August 11, 2023 • 71 mins
Picture this: A life cloaked in crime, a past daubed with felonies, a future seemingly bleak and uncertain. Then envision a transformation so profound, it shatters the chains of the past, leading to a career that would be envied by many. That's exactly the metamorphosis our guest, Sullivan Rogers, went through. From serving time behind bars to serving customers in a car dealership, Sullivan's journey is anything but ordinary.
In our enlightening conversation with Sullivan, he unravels how he swapped a life of crime for a career in the auto industry. After his release from prison in '95, Sullivan hustled his way to Great Lakes Honda West, where he went from being viewed as a risk to clinching the title of 'Salesman of the Year.' Hear his inspiring story of resilience and redemption, how he climbed from being a salesperson to becoming a director of the special finance department, despite skepticism and societal stigma.
As we continue our engaging discourse, Sullivan sheds light on the importance of mentorship and second chances in his extraordinary turnaround. From his attempts to secure a clean slate by seeking a pardon to the hurdles he had to clear to get hired, Sullivan shares it all. He also discusses his decision to take a pay cut to amass experience that eventually led him to be the General Sales Manager and Marketing Per Se for Great Lakes Honda West. Tune in for a captivating journey of transformation, filled with invaluable lessons on change, rebirth, and the power of resilience.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Remie (00:19):
Welcome to Lockdown Alive .
See stories from the inside out.
I'm your host, remy Jones.
Debbie (00:25):
And I'm co-host Debbie Jones.
We are a husband and wife teamhere to bring you the real life
stories, experiences andquestions around the American
criminal justice system.
We do advise discretion withthis podcast.
I think we should put that outthere first and foremost.
We are going to talk aboutexperiences that happen inside
the prison system.
Outside of prison systems.
(00:46):
We will use language that mightbe offensive, but we intend to
keep it real, and if that's notfor you, we totally understand.
So please do what's best foryour listening years.
Remie (01:00):
Our goal of this podcast is to share the inside realities
of the American prison andcriminal justice system, from
precharges all the way to postrelease, from the voices of
those who experienced the firsthand, including me.
Debbie (01:12):
That's right, let's get into it.
Remie (01:15):
Thanks, so for the last few weeks I've been doing this
(01:58):
series called the Summer LegacySeries.
Sullivan (02:02):
Okay.
Remie (02:03):
And so I don't know if you've seen my podcast.
It's called Lockdown to Legacy.
No, that's all right.
What platform are we going to?
It's hosted on Buzzsprout, okay, and it's on all the major
podcast catalogs so you can getit on Google podcasts, apple
(02:24):
podcasts, spotify, iheart radio,all of them, okay.
So lately not lately, for thefirst few months, we basically
just highlighted the experienceof going through the justice
system, the legal system, whatit's like in prison, different
(02:48):
aspects of it and a lot of thehardships, because I feel like
society don't really know whatgoes on behind bars.
Oh, absolutely not.
And then when you get out, it'slike a million obstacles.
Even though you served yourtime, you're still not done.
So, as you say, you're a felon.
(03:09):
You all of a sudden lose a lotof housing opportunities, you
lose a lot of job opportunities.
You lose a lot.
And so I decided, instead offocusing on that for the summer,
I wanted to start highlightingpeople that have been
incarcerated and are doing greatthings.
(03:30):
I know a lot of girls I waslocked up with that release
albums that got communityprograms, that got a great job
and got a family, whatever it is.
So I was like let's focus onthat, let's forget about the
negative aspects for it andlet's show that these are actual
(03:54):
people and people can change.
They are humans and they havegreat stuff going on.
But yeah, I just want to takeaway that whole.
As soon as you say the wordfelon, let me hold my purse
close to mentality.
Sullivan (04:07):
Yeah, clutching the pearls.
Remie (04:13):
Yeah.
So in doing all this, man, Ihad a few guys on already and I
remembered all of a sudden thatyou had told me you've been
incarcerated and I don't reallyknow a lot about it and I don't
know how much you want to tell,so I'm going to leave that up to
you.
Sullivan (04:28):
I don't even talk about it.
Remie (04:30):
You don't talk about it.
Sullivan (04:31):
I mean it's not something I like how do I put it
?
It's not like I'm ashamed of itor something, it's just
something I don't even thinkabout.
That was one of them.
It was a point in time in mylife, you know, when I used to
really actually think about itis when I fill out a job
application and then the firstquestion they asked is they
asked me about it.
Remie (04:50):
Yeah, exactly.
So I mean I wrote down a fewquestions here.
I'm going to ask, and I don'tknow if you can talk about it or
not.
Sullivan (05:02):
My name is Sullivan Rogers and I'm a general sales
manager.
Slash marketing per se, GreatLakes, Honda West in Illyrio
Ohio.
Remie (05:17):
Okay, Okay.
So I guess for the audience man, I'll tell everybody that I
first met Sullivan because hewas a friend of my family and
mostly because I think it'sbecause my family bought cars
from you.
Sullivan (05:35):
No, actually your mom worked with my mom for like 15
years.
Oh, okay, all right, I justknow that you know whenever I
used to call a hospital,whenever I used to call the
hospital, your mom went afterthe phone, but I never actually
met her.
Remie (05:53):
That makes sense.
Okay, see, I ain't know thatman, I just know when I got home
, my mom was like, hey, I needyou to go over here and see
Sullivan, he might be able tohelp you get a job.
So yeah, that's how I first met.
Sullivan was going to apply fora job at a dealership and I
(06:14):
went in there to talk to him andgave me some advice, man, and
then I turned into sort of amentorship relationship and then
a friendship, or at least whatI consider friendship.
I hope it's a friendship.
So, yeah, I don't know yourstory, man, about like
(06:35):
incarceration, how long ago itwas, how long it was for what
you did, I don't know if youwant to talk about that, but the
important part is, yeah, Idon't have a problem talking
about that.
What's that?
Sullivan (06:45):
I don't have a problem talking speaking on that, okay.
So let me see I'm going to go alittle bit.
Before that I came out of BokleHigh School in the early 90s.
I went to college and dated inOhio and a lot of people might
(07:10):
relate to this.
But you ever can see thedirection you're going but you
just don't know what to do tostop it.
That's kind of where I was at.
I was in college but mentally Iwasn't committed to it.
I was just doing something topass the time.
(07:30):
But even in college I kind ofhad a thing going on where we
were at, a group of guysbreaking into dorm rooms,
stealing objects, taking themdown to Cincinnati to the pawn
shop and doing that.
I was more concentrated on thecrying side of things than
actually trying to get a degreeor anything of that nature.
(07:52):
So what I ended up doing aftermy freshman year in college I
didn't go back and the summer inbetween freshman and sophomore
years in college I ended up.
We used to go to thisdealership.
We would go up there stillabout eight, nine cars at a time
(08:13):
, and I ended up still in a carpulled behind the school so I
can switch the plates pull,these pulled up on me and when
that happened I had a gun on me.
So I actually ended up gettingprobation.
(08:34):
And the day I got probation Iwent to court to get probation.
I never even went and seen myprobation officer.
I moved down to Atlanta I wasstill going down to where I was
going to college at Dayton,hanging out whatever Came up
here in June of 94 to just cameto see the family or whatever,
(08:59):
and went up to Kent State to seesome female leaving Kent State,
got pulled over and of course Ihad a warrant for my arrest and
I had a gun in the car.
So I ended up getting asentence, sent me down to the
land capture, which was a prettyfucked up experience, but just
(09:24):
living, quality of life,everything.
But at the end of the day it isprison.
So about a year and a half downthere they offered me probation
.
I had six months left on mysentence.
They brought me back forprobation and it would have been
(09:45):
like two years probation and Iended up turning it down and
said I'll do the rest of my sixmonths because I already knew I
wasn't going to follow the ruleswhen I got out.
And so crazy thing is, while Iwas still in there I didn't know
, I didn't understand that whenI got pulled over with the gun
in the car I still had a chargeout there for that.
(10:07):
So they were planning onmeeting me at the gate on my
release date and making me backto Kent and I had another inmate
who actually explained all ofthis to me.
So I got an attorney and shegot it squared away and got it
in the court before I gotreleased and I got bail for that
(10:27):
charge.
So when I got released I couldbe out.
But I ended up gettingsentenced again.
So I ended up getting outFebruary 27th to 95.
And got out.
We're still really didn't haveany direction.
But I knew I wasn't going backto prison for just dumb shit, do
(10:51):
a ride, and stuff like that.
It was going to be about somemoney being made.
So, and you know, I basicallysold dope from that point on
until 2000, probably 13.
And around 2010, I startedlooking for a job and we talked
about 1995 to 2010, like 15years I was doing you know
(11:15):
whatever.
And then I decided to look fora job.
My kids they wanted to knowwhat I did for a living and
stuff like that.
We had a nice house, we hadcars, everything, and I didn't
want my kids doing what I did.
So you know and the whole youknow.
So that's that you know, and wecould get into the whole job
search thing later.
Oh yeah.
Remie (11:36):
That's one of the questions, for sure, but I just
really wanted to know like Iguess you already answered, I
was going to ask what made youseek out that change.
Sullivan (11:52):
So those are like a series of events that took place
between, I'll say, 2008 or 2007to about 2000 years, so like
20-10,.
(12:12):
I was in my mid-30s so two ofmy dudes caught fake cases and
they were both older than me andboth died, sentenced to like 18
years.
Oh and that's not real.
I don't want to be catching afake case.
But 35, getting 10 years, thatwas one of the high-opening
(12:38):
moments.
My kids, my oldest kids theywere in high school.
I had some in middle school andthey were starting to really
like wonder what I did.
I mean they basically knew, youknow they weren't stupid.
So you know that was a part ofit and you know I had a
(12:59):
situation not to get into theparticulars but I went down
south, you know, got pulledalong the way home a couple
times, searched the car you knowpretty well, you know, and
basically the way it happened, Iknew this was not a coincidence
.
Remie (13:18):
Yeah, I mean, you mentioned that your friends got
to the Feds.
Sullivan (13:20):
Okay, I got to check your stuff, they'll stop.
Remie (13:23):
You mentioned your friends going to the Feds.
Sullivan (13:24):
They're uh they're conviction rate high yeah yeah,
you know the Feds pretty muchwhen they come to get you.
They got all the evidence onright.
It ain't like the police.
They got to build a case.
The Feds already got a case.
Yeah, they built a case twoyears before they picked you up.
Remie (13:44):
All right.
Now I heard you say like, youknow, you didn't have a lot of
direction still, like when yougot out and I can kind of relate
to that man Like because I hada juvie case it was like the
same way.
I ended up getting off betterthan I probably should have and
(14:04):
really ain't learned that.
And I mean, I started doingbetter but I ain't changed what
I was doing already.
So it was just like, basicallyit was like a good cover up.
You know like, oh, I'm doinggood stuff.
But I was going to ask like,did you know, like, where you
wanted to go, like, or where theroad will lead?
Because I'm going to tell you Ididn't.
I had no clue.
Sullivan (14:26):
So it kind of was like this so I got out February 27th
.
My birthday is February 28th,so I got a day before my 21st
birthday and I had the what $76they gave me.
And you know, and that wasabout it.
(14:48):
You know, my mom picked me upfrom Southeast Southeast, I
think an architecturalinstitution and he came back to
the house I took a shower, Ishaved, I was a little bit heat,
and then I sought out a coupleof friends.
(15:09):
I had one friend I was going togo tight with before I left.
We hung out for a couple of daysbut I realized our lives was in
different directions and thedirection he was going I didn't
want to be a part of.
So you know, I kind of like youknow, moved away from them as
far as a friend.
And that's when I like, afterabout a week, I sat down and was
(15:32):
like, okay, I got to put me astructure together, what I need
to do and what I want to do,where I want to go.
I made a conscious decision I'mabout to move to work and I
bought me a $50 dub.
I was on the corner of Madisonand Peckham for the next three
weeks.
I got up to 80.
That's my hood man.
Remie (15:54):
I mean, I'm at, though, like when you decided to change,
like when you got to the pointwhere you're like, all right,
I'm going to get a job, like didyou have a vision of where it
was going to lead to or whereyou were going?
Sullivan (16:04):
to not no, no, no, you know what.
Let me tell you the whole jobsearch thing was like it was
more frustrating for my wifethan for me because by me and me
and our program to hear theword now, early on, like that's
why I like when women get toldknow by me and they're so like
thrown off because they're soused to being just like come at
(16:27):
them all the time but me, andare used to hearing no women
tell them no all the time, youknow.
So you know being told nowasn't a big deal.
So going, you know, job searchand stuff like that, you know I
had already known my head andI'm not taking the job making
sure that I was found.
(16:47):
You know I need to maintain myway of living, so until I was
out I wasn't going to do it.
So you know I.
You know scour, you know, andit always went the same way.
You know there was, you know,smuggers, landau Lakes, at&t.
(17:10):
You know you go in, you fillout the application, you take
the test, they give you a mathtest, english test, a reading
comprehension test and you knowyou take all the three of the
tests and the way it works by.
I will watch the process.
It'd be 200 people trying toget, you know, 30 jobs, all 200
(17:35):
people that go in there and theytake that math test.
After the math test, you downto like 70 people.
After the reading comprehensiontest, you down to like 50
people.
After the computer skills orwhatever else next test, you
down about 15, 20 people.
And of those 15, 20 people, youknow everybody would get hired.
(17:58):
And then they would say to mewell, you got the highest scores
on everything, but you got to.
