April 4, 2025 • 41 mins
If your child was a victim of sextortion, how do you report this? What is next? We want to walk you through some practical next steps on what to do next.
KEEPING KIDS SAFE ONLINE
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Next Talk podcast.
We are a nonprofit passionateabout keeping kids safe online.
We're learning together how tonavigate tech, culture and faith
with our kids.
I have such a special guest onthe Next Talk podcast today.
This is Belinda Swan from theNational Center for Missing and
(00:23):
Exploited Children.
They do amazing work.
Thanks for being here, belinda.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
My pleasure.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Tell us a little bit about your organization and a
little bit about yourself.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
All right.
Well, the National Center forMissing and Exploited Children,
or NCMEC, has been around for 40years.
We've just celebrated our 40thanniversary last year.
Many folks may make theconnection between the National
Center and two of our morefamous founders because of their
amazing work in this space Johnand Revae Walsh.
As many folks may remember,they too are survivors.
(01:01):
Their son, Adam Walsh, wasabducted and later found
deceased.
He was abducted from a shoppingcenter in Florida and it was
the Walshes and several otherjust absolutely brave and
amazing families survivorsthemselves who'd experienced the
loss of a child who cametogether and recognized at that
(01:24):
time that it was easier toreport and track a missing car
than a missing child.
And so if you're a human of acertain age like myself, you may
remember a lot of our campaignsthroughout the years to get the
word out about missing childrenby our posters and so on.
But what a lot of folks don'tknow is that we absolutely do a
ton of other work in the spaceof child exploitation and in
(01:46):
prevention and outreach, whichis why I'm here today.
So our Missing Children Divisionobviously helps to support
families of missing children.
We work closely with lawenforcement.
We are the folks behind a lotof the missing child posters.
We collect tips, share thatinformation with law enforcement
.
We provide case management andsupport in that regard to law
(02:07):
enforcement as well, and ourchild exploitation division,
which I will be leaning onheavily today, with a lot of
their amazing work via our CyberTip Line and 1-800-THE-LOST,
which we'll talk about, we'reable to collect and review and
reports to help us understandthe child safety issues that are
most affecting kids today andbecause of that information I'm
(02:30):
able to speak about those trendsin real time.
Our amazing team is able todevelop prevention resources
that folks can utilize today.
So we do a lot of work andwe'll get into some of those
specifics, I'm sure, but ingeneral, we're here because we
believe every child deserves asafe childhood, just as I know
that you do and all of yourlisteners.
(02:52):
So again, just an honor to behere.
I am currently in Austin, Texas.
I'm born and raised, or wasborn and raised, in Alice, Texas
.
I've been in Austin for 25years and I've been with NCMEC
for five years now.
Okay.
And you're a parent yourself,correct?
I am a parent of a wonderfulnine-year-old who keeps me on my
toes, and several times I havesaid to my parents I'm sorry, I
(03:19):
understand and I get it now.
So, yes, a parent's first andalways, and I've worked in this
space for many years, and sothis opportunity is just
fantastic to be able to talk toyou and your listeners.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Well, I think that makes you an excellent guest
because you know behind thescenes, at home what needs to
happen to build thatrelationship.
But you also are very educatedon the real dangers our kids
face, and I think thatcombination is what we want to
take into every home.
You know, not panic, not fear,but real education, real
awareness and then that abilityto build that relationship with
(03:52):
their kid.
But we have covered a lot ofstuff on sextortion.
We had a dad on who lost hisson to this.
We have done a lot of educationand awareness around what
sextortion is and the kind ofthe schemes that online
predators often use to targetkids online.
So we've done a lot of that.
(04:13):
What we have not done that Ithink that you guys are doing
really well is what to do ifyour kid has been a victim of
sextortion.
First of all, I want you todefine it for our guest again,
just to so we're all on the samepage, and then I want you to
walk us through, because I getthese messages like this has
happened.
(04:33):
What do I do?
Next steps, and I literallyalways send them to your website
.
So, I'm like I gotta have thisgirl on.
So we have an actual podcastalso that they can listen to.
So let's define it first andthen move into the steps.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So sextortion is a type of online enticement or
child exploitation where theperpetrator's goal is generally
to obtain nude imagery or videosor other similar content of a
child, to either blackmail orsextort the child into creating
additional content.
(05:08):
Sometimes the goal of theperpetrator is actual sexual
contact with the child, but whatwe've seen more recently is a
huge uptick in financialsextortion, and I'd love to
define that as well for yourlisteners, and so we can hone in
on that as well.
So over the course of the lastseveral years I'll share this
(05:30):
again since we, since theNational Center maintains
1-800-THE-LOST and the Cyber TipLine, we collect reports
throughout the year.
The Cyber Tip Line is whereanyone can file a cyber, a
cyber-tripline report about anytype of exploitation of a child.
In 2023, our 2024 data shouldbe available and on our website
(05:51):
in the weeks to come, but in2023, we received about 36
million reports.
As I mentioned before, we'reable to take a deep dive, look
at that data and and talk to youabout what we're seeing, and
one of the trends we continue tosee is that uptick in financial
sextortion.
So we know what sextortion isfinancial sextortion, which is
(06:11):
just a little different but, asthe name suggests is motivated
by money.
So what we know, based onreports to the National Center
in 2023, we received about27,000 reports of financial
sextortion and of those reports,about 90% of the child victims
were male between the ages of 14and 17.
(06:32):
So in other types of sextortion,where the goal may have been
sexual content or to blackmailthe child and producing
additional images or videos,with financial sextortion, the
perpetrator, once they've gainedthe child's trust, the child
may think that this personthey're talking to may have
stolen photos from some otherplace and is presenting
(06:52):
themselves as a potential loveinterest or friend, an
age-appropriate friend even.
And once the perpetrator gainsthe child's trust and gets them
to put their or take their guarddown or introduces content to
them and makes it okay for thefor the child to share their own
images, they flip the script onthem and they immediately start
(07:14):
demanding money.
And consider our own selves at14.
I certainly had no money andwould have been terrified to
tell my mom and dad what I haddone and what situation I was in
, so I'd be remiss if I didn'tshare that many cases of
financial sextortion haveresulted in death by suicide.
(07:36):
So when we're talking aboutsextortion, we're talking about
financial sextortion as well.
I think what we're talkingabout is vulnerable and scared
children who are simplyexploring their own questions
about sex, about relationships,and oftentimes perpetrators
realize, recognize thosevulnerabilities and take
advantage of them in awful ways.
(07:57):
And so that's a little aboutsextortion and financial
sextortion, about some of thetrends we're seeing.
Of course, all of thisinformation is available on our
website as well.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
This is so helpful because we had a dad on our
podcast that came on a couplemonths after he lost his child,
his son Walker, and it wasfinancial sextortion and it was,
you know, we had seen, like youguys, sextortion cases before
financial sextortion.
I think what made it so uniquewas from the first DM to losing
(08:31):
Walker.
It was just a few hours Rightand there was not enough time
for a young child to logicallythink through what was happening
, because it was so emotional,because it was so emotional.
So it's almost like thepredators have gotten very smart
in targeting the emotions ofthese young kids to.
I mean, they've gotten moresavvy.
(08:52):
I hate to say it, but theonline predators know how to
really target our kids within afew hours and I think that's why
it's so important in our homesto define and identify what
sextortion is, so that if itdoes happen, maybe they can in
their mind identify oh, I andempowering a child with that
(09:14):
knowledge.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
So if and when it does happen to them, they know
this is what this is.
This is what's happening.
I'm not alone.
I know where to go for help.
(09:36):
That's so key.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Well, and I think that's where you guys come in,
you're doing such great work inthis space.
So so say we have a kid.
They are, you know, a victim ofsextortion.
And for this instance, let'salso say they willingly shared,
they were manipulated intoactually sharing their own nude
photo, or they were videoed orwhatever.
Because sometimes I think thosekids think, well, I did it, I
(10:03):
can't tell anybody because I'mgoing to get in trouble.
You know, walk us through.
Our son comes to us and saysI've done this.
Oh my gosh.
You know, my first thing iswhat a win that your kid is
confiding in you.
First of all, we don't want tooverlook that.
I mean, that's, that's a hugewin, that they're trusting you
enough.
But then what we want to do isequip parents, through this show
(10:25):
, to have the steps in place tohelp that kid.
So tell us what you would do ifI called you, belinda, tonight
and I said this has happened tomy son.
What do I do?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
The first step.
Moms, dads, trusted adults,take a deep breath.
I'm a mama bear.
My first instinct is who hurtmy baby and what do I need to do
to make this right?
We want to make sure that weare able to check our own
emotions because I'd like toshare with your audience that
how we react to that initialright.
