082 - The Impact of Female Role Models in Mountain Biking: Conversation with Dr. Jody Bartz - Mountain Cog

Episode Transcript
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Dr. Jody Batz (00:00):
30 second dance party seconds of your life too.

(00:27):
Your girls love it is, it'sstill going, it's still going.

Magellan (Josh) (00:29):
Yeah, all right , I, I gotta no wait, you gotta
wait, it's still going.
If you're not dancing, we can'tstop.
Okay, should I get up and dance?
Okay, it's all right, all right, we're done dancing all right,
this one's for you, jody, thisone's Okay.
How do you know when a man isabout to say something smart?

He opens his, oh, he shuts his mouth.
I don't know.

The Guru (Dane) (00:53):
He starts the sentence with a woman just told
me or a woman once told me Iscrewed up the punchline.
That's okay, it still worked.
You shouldn't have saidanything.
Nobody would have known Exactly.

All right.
Today we have a return guestfrom episode 29, jodi Bartz.
I'm going to tell you a littlebit about Jodi Bartz.
Jodi is a longtime educator, apassionate advocate for
disability.
She's got two autistic nephews.
She's got a PhD in specialeducation, family studies and

(01:25):
human development from theUniversity of Arizona.
She's been a guide with TanqueVerde Ranch.
She established and coached forfour years a new team, a new
NICA team in Flagstaff.
She's an L1 BICP certified bikeinstructor.
She is an L3 USA cyclingcertified coach.
She's an ambassador for LyftCycling.
She's a coach with SonoranEndurance.

(01:47):
She is an endurance athlete, asingle speeder.
Her catchphrase is take thespace.
Her pet peeves are at a girl.
She's the founder and executivedirector of Go Girl Girl.
How'd I do?

Damn.

That was good.
Holy crap, that's a prettyawesome resume.

It is that's a pretty awesome resume it is.
I'm still reading it.

So a little bit about GROW GIRL.
Grow, first of all.
The acronym stands forGathering and Recreating
Outdoors.
Learning to Give Back and BeResponsible and Take Ownership.
100% Yep.
Responsible and take ownership100% Yep.
And their mission is to increasethe number of girls and young
women in Tucson, vail and thesurrounding areas who believe
they're capable and strongathletes and outdoor leaders

(02:31):
through safe and supportedoutdoor experiences.
And their challenge is.
By age 14, girls are droppingout of sports at twice the rate
of boys.
Girls have fewer outdooropportunities than boys.
Girls experience bullying,discrimination and social
isolation more than boys.
Girls lack strong, confidentfemale athletes and role models.

It's a big problem.

Yeah.

It is a big problem.

It's weird, though.
I totally agree with that.
However, I'm just coming off aweek of Olympics Right, and the
girls are kicking ass.

Totally Big time.

I know, aren't they?
I kind of feel like theOlympics is a level set.
I feel just as strongly aboutthe male sports as I do about
the female sports.

Is that normal?
Or is that just Josh?
I don't know.
I just keep seeing all of thewomen.
No joke, the one shot put guy,he's cool because I, I feel like
we share a body type and then,uh right, and then.
But like simone, and like, uhgod, I can't even remember her

(03:38):
name, but the cyclist, she'sawesome.
What about the french?
What about?

the French mountain biker who crushed it on
a.

Pinarello hardtail.
I know he did, yeah, she, oh,no, hardtail.
Okay, so I watched one race,not Pitcock.

He did it on a full suspension.

Oh did he?
She did it on a hardtail.
That course was crazy too.

There's a three-foot drop in that course.
She did it on a the course wascrazy Lady crush yeah.
Yeah, I mean shout out to thePink Bike Podcast.
If you go back a coupleepisodes, they interview
Pinarello.
I mean Pinarello designed thosebikes specifically for the
Olympics but for racing yeah,those are race bikes.
Yeah.
And they talked about herdecisions coming up to what bike

(04:18):
she was going to choose.
And he chose the fullsuspension.
She chose the hardtail.

I can't imagine doing that course on a hardtail
I know I, I saw that course andas a like a downhiller, I was
like damn, because we used tomake fun of the cross-country
people, because it's like it'sjust a bunch of roadies, you
know, riding their bikes andthey they don't need to have
much skill, they just need tohave fitness.
And downhillers are like theopposite.
We're kind of round and andheavy and we go down real fast

(04:43):
but nothing scares us.

I'm not sure I could have cleared that course.
It was insane.

Some of those lines and they were changing
lines.
There wasn't one set line.

Jody, how are you doing today?

I'm doing excellent.
My favorite besides, of course,all the rad women is Poma Horse
Dude.

I don't know what that is.
What is that you?

don't know the USA men's Olympic team.
They had one guy who is thespecialist.

Is this hobby horsing?
No, no, no, I'm totally goingto do hobby horsing I am totally
into that.

I think we need to bring it to Tucson.

Is this the two handles in the middle?

Yeah, the pommel horse.

And there was a guy that I don't even know what
a pommel horse is.
Oh my God, you need to goGoogle it.

It's the thing with the two handles and they do
like everything, usually withjust their arms, and they're
swinging their arms.

Is it a horse?
No, they just call that causethey put their.

They straddle it from time to time.

Is this a gymnastic thing?
Yeah, it is Okay.
Okay, so it's like the.
It's a flat bar with, like, twohandles on it.

Right, but it's a .
It's more than a bar I'm in.

I just didn't know what it was called.
Yeah, and they've always gotpointy feet, so Well cause
they're in like a Snuggie thing.
A Snuggie Snuggie, that wouldbe awesome, like a onesie.
Is that the Olympic Snuggie?

this is probably the first time that
anyone's ever called it asnuggie.
Oh my god you guys asked meback so it's our fault yes, I'm
gonna go tonight, later tonight,so tell us about the hobby
horse, we cut you off.
No, it's not the hobby horse,it's the pommel horse.

Dude, it's totally it's gone now it's gone
just google pommel horse, dudepommel horse dude he nailed it
and like usa brought home metaland all this good stuff, like
that's, all he does is pommelhorse, yeah, and so he's called
like the specialist and and he'ssuper cool yeah, the only other
guy.

Yeah, I know of that I can think of from my I
I'm not super into the olympics,like I'm not watching all day
long yeah, it's the, the, theguy from turkey that shoots.

So oh yeah that guy.
Was he really shooting with acigarette?
I don't think so.

I think they're photoshopping that in, but he
did have his hand in his backpocket and he didn't use like
any apparatuses, and so that's,I think, what everybody was like
chiming in on.

But man the memes I know, so uh, jody what's
new in your orbit these days?

I got a new bike what'd you get oh?

yeah, a live devote gravel bike is that the
one you wrote over here is the?

one I wrote, and I wrote it, yes, through the
veil vortex, which didn't looknew, it looked dirty well that's
.

That's like how a bike's supposed to look.
Right, that's proper all rightit is.

I know my husband's like you put a
freaking frame bag on that thing.
I'm like it's a gravel bike,like yeah, it needs to go places
so yeah, so I got.

I got a new bike yeah and uh, oh, and he
started this non-profit and allthat good stuff oh yeah but you
know, oh yeah, just that littlething yeah, it's a little thing,
so, um so, tell us how thingsare going.
So when we had you in Februaryof 23, it was the last time we
talked to you.
You were like soft launchinggrow, girl, grow at that time.
Um, how's it been going?

You said we have an hour.

Leave as long as you want.

So um yeah, I know it's crazy to think um that
I was getting ready to softlaunch and kick it off in
February 2023.
I did four weeks, had a smallgroup of families and girls just
to try out logistics and kindof get a feel for the program.
Since then, we have served 77girls through programming.

So what does it mean to serve girls?
We may have some new listenersthat didn't hear that earlier
episode.
So what does it mean to serve?
I know I'm so.
I'm so close to it so like pullme out of the forest a little
bit and kind of keep me, youknow, I'll pull you up.

Exactly so.
Grow, girl, grow, um isgathering and recreating
outdoors.
Girls learn how to give back,be responsible and take
ownership.
So while we are not a mountainbike club, we're mountain bike
centric because mountain bikesare cool and it's really awesome

(08:52):
to see girls out on mountainbikes.
We are outdoor centric andwhile we're not a race team, I
fully support girls that do wantto race because that definitely
falls under the takingresponsibility and taking
ownership of maybe their gradesand their training and those
kinds of things.
But Grow, grow, grow is theafter-school program and during
the school year we meet.
For what we landed on throughthe course of over 18 months is

(09:15):
six-week programs with what wecall seven adventures.
So we meet once a week on,let's say, a Wednesday or or
something, uh, for about threehours and then at the end of
that six weeks we have aSaturday adventure where the
girls all get together and wegenerally go hike or we go do
something.
So six weeks, seven adventures.

(09:36):
Um, three or four of thoseadventures are on mountain bikes
.
Um, they, they, by proxy get ummountain bike skill instruction
.
So safety first, I mean, reallyI mean, and then the parents
most certainly appreciate that.
Um, we generally hike one ofthose days, then we are off bike
and we are giving back,generally through trail

(09:56):
stewardship.

So what does it mean for trails?
What does trail stewardshipmean?