You want to tell me about thisfelony?
And you know, at the end of theday this was 2010, 2011, 2012,
you asked me about something Idid 15, 16 years ago that I
(18:19):
don't even remember clearly.
You know, and so you know, andthat's how it always went.
So I want you, but higher upsaid no, we can't hire you.
Okay.
So it got to a point like Iwouldn't even tell my wife that
I had a job interview.
You know, I wouldn't tell her,you know.
And so 2013, I enrolled in astark Kent State because, you
(18:49):
know, I was like let me get adegree.
You know I do that, you know,and I liked to write, I like to
read.
So I was like I did somecreative writing classes and
some other stuff and I realized,you know, there was nothing
fulfilling about going to schoolfor me because my academic
(19:10):
level was higher than myprofessor Most of my professors
who were in their 20s, which wasfunny to me.
And you know, I went to whatwas it?
Talking to one of my dudes andhe was like man, why don't you
sell cars?
He was like man, there's manycars you buy and sell on the
(19:32):
street.
Man, everybody know if they geta car from you it's a good car.
He was like your old school andstuff everybody in the city
driving one of your old schoolsbecause they knew that they know
how you take care of your car,so they know they're getting a
good car.
You know, I never looked at itthat way.
So I'm like car sale.
So I thought about it and so Iapplied at several dealerships
(19:54):
within the city and got calledinto a few and one interview was
so wild I think I just walkedout in the middle of the
interview.
Dude was talking so reckless tome.
I said listen, man, I'm a dudewith both of my favorite man.
I'm going to go ahead and getout this interview before
somebody get hurt, you know, andthe sad part about it was it
(20:16):
was a black dude, you know, andI was lying.
So I kind of put it down.
And when I bought my businessand then I was going to route a
one day going past Mike Pruitt,huh, and then I saw that I'm not
hiring signs.
So and at this time I kind ofreset my mind and like I'm about
to go ahead and recommit toeach street this job, shit ain't
working.
(20:37):
But I went ahead and got off,pulled around, walked into the
dealership and those twomanagers there, the general
manager and the general salesmanager and I didn't even know
that that was their titles atthe time and I said, uh, you
guys, uh and uh the generalmanager says to me, and I quote
(20:58):
are they having for detail inthe back, ask for, ask for, uh,
her shall?
And I looked at him and said Iain't watching, no fucking cars.
He just looked at me and wentright off I'm talking about,
didn't respond, didn't say not,just exit stage, left.
So the general sales manager,you know, man was.
(21:18):
Jason white dude, he lives there.
He's like so what can you do?
I said I can sell them.
Do that now anyway.
So he and I had a conversationfor about 20 minutes and I say
I'm gonna, just, we're gonna getthis out of the way.
Now I said I got multiplefelonies dating from 1993 up
until 2001 or two.
(21:41):
You know he was like okay, andhe was like, well, what about
these cars?
So when he said that I'm like,okay, let's talk.
And so we talked and at thetime, you know, I got a 30, um,
got my droolp on, I got Dressdown my back.
You know I probably hadn'tshaved in about three months and
(22:02):
he was like I do, finishedtalking, he was like you know, I
don't even know why I'm doingthis.
He said but training startsMonday at nine AM.
He said we, uh, we're going tohave uh 30 guys in a training
class.
We're only hiring 10.
Um, and just cause you're intraining, it doesn't mean you're
hired.
I said, okay, cool.
(22:23):
So training was a two week thing.
Three days in the training, uh,so Mike Fruitt, and who was it?
Kevin Pruitt, mike's oldest son.
They were kind of watchingtrain.
And three days in the trainingthey called me out of training.
So I'm thinking about, oh, Ishould, because when I showed up
Monday first of all I showed up, they didn't recognize.
(22:45):
Because when I left thereFriday I went straight to my
dude, jason Andrews was like Ineed a uh brush fade, you know.
He was like you cut your hair.
So I'm like, yeah, no.
So he uh cut my hair, shavedeverything I had to go find, I
had to go buy some button-upshirts and ties because I didn't
even own it, you know.
(23:06):
So I uh can't have money thatain't recognized.
So this three days in thetraining they told me I was
training and uh, me and MikeFruitt talk me and the general
sales manager talk.
They said, all right, we'reabout to put you on the floor.
Remie (23:21):
Three days in Three days in.
Sullivan (23:25):
That was uh, that was as like you start Monday, you
know so and I'm okay.
So Monday I was an employeeApril 15, 2013.
And I uh like okay, so fromApril 15 to April 30, so a car,
(23:45):
but it was so easy.
Remie (23:48):
I'm sorry that's a heck of a streak man Cause I didn't
know that you had just startedin 2013.
When I met you, it was 2018 andyou was pretty uh pretty high
up man.
You was a big dog in five years, man.
Sullivan (24:04):
Like I don't know what I'm saying.
Like 2013, the whole year,2013,.
Like may hit, may.
I sell like 25 cars.
Everybody looking at it likeI'm crazy, like what, what is
you doing?
That nobody else is doing, youknow, but what I was doing was
what I always did.
I was marketing myself as abusiness within the business,
(24:27):
you know, and so like.
And then just meeting people onthe line.
Everybody I met talked to whereI live and I sold cars.
I'm trying to sell a car.
It doesn't matter where.
I was that acne in line.
So at the end of the end of theyear, like I was salesman of
the year, I'd only been theresince April.
That's no.
(24:49):
And so start off the new year,march come, I come to work one
day.
Kevin Porta, shake my hand.
He was like I just want to sayI want to thank you for working
here.
He's that other.
He probably the most naturalsales person.
I've ever met and I'm like, okay, well, I thought I was gonna
(25:10):
find out, I'm gonna find out,it's a dealership, oh yeah, so
that they had to be out of thedealership by five o'clock
Friday.
So Saturday morning, joey Wong,great legs he bought, he comes
in, he's the interim owner ofthe dealership, you know, and
there he's basically trying toshow Honda that I can run this
(25:34):
dealership like I need to be ran, so they would give it to me
and give him the opportunity tofind it.
You know, and I was going toactually leave, you know,
because I'm listening to otherpeople tell me that when a new
owner come in, they fireeverybody bringing their own
people, is that not?
But you know, but I, you know,I enjoy kind of talking to me
personally because, you know, Ikeep it, that people at arms,
(25:58):
you know, especially ownership,uh, manager and stuff above.
I don't, you know, just havelike, yes, I'm not built that
way.
So he came and talked to me andyeah, and I told him.
He asked me what I wanted to do.
I told him what I wanted to do,which was run the special
finance department.
(26:18):
You know, the restructure,rebuild it, make it in some way
profitable.
And he said give me six monthsand we'll evaluate it.
See how you do from there.
I said, okay, cool, and thatwas 2014, march.
I think not.
I was.
Was it March?
No, it might have been.
Debbie (26:38):
Yeah, it was.
Sullivan (26:39):
March 2014.
Um, and him and my generalmanager came to me June of 14.
And actually I still want to dothat.
And they said, well, it's aposition open to be a assistant.
And it was like you'd be takinga pay cut because right now I'm
making a hundred grand a yearas a salesperson.
It was like you'd be makinglike 50 to 60 on it, like that's
(27:02):
cool.
And they look at me like ohcrazy, because they thought that
was going to churn me, you know, because they wanted to keep me
on the sales floor.
And I said, no, that's cool,cause I want, cause, no matter
what, you cannot take awayknowledge, and that's what
people don't understand whenthey get in different positions,
like sometimes you, you got totake that pay cut to get the
(27:23):
information, because I canalways sell cars.
I can always go back to that.
Remie (27:28):
You know you, you briefly told me this about this
situation right here, uh gettinginto management, and I kind of
forgot about it, man.
But I know that when I was uhdoing trucking and I came back
as a manager, it was a huge paycut, man, and I was just like,
no, that's cool, Cause I wasthinking so far past it and they
(27:50):
was looking the same way.
Sullivan (27:53):
Like you know, cause the thing is, you know, you, you
got to have your plan in handand my boss that was in, uh, you
know, special finance orsubprime.
Special finance and subprimebasically is getting people with
bad credit vehicles, you know.
So, uh, you know, I was inspecial finance maybe two weeks
(28:15):
and this dude didn't know,calling no show for like seven
days, you know, and I didn'teven know what I was doing yet
and they, you know, he came backand he got to keep his job and
I was disturbed.
I'm like, how does it do no car,no show for seven days and get
to keep his job?
So, and that was in in july of14.
(28:37):
So in October of 14 he didanother no car, no show for like
10 days.
You know, he had his own issues, whatever they may have been,
but the thing was when he no car, no show for them 10 days, the
department didn't fall off.
There was no fall off, therewas no drop.
(28:58):
You know, and that's after that.
That's when I went to ownershipand management hey, hey, mayor,
for 10 days.
One.
He shouldn't be paid for what Idid for the last 10 days to.
I need to be making what hemaking because there was no fall
off.
And what they did, theyswitched my pay plan to his play
pan and I was October of 15 andof 14 in March of 15.
(29:22):
I went to Arizona for a week tofind that school and that's when
I really learned what I didn'tknow, because you don't know
what you don't know sometimesand when the problem with being
trained by somebody else is, allyou're learning is their
mistakes and their shortcuts andwhat they're not doing right,
you know.
So when I came back, I had awhole new outlook and I was
(29:44):
doing whole different thingsMark and him bringing people in.
So they made me director ofsubprime, which made me his boss
, and he pretty much quit rightafter that.
You know and I was July of 15,so I've been in this position,
been in this department, oneyear before I became a director
(30:05):
of the whole department.
Remie (30:10):
So now, fast forward, here we are.
That was 14, so now, man,that's almost 10 years later,
and you, the GSM.
Yeah, that man, congratulations, thanks, and and not not just
to be in the GSM, man, becausethat's really not the Everything
(30:35):
you know, like I ride aroundand see your face on billboards,
bro, that's.
I hear you on the radio.
Yeah, that's, that's dope.
This ain't just like all thenews people in the neighborhood.
Let me, you know, get my shoutout, like, like just to ride
around.
I mean I hate making a wrapball race and To me it's more
(30:57):
than race because I know thatyou know serve time.
You're a black man and youain't in your 60s and 70s, you
know so.
So, to ride around and seesomebody like that and be able
to relate so much.
And I see your face on abillboard, I hear you on the
radio and I know that I Know theamount of respect you got.
(31:17):
You know when, yeah, like kindof like what your homeboys are
like when people buy a car, theyknow that it's some sort of
safety there.
Like I'm about to go up thereand I mean, shoot, like I said,
you got me in the car game so Idon't work there a few
dealerships.
I know that they sell a carthat they know is a limit.
They'd like fucking he get itpast the curb as he is.
(31:38):
Yeah.
Sullivan (31:40):
I mean, that's the thing, like that.
That's kind of what I changedthere and Like in great late.
To this day they pridethemselves on the fact that you
know they don't sell bullshit.
You know I'm saying because Ileft great late for two and a
half years and I found out, likeit quickly.
Other dealerships don't havethat same mentality, you know.
(32:01):
Hey, they just whatever and see, part of my problem was most of
the people that buy cars ormeet know me personally.
You know that I bring into thedealership.
I can't put my name on thatright, you know, and I believe
in accountability and you knowI'm saying your name meaning
something.
You know, with my name being onthe radio or billboards all
(32:23):
over the city or whatever.
You know I'm saying I like Idon't need anybody saying oh
he's, he didn't see that hetries.
You know I said he sold me thisbullshit.
You know I said nah, you know,so it's like.
So I'm gonna, I'm gonna protectmy name.
Yeah, you know I have a lot ofcats.
(32:43):
You know they, they, they don't.
You know saying like you knowand yeah, just not even like,
just to, you know, go back tothe whole prison situation.
Like I used to.
I used to.
I told somebody one time I said, if you want to know that what
kind of man you are, go toprison.
(33:03):
And I said I ain't talkingabout as far as fighting or none
like that, just your characterand what you're made out of.
I Said prison will show you.
I Said it will show you whatyou're built with your made out
of.
I said because I found out veryquickly People that I thought
was made of some stern stuff,what made a shit, and guys that
(33:26):
I thought was weak or soft orwhatever they they they was,
they was throwing, they was theywas made out of some girl girl
things.
You know.
I said so.
You know the same thing with asyou go through life.
You know your character Isalways in question.
You know, as a man, you know inevery aspect of what you do, you
(33:49):
know.
And so, going back to thedealership, you know I'm going
to always take care of mycustomer first and sometimes
it's not in my best businessinterest to take care of my
customer.
You know which?
I bumped heads with people forthat.
Oh, I have to look at thesepeople every desk, that in the
(34:11):
street, in the bar and the club.
You know, and that's my name,and I only take one or two
people to start talking aboutyou with how you ain't shit and
how you did a Burt.
Oh yeah, bad reviews, man,people, be so quick to you,
leave a bad review with a goodreview.
Remie (34:24):
Man.
You got a drag day ass over tothe keyboard, but yeah, so it
was.
It wasn't good business senseon the short end, but in a
bigger picture.
You know, yeah, those thestories that really bring in
more people when they black man,this fell through or this
wasn't right, but this how theymade it right, you know, so you
(34:47):
can, you could trust them, evenif it do turn out to be a little
issue.
Like they gonna make it right,yeah, yeah.
Sullivan (34:53):
You know that, that that long term, you know that
like kind of really don't.
