January 29, 2025 • 46 mins
Join Lynn Hoffman for this episode with Matty and Charity for the amazing indie/folk/alternative band The Head and The Heart. You'll love the conversation where they talk about their new music, their influences, the band chemistry and why music is a saving grace for them. Their new song is called "Arrow" and you'll gain a deeper understanding of where the band has been and where they are going.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Music Saved Me.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
It's a Fleetwood Macian process. When we're.
Speaker 3 (00:05):
At a lot of songs you can kind of are
grappling with infraband dynamics to be fit, to be honest,
you know, and you're finding nuggets of truth in things
that you're learning, and you're learning from each other, and
there's just as much value in that as there is
in a personal relationship or some other experience that you
went through that inspired you. And because you mentioned we
(00:29):
spent so much time together, that is literally like it
does end up becoming a part of like what occupies our.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Minds and what we're processing and going through.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
I'm Lyn Hoffman and welcome to the Music Save Me podcast,
the podcast that explores the deep healing forces of music. Now,
if you like this podcast, thank you, and please share
with your friends and don't forget to follow so you
never miss an episode. I'm so grateful today I get
to speak with Matt Jervase and Charity Rose Deelin from
the American indie folk band Head and the Heart. Maddie
(01:02):
and Charity, welcome to Music Save Me. This is a
big thrill for us.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Thank you, thank you for having us.
Speaker 5 (01:07):
Yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
All right, So first I want to ask you. Your
band formed rather serendipitously at an open mic night at
a bar in Seattle. Can you tell us how music
brought all of you together? Initially?
Speaker 6 (01:24):
Yeah, yeah, it was kind of a hodgepodge of us
of individuals being attracted to this Irish pub called Connorburne
and Ballard and John had moved from a lot of
us were actually, you know, coming from different states, and
it was in our early twenties.
Speaker 5 (01:44):
John moved from Virginia.
Speaker 6 (01:47):
Kenny had come up from La Josiah also came up
from kind of the LA area to go to school
in Seattle. And I had just been studying overseas and
coming home.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
I was born and raised Seattle.
Speaker 6 (02:01):
But had literally, you know, met the band two weeks
after getting home.
Speaker 5 (02:06):
Chris was the only.
Speaker 6 (02:07):
One there who who who later joined, and he was
the bartender of this open mic, and you know, we
all kind of met very serendipitously. You know, Kenny went
to even not even play music at the open mic,
but he came to watch a Lakers game and saw
a couple of us, you know, performing, and.
Speaker 5 (02:30):
You know said, oh, well, I play piano.
Speaker 6 (02:32):
Never never had been in the band, didn't read music,
but you know, Kenny has this has this you know,
musical genius that he possesses, and and so he joined
and I came through a friend, and you know, and
so with the exception of Tyler, no one. Tyler later
(02:52):
drove out from Richmond, Virginia.
Speaker 5 (02:54):
He knew John, but with the exception.
Speaker 6 (02:57):
Of them, you know, we we we hadn't known each other.
And then we later met Maddie at the music festival,
the kind of first music festival that the band played,
and his band was playing, and you know, because of circumstances,
we lost one of our members and he wanted Maddie
to take take his place. And so it's just been
this this kind of family collective. How we've operated as
(03:20):
a band with multiple songwriters and multiple personalities, and we've gotten.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
To know one another real time.
Speaker 5 (03:29):
You know, we we didn't.
Speaker 6 (03:30):
We really we really bonded from this kind of we formed.
You know, there was there's with you know, in a
very unspoken way. We formed because we connected immediately and
had this kind of wild wonder about you know, at
that point in life and music, and and didn't know
(03:51):
what we were doing, didn't know who we were and
we just were meant to be together, and if we've
tried to maintain that that kind of uncertain wonder, I
think through the whole thing, the whole time.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
That's very special.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
It's a big band, so I mean there's a lot
of arts.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yes, yes, so that's a lot.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Your music often explores themes home, belonging, personal growth. How
is your relationship with these concepts sort of evolved through
the years that you've been together.
Speaker 6 (04:28):
Yeah, well, I think I think the early days, you
know so much, especially the first first album was yeah,
you know, leaving home looking for belonging, looking, you know,
kind of questioning what is home?
Speaker 5 (04:43):
Who am I, where do I belong? And kind of
you know a lot of a lot of.
Speaker 6 (04:49):
The themes that that occur, you know, in all of
us kind of in the in that time frame of life,
I would say, But then it reoccurs, you know, and
you get into your thirties and have another existential and
forties have another existential crisis, you know, and and and
you kind of are reminded of the same questions. But
(05:11):
I think there's so much comfort in kind of moving
through uncertainty and music, you know, there's so much comfort
that you find from making it and also engaging with
it as a listener, and you.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Know that's for sure, you know this matter. Did you
have anything to add to that?
Speaker 5 (05:32):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Yeah, I was just going to say, like, you know,
you're kind of processing these things, and you're talking about
personal growth when you're when you when you all started music,
you know, you're all you know in our teens basically,
and it starts off being this like almost like one
plus one equals to sort of dynamic where you have
a feeling and you're translating it through song and it's
very direct. And as you you kind of learned that
(05:57):
you work that muscle and you and you and you
realize the catharsist that comes with that. Slowly but surely
as adults, it becomes more and more of like, oh,
I see what I'm doing now. At first I didn't
realize what this was, and now I see what its
power is and I can almost harness it more intentionally,
if that makes sense. Yes, And so that's kind of
(06:19):
been really an amazing thing. It's kind of like as
we've all matured and as a songwriters, like we've we've
found ways of looking into what that experience is and
what that transaction is that you're having when you're writing
and understanding it. And it's been really interesting to like
go back and listen to records from you know, heroes
(06:40):
of ours that are like, we're at the same point
in their careers that we are now, you know, where
before it used to be like we're looking up to them,
and now we're like, Okay, this person is the same
age when they made this record that I love that
I am now and what does it mean to them
at the time, and what does it mean to me
to be making music at that same age? And you know,
that's just been kind of a really you know, comforting
(07:03):
thing almost, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
To have that.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
So yeah, I mean, certainly when you have a certain
amount of time behind you and you can look back
and see patterns and things that you've learned and you
didn't even realize you were going through at that time
until you get here exactly, it's pretty amazing. Speaking of which,
and you mentioned you have a large band and a
lot of moving parts. You have spoken about seeing a
(07:25):
therapist the band as a whole, and all I could
think of in my mind is when you're together, you're
probably more together with the band than you are with
your own families. I mean, you work really hard and
it's almost like a marriage and that can't always be easy.
And I think prioritizing mental health is pretty incredible. I've
(07:47):
only heard of one other band that did this, and
it was Metallica.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
No, but I mean that same documentary, right, and I.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Mean it was pretty it was brutal, but it was
it was like amazing that they did that. And that
was a group of guys, which is hard enough to
get people to seek some counseling. As you know, how
is prioritizing that mental health affected the creative process? Now
now that you've sort of gone through.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
That, well, it's interesting, Like, you know, every time that
we've mentioned that or brought it up with other bands
that are peers of ours, when we encounter them on tour, they're.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Always like, wow, that's cool, you guys do that, and they.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Kind of and you can see their gears spinning, like
why haven't we done this? Like we should be doing
this too, because there's so much that can be gleaned
from it, and you realize that your fortunes are tied together.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Whether you like it or not.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
You know, you know, it's like this, you're greater than
the summer of your parts, and no one member necessarily
like has the ability to go off and strike it
on their own.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
And you know, Metallica actually.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Hits so ironically one of the few where that actually
did happen with Dave Mustaine going off and create Megadeth,
but it's very rare for that to happen. And so
like realizing that we have like a uh, you know,
our fortunes are tied together and it's important that we
stay together. It has been something that's definitely informed where
we're going to answer your question though, So you're talking
(09:18):
about how does it like impact our song a creative process, right, Yeah,
I mean it's kind of very Fleetwood MACI to be,
it's a Fleetwood Machian process whatever. Literally a lot of
a lot of songs you can kind of are grappling
(09:40):
with interraband dynamics, uh to be, to be honest, you know,
and you're finding nuggets of truth in things that you're learning,
and you're learning from each other, and there's just as
much value in that as there is in a personal
relationship or some other experience that you went through that
inspired you. And because you mentioned we spent so much
time together that is literally like it does end up
(10:03):
becoming a part of like what occupies our minds and
what we're processing and going through, Yeah to things.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
Two things that come to mind for me.