Right, so it's, uh, it's, it's young girls
wielding trail tools, sharptrail tools which is fricking
awesome because, um, in the pastI had partnered with um, the
Arizona trail association, andTasha with the Arizona trail
association just really fell inlove with our program and it was
really rad to see a woman comeout and teach these girls how to

(10:23):
use these tools and safety.
First they've got hard hats on,they've got gloves on and
they're out there actuallymaintaining trail.
And then we also, we.
So we mountain bike three orfour times, we hike, we give

(10:47):
back to the trails and then wealways support a local business.
Admittedly, I lean intowoman-owned businesses here in
tucson.
Right, we've done everythingfrom um go to joni b's and learn
about skin care and actuallyyou know we give ourselves like
a little facial massage andlearn how to how to take care of
our skin to roots.
Yoga has come and done privateyoga sessions for us.
We've gone to HomestretchFoundation.
So just really supporting therad ladies in the community.

How do you recruit the girls?
Do you go to local schools andrecruit those Like?
What's your process forrecruiting?
You know?

what I actually haven't done a lot of recruiting
.
When I first launched theprogram, I was relatively small
and I needed to stop saying Ionly work with four or five
girls.
I took the only out of that Um,we're we're a society that's
conditioned to shrink down aswomen and say I'm only working
with four or five girls, and Itook the only away and and I'm

(11:38):
been really proud of, like, thedepth of relationship, because
I'm not just working with thegirls, I'm working with their
entire family.
I've connected families to um,help, carpool and those kinds of
things.
Um, but it's been through wordof mouth actually.
So, and then the good oldInstagram and the good old
social media piece of it.
What's super exciting is to seeit grow in every pun intended.

(12:00):
Um for example.
So grow, girl, grow is theparent organization, I call it
the mothership.
Um, and that's the afterschoolprogramming.
And then last summer, um, Ididn't want to just sit idly by,
I uh cause we don't ride a lotLike outdoors is a little rough
in the summertime.
Right.
Well, it's either like 4am or 5.

(12:22):
Or 5 am, or it's at night and,shocking, like tween and teen
girls didn't want to get up andmeet me at the trailhead at 5 am
.
I don't know what the problemwas, but when I tossed out the
idea of riding bikes at night,girls jumped at it, so that
became Shine, girl Shine, andthat was like every connotation

(12:44):
around girls shining, but alsomountain biking you know, at
night and using lights andwhatnot and so last summer I had
six girls all summer long thatI rode with and taught them how
none of them had been nightmountain bike riding before, or
if they had very, very limitedexperience and and uh, and so we
we had six girls had a greattime.

(13:05):
This summer I had 17 girls, niceyeah.
So, like, do do the math realquick.
That's a lot, and so do youhave?

do you have other adults that are helping?

I do.
I started um grow girl, growwith one female woman, volunteer
one, and I did Ashley.

No, actually it wasn't, it was justine okay, so
just like call, are you callingout ashley that she needs to
help?

yeah, ashley is a volunteer, she's awesome.

Yeah, she should work harder.
Yeah, she'll probably like that.

I said that actually, dane dane said that
jody did not um, but I startedwith one volunteer and um, I did
not do any recruiting, justthrough the good old socials and
and word of mouth, womenstarted reaching out to me and
started asking what is this like, girl, girl, girl, like what?

(13:57):
What is it that you're doing?
How can I help?
And so I now have, at lastcount, I have 17, 17 or 18 women
on my volunteer coach list,which is pretty freaking
fantastic.
And so I feel like I'm nottapping out one particular
volunteer all the time.
They all get like thespreadsheet blasted to them and
I'm like fill in your name whereyou can so you know, and I'm

(14:20):
like I can pay you with asticker and a smile and some
snacks.
You know that's what I got tooffer you.
But the beautiful thing is,every single volunteer coach, um
, just through the organicnature of it, um, I haven't had
to do any explaining like thisis what we do, like they have
come to it organically and theylove what I'm doing and so it's

(14:43):
it's just really cool to watch.
So, yeah, I give them kind ofthe rundown or like this is the
process and you know my PhD,you're going to have a little
procedure and whatnot.

I mean, but it's, but it's safety.

You know safety things, but it's like okay, you
two are going to do the bikechecks and this is how I do the
bike checks and you know this.
But then is that theirresponsibility, so I get to
interface with the families andthey're connecting with the
girls and doing all those coolthings.
So it's pretty awesome.

Yeah, Jilly did this.

Oh, she did.
Yeah, my two nieces did as well.

Yes, yeah, and she just blossomed as a writer.
Because you know she doesn'twant to listen to me, I go tell
her to shift and do things andshe does not want to listen to
you.

Yeah, but with jody she listened to everything
one of the things you did.
A good job, because she'sripping right now.

She's, yeah, she's great, can't wait so I
can't wait to see what she cando on a bike.
But um, one of the things shesaid is jody taught me not to
say I'm sorry when I'm at theback of the thing, uh, not to
say I'm sorry when I, you know,go slower and things like that.
She said just thank people forwaiting for me.
So like she turned it around,you know, instead of being sorry

(15:55):
and and I was like wow, that isawesome.
You know, that is one of thoselittle things that people don't
always notice, but when somebodyis like hey, thanks for waiting
for me is different than I'msorry, I kept you up.

You know, it's such a positive, the rule is
actually I mean, the girls knowlike safety first, helmets
always like all those things,right I?
Mean I'm like the safetymonitor and I'm totally fine
with that.
But um, but the but.
I tell them there's one ruleit's no sorry, but you can say
surprise, and so that's, that'sthe rule, and so um surprise,
we're waiting.

(16:27):
I got a flat tire right or justyeah, so, because our society is
so conditioned to girls andyoung women and women just in
general, um, just like no, I'llbe at the back, I'm sorry, I'm
really slow and I'm not, youknow.
It's like no, no, no, no, no,there's no sorry, you showed up
today, you're doing your best,um, and but you can say surprise
, and so, even if we have minorcrashes, um, I sometimes I

(16:53):
generally lead from behind,which means I'm at the very back
.
So, because I'm I'm mama hen andI want to make sure that
everybody's making their way.
Um, we've got walkie-talkies ortwo-way radios and so we're
always in communication.
I'll let the ride leader slowdown or whatnot, but every once
in a while, if we have a littleminor crash, you might hear
somebody go surprise.
And then you hear surprise,surprise, surprise.

(17:16):
Luckily we've had no majorinjuries.
A couple of Band-Aids have beenbusted out, but it's kind of
this pile-up of surprises, butit does.
It totally changes the dynamicof the girls not coming to at it
, apologizing for being slow orfor holding somebody up or for
their shoe coming untied orwhatever it is.

(17:37):
It's like no, you're here,You're doing your best, you
showed up.

It's such a great lesson for a young woman
to learn early, uh, to to theningrain into them and carry that
forward, because I feel likethe opposite happens too much
you know, where they're.
They're kind of it's and andit's not always intentional, I
think, like as a parent, like Idefinitely follow norms that I'm
just used to, and so I justreally liked that and it just

(18:03):
kind of clicked in my head so Ireally appreciate that.

I mean, can I steal that as a fat guy at the
back of the trail?

You totally can.

Yeah, I'm totally going to be like thanks
for waiting for me.
I say sorry like every ride.
So I'm totally going to stealthat we should all do that.

You know we really should.
It's a really good know you arewho you are and don't don't
apologize for who you are andit's okay and just thank people
for for accepting you and that'sreally like applicable more
than in this scenario that'slike everywhere, in any 100, any
case, I know I can I can gett-shirts made that say hashtag
surprise, not sorry and sellthem there we go fundraiser

(18:37):
right fundraiser all right, putme down, we're in for 10 shirts.

We'll start we'll kick start your offer, all
right.
Next question I have for youhere what actions have you found
are most effective in hookingnew young female athletes on
mountain biking?

Oh, with energy I mean if you're passionate and
stoked about what you're doing,like that spreads, and I will
say that I've been told that islike um yeah, no one's accused
you of having lack of energy.
No, exactly, yeah, exactly, mypoor husband, godspeed to him,
right, so no, but it's.
But when you are so passionateabout what you're doing, um,

(19:18):
that's contagious.
So and, and you know the, thegirls, I think, instantly feel
comfortable.
It does help that I've been ineducation for 30 years and so,
um, and particularly in aspecial education, so I
understand what we callscaffolding, which is sort of
building on skills, so, andmeeting riders where they're at,
um, so I, I tend to have a warmbubbly, vivacious, you know
what I mean, whatever word youwant to use like welcome.

(19:40):
So girls feel, I think,comfortable so right away.
Um, I think and that wordspreads pretty quickly energy,
so energy.
But I think, you know, I thinkit's just that, just the energy
around the bike, energy around,you know, stoked, being together
, just like bring in the 30second dance party, you know,
with the flavor flave necklacething, it's like just, can you
play that again for us, just Ijust want to, I just want to

(20:02):
hear the dance party again.

I think it's like a good interlude.

It's the longest 30 seconds ever.

We don't have to listen to the whole thing 40
second dance party.

We're all bobbing our ass.
See, see, it's contagious.
Yep, it's true.

It's like the stupidest, most awesome thing,
right.

