#205- Aliya Kasabian: "Troubled Teen" Industry | Health Scares and Escaping the Nightmare (Part 2)

We are back this week with the second and final part of my conversation with Aliya Kasabian who at 16 years old found herself living a nightmare when she was sent to Boise Girl's Academy a place many describe as a cult and even more people accused of preying on girls in the "troubled teen" system. In our concluding conversation we cover:

• Why her parents thought they were "giving her a gift" by sending her there and why they did not pick her up despite her pleas
• The PTSD she suffered and still deals with because of her time in Boise
• Picking up the pieces and what she did after leaving at 17 years old
• Her budding career as a tattoo artist.

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Aliya's Instagram: www.instagram.com/sandb0xb0y/

Aliya's Tattoo Page: www.instagram.com/tats.by.li

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Link to all things Not in a Huff Podcast: https://linktr.ee/notinahuffpodcast

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to Not in a Huff with Jackson Huff where we interview newsmakers,

(00:05):
storytellers, and all-around interesting people. Sit back, relax, unless you're
driving, and enjoy the show. Here's Jackson. Hello, hello, hello. I am Jackson Huff. This is Not in a Huff.
Thanks so much for joining me. As always, really appreciate it. We're back for week
two of my conversation with Aliya Kasabian. Now, I've had some two-parters

(00:31):
in the past, and oddly it seems like the second episode always gets more
listeners than the first. And I always am like, how did that happen? Did people
listen to the second episode twice? Which I hope is what happened, and it's not
that people just listened to the second episode and never went back to the first.
Because that's crazy to me. Some of the other ones I think the conversation was

(00:56):
a little bit better self-contained than this week. This week we're going to jump
straight back into her story. You know, we left it last week, if you remember, with
me asking her the question about her parents. You know, we talked so much
about just the terrible things that happened to her while she was at this
troubled teen home, the Teen Challenge in Boise, Idaho. We talked all about just

(01:21):
her experience. We talked about how she was writing letters to her parents
telling them about this experience, but they were just not doing anything about
it. And that's kind of where we left things off. How could her parents just
ignore her letters? How could they just be okay with all this happening to her?
And yeah, that was kind of the cliff-tanger of last week. And you're

(01:43):
going to learn very quickly in this conversation because, like I said, we're
just going to jump straight back into it of why her parents did that. It's kind of
a sinister reason when it comes to what the Teen Challenge was doing in order to
kind of pull the wool over her parents' eyes. So we're going to jump right into that
just to kind of reset things. You know, I'm talking to Aliyah who spent 14 months

(02:09):
in the Teen Challenge facility, troubled teen home in Boise, Idaho. Last week we
chatted all about that experience. This week we're going to cover what her
parents heard from all the experience, what they think now. We're going to talk
about leaving the place, graduating from the program, just kind of the PTSD she

(02:36):
deals with now and and deal with even stronger when she first left. We're going
to talk about what she's up to these days. There is some portions this week
because this conversation was over three hours long and I had to pare it down to
two hour episodes. So, you know, there's obviously some times I had to do

(02:57):
some editing which I don't ever like to cut out any stories that people tell. But
this week has a little bit extra editing just because of, you know, the nature of
different things we were talking about were things that may be easier to
remove from the overall story but certainly not from Aliyah's story as a
whole. You know, I only tell you that because one or two times maybe

(03:22):
she's going to reference a story that you may have not heard. But I don't
think that's too much of the case but I never like to hide when minor things are
edited, you know, when it comes to just whole blocks of questions I may have
asked but never never change anything that anyone ever says. But yeah, we're

(03:44):
going to jump right back into it literally right almost mid-sentence.
Here is Aliyah Kasabian. You know, we've already talked about how, you know, all
these punishments were wild. The rules were really, really crazy. You know, you
wrote your parents about, you know, them taking away tampons and your mom
agreeing to send some. All of these things make it seem like the normal

(04:07):
person would be like, okay, the kid writes their parents about all this
terrible stuff. The parents think, oops, this is not a great situation. Let me get
them out of here. You were writing your parents. You were saying really bad, you
know, things were really, really not great but your parents were not pulling you out.
And you kind of learned afterwards why that was the case. So talk a little bit

(04:28):
about your letters and then how, you know, the place kind of, you know,
construed those and made your parents and all parents not realize just
how bad things were.
Yeah, so I think the program really preys on being a middleman in

(04:48):
communication between a child and their parents and having control over what
they believe because obviously when your kid is sent in here, you're putting more
trust in the leaders of this program than you are in your kid. That's the
baseline. Parents are actually sent, I have this document, I actually didn't get
a hold of this document until a few months ago. My mom shared it with me

(05:10):
because I was asking her to send me some stuff and it's super long. I don't know
if you can see that. Bunch of pages.
Yeah, like little fine print it seems like.
Yeah. And it's called emotions overview. So parents are sent this before you even

(05:33):
get in the program. And it basically outlines stage one, stage two, stage
three, stage four, stage five, stage six of what your girl is going to do, how
she's going to act, how she's going to try to quote, manipulate you and how
it's going to all come together in the end. So I close this. Okay, cut off a few

(05:57):
words. So parents are given this document, I'll kind of summarize what it says.
Stage one is crisis resolution. It tells the parents that they're gonna feel some
relief, some mourning and some grief. They tell them it's hard to know how to
feel. And it says some students first reaction may be one of rebellion or

(06:21):
outright defiance. It also says, oh my gosh, this kills me reading this. Because
when you get there, you either, it really is, you either defy everything or you
genuinely are like, okay, tell me what I need to do to get out of here. And they

(06:42):
tell you at the beginning of the program, you don't need to be a Christian to
graduate this program, you just need to do your 12 contracts and get out. But
then it says, it says, however, most girls conform. Overcompliance with the
rules is not uncommon. We also see the misuse of spirituality at this stage. The
motive for overcompliance can vary. Some are trying to prove to others themselves

(07:06):
that no problem exists while others try to impress or build rapport with staff
members. It is not unusual for girls to be quiet, withdrawn, or apathetic and
guarded in this phase. So basically, what this outlines is there's no way to win
when you first get there, you're in the wrong. If you defy, you get in trouble.

