
disposable but not letting them walk away and wanting to
reinvest in the relationship and then doing the same behavior
does make you a pretty shitty person. The only thing
I think about these types of situations, and with this
guy Tristan specifically, is that I think the only way
(23:18):
that people who are like this do change their behavior
is when they hit rock bottom. You have to hit
absolute rock bottom. You have to lose everything to be
able to get to a point where you change that
behavior and you understand the way in which you're treating
people is not viable and you can't continue to do that.
And I think that that's the case for some people
(23:39):
who are terrible cheaters or who are incredibly manipulative. Once
they've hit rock bottom and they realize that they've lost everything,
they can sometimes go through the process of making amends.
Is this going to be the case in the Kardashian storyline, No,
who knows. Who knows, But it's a very hard thing
to navigate when you love someone and they're your best friend,
but then they're using to be in a relationship with
(24:01):
somebody who devalues them all the time, and you're expected
to accept that. I wanted to talk about a documentary
which Britt, you watched on the weekend. I watched it
on the weekend and it has left me absolutely traumatized.
I sent Britt a photo last night and I had
tears streaming down my face when I was watching this.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
I did message you and say, be you ready, because
no one can watch this documentary without being severely affected.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
And I was like, I actually don't think I'm ever
going to be okay again. And Matt was He was
sitting in the kitchen and I was trying to explain
to him the storyline of what was happening as it
was happening.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Now.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
It's a Netflix docker that came out in June this
year called Take Care of Maya.
Speaker 6 (24:39):
We as parents tried to do the best we can
for our children. But there's nothing that could prepare me
for what I went through. Nothingada and I had a
beautiful family, but then Maya Steria gets sick.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Mayo had advanced complex regional pain syndrome. And we know
what the best therapy is for.
Speaker 5 (25:05):
It's called ketemine.
Speaker 6 (25:09):
We're just blessed that we've finally seen something working.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
But Mayo relapsed.
Speaker 6 (25:15):
The artists explaining to the emergency room, this is what
needs to be done.
Speaker 5 (25:20):
You don't understand how much medication it takes to control
her pain.
Speaker 6 (25:25):
But they didn't listen.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
They choose the arta of medical child abuse and that swoon.
Speaker 6 (25:31):
They told me I had to leave that my daughter
is under state custody.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
The reason why we are talking about it now is
because the case that has been surrounding this documentary has
just been finalized recently and there has been an enormous,
enormous payout to this little girl, Maya Kowowski and her family.
So just the other week, on November nine, there was
a settlement more than two hundred million dollars or were
false imprisonment, call negligence, battery, fraud, and intentional infliction of
(26:04):
emotional distress.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah, they ended up with two hundred and sixty one
million combined in damages and punitive damages total. That is
the one of the biggest payouts has ever happened in
a hospital environment.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Now, if you haven't seen the docer, I just want
to kind of set up what happened for you, so
that you know what it is that we're talking about.
So Maya, she was a normal little girl, had a
beautiful mum and dad and a little brother, and she,
at the age of seven, started having this pain syndrome
that's called CRPS and its complex regional pain syndrome. So
(26:35):
Maya was taken to all these different hospitals. She was
taking to all these different doctors because what she was
experiencing was a super rare condition that not many people
knew what it was nor how to treat it. And
for a long time there they even thought that maybe
she was making up the symptoms and it was actually
a psychological disorder. Eventually, her mother found a doctor who
(26:55):
specialized in this type of rare pain condition. And it
turns out that the treatment for this rare pain condition
is and now it sounds crazy, but it's ketamine. They
prescribe ketamine in different doses depending on how debilitating the
pain is. And so at the time she was seven
when she was diagnosed, and then she went through this
crazy like induced ketamine coma, which was experimental treatment that
(27:19):
happened in Mexico. Her feet had started to turn in.
She had gone from being a fully functioning little girl
to being unable to walk, unable to sleep, unable to
really lift her arms up or do anything because of
the amount and severity of pain that she was in.
Her mother was Polish and her name was Biata, and
she was a nurse herself, so she was the one
who was really spearheading the treatment plan for her and
(27:41):
like taking her to these doctors to ensure that her
little girl was getting seen to. And so she went
had this induced coma done, this ketamine coma. The symptoms
started getting better and better after the coma, and it
kind of rewires the brain and how the brain received
the pain, and so she was actually so much better
afters and that was maintained for an entire year, and
(28:04):
then after a year, the treatment kind of just wore
off and the pain came back, and so Maya was
rushed to the local emergency and that's where their lives
completely unraveled. So when she was rushed to the emergency,
the ED doctors were questioning why Maya was on such
high levels of ketamine. They were questioning why her mother
(28:24):
was pushing for different types of prescriptions or doses in
terms of managing the pain. And that was where they
started to think that maybe Biata had Munchausen's by proxy
and was actually the one who was making Maya sick.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
So the hospital that she was taken to, which I
think is really important, is John Hopkins Hospital in Florida.
And the reason this is really important is because throughout
the documentary we discover that there have been a lot
of similar cases at said hospital. It didn't seem to
be a one off. This misdiagnosis was quite common. Watching
the way they treated the mother, which ultimately, and they
(28:57):
do show this in the documentary, ultimately led to her suicide,
and watching the way they treated Maya was like nothing
I have ever seen before. This disease presents as almost
an invisible disease. But also the fact that they didn't
even look into it. They didn't listen, and they didn't
hear what the family was saying. They didn't hear what
Maya the patient was saying. And there's a one scene
(29:18):
in it that really shocked me where she's really really
she's crying, she's grown up, years have gone past because
they're still fighting this court case, and she says, I
just want to be heard. No one is listening to me,
and it took me back to when she was in
the hospital, screaming in pain, trying to explain what was
wrong with her and what she's feeling, and being told
that she's making it up. I cannot imagine what you
(29:40):
would be going through in that situation where you're begging
for somebody to help you, and not only are they
not helping you, but they're making the condition worse and
they're making your life worse.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Well, just to kind of give you a bit of
the backstory of them, what happens so like Maya's mum,
because they thought that she was the one who was
inflicting this condition on her daughter. Her daughter, Maya was
made basically a water of the state. So they were
taken a custody away from them. They weren't allowed any
visitation rights. So imagine at this point in time, Mayra
is only ten years old. She has been denied any
(30:09):
visitation from her parents. She has a chronic pain condition.
She's all on her own in a hospital, and she's
being cared for by a social worker and also by
a doctor. Now her name is Sally Smith, and she's
the one who's doing the investigation into what is essentially
deemed child abuse. And now what Britt referred to is
that this hospital itself has double the rate of incidences
(30:31):
of children being taken away from parents for suspected child abuse,
double the average. I can't even imagine what it would
be to have a child and have them be in
so much pain and then be blamed for that pain
when all you're trying to do is make them better.
Thing that was in this instance that was so harrowing
is that the condition she has, so the thing that
(30:52):
she was being denied and said that it wasn't that
she didn't have that it was all make believe. The
hospital had said that it wasn't this illness, it wasn't
cup this thing that they had denied. This whole time,
they were still billing and they had built over six
hundred and fifty thousand dollars to the insurance company, because
you've got to remember, in this states, all of hospitals
are privatized, and so medical and medical health care is
(31:16):
privatized there. So they were billing the insurance company over
six hundred and fifty thousand dollars in billings for the
treatment of the exact thing that they said that she
didn't have in the first place.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Yeah, and the way Maya describes it is quote unquote
medical abduction. They inflicted these rules that the family could
not visit her, they could have no contact because they
thought that this was the reason she was sick. So
now you've got a ten year old girl that is
in so much pain that no one's believing that is
having her parents taken away from her. She was forced
(31:46):
to do things she didn't want to do. There's one
part where she was forced to take her clothes off,
just keep her bra and undies on, and they held
her down to take photos. She was screaming no. And
the only reason that they're able to make this documentary,
the only reason that they're able to go to court
because of how amazing her mother was at documenting every
single thing. So every single phone call she ever made,
(32:07):
every single treatment, every single request, every visit, everything that
that daughter, any interaction that she had was noted down.
And I guess that comes from a I mean, of
course she was being a protective mother, but be it
comes from being a nurse where you have to write
down everything you have. And the reason that this hasn't
gone to court before with any other families is because
no one's ever had the evidence to provide for it,
(32:29):
because no one ever writes them, because no one ever
thinks that you have to document every single thing, Like
every how many times do you call a doctor about
the girls, Laura, and you don't write it down, and
you don't write down who you spoke to and when
you did and what they said and what the outcome was.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Yeah, but if you were being criminally investigated for child
abuse that you hadn't done and you knew that your
child was in pain and they were not being treated.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
She did that even before she was being accused of anything.
Like She's just a really thorough mother that had her
whole life been taught in nursing to write everything down,
So from the second her daughter got sea, she had
everything written well.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
I think the other part of this as well, is
so Beata was Polish, and it's established early on in
the documentary that she could be quite abrupt in the
way that she communicated. But I also think that that
comes as part and parcel of English being a second language.