Why do you think I bought it right?
It's true, it's like thestupidest, most awesome thing
right.

Why do you think I bought it right?

Yes, yes, yes, it's like yeah, right, and I
found it on Instagram andconnected with the owners, I'm
totally going to buy it.

I'm going to change our music to be that.

Well, there's this one on a gold chain, yeah,
and then the other one sits inmy red sequined fanny pack.

And.

The other one sits in my red sequined fanny
pack and if you're lucky you getto wear that one and then you
just like, just hit it and like.
The rule is you have to stopwherever we are on the trail
safely.
So, it's a good, but it's alsoI mean, just think about like
the skills there right Cause wedo have to suddenly stop on the
trail.
So I'm teaching that, but in afun sort of way, and then girls
are out there dancing and it'sawesome all right, all right.

What's the?
So back to the question that Iasked you originally about.
Like what?
Where are we?

going I don't know this is what we do.
I know I know I put it out ofmy mind.
I put it out of my mind.

It's been like a year and a half and you're
like finally you forgot andwe've got you back all right.
So the inverse of the question.
The original question I askedyou was like what hooks them?
What's the inverse?
What actions have you found areleast effective in hooking
snakes?

No, snakes are cool.
We like snakes.

I almost lost Jilly because of snakes.

She liked him when she was with me.
I'm just saying.

What turns them off to the sport.

Probably crashing .
I mean, you know, that's,that's, that's a, that's a big
one.

At a girl.

Oh God, don't do that, no at a girl, please, I
know.
Oh, you're so good.
Oh, can we talk about trailchads, you know?

I don't know what that is.
Is that like a Karen?
Is that like the opposite?
Yeah Trail Chad.

Trail.
Chad is the.
I had a girl.
Oh so good oh you're doinggreat hon.

Yeah, right, yeah.

I know and I'm like, not the one I want to like
.
Smack upside the head.

So, yeah, yeah, trail Chad.

So I think I, but I it's.
You know that that can kind ofknock the you know wind out of
the sails pretty quickly.
So, um, I think, though, how weum support the girls so and
we're not at a girling but I'malso not like, toughen up, let's
go, you know it's.

(22:35):
It's.
I mean, obviously it's safetyfirst and and we're all carrying
our first aid kits and all thatgood stuff, but, um, but just
kind of teaching them like thebest thing you can do is get
back on the saddle, get back onthe horse, get back on the
whatever and pedal along, andthen I see them come back the
next week.
So, and then I've even hadgirls be like do you see my scar
?

And I'm like that's freaking cool.

Like that's awesome.
I'm like you don't want to lookat my knees, you know, because
they're pretty bad.
Well, I think too I have togive a shout out to Tara from
homegrown, who is a dear friend,total fricking badass, as we
all know, but she's reallybecome a very good friend, a
mentor.
I do some guiding for her attimes, which is super awesome.
So it was like women supportingwomen, like my attitude is like

(23:18):
the rising tide lifts all ships.
So in that space and I went tothe homegrown women's clinic up
at angel fire.
No, no, I went last year um,yeah, and, and anybody that
knows jody, like that's likethose two never I never thought
would meet downhill rightdownhill.
And, jody, I'm a single speederlike hardtail.
You know what?
I mean single speeder rigid fork, you know and and um, but but

(23:41):
that's exactly where I went.
So and I went um kind of in themiddle of shine, girl shine
last year and was talking to thegirls about doing hard things
and doing things that scare you,but like also being supported
in that space, like you don'tjust go launch it off of you
know whatever a drop or a job.

Yeah, dane, you gotta support me.
You gotta support me in thisspace.

Don't just tell meO-I boy.
But Tara said I will neverforget that when the clinic
first kicked off, there werelike 60 badass women around and
she said you're going to getcompliments.
People are going to complimentyou, whether it's on your helmet
or your bike or your riding orwhatever, and the only response
that you can make other thanthank you is I know right, and

(24:26):
my girls damn it.

Lacey said that to me, yes.

They, they, my girls, my girls know that.
So, and it's really in it.
So, in this vein of like thetone and kind of maybe not
necessarily what said, but howit said um, you know, so I have
had my girls.
You know some bro dude is likeyou know, on your left, you know
what I mean.
Oh, you know, good job girls.
And then my girls are like Iknow, right, you know, with hand

(24:55):
on the hip and I'm like you go,girl, yeah exactly that's
that's what yep, Creating abunch of little baddies out
there.
That's good, which is right, butit's but again, it's in that
space of you, know, I want girlsto feel powerful and I want
them to feel strong and I wantthem to to know their worth.
So in whatever space thatthey're in, and that they do
belong there, and whether it'son the mountain bike trail or in

(25:17):
life or wherever it is, so they, they don't have to apologize
for that.
And when somebody gives them acompliment, and if it's,
especially if it's a backhandedcompliment, so it's like that's
where, like that, I know right,and I can't tell you how many
times heads had turned like ohshe's, she's awful confident.
I'm like damn straight she isAll right.

What has been the biggest surprise that you've
uncovered since you startedgrow, grow, grow?

Um oh man.

I love putting in the spot.
I was going to send you theseahead of time.
No, no, you got it yeah no,it's good.

Um, um, how validated I have felt leaving
academia.
So I, I mean I went and got myPhD Like you, don't you know?
You're supposed to go touniversity and you're supposed
to do all these things.
And guess what?
I did all the things and Ichecked all the boxes and I
wrote all the grants and I didall the publications.

(26:13):
And I did all that and thebucket emptied faster than it
was filling.
Yeah, and um your personalfulfillment bucket Right Right
the, the QOL quality of lifebucket.
And so, um, it's, it is like itoverflows.
So, in doing what I'm doing andit's just really freaking
fantastic, so it's I I can'ttell you how many powerful like,
almost like, bring me to tearsIf not, I mean I have been

(26:36):
brought to tears in a good way,on powerful stories that
families have either told me,texted me, emailed me all of the
above um of just just the, thelife changing um aspect of of
what I'm doing with these girls,which is pretty, pretty awesome
.

Is there a story you can share with us so
you can protect the innocent andsave the names?
Is there one you feelcomfortable sharing?

Yeah, I, I, I do.
Um, we had a, a, a, a girl, Umso, who joined us in spring, um
the spring session, and she was,um, we had like one elementary
school slot, I should.

I should say that the program has evolved Um
just originally it was likefourth to eighth grade, right,
right.
The third to eighth grade Right.

And now I do like I do third through fifth grade
and then sixth, seventh andeighth grade.

So you've got them separate.

Yeah, I do Two different perspectives, two
different approaches and mySpidey sense, my, my mom,
teacher, instructor, coach.
You know what I mean.
A Spidey sense says you knowwhat Middle school girls have
unique needs and elementaryschool girls have unique needs.
And so what I do is I designthe program that the middle
school girls, once they've gonethrough two rounds of
programming, then they can be amentor or a junior coach with

(27:46):
the elementary school girls.
Oh, that's cool.
So um, and that's like the nextiteration is, it's what's going
to be called shocker mentor,girl mentor.
Everything's going to besomething girl um at a girl Um,
but um, anyway I, I digress butum.
But we had a spot open in the L.
I did elementary, theelementary, middle school, split

(28:06):
um in the springtime for thefirst time, and so we happen to
have, I think, a spot in theelementary group.
So I put it out to the familiesand just said, if anybody knows
anybody, well, yep, one of thegirls.
Families said oh my gosh, Ihave somebody who'd be perfect
for it.
And, um, this young lady joinedus.
Um, it's fair to say that she'snative American, and um, and
she joined pretty quiet, um so,but but like she was the one

(28:30):
like ripping around the parkinglot like nonstop, like on her
bike Right.

And so I was like oh yeah, she's my jam.
Like there we go.

And um and joined , had an absolute blast.
And at the end of the sessionno, I lie, I would think it was
like session two Mom sent me oneof the most powerful emails
I've ever gotten about um, justher daughter, um being the first
in her family, um, that hasever mountain biked, um, that
she was like I mean, I getgoosebumps as I tell the story

(28:58):
because she was just talkingabout how just um she, she went
to um, or she, she, she was alittle reticent to join, but
when she did, she said when Isaw coach Jody, the way that she
was dressed in my like jortsand t-shirt- and whatever um,
she said, I realized like I'mreally just a mountain biker
girl.

Like like I doesn't have to be.
Like these are my people, bikergirl.
Like like I doesn't have to be.

Like these are my people, theseare my people, 100% Like these
are my people.
And so, like she can show up inshorts and a t-shirt and
whatever, and it's like, it'stotally cool.
And that's one reason why Idon't like kid up.

Well, I don't get up ever anymore.
But but you know, I don't.

You're not wearing the Lycra, no, exactly,
and so and I do, and I and I'veeven shown up in like regular
kind of like workish pants, youknow, just to show girls that
like you can ride and whatever,but um, but yeah, the the email
was long and it was, it wasextremely powerful and it was
just just thanking me forcreating the space so for her
daughter and then potentiallyfor for others in the future.
Um, so that was that was.

(29:56):
That was pretty awesome, it was.
It was pretty powerful.

