April 14, 2025 • 38 mins
Getting press coverage and improving your search visibility might seem out of reach for small businesses, but it doesn’t have to be. In this episode, I’m joined by Chris Panteli of Linkify to talk about how small business owners can approach PR and SEO with simple, practical steps.
We chat about what helps your business stand out to journalists, why certain details on your website matter more than you think, and how visibility and credibility go hand in hand. If you’ve been curious about how PR fits into your marketing strategy, this one’s worth a listen.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Janice Hostager (00:04):
I'm Janice Hostager.
After three decades in themarketing business and many
years of being an entrepreneur,I've learned a thing or two
about marketing.
Join me as we talk aboutmarketing, small business and
life in between.
Welcome to My Weekly Marketing.
(00:28):
Good PR meaning public relationsis something that we'll all
benefit from any small business.
In case you're new to all ofthis, public relations refers to
media coverage by a newspaperor blog or any news outlet that
shines a positive light on yourbusiness.
It's not paid, it's acooperative engagement where you
share your expertise with theiraudience.
(00:48):
Just getting PR for yourbusiness can be powerful in any
respect, but getting coveragefrom a tier one publication like
the New York Times, USA Todayor, say, NBC, can be really
beneficial and, even better yet,getting backlinks from those
top-tier digital articles toyour website.
(01:09):
That's what we're talking aboutin this episode.
Christopher Panteli is my guesttoday.
He's an entrepreneur anddigital marketing professional,
brings a unique blend oftraditional business experience
and digital innovation to hisentrepreneurial journey.
He's the co-founder of Linkifi,a digital PR agency that offers
(01:30):
ultra-premium tier-one coverageand authoritative link building
, because PR is not just forgetting seen by readers.
It's also getting noticed bysearch engines and AI.
He's got some great things totell us about how to get your
business noticed by the big guys, your audience and the search
engines.
Here's my talk with Chris.
(01:51):
Good morning, Chris, or hello,Chris.
I guess it's afternoon for you.
Welcome to my Weekly Marketing,Thank you for having me.
So I read your bio in the intro,but I'd like to start out kind
of showing my guests thateverybody starts small, right?
We all have a beginning point.
So tell me your story.
(02:11):
How did you get here?
Chris Panteli (02:14):
Oh, that's a good question.
So I went to university and gota degree in economics and then
I immediately took over thefamily fish and chip shop
business.
And then I immediately took overthe family fish and chip shop
business.
So I'd always wanted my ownbusiness.
But, um and I'd worked in thefamily shops from like 13 years
old.
I didn't really know what to doafter uni, um, so I just went
(02:35):
straight into that and I wasdoing that for about uh, 12
years, um, and then I could seethe.
The fast food industry was sortof on the decline.
It was becoming increasinglymore competitive.
You had like a healthier eatingpush as well.
Prices were continually beingbattered across the board and I
(02:59):
became a little bitdisillusioned with it as a
business model and as anindustry.
And that's when I started myfirst personal finance website.
I thought I could leverage myacademic background.
So I started a personal financeblog and quickly started to get
traffic and pretty quicklystarted making like a thousand
dollars a month.
So that sort of proved theviability of an online business
(03:23):
and I was like hooked as soon asI earned the first dollar.
But yeah, I was as soon as itstarted making significant money
, I was hooked.
And throughout that journey Istarted learning about the
importance of getting freetraffic from Google so SEO
traffic and how valuable thatwas and that it was a long-term
strategy Sort of half thatformula was content and the
(03:46):
other half was backlinks.
So I started trying to buildbacklinks myself and I came
across a platform called HARO atthe time, which stands for Help
a Reporter Out, and that was away that it would connect small
business owners with journalistsin order to provide expert
(04:07):
commentary that they weresourcing for their articles.
And if you impress thejournalist and they liked your
comments, they like your quotesthen there's a good chance that
they would quote you withintheir article and a really good
chance that they would link toyou as well.
So I started doing this.
I won my first link on New YorkTimes.
I think it was around Christmas.
Yeah, this is brilliant.
(04:28):
Um, and and as we were growing,I thought, well, this is
starting to get um to the pointwhere I can start outsourcing
some of the link building.
So I started to try andoutsource some of the like, the
guest post, uh, link buildingaspect of it.
And that's when I came acrossmy now business partner.
So, um, I found him, uh, onUpwork.
Uh, he was running a marketingagency and um, I said can you do
(04:50):
, you know, do this guest postcampaign?
Skyscraper campaign?
It was called at the time andhe started that.
And then he looked at my linkprofile and said, well, where
have you got these links from,like New York Times, BBC, Forbes
, Business Insider?
And I said, oh, I've been doingthis, HARO.
And he said, whoa, these arelike the best links you can get.
Do you think you could do thatfor some of his clients?
(05:12):
And I said, well, I don't seewhy, not as long as they give me
permission to pitch as them.
So we took on a few of hisclients and then we took on a
few more, and then a few more,and then we took on a few more
and then a few more.
And then, organically, it grew.
I was able to leave my job andwe started the Linkifi agency.
That was about four years ago.
Janice Hostager (05:30):
Wow, yeah, I mean that is impressive.
I mean I kind of played aroundwith HARO for a while and it's
no longer in existence, ofcourse, but you know it's hard
to get picked up, um, andespecially by the big names.
So you must have um some insightas to how to actually, you know
, put together an email thatactually gets attention and gets
(05:53):
picked up by the reporters.
Do you have any insight forthat?
Just in general.
Chris Panteli (05:58):
Yeah, it's, it has changed a bit.
Uh, it was a bit easier when I,when I was doing it.
Um, okay, with the onset of ai,it's.
It's really all all about, um,marrying the the two sides of
the of the equation for whatjournalists want to see, and
that is a good, strong pitch,but also, um, provable,
(06:21):
verifiable credentials andexpertise that align with the,
the topic of what they're asking.
So, for your audience and mostpeople listening, um, if you are
a real business owner, thenthen this isn't a difficult
thing to do.
It becomes tricky like, a fewfew years ago, harrow and those
sorts of platforms were gettingspammed by people that owned
(06:42):
multiple websites.
Maybe they had a website in thegardening space, they had a
website in the gardening space,they had a website in the CBD
space and you know, they werejust online marketers and they
were trying to tell thejournalists that they were an
expert gardener and they werealso an expert in CBD and it
just doesn't wash.
Now, like the journalists, theywant to be including really
verifiable, credentialed experts.
(07:03):
But it actually has made it alot easier to get world-class
coverage, as long as you choosethe queries that are suitable
for you to answer and provide agood, solid piece of commentary
that's unique and thoughtful,then you've got a really good
shot of the journalist liking itand including it within their
(07:23):
piece.
Janice Hostager (07:25):
Would you say that that's kind of key to
getting any kind of presscoverage for a small business.
It's just making sure that youhave.
.
.
yeah, okay,
Chris Panteli (07:33):
and the way that most people fall down on this is
that they just haven't got thebasics in place.
So you have to think that thisengagement with the journalists
in order to get coverage, it's acompetition.
There's many other people thatare trying to do this because
it's such a valuable thing toget, but the journalists they
are working in a fast-pacedenvironment and they want to get
(07:55):
good commentary back and thenthey want to be able to quickly
verify who you are.
And this just goes down tosuper, super simple things like
having a clear about button inthe navigation of a website.
So the journalist will come andlook at your website and they
want to click on the website andas soon as they can't see an
about to like and they've got togo three levels deep to they'll
(08:16):
just move on to another pitchand you'll lose that pitch.
So clear, clear navigationalability within the website to
find out who is behind thatwebsite.
Then, when they get there, theywant to be able to see the
person that's pitched them.
So you're the CEO of the company.
About page there's you, the CEO, your name and a picture.
They also want to double verifythat.
(08:37):
So they're not just going totrust an about page.
They'll want to see some socialproof on social media and the
most popular is LinkedIn.
So it's good to have like asmall LinkedIn favicon or icon
on the website and then alsohave a well-built out LinkedIn
profile with your name, yourqualifications and also the name
of your business.
Like, I'll see so manypotential clients come to us
(08:57):
that own fantastic businessesand they're not on the about
page and then you click on theirLinkedIn page and there's no
reference to their business ontheir LinkedIn page.
So the journalists will justmove on.
But it's really simple stuffthat can skyrocket your win rate
when you're engaging in thissort of stuff.