And I think that there is definitely some racism that
is imdued in this, the fact that they thought that
(33:22):
Bearta was too pushy, that she was too aggressive in
the way that she spoke. The way in which she
handled herself got the hospital offside, which meant that they
fought her harder. They fought her as though she was
the problem. I don't even know how to describe it,
but it is just like tapped so deeply into a
mother's love for her daughter, and she truly would have
done anything for Maya. But basically what happened is that
(33:44):
Biarta was being investigated, so she had criminal charges against
her for child abuse, even though she had in no
way inflicted any abuse onto Maya, and so it had
been made very very clear to her through so many
court proceedings and failed court proceedings. At this point in time,
Maya had been in prison in the hospital for three
months without having any access to her mother apart from
(34:05):
a phone call which was regulated by the hospital, and
the hospital had taken even more liberties in sanctioning the
type of contact that Maya was able to have with
her mother, and so she had gone to another court proceeding.
It was a failed court proceeding. She was not allowed
to see Maya, she was not allowed to hug Meyer,
and it was made very clear that for as long
as Bearda was in the picture, and for as long
(34:27):
as Bearda was in the family home, that Maya would
not be coming home. But the issue with the condition
that Maya had is that if it had continued to
go untreated, if it continued to not be taken care of,
that she would have deteriorated. And the professional and medical
advice from her main doctor who had been caring for
her up until this point was that if she doesn't
(34:47):
get the treatment and get it soon, she will end
up dying, and it will be a very slow and
suffering death. I can only imagine being in that situation
as a mother, when you have zero options. You have
been deemed the prob you have been deemed the only
reason why your child is not allowed to leave hospital
and to be able to get the treatment in which
she so desperately needs.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
What are your options?
Speaker 2 (35:10):
And I think sometimes we I mean trigger warning, we
are going to speak about suicide. I know you mentioned
it already, Britt, but like we often talk about suicide
as though it's a selfish thing. And when so Matt
was sitting in the background, he could see this play
out on the TV, and he's like, he didn't get
the whole of the story. He was only dipping it
into being out and he's like, I feel so angry
at her mum for taking her life. I feel so
(35:30):
angry at her mom for feeling so as though the
situation was so helpless that she wasn't able to continue
to quote unquote fight. But what actually happened in this
situation is Yes, I'm sure that played a part of it.
I'm sure there was a part where she felt completely
defeated by the system, but by Bata suiciding, she actually
then enabled Maya to be able to be let out
(35:52):
of hospital. So it was like the most unbelievable, Like
it makes me mean to cry thinking about it. It was
the most unbelievable sacrifice mother could make to try and
save her child.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yeah, I definitely look at this different and I hate
that that was how they made her feel. Like a
hospital is supposed to be a safe place and help people,
and the hospital is genuinely the reason she ended her life. Yes,
she had another child as well, and she had a husband,
but I couldn't imagine that decision knowing that the only
way to stop the pain and slow death of one
(36:22):
child is to end your life, which in turn, is
going to inflict a lot of pain in the rest
of your family and that daughter. But I understand almost
why she did it when you watch the documentary.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
There's this one doctor. Her name is doctor Sally Smith.
She's the one who originated the inquiry and the investigation
into these child abuse claims. She's the one who who
put together the case for it. And it did make
me ask some questions. I guess because she's a person
who has genuinely been exposed to so much trauma in
(36:53):
her life. She has been exposed to so much child abuse,
and she is the reason why this hospital itself has
a two times higher right of separating parents from their children.
But it also makes you think, like, if you've been
surrounded by true trauma for so long, if you have
seen the most horrific things, would you not then have
(37:14):
that sort of mentality of like I would rather be
overcautious than under cautious. I would rather do what I
can to protect children. If she genuinely believed that she
was protecting children rather than reuniting children with their family,
because I think she would carry this weight and this
burden of like, well, what if I reunite a child
with a parent who is actually an abuser and then
(37:35):
something happens. I mean, my heart goes out to anyone
who works in child protection and has to actually make
these decisions and has to try and figure out, well,
what is the best thing for that child.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
I agree with you in terms of what doctor Silly Smith,
you know, I can't imagine how hard that job is
to be the person that decides if a child goes
home to a family that could be abusive or not. Like,
I can't imagine what that is like for me. That
wasn't the problem. The problem was how they went about it.
They didn't do the tests, they weren't having the right communication,
the way they spoke to them and treated them like
there were criminals. From the day that they walked in
(38:08):
that door.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
She was this very unique type of person who never
thought she could be wrong. And I think that that's
when it is so dangerous. If you are in a
caring position, as in like a position of authority. If
you're in a position of care, but you have the
demeanor that you do not make mistakes, and you can't
make mistakes, what it means is then once you've made
(38:30):
up your decision about someone whether that be from a feeling,
whether that be from a hunch, whether that be because
of some of the facts might indicate X, rather than why.
It means that you become so monofocused that you actually
can't acknowledge or consider the alternate option. And I think
there's people that do this in many, many walks of life.
(38:51):
Whereas obviously, when it's a situation like this, it can
be so incredibly damning. But if you're someone who like,
you know, I feel like is the way it is,
So therefore I'm going to ignore other facts in order
to believe what I feel is true. And that's what
doctor Sally Smith did.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, she was not right. There was something off about her.
I don't think she's the right person to be in
that position. She's definitely not the right person. Now we
are lacking of empathy right well? Yeah, and the other
thing is that really maybe one day is this the
whole hospital environment? Is this the judiciary system? Is this
Sally Smith? I mean they say the problem was the mother,
right like, we can't let you go home because it's
not safe, et cetera, et cetera. When her mother took
(39:30):
her life. They allowed Maya to see the family. And
Maya took to the stands throughout this trial, and she
spoke a lot, and she read a lot of statements,
and she had said she was only given one hour,
one hour with her father after learning of her mother's suicide.
And she said, if I'm being completely honest, it was
actually so unbelievably cruel the amount of time they allocated
(39:51):
for me to spend with my family after hearing such
awful news. So how does that work? If you have
said a like, what normal person or institution allow that
the girl is ten years old? How do you take
her from a family when her mother has just ended
her life and put her back in a hospital alone.
But if you said the problem was the mother anyway,
which we know it's not. But if you have said that,
(40:12):
why are you still keeping her from being with her
father in this time? This is the stuff that I
don't get. There are so so much wrong with this case,
Like there are so many avenues and so many people
that are at fault completely and utterly let this girl
and let this family down.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
The reason why I think it can happen so prolifically
within the States is because of the fact that hospitals
are privatized and they make a lot of money. So
the fact that they are businesses, they make money by
what they prescribe, by how they have patients. The more operations,
the more procedures, the more things that they can do
within the hospital unit, the more money that the hospital
(40:47):
actually makes.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
I understand the difficulty. I mean thirteen years I worked
in specialist kids hospitals and normal hospitals that kids come into,
and I have reported suspected child abuse before even the
reporting from end. I mean, there are very specific pathways
that you have to take. You know, you're ticking off checklists.
It's a real order, like a real process. But that
(41:09):
decision to even report that, because at the end of
the day, you are usually in a room with a
child and its parent on your own as a medical professional.
Sometimes there'll be someone else but making that decision to
report someone because you're not reporting that they are. You're
just saying something's not right and I'm not sure about it.
And the reason you do that is there are very
(41:29):
specific injuries and breaks and things like that that you
know can only present from things that would be linked
to abuse. Twisting, injuries, falling from a height, different things
like that. But kids also fall from a height, so
it is really difficult to make. I've reported people before
from the way they've interacted with their child and linked
that to an injury. But the push and pull that
you feel internally to even make that report because you think,
(41:52):
what if this is not and it's so normal, and
I put this family through even just an investigation, right
even being accused or saying, hey, we need to talk
about suspect each old that is horrific if it's not.
But then if you don't do that and it is, well,
then you're sending a child home like you won't sleep
at night, you send in a child home knowing that
something could be wrong. So I understand from that point
of view why she did what she did, doctor Staley Smith,
(42:14):
But there is not one part of the way that
she went about it that was correct, that was right,
and that's what I's I think that's the difference with Australia,
like we have so many checklists to follow, and we
follow it too, like immaculately.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
But that's also because you can't prophetize off it, like
there's no profiting off that situation. And I think when
money is the end goal of any business, there will
always be people who abuse the system. The thing that
I think about this documentary which does relate to what
happens here in Australia, especially if you are the victim
of something and you're up against a big corporation or
(42:47):
a big business or a big company that has so
much money to throw at these sorts of legal proceedings.
What we see happen in this documentary is that the
hospital keeps the Kowalski family in the court battle for
like five years. And the reason why they do that
is because it was said halfway through that they knew
that if they got on the stand, if it went
to trial, that they had enough evidence to bury the
(43:09):
hospital for what they had done. So the hospital's only
tactic was to try and keep the legal proceedings bleed
them out as much as they possibly could in terms
of their finances, in terms of their ability to keep
the court battle going. Five years on, they finally were
able to stand trial and to take their case to court.