So pretty awesome it was.
It was pretty powerful, sothat's good.
Yeah, yeah, that's prettyamazing.
I, I, I.
I had a little taste of thatwhen I ran a junior team and
just seeing those juniorshonestly do something other than
get in trouble, right, you know?
for for me, and I had, one yearslater, contact me and same
thing.
He's like hey man, I'm nowworking for the railroad, I make
all this money, and he was atrisk.
At risk, he was, uh, superclose to being in gangs, like he
didn't even own a bike, so wehad a spare bike that he would
borrow and and it's just get it.

(30:27):
You get that back and it justgives you this spark like you
wouldn't believe, makes you wantto do more so I've.

I have um one one of my riders um.
She self-identifies as a younglady with autism, but she's got
some pretty severe socialanxiety as well right and it's
really powerful when you createa space where the girls wrap
around each other without anyinstruction I don't know how to
explain it like if she likeshe's had, naturally, yeah, like

(30:54):
bikes are down, you know.
I mean bikes are down.
We're like literally physically, like surrounding each other,
um, and I just kind of standback, I'm like I'll, I'll, I'll
be over here if you need me,like you know.
But it's beautiful, it's really.

I'm going to take some pictures.
I'm going to.
No, that's it.
Yeah, it's like it's just it'spretty, it's pretty powerful.

So I've got lots of stories, um so and, and lots
colleges of girls on vacation,shredding you know what I mean
Trails and stuff, and they'relike you know, they so-and-so
wanted me to send this to coachJody, and so it's like you know,
man, oh man, that just makes myheart just like absolutely
burst.
So I'm like what, what academia, you know?

So, jody, you're, you're, you're not only
do you have grow, grow, grow,but you're also coaching adults.
And so I have a, I have aquestion, um, like what do you,
um, what are the key differencesthat you tackle between
coaching young athletes, youngfemale athletes, and adult women
?

Um, what are the differences?
Yeah, what are the keydifferences between the approach
that you no, I'm being I'mbeing serious I brought out my
32nd dance party with, like, agroup of ladies.
I brought it within a co-edgroup and you know, people start
bopping their head and you knowwhatever, and before you know
it, like people are laughing andthey're loosening up.
So I mean, yeah, there might bea little bit different tactics,
but it's.
It's bringing that energy andbringing that passion.

So I started spans ages, it does 100%.

I mean, I think, if, if, if, who doesn't want to
be around somebody who'spassionate about what they do?
So I was.
You know, I was mentioninglistening to the podcast, dana,
when you came on.
So it was like you just talkabout, like, I love bikes.
I'm just like, yeah, like, yeah, like, and you want like, and I
I mean people call me the bikelady, they call me the, you know
whatever.
It's like, yeah, I'd like, Ilove to ride bikes and I love to

(32:37):
teach people how to ride bikesand I love to teach people how
to safely ride bikes and youknow all sorts of good stuff.
It's like heck, yeah.
So I use that same energy in mycoaching business.

So okay, I got a question.
Okay, it's not on our list.

It's okay.

So, as a parent who's got two kids getting into
bikes and my biggest struggleis and this is not just my kids,
this is friends.
You know, josh, we were talkingabout this I have a hard time
teaching, like articulating whatneeds to be said to make it
click in somebody's brain, likewhen you're getting your

(33:09):
coaching certifications.
Is there like a secret menu oflike that you know that that
teaches you that, or are youconstantly evolving how to help
it click with people?
Does that make sense?
And, yes, like the.

Actually the answer is yes, and yes you get
um kind of like keywords youknow that you can use.
I'm going to offer up 30 yearsin education, um, teaching down
in Douglas on the Arizona Mexicoborder, to teaching graduate
students at Montana stateuniversity and sort of
everywhere in between, um hasgiven me a pretty big tool belt
of different.

(33:42):
Like, oh, all, right, we'regoing to go side door, okay,
back window, okay, you know,front door, like we're going to,
I'm going to try all thedifferent strategies.
So I think that that just comesfrom my personal experience,
because I have seen peoplecoaching and and I've seen it
you know it's, it's painfulsometimes.
So when people don't come frommaybe a teaching background or

(34:03):
just there's, there's um likethe nerves are coming through or
whatnot.
But um, I think, just havinghaving having a lot of tools,
I've got a big, pretty bigrepertoire of of of strategies,
um, and also too, that comesfrom working with kids with
disabilities and varyingdisabilities from mild to super
severe.
Um, so, throughout the years,so I've I've I've had to be

(34:23):
adaptable and so I kind of feellike I have a pretty good sense
of reading, sort of the readingthe trail, or reading the room,
or reading the writer.
So an understanding, when, um,I've got some writers who, um,
you know, we, we can picture apicnic bench, right, and you're
putting that front wheel, I'mputting that front wheel up on
that picnic bench, so and you'rea picnic bench right and you're

(34:44):
putting that front wheel I'mputting that front wheel up on
that picnic bench, yeah so, andhaving a rider climb up on there
to to just feel what it's liketo climb, it's scary.
At the first right it's totallyscary.
And of course you know you geta josh who's like okay, that
little pipsqueak woman, you know, I mean she's gonna hold me up
and I'm like yeah, like tara didthat to me, right, right, like
the first thing she did.

She's like put your front wheel I'm like tara I
Tara.
I weigh 300 pounds.
Are you sure you can hold?

me Right, and I and I shout out to my friend
Danny, who I got my coaching, my, my, uh, my mountain bike
instructor coachingcertification with Um, so he's,
he's a big guy, so and and Iknow we were purposefully paired
so and I was like oh shit.
Like oh my God, you know what Imean.
And so I mean I kept themupright and learned, you know,

(35:19):
learned the tactics.
But when I have a rider, youknow, who might be a little,
even just trepidatious, lookingat me, going, okay, she's really
got me and you know whatever.
But then I also have a riderwho, like is, like that's a hard
.
No, you know what I mean?
Like absolutely not.
And so we're putting our wheelup on the curb, right, right.
And so I'm adjusting that wayand not making somebody feel

(35:40):
like that's any less thanputting their wheel up on the
picnic bench, right, because I'mmeeting that rider where
they're at and I think I do areally good job of doing that.
So, um, and just making peoplefeel comfortable, so in that
space, and like you know whatyou're bad-ass cause.
You showed up here, you knowyou're doing your best, so, um,
and there's nothing to beashamed of, no, sorry, um, so,
and, and you know, damn, you putthat wheel up on that curb.

(36:01):
You know what I mean, like aboss, and and and high fives and
all that good stuff.

So, yeah, um positive reinforcement, 100%,
tailoring their approach to theindividual and the and the big
energy.

Right, I mean it's, it's yeah, it's it's.
So there's not just as like asecret word that you give to
everybody that makes them better, unfortunately, no, no, I get a
hypothesis, although I havetold parents, because I've had
parents, you know what I meanthey're like.

Oh, you know my , my daughter doesn't listen to
me.

She won't let me tell her that, and I'm like oh,
it's that magic coach dust thatI sprinkle on them.
I carry it, I carry it in myfanny pack, you know.
Or my snack bag, and you knowwe, we joke about it and it's
like because I'm not their mom,so, but I'm you know that's,
that was what I was going to saymy hypothesis is that our
children listen to us less thanthey'll listen to others.

I mean, is that , is there a fact in that?

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean it's, it's it's
think of, think of teachers, andI'm always fascinated too and
it's kind of dives into like alittle more serious side of the
programming, in a good way, isjust creating that safe,
supported space.
Um, and we do that reallyquickly and before you know it,
mostly, mostly it's middleschool girls.
But they will start to tell,like, about their day and about

(37:13):
their God.
I mean they've shared you knowwhat I mean Some pretty powerful
, sad, you know what I meanStories, and so we've we've just
created a space for the girlsto be able to do that.
But I'm always interested whenthey're like, oh my God, my
science teacher is so awesome.
I'm like, ooh, it makes themawesome.
You know Right and and 100% ofthe time it's like, oh my God,

(37:34):
like he loves science, like he'sso stoked on science, and I'm
like, okay, yeah, right, passionis the thing, like it just
keeps coming through, and I'mlike, oh gee, I have to be
stoked about bikes and stokedabout girls outdoors and
normalizing sweat and you knowall sorts of good stuff, so it's
fricking awesome.

I don't like riding alone in the back country
.
I just don't like it.
I don't feel safe.
Maybe it's animals, maybe it'sguys with banjos, I don know,
but like I don't go farther thanlike 20 miles out by myself.
Okay, um, do you ride alone inthe back country?
Fuck yeah, and what?

would you advise your?
Female students relative toriding alone I, I do, I, I do
ride alone um.
I.
I think I'd mentioned beforemaybe it was um earlier, I mean
when we were on break but but I,I rode from from our house, so
here in East Tucson to Patagonia, by myself, nice.

How far is that ?

Like 90 fucking miles.

Is it really 90 miles?
It is Really Well cause.

I was on all single track I was on the
Arizona trail, yeah.
So and I was on a single speed.

I know that shocks you all, but you know
what I mean.
Which?

really meant, which really meant that I hiked
for 90 miles.

I was going to say it shocks me, because I've
seen some of the hills on theair.

