053 - If only our chief of police was an avid cyclist. Oh wait, he is! (Chad Kasmar, Tucson Chief of Police) - Mountain Cog

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mike (00:10):
So the police just came to my door and said that my dog
was chasing a kid on his bike.
I just closed the door.
My dog doesn't even have a bike, so thank you.
So the reason I brought thatjoke into the mix here was

(00:31):
because we have a very specialguest from the police department
, in fact the chief of thepolice department, chief Chad
Casmer.
Thanks for coming in, brother.

Chad Kasmar (00:42):
Oh, thanks for having me.

Mike (00:43):
Yeah, this is great.
I wanted to start off with abrief introduction for our guest
today, if that's okay.

Josh (00:49):
Go for it.

Mike (00:49):
Brad.
Okay, all right.
So this was from an ArizonaDaily Star article from Kate
Lynch-Mitt.
This is from December 27th 2021.
And it's just a few paragraphsof it.
So it says Casmer grew up inTucson and is a graduate of
Amphitheater High School and theUniversity of Arizona.
He began working at TPD TucsonPolice Department in 2000 and

(01:11):
spent his seven years as anofficer on assignments,
including patrol in the MidtownDivision, bicycle patrol, solo
motor patrol in OperationsDivision South and on a hostage
crisis team.
He was promoted to Sergeant in2007 and Lieutenant in 2011,
taking command at TPD's Officeof Internal Affairs and

(01:32):
Operations Division West.
He worked as a captain from2014 through 2016, serving as
chief of staff to the then chief, robert Villesignore, and as
patrol division captain forOperations Division East.
When Magnus was retired, washired as TPD's chief in January
2016, he promoted Casmer tochief deputy, a position he held

(01:54):
until January 2021.
When he was tapped by citymanager Mike Ortega to serve as
interim director of the PublicSafety Communications Department
, there, casmer led the chargeto consolidate fire and police
operations within the 911 Center, restructured the department
and leadership team andincreased staffing levels.
He said that experience gavehim a fresh perspective and then

(02:17):
, shortly thereafter, chief ofpolice.

Yeah, welcome, thank you.
Thanks for having me.

Josh (02:22):
Can you start by saying your last name for me?

Yeah, casmar, casmar, okay yeah.

Josh (02:27):
Cause, like I got this Casmer from Pinkbikes.
You ever watch Pinkbikes?

Yeah, oh yeah.

Mike (02:33):
So I have that one.
I like their videos.
Make sure I'm not screwing uphere.
Yeah, they're so good.

Josh (02:37):
Well, hey, man, I appreciate you coming.
It's Sunday afternoon on theMCP here.
I appreciate you coming out andspending a little time with us.
I'd love to start by just kindof like hearing about how you
got started in cycling and likewhat's your relationship with
the bike.

Yeah, so I fell in love with.
I have a picture on my phone ofmy dad, who was a big guy, six,
five, hunched over, you know,helping me on my bike with
tricycle.
You know wheels, it was blueand yellow and you know probably
some Kmart special or something.
But you know I fell in lovewith a cycling as a young boy
and it was freedom and you know,back then, you know you, you

(03:12):
checked in with your parents inthe morning and you said I'll be
back for lunch and you weregone.

Mike (03:16):
So I was still the street lights, yeah.

And in a way to connect in a way to, you know,
get a couple miles across town.
So I, you know, much like a lotof people in our community, I
grew up in a divorced family andthere were pros and cons to
that.
When I was two, my parentsseparated and for a variety of
reasons and challenges, like,like again, most folks here in
our community, and so the bikewas just a sense of freedom,
whether I was at my mom's houseor at my dad's house on the

(03:39):
weekends, and that really neverstopped.
With that sense of freedom.
And as an adult, through a 23year career in public safety,
it's become much more than thatand there's a lot of, you know,
space in between those.
You know being a two or threeyear old to you know, being 22
and starting a career in publicsafety and now having been doing

(04:00):
that for 23 years.
But now it's much more.
It's my mental health andwellness.
I'm not.
I'm not healthy mentally orphysically If I don't spend
enough time on my bike.
Staff at work doesn't like itwhen I'm not riding my bike and
my kids don't like it either.
So that's a win-win foreverybody.

Josh (04:16):
Yeah, hey, so.
So what's your favorite styleof riding these days?

You know I love both.
In fact, we were just talking,so I this.

Josh (04:27):
Wait, there's only two.

Yeah, no, there's a lot.
I love it all the problem youknow, as we've gotten older,
gravity you know you have adeeper appreciation for gravity
and crashing and we don't healas quick, as we used to.
But for sure, I live off of nearriver and Lackanyatta a part of
town, so I do a lot of my roadcycling north, where I'm
grabbing the loop and heading upto Mount lemon, or I like to

(04:49):
hit the BR ride on Saturdays.
Had spent a long time since Iwas doing the shoot out or the
old man shoot out.
I love that ride too, so I likelet's start with road cycling.
What I love about road cycling,and and I started I got my
first road bike as a freshman incollege.
Ralph over at farewell sold memy first carbon bike and my dad
thought he was going to have totake a mortgage out to pay for
that carbon track and it wasprobably an entry level one.

(05:11):
But it was big money back then.
I mean more than my dirt bikeshad cost.
And I grew up racing dirt bikesthrough high school and even
early college.
But I got.
I wanted to get serious aboutEnduro racing and cross country.
So I met up with ScottBlanchard from pyramid coaching
back in the day and he was likehey, bud, you're going to have
to get a road bike, and littledid I know you'd spend 80% of

(05:31):
your time on a road biketraining for mountain biking.
So I had the skill ridingskills from racing dirt bikes
for so many years, but I didn'thave the cardio, and so that's
what was tough to come by and,as we all know, it's cumulative.
So now I've been I've beenserious on and off, serious
cyclists for geez you know sincemy freshman year of college.
So it's, it's, that's a 27years ago, and so I've got quite

(05:53):
the base right.
So I can, I can, I can go outcold and suffer with the best of
them.
I've got a pretty good hurtlocker, like this morning when I
was out on Mount Lemon and Igot it right in much the last
few weeks.
But it was beautiful sunrisewatching up and then I got a
buddy getting ready to go out totwo buddies getting ready to go
race Leadville.

Josh (06:10):
Yeah, we're actually going out to support one of the guys
Outstanding.

Yeah, I raced in 2011.
I think it was.

Josh (06:15):
You saw that.

And so, fortunately for me, I got it one and done
and got that big belt buckle andhaven't had to go back because
it's a it's a part time job totrain for that race.
It's 20 hours a week on thebike and Scott had us on a.
There were three other policeofficers that we did it together
, four of us, and we were riding, you know, 20 hours a week, 200
, 250 miles a week and we weredoing back to back.

(06:38):
So we would do like a MountLemon Epic on a on a Friday,
which is, if you've never donethat as you started on an Oracle
on a mountain bike and you ridenorth up to the town of Oracle,
up the backside, down the front, back to an Oracle.
It's about 108 miles and thenyou do the shootout on Saturday
that's called the the MountLemon Epic Mount Lemon.

Mike (06:57):
Epic.
How many miles is that?

It's 108 miles and it's not bad until you get into
the summer.
What's your training right nowin the summer for Leadville?
And so the you're just.
You know, I it was the I'lltell you I don't know if you
want to jump into that story howthat all happened.

Mike (07:11):
Yeah, please do kind of jump all around.
So yeah, yeah.

So I was another cover surgeon at the time, and
let's see, so my, my, my oldestson, chase, would have been
about seven, eight years old atthe time, and we had just had
her second son and I I I justtested for a lieutenant and I
decided okay, I've had enoughfun assignments, I need to start
being home more at night and onthe weekends, and and so I

(07:35):
decided to put the family first.
So my phone rang I was still inundercover squad and and my, my
buddy, mark, called me and saidhey man, there's this race
called Leadville and it's alottery and we probably won't
get in, but I need your creditcard number.
I'm sorry.

Mike (07:48):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm
sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry,I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

I would have loved to have charged in, got the
letter, but I've had nolate-night training that she and
I при that there was so mucheffort between the team or the
squad and the girls from theforces.

Josh (08:08):
Yeah, of course we waited until it's over and we got our
class is the only thing weneeded.

Mike (08:10):
But the thing is that the seven can already花audience
recognition yeah.

Otherwise I would have had to go back to I was
doing research on.
But I'm gonna do somethingrelated to EdgePoint or if
there's someone I had a secondchance at, I'm gonna say a
second you can do that.
I could.
You can do that at that point,because I think we probably
should not check out it out ordo private research to her, but
we'll talk about that in amoment at the end.
11 years and together about 14.
So she asked for this crazylife.