Janice Hostager (09:14):
And it's also important, right, because I got
my start in PR years ago butit's really also important to
keep in mind that you need toput yourself in their shoes and
know what they are looking forin terms of quotes, in terms of
what will benefit them, whatmake them look good too.
So, like I think I never heardthat about LinkedIn, though, so
that's good to know, just reallymake sure that you're
(09:36):
verifiable and that you are areal person and that you really
are who you say you are right.
Chris Panteli (09:42):
Yeah, and that's a great point, putting yourself
in their shoes.
Like I remember when I firststarted and I was trying to like
reference a blog post on mywebsite to see if they would, if
they, but that's not whatthey'd asked for.
Like you've got to read really,really carefully what they've
asked for.
If they've asked for twosentences on you know, a two
(10:03):
sentence opinion on something,or they've asked for a couple of
bullet point suggestions ondestinations that you could go
to, or, you know, name a toolthat you'd recommend one upside,
one downside like, do whatthey've asked.
Don't send them a two page PDFdocument when they've asked for
three sentences.
Don't, like shoehorn yourproduct or your service into a
(10:25):
pitch.
Like, just do what they'veasked.
Know that they're writing anarticle for their editorial
process of the publication thatthey work for.
So if they're right, if you owna health clinic or a
rehabilitation center andthey've asked a health query and
you are a health professionaland they've asked for, you know
three solid pieces of advice onX, Y and Z, then give them those
(10:49):
three solid pieces of advice.
Don't try and promote yourbusiness, because that's not
what they're looking for andthey just won't engage with that
.
Janice Hostager (10:58):
Right, right, so your sweet spot is really
using PR to get backlinks andhelp your search engine
optimization, or SEO, right?
So we'll talk about that in aminute.
But since you also do PR, Iwant to know, like, if I'm a
small business owner, what stepsshould I be taking when
developing a PR strategy?
(11:18):
Should I be going to sites likeHARO, which isn't in existence
anymore, but there are othersimilar ones, right?
Be going to sites like HARO,which isn't in existence anymore
, but there are other similarones, right?
So is that where you suggest oroutreach, following people on
Twitter or X, you know, justreally reaching out?
Or what are the steps that youtake in terms of developing a
strategy for getting presscoverage?
Chris Panteli (11:39):
Yeah, okay, so there are.
We break it down into two formsinbound digital PR, which is
where you are actively scouringfor requests from journalists to
quote experts within theirarticles.
So HARO was the biggestprovider of this service.
It then switched over toConnectively.
(12:00):
It was owned by Cision and it'snow shut down.
It no longer exists.
The original founder of that,Peter Shankman.
He's now launched a new servicecalled SOS.
Source of Sources Works in theexact same way as HARO used to
thrice daily emails Monday toFriday, lots of different
publications, sourcing fordifferent expertise, completely
free.
So 100% sign up there.
(12:20):
And there's other inboundrequest opportunities as well.
Qwoted spelled with a Q, uh, q,w.
Sorry I spelled with a Q, but W, o, t, d, um.
Another five free pitches permonth, I think, um.
And then also you have um, somepaid platforms like press plugs
.
Editorial is another one.
(12:41):
Another free one is press flow.
So sign up to as many as youcan and most of them have like a
free sort of account and that'swhere you're going to be
spending your time, settingaside a few hours a day looking
for those inbound requests andseeing what suits you If you own
an accountancy firm and you'rea CPA or a CFP or an accountant,
then look for those accountancyqueries and broader finance
(13:05):
queries.
So you want to go as broad aspossible within your strict
niche and that's basicallyinbound digital PR.
You can also follow journalistsacross social platforms like X,
Blue Sky and Threads are thethree main popular.
You'll want to find journaliststhat are writing about topics
within your vertical and followthem, set alerts when they do a
(13:28):
request.
You'll see it and they'll oftenprovide an email so you can
freely reply and hopefully givesome good commentary and get
quoted.
Then you've got outbound PR.
So, rather than waiting forjournalists that are actively
working on a story, looking forexperts to come to you with
requests or or, you know, put awide net out for requests this
(13:49):
is where we're going to come upwith a story and take that to
the journalists.
Um, so it's another approach.
You can sort of control thenarrative a bit more, as as
you're the brand, the businessbehind the story, but this
starts sounding like quite,quite like quite a big task, as
opposed to just looking foremails and replying to the ones
that you like, and it can be, um, and when you start going like
(14:14):
looking for that nationalcoverage if you own an
accountancy firm.
You can't just contactjournalists and say you know,
hello, I'm Bob, I've got anaccountancy firm.
Tell everybody to make surethey do their taxes this year,
because it's not interesting andit's not going to get picked up
by anyone, so it's got to benewsworthy, um, which is where
you have to start gathering dataand finding interesting things.
(14:37):
We that we can react to thecurrent news cycle.
So if, um, if a big firm, let'sor let's say Beyonce, was in
the news because she didn't fileher taxes on time, then as an
accountant firm, you could thenreact to that news and say you
know, write a story about whatare the consequences of not
doing your taxes in time, as perwhat's currently happening with
(15:00):
Beyonce.
So you can see already whyjournalists are going to open
that email, because it's goingto be satisfying that current
news cycle and the editorialpieces that are going out from
their publication.
But even that is can be a bitdifficult and complicated.
So my advice for smallbusinesses is you guys are have
expert knowledge, really, reallyqualified and credentialed, and
(15:22):
you just want to find thatregional news within your,
within your area.
So normally there's going to bemaybe 5, 10, 15, 20, 30, 40,
let's say, newspapers, tvchannels, radio stations that
have got websites within yourlocal area or slightly broader
(15:42):
area.
Just find all the journaliststhat are covering topics related
to the business that you're in.
So if you own an accountancyfirm, just find all the
journalists that are coveringtopics related to the business
that you're in.
So, if you own an accountancyfirm, find all the journalists
within your area for thosepublications that are writing
about accountancy and then justlook for news, either national
news that will affect your localarea or local news which is
obviously affecting the localarea.
(16:04):
Let's say you live in a localarea, you're an accountancy firm
and that local jurisdictionraises local taxes.
As an expert, you would justnaturally have a very
interesting and crediblecommentary to have about that
and you can just sendjournalists an email.
(16:25):
So there's no need to do biglists or cold outreach.
You just you know this hashappened in our area.
I'm a professional accountantoperating in this area and here
on my opinions and how it'sgoing to affect our area and
what people can do and whatpeople should think, and you
know just a few paragraphs canbuild a list of those 30, 40
journalists and you can send offthat information and you will
(16:46):
be surprised how easy it is toget coverage, that local press
coverage, for you and yourbusiness, just because of that
topical relevance to the areaand your expertise and the fact
that your business is in thatlocal area.
Janice Hostager (17:00):
Brilliant, that sounds great.
So now talk to me a little bitabout backlinks and doing PR for
SEO.
Is there anything that needs tobe done differently?
Is there a difference betweentraditional PR and PR that's
focused on SEO?
Chris Panteli (17:19):
Yeah.
So all it is is the end result,the deliverable.
So as SEOs, we inherently knowthe value of the backlink for
our organic search traffic.
So the more high quality,strong backlinks you have
pointing to your website, thenthe more that Google will trust
your website, the more it'sgoing to increase your rankings
(17:41):
and send you more traffic.
So if you run a local businesslet's say you've got a roofing
company or an accountancy firmor a plumbing business or HVAC
business in a local area acertain amount of your calls and
your leads are going to comefrom people that have typed into
Google plumbing company near me, right, and you're going to
either be in the map pack youknow, you know the little part
(18:01):
of the top that's got the, youknow the three locations in the
map pack and then further downyou're going to have those
organic results.
So Bob's Plumbing might be spotone in that local area and if
someone clicks on that and theyneed a plumber, then you've got
a good chance that they're goingto call you and you're going to
close that deal and do thatbusiness.
Whereas if you're at spot 10,very few people are going to
(18:24):
scroll down to the bottom ofpage one and almost no people
are going to go to page two, um,so you want to be at the top
and the way that you get the topis you make sure you've got
good content, so contentcovering all of the services
that you offer well written,some informational content as
well, and then also backlinks,uh, but the thing is, people in
small, local businesses.