But the thing is is when big companies do this,
(43:31):
they do this in the hope that people will take
a settlement or they'll bow out early because they can't
possibly keep it going for so long.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Yeah, nine percent of I mean probably ninety nine percent
of people do not have the finances to fight a
big conglomerate like an enormous hospital in a court system
for five years. And the father makes that comment all
the way through, and he says to his kids, you know,
his kids want to give up at some point, and
he says, you know, that's what they want. They are
pushing this court battle back because they know we're going
(43:58):
to win if we can get on this, so they're
doing everything they can to stop it, hoping that they
bleed us dry, we run out of money, or we
emotionally don't have it in this anymore, and we give up.
And I love the fact that he said the only
way to make a difference is to not give up
and to be loud, like, we need to keep making
noise and keep making sure our voices are heard. And
I can't imagine how to feed in. It would be
(44:19):
every time you get so close to so close to
a trial and then the hospital comes in and the
judge says, now we're gonna wait, We're gonna wait, We're
gonna Oh. I just cannot imagine, especially because the father,
like I really felt for him. He's trying to fight
for his daughter, but he's fighting for his late wife
as well, who took her own life because of this
same system that he's trying to squish him like a
little bug on the road.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
But this stuff also happens, I mean, it happens with
insurance companies, that there are so many people who have
been through something traumatic, something horrific, where it should seem
like it is a clear cutcase, but it is a
tactic that wears people down within the legal system in
order for the person who is at fault to pay
the least amount of money and to be able to
settle outside of court. But it does make you think,
(45:00):
you know, it's two hundred and sixty million dollars, it
sounds like it's an incomprehensible amount of money, But there
is no amount of money that could put a value
on the fact of what this family went through and
the fact that the only way of getting their daughter
out of hospital was for the mother to take her
own life.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
No, and I have no doubt that'd give it all
up in a heartbeat to have changed their story and
to change the outcome.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
It's honestly, I know we've spoken about it for a while,
but I wish I could say, like, I do not
have words for how much it affected me watching that,
And I think as a mum, it makes you question, like,
what would the length be that you would go to
protect your child? If your child was somebody who was
suffering from chronic illness, what lengths would you go to
to try and make that pain stop?
Speaker 1 (45:36):
It absolutely flawed me. Yeah, we can't recommend the documentary
enough and even though we've spoken about it, you will
still take so much away from it. I had heard
this story so many times, which is why, like I'd
read about it on the news, which is why I
didn't jump to the doco straight away. I always saw
it advertised, and I thought not for me. I know
the story, and I'm so glad I watched it finally,
because there is so much to this story that I
(45:58):
didn't know, and also information hits different when it's coming
straight from the source and their personal experience. So I
genuinely cannot recommend this enough. You know, we never finished
an episode without our suck and our sweet, our highlight
and our low light.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Mine.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
I feel is really easy this week. My suck is
probably just how bad I still feel post my egg
freezing procedure. It's really hung around. I'm very, very uncomfortable.
Feel like if you put a pin in me on
pop That's how I feel. I feel like I need
to do the biggest part you've ever heard, but I can't.
Like son. It feels like it's full of gas, but
(46:33):
it's not. It's because all my insides are literally on steroids,
like this swollen. So that's my suck.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Would Ben going home not be your suck? Would him
leaving well, no again, not be like the suckiest part
of your week.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Yeah, but I was trying to make a note at
all about Ben. But my other suck is that last
night I ordered my favorite Italian Ben and I for
his last meal, his last meal, we ordered my favorite
Italian from this restaurant down the road. It's Fedi chini
cabanara with chicken. I love it. Anyway, I was shoveling
that in and I hadn't finished mine yet when it
was time for Ben to go, so I sort of
left it up on the ledge of my couch when
(47:07):
out the front with Ben came back in and Delilah
had eaten the whole fit A Chiney company that is
so bad for you and for her such a little bit.
My sweet is you know two things. Ben came to
visit and we had a really nice couple of days.
And on top of that, I actually got some eggs
from this procedure. So I feel like it's Ben coming
and getting some eggs there my sweets.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Okay, My suck for the week is that yesterday on
the plane on the flat home, you know what, the
air pressure and we have a drink bottle and then
you take the lid off and the air pressure makes
the water just spray out everywhere. So Lola maybe two,
but she still has a baby bottle that she uses
to get to sleep. She has a baby bottle. She
likes warm water in it. Don't ask me. I can't
be bothered to die on that hill. She can have
(47:47):
it until she's over it. So we're on the plane
and I packed the baby bottle. I put a lid
in it because I was like, you know what, she
might want to sleep on the plane.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
I'll take it just in case.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
How will my creature comforts The full bottle was in
my bag and it turns out that the air pressure
had popped the lid off. The baby bottle entirely. The
entire thing had tipped out into my handbag, and my
laptop had been swimming in eight hundred mills of water
for the entire flight and the whole trip home. So
now my laptop is fucked. I have no laptop at
the moment. I'm leaving this to go straight to the
(48:17):
Apple store to buy myself.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
A new one. That's why are using my iPad right now.
I'm using prints iPad. Matt has been Matt's an angel
sent for the heavens. He's trying so hard to resurrect it.
He's currently got a boll up.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
He's currently got my laptop at home in a box
full of rice. But it's just one of those things
where we came home for the most beautiful holiday, the
beautiful three days away, and I was like, oh, I'm
so happy, and then I was like, ah, I'm fucking Mezrah. Okay,
only because I'm starting to realize all the shit that's
on that laptop that I've now lost, like all the files,
all the working files, all the things that I need
to get stuff done.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
That I'm like, oh, it's gone. It really says you
back in life, doesn't it. Really does.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
It's like doing a UNI in year twelve and getting
almost finished and then it crashing and losing the whole thing,
Like you's what that reminded me ofbout Yeah anyway, and
then my sweet for the week is that we had
three nights we went to Elements. I know I've spoken
about Elements and bar and Bay before, but honestly, it
is my dream place.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
And this is not sponsored. We pay full price for
the place.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
I just it's the only place that I've been to
with kids where I genuinely walk away and I feel
like I've had a relaxing holiday, like I've had three
days to completely switch off. And it's because it's the
kind of place that has everything that kids need for
them to have a good time, but also everything that
an adult needs for them to have a good time.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
So everyone's having a good time and it's a great location.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
And it was just beautiful, and so were three nights
great weather. Like my cup is very full and overflowing
into my laptoin into the.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
That is it from us, guys. Please, if you have
any questions for asking Cart, or you have embarrassing moments,
please write them into our Instagram life on Cup Podcast
and you know the durnal Tell your mum, tell your dad,
Tell your dad.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Tear.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
Friends are general because well love by Appian Vakata
Speaker 6 (50:05):
Kaaaay kabaa
Life on Cut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country. We
pay our respects to their elders past and present, Always was,
always will be Aboriginal Land. This episode was recorded on
d rug Wallamuta Land. Hi guys, and welcome back to
(00:22):
another episode of Life on Cut. I'm Laura, and I'm
a very happy Brittany. Why are you so happy? Actually,
I know why you're happy. Okay, I feel like a
piece of shit right now, so i'd finish my egg freezing.
You're a good looking piece of shit though. If I
undid there's a reason I wore bag your pants today.
If I undid my pants, you would see a little pop,
(00:42):
barely like blow the blow. So I finished the egg freezing. Finally,
Well it's not blowed. It's genuinely the two weeks of
double dose hormones that I've had, and I had the
extraction on Saturday. This is now Monday that we're recording,
and for the last two days I cannot exaggerate this
is the third time I've done this. But I could
not move. It was actually so painful and it hasn't
(01:03):
been before. And I think it's because of the double
dose of the hormones. I was like sprawled out on
my back on the lounge. I couldn't get up because
the belly is so painful. It's not that it's so big,
it's so painful that you can't bend. So you know
how pregnant people can't bend, so they have to keep
really straight and like hustle up and hold their back
and roll to the side. And that's what I was
doing to get around the house. I couldn't sit on
(01:24):
the toilet properly. It was a rough couple of days,
which I haven't experienced before.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
But luckily you had a big strong man there to
carry you to the toilet and to the bed and
to the appointments. Because guess who's in town, baby, Well
not anymore, I guess who was in town, baby Ben.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Bless his soul, and I was so happy. Ben flew
in to surprise me. I mean, he told me two
days before he was coming. Like it wasn't it. He
didn't turn up at my door, but he decided really
last minute to attempt to get two days off so
he could come here. He flew across the world for
two and a half days. He was here with me
for the operation for the procedure. He looked after me
and he just left late last night and it was
(02:01):
just made my year. I was so happy. I was
really happy. Yeah, and it was. We were actually really
in a point of really struggling, if I've been honest,
because it's the longest we've spent apart, it'll be about
three months, and that's a really long time, especially when
you've got hormones, like a body ragion of hormones. We
were really struggling.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Do you feel like a couple of days was enough
to overcome the feelings of you know, when you get
to that point in long distance where you've not seen
each other enough so like you're picking fights.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Obviously yoursitration was was double fault with all the hormones.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
But do you think that that was enough of like
a little top up of the cup that you're all
back to good.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah. It was definitely the top up we both needed.