You know that like kind ofreally don't.
You know, realize how much theyname and a character means
something to usually in a 30s,late 30s or 40s, like, yeah, I
don't, like I gotta do right now.
(35:15):
Did like a nine, nine, you know.
Um, you got his own business.
Now he's doing his thing, youknow, but the part part about it
is he was robbing everybodyback in the day.
He was known as a scammers, assdude does that other.
So I don't know by one dobusiness with you because they
don't trust him because of that.
Yeah, you know, even though hegot legal business down, got the
(35:40):
grant money, got all that money, everything doing everything
right in his business, actuallya good business, you know.
But what he was doing in his20s still fall into this day,
which is the same thing whenyou're trying to get a real job,
you know, and you got themfelonies Decisions you make when
you 18 and 19 Be on your ass,or you 24 when you 45.
(36:02):
Yeah, which you know.
I think it's funny now because,you know, once my name got out
there in the car business, youknow, I had companies reaching
out to me left and right likethat, even the background check,
like I don't care about that.
This is another.
These are the same companiesthat I, you know, interview with
where the first thing they wantto know was about the fella.
(36:26):
I had one.
I had one lady.
I told her flat.
I said I interviewed with youback in 2013.
She's like really, who'd youinterview with?
I said you.
And she's like seriously.
I said yeah.
I said you told me you can hireme because of my felon.
You said I have more than Ihave, multiple felonies, so you
can hire me, you know.
(36:50):
She's like there's no way Ipassed up on hiring you.
I said yeah, you did, you know,and you know.
And she was.
She's like oh wow, you know, Isaid, but you know, I understand
.
I said I said go back to thatthing.
Like people believe what theyput in the paper.
They tell you on the paper, akilo was two million dollars in
stream value.
You believe that somebody canmake two million dollars off a
(37:12):
kilo of cocaine.
I said to this day I ain't seenthat street that you can get
that value on.
But that's, that's what theyput in the paper.
Remie (37:27):
And I still got them same felonies.
So good day, yeah they wentnowhere.
Sullivan (37:32):
You know that's right.
I mean, I went nowhere.
I gotta stop you.
I started the whole process ofgetting a pardon Because you
know they got a new program.
I don't even know if you knewabout it.
They got that program with uhGovernor.
Uh, what's the governor doing?
Hey, man, you about to exposeme.
Remie (37:50):
I don't know, governor, still the wine.
Yeah, so the governor and Ohio.
Sullivan (37:54):
State and after you got a program when you can get
your record either expunged oryou can get a uh, you can get a
pardon or whatever, and it's agood thing to do or whatever,
and it's not a horror process.
And I actually started theprocess of going through it, got
all my stuff together,everything was ready to send
(38:16):
everything in, and COVID hit andI don't know what I did with
all that paperwork because Imoved.
I moved also so when I sold myhouse and I moved, so when I'm
so, put all my stuff and so Idon't remember what I did with
that paperwork.
I never sent it in, you know,but at this point I honestly
don't care if it's a partner ornot.
(38:37):
You said, that's what theuniversity hacker is the
university at Akron, ohio Stateand uh, governor Mike DeWine,
I'm gonna have to look into that.
I know a few people that's theone through their program and
got their part, and it's noteven a long process.
Remie (38:55):
I have to look into that man because I would like that.
I would.
Sullivan (39:02):
But, but before I go any, further, and I thought
about doing it for the simplefact that I wanted to hold a
firearm, the only reason Ithought about doing it.
Remie (39:14):
Well, how about that?
I like a lot.
That was the reason I wanted todo it too, but anyway, I wanted
to stop you down.
I wanted to stop you, man,because I wanted to thank you.
You know, I wanted to thank youbecause, um, I didn't know all
this stuff, you know.
But it's like the more you talk,the more I keep hearing my own
(39:34):
story, and that's the exactreason why I'm doing this
podcast in the first place.
Is that so Either people thatdon't know anything about what
the experience is can kind ofrelate to it and see that you
know, it ain't all what you hearin the paper?
Yeah, and then also for peoplethat's going through it
themselves, because a lot ofpeople won't even try to take
(39:56):
that chance of going to get ajob because all they hear like
all the system Tell us, is yougonna have to tell them about
them felonies, you gonna have to.
It's gonna be hard.
You ain't gonna be able to getno house, so you gonna have to
try to find some girl to got ahouse, move up in there with her
, have her take care, likethat's.
They'll be like why?
Why would I even go?
Try to get a job I don't wantto talk about that shit you know
(40:17):
.
Sullivan (40:17):
But you know what, Like, they told me all that when
I got out, man, I stayed withmy mom.
When I first got, I stayed withmy mom for two weeks, like the
only time I said like I hadn'tstayed with my mom so I was 17.
She put me out when I was 17years old.
I uh, I would tell you thestory real quick, how I got put
out the house.
I was still a senior at boththe high school.
I came home one day this wasdecember of 1991 came home.
(40:44):
So you know my mom, sheprobably knows this person.
I'm gonna be honest.
But I came home and I came inthe house she said I'm a
customer.
Hey, my, you know she's allright.
I go upstairs, I get my room,I'm going my room.
It's like 30 grand bunch ofdope, two guns sitting on the
(41:07):
bed.
I had this stuff here.
My mom probably put two hadthis stuff here so well up in,
like the I had a.
I had made a hollowed out areaat the top of the back of my
closet, so that means she didn'tgot on the chair and all kinds
of stuff to figure out what upwhere some might be in this room
.
You know so it's sitting on thebed.
(41:29):
I'm just looking at like dang, Iturn around to go baby down
stairs.
She was right behind I ain'there, I ain't in here, come
upstairs.
She was like you, you got to go.
You got, you got my say I, youknow.
I was like, okay, you know, andI respected it, you know.
So I just, you know, got youknow.
(41:51):
At at that time I was a seniorand I was barely even going to
school.
I was going to school probablytwo days a week, if that, and I
don't even know why I was goingthat much.
I wasn't even interested in it.
I don't mind, my mind was gone.
But I ended up, you know,leaving.
I had some chick give me a roomat extended stay and I stayed
(42:15):
at extended stay for about threeweeks and then, um, I ended up
getting kicked out of booktoolwhat a month or two later For
something I did.
But I had already had 23Credits so they said I could
give my diploma at the end ofthe year anyway.
So I just went, uh, I went downAtlanta.
(42:35):
I didn't know anybody inAtlanta, I just went down
Atlanta.
I stayed in Atlanta and I cameback up here to visit in July
and my mom's, like you, got ascholarship to rice day
university in Dayton I'm likescholarship, I think.
So I'm a scholarship paper andkind of find out her and what.
My English teacher filled it upand you know my GPA was trash
(42:58):
because I didn't do homework butmy test scores were ridiculous,
so you know, and I had a realhigh score on ACT so they gave
me a scholarship.
So I ended up going down therefor a year but I wasn't
interested in college at thatpoint.
That ship is sale to me.
But yeah, and all of this Ijust in hindsight, you know all
(43:20):
of this go back to the fact thatI did not have a positive male
figure in my life.
I would say definitely goinginto the from the eighth to the
ninth grade, because if I did, Iprobably never won, would have
never been able to choose.
Certain decisions that I madewould have never got made, you
(43:41):
know.
Remie (43:42):
I would say that's why I wanted to thank you is because
from the first day I met you itwas like I mean, so my dad is
around, but you know my dad wentto the military.
That's a whole different route.
Besides my dad, I don't know nosuccessful black man from where
I'm from.
Ain't no successful black manthat ever even seen the corner
(44:04):
of Madison and Peckham?
That?
Debbie (44:06):
I know of you, know Let alone.
Remie (44:09):
I know what's going on around there, you know.
So, from the day I met you,it's been like, you know, you've
been somebody I look up to andI strongly believe in mentorship
.
You know, it ain't just like onthe job, training, learning
from that one dude.
It's like, you know, here'ssomebody who's been in my
situation, who's worked theirway out of it, got out the mud,
(44:33):
and who's found real success,and so I really genuinely, you
know, appreciate that.
And then even now, like yearslater, for me to be like, hey,
man, would you do this interview?
And he was like, yeah, sure man, what's huh?
You know, like it ain't evenstop, you know, and I'm still I
mean get more so and I try to dothe best I can to repay you by
(45:00):
mentoring somebody else.
Pass it along.
Sullivan (45:02):
Yeah, you know because I mean gotta pay it for you got
to.
Remie (45:06):
Yeah, it's too many people.
I know Every job I've gotten,whether it was in trucking,
whether it was in selling cars.
I sold solar door to door, foryou know solar houses for a
minute as a side gig, you know,and I always said the same thing
whenever people ask about me.
People I knew that, knew whereI came from and I was like, if
(45:27):
you got a hustlers mentality,you can sell anything, you could
do any job.
Yeah, you know, in trucking I'malways like trying to get you
know an extra, this, gettingextra.
That rebels with this person.
You know, if I work hard andmanagement see that I don't want
management to say, hey, you'resuch a good trucker that I want
to give you this opportunity asa trucker.
(45:48):
I want management to be like,hey, you're such a good trucker
that I want to give youopportunity.
Management, you know like yeah,yeah.
So I'm always telling peoplelike that, all you got to have,
like it's not that impossible.
You already got a hustlersmentality and, like I said,
people get so caught up in thewhole man I can't do that
Because the system and told themthat, that they don't go out to
(46:11):
the truck.
The system tell you get a job atWalmart, you can get job at the
gas station, maybe the factory.
If you know somebody they canget you in, but they don't buy a
.
Go ahead and try selling cars.
It's hustling.
You already know everybody inthe city from selling dope or
doing whatever you was doing.
You know like hit them up.
Sullivan (46:31):
Everybody needed a car you know, and then you got to
add been a social media man.
This is, this is you got yourown marketing platform that you
ain't got to pay for.
Remie (46:39):
Yeah, especially people that already got.
Like you know, 10,000 friends Ihad to get from from the bottom
man.
I had like 100 friends.
But anyway yeah like I justwanted people to know, like you
already got what it take.
And if you cut that mentalityof going and like groveling and
(46:59):
begging for a job, oh pleasehire me.
Think you got to say everythingthe right way, like I didn't
even know all that stuff aboutyou.
But I promise you I did thesame stuff going into a job
interview, like hey, before weeven sit down, like while we
still standing, and just shookhands, let me tell you about
these felonies I got.
Sullivan (47:18):
Yeah, because at this point I let that we ain't even
going out to waste the other'stime.
Yeah.
Remie (47:24):
And you know, it's your time.
I want you to waste my time andif we can't get past this, we
can just go ahead and shakehands again and I walk out free
by the water, you know.
But it caught them so off guardbecause they feel like they're
in control when you start aninterview, because everybody
just wants to come in and slidethe resume across and sit
quietly with the back stiff andsay, please hire me.
(47:46):
But when you go in and you takecontrol like that, you throw
them off.
They like, oh shit, tell meabout it.
Sullivan (47:51):
You know yeah, I'm about to tell you my life.
This is probably the worstinterview I've ever had.
It was, what was it?
Walmart?
This is how I got to join, soI'm going to walk my interview.
We sit there and the guy isinterviewing me.
I'm talking about it, it's justgoing back.
Debbie (48:12):
I was in the middle of the.
I said, listen, man.
Sullivan (48:14):
I said obviously you don't want to hire me.
Debbie (48:17):
That's obvious in the latest interview is going and I
said honestly I don't even wantto work here.
Sullivan (48:21):
So let me get a patch away.
And I just walked out.
I said why am I taking thiskind of flag to work at Walmart
for $6?
Remie (48:31):
And I get the fuck out of here, man.
Yeah, so in response to that,I'm going to tell you a story.
I don't know if you may or maynot know it.
I ain't going to put my name init, but the first job I got at
a car dealership I was a salesassistant.
They wouldn't make me a salesperson because of course I had
(48:53):
no experience, which that aloneI thought was okay valid, and of
course I had just got out ofprison two weeks prior.
So there was like be this salesassistant and you know, three
months, if you do good, you gotit.
I was like cool, well, in threemonths I had people coming in
there asking for me by name.
(49:14):
I didn't make this person'sthat I was.
I was their assistant.
I made their reviews better,pretty much.
I was selling cars on my own bythree months.
And it was a situation wheresome people it was some Indian
dudes, you know how the Indiandudes be they came in and they
(49:35):
wanted to buy a car and I stayedhere two hours after dealership
closed to get that sale man andthe person who I was supposed
to be assistant was not there.
They hadn't been there sincethat afternoon and I got that
sale man.
And when I got my paycheck, Ihad that same little $500 salary
paycheck and I was like, hey, Ineed paid for these cars that I
(50:00):
sold where this person wasn'tthere.
And they were like oh, that'snot your pay plan.
And I was like so you know, it'sbeen three months, so let's
have that, let's have that,let's sit down right now and
talk about it.
And they were like, well, Idon't, I don't really see it,
man, give me another six months.
(50:20):
And I stood up and I was like,hey, listen, man, I don't know
exactly what you make, but I'veheard rumors and I want you to
come to work for six months andbust your ass unless somebody
else take your paycheck.
If you can do that, I'll agreeto it.
And he looked at me like I wascrazy, like who the fuck are you
(50:41):
to talk to me like this?
Sullivan (50:42):
Yeah, and so that's how you got to be, though you
have to.
Remie (50:47):
Yeah, he kind of just sat there and looked at me sideways
and I was like I'm going to goback to my desk.