(18:45):
What they don't realize isrealize is they are exactly what
journalists want to quote,because they've got those
expertise and those credentialsand it's oftentimes is very PR
friendly, like HVAC, plumbing,personal finance, accounting,
roofing, even like legal Justall of these things are really
(19:08):
really really always in the news.
Journalists are always lookingto quote those experts to
provide like proof of what thecontent that they're writing in
their story, to give itcredibility.
And if you can get those links,then you're going to start
seeing that your rankingsincrease far above and beyond
(19:30):
that of your competition.
There really isn't much you needto do differently other than
just be, I suppose, disappointedif you get quoted in, let's say
, realtorcom and they haven'tlinked.
So, like, traditional PR isabout coverage.
How much coverage can you get?
Can you drive brand and can youdrive information behind a
(19:54):
product and a service, whereasdigital PR link building is
about.
Okay, that's great, all thesepeople are talking about me, but
I need a link.
I want that link fromrealtorcom.
I want realtorcom to say myname and then include that
hyperlink so if someone clickson it, it takes them to my
website, because that is whatthe Google crawlers will see and
(20:15):
that's the juice that it'spassing to your site.
Janice Hostager (20:19):
So there are follow links and there are no
follow links, right?
Can you ask them to link toyour site?
Chris Panteli (20:30):
Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, no, yeah, no follow,
do follow, don't worry aboutthat.
That's, um, that's.
Digital PR is inherently goingto be a mix.
Anyway, the journalists willhave no control over the way the
links are tagged.
That will be down to theeditorial policy of the
publication.
We used to think that no followlinks didn't pass juice, but
actually that's.
That's really not the case.
(20:50):
Um, we did a joint studyactually uh, my agency and
another chat called car roof, sowe did a blind, single variable
test.
So we ranked five pages inlorem ipsum on Google, which is
like made of gibberish language,identical pages, and we sent a
no follow link to the page thatwas, to the page that was in
spot three.
Um, and that was the only thingthat was different across those
(21:14):
five pages was that single umno follow link sent to page
three and within 24 hours thatjumped to page one.
So that, as a single signal waswas a ranking signal that Google
noticed and immediately um putput, immediately put to spot one
um.
But also you want your linkprofile to look natural.
So if you have got an unnaturallooking link profile because,
(21:34):
don't forget, links is somethingwhich can be gained like
digital pr, link building iscompletely white hat.
There's like two camps white,well, three camps white hat,
gray hat, black hat.
So gray hat, black hat, thoseguys are trying to gain the
system because it is just asystem, it's an algorithm.
It can be cracked.
We know that links work.
Um, we could get links manydifferent ways pbns, niche edits
(21:56):
, guest posts, lots of differentgray hat, black hat ways to get
links.
Um, and we know links work, sopeople will get these.
But google doesn't like to seeyou gaming the system and there
is traceability to sort of allsorts of link building outside
of digital PR, because digitalPR is what all normal businesses
engage with.
(22:16):
It's just a completely normalthing to do and the link is a
byproduct of a healthy businessprocedure which is engaging the
media.
But really we're just doing itbecause we want the link.
Janice Hostager (22:30):
oh, that's good to know about follow and no
follow.
I didn't realize that, sothat's awesome.
What about social media?
What does that play a role in?
You know backlinks, and ifsomebody shares an article or
something about you in socialmedia, does that benefit the
business.
.
.
in terms of SEO?
Chris Panteli (22:50):
In terms of which way around.
So you've won the, the coverage,and then they share it on
social, or just you get pickedup about a story on social first
.
Janice Hostager (22:59):
I guess either one.
Chris Panteli (23:01):
Okay so, yeah, so getting yourself quoted in a
tier one publication is greatbecause these publications will
then share across their socialplatforms and the larger, bigger
, more established publicationswill have sometimes fairly
significant social followings,which means that that will get
(23:23):
put out to a lot of people andthey will go and read the
article and then they will clickthe links within the article
and then you will get a lot ofreferral traffic to your website
.
Google will see that referraltraffic, um, they will track
that in, like Chrome browsersand things like that, and
they'll start seeing click data.
If you've got a good website,they'll be staying on your
website, so it's all positivesignals being sent.
So that's why it's so powerful.
(23:44):
It's not just the inherent,inherent SEO value of the link,
but it's you know, it's not alink you've bought off Fiverr
and it's buried on some websitethat gets no traffic.
These are often very hightraffic websites with also large
social followings as well.
So you get all of that juicy,good, good stuff in that way.
And then the other way around,if you're getting, if you do,
(24:29):
something which gets like pickedup across social media, let's
say you own a plumbing firm andthere's been a flood in your
local area, your firm decides tohelp out some homes that have
been flooded free of charge andit all goes viral on socials
because you've done this goodthing, then that's great, Google
still sees all these socialposts and stuff, but you can
then leverage that opportunityto get links.
Like, journalists love to writeabout things that are doing
well on social, so if that'salready a story in of itself, uh
, like, a classic PR hack is ifyou find a TikTok video which
has gone viral, then you canjust tell the journalists about
(24:49):
that video and then eitherdebunk or like support whatever
they're talking about in thevideo, because journalists love
that social proof of virality onsocial.
So, yeah, it's all good stuff.
Janice Hostager (25:00):
Great, great tips.
So do you have some tips, Iwould say, for well?
Actually, let me ask this firstNow we talked about top-tier
publications like New York Timesor you know some other, really
BBC, large organizations, newsorganizations Oftentimes on the
(25:22):
sites such as HARO or some ofthe others quoted, bloggers will
also request information fornews stories.
Obviously, they don't have thepull that a tier one
organization has.
Are they still worth respondingto and doing, or is that a
place you would start, forexample, or how do you feel
(25:43):
about that?
Chris Panteli (25:45):
uh, as an agency, we we just don't engage those,
but we we've got standards thatwe have to adhere to as part of
our deliverables.
So we only want tier one um forour clients, and so we just we
blacklist and don't do anythingthat doesn't meet that um
criteria.
Um, however, if you, if you'reable to, to validate the like
(26:09):
authenticity of the, the site,and if it is hyper niche
relevant, then I don't thinkthat would necessarily be a bad
thing.
But you do need to be carefulthat the blog doesn't have a
high outbound link profile, soit's not linking to, let's say,
say, loads of casino sites whichare paying it to have the links
(26:30):
there, because then you'reputting yourself in like a bad
neighborhood.
Um, you also want to be, youwant to be careful that it's
it's, it is.
They're not producing anarticle that's like uh, that
they're they're not doing fortrue editorial reasons.
So maybe they um, they'rerequesting commentary and
(26:52):
actually they're gonna.
They're gonna take commentaryfrom anyone you might be a
plumber and they might have like30 people's opinions like a
plumber, an accountant, a lawyer, um a gardener and like it.
Really, what they're doing isthey're just then going to
leverage that piece of contentto then reach out to all of
those people to then dosomething like there might be a
hidden motive behind it.
(27:15):
So you obviously don't have toworry about that with tier one
like the bbc is not wasting itstime doing stuff like that.
That's why there's like no risk, um, but I know what you mean.
But personally I would say,don't be put off by the, the,
the strength and the like, thepower of of that big name.
I mean, I remember when I firststarted I was looking for those
(27:35):
smaller sites, thinking, youknow, this is probably going to
be easier, but it's just as easy.
Like, if you are qualified andyou are who you say you are and
you're on your about page andyou've got a strong social um
proof on platform like LinkedInand you take the time to write a
good pitch and you've adheredto the journalist's
specifications.
They've asked you to give themtwo-paragraph opinion on
(28:04):
something and they've said youmust be a, let's say, licensed
plumber.
And you are a licensed plumberand you've given two paragraphs.
There is no reason whatsoeverwhy you can't be in the BBC or
realtorcom or nasdaq or the youknow the biggest sites in the
world.
So I wouldn't be put off.
Uh, just, it can take a lot oftime.
But just like, grind it out,set aside a bit of time each day
and and you will, you will getthere.
Janice Hostager (28:25):
Do you, after a while, kind of build
relationships with thosejournalists?
Chris Panteli (28:32):
that's one of the nice byproducts and that's why
it's quite nice to to sort oftry and do this like in a
community.
Um, just because thejournalists I mean, they're not
lazy, but they everybody findsthe easiest thing, sure they can
do within the job they're doing, don't they?