Speaker 6 (10:15):
For me, songs that are incredibly impactful for me as
a listener are songs that feel like the writer was
very connected to themselves from within, very honest. And I
think when you aren't just a solo artist, but you're
in a collective, you have to get to a place
(10:35):
where you're safe enough to be vulnerable. And for me,
you know, songs and music, I can be more honest
in songs than you know, talking about something you know,
talking about that theme and and when you have you know,
multiple relationships, and then there's dynamics in groups, right, you
(11:00):
have to you have to work with intention to get
to a place where you feel safe with one another
in order to kind of release in such an honest
way and create in such an honest way, which then
if everyone's guards come down, you know, and the like
the recording writing process is a collective, then you know,
that's another layer of connection in the process that is
(11:24):
so powerful, and that nuance in magic can be captured
in live takes, you know, in the music itself. And
so it's just building upon this connection that starts within
the individual and then it starts moving outward, you know.
And and so I think therapy is necessary for that
(11:45):
just it really gives a lot of tools in terms
of communication. I think that's the biggest takeaway, is just
learning how to be more understanding, more curious with one
another in communication. And the second thing is that it
baffles me that it isn't more of a a norm.
It's it's I think in my mind, the support the
(12:06):
infrastructures that support bands, like labels, there should be an
arm of like a mental health arm, a holistic kind
of domain that is supporting the bands, because.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
It's it's a pretty it's.
Speaker 6 (12:22):
You know, it's like it's like a faceless marketplace that's
not considering the human and it's not sustaining. And there's
a reason why addiction is prevalent amongst musicians and why
you know they're there.
Speaker 5 (12:36):
It's it's it's bogged. It's mind boggling to me.
Speaker 6 (12:39):
And and we're moving, we're moving more towards where, you know,
towards support.
Speaker 5 (12:43):
But I wish that there were even within there's more.
Speaker 6 (12:46):
Of a recognition and infrastructure for that, uh than just
kind of tertiary, you know, organizations, And but yeah, I'm
grateful that. I'm grateful that, you know, we found this
incredible and credible therapist who I knew intuitively would would
would you know? She really emphasizes group dynamics and it
(13:09):
really she's she's resonated with everyone, and she's been amazing
for us.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
I have to thank you for sharing that. You know,
a lot of people assume that, you know, you have
it all. You've got this great band and you're touring
the world, and you know they do. People don't realize
how difficult it can be for artists to be together
like that. And and music is a therapy in and
(13:37):
of itself, but you still need levels of things to
get yourself through life. And and for you to share
that is is pretty astounding. Actually, you know, you're letting
you're feeling vulnerable enough to say that publicly, And I
bet it helps a lot of people to know that
even the most talented and you know, famous people actually
(14:03):
do need some help too, and it's okay to to
get that and it and it works.
Speaker 6 (14:07):
Oh oh yeah, I mean I think you thank you
for for even you know, thank you for saying that.
Speaker 5 (14:13):
You know, I think I can't help, but just always,
you know, be honest.
Speaker 6 (14:19):
I know, cursed with it too, but I think that
you know, there's always and there's always a thread of
deep gratitude and understanding of the privilege and the gift
that that we have through everything, you know, and that's
what one of the you know, drivers, and that keeps
us going, you know, and and and that you know,
(14:40):
grand acknowledgment, but you know, every relationship, we're human, and
and if you're a human in a relationship, there's always
going to be it's always a dance of understanding. And
then you multiply that times so many and and.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
And also you know, when we started as a band,
we were young.
Speaker 6 (15:03):
We were trying to stay informed and be sage and
all these things, but we were still we this is
new for all of us, and we didn't know one another,
so we didn't have that foundation, and so all of
this is happening, and it was just there's such an
intensity and an extreme.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
When you're on in the industry. You know, we've extreme extreme.
Speaker 6 (15:26):
Our year, you know, is booked with extremes where you're honor,
you're really honor, you're really off, you're gone and away
or you're home, and you know, and so I think
it's just it's trying to navigate those extremes to kind
of bring them more towards the center in a healthy
balance way.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
When did you first both discover that music had healing
benefits to your fans and to listeners of music.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Well, yeah, I think we all started making music because
we recognized that power from you know, very very very
very young, and we you know, whether the music where
we experienced it, you know, going to For me, it
was Catholic church every Sunday, and you know, and sharing
the songs with family members. My grandfather was a singer,
(16:18):
and you know, just the shared experience that you have
with that. My parents were big, huge music fans, and
so we grew up listening to all the classics, you know.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
Like they have great takes Bob Dylan music, Bob.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Dylan records and Neil Young records, and Bruce Springsteen and
you know, you know, Buddy Holly and music from the
fifties and the forties and and a lot of great
jazz records too, and.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Just uh, pretty you know, as an early teen slash tween.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
I guess, you know, before I was even a teenager,
I had an older brother who started learning guitar and
kind of we formed a band with our close neighbor
down the street, and it became this very immediate like
form of processing and an outlet for stuff that you know,
feelings and experiences that you couldn't you know, quite necessarily
(17:12):
you know, comprehend, you know, And so music was always that,
you know, it's always a way of transporting to the.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
To someplace else in a healthy way.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
That that gave us that drive to do it ourselves essentially,
and then you know, come full circle and seeing what
you what you mentioned like with how the music that
then you then write affects others. It's just the most
profoundly amazing experience and affirming experience to ever have happened.
You know, you can there's nothing that can even remotely
(17:45):
come close to it, because you realize the full circle
benefit of putting yourself out there and you and you've
you've gotten so much from all the people that came
before you, and you're channeling and turning your life experiences
into these new creations that are doing that for someone else.
It's a profoundly gratifying thing, and it's easy to forget
(18:09):
that that's what you're doing, you know, But like it's
just when you see it on the faces of people
that come out to the shows, it's just it's everything.
Speaker 6 (18:17):
Yeah, because I think in many ways in the creation
process I am, I think I was born this way
but also conditioned. I don't know, you know, but I'm
a deep EmPATH highly sensitive being and I love it.
And I'm the youngest, you know, and in our family line,
and you know, I can't help but just think of
(18:39):
others a lot. But in the music creation process, I'm
not thinking about anyone else. I'm again trying to be honest,
the most honest that I can be with myself, so
I can connect to the deep parts of who I
am and also be open to receiving whatever is coming
(19:02):
from beyond me, you know. And it's yeah, it's cathartic
and healing for myself. And so it's it's extremely not unexpected,
but surprising every time, and so beautiful to know that
someone is reacting in the same way and like to
to the music to how I did when I was
making it. And so I think there's that you know,
(19:25):
you can't you can't truth is truth can't help but
be attractive, you know, and connect. So it's that's the power,
you know, and it's beyond I say, like the the
most powerful you know, songs and music canon come from
this place that is beyond yourself, beyond the writer and
(19:45):
in the room and and you're almost receiving you know,
you're a conduit and vessel for this, and so it's
it's it's outside of it's outside of ourselves, you know
what we're connecting.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
With absolutely and empaths and have a hard time with
large crowds. It makes sense though, because you're you're sucking
in all of the energy, good and the bad and
all of it. But but the weird thing is is that
at a concert where you have fans of your music
and you're fans of making the music and performing it,
and you're feeding off of each other all the good,
(20:19):
then that's a safe large crowd environment for someone who
picks up on all that stuff, which it just kind
of dawned on me.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
I've always had issues with large crowds, and.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
I've never been a musician on stage making them just
feel amazing. So I it just sort of dawned on
me that that's how you could probably handle it, and
that yeah one.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
And as a fan, you know, I think about experiences
and like when when I'll you know, be in the audience.
We've we've been lucky enough to see you know, Paul
McCartney a couple of times, and you know, just like
you look at the faces and the tears streaming down
these strangers that you don't know, that are sitting in
the same row as you, and you sharing this experience,
and this music is meant the same thing to them
(21:03):
as it's meant to you for so long, for decades
and decades, your whole life. And so as a fan,
you know that that's what's happening in the audience, or
at least you as a performer, that's what you hope
is happening in the audience. And you know that it
is when you see and you look out and you
see those tears and you see those smiles, and you
(21:24):
see that release that everyone's experience experiencing, and it just
gives you the ability to.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Reinvigorate what those songs meant to you in the first
place when.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
You were writing them, and it just yeah, I mean,
it is a spiritual experience.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
There's no other way of putting it.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Like that's the whole Like that's the joy of live
music and of concerts, and especially with artists that you love.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
It's all about.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
It's all about that shared sense of community and shared
history and Catharsis and all the good things.
Speaker 6 (21:58):
And it's crazy that you know that can that it's
it's that like power to unify, especially in like the
live the live music is setting, you know. Is I
always go back to the fact that I learned a
few years ago that the average American attends one one
concert per year, and so it's a rare occurrence to
(22:21):
be in attendance at this concert, you know, And I
think that there's so much power in that. And so
everyone in attendance, you don't you don't know their relationship
with the music, but nine times out of ten they've
been moved deep enough by the music to want to
come see an experience it live. And so it's this
(22:41):
rare occurrence for the person, but everyone is is drawn
there for the same reason, and you and and it's
like you're uniting. Thousands of people are united and connecting
in various moments and ways and songs, and that is
(23:01):
such a powerful, beautiful thing to have in society and
moving moving our collective, you know, towards unification, towards connection
and away from division like that, that is the tool
that music can have. Live live music and also just
listening to it, you know, on headphones or in your car.
