Drowning in stuff while navigating midlife transitions? Professional organizer Mary Beth McKinnon reveals why decluttering now might be the greatest gift you'll ever give your family.
Mary Beth shares her personal journey of helping clear out her mother's home after a move to assisted living—a process made doubly painful because her mother was simultaneously grieving her husband and her possessions. This experience transformed Mary Beth's perspective on our relationship with our things and sparked her mission to help others avoid leaving this burden for their children.
Far from just practical advice, this conversation explores the profound emotional aspects of our belongings.
BY THE TIME YOU FINISH LISTENING, YOU'LL DISCOVER:
- Compassionate strategies for getting started without becoming overwhelmed
- The best tip I've ever heard for cleaning out photos on your phone
- Ideas for helping family and friends with the clean out or downsizing process
- Ways to make the entire decluttering process less stressful
🎯 OMG Moment: Give yourself grace throughout the decluttering process. Perfectionism is the enemy of progress, and even small improvements create a sense of lightness and accomplishment that motivates continued effort.
TAKE ACTION:
Find Mary Beth on Instagram @marybeth.mackinnon - and keep enjoying her tips and tricks!
Grab your free StoryCycle resource from Cheryl to navigate the emotional challenges of this process as well.
Listen to Cheryl’s interview with paper organizing expert C. Lee Cawley.
WHY THIS EPISODE MATTERS:
Whether you're considering downsizing, helping parents through transitions, or simply feeling weighed down by decades of accumulated possessions, this episode provides both the practical tools and the mindset shifts needed to create more space—both physical and emotional—in your midlife.
Find all the coaching and podcast resources at cherylpfischer.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Cheryl Fischer (00:00):
You're listening to this podcast right now
because, like me, you're in yourmidlife phase and people ask me
a lot what is that?
Well, 40s, 50s, early 60s, Iwould say we're trying to figure
things out and we're in a lotof transition.
Maybe it's with our parents,with our kids, with both, with
our job, everything, wah,everywhere.
(00:22):
What about looking around ourhouse and noticing we have a lot
of stuff and do we want to havethat stuff?
Or what about our parents?
Do they still have a lot ofstuff?
Should we help with that insome way?
How would we do that?
These are tough conversationsand not an easy topic.
(00:44):
And, at the same time, if wecan do some of that clean out
now, what about the freeingfeeling, the sort of emotional
happiness that it couldpotentially bring?
Let's talk about it.
Welcome to Mind your Midlife,your go-to resource for
(01:05):
confidence and success, onethought at a time.
Unlike most advice out there,we believe that simply telling
you to believe in yourself orchange your habits isn't enough
to wake up excited about life orfeel truly confident in your
body.
Each week, you'll gainactionable strategies and oh my
(01:25):
goodness powerful insights tostop feeling stuck and start
loving your midlife.
This is the Mind your MidlifePodcast.
This past year, my sister and Iworked for a long time and, to
be fair, she more than I she'sin the area.
(01:46):
We worked for a long time oncleaning out my mom's house as
she has settled into assistedliving, and this is a story that
I'm sure you could change thenames and enter your name and a
family member's name or a closefriend's name into a similar
(02:06):
story at this phase in your lifeand as we were going through
this, stuff was just coming outof every crack and crevice.
Stuff was coming out ofeverywhere and it's hard to deal
with that.
You don't know what to do witheverything, and these maybe are
things that matter to people,but do you know whether they
(02:28):
matter to people?
So many, so many toughdecisions, and we ended up
talking to each other about thefact that you know we don't want
to have our kids have to gothrough this at whatever point.
That would be appropriate,because now we see it is hard,
and so today I am excited to bechatting with my guest, who I
(02:52):
have actually known for manyyears.
We're both in the Washington DCarea and she's going to walk us
through this subject, which canbe very emotional and
challenging and also, if youtake some of the pieces of
advice that she's going to giveus, really emotionally freeing
(03:13):
and just I'm trying to describethis feeling of lightness I get
when I get rid of a bag of stuffand the desk looks a little
better or the closet looks alittle more open.
It's such a great light feelingif we can figure out how to do
it and not drive ourselves nuts.
So my guest today, mary BethMcKinnon, is a professional
(03:39):
organizer and a declutteringexpert.
She has a fantastic and hugefollowing on Instagram because
she gives such great tips andshe's hilarious doing it.
So I am excited that she'sgoing to help us with this whole
.
When do I clean out?
How do I clean out situation.
(04:01):
Welcome, mary Beth.
Thanks for joining me.
Thanks, I'm happy to be here.
This is going to be fun.
So tell us first of all, howdid you end up even working as
an organizer?
Marybeth MacKinnon (04:16):
It was sort of a fluke, just kind of a weird
set of circumstances.
I've had a lot of differentjobs in my life.
I've never just sort of beenthe kind of person that
graduated from college and like,boom, this is my job.
I've been an entrepreneur, I'vedone lots and lots of different
things and I was always reallyinterested in organizing.
(04:36):
I organized myself, I justthought it was really fun, which
I've now found out that mostorganizers have that brain Like
we think it's fun At leastsomeone does Right.
Other people, like, dread thethought of it and I loved it,
and so for many years I thoughtabout doing it as a career, but
I didn't know how, I didn't knowwhat I needed to do to do it,
(04:59):
and it turns out you basicallycan just say hi, I'm an
organizer and you're anorganizer If you know what
you're doing.
To become a certified organizerthere's certainly a very, very
long process, but I joined NAPO,which is the National
Association for Organizers, andI connected with some friends
and I just sort of hung my hat.
(05:19):
My sister was my first client.
I basically went to her houseduring COVID and helped her
organize, and that's when Irealized how much I really loved
it.
I woke up in the morning atseven o'clock and I was so
excited to work and I thought Ihaven't had this kind of
excitement doing something in areally long time.
So I came home and I told myhusband, hey, I think I'm going
(05:39):
to be an organizer, and he'slike all right.
Cheryl Fischer (05:42):
So that's what I did.
If I may say, cheers to all thehusbands out there who say, oh,
okay, cause mine is the sameand I have changed a lot of
times what I'm doing.
And he's like, uh, okay, and Ilove that yeah.
Marybeth MacKinnon (05:56):
Yeah, it was .
He was super supportive andit's been the one and I think he
also saw like how excited I wasand I started working a job
just assisting another like veryseasoned organizer.
It was my very first job likereal job and he saw how excited
I was every day when I left thehouse, Like he hadn't seen that
(06:16):
in a long time and so I thinkjust the fact that he knew how
much, how happy I was, just youknow, made everybody happy he
knew how much, how happy I was.
Cheryl Fischer (06:28):
just, you know, made everybody happy.
I mean, I know, if you'relistening to this right now and
you're getting frustratedbecause you're thinking I am not
happy when I go to work in themorning, I know I, we know how
lucky you are.
That's amazing.
It's amazing that you foundthat.
Marybeth MacKinnon (06:41):
Yeah yeah, yeah, and I found it at 55.
So, like you, it is never toolate to change your career.
It is never too late to do tofind that thing that you love.
It's just not, thank you forthat.
Cheryl Fischer (06:52):
That's such a good point, absolutely Okay.
So now we have to get into theemotion of it, because you are
talking about how this is funand I'm glad it's fun, and
everyone should have somethingto do that is fun.
I think what I do right now isfun, and we're going to talk
about cleaning out before a loss, and by that I mean it could be
(07:16):
parents' house, it could be ourown house, thinking ahead that
our kids don't have to clean itout.
This is hard stuff, yeah.
So tell us about yourrealizations related to doing
this ahead of the emotionalimpact.
Marybeth MacKinnon (07:32):
Yeah, so I discovered this with my mom.
So my dad passed away It'll be10 years in June, 10 years ago
and my dad always wanted todownsize.
He did not want to be living inthe big house anymore.
He wanted to downsize.
And my mom was a very lovelyyet quite stubborn woman and she
(07:53):
loved her house and she lovedher stuff and she had absolutely
no desire to live somewheresmaller or get rid of any of her
things.
She was very, very happy whereshe was and it was okay.
My dad was 80.
She was five years younger, soshe was 75.
And they were still bothseemingly quite healthy until my
(08:16):
dad had a stroke.
It's very unexpected.
He was just and lost all of his, everything on the left side of
his body.
He had to go through therapyand learn how to talk and walk
and do all the things and thisis a man who was very active and
all of that happened and it wasvery stressful for the whole
family and the house was verybig and there were all these
(08:38):
things they had to do and my dadcouldn't do it anymore and my
mom had some mobility issues andshe couldn't mow the lawn or do
those things, and so it justbecame like this sort of thing
while he was still living.