(10:58):
We're doing all the rightthings.
We're watching videos together,we're having regular check-ins,
we're having safety discussionsand we're encouraging our
children to come to us whensomething happens, so when they
actually take.
We're watching videos together,we're having regular check-ins,
we're having safety discussionsand we're encouraging our
children to come to us whensomething happens, so when they
actually take us up on it.
We have to keep calm andremember that we're setting the
stage for future instances,whether with regard to online or
(11:19):
offline life situations.
We're establishing that line oftrust with our child situations
.
We're establishing that line oftrust with our child.
So take that deep breath andsome practical steps.
First and foremost, tell yourchild it's not their fault.
It is not their fault.
What the perpetrator has doneis commit a crime.
Especially if they've committeda crime, they're the ones in
(11:40):
the wrong, not the child, andthat we're here to help and we
know what to do.
I think oftentimes childrenbecome extremely frantic
obviously adults too in similarsituations, because you've been
told, the internet's forever.
Once you do something like this, you can't take it back, and so
on.
What we can offer to children,after we've taken that deep
(12:02):
breath, told them it's not theirfault, we can offer them hope,
and hope it looks like practicalsteps such as okay, let's first
block the perpetrator, butwe're not going to delete the
conversations.
We're not going to necessarilydelete the app.
We need to save thatinformation because that
information could help us toresolve the issue If it rises to
(12:24):
the level of law enforcementintervention and so on.
We need some of thatinformation to refer back to.
So the instinct might be todelete everything, but it is
helpful to have that informationon hand.
So we're going to remain calm.
We're going to tell ourchildren it's not their fault.
We're going to block theperpetrator.
We're going to save anyinformation that may help to
(12:45):
resolve a potential case, andwhat we're going to tell our
children it's not their fault.
We're going to block theperpetrator.
We're going to save anyinformation that may help to
resolve a potential case andwhat we're going to do next is
report the instance to theactual app.
So there are a variety of apps.
We could sit here for fivehours and name all the apps that
children are engaged and activeon and we still wouldn't be
done.
So I'll just say report theinstance to the actual app.
(13:06):
And I encourage everyone toalso report to the National
Center, to our cyber tip line,or you can call 1-800-LOST.
Of course you want to report tolaw enforcement.
Obviously NCMEC is not aninvestigative agency.
What we can add to the situationwe offer free mental health
(13:27):
supports.
We have a network of mentalhealth providers throughout the
country that specialize in thesetypes of cases.
More often than not, they canprovide these services at no to
very low cost to anyone who isinterested.
We can because, as I mentionedbefore, 36 million reports
equates to a ton of information.
So we can cross-referenceagainst so many other reports.
(13:50):
There may be a potentiallinkage to other instances where
this same perpetrator may bedoing the same thing, quite
frankly, to other childrenthroughout the world, and we can
perhaps make some linkagesbecause one brave child, one
brave family, knew what to do.
Another tool that's available onour website, again completely
free.
All of our resources are freeis Take it Down.
(14:10):
So you can search for Take itDown on your favorite search
engine.
You can also simply visit ourwebsite.
But Take it Down representsseveral partnerships that we
have with electronic serviceproviders, and so, while we will
not collect your imageswhatsoever, but every image
contains a hash value which isthe equivalent of a fingerprint.
(14:32):
So we collect the hash valuesassociated with the photos, we
share those with participatingelectronic service providers and
every time that that photo hitsthe internet, every time that
hash value, I should say, hitsthe internet, it's going to get
removed.
Isn't that amazing?
This is a tool that'srelatively new.
It's a game changer forsurvivors, it builds confidence
(14:54):
and it instills hope.
We can also, if you file theCyber Tip Line report, we can
also again flag any contentassociated that law enforcement
shares with us.
We can also share those hashvalues with our electronic
service providers with the goalof removing them from the
Internet.
Take a Down is again such animportant and popular resource
(15:18):
because it offers hope tochildren and families and
survivors, and I'd like to add acaveat there too.
To children and families andsurvivors, and I'd like to add a
caveat there too If you're anadult survivor whose images were
shared when you were a child.
The images were taken and orshared while you were a child.
You can still share those hashvalues with us and we will also
treat those exactly the same.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Okay, this is amazing technology and a new tool.
Basically, it's kind of new onthe scene right, and I'm sure
it's going to continue to evolveand even get better as as
technology goes on.
Okay, so I have a couplequestions about it.
How do you get that hashtaglike fingerprint, quote, unquote
fingerprint of the picture?
How do you?
(15:58):
How do you get that Like is itsomething that you teach us how
to go in and get on the phone,or just a basic?
I'm just curious From apractical standpoint, you will.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
You actually need the device that the photos are on
and, again, you're not sharingthe photos with us.
You will share the hash valueand we actually have a how to
video on our website as well.
That provides you with stepsand you and we have a handout as
well that we can share withyour listeners.
That also provides step-by-stepinstructions as well.
(16:30):
But essentially you will needthe device where the videos and
or images are located and thenyou'll share.
Again, we will not collect orextract images or videos.
We'll simply collect the hashvalue and once those hash values
are collected, we'll sharethose with our internet service
provider partners.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
There's a how to on your website, but you do need
the device of where the image isAbsolutely yes.
So and you and I want toreiterate, you said a couple
places to report, we got toreport.
So if this happens on Instagram, you're going to report on
Instagram.
So whatever app that it happenson, we're reporting.
Then you recommend that we filea cyber tip on your website.
(17:12):
That's a cyber tip report thatyou can make and when, when you
do that, that's not reporting tolaw enforcement, that's
reporting to you guys for yourdata.
You will not be sharing images.
I want to reiterate that youwill not be sharing any nude
photos or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Absolutely not.
As a matter of fact, we cannotaccept images or videos from the
public, so hence the importanceof reporting to law enforcement
.
When internet service providersor folks share CyberTipline
reports with us, again we addvalue to those reports.
We have some of the mostamazing analysts in the world.
We check to see again ifthere's any existing information
(17:58):
that we can cross-referencethis new report with.
Is a child in imminent danger?
So we add all that information.
We're often, when there'sminimal information, we're able
to perhaps help to find the IPaddress and where is this tip
potentially located, where didthis potential incident happen?
And then we're able to packagethat information and share with
law enforcement.
So there's just so manybenefits to reporting any
(18:20):
instance of child exploitationto the cyber tip line because it
triggers this series of stepswith the goal of engaging law
enforcement with all theinformation we can potentially
share and with providingsupports and services to
children and families.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Well, and how amazing that you're able to also track
this data and see where we'reseeing upticks, because that's
what we need prevention andawareness on how they're
targeting our children and thenwe can educate parents on the
data that you're collecting.
We also need to make sure thatwe report to local law
enforcement, and then oftentimes, you guys are working together
(18:56):
to figure out and catch theperpetrator.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
So yes, mandy, that's correct, we work very closely
with law enforcement.
Again, whether we receivereports from electronic service
providers, individuals and I'dlike to add, children are
capable.
We've certainly received cybertip line reports filed by
children themselves who, becauseof everyone, after they listen
to today's podcast, they'regoing to go home and talk to
(19:20):
their children, they're going toempower their children with
information, and so manychildren themselves have
reported and said you know, Ithink my best friend's being
sextorted or someone is cyberbullying me online or so on and
so forth.
So children are also capable.
I just wanted to make sure Isaid that as well.
Filing that cyber tip linereport again, access to free
(19:41):
resources and sharing thatinformation can be a game
changer in finding a perpetrator, bringing that perpetrator to
justice and seeking resourcesfor the survivors so that they
can recognize that there's hopein a community of folks who are
supporting, who are supportiveand care about their safety.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
You said something to Belinda that I thought was
really important because, as Iwork with families and you know,
sometimes I'm we're the firstcall oh my gosh, this has
happened.
There's hesitation to report tolaw enforcement because they're
scared their kid is going toget in trouble.
The kid is, you know, emotionaland afraid and wants to act
(20:23):
like it didn't happen, just makeit all go away, kind of thing.
And I want to talk about theimportance of reporting because,
like you said earlier,sometimes it takes one brave
child to report something and itmay take down a whole
exploitation ring over herebecause it connects a dot or
(20:44):
connect something to thatperpetrator.
Can we just like hone in onthat and the importance of of
making sure we contact the rightpeople.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
I think and I wear my mom hat always but I think
there's also a sense of reliefwhen you're filing that report,
that you know you're not aloneand that there's an entire
agency, an entire organizationlike NCMEC, that cares and knows
what you're talking about.
We respect what you'reexperiencing the good, the bad
(21:16):
and the ugly, your feelings Allof that we understand.
We're a safe place to sharethis information and to seek
support Based on some of thereports that we see.