(08:32):
She knew what she was gettinginto, but she was super cool
about it.
But she was like, do you reallythink this is a good time?
Because she knew it wasn't justthe $400 entry fee, it was a
new bike, it was training withScott again for six months and
her not seeing me, or those dayswhere you're doing those 100
plus mile rides and this heatand then you're smoked the rest
of the day If you're no good toanyone.

(08:52):
You're basically like Bob Dylan.
So she was a trooper and endedit up being, you know, like a
lot of things in life, the raceis the race which you have zero
control over that day, with theweather, a mechanical, you know.
You were there with 2,000people and it is the coolest,
most chaotic race I've ever beeninvolved with, and Lifetime

(09:13):
Fitness puts on amazing events.
If your listenership hasn'tdone one, you should sign up for
one Super professional.
But the thing about it thatyear was, if you were a rookie
racer in that series and youdidn't qualify, you have to
start in the back.
Yeah, in the back row and it wasmayhem, you know.
I thought, oh, it's anendurance race, everybody's
going to start out pretty chilland he's into it.

(09:36):
I was redlined for the firsthour like a sprint and BAA race.
I mean it was nuts Just to getto the first hill where you
don't.
If you're not there fast enough, you have to walk.

Josh (09:46):
You're stuck.

And I didn't want to have to walk.
But you know what turned outinto a funny story of her being
super pissed at me, like a lotof crazy things I've done and
continue to do, which I think iswhat makes our marriage fun.
It turned out into the mostepic training journey.
The guy that I one of the guysthat I race with they're all

(10:07):
great guys, but one of themspecifically, mark Fuller, is a
retired Tucson Police DepartmentSergeant.
His wife actually trained mewhen I was a brand new sergeant
and that's how I met them, kerryFuller, and then became we joke
now that Mark I was Kerry'sfriend first and then Mark found
me and stole me from Kerry.
But Mark and I have donethousands and thousands and
thousands of miles together andhe's just been like a great

(10:32):
older brother type role modelfor me and just somebody to
bounce things off of.
And hell I should pay I jokewith him.
I should pay him counselingservices because I'm a talker
and he's a good listener.

Mike (10:42):
So we have this amazing relationship.

But the journey, the race, was a big deal and it
was fun that day.
But when I look back on it itwas more about the journey to
get there.
It was a sacrifice my familymade.
It was the bonding that Markand I and Jim and our buddy
Brandon did, and the teasing andcamaraderie and just the build
up to it is the big deal and Ithink that's what a lot of
people don't get, especiallylike look, if you're a young

(11:07):
athlete and you're training tobe pro, that's great and I hope
that they could even figure outit's you know, it's a journey,
you know, and to enjoy that soit doesn't become, you know, you
don't want you don't have todread putting your leg over your
bike.
That's such a sad thing but itwas.
It was.
It was just such an honor totrain with my buddies and then

(11:27):
go do that event.
And then it happened to bereally cool that the event
worked out well and I made mymarks that day and worked
through a lot of suffering,2011,.

Josh (11:35):
So 2009 was Lance, 2010,.
Race Against the Sky came out2010, levi Leipheimer won, and
then it comes into 2011.
That I mean that race had neverbeen bigger.
At that point it had just beenjust a circus.

It was a circus and I, mark's wife Carrie, took the
perfect photo of us.
Where you're, you know, there'sjust imagine 2000 people plus
all their support.
So it's and you're in thislittle mining town and that's
really what I don't know if alot of people know that race
really saved that town.

Josh (12:08):
It's about yeah, bringing tourism.

And so it's.
It's, you know, it's super cool, it's like you can't get into a
restaurant, it's organizedmayhem.
But we were leaning up againstthe wall just hanging out and
Carrie snapped this photo that Ihave in my office and it it it
damaged.
All four of us are verydifferent people and different
personalities in this moment intime and this picture captured,
like all of our personalities atthat moment.
Oh, that's cool, who wasworried, who was having fun.

Josh (12:32):
you know, you can see it which one were you at?

No, I'm a race day guy.
I've always done, you know,even back to you know I used to
ride dirt bikes.
Dirt bikes kept me out of a lotof trouble.
That was the tool that my dadleveraged over me to behave.
Half my half my friends went toprison and half my friends
became cops.
And I probably would have beenprison if it weren't for dirt
bikes.

Mike (12:56):
So your, so your dad, like , encouraged and helped out with
the dirt bikes.

Oh, yeah, he never bought me like and he could
afford it.
He never bought me the latestand greatest, you know.
He made me work for it.
He made me do all the thewrenching on the bikes.
So that's where I learned howto wrench on things, which
turned into then, you know,later in life, me taking auto
body and auto shop and highschool and turn it into me.
You know remodeling houses andflipping houses and to this day,
you know, in fact, my, myoldest son and I we have a 900

(13:22):
square foot shop in our backyardwere wrenching on on on his
truck and then I was, you know,tinkering with.
You know a couple of otherthings.
I just picked up a I'm an oldtruck guy, so I just picked up a
75 Ford F 100 custom super cat.
Oh, wow, that I'm going to be,you know, restoring and tricking
out.

Josh (13:39):
How about a shop?
Or how about a?
Shapes it in?

It is like a barn, find it.
It was an older gentleman who agrandfather who had just gone
through the motor just put brandnew beef good rich, all trains
on it and then got sick and theyparked it and it's been sitting
there 23 years.
No way, and so his familyfinally got to the point like,
okay, sentimental value, like wegot to move this thing.
But it was up in Phoenix, justbacon in the sun.
So it's got a perfect patina.

(14:03):
It's the vineyard gold model.
Oh wow, yeah, it's super cool.
So I've got a 75 short bedorange, a big block, 460, you
know, big, nasty, motor, slammedstreet truck.
I've got a 94 Ford Explorer, afour wheel drive that my son and
I during COVID my oldest sonand I chased it a auto shop in
the house at the shop since hecouldn't have it at school Cool,

(14:25):
and we did a full.
It was, like you know, $500auction car that we bought and
took the thing you know thebasically frame, frame off,
restoration on it, build it intoa little rock crawler, and then
he moved on to a Ford Mustang.
So I took the Explorer back.
My little guy, deegan, is 13,says that's going to be his
first car.
So yeah, we like to tinker andstay busy.

Mike (14:45):
So your dad like there was a method to it, he knew what he
was doing when he when hebotched, you know, to get the
latest and greatest made youwork on the bikes, and now
you're passing that along toyour kids.
That's really cool.

Yeah, I definitely spoil.
You know, we, this newgeneration of kid, I think we
all you know it's, it'sgenerational right.
So our kids have a little biteasier lives probably than we
did with our, our parents, and Ithink that that's every
parent's aspiration to maketheir kids lives better and be a
little more a better parentthan they were, you know.

Josh (15:13):
Are we making them soft, though?
That's the best.

Yes, I think we are , and so I certainly recognize
that.
But it's so hard.
You know your kids are great.
You don't want them to not havethings.

Mike (15:23):
Yeah, it is tough, All right.
So you, speaking of kids, youmentioned that your kids are
very like good on bike.
And then you know our kids aregood on bikes as well.
They don't try it, they justthey're good at it.
So you grew up on the dirt bike.
In the last recording, wereleased Last podcast we put out
yeah, was air awareness.
Yeah, so I'm guessing youprobably gained air awareness as

(15:45):
a youngster on the on themotocross.

Yeah, I did they all.
My buddy Paul who, who was the,the creator and owner of oral
value bikes he jokes with melike that you know, I never.
I'm never on the ground.
So if I see a rock and I canjump and then turn you know, 30,
40 degrees in the air and landa different, you know way, those
guys three rocks, then sothat's what I'm Two motor whips
and all that with the mountainbike?
Yeah.

Mike (16:07):
Yeah, that's really cool.
So then, how did you go fromthe dirt bike scene, where you,
you know, throttle, no pedaling,to wanting to do the mountain
bike?
You crash a lot Okay, so thatwas okay.

Yeah, in fact I remember my one of my first
dates with my wife.
My wife done, I was like, okay,I got to get this training
right in and so I went out tostar pass and there was this.
You know, this is back whenthere were barely houses on the
on the kind of West End out onthe back?

Josh (16:33):
Yeah, for sure.

And there was this double out there and I thought
I'm going to hit that doubletoday.
And you know, of course Ididn't, I didn't, I didn't scope
it out or do anything and Icased that thing and about took
half my face off and showed upto the first date with the
hamburger face Well, the firstdate.
Yeah, so again I go back to.
She knew what she was gettingin herself.