That was like we really need toget them to move.
And then he had another stroke,ends up passing away and leaves
my mom with all this stuff.
(09:00):
And so after about a year werealized that we just had to
move her into somewhere smaller.
It was just no longer safe.
It was also really expensivethe upkeep and all of that stuff
.
And so as we were going throughher home and we were getting rid
of things, she was losing notonly her stuff, but she was
(09:23):
losing my dad like all overagain, because she had that
grief.
She was still like very, verydeep in grief and then she was
grieving like this you know thiswater bottle that I've had
since I was 25, like all thesethings that you know, like we
were taking everything away fromher.
(09:44):
And so I just sort of came tothis realization that if I can
save my children from that painbecause it was very painful for
my sister and I to see my momgoing through that and if I can
save my kids that pain fromhaving to deal with that with me
(10:04):
and my husband, that would bewonderful.
But then also I want to be ableto make the decisions with my
spouse or whoever I am livingwith.
What are the things that areimportant for me to keep as I
age and when I'm ready todownsize, and I would like to
(10:25):
not have to make that decisionwithout my person.
Cheryl Fischer (10:29):
Yeah, like.
Marybeth MacKinnon (10:30):
I want to do that together and I don't want
him to have to.
You know, if he has to downsize, well, he'll probably just be
like, yeah, just take it.
I mean I don't know what he'll,what he'll think, but I mean, I
think he actually probably willbe in grief as well, I hope.
But it's just, it's hard, Likethey just, you know, you don't
know, you don't know what, whatI don't necessarily know what my
(10:51):
husband might want to bring aswe downsize.
Right, I might, I don't reallyknow what might be important to
him, right?
So I think making those kinds ofdecisions together and not
leaving them to your childrenand then also just not leaving a
gigantic house full of stufffor your kids to take care of,
like is like the biggestblessing that you can give your
(11:13):
family Like it really really is.
Cheryl Fischer (11:15):
I really, really agree with you and that is why
I wanted to do this episode,because this is a hard topic and
maybe I might normally not talkabout something kind of this
hard to think about on thisparticular podcast.
But also the way you describeit is a shift in thinking too.
It's a mindset shift.
(11:35):
And what you're saying is howdo I want to say this?
I think maybe because I've gonethrough this with my mom and I
think the way we might normallythink is that we've had this
whole big life and now we haveto give up all our stuff, like
that's awful, it's not fair, wefeel defeated, why can't we have
(11:58):
the stuff that we earned?
And you're flipping it andyou're saying let's do it now
and feel maybe better about theprocess and have the emotions be
easier to handle, kind of yeah,yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Marybeth MacKinnon (12:13):
And you know I have an aunt who is very much
in the thought of like gettingrid of stuff.
She has one child and she'slike I don't want to burden him
and she said I'm already goingthrough, like my pictures, and
if it's stuff that I don't evenknow, she's like I'm throwing it
away because I don't want himto have to to deal with that
stuff.
And so it's, it is a gift togive your family if you can do
(12:37):
it and also while you're stillhealthy and you know, some of
the stuff you just you don'tneed, like you just we have so
much stuff we don't need so much.
Cheryl Fischer (12:48):
Yeah, and you know, the funny thing is, as
I've been getting ready to talkto you about this, I have this
system that I use for my clothesin my closet, because I don't
have that big of a closet,because we actually downsized
five years ago.
But I'll turn the hangers likebackwards and then if a year has
gone by and I've not flipped itaround because I've worn it, I
get rid of it, and I'm reallyadamant about that.
(13:08):
But yet I have junk drawers andclosets full of who knows what.
So I'm not really applying thesystem everywhere and I guess I
need to be Well it's just stillit's little bits at a time.
Yeah Well, okay.
So then let's take in thatdirection.
Let's say that someone islistening and feeling like all
(13:30):
right, yeah, I have a lot ofstuff and maybe I should start
cleaning out.
Where do we even start you?
Marybeth MacKinnon (13:37):
just pick one place.
You just pick one thing.
You can't, I tell everybody,you cannot expect to declutter
or downsize your whole house ina weekend, right, you just can't
.
Like you're just settingyourself up for defeat.
So you start one thing at atime, like I, with my clients,
with my friends, with myfollowing on Instagram, like my
(13:59):
whole thing is what can wedeclutter in 30 minutes or less
in a day, or five minutes orless in a day?
What is something that we cantake a little bit of and get rid
of, and that is that seems somuch more manageable of and get
rid of, and that is that seemsso much more manageable.
And so if you have successdecluttering your junk drawer
and you can do that in a halfhour, then you're going to, when
(14:21):
you go into, like get your youknow your pen or your scissors
or your chapstick or whatever itis, you're like, oh my gosh.
Like look at this junk drawer,like it looks so nice.
I think I want to do my coffeemugs next.
And you just do little things.
You know, every day you dosomething because we're you know
we're so overwhelmed right now.
You know we're the sandwichgeneration.
(14:42):
We're dealing with our kids whoare in college or young adults.
We're dealing with our agingparents who are in assisted
living or nursing homes orhaving dementia or all the
things, and we're still tryingto work and make a living and
make our husbands happy and doall the things.
We don't have time to sitaround and do the entire closet
(15:06):
in a day, so little things.
Do your t-shirts, do an officedrawer, all those kinds of
things?
Do your stuff that needs to beshredded from your filing
cabinet?
Do you know that millennialsand Gen Zs they don't have
filing cabinets.
Cheryl Fischer (15:23):
They don't have paper.
I'm jealous of them honestly.
I know they don't keep paper.
Marybeth MacKinnon (15:28):
Everything is automated for them and for us
Gen Xers and baby boomers, wehave a really hard time wrapping
our heads around that.
Like getting rid of the paper.
Like we are, you know, ourpaper is like our parents'
tinfoil and baggies, like youknow how they wash their tinfoil
and baggies and they would, youknow, reuse.
Like for us, it's the paper Ijust have.
(15:51):
And even for me as an organizer, like you can see, I have a
four drawer file cabinet reallyhard for me to get rid of paper
and I'm I'm getting, I'm tryingto get my bills automated.
Cheryl Fischer (16:00):
I just don't really like to see all the
things.
So, and and for those of youlistening, let me just say in
the show notes I'm going to linkan episode I did back in the
previous, the previous versionof the podcast with a paper
organizer because this is theperfect thing If somebody's
thinking oh, that's my problem.
Marybeth MacKinnon (16:18):
And we need to go listen to that episode.
Cheryl Fischer (16:20):
Okay, so what if let's?
That's a great answer forstarting on our own house,
apartment, whatever.
What if it's someone elseprobably a parent, but someone
else and we want to help themget started?
How do you have any advice forthat?
Marybeth MacKinnon (16:37):
Because that's tricky, it is very tricky
and you have to start like.
You have to come at itobviously from a place of love
and a place of like service,like I want to help you.
Some people are going to bevery amenable to that and they
are going to they.
They will welcome that helpOther people.
It can be very difficult,especially if there's any kind
(17:00):
of hoarding disorder, anythinglike that.
That's a really a whole notherball game and in that situation
I would recommend hiring aprofessional like mental health
counselor to help with that.
Because even as a professionalorganizer, I don't typically
work with hoarders becausethey're they're not messy,
because they just, you know, hadtoo many things like that.
(17:23):
It's it's a mental healthcondition.
So you have to really beequipped to deal with somebody
like that.
But if it's like your parents,you have to literally come at
them just from a place of loveand a very, very deep place of
patience, because they, you knowthey're sometimes they're going
to feel like you're trying totake things away from them.
(17:45):
If you, if you come to them andI wish I would have known this,
you know, with my parents,because if I would have come to
them and said hey, I want youguys to make these decisions
together, like I don't want youto have to make this when dad's
gone or dad, I don't want you tohave to do this when mom's gone
.
I want you to do this togetherand I will help you.
And then also, sometimesbringing in an organizer,
(18:06):
bringing in a third party, canbe really, really helpful,
because there's a lot of familyemotions when it comes to this
stuff.
But when you have a third partythere, sometimes that third
party can really help bridgethat gap between the emotion and
what needs to happen.
And you have to just also, mysister and I were very we were
(18:32):
probably a little mean with mymom and when we were making her
get rid of stuff and pack up herhouse, like we just we were
like you're moving into a twobedroom apartment, you don't
need two 30 cup percolators,like you just don't anymore,
like you don't make that muchcoffee, and so we just you know
we had to give her some toughlove, yeah, but you have to just
(18:53):
sort of read the room and youhave to be able to assess, like,
what your relationship is withthat parent.