(07:27):
And if you over comply, you're being watched because you're being fake. And
you're trying to gain rapport with staff. What's wrong with trying to gain rapport
with staff by being good? Isn't that what they want? It also says that the parents
are going to feel relief and to basically enjoy that relief. Stage two is

(07:48):
stabilization. It says you're no longer in crisis mode, your daughter begins to
be in the routine of the program, she'll learn the system, learn what is expected.
It says, through months two, three, and four, you are likely to notice that your
daughter becomes increasingly negative. She will badmouth staff the program, other

(08:10):
residents and events comments such as this place is not helping me, and I am
bored here are common. Your daughter, this is crazy. Your daughter is only
testing your commitment to keep her here for the entire length of the program and
complaining is her way to do that. So it's like no matter what you say, they've
already been told you're going to make things up. And it's a test for them. So

(08:35):
not only are they warning them, they're kind of putting something on the parents
of you're going to be tested by your kid, can you handle it? And then that, I mean,
goes into a sense of pride in the parents. But so yeah, I was writing my
parents, I wrote them my first letter and basically just said how depressed I was,
how this wasn't the place for me, how I felt angry. And then I wrote them another

(08:59):
letter about a week later saying that I understood that I was in the wrong, and
that I needed to work on things which honestly was so true. It, I could have
been healed by being there for two days and seeing what, what I needed to be
thankful for more because this environment existed. My parents had a

(09:22):
thing with us growing up. And as we all kind of became teenagers, they told us,
if you're ever in a situation where you really need our help, and you really
need us to come get you, and you don't want us to ask any questions, send us a
red X over text, and we will come no questions asked. I never used that X and

(09:43):
I was in so many scary situations as a teenager. In my second letter to them, I
was very apathetic and very emotional. There was a footnote on the side that
said, I'm scared of being here. And I'm gonna act like I'm okay because I'm

(10:05):
scared of punishments here. And I basically said at the bottom of the
letter, I said, this is my red X to you guys. I need you to believe me, I need
you to trust me that this place is not good. And they didn't respond well to
that either. And I started to get confused because as much as I knew me and

(10:26):
my parents had conflict, I was like, my parents are good. Like I know they are
good people. So what is going on? Eventually, I was like, finding little
things to report to them that I thought would be more logical. Like we were
eating this expired chicken for months. And we would ask, you know, like, why
are we eating this expired chicken? And they're like, oh, it was in the freezer.

(10:47):
It's fine. That's not how that works. So I'm eating expired deli meat. And I
write them about that. I'm like, okay, if nothing else, they have to be worried
about my health. No, no good response back. And I'm like, why is that not
bothering them? And it wasn't until like you said about, I want to say
like six months after I got home, where I asked my mom to see my letters. And on

(11:09):
every single one in the beginning, where I said I've been crying a lot, or they're
feeding us expired food, or it doesn't feel right here. There's sticky notes
from the director saying, oh, she's lying, a for effort. Oh, she loves
attention. Wow, she's dramatic, like almost making it a joke. And just really
reassuring my parents that I was fine. If I wrote them I was crying a lot, she

(11:31):
would attach a sticky note that said she hasn't cried at all this week. Which how
do you know that because she only came around like once a week once every two
weeks. She was like, God there. Like if you saw her since you knew she was the
way to get home is like you just wanted to act really good in front of her. But
yeah, parents are totally manipulated. And even in phone calls, which you have

(11:53):
to earn after a month of being there, you're in a room, you get 15 minutes,
there's a staff listening on speakerphone with you, and they're literally doing
like a court paper like typing everything that said and then send it to
their director. So no way of private communication, basically.
That's terrible just because I feel like they kind of realized normal human

(12:18):
responses and normal, normal responses to coping with traumatic situations and
basically just laid it out. So, you know, parents basically just discount all of
those normal emotions. So that's, that's really, really awful for sure. And I
want to, you know, we we've covered a ton here. I want to, I want to get you out of

(12:40):
this place. So my now my question is, this is this is that question I told you
about earlier. And is there parts of this that we haven't covered that you
still want to cover before we start talking about how you graduated your
program and life afterwards?
Yeah, so I'll just hit a couple points I have in my notes. I like put

(13:01):
exclamation points next to the thing I just remember to say. Sure. May not all
be in order, but one of the big things was there was a girl there who started
having night terrors. And they were really, really bad. So the first one
happened around Christmas and I woke up and I was so scared like blood curdling

(13:21):
screens and just like banging on the walls and I was like, what's happening?
Eventually, this became like an every week or every day occurrence. And this
girl, every room she was in when she was asleep, she was flipping mattresses and
punching holes through the walls and like knocking paintings off the walls.
And everybody would just wake up, come to the middle of the room and just

(13:46):
move the room. And I would have to go grab noise canceling headphones for
girls with trauma. So it's just like a group of girls having panic attacks and
somebody who's having a terrible night terror and it's not being dealt with.
Eventually, she got moved into like this music room with a mattress, punched
holes all through the walls. And all they ever did for her was like pray over

(14:11):
her. So that just like wasn't dealt with properly. One, two like moments in the
beginning of my program that are like good to touch on. Just like capture the
emotions I was feeling. Like another like movie moment, right? Like something I
remember very vividly. One of my first Bible studies, I was asking questions,

(14:35):
like a lot of questions. And I'm sure some of them were like somewhat like
argumentative, but I was never disrespectful. So I asked a few questions
and then eventually the leader said, you're not allowed to ask any more
questions. This is ridiculous. And I got so angry. I was like, oh, I've never,
the only emotions that match the intensity I felt there is when I found

(14:58):
out my best friend died. And like, I've never felt anything like that. It was
just pure anger. So I'm sitting there and I bit like a fourth of the top of my
lip off and there was blood just like running down my face. And she just didn't
care. So I just kept biting my lip and I was just like blood, blood, blood.