You can take this as my twoweek notice and thank you for
the opportunity.
And I should have said I walkedout and went back to my desk
and I sent the email to followup, like just so you know this
is my official two week notice.
Yeah, and little did they know,man, like I had turned down two
(51:12):
jobs to come near and I knew Iwas going to make less but I
thought it was a betteropportunity and I had to.
You know I was suspicious thatI suspected that they didn't
want to because of my record.
They figured they could likestring me along with that
opportunity, like you know, tocarry it in front of the donkey.
But yeah, I called that otherplace back.
(51:33):
Man had the job in one week.
You know I went down, I wentdown to orientation on my day
off, man, and that was in.
I don't know.
I got out in May, so that wasin like July, right before my
birthday, and that year I madelike 70 grand from July to the
(51:54):
end of the year.
I was like what the fuck was Iwaiting with them for?
Sullivan (51:59):
One of the saddest things is your current employer
will be the last person thatwant to pay you what you should
be paying.
That's just what I work.
I've seen that Like when I left.
One of the reasons I left whereI was at when I left which is
the same employer that told youyou know it just was stringing
you along.
One of the reasons I left wasbecause I'm I've seen, I've seen
(52:24):
people get hired making 1560grand more than me that he would
come closer to what I could do.
But basically because I grew upin that dealership.
They felt like, oh, we ain'tgot to pay him, that we don't
need more nowhere.
So when I put in my notice theywas in complete disbelief and
shock and they wanted to knowwhy.
And I explained to them.
I said I'm never in contentionfor growth.
(52:46):
I said you want to keep mewhere I'm at because of how much
money I make you?
I said, but that doesn'tbenefit me.
I said I have three dealershipsoffer me a job right now as a
general sales manager and youdon't even have a general sales
manager.
You won't even consider me forthe job.
You know, and he took it.
(53:08):
As you know, I don't take well,to threats to, I say, hey, I'm
not threatening you.
I said I'm taking a job.
I said I'm just telling you whyI'm leaving.
You know, I said because Ithink that's fair, because I
grew up here and you guys wereInstrumental in my growth
process, so I'm not, you know, acold medic against you.
(53:29):
I understand your thoughtprocess too.
You know.
I said I'm just telling you,like, this is why I'm leaving,
you know, and the whole two anda half years I wasn't there,
they spent trying to get me backand and you know, you know, you
know I ended up coming back,but it was on my own terms.
(53:51):
See, that that's the key.
Like, and I tell people all thetime you want to get to a point
where you are like at a pointwhere that they don't know what
to do without you being there.
You know that, you know.
You know, yeah, you can replaceme, but you can't replace me
(54:17):
For sure.
You know that's how you got tobe by.
You know you can replace theposition, but you can't replace
me.
Remie (54:25):
You know it's like in any relationship, in any type of
relationship, whether it'sprofessional or personal,
romantic, anything like that.
I always believed in that kindof old adage like the best
revenge and success.
Oh yeah, because I'm not gonnaact crazy and act out and look
like the bad person and give youa reason to say that's why I
(54:48):
ain't give the opportunity orthat's why I do this.
Yeah, I'm just like you know.
Okay, well, I'm gonna take thisleft right here and then I'm
gonna let you almost stay, justclose enough to let you watch me
succeed and like, damn, why thefuck we let take.
Sullivan (55:03):
Exactly, and that's what happened.
You know, I feel like, if Iwanted, why don't you let him
get away?
Remie (55:08):
I feel like if more people do that, instead of
coming in like groveling forthese jobs, like I said, like I
Kept it real, like when I got toI got down here to Columbus and
I did interview, all myinterviews was like the generous
manager GSM.
You know, I'm like, I Just likeI'm already hungry and I'm
(55:31):
gonna succeed without you.
I just need you To see it andgive me an opportunity to invest
in me so I can make you shine,cuz I'm gonna shine.
You know, yeah, already I tellpeople at a time that my
favorite saying is by Plato.
It says when people speak ill ofyou, you got to live so that
nobody believe it.
I'm already living that way.
(55:51):
There's nothing I'm gonna do tolet anything, any blemish fall
on my name.
All you got to do is let me dowhat I'm doing and take credit
for it.
You know, a dude was sittinghere looking at me like I never
had nobody give me this type ofResponse to why should I hire
you?
So I got another question likeso besides, besides cars, have
(56:17):
you had any other successfulventures?
Or like attempts at other stuff?
Sullivan (56:23):
Um, I had a landscaping business from before
I got into the car business andit was successful, but I just
hated landscaping.
Remie (56:34):
Gotcha, I mean sometimes.
I try what you know work andthen figure out.
Sullivan (56:43):
Not, it's a, and it was a couple business ventures I
went into because I was tryingto find my way, like because I
was thinking entrepreneurial,you know, and I was trying to
find my way and what I mightlike or whatever, and it was not
landscaping.
I can tell you that, cuz I wasthinking in terms of what's
(57:07):
lucrative and I know landscaping, review the landscaper, you
make money, but you, you work alot and you work hard.
Yeah, I was like not the samefor me, you know all right.
Remie (57:20):
So now, on that, you got what you.
You know where you are now.
Actually, before you know,before I ask this question
because this is this gonna be,you know, like kind of the
wrap-up question I know that sofar we've all we only talked
about like success in businessand you know stuff like that.
(57:41):
But you're married, you gotchildren.
Everybody's doing it, you knowgreat, and you do a lot for them
.
Communities, like I always seeyou on Facebook doing some give
back stuff for kids in schoolFootball teams, whatever it is
(58:02):
you know.
So now that I've highlightedthat, because that's that's huge
, you know a lot of people thatmake it don't give back, lot of
people that make it don't comeback.
But now that I said that, like,what are you most proud of
since you've fully embodied thischange?
Sullivan (58:24):
Like first off, let's start here.
I don't even look at, like,some of the stuff I'm doing
community as given back.
You know, it's just somethingthat I'm doing Like, hey, let's
do a book giveaway or let's do abook bag giveaway, something
like that.
It's just that, something thatneeds doing and I'm in a
(58:45):
position where I can facilitatethat financially, financially
and, you know, physicallyfacilitate that, whereas before
I might not have been in thatposition Financially, do it, I
can physically be there and Ican get on the radio and put the
(59:07):
word out, you know.
So I have platforms that Ididn't have access to before and
since I have access to thoseplatforms, I'm just taking
advantage of Gotcha, you know,and I mean, because this is
stuff I would have done, youknow, even when I was, I was
(59:29):
selling dope, you know, I justdidn't have access to the
platforms, you know, and Ididn't want Any unneeded
attention, you know, I'm still,like you know, I'm still, like
you know, kind of uncomfortablewith attention at times and
(59:53):
uncomfortable with, like youknow, compliments.
I've always been uncomfortablewith compliments, receiving
gifts, you know, stuff like that.
I've never been reallycomfortable with those type of
things.
Remie (01:00:09):
You know.
So what are you most proud of?
Sullivan (01:00:13):
Proud of I mean I mean probably my kids.
Remie (01:00:21):
I would say yeah, my wife , what you do.
Sullivan (01:00:29):
You know, when she took the job at the company
she's at now, she's been there20 years, I think.
But when she first got that jobshe was making, I think, eight,
nine thousand hours, you know,and right now, you know, she's
making a pretty nice paycheck.
You know, uh, my children, uh,you know, they focused, they've
(01:00:55):
been graduated.
They two of them have startedfamilies.
One has her own business.
That is actually verysuccessful.
I got you know two in collegethat should be graduating it
within the next year and myyoungest she's, uh, she's Going
to college in about a yearShe'll be a senior.
(01:01:16):
She's been carrying a 4.6 gpathrough act early college and
you know, all her classes arecollege classes, so she's not
doing high school work and shegoes to act renew for high
school.
So you know, uh, their success,they're they're, you know,
(01:01:37):
drive, their focus, that thoseare things that you know I'm
proud of because I didn't wantthem doing any of what I did.
Remie (01:01:47):
You know that right there is, uh Like a full embodiment
of the of the whole title of mypodcast.
Like that's what I'm doing thisfor, like from lockdown to
legacy.
Like that's what you're proudof, this, your legacy, your kids
, what they're doing, whatthey're not doing.
Sullivan (01:02:06):
Because here I feel like, wait, let's say boys born
to me, I I think that periodbetween age 16 to 25 man tactic.
If you can make it out of thatperiod without catching a case
(01:02:28):
getting killed, you know, uh,you might be okay.
Remie (01:02:37):
You know other places they don't think about that.
Yeah, that's, that's a blackthing, man, I don't know, I
don't know too many uh, 16 yearolds in the suburbs will say,
man, if I could just make itthese next five years, uh, I'm
gonna be all right If I don'tdie or go to prison in the next
(01:02:59):
five years.
Um, yeah, I don't think they dothat everywhere else.
Sullivan (01:03:04):
Yeah, because around 25 is when common sense start
kicking in and you start makingdecisions like I probably don't
need to be going there, likeBecause right now you and I both
know which, I think, one reasonwe need to be at the after
hours after the bar.
Remie (01:03:25):
Right right.
I think 25 is when you startactually using wisdom instead of
just you know, knowledge orwhat people tell you, because
when people tell you stuff, youkind of want to Rebelli against
it because you want to be likean alpha.
You know, I don't want to dowhat you say, I'm an alpha, I
could do my own thing.
I think at 25 you startrealizing like okay, I may not
(01:03:49):
have been down this road, but hehas and he's looking pretty
fucked up, yeah because I, um,shit, what was it?
Sullivan (01:04:01):
Uh, I think round 25, because I I had my, um, Nah,
2000, so 26 is when I heard Ihad my first child.
You know, by the end of 26,.
You know, all my dudes havemultiple kids.
You know, I had my first childat 26, like if a chick told me
(01:04:22):
she had kids, I just kept itmoving, I didn't want to have
any.
So, being that, that being mymental mentality, in my
situation, you know, like Ithought different.
I didn't, I didn't feel like Ihad a reason to worry about this
happen to have, because I hadnobody to take care of, I had
nobody to uh, you know that Iwas responsible for other than
(01:04:46):
me.
So, when you know, at 23, youknow, hey man, let's, uh, they
having, uh, they have somethingto after hours.
Tonight it's three in themorning, let's, let's slide over
to the after all, right, yeah,let's roll Now.
At 27, 30, hey man, let's goover to the after hour.
(01:05:10):
Like, uh, I think I ain't goingto know after hour.
At, uh, you know, three in themorning, I got something to do.
Remie (01:05:20):
That's one thing.
Uh, uh.
I marvel at man.
I start my job at 3 30 am and Iwork until 3 30 pm, so Four
days a week and for them 12hours.
Man, from the wee hours in themorning to, you know, leading
into the afternoon, I see somany people I ain't never seen.
(01:05:41):
I didn't even know this manypeople existed at 3, 30, 4, 30,
5, 30 am that ain't got nowhereto be.
They ain't got nowhere to be.
No, no, I ain't saying theyexist.
I'm saying I never knew theyexisted.
All these people that havenowhere to be At 4, 30 am.
Sullivan (01:05:59):
That's what I'm telling you.
Yeah, man.
Remie (01:06:01):
That was me.
Why are you outside?
Sullivan (01:06:06):
Go to the bar man, you go to the after hours.
You didn't hook up with nothingbecause that was your main
mission from going to the afterhours, because you ain't hooked
up with nothing at the bar.
So now you're going to theafter hours See if you can hook
up with something.
Didn't hook up with that at theafter hours.
Now it's 4 30 now you atpennies.
Remie (01:06:25):
Try to see if you can slide somebody else's booth.
Sullivan (01:06:29):
He's mad at that.
That was the life man.
Like you think back on thatlike what the hell's I doing?
Remie (01:06:36):
Yeah, man, all right.
So I got one more question.
It's the.
I'm gonna wrap it up, man, wecan still kick it, but I'm gonna
wrap it up.
Yeah, that's cool.
Um, my last question is, man,in a Kind of short and sweet
what would be your advice tosomebody else that's trying to
start that journey of, uh, likechange and rebuild their life,
(01:06:56):
transformation type stuff?
Sullivan (01:07:00):
um, first thing and it's I know it's it sound easy,
but it's it's not first thing isfigure out what you want to do.
That's, that's first andforemost.
Figure out what you want to do.
Second, once you know youfigure out what you want to do,
(01:07:20):
be the best that you know.
And and education is, is kingand paramount.
And when I say education, Idon't mean like education, like
formal education, like that, Ijust just knowledge of what
you're doing, because that's theonly way you're going to grow,
because that's the only wayyou're going to grow.
And what you want to do andwhat you're trying to do is, if
(01:07:43):
you got knowledge of what you'redoing, you know.
Remie (01:07:52):
I could dig that All right.
So with that man I'ma, i'ma goahead and put a pin in it.
Sullivan (01:07:59):
That's it Okay that was great, cool.
Remie (01:08:03):
Well, thank you very much , sir, for doing this with me.
Sullivan (01:08:06):
Oh man, that's sweet man.
Remie (01:08:09):
I think, uh, I think this is going to be a great episode
and, um, I think that people go,everybody go, you know, get a
lot from it.
Sullivan (01:08:21):
Yeah, I mean, I hope so.
I just you know everybody Idon't know man, I look at some
of these young cats and I evenlook at my own kids, man, like
you know, my daughter told meone day.
She said oh, I hear what you besaying to me, I understand, you
know.