Sometimes you might even haveto step away and just let an
organizer come in and help dothe work.
But if you have parents that are, you know, I was talking to a
friend who I've actually alsobeen working with and her father
just had a heart episode andhis wife passed away a few years
(19:16):
ago.
He lives alone and he flat outrefuses help.
He refuses like any, and thisis like health help, like
in-home healthcare, like refuses.
So sometimes you have a parentlike that that just is going to
like they're, they're justthey're just gonna say no, and
you have to respect that.
You can't you really can't makethem do things that they're not
(19:39):
ready for or they don't want todo.
But you can find ways toencourage them.
You know you can.
Yeah, because that's that'sreally all you can do.
Cheryl Fischer (19:48):
I really love what you said about encouraging
them to make the decisiontogether while the two of them
are still together.
That, just it, speaks to me and, to be honest with you, my
parents are divorced.
They are not together, so thatwould not have worked in my
situation.
However, it's a caring way ofbringing it up that I would not
(20:10):
have thought of.
Marybeth MacKinnon (20:11):
Yeah, yeah, and it also comes down to too,
like I was.
I was really sort of like hit.
My mom passed away almost ayear ago and she had dementia
and she was in a nursing home atthe end for the last like nine
months of her life.
And I would go in to see her inher room and out of her 86
years of life, all she had leftwas a recliner, a nightstand, a
(20:34):
lamp and a few pictures on thewall.
That was it.
And because she had dementia,she didn't know that that was
all she had left.
But we collect all these things.
We think we have to have allthese things all the time around
us, particularly our parents,our generation, the boomers, the
(20:54):
Gen Xs because that's just sortof how we were brought up and
our parents it was thedepression, you know.
And thankfully our kids now areway more minimalist, like they
don't want stuff, like thattrend, that change is happening
and it's really awesome to see.
Like it's gonna probably put meout of business, but that's
(21:16):
okay, like that's okay.
You know, I read this articleone time titled our kids don't
want our brown furniture.
Oh, like gosh, you know, theyjust don't, they don't want
grandma's hutch.
I'm sorry, yeah, yeah.
So it's just, you know, we justall have too much.
We all have too much and wehave to get to the point where
(21:37):
we're okay with, like, lettingthat too much go and be okay
with having less.
Cheryl Fischer (21:44):
You know, one of the things I've heard people in
, let's say, gen Z say andobviously we're both.
This is very general, everyonemight be different but one of
the things I've heard them sayis well, we want experiences.
We don't need the stuff, wewant the experiences, because
then we have the memories and Ihave started to love that
perspective.
Marybeth MacKinnon (22:05):
Yeah, and that's a really great thought
too and that is also somethingthat you can go at with your
parents, with, or whoever you'rehelping through this process is
we want you to be able to enjoyyour retirement, to enjoy your
grandchildren, to be able to dothings with us, and why don't we
get you to a place where you'remore comfortable, where you
don't have so much stuff, andthen you don't have to worry
(22:28):
about cleaning the house all thetime or having the lawn mowed
or the garden or whatever it is,and then maybe you can come
visit us or we can go onvacation together or we can do
things that we love.
That are experiences, andyou're not going to be so tied
to your home and your stuff.
Cheryl Fischer (22:46):
Yeah.
You know, yeah, and I think, asyou said, some people will
really get it and will beabsolutely open to doing it, and
other people are not going toget it and are going to
absolutely not be open to doingthis and are going to feel like
we're trying to take their stuffaway and we have to be made,
and then that's really hard foreverybody, because people are
(23:16):
forced to move into a situationthat they never wanted to do and
then a lot of times they can'teven make those decisions.
Marybeth MacKinnon (23:22):
You know, and that's even something that
kids can talk to their parentsabout, like, do you want to have
something happen and have tomove into assisted living and
not even be able to come back toyour house and figure out what
you want to take with you?
Right, you know, because thathappens a lot.
Yeah, happened to my mom.
Cheryl Fischer (23:38):
Okay, I'm going to brighten it up again, yeah.
Marybeth MacKinnon (23:43):
Stop talking about depressing things.
Cheryl Fischer (23:46):
Important but also difficult, and that's fair.
So one of my I always joke thatone of my love languages is
pictures, and that's not reallya love language, but it's still
like I love my pictures, I lovehaving pictures.
I have them on the wall in thestairway, all over whatever
phone.
Of course, let's say that westart going through our pictures
(24:08):
and we say we want to clean out.
Do you, do you have some adviceon that?
Because to me, like I havealbum upon album upon album and
boxes and my mom has slides andyou know it's all kinds of stuff
, okay so well, let's talk aboutour photos first.
Marybeth MacKinnon (24:23):
okay, because again, this is where our
kids are.
Have the the niceness theydon't have to deal with this.
All their pictures are on theirphones and if they want them,
they will print them, butthey're not like us who you had
to send the film off to theclerk or whoever and get doubles
.
So you had two pictures ofeverything.
(24:44):
Because, oh, my goodness, whatif we don't?
What if we lose one, like, yes,the doubles, we have doubles of
everything, right?
So what I am doing right now formyself with my photos because,
again, I'm just like you, I havea lot of photo albums of
pictures, because when I gotthose pictures back, I would
take the half and I would juststick them in my album.
(25:06):
And I've started going throughall of those photo albums and
I'll do it just when I'm sittingdown and watching tv at night,
like just hanging out, and I gothrough them.
If there are any pictures inthose albums that are like
blurry because, yes, I saved theblurry ones of, like the back
of someone's head.
If they're people, I don't evenknow who they are.
(25:27):
If they're, uh, suns my dad hadabout 700 metric tons of sunset
photos like vacation photosfrom you know, like landscape
picture.
So I had so many of those andsome of them I will keep.
But for the most part I've beengoing through my photo albums
(25:47):
and pulling out bad pictures,pictures that I don't know,
people, pictures that are justlike why is that there?
And throwing them away.
As a starting place, I used tobe a scrapbooker so I did
scrapbooks for my family.
I have one kid up to eighthgrade and one kid up to sixth
grade and they actually lovetheir scrapbooks.
(26:09):
I kind of want to finish themthrough high school.
That may be a retirement job, Idon't know.
But so I still have somepictures that I printed out that
I've saved, that I'm going todo that for.
But the stuff from like me whenI was like single and stupid
not not all of those things needto be saved.
Like they're still in photoalbums, but like my kids aren't
(26:30):
going to care, like they're justthey're not going to want any
of those.
So I think it's just.
You know you can keep them foryourself, but you can tell your
kids you have permission to getrid of these when I'm gone.
Like, if you still like themand enjoy looking at them.
Keep the, keep the good ones,just go through and sort them,
sort them out.
If you have pictures of likefamily, like your parents, like
(26:50):
your, like my mom, when I had togo through her stuff, I threw
away every single picture ofsomeone I did not know she had.
She was like she had so manypictures, black and whites, of
like stuff from her childhoodstuff from, I mean, and her.
She had a large family but herclosest sister had passed away.
I knew a lot of the other.
(27:11):
Her other sisters wouldn't knowwho the people were and I
didn't want to burden them withthe stuff.
So I looked at my sister and Iwas like, is it okay if I throw
these away?
And she was like, yep, so we,just we got rid of a lot, a lot
of stuff.
There are a couple of differentcompanies that will do
digitization services.
So if you do have some specialold photographs, slides,
(27:34):
videotapes, you can get themdigitized, which is what I did
with all of our like home videos.
Okay, because I, you know again, like with our kids, we had
everything on the video camera.
Yeah, you know we weren't ableto just record with our phone.
So I had all these great videosof my kids when they were
babies but I never watched thembecause it was there's too much
rigmarole to hook it up andwatch it.
(27:55):
But now I have them on mycomputer and it's amazing.
I love it.
Cheryl Fischer (27:58):
That is amazing and I think I need to do that.
Yeah, yeah, you know what?
There's something aboutpictures for me and I'm betting
I'm not the only one that if Ithrow it away, I feel guilty,
like I like I'm throwing awaythe person or something.
I don't know what it is.
So I appreciate you giving usthe permission.
Marybeth MacKinnon (28:16):
Yeah, you definitely have permission to
throw it away.
Yeah, you, absolutely.
I mean it is.