(15:23):
Yeah, it was awful. And then there was obviously girls there who suffered
sexual assault before they came. One girl I knew was sexually assaulted and the
director of the program cornered her and was like, what did the rug feel like?
When did it happen? What like interrogating her about it? And since she was so

(15:46):
like, what the fuck is happening? And she couldn't answer all the questions.
The director was like, you didn't get raped. If you got raped, you would have
remembered all of that. So she's interrogating people about these
situations and denying them. And then this was from after I was gone. This is
very, very important to put in. This is like top headline. The, the healthcare.

(16:14):
We were only allowed to see a male doctor and these are girls who, half of them
have been sexually assaulted at least. There was a girl and I don't know if you
know, there's a list online that you can find of all the deaths in the troubled
teen industry since like the mid 1900s. There was one at a teen challenge, which

(16:38):
is the same branch of facilities I was at. And it was for medical neglect. A
girl died in the program. In my program, there was a girl who came after me. One
of my friends shared this with me. She had been brutally assaulted before she
got there and her pelvic floor was messed up. She was in a lot of pain, but
she obviously didn't want to go see a male doctor to inspect that. Eventually

(17:01):
it got really, really bad. So she asked, she was like, okay, can I just go to the
doctor, please? It hurts so bad. She was denied the ability to see the
doctor because of her quote promiscuous past. She now is infertile and it could
have been taken care of, but she was called promiscuous for being assaulted

(17:22):
and now she can never have children, which is insane. Like absolutely crazy to
me. Food is another thing just to include. We're paying $7,000 a month and
some nights, A, I didn't eat because staff would eat before us or B, I ate.

(17:43):
There was a night we had ravioli and our serving size was three raviolis,
three single raviolis. Not enough food and inconsistent amounts of foods,
which led to me having an eating disorder after, which I'll touch on, but
just always eating like it's your last meal and no snacks are allowed. Going

(18:03):
along with the strip search inconsistency, my third little sister, she was still
figuring out her sexuality and the owner of the program, Heather Shaw, I'm
going through her bags because I'm her big sister. Heather Shaw goes in, does
her strip check. She comes out and she says, she's laughing. She says she can

(18:27):
say whatever gender she is, like whatever she wants. I saw boobs and she's like
laughing and it's like, why are you making a joke about a minor's strip check?
Just so inappropriate and so much making fun of girls in crisis mode.
I would say the last thing that was big, just like experience for me that was

(18:51):
really tough was I was in like probably my eighth or ninth month doing really
good. And this is just like, it's so, even now, it's like hard to talk about
because it's just disgusting. But I was mopping the floor because I was on
kitchen help and a girl comes up to me randomly out of nowhere. She goes, hey,

(19:12):
just so you know, like there's a rumor that you've been masturbating in your bed
like at night in front of everybody. And I was like, sorry, what? I dropped my mop.
I ran into the industrial freezer and just like sobbed my eyes out because what
do you do in that situation? You know, it's one of those rumors where like,
while it doesn't matter if everybody believes you that it's not true, it's

(19:33):
something that's now put into people's minds and it's just like awful to know
that they're thinking about that when you walk into a room. So I'm like all
torn up and I'm just having such a rough time. So I'm talking to a staff about it,
sobbing my eyes out and I'm like, I end the conversation and I'm like, I just
really can't wait for my phone call this weekend. Like I need to talk to my mom
about this. Like I need some comfort. And she goes, you know, it's kind of a

(19:58):
disrespectful topic. So I wouldn't talk about that in your phone call. And I was
like, what, like, what do you mean? And she was like, you can do whatever you
want, but like, if I'm the one taking down notes for your phone call, I'm not
going to write that part because it would be disrespectful for, for Heather,
like for her to read that. So just like, again, with like not being able, not
even being able to like express my emotional hurt to my parents while I was

(20:21):
there. Yeah. It was just very, very controlling. I, yeah, I've never felt
like I felt there and I live to be sure that I never make anybody else feel like
that. I think just evil, so much evil in that place.
Yeah. Yeah. And I want to, I want to get to, you know, you, you're leaving the

(20:43):
place, but just to touch on one of the things that you, you mentioned that just
is baffling to me, and that is around the, the girls who, who were there, they
had experienced some kind of sexual trauma. And, you know, the, the example
that you gave with, you know, the person saying, Hey, if you can't remember
everything, it means it didn't happen. That is extremely, extremely awful just

(21:11):
because, you know, I, I, you know, I've had this podcast for a long time and
I've talked to people who have dealt with sexual abuse and, and, you know,
whether it's members of the clergy or a lot of other things, I've had people on
that literally remember that the trauma was so bad that they don't even, they,
their mind is blocked it out. And they remember 30 years later. So to tell

(21:34):
somebody that just because they don't remember everything that it didn't
happen is extremely, extremely troubling. Wild. And I mean, that's a scientific
thing, something that was explained to me about my experience in Idaho. Like I
still have large memory gaps from being there because it's just like a survival
mode. Your brain just does it for you.

(21:55):
Yeah. So let's, let's talk about leaving. Yeah. How, how long were you there?
And how did you finally graduate the program?
So I was there for 14 months. I graduated early, actually, which is crazy
that 14 months is early. I got there in June of 2020 and left August of 2021. I

(22:21):
got out by basically just doing exactly what they asked of me. I just became, and
it needs to be noted that I, I did not have the mindset of fake it till you make it.
That wasn't an option for me in there. It's what I would do now. I would go
to the gym and I would do what I would do now being secure in myself and my

(22:44):
beliefs, but I was, I was lost. I didn't know what I believed. I still felt
religious guilt. So I thought, maybe, maybe God does need to find me. And maybe
this is his, maybe I deserve this, you know? So I started to take on more
responsibility and like, it was big Stockholm syndrome really got me being.