So, yeah, like, if a journalistfinds, finds a source, and this
source is like a reallyprominent plumber, and then they
(28:54):
they're working on a series ofarticles in relation to plumbing
, then it's much easier for themjust to go back to this great
source and say, hey, look, youknow, I quoted you a couple of
weeks ago, I'm working on a newarticle.
Rather than having to take aresource for all new plumbers,
then have to go through andcheck who are they, who they
sell, it's much easier for themto just go back to the original
(29:15):
plumber.
But what's nice is if you're,let's say, in a plumbing
facebook group, like an industryplumbing facebook group or uh,
you know, you and you'reengaging with the media, like
tell a couple of friends to dothe same thing, um, and then you
can leverage your network tosort of pass around these
opportunities.
The journalists don't mind thatat all.
Um, so if you're in a facebookgroup and you've been quoted on
(29:38):
realtorcom, let's say threetimes, and the journalist comes
back to you a fourth time andsays you know, I've got another
article I'm working on.
You can just say look, you know, I'm on holiday for the next
two weeks.
I I've got a friend, he's alsoa plumber.
He's fantastic.
Would you like to takecommentary from him?
I can put you in touch.
The journalist will almostalways say yes, you're giving
your friend that opportunity andthen hopefully, they pay it
(29:59):
forward the next time whenthey're also doing the same
thing.
Janice Hostager (30:04):
Brilliant, very good.
So when I was in grad school, Ihad a public relations
professor who also owned a bigPR agency in the city I grew up
in, and he drilled in us that nomatter what you do for PR, it
needs to be measurable, right?
(30:25):
Can you explain the process ofmeasuring the ROI for PR
campaigns that maybe don'tgenerate well?
I suppose most of them wouldgenerate some backlinks, but are
there tools or metrics thatyou use to measure the success
of a PR campaign?
Chris Panteli (30:43):
Yeah, sure, so for us it's just the deliverable
of the link.
There is so many other likewell, I say there's so many
other, there's content and links, but we only do links.
So we're not a full serviceagency, we only do digital PR
links and clients that come touse us is because they're
already doing their content,they know they need good links.
(31:03):
So for us the deliverable isjust the link.
But in terms of the measuring,the the, the success or the
quality of the campaign it comesdown to, yeah, we use a third
party tool called Ahrefs.
Ahrefs um, which can measurethe strength of a domain based
on its link profile, um, inboundand outbound link profile.
(31:27):
So, for example, bbc, I think,is like a 98, let's say, and
then lesser sites go down umaccordingly, uh, and then it
also gives an estimated monthlyorganic sessions for each site.
So I think the bbc is like 154million monthly sessions, let's
(31:47):
say.
And what that means is how manytimes people go to that website
per month as a direct resultfrom a Google search.
So they'll type something intoGoogle and then click, and then
they'll go to BBC and Ahrefs cancalculate that, based on the
number of keywords that thatwebsite's ranking for, and then
(32:08):
the estimated volume of eachkeyword, and then from that it
extrapolates how many monthlyorganic visitors it thinks that
site's getting.
So for us, a combination ofthose two metrics being the
highest they possibly are is thethe measure, the measure of a
quality link.
So very high DR and very highorganic monthly traffic.
(32:30):
And this essentially puts thesesites into what people believe
to be the essence of that partof Google's algorithm in terms
of how it ranks websites.
So obviously, when Google firststarted, it was very difficult
for them to decide.
Well, look, we've got thisindex of sites now, so we've
figured out how to crawl theinternet and find websites based
(32:53):
on words.
But when we return results tousers, how do we know the 10
results that we're putting onpage one?
How do we know that we cantrust and that our users can
trust the information that we'reputting?
It might've been like anarticle about something very
serious like health or financehas been written by some nutcase
(33:14):
, like we need to make sure thatthese 10 results that we're
listing we can trust.
So how are we going to measurethe trust of that?
And one of the biggest signalsis links.
So if a website is brand new,it's got no content, no links,
then it's going to have no trustin Google's eyes.
So if that website writes anarticle about, let's say, cancer
(33:39):
, like a very serious topic,there's no chance that Google's
going to put that website in itsresults because it can't trust
it in its results.
Because it can't trust it If,over time, that website starts
getting links from places likeHealthline, very Well, mind the
big health sites.
These are the continual votesof confidence where Google's
(33:59):
saying well, hang on a minute.
These sites, which we think arecalled seed sites, so like a
handful of the most trustedsites in Google's eyes, if these
seed sites are linking to thissite, we trust these seed sites.
So we must therefore, byassociation, begin to trust
these other sites.
So these seed sites are the bigsites that you've heard of.
(34:21):
So New York Times, New YorkPost, Forbes, the big sites that
have got extreme high authorityand massive amounts of Google
organic traffic.
Um, and that's the other waythat you know whether or not you
can trust the site is does ithave huge amounts of organic
traffic?
Because google will only sendfree big boatloads of free
(34:43):
organic search traffic from itssearch engine to sites it trusts
.
If it doesn't trust you, it'snot going to give you traffic.
Janice Hostager (34:51):
Right, yeah, oh , this is all such great stuff.
Thank you so much, Chris, forfilling us in about all of this.
I think we get so focused onthings like ads and social media
, we kind of just like get intothis little cul-de-sac where
we're going round and round withthe same things.
Sometimes we leave out thingsas simple as this, where I mean
it's not necessarily simple, butbecause it takes effort and it
(35:14):
takes a strategy and it takestime, but the payoff can be
tremendous, right?
Chris Panteli (35:20):
yeah, well, just to leave your listeners, I would
say get started, make sureyou're about pages sorted and
you've got linkedin and sign upto those free platforms, sos
quoted, and start just trying toanswer some journalists queries
the benefits as well.
Um, you'll get those logos,you'll be, you'll have been
featured in those website withlogos and you can.
(35:41):
We call it the shark tankeffect.
Okay, if you've ever seen aproduct on shark tank, if you
ever go to that website after,first thing you'll see is as
featured in Shark Tank.
So if you get quoted in likethree, four, five websites which
everyone's heard of, put thaton the front page of your
website because your customerconversions when they're looking
for a plumber to use in yourarea and they click on one
(36:03):
plumber's website and they clickon your website and they go,
whoa, this plumber has beenfeatured in.
Like big websites.
I've heard of instant trustsignal high conversion.
Also, we're seeing that largelanguage models.
So your perplexities, your ChatGPTs they are being trained on
data and we think that the well,from sort of early results,
(36:23):
that training data is much, muchmore leaning towards tier one
trusted sources.
So that's where it's gettingits training data.
And if you're getting your name, your brand, featured in these
big publications.
We're seeing clients that haveworked with us for a long period
of time now getting surfacedwithin those large language
model results as well, so it'swell worth doing.
Janice Hostager (36:43):
That's awesome.
Where can people learn moreabout you?
Chris Panteli (36:47):
I'm on LinkedIn Christopher Panteli, I think, or
Chris Panteli P-A-N-T-E-L-I orLinkifiio, and then on YouTube
as well, Linkifi.
Janice Hostager (37:00):
Perfect.
Thanks so much for your time,Chris.
I have learned a lot, and Ithink my listeners have too.
Thanks so much.
Chris Panteli (37:06):
Oh, one more thing.
They can grab a free cheatsheet if they want, where I
break everything down, when togo.
I've got a really good AIprompt in there which you can
use to help speed things up withyour format and your pitches.
Loads of great information.
Linkifiio slash cheat dashsheet.
Janice Hostager (37:25):
Cheat dash sheet Perfect.
I'll put the link to that inthe show notes for today as well
.
Chris Panteli (37:30):
All right.
Thank you so much.
Janice Hostager (37:31):
Thanks, Chris.
Chris Panteli (37:32):
Thanks for having me, Janice.
Janice Hostager (37:34):
Alrighty.
That's a wrap for today.
I hope you're walking away withsome fresh ideas and maybe a
little boldness to reach out toreporters with some great ideas
that will help you and benefityour own business.
We'll share all the links wetalked about in our show notes
for today atmyweeklymarketingcom forward
slash 103.
If today's episode sparkedsomething for you, I'd love to
(37:58):
hear about it.
Share your thoughts by DMing meon Instagram at Janice Hostager
Marketing.
And hey, if you found thisepisode helpful, would you do me
a favor?