Though, and here's also the waythat I think about it I just I
just think, like when I'm goneand my kids are like I mean
there might be some picturesthat they laugh at, but like
when they're going through likethat stuff, like I mean there
might be some pictures that theylaugh at, but like when they're
going through like that stuff,like is that really something
(28:37):
that I want them to have tospend time on and figure out if
it's important?
Like I don't want to burdenthem with it.
Like I don't want them to have agarage filled with my photo
albums in their house.
Like I don't want to add totheir clutter.
Like that is not a gift that Iwant to give them at all.
Like I don't want to add totheir clutter.
Like that is not a gift that Iwant to give them at all.
Like, do I want to give themthe scrapbooks that I made for
(28:59):
them?
Sure, but I'm not even surethey want.
They each have like one bin ofpapers from preschool and, like
you know, the turkey hand youknow from preschool.
Like they each have one bin ofstuff, like in our storage room
upstairs.
I'm not even sure they're goingto want those.
I'm boys, so it's that's.
I think is sometimes, you know,a different sentimentality than
(29:22):
girls.
But I'm fairly certain thatthey don't even know they're
there.
And if I were to pull them outand be like, do you want these?
They'd probably be like no.
Cheryl Fischer (29:31):
Yeah, well, I have a boy and a girl and I
suspect they both might feelthat way.
She would probably want to lookat it, but I don't know if
she'd want to take it.
Yeah.
Marybeth MacKinnon (29:43):
Yeah, exactly, and I have one, my
youngest.
He still loves looking at hiselementary school yearbooks.
He's a little bit moresentimental, but yeah, they just
, they just don't have anattachment to stuff like we do.
Cheryl Fischer (29:57):
Yeah.
Marybeth MacKinnon (29:58):
Yeah.
Cheryl Fischer (29:58):
You know, yeah, yeah.
Marybeth MacKinnon (30:00):
And then I also and for my other big hot
tip for digital photos, right,because we all have a gazillion
of them on our phone.
I think right now I have 48,000pictures or something on my
phone and like 10,000 videosfrom concerts.
I mean, it's ridiculous is andI don't do this every day, but
when I think about it I do, andsomeone actually posted this on
(30:23):
Instagram and I thought it was agenius idea Put a reminder in
your phone every day at the sametime, so it could be like eight
o'clock at night, like whatevertime it is when you generally
are not doing anything, whereyou're just sort of chilling out
.
At that time, at eight o'clockat night, you're going to go
through your phone or youriCloud or wherever your photos
are, and you're going to go backas far as you have them in the
(30:44):
cloud every day on that day.
So my cloud started in 2013.
So you go back to 2013, onMarch 10th, and 2013, 2014,
2015,.
You look at your photos forthat day and you delete anything
that is like a bad photo.
You know, I have so manypictures of my kids playing
hockey and lacrosse.
(31:04):
I have so many screenshots andmemes and just stuff.
So you do it every day.
So that's 12 years now for meeach day, but some years I
didn't take pictures on March10th, so I won't have any photos
.
But if you do that, startingtoday on March 10th, by March
10th of 2026, you're not goingto have to do it again.
Amazing, you're going to haveit all.
(31:26):
Your iCloud storage is going tojust like dwindle every single
day.
So I don't do it every day.
I try to do it, you know asoften as I think about it, but I
thought that was like the besttip on dealing with digital
photos.
Cheryl Fischer (31:40):
Wow, yeah, okay, and if you're listening, I know
you can't see me, but my jawwas hanging open as Mary Beth
was saying that.
Marybeth MacKinnon (31:49):
Yep, yeah, it was that.
I just thought that was genius.
I can't remember who it was,who, who?
I saw say that on Instagram.
Cheryl Fischer (31:55):
And that just kind of maybe it brings us back
in a nice little wrap up here.
It brings us back to what youwere saying, where if we can do
this in small steps, then wedon't get overwhelmed, because
when we get overwhelmed, that'swhen the voice in our head
starts going this is too much,it's too hard.
I don't want to, I'm just goingto make a mess.
(32:16):
If we can avoid all that,better, better by far?
Marybeth MacKinnon (32:20):
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely, because
it and I will say too, for um, Ilive with, like, everyone in my
family except for me has ADHDin my house, so that it and if
you know that you'reneurodivergent or you have any
issues with that, that that's awhole nother level of um, of
like giving yourself grace,because, um, I have many clients
(32:41):
who have ADHD and struggle withclutter, and that is also
that's a brain issue.
So, having putting things inplace that are going to make it
easier for you to go throughyour day, you know just things
that are as simple as, like, Ihave a hook in my front room to
hang keys on Little things oforganization and decluttering
(33:03):
that are going to be triggers tohelp you remember to do things,
and so I think that that's alsoreally important to give
yourself grace if you'restruggling with that and know
that you just have a little bitof an extra hill to climb, but
it's not impossible.
And if you set up systems, ifyou have really good systems in
place, you know things, justlike making your bed in the
(33:24):
morning.
You know doing little things,don't you know, when you get
ready for bed at night, like,don't leave your clothes on the
floor in your closet.
Like put them you know ifyou're, if you're not going to
put them in the laundry.
Like hang them back up again.
Like just making little stepsevery day, because if you do it
every day then it doesn't buildup, it's just taking little
(33:45):
bitty steps.
Doing little bitty differentthings can really make just such
a huge difference.
Cheryl Fischer (33:50):
I love that Going through your mail when it
comes.
Marybeth MacKinnon (33:53):
You know, don't, don't put your mail in a
pile, go through it immediatelywhen you pick it up out of the
mailbox.
Cheryl Fischer (33:58):
Yes, I'm trying to get better at that and it
does help, absolutely does help,yeah, okay, so where, let's say
, someone is intrigued, theymight be in the DC area, they
might be interested in workingwith you, or they just want to
find you and learn from youonline.
Where can they do that?
How can they?
Marybeth MacKinnon (34:13):
do that, so they can find me on Instagram at
Marybeth Mackinnon.
It's M-A-C-K-I-N-N-O-N.
Yeah, perfect, so Instagram iswhere I am most.
I do have a TikTok, but it'sjust basically everything that I
put on Instagram.
Cheryl Fischer (34:28):
So perfect and same.
All right, I will make surethat's in the show notes.
Marybeth MacKinnon (34:32):
Awesome, and I do, do, I do, do I do
decluttering challenges, allkinds of different things on my
Instagram, and I have a privatecommunity on Facebook as well.
If people are interested injoining that.
Cheryl Fischer (34:43):
All right, then my last question for you.
Yes, everyone who has beenlistening has been learning, and
they're going to come back tothis episode, but what is the
one thing that they shouldreally remember, that they can
hold in their brain withouthaving to maybe listen back
immediately?
What's the OMG?
I have to remember this onething.
Marybeth MacKinnon (35:04):
I think I thought about this and I think
that the thing is give yourselfgrace.
Don't punish yourself for theway your house looks or the way
your closet looks.
Give yourself grace.
We are all busy.
We all have busy lives.
We are all doing a millionthings.
Some of us have the organizinggene, some of us have the
(35:25):
organizing gene, some of usdon't, and that's okay.
But you have to be patient withyourself.
You're never going toaccomplish anything.
You're never going to be ableto like climb that mountain if
you are beating yourself up thatyou can't climb the mountain.
You just like.
You have to be able to likelook at it and love yourself,
love your home and want it tojust be a little bit better.
(35:48):
It doesn't have to be perfect.
There's too much perfectionism.
I watch all those videos onInstagram of people restocking
their refrigerator and I want toreach through my phone and
punch them in the face becausethat's not real life.
Nobody has a refrigerator likethat.
Like it drives me literallycrazy.
Like where do you put yourleftovers?
Cheryl Fischer (36:11):
I hear you.
Marybeth MacKinnon (36:12):
Like it is, just it's.
I mean, what is the presentover?
Perfect, I think, is a bookthat I was bought and was
supposed to read at some point,but literally like it does not
have to be perfect, it justneeds to be a little bit better.
No, give yourself grace.
Cheryl Fischer (36:25):
I love it Well, mary Beth.
Thank you so much.
This has been a greatconversation.
You are so welcome.
It's my pleasure.
Marybeth MacKinnon (36:31):
Thanks for having me.
Cheryl Fischer (36:32):
Oh, my goodness, what a great OMG moment.
And I promise I did not tellMary Beth ahead of time to give
us an OMG moment.
That would be about our mindsetabout this whole subject.
She did it anyway.
Be gentle with yourself, bekind with yourself.
We can't move forward if we'reconstantly beating ourselves up.
(36:56):
That just really deserved to berepeated again.
Thank you for that, mary Beth.