(23:06):
Beat down and then finally being told that I was doing something right felt like
the first breath of fresh air and so long. And when you start to see little
glimpses of yourself doing well, it starts to kind of fuel you, fuel you.
And it's like, okay, maybe I can make it. Maybe I can, maybe I can tough this out,
you know? You get your first visit with your parents about six months into your

(23:31):
program. And it's been so long that you don't want to risk having to start your
program over by telling them something. So you just kind of keep it to yourself.
Parents, like you, you want to see them so bad that you don't even think about
the program. It's just like somebody you know after so long. And they tell the

(23:52):
parents if we asked to go home on our parent weekend to just take us back right
away and we lose our visit with them. So they know that to us it's not worth the
risk. So I held out for my parent weekends on my birthday, my 17th birthday.
It lined up with a parent weekend. So I got to see my siblings for the first time.

(24:15):
It was like my third parent weekend and that's when siblings could come.
I'm very close with my siblings. So that was awesome, but also really sad. I
have this memory of just like how fucked that birthday was. Like my actual birthday was the
day after parent weekend. So they got to come to church in the morning. It was a Sunday,
but they had to leave on my birthday. And I remember it was my last day of seeing them

(24:41):
for a few months and they walk into church and I see them and everybody's like giving me a hug.
And it took them like 10 minutes to be like, oh my gosh, happy birthday. Like they forgot
it was my birthday because it was just this like whole thing. It was just, it was not good.
So yeah, I mean, once I got to that point, I was like, I'm so, you just kind of like,

(25:02):
I'm so close at this point. Like I can, I can do it. And I'm getting praised by all these people
and I'm getting better at praying in front of people and I'm feeling what I think is the Holy
Spirit guiding me. And I'm getting responsibility to teach younger people how to survive this
program. And eventually it's not even survival. It's like, yes, this place is really hard, but

(25:29):
I'm a Christian. God's going to provide for me. This is what's meant for me.
I got to a point where my saying was discipline is love, which is so messed up, but that is truly
what I believed. Love is discipline. So yeah, I got to that point where I was like,
discipline. So yeah, I got sat down on one of my last parent weekends. I think it was a

(25:49):
June parent weekend. So it had been a year since I've been there. And they pulled me into a room
and basically told me that they were thinking of graduating me in August instead of October.
And I didn't even let myself get excited. I just said, you know, how, how much of a chance is that?
Because one thing you learn there is that hope is fatal. It's, it's not something you can have.

(26:14):
So, you know, I just sit there, I'm like, you know, how, what are the
odds that that happens? And they're like, we're graduating you in August. And I just like burst
out crying, like so excited. So they planned a home visit for me. I got to fly back by myself
in July of 2021. I got to stay home for about a week. I still had to follow all the rules

(26:38):
of program and I did. I, my best friend, her name's Annie, known her for a long time. She found out
that I was going to be back or something. And I wasn't allowed to talk to people I knew when I
got back. And it's so wild. This just really shows how brainwashed I was because in like

(27:01):
the first few months, if I had seen her, I would not care what punishment I got. I would go up to
her and give her the biggest hug ever because I love her. When I got back on that home visit,
we pull up to my house and she's like walking up to my doorstep because she had a gift for me.
And I panicked. I started crying and I said, turn the car around like this and this and this and
that. Like I felt so much anxiety because I didn't want to get in trouble and I didn't know what to

(27:25):
do. And I didn't know how to interact with people anymore. So yeah, I, I visited home for a week and
then I had to go back for another month and a half. And that was really, really hard. That was just
like final push because the end of my program was not frustration about the program, but
frustration because I was a true Christian. And I realized that a lot of the staff around me weren't

(27:48):
and dealing with that. So yeah, eventually my graduation rolled around in August. It actually
got canceled because there was a COVID outbreak. So I didn't get like a ceremony or anything,
just a little piece of paper with my parents. And then they were like, and you're free to go.
And that was really, really weird.

(28:11):
I guess I need to ask you too, because we're talking about how there's people there from 13
to, you know, 18 and we're talking now about graduation. What did school look like? Are the,
you know, were you taking classes during this time? Are people actually, you know, advancing
through their actual education while they're there?
Yeah. So it was a homeschool program called Lighthouse, I believe, Lighthouse Academy.

(28:36):
The teachers there, a lot of them were not professionally trained. So we're doing these
homeschool packets and the teachers are responsible for like sending them back to the company,
getting them graded, all that jazz. When I first got there, they actually tried to get me to restart
my sophomore year and it took me months to fight to get them to start my junior year. So I wouldn't

(28:56):
be behind, but the school was bullshit. I know girls who graduated, got a diploma while they were
in there, tried to apply for college afterwards and were told their diploma was invalid or that
they didn't have enough credits. So people's futures were getting messed up. I lost art credits.

(29:18):
I didn't get to take AP art when I came back to school. Yeah, the school was not good. Also,
I was tutoring girls all the time because teachers didn't know how. I was like helping girls do trig
and upper level math. And then also I was the only person who would tutor for music because I grew up

(29:42):
playing music, playing the piano, doing some jazz training. So I was the only person who understood
like what a circle of fifths was and how scales worked and things. So I would have to cut out of
my class time to help girls pass their elective classes, which is not my job.
So let's talk about integrating back into regular society. What was that like? Because I know that

(30:07):
you dealt with a very traumatic experience and you just mentioned the brainwashing that had
happened where you didn't even want to see your friends. So talk about kind of that process.
Yeah. So when you get back and when you get towards another, your program, they get back
towards another, your program, they really try to convince you to not be friends with or talk to

(30:35):
anybody that you were friends with before. And they kind of use the concept of like,
if they let you be the way you were before, are they really your friend? You know, like
they didn't tell you you were messed up. Are they really your friend? So that really got to me. And
I had this, I had such intense guilt at this time when I got back and that even to this day has been

(30:58):
my biggest problem. I mean, you can only imagine how, if you take a girl who struggled with guilt
their entire life and convinced themselves they're doing things wrong, even when they're not,
and then put that girl in a place where they're told everything is their fault, you can only
imagine what that does to like the head, you know? So when I got back, I, the first night,

(31:28):
we stayed in Idaho for one more night after I graduated. My parents took me bowling with
like another family and I got to sleep in like a real bed first time. That was awesome. And then
I, we drove home. We just drove back to my house, back to the same house that I was always at.