(23:22):
Having that as a tool that can't heal and and
bring us, you know, move us away from fear and
more towards love on that spectrum is beyond extraordinary. And
you know, I think we're learning there's evidence, there's greater
and greater evidence on the neurological side.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
Of of how how how.
Speaker 6 (23:43):
It can't heal the individual and thus the collective and
in our society.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
Yes, listening to music, going to shows together and listening
to music, all of it. We'll be right back with
more of the Music Saved Me podcast. And by the way,
if you like this podcast, you are going to love
our companion podcast called Taken a Walk. It's hosted by
my dear friend buzz Night, and you can find it
wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the Music
(24:13):
Saved Me Podcast, the podcast where we discussed the healing
powers of music with some of the biggest names in
music as well as up and comers. Mattie, we'll start
with you. Who are some of your favorite artists? Are
songs that have truly impacted you saying maybe a particularly
difficult time in your life.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's a good one.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
I mean, there's because there's countless.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
There's so many, you know, I can think back to
my teenage years and you know, listening to you know,
bands like Nirvana and Pearl Jam and and like you know,
you know, Green Day and bands that you know, I
looked up to when I was younger, and you know,
going through the trials and tribulations of early adulthood and
(25:05):
the Bachelor Number two record by any Man and Rufus's
Want Records are just so influential and so got me
through my early twenties, and Neil Young's Silver and Gold,
you know, around a similar.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Period of time, Harvest Moon, just.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Countless, countless acts like that, you know, you know, one
of the one of the ones that always sticks out
of my head. And it wasn't necessarily like a personal
and difficult time, but like as a nation Post nine
to eleven, Bruce Springsteen puts out the rising, and it's
just this like absolute He sums up so many of
(25:45):
the feelings we were all having, like in this way,
they're like, I don't know how you performed that magic trick,
but thank you for that, you know what I mean.
And every so often you just you just have to
come to come to this like realization, like, oh my god,
thank god I live at the time that I live
where these people gave these gifts to all of us,
(26:06):
because it's I can't imagine my life without it. And
I can put those records on that I put on
it when I was in my early twenties or in
my teens, and I have the exact same feeling that
I had, and I can remember the reason why I
was going through something in that moment.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
You know, I can re.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Experience painful as it was, like when I lost one
of my best friends to a drug overdose, or when
I lost my grandparents, or all these different feelings that
you go through in life, and they.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Come right back to you, you know.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
But then of course they're viewed through the lens of
history and all the things that you learned in process
before that, and after that it just becomes it's just
a very peaceful feeling because you get you realize, Okay,
I can put this record on whenever I want to,
and it's like, I can't believe all the anxiety that
I was having because of what was happening today just
(27:01):
drifts away. It's gone and I have that that release again.
It's it's an incredible gift.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
So, yeah, was.
Speaker 7 (27:11):
There I have a question actually where there like talking
about your grandfather, was there like a specific song that
kind of in the moment I guess of his his
life's decline and mental decline that yeah, point two.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Or yeah, you could probably google the words. I can't
remember the name of the actual artists because it was
we didn't really have it was pre pre google back yeah,
old days. But it was like, here's my song, it's
(27:51):
the song that's in my heart, and this is you know,
my grandfather who had Alzheimer's, was you know, not capable
of conversation and in a way other than kind of
reliving stories and reliving things that he had gone through
and the you know, distant, distant past. But you know,
these songs and these these these these melodies would come
(28:11):
back up and he would sing them over and over again.
He just kind of like, you know, have an appreciation
for the staying power. It lives in a different part
of you than than the part of the brain that
we typically access when we're you know, responding to an
email or driving down the highway or whatever.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
It might the case might be. It's it lives somewhere else.
It lives you know, in the soul.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
And so it's just it's it's amazing to see that
happen in real time with someone who has you know,
a mental decline or situation or you know, somethings like
like Alzheimer's, which my grandmother.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
Does that answer your question, yeah, take time to your charity.
Speaker 5 (28:55):
Yeah, well, I.
Speaker 6 (28:55):
Mean I think I think the more that I learned,
we learn, you know, but just about how there's you know,
a part of the brain that can only be communicated
with through music is and the fact that our brains
have evolved, you know, to maintain this access is said
something you know, and that makes me think of the
(29:16):
Disney film Cocoa that happened to be the first kind
of Disney film we showed our eldest who's four almost four. Yeah,
I think it's just the power to be able to
communicate and heal. You know, the music, the music, the
power that music has to do that that is beyond
a talk talking a talk therapy or somatic therapy, or
(29:38):
it makes me I.
Speaker 5 (29:39):
Can't help but cry.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
It just to make you feel better. I think almost
every one of these podcasts that I've done has brought
me to tears.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
In a good way. But it's there. I mean, you
don't see it, but I turn around, I'm.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Like, yeah, it's just so special all of that for me.
Can I share with you this song hurts, but it
goes away. Oh okay, So tell me first. You have
to tell me about the song. Because for me, having
someone my husband or my best friend, or someone anyone
(30:19):
close to me when I'm going through something they say
to me it's going to be okay, that changes everything,
especially if it's someone that you trust and love and
they tell you that, and you need to hear that sometimes.
And I was just curious if you could tell me
a little bit about that song.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Yeah, I guess the line that sticks out to me
is like I've been noticing the leaves or changing colors.
It just kind of like it's talking about the passage
of time. And despite the fact that we might be
in the thick of it right now. There's beauty in
the passage of time and the healing lies there. I'm
(30:59):
not the only one who feels the way to this,
you know, it knows it shows that you're You're not
the only person going through this. It's a shared experience,
regardless of whether or not you feel like you're at
the center of it. We've all we're all in this together,
even when it comes down to like your own personal struggles,
because we've you know, everyone shares those struggles at one
(31:21):
point or another in their life, and they are always
an invitation to take the next step and move beyond
the plane of existence that you've been on and step
towards something greater than you could you you would have
conceptualized had you not gone through that experience in the
(31:43):
first place. And so yeah, I like to say it
goes away. I mean, it's it's it's almost like it
would be better almost to say it hurts and it
stays with you, but it.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Get easier to deal with.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
It's to quote the great Britney spears stronger than yesterday.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
No, it's it's it's it's one of those things where.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
You become stronger for it, if that makes sense.
Speaker 6 (32:13):
Right, And I think as a person, as a person
who carries and lives with heightened anxiety, I'd say, you know,
and I think that there's a lot of there's a
lot of collective pain in the endemic of of anxiety,
but you know, emotional and mental pain, you know, and
suffering that we all kind of dance through on a
(32:34):
daily basis to varying degrees living with anxiety.
Speaker 5 (32:38):
It's it's really the understanding.
Speaker 6 (32:39):
That kind of trying to find the hope, hope is
the only way to kind of bring you out of
that and bring you through it and not thinking worst
case scenario, you know, bringing you out of that cycle
and that things your thoughts aren't it's not the end
of the world, you know, And that's you find that
(33:00):
and then you build that strength and that resilience to
be able to move forward.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
You know.
Speaker 6 (33:05):
Again, music is one of the main tools that can
bring me bring me through that.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Yeah, it's kind of funny.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
You could go, you could read a thousand self help
books and before you realize, like, oh, all I really
needed to do was put on my favorite record and
that that had the same effect of just release and
self actualization that you were looking for in the first place.
You know, there's a lot of like I think we
can all we've we've all been through the part where
you're kind of just I mean, I can't say this
(33:34):
is true for everyone. I'm sure it is, but like
you're just overthinking everything all the time and you're like,
oh my god, I just I've just remembered that that
harvest moon exists. I'm going to put harv of the
Moon on. I did that last week. I was like, okay,
this is everything is good now.
Speaker 5 (33:49):
The noise, you know, you're able to quiet the noise.
You're able to quiet.
Speaker 6 (33:52):
The noise, and it's like a form of meditation really,
you know, and I guess the reference kind of songs together,
songs that were poignant for me along my life.
Speaker 5 (34:04):
You know, thus far you knows.
Speaker 6 (34:07):
As a child, I grew up in a musical household
with my mother being a finalist bolis orchestra teacher, so
I couldn't help but be surrounded and played violin since
I was very young, and so classical music I was
just we listened to that so much.
Speaker 5 (34:25):
And also I have.