Yes, exactly, which means I, I did a whole lot
of hiking, for you know what Imean For, for that, for that
time.
But that and uh, and I,admittedly, was terrified when I
first thought of, thought ofthat, and but I'm also in a
space of, and this kind of divesinto, like my personal, um, you

(39:07):
know, I lost my mom 14 yearsago to the complications of
anorexia, and um, and like mymom never would have been on a
mountain bike like ever, and andso it's like I didn't start
riding until I was 41.
And so it's like wait, you'renot four.

You're older than I'm only.
I'm only 42.
Yeah, writing for a year,perfect, actually, I'm 26.
I know exactly.

I know exactly, actually, I'm 26.
I started writing at 41.
Go ahead, figure that, math out.
No but, but, um, but I Iactually started writing when my
mom died, um, and it was induring my doctoral program and
whatever it's like.
But I I sort of like honor herby doing these like badass
things that scare me a bit yeahor scare me a lot.
Um.
So I will never forget, when Iwas getting ready to do the

(39:50):
patagonia push, um, it was thelast night of our spring session
, and so I showed up to topractice, or to our we don't
call practice, we call it ouradventures.
So, because I like that word, Ijust think that that, just it's
better than practice right welland it just like.
Practice implies like the drilland skills, but, um, no, we
adventure like and we just, andwe might ride a mile, we, but we

(40:11):
eat snacks and we love snacksand we do a lot of snacking.
So, um, and that's, that's mylove, language is like the
snacking, yeah I mean just mean,just for the record.

Jodi rode here on her bike and she pulls out.
She starts pulling out allthese things.
I'm like where the fuck did youfit all that stuff in on her
bike?
And she's got like a whole bagfull of snacks I have enough to
keep me like if I, if I don'tmake it home tonight, I can.

I can survive for three days.

It's like a depression era, grandma era
grandma.
I got ketchup packets and allsorts of stuff in there right
packed full of canned food, incase there's a depression
exactly my green, my green beansand whatnot.

But um, no, but I showed up to practice um with
my bike fully loaded and I didit on purpose, because I wanted
the girls to see, and so thegirls were just absolutely like
what?

is that like?

what is that?
Like you know, and I'm like,well, there's my sleeping bag
and there's my tent, and thereor I don't have a tent I have a
baby.
But, like you know, and likethere's my food, and they're
like what?
And I'm like, yeah, I'm likeI'm gonna leave you and I'm, you
know, I'm gonna say goodbye toyour parents.
Then I'm gonna ride down thearizona trail towards camino,
malta, so I'm just camp on that,just on the other side of the
park, so, and they're likeyou're going to sleep out there.

And I'm like yeah.

I am so um and so I mean, I think, just being
just being that role model.
So for for the girls we, um,when I was with, or when, when
grow grow grow was under theArizona trail association, um, I
had the opportunity to workreally closely with gear girls,
which is very similar program upin Flagstaff, yeah.
Um, you're thinking of girls ingear?

(41:43):
That's yeah, and that's um.
I know her as well.
She's super rad.

They do road bikes though.
Yeah, Um their clothes matchtheir bike.

Yes, but um, but, um, but Mackenzie, who runs
gear girls, which is up inFlagstaff, um, she's like my
work wife BFF, just love her.
And um, we used to callourselves like the book and the
state.
We would book in the state withthese girls programs and we
created these girls camps and so, like, a long-winded answer is

(42:08):
like fuck, yeah, I've been outthere by myself.
Have I been scared, absolutely.
Have I not slept, you know?
Because, like eyes are wideopen, because I know I heard
something.


Absolutely, but is it like the most powerful
thing to like wake up and likeyou look and I'm like I have
everything I need?

like right here , like on, like everything that
I need is on my bike sidearmwith you no, no, no no yeah, I
can't even like fathom that,like if I go ride just like a
day ride from there because ofall the things I've run into.

Right, I carry a sidearm yeah just wow yeah
you're more badass than me, jody.
I'm, I'm, I know, right, joshman, I had a girl I get free.

Okay, chad, now she's gonna punch me trail chad
poking the bear exactly I knowhe's gonna get kicked, yeah so
yeah, I can't.

I can't do that like I.
Night rides are my thingbecause of Arizona and the heat
and everything, and just eat.
I can't ride by myself at night.
So being out in the middle ofthe desert camping by myself, I
don't, I wouldn't find thatpeaceful, I'd find it like super
stressful.

Yeah, after I saw a Jaguar four miles from
where we're sitting right here.

Yeah, I'm like yeah, I think if there was two
of us cause then yeah, I thinkif there was two of us cause,
then, and as long as I couldoutrun the other one, I think
we're good.

Totally, you're going to win.
I know he's going to win.
Exactly, yep, yep, that'sthat's what it needs to be.
All right, Jody.
Hey, what would you changeabout the mountain bike scene
these days?

Ooh, I, I, we need to get more women in the
industry.
We, we, we do Um, and and Imean I have.
I mean I, I was a specialeducation teacher and then I
went and got my PhD and then Iwas a faculty member and now I
run a nonprofit and I have acoaching business and I coach
adults and youth and men andwomen and children and like, do

(44:01):
all these things and like, now Iwant to go to like a bike
mechanic school because I wantto be a bike mechanic, so, and
then I'm going to go backfitting school because I want to
be a bike fitter, maybe notjust riding bikes, so it's

(44:28):
whether they want to wrench orrun a bike shop or be a bike
fitter or all of the above.
So I think, just, we need to doa better job of creating
genuine space, not at a girl'sspace, um, not token space, but,
uh, creating real space for,for girls, um, whether it be
through mentorships orinternships.
That was with grow, girl, grow.

(44:49):
My vision is to create mentor,girl, mentor, and I have it all
mapped out.
I know this shocks you, so Ihave it all mapped out, with
research cited, you know, andall that good stuff, but um, no,
but it's, but it's um just theresearch behind creating
mentoring spaces and givinggirls the opportunity to be in
leadership roles, and one of thethings that the girls will do

(45:10):
is they will do a communityleadership project or community
give back project, and I reallywould love it to be related to
like work in a bike shop or likea, like an internship, um, you
know, in a bike shop or like alike an internship, you know, in
a bike shop where girls couldbe exposed to.
So the behind the scenes.

She's like looking really closely at you.

I know Like laser vision, Dana, so I'll be.
I'll be knocking on your doortomorrow.

She's the only person I ever met that calls you
Dana.

Oh, a lot of people do.

Yeah, so I haven't heard it yet it's.

It's weird because I for a while, because
it was my facebook profile yeahI knew if somebody knew me
through facebook they would callme dana, and if they knew me
outside of facebook they'd callme dane.

And that's just because I didn't get onto
facebook later and my I've justalways been called something
else so I've been called a lotof things you introduce yourself
to me as dane soane, so that'swhat I went with.

That's usually what I get, but on your, on your
, so like, while you weretalking about women being
included and I, you know, mybrain goes through a bunch of
processes, which is weird.
I'm just sitting here listeningto you and my brain is just
like clicking here and there.
And one of the first thingsthat I remembered is one of my

(46:23):
first bike shop jobs.
I worked at um, a place calledsabino cycles in town, and it
was owned by a guy named mac andhis wife, kate, and I remember
my first week there.
I didn't get anything from mache's a great guy, by the way but
kate showed me around, taughtme this stuff, and I will tell
you that that lady, she taughtme more than a lot of the people
I've worked for and I wasreally impressed.
One of the first things is shetaught me was don't talk down to

(46:46):
women, don't don't talk to themany different than you would
talk to your friend, you know.
And then she said not all womenwant pink, but some do, which
which confused me.
But it was true, right, rightand, but she was like Right,
right and, uh, but she was likeso good at um, kind of stressing
.
And this is decades ago, sothis is not a new thing.

(47:08):
You know about getting womeninvolved in and bringing them
into bike shops and I was justlike hey, that stuck with me,
that mentorship that she gave meactually stuck with me and I
feel that I've done a prettygood job of trying to keep that
forward in my life.
But I will agree that there'snot a lot of women in psych.

(47:29):
The reason I bring this up isagain, my, my brain is clicking.
I don't have any women, but Iknow jen at transit of course, I
know I know like I know a lotlike alex, who we from Norco.
Like there's, there's, so likethey're, they're there, but I,
you know, I, I, we need moreRight.

So we have the same problem in the defense
industry and this is what Ican't figure out Right, like the
, you can tell me if this is,this is the right approach.
Like, I open up a requisitionand I make sure that I have a
representative slate ofcandidates they're all qualified
and then I pick the bestcandidate.
Sometimes I pick a dude,sometimes I pick a girl, I pick

(48:06):
whoever's the best candidate andto me that's the best approach.
But I force the representativeslate and if I don't have a
capable, competitive female onthe slate, I won't go forward
until I do Nice, that to me islike the best approach and they
don't always win and I'm notgoing to hire them just because
they're a girl and hire the best.

(48:28):
But I mean, is that the rightapproach?
Like what?
What would you recommend?