(31:51):
And it was really, really weird. I was so happy, but it was so odd. I, I felt so disconnected from
myself. And I think the first month, the joy kind of overtook whatever bad feelings were starting
to come up, but I got a job. I was working for, who's actually the mayor of our town now.

(32:18):
Her name's Rosario. I worked at a taqueria down in the old town of our town. I was still doing
homeschool. I, they convinced me, you know, not to go back to public school. And I'm really glad
that my friend Annie showed up on my doorstep that day because I was able to convince myself,

(32:40):
maybe it's a sign that I am supposed to still be friends with her. That was like my alibi for that
moment. So I talked to my parents, asked them permission, and we set up a day to meet at a
coffee shop we always used to go to. I saw her for the first time. We both cried and we talked,
we caught up. And I talk with her about this moment now. And I'm so thankful that she and

(33:07):
some other people had so much patience with me when I got back because she was like, like, that
was not even you. Like, I knew you were in there, but like, not you at all. Like, my siblings were
really concerned when I got back because they could tell I was just like shell shocked, like,
um, really messed up. Things started to come out after I actually ended up visit, visiting Idaho

(33:30):
again, after I graduated, I was still dedicated to the program, saying it saved my life. And I
wanted to go see my sisters again, because that was all I knew. Uh, so Christmas time, I booked a
flight and I visited Idaho again. I had to sign a bunch of contracts, put away my phone while I
visited. And I remember when I walked in the building, I expected all of my old friends to

(33:57):
be like, Oh my gosh, like, Ali is here. Like, yada, yada, yada. I walk in and I sit down and
nobody like acknowledges me. So somebody like waved to me, but I was like, what the fuck?
And I started getting this vibe and hearing that rumors had started to be spread about me there.
And it was so hurtful for me because I was still living according to the program and rumors were

(34:20):
being spread about me. So it was just so hurtful. And that really is why these programs say they
have so many quote success stories. I think the more appropriate term would be we have success
stories within the first year of graduation, because I know almost every girl I know, I know

(34:43):
almost every girl I know the year or few months they came back, they're like, this saved my life,
whatever. After things unravel, their life is worse than it's ever been. And they're dealing
with problems that are worse than they ever were before. I cannot think of a single person I have
talked to whose life is better now. And I don't know a single girl who doesn't call me sometimes

(35:04):
and say that they're having flashbacks and PTSD and that they need my help. So yeah, basically
their system is once you graduate, they talk about you, they say this person, this is their story and
they graduated. As soon as they get word that you're not following program rules or you're,
they stopped talking about me when I got my first tattoo, even though I told them I wanted to be a

(35:25):
tattoo artist. As soon as they get wind that you're doing something wrong, they stop talking about you
or the staff stalk you on social medias and tell the students, oh, so and so is doing this. They're
not good at this, yada, yada, yada. And then slowly you're not the success story anymore and the new
ones come along. So I was really hurt that December because I was still doing so good

(35:50):
and I wasn't getting credit for it and my friends didn't want to see me. So I stayed there for maybe
three or four days, set aside my friends, whatever. One girl, I remember the problem was this one girl
was stalking me on my Instagram and my Facebook when I got back. It was a girl that I was there with

(36:13):
and she would text my mom every day like, hey, can Malia talk to me this and this and this.
And then she went as far to like copy my Pinterest boards and like start pinning things that I pinned.
So she was just like stalking me and I was like, what is going on here? She was still in contact
with people in the program and started spreading rumors about me there. So I just got so angry.

(36:34):
And when I got back from that trip, I kind of lost it. And that was the first real like breakdown I
had. I was in the front room talking with my family. My whole family was there. And I was
just like sobbing. I was like, I'm so angry, this and this and this. And then things started to come
out. I was like, and they would take our blankets when it was really cold and I didn't get enough

(36:55):
food and this and this. And one of my siblings stopped me and they were like, Alia, that's child
abuse. And I was like, what? So just like the first time since the beginning of my program that I felt
bad for myself a little bit. Those first few months back, I constantly asked my mom if I could use the

(37:16):
bathroom because that was just like ingrained in me. I didn't know how to cry anymore. When I did,
I would like literally cover my face because I didn't want anybody to see me crying. And I
apologized for everything. I still do this. Like my boyfriend, when I say I'm sorry now, he says,

(37:36):
for what? Because like, I am apologizing for nothing most of the time. But that's just like
my defense mechanism. Like I'm always just sorry. I'm sorry. You know, I don't want to be at fault.
I don't want to make you angry. So yeah, that was kind of how things started. I started to have some
health problems also from my time there. I still have a really hard time with my bladder. I was

(38:00):
forced to hold my pee for like, sometimes upwards of three or four hours at a time. And so I developed
an anxious attachment to my bladder. I've talked to my psychiatrist about it. There are some days
where I have to pee at 8 30pm and I stay up till one in the morning because I can't pee until then.

(38:26):
I have bladder issues now and I'm trying to work on them because my psychiatrist said that,
you know, people who hold it for too long or pee too much, they end up having to get bladder surgery.
So I'm crossing my fingers that that doesn't happen to me. But the fact that I wasn't given
freedom to use the bathroom when I needed to affected me health-wise and it still does.
I became friends with the girl who made fun of me for having depression again,

(38:50):
because she was my best friend and she was Christian too. So it seemed to work out again.
I was working at the taqueria and one day I was walking to work. I thought I wanted to go to
college at the time and I find out that my credits don't qualify me for a UC unless I want to take
summer school or another year of school. I get so angry and this is like a few months after. So

(39:13):
my friend visits and I tell her, I want to hit your vape. I want to hit your vape. And she's like,
are you sure? You know, like this and this and that. And I'm like, yes, I'm absolutely sure.
So I started vaping again kind of out of rebellion, just like pure, like I'm angry and like I deserve
to do what I want to do. I started that and then my friend who made fun of me for having depression