Again, I'd be remiss if Ididn't share.
Oftentimes the perpetrator issomeone the child knows and
oftentimes it is someone thatthey met online someone the
(21:38):
child knows, and oftentimes itis someone that they met online.
And again, there are manyinstances where a child thought
they were talking to someonetheir own age, a potential love
interest.
They thought it was their,their best friend, and because
they were brave enough to tofile a cyber tip line report,
we're able to.
Oh no, this is the sameperpetrator who has done the
same thing to several otherchildren across several
(22:00):
different states or within thesame community, or so on.
So oftentimes the perpetratormay be located in a different
state and this may require abroader response and so filing
that cyber tip line report, inaddition to those services and
supports, can also be thedifference in ensuring that all
of the appropriate lawenforcement entities with
(22:22):
jurisdiction have the sameinformation so that they can
find perpetrators who arevictimizing children across the
country.
It's just so vital to ensurethat folks understand that NCMEC
is here to provide thosesupports and that guidance.
And I welcome folks to consideras well if you're on the fence
or not entirely sure or you'restruggling in that moment to
(22:43):
read through the steps.
I know we can all relate whenyou're stressed, you're scared
or something super traumatic hashappened.
It's hard to turn off theemotional part of us and turn on
the practical, logical sidethat knows how to read and type
and input things.
Call us, call 1-800-THE-LOST.
We can walk you through thatCyber Tip Line report.
We can walk you through thesteps and what to expect.
(23:04):
We're a phone call away.
We're a Cyber Tip Line reportaway, but again, you're going to
access those resources andservices and your information
could potentially align or besimilar to information we've
received from other reportersabout the same perpetrator, and
so the benefits are huge inreporting to the Cyber Tip Line
(23:27):
and making a difference inbringing justice to perpetrators
and providing support tochildren.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Helping connect the dots to make sure the bad guys
are caught, like that's reallywhat we got to do here.
So it's about speaking up.
I think another you know justreally important conversation to
have with your kids if theyhave fallen victim to this.
You know, to kind of empowerthem.
A lot of the kids just want itto go away, and I think one of
(23:52):
the things that I've learned inthis is being able to look at a
kid and say and I think one ofthe things that I've learned in
this is being able to look at akid and say, but this gives you
closure and you're helpingsomebody else not be a victim,
you know.
So those two things, let's walkhand in hand and take this step
together, because if you, if youdon't report and you just act
like it doesn't happen, likewhere where's that going to go
with that?
(24:12):
You know, I feel like there'shealing in reporting, there's an
ending to it.
There's like, okay, I'm goingto do this kind of thing,
speaking it out loud, speakingit out loud, bringing it into
the light.
Whatever you want to say,there's this, there's this
healing that can happen withthat, instead of just well, I'm
going to sweep this under therug and just act like it didn't
(24:33):
happen.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
But you know, I will add in and if that does happen,
um, in 10 years from now, thatchild, uh, survivor is now an
adult, and this happened whenthey were a child and they need
someone to talk to and they'reseeking support.
Call us, we're able to help.
Um, you know we're.
We're here until one of ourfavorite things to say we're
here until you tell us to goaway.
There is no charge for ourresources and our services.
(24:55):
We certainly have folks whocontinue to reach out.
You know, to your point.
You may think you're you'redoing OK, and then there may be
an event that has triggered someof that trauma and you need
someone to talk to.
You're not exactly sure whereto turn.
Give us a call.
We know exactly what to say,how to say it, where to send you
(25:17):
with regard to these types ofvictimizations.
We don't know the answer.
I'm sure we know whom to askand I'd like to make that point
too.
You don't have to have an opencase with the National Center to
access resources either.
So again, this could have beensomething that happened when you
were 12.
(25:37):
Now you're 25.
And you want to talk to someoneabout it?
Give us a call and we cancertainly try to connect you
with some resources.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
I love that.
I'm so glad you added that,belinda.
So if people want to know aboutthe take it down or about, like
the steps that we talked abouttoday, is there a resource on
your website that would kind ofguide them through the
information you provided today?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yes, so we one that I think will resonate with your
audience.
Today we have a tip sheetsextortion what parents should
know.
It is available on our website.
It's a downloadable PDF thatdefines sextortion for you.
It also provides you with thesteps I discussed today.
And another step that's listedon that tip sheet that I'd like
(26:26):
to add to this conversation aswell is some prevention.
We certainly hope this neverhappens, but we know
statistically there's a highlikelihood that it may.
Again, a mom myself working inthis space certainly put all of
the safety parameters and all ofthe things that I know to do to
try to keep my child safe, butI'm not with her 24 hours a day.
(26:47):
She goes to school, she hasfriends, she's.
She does not have a cell phone,but her friends do, and you
know so there's always going tobe opportunity for a child to be
exposed to content or justsituations we wish we could
protect them from.
So prevention is what we needto do, and what that looks like
is having open and honestconversations.
What I like to say, what myrule, is if you think your child
(27:10):
is old enough to have access toa device, they're old enough
for a conversation, and so, inaddition to this extortion
handout, I'd like to also sharethat we offer a huge variety of
resources, including ourNetSmarts content, which is
online safety resources,prevention resources, including
presentations, additional tipsheets and videos for kids in
(27:31):
grades K through 12.
You know, I challenge you tothink of the last time you went
to the grocery store or arestaurant and didn't see a
kiddo, a young kiddo, on atablet or maybe on someone's
phone, and so I think again, ifthey're old enough to have
access to the internet and to beable to utilize a device that
you've purchased for them, thenthey're absolutely old enough to
(27:52):
start having theseage-appropriate conversations,
and NetSmart certainly helps inthat regard.
Into the Cloud is a web-basedanimated series for kids 10 and
under, and each episode comeswith a discussion guide.
We know again I am not saying,hey, you need to go out today
and get a master's degree in allof the things digital we do a
(28:13):
lot of the heavy lifting for youdiscussion guides, talking
questions to ask your kiddo, andso those animated videos
include a discussion guide inevery episode touches on some of
the issues we've talked abouttoday, but in a way that's fun
and approachable for children.
Checking out these resources onnickmickorg, or simply typing
in NetSmartz into your favoritesearch engine will take you
(28:35):
there, and most of our resourcesare available in English and
Spanish.
And again, the key takeaway isearly and often.
Have those conversations earlyand often and create boundaries
as well.
Discuss your family's valuessurrounding healthy
relationships and expectations.
(28:55):
All of this falls under thecategory of empowering our
kiddos, explaining whatboundaries look like, making it
a comfortable topic for yourchild, and it may catch you off
guard, and I love that.
I love to hear when parents saywell, we did what you suggested
and now they're asking me allkinds of crazy questions.
I love it.
(29:15):
That's what we want.
We want our kids to come to uswith the crazy questions and to
feel comfortable and confidentin having those conversations
with us.
We also work with survivors aswell, and one of the common
things that we often hear is I,you know I, and not even just
from families of survivors, butyou know law enforcement,
educators, parents.
I wish I'd known what this was.
(29:37):
I would have talked to my kidabout it and I would have said
hey, if this happens, it's okay,come talk to me.
So when we establish theseconversations using these tools,
our kids recognize, as wementioned, kind of making a
callback to how we started ourconversation.
They're able to recognize oh,that's that thing.
Mom and dad said, uh-oh, I needsome guidance, I need some help
and I know I'm not going to getin trouble because mom and dad
(30:06):
said that I wouldn't be introuble.
And then that's where our owntraining comes into place.
We're going to take that deepbreath.
We're going to respond withlove, empathy and concern, even
though we're shaking on theinside and want to find who hurt
our baby.
We're going to take that deepbreath and we're going to go
through the logical steps.
It's really is a circle.
It's a circle of, or acontinuum, I should say, of,
trust, where we're establishingthose conversations.
We're going back to thoseconversations and resources
(30:28):
often, and it can look as simpleas Friday night is game night.
You're going to show me whatyour favorite game is.
I have no idea how to play this, but you're going to teach me
who are these folks you'retalking to.
Did we establish boundaries orguidelines about who you can
talk to?
Does this game have a featurewhere we can turn off that chat,
all of those kinds of things,and having conversations with
(30:49):
your child about expectationsaround those apps and access as
well.
You're only allowed to talk andplay with these folks.
If someone asks to take you toa third party chatting site,
that's.
That's not acceptable in thishome.
Or or here's what to do If youdo participate in something gets
out of control.
We have to establish clearexpectations, but also give our
(31:11):
children grace so that theyunderstand that, okay, we talked
about it, but well, you didn'tmake the decision I hoped you
would have in.
Something that happened, that'sokay.
You're still not in trouble.
I'm here to help you.