Speaker 6 (34:26):
Two older sisters and then my mother that that I
grew up with, and we would sing hymns a lot
as well. There are moments when I remember singing singing
hymns in my Grandma's Cadillac in small town, Minnesota where
we moved to for a handful of years. As a
kid and being the youngest, I would always add the
(34:46):
last harmony, you know, I would.
Speaker 5 (34:48):
Fit in where I could, which is a lot.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
You know.
Speaker 5 (34:51):
It applies to being in this band too.
Speaker 6 (34:53):
With my harmonies, I'm always kind of the last, the
last voice to find their way. One class little song
that I always come back to, and now I'm playing
for my one daughter who calls it the most so
so beautiful and makes her fall asleep at the same
time is dabc's Clear d Loon, which is just one
of the most that it makes me feel all of
(35:16):
the emotions whenever I put that song on, as well
as Carnival of the Animals, the Swan Song, my Sas Song,
Both of those tracks I think I could go to,
you know, for the rest of my life and have
carred with me, you know, since being a kid. But
then moving forward, Green Day's Good Ridance The Time.
Speaker 5 (35:38):
Of your Life came.
Speaker 6 (35:39):
Out right when I was twelve, Like I said, we
had moved.
Speaker 5 (35:46):
I'm born and raised Seattle.
Speaker 6 (35:48):
All my extended family were in Minnesota, including my you know,
Grandma Corrn in small town and it was kind of
near the end of her life, so my parents moved
us all out to to to become have a relationship
with her and the rest. And for me, I had
quite an existential crisis and realize that that has been,
(36:10):
you know, since then given me this kind of fierce
independence and understanding, you know, like being comfortable with isolation,
and you know, later in my life really lends itself
to to writing songs and for the first time and
et cetera. But I remember the day that we that
we moved away and we were we had like an
(36:32):
overnight actually with with our church community, and they put
Green Day's Good Riddance as the soundtrack to the photos
the photo like the slideshow.
Speaker 5 (36:43):
I was profoundly moved by that song.
Speaker 6 (36:45):
For my sisters, there is sadness for the leaving of
the relationships, the community and now we're you know, we're
moving back to Seattle.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
For me, there was it was almost tears of joy.
Speaker 6 (36:56):
And I'll never forget just the visual, the visual of
me like looking out of the rear of the car
and and it's all waving, you know, goodbye. But for
me it were it was, you know, these tiers of
of joy knowing you know, I'm good rints like I'm
(37:17):
happy to be leaving you, I'm happy to be moving
on and moving back to where I feel like my
home really is, you know, back in Seattle. And uh yeah,
I'll never you know, forget the poignants of that song
and and and come to think of it, you know,
there's such a like violin instrumental in the middle of
that song, you know, for quite a long time, and
(37:40):
uh that obviously resonates with with me. But speaking of hymns,
you know, growing up with that when I when we
moved home to Seattle, and probably a couple of years later,
right before I started getting a guitar and writing writing music.
Speaker 5 (37:56):
Sister act too. My sister and I would.
Speaker 6 (37:59):
Sing to, you know, the classic hymn His Eyes on
the Sparrow, and that was really my introduction into Lauren Hill.
Speaker 5 (38:05):
We would always, you know, do at that song.
Speaker 6 (38:08):
And there's such profound power in that in that rendition
and that song, and that really opened up my world
to you know Lauren Hill and the education her solo stuff,
and you know, she was a huge, huge influence on me,
you know, musically and just seeing the power of music.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
It's pretty powerful.
Speaker 4 (38:29):
There's something about harmonies too that I don't know what
it is. Yes, Yes, Oh my gosh, I wish I
knew what it was.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Still trying to figure it out, but we're yes.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Now.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
I have a couple of more things that I want
to ask you about before I let you go, because
you've been so generous with your time. First of all,
I wanted to comment on something you said earlier. It's
almost as if the way you were describing music was
your record shelf, for lack of a better word, or
the thing you go through to find your albums or
(39:04):
however you get your music, which is kind of dating
myself now. It's kind of like your your medicine cabinet.
Totally go in there and you have a problem and
you're looking for which one it's going to help you
get through that moment.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
That was just a comment your new album.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
Correct me if I'm wrong, But this is more about
what you had just spoken about Hope and Light. Can
you can you tell us a little bit more what
we're going to find on that new album.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
We've been going through this period of not knowing who
you are, not not not necessarily being satisfied.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
With where we are, uh, you know.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Not not necessarily appreciating the things that are beautiful that
are already there. And the idea is that, you know,
we're stepping forward into something new that feels that that's
always been there, but we're only now opening up the aperture,
opening up our ability to see it and to take
(40:09):
it in for the you know again, as if it
was you know, for the first time. And so it's
kind of like those moments in life where you've you
whether you've met to or not, you you've kind of
been having sort of some sort of long dark night
of the soul. Which I've always loved that phrase, and
(40:31):
I feel like it's very apt for songwriters and myself,
Like you go through these periods of despair and depression
and and they seem like they're going to last forever,
and all of a sudden, whatever the lessons that were
in that period of time, they can jeal in your brain.
You somehow you've translated them into the thing that that
(40:56):
or into the lesson that you needed to learn at
that point in your life, and all of a sudden,
it's like, Okay.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
I have this new I get to you know, I get.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
To take a walk down the street, and all of
a sudden, it just feels different again. I can I'm
taking notice of the color of the moss on the branches.
You know, I'm starting to see the things that were
always there but for a while you were shut off to.
And so there's there's sort of there's hope in that.
And you know, another line in the song is time
(41:29):
was made for running out. I don't know why it
took us so long. You know, the sun was made
for coming out, even though the night is long. So
it's kind of just giving you again the reassurance that
you know, you've been through this before, it's going to
happen again. But the sun always rises at the end
of the day or at the beginning of the.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Day after ang what depends on where you are.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
The wrong finality to use of that moment.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Sounds like to looking.
Speaker 4 (41:59):
What you're saying is is, you know, finding those silver
linings when things seem really the darkest, and then when
you realize what they are, it's time to celebrate that
and and be okay, which is amazing.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
It's yeah, and you were.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
It's almost as if you too were or your band
collective is it was picked to do this because you
you sound like musical therapists, but you're giving of yourself
and your skills and talents to those that need it desperately.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
And it's it's interesting.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
It's interesting to hear from your side how much you
go through this too, And I think.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
That's so important.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 4 (42:41):
I am really excited to hear about the Rivers and
is it the Rivers and Road Foundation, the Rivers, Rivers
and Roads.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Yes, Roads, tell us about that.
Speaker 5 (42:53):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think that.
Speaker 6 (42:56):
You know, so the Rivers and Roads Foundation really the
the heart mission of it is to kind of allow
greater access or to music education for for for children,
you know, in the in the Seattle area and greater community,
as well as mental health support and access to services
(43:21):
for for musicians. So a lot of you know, kind
of it was a very natural extension for the band
and how really understanding how we can support the community
that supported our band in the early days and and
the foundation leading to where we are and and again
(43:44):
going back to understanding the power of music and and
as a as a as a necessary tool to have
in in you know, for in society, young society especially,
and in all so the having a compassionate understanding of
the need for mental health support for artists and for
(44:06):
crewe you know, who support the artists on the road
and in venues and such.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
And we're lucky that we have a bunch of really
amazing pre existing nonprofits in Seattle that we kind.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Of allocate with.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
Oh yeah, yeah, So we've been able to like over
the you know, each year designated different recipient of the
funds that we've been able to raise and so and
so there's an infrastructure, you know, because our own infrastructure
is more just a fundraiser essentially, and then we were
able to give that to different organizations that can then
translate that into direct you know, a person to person
(44:45):
benefit to you know, in different communities within within Seattle.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
So that's great. You guys, just keep doing what you're doing.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
I'm so impressed and you're just so lovely and it.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Was so wonderful to meet you and Maddie and Charity.
Speaker 4 (44:59):
Please come back and see us again and share more
great stories from your career.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
I suspect you have.
Speaker 4 (45:07):
Many many, many more years of performing and giving back,
and I'm just blessed to know you, and.
Speaker 5 (45:17):
I'm grateful.
Speaker 6 (45:18):
Thank you for for having this type of podcast that
really is not you know, as you were saying earlier,
not the gossip uh fluff train of sorts. That's you know,
really getting to the heart of what makes us human,
you know, and what connects us.
Speaker 5 (45:35):
And so so thank you.
Speaker 6 (45:37):
For giving us a platform and for your time to
share it with us.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
It's really true. It's it's like what music.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
Does you know we could have We could talk to
you all day about this, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
And so that's really good.
Speaker 5 (45:48):
Wells are in school.
Speaker 4 (45:49):
We've got a few more, all right, Well listen Part
two down the road, go out, you know, kick some asks,
take some names, and just keep doing what you're doing,
keep rock in the free world. And I'm sure that
we will cross paths again and we'll have park part.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
You absolutely, yes, please, we'd love.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
To all right, Thank you so much, Thank you.