(39:38):
made fun of me for having depression and bullied me for it. She, I was 18 at this time, an adult.
She decided to, instead of talk to me about it, she found out she called my mom and she,
she told, she tattled on me, an 18 year old girl instead of coming to me. And that started over

(40:02):
this fighting between me and my parents that lasted for probably like a year and a half
of we know you're smoking again, we know you're doing this again. And I called that,
I stopped being friends with that friend after that. And I said, you know, I'm not even angry
at you. Like I'm just confused by you. I don't understand. And like you also just clearly don't

(40:23):
respect me as an adult, like to come to me and ask me what's going on. So then I started smoking
again, weed again. And it really helped with my PTSD. It took, I was having like panic attacks
every single day. If somebody raised their voice at me, I immediately was crying, shaking, flashbacks,

(40:47):
just the whole nine yards. So I found comfort in what I found comfort in before. And it felt like
this full circle, just like this. I felt like not only did they not solve my problems that I had in
the beginning, but they've now added a whole other series of bigger problems onto my plate.

(41:14):
So I'm dealing with more than I ever have before. And I don't know how to voice it to my parents
yet, because I don't even really realize what's happening. I started, I convinced my parents to
let me go back to school because I was getting really depressed and I was by myself. So I went
back to public school for the second half of my senior year. That was probably one of the best

(41:37):
decisions that I made coming home. And I was really afraid to ask to go to public school,
because I was afraid they would think that I was bad. But I met some really great friends that year.
I really just that year, I was just a teenager. I just wanted to be a normal teenager who had fun,
had friends. I wanted a normal life and I wanted to feel like a normal kid. I didn't want to think

(42:01):
about all the shit. When I came back to school, I had a lot of people tell me that they thought I
was dead. I had one person who I barely knew come up to me and say, Hey, just so you know,
like, I actually kind of agree with your parents decision to send you somewhere.
Because I was like worried about you. And just like so many opinions from people who didn't know
what happened when I couldn't even process at this point what had happened. I ended up meeting

(42:28):
my best friend now, Kyla, and my other best friend, Danny, in school. And we got really,
really tight. I was closer with Danny and in the start, and she was the first person that I met
who like, she really wanted to hear about my experience. Like it wasn't like me being like,

(42:52):
Oh, this and this and this happened. And then being like, I'm so sorry, this happened to me,
yada, yada, yada. It was like, Oh my god, tell me more. Or what? How was this like? Or, and then
she would tell people about it for me. Like when we would go out, she would be like,
Aliyah, this and this and this and this. And she would take me to her house with her parents and
she would take me to her house with her parents and be like, Aliyah went through this, can you

(43:14):
believe that? And then they would comfort me. She was the best ever. And we just were so alike,
like our thinking and our struggles. And she just understood me very well.
I want to ask you about your parents. And there, I guess once you came home, and they realized

(43:36):
what you were saying was not made up. It was a terrible situation. Something that they put you
in. You said, and I've got to believe it, I got to take your word that they were coming from a very
good place, not knowing what happened. They were a victim as well to the entire scheme. So what is

(44:00):
your relationship with them now? And how have they dealt with all of it? I mean, I feel like
there's got to be a little bit of guilt there from them too. Absolutely. So when I got back,
like I said, especially when they found out I was vaping again, and I also didn't know that they
were being lied to, I kind of thought that they were just discounting me. So there was a lot of

(44:23):
miscommunication there. And we fought for a really long time. I would get really angry at them, like
out of nowhere. And then they would be like, we didn't know you were still upset about this.
I really, really, really just craved like an apology that was self-induced, not me complaining

(44:44):
and then them saying, well, we're sorry. The best that I would ever get from them was like,
if we would have known what was going on, we would have chose differently. But I just wanted
like a, we're so sorry for putting you through that. I was super angry at them. And like, I blamed
them for a lot of it for a long time. My relationship with them really started healing. During the time

(45:05):
I was living with my boyfriend, Christmas of last year, I contracted CHS again, which is
cannabis sickness. It's just when your body can't just rejects it. I also have acid reflex, so that
makes me more prone to it. So I lost like my biggest coping mechanism in an instant. I was in

(45:27):
the ER and it's like a super horrible sickness. It's a lot of pain. And we had been through this
before when I was 15 and it was really uncomfortable and really scary. And going through it again,
I felt like such a failure. Like I felt like my mom was right this whole time. I felt like I was
stupid. And my mom was just so gracious throughout the entire process. She never said anything that

(45:49):
made me feel dumb. She never, I don't know, she was just kind and wanted me to feel better.
And I went to my psychiatrist after that and he wanted me to come in and the first thing he said
was like, I know you're feeling guilty and you're feeling like this is a bad thing. But I had gone
at that point from smoking like 20 bowls a day to smoking a half a bowl a day. So it was like,

(46:11):
I don't understand why I'm being punished for this now. You know, that was a big thing that
was ingrained in me there was like, everything was a punishment or a lesson from God. When I would
get my period early in Idaho, I would sob and ask God what I did wrong to deserve that, what he was
trying to teach me. And so my psychiatrist basically told me, don't think of this as

(46:36):
like something that you did wrong. Really, it's like your body's way of showing you that you're
healing and like rejecting it because you're cutting down and you don't need it anymore.
So then I started the process of being sober and not smoking anymore. I just hit my six months sober.
Woo woo. But I felt so angry for so long because I was like, I'm not doing hard drugs. I'm not

(47:05):
drinking alcohol. I have this one vice that is not that bad for you and it helps me so much. And why
do I always get things ripped away from me? I felt like my life was ripped away from me, then my best
friend was ripped away from me and now my biggest coping device has been ripped away from me. And
it was like mourning a whole other loss. But my mom continued to be just so loving towards me. She

(47:30):
was so supportive. She would tell me how proud she was of me. And I just became really vulnerable
again. I got back in touch with like, I'm a very emotional person. And we definitely kind of dulled
that down. But yeah, I definitely got a lot of clarity from that the first few months really hard.
I ended up moving back to my mom's house. Nothing wrong with me and my boyfriend's relationship,