I think that's, and I know I'mrambling, but, as you can see,
I'm really passionate about this.
I think it's important for usto also simply have empathy and
(31:32):
grace with our children.
They're going to do and saythings that we wish that they
hadn't, but we need to continueto be their safe landing spot.
We need to be that source ofcomfort for them, and part of
that is empowering ourselves aswell, and your podcast is doing
such a lovely job of that bydefining these issues so that we
know how to talk about itbefore they perhaps seek
(31:54):
inaccurate information orinformation that makes them feel
that they can't come to us.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
You did a fantastic job.
All of it, yes, yes, all of it,yes, yes, all of it.
You said boundaries andexpectations a couple of times
and I think those are just key.
You know they are.
Key is is clearly communicatingthe boundaries and the
expectations.
You know, I remember with myown kids they're older now, but
(32:19):
you know, the first point waswhen they were gaming.
You can't talk with a strangeror somebody you don't know in
real life.
But then, as they got older andwe talked about sextortion and
online predators and I saw themhandle certain situations that
would pop up.
Then they could earn playing.
Okay, you can play withstrangers that you don't know in
real life, but you I love whatyou said but you can't go
(32:40):
outside of this app and thentalk or do this.
So you're setting up thoseparameters and they earn it in
steps, as they're ready for itand as they prove to you that
they can identify tricky peopleand that a red flag is going to
go off in their brain andthey're going to come tell you,
and then you're working togetheras a team to keep them safe,
and so I think that's so good.
(33:01):
And I think, on the boundariespoint too, I kept.
I kept thinking about somepictures that will get texted
and DM desk sometimes, of kidsthat are going into the bathroom
and they've got their iPad,like setting outside as they're
in the bathroom, because they'velearned that boundary of when
I'm undressing, I'm not going tohave a screen near me.
I think that's super importantfor us as parents to because
(33:24):
they are, porn is so readilyavailable and they are
desensitized to hearing aboutnude photos.
I mean, that's just like normallanguage in their, in their
culture, unfortunately and sothe more we can create those
boundaries around okay, nakedequals, no screens, kind of
thing.
You know there's, there's likea boundary in their mind about
it.
I think the better that theywill be, unless, um, the
(33:48):
predators are then less able tomanipulate them into sending a
nude or graphic image becausewe've instilled this like
boundary line in their mind.
And I think those boundariesand expectations when you were
saying that I was just like yes,yes, yes.
And I think those boundariesand expectations when you were
saying that I was just like yes,yes, yes and yes, because we
don't think to do it, because wedidn't grow up this way.
(34:08):
We didn't.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
We sure didn't, and this technology certainly wasn't
.
My daughter loves to telleveryone that her mom was born
in the 1900s and even thoughit's true, it doesn't make it
any less hurtful.
But we aren't growing up withthe same kinds of safety issues
that our babies are.
So, giving them grace andempathy, understanding, you know
(34:30):
this opportunity, you know I'min Austin, you know I'm hours
from you.
We're able to communicate inreal time technology can be such
a wonderful blessing.
To communicate in real timeTechnology can be such a
wonderful blessing, um, and so,embracing the good and preparing
our children for what can gowrong, um, and coupling those
boundaries and expectations with.
But even if, even if it didn'twork out and you made a choice
(34:52):
that maybe you regret, you canstill come to me.
You can still come to me.
I'm not going to be angry.
We're going to revisit ourconversation.
We're going to get you help.
My love, my empathy for you donot change Um, we're.
We're simply their littleguides or their little Yodas,
and in this life, uh and.
But having that grace andempathy is one thing that you
(35:13):
know as, again, as a parent andsomeone working in this space,
that I can't um over overstateenough, um, having all of the
steps down pat, having thedefinitions down pat, having
those conversations.
But again, in that moment whenour child takes us up on
everything we've tried to getthem to do, we've got to make
sure we maintain our cool andthat we lead with that empathy
(35:34):
and grace.
And how we respond to thatscenario.
As I tell my kid, life getsharder and harder.
So just tell me, was it youthat dropped the cereal or not?
You're not in trouble.
If it was you, we need to beable to trust each other and you
need to trust that.
I'm okay with that.
I will point you to the broomand remind you to be more
careful and we'll move on.
So it's a silly example, butone that I think encapsulates
(35:58):
how important it is to have leadwith that empathy and grace so
we can establish and maintainthat trust, that circle of trust
, with our kids.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
No, I think it's a perfect example because,
honestly, if you haven't handledthe cereal well, they're not
going to come to you on thisextortion stuff, right?
So, like it's the little thingsthat they're testing us, and,
like you said, when we respondwith that grace and empathy
because good kids make mistakeswe all know that Everybody makes
mistakes and I love theemphasis that you're putting on
(36:27):
this grace and empathy, becauseif we can do that in the daily
you spilled the milk, youspilled the cereal, you know
whatever.
You said a cuss word in a groupchat, whatever it is a word,
you know a cuss word in a groupchat and whatever it is when
we're responding to those littlethings, we're practicing almost
for the big crisis moments thatare going to happen in their
life.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Yes, you are 100% correct.
These topics are difficult,they're difficult to to read,
they're difficult to imaginehappening to your own child.
But that's what I think thebeauty of your podcast is too,
and your efforts is to make surethat these topics and these,
these trends are broken down inways that everyone can
(37:11):
understand and I hope that weare creating a ripple effect
where they'll, in turn, turn totheir, their families, because
in my own family, my daughter isso loved you know, of course,
right, and so I want to makesure her uncles and her aunts
and her grandparents and, youknow, all of her trusted adults,
understand what these issueslook like and establishing that
(37:32):
community of trust.
So maybe she is too scared totell mom, but I'm going to tell
my aunt so-and-so, and auntso-and-so is fully aware,
because mom listened to thispodcast and she knows and she
shared that info.
So, creating a community oftrusted adults and on that note,
I you know, I would like toalso share I hadn't mentioned it
earlier we also offer KidSmarts, which is an overall safety
(37:56):
curriculum for kids 10 and underthat talks about trusted adults
, how to identify them and,again, sometimes we have to talk
about uncomfortable things sothat we can get to a place of
empowerment.
But I'll reiterate thatoftentimes, statistically again,
you know 66%, you know theperpetrator is someone in a
(38:18):
position of trust with the childand so having those trusted
adults, safe, adultconversations with kids is so
important, expanding thatcommunity of trust and safety
for children and so our you candownload games and tip sheets
and more, all again with thegoal of early and often
(38:46):
conversations.
We get asked often what appsshould my kids avoid?
How old before I buy my kid aphone?
And we don't have hard answersfor that.
What I can say is the bestdefense for any of these issues
is communication.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
And all of these stuff NetSmart, KidSmart, the
Take it Down, it's all on yourwebsite, right, and it's all
free.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
All free.
Ncmecorg all of it is free, andwe also for the trusted adults
who are with us today.
Ncmec Connect is our freelearning management platform and
there's a variety.
You can set up or sign up foran account and there are a
variety of free and engaging andinteractive lessons or videos
(39:26):
that you can learn about avariety of topics, from online
safety to the history of NCMEC.
If you're interested in hearingmore about some of the ways
that we support missing andexploited children to
trafficking and beyond and thereare always new content being
developed and again all free.
So if you want information tobetter learn about the issues or
(39:48):
how to talk to your children,downloadable activities, tip
sheets all available on ourwebsite and all free.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Wonderful, Wonderful.
Belinda, you are a wealth ofinformation.
I love how we focus on theprevention and the relationship,
but we also have steps to takeif our kids fall victim to
sextortion and we have a plan inplace.
You guys have come up with thesteps and the take it down and
all of the stuff that helpsfamilies have a like a black and
(40:19):
white step process to helptheir kid in this crisis.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Yes, and in that moment I just want everyone to
know my heart is with you.
Remember, belinda said to takea deep breath, and it.
And if you, in that moment, areoverwhelmed, type in
nickmickorg and your phone, yourlaptop, your device, click on
the resources and it'll all comeback to you.
Call.
(40:43):
If you can't remember anythingelse, you can call
1-800-THE-LOST and we can helpwalk you through the process and
link you to resources that wayas well.
So take that deep breath andremember we're here to support
you because, as you do, webelieve that every child
deserves a safe childhood.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Awesome.
Thank you so much, Belinda.
I'm so appreciative of the workthat you do and countless
others in your organization.
Thank you for the resources youhave for us.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (41:11):
Next Talk is a 501c3 nonprofit keeping kids safe
online.
To support our work, make adonation at nexttalkorg.
Next Talk resources are notintended to replace the advice
of a trained healthcare or legalprofessional, or to diagnose,
treat or otherwise render expertadvice regarding any type of
medical, psychological, legal,financial or other problem.