Share it with a friend whocould use a little marketing
inspiration as well, if youhaven't already, make sure and
hit that subscribe button so younever miss an episode.
I've got some amazing guestsand more actionable tips coming
(38:19):
your way and, trust me, youdon't wanna miss out.
Thanks for joining me.
See you next time.
Bye for now.
I'm Janice Hostager.
After three decades in themarketing business and many
years of being an entrepreneur,I've learned a thing or two
about marketing.
Join me as we talk aboutmarketing, small business and
life in between.
Welcome to My Weekly Marketing.
(00:28):
Good PR meaning public relationsis something that we'll all
benefit from any small business.
In case you're new to all ofthis, public relations refers to
media coverage by a newspaperor blog or any news outlet that
shines a positive light on yourbusiness.
It's not paid, it's acooperative engagement where you
share your expertise with theiraudience.
(00:48):
Just getting PR for yourbusiness can be powerful in any
respect, but getting coveragefrom a tier one publication like
the New York Times, USA Todayor, say, NBC, can be really
beneficial and, even better yet,getting backlinks from those
top-tier digital articles toyour website.
(01:09):
That's what we're talking aboutin this episode.
Christopher Panteli is my guesttoday.
He's an entrepreneur anddigital marketing professional,
brings a unique blend oftraditional business experience
and digital innovation to hisentrepreneurial journey.
He's the co-founder of Linkifi,a digital PR agency that offers
(01:30):
ultra-premium tier-one coverageand authoritative link building
, because PR is not just forgetting seen by readers.
It's also getting noticed bysearch engines and AI.
He's got some great things totell us about how to get your
business noticed by the big guys, your audience and the search
engines.
Here's my talk with Chris.
(01:51):
Good morning, Chris, or hello,Chris.
I guess it's afternoon for you.
Welcome to my Weekly Marketing,Thank you for having me.
So I read your bio in the intro,but I'd like to start out kind
of showing my guests thateverybody starts small, right?
We all have a beginning point.
So tell me your story.
(02:11):
How did you get here?
Chris Panteli (02:14):
Oh, that's a good question.
So I went to university and gota degree in economics and then
I immediately took over thefamily fish and chip shop
business.
And then I immediately took overthe family fish and chip shop
business.
So I'd always wanted my ownbusiness.
But, um and I'd worked in thefamily shops from like 13 years
old.
I didn't really know what to doafter uni, um, so I just went
(02:35):
straight into that and I wasdoing that for about uh, 12
years, um, and then I could seethe.
The fast food industry was sortof on the decline.
It was becoming increasinglymore competitive.
You had like a healthier eatingpush as well.
Prices were continually beingbattered across the board and I
(02:59):
became a little bitdisillusioned with it as a
business model and as anindustry.
And that's when I started myfirst personal finance website.
I thought I could leverage myacademic background.
So I started a personal financeblog and quickly started to get
traffic and pretty quicklystarted making like a thousand
dollars a month.
So that sort of proved theviability of an online business
(03:23):
and I was like hooked as soon asI earned the first dollar.
But yeah, I was as soon as itstarted making significant money
, I was hooked.
And throughout that journey Istarted learning about the
importance of getting freetraffic from Google so SEO
traffic and how valuable thatwas and that it was a long-term
strategy Sort of half thatformula was content and the
(03:46):
other half was backlinks.
So I started trying to buildbacklinks myself and I came
across a platform called HARO atthe time, which stands for Help
a Reporter Out, and that was away that it would connect small
business owners with journalistsin order to provide expert
(04:07):
commentary that they weresourcing for their articles.
And if you impress thejournalist and they liked your
comments, they like your quotesthen there's a good chance that
they would quote you withintheir article and a really good
chance that they would link toyou as well.
So I started doing this.
I won my first link on New YorkTimes.
I think it was around Christmas.
Yeah, this is brilliant.
(04:28):
Um, and and as we were growing,I thought, well, this is
starting to get um to the pointwhere I can start outsourcing
some of the link building.
So I started to try andoutsource some of the like, the
guest post, uh, link buildingaspect of it.
And that's when I came acrossmy now business partner.
So, um, I found him, uh, onUpwork.
Uh, he was running a marketingagency and um, I said can you do
(04:50):
, you know, do this guest postcampaign?
Skyscraper campaign?
It was called at the time andhe started that.
And then he looked at my linkprofile and said, well, where
have you got these links from,like New York Times, BBC, Forbes
, Business Insider?
And I said, oh, I've been doingthis, HARO.
And he said, whoa, these arelike the best links you can get.
Do you think you could do thatfor some of his clients?
(05:12):
And I said, well, I don't seewhy, not as long as they give me
permission to pitch as them.
So we took on a few of hisclients and then we took on a
few more, and then a few more,and then we took on a few more
and then a few more.
And then, organically, it grew.
I was able to leave my job andwe started the Linkifi agency.
That was about four years ago.
Janice Hostager (05:30):
Wow, yeah, I mean that is impressive.
I mean I kind of played aroundwith HARO for a while and it's
no longer in existence, ofcourse, but you know it's hard
to get picked up, um, andespecially by the big names.
So you must have um some insightas to how to actually, you know
, put together an email thatactually gets attention and gets
(05:53):
picked up by the reporters.
Do you have any insight forthat?
Just in general.
Chris Panteli (05:58):
Yeah, it's, it has changed a bit.
Uh, it was a bit easier when I,when I was doing it.
Um, okay, with the onset of ai,it's.
It's really all all about, um,marrying the the two sides of
the of the equation for whatjournalists want to see, and
that is a good, strong pitch,but also, um, provable,
(06:21):
verifiable credentials andexpertise that align with the,
the topic of what they're asking.
So, for your audience and mostpeople listening, um, if you are
a real business owner, thenthen this isn't a difficult
thing to do.
It becomes tricky like, a fewfew years ago, harrow and those
sorts of platforms were gettingspammed by people that owned
(06:42):
multiple websites.
Maybe they had a website in thegardening space, they had a
website in the gardening space,they had a website in the CBD
space and you know, they werejust online marketers and they
were trying to tell thejournalists that they were an
expert gardener and they werealso an expert in CBD and it
just doesn't wash.
Now, like the journalists, theywant to be including really
verifiable, credentialed experts.
(07:03):
But it actually has made it alot easier to get world-class
coverage, as long as you choosethe queries that are suitable
for you to answer and provide agood, solid piece of commentary
that's unique and thoughtful,then you've got a really good
shot of the journalist liking itand including it within their
(07:23):
piece.
Janice Hostager (07:25):
Would you say that that's kind of key to
getting any kind of presscoverage for a small business.
It's just making sure that youhave.
.
.
yeah, okay,
Chris Panteli (07:33):
and the way that most people fall down on this is
that they just haven't got thebasics in place.
So you have to think that thisengagement with the journalists
in order to get coverage, it's acompetition.
There's many other people thatare trying to do this because
it's such a valuable thing toget, but the journalists they
are working in a fast-pacedenvironment and they want to get
(07:55):
good commentary back and thenthey want to be able to quickly
verify who you are.
And this just goes down tosuper, super simple things like
having a clear about button inthe navigation of a website.
So the journalist will come andlook at your website and they
want to click on the website andas soon as they can't see an
about to like and they've got togo three levels deep to they'll
(08:16):
just move on to another pitchand you'll lose that pitch.
So clear, clear navigationalability within the website to
find out who is behind thatwebsite.
Then, when they get there, theywant to be able to see the
person that's pitched them.
So you're the CEO of the company.
About page there's you, the CEO, your name and a picture.
They also want to double verifythat.
(08:37):
So they're not just going totrust an about page.
They'll want to see some socialproof on social media and the
most popular is LinkedIn.
So it's good to have like asmall LinkedIn favicon or icon
on the website and then alsohave a well-built out LinkedIn
profile with your name, yourqualifications and also the name
of your business.
Like, I'll see so manypotential clients come to us
(08:57):
that own fantastic businessesand they're not on the about
page and then you click on theirLinkedIn page and there's no
reference to their business ontheir LinkedIn page.
So the journalists will justmove on.
But it's really simple stuffthat can skyrocket your win rate
when you're engaging in thissort of stuff.
Janice Hostager (09:14):
And it's also important, right, because I got
my start in PR years ago butit's really also important to
keep in mind that you need toput yourself in their shoes and
know what they are looking forin terms of quotes, in terms of
what will benefit them, whatmake them look good too.