Speaker 5 (46:15):
M
Music Saved Me.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
It's a Fleetwood Macian process. When we're.
Speaker 3 (00:05):
At a lot of songs you can kind of are
grappling with infraband dynamics to be fit, to be honest,
you know, and you're finding nuggets of truth in things
that you're learning, and you're learning from each other, and
there's just as much value in that as there is
in a personal relationship or some other experience that you
went through that inspired you. And because you mentioned we
(00:29):
spent so much time together, that is literally like it
does end up becoming a part of like what occupies our.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Minds and what we're processing and going through.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
I'm Lyn Hoffman and welcome to the Music Save Me podcast,
the podcast that explores the deep healing forces of music. Now,
if you like this podcast, thank you, and please share
with your friends and don't forget to follow so you
never miss an episode. I'm so grateful today I get
to speak with Matt Jervase and Charity Rose Deelin from
the American indie folk band Head and the Heart. Maddie
(01:02):
and Charity, welcome to Music Save Me. This is a
big thrill for us.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Thank you, thank you for having us.
Speaker 5 (01:07):
Yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
All right, So first I want to ask you. Your
band formed rather serendipitously at an open mic night at
a bar in Seattle. Can you tell us how music
brought all of you together? Initially?
Speaker 6 (01:24):
Yeah, yeah, it was kind of a hodgepodge of us
of individuals being attracted to this Irish pub called Connorburne
and Ballard and John had moved from a lot of
us were actually, you know, coming from different states, and
it was in our early twenties.
Speaker 5 (01:44):
John moved from Virginia.
Speaker 6 (01:47):
Kenny had come up from La Josiah also came up
from kind of the LA area to go to school
in Seattle. And I had just been studying overseas and
coming home.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
I was born and raised Seattle.
Speaker 6 (02:01):
But had literally, you know, met the band two weeks
after getting home.
Speaker 5 (02:06):
Chris was the only.
Speaker 6 (02:07):
One there who who who later joined, and he was
the bartender of this open mic, and you know, we
all kind of met very serendipitously. You know, Kenny went
to even not even play music at the open mic,
but he came to watch a Lakers game and saw
a couple of us, you know, performing, and.
Speaker 5 (02:30):
You know said, oh, well, I play piano.
Speaker 6 (02:32):
Never never had been in the band, didn't read music,
but you know, Kenny has this has this you know,
musical genius that he possesses, and and so he joined
and I came through a friend, and you know, and
so with the exception of Tyler, no one. Tyler later
(02:52):
drove out from Richmond, Virginia.
Speaker 5 (02:54):
He knew John, but with the exception.
Speaker 6 (02:57):
Of them, you know, we we we hadn't known each other.
And then we later met Maddie at the music festival,
the kind of first music festival that the band played,
and his band was playing, and you know, because of circumstances,
we lost one of our members and he wanted Maddie
to take take his place. And so it's just been
this this kind of family collective. How we've operated as
(03:20):
a band with multiple songwriters and multiple personalities, and we've gotten.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
To know one another real time.
Speaker 5 (03:29):
You know, we we didn't.
Speaker 6 (03:30):
We really we really bonded from this kind of we formed.
You know, there was there's with you know, in a
very unspoken way. We formed because we connected immediately and
had this kind of wild wonder about you know, at
that point in life and music, and and didn't know
(03:51):
what we were doing, didn't know who we were and
we just were meant to be together, and if we've
tried to maintain that that kind of uncertain wonder, I
think through the whole thing, the whole time.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
That's very special.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
It's a big band, so I mean there's a lot
of arts.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yes, yes, so that's a lot.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Your music often explores themes home, belonging, personal growth. How
is your relationship with these concepts sort of evolved through
the years that you've been together.
Speaker 6 (04:28):
Yeah, well, I think I think the early days, you
know so much, especially the first first album was yeah,
you know, leaving home looking for belonging, looking, you know,
kind of questioning what is home?
Speaker 5 (04:43):
Who am I, where do I belong? And kind of
you know a lot of a lot of.
Speaker 6 (04:49):
The themes that that occur, you know, in all of
us kind of in the in that time frame of life,
I would say, But then it reoccurs, you know, and
you get into your thirties and have another existential and
forties have another existential crisis, you know, and and and
you kind of are reminded of the same questions. But
(05:11):
I think there's so much comfort in kind of moving
through uncertainty and music, you know, there's so much comfort
that you find from making it and also engaging with
it as a listener, and you.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Know that's for sure, you know this matter. Did you
have anything to add to that?
Speaker 5 (05:32):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Yeah, I was just going to say, like, you know,
you're kind of processing these things, and you're talking about
personal growth when you're when you when you all started music,
you know, you're all you know in our teens basically,
and it starts off being this like almost like one
plus one equals to sort of dynamic where you have
a feeling and you're translating it through song and it's
very direct. And as you you kind of learned that
(05:57):
you work that muscle and you and you and you
realize the catharsist that comes with that. Slowly but surely
as adults, it becomes more and more of like, oh,
I see what I'm doing now. At first I didn't
realize what this was, and now I see what its
power is and I can almost harness it more intentionally,
if that makes sense. Yes, And so that's kind of
(06:19):
been really an amazing thing. It's kind of like as
we've all matured and as a songwriters, like we've we've
found ways of looking into what that experience is and
what that transaction is that you're having when you're writing
and understanding it. And it's been really interesting to like
go back and listen to records from you know, heroes
(06:40):
of ours that are like, we're at the same point
in their careers that we are now, you know, where
before it used to be like we're looking up to them,
and now we're like, Okay, this person is the same
age when they made this record that I love that
I am now and what does it mean to them
at the time, and what does it mean to me
to be making music at that same age? And you know,
that's just been kind of a really you know, comforting
(07:03):
thing almost, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
To have that.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
So yeah, I mean, certainly when you have a certain
amount of time behind you and you can look back
and see patterns and things that you've learned and you
didn't even realize you were going through at that time
until you get here exactly, it's pretty amazing. Speaking of which,
and you mentioned you have a large band and a
lot of moving parts. You have spoken about seeing a
(07:25):
therapist the band as a whole, and all I could
think of in my mind is when you're together, you're
probably more together with the band than you are with
your own families. I mean, you work really hard and
it's almost like a marriage and that can't always be easy.
And I think prioritizing mental health is pretty incredible. I've
(07:47):
only heard of one other band that did this, and
it was Metallica.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
No, but I mean that same documentary, right, and I.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Mean it was pretty it was brutal, but it was
it was like amazing that they did that. And that
was a group of guys, which is hard enough to
get people to seek some counseling. As you know, how
is prioritizing that mental health affected the creative process? Now
now that you've sort of gone through.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
That, well, it's interesting, Like, you know, every time that
we've mentioned that or brought it up with other bands
that are peers of ours, when we encounter them on tour, they're.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Always like, wow, that's cool, you guys do that, and they.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Kind of and you can see their gears spinning, like
why haven't we done this? Like we should be doing
this too, because there's so much that can be gleaned
from it, and you realize that your fortunes are tied together.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Whether you like it or not.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
You know, you know, it's like this, you're greater than
the summer of your parts, and no one member necessarily
like has the ability to go off and strike it
on their own.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
And you know, Metallica actually.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Hits so ironically one of the few where that actually
did happen with Dave Mustaine going off and create Megadeth,
but it's very rare for that to happen. And so
like realizing that we have like a uh, you know,
our fortunes are tied together and it's important that we
stay together. It has been something that's definitely informed where
we're going to answer your question though, So you're talking
(09:18):
about how does it like impact our song a creative process, right, Yeah,
I mean it's kind of very Fleetwood MACI to be,
it's a Fleetwood Machian process whatever. Literally a lot of
a lot of songs you can kind of are grappling
(09:40):
with interraband dynamics, uh to be, to be honest, you know,
and you're finding nuggets of truth in things that you're learning,
and you're learning from each other, and there's just as
much value in that as there is in a personal
relationship or some other experience that you went through that
inspired you. And because you mentioned we spent so much
time together that is literally like it does end up
(10:03):
becoming a part of like what occupies our minds and
what we're processing and going through, Yeah to things.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
Two things that come to mind for me.
Speaker 6 (10:15):
For me, songs that are incredibly impactful for me as
a listener are songs that feel like the writer was
very connected to themselves from within, very honest. And I
think when you aren't just a solo artist, but you're
in a collective, you have to get to a place
(10:35):
where you're safe enough to be vulnerable. And for me,
you know, songs and music, I can be more honest
in songs than you know, talking about something you know,
talking about that theme and and when you have you know,
multiple relationships, and then there's dynamics in groups, right, you
(11:00):
have to you have to work with intention to get
to a place where you feel safe with one another
in order to kind of release in such an honest
way and create in such an honest way, which then
if everyone's guards come down, you know, and the like
the recording writing process is a collective, then you know,
that's another layer of connection in the process that is
(11:24):
so powerful, and that nuance in magic can be captured
in live takes, you know, in the music itself. And
so it's just building upon this connection that starts within
the individual and then it starts moving outward, you know.