I would say yes, I mean, I, I feel like that
that's the, I feel like that isthe right approach, the if we
want to get all researchy, know,we we kind of ticked off some,
some stats about girls, um, andmostly teen and tween girls,
which is what I'm reallytargeting with.
Grow, grow, grow.
But um, I read this reallyreally sad study that talked
about 71 percent of women whoare in the bike industry leave

(48:55):
the industry yeah and and youcan cite bro culture bro,
culture, like you name it.
Right, you know what I mean.
It's.
It's like, and so not all womenhave big.
You know what's.
You know what I mean To like.
Hang in there and you know, andI'm, I happen to be one of
those, like you know, whatever,like you can, bro dude, and
whatever you know, cause I'lltoss it right back at you.
I know that shocks you, butthere's no, you know what I mean

(49:24):
.
There's, thank God, there's.

Like Melissa, you know what I mean From Ajo
bikes you know, but I mean still, but there's like I think she
got gears, it's just well forLeadville, she got gears for
Leadville, I know, but youshould have gears for level,
just for the record.

Right, no, um, no , but I mean but, but I mean the
number of women just in theindustry, you know, I mean is is
so small.
Yeah, so, and and when we lookat the mountain biking community
, it's like, you know, we've gotthis mountain biking community.
That's a small subculture, andthen you've got, like, this
little group of women over here,and so I feel like, grow, grow,
grow.
I'm doing my part to like like,fill, fill that up and coming
um group group, you know what Imean and and and get more girls,

(50:04):
women, staying in the industrytoo.
So, um, and I think, by givingthem exposure to and I'm looking
at Dana, like, but seriously,by giving them exposure to like
this is, this is how we wrenchon a bike and this is how we I
mean my husband, god help me, orGod help him, he's a bike
mechanic and I went to go changefrom my clipless pedals to
flats today and and he, do youwant me to do that?

(50:29):
I was like no, I don't, like, Iwould rather struggle with it.
You know what I mean For asecond.
So, and I did it, you know whatI mean, of course.
Then I probably like, textedhim the picture and I'm just
like done, you know, now I'm atpeace out for my bike ride.
But you know, but I think it'sthat you know, I think our
society does lean into like, oh,let me go help, no-transcript.

(51:09):
So we learn how to put in tirepressure, put air in our tires,
and we learn, you know, allthose kinds of things because
knowledge is powerful.
And so I think, just justcreating that space.
I think also too and I knowit's super cliche, but I think
it's really fitting, for this islike attracts, like you know,
and and and a lot of women, um,you know, can walk into a bike

(51:30):
shop and they see a bunch of brodudes back there Like they're
turning around and walking rightback out.

Right, because oftentimes I'm not saying always
not you, dana but, no, but, no,but, but, but I mean, you get
somebody that comes in like youknow what do you mean?

one by what you know, whatever, like they you
know, and like this lingo getsthrown out and they don't know.
So, and whatnot.
And so, um, I think just evenjust walking into a bike shop
and just seeing another woman orseeing a young lady there, so
just just instantly, would wouldcreate some comfort for people,
for women.

And then, um, and then just, I don't know just
, I think your program is goingto do more good than anything,
Cause you have to start at thatbase level younger, like
mentality, and and that'simportant.
I think you know my story aboutKate and and how she kind of
changed the way I do.
Things has stayed with me andthat the more that happens, so I

(52:21):
think it's going to always getbetter.
Um, I do feel like there's justnot enough Like we don't get
like hardly I don't know if I'veever had a applicant, you know,
Um, and it's not because we'renot looking, it's.
It's just I think there's apercentage you know of, of guys
versus girls in this industry,and it's not necessarily on

(52:43):
purpose, but there's lots ofthings that can change, Like,
for instance, one guy workingwith a woman getting a different
perspective because of it, andthen now I, hopefully, am
treating women differently inthe shop.
I hope so.
Like, shout out, if I'm not, ifI'm a total jerk, just you just
tell me.

But for the most part, like I'm going to come
audit Dana's shop, just sitthere and just watch and put a
disguise on.

She's going to come in with a mustache.

Just don't talk to Carlos.

Yeah, Uh mentioned.

Carlos, okay, all right, all right.

But uh, seriously, it's like it, that
little interaction, that thatexperience with that owner, and
she definitely changed me Right,and if it's not there it's
harder.
You know, it's not like I'mrunning around being a male
chauvinist or anything withouther, it's just that in general
she really kind of clicked, youknow, and that that's what we
need and I we need more of that.

(53:35):
You know, again, I'm listeningto a podcast with the NBDA,
which Heather Mason took on.
I don't know if you guys knowher or if you've heard of her,
but NBDA is an organization thathelps bike shops.
It helps us try and get betterand she is doing big pushes for
that and it's really inspiringto listen to her.

She's a great voice.
You should share that podcastwith Jodi, she would dig that.

And she'd be a great one to get in contact with
because, she's always trying toget more and more women in the
sport, even though she's reallyrepresenting this, uh, an
organization that serviceseverybody.
It's not meant to be women'sonly, or anything, uh, but she's
such a good advocate and agreat example.
She owned a bike shop, sheraces bikes, so she's great.
She was one of our reps forEddie Marks and for Bianchi.
So, great great lady.

We got this problem and I don't know if it
happens in the bike industry aswell.
But in defense, like, there'sthis thing where, like, if I
look at a requisition for anopen job and I see a list of 10
things that are required and Ican crush it on two of them and
eight of them I have no fuckingclue about.
I'm like I'm the perfectcandidate, totally, totally.

(54:43):
And if in and I've, I've taught, I've coached like other and
you've been through this too butI've coached like other women
and they're like well, I onlyhave two of the eight things I'm
like, but you got two of theeight things go get it right
right, and it's just a differentmentality, so it's like, right,
right from jody's first thing,don't say I'm sorry.

right like that is teaching a whole generation
of of girls to have a bettermentality, to to be stronger and
to be, um, just be able to takemore of what they need, you
know, from life, which is great,and that's something that we
need not just in grow, girl grow, but we need it in our schools,
we need it in, uh, bandpractice.

(55:18):
We need, I mean, likeeverything, jilly's in
volleyball, right, you know,like all of these things you
know need those things startedfrom the basics so that they
grow up a different way Becauseyou know the traditions and
stuff like habits.
What am I thinking of?
So, like there's stuff thatyour parents teach you.

(55:38):
I do stuff that my mom did noton purpose.

And I'm like, I realize I'm doing something.

We are our parents, right, right, and
that's because, oh, I know, andso so that happened, right, so
that's two generations now doingthe same thing and I have to
actively change that if I wantmy next generation I have to
teach it different well, andyou've got that's very slow
change and then you havesocietal norms, you know what.

So like overarching or undergirding,
whatever way you want to look atit.
And so, um, I, I saw thisfantastic, uh, I don't know what
you would call it, but somebodyexplained.
They said, you know, here'ssociety, and it was like a big
rectangle.
That literally made thisrectangle and they said boys,
men, young men, you know whatnot?
Like society says take up allthis space.
Like you can be as big as youwant.

(56:22):
Like take up, take up all thisspace.
And girls and women, likeyou're going to be over here and
you're going to be in this,like lower right-hand corner,
and, Ooh, if you're big, remindme to tell you a story about
being big.
Um, if you're big, then you'reconsidered boisterous, or you're
considered obnoxious, or you'reconsidered you know what I mean
.
Right, exactly so.

(56:43):
Um, and my thing is and I tellparents this when they sign up
for grow grow, grow is like Iwant girls to know that they can
take up as much or as littlespace as they want, like they
have that choice but it's theirdecision.
But it's their decision, exactly.
And so I have been told myentire um, academic, um, life or

(57:03):
career, um, and even as ateacher, to literally have been
told to temper the jody and like, no, you know what, if you
don't like the jody, then that'syour problem, that's not my
problem.
And so I, literally, though,like all through academia, you
know it's all like, oh, you needto, you need to, you need to
kind of temper, you need totemper that Jodi.
And I'm like, no, I don't know,I'm passionate, I'm, I'm, I'm

(57:27):
excited, I love life, I'm likego big or go home, I mean,
that's just, that's just me,that's my personality.
And if you don't like that,that's okay.
But you know what, there aresome days when I do want to.
So be quiet, or whatever.
And and for the girls thataren't big, you know what I mean
, like what John calls me, liketiny but mighty you know what I
mean.

It's like, jody , you walk into a room.

It's like oh you know, but but that's just my
personality, like that's just,that's just me, and it's like,
if you don't like that, that'syour right way to be, but you
are the right way that you.

I'm the right.
I'm the right for me, I'm theright for me, and you'd be there
for you.

Right, and and and and you choose.
But it's your choice to take upthat space or not.

So whatever you want to do, so what like okay,
we have an underrepresentedunder Like, if like follows like
, like, how the fuck do wechange it?
Well, so do I?
Do I give stretch assignmentsand put people?

(58:30):
Do I choose the the un you know, or or maybe slightly less
qualified female so I can getmore representation?
Like what do you do?
I don't know what the rightapproach is.

Well, I mean, dana, I think you you hit the
nail on the head and it I meanI'm not saying like grow, grow,
grow is like the cure all hitthe nail on the head and I mean
I'm not saying like grow, grow,grow is like the cure all.
Maybe it is, I don't know, butbut you need to have mountain
biking.

No, but I'm saying they should have they
should all ride mountain bikes.

I mean, it does build confidence, for sure,
right.