(47:54):
just getting better with my family. And since moving back, it's been really, really good.
I am treated as an adult. And my parents have just been amazing, like never make me feel dumb. And
my mom is like, one of my best friends now, like so supportive and so kind. And after that,

(48:18):
after I released that podcast, and I had been talking about it, I was kind of nervous the day
that it dropped for them to listen to it. Because I really hoped that I had portrayed that like,
truly none of this was their fault. And I really hold no resentment anymore towards them.
And my mom walked in and she was like, like, didn't even really say anything. And I was scared she was

(48:45):
upset or something. I was on the couch and she came up to me and she just started sobbing. And
she was like, I'm so sorry we put you through that. Like, there's some stuff in there like we didn't
even know happened. And that just felt so good. And it was way more rewarding because at that point,
I already didn't hold resentment towards my parents, but receiving that apology still was just so

(49:10):
needed. And then she also just like, thanked me for being so patient with them. Because I think
there was a lot of brainwashing on both sides that needed to be undone. And now we're really great.
It's really weird to have a good relationship with my parents again, but it's so nice like to
not have secrets and like icky stuff. Like, I don't know, they've just been really good.

(49:34):
Really happy to hear that. And I want you to tell us now, what's the outlook of these programs now?
They're still out there. And what can people do to, I guess, help expose these? And what have you

(49:54):
done to help? I know that you've, obviously you're on this podcast, you've been on others and you've
done some social media stuff. So what's the current outlook? And how can people help try to make sure
that this doesn't keep happening? Yeah, so my program, it's called Boise Girls Academy,
you can look it up, they're still up and running. There's still girls there that I know that I was

(50:17):
there with. Unfortunately, in terms of a legal sense, one, I don't have money for a lawyer or
an attorney, two, I'm not educated in that department, nor are many people in this world.
And three, they have a lot of protection from the church. And they fly so under the radar,

(50:37):
like at my facility, there was no like physical beating or anything. So it's so hard to create
a case against them. That at this point, the best thing we can do is just share. And that's why I
continue to share. If you listen to this podcast, or you listen to another podcast, share, share,
share, share, share, because it is going to be way easier and more attainable to cut down their

(51:05):
customer supply of parents and kids than to get them shut down legally. All we can do at this point
is spread the word so that parents are reached and parents are educated and parents are protected
from the initial brainwashing of those programs. And if nobody is applying there, they're going to

(51:26):
lose their money source and they're going to shut down. And I think that is the most attainable way
to create change. And I mean, you know, Paris Hilton is talking about these programs and there's
been two Netflix documentaries that have come out. My transporters are actually in the Netflix
documentary, the program. I watched it and I was like, holy shit, that's the guy that took me from

(51:50):
my bedroom. Yeah, so I definitely think, I mean, a lot of people had never heard of this stuff and
it's definitely becoming a bigger topic. And the more we talk about it, the more I think that once
I'm older, I think this is going to be a thing of the past, like one of those things that we look

(52:10):
back on and we're like, how the fuck did we ever let that happen? Like, how was that allowed?
I hope to live to see the day that at least my program is no longer running, because
that's crazy. Absolutely. Yeah, you've shared a lot there. And just like I mentioned to you before

(52:33):
we even started, I never like to end things on a serious, on a deep note. So are you ready for some
less deep questions? Yes, absolutely. Although based off of some of our conversation, I feel
like the first question I had, maybe a little deeper than I thought, but I know that you're

(52:53):
a tattoo artist now. You spent so much time in your younger years, not being able to express
yourself, at times not even being able to ask the question why. So I thought it would be interesting,
given that you're a tattoo artist, for you to tell us just a little bit about some of your
tattoos and what they mean. It's not a visual podcast, but you're welcome to talk about them.

(53:21):
Yeah, so I'll go through a couple. I have the one on my wrist that I showed you from before
is from that story of that girl who's wearing the paper crown and really only wanted to talk to me
and we just had that sweet moment. So I designed kind of like a where the wild things are type
girl because that kid is wearing the paper crown the whole time. And it just has question marks

(53:45):
coming down from the side. So that's just kind of in memorial of that. I have a butterfly on my arm
that I drew when I was 15. And that one's actually a funny story. When I was in program, I remembered
that drawing and I was like, oh, I need to find that because I want that to be my first tattoo.
And the first day that I met with my friend Annie at that coffee shop, she opened her phone and a

(54:09):
screenshot of that picture was her home screen. And I was like, where'd you find that? Like, I need it.
Can you send it to me? And she was like, yeah, I want this to be my first tattoo. And I was like,
you're kidding me. So now we have the matching and they're just traced from my childhood.
And then I have, have you ever seen Bojack Horseman? I've heard of that one. I have three Bojack

(54:32):
characters on my arm. I have Gina and Charlotte and Bojack's mom, Gina. She records like a movie
with Bojack and he strangles her and she chooses to tell the news that it was fake so that she
isn't known as the girl who that happened to. Like she just wants to forward her career.

(54:58):
Charlotte is like Bojack's first love, but that's actually pretty dark. I'll skip over that.
This one is Bojack's mom and basically her son dies and she has a surgery to remove the part of
her brain that she's like, is able to love. So like, I have like the scar on her head. I just

(55:22):
feel like those relate to me so heavily. And then on my legs, I have a tattoo for Danny on the back
of my neck. And then I also have a tattoo on my leg. It's, I can't really get it up there,
but it's a deer with like vulture wings. And just to signify that. And then we also had like

(55:45):
a really weird day together about a month before she passed. And the number three was really like
resonating in my head. And I turned my car around that night and there was three deer standing in
front of my car. And I like stepped on my pedal to make them go away. And I swear to God, completely
sober, they lined up in like a reindeer carriage formation in front of me and walked me out of my

(56:06):
neighborhood. And then seeing the deer the night that she passed. And now like there have been so
many times where I'm like talking to her in my car and a deer just like shows up. And I'm like,
okay. Like one day I was like, Danny, like, I don't know if you remember what it feels like to be a
human, but like you have to understand that it's hard for me to know. Like if you can hear me when
I'm talking to you, like I would love like just a clear sign. And I was almost joking. And then