And and so I think therapy is necessary for that
(11:45):
just it really gives a lot of tools in terms
of communication. I think that's the biggest takeaway, is just
learning how to be more understanding, more curious with one
another in communication. And the second thing is that it
baffles me that it isn't more of a a norm.
It's it's I think in my mind, the support the
(12:06):
infrastructures that support bands, like labels, there should be an
arm of like a mental health arm, a holistic kind
of domain that is supporting the bands, because.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
It's it's a pretty it's.
Speaker 6 (12:22):
You know, it's like it's like a faceless marketplace that's
not considering the human and it's not sustaining. And there's
a reason why addiction is prevalent amongst musicians and why
you know they're there.
Speaker 5 (12:36):
It's it's it's bogged. It's mind boggling to me.
Speaker 6 (12:39):
And and we're moving, we're moving more towards where, you know,
towards support.
Speaker 5 (12:43):
But I wish that there were even within there's more.
Speaker 6 (12:46):
Of a recognition and infrastructure for that, uh than just
kind of tertiary, you know, organizations, And but yeah, I'm
grateful that. I'm grateful that, you know, we found this
incredible and credible therapist who I knew intuitively would would
would you know? She really emphasizes group dynamics and it
(13:09):
really she's she's resonated with everyone, and she's been amazing
for us.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
I have to thank you for sharing that. You know,
a lot of people assume that, you know, you have
it all. You've got this great band and you're touring
the world, and you know they do. People don't realize
how difficult it can be for artists to be together
like that. And and music is a therapy in and
(13:37):
of itself, but you still need levels of things to
get yourself through life. And and for you to share
that is is pretty astounding. Actually, you know, you're letting
you're feeling vulnerable enough to say that publicly, And I
bet it helps a lot of people to know that
even the most talented and you know, famous people actually
(14:03):
do need some help too, and it's okay to to
get that and it and it works.
Speaker 6 (14:07):
Oh oh yeah, I mean I think you thank you
for for even you know, thank you for saying that.
Speaker 5 (14:13):
You know, I think I can't help, but just always,
you know, be honest.
Speaker 6 (14:19):
I know, cursed with it too, but I think that
you know, there's always and there's always a thread of
deep gratitude and understanding of the privilege and the gift
that that we have through everything, you know, and that's
what one of the you know, drivers, and that keeps
us going, you know, and and and that you know,
(14:40):
grand acknowledgment, but you know, every relationship, we're human, and
and if you're a human in a relationship, there's always
going to be it's always a dance of understanding. And
then you multiply that times so many and and.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
And also you know, when we started as a band,
we were young.
Speaker 6 (15:03):
We were trying to stay informed and be sage and
all these things, but we were still we this is
new for all of us, and we didn't know one another,
so we didn't have that foundation, and so all of
this is happening, and it was just there's such an
intensity and an extreme.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
When you're on in the industry. You know, we've extreme extreme.
Speaker 6 (15:26):
Our year, you know, is booked with extremes where you're honor,
you're really honor, you're really off, you're gone and away
or you're home, and you know, and so I think
it's just it's trying to navigate those extremes to kind
of bring them more towards the center in a healthy
balance way.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
When did you first both discover that music had healing
benefits to your fans and to listeners of music.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Well, yeah, I think we all started making music because
we recognized that power from you know, very very very
very young, and we you know, whether the music where
we experienced it, you know, going to For me, it
was Catholic church every Sunday, and you know, and sharing
the songs with family members. My grandfather was a singer,
(16:18):
and you know, just the shared experience that you have
with that. My parents were big, huge music fans, and
so we grew up listening to all the classics, you know.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
Like they have great takes Bob Dylan music, Bob.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Dylan records and Neil Young records, and Bruce Springsteen and
you know, you know, Buddy Holly and music from the
fifties and the forties and and a lot of great
jazz records too, and.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Just uh, pretty you know, as an early teen slash tween.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
I guess, you know, before I was even a teenager,
I had an older brother who started learning guitar and
kind of we formed a band with our close neighbor
down the street, and it became this very immediate like
form of processing and an outlet for stuff that you know,
feelings and experiences that you couldn't you know, quite necessarily
(17:12):
you know, comprehend, you know, And so music was always that,
you know, it's always a way of transporting to the.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
To someplace else in a healthy way.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
That that gave us that drive to do it ourselves essentially,
and then you know, come full circle and seeing what
you what you mentioned like with how the music that
then you then write affects others. It's just the most
profoundly amazing experience and affirming experience to ever have happened.
You know, you can there's nothing that can even remotely
(17:45):
come close to it, because you realize the full circle
benefit of putting yourself out there and you and you've
you've gotten so much from all the people that came
before you, and you're channeling and turning your life experiences
into these new creations that are doing that for someone else.
It's a profoundly gratifying thing, and it's easy to forget
(18:09):
that that's what you're doing, you know, But like it's
just when you see it on the faces of people
that come out to the shows, it's just it's everything.
Speaker 6 (18:17):
Yeah, because I think in many ways in the creation
process I am, I think I was born this way
but also conditioned. I don't know, you know, but I'm
a deep EmPATH highly sensitive being and I love it.
And I'm the youngest, you know, and in our family line,
and you know, I can't help but just think of
(18:39):
others a lot. But in the music creation process, I'm
not thinking about anyone else. I'm again trying to be honest,
the most honest that I can be with myself, so
I can connect to the deep parts of who I
am and also be open to receiving whatever is coming
(19:02):
from beyond me, you know. And it's yeah, it's cathartic
and healing for myself. And so it's it's extremely not unexpected,
but surprising every time, and so beautiful to know that
someone is reacting in the same way and like to
to the music to how I did when I was
making it. And so I think there's that you know,
(19:25):
you can't you can't truth is truth can't help but
be attractive, you know, and connect. So it's that's the power,
you know, and it's beyond I say, like the the
most powerful you know, songs and music canon come from
this place that is beyond yourself, beyond the writer and
(19:45):
in the room and and you're almost receiving you know,
you're a conduit and vessel for this, and so it's
it's it's outside of it's outside of ourselves, you know
what we're connecting.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
With absolutely and empaths and have a hard time with
large crowds. It makes sense though, because you're you're sucking
in all of the energy, good and the bad and
all of it. But but the weird thing is is that
at a concert where you have fans of your music
and you're fans of making the music and performing it,
and you're feeding off of each other all the good,
(20:19):
then that's a safe large crowd environment for someone who
picks up on all that stuff, which it just kind
of dawned on me.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
I've always had issues with large crowds, and.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
I've never been a musician on stage making them just
feel amazing. So I it just sort of dawned on
me that that's how you could probably handle it, and
that yeah one.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
And as a fan, you know, I think about experiences
and like when when I'll you know, be in the audience.
We've we've been lucky enough to see you know, Paul
McCartney a couple of times, and you know, just like
you look at the faces and the tears streaming down
these strangers that you don't know, that are sitting in
the same row as you, and you sharing this experience,
and this music is meant the same thing to them
(21:03):
as it's meant to you for so long, for decades
and decades, your whole life. And so as a fan,
you know that that's what's happening in the audience, or
at least you as a performer, that's what you hope
is happening in the audience. And you know that it
is when you see and you look out and you
see those tears and you see those smiles, and you
(21:24):
see that release that everyone's experience experiencing, and it just
gives you the ability to.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Reinvigorate what those songs meant to you in the first
place when.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
You were writing them, and it just yeah, I mean,
it is a spiritual experience.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
There's no other way of putting it.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Like that's the whole Like that's the joy of live
music and of concerts, and especially with artists that you love.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
It's all about.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
It's all about that shared sense of community and shared
history and Catharsis and all the good things.
Speaker 6 (21:58):
And it's crazy that you know that can that it's
it's that like power to unify, especially in like the
live the live music is setting, you know. Is I
always go back to the fact that I learned a
few years ago that the average American attends one one
concert per year, and so it's a rare occurrence to
(22:21):
be in attendance at this concert, you know, And I
think that there's so much power in that. And so
everyone in attendance, you don't you don't know their relationship
with the music, but nine times out of ten they've
been moved deep enough by the music to want to
come see an experience it live. And so it's this
(22:41):
rare occurrence for the person, but everyone is is drawn
there for the same reason, and you and and it's
like you're uniting. Thousands of people are united and connecting
in various moments and ways and songs, and that is
(23:01):
such a powerful, beautiful thing to have in society and
moving moving our collective, you know, towards unification, towards connection
and away from division like that, that is the tool
that music can have. Live live music and also just
listening to it, you know, on headphones or in your car.