I said I just you know, behaving my own way of thinking.
Debbie (01:08:49):
The lockdown to legacy podcast is proud to be a part of
the bus sprout podcastcommunity network.
Lockdown to legacy is recordedat co-hatch in their lovely
audio file room.
Thanks for your scholarship.
Audio engineering is done byour very own remy jones.
You can reach us with anyfeedback, questions, comments or
share the love by emailingstories at lockdown, the number
(01:09:11):
two legacycom, stories atlockdown to legacycom.
You can reach out there too fora free sticker, and you can
find us on instagram and twitterwith the handle at lockdown to
legacy and on facebook at thelockdown to legacy podcast.
Thanks for listening.
Welcome to Lockdown Alive .
See stories from the inside out.
I'm your host, remy Jones.
Debbie (00:25):
And I'm co-host Debbie Jones.
We are a husband and wife teamhere to bring you the real life
stories, experiences andquestions around the American
criminal justice system.
We do advise discretion withthis podcast.
I think we should put that outthere first and foremost.
We are going to talk aboutexperiences that happen inside
the prison system.
Outside of prison systems.
(00:46):
We will use language that mightbe offensive, but we intend to
keep it real, and if that's notfor you, we totally understand.
So please do what's best foryour listening years.
Remie (01:00):
Our goal of this podcast is to share the inside realities
of the American prison andcriminal justice system, from
precharges all the way to postrelease, from the voices of
those who experienced the firsthand, including me.
Debbie (01:12):
That's right, let's get into it.
Remie (01:15):
Thanks, so for the last few weeks I've been doing this
(01:58):
series called the Summer LegacySeries.
Sullivan (02:02):
Okay.
Remie (02:03):
And so I don't know if you've seen my podcast.
It's called Lockdown to Legacy.
No, that's all right.
What platform are we going to?
It's hosted on Buzzsprout, okay, and it's on all the major
podcast catalogs so you can getit on Google podcasts, apple
(02:24):
podcasts, spotify, iheart radio,all of them, okay.
So lately not lately, for thefirst few months, we basically
just highlighted the experienceof going through the justice
system, the legal system, whatit's like in prison, different
(02:48):
aspects of it and a lot of thehardships, because I feel like
society don't really know whatgoes on behind bars.
Oh, absolutely not.
And then when you get out, it'slike a million obstacles.
Even though you served yourtime, you're still not done.
So, as you say, you're a felon.
(03:09):
You all of a sudden lose a lotof housing opportunities, you
lose a lot of job opportunities.
You lose a lot.
And so I decided, instead offocusing on that for the summer,
I wanted to start highlightingpeople that have been
incarcerated and are doing greatthings.
(03:30):
I know a lot of girls I waslocked up with that release
albums that got communityprograms, that got a great job
and got a family, whatever it is.
So I was like let's focus onthat, let's forget about the
negative aspects for it andlet's show that these are actual
(03:54):
people and people can change.
They are humans and they havegreat stuff going on.
But yeah, I just want to takeaway that whole.
As soon as you say the wordfelon, let me hold my purse
close to mentality.
Sullivan (04:07):
Yeah, clutching the pearls.
Remie (04:13):
Yeah.
So in doing all this, man, Ihad a few guys on already and I
remembered all of a sudden thatyou had told me you've been
incarcerated and I don't reallyknow a lot about it and I don't
know how much you want to tell,so I'm going to leave that up to
you.
Sullivan (04:28):
I don't even talk about it.
Remie (04:30):
You don't talk about it.
Sullivan (04:31):
I mean it's not something I like how do I put it
?
It's not like I'm ashamed of itor something, it's just
something I don't even thinkabout.
That was one of them.
It was a point in time in mylife, you know, when I used to
really actually think about itis when I fill out a job
application and then the firstquestion they asked is they
asked me about it.
Remie (04:50):
Yeah, exactly.
So I mean I wrote down a fewquestions here.
I'm going to ask, and I don'tknow if you can talk about it or
not.
Sullivan (05:02):
My name is Sullivan Rogers and I'm a general sales
manager.
Slash marketing per se, GreatLakes, Honda West in Illyrio
Ohio.
Remie (05:17):
Okay, Okay.
So I guess for the audience man, I'll tell everybody that I
first met Sullivan because hewas a friend of my family and
mostly because I think it'sbecause my family bought cars
from you.
Sullivan (05:35):
No, actually your mom worked with my mom for like 15
years.
Oh, okay, all right, I justknow that you know whenever I
used to call a hospital,whenever I used to call the
hospital, your mom went afterthe phone, but I never actually
met her.
Remie (05:53):
That makes sense.
Okay, see, I ain't know thatman, I just know when I got home
, my mom was like, hey, I needyou to go over here and see
Sullivan, he might be able tohelp you get a job.
So yeah, that's how I first met.
Sullivan was going to apply fora job at a dealership and I
(06:14):
went in there to talk to him andgave me some advice, man, and
then I turned into sort of amentorship relationship and then
a friendship, or at least whatI consider friendship.
I hope it's a friendship.
So, yeah, I don't know yourstory, man, about like
(06:35):
incarceration, how long ago itwas, how long it was for what
you did, I don't know if youwant to talk about that, but the
important part is, yeah, Idon't have a problem talking
about that.
What's that?
Sullivan (06:45):
I don't have a problem talking speaking on that, okay.
So let me see I'm going to go alittle bit.
Before that I came out of BokleHigh School in the early 90s.
I went to college and dated inOhio and a lot of people might
(07:10):
relate to this.
But you ever can see thedirection you're going but you
just don't know what to do tostop it.
That's kind of where I was at.
I was in college but mentally Iwasn't committed to it.
I was just doing something topass the time.
(07:30):
But even in college I kind ofhad a thing going on where we
were at, a group of guysbreaking into dorm rooms,
stealing objects, taking themdown to Cincinnati to the pawn
shop and doing that.
I was more concentrated on thecrying side of things than
actually trying to get a degreeor anything of that nature.
(07:52):
So what I ended up doing aftermy freshman year in college I
didn't go back and the summer inbetween freshman and sophomore
years in college I ended up.
We used to go to thisdealership.
We would go up there stillabout eight, nine cars at a time
(08:13):
, and I ended up still in a carpulled behind the school so I
can switch the plates pull,these pulled up on me and when
that happened I had a gun on me.
So I actually ended up gettingprobation.
(08:34):
And the day I got probation Iwent to court to get probation.
I never even went and seen myprobation officer.
I moved down to Atlanta I wasstill going down to where I was
going to college at Dayton,hanging out whatever Came up
here in June of 94 to just cameto see the family or whatever,
(08:59):
and went up to Kent State to seesome female leaving Kent State,
got pulled over and of course Ihad a warrant for my arrest and
I had a gun in the car.
So I ended up getting asentence, sent me down to the
land capture, which was a prettyfucked up experience, but just
(09:24):
living, quality of life,everything.
But at the end of the day it isprison.
So about a year and a half downthere they offered me probation
.
I had six months left on mysentence.
They brought me back forprobation and it would have been
(09:45):
like two years probation and Iended up turning it down and
said I'll do the rest of my sixmonths because I already knew I
wasn't going to follow the ruleswhen I got out.
And so crazy thing is, while Iwas still in there I didn't know
, I didn't understand that whenI got pulled over with the gun
in the car I still had a chargeout there for that.
(10:07):
So they were planning onmeeting me at the gate on my
release date and making me backto Kent and I had another inmate
who actually explained all ofthis to me.
So I got an attorney and shegot it squared away and got it
in the court before I gotreleased and I got bail for that
(10:27):
charge.
So when I got released I couldbe out.
But I ended up gettingsentenced again.
So I ended up getting outFebruary 27th to 95.
And got out.
We're still really didn't haveany direction.
But I knew I wasn't going backto prison for just dumb shit, do
(10:51):
a ride, and stuff like that.
It was going to be about somemoney being made.
So, and you know, I basicallysold dope from that point on
until 2000, probably 13.
And around 2010, I startedlooking for a job and we talked
about 1995 to 2010, like 15years I was doing you know
(11:15):
whatever.
And then I decided to look fora job.
My kids they wanted to knowwhat I did for a living and
stuff like that.
We had a nice house, we hadcars, everything, and I didn't
want my kids doing what I did.
So you know and the whole youknow.
So that's that you know, and wecould get into the whole job
search thing later.
Oh yeah.
Remie (11:36):
That's one of the questions, for sure, but I just
really wanted to know like Iguess you already answered, I
was going to ask what made youseek out that change.
Sullivan (11:52):
So those are like a series of events that took place
between, I'll say, 2008 or 2007to about 2000 years, so like
20-10,.
(12:12):
I was in my mid-30s so two ofmy dudes caught fake cases and
they were both older than me andboth died, sentenced to like 18
years.
Oh and that's not real.
I don't want to be catching afake case.
But 35, getting 10 years, thatwas one of the high-opening
(12:38):
moments.
My kids, my oldest kids theywere in high school.
I had some in middle school andthey were starting to really
like wonder what I did.
I mean they basically knew, youknow they weren't stupid.
So you know that was a part ofit and you know I had a
(12:59):
situation not to get into theparticulars but I went down
south, you know, got pulledalong the way home a couple
times, searched the car you knowpretty well, you know, and
basically the way it happened, Iknew this was not a coincidence
.
Remie (13:18):
Yeah, I mean, you mentioned that your friends got
to the Feds.
Sullivan (13:20):
Okay, I got to check your stuff, they'll stop.
Remie (13:23):
You mentioned your friends going to the Feds.
Sullivan (13:24):
They're uh they're conviction rate high yeah yeah,
you know the Feds pretty muchwhen they come to get you.
They got all the evidence onright.
It ain't like the police.
They got to build a case.
The Feds already got a case.
Yeah, they built a case twoyears before they picked you up.
Remie (13:44):
All right.
Now I heard you say like, youknow, you didn't have a lot of
direction still, like when yougot out and I can kind of relate
to that man Like because I hada juvie case it was like the
same way.
I ended up getting off betterthan I probably should have and
(14:04):
really ain't learned that.
And I mean, I started doingbetter but I ain't changed what
I was doing already.
So it was just like, basicallyit was like a good cover up.
You know like, oh, I'm doinggood stuff.
But I was going to ask like,did you know, like, where you
wanted to go, like, or where theroad will lead?
Because I'm going to tell you Ididn't.
I had no clue.
Sullivan (14:26):
So it kind of was like this so I got out February 27th
.
My birthday is February 28th,so I got a day before my 21st
birthday and I had the what $76they gave me.
And you know, and that wasabout it.
(14:48):
You know, my mom picked me upfrom Southeast Southeast, I
think an architecturalinstitution and he came back to
the house I took a shower, Ishaved, I was a little bit heat,
and then I sought out a coupleof friends.
(15:09):
I had one friend I was going togo tight with before I left.
We hung out for a couple of daysbut I realized our lives was in
different directions and thedirection he was going I didn't
want to be a part of.
So you know, I kind of like youknow, moved away from them as
far as a friend.
And that's when I like, afterabout a week, I sat down and was
(15:32):
like, okay, I got to put me astructure together, what I need
to do and what I want to do,where I want to go.
I made a conscious decision I'mabout to move to work and I
bought me a $50 dub.
I was on the corner of Madisonand Peckham for the next three
weeks.
I got up to 80.
That's my hood man.
Remie (15:54):
I mean, I'm at, though, like when you decided to change,
like when you got to the pointwhere you're like, all right,
I'm going to get a job, like didyou have a vision of where it
was going to lead to or whereyou were going?
Sullivan (16:04):
to not no, no, no, you know what.
Let me tell you the whole jobsearch thing was like it was
more frustrating for my wifethan for me because by me and me
and our program to hear theword now, early on, like that's
why I like when women get toldknow by me and they're so like
thrown off because they're soused to being just like come at
(16:27):
them all the time but me, andare used to hearing no women
tell them no all the time, youknow.
So you know being told nowasn't a big deal.
So going, you know, job searchand stuff like that, you know I
had already known my head andI'm not taking the job making
sure that I was found.
(16:47):
You know I need to maintain myway of living, so until I was
out I wasn't going to do it.
So you know I.
You know scour, you know, andit always went the same way.
You know there was, you know,smuggers, landau Lakes, at&t.
(17:10):
You know you go in, you fillout the application, you take
the test, they give you a mathtest, english test, a reading
comprehension test and you knowyou take all the three of the
tests and the way it works by.
I will watch the process.
It'd be 200 people trying toget, you know, 30 jobs, all 200
(17:35):
people that go in there and theytake that math test.
After the math test, you downto like 70 people.
After the reading comprehensiontest, you down to like 50
people.
After the computer skills orwhatever else next test, you
down about 15, 20 people.
And of those 15, 20 people, youknow everybody would get hired.
(17:58):
And then they would say to mewell, you got the highest scores
on everything, but you got to.
You want to tell me about thisfelony?
And you know, at the end of theday this was 2010, 2011, 2012,
you asked me about something Idid 15, 16 years ago that I
(18:19):
don't even remember clearly.
You know, and so you know, andthat's how it always went.
So I want you, but higher upsaid no, we can't hire you.
Okay.
So it got to a point like Iwouldn't even tell my wife that
I had a job interview.
You know, I wouldn't tell her,you know.
And so 2013, I enrolled in astark Kent State because, you
(18:49):
know, I was like let me get adegree.
You know I do that, you know,and I liked to write, I like to
read.