And it was really hard to say goodbye. We hate it,
We hate saying goodbye, but I guess it's always harder
when you're the person leaving, like when you're the one
that has to get back on the flight and go back.
But my life just is normal. It's always hard to
being that person. But we did, I say we. I
did get eight eggs this time. First time I got fifteen,
second time I got none, and this time I got
(03:00):
eight to a little a bit dodgy, So probably going
to be like six quality, but two a bit dodge.
It's like they're okay, and you'd freeze them in case
I'll use the other ones first, Like when you're open twelve, yeah,
a dozen eggs and one's got a little crack in
it all one's got all the spots on it. You're like,
I won't use that one, or I'll use that last.
That's what two of my eggs were like. But this
is so much better than the last time. So if
(03:20):
all of.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Those eight or six or however many are like juicy, right, great,
we're good.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
We're not doing it again. Yeah, yeah, I want to
say never again. That's what I want to say. The
only time I'll do it again is IVF. Obviously it's
like the making of the umbros and playing embryos if
I have to go down that track, but I don't
want to think about that yet.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Well, while you were in Sydney and not having a
copious amount of sexy times, which is very rare for
you guys. Usually when you're in the same room together,
it's ween ban Thank you, ma'am.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, we couldn't have sex. It was a disaster at all. Honestly.
We did once or twice, but I can't explain. And
everyone is listening that has done this process, you'll know,
it's just so painful. Everything inside you were swollen to
the tenth degree. That's the whole point, right, It's to
swell your ovaries and your follicles, and you're like, here's
for anything else in there? It was so sore it out.
That's when you go for the back and knee brit
(04:11):
that's when you can bring it on in. I didn't
even think of that, or the neck or the underarm.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Anyway, if you guys didn't come to the last show
or you haven't listened to Early Doors Life on cart
you might not remember that, and we don't need to
go into it.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
It's okay, there's your imagination.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Anyways, moving along, if you listen to the episode that
Keisha n I did last Tuesday, I was talking about
how Matt and I we had I won your wedding
anniversary and how long term relationships go through ebbs and
flows of like the intensity of being in love and
then the lack of intensity of the long terminus of
your relationship and your two children. But no going away
(04:45):
for us for three nights, it was exactly what we
needed to have, those moments of like, oh my.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
God, we love each other. La Lulu, like do you
feel like you can? And I asked this because I'm
not in the position, and I also watch your Instagram
stories and it looked like a crazy, crazy nightmare. I
saw Matt putting a video up of like just the
alarm you want or the best alarm, and it was
like Lola banging on the table and like making all
this noise at six am? Do you feel like you
really can romantically? And I guess emotionally reconnect when you
(05:13):
still do have like two kids there that are depending
on you for life. No, do you know what?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
It's funny for us because I think a lot of times,
I think that there are definitely times where you want
to carve out time just with your partner and just
have one on one. But I also think for us,
and especially for Matt, because like, no, that's not one
is he fucking loves being a dad, and he loves
feeling like he's doing a good job of the whole
dadding thing. So like his perfect holiday is going somewhere
(05:38):
that has a big pool and being in the pool
with the kids all day, like that really fills his cup.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
He and by the pool with a margarita, and mine was.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Spending half an hour at the adult's pool having a
frozen coconut margarita, which was truly a really exceptional part
of my weekend.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Did you actually Yeah? I mean Matt was doing work
and the.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Kids were asleep, and I was like, how do you
feel if I just pop up cross the way for
a moment.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
No, I mean I think it's fine to have time. Yeah,
I love it.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
You have to, you have to have time that's independent
of But like for Matt, he absolutely loves it. And
I think it's his enthusiasm for being a dad that
makes it so joyful. When you have someone who actually
really loves playing with them, really loves the whole look
at me, look at me, it changes the whole vibe
of the holiday. So we had a fucking amazing time.
So no divorce, no divorces. I did have something that
(06:26):
happened to me, which every time I think about it,
I feel a little bit sick, and I want to
tell you. So we're at a restaurant. Took the kids
out for dinner at an Italian restaurant.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
It was great.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
They were in great spirits, and by great spirits, I
mean they were highly energetic and running around the restaurant
like absolute fucking animals. Now, there was this big table
that was sitting next to us, and they had a
little kid as well, and the kids were all playing
together out in the grass. When your kids are like
this and you're in a restaurant, you're not really in
a conversation, right, because you're spending all your time trying
to just manage your children and stop them and stop
(06:58):
them from like annoying other people, stop them from hurting themselves,
stop them from ruining everybody else's night. So I was
at the front and the kids were like running around
like crazy out the front, and they'd found this little
boy that they were playing with, and the little boy's
parents were out the front too, and then some of
their friends. Anyway, we were kind of having a bit
of a half conversation, but the conversation wasn't really because
(07:19):
we were spending so much time with the kids, Like
the concentration was on the kids that it was like
half conversations. You're not really paying attention to what each
other's is saying properly because you're.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Like on the kids. Got it.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
So there they are running around and this woman has
been there with this big table of people. Then look
that they're having a really nice time. There was like
fifteen of them. And I was like, oh, how are
you going. Yeah, nice to meet you all. Like, oh,
you're here with such a big group and she was like, yeah,
I'm here with my family and my friends. I was like,
oh my god, that's so nice. It must be so
nice to catch up together. And then she said something
and I was like, it's so hard as adults to
(07:52):
like make time to hang out together and you know,
like be friends. And she kept looking at me a
bit confused, and so I was trying to explain how,
you know, when you're a parent, it can be really
hard to carve out time with your friends, but it's
so amazing to come away and have a big group
of friends together, and she goes, yeah, I mean, I
guess it is nice to have so many people here
(08:13):
to scatter my dad's ashes.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
I'm sorry, Oh, Laura, I wanted to die. I wanted
to die.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
I was like, I'm so sorry. I missed that part
of the conversation. I just didn't hear her say that
because I was.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
You on the kids. You guys are computrating with the kids.
Oh my god, I'm so mortified. I'm actually mortified for you.
I want to die. Keisha has tears in her eyes.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Cia.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Why are you crying? That's an extreme reaction. I'm on
the hormones. Bad guys.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
I was humiliated, and I am not laughing at the situation.
It's fucking horrific. I am laughing at me because how
does this happen to someone? I literally as she said it,
and she looked so confused, and I must have looked
so confused.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
You're so jolly about my father. I was like, God,
I wish my girlfriends would come away on a trip
with me. I'm going to tell you a story that
might make you feel better. No, no, this is going
to make you feel better. My mom's going to kill
me for telling this story. My mom works in a
bedding store, what like a bed bathroom table betting? Yeah,
(09:23):
you like your mom works in gambling. My mom's a
gambler I profession. No, my mom works in bedding like, No,
she doesn't works in betting. No, Laura, she's don't go
to it for a tip. She watched Game of Sport
and a line. My mom is really good on the
horse racing. No, my mom is not that person. My
mom works in a bedding like a bed bath table
kind of a store, right she casually she works in Manchester.
(09:46):
She just works in like a bed bath and table
ish kind of store where you know they do all
the linen and bedding and mattresses and beautiful stuff. She
loves it. She loves it. She gets to go in,
she chats to people, She has a great time. Not
that long ago, and I don't remember if I told
this on the podcast, but not that long ago, she
did something similar. She was talking to a customer. The
customer was an older lady and she had a bunch
of towels in her hand. She wanted to buy some
(10:07):
new towels and they were going between conversations. This is
this happened to me.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
It was like multiple things were happening. Children were running around.
I was like, Oh, you're from blah blah, blah, like
we just would.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
I think sometimes my mom must just tune out. I know,
sometimes my mum chowed out. So she's talking to the
lady and they're talking about towels blah blah blah blah,
and the conversation takes a turn and then my mom says, oh, well, yes,
you know, they don't last forever, do they, the towels
the town. Mum's talking about towns. The towers don't last,
(10:43):
and she's like, oh, I guess not. And Mom's like,
you know, I'm sure they had a good innings because
they like, that's a long time, but it's not going
to be forever, so sometimes it's just time to get
a new one. They got to replace them. And the
lady was gobsmacked, like you couldn't write this. And my
mom was like, something doesn't feel right with this cop.
And the lady's like, I guess. I mean he did
make it to eighty three. She had talked about her
(11:06):
how her husband had just died and she was getting
new stuff. She's like, I need new stuff because my
husband died. My mom missed the husband dying and goes,
they don't last forever. That was me, Oh my god,
I'm sorry. I was like, mom, I'm so boredified for you.