(23:22):
Having that as a tool that can't heal and and
bring us, you know, move us away from fear and
more towards love on that spectrum is beyond extraordinary. And
you know, I think we're learning there's evidence, there's greater
and greater evidence on the neurological side.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
Of of how how how.
Speaker 6 (23:43):
It can't heal the individual and thus the collective and
in our society.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
Yes, listening to music, going to shows together and listening
to music, all of it. We'll be right back with
more of the Music Saved Me podcast. And by the way,
if you like this podcast, you are going to love
our companion podcast called Taken a Walk. It's hosted by
my dear friend buzz Night, and you can find it
wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the Music
(24:13):
Saved Me Podcast, the podcast where we discussed the healing
powers of music with some of the biggest names in
music as well as up and comers. Mattie, we'll start
with you. Who are some of your favorite artists? Are
songs that have truly impacted you saying maybe a particularly
difficult time in your life.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's a good one.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
I mean, there's because there's countless.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
There's so many, you know, I can think back to
my teenage years and you know, listening to you know,
bands like Nirvana and Pearl Jam and and like you know,
you know, Green Day and bands that you know, I
looked up to when I was younger, and you know,
going through the trials and tribulations of early adulthood and
(25:05):
the Bachelor Number two record by any Man and Rufus's
Want Records are just so influential and so got me
through my early twenties, and Neil Young's Silver and Gold,
you know, around a similar.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Period of time, Harvest Moon, just.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Countless, countless acts like that, you know, you know, one
of the one of the ones that always sticks out
of my head. And it wasn't necessarily like a personal
and difficult time, but like as a nation Post nine
to eleven, Bruce Springsteen puts out the rising, and it's
just this like absolute He sums up so many of
(25:45):
the feelings we were all having, like in this way,
they're like, I don't know how you performed that magic trick,
but thank you for that, you know what I mean.
And every so often you just you just have to
come to come to this like realization, like, oh my god,
thank god I live at the time that I live
where these people gave these gifts to all of us,
(26:06):
because it's I can't imagine my life without it. And
I can put those records on that I put on
it when I was in my early twenties or in
my teens, and I have the exact same feeling that
I had, and I can remember the reason why I
was going through something in that moment.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
You know, I can re.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Experience painful as it was, like when I lost one
of my best friends to a drug overdose, or when
I lost my grandparents, or all these different feelings that
you go through in life, and they.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Come right back to you, you know.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
But then of course they're viewed through the lens of
history and all the things that you learned in process
before that, and after that it just becomes it's just
a very peaceful feeling because you get you realize, Okay,
I can put this record on whenever I want to,
and it's like, I can't believe all the anxiety that
I was having because of what was happening today just
(27:01):
drifts away. It's gone and I have that that release again.
It's it's an incredible gift.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
So, yeah, was.
Speaker 7 (27:11):
There I have a question actually where there like talking
about your grandfather, was there like a specific song that
kind of in the moment I guess of his his
life's decline and mental decline that yeah, point two.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Or yeah, you could probably google the words. I can't
remember the name of the actual artists because it was
we didn't really have it was pre pre google back yeah,
old days. But it was like, here's my song, it's
(27:51):
the song that's in my heart, and this is you know,
my grandfather who had Alzheimer's, was you know, not capable
of conversation and in a way other than kind of
reliving stories and reliving things that he had gone through
and the you know, distant, distant past. But you know,
these songs and these these these these melodies would come
(28:11):
back up and he would sing them over and over again.
He just kind of like, you know, have an appreciation
for the staying power. It lives in a different part
of you than than the part of the brain that
we typically access when we're you know, responding to an
email or driving down the highway or whatever.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
It might the case might be. It's it lives somewhere else.
It lives you know, in the soul.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
And so it's just it's it's amazing to see that
happen in real time with someone who has you know,
a mental decline or situation or you know, somethings like
like Alzheimer's, which my grandmother.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
Does that answer your question, yeah, take time to your charity.
Speaker 5 (28:55):
Yeah, well, I.
Speaker 6 (28:55):
Mean I think I think the more that I learned,
we learn, you know, but just about how there's you know,
a part of the brain that can only be communicated
with through music is and the fact that our brains
have evolved, you know, to maintain this access is said
something you know, and that makes me think of the
(29:16):
Disney film Cocoa that happened to be the first kind
of Disney film we showed our eldest who's four almost four. Yeah,
I think it's just the power to be able to
communicate and heal. You know, the music, the music, the
power that music has to do that that is beyond
a talk talking a talk therapy or somatic therapy, or
(29:38):
it makes me I.
Speaker 5 (29:39):
Can't help but cry.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
It just to make you feel better. I think almost
every one of these podcasts that I've done has brought
me to tears.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
In a good way. But it's there. I mean, you
don't see it, but I turn around, I'm.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Like, yeah, it's just so special all of that for me.
Can I share with you this song hurts, but it
goes away. Oh okay, So tell me first. You have
to tell me about the song. Because for me, having
someone my husband or my best friend, or someone anyone
(30:19):
close to me when I'm going through something they say
to me it's going to be okay, that changes everything,
especially if it's someone that you trust and love and
they tell you that, and you need to hear that sometimes.
And I was just curious if you could tell me
a little bit about that song.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Yeah, I guess the line that sticks out to me
is like I've been noticing the leaves or changing colors.
It just kind of like it's talking about the passage
of time. And despite the fact that we might be
in the thick of it right now. There's beauty in
the passage of time and the healing lies there. I'm
(30:59):
not the only one who feels the way to this,
you know, it knows it shows that you're You're not
the only person going through this. It's a shared experience,
regardless of whether or not you feel like you're at
the center of it. We've all we're all in this together,
even when it comes down to like your own personal struggles,
because we've you know, everyone shares those struggles at one
(31:21):
point or another in their life, and they are always
an invitation to take the next step and move beyond
the plane of existence that you've been on and step
towards something greater than you could you you would have
conceptualized had you not gone through that experience in the
(31:43):
first place. And so yeah, I like to say it
goes away. I mean, it's it's it's almost like it
would be better almost to say it hurts and it
stays with you, but it.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Get easier to deal with.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
It's to quote the great Britney spears stronger than yesterday.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
No, it's it's it's it's one of those things where.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
You become stronger for it, if that makes sense.
Speaker 6 (32:13):
Right, And I think as a person, as a person
who carries and lives with heightened anxiety, I'd say, you know,
and I think that there's a lot of there's a
lot of collective pain in the endemic of of anxiety,
but you know, emotional and mental pain, you know, and
suffering that we all kind of dance through on a
(32:34):
daily basis to varying degrees living with anxiety.
Speaker 5 (32:38):
It's it's really the understanding.
Speaker 6 (32:39):
That kind of trying to find the hope, hope is
the only way to kind of bring you out of
that and bring you through it and not thinking worst
case scenario, you know, bringing you out of that cycle
and that things your thoughts aren't it's not the end
of the world, you know, And that's you find that
(33:00):
and then you build that strength and that resilience to
be able to move forward.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
You know.
Speaker 6 (33:05):
Again, music is one of the main tools that can
bring me bring me through that.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Yeah, it's kind of funny.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
You could go, you could read a thousand self help
books and before you realize, like, oh, all I really
needed to do was put on my favorite record and
that that had the same effect of just release and
self actualization that you were looking for in the first place.
You know, there's a lot of like I think we
can all we've we've all been through the part where
you're kind of just I mean, I can't say this
(33:34):
is true for everyone. I'm sure it is, but like
you're just overthinking everything all the time and you're like,
oh my god, I just I've just remembered that that
harvest moon exists. I'm going to put harv of the
Moon on. I did that last week. I was like, okay,
this is everything is good now.
Speaker 5 (33:49):
The noise, you know, you're able to quiet the noise.
You're able to quiet.
Speaker 6 (33:52):
The noise, and it's like a form of meditation really,
you know, and I guess the reference kind of songs together,
songs that were poignant for me along my life.
Speaker 5 (34:04):
You know, thus far you knows.
Speaker 6 (34:07):
As a child, I grew up in a musical household
with my mother being a finalist bolis orchestra teacher, so
I couldn't help but be surrounded and played violin since
I was very young, and so classical music I was
just we listened to that so much.
Speaker 5 (34:25):
And also I have.
Speaker 6 (34:26):
Two older sisters and then my mother that that I
grew up with, and we would sing hymns a lot
as well. There are moments when I remember singing singing
hymns in my Grandma's Cadillac in small town, Minnesota where
we moved to for a handful of years. As a
kid and being the youngest, I would always add the
(34:46):
last harmony, you know, I would.