You are advised to consult aqualified expert for your
(41:31):
personal treatment plan.
Welcome to the Next Talk podcast.
We are a nonprofit passionateabout keeping kids safe online.
We're learning together how tonavigate tech, culture and faith
with our kids.
I have such a special guest onthe Next Talk podcast today.
This is Belinda Swan from theNational Center for Missing and
(00:23):
Exploited Children.
They do amazing work.
Thanks for being here, belinda.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
My pleasure.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Tell us a little bit about your organization and a
little bit about yourself.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
All right.
Well, the National Center forMissing and Exploited Children,
or NCMEC, has been around for 40years.
We've just celebrated our 40thanniversary last year.
Many folks may make theconnection between the National
Center and two of our morefamous founders because of their
amazing work in this space Johnand Revae Walsh.
As many folks may remember,they too are survivors.
(01:01):
Their son, Adam Walsh, wasabducted and later found
deceased.
He was abducted from a shoppingcenter in Florida and it was
the Walshes and several otherjust absolutely brave and
amazing families survivorsthemselves who'd experienced the
loss of a child who cametogether and recognized at that
(01:24):
time that it was easier toreport and track a missing car
than a missing child.
And so if you're a human of acertain age like myself, you may
remember a lot of our campaignsthroughout the years to get the
word out about missing childrenby our posters and so on.
But what a lot of folks don'tknow is that we absolutely do a
ton of other work in the spaceof child exploitation and in
(01:46):
prevention and outreach, whichis why I'm here today.
So our Missing Children Divisionobviously helps to support
families of missing children.
We work closely with lawenforcement.
We are the folks behind a lotof the missing child posters.
We collect tips, share thatinformation with law enforcement
.
We provide case management andsupport in that regard to law
(02:07):
enforcement as well, and ourchild exploitation division,
which I will be leaning onheavily today, with a lot of
their amazing work via our CyberTip Line and 1-800-THE-LOST,
which we'll talk about, we'reable to collect and review and
reports to help us understandthe child safety issues that are
most affecting kids today andbecause of that information I'm
(02:30):
able to speak about those trendsin real time.
Our amazing team is able todevelop prevention resources
that folks can utilize today.
So we do a lot of work andwe'll get into some of those
specifics, I'm sure, but ingeneral, we're here because we
believe every child deserves asafe childhood, just as I know
that you do and all of yourlisteners.
(02:52):
So again, just an honor to behere.
I am currently in Austin, Texas.
I'm born and raised, or wasborn and raised, in Alice, Texas
.
I've been in Austin for 25years and I've been with NCMEC
for five years now.
Okay.
And you're a parent yourself,correct?
I am a parent of a wonderfulnine-year-old who keeps me on my
toes, and several times I havesaid to my parents I'm sorry, I
(03:19):
understand and I get it now.
So, yes, a parent's first andalways, and I've worked in this
space for many years, and sothis opportunity is just
fantastic to be able to talk toyou and your listeners.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Well, I think that makes you an excellent guest
because you know behind thescenes, at home what needs to
happen to build thatrelationship.
But you also are very educatedon the real dangers our kids
face, and I think thatcombination is what we want to
take into every home.
You know, not panic, not fear,but real education, real
awareness and then that abilityto build that relationship with
(03:52):
their kid.
But we have covered a lot ofstuff on sextortion.
We had a dad on who lost hisson to this.
We have done a lot of educationand awareness around what
sextortion is and the kind ofthe schemes that online
predators often use to targetkids online.
So we've done a lot of that.
(04:13):
What we have not done that Ithink that you guys are doing
really well is what to do ifyour kid has been a victim of
sextortion.
First of all, I want you todefine it for our guest again,
just to so we're all on the samepage, and then I want you to
walk us through, because I getthese messages like this has
happened.
(04:33):
What do I do?
Next steps, and I literallyalways send them to your website
.
So, I'm like I gotta have thisgirl on.
So we have an actual podcastalso that they can listen to.
So let's define it first andthen move into the steps.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So sextortion is a type of online enticement or
child exploitation where theperpetrator's goal is generally
to obtain nude imagery or videosor other similar content of a
child, to either blackmail orsextort the child into creating
additional content.
(05:08):
Sometimes the goal of theperpetrator is actual sexual
contact with the child, but whatwe've seen more recently is a
huge uptick in financialsextortion, and I'd love to
define that as well for yourlisteners, and so we can hone in
on that as well.
So over the course of the lastseveral years I'll share this
(05:30):
again since we, since theNational Center maintains
1-800-THE-LOST and the Cyber TipLine, we collect reports
throughout the year.
The Cyber Tip Line is whereanyone can file a cyber, a
cyber-tripline report about anytype of exploitation of a child.
In 2023, our 2024 data shouldbe available and on our website
(05:51):
in the weeks to come, but in2023, we received about 36
million reports.
As I mentioned before, we'reable to take a deep dive, look
at that data and and talk to youabout what we're seeing, and
one of the trends we continue tosee is that uptick in financial
sextortion.
So we know what sextortion isfinancial sextortion, which is
(06:11):
just a little different but, asthe name suggests is motivated
by money.
So what we know, based onreports to the National Center
in 2023, we received about27,000 reports of financial
sextortion and of those reports,about 90% of the child victims
were male between the ages of 14and 17.
(06:32):
So in other types of sextortion,where the goal may have been
sexual content or to blackmailthe child and producing
additional images or videos,with financial sextortion, the
perpetrator, once they've gainedthe child's trust, the child
may think that this personthey're talking to may have
stolen photos from some otherplace and is presenting
(06:52):
themselves as a potential loveinterest or friend, an
age-appropriate friend even.
And once the perpetrator gainsthe child's trust and gets them
to put their or take their guarddown or introduces content to
them and makes it okay for thefor the child to share their own
images, they flip the script onthem and they immediately start
(07:14):
demanding money.
And consider our own selves at14.
I certainly had no money andwould have been terrified to
tell my mom and dad what I haddone and what situation I was in
, so I'd be remiss if I didn'tshare that many cases of
financial sextortion haveresulted in death by suicide.
(07:36):
So when we're talking aboutsextortion, we're talking about
financial sextortion as well.
I think what we're talkingabout is vulnerable and scared
children who are simplyexploring their own questions
about sex, about relationships,and oftentimes perpetrators
realize, recognize thosevulnerabilities and take
advantage of them in awful ways.
(07:57):
And so that's a little aboutsextortion and financial
sextortion, about some of thetrends we're seeing.
Of course, all of thisinformation is available on our
website as well.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
This is so helpful because we had a dad on our
podcast that came on a couplemonths after he lost his child,
his son Walker, and it wasfinancial sextortion and it was,
you know, we had seen, like youguys, sextortion cases before
financial sextortion.
I think what made it so uniquewas from the first DM to losing
(08:31):
Walker.
It was just a few hours Rightand there was not enough time
for a young child to logicallythink through what was happening
, because it was so emotional,because it was so emotional.
So it's almost like thepredators have gotten very smart
in targeting the emotions ofthese young kids to.
I mean, they've gotten moresavvy.
(08:52):
I hate to say it, but theonline predators know how to
really target our kids within afew hours and I think that's why
it's so important in our homesto define and identify what
sextortion is, so that if itdoes happen, maybe they can in
their mind identify oh, I andempowering a child with that
(09:14):
knowledge.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
So if and when it does happen to them, they know
this is what this is.
This is what's happening.
I'm not alone.
I know where to go for help.
(09:36):
That's so key.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Well, and I think that's where you guys come in,
you're doing such great work inthis space.
So so say we have a kid.
They are, you know, a victim ofsextortion.
And for this instance, let'salso say they willingly shared,
they were manipulated intoactually sharing their own nude
photo, or they were videoed orwhatever.
Because sometimes I think thosekids think, well, I did it, I
(10:03):
can't tell anybody because I'mgoing to get in trouble.
You know, walk us through.
Our son comes to us and saysI've done this.
Oh my gosh.
You know, my first thing iswhat a win that your kid is
confiding in you.
First of all, we don't want tooverlook that.
I mean, that's, that's a hugewin, that they're trusting you
enough.
But then what we want to do isequip parents, through this show
(10:25):
, to have the steps in place tohelp that kid.
So tell us what you would do ifI called you, belinda, tonight
and I said this has happened tomy son.
What do I do?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
The first step.
Moms, dads, trusted adults,take a deep breath.
I'm a mama bear.
My first instinct is who hurtmy baby and what do I need to do
to make this right?
We want to make sure that weare able to check our own
emotions because I'd like toshare with your audience that
how we react to that initialright.
(10:58):
We're doing all the rightthings.