Mike (16:48):
Yeah, right from.
The shop.

She asked for this crazy life.
So you know, the biggest thingis is learning that you just
can't blip your throttle to getyou out of trouble and you, you
have to carry that momentum.
So it is different, but it issimilar.
It is similar as well.
And then there's clips.
Right, and I, I, I love clips.

Josh (17:06):
So I took to, I took to clipless pedals pretty quick and
really attached Still are youstill riding them, even in the
mountain bike?
Oh yeah, really yeah.

Yeah, so much more efficient to push and pull Like
it feels very foreign to me if Itry to ride a bike without it
and I'm you know we, we doSedona every year and you know
full commitment on some prettynasty stuff.

Josh (17:22):
Yeah, highline, and all that.

Yeah, you can get out.
I mean, when you've been ridinglong enough and you need to get
out of those clips, you get out, you get good at it.

Mike (17:28):
You do All right.
So, um, you mentioned thetraining and the road bikes and
that, and then it's, it's funnyif you, you know Google chief's
name in mountain bikes, you knowyou've got the Leadville, you
know the, that's still there,right.
And then also, um, veryimpressive, the two-day Tucson,
I think one year, 13th place.

Last year.
Yeah, I did the 66.
Um, I got.
I will say I got lucky.
You know again, road cycling isa.
You know, cycling is a chessgame and it's about being
strategic and where you positionyourself.
I had not been riding much andsomebody's got me, um, some
local business community wantedme to do the prologue, which I
was able to do, and you know,super epic, uh.
And then I thought, yeah, I'mgoing to do the 66 too, and so

(18:07):
what happened was, um three ofthe larger teams had had guys
that went off in the first twominutes, and so that really kept
all of the work really moderatethrough the, so nobody, nobody
could really go great.
I mean, there were, there wereone offs, and you know small
teams that kept trying to pushthe pace, but your bike ranch
and your natural grocers and acouple of other big teams, um,

(18:31):
christian cycling, pull it allback.
They know, they just theywouldn't do the work they would.
They were keeping it at acertain pace.
So I had actually ended updoing a fair amount of work, um,
just to just to keep the tempofun, and um, I just happened to
be in the right place at theright time and thought I had a
little left in the tank tosuffer.
Uh, you know what the funny part, though, was.
You know how that finished wasa different spot this year right
by the police station.

(18:51):
I've silly me.
I thought when we went aroundthe corner, um, I can't remember
, was it um not church conventor something?
And and I thought, as soon aswe hit the corner, it's going to
be the finish line.
So I was like I was tapped bythe time we made it.

Josh (19:05):
It's like another 400 yards or something.
It was another 40 yards, yeah.

So I lost a few spots in that last 40.

Josh (19:11):
So I was like what, what what hey reconciles something
for me, okay, so, so I'm hearingabout you know, please, chief
of police.

Yeah.

Josh (19:19):
I'm hearing you know illustrious uh career with with
the police department there.
I'm hearing about you workingon cars and flipping houses and
and mountain biking and andmotocross and I'm trying to
reconcile the fine arts degree.

Yeah, help me understand that.
Yeah, so, um, you're not theonly one, so it's funny.
When I was in college, um, Icertainly I knew I wanted to do
something.
So my original plan was to doofficer candidate school for the
Marine Corps, rotc, and thenonce I got out of college, but
while getting a fine arts degree, and then once I got out of

(19:53):
college, then, I'm sorry,college, then you know, marine
Corps, then I wanted to do DA orFBI or do some.
Yeah, it was really looking atthe undercover style work was
what's a draw to me.
So, um, my sophomore year, sowhat?
So let me even backtrack aminute because it kind of all
intertwines here.
So in 1996, I graduated fromAFI high school and I thought

(20:14):
I'm going to be a lifeguardSounds like a cool job, right
and I was like you know, otheryoung people and girls and
bathing suits and swim with kidsall day, like I'm in you know,
and it was like 675 and I waslike that's amazing.

Josh (20:26):
Good money, that's a good job.

A lot of lifeguards back then were swimmers.
Right, they were on the swimteam and all that stuff.
So I lived, actually went tohigh school in San Diego for
three and a half years becausemy stepdad had gotten a job when
I graduated from eighth gradeand so the family said, hey, do
you want to stay in Tucson or doyou want to go to San Diego?
And I was like dad, I'll beback in the summers.
So first year it was actually Ionly spent one summer in San

(20:50):
Diego.
So my stepdad and I, the summerbefore my freshman year of high
school, went out to San Diegoand Mission Valley together.

Josh (20:57):
Yeah.

And you know you as a parent.
You look back and you think,like what the hell are my
parents thinking?
So my stepdad would drop me offat Mission Beach every day at
like 6am and pick me up at 6pm.
Nice, and I'm still alive today, which is a miracle.

Mike (21:10):
Yes.

And but the beautiful part of that right.
My life was different back thenas I learned how to surf in the
summer and surf became a bigpassion.
But every summer beyond that Icame back and spend it with my
dad and saw all my high, all myschool buddies and all that
stuff.
So, so, anyhow, fast forward.
I thought, well, if I was asurfer, I cannot drown in the
ocean, I can certainly swim in apool.
So I, I, I took all the tests,I passed.

(21:33):
So that that's when I actuallymet.
My wife was going to CatalinaMagnet here off of Pima and she
was going to be.
It was a summer before seniorof high school.
We had a long time boyfriend.
Boyfriend I was getting readyto go to college, so she was
cute and flirted with her, allthat good stuff, but I wasn't
looking to settle down and shewas in relationship.
So, fast forward.
We worked together at AmphiHigh School that summer, then

(21:56):
the next summer we also workedtogether and then what happened
was this is pre-sale phone, soit dates all of us right.
I wish we still had those days.

Mike (22:04):
Pre-sale phone Likewise.

And I was going up for officer can at school,
testing up to Phoenix, so Icalled her parents.

Josh (22:10):
This is for the Marine Corps, for the Marine Corps.

It was a sophomore year of college at U of A, so I
call her parents and I'm like,hey, I worked with your daughter
.
Could I get her number?
Because she was going up to ASUas a freshman and I joke with
people like the biggest.
The best thing the city evergave me was opportunity to meet
my wife, even as chief of police, and this is director then one
center.
But I also tell everybody Irescued my wife from making the
worst mistake of her life, whichwas good.

(22:32):
ASU Because, seriously,seriously, who looks good in
Marine and gold, rune and gold,but so yeah so.
I go up there to do the testing.
Bad news was I figured out Ihad a couple blown out.
You know bad disc from either abad car wreck I had been
involved in or dirt bike racing.

Josh (22:47):
Right which one?

But you know I spent that weekend with my to be
wife and we started dating.
You know that lunch turned intoa dinner, turned into a weekend
, turned into her coming back toTucson after her freshman year
of college at ASU.

Josh (23:01):
Oh, wow, yeah.

Yeah, so fine arts.

Josh (23:04):
We're going to get there some.
So sorry, I know there's allthese.

No, no, it's hard to weave all this stuff, yeah,
so work with me, follow me soyou can tell I have a lot of
energy.
This is me, by the way, not oncaffeine.

Josh (23:18):
Yeah, you just drink it Record.
You just drink in water overthere.

Mike (23:21):
And did wrote up Mount Lemmon this morning already.

Yeah, I've been up since four and getting it done,
so I have a lot of energy Energy.
But so yeah, so you know, theway my life worked out was like
okay, what am I going to do nowthat I can't?
My, my plan A didn't work outand so.
I thought well, at the time, oneof my best friends from
elementary school, who I wasliving with in college, two
buddies, jason Bentley and RandySuter is also a business owner

(23:47):
and a phenomenal athlete andcyclist Randy Suter, over at
O'Plewlem gymnastics, yep.
But so we were all childhoodfriends, from kindergarten and
we were living together and Iwas thinking, man, what am I
going to do?
So Jason's dad was a TBDsergeant at the time.
He said hey, you guys arejuniors now, sophomore to
juniors.
You got to test.
You got to get in the firsttime, but you should probably
test.

(24:07):
And I tested.
So at that time I was nottelling all of my you know fine
art, you know peers that I wasgoing to be a cop or go to the
Marine Corps, obviously, andthen fast forward.
I got a job offer and I thoughtat that point Don and I were
engaged, we owned our firsthouse here in Tucson together
that we were remodeling and um,and I thought you know, man, I'm

(24:28):
ready to get my life started.
And it was probably the onetime I really listened to my dad
, after not wanting to hear him,but I listened to him and he
was like hey, if the PD wantsyou, they're going to let you
let you finish school.
So my junior year I accepted theoffer to TBD and I postponed,
for I had one year which meant,you know, full load, winter, uh,
summer, summer session.