So, like I think I never heardthat about LinkedIn, though, so
that's good to know, just reallymake sure that you're
(09:36):
verifiable and that you are areal person and that you really
are who you say you are right.
Chris Panteli (09:42):
Yeah, and that's a great point, putting yourself
in their shoes.
Like I remember when I firststarted and I was trying to like
reference a blog post on mywebsite to see if they would, if
they, but that's not whatthey'd asked for.
Like you've got to read really,really carefully what they've
asked for.
If they've asked for twosentences on you know, a two
(10:03):
sentence opinion on something,or they've asked for a couple of
bullet point suggestions ondestinations that you could go
to, or, you know, name a toolthat you'd recommend one upside,
one downside like, do whatthey've asked.
Don't send them a two page PDFdocument when they've asked for
three sentences.
Don't, like shoehorn yourproduct or your service into a
(10:25):
pitch.
Like, just do what they'veasked.
Know that they're writing anarticle for their editorial
process of the publication thatthey work for.
So if they're right, if you owna health clinic or a
rehabilitation center andthey've asked a health query and
you are a health professionaland they've asked for, you know
three solid pieces of advice onX, Y and Z, then give them those
(10:49):
three solid pieces of advice.
Don't try and promote yourbusiness, because that's not
what they're looking for andthey just won't engage with that
.
Janice Hostager (10:58):
Right, right, so your sweet spot is really
using PR to get backlinks andhelp your search engine
optimization, or SEO, right?
So we'll talk about that in aminute.
But since you also do PR, Iwant to know, like, if I'm a
small business owner, what stepsshould I be taking when
developing a PR strategy?
(11:18):
Should I be going to sites likeHARO, which isn't in existence
anymore, but there are othersimilar ones, right?
Be going to sites like HARO,which isn't in existence anymore
, but there are other similarones, right?
So is that where you suggest oroutreach, following people on
Twitter or X, you know, justreally reaching out?
Or what are the steps that youtake in terms of developing a
strategy for getting presscoverage?
Chris Panteli (11:39):
Yeah, okay, so there are.
We break it down into two formsinbound digital PR, which is
where you are actively scouringfor requests from journalists to
quote experts within theirarticles.
So HARO was the biggestprovider of this service.
It then switched over toConnectively.
(12:00):
It was owned by Cision and it'snow shut down.
It no longer exists.
The original founder of that,Peter Shankman.
He's now launched a new servicecalled SOS.
Source of Sources Works in theexact same way as HARO used to
thrice daily emails Monday toFriday, lots of different
publications, sourcing fordifferent expertise, completely
free.
So 100% sign up there.
(12:20):
And there's other inboundrequest opportunities as well.
Qwoted spelled with a Q, uh, q,w.
Sorry I spelled with a Q, but W, o, t, d, um.
Another five free pitches permonth, I think, um.
And then also you have um, somepaid platforms like press plugs
.
Editorial is another one.
(12:41):
Another free one is press flow.
So sign up to as many as youcan and most of them have like a
free sort of account and that'swhere you're going to be
spending your time, settingaside a few hours a day looking
for those inbound requests andseeing what suits you If you own
an accountancy firm and you'rea CPA or a CFP or an accountant,
then look for those accountancyqueries and broader finance
(13:05):
queries.
So you want to go as broad aspossible within your strict
niche and that's basicallyinbound digital PR.
You can also follow journalistsacross social platforms like X,
Blue Sky and Threads are thethree main popular.
You'll want to find journaliststhat are writing about topics
within your vertical and followthem, set alerts when they do a
(13:28):
request.
You'll see it and they'll oftenprovide an email so you can
freely reply and hopefully givesome good commentary and get
quoted.
Then you've got outbound PR.
So, rather than waiting forjournalists that are actively
working on a story, looking forexperts to come to you with
requests or or, you know, put awide net out for requests this
(13:49):
is where we're going to come upwith a story and take that to
the journalists.
Um, so it's another approach.
You can sort of control thenarrative a bit more, as as
you're the brand, the businessbehind the story, but this
starts sounding like quite,quite like quite a big task, as
opposed to just looking foremails and replying to the ones
that you like, and it can be, um, and when you start going like
(14:14):
looking for that nationalcoverage if you own an
accountancy firm.
You can't just contactjournalists and say you know,
hello, I'm Bob, I've got anaccountancy firm.
Tell everybody to make surethey do their taxes this year,
because it's not interesting andit's not going to get picked up
by anyone, so it's got to benewsworthy, um, which is where
you have to start gathering dataand finding interesting things.
(14:37):
We that we can react to thecurrent news cycle.
So if, um, if a big firm, let'sor let's say Beyonce, was in
the news because she didn't fileher taxes on time, then as an
accountant firm, you could thenreact to that news and say you
know, write a story about whatare the consequences of not
doing your taxes in time, as perwhat's currently happening with
(15:00):
Beyonce.
So you can see already whyjournalists are going to open
that email, because it's goingto be satisfying that current
news cycle and the editorialpieces that are going out from
their publication.
But even that is can be a bitdifficult and complicated.
So my advice for smallbusinesses is you guys are have
expert knowledge, really, reallyqualified and credentialed, and
(15:22):
you just want to find thatregional news within your,
within your area.
So normally there's going to bemaybe 5, 10, 15, 20, 30, 40,
let's say, newspapers, tvchannels, radio stations that
have got websites within yourlocal area or slightly broader
(15:42):
area.
Just find all the journaliststhat are covering topics related
to the business that you're in.
So if you own an accountancyfirm, just find all the
journalists that are coveringtopics related to the business
that you're in.
So, if you own an accountancyfirm, find all the journalists
within your area for thosepublications that are writing
about accountancy and then justlook for news, either national
news that will affect your localarea or local news which is
obviously affecting the localarea.
(16:04):
Let's say you live in a localarea, you're an accountancy firm
and that local jurisdictionraises local taxes.
As an expert, you would justnaturally have a very
interesting and crediblecommentary to have about that
and you can just sendjournalists an email.
(16:25):
So there's no need to do biglists or cold outreach.
You just you know this hashappened in our area.
I'm a professional accountantoperating in this area and here
on my opinions and how it'sgoing to affect our area and
what people can do and whatpeople should think, and you
know just a few paragraphs canbuild a list of those 30, 40
journalists and you can send offthat information and you will
(16:46):
be surprised how easy it is toget coverage, that local press
coverage, for you and yourbusiness, just because of that
topical relevance to the areaand your expertise and the fact
that your business is in thatlocal area.
Janice Hostager (17:00):
Brilliant, that sounds great.
So now talk to me a little bitabout backlinks and doing PR for
SEO.
Is there anything that needs tobe done differently?
Is there a difference betweentraditional PR and PR that's
focused on SEO?
Chris Panteli (17:19):
Yeah.
So all it is is the end result,the deliverable.
So as SEOs, we inherently knowthe value of the backlink for
our organic search traffic.
So the more high quality,strong backlinks you have
pointing to your website, thenthe more that Google will trust
your website, the more it'sgoing to increase your rankings
(17:41):
and send you more traffic.
So if you run a local businesslet's say you've got a roofing
company or an accountancy firmor a plumbing business or HVAC
business in a local area acertain amount of your calls and
your leads are going to comefrom people that have typed into
Google plumbing company near me, right, and you're going to
either be in the map pack youknow, you know the little part
(18:01):
of the top that's got the, youknow the three locations in the
map pack and then further downyou're going to have those
organic results.
So Bob's Plumbing might be spotone in that local area and if
someone clicks on that and theyneed a plumber, then you've got
a good chance that they're goingto call you and you're going to
close that deal and do thatbusiness.
Whereas if you're at spot 10,very few people are going to
(18:24):
scroll down to the bottom ofpage one and almost no people
are going to go to page two, um,so you want to be at the top
and the way that you get the topis you make sure you've got
good content, so contentcovering all of the services
that you offer well written,some informational content as
well, and then also backlinks,uh, but the thing is, people in
small, local businesses.
(18:45):
What they don't realize isrealize is they are exactly what
journalists want to quote,because they've got those
expertise and those credentialsand it's oftentimes is very PR
friendly, like HVAC, plumbing,personal finance, accounting,
roofing, even like legal Justall of these things are really
(19:08):
really really always in the news.