Speaker 5 (34:48):
Fit in where I could, which is a lot.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
You know.
Speaker 5 (34:51):
It applies to being in this band too.
Speaker 6 (34:53):
With my harmonies, I'm always kind of the last, the
last voice to find their way. One class little song
that I always come back to, and now I'm playing
for my one daughter who calls it the most so
so beautiful and makes her fall asleep at the same
time is dabc's Clear d Loon, which is just one
of the most that it makes me feel all of
(35:16):
the emotions whenever I put that song on, as well
as Carnival of the Animals, the Swan Song, my Sas Song,
Both of those tracks I think I could go to,
you know, for the rest of my life and have
carred with me, you know, since being a kid. But
then moving forward, Green Day's Good Ridance The Time.
Speaker 5 (35:38):
Of your Life came.
Speaker 6 (35:39):
Out right when I was twelve, Like I said, we
had moved.
Speaker 5 (35:46):
I'm born and raised Seattle.
Speaker 6 (35:48):
All my extended family were in Minnesota, including my you know,
Grandma Corrn in small town and it was kind of
near the end of her life, so my parents moved
us all out to to to become have a relationship
with her and the rest. And for me, I had
quite an existential crisis and realize that that has been,
(36:10):
you know, since then given me this kind of fierce
independence and understanding, you know, like being comfortable with isolation,
and you know, later in my life really lends itself
to to writing songs and for the first time and
et cetera. But I remember the day that we that
we moved away and we were we had like an
(36:32):
overnight actually with with our church community, and they put
Green Day's Good Riddance as the soundtrack to the photos
the photo like the slideshow.
Speaker 5 (36:43):
I was profoundly moved by that song.
Speaker 6 (36:45):
For my sisters, there is sadness for the leaving of
the relationships, the community and now we're you know, we're
moving back to Seattle.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
For me, there was it was almost tears of joy.
Speaker 6 (36:56):
And I'll never forget just the visual, the visual of
me like looking out of the rear of the car
and and it's all waving, you know, goodbye. But for
me it were it was, you know, these tiers of
of joy knowing you know, I'm good rints like I'm
(37:17):
happy to be leaving you, I'm happy to be moving
on and moving back to where I feel like my
home really is, you know, back in Seattle. And uh yeah,
I'll never you know, forget the poignants of that song
and and and come to think of it, you know,
there's such a like violin instrumental in the middle of
that song, you know, for quite a long time, and
(37:40):
uh that obviously resonates with with me. But speaking of hymns,
you know, growing up with that when I when we
moved home to Seattle, and probably a couple of years later,
right before I started getting a guitar and writing writing music.
Speaker 5 (37:56):
Sister act too. My sister and I would.
Speaker 6 (37:59):
Sing to, you know, the classic hymn His Eyes on
the Sparrow, and that was really my introduction into Lauren Hill.
Speaker 5 (38:05):
We would always, you know, do at that song.
Speaker 6 (38:08):
And there's such profound power in that in that rendition
and that song, and that really opened up my world
to you know Lauren Hill and the education her solo stuff,
and you know, she was a huge, huge influence on me,
you know, musically and just seeing the power of music.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
It's pretty powerful.
Speaker 4 (38:29):
There's something about harmonies too that I don't know what
it is. Yes, Yes, Oh my gosh, I wish I
knew what it was.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Still trying to figure it out, but we're yes.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Now.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
I have a couple of more things that I want
to ask you about before I let you go, because
you've been so generous with your time. First of all,
I wanted to comment on something you said earlier. It's
almost as if the way you were describing music was
your record shelf, for lack of a better word, or
the thing you go through to find your albums or
(39:04):
however you get your music, which is kind of dating
myself now. It's kind of like your your medicine cabinet.
Totally go in there and you have a problem and
you're looking for which one it's going to help you
get through that moment.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
That was just a comment your new album.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
Correct me if I'm wrong, But this is more about
what you had just spoken about Hope and Light. Can
you can you tell us a little bit more what
we're going to find on that new album.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
We've been going through this period of not knowing who
you are, not not not necessarily being satisfied.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
With where we are, uh, you know.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Not not necessarily appreciating the things that are beautiful that
are already there. And the idea is that, you know,
we're stepping forward into something new that feels that that's
always been there, but we're only now opening up the aperture,
opening up our ability to see it and to take
(40:09):
it in for the you know again, as if it
was you know, for the first time. And so it's
kind of like those moments in life where you've you
whether you've met to or not, you you've kind of
been having sort of some sort of long dark night
of the soul. Which I've always loved that phrase, and
(40:31):
I feel like it's very apt for songwriters and myself,
Like you go through these periods of despair and depression
and and they seem like they're going to last forever,
and all of a sudden, whatever the lessons that were
in that period of time, they can jeal in your brain.
You somehow you've translated them into the thing that that
(40:56):
or into the lesson that you needed to learn at
that point in your life, and all of a sudden,
it's like, Okay.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
I have this new I get to you know, I get.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
To take a walk down the street, and all of
a sudden, it just feels different again. I can I'm
taking notice of the color of the moss on the branches.
You know, I'm starting to see the things that were
always there but for a while you were shut off to.
And so there's there's sort of there's hope in that.
And you know, another line in the song is time
(41:29):
was made for running out. I don't know why it
took us so long. You know, the sun was made
for coming out, even though the night is long. So
it's kind of just giving you again the reassurance that
you know, you've been through this before, it's going to
happen again. But the sun always rises at the end
of the day or at the beginning of the.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Day after ang what depends on where you are.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
The wrong finality to use of that moment.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Sounds like to looking.
Speaker 4 (41:59):
What you're saying is is, you know, finding those silver
linings when things seem really the darkest, and then when
you realize what they are, it's time to celebrate that
and and be okay, which is amazing.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
It's yeah, and you were.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
It's almost as if you too were or your band
collective is it was picked to do this because you
you sound like musical therapists, but you're giving of yourself
and your skills and talents to those that need it desperately.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
And it's it's interesting.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
It's interesting to hear from your side how much you
go through this too, And I think.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
That's so important.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 4 (42:41):
I am really excited to hear about the Rivers and
is it the Rivers and Road Foundation, the Rivers, Rivers
and Roads.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Yes, Roads, tell us about that.
Speaker 5 (42:53):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think that.
Speaker 6 (42:56):
You know, so the Rivers and Roads Foundation really the
the heart mission of it is to kind of allow
greater access or to music education for for for children,
you know, in the in the Seattle area and greater community,
as well as mental health support and access to services
(43:21):
for for musicians. So a lot of you know, kind
of it was a very natural extension for the band
and how really understanding how we can support the community
that supported our band in the early days and and
the foundation leading to where we are and and again
(43:44):
going back to understanding the power of music and and
as a as a as a necessary tool to have
in in you know, for in society, young society especially,
and in all so the having a compassionate understanding of
the need for mental health support for artists and for
(44:06):
crewe you know, who support the artists on the road
and in venues and such.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
And we're lucky that we have a bunch of really
amazing pre existing nonprofits in Seattle that we kind.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Of allocate with.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
Oh yeah, yeah, So we've been able to like over
the you know, each year designated different recipient of the
funds that we've been able to raise and so and
so there's an infrastructure, you know, because our own infrastructure
is more just a fundraiser essentially, and then we were
able to give that to different organizations that can then
translate that into direct you know, a person to person
(44:45):
benefit to you know, in different communities within within Seattle.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
So that's great. You guys, just keep doing what you're doing.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
I'm so impressed and you're just so lovely and it.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Was so wonderful to meet you and Maddie and Charity.
Speaker 4 (44:59):
Please come back and see us again and share more
great stories from your career.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
I suspect you have.
Speaker 4 (45:07):
Many many, many more years of performing and giving back,
and I'm just blessed to know you, and.
Speaker 5 (45:17):
I'm grateful.
Speaker 6 (45:18):
Thank you for for having this type of podcast that
really is not you know, as you were saying earlier,
not the gossip uh fluff train of sorts. That's you know,
really getting to the heart of what makes us human,
you know, and what connects us.
Speaker 5 (45:35):
And so so thank you.
Speaker 6 (45:37):
For giving us a platform and for your time to
share it with us.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
It's really true. It's it's like what music.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
Does you know we could have We could talk to
you all day about this, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
And so that's really good.
Speaker 5 (45:48):
Wells are in school.
Speaker 4 (45:49):
We've got a few more, all right, Well listen Part
two down the road, go out, you know, kick some asks,
take some names, and just keep doing what you're doing,
keep rock in the free world. And I'm sure that
we will cross paths again and we'll have park part.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
You absolutely, yes, please, we'd love.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
To all right, Thank you so much, Thank you.
Speaker 5 (46:15):
M
Host
Lynn Hoffman
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