So I was like I did somecreative writing classes and
some other stuff and I realized,you know, there was nothing
fulfilling about going to schoolfor me because my academic
(19:10):
level was higher than myprofessor Most of my professors
who were in their 20s, which wasfunny to me.
And you know, I went to whatwas it?
Talking to one of my dudes andhe was like man, why don't you
sell cars?
He was like man, there's manycars you buy and sell on the
(19:32):
street.
Man, everybody know if they geta car from you it's a good car.
He was like your old school andstuff everybody in the city
driving one of your old schoolsbecause they knew that they know
how you take care of your car,so they know they're getting a
good car.
You know, I never looked at itthat way.
So I'm like car sale.
So I thought about it and so Iapplied at several dealerships
(19:54):
within the city and got calledinto a few and one interview was
so wild I think I just walkedout in the middle of the
interview.
Dude was talking so reckless tome.
I said listen, man, I'm a dudewith both of my favorite man.
I'm going to go ahead and getout this interview before
somebody get hurt, you know, andthe sad part about it was it
(20:16):
was a black dude, you know, andI was lying.
So I kind of put it down.
And when I bought my businessand then I was going to route a
one day going past Mike Pruitt,huh, and then I saw that I'm not
hiring signs.
So and at this time I kind ofreset my mind and like I'm about
to go ahead and recommit toeach street this job, shit ain't
working.
(20:37):
But I went ahead and got off,pulled around, walked into the
dealership and those twomanagers there, the general
manager and the general salesmanager and I didn't even know
that that was their titles atthe time and I said, uh, you
guys, uh and uh the generalmanager says to me, and I quote
(20:58):
are they having for detail inthe back, ask for, ask for, uh,
her shall?
And I looked at him and said Iain't watching, no fucking cars.
He just looked at me and wentright off I'm talking about,
didn't respond, didn't say not,just exit stage, left.
So the general sales manager,you know, man was.
(21:18):
Jason white dude, he lives there.
He's like so what can you do?
I said I can sell them.
Do that now anyway.
So he and I had a conversationfor about 20 minutes and I say
I'm gonna, just, we're gonna getthis out of the way.
Now I said I got multiplefelonies dating from 1993 up
until 2001 or two.
(21:41):
You know he was like okay, andhe was like, well, what about
these cars?
So when he said that I'm like,okay, let's talk.
And so we talked and at thetime, you know, I got a 30, um,
got my droolp on, I got Dressdown my back.
You know I probably hadn'tshaved in about three months and
(22:02):
he was like I do, finishedtalking, he was like you know, I
don't even know why I'm doingthis.
He said but training startsMonday at nine AM.
He said we, uh, we're going tohave uh 30 guys in a training
class.
We're only hiring 10.
Um, and just cause you're intraining, it doesn't mean you're
hired.
I said, okay, cool.
(22:23):
So training was a two week thing.
Three days in the training, uh,so Mike Fruitt, and who was it?
Kevin Pruitt, mike's oldest son.
They were kind of watchingtrain.
And three days in the trainingthey called me out of training.
So I'm thinking about, oh, Ishould, because when I showed up
Monday first of all I showed up, they didn't recognize.
(22:45):
Because when I left thereFriday I went straight to my
dude, jason Andrews was like Ineed a uh brush fade, you know.
He was like you cut your hair.
So I'm like, yeah, no.
So he uh cut my hair, shavedeverything I had to go find, I
had to go buy some button-upshirts and ties because I didn't
even own it, you know.
(23:06):
So I uh can't have money thatain't recognized.
So this three days in thetraining they told me I was
training and uh, me and MikeFruitt talk me and the general
sales manager talk.
They said, all right, we'reabout to put you on the floor.
Remie (23:21):
Three days in Three days in.
Sullivan (23:25):
That was uh, that was as like you start Monday, you
know so and I'm okay.
So Monday I was an employeeApril 15, 2013.
And I uh like okay, so fromApril 15 to April 30, so a car,
(23:45):
but it was so easy.
Remie (23:48):
I'm sorry that's a heck of a streak man Cause I didn't
know that you had just startedin 2013.
When I met you, it was 2018 andyou was pretty uh pretty high
up man.
You was a big dog in five years, man.
Sullivan (24:04):
Like I don't know what I'm saying.
Like 2013, the whole year,2013,.
Like may hit, may.
I sell like 25 cars.
Everybody looking at it likeI'm crazy, like what, what is
you doing?
That nobody else is doing, youknow, but what I was doing was
what I always did.
I was marketing myself as abusiness within the business,
(24:27):
you know, and so like.
And then just meeting people onthe line.
Everybody I met talked to whereI live and I sold cars.
I'm trying to sell a car.
It doesn't matter where.
I was that acne in line.
So at the end of the end of theyear, like I was salesman of
the year, I'd only been theresince April.
That's no.
(24:49):
And so start off the new year,march come, I come to work one
day.
Kevin Porta, shake my hand.
He was like I just want to sayI want to thank you for working
here.
He's that other.
He probably the most naturalsales person.
I've ever met and I'm like, okay, well, I thought I was gonna
(25:10):
find out, I'm gonna find out,it's a dealership, oh yeah, so
that they had to be out of thedealership by five o'clock
Friday.
So Saturday morning, joey Wong,great legs he bought, he comes
in, he's the interim owner ofthe dealership, you know, and
there he's basically trying toshow Honda that I can run this
(25:34):
dealership like I need to be ran, so they would give it to me
and give him the opportunity tofind it.
You know, and I was going toactually leave, you know,
because I'm listening to otherpeople tell me that when a new
owner come in, they fireeverybody bringing their own
people, is that not?
But you know, but I, you know,I enjoy kind of talking to me
personally because, you know, Ikeep it, that people at arms,
(25:58):
you know, especially ownership,uh, manager and stuff above.
I don't, you know, just havelike, yes, I'm not built that
way.
So he came and talked to me andyeah, and I told him.
He asked me what I wanted to do.
I told him what I wanted to do,which was run the special
finance department.
(26:18):
You know, the restructure,rebuild it, make it in some way
profitable.
And he said give me six monthsand we'll evaluate it.
See how you do from there.
I said, okay, cool, and thatwas 2014, march.
I think not.
I was.
Was it March?
No, it might have been.
Debbie (26:38):
Yeah, it was.
Sullivan (26:39):
March 2014.
Um, and him and my generalmanager came to me June of 14.
And actually I still want to dothat.
And they said, well, it's aposition open to be a assistant.
And it was like you'd be takinga pay cut because right now I'm
making a hundred grand a yearas a salesperson.
It was like you'd be makinglike 50 to 60 on it, like that's
(27:02):
cool.
And they look at me like ohcrazy, because they thought that
was going to churn me, you know, because they wanted to keep me
on the sales floor.
And I said, no, that's cool,cause I want, cause, no matter
what, you cannot take awayknowledge, and that's what
people don't understand whenthey get in different positions,
like sometimes you, you got totake that pay cut to get the
(27:23):
information, because I canalways sell cars.
I can always go back to that.
Remie (27:28):
You know you, you briefly told me this about this
situation right here, uh gettinginto management, and I kind of
forgot about it, man.
But I know that when I was uhdoing trucking and I came back
as a manager, it was a huge paycut, man, and I was just like,
no, that's cool, Cause I wasthinking so far past it and they
(27:50):
was looking the same way.
Sullivan (27:53):
Like you know, cause the thing is, you know, you, you
got to have your plan in handand my boss that was in, uh, you
know, special finance orsubprime.
Special finance and subprimebasically is getting people with
bad credit vehicles, you know.
So, uh, you know, I was inspecial finance maybe two weeks
(28:15):
and this dude didn't know,calling no show for like seven
days, you know, and I didn'teven know what I was doing yet
and they, you know, he came backand he got to keep his job and
I was disturbed.
I'm like, how does it do no car,no show for seven days and get
to keep his job?
So, and that was in in july of14.
(28:37):
So in October of 14 he didanother no car, no show for like
10 days.
You know, he had his own issues, whatever they may have been,
but the thing was when he no car, no show for them 10 days, the
department didn't fall off.
There was no fall off, therewas no drop.
(28:58):
You know, and that's after that.
That's when I went to ownershipand management hey, hey, mayor,
for 10 days.
One.
He shouldn't be paid for what Idid for the last 10 days to.
I need to be making what hemaking because there was no fall
off.
And what they did, theyswitched my pay plan to his play
pan and I was October of 15 andof 14 in March of 15.
(29:22):
I went to Arizona for a week tofind that school and that's when
I really learned what I didn'tknow, because you don't know
what you don't know sometimesand when the problem with being
trained by somebody else is, allyou're learning is their
mistakes and their shortcuts andwhat they're not doing right,
you know.
So when I came back, I had awhole new outlook and I was
(29:44):
doing whole different thingsMark and him bringing people in.
So they made me director ofsubprime, which made me his boss
, and he pretty much quit rightafter that.
You know and I was July of 15,so I've been in this position,
been in this department, oneyear before I became a director
(30:05):
of the whole department.
Remie (30:10):
So now, fast forward, here we are.
That was 14, so now, man,that's almost 10 years later,
and you, the GSM.
Yeah, that man, congratulations, thanks, and and not not just
to be in the GSM, man, becausethat's really not the Everything
(30:35):
you know, like I ride aroundand see your face on billboards,
bro, that's.
I hear you on the radio.
Yeah, that's, that's dope.
This ain't just like all thenews people in the neighborhood.
Let me, you know, get my shoutout, like, like just to ride
around.
I mean I hate making a wrapball race and To me it's more
(30:57):
than race because I know thatyou know serve time.
You're a black man and youain't in your 60s and 70s, you
know so.
So, to ride around and seesomebody like that and be able
to relate so much.
And I see your face on abillboard, I hear you on the
radio and I know that I Know theamount of respect you got.
(31:17):
You know when, yeah, like kindof like what your homeboys are
like when people buy a car, theyknow that it's some sort of
safety there.
Like I'm about to go up thereand I mean, shoot, like I said,
you got me in the car game so Idon't work there a few
dealerships.
I know that they sell a carthat they know is a limit.
They'd like fucking he get itpast the curb as he is.
(31:38):
Yeah.
Sullivan (31:40):
I mean, that's the thing, like that.
That's kind of what I changedthere and Like in great late.
To this day they pridethemselves on the fact that you
know they don't sell bullshit.
You know I'm saying because Ileft great late for two and a
half years and I found out, likeit quickly.
Other dealerships don't havethat same mentality, you know.
(32:01):
Hey, they just whatever and see, part of my problem was most of
the people that buy cars ormeet know me personally.
You know that I bring into thedealership.
I can't put my name on thatright, you know, and I believe
in accountability and you knowI'm saying your name meaning
something.
You know, with my name being onthe radio or billboards all
(32:23):
over the city or whatever.
You know I'm saying I like Idon't need anybody saying oh
he's, he didn't see that hetries.
You know I said he sold me thisbullshit.
You know I said nah, you know,so it's like.
So I'm gonna, I'm gonna protectmy name.
Yeah, you know I have a lot ofcats.
(32:43):
You know they, they, they don't.
You know saying like you knowand yeah, just not even like,
just to, you know, go back tothe whole prison situation.
Like I used to.
I used to.
I told somebody one time I said, if you want to know that what
kind of man you are, go toprison.
(33:03):
And I said I ain't talkingabout as far as fighting or none
like that, just your characterand what you're made out of.
I Said prison will show you.
I Said it will show you whatyou're built with your made out
of.
I said because I found out veryquickly People that I thought
was made of some stern stuff,what made a shit, and guys that
(33:26):
I thought was weak or soft orwhatever they they they was,
they was throwing, they was theywas made out of some girl girl
things.
You know.
I said so.
You know the same thing with asyou go through life.
You know your character Isalways in question.
You know, as a man, you know inevery aspect of what you do, you
(33:49):
know.
And so, going back to thedealership, you know I'm going
to always take care of mycustomer first and sometimes
it's not in my best businessinterest to take care of my
customer.
You know which?
I bumped heads with people forthat.
Oh, I have to look at thesepeople every desk, that in the
(34:11):
street, in the bar and the club.
You know, and that's my name,and I only take one or two
people to start talking aboutyou with how you ain't shit and
how you did a Burt.
Oh yeah, bad reviews, man,people, be so quick to you,
leave a bad review with a goodreview.
Remie (34:24):
Man.
You got a drag day ass over tothe keyboard, but yeah, so it
was.
It wasn't good business senseon the short end, but in a
bigger picture.
You know, yeah, those thestories that really bring in
more people when they black man,this fell through or this
wasn't right, but this how theymade it right, you know, so you
(34:47):
can, you could trust them, evenif it do turn out to be a little
issue.
Like they gonna make it right,yeah, yeah.
Sullivan (34:53):
You know that, that that long term, you know that
like kind of really don't.
You know that like kind ofreally don't.
You know, realize how much theyname and a character means
something to usually in a 30s,late 30s or 40s, like, yeah, I
don't, like I gotta do right now.
(35:15):
Did like a nine, nine, you know.
Um, you got his own business.
Now he's doing his thing, youknow, but the part part about it
is he was robbing everybodyback in the day.
He was known as a scammers, assdude does that other.
So I don't know by one dobusiness with you because they
don't trust him because of that.
Yeah, you know, even though hegot legal business down, got the
(35:40):
grant money, got all that money, everything doing everything
right in his business, actuallya good business, you know.