Journalists are always lookingto quote those experts to
provide like proof of what thecontent that they're writing in
their story, to give itcredibility.
And if you can get those links,then you're going to start
seeing that your rankingsincrease far above and beyond
(19:30):
that of your competition.
There really isn't much you needto do differently other than
just be, I suppose, disappointedif you get quoted in, let's say
, realtorcom and they haven'tlinked.
So, like, traditional PR isabout coverage.
How much coverage can you get?
Can you drive brand and can youdrive information behind a
(19:54):
product and a service, whereasdigital PR link building is
about.
Okay, that's great, all thesepeople are talking about me, but
I need a link.
I want that link fromrealtorcom.
I want realtorcom to say myname and then include that
hyperlink so if someone clickson it, it takes them to my
website, because that is whatthe Google crawlers will see and
(20:15):
that's the juice that it'spassing to your site.
Janice Hostager (20:19):
So there are follow links and there are no
follow links, right?
Can you ask them to link toyour site?
Chris Panteli (20:30):
Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, no, yeah, no follow,
do follow, don't worry aboutthat.
That's, um, that's.
Digital PR is inherently goingto be a mix.
Anyway, the journalists willhave no control over the way the
links are tagged.
That will be down to theeditorial policy of the
publication.
We used to think that no followlinks didn't pass juice, but
actually that's.
That's really not the case.
(20:50):
Um, we did a joint studyactually uh, my agency and
another chat called car roof, sowe did a blind, single variable
test.
So we ranked five pages inlorem ipsum on Google, which is
like made of gibberish language,identical pages, and we sent a
no follow link to the page thatwas, to the page that was in
spot three.
Um, and that was the only thingthat was different across those
(21:14):
five pages was that single umno follow link sent to page
three and within 24 hours thatjumped to page one.
So that, as a single signal waswas a ranking signal that Google
noticed and immediately um putput, immediately put to spot one
um.
But also you want your linkprofile to look natural.
So if you have got an unnaturallooking link profile because,
(21:34):
don't forget, links is somethingwhich can be gained like
digital pr, link building iscompletely white hat.
There's like two camps white,well, three camps white hat,
gray hat, black hat.
So gray hat, black hat, thoseguys are trying to gain the
system because it is just asystem, it's an algorithm.
It can be cracked.
We know that links work.
Um, we could get links manydifferent ways pbns, niche edits
(21:56):
, guest posts, lots of differentgray hat, black hat ways to get
links.
Um, and we know links work, sopeople will get these.
But google doesn't like to seeyou gaming the system and there
is traceability to sort of allsorts of link building outside
of digital PR, because digitalPR is what all normal businesses
engage with.
(22:16):
It's just a completely normalthing to do and the link is a
byproduct of a healthy businessprocedure which is engaging the
media.
But really we're just doing itbecause we want the link.
Janice Hostager (22:30):
oh, that's good to know about follow and no
follow.
I didn't realize that, sothat's awesome.
What about social media?
What does that play a role in?
You know backlinks, and ifsomebody shares an article or
something about you in socialmedia, does that benefit the
business.
.
.
in terms of SEO?
Chris Panteli (22:50):
In terms of which way around.
So you've won the, the coverage,and then they share it on
social, or just you get pickedup about a story on social first
.
Janice Hostager (22:59):
I guess either one.
Chris Panteli (23:01):
Okay so, yeah, so getting yourself quoted in a
tier one publication is greatbecause these publications will
then share across their socialplatforms and the larger, bigger
, more established publicationswill have sometimes fairly
significant social followings,which means that that will get
(23:23):
put out to a lot of people andthey will go and read the
article and then they will clickthe links within the article
and then you will get a lot ofreferral traffic to your website
.
Google will see that referraltraffic, um, they will track
that in, like Chrome browsersand things like that, and
they'll start seeing click data.
If you've got a good website,they'll be staying on your
website, so it's all positivesignals being sent.
So that's why it's so powerful.
(23:44):
It's not just the inherent,inherent SEO value of the link,
but it's you know, it's not alink you've bought off Fiverr
and it's buried on some websitethat gets no traffic.
These are often very hightraffic websites with also large
social followings as well.
So you get all of that juicy,good, good stuff in that way.
And then the other way around,if you're getting, if you do,
(24:29):
something which gets like pickedup across social media, let's
say you own a plumbing firm andthere's been a flood in your
local area, your firm decides tohelp out some homes that have
been flooded free of charge andit all goes viral on socials
because you've done this goodthing, then that's great, Google
still sees all these socialposts and stuff, but you can
then leverage that opportunityto get links.
Like, journalists love to writeabout things that are doing
well on social, so if that'salready a story in of itself, uh
, like, a classic PR hack is ifyou find a TikTok video which
has gone viral, then you canjust tell the journalists about
(24:49):
that video and then eitherdebunk or like support whatever
they're talking about in thevideo, because journalists love
that social proof of virality onsocial.
So, yeah, it's all good stuff.
Janice Hostager (25:00):
Great, great tips.
So do you have some tips, Iwould say, for well?
Actually, let me ask this firstNow we talked about top-tier
publications like New York Timesor you know some other, really
BBC, large organizations, newsorganizations Oftentimes on the
(25:22):
sites such as HARO or some ofthe others quoted, bloggers will
also request information fornews stories.
Obviously, they don't have thepull that a tier one
organization has.
Are they still worth respondingto and doing, or is that a
place you would start, forexample, or how do you feel
(25:43):
about that?
Chris Panteli (25:45):
uh, as an agency, we we just don't engage those,
but we we've got standards thatwe have to adhere to as part of
our deliverables.
So we only want tier one um forour clients, and so we just we
blacklist and don't do anythingthat doesn't meet that um
criteria.
Um, however, if you, if you'reable to, to validate the like
(26:09):
authenticity of the, the site,and if it is hyper niche
relevant, then I don't thinkthat would necessarily be a bad
thing.
But you do need to be carefulthat the blog doesn't have a
high outbound link profile, soit's not linking to, let's say,
say, loads of casino sites whichare paying it to have the links
(26:30):
there, because then you'reputting yourself in like a bad
neighborhood.
Um, you also want to be, youwant to be careful that it's
it's, it is.
They're not producing anarticle that's like uh, that
they're they're not doing fortrue editorial reasons.
So maybe they um, they'rerequesting commentary and
(26:52):
actually they're gonna.
They're gonna take commentaryfrom anyone you might be a
plumber and they might have like30 people's opinions like a
plumber, an accountant, a lawyer, um a gardener and like it.
Really, what they're doing isthey're just then going to
leverage that piece of contentto then reach out to all of
those people to then dosomething like there might be a
hidden motive behind it.
(27:15):
So you obviously don't have toworry about that with tier one
like the bbc is not wasting itstime doing stuff like that.
That's why there's like no risk, um, but I know what you mean.
But personally I would say,don't be put off by the, the,
the strength and the like, thepower of of that big name.
I mean, I remember when I firststarted I was looking for those
(27:35):
smaller sites, thinking, youknow, this is probably going to
be easier, but it's just as easy.
Like, if you are qualified andyou are who you say you are and
you're on your about page andyou've got a strong social um
proof on platform like LinkedInand you take the time to write a
good pitch and you've adheredto the journalist's
specifications.
They've asked you to give themtwo-paragraph opinion on
(28:04):
something and they've said youmust be a, let's say, licensed
plumber.
And you are a licensed plumberand you've given two paragraphs.
There is no reason whatsoeverwhy you can't be in the BBC or
realtorcom or nasdaq or the youknow the biggest sites in the
world.
So I wouldn't be put off.
Uh, just, it can take a lot oftime.
But just like, grind it out,set aside a bit of time each day
and and you will, you will getthere.
Janice Hostager (28:25):
Do you, after a while, kind of build
relationships with thosejournalists?
Chris Panteli (28:32):
that's one of the nice byproducts and that's why
it's quite nice to to sort oftry and do this like in a
community.
Um, just because thejournalists I mean, they're not
lazy, but they everybody findsthe easiest thing, sure they can
do within the job they're doing, don't they?
So, yeah, like, if a journalistfinds, finds a source, and this
source is like a reallyprominent plumber, and then they
(28:54):
they're working on a series ofarticles in relation to plumbing
, then it's much easier for themjust to go back to this great
source and say, hey, look, youknow, I quoted you a couple of
weeks ago, I'm working on a newarticle.