She's like I nearly died. She's like, I one of
the ground, Just walk me up. But she's like, oh, well,
put like three twent so that was literally me. I
(11:30):
did not hear.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
She must have said the reason why she was there,
and I was so fixated on how nice.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
It would be to have a girl's weekend that I
just didn't hear what she said. Laura's like, it's so nice.
She brought a vas to dinner. Oh you're fucked, you
fucking cook.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
If you're listening to this, the ladies were so nice.
If you're listening to this, fuck, I'm so sorry. I
cannot tell you how uncomfortable I felt when I left
because I didn't hear it when you said it, and
I genuinely.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Like, hope you had it. I hope you are. I
hope he had a beautiful time with your family. Fucking horrible. Okay,
I just need you to stop talking. Don't let her
talk anymore. Something to make you feel a bit better.
Let's do accidentally unfiltered and favorite part, what if he
got to know?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
I pulled this one out because I was like, at
least this makes me feel a little bit less bad
about how dumb I am.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Actually, this isn't it.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
No, I take that back, because this is a child
who did this, not grown adult. So I'm still idiot
in this situation.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I took my four year old son to dinner and
he needed to pee, so I took him to the toilet,
and also I needed to go too. I had my
period and I was wearing a pad. I asked him
to turn around so I wouldn't traumatize him. He's fought
and I didn't really want to have the conversation about
periods with him just yet. He couldn't help himself, and
he had a look and then he screamed at the
top of his lungs in a very very packed public cubicle.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
You who did a poo in your annies? I said, no,
I didn't in a paddock. He said, yes, you did,
and I'm telling dad.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
He then ran out of the toilet and started screaming
in the restaurant while running back to his dad.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Po knees, Dad, Mom did a big poo in her
I wanted to flash myself down the toilet. I probably
would have stayed in the cubicle to the restaurant closed.
What do you do? Hey, the whole restaurant thanks you
to shave yourself. You can't go out and explain it,
being like, oh, what he meant was it was my.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Period in my Actually not do you know what you
could abs?
Speaker 1 (13:19):
You could not. You cannot go out to a restaurant
full of patrons and say, I know he said I should,
but it was my period.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
I've got my period. I wish we could talk about
it so openly. It would make life a bit better.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Oh my god. So she had to walk back to
a table.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
My kids they're inquisitive because the kids always come in,
so like Laura and Mali will come in and will
be that time of the month, and I'll be like
trying to like put a tampon in and do things,
and Molly's like, why are you touching your bum? And
I'm like, oh my god, darling, I'm not ready to
explain to you what's going on down here.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
I would love to be honest.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
But she knows the tampon's kind of go down there,
but she doesn't know what they're for.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
She sees them going and not coming out.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
She's like, WoT that go like a squirrels thatil Yeah, anyway,
I think I think that there comes an egg.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
It's not like you need to keep it from them,
but you just it's too hard to explain and do
not they do not understand. I want to talk about
the family that literally owns the entire world, and that
is the Kardashians. Now, something is happening in the storyline
of the Kardashians, and it's funny that their whole life.
I do look at it, and I think everyone looks
at it like it is a storyline. They're all characters.
I know they're real people, but they play into their storylines.
(14:23):
And there's one storyline now developing with one of my faves.
It's Chloe and her ex, Tristan. Tristan was a basketballer.
She's got two kids to him. He cheated on her
multiple times in like truly horrific ways. He's had secret
kids with other people. He truly has humiliated her and
done wrong by her every step of the way in
their relationship. Like just when you think he might be
(14:45):
a semi decent guy, he does something so fucked, like,
you know, have a secret baby with someone else and
not tell her about it. While simultaneously trying to coax
her into having another baby at the same time. This
kind of shit. Oh, I think this guy is a
really bad egg. There's a storyline developing on the show.
It's like a redemption arc.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
The thing is for Chloe, though, is that she received
so much backlash for even being in a relationship with him,
for like giving him another chance having another baby with him,
but she wasn't aware that he was still doing the
things that he was doing at the time.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah, totally. Now he's featuring quite heavily in the season again,
and everyone seems, and I say everyone, like Christian and
her mom, some of her friends, her sisters are sort
of like coaxing her back into maybe giving him a
second chance, like you know, the chance, Yeah, the hundredth chance.
It's this really weird concept of why everyone in her
(15:39):
life is encouraging her to get back with his twat
the only person that's really come out strong is Courtney.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
The next day after you like do the deed, Like,
do you feel.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Anything for me personally?
Speaker 5 (15:52):
When I yeah, I feel discussed the next day.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
But then so then why do you do it again?
Speaker 5 (15:59):
I was just literally just just cheating just for an
action like just cheating just for a feeling, But also
it really came down to not really knowing how to
love because that's the way I grew up. I've never
seen a man treat a woman good. I've never seen
a man not cheat on a woman. I've never seen
a good husband. I made a mistake, But did I
really anish fault?
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Multi times? But did I really ever understand why I'm
making a mistake?
Speaker 4 (16:23):
Well, what do you think the mistake is?
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Like? Truly? Like? What? So the mistake is I'm cheated?
Speaker 5 (16:29):
And if I was ahead of it and maybe told Chloe, yeah,
we might have been able to.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Figure it out together instead of her being blindsided.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
But I don't think you deserve Chloe or the way
the actions that you've done have been something that she's deserved.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
She's definitely not a part of this redemption arc and
then getting back together. But I feel like that's the question,
right when is enough? When is enough enough? And why
are they putting him back on one of the most
publicized shows in the world and their whole family. Who's
supposed to care about Chloe and want her to be
with this amazing man. Why is everyone so on his side?
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I mean, if you haven't seen it, and if you
don't follow along with the Kardashians, I dip in and
I dip out. But part of it that I think
is interesting is that so Tristan's mum passed away, he
has now become the sole caarer for his brother, who
is severely disabled, and I guess like part of that
makes you kind of look at him and have some
empathy for how caring he must be. The fact that
he has become an additional guardian, I guess. But it's
(17:27):
very interesting to me that the people who are the
closest to Chloe are the ones who are encouraging her
to give the relationship another go, and they're the ones
who are like, you know, you should be trying to
save your relationship this sort of language when I think
it's very very clear for anyone who's followed along with
any sort of consistency, that she has done everything she
possibly can to save her relationship.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Earlier on, I think.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
That this is a setup for the fact that they
are getting back together, and they're trying to groom the
audience into not vilifying Chloe when that happens. Now, if
she is wanting to give this relationship with Tree another chance.
They need this redemption arc. They need this like almost
like changing of the perception around who he is as
a person, to try and frame him as though he's
grown as a person, he's like a kind and empathetic
(18:12):
man now he's learnt from his ways. But they also
need the contrast of Courtney there to put the hard
word on him. And I think that this is all
a setup and we will probably see in a few
months time that they're back in a relationship together.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
It's funny because the first thing I thought was exactly that.
I was like, there's no other reason than everyone, even
her best friend said to her, like, you know, you
should be finding for your family. Maybe you should be
giving him another go for your family. Which I have
opinions about that as well. It has to be right,
like everyone in your life that you love and that
(18:45):
loves you can't be this pro somebody that just fucked
you over so many times. So I think that you're
onto something. I think that it is. It is a
redemption arc for a reason. They are going to bring
him back in and they'll probably end up getting back
to other.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
But also when it comes to the kind of I
think we are all very aware that every single thing
that happens in that show, every single storyline, has been
contrived and created for a purpose. It has been either
created to Ganna pr It's been created to push the
show further, because obviously they still need to continue to
have exciting and relevant things happening in their lives in
(19:20):
order to maintain relevancy forever, you know, like you can't
just live a normal life to have a reality TV show.
So I think that this is a setup for the
next story arc that's coming, and that's kind of how
they roll these things one into the other. But I
think the bigger and probably more interesting question to kind
of move it away and shift gears away from the
Kardashians is so here is Courtney, and she's putting the
(19:42):
hard word on Tristan.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
She obviously protects her sister.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
She cares about the fact that her sister has been
lied to, that she's been coerced into having a baby
who was lying to her and having a baby with
someone else. Like the absolute magnitude of the lies in
which he spread are unbelievable. And I think if we
were ever to do an ask gun cut for someone
one who'd sent in a question like that, we'd be like,
fucking remove him from your life, co parent, but just
(20:05):
like cut ties, but the way in which like a
normal psychologist, therapist, literally your friend, anyone giving advice to
this relationship would be to cut this person out of
your life. So it's very interesting that in this instance
there's so many people within her life which are saying, like,
give him another chance. Now, the big question is is
if this was somebody who was in your life, if
(20:26):
this was your friend, if this was your sister, and
they were in a relationship with someone who had cheated
on them multiple times and they wanted to go back
and give that person another chance, do you have to
forgive and allow that person the partner, back into your
life as the supportive friend or the supportive sister because
(20:46):
the person who you love has chosen to pursue a
relationship with them a third or fourth time.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
It's such a hard question, and obviously it depends so
much on the situation, what they did, the why, what
they've done after, and how they've tried to get you
back and make amends. In the cut Ashian situations of
interest in situation and Chloe absolutely not I would be
Courtney right in that situation, I would be like, you
have had enough chances, and I think I would be
(21:11):
pretty obvious in my dislike for that person. If my
sister's partner, for example, like had cheated once, accidentally made amends,
was sorry, was doing everything you can to get the
family back on track, then I think that's different, right,
because I do believe people do make mistakes. I believe
it's very situational, and I believe it's what you do
after the fact that makes you who you are. Right, It's, yes,
(21:33):
you've done something, but what's your reaction to that. I
think it's the same with friends, Like I have some
friends whose partners have cheated before and we've ended up
all getting like all our of our friend groups go
on like nothing happened eventually because they work through it,
they're happy and it's fine. But then I have friends
whose partner have cheated in more horrific ways, and I
can't get on board with that. But I want to
(21:53):
support my friends. So it's a really you know, if
your friend says that they're happy in that situation, it's
really difficult.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
I think that is the hardest part of it, right,
Like I do think that this, And I know that
this is a relevant question because we have received so
many ask gun cuts over the years from people who
are like, I love my friend, I hate their partner,
I hate the way their partner treats them, but they're
giving them another chance, Like how do I navigate this situation?