Now in the show notes I willhave Mary Beth's Instagram you
definitely want to find her andI will also have a link for my
free story cycle resource tohelp you start to recognize,
(37:17):
especially in some of thesedifficult situations, what is
the emotion that you're feelingright now and what is going on
in your head behind the scenesthat's creating that emotion,
because recognizing it isabsolutely the powerful first
step that you can take to startmaybe switching your perspective
(37:38):
, switching your mindset aboutsome of these things that are
difficult to deal with in life.
And make sure that you hit thefollow button, because on our
next episode, we're going to betalking about regret, nostalgia
or gratitude, and we're going totalk about the fact that we get
a choice of how we look atthings from our past and,
(38:01):
depending on how we make thatchoice.
It really affects our qualityof life.
Now I'll see you then.
In the meantime, let's keepcreating confidence and success,
one thought at a time.
You're listening to this podcast right now
because, like me, you're in yourmidlife phase and people ask me
a lot what is that?
Well, 40s, 50s, early 60s, Iwould say we're trying to figure
things out and we're in a lotof transition.
Maybe it's with our parents,with our kids, with both, with
our job, everything, wah,everywhere.
(00:22):
What about looking around ourhouse and noticing we have a lot
of stuff and do we want to havethat stuff?
Or what about our parents?
Do they still have a lot ofstuff?
Should we help with that insome way?
How would we do that?
These are tough conversationsand not an easy topic.
(00:44):
And, at the same time, if wecan do some of that clean out
now, what about the freeingfeeling, the sort of emotional
happiness that it couldpotentially bring?
Let's talk about it.
Welcome to Mind your Midlife,your go-to resource for
(01:05):
confidence and success, onethought at a time.
Unlike most advice out there,we believe that simply telling
you to believe in yourself orchange your habits isn't enough
to wake up excited about life orfeel truly confident in your
body.
Each week, you'll gainactionable strategies and oh my
(01:25):
goodness powerful insights tostop feeling stuck and start
loving your midlife.
This is the Mind your MidlifePodcast.
This past year, my sister and Iworked for a long time and, to
be fair, she more than I she'sin the area.
(01:46):
We worked for a long time oncleaning out my mom's house as
she has settled into assistedliving, and this is a story that
I'm sure you could change thenames and enter your name and a
family member's name or a closefriend's name into a similar
(02:06):
story at this phase in your lifeand as we were going through
this, stuff was just coming outof every crack and crevice.
Stuff was coming out ofeverywhere and it's hard to deal
with that.
You don't know what to do witheverything, and these maybe are
things that matter to people,but do you know whether they
(02:28):
matter to people?
So many, so many toughdecisions, and we ended up
talking to each other about thefact that you know we don't want
to have our kids have to gothrough this at whatever point.
That would be appropriate,because now we see it is hard,
and so today I am excited to bechatting with my guest, who I
(02:52):
have actually known for manyyears.
We're both in the Washington DCarea and she's going to walk us
through this subject, which canbe very emotional and
challenging and also, if youtake some of the pieces of
advice that she's going to giveus, really emotionally freeing
(03:13):
and just I'm trying to describethis feeling of lightness I get
when I get rid of a bag of stuffand the desk looks a little
better or the closet looks alittle more open.
It's such a great light feelingif we can figure out how to do
it and not drive ourselves nuts.
So my guest today, mary BethMcKinnon, is a professional
(03:39):
organizer and a declutteringexpert.
She has a fantastic and hugefollowing on Instagram because
she gives such great tips andshe's hilarious doing it.
So I am excited that she'sgoing to help us with this whole
.
When do I clean out?
How do I clean out situation.
(04:01):
Welcome, mary Beth.
Thanks for joining me.
Thanks, I'm happy to be here.
This is going to be fun.
So tell us first of all, howdid you end up even working as
an organizer?
Marybeth MacKinnon (04:16):
It was sort of a fluke, just kind of a weird
set of circumstances.
I've had a lot of differentjobs in my life.
I've never just sort of beenthe kind of person that
graduated from college and like,boom, this is my job.
I've been an entrepreneur, I'vedone lots and lots of different
things and I was always reallyinterested in organizing.
(04:36):
I organized myself, I justthought it was really fun, which
I've now found out that mostorganizers have that brain Like
we think it's fun At leastsomeone does Right.
Other people, like, dread thethought of it and I loved it,
and so for many years I thoughtabout doing it as a career, but
I didn't know how, I didn't knowwhat I needed to do to do it,
(04:59):
and it turns out you basicallycan just say hi, I'm an
organizer and you're anorganizer If you know what
you're doing.
To become a certified organizerthere's certainly a very, very
long process, but I joined NAPO,which is the National
Association for Organizers, andI connected with some friends
and I just sort of hung my hat.
(05:19):
My sister was my first client.
I basically went to her houseduring COVID and helped her
organize, and that's when Irealized how much I really loved
it.
I woke up in the morning atseven o'clock and I was so
excited to work and I thought Ihaven't had this kind of
excitement doing something in areally long time.
So I came home and I told myhusband, hey, I think I'm going
(05:39):
to be an organizer, and he'slike all right.
Cheryl Fischer (05:42):
So that's what I did.
If I may say, cheers to all thehusbands out there who say, oh,
okay, cause mine is the sameand I have changed a lot of
times what I'm doing.
And he's like, uh, okay, and Ilove that yeah.
Marybeth MacKinnon (05:56):
Yeah, it was .
He was super supportive andit's been the one and I think he
also saw like how excited I wasand I started working a job
just assisting another like veryseasoned organizer.
It was my very first job likereal job and he saw how excited
I was every day when I left thehouse, Like he hadn't seen that
(06:16):
in a long time and so I thinkjust the fact that he knew how
much, how happy I was, just youknow, made everybody happy he
knew how much, how happy I was.
Cheryl Fischer (06:28):
just, you know, made everybody happy.
I mean, I know, if you'relistening to this right now and
you're getting frustratedbecause you're thinking I am not
happy when I go to work in themorning, I know I, we know how
lucky you are.
That's amazing.
It's amazing that you foundthat.
Marybeth MacKinnon (06:41):
Yeah yeah, yeah, and I found it at 55.
So, like you, it is never toolate to change your career.
It is never too late to do tofind that thing that you love.
It's just not, thank you forthat.
Cheryl Fischer (06:52):
That's such a good point, absolutely Okay.
So now we have to get into theemotion of it, because you are
talking about how this is funand I'm glad it's fun, and
everyone should have somethingto do that is fun.
I think what I do right now isfun, and we're going to talk
about cleaning out before a loss, and by that I mean it could be
(07:16):
parents' house, it could be ourown house, thinking ahead that
our kids don't have to clean itout.
This is hard stuff, yeah.
So tell us about yourrealizations related to doing
this ahead of the emotionalimpact.
Marybeth MacKinnon (07:32):
Yeah, so I discovered this with my mom.
So my dad passed away It'll be10 years in June, 10 years ago
and my dad always wanted todownsize.
He did not want to be living inthe big house anymore.
He wanted to downsize.
And my mom was a very lovelyyet quite stubborn woman and she
(07:53):
loved her house and she lovedher stuff and she had absolutely
no desire to live somewheresmaller or get rid of any of her
things.
She was very, very happy whereshe was and it was okay.
My dad was 80.
She was five years younger, soshe was 75.
And they were still bothseemingly quite healthy until my
(08:16):
dad had a stroke.
It's very unexpected.
He was just and lost all of his, everything on the left side of
his body.
He had to go through therapyand learn how to talk and walk
and do all the things and thisis a man who was very active and
all of that happened and it wasvery stressful for the whole
family and the house was verybig and there were all these
(08:38):
things they had to do and my dadcouldn't do it anymore and my
mom had some mobility issues andshe couldn't mow the lawn or do
those things, and so it justbecame like this sort of thing
while he was still living.
That was like we really need toget them to move.
And then he had another stroke,ends up passing away and leaves
my mom with all this stuff.
(09:00):
And so after about a year werealized that we just had to
move her into somewhere smaller.
It was just no longer safe.
It was also really expensivethe upkeep and all of that stuff
.
And so as we were going throughher home and we were getting rid
of things, she was losing notonly her stuff, but she was
(09:23):
losing my dad like all overagain, because she had that
grief.
She was still like very, verydeep in grief and then she was
grieving like this you know thiswater bottle that I've had
since I was 25, like all thesethings that you know, like we
were taking everything away fromher.