(24:49):
So I ended up walking in winter.
So I took, you know, I had totake classes everywhere, but I
had to walk in in May of May of2000.
Okay, but I had a few classes tofinish up so I finished up
summer school, got my diplomaMid-month in August of 2000, on
a Wednesday.
I got married that Saturday.
I started the police Academytwo weeks later.
That's a great two weeks.

(25:10):
It was a busy two weeks.
I told my wife for like thefirst three years of our
marriage, life was gonna slowdown, and then I stopped because
I figured out it was nevergoing to slow down and it hasn't
since it really hasn't it hasnot.

Mike (25:21):
Yep, very cool, all right.
So what one more race I want totalk about which I thought and
then maybe we can lead into,that'll take us into some of the
Kind of the connection with thecommunity and law enforcement,
things like that.

That's okay.

Mike (25:34):
So the you mentioned the 24-hour race that you've done
for years, you know, and I lovethe.
The headline from, I think it's2019 is called call the cops 24
hours in the old Pueblo TucsonPolice Department, and I think
your team was you remember thename and Then they blew line.
Yeah, yep.
And and you had a nice quote inthere about celebrating officer

(25:55):
wellness Yep, you know, kind ofbringing that to the forefront
on bicycles, of course.
And the other piece I thoughtwas really neat in there which,
josh, I know you've gotten yournotes here yeah, is the part
about I think I can't rememberhis name, but he gave you guys
donated jerseys for look, save alife.

Yeah, brendan Lyons Okay, save a life.
Great sponsor.
I've no Brendan for for quite afew years and he's always avid
supporter of public safety andthat's a.
It's a nice marriage.
I've helped him out on a fewthings just to create awareness
for cycling safety.
It's.
It hits close to home to me.
I've been blast on, knock onwood here that I've, you know I

(26:37):
won't say I've never crashed aroad bike, but the, the ratio of
my, my crashing and miles thatI put down is is is good and a
few years into retirement I'mactually like the first within
the first year of retirementcarry for the sergeant I told
you about.
You know she worked up, youknow, 20 years to be able to
retire and then retire and she'son her road bike and you get, I
got the call that you neverwant to get, which is Kerry's

(26:59):
been hit by a car and and from afriend of a friend, and at the
time we had it we couldn't trackher.
Her husband was also out ridingbikes and I was at work Down
downtown and and so I took offto.
Kerry had been hit on, old, old, old, old, sunrise up there and
what happened was a lady wasgoing to turn in off of the main

(27:21):
drag into a neighborhood and itwas a gate, it was like a
retirement home and she reachedup to hit the visor control and
the her arm blocked Care theview of Kerry, and she made the
left turn and she hit Kerry headon while she was doing about
1520 and Kerry was doing youknow, probably 2030, and so she
took Kerry over the hood andKerry had catastrophic injuries

(27:43):
and and so, as for a policeofficer, you know it's
interesting that when you'reworking and you get sent to the
hospital for Collision victim,if they don't show up quickly,
that's not a good sign.
And and so I was at the hospitalfor some time and she wasn't
showing up and I thought now,man, this maybe it's gonna, you
know, maybe it's gonna turn intoa fatal, and so Certainly, you

(28:07):
know, she, she did survive andshe's had a pretty crazy
recovery with a lot of hardware,but she definitely inspires me
that she doesn't ever give anyexcuses to this day, she's to
get out on her bike and she'sstill getting it done.

Josh (28:19):
She's still riding, so she'll get.

Oh yeah, she's amazing, that is amazing.

Josh (28:23):
So that kind of leads us into like one of the topics I
want to talk about.
You know kind of like therelationship between cars and
bikes here in Tucson and likeyou know your thoughts on you
know what can well, a handful ofquestions.
So we'll start with, like whatcan our cyclists do to avoid
accidents?

Yeah.
So the you know you got to besmart.
I mean, there's difference frombeing from commuting on a bike,
I think, through town at anygiven part of the day versus
when you're gonna try to get outto get your workout on or in,
right, and those are verydifferent things.
So I try to.
I try to get my workout donefirst thing in the morning.
It's not always possible, so Ihave a couple different routes
that I'll go do intervals or ina residential area so there's

(29:05):
less traffic.
So it's really just aboutmitigating the potential.
So higher volume of cars, higherrisk of getting struck, yeah,
right, and and so and in yourtire.
So if you're, you know, ifyou're gonna ride with music,
which I like to do, I never havemore than one earbud in so that
for twofold one I want to hearthose tires Squealing or braking
.
If it's a vehicle or verse, myown, yeah.

(29:25):
So you just your yoursituational awareness.
You're your reflective clothing, whites, you know, I have a
black helmet, but road bikehelmet but whites.
Better, you know.
So again, the more visibleyou're, you are I always have a
flashing, just like this morning, even though it wasn't gonna be
dark a nice flashing LED taillight just to draw awareness
right and then courtesy right.

(29:46):
So there's times where we buylock and ride to a breast just
about anywhere, but there'stimes where it's better not to.
And so I'm just like everybodyelse when I'm on my weekend and
I've certainly had a run in withquite a few Drivers that I've
had to educate on the ArizonaVice statute laws, which I enjoy
doing they have no idea who I'm, who's yelling at them.

(30:08):
But you know, a lot of mybuddies were have the LED Tail
light, that also has the cameraso we can capture those
aggressive drivers.
I will say, you know, obviouslyI can make sure that my staff
follows up on on On aggressivedriver complaints and the Pima
County Sheriff's Department doesa great job with it as well.
But you know, we this thismorning we were riding up Mount
Lemon and between you know, someof the motorcycle Community are

(30:31):
great and then other ones arejerks who are doing triple the
speed limit up Mount Lemon, andso there will be some
deployments of TPD and Sheriff'sDepartment Motors up there In
the future to catch people whoyou know, and that includes
cyclists.
Right, we have to be carefultoo, and we're descending and
we're passing cars and you knowwe're, we're partially
responsible for the attitudethat people have with us.

(30:51):
I try to be a good steward ofboth, you know, and I can't say
I don't ever roll a stop sign ifnobody's around, but those are
the things that really form andput a bad taste in people's
mouth when they look at allcyclists.
And you got to remember to youknow too.
You know two guys might becycling together and have words
or have a total attitude Withsomebody in a car, but it

(31:14):
doesn't mean that that car laterthat day, that week, that next
month, and run into a solocyclist or you know young, a
young woman or a young adult oryoung, you know A teenager, and
take out that frustration thatthey had with the previous two
cyclists on, and a cyclist hadnothing to do with that, and we
did get, we did have somebodypass us.
Probably today there was noreason for them to get this

(31:35):
close, but within 12 inches,yeah yeah, definitely not three
feet.

Mike (31:39):
Yeah, yeah, in in some places there's that tension, I
think, kind of reference betweencyclists and motorists, right,
and so I don't know, like, asfar as the community goes, like
what can meet, what we can dotogether?

Josh (31:52):
to like improve the relationship between Motorists
and cyclists.
Yeah.

I think.
I think it's.
It's better than than probablymost people give us credit for.
I mean, what we have toremember is this is not an easy
town to get across.
I mean it definitely.
The arterial roads weren't builtfor over a million people in a
major metropolitan of, well youknow, half a million major
metropolitan is well over amillion, and so everybody's just
got to be a little bit patient.
The loop is a great way, as acyclist, to get across town.

(32:18):
Yeah, so definitely a bigadvocate of that.
But if folks are right, wedon't.
We don't have, I'm pleased tosay we, you know, most of our
collisions and fatalities withVehicles and in cyclists aren't
avid cyclists through either acommuter or somebody who didn't
have a light, didn't havereflective clothing on, didn't

(32:38):
have a helmet or was intoxicated.
So it certainly happens, butthe percentage is pretty low
here in town.

Josh (32:43):
Typically it's not an avid cyclist.

Okay, it typically is not.

Josh (32:50):
Okay, so if, if it's all right, no, no go ahead.
If, if we do run across anaggressive driver, what's the
right protocol as a cyclist toreport it?