And I do think that it's very corrosive not just
(22:19):
on the relationship between your partner and your friendship group,
but it's really corrosive as well on your relationship with
your friends, Like it can change in terms of like,
as much as you want to support them, it's very
hard to be around someone whose values you despise and
who you have grown to resent because of how they
treat your friend. And sometimes it's like you just kind
(22:39):
of want to shake someone and be like, how can
you not want better for yourself?
Speaker 1 (22:42):
How can you not think that you're worthy of better
than this?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
And I don't want to be in the same room
as this person who treats you so badly and pretend
like we accept them again and everything's fine, and we
do the small talk and we pretend like, you know,
you're not a bad person.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
And I don't say bad person.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Because obviously like, cheating doesn't instantly make you a bad person,
but repair lying cheating and treating someone as though they're
disposable but not letting them walk away and wanting to
reinvest in the relationship and then doing the same behavior
does make you a pretty shitty person. The only thing
I think about these types of situations, and with this
guy Tristan specifically, is that I think the only way
(23:18):
that people who are like this do change their behavior
is when they hit rock bottom. You have to hit
absolute rock bottom. You have to lose everything to be
able to get to a point where you change that
behavior and you understand the way in which you're treating
people is not viable and you can't continue to do that.
And I think that that's the case for some people
(23:39):
who are terrible cheaters or who are incredibly manipulative. Once
they've hit rock bottom and they realize that they've lost everything,
they can sometimes go through the process of making amends.
Is this going to be the case in the Kardashian storyline, No,
who knows. Who knows, But it's a very hard thing
to navigate when you love someone and they're your best friend,
but then they're using to be in a relationship with
(24:01):
somebody who devalues them all the time, and you're expected
to accept that. I wanted to talk about a documentary
which Britt, you watched on the weekend. I watched it
on the weekend and it has left me absolutely traumatized.
I sent Britt a photo last night and I had
tears streaming down my face when I was watching this.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
I did message you and say, be you ready, because
no one can watch this documentary without being severely affected.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
And I was like, I actually don't think I'm ever
going to be okay again. And Matt was He was
sitting in the kitchen and I was trying to explain
to him the storyline of what was happening as it
was happening.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Now.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
It's a Netflix docker that came out in June this
year called Take Care of Maya.
Speaker 6 (24:39):
We as parents tried to do the best we can
for our children. But there's nothing that could prepare me
for what I went through. Nothingada and I had a
beautiful family, but then Maya Steria gets sick.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Mayo had advanced complex regional pain syndrome. And we know
what the best therapy is for.
Speaker 5 (25:05):
It's called ketemine.
Speaker 6 (25:09):
We're just blessed that we've finally seen something working.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
But Mayo relapsed.
Speaker 6 (25:15):
The artists explaining to the emergency room, this is what
needs to be done.
Speaker 5 (25:20):
You don't understand how much medication it takes to control
her pain.
Speaker 6 (25:25):
But they didn't listen.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
They choose the arta of medical child abuse and that swoon.
Speaker 6 (25:31):
They told me I had to leave that my daughter
is under state custody.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
The reason why we are talking about it now is
because the case that has been surrounding this documentary has
just been finalized recently and there has been an enormous,
enormous payout to this little girl, Maya Kowowski and her family.
So just the other week, on November nine, there was
a settlement more than two hundred million dollars or were
false imprisonment, call negligence, battery, fraud, and intentional infliction of
(26:04):
emotional distress.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah, they ended up with two hundred and sixty one
million combined in damages and punitive damages total. That is
the one of the biggest payouts has ever happened in
a hospital environment.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Now, if you haven't seen the docer, I just want
to kind of set up what happened for you, so
that you know what it is that we're talking about.
So Maya, she was a normal little girl, had a
beautiful mum and dad and a little brother, and she,
at the age of seven, started having this pain syndrome
that's called CRPS and its complex regional pain syndrome. So
(26:35):
Maya was taken to all these different hospitals. She was
taking to all these different doctors because what she was
experiencing was a super rare condition that not many people
knew what it was nor how to treat it. And
for a long time there they even thought that maybe
she was making up the symptoms and it was actually
a psychological disorder. Eventually, her mother found a doctor who
(26:55):
specialized in this type of rare pain condition. And it
turns out that the treatment for this rare pain condition
is and now it sounds crazy, but it's ketamine. They
prescribe ketamine in different doses depending on how debilitating the
pain is. And so at the time she was seven
when she was diagnosed, and then she went through this
crazy like induced ketamine coma, which was experimental treatment that
(27:19):
happened in Mexico. Her feet had started to turn in.
She had gone from being a fully functioning little girl
to being unable to walk, unable to sleep, unable to
really lift her arms up or do anything because of
the amount and severity of pain that she was in.
Her mother was Polish and her name was Biata, and
she was a nurse herself, so she was the one
who was really spearheading the treatment plan for her and
(27:41):
like taking her to these doctors to ensure that her
little girl was getting seen to. And so she went
had this induced coma done, this ketamine coma. The symptoms
started getting better and better after the coma, and it
kind of rewires the brain and how the brain received
the pain, and so she was actually so much better
afters and that was maintained for an entire year, and
(28:04):
then after a year, the treatment kind of just wore
off and the pain came back, and so Maya was
rushed to the local emergency and that's where their lives
completely unraveled. So when she was rushed to the emergency,
the ED doctors were questioning why Maya was on such
high levels of ketamine. They were questioning why her mother
(28:24):
was pushing for different types of prescriptions or doses in
terms of managing the pain. And that was where they
started to think that maybe Biata had Munchausen's by proxy
and was actually the one who was making Maya sick.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
So the hospital that she was taken to, which I
think is really important, is John Hopkins Hospital in Florida.
And the reason this is really important is because throughout
the documentary we discover that there have been a lot
of similar cases at said hospital. It didn't seem to
be a one off. This misdiagnosis was quite common. Watching
the way they treated the mother, which ultimately, and they
(28:57):
do show this in the documentary, ultimately led to her suicide,
and watching the way they treated Maya was like nothing
I have ever seen before. This disease presents as almost
an invisible disease. But also the fact that they didn't
even look into it. They didn't listen, and they didn't
hear what the family was saying. They didn't hear what
Maya the patient was saying. And there's a one scene
(29:18):
in it that really shocked me where she's really really
she's crying, she's grown up, years have gone past because
they're still fighting this court case, and she says, I
just want to be heard. No one is listening to me,
and it took me back to when she was in
the hospital, screaming in pain, trying to explain what was
wrong with her and what she's feeling, and being told
that she's making it up. I cannot imagine what you
(29:40):
would be going through in that situation where you're begging
for somebody to help you, and not only are they
not helping you, but they're making the condition worse and
they're making your life worse.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Well, just to kind of give you a bit of
the backstory of them, what happens so like Maya's mum,
because they thought that she was the one who was
inflicting this condition on her daughter. Her daughter, Maya was
made basically a water of the state. So they were
taken a custody away from them. They weren't allowed any
visitation rights. So imagine at this point in time, Mayra
is only ten years old. She has been denied any
(30:09):
visitation from her parents. She has a chronic pain condition.
She's all on her own in a hospital, and she's
being cared for by a social worker and also by
a doctor. Now her name is Sally Smith, and she's
the one who's doing the investigation into what is essentially
deemed child abuse. And now what Britt referred to is
that this hospital itself has double the rate of incidences
(30:31):
of children being taken away from parents for suspected child abuse,
double the average. I can't even imagine what it would
be to have a child and have them be in
so much pain and then be blamed for that pain
when all you're trying to do is make them better.