Rather than having to take aresource for all new plumbers,
then have to go through andcheck who are they, who they
sell, it's much easier for themto just go back to the original
(29:15):
plumber.
But what's nice is if you're,let's say, in a plumbing
facebook group, like an industryplumbing facebook group or uh,
you know, you and you'reengaging with the media, like
tell a couple of friends to dothe same thing, um, and then you
can leverage your network tosort of pass around these
opportunities.
The journalists don't mind thatat all.
Um, so if you're in a facebookgroup and you've been quoted on
(29:38):
realtorcom, let's say threetimes, and the journalist comes
back to you a fourth time andsays you know, I've got another
article I'm working on.
You can just say look, you know, I'm on holiday for the next
two weeks.
I I've got a friend, he's alsoa plumber.
He's fantastic.
Would you like to takecommentary from him?
I can put you in touch.
The journalist will almostalways say yes, you're giving
your friend that opportunity andthen hopefully, they pay it
(29:59):
forward the next time whenthey're also doing the same
thing.
Janice Hostager (30:04):
Brilliant, very good.
So when I was in grad school, Ihad a public relations
professor who also owned a bigPR agency in the city I grew up
in, and he drilled in us that nomatter what you do for PR, it
needs to be measurable, right?
(30:25):
Can you explain the process ofmeasuring the ROI for PR
campaigns that maybe don'tgenerate well?
I suppose most of them wouldgenerate some backlinks, but are
there tools or metrics thatyou use to measure the success
of a PR campaign?
Chris Panteli (30:43):
Yeah, sure, so for us it's just the deliverable
of the link.
There is so many other likewell, I say there's so many
other, there's content and links, but we only do links.
So we're not a full serviceagency, we only do digital PR
links and clients that come touse us is because they're
already doing their content,they know they need good links.
(31:03):
So for us the deliverable isjust the link.
But in terms of the measuring,the the, the success or the
quality of the campaign it comesdown to, yeah, we use a third
party tool called Ahrefs.
Ahrefs um, which can measurethe strength of a domain based
on its link profile, um, inboundand outbound link profile.
(31:27):
So, for example, bbc, I think,is like a 98, let's say, and
then lesser sites go down umaccordingly, uh, and then it
also gives an estimated monthlyorganic sessions for each site.
So I think the bbc is like 154million monthly sessions, let's
(31:47):
say.
And what that means is how manytimes people go to that website
per month as a direct resultfrom a Google search.
So they'll type something intoGoogle and then click, and then
they'll go to BBC and Ahrefs cancalculate that, based on the
number of keywords that thatwebsite's ranking for, and then
(32:08):
the estimated volume of eachkeyword, and then from that it
extrapolates how many monthlyorganic visitors it thinks that
site's getting.
So for us, a combination ofthose two metrics being the
highest they possibly are is thethe measure, the measure of a
quality link.
So very high DR and very highorganic monthly traffic.
(32:30):
And this essentially puts thesesites into what people believe
to be the essence of that partof Google's algorithm in terms
of how it ranks websites.
So obviously, when Google firststarted, it was very difficult
for them to decide.
Well, look, we've got thisindex of sites now, so we've
figured out how to crawl theinternet and find websites based
(32:53):
on words.
But when we return results tousers, how do we know the 10
results that we're putting onpage one?
How do we know that we cantrust and that our users can
trust the information that we'reputting?
It might've been like anarticle about something very
serious like health or financehas been written by some nutcase
(33:14):
, like we need to make sure thatthese 10 results that we're
listing we can trust.
So how are we going to measurethe trust of that?
And one of the biggest signalsis links.
So if a website is brand new,it's got no content, no links,
then it's going to have no trustin Google's eyes.
So if that website writes anarticle about, let's say, cancer
(33:39):
, like a very serious topic,there's no chance that Google's
going to put that website in itsresults because it can't trust
it in its results.
Because it can't trust it If,over time, that website starts
getting links from places likeHealthline, very Well, mind the
big health sites.
These are the continual votesof confidence where Google's
(33:59):
saying well, hang on a minute.
These sites, which we think arecalled seed sites, so like a
handful of the most trustedsites in Google's eyes, if these
seed sites are linking to thissite, we trust these seed sites.
So we must therefore, byassociation, begin to trust
these other sites.
So these seed sites are the bigsites that you've heard of.
(34:21):
So New York Times, New YorkPost, Forbes, the big sites that
have got extreme high authorityand massive amounts of Google
organic traffic.
Um, and that's the other waythat you know whether or not you
can trust the site is does ithave huge amounts of organic
traffic?
Because google will only sendfree big boatloads of free
(34:43):
organic search traffic from itssearch engine to sites it trusts
.
If it doesn't trust you, it'snot going to give you traffic.
Janice Hostager (34:51):
Right, yeah, oh , this is all such great stuff.
Thank you so much, Chris, forfilling us in about all of this.
I think we get so focused onthings like ads and social media
, we kind of just like get intothis little cul-de-sac where
we're going round and round withthe same things.
Sometimes we leave out thingsas simple as this, where I mean
it's not necessarily simple, butbecause it takes effort and it
(35:14):
takes a strategy and it takestime, but the payoff can be
tremendous, right?
Chris Panteli (35:20):
yeah, well, just to leave your listeners, I would
say get started, make sureyou're about pages sorted and
you've got linkedin and sign upto those free platforms, sos
quoted, and start just trying toanswer some journalists queries
the benefits as well.
Um, you'll get those logos,you'll be, you'll have been
featured in those website withlogos and you can.
(35:41):
We call it the shark tankeffect.
Okay, if you've ever seen aproduct on shark tank, if you
ever go to that website after,first thing you'll see is as
featured in Shark Tank.
So if you get quoted in likethree, four, five websites which
everyone's heard of, put thaton the front page of your
website because your customerconversions when they're looking
for a plumber to use in yourarea and they click on one
(36:03):
plumber's website and they clickon your website and they go,
whoa, this plumber has beenfeatured in.
Like big websites.
I've heard of instant trustsignal high conversion.
Also, we're seeing that largelanguage models.
So your perplexities, your ChatGPTs they are being trained on
data and we think that the well,from sort of early results,
(36:23):
that training data is much, muchmore leaning towards tier one
trusted sources.
So that's where it's gettingits training data.
And if you're getting your name, your brand, featured in these
big publications.
We're seeing clients that haveworked with us for a long period
of time now getting surfacedwithin those large language
model results as well, so it'swell worth doing.
Janice Hostager (36:43):
That's awesome.
Where can people learn moreabout you?
Chris Panteli (36:47):
I'm on LinkedIn Christopher Panteli, I think, or
Chris Panteli P-A-N-T-E-L-I orLinkifiio, and then on YouTube
as well, Linkifi.
Janice Hostager (37:00):
Perfect.
Thanks so much for your time,Chris.
I have learned a lot, and Ithink my listeners have too.
Thanks so much.
Chris Panteli (37:06):
Oh, one more thing.
They can grab a free cheatsheet if they want, where I
break everything down, when togo.
I've got a really good AIprompt in there which you can
use to help speed things up withyour format and your pitches.
Loads of great information.
Linkifiio slash cheat dashsheet.
Janice Hostager (37:25):
Cheat dash sheet Perfect.
I'll put the link to that inthe show notes for today as well
.
Chris Panteli (37:30):
All right.
Thank you so much.
Janice Hostager (37:31):
Thanks, Chris.
Chris Panteli (37:32):
Thanks for having me, Janice.
Janice Hostager (37:34):
Alrighty.
That's a wrap for today.
I hope you're walking away withsome fresh ideas and maybe a
little boldness to reach out toreporters with some great ideas
that will help you and benefityour own business.
We'll share all the links wetalked about in our show notes
for today atmyweeklymarketingcom forward
slash 103.
If today's episode sparkedsomething for you, I'd love to
(37:58):
hear about it.
Share your thoughts by DMing meon Instagram at Janice Hostager
Marketing.
And hey, if you found thisepisode helpful, would you do me
a favor?
Share it with a friend whocould use a little marketing
inspiration as well, if youhaven't already, make sure and
hit that subscribe button so younever miss an episode.
I've got some amazing guestsand more actionable tips coming
(38:19):
your way and, trust me, youdon't wanna miss out.
Thanks for joining me.
See you next time.
Bye for now.
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