We're watching videos together,we're having regular check-ins,
we're having safety discussionsand we're encouraging our
children to come to us whensomething happens, so when they
actually take.
We're watching videos together,we're having regular check-ins,
we're having safety discussionsand we're encouraging our
children to come to us whensomething happens, so when they
actually take us up on it.
We have to keep calm andremember that we're setting the
stage for future instances,whether with regard to online or
(11:19):
offline life situations.
We're establishing that line oftrust with our child situations
.
We're establishing that line oftrust with our child.
So take that deep breath andsome practical steps.
First and foremost, tell yourchild it's not their fault.
It is not their fault.
What the perpetrator has doneis commit a crime.
Especially if they've committeda crime, they're the ones in
(11:40):
the wrong, not the child, andthat we're here to help and we
know what to do.
I think oftentimes childrenbecome extremely frantic
obviously adults too in similarsituations, because you've been
told, the internet's forever.
Once you do something like this, you can't take it back, and so
on.
What we can offer to children,after we've taken that deep
(12:02):
breath, told them it's not theirfault, we can offer them hope,
and hope it looks like practicalsteps such as okay, let's first
block the perpetrator, butwe're not going to delete the
conversations.
We're not going to necessarilydelete the app.
We need to save thatinformation because that
information could help us toresolve the issue If it rises to
(12:24):
the level of law enforcementintervention and so on.
We need some of thatinformation to refer back to.
So the instinct might be todelete everything, but it is
helpful to have that informationon hand.
So we're going to remain calm.
We're going to tell ourchildren it's not their fault.
We're going to block theperpetrator.
We're going to save anyinformation that may help to
(12:45):
resolve a potential case, andwhat we're going to tell our
children it's not their fault.
We're going to block theperpetrator.
We're going to save anyinformation that may help to
resolve a potential case andwhat we're going to do next is
report the instance to theactual app.
So there are a variety of apps.
We could sit here for fivehours and name all the apps that
children are engaged and activeon and we still wouldn't be
done.
So I'll just say report theinstance to the actual app.
(13:06):
And I encourage everyone toalso report to the National
Center, to our cyber tip line,or you can call 1-800-LOST.
Of course you want to report tolaw enforcement.
Obviously NCMEC is not aninvestigative agency.
What we can add to the situationwe offer free mental health
(13:27):
supports.
We have a network of mentalhealth providers throughout the
country that specialize in thesetypes of cases.
More often than not, they canprovide these services at no to
very low cost to anyone who isinterested.
We can because, as I mentionedbefore, 36 million reports
equates to a ton of information.
So we can cross-referenceagainst so many other reports.
(13:50):
There may be a potentiallinkage to other instances where
this same perpetrator may bedoing the same thing, quite
frankly, to other childrenthroughout the world, and we can
perhaps make some linkagesbecause one brave child, one
brave family, knew what to do.
Another tool that's available onour website, again completely
free.
All of our resources are freeis Take it Down.
(14:10):
So you can search for Take itDown on your favorite search
engine.
You can also simply visit ourwebsite.
But Take it Down representsseveral partnerships that we
have with electronic serviceproviders, and so, while we will
not collect your imageswhatsoever, but every image
contains a hash value which isthe equivalent of a fingerprint.
(14:32):
So we collect the hash valuesassociated with the photos, we
share those with participatingelectronic service providers and
every time that that photo hitsthe internet, every time that
hash value, I should say, hitsthe internet, it's going to get
removed.
Isn't that amazing?
This is a tool that'srelatively new.
It's a game changer forsurvivors, it builds confidence
(14:54):
and it instills hope.
We can also, if you file theCyber Tip Line report, we can
also again flag any contentassociated that law enforcement
shares with us.
We can also share those hashvalues with our electronic
service providers with the goalof removing them from the
Internet.
Take a Down is again such animportant and popular resource
(15:18):
because it offers hope tochildren and families and
survivors, and I'd like to add acaveat there too.
To children and families andsurvivors, and I'd like to add a
caveat there too If you're anadult survivor whose images were
shared when you were a child.
The images were taken and orshared while you were a child.
You can still share those hashvalues with us and we will also
treat those exactly the same.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Okay, this is amazing technology and a new tool.
Basically, it's kind of new onthe scene right, and I'm sure
it's going to continue to evolveand even get better as as
technology goes on.
Okay, so I have a couplequestions about it.
How do you get that hashtaglike fingerprint, quote, unquote
fingerprint of the picture?
How do you?
(15:58):
How do you get that Like is itsomething that you teach us how
to go in and get on the phone,or just a basic?
I'm just curious From apractical standpoint, you will.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
You actually need the device that the photos are on
and, again, you're not sharingthe photos with us.
You will share the hash valueand we actually have a how to
video on our website as well.
That provides you with stepsand you and we have a handout as
well that we can share withyour listeners.
That also provides step-by-stepinstructions as well.
(16:30):
But essentially you will needthe device where the videos and
or images are located and thenyou'll share.
Again, we will not collect orextract images or videos.
We'll simply collect the hashvalue and once those hash values
are collected, we'll sharethose with our internet service
provider partners.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
There's a how to on your website, but you do need
the device of where the image isAbsolutely yes.
So and you and I want toreiterate, you said a couple
places to report, we got toreport.
So if this happens on Instagram, you're going to report on
Instagram.
So whatever app that it happenson, we're reporting.
Then you recommend that we filea cyber tip on your website.
(17:12):
That's a cyber tip report thatyou can make and when, when you
do that, that's not reporting tolaw enforcement, that's
reporting to you guys for yourdata.
You will not be sharing images.
I want to reiterate that youwill not be sharing any nude
photos or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Absolutely not.
As a matter of fact, we cannotaccept images or videos from the
public, so hence the importanceof reporting to law enforcement
.
When internet service providersor folks share CyberTipline
reports with us, again we addvalue to those reports.
We have some of the mostamazing analysts in the world.
We check to see again ifthere's any existing information
(17:58):
that we can cross-referencethis new report with.
Is a child in imminent danger?
So we add all that information.
We're often, when there'sminimal information, we're able
to perhaps help to find the IPaddress and where is this tip
potentially located, where didthis potential incident happen?
And then we're able to packagethat information and share with
law enforcement.
So there's just so manybenefits to reporting any
(18:20):
instance of child exploitationto the cyber tip line because it
triggers this series of stepswith the goal of engaging law
enforcement with all theinformation we can potentially
share and with providingsupports and services to
children and families.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Well, and how amazing that you're able to also track
this data and see where we'reseeing upticks, because that's
what we need prevention andawareness on how they're
targeting our children and thenwe can educate parents on the
data that you're collecting.
We also need to make sure thatwe report to local law
enforcement, and then oftentimes, you guys are working together
(18:56):
to figure out and catch theperpetrator.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
So yes, mandy, that's correct, we work very closely
with law enforcement.
Again, whether we receivereports from electronic service
providers, individuals and I'dlike to add, children are
capable.
We've certainly received cybertip line reports filed by
children themselves who, becauseof everyone, after they listen
to today's podcast, they'regoing to go home and talk to
(19:20):
their children, they're going toempower their children with
information, and so manychildren themselves have
reported and said you know, Ithink my best friend's being
sextorted or someone is cyberbullying me online or so on and
so forth.
So children are also capable.
I just wanted to make sure Isaid that as well.
Filing that cyber tip linereport again, access to free
(19:41):
resources and sharing thatinformation can be a game
changer in finding a perpetrator, bringing that perpetrator to
justice and seeking resourcesfor the survivors so that they
can recognize that there's hopein a community of folks who are
supporting, who are supportiveand care about their safety.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
You said something to Belinda that I thought was
really important because, as Iwork with families and you know,
sometimes I'm we're the firstcall oh my gosh, this has
happened.
There's hesitation to report tolaw enforcement because they're
scared their kid is going toget in trouble.
The kid is, you know, emotionaland afraid and wants to act
(20:23):
like it didn't happen, just makeit all go away, kind of thing.
And I want to talk about theimportance of reporting because,
like you said earlier,sometimes it takes one brave
child to report something and itmay take down a whole
exploitation ring over herebecause it connects a dot or
(20:44):
connect something to thatperpetrator.
Can we just like hone in onthat and the importance of of
making sure we contact the rightpeople.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
I think and I wear my mom hat always but I think
there's also a sense of reliefwhen you're filing that report,
that you know you're not aloneand that there's an entire
agency, an entire organizationlike NCMEC, that cares and knows
what you're talking about.
We respect what you'reexperiencing the good, the bad
(21:16):
and the ugly, your feelings Allof that we understand.
We're a safe place to sharethis information and to seek
support Based on some of thereports that we see.
Again, I'd be remiss if Ididn't share.