Thing that was in this instance that was so harrowing
is that the condition she has, so the thing that
(30:52):
she was being denied and said that it wasn't that
she didn't have that it was all make believe. The
hospital had said that it wasn't this illness, it wasn't
cup this thing that they had denied. This whole time,
they were still billing and they had built over six
hundred and fifty thousand dollars to the insurance company, because
you've got to remember, in this states, all of hospitals
are privatized, and so medical and medical health care is
(31:16):
privatized there. So they were billing the insurance company over
six hundred and fifty thousand dollars in billings for the
treatment of the exact thing that they said that she
didn't have in the first place.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Yeah, and the way Maya describes it is quote unquote
medical abduction. They inflicted these rules that the family could
not visit her, they could have no contact because they
thought that this was the reason she was sick. So
now you've got a ten year old girl that is
in so much pain that no one's believing that is
having her parents taken away from her. She was forced
(31:46):
to do things she didn't want to do. There's one
part where she was forced to take her clothes off,
just keep her bra and undies on, and they held
her down to take photos. She was screaming no. And
the only reason that they're able to make this documentary,
the only reason that they're able to go to court
because of how amazing her mother was at documenting every
single thing. So every single phone call she ever made,
(32:07):
every single treatment, every single request, every visit, everything that
that daughter, any interaction that she had was noted down.
And I guess that comes from a I mean, of
course she was being a protective mother, but be it
comes from being a nurse where you have to write
down everything you have. And the reason that this hasn't
gone to court before with any other families is because
no one's ever had the evidence to provide for it,
(32:29):
because no one ever writes them, because no one ever
thinks that you have to document every single thing, Like
every how many times do you call a doctor about
the girls, Laura, and you don't write it down, and
you don't write down who you spoke to and when
you did and what they said and what the outcome was.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Yeah, but if you were being criminally investigated for child
abuse that you hadn't done and you knew that your
child was in pain and they were not being treated.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
She did that even before she was being accused of anything.
Like She's just a really thorough mother that had her
whole life been taught in nursing to write everything down,
So from the second her daughter got sea, she had
everything written well.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
I think the other part of this as well, is
so Beata was Polish, and it's established early on in
the documentary that she could be quite abrupt in the
way that she communicated. But I also think that that
comes as part and parcel of English being a second language.
And I think that there is definitely some racism that
is imdued in this, the fact that they thought that
(33:22):
Bearta was too pushy, that she was too aggressive in
the way that she spoke. The way in which she
handled herself got the hospital offside, which meant that they
fought her harder. They fought her as though she was
the problem. I don't even know how to describe it,
but it is just like tapped so deeply into a
mother's love for her daughter, and she truly would have
done anything for Maya. But basically what happened is that
(33:44):
Biarta was being investigated, so she had criminal charges against
her for child abuse, even though she had in no
way inflicted any abuse onto Maya, and so it had
been made very very clear to her through so many
court proceedings and failed court proceedings. At this point in time,
Maya had been in prison in the hospital for three
months without having any access to her mother apart from
(34:05):
a phone call which was regulated by the hospital, and
the hospital had taken even more liberties in sanctioning the
type of contact that Maya was able to have with
her mother, and so she had gone to another court proceeding.
It was a failed court proceeding. She was not allowed
to see Maya, she was not allowed to hug Meyer,
and it was made very clear that for as long
as Bearda was in the picture, and for as long
(34:27):
as Bearda was in the family home, that Maya would
not be coming home. But the issue with the condition
that Maya had is that if it had continued to
go untreated, if it continued to not be taken care of,
that she would have deteriorated. And the professional and medical
advice from her main doctor who had been caring for
her up until this point was that if she doesn't
(34:47):
get the treatment and get it soon, she will end
up dying, and it will be a very slow and
suffering death. I can only imagine being in that situation
as a mother, when you have zero options. You have
been deemed the prob you have been deemed the only
reason why your child is not allowed to leave hospital
and to be able to get the treatment in which
she so desperately needs.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
What are your options?
Speaker 2 (35:10):
And I think sometimes we I mean trigger warning, we
are going to speak about suicide. I know you mentioned
it already, Britt, but like we often talk about suicide
as though it's a selfish thing. And when so Matt
was sitting in the background, he could see this play
out on the TV, and he's like, he didn't get
the whole of the story. He was only dipping it
into being out and he's like, I feel so angry
at her mum for taking her life. I feel so
(35:30):
angry at her mom for feeling so as though the
situation was so helpless that she wasn't able to continue
to quote unquote fight. But what actually happened in this
situation is Yes, I'm sure that played a part of it.
I'm sure there was a part where she felt completely
defeated by the system, but by Bata suiciding, she actually
then enabled Maya to be able to be let out
(35:52):
of hospital. So it was like the most unbelievable, Like
it makes me mean to cry thinking about it. It was
the most unbelievable sacrifice mother could make to try and
save her child.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yeah, I definitely look at this different and I hate
that that was how they made her feel. Like a
hospital is supposed to be a safe place and help people,
and the hospital is genuinely the reason she ended her life. Yes,
she had another child as well, and she had a husband,
but I couldn't imagine that decision knowing that the only
way to stop the pain and slow death of one
(36:22):
child is to end your life, which in turn, is
going to inflict a lot of pain in the rest
of your family and that daughter. But I understand almost
why she did it when you watch the documentary.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
There's this one doctor. Her name is doctor Sally Smith.
She's the one who originated the inquiry and the investigation
into these child abuse claims. She's the one who who
put together the case for it. And it did make
me ask some questions. I guess because she's a person
who has genuinely been exposed to so much trauma in
(36:53):
her life. She has been exposed to so much child abuse,
and she is the reason why this hospital itself has
a two times higher right of separating parents from their children.
But it also makes you think, like, if you've been
surrounded by true trauma for so long, if you have
seen the most horrific things, would you not then have
(37:14):
that sort of mentality of like I would rather be
overcautious than under cautious. I would rather do what I
can to protect children. If she genuinely believed that she
was protecting children rather than reuniting children with their family,
because I think she would carry this weight and this
burden of like, well, what if I reunite a child
with a parent who is actually an abuser and then
(37:35):
something happens. I mean, my heart goes out to anyone
who works in child protection and has to actually make
these decisions and has to try and figure out, well,
what is the best thing for that child.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
I agree with you in terms of what doctor Silly Smith,
you know, I can't imagine how hard that job is
to be the person that decides if a child goes
home to a family that could be abusive or not. Like,
I can't imagine what that is like for me. That
wasn't the problem. The problem was how they went about it.
They didn't do the tests, they weren't having the right communication,
the way they spoke to them and treated them like
there were criminals. From the day that they walked in
(38:08):
that door.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
She was this very unique type of person who never
thought she could be wrong. And I think that that's
when it is so dangerous. If you are in a
caring position, as in like a position of authority. If
you're in a position of care, but you have the
demeanor that you do not make mistakes, and you can't
make mistakes, what it means is then once you've made
(38:30):
up your decision about someone whether that be from a feeling,
whether that be from a hunch, whether that be because
of some of the facts might indicate X, rather than why.
It means that you become so monofocused that you actually
can't acknowledge or consider the alternate option. And I think
there's people that do this in many, many walks of life.
(38:51):
Whereas obviously, when it's a situation like this, it can
be so incredibly damning. But if you're someone who like,
you know, I feel like is the way it is,
So therefore I'm going to ignore other facts in order
to believe what I feel is true. And that's what
doctor Sally Smith did.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, she was not right. There was something off about her.
I don't think she's the right person to be in
that position. She's definitely not the right person. Now we
are lacking of empathy right well? Yeah, and the other
thing is that really maybe one day is this the
whole hospital environment? Is this the judiciary system? Is this
Sally Smith? I mean they say the problem was the mother,
right like, we can't let you go home because it's
not safe, et cetera, et cetera. When her mother took
(39:30):
her life. They allowed Maya to see the family. And
Maya took to the stands throughout this trial, and she
spoke a lot, and she read a lot of statements,
and she had said she was only given one hour,
one hour with her father after learning of her mother's suicide.
And she said, if I'm being completely honest, it was
actually so unbelievably cruel the amount of time they allocated
(39:51):
for me to spend with my family after hearing such
awful news. So how does that work? If you have
said a like, what normal person or institution allow that
the girl is ten years old? How do you take
her from a family when her mother has just ended
her life and put her back in a hospital alone.
But if you said the problem was the mother anyway,
which we know it's not. But if you have said that,
(40:12):
why are you still keeping her from being with her
father in this time? This is the stuff that I
don't get. There are so so much wrong with this case,
Like there are so many avenues and so many people
that are at fault completely and utterly let this girl
and let this family down.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
The reason why I think it can happen so prolifically
within the States is because of the fact that hospitals
are privatized and they make a lot of money. So
the fact that they are businesses, they make money by
what they prescribe, by how they have patients. The more operations,
the more procedures, the more things that they can do
within the hospital unit, the more money that the hospital
(40:47):
actually makes.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
I understand the difficulty. I mean thirteen years I worked
in specialist kids hospitals and normal hospitals that kids come into,
and I have reported suspected child abuse before even the
reporting from end. I mean, there are very specific pathways
that you have to take. You know, you're ticking off checklists.