(09:44):
And so I just sort of came tothis realization that if I can
save my children from that painbecause it was very painful for
my sister and I to see my momgoing through that and if I can
save my kids that pain fromhaving to deal with that with me
(10:04):
and my husband, that would bewonderful.
But then also I want to be ableto make the decisions with my
spouse or whoever I am livingwith.
What are the things that areimportant for me to keep as I
age and when I'm ready todownsize, and I would like to
(10:25):
not have to make that decisionwithout my person.
Cheryl Fischer (10:29):
Yeah, like.
Marybeth MacKinnon (10:30):
I want to do that together and I don't want
him to have to.
You know, if he has to downsize, well, he'll probably just be
like, yeah, just take it.
I mean I don't know what he'll,what he'll think, but I mean, I
think he actually probably willbe in grief as well, I hope.
But it's just, it's hard, Likethey just, you know, you don't
know, you don't know what, whatI don't necessarily know what my
(10:51):
husband might want to bring aswe downsize.
Right, I might, I don't reallyknow what might be important to
him, right?
So I think making those kinds ofdecisions together and not
leaving them to your childrenand then also just not leaving a
gigantic house full of stufffor your kids to take care of,
like is like the biggestblessing that you can give your
(11:13):
family Like it really really is.
Cheryl Fischer (11:15):
I really, really agree with you and that is why
I wanted to do this episode,because this is a hard topic and
maybe I might normally not talkabout something kind of this
hard to think about on thisparticular podcast.
But also the way you describeit is a shift in thinking too.
It's a mindset shift.
(11:35):
And what you're saying is howdo I want to say this?
I think maybe because I've gonethrough this with my mom and I
think the way we might normallythink is that we've had this
whole big life and now we haveto give up all our stuff, like
that's awful, it's not fair, wefeel defeated, why can't we have
(11:58):
the stuff that we earned?
And you're flipping it andyou're saying let's do it now
and feel maybe better about theprocess and have the emotions be
easier to handle, kind of yeah,yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Marybeth MacKinnon (12:13):
And you know I have an aunt who is very much
in the thought of like gettingrid of stuff.
She has one child and she'slike I don't want to burden him
and she said I'm already goingthrough, like my pictures, and
if it's stuff that I don't evenknow, she's like I'm throwing it
away because I don't want himto have to to deal with that
stuff.
And so it's, it is a gift togive your family if you can do
(12:37):
it and also while you're stillhealthy and you know, some of
the stuff you just you don'tneed, like you just we have so
much stuff we don't need so much.
Cheryl Fischer (12:48):
Yeah, and you know, the funny thing is, as
I've been getting ready to talkto you about this, I have this
system that I use for my clothesin my closet, because I don't
have that big of a closet,because we actually downsized
five years ago.
But I'll turn the hangers likebackwards and then if a year has
gone by and I've not flipped itaround because I've worn it, I
get rid of it, and I'm reallyadamant about that.
(13:08):
But yet I have junk drawers andclosets full of who knows what.
So I'm not really applying thesystem everywhere and I guess I
need to be Well it's just stillit's little bits at a time.
Yeah Well, okay.
So then let's take in thatdirection.
Let's say that someone islistening and feeling like all
(13:30):
right, yeah, I have a lot ofstuff and maybe I should start
cleaning out.
Where do we even start you?
Marybeth MacKinnon (13:37):
just pick one place.
You just pick one thing.
You can't, I tell everybody,you cannot expect to declutter
or downsize your whole house ina weekend, right, you just can't
.
Like you're just settingyourself up for defeat.
So you start one thing at atime, like I, with my clients,
with my friends, with myfollowing on Instagram, like my
(13:59):
whole thing is what can wedeclutter in 30 minutes or less
in a day, or five minutes orless in a day?
What is something that we cantake a little bit of and get rid
of, and that is that seems somuch more manageable of and get
rid of, and that is that seemsso much more manageable.
And so if you have successdecluttering your junk drawer
and you can do that in a halfhour, then you're going to, when
(14:21):
you go into, like get your youknow your pen or your scissors
or your chapstick or whatever itis, you're like, oh my gosh.
Like look at this junk drawer,like it looks so nice.
I think I want to do my coffeemugs next.
And you just do little things.
You know, every day you dosomething because we're you know
we're so overwhelmed right now.
You know we're the sandwichgeneration.
(14:42):
We're dealing with our kids whoare in college or young adults.
We're dealing with our agingparents who are in assisted
living or nursing homes orhaving dementia or all the
things, and we're still tryingto work and make a living and
make our husbands happy and doall the things.
We don't have time to sitaround and do the entire closet
(15:06):
in a day, so little things.
Do your t-shirts, do an officedrawer, all those kinds of
things?
Do your stuff that needs to beshredded from your filing
cabinet?
Do you know that millennialsand Gen Zs they don't have
filing cabinets.
Cheryl Fischer (15:23):
They don't have paper.
I'm jealous of them honestly.
I know they don't keep paper.
Marybeth MacKinnon (15:28):
Everything is automated for them and for us
Gen Xers and baby boomers, wehave a really hard time wrapping
our heads around that.
Like getting rid of the paper.
Like we are, you know, ourpaper is like our parents'
tinfoil and baggies, like youknow how they wash their tinfoil
and baggies and they would, youknow, reuse.
Like for us, it's the paper Ijust have.
(15:51):
And even for me as an organizer, like you can see, I have a
four drawer file cabinet reallyhard for me to get rid of paper
and I'm I'm getting, I'm tryingto get my bills automated.
Cheryl Fischer (16:00):
I just don't really like to see all the
things.
So, and and for those of youlistening, let me just say in
the show notes I'm going to linkan episode I did back in the
previous, the previous versionof the podcast with a paper
organizer because this is theperfect thing If somebody's
thinking oh, that's my problem.
Marybeth MacKinnon (16:18):
And we need to go listen to that episode.
Cheryl Fischer (16:20):
Okay, so what if let's?
That's a great answer forstarting on our own house,
apartment, whatever.
What if it's someone elseprobably a parent, but someone
else and we want to help themget started?
How do you have any advice forthat?
Marybeth MacKinnon (16:37):
Because that's tricky, it is very tricky
and you have to start like.
You have to come at itobviously from a place of love
and a place of like service,like I want to help you.
Some people are going to bevery amenable to that and they
are going to they.
They will welcome that helpOther people.
It can be very difficult,especially if there's any kind
(17:00):
of hoarding disorder, anythinglike that.
That's a really a whole notherball game and in that situation
I would recommend hiring aprofessional like mental health
counselor to help with that.
Because even as a professionalorganizer, I don't typically
work with hoarders becausethey're they're not messy,
because they just, you know, hadtoo many things like that.
(17:23):
It's it's a mental healthcondition.
So you have to really beequipped to deal with somebody
like that.
But if it's like your parents,you have to literally come at
them just from a place of loveand a very, very deep place of
patience, because they, you knowthey're sometimes they're going
to feel like you're trying totake things away from them.
(17:45):
If you, if you come to them andI wish I would have known this,
you know, with my parents,because if I would have come to
them and said hey, I want youguys to make these decisions
together, like I don't want youto have to make this when dad's
gone or dad, I don't want you tohave to do this when mom's gone
.
I want you to do this togetherand I will help you.
And then also, sometimesbringing in an organizer,
(18:06):
bringing in a third party, canbe really, really helpful,
because there's a lot of familyemotions when it comes to this
stuff.
But when you have a third partythere, sometimes that third
party can really help bridgethat gap between the emotion and
what needs to happen.
And you have to just also, mysister and I were very we were
(18:32):
probably a little mean with mymom and when we were making her
get rid of stuff and pack up herhouse, like we just we were
like you're moving into a twobedroom apartment, you don't
need two 30 cup percolators,like you just don't anymore,
like you don't make that muchcoffee, and so we just you know
we had to give her some toughlove, yeah, but you have to just
(18:53):
sort of read the room and youhave to be able to assess, like,
what your relationship is withthat parent.
Sometimes you might even haveto step away and just let an
organizer come in and help dothe work.
But if you have parents that are, you know, I was talking to a
friend who I've actually alsobeen working with and her father
just had a heart episode andhis wife passed away a few years
(19:16):
ago.
He lives alone and he flat outrefuses help.
He refuses like any, and thisis like health help, like
in-home healthcare, like refuses.
So sometimes you have a parentlike that that just is going to
like they're, they're justthey're just gonna say no, and
you have to respect that.
You can't you really can't makethem do things that they're not
(19:39):
ready for or they don't want todo.
But you can find ways toencourage them.
You know you can.
Yeah, because that's that'sreally all you can do.