(56:31):
that night I went out on my boyfriend's yard and there was three deer just like standing in the
yard. And I was like, okay, like I get it. Yeah, that's like a lot of my meaningful ones. This,
my right thigh is mostly dedicated to my brother. He makes music. His first single was released

(56:51):
in honor of me. And he played it for me on my birthday when I was in Idaho. So that was really
sweet. And now like when he releases new albums, I tattoo them on my leg because he's very talented.
That's really, really cool. Yeah. I love that. Last part of it is kind of a fun little game.
And that's a game I called the realities of Zoom podcast. Because, you know, obviously

(57:17):
the world of Zoom, you know, we can show exactly what we want to show while we are podcasting.
Most of this is not, you know, no one sees it. So, you know, I've had people in very, very
interesting situations while we are podcasting. So are you willing to answer a few questions about

(57:37):
your current Zoom environment? Absolutely. All right. Any, they're pretty easy, but any of them
you can pass on. On my world, I can see everything pretty well because you even got a mirror behind
you. I do. But are you using a computer or using a phone to talk? I am using, my brother likes to

(58:00):
game and he records music. So I'm in his room and I'm using a dual monitor computer with a webcam
and a microphone. All right. Well, the next question is a pretty, pretty easy one and it's not going to
be anything too crazy. So you, since you're using a computer, is it where it should be? You know,
a lot of people prop up a phone or they have to put their computer on a box. Is it on a computer

(58:24):
stand? Yeah, it's on a desk. He has this nicely set up. I didn't do any of this. I love it. Is
there any, has there been any animals present while we were talking that didn't get the
15 minutes of fame? Yes. Our cat Felix is sitting on the bed behind me over here. There he is.
Oh, there he is. I love that. And a big base is behind you too. Yeah, there's a drum set.

(58:49):
Like an actual stand up base. Yeah. Standing base in the corner, drum set over here, entire set,
piano. And then we have a few guitars and yes, we're very musical. Our time is up.
We're a very musical, artistic, inclined family. I love it. And this is one that I kind of see as
well. I've seen your, your Jaguar, your Jaguar pants, your pants, but this is a very professional

(59:16):
podcast. You came to this professional Zoom. Did you at least, are you wearing shoes to the podcast
or at least socks while we are talking? No, you are not. No, I'm not. My dogs are out. Last question
is, and this one, again, I can see your entire room, but if you were to show a 360, is the room

(59:38):
in a state that you would be embarrassed about? No, because it's not my room, but also your
brother's room. It's pretty clean right now. It's looking good. The Legos in the back. The bed's not made.
The bed's not made. The bed's not made, but there's a cat on it. So I feel like that makes up for that.
Well, that's the, that's the entirety of a podcast reality is that you, you answer them all and you,

(01:00:00):
you did it in good humor. So I appreciate that. Thank you. Of course. I appreciate it.
Last question is just, how can people connect with you? How can people, you know, learn more
about your story? You're welcome to shout out the other podcast. I had a mental lapse of remembering
what the podcast was called. I'm not, I'm not trying to be like the podcast that shall not be
named, but we haven't said what it is. Yeah. So I was on the podcast, was I in a cult? It's on

(01:00:26):
Spotify, Apple music, et cetera. I definitely have gone into more detail here, but that's just kind
of a good overall thing. In terms of relating to me and finding me, I have Instagram, TikTok.
Those are the two main ones that I use. My username is kind of hard. It's

(01:00:48):
like it's sandbox boy, but all the O's are zeros. I'll put your username in the description. You
don't have to get too wild with that. And then if you're in California and you want to tattoo,
my tattoo account is tats.by.lee, L-I, on Instagram. And you can book with me through there,

(01:01:11):
little promo. I love that. Yeah. So yeah, I'm currently tattooing.
Well, there's a lot of good places to connect with you. No, I appreciate it. I just want to
take that last note. You said that you went into more detail here. So are you saying that if you
had to pick, this would be the better one to listen to? I mean, we've got more detail. We've

(01:01:32):
got a little more stories and I mean, it's further in the future. No, I'm just kidding with you. No,
it's been an absolute pleasure. I really, really appreciate your time. Thank you. Me too. Thank you
for having me. It's been great. I love talking about it. Absolutely. So that was the conclusion
of my conversation with Leah Kasabian. Just an honor to speak with her and really, really honored

(01:01:58):
that she decided to share her story with me and in turn with you guys. She spent almost three
hours speaking with me about her experiences both before, during, and after her time at Teen
Challenge. It was a really scary, a traumatic experience. So to share that is never an easy

(01:02:23):
thing. But I know that she does it because she wants to make sure that other people don't have
to experience it. So thank you, Leah, for being here. Like I mentioned before, this conversation
was almost three hours long. So she was just so gracious with her time. And I think that we got

(01:02:44):
a really detailed look at her story. Her story is just getting started. She's a young person who
has great things coming up. I know that she's not going to be defined by her past, whether it's the
troubled teen side of things that certainly didn't deserve the things that happened to her. And

(01:03:07):
she's definitely not defined by what did happen to her there. So I urge you to follow along with
Leah. The links to her social media will be in the show notes. She is a tattoo artist now. So
like she said, if you're in the California area, certainly go check her out. Yeah, if this is you
for some listening to this podcast, I know that some of Leah's friends followed along in that

(01:03:33):
first episode. Hope you're back for episode two. Hope you continue listening to some other episodes
from the past. A lot of great guests in the past. You can follow along on Appland on Spotify. Leave
that five star review. That helps a lot. Follow on Instagram, not enough podcasts. I just address
Leah's friends, but of course that's anyone who has not done those things before. Helps out a lot.

(01:03:58):
But thank you for being here. Leah, thank you for being here as well. We'll see you next week.
Take it away, Chris. This has been Not in a Huff with Jackson Huff. Thank you for listening.
Be sure to join us next time where we will interview another amazing guest who is sure to
make you laugh or make you think or hey, maybe even both. But until then keep being awesome.