It's a real order, like a real process. But that
(41:09):
decision to even report that, because at the end of
the day, you are usually in a room with a
child and its parent on your own as a medical professional.
Sometimes there'll be someone else but making that decision to
report someone because you're not reporting that they are. You're
just saying something's not right and I'm not sure about it.
And the reason you do that is there are very
(41:29):
specific injuries and breaks and things like that that you
know can only present from things that would be linked
to abuse. Twisting, injuries, falling from a height, different things
like that. But kids also fall from a height, so
it is really difficult to make. I've reported people before
from the way they've interacted with their child and linked
that to an injury. But the push and pull that
you feel internally to even make that report because you think,
(41:52):
what if this is not and it's so normal, and
I put this family through even just an investigation, right
even being accused or saying, hey, we need to talk
about suspect each old that is horrific if it's not.
But then if you don't do that and it is, well,
then you're sending a child home like you won't sleep
at night, you send in a child home knowing that
something could be wrong. So I understand from that point
of view why she did what she did, doctor Staley Smith,
(42:14):
But there is not one part of the way that
she went about it that was correct, that was right,
and that's what I's I think that's the difference with Australia,
like we have so many checklists to follow, and we
follow it too, like immaculately.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
But that's also because you can't prophetize off it, like
there's no profiting off that situation. And I think when
money is the end goal of any business, there will
always be people who abuse the system. The thing that
I think about this documentary which does relate to what
happens here in Australia, especially if you are the victim
of something and you're up against a big corporation or
(42:47):
a big business or a big company that has so
much money to throw at these sorts of legal proceedings.
What we see happen in this documentary is that the
hospital keeps the Kowalski family in the court battle for
like five years. And the reason why they do that
is because it was said halfway through that they knew
that if they got on the stand, if it went
to trial, that they had enough evidence to bury the
(43:09):
hospital for what they had done. So the hospital's only
tactic was to try and keep the legal proceedings bleed
them out as much as they possibly could in terms
of their finances, in terms of their ability to keep
the court battle going. Five years on, they finally were
able to stand trial and to take their case to court.
But the thing is is when big companies do this,
(43:31):
they do this in the hope that people will take
a settlement or they'll bow out early because they can't
possibly keep it going for so long.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Yeah, nine percent of I mean probably ninety nine percent
of people do not have the finances to fight a
big conglomerate like an enormous hospital in a court system
for five years. And the father makes that comment all
the way through, and he says to his kids, you know,
his kids want to give up at some point, and
he says, you know, that's what they want. They are
pushing this court battle back because they know we're going
(43:58):
to win if we can get on this, so they're
doing everything they can to stop it, hoping that they
bleed us dry, we run out of money, or we
emotionally don't have it in this anymore, and we give up.
And I love the fact that he said the only
way to make a difference is to not give up
and to be loud, like, we need to keep making
noise and keep making sure our voices are heard. And
I can't imagine how to feed in. It would be
(44:19):
every time you get so close to so close to
a trial and then the hospital comes in and the
judge says, now we're gonna wait, We're gonna wait, We're
gonna Oh. I just cannot imagine, especially because the father,
like I really felt for him. He's trying to fight
for his daughter, but he's fighting for his late wife
as well, who took her own life because of this
same system that he's trying to squish him like a
little bug on the road.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
But this stuff also happens, I mean, it happens with
insurance companies, that there are so many people who have
been through something traumatic, something horrific, where it should seem
like it is a clear cutcase, but it is a
tactic that wears people down within the legal system in
order for the person who is at fault to pay
the least amount of money and to be able to
settle outside of court. But it does make you think,
(45:00):
you know, it's two hundred and sixty million dollars, it
sounds like it's an incomprehensible amount of money, But there
is no amount of money that could put a value
on the fact of what this family went through and
the fact that the only way of getting their daughter
out of hospital was for the mother to take her
own life.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
No, and I have no doubt that'd give it all
up in a heartbeat to have changed their story and
to change the outcome.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
It's honestly, I know we've spoken about it for a while,
but I wish I could say, like, I do not
have words for how much it affected me watching that,
And I think as a mum, it makes you question, like,
what would the length be that you would go to
protect your child? If your child was somebody who was
suffering from chronic illness, what lengths would you go to
to try and make that pain stop?
Speaker 1 (45:36):
It absolutely flawed me. Yeah, we can't recommend the documentary
enough and even though we've spoken about it, you will
still take so much away from it. I had heard
this story so many times, which is why, like I'd
read about it on the news, which is why I
didn't jump to the doco straight away. I always saw
it advertised, and I thought not for me. I know
the story, and I'm so glad I watched it finally,
because there is so much to this story that I
(45:58):
didn't know, and also information hits different when it's coming
straight from the source and their personal experience. So I
genuinely cannot recommend this enough. You know, we never finished
an episode without our suck and our sweet, our highlight
and our low light.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Mine.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
I feel is really easy this week. My suck is
probably just how bad I still feel post my egg
freezing procedure. It's really hung around. I'm very, very uncomfortable.
Feel like if you put a pin in me on
pop That's how I feel. I feel like I need
to do the biggest part you've ever heard, but I can't.
Like son. It feels like it's full of gas, but
(46:33):
it's not. It's because all my insides are literally on steroids,
like this swollen. So that's my suck.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Would Ben going home not be your suck? Would him
leaving well, no again, not be like the suckiest part
of your week.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Yeah, but I was trying to make a note at
all about Ben. But my other suck is that last
night I ordered my favorite Italian Ben and I for
his last meal, his last meal, we ordered my favorite
Italian from this restaurant down the road. It's Fedi chini
cabanara with chicken. I love it. Anyway, I was shoveling
that in and I hadn't finished mine yet when it
was time for Ben to go, so I sort of
left it up on the ledge of my couch when
(47:07):
out the front with Ben came back in and Delilah
had eaten the whole fit A Chiney company that is
so bad for you and for her such a little bit.
My sweet is you know two things. Ben came to
visit and we had a really nice couple of days.
And on top of that, I actually got some eggs
from this procedure. So I feel like it's Ben coming
and getting some eggs there my sweets.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Okay, My suck for the week is that yesterday on
the plane on the flat home, you know what, the
air pressure and we have a drink bottle and then
you take the lid off and the air pressure makes
the water just spray out everywhere. So Lola maybe two,
but she still has a baby bottle that she uses
to get to sleep. She has a baby bottle. She
likes warm water in it. Don't ask me. I can't
be bothered to die on that hill. She can have
(47:47):
it until she's over it. So we're on the plane
and I packed the baby bottle. I put a lid
in it because I was like, you know what, she
might want to sleep on the plane.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
I'll take it just in case.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
How will my creature comforts The full bottle was in
my bag and it turns out that the air pressure
had popped the lid off. The baby bottle entirely. The
entire thing had tipped out into my handbag, and my
laptop had been swimming in eight hundred mills of water
for the entire flight and the whole trip home. So
now my laptop is fucked. I have no laptop at
the moment. I'm leaving this to go straight to the
(48:17):
Apple store to buy myself.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
A new one. That's why are using my iPad right now.
I'm using prints iPad. Matt has been Matt's an angel
sent for the heavens. He's trying so hard to resurrect it.
He's currently got a boll up.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
He's currently got my laptop at home in a box
full of rice. But it's just one of those things
where we came home for the most beautiful holiday, the
beautiful three days away, and I was like, oh, I'm
so happy, and then I was like, ah, I'm fucking Mezrah. Okay,
only because I'm starting to realize all the shit that's
on that laptop that I've now lost, like all the files,
all the working files, all the things that I need
to get stuff done.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
That I'm like, oh, it's gone. It really says you
back in life, doesn't it. Really does.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
It's like doing a UNI in year twelve and getting
almost finished and then it crashing and losing the whole thing,
Like you's what that reminded me ofbout Yeah anyway, and
then my sweet for the week is that we had
three nights we went to Elements. I know I've spoken
about Elements and bar and Bay before, but honestly, it
is my dream place.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
And this is not sponsored. We pay full price for
the place.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
I just it's the only place that I've been to
with kids where I genuinely walk away and I feel
like I've had a relaxing holiday, like I've had three
days to completely switch off. And it's because it's the
kind of place that has everything that kids need for
them to have a good time, but also everything that
an adult needs for them to have a good time.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
So everyone's having a good time and it's a great location.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
And it was just beautiful, and so were three nights
great weather. Like my cup is very full and overflowing
into my laptoin into the.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
That is it from us, guys. Please, if you have
any questions for asking Cart, or you have embarrassing moments,
please write them into our Instagram life on Cup Podcast
and you know the durnal Tell your mum, tell your dad,
Tell your dad.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Tear.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
Friends are general because well love by Appian Vakata
Speaker 6 (50:05):
Kaaaay kabaa
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