November 17, 2024 • 19 mins
What if the government is hiding reverse-engineered technology from unidentified flying objects? We take you through the hushed corridors of power with figures like Vice Admiral Thomas Wilson, who reportedly uncovered covert initiatives during a crucial meeting with Dr. Eric Davis. These revelations come to life as we spotlight the Advanced Theoretical Physics Working Group (ATP), a collective of intelligence insiders, scientists, and defense contractors, who were not just intrigued by UFOs but actively on the hunt for hidden programs and technologies. Through the lens of James Shannon's invaluable notes, we piece together the clandestine puzzle of government secrecy and UFO research.
The journey doesn't stop at technology. The ATP's exploration stretched into the psychic realm, incorporating everything from remote viewing to quantum physics. Influential voices like Dr. Ferris Williams, General Albert Stubblebine, and Ed Dames bring a multidisciplinary approach, merging scientific inquiry with paranormal phenomena. Grasp the extent of their inquiries as we challenge conventional wisdom and endure skepticism, diving deep into our understanding of consciousness and the universe. This episode invites you to ponder the profound questions that linger at the confluence of science, government intrigue, and the unexplained.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, Buckle up everybody, because we're about
to take a deep dive into someseriously fascinating territory.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Oh, I like where this is going, always up for a good
deep dive.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Yeah well, you guys wanted it, so here we go
Government involvement in UFOsand exotic technology straight
from the source.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We talking about those leaked documents again.
I gotta say those always makefor a good read.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
You know it, we're cracking open loose threads,
this collection of declassifiedmemos, leap notes, insider
interviews, the whole nine yards.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Okay, loose threads, I'm familiar with that one.
What's the angle for today'sdeep dive?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Well, it's not just theories and speculation here.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Right.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
It's like boom firsthand accounts, documents,
real deal stuff offering aglimpse into this.
You know super secret worldthat's been hidden for like
decades.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Like, peeking behind the curtain always gets the
adrenaline pumping.
What's got you hooked this time?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
One of the most intriguing groups we're going to
encounter in Loose Threads isthis thing called the Advanced
Theoretical Physics WorkingGroup ATP for short.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
ATP.
Ok, I'm listening.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
This wasn't just some boring academic think tank.
We're talking intelligenceofficials, defense contractors,
scientists, big brains allcoming together back in the 80s
seemingly all about those UFOs.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
And why wouldn't they be?
Ufos are where it's at, so whatwere they up to Just observing
from afar?
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Not even close.
Loose threads suggest they wereactively searching for hidden
government programs, onesrelated to UFOs, of course.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Oh, so they weren't just stargazers, they were
looking for the real deal, thehidden tech.
I like it.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Exactly Like they wanted to get their hands on
that technology and understandit.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Ambitious, for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
And get this.
As we go through these loosethreads, we start seeing
familiar names popping upeverywhere Dr Eric Davis,
astronaut Edgar Mitchell.
You know folks who've beenpretty vocal about their belief
in government UFO programs.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Uh-huh, it all starts to connect A hidden network of
UFO believers in high places.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
It really does Like tracing a hidden network of
individuals and organizationsall connected by this, like
intense curiosity about UFOs.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Gotta have that curiosity right Keeps things
interesting.
So what's one of the biggestreveals in Loose Threads?
Give me the juicy stuff.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Oh, I've got something juicy for you Right
off the bat.
Loose Threads drops thisbombshell account of Dr Eric
Davis meeting with Vice AdmiralThomas Wilson back in 2002.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Okay, admiral Wilson, big name, what went down?
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Wilson straight up reveals to Davis that he
stumbled upon this hiddenreverse engineering program,
black budget operation, thewhole shebang dealing with
something, well, somethingpretty extraordinary.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Hold up Reverse engineering.
You say, now that's interestingAlien technology.
Perhaps this is getting good.
That's the million dollarquestion.
Perhaps this is getting good.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
That's the million dollar question, right.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
You bet it is what was being reverse engineered.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Well loose threads doesn't explicitly confirm what
it was exactly.
Ugh the suspense.
But Wilson's revelation kind ofpoints to the existence of a
program operating outside normaloversight, potentially dealing
with technology of unknownorigin.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Unknown origin.
Gotta love that it just screamsUFOs, doesn't it?
So this program was runningunder the radar, possibly
playing with alien tech.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
And here's the kicker Wilson told Davis that this
whole secret, this whole program, it was leaked by someone from
within the ATP.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
No way.
Someone on the inside spilledthe beans.
So we've got a high-rankingadmiral uncovering a hidden
program, and he points rightback to the ATP.
It's like a puzzle box.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
And every time you open it there's another layer of
intrigue.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Who talked?
What did they say?
This is getting juicy, spillthe beans.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Well, that's where James Shannon enters the scene.
He was like a VIP in the ATPand his notes gold, pure gold.
Think of it like finding adiary packed with cryptic clues
and secret messages.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
A diary huh From one of the insiders.
That's like striking gold.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Right, and the fact that Wilson specifically
mentioned Shannon yeah, he knewsomething about these hidden
programs no doubt Held a key tothis whole mystery.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
So Shannon's notes.
They're like a window into theworld of UFO secrets.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Exactly and hold on.
This wasn't just some latenight story swap.
Multiple sources back up theWilson Davis meeting Dr Stephen
Greer, Admiral Wilson himself.
This was serious talk at thehighest levels.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
People at the top were whispering about UFO
programs.
Man, they were trying to keepsomething under wraps, but what?
Why?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Now let's backtrack a bit to those ATP meetings.
They were secretive held insecure facilities, often at this
defense contractor called BDM,Not your typical science club
meeting.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
BDM, bdm rings a bell .
Weren't they involved in somepretty high-tech stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
You got it Military intelligence scientists,
aerospace industry, all unitedby their fascination with UFOs.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
A mix of brains and brawn all focused on those
enigmatic flying objects.
Gotta love it.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
And yeah, about those meetings at BDM.
They were a defense contractorwith some serious expertise
Electromagnetic generation andcontrol.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Ooh, now that's interesting.
Electromagnetism Some saythat's the key to UFO propulsion
.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Right.
They were working on advancedradar systems studying the
effects of electromagneticpulses, even imaging objects in
space.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Wait a minute, hold on.
So this group, the ATP, they'remeeting at a place with
top-notch expertise inelectromagnetism.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
And electromagnetism might just be the secret sauce
behind UFOs.
Pure coincidence?
I don't think so.
There's got to be a connection.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
It makes you think right.
Was the ATP's interest in UFOsjust a passing fancy, or were
they trying to figure out how,to you know, mess with these
objects using fancy tech?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Clues Threads leaves us hanging on that one.
Were they just theorizing, orwere they getting hands on,
trying to crack the code of UFOtech?
The document's