But what he was doing in his20s still fall into this day,
which is the same thing whenyou're trying to get a real job,
you know, and you got themfelonies Decisions you make when
you 18 and 19 Be on your ass,or you 24 when you 45.
(36:02):
Yeah, which you know.
I think it's funny now because,you know, once my name got out
there in the car business, youknow, I had companies reaching
out to me left and right likethat, even the background check,
like I don't care about that.
This is another.
These are the same companiesthat I, you know, interview with
where the first thing they wantto know was about the fella.
(36:26):
I had one.
I had one lady.
I told her flat.
I said I interviewed with youback in 2013.
She's like really, who'd youinterview with?
I said you.
And she's like seriously.
I said yeah.
I said you told me you can hireme because of my felon.
You said I have more than Ihave, multiple felonies, so you
can hire me, you know.
(36:50):
She's like there's no way Ipassed up on hiring you.
I said yeah, you did, you know,and you know.
And she was.
She's like oh wow, you know, Isaid, but you know, I understand
.
I said I said go back to thatthing.
Like people believe what theyput in the paper.
They tell you on the paper, akilo was two million dollars in
stream value.
You believe that somebody canmake two million dollars off a
(37:12):
kilo of cocaine.
I said to this day I ain't seenthat street that you can get
that value on.
But that's, that's what theyput in the paper.
Remie (37:27):
And I still got them same felonies.
So good day, yeah they wentnowhere.
Sullivan (37:32):
You know that's right.
I mean, I went nowhere.
I gotta stop you.
I started the whole process ofgetting a pardon Because you
know they got a new program.
I don't even know if you knewabout it.
They got that program with uhGovernor.
Uh, what's the governor doing?
Hey, man, you about to exposeme.
Remie (37:50):
I don't know, governor, still the wine.
Yeah, so the governor and Ohio.
Sullivan (37:54):
State and after you got a program when you can get
your record either expunged oryou can get a uh, you can get a
pardon or whatever, and it's agood thing to do or whatever,
and it's not a horror process.
And I actually started theprocess of going through it, got
all my stuff together,everything was ready to send
(38:16):
everything in, and COVID hit andI don't know what I did with
all that paperwork because Imoved.
I moved also so when I sold myhouse and I moved, so when I'm
so, put all my stuff and so Idon't remember what I did with
that paperwork.
I never sent it in, you know,but at this point I honestly
don't care if it's a partner ornot.
(38:37):
You said, that's what theuniversity hacker is the
university at Akron, ohio Stateand uh, governor Mike DeWine,
I'm gonna have to look into that.
I know a few people that's theone through their program and
got their part, and it's noteven a long process.
Remie (38:55):
I have to look into that man because I would like that.
I would.
Sullivan (39:02):
But, but before I go any, further, and I thought
about doing it for the simplefact that I wanted to hold a
firearm, the only reason Ithought about doing it.
Remie (39:14):
Well, how about that?
I like a lot.
That was the reason I wanted todo it too, but anyway, I wanted
to stop you down.
I wanted to stop you, man,because I wanted to thank you.
You know, I wanted to thank youbecause, um, I didn't know all
this stuff, you know.
But it's like the more you talk,the more I keep hearing my own
(39:34):
story, and that's the exactreason why I'm doing this
podcast in the first place.
Is that so Either people thatdon't know anything about what
the experience is can kind ofrelate to it and see that you
know, it ain't all what you hearin the paper?
Yeah, and then also for peoplethat's going through it
themselves, because a lot ofpeople won't even try to take
(39:56):
that chance of going to get ajob because all they hear like
all the system Tell us, is yougonna have to tell them about
them felonies, you gonna have to.
It's gonna be hard.
You ain't gonna be able to getno house, so you gonna have to
try to find some girl to got ahouse, move up in there with her
, have her take care, likethat's.
They'll be like why?
Why would I even go?
Try to get a job I don't wantto talk about that shit you know
(40:17):
.
Sullivan (40:17):
But you know what, Like, they told me all that when
I got out, man, I stayed withmy mom.
When I first got, I stayed withmy mom for two weeks, like the
only time I said like I hadn'tstayed with my mom so I was 17.
She put me out when I was 17years old.
I uh, I would tell you thestory real quick, how I got put
out the house.
I was still a senior at boththe high school.
I came home one day this wasdecember of 1991 came home.
(40:44):
So you know my mom, sheprobably knows this person.
I'm gonna be honest.
But I came home and I came inthe house she said I'm a
customer.
Hey, my, you know she's allright.
I go upstairs, I get my room,I'm going my room.
It's like 30 grand bunch ofdope, two guns sitting on the
(41:07):
bed.
I had this stuff here.
My mom probably put two hadthis stuff here so well up in,
like the I had a.
I had made a hollowed out areaat the top of the back of my
closet, so that means she didn'tgot on the chair and all kinds
of stuff to figure out what upwhere some might be in this room
.
You know so it's sitting on thebed.
(41:29):
I'm just looking at like dang, Iturn around to go baby down
stairs.
She was right behind I ain'there, I ain't in here, come
upstairs.
She was like you, you got to go.
You got, you got my say I, youknow.
I was like, okay, you know, andI respected it, you know.
So I just, you know, got youknow.
(41:51):
At at that time I was a seniorand I was barely even going to
school.
I was going to school probablytwo days a week, if that, and I
don't even know why I was goingthat much.
I wasn't even interested in it.
I don't mind, my mind was gone.
But I ended up, you know,leaving.
I had some chick give me a roomat extended stay and I stayed
(42:15):
at extended stay for about threeweeks and then, um, I ended up
getting kicked out of booktoolwhat a month or two later For
something I did.
But I had already had 23Credits so they said I could
give my diploma at the end ofthe year anyway.
So I just went, uh, I went downAtlanta.
(42:35):
I didn't know anybody inAtlanta, I just went down
Atlanta.
I stayed in Atlanta and I cameback up here to visit in July
and my mom's, like you, got ascholarship to rice day
university in Dayton I'm likescholarship, I think.
So I'm a scholarship paper andkind of find out her and what.
My English teacher filled it upand you know my GPA was trash
(42:58):
because I didn't do homework butmy test scores were ridiculous,
so you know, and I had a realhigh score on ACT so they gave
me a scholarship.
So I ended up going down therefor a year but I wasn't
interested in college at thatpoint.
That ship is sale to me.
But yeah, and all of this Ijust in hindsight, you know all
(43:20):
of this go back to the fact thatI did not have a positive male
figure in my life.
I would say definitely goinginto the from the eighth to the
ninth grade, because if I did, Iprobably never won, would have
never been able to choose.
Certain decisions that I madewould have never got made, you
(43:41):
know.
Remie (43:42):
I would say that's why I wanted to thank you is because
from the first day I met you itwas like I mean, so my dad is
around, but you know my dad wentto the military.
That's a whole different route.
Besides my dad, I don't know nosuccessful black man from where
I'm from.
Ain't no successful black manthat ever even seen the corner
(44:04):
of Madison and Peckham?
That?
Debbie (44:06):
I know of you, know Let alone.
Remie (44:09):
I know what's going on around there, you know.
So, from the day I met you,it's been like, you know, you've
been somebody I look up to andI strongly believe in mentorship
.
You know, it ain't just like onthe job, training, learning
from that one dude.
It's like, you know, here'ssomebody who's been in my
situation, who's worked theirway out of it, got out the mud,
(44:33):
and who's found real success,and so I really genuinely, you
know, appreciate that.
And then even now, like yearslater, for me to be like, hey,
man, would you do this interview?
And he was like, yeah, sure man, what's huh?
You know, like it ain't evenstop, you know, and I'm still I
mean get more so and I try to dothe best I can to repay you by
(45:00):
mentoring somebody else.
Pass it along.
Sullivan (45:02):
Yeah, you know because I mean gotta pay it for you got
to.
Remie (45:06):
Yeah, it's too many people.
I know Every job I've gotten,whether it was in trucking,
whether it was in selling cars.
I sold solar door to door, foryou know solar houses for a
minute as a side gig, you know,and I always said the same thing
whenever people ask about me.
People I knew that, knew whereI came from and I was like, if
(45:27):
you got a hustlers mentality,you can sell anything, you could
do any job.
Yeah, you know, in trucking I'malways like trying to get you
know an extra, this, gettingextra.
That rebels with this person.
You know, if I work hard andmanagement see that I don't want
management to say, hey, you'resuch a good trucker that I want
to give you this opportunity asa trucker.
(45:48):
I want management to be like,hey, you're such a good trucker
that I want to give youopportunity.
Management, you know like yeah,yeah.
So I'm always telling peoplelike that, all you got to have,
like it's not that impossible.
You already got a hustlersmentality and, like I said,
people get so caught up in thewhole man I can't do that
Because the system and told themthat, that they don't go out to
(46:11):
the truck.
The system tell you get a job atWalmart, you can get job at the
gas station, maybe the factory.
If you know somebody they canget you in, but they don't buy a
.
Go ahead and try selling cars.
It's hustling.
You already know everybody inthe city from selling dope or
doing whatever you was doing.
You know like hit them up.
Sullivan (46:31):
Everybody needed a car you know, and then you got to
add been a social media man.
This is, this is you got yourown marketing platform that you
ain't got to pay for.
Remie (46:39):
Yeah, especially people that already got.
Like you know, 10,000 friends Ihad to get from from the bottom
man.
I had like 100 friends.
But anyway yeah like I justwanted people to know, like you
already got what it take.
And if you cut that mentalityof going and like groveling and
(46:59):
begging for a job, oh pleasehire me.
Think you got to say everythingthe right way, like I didn't
even know all that stuff aboutyou.
But I promise you I did thesame stuff going into a job
interview, like hey, before weeven sit down, like while we
still standing, and just shookhands, let me tell you about
these felonies I got.
Sullivan (47:18):
Yeah, because at this point I let that we ain't even
going out to waste the other'stime.
Yeah.
Remie (47:24):
And you know, it's your time.
I want you to waste my time andif we can't get past this, we
can just go ahead and shakehands again and I walk out free
by the water, you know.
But it caught them so off guardbecause they feel like they're
in control when you start aninterview, because everybody
just wants to come in and slidethe resume across and sit
quietly with the back stiff andsay, please hire me.
(47:46):
But when you go in and you takecontrol like that, you throw
them off.
They like, oh shit, tell meabout it.
Sullivan (47:51):
You know yeah, I'm about to tell you my life.
This is probably the worstinterview I've ever had.
It was, what was it?
Walmart?
This is how I got to join, soI'm going to walk my interview.
We sit there and the guy isinterviewing me.
I'm talking about it, it's justgoing back.
Debbie (48:12):
I was in the middle of the.
I said, listen, man.
Sullivan (48:14):
I said obviously you don't want to hire me.
Debbie (48:17):
That's obvious in the latest interview is going and I
said honestly I don't even wantto work here.
Sullivan (48:21):
So let me get a patch away.
And I just walked out.
I said why am I taking thiskind of flag to work at Walmart
for $6?
Remie (48:31):
And I get the fuck out of here, man.
Yeah, so in response to that,I'm going to tell you a story.
I don't know if you may or maynot know it.
I ain't going to put my name init, but the first job I got at
a car dealership I was a salesassistant.
They wouldn't make me a salesperson because of course I had
(48:53):
no experience, which that aloneI thought was okay valid, and of
course I had just got out ofprison two weeks prior.
So there was like be this salesassistant and you know, three
months, if you do good, you gotit.
I was like cool, well, in threemonths I had people coming in
there asking for me by name.
(49:14):
I didn't make this person'sthat I was.
I was their assistant.
I made their reviews better,pretty much.
I was selling cars on my own bythree months.
And it was a situation wheresome people it was some Indian
dudes, you know how the Indiandudes be they came in and they
(49:35):
wanted to buy a car and I stayedhere two hours after dealership
closed to get that sale man andthe person who I was supposed
to be assistant was not there.
They hadn't been there sincethat afternoon and I got that
sale man.
And when I got my paycheck, Ihad that same little $500 salary
paycheck and I was like, hey, Ineed paid for these cars that I
(50:00):
sold where this person wasn'tthere.
And they were like oh, that'snot your pay plan.
And I was like so you know, it'sbeen three months, so let's
have that, let's have that,let's sit down right now and
talk about it.
And they were like, well, Idon't, I don't really see it,
man, give me another six months.
(50:20):
And I stood up and I was like,hey, listen, man, I don't know
exactly what you make, but I'veheard rumors and I want you to
come to work for six months andbust your ass unless somebody
else take your paycheck.
If you can do that, I'll agreeto it.
And he looked at me like I wascrazy, like who the fuck are you
(50:41):
to talk to me like this?
Sullivan (50:42):
Yeah, and so that's how you got to be, though you
have to.
Remie (50:47):
Yeah, he kind of just sat there and looked at me sideways
and I was like I'm going to goback to my desk.
You can take this as my twoweek notice and thank you for
the opportunity.
And I should have said I walkedout and went back to my desk
and I sent the email to followup, like just so you know this
is my official two week notice.
Yeah, and little did they know,man, like I had turned down two
(51:12):
jobs to come near and I knew Iwas going to make less but I
thought it was a betteropportunity and I had to.
You know I was suspicious thatI suspected that they didn't
want to because of my record.
They figured they could likestring me along with that
opportunity, like you know, tocarry it in front of the donkey.
But yeah, I called that otherplace back.
(51:33):
Man had the job in one week.
You know I went down, I wentdown to orientation on my day
off, man, and that was in.