Oftentimes the perpetrator issomeone the child knows and
oftentimes it is someone thatthey met online someone the
(21:38):
child knows, and oftentimes itis someone that they met online.
And again, there are manyinstances where a child thought
they were talking to someonetheir own age, a potential love
interest.
They thought it was their,their best friend, and because
they were brave enough to tofile a cyber tip line report,
we're able to.
Oh no, this is the sameperpetrator who has done the
same thing to several otherchildren across several
(22:00):
different states or within thesame community, or so on.
So oftentimes the perpetratormay be located in a different
state and this may require abroader response and so filing
that cyber tip line report, inaddition to those services and
supports, can also be thedifference in ensuring that all
of the appropriate lawenforcement entities with
(22:22):
jurisdiction have the sameinformation so that they can
find perpetrators who arevictimizing children across the
country.
It's just so vital to ensurethat folks understand that NCMEC
is here to provide thosesupports and that guidance.
And I welcome folks to consideras well if you're on the fence
or not entirely sure or you'restruggling in that moment to
(22:43):
read through the steps.
I know we can all relate whenyou're stressed, you're scared
or something super traumatic hashappened.
It's hard to turn off theemotional part of us and turn on
the practical, logical sidethat knows how to read and type
and input things.
Call us, call 1-800-THE-LOST.
We can walk you through thatCyber Tip Line report.
We can walk you through thesteps and what to expect.
(23:04):
We're a phone call away.
We're a Cyber Tip Line reportaway, but again, you're going to
access those resources andservices and your information
could potentially align or besimilar to information we've
received from other reportersabout the same perpetrator, and
so the benefits are huge inreporting to the Cyber Tip Line
(23:27):
and making a difference inbringing justice to perpetrators
and providing support tochildren.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Helping connect the dots to make sure the bad guys
are caught, like that's reallywhat we got to do here.
So it's about speaking up.
I think another you know justreally important conversation to
have with your kids if theyhave fallen victim to this.
You know, to kind of empowerthem.
A lot of the kids just want itto go away, and I think one of
(23:52):
the things that I've learned inthis is being able to look at a
kid and say and I think one ofthe things that I've learned in
this is being able to look at akid and say, but this gives you
closure and you're helpingsomebody else not be a victim,
you know.
So those two things, let's walkhand in hand and take this step
together, because if you, if youdon't report and you just act
like it doesn't happen, likewhere where's that going to go
with that?
(24:12):
You know, I feel like there'shealing in reporting, there's an
ending to it.
There's like, okay, I'm goingto do this kind of thing,
speaking it out loud, speakingit out loud, bringing it into
the light.
Whatever you want to say,there's this, there's this
healing that can happen withthat, instead of just well, I'm
going to sweep this under therug and just act like it didn't
(24:33):
happen.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
But you know, I will add in and if that does happen,
um, in 10 years from now, thatchild, uh, survivor is now an
adult, and this happened whenthey were a child and they need
someone to talk to and they'reseeking support.
Call us, we're able to help.
Um, you know we're.
We're here until one of ourfavorite things to say we're
here until you tell us to goaway.
There is no charge for ourresources and our services.
(24:55):
We certainly have folks whocontinue to reach out.
You know, to your point.
You may think you're you'redoing OK, and then there may be
an event that has triggered someof that trauma and you need
someone to talk to.
You're not exactly sure whereto turn.
Give us a call.
We know exactly what to say,how to say it, where to send you
(25:17):
with regard to these types ofvictimizations.
We don't know the answer.
I'm sure we know whom to askand I'd like to make that point
too.
You don't have to have an opencase with the National Center to
access resources either.
So again, this could have beensomething that happened when you
were 12.
(25:37):
Now you're 25.
And you want to talk to someoneabout it?
Give us a call and we cancertainly try to connect you
with some resources.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
I love that.
I'm so glad you added that,belinda.
So if people want to know aboutthe take it down or about, like
the steps that we talked abouttoday, is there a resource on
your website that would kind ofguide them through the
information you provided today?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yes, so we one that I think will resonate with your
audience.
Today we have a tip sheetsextortion what parents should
know.
It is available on our website.
It's a downloadable PDF thatdefines sextortion for you.
It also provides you with thesteps I discussed today.
And another step that's listedon that tip sheet that I'd like
(26:26):
to add to this conversation aswell is some prevention.
We certainly hope this neverhappens, but we know
statistically there's a highlikelihood that it may.
Again, a mom myself working inthis space certainly put all of
the safety parameters and all ofthe things that I know to do to
try to keep my child safe, butI'm not with her 24 hours a day.
(26:47):
She goes to school, she hasfriends, she's.
She does not have a cell phone,but her friends do, and you
know so there's always going tobe opportunity for a child to be
exposed to content or justsituations we wish we could
protect them from.
So prevention is what we needto do, and what that looks like
is having open and honestconversations.
What I like to say, what myrule, is if you think your child
(27:10):
is old enough to have access toa device, they're old enough
for a conversation, and so, inaddition to this extortion
handout, I'd like to also sharethat we offer a huge variety of
resources, including ourNetSmarts content, which is
online safety resources,prevention resources, including
presentations, additional tipsheets and videos for kids in
(27:31):
grades K through 12.
You know, I challenge you tothink of the last time you went
to the grocery store or arestaurant and didn't see a
kiddo, a young kiddo, on atablet or maybe on someone's
phone, and so I think again, ifthey're old enough to have
access to the internet and to beable to utilize a device that
you've purchased for them, thenthey're absolutely old enough to
(27:52):
start having theseage-appropriate conversations,
and NetSmart certainly helps inthat regard.
Into the Cloud is a web-basedanimated series for kids 10 and
under, and each episode comeswith a discussion guide.
We know again I am not saying,hey, you need to go out today
and get a master's degree in allof the things digital we do a
(28:13):
lot of the heavy lifting for youdiscussion guides, talking
questions to ask your kiddo, andso those animated videos
include a discussion guide inevery episode touches on some of
the issues we've talked abouttoday, but in a way that's fun
and approachable for children.
Checking out these resources onnickmickorg, or simply typing
in NetSmartz into your favoritesearch engine will take you
(28:35):
there, and most of our resourcesare available in English and
Spanish.
And again, the key takeaway isearly and often.
Have those conversations earlyand often and create boundaries
as well.
Discuss your family's valuessurrounding healthy
relationships and expectations.
(28:55):
All of this falls under thecategory of empowering our
kiddos, explaining whatboundaries look like, making it
a comfortable topic for yourchild, and it may catch you off
guard, and I love that.
I love to hear when parents saywell, we did what you suggested
and now they're asking me allkinds of crazy questions.
I love it.
(29:15):
That's what we want.
We want our kids to come to uswith the crazy questions and to
feel comfortable and confidentin having those conversations
with us.
We also work with survivors aswell, and one of the common
things that we often hear is I,you know I, and not even just
from families of survivors, butyou know law enforcement,
educators, parents.
I wish I'd known what this was.
(29:37):
I would have talked to my kidabout it and I would have said
hey, if this happens, it's okay,come talk to me.
So when we establish theseconversations using these tools,
our kids recognize, as wementioned, kind of making a
callback to how we started ourconversation.
They're able to recognize oh,that's that thing.
Mom and dad said, uh-oh, I needsome guidance, I need some help
and I know I'm not going to getin trouble because mom and dad
(30:06):
said that I wouldn't be introuble.
And then that's where our owntraining comes into place.
We're going to take that deepbreath.
We're going to respond withlove, empathy and concern, even
though we're shaking on theinside and want to find who hurt
our baby.
We're going to take that deepbreath and we're going to go
through the logical steps.
It's really is a circle.
It's a circle of, or acontinuum, I should say, of,
trust, where we're establishingthose conversations.
We're going back to thoseconversations and resources
(30:28):
often, and it can look as simpleas Friday night is game night.
You're going to show me whatyour favorite game is.
I have no idea how to play this, but you're going to teach me
who are these folks you'retalking to.
Did we establish boundaries orguidelines about who you can
talk to?
Does this game have a featurewhere we can turn off that chat,
all of those kinds of things,and having conversations with
(30:49):
your child about expectationsaround those apps and access as
well.
You're only allowed to talk andplay with these folks.
If someone asks to take you toa third party chatting site,
that's.
That's not acceptable in thishome.
Or or here's what to do If youdo participate in something gets
out of control.
We have to establish clearexpectations, but also give our
(31:11):
children grace so that theyunderstand that, okay, we talked
about it, but well, you didn'tmake the decision I hoped you
would have in.
Something that happened, that'sokay.
You're still not in trouble.
I'm here to help you.
I think that's, and I know I'mrambling, but, as you can see,
I'm really passionate about this.