Cheryl Fischer (19:48):
I really love what you said about encouraging
them to make the decisiontogether while the two of them
are still together.
That, just it, speaks to me and, to be honest with you, my
parents are divorced.
They are not together, so thatwould not have worked in my
situation.
However, it's a caring way ofbringing it up that I would not
(20:10):
have thought of.
Marybeth MacKinnon (20:11):
Yeah, yeah, and it also comes down to too,
like I was.
I was really sort of like hit.
My mom passed away almost ayear ago and she had dementia
and she was in a nursing home atthe end for the last like nine
months of her life.
And I would go in to see her inher room and out of her 86
years of life, all she had leftwas a recliner, a nightstand, a
(20:34):
lamp and a few pictures on thewall.
That was it.
And because she had dementia,she didn't know that that was
all she had left.
But we collect all these things.
We think we have to have allthese things all the time around
us, particularly our parents,our generation, the boomers, the
(20:54):
Gen Xs because that's just sortof how we were brought up and
our parents it was thedepression, you know.
And thankfully our kids now areway more minimalist, like they
don't want stuff, like thattrend, that change is happening
and it's really awesome to see.
Like it's gonna probably put meout of business, but that's
(21:16):
okay, like that's okay.
You know, I read this articleone time titled our kids don't
want our brown furniture.
Oh, like gosh, you know, theyjust don't, they don't want
grandma's hutch.
I'm sorry, yeah, yeah.
So it's just, you know, we justall have too much.
We all have too much and wehave to get to the point where
(21:37):
we're okay with, like, lettingthat too much go and be okay
with having less.
Cheryl Fischer (21:44):
You know, one of the things I've heard people in
, let's say, gen Z say andobviously we're both.
This is very general, everyonemight be different but one of
the things I've heard them sayis well, we want experiences.
We don't need the stuff, wewant the experiences, because
then we have the memories and Ihave started to love that
perspective.
Marybeth MacKinnon (22:05):
Yeah, and that's a really great thought
too and that is also somethingthat you can go at with your
parents, with, or whoever you'rehelping through this process is
we want you to be able to enjoyyour retirement, to enjoy your
grandchildren, to be able to dothings with us, and why don't we
get you to a place where you'remore comfortable, where you
don't have so much stuff, andthen you don't have to worry
(22:28):
about cleaning the house all thetime or having the lawn mowed
or the garden or whatever it is,and then maybe you can come
visit us or we can go onvacation together or we can do
things that we love.
That are experiences, andyou're not going to be so tied
to your home and your stuff.
Cheryl Fischer (22:46):
Yeah.
You know, yeah, and I think, asyou said, some people will
really get it and will beabsolutely open to doing it, and
other people are not going toget it and are going to
absolutely not be open to doingthis and are going to feel like
we're trying to take their stuffaway and we have to be made,
and then that's really hard foreverybody, because people are
(23:16):
forced to move into a situationthat they never wanted to do and
then a lot of times they can'teven make those decisions.
Marybeth MacKinnon (23:22):
You know, and that's even something that
kids can talk to their parentsabout, like, do you want to have
something happen and have tomove into assisted living and
not even be able to come back toyour house and figure out what
you want to take with you?
Right, you know, because thathappens a lot.
Yeah, happened to my mom.
Cheryl Fischer (23:38):
Okay, I'm going to brighten it up again, yeah.
Marybeth MacKinnon (23:43):
Stop talking about depressing things.
Cheryl Fischer (23:46):
Important but also difficult, and that's fair.
So one of my I always joke thatone of my love languages is
pictures, and that's not reallya love language, but it's still
like I love my pictures, I lovehaving pictures.
I have them on the wall in thestairway, all over whatever
phone.
Of course, let's say that westart going through our pictures
(24:08):
and we say we want to clean out.
Do you, do you have some adviceon that?
Because to me, like I havealbum upon album upon album and
boxes and my mom has slides andyou know it's all kinds of stuff
, okay so well, let's talk aboutour photos first.
Marybeth MacKinnon (24:23):
okay, because again, this is where our
kids are.
Have the the niceness theydon't have to deal with this.
All their pictures are on theirphones and if they want them,
they will print them, butthey're not like us who you had
to send the film off to theclerk or whoever and get doubles
.
So you had two pictures ofeverything.
(24:44):
Because, oh, my goodness, whatif we don't?
What if we lose one, like, yes,the doubles, we have doubles of
everything, right?
So what I am doing right now formyself with my photos because,
again, I'm just like you, I havea lot of photo albums of
pictures, because when I gotthose pictures back, I would
take the half and I would juststick them in my album.
(25:06):
And I've started going throughall of those photo albums and
I'll do it just when I'm sittingdown and watching tv at night,
like just hanging out, and I gothrough them.
If there are any pictures inthose albums that are like
blurry because, yes, I saved theblurry ones of, like the back
of someone's head.
If they're people, I don't evenknow who they are.
(25:27):
If they're, uh, suns my dad hadabout 700 metric tons of sunset
photos like vacation photosfrom you know, like landscape
picture.
So I had so many of those andsome of them I will keep.
But for the most part I've beengoing through my photo albums
(25:47):
and pulling out bad pictures,pictures that I don't know,
people, pictures that are justlike why is that there?
And throwing them away.
As a starting place, I used tobe a scrapbooker so I did
scrapbooks for my family.
I have one kid up to eighthgrade and one kid up to sixth
grade and they actually lovetheir scrapbooks.
(26:09):
I kind of want to finish themthrough high school.
That may be a retirement job, Idon't know.
But so I still have somepictures that I printed out that
I've saved, that I'm going todo that for.
But the stuff from like me whenI was like single and stupid
not not all of those things needto be saved.
Like they're still in photoalbums, but like my kids aren't
(26:30):
going to care, like they're justthey're not going to want any
of those.
So I think it's just.
You know you can keep them foryourself, but you can tell your
kids you have permission to getrid of these when I'm gone.
Like, if you still like themand enjoy looking at them.
Keep the, keep the good ones,just go through and sort them,
sort them out.
If you have pictures of likefamily, like your parents, like
(26:50):
your, like my mom, when I had togo through her stuff, I threw
away every single picture ofsomeone I did not know she had.
She was like she had so manypictures, black and whites, of
like stuff from her childhoodstuff from, I mean, and her.
She had a large family but herclosest sister had passed away.
I knew a lot of the other.
(27:11):
Her other sisters wouldn't knowwho the people were and I
didn't want to burden them withthe stuff.
So I looked at my sister and Iwas like, is it okay if I throw
these away?
And she was like, yep, so we,just we got rid of a lot, a lot
of stuff.
There are a couple of differentcompanies that will do
digitization services.
So if you do have some specialold photographs, slides,
(27:34):
videotapes, you can get themdigitized, which is what I did
with all of our like home videos.
Okay, because I, you know again, like with our kids, we had
everything on the video camera.
Yeah, you know we weren't ableto just record with our phone.
So I had all these great videosof my kids when they were
babies but I never watched thembecause it was there's too much
rigmarole to hook it up andwatch it.
(27:55):
But now I have them on mycomputer and it's amazing.
I love it.
Cheryl Fischer (27:58):
That is amazing and I think I need to do that.
Yeah, yeah, you know what?
There's something aboutpictures for me and I'm betting
I'm not the only one that if Ithrow it away, I feel guilty,
like I like I'm throwing awaythe person or something.
I don't know what it is.
So I appreciate you giving usthe permission.
Marybeth MacKinnon (28:16):
Yeah, you definitely have permission to
throw it away.
Yeah, you, absolutely.
I mean it is.
Though, and here's also the waythat I think about it I just I
just think, like when I'm goneand my kids are like I mean
there might be some picturesthat they laugh at, but like
when they're going through likethat stuff, like I mean there
might be some pictures that theylaugh at, but like when they're
going through like that stuff,like is that really something
(28:37):
that I want them to have tospend time on and figure out if
it's important?
Like I don't want to burdenthem with it.
Like I don't want them to have agarage filled with my photo
albums in their house.
Like I don't want to add totheir clutter.
Like that is not a gift that Iwant to give them at all.
Like I don't want to add totheir clutter.
Like that is not a gift that Iwant to give them at all.
Like, do I want to give themthe scrapbooks that I made for
(28:59):
them?
Sure, but I'm not even surethey want.
They each have like one bin ofpapers from preschool and, like
you know, the turkey hand youknow from preschool.
Like they each have one bin ofstuff, like in our storage room
upstairs.
I'm not even sure they're goingto want those.
I'm boys, so it's that's.