I don't know.
I got out in May, so that wasin like July, right before my
birthday, and that year I madelike 70 grand from July to the
(51:54):
end of the year.
I was like what the fuck was Iwaiting with them for?
Sullivan (51:59):
One of the saddest things is your current employer
will be the last person thatwant to pay you what you should
be paying.
That's just what I work.
I've seen that Like when I left.
One of the reasons I left whereI was at when I left which is
the same employer that told youyou know it just was stringing
you along.
One of the reasons I left wasbecause I'm I've seen, I've seen
(52:24):
people get hired making 1560grand more than me that he would
come closer to what I could do.
But basically because I grew upin that dealership.
They felt like, oh, we ain'tgot to pay him, that we don't
need more nowhere.
So when I put in my notice theywas in complete disbelief and
shock and they wanted to knowwhy.
And I explained to them.
I said I'm never in contentionfor growth.
(52:46):
I said you want to keep mewhere I'm at because of how much
money I make you?
I said, but that doesn'tbenefit me.
I said I have three dealershipsoffer me a job right now as a
general sales manager and youdon't even have a general sales
manager.
You won't even consider me forthe job.
You know, and he took it.
(53:08):
As you know, I don't take well,to threats to, I say, hey, I'm
not threatening you.
I said I'm taking a job.
I said I'm just telling you whyI'm leaving.
You know, I said because Ithink that's fair, because I
grew up here and you guys wereInstrumental in my growth
process, so I'm not, you know, acold medic against you.
(53:29):
I understand your thoughtprocess too.
You know.
I said I'm just telling you,like, this is why I'm leaving,
you know, and the whole two anda half years I wasn't there,
they spent trying to get me backand and you know, you know, you
know I ended up coming back,but it was on my own terms.
(53:51):
See, that that's the key.
Like, and I tell people all thetime you want to get to a point
where you are like at a pointwhere that they don't know what
to do without you being there.
You know that, you know.
You know, yeah, you can replaceme, but you can't replace me
(54:17):
For sure.
You know that's how you got tobe by.
You know you can replace theposition, but you can't replace
me.
Remie (54:25):
You know it's like in any relationship, in any type of
relationship, whether it'sprofessional or personal,
romantic, anything like that.
I always believed in that kindof old adage like the best
revenge and success.
Oh yeah, because I'm not gonnaact crazy and act out and look
like the bad person and give youa reason to say that's why I
(54:48):
ain't give the opportunity orthat's why I do this.
Yeah, I'm just like you know.
Okay, well, I'm gonna take thisleft right here and then I'm
gonna let you almost stay, justclose enough to let you watch me
succeed and like, damn, why thefuck we let take.
Sullivan (55:03):
Exactly, and that's what happened.
You know, I feel like, if Iwanted, why don't you let him
get away?
Remie (55:08):
I feel like if more people do that, instead of
coming in like groveling forthese jobs, like I said, like I
Kept it real, like when I got toI got down here to Columbus and
I did interview, all myinterviews was like the generous
manager GSM.
You know, I'm like, I Just likeI'm already hungry and I'm
(55:31):
gonna succeed without you.
I just need you To see it andgive me an opportunity to invest
in me so I can make you shine,cuz I'm gonna shine.
You know, yeah, already I tellpeople at a time that my
favorite saying is by Plato.
It says when people speak ill ofyou, you got to live so that
nobody believe it.
I'm already living that way.
(55:51):
There's nothing I'm gonna do tolet anything, any blemish fall
on my name.
All you got to do is let me dowhat I'm doing and take credit
for it.
You know, a dude was sittinghere looking at me like I never
had nobody give me this type ofResponse to why should I hire
you?
So I got another question likeso besides, besides cars, have
(56:17):
you had any other successfulventures?
Or like attempts at other stuff?
Sullivan (56:23):
Um, I had a landscaping business from before
I got into the car business andit was successful, but I just
hated landscaping.
Remie (56:34):
Gotcha, I mean sometimes.
I try what you know work andthen figure out.
Sullivan (56:43):
Not, it's a, and it was a couple business ventures I
went into because I was tryingto find my way, like because I
was thinking entrepreneurial,you know, and I was trying to
find my way and what I mightlike or whatever, and it was not
landscaping.
I can tell you that, cuz I wasthinking in terms of what's
(57:07):
lucrative and I know landscaping, review the landscaper, you
make money, but you, you work alot and you work hard.
Yeah, I was like not the samefor me, you know all right.
Remie (57:20):
So now, on that, you got what you.
You know where you are now.
Actually, before you know,before I ask this question
because this is this gonna be,you know, like kind of the
wrap-up question I know that sofar we've all we only talked
about like success in businessand you know stuff like that.
(57:41):
But you're married, you gotchildren.
Everybody's doing it, you knowgreat, and you do a lot for them
.
Communities, like I always seeyou on Facebook doing some give
back stuff for kids in schoolFootball teams, whatever it is
(58:02):
you know.
So now that I've highlightedthat, because that's that's huge
, you know a lot of people thatmake it don't give back, lot of
people that make it don't comeback.
But now that I said that, like,what are you most proud of
since you've fully embodied thischange?
Sullivan (58:24):
Like first off, let's start here.
I don't even look at, like,some of the stuff I'm doing
community as given back.
You know, it's just somethingthat I'm doing Like, hey, let's
do a book giveaway or let's do abook bag giveaway, something
like that.
It's just that, something thatneeds doing and I'm in a
(58:45):
position where I can facilitatethat financially, financially
and, you know, physicallyfacilitate that, whereas before
I might not have been in thatposition Financially, do it, I
can physically be there and Ican get on the radio and put the
(59:07):
word out, you know.
So I have platforms that Ididn't have access to before and
since I have access to thoseplatforms, I'm just taking
advantage of Gotcha, you know,and I mean, because this is
stuff I would have done, youknow, even when I was, I was
(59:29):
selling dope, you know, I justdidn't have access to the
platforms, you know, and Ididn't want Any unneeded
attention, you know, I'm still,like you know, I'm still, like
you know, kind of uncomfortablewith attention at times and
(59:53):
uncomfortable with, like youknow, compliments.
I've always been uncomfortablewith compliments, receiving
gifts, you know, stuff like that.
I've never been reallycomfortable with those type of
things.
Remie (01:00:09):
You know.
So what are you most proud of?
Sullivan (01:00:13):
Proud of I mean I mean probably my kids.
Remie (01:00:21):
I would say yeah, my wife , what you do.
Sullivan (01:00:29):
You know, when she took the job at the company
she's at now, she's been there20 years, I think.
But when she first got that jobshe was making, I think, eight,
nine thousand hours, you know,and right now, you know, she's
making a pretty nice paycheck.
You know, uh, my children, uh,you know, they focused, they've
(01:00:55):
been graduated.
They two of them have startedfamilies.
One has her own business.
That is actually verysuccessful.
I got you know two in collegethat should be graduating it
within the next year and myyoungest she's, uh, she's Going
to college in about a yearShe'll be a senior.
(01:01:16):
She's been carrying a 4.6 gpathrough act early college and
you know, all her classes arecollege classes, so she's not
doing high school work and shegoes to act renew for high
school.
So you know, uh, their success,they're they're, you know,
(01:01:37):
drive, their focus, that thoseare things that you know I'm
proud of because I didn't wantthem doing any of what I did.
Remie (01:01:47):
You know that right there is, uh Like a full embodiment
of the of the whole title of mypodcast.
Like that's what I'm doing thisfor, like from lockdown to
legacy.
Like that's what you're proudof, this, your legacy, your kids
, what they're doing, whatthey're not doing.
Sullivan (01:02:06):
Because here I feel like, wait, let's say boys born
to me, I I think that periodbetween age 16 to 25 man tactic.
If you can make it out of thatperiod without catching a case
(01:02:28):
getting killed, you know, uh,you might be okay.
Remie (01:02:37):
You know other places they don't think about that.
Yeah, that's, that's a blackthing, man, I don't know, I
don't know too many uh, 16 yearolds in the suburbs will say,
man, if I could just make itthese next five years, uh, I'm
gonna be all right If I don'tdie or go to prison in the next
(01:02:59):
five years.
Um, yeah, I don't think they dothat everywhere else.
Sullivan (01:03:04):
Yeah, because around 25 is when common sense start
kicking in and you start makingdecisions like I probably don't
need to be going there, likeBecause right now you and I both
know which, I think, one reasonwe need to be at the after
hours after the bar.
Remie (01:03:25):
Right right.
I think 25 is when you startactually using wisdom instead of
just you know, knowledge orwhat people tell you, because
when people tell you stuff, youkind of want to Rebelli against
it because you want to be likean alpha.
You know, I don't want to dowhat you say, I'm an alpha, I
could do my own thing.
I think at 25 you startrealizing like okay, I may not
(01:03:49):
have been down this road, but hehas and he's looking pretty
fucked up, yeah because I, um,shit, what was it?
Sullivan (01:04:01):
Uh, I think round 25, because I I had my, um, Nah,
2000, so 26 is when I heard Ihad my first child.
You know, by the end of 26,.
You know, all my dudes havemultiple kids.
You know, I had my first childat 26, like if a chick told me
(01:04:22):
she had kids, I just kept itmoving, I didn't want to have
any.
So, being that, that being mymental mentality, in my
situation, you know, like Ithought different.
I didn't, I didn't feel like Ihad a reason to worry about this
happen to have, because I hadnobody to take care of, I had
nobody to uh, you know that Iwas responsible for other than
(01:04:46):
me.
So, when you know, at 23, youknow, hey man, let's, uh, they
having, uh, they have somethingto after hours.
Tonight it's three in themorning, let's, let's slide over
to the after all, right, yeah,let's roll Now.
At 27, 30, hey man, let's goover to the after hour.
(01:05:10):
Like, uh, I think I ain't goingto know after hour.
At, uh, you know, three in themorning, I got something to do.
Remie (01:05:20):
That's one thing.
Uh, uh.
I marvel at man.
I start my job at 3 30 am and Iwork until 3 30 pm, so Four
days a week and for them 12hours.
Man, from the wee hours in themorning to, you know, leading
into the afternoon, I see somany people I ain't never seen.
(01:05:41):
I didn't even know this manypeople existed at 3, 30, 4, 30,
5, 30 am that ain't got nowhereto be.
They ain't got nowhere to be.
No, no, I ain't saying theyexist.
I'm saying I never knew theyexisted.
All these people that havenowhere to be At 4, 30 am.
Sullivan (01:05:59):
That's what I'm telling you.
Yeah, man.
Remie (01:06:01):
That was me.
Why are you outside?
Sullivan (01:06:06):
Go to the bar man, you go to the after hours.
You didn't hook up with nothingbecause that was your main
mission from going to the afterhours, because you ain't hooked
up with nothing at the bar.
So now you're going to theafter hours See if you can hook
up with something.
Didn't hook up with that at theafter hours.
Now it's 4 30 now you atpennies.
Remie (01:06:25):
Try to see if you can slide somebody else's booth.
Sullivan (01:06:29):
He's mad at that.
That was the life man.
Like you think back on thatlike what the hell's I doing?
Remie (01:06:36):
Yeah, man, all right.
So I got one more question.
It's the.
I'm gonna wrap it up, man, wecan still kick it, but I'm gonna
wrap it up.
Yeah, that's cool.
Um, my last question is, man,in a Kind of short and sweet
what would be your advice tosomebody else that's trying to
start that journey of, uh, likechange and rebuild their life,
(01:06:56):
transformation type stuff?
Sullivan (01:07:00):
um, first thing and it's I know it's it sound easy,
but it's it's not first thing isfigure out what you want to do.
That's, that's first andforemost.
Figure out what you want to do.
Second, once you know youfigure out what you want to do,
(01:07:20):
be the best that you know.
And and education is, is kingand paramount.
And when I say education, Idon't mean like education, like
formal education, like that, Ijust just knowledge of what
you're doing, because that's theonly way you're going to grow,
because that's the only wayyou're going to grow.
And what you want to do andwhat you're trying to do is, if
(01:07:43):
you got knowledge of what you'redoing, you know.
Remie (01:07:52):
I could dig that All right.
So with that man I'ma, i'ma goahead and put a pin in it.
Sullivan (01:07:59):
That's it Okay that was great, cool.
Remie (01:08:03):
Well, thank you very much , sir, for doing this with me.
Sullivan (01:08:06):
Oh man, that's sweet man.
Remie (01:08:09):
I think, uh, I think this is going to be a great episode
and, um, I think that people go,everybody go, you know, get a
lot from it.
Sullivan (01:08:21):
Yeah, I mean, I hope so.
I just you know everybody Idon't know man, I look at some
of these young cats and I evenlook at my own kids, man, like
you know, my daughter told meone day.
She said oh, I hear what you besaying to me, I understand, you
know.
I said I just you know, behaving my own way of thinking.
Debbie (01:08:49):
The lockdown to legacy podcast is proud to be a part of
the bus sprout podcastcommunity network.
Lockdown to legacy is recordedat co-hatch in their lovely
audio file room.
Thanks for your scholarship.
Audio engineering is done byour very own remy jones.
You can reach us with anyfeedback, questions, comments or
share the love by emailingstories at lockdown, the number
(01:09:11):
two legacycom, stories atlockdown to legacycom.
You can reach out there too fora free sticker, and you can
find us on instagram and twitterwith the handle at lockdown to
legacy and on facebook at thelockdown to legacy podcast.
Thanks for listening.
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