But it's, but it's um, but it's starting at
that down to K two, before Imove up to high school.
Yeah, so, because my attitudeis, if I get the like, if I get
them, really you know what I?

mean Really young, like I can imagine a
first grader being like.

I know, right, you know, to the trail, chad.
He's like on the trail, youknow.
So I'll be like, yeah, you gogirl, but, um, but it's starting
them young.
It's like we, it's.
It's going to take a process,you know, but I think it's it's
being part of that solution.
It's like these women are notmagically going to appear with
like these.
You know what I mean, all thesecredentials for you know what I
mean For your jobs.
But if we're looking at middleschool I almost said junior high
school, dating myself there butlike we're looking at middle

(59:40):
schools and elementary schools,you know, and creating
opportunities for for girls, youknow what I mean To to
experience the sciences orwhatever it is, um, I think
that's that's where it's got tostart, like that's how the
pipeline changes.

Yeah, that's kind of how society changes,
like you can't just expecteverybody to turn on a dime.

Evolution.
Evolution, not revolution.

Yeah and so, but it's small little things
that do it all throughout.
You know their lives will makea big difference and so if they
only see Jody once and then it'snever supported, you know it'll
go away and and.
But on your point, you can'texpect somebody who's lived 30
years you know 40 years,whatever to just change on a

(01:00:22):
dime.
Yeah, you can ask them, youknow, and they can try, but you
just can't expect it to happen.

Magellan (Josh) (01:00:28):
So I'll keep sponsoring.

The Guru (Dane) (01:00:29):
Yeah, you keep doing what you're doing.

I got a representative slate and I'll
keep picking the best candidate,because over time I'll have a
bigger, you know, and becauseyour awareness of trying to to
make.

That is a step and it also shows you know in
the future.
If you know, if your boss evercame to you and said, hey, why'd
you hire them?
Well, you know in the future.
If you know, if your boss evercame to you and said, hey, why'd
you hire them?
Well, I was trying to get alittle more diversity, you know,
and I was working at it.
Nobody's going to fault you forthat, you know, um, well, isn't
it?

Dr. Jody Batz (01:00:54):
the same too Is it was it Gandhi that said be
the change.

Yeah, I mean it's like.
I mean that's that's that'sjust it.

It's like you you , for lack of better words, you
know, like knowing that you aredoing the right things, you're
advocating you're, you know,you're an ally, you're trying,
exactly Like you're trying, andso it's like you know you could
just turn a blind eye and belike, oh, my industry sucks, and
you know I mean it's no, youknow I can't do anything about
it.
It's like that's the worstthing you can do.
So, but, um, but also'm, youknow kind of leaning into, like,

(01:01:24):
even like the disabilityconversation, so, and and
hearing people still use theword retarded or something, and
I'm just like like I, you knowmy head spins around so and I'm
like, please don't use that word.
Like that is not an appropriateword, has not?
It's like so and don't use thedo so you know and please, you
know, please, please, don't usethat but it's going forward but

(01:01:50):
it's.
But then it's, it's gotta bevery cognizant, it's kind of
gotta be on the refresh.

So so I'm seeing in our society lately
there's a lot of knee jerkreactions and so like and so you
say something like hey, youshouldn't say that, then will
knee jerk right that.
yeah, because you're kind ofattacking them and that's
difficult to deal with, right,right, um, but what I?
What does bug the crap out ofme is the uh, the memes online

(01:02:17):
where they'll yeah, they'll, belike oh, you know what I, you
know, I, I'm fine and I didn'thave seat belts and I drank out
of a, you know, out of a hose,you know, you mean like those
those ones where people are justlike you know what I'm, just
I'm, I'm perfectly fine and Idon't have to.
Uh, I, you know, I stayed atthe park all night, you know, or
whatever they are, and I'm justlike yeah, you know, seatbelts

(01:02:39):
save lives, you know, like you,you gotta realize there are some
changes that you need to make.
I don't drink out of the hoseanymore, right?
I did when I was a kid, but butI would you know I mean only
when I'm bike packing yeah, like, but you know I mean so like,
like some of that stuff.
People just they need to dochange, but they need to do it
at their pace and they need tonot feel attacked for it to be a

(01:03:02):
good change and that's the hardpart.
That's the hard part we all haveto deal with because, like we
said earlier, it it's notnecessarily what you say, it's
how you say it, right, and ifyou're well, and people get
defensive when they, you know,we can talk about.

You know, maturity does not always rate to
age.

So, and, and we can definitely not definitely
not in this room for sure, youknow 29 and I act like you're 72
.

Exactly right, I thought he was 78.
All right, so is theappropriate term special needs.

Is that the appropriate accepted term?
Is that okay, you know?

I, I will offer up that.
The appropriate term iswhatever the individual chooses,
okay, so, um, you know therewas.
There was a big, bigconversation many, many years
ago about person first language,and we can get into this whole
conversation around um, you knowthe person, not the disability.
You see the person, you knowthat's not the autistic kid.
So um it's a kid, his name isJohnny or you know whatever.

(01:03:56):
It is Um.
But then you really like we'restarting, you can start to get
into the weeds.
Welcome to my PhD of like, justum.
Like, especially in the autismcommunity, so people choose
their identity.
So as um, like, especially inthe autism community, so people
choose their identity.
So, as I choose to identify asautistic, you know, I choose to
identify as a mountain biker youknow, whatever it might be and
so that you know.
So it's identity, and so what Iwill say that I have leaned into

(01:04:18):
is respectful um respectfullanguage.
So it's it's.
And if that person wants person, first language, that's what I,
that's what I use.
If that person wants identity,first language, that's what I,
that's what I use.
If that person wants identity,first language, that's what I
use.
But guess what you can ask them, like you can say hey how
should I refer to this Exactly,you?
Know what.
I mean you know what's yourname?

I mean I'm such a uh, I don't want to say jerk,
I'm such a, totally, whenever Imeet somebody that has, either,
let's say, a disability or, um,just in general, is different
from me, I want to know morelike, and I feel like weird
because, uh, we, we were doing,we were wrenching on a couple of

(01:04:57):
guys, uh, hand cycles, uh, sothey're, they're athletes, you
know, they don't have the use oftheir legs and we're working on
them and I'm just geeking outon their bikes 'm like this is
so cool, we could do this withyour bike.
You know, I'm trying to putwireless on their bikes.
So they don't have these cablesmoving around on their hand,
cycles and and, uh, you know, Ijust it's, it's.
I'm very naive when I talk topeople because I'm like oh so

(01:05:18):
what do you do with your legs?
Like, and that's not meant tobe in right any way.
I'm just curious like how doesthis work, or, you know, like
it's just I just want to knowyeah.
I'm like a five-year-old.

You know, what Don't lose that.

Don't lose that Because I and I mean I think in
all my years of experience.
So, um like, like ask thequestions.

So you know.

I mean, I've never had anybody be like you
know how dare you ask?
It's like thank you for youknow me for asking, because that
shows a genuine interest and agenuine concern for that person.
Yeah, so, whether it was mystudent or my, you know what I
mean, whoever it was.
It's like, um, I'm not askingto be a jerk, I just I want to
know and like what's the bestway for me to?
support you, so, and I mean,like that comes from a teaching

(01:05:58):
background, so, but then when Ithen to everybody, so right, but
it's, but it's.
But that was what I wouldalways tell them is is, is I?
Well, and I, I, I did, I landedon respectful language and
that's just what's comfortablefor me, because, recognizing
that some people, particularlyin the autism community and the

(01:06:19):
deaf community, so, um, peoplewill identify, so, as their
their identity is autistic orthe identity is deaf, um, and
that's a whole side conversation, another podcast, but, um, but
just asking, so, just just howwould you like me to refer to
you?
So?

all right?
Final question for you, Jody.

Oh boy.

And it's a repeat of a question we asked
you in February of 2023.

Oh gosh.

But I got a little preamble here here.
Okay, so like we've challenged,uh, each of our listeners and
ourselves to help, um, bring atleast one or more new rider into
the sport.
Like we want to grow the sportRight and so we're actively
working and I'm spending asignificant amount of time doing
that myself is like bringingother people into the sport.
Nice, and in episode 29, weasked you like what can we do to
help get more females into thesport?
And you gave us three answers.
The first thing you said is I'mjust getting started out.

(01:07:13):
I'm just starting out.
Ask me later.
That was the first answer.

Second answer you said get out of the way.

But the third thing you said was help amplify
our voice.
Um, so I want to ask you againsame question.
You've been doing this now forlike you know what 18 months or
whatever like.
What can we do to help get morefemales into the sport?

It's funny when you said that the first thing
that went through my head is getout of the way.

You have not evolved.

I know I have regressed, no, I I mean move
over.
So like, like you know RonBertrand, you guys may know him
writer here in town.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, we just have this huge joke.
Whenever we've ridden together,we've we've raced together.
On your left, I've, I've passedhim and so, like, when I see him

(01:08:15):
, I'm like on your left and he'slike you know, like just jokes,
I mean totally jokes, but it'slike like move over so we can
pass on the left, um, but also Iwould.
I would second my statementabout um creating opportunities
to amplify our voices.
And so when, when you hear um afamily moves in the
neighborhood and they havedaughters, like share about grow
, grow, grow right.
And and you know and and andshare.
You know, share opportunities.
My daughter was involved withyou know in it.
Um so or or I know of, orhere's, you know, here's
somebody to connect with.
So I think just just sharingthat and sort of that rising

(01:08:37):
tide lifts all ships and so justjust that to me is like
amplifying the voices.
Um, I can't use the excuse thatI've only been doing, you know,
just just getting started.
Um.
So I think, just to becompletely honest, like when I
texted you or you texted me orwe were thinking about texting
each other, it was like kind ofthis, like weird creepy sort of
thing.
You're like creepy last time.