I think is sometimes, you know,a different sentimentality than
(29:22):
girls.
But I'm fairly certain thatthey don't even know they're
there.
And if I were to pull them outand be like, do you want these?
They'd probably be like no.
Cheryl Fischer (29:31):
Yeah, well, I have a boy and a girl and I
suspect they both might feelthat way.
She would probably want to lookat it, but I don't know if
she'd want to take it.
Yeah.
Marybeth MacKinnon (29:43):
Yeah, exactly, and I have one, my
youngest.
He still loves looking at hiselementary school yearbooks.
He's a little bit moresentimental, but yeah, they just
, they just don't have anattachment to stuff like we do.
Cheryl Fischer (29:57):
Yeah.
Marybeth MacKinnon (29:58):
Yeah.
Cheryl Fischer (29:58):
You know, yeah, yeah.
Marybeth MacKinnon (30:00):
And then I also and for my other big hot
tip for digital photos, right,because we all have a gazillion
of them on our phone.
I think right now I have 48,000pictures or something on my
phone and like 10,000 videosfrom concerts.
I mean, it's ridiculous is andI don't do this every day, but
when I think about it I do, andsomeone actually posted this on
(30:23):
Instagram and I thought it was agenius idea Put a reminder in
your phone every day at the sametime, so it could be like eight
o'clock at night, like whatevertime it is when you generally
are not doing anything, whereyou're just sort of chilling out
.
At that time, at eight o'clockat night, you're going to go
through your phone or youriCloud or wherever your photos
are, and you're going to go backas far as you have them in the
(30:44):
cloud every day on that day.
So my cloud started in 2013.
So you go back to 2013, onMarch 10th, and 2013, 2014,
2015,.
You look at your photos forthat day and you delete anything
that is like a bad photo.
You know, I have so manypictures of my kids playing
hockey and lacrosse.
(31:04):
I have so many screenshots andmemes and just stuff.
So you do it every day.
So that's 12 years now for meeach day, but some years I
didn't take pictures on March10th, so I won't have any photos
.
But if you do that, startingtoday on March 10th, by March
10th of 2026, you're not goingto have to do it again.
Amazing, you're going to haveit all.
(31:26):
Your iCloud storage is going tojust like dwindle every single
day.
So I don't do it every day.
I try to do it, you know asoften as I think about it, but I
thought that was like the besttip on dealing with digital
photos.
Cheryl Fischer (31:40):
Wow, yeah, okay, and if you're listening, I know
you can't see me, but my jawwas hanging open as Mary Beth
was saying that.
Marybeth MacKinnon (31:49):
Yep, yeah, it was that.
I just thought that was genius.
I can't remember who it was,who, who?
I saw say that on Instagram.
Cheryl Fischer (31:55):
And that just kind of maybe it brings us back
in a nice little wrap up here.
It brings us back to what youwere saying, where if we can do
this in small steps, then wedon't get overwhelmed, because
when we get overwhelmed, that'swhen the voice in our head
starts going this is too much,it's too hard.
I don't want to, I'm just goingto make a mess.
(32:16):
If we can avoid all that,better, better by far?
Marybeth MacKinnon (32:20):
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely, because
it and I will say too, for um, Ilive with, like, everyone in my
family except for me has ADHDin my house, so that it and if
you know that you'reneurodivergent or you have any
issues with that, that that's awhole nother level of um, of
like giving yourself grace,because, um, I have many clients
(32:41):
who have ADHD and struggle withclutter, and that is also
that's a brain issue.
So, having putting things inplace that are going to make it
easier for you to go throughyour day, you know just things
that are as simple as, like, Ihave a hook in my front room to
hang keys on Little things oforganization and decluttering
(33:03):
that are going to be triggers tohelp you remember to do things,
and so I think that that's alsoreally important to give
yourself grace if you'restruggling with that and know
that you just have a little bitof an extra hill to climb, but
it's not impossible.
And if you set up systems, ifyou have really good systems in
place, you know things, justlike making your bed in the
(33:24):
morning.
You know doing little things,don't you know, when you get
ready for bed at night, like,don't leave your clothes on the
floor in your closet.
Like put them you know ifyou're, if you're not going to
put them in the laundry.
Like hang them back up again.
Like just making little stepsevery day, because if you do it
every day then it doesn't buildup, it's just taking little
(33:45):
bitty steps.
Doing little bitty differentthings can really make just such
a huge difference.
Cheryl Fischer (33:50):
I love that Going through your mail when it
comes.
Marybeth MacKinnon (33:53):
You know, don't, don't put your mail in a
pile, go through it immediatelywhen you pick it up out of the
mailbox.
Cheryl Fischer (33:58):
Yes, I'm trying to get better at that and it
does help, absolutely does help,yeah, okay, so where, let's say
, someone is intrigued, theymight be in the DC area, they
might be interested in workingwith you, or they just want to
find you and learn from youonline.
Where can they do that?
How can they?
Marybeth MacKinnon (34:13):
do that, so they can find me on Instagram at
Marybeth Mackinnon.
It's M-A-C-K-I-N-N-O-N.
Yeah, perfect, so Instagram iswhere I am most.
I do have a TikTok, but it'sjust basically everything that I
put on Instagram.
Cheryl Fischer (34:28):
So perfect and same.
All right, I will make surethat's in the show notes.
Marybeth MacKinnon (34:32):
Awesome, and I do, do, I do, do I do
decluttering challenges, allkinds of different things on my
Instagram, and I have a privatecommunity on Facebook as well.
If people are interested injoining that.
Cheryl Fischer (34:43):
All right, then my last question for you.
Yes, everyone who has beenlistening has been learning, and
they're going to come back tothis episode, but what is the
one thing that they shouldreally remember, that they can
hold in their brain withouthaving to maybe listen back
immediately?
What's the OMG?
I have to remember this onething.
Marybeth MacKinnon (35:04):
I think I thought about this and I think
that the thing is give yourselfgrace.
Don't punish yourself for theway your house looks or the way
your closet looks.
Give yourself grace.
We are all busy.
We all have busy lives.
We are all doing a millionthings.
Some of us have the organizinggene, some of us have the
(35:25):
organizing gene, some of usdon't, and that's okay.
But you have to be patient withyourself.
You're never going toaccomplish anything.
You're never going to be ableto like climb that mountain if
you are beating yourself up thatyou can't climb the mountain.
You just like.
You have to be able to likelook at it and love yourself,
love your home and want it tojust be a little bit better.
(35:48):
It doesn't have to be perfect.
There's too much perfectionism.
I watch all those videos onInstagram of people restocking
their refrigerator and I want toreach through my phone and
punch them in the face becausethat's not real life.
Nobody has a refrigerator likethat.
Like it drives me literallycrazy.
Like where do you put yourleftovers?
Cheryl Fischer (36:11):
I hear you.
Marybeth MacKinnon (36:12):
Like it is, just it's.
I mean, what is the presentover?
Perfect, I think, is a bookthat I was bought and was
supposed to read at some point,but literally like it does not
have to be perfect, it justneeds to be a little bit better.
No, give yourself grace.
Cheryl Fischer (36:25):
I love it Well, mary Beth.
Thank you so much.
This has been a greatconversation.
You are so welcome.
It's my pleasure.
Marybeth MacKinnon (36:31):
Thanks for having me.
Cheryl Fischer (36:32):
Oh, my goodness, what a great OMG moment.
And I promise I did not tellMary Beth ahead of time to give
us an OMG moment.
That would be about our mindsetabout this whole subject.
She did it anyway.
Be gentle with yourself, bekind with yourself.
We can't move forward if we'reconstantly beating ourselves up.
(36:56):
That just really deserved to berepeated again.
Thank you for that, mary Beth.
Now in the show notes I willhave Mary Beth's Instagram you
definitely want to find her andI will also have a link for my
free story cycle resource tohelp you start to recognize,
(37:17):
especially in some of thesedifficult situations, what is
the emotion that you're feelingright now and what is going on
in your head behind the scenesthat's creating that emotion,
because recognizing it isabsolutely the powerful first
step that you can take to startmaybe switching your perspective
(37:38):
, switching your mindset aboutsome of these things that are
difficult to deal with in life.
And make sure that you hit thefollow button, because on our
next episode, we're going to betalking about regret, nostalgia
or gratitude, and we're going totalk about the fact that we get
a choice of how we look atthings from our past and,
(38:01):
depending on how we make thatchoice.
It really affects our qualityof life.
Now I'll see you then.
In the meantime, let's keepcreating confidence and success,
one thought at a time.
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