The best thing to do is and not engage.
If there, if you, if everybodypulls over and you can get a,
you know what I recommend ifthere's more than two people and
somebody's engaging with thatperson, then somebody else
should have their phone outrecording it.
Get video.
The video is the best thing.
In fact, you can go to theTucson Police Department org and
in and already just GoogleTucson police and a pull it up,

(33:20):
but you can submit videos foraggressive drivers.
Oh, that's, one way and that'sreally.
You know, we'll follow up andthat tends to just be
communication like hey, you werereported that you were
aggressive.
But it's a first step.
If it's if somebody's usingtheir car to swerve at you or
brake check you, like we'vewe've seen before that that

(33:41):
becomes something different andwe can start looking at felony
aggravated assault charges onthose individuals.
So it's a real deal.
But here's what I would tellpeople is COVID changed behavior
and we have a gun problem herein Tucson.
Last year we had 870 non fatalgun incidents Wow.
And people are spontaneous.
Violence is on the rise acrossthe country post COVID, and it's
certainly that way here too,and includes juvenile.

(34:02):
So you know, if you've got acar full of aggressive people,
it you know go, turn around andgo the other way.

Mike (34:10):
You know get your get to get a snapshot of the.

You know the plate, you know the foot, quick photo
where you can report it.

Mike (34:16):
But the best thing is just don't don't, don't engage on a
huge yeah, it's.
That's interesting, thestatistics since the pandemic,
that is, it's right, we're nokidding.
Yeah, homicides used to reallyhave a correlation that there
was a note you know there wassome known nexus either.

Folks were in an intimate relationship, they were
doing a drug deal, they werecoming crime.
Together was something, andthose numbers have just
radically changed, not just inour state or here in Tucson, but
across the country post COVID.
So shorter fuses.

Mike (34:42):
Short refuses yeah, you're .
You're quoted also by byCaitlin in that article from
December 2021.
Is that you have?
Well, I'll start the top here.
We're not going to tolerateanother year of 80 plus
fatalities in our community.

Yeah, and then we probably had almost 100.
So that was a definitely rookiechief comment and I probably
had to put my foot in my mouth.
Don't use numbers, but, but Ilike to where you know.

Mike (35:07):
You had priorities right and there was a basis for that.
You said you have more odds ofbeing a victim from a vehicular
accident with your driving,pedestrian and bicycle than you
do of being of a violent crime.

Yeah, you do.
And so here's the thing I meanI am, while I live on the, you
know, the county city line, justin the county.
All of my commerce is in thisin the city and the in the O5
and 4040 North Oracle is mywife's target, my boob barn, my
you know small my automotiveshops, my Home Depot and my
Chipotle and all these differentthings.
So so you know my oldest son isdriving in the city.

(35:40):
So you know I definitely have a.
All my family lives here intown.
So I it's, it's personal for me, it's not just I'm the chief of
police, it's that I care about.
You know my officers who areout there, and it's risky and
dangerous for them.
You know every shift that theyhave it's.
You know my family I drivethrough, I ride my bike through
town.
So, yeah, it's, it's an allhands on deck.
And so you know the point I wasgetting across, and I actually

(36:02):
don't regret the comment becauseI want people to know.
Like you know, though, you knowevery one of those numbers
represents a family who isn'tgoing to have that person home
for the holidays.
So, and it impacts the personwho committed the offense, and
they're, although they may havecriminal charges, at something
they have to deal with the restof their lives Left turners,
what I would tell them an avidmotor motorcycle rider to this

(36:24):
day.
I just got motor recertified soI can ride motors with my
officers occasionally, and youknow whether you're on a bike or
you're a pedestrian or crossingthe street.
You know green doesn't mean go,you have to pay attention.
There's so many distracteddrivers with these phones and
all the technology and vehiclesand so you know my, if you have
kids and you're listening tothis podcast, what I would tell

(36:46):
is like get you know.
Hope you have fun listening toa variety of my squirrel moments
, but also get get you know.
Have that conversation withyellow mean stop it doesn't mean
floor it.
If you're going to make a leftturn, make sure that
thoroughfare is clear.
My neighbor lost a nephew lastyear right by her house at River
in La Cunhata to a left turnerand it was a young woman who I

(37:08):
don't know ultimately who was atfault, but it doesn't really
matter, it was.
You know the motorcycle wasgoing straight through the
intersection, she was making theleft turn.
So whether she was running thered light or he was, you know
she's a young woman now that hasto deal with taking the life of
another human being.

Mike (37:23):
Yeah, yeah, tragic.
Can I shift gears a little bitBefore, but still along these
the veins of the law enforcement, of that in well, I guess just
kind of your interactions withthe community.
With the rise of e-bikes, isthat change anything as far as
like policing and safety,anything like that?

It's funny, we have a few e-bikes, but even my,
some of my.
So we have.
We have a.
The downtown district, in thedowntown quarter, has set bike
officers who use bikes quite abit to to, you know, to get
around downtown.
And then we use bicycles in ourfour different patrol divisions
.
We have four different patroldivisions that cover 250 square
miles and, just a reminder, thisis the 33rd largest city in the

(38:07):
country.
So we're not.
You know, it's sleepy oldPueblo.

Mike (38:09):
Yeah.

This is a major city, yeah, and so in each
division they have a fleet ofbikes that then officers get
trained to be able to ride andthen they'll go out and do
overtime shifts and communityengagement or go work in our car
parks or different things onthe bike.
So we don't really have a wholelot.
In fact, I'm looking at pickingup a few more because I want
some of the staff to start doingsome deployments, really from

(38:31):
Park and Ajo down to about Grantand I tend that whole, that
whole bike path quarter, withthe unsheltered population
sometimes set up tents rightunder the bridge.
It's really unsafe and I do theloop, full loop, about once a
month and so we're going to.

Mike (38:45):
We're going to be doing everything.

Yeah.
And so you know the cops arewearing you know 30 pounds of
gear with their vest and theirgun belt, and so the e-bikes
become a really cool you knowforce multiplier to help them
not to have to have create thiscrazy high fitness.
They're not cyclists, they'recops who are riding a bike to
deploy, and so we're going to bescaling that program.
It is funny, I do see quite abit of e-bikes on.

(39:08):
You know people are two spaceswith the e-bikes, right, like
you're totally offended thatsomebody who's clearly not good
enough you know good of shape asyou passing you and you know, I
have a motor.
It's okay, I'm not in that camp.
You know it's like to eachtheir own.
Hey, if that makes them feelbetter about themselves or they
have some physical limitation,I'd rather see people get out on
the trail or out on the path,and if the e-bike is a source

(39:30):
for that, then great.
But it is funny.
You know there's occasionallywill be, you know, the group of
four or five of us either doingthe full loop or we're commuting
over to Mount Lemmon and andyou know you'll see this you'll
see a guy on a bike who's youknow, maybe 10, 15 years older
than you and maybe 20, 30 poundsheavier than you and he's in
flip flops and he's ripping like25 miles an hour, you know.

(39:52):
And then he wants to pass youlike he's you know he's kicking
your ass and you're like look,dude, we all know you're on an
e-bike, like you're not, it'snot that cool.
You know to pass somebody.
Would you want to do so?

Mike (40:01):
you know, to each their own, but I don't get.

You know I have plenty of other things to worry
about in my life.
I don't get too spun up.

Josh (40:07):
Are the laws any different for e-bikers on the roads than
they are with?
It just depends on their.

They're more, more.
Most of the city code or thestate laws are related to the
actual, the gas power thatreally the laws haven't.
You know it tends to.
The laws take a few years tocatch up to the technology and
so you know we've.
You know, we all saw for yearsaround town everybody who had a
DUI or the license suspended wasripping around one of these you
know beach cruisers that had achainsaw motor slapped in the

(40:33):
middle of it.

Mike (40:34):
And that's why you saw so many of those.

So.
But now you're seeing more andmore of the e-bikes.
So you know I don't thinkthey're supposed to be on the
loop.
I don't think you're supposedto be, you know over and you
know you're not.
I don't think you're supposedto go over 20, 25 miles an hour,
22.
I can't remember what the loop,you know past speed, is.
But you know, some of the avidcyclists are just as guilty of
going way too fast on the loop.
Like they need to remember.

(40:56):
Like that is a recreationalpath for walkers, for people,
kids and dogs, and it's, it is away for us to get across town
to do another ride, and so weforget that too sometimes.
Don't hammer it so hard on theloop.

Mike (41:09):
Yeah, what was so?
I think I remember you were onthe bicycle patrol for some time
.
What was that experience like?

It was interesting.
So the problem when you're on,you know you go ride a bike up
for 10 hours in this heat.
You do not want to ride yourbike on the weekend, so I
probably cycled less personallywhen I was doing it for a living
, but I but I did have a blastdoing it.
I only did it.
I did an operations divisionmidtown, which was where I was a
brand new officer, I think mythird to fourth year, and then I

(41:40):
was in that for about a year,year and a half, and then I
moved from there back to patrol,then to motors.
So again, you know, I traded abicycle for motors, and motors
is a whole another, you know,whole another challenge with
being out in the heat and havingthe you know the heat between
your legs all day.
And but I, you know, I was oldschool motor back on the
Kawasaki, you know John and PottJohn and Pott John Chips.

Mike (42:01):
Oh, I love that show.

Josh (42:02):
Yeah, yeah Me too, yeah, so what?
What do you task the bikepatrolmen with?
Like, what do they do?

So they can do a variety of things.
So, like downtown, it's just a,it's a, it's the perfect tool
to quickly, you know, cover alot of ground.
So you know, we, we, we put all.
You know the city is investedunder, you know, the mayor's
leadership and the citymanager's leadership has
invested a lot of dollars.
We own a way of over, like ifyou haven't been downtown for a
second Saturday or gone downthere to have food, like it's

(42:31):
you know, put us on the map.

Josh (42:33):
It's beautiful, it's definitely.

I was a brand new sergeant down there working
midnight, you know, seven yearsinto my career before it was
nice, yeah.
So I you know I take thatdeeply personal and I'll tell
you, when the year I was gone atthe 911 center, I did the tour
that year and my family met medown there and you know the

(42:54):
planning wasn't great from a PDperspective and there was some
some questioning whether or notthe event was going to go and I
was like there's no way, it'snot going, it's Tucson.
So that's a Tucson.

Josh (43:02):
They'll figure it out.

They're going to figure it out and they did and
they always will, and it's sucha great draw.
But the interesting part was,you know, we are thin staffed
and so that was part of it,planning was part of it.
But when I did that race and Ifinished and it would finish
that year at Armory Park and mywife and my and my youngest met
me down there, you know therewasn't like one visible cop down
there because they were all,all the cops we could pull

(43:24):
together at work and point andit is a brutal, I'll tell you
like if you're a cyclist andyou're doing L tour every
intersection, every time you seea cop, you need to thank them,
because one year I workedCongress night 10, which is at
the end of the race by the endof the day.
I hated everybody.
I hated motorists.

Mike (43:39):
I hated the cyclists.

You know it's a long day on your feet and the
fumes.
And you know people, eighthours into it, think that
they're like in contention towin.
You're like no, I'm sorry,you're going to have to wait
while I let these four cars gothrough.
You're going to be all right.
So, you know it's one of thosedays you can't win with anybody,
but I share that story andexperience because I didn't see
a police officer down there andyou got, you know, thousands of
people down there and you want,you know, that day is a good day

(44:02):
for Tucson to be on the map.
So we ended up going down toFourth Avenue for dinner and
then we came back downtown tothe Screamery for Ice Cream
because you know at that pointyou can eat whatever you want.
And again I didn't see oneofficer.
So just when we and we had aninteraction with an unsheltered
gentleman who was, you know,harassing my wife, and then

(44:24):
there were some other you knowsketchy dudes by my car to get
my wife to load my son up on thestreet, and I just thought
we're not doing this If I evercame back as chief.
Like this is not happening.
And so the next year, you know,I've made chief and guess what
we did?
We started planning six monthsout and I made it really clear,
like so we had all the positionsfilled months before.
I wanted high visibility, likeso, you know.

(44:47):
So downtown is also deeplypersonal to me and you know, you
know, I go down there with myfamily on the weekends to have
dinner and socialize and dodifferent things.
So, you know, the idea is likelet's be proud of the investment
that we make, but, like any,it's like your, it's like your
yard.
You can you have a beautiful,you can spend Thousands of
dollars on landscaping on youryard and in six months, if you

(45:09):
don't do any upkeep, it lookslike crap.

Mike (45:11):
Yeah.

Well, the same thing goes for policing and city
investment, metro, governmentinvestment in spaces.
If you know you, it's not justthe investment, but then you
actually have to do the upkeepto keep it habitable.

Mike (45:21):
Yeah that's good analogy.
So that brings us to why we gotin touch with you Was from
Scott Reith and it was regardingthat, the tour, the Tucson, I
think, and if he brought it upabout, outdoors magazine voted
the tour nation's best roadcycling event, right?
So yeah, and and from your, youknow, like the law enforcement
and policing of it, I mean,you're a big part of that, right

(45:43):
?
So yeah kudos, and thank youfor that.

It was a fun day, I mean for me to be able to ride
at the 66th as chief, and I hada lot of pride and all the city
staff who did a heart did thehard work to get the roads ready
and and put that race together.
And then, of course, all thelocal public safety, because it
takes all of us chipping in.
There's 11 different publicsafety organizations in this, in
this valley, and it takes usall that day to pull that race

(46:07):
off.
So talk about a fun day to be.
You know, doing what I love fora living, which is be a cycle,
you know or not, for you knowbeing a police officer for
living, but also doing what Ilove for passion, which is
cycling and I'd be able to seemy staff and intersections I was
.
It was like such a cool daywhere I was proud of my staff,
proud of Tucson, and In theroads are getting better.
I like the route, I like theratwood.
Did this last, this, last year.

Josh (46:29):
Yeah well, registrations open.
Now it's November 18th.

Yeah 7500 people the earlier you do, at the
cheaper days 7500, 7500 people.

Josh (46:39):
If it feels super hot right now, don't worry, because
on November 18th it's an.
It's between 49 and 72 degreesis what it is.
So it's like beautiful, yeah,come on out and and spend some
time with us, man.

Mike (46:51):
So the other thing that Scott mentioned was you're a big
part of in the community, inthe cycling community and then
Tucson overall is the fundraiserthat you do Collaboratively
with some other folks, and canyou talk about that?

Yeah, it's just a boys and girls club it's.
There's a lot of organizationsthat put in.
Jim click is a big part of it,obviously.
So there's a lot of localbusiness that basically chips
and fundraisers and purchasesbikes and then and then we, and
then we give those Bikes out tokids in need.
So you know, we have double thepoverty rate and know that most
people are really clear on thathere in Tucson, but we have
almost twice the poverty rate ofthe rest of the state and the

(47:25):
rest of the country.
And while, while you know,again, city and county
leadership are doing a great jobof of Working on that, that's a
.
That's a that's something thatimpacts all of Tucson and we all
have a responsibility to help.
You know, our youth see thatpoverty is Poverty, is not
generous, does not have to begenerational and it's not a

(47:45):
handicap should you not want itto be?
But sometimes, you know, thekids just have to to see a
brighter future.
So I'm actually in my thirdthree-year term on the boys and
girls club board, so I get tointeract and they're obviously
super involved with this effortas well.
So how can our listeners help?

Josh (47:59):
there.

You know so.
So first register for the race,right, that helps, and then you
know, obviously they'll tour.
They make donations to localnews, donations to local
nonprofits as well, through thethrough your race funds.
But then as a race gets closer,we'll be trying to do a better
job of advertising, where theycan do extra donations and
things.
And Another way they can do tois buy a bunch of secondhand

(48:22):
warm clothes because you're notgonna, you're not gonna have a
friend there at four in themorning to gather them up or
seven when the race starts sowhat's cool is everybody can
grab warm gear and you know, andbasically use it the morning of
the race and then just leave itthere and then we'll collect
that and give it to.

Josh (48:37):
Oh, I didn't know they did that.
Yeah, that's super cool yeah.

Mike (48:40):
Yeah, nice.

Josh (48:43):
All right, pete, can I pivot again?
Yeah, go back to pivot.
Yeah, I want to talk about bike.

Speaking of pivot, pivots got a new bike coming out
, I think they do.

Josh (48:51):
Oh yeah, I just Just picked one up for his wife from
Dane shop the guru.
Yeah his new shop anyways.
Bike theft.

Yes.

Josh (49:00):
How's it going in Tucson these days?

We still have.
You know, property crime is waydown.
Post cove it again, becausecove change things.
Yeah, people working from homeand remotely.
So overall our property crimein the last five years down
about 20%.

Mike (49:14):
Okay, because people are home.
I mean, that's part of it.

I think that's part of it.
Yeah, okay, so it is one of thebenefits, I'd like to say,
because I think our cops aredoing a better job and we have
better partnerships andprosecution as well.
But I think it's mostly has todo with people being at home and
it's harder to steal things andring cameras and security
cameras.
So the best thing I can tellyou is Software technology.

(49:37):
Ring is great and you canactually give the police
department access to that shoulda crime have occurred.
We don't log into it like bigbrother, we just only ask you to
go and do it if crimes so wesolve a lot of crimes on public
facing cameras a lot offatalities on a homicide, a lot
of thefts, so I've got one on myhouse, you know.

Josh (49:54):
So I know who's got one too, but I didn't know I could
give you guys access you can.

So if there's a crime that's being occurred
actually, or you can register it, you can register it and then
we'll know to come knock on yourdoor or send you an email say,
hey, we're you.
Know, we're looking for crimefootage from this time at this
date and we have access to it.
But the big thing is you got tokeep your bikes secured.
You know, know your halfpictures of your soul.
You're not your soul screen,your serial number.

(50:19):
They should come with a soulsecurity number for what they're
charging for these new Nice.
They don't even have an engine,but so know, know those numbers
.
A lot of times folks are gonnaquick, try to do quick flips on
on Craigslist or some othersocial media platform.
Yeah but you know, the bestthing, vice is, we watch the
second hand stores upon shops,the.
But if we have the serialnumber we can register it and

(50:41):
then if they do try to sell itto a pawn shop, then the pawn
shops have to register thatnumber and then we do searches
to find those things now I was,I was reading it like back in
2010 2013 time frame, that youguys were looking at doing some
type of Voluntary bikeregistration and actually had
like a system built to do that.
We did make a run on that.
I tell you to be you know thatdidn't, that didn't work as well

(51:01):
as we thought it would.
The best way is still just good, old-fashioned have your serial
number, yep, and if that occursI mean, there's obviously new
technology now with air tags andin different things that you
can track it.

Josh (51:11):
You can track your.
Yeah, there's a milliondifferent ways to hide a air tag
on a bike these days.

Mike (51:15):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I got my ring cameraafter I was not smart about my
kids BMX bike and it was easy,you know, just grabbed it in a
couple minutes and it was gone.
But I have her in camera now,so I Don't know.
At least I gotta watch them.
Take my break.

At least we'll be able to find out.
We're really good, and so isthe county, tracking down and
oral Valium ran on like if wehave a video or photo.
Our cops are really good aboutknowing who folks are out there
and we're committing crime.
But what I'll tell you is it'snot just and you know, being
secured means not just in yourbackyard.
Yeah so somebody can peek overyour wall and see a bike.
It's no big deal for them tohop over, and dogs are not as

(51:53):
much as a deterrent.
The one time I've beenburglarizing the house I'm in
right now, but in their 13 yearsat the time we had a ferocious
looking 90-pound crop deerDoberman.
I was home.

Josh (52:04):
It's a big, scary dog.

Yes, it is, with a big dog door that they used to
like doggy door to come rightinto our house and oh wow and
rob us.
So Wow, you know dogs.
Dogs can be a deterrent, but onon somebody who's a
professional thief.
It's not a big deal for them.

Mike (52:19):
Yeah, I was encouraged when I call the pawn shops Just
to see if they a purple subarosaBMX showed up and they said, no
, we, we hold our bikes for Iforget what they said.
X amount of time we clear themwith the TPD.
Yeah, I go.
That's cool.
You guys got in the background.

Yeah, so we do.
Yep, no, they're good partnersand it works.

Josh (52:35):
I had a Ellsworth stone out of my garage.
The wife, when she was pregnant, left the garage open and I
think maybe three weeks laterthey found it at a pawn shop.
Yeah and I'd already.
The weird thing was I'd alreadygone through my insurance and
my insurance was like and youguys called and said, hey, come
pick it up, and called myinsurance.
I'm like you guys already paidme.
What do I do?
Yeah, I can't pick it up.
It's like a 10,000 hour bikeand they're like tell them to

(52:57):
donate it.
So I called you guys and saidgive it, give it to goodwill.
And like all my buddies werelike going around all good
Looking for it.
I don't think it made it out.
If it ever, if you made it fromthe shop, I don't think it made
it to.
Yeah, in any of the stories.

That's a good example of.
It.
Doesn't matter if you live inVale or Saladita or Moran or
Valley city of Tucson, and youknow inner city is that, yeah,
it's crime of opportunity, youknow.
It's just like, well, I justhad it out and I was just gonna
go do this one thing and youknow the next thing.
You know you come out and yourbike's gone.

Josh (53:23):
Yeah, what the sheriff told us was that the bike
thieves like kind of know wherethe high-end bikes are and they
just drive around looking foropen Grouches.

Yeah and they just, you know, we got high bikes,
take seconds.

Josh (53:33):
Yeah, yeah, my wife doesn't leave the garage door
open anymore.
Yeah.

You were stoked because you got a new bike.

Josh (53:41):
Yeah, same exact bike, arizona cyclist.
I just bought the exact sameright on speak speaking of bikes
.

Mike (53:46):
So you you mentioned you're gonna kind of go to bike
nowadays.
Yeah, can you tell us aboutthat?

so the wife put the foot down a week or two ago.
It's like, okay, you got fourmountain bikes.
That's ridiculous.
And I was like I'd like seven,five more garage space and she
was super pissed because in thesummer I have to have it.
I'll leave you my bikes in thein the house and, like the,
we're in the dining room that wenever eat.

Josh (54:11):
I don't know what the problem is.
I don't either, man.
Yeah, I'm with you, I hear.

But the sealant goes right like bakes it.

Josh (54:19):
Yes, it's true.

So you're saving the ceiling, saving the sealant
and you know, would you like togo sit in the garage all day
without air conditioning?

Mike (54:25):
Yeah, my baby.

Exactly, you have, look, you know what we pay for
these things because she doesyou know, I've direct deposit
and she does a checkbook, sothere's no, I basically have to
ask for an allowance.
So there's no Right when I'mgetting a new bike.
But yeah, so I.
So I decided, okay, I Was on astump jumper For kind of my

(54:48):
chunky, my chunky bike.
And then I'm an avid singlespeeder.
I have been since Gary Fishercreated them and and the back
then when the technology suckedand the geometry was horrible.
But I was, you know, back thenwe've read 29 or single speeds
and people look at us like wewere crazy.
Yep, like they were e-bikes.
So I've always, I've always, Ialways have a single speed and

(55:08):
and then I always have a fullsuspension bike.
So I was in Sedona lastMemorial weekend.
We always do.
There's about 20 families thatgo up and camp and and do two
rides a day for a couple daysstraight and and and that the
bike was.
I was, you know, and I'm not.
You know, I'm certainly not asfit as some of my friends who
are getting ready to go raceLeadville.
So you're always looking forthat advantage.
And I thought, man, I'm, I justdon't need all this travel out.

(55:30):
I'm watching these guys onthese epic evo, especially as
epic evil, and they were doingjust fine.
So I promptly came back homeand ordered one before I sold
the stump jumper.
So it worked, all worked out.
I had given my my buddy son areally good deal.
I just got the military on astump jumper, so he's super
pumped.
Yeah and then.
So I basically, right now Ihave the last year, I think it's
a 2019 hardtail carbon Stumpjump for stump jumper frame,

(55:54):
when they were still callingthem stump jumpers as my single
speed that I picked up new usedafter I snapped my crave frame
out.
At Sedona I won the year beforeI everybody, I only had my
single speed.
Everybody said you can't ride asingle speed in Sedona.

Josh (56:07):
I've done it.

It was probably a challenge, so I did ride it, but
I did a break in the frame.

Mike (56:11):
To change a chain ring though.

Josh (56:13):
I yes before you went up there.
Yeah, to get up a little.

No, you know I'm a run, what you're brung, so I
like a little stiffer cadence.
Okay, so I'm 195 pounds, sixfeet, so I like to.
I like a slow grind versus afast spin.

Mike (56:28):
Okay.

So I tend to run a little bit stiffer gear.
But then, yeah, so I ended upjust picking up a Stump jumper
I'm sorry, specialized evo, andthen I probably had to get my
son one too, so it was like dumbway.

Josh (56:40):
I see it by two.

Yeah, thank God I found his use through a buddy's
friend who Bought one for hiswife and she wrote it twice and
it wasn't for her, so we keeptalking about that a smoking
deal.
So yeah, Deegan's rolling hisfirst carbon Carbon carbon evo,
so he's pretty pumped nice, andyou noticed a difference, though
, as far as the yeah, I like thepros.
You know the I go through.

(57:02):
I try to you know.
If it seems like, if you're onthat two-year mark Flipping
bikes, you, you, you.
Just it's the sweet spot.
You still lose your butt onthem, even if you get a good,
good deal on it.
But that's not why we're inthis right.

Mike (57:15):
No, no, no, but you know at the two-year part you're.

You know, other than changing brake pads and
tires, you're not getting intosuspension, big changes of
having to send your suspensionoff and all that good stuff.
So for me I've always foundthat's a sweet spot, but it is.
I have to say it's the they're.
They're hard to compete withbecause they spend so much money
on their engineering.
This bike is amazing.

Josh (57:34):
Yeah, it's the pro and it's yeah yeah, what's the
what's the group on that?

It's, it's SRAM, it's a SRAM group.
Oh so.
I think it's.
That's no, x, x.

Josh (57:44):
X is it, is it it's one step below the.
Is it a wireless?

it is wireless.
Yeah, so I'm actually.
I actually like the shift SRAMshifting better, the wireless,
then all, then all, then aShimano, but I like Shimano
brake products better.

Josh (58:00):
Have you seen them?
So do I did the same thing.
Have you seen the new Shimanothat they just came out with it
in the last week?
No it's a automatic drivetrain.

I've heard about it , but I have not seen it yet.

Josh (58:10):
Yeah, it shifts for you, man, that's crazy, so it like
feels attention.
Yeah, but like when you coastyour front cog is spinning Whoa
wrap your head around, yeah.

Well, you know, it's funny last night, it's
funny, you see it.
So last night I'm like I, youknow, I haven't charged the bike
.
So I'm on my, I have an 8th,those specialized road bike, and
it's got Ultegra products,shimano, ultegra components, but
the so on the road bike, youhave to plug it in, you have to
plug the bar in.
Versus, what I like about theSRAM products is they have the
batteries right and but I wasjust chuckling.

(58:42):
So I've got my bike plugged in,I've got my you know Wahoo
plugged in and I've got my lightplugged in and I'm like what a
world we're living in you knowyou've got three different, you
know, usb cores running to yourit's not an e-bike, right?

Josh (58:54):
I mean, it's still an acoustic bike, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, you just want your shifter to work when
you're going up my lemon.

Josh (58:59):
Chad.
Do you run with the?
Do you run the radar systemthat Garmin has?

No, no, I'm a, I'm a Wahoo guy.
In fact, after Leadville I wasso burnt out on technology like
like the ride, like so manyrides based upon back then heart
rate.
Now you know, obviously it'sdone by Watts, yeah, and I
didn't use a heart rate monitorfor like five years, didn't have
any kind of technology.
I used Strava to trackeverything that, but you

(59:24):
wouldn't see what you were doingtill after you got home.

Josh (59:26):
Yeah.

So I'm coming out of that and back to it.
I you know, one day when I growup I'd like to get a, a nest
works for a bike and have apower meter on it and all that
good stuff.
But 14,000 dollar price pointshard to choke down.

Josh (59:39):
That's like a car.

It's.
Yeah, I mean you can go buy aKTM 450, you know which is the
sweetest?
You know, 450 they make.
For less than that.
So I just have a hard timewrapping my head around and now
they can justify that cost.
But yeah, it's crazy, it iscrazy.

Josh (59:53):
Hey, um Chad, you got any final thoughts for our listeners
?

Yeah, I guess it.
You know it hasn't been an easycouple years post George Floyd,
the murder of George Floyd forfor public safety.
What I like to tell our troopsis you know, this is our time to
define our profession.
It's always been a nobleprofessional.
Continue to be there, certainlyBad police officers that do bad
things, but there's there aminute percentage of the

(01:00:21):
workforce that's out there.
That is, you know, here anddedicated to keep our community
safe.
So TTPD, for example, respondsto about 400,000 calls for
service.
We have over a million contacts400,000 thousand.
Yeah, we have over a millioncontacts with the public a year.
We average about eight officerinvolved shootings a year.
So a million contacts.
Eight of our highest level useof force is eight, eight to ten

(01:00:43):
and our we use less than athousand Thousand reportable
incidents of what we call, youknow, reportable uses of force
incident.
So what I would tell people isyou know the media doesn't pay.
To put things into context,they pay to sell airtime.
And so if you have a questionabout police use of force,
whether local, national, like,do the homework, don't just

(01:01:03):
listen to what you see on,whether it's Fox News or CNN or
local media.
Like, you have to do yourhomework, be educated about it.
And what I tell people is youknow, pre George Floyd, post
George Floyd, or even going evenback further, ferguson, which
was eight years ago Policedepartments across this country
are built around a nine monthtraining curriculum.
Nine months.

(01:01:23):
So in nine months we takepeople who are might still be
living at home, who've onlydriven a car for two years, who
have never been in a fight,don't have never fired a gun,
and we teach them constitutionallaw, state law, city code,
personality law for authority,all that, all the 21st century
expectations of police use offorce that surround, like you
know, things that they have toknow.

(01:01:43):
You know we teach them fitness,because a lot of these kids who
are sitting in front of acomputer all day, every day,
they're fitness, they're,they're morbidly obese when they
start the academy.
We have four months to get themin a shape to pass Arizona post
certification process.
So what I tell people in thiscountry is, if we want different
outcomes from our policeofficers.
It doesn't come with ninemonths of training, so it's just

(01:02:04):
like you have to be.
If you want to be a licensedplumber, electrician is four
years of trade, Right.
You go to Pima College for twoyears to get an associate's
degree and then what do you dowith that, right?
So if we want differentoutcomes from police, that comes
not actually with not thefunding.
It comes with investment andtraining.
And so, as you know, I'm superpassionate, also having a 19
year old son that's gettingready to join the army.

(01:02:25):
That you know seal teams.
You know that go out and keepour country safe.
They train 90% of the time,they deploy 10% of the time.
Oh we we deploy 95% of the timeand we train 5% of time.
So that just goes to.
We have such amazinglydedicated young women and men in

(01:02:45):
our organization who are outthere every day Learning,
keeping the community safe.
There's a lot of OGT.
It's high risk and we, you know, we give them nine months of
training.
We put a camera on their chest.
So my challenge to all thelisteners is Next time you see
something you're like, wow, thatdoesn't look good.
Well, if you strapped your,can't your cell phone and you
turned your video on when youleft your house tomorrow morning
and it rolled all day with yourkids and your spouses be proud

(01:03:09):
of you, Everything that you did.

Josh (01:03:12):
Perspective right.

Mike (01:03:12):
And so you know.

Chad Kasmar (01:03:13):
I'm in a really cool job where I get to give
perspective to community, to ourofficers, and sometimes it's
giving perspective to the otherside.
So you know, just like you'veheard some of my stories today,
like Policing is my professionand I'm passionate about it and
an honor to continue to leadthis organization.
I mean, never in a millionyears I think I'd be the chief
of police at a major city policedepartment, because there's

(01:03:35):
only 70 Major city policedepartments in this country,
right, and we're one of them.
We're in the NFL policing, andso to be the chief and to have
that responsibility is a hugehonor.
But I'm trying to use that to,you know, elevate mental health
and wellness in our organization.
I'm converting all of thegolfers to cyclists is my real
goal.
The running joke in thedepartment, which isn't too big

(01:03:56):
of a joke, is you have to, youknow, drink carbonated water,
have a go bag and own at leastone or two bikes to get promoted
.
They're catching on to mytactics, but I think it's pretty
healthy.
Yeah, exactly, so you know,look for me out on the out, on
the out on the road.
I'm out there, I'm out mountainbiking, and or, if you see me
in uniform, come by and say hi.

Mike (01:04:16):
We love Tucson and thank you for for all you do to keep
our community safe.

Josh (01:04:21):
You and your, yeah, thank you all of the force.
You in the entire department,man, I really appreciate it.

Chad Kasmar (01:04:25):
We had a busy weekend with those monsoons that
rolled through double ourdouble our call load on Friday,
saturday night.
So well, yeah, in the troopsjust got out there and got it
done, with 20,000 houses withoutpower or dark intersections,
and Just to keep things inperspective, you know From 9
o'clock in the morning till 6 inthe morning, I'm sorry.
So yeah, from 9 in the morningtill 6 in the morning, I
basically have two squads out ineach division, so you could

(01:04:47):
have 5 to 10 cops out in eachdivision and just imagine the
magnitude of that storm rollingthrough, 20,000 houses without
power.
Oh my gosh, yeah, so they doamazing things every day, so
super proud of them, yeah, verycool.

Josh (01:04:59):
Well, thanks for coming and spending some time with us,
right?
On appreciate you out on thetrail.
Cheers Thanks.

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053 - If only our chief of police was an avid cyclist. Oh wait, he is! (Chad Kasmar, Tucson Chief of Police)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}053 - If only our chief of police was an avid cyclist. Oh wait, he is! (Chad Kasmar, Tucson Chief of Police)