I know you called me creepy, I know you
cause you are creepy, but uh,but I think this is messed up.

Man.
Hey, hey, hey, hey, listen,listen, josh, she's not wrong,
look, look who's talking.

dana rough day man I'm sorry, dude, I've just
come back.

That hurt me, for like that hurt me for like
weeks.
I'm like oh my god I'm serious,like jody thinks I'm creepy.
Like what am I doing?

like no did he like reach out out of the blue?
No, she reached out first no, Ireached out, I did.

Exactly yeah, so that's kind of creepy Like stop
her.
No, I reached out, and then yousaid oh my gosh, I was just
thinking about you.

You know what I ?

mean.
Like reaching out, so it waslike serendipitous that we came
together.

Not creepy at all, not creepy.

It's said that.
Yes, did he go?
I was just thinking about it.
He said it in text.

He said it, however I can interpret it.
Yeah, I said I was dating.
I was just talking aboutbringing you on the street.

But I, but I think that, um, I reached out to
you because, um, I had thisidea, um, I called my executive
meetings in the middle of thenight, and so, like hello,
menopause, and you know I meanand owning a business and
running a business and creatinga nonprofit.
You know your mind, like youknow, in the middle of the night
come up with these great ideas.
But I had this idea, um, aboutcreating a podcast for my girls

(01:10:18):
and just creating space.
And I'm like, because the shitthey say is hysterical, Like it
is absolutely hysterical, andthey will be like peddling along
and they're like motor mouthsand like motor legs and, like
you know, you just hear all thisstuff and like we will just sit
there and like all just look ateach other Like I don't even
know what to say.
You know what I mean, and sothen they'll school us on like

(01:10:40):
the, the words to you.
Like I mean it's just, it's,it's awesome and and it's so fun
, and so I thought the worldneeds more of that.
Like they need to hear theselike little snippets.
So that's why I reached out toyou and so maybe my first, you
know, or instead of, I've onlybeen doing this is like helping
me find a way to amplify mygirls voices so, so let's start.

I mean, if you're cool with it, let's start
by getting them on this showtotally and go wild.
You can host it.

Okay, danny, and I will sit in the background.

Okay, you guys will be cracking up.
We'll put that out as long aswe're not creepy.

No, yeah right, no, they'll put you in your
place as long as we're notcreepy.

Yeah, that'll help.
We'll have to bring on dancebuttons.

Yes, but then I'm happy to coach mentor, share
, coach mentor like share theknowledge that I have relative
to all the stuff that we'velearned and setting it up, and
then equipment and the onlinestuff and editing and all that
stuff, that would be so awesome.
All right, so let me give ashout out.
We have a couple of people inthe room that we have not
mentioned and have not talked,and so I just want to, just want
to you know, say thanks tothese folks.

(01:11:40):
So we have Ryan Cook there.
Ryan's a senior at Micah highschool and Ryan's going through
his senior year right now andit's got to do a senior exit
project and he asked if he coulddo it on the podcast, and so
today's the first day that we'veengaged with Ryan and he got to
sit.
Probably he's like Jesus dad,why?

did you do this?
He's traumatized.
I promise you won't have to sitthrough another recording again
, right.

And this is like seven hours worth of credit
as far as I'm concerned.
So, but yeah.
So kudos to Ryan.
I love your fucking shoes.
Those are awesome, I know.

They match the mic colors.

I'm colorblind so I didn't notice that, but
those are sick.
Are those Jordan's Air ForceOnes?
What are those?
Yeah, which one?
I didn't hear you Jordan's?
Okay, yeah, those are sick, Ilike that.
And then, uh, his dad, his dadMark, uh, and then Sonya, his
mom, was here.
Anyways, kudos, thanks forcoming.

This is awesome, jody do you have any final words
for our guests or for ourlisteners?
Oh, man, um, just just watchwhat we're doing.
So just um, we're one.
We're on the gram, so we're onon Facebook, so I, um I.

I want to share what those are.

Yeah, so, um, we're grow girl, grow G R O girl
, g I R L G R O.
So grow girl, grow um.
Facebook, instagram, Um, we,just we, we put.
Everything that we put outthere is just, it's real and
it's authentic.
I, I, I stopped, I.
I've got a whole slew of badbadass lady coaches across the

(01:13:08):
country that I connect with, anda big conversation a number of
years ago was about social mediaand man, oh man, my type, a OCD
PhD personality used to sitthere and perseverate on the you
know what I mean like, oh, isit the right reel and is it the
right song?

and just blast it like right and I'm just like
you know what.

I gave up that like first of all, just for time
, but also, too, I'm just likeyou know what.
I gave up that like first ofall just for time, but also to
I'm just like I just put out theraw and real, and it's like
sometimes I posted the samepicture twice.
Whatever I'm like, I don't care, it's like, it's just.
This is what we're.
We're 32nd dance partying,we're snacking, we wear
mismatched socks, and so we dothat because we can, because
it's silly and it's fun, and,like you'll see my girls in
jorts and mishmat socks, it'sfricking awesome.

(01:13:46):
So, um, we're, we're excited togrow.
Um, we're going to have umthree overnight camps one in
October, one in November, one inDecember.

So I'll get for international listeners.
That makes sense in the in theclimate exactly in the desert
exactly.

And so the girls will learn how to bike pack,
which means kind of loading,loading up their bike Um, it'll
be a semi-supported, but we'llgo for about an eight to 10 mile
mountain bike ride and then, uh, set up tents and, and they
have to phone each other beforethey phone an adult.
So, to set up tents and and setup kitchen and and and kind of
come, you know, come togetherwith the flow of the kitchen and

(01:14:23):
who's doing what and cleaningup dishes and all sorts of good
stuff, um, and so then we'll, uh, we'll, the next day we'll do
some trail stewardship, thatmaintenance, trail maintenance.
So I'm just teaching the girlsabout we use the trails but then
we give back.
So to the trails, you know aswell.

So, um, so, I think just, I think, just just
keeping an eye, you knowwatching us on Instagram.

We have a YouTube channel, which is like I feel
so fancy pants.
So I'm like wow, so, um, andGod bless, like amazing women in
my life who've stepped forwardand just offered to help, and so
, um, have had people help mewith website design and and and
YouTube channel and all sorts ofgood stuff, and so, um, we do.
We try to keep keep thoseupdated.
So we're not on, we're not onTikTok and I'm just not sure I'm
going to go there quite yet.
But you've got to curb thesocials at some point in time,

(01:15:11):
right yeah for sure.
But yeah, I think, just keep aneye on what we're doing.
So we're always looking fordonations.
Of course it's a nonprofit.
We keep our costs.

Do you have a donation link on your page?
We do.

yeah, it's on our website so you can go straight
to donate.
Um, we, I'm super stoked.
We got a very generous donationof a cargo van donated.
So to to, yeah, which is reallyawesome, and it's actually like
semi built out, you know, tocamp in, and so, um, I won't, I
won't be hauling any girls, soin it.
But um, money to wrap thewindows.

(01:15:50):
So, with our logo and theTucson community stepped up and
we raised all the money, so towrap our windows.

So, cirrus, visual local business is going
to do it for us.

Yeah, so.
So Chris and Brad have beenfantastic over there and so
we're going to and it's kind oflike our mobile um, we're
calling it like our mobileclubhouse or a mobile, you know,
I mean um spot, so that way wecan sort of move around Tucson.
And I want it to be sort oflike when the girls see the van,
you know, like they see theguru bikes, you know van is like
like you know, and so when it'sat the, at the trailhead, the

(01:16:16):
biggest thing we're having adifficult time with this coming
up with the fun tagline.

And so I.

I don't think that, like where girls can rule
the world, would be appropriate.

But um you know , sure you can figure out, yeah.

So we've, we've got um our board of directors,
we're having some good dialogueabout just some some fun things
and and, uh, one of them, one ofthe one of the front runners,
is girls rule and confidenceleads, and so, um of we don't
want it to be like confidence,community connection.
You know cause people like whatis that?
So it was like we want it to besomething sort of fun, you know.

(01:16:50):
But but about the girls?
So we'll, we'll, we'll see.
But yeah, the van will bewrapped here pretty soon, so I'm
pretty stoked about that.

Awesome.
Well, jody, thanks for ridingyour bike over spending some
time with us.
Good to see you again.
18 months.
I know exactly my.

PTSD kicked in For sure.

Ryan, thanks for coming out.
Mark, thanks for coming out.
Thanks so much.
I love you, man.
Yeah.

You too.

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082 - The Impact of Female Role Models in Mountain Biking: Conversation with Dr. Jody Bartz

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}082 - The Impact of Female Role Models in Mountain Biking: Conversation with Dr. Jody Bartz