I think it's important for usto also simply have empathy and
(31:32):
grace with our children.
They're going to do and saythings that we wish that they
hadn't, but we need to continueto be their safe landing spot.
We need to be that source ofcomfort for them, and part of
that is empowering ourselves aswell, and your podcast is doing
such a lovely job of that bydefining these issues so that we
know how to talk about itbefore they perhaps seek
(31:54):
inaccurate information orinformation that makes them feel
that they can't come to us.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
You did a fantastic job.
All of it, yes, yes, all of it,yes, yes, all of it.
You said boundaries andexpectations a couple of times
and I think those are just key.
You know they are.
Key is is clearly communicatingthe boundaries and the
expectations.
You know, I remember with myown kids they're older now, but
(32:19):
you know, the first point waswhen they were gaming.
You can't talk with a strangeror somebody you don't know in
real life.
But then, as they got older andwe talked about sextortion and
online predators and I saw themhandle certain situations that
would pop up.
Then they could earn playing.
Okay, you can play withstrangers that you don't know in
real life, but you I love whatyou said but you can't go
(32:40):
outside of this app and thentalk or do this.
So you're setting up thoseparameters and they earn it in
steps, as they're ready for itand as they prove to you that
they can identify tricky peopleand that a red flag is going to
go off in their brain andthey're going to come tell you,
and then you're working togetheras a team to keep them safe,
and so I think that's so good.
(33:01):
And I think, on the boundariespoint too, I kept.
I kept thinking about somepictures that will get texted
and DM desk sometimes, of kidsthat are going into the bathroom
and they've got their iPad,like setting outside as they're
in the bathroom, because they'velearned that boundary of when
I'm undressing, I'm not going tohave a screen near me.
I think that's super importantfor us as parents to because
(33:24):
they are, porn is so readilyavailable and they are
desensitized to hearing aboutnude photos.
I mean, that's just like normallanguage in their, in their
culture, unfortunately and sothe more we can create those
boundaries around okay, nakedequals, no screens, kind of
thing.
You know there's, there's likea boundary in their mind about
it.
I think the better that theywill be, unless, um, the
(33:48):
predators are then less able tomanipulate them into sending a
nude or graphic image becausewe've instilled this like
boundary line in their mind.
And I think those boundariesand expectations when you were
saying that I was just like yes,yes, yes.
And I think those boundariesand expectations when you were
saying that I was just like yes,yes, yes and yes, because we
don't think to do it, because wedidn't grow up this way.
(34:08):
We didn't.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
We sure didn't, and this technology certainly wasn't
.
My daughter loves to telleveryone that her mom was born
in the 1900s and even thoughit's true, it doesn't make it
any less hurtful.
But we aren't growing up withthe same kinds of safety issues
that our babies are.
So, giving them grace andempathy, understanding, you know
(34:30):
this opportunity, you know I'min Austin, you know I'm hours
from you.
We're able to communicate inreal time technology can be such
a wonderful blessing.
To communicate in real timeTechnology can be such a
wonderful blessing, um, and so,embracing the good and preparing
our children for what can gowrong, um, and coupling those
boundaries and expectations with.
But even if, even if it didn'twork out and you made a choice
(34:52):
that maybe you regret, you canstill come to me.
You can still come to me.
I'm not going to be angry.
We're going to revisit ourconversation.
We're going to get you help.
My love, my empathy for you donot change Um, we're.
We're simply their littleguides or their little Yodas,
and in this life, uh and.
But having that grace andempathy is one thing that you
(35:13):
know as, again, as a parent andsomeone working in this space,
that I can't um over overstateenough, um, having all of the
steps down pat, having thedefinitions down pat, having
those conversations.
But again, in that moment whenour child takes us up on
everything we've tried to getthem to do, we've got to make
sure we maintain our cool andthat we lead with that empathy
(35:34):
and grace.
And how we respond to thatscenario.
As I tell my kid, life getsharder and harder.
So just tell me, was it youthat dropped the cereal or not?
You're not in trouble.
If it was you, we need to beable to trust each other and you
need to trust that.
I'm okay with that.
I will point you to the broomand remind you to be more
careful and we'll move on.
So it's a silly example, butone that I think encapsulates
(35:58):
how important it is to have leadwith that empathy and grace so
we can establish and maintainthat trust, that circle of trust
, with our kids.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
No, I think it's a perfect example because,
honestly, if you haven't handledthe cereal well, they're not
going to come to you on thisextortion stuff, right?
So, like it's the little thingsthat they're testing us, and,
like you said, when we respondwith that grace and empathy
because good kids make mistakeswe all know that Everybody makes
mistakes and I love theemphasis that you're putting on
(36:27):
this grace and empathy, becauseif we can do that in the daily
you spilled the milk, youspilled the cereal, you know
whatever.
You said a cuss word in a groupchat, whatever it is a word,
you know a cuss word in a groupchat and whatever it is when
we're responding to those littlethings, we're practicing almost
for the big crisis moments thatare going to happen in their
life.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Yes, you are 100% correct.
These topics are difficult,they're difficult to to read,
they're difficult to imaginehappening to your own child.
But that's what I think thebeauty of your podcast is too,
and your efforts is to make surethat these topics and these,
these trends are broken down inways that everyone can
(37:11):
understand and I hope that weare creating a ripple effect
where they'll, in turn, turn totheir, their families, because
in my own family, my daughter isso loved you know, of course,
right, and so I want to makesure her uncles and her aunts
and her grandparents and, youknow, all of her trusted adults,
understand what these issueslook like and establishing that
(37:32):
community of trust.
So maybe she is too scared totell mom, but I'm going to tell
my aunt so-and-so, and auntso-and-so is fully aware,
because mom listened to thispodcast and she knows and she
shared that info.
So, creating a community oftrusted adults and on that note,
I you know, I would like toalso share I hadn't mentioned it
earlier we also offer KidSmarts, which is an overall safety
(37:56):
curriculum for kids 10 and underthat talks about trusted adults
, how to identify them and,again, sometimes we have to talk
about uncomfortable things sothat we can get to a place of
empowerment.
But I'll reiterate thatoftentimes, statistically again,
you know 66%, you know theperpetrator is someone in a
(38:18):
position of trust with the childand so having those trusted
adults, safe, adultconversations with kids is so
important, expanding thatcommunity of trust and safety
for children and so our you candownload games and tip sheets
and more, all again with thegoal of early and often
(38:46):
conversations.
We get asked often what appsshould my kids avoid?
How old before I buy my kid aphone?
And we don't have hard answersfor that.
What I can say is the bestdefense for any of these issues
is communication.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
And all of these stuff NetSmart, KidSmart, the
Take it Down, it's all on yourwebsite, right, and it's all
free.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
All free.
Ncmecorg all of it is free, andwe also for the trusted adults
who are with us today.
Ncmec Connect is our freelearning management platform and
there's a variety.
You can set up or sign up foran account and there are a
variety of free and engaging andinteractive lessons or videos
(39:26):
that you can learn about avariety of topics, from online
safety to the history of NCMEC.
If you're interested in hearingmore about some of the ways
that we support missing andexploited children to
trafficking and beyond and thereare always new content being
developed and again all free.
So if you want information tobetter learn about the issues or
(39:48):
how to talk to your children,downloadable activities, tip
sheets all available on ourwebsite and all free.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Wonderful, Wonderful.
Belinda, you are a wealth ofinformation.
I love how we focus on theprevention and the relationship,
but we also have steps to takeif our kids fall victim to
sextortion and we have a plan inplace.
You guys have come up with thesteps and the take it down and
all of the stuff that helpsfamilies have a like a black and
(40:19):
white step process to helptheir kid in this crisis.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Yes, and in that moment I just want everyone to
know my heart is with you.
Remember, belinda said to takea deep breath, and it.
And if you, in that moment, areoverwhelmed, type in
nickmickorg and your phone, yourlaptop, your device, click on
the resources and it'll all comeback to you.
Call.
(40:43):
If you can't remember anythingelse, you can call
1-800-THE-LOST and we can helpwalk you through the process and
link you to resources that wayas well.
So take that deep breath andremember we're here to support
you because, as you do, webelieve that every child
deserves a safe childhood.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Awesome.
Thank you so much, Belinda.
I'm so appreciative of the workthat you do and countless
others in your organization.
Thank you for the resources youhave for us.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (41:11):
Next Talk is a 501c3 nonprofit keeping kids safe
online.
To support our work, make adonation at nexttalkorg.
Next Talk resources are notintended to replace the advice
of a trained healthcare or legalprofessional, or to diagnose,
treat or otherwise render expertadvice regarding any type of
medical, psychological, legal,financial or other problem.
You are advised to consult aqualified expert for your
(41:31):
personal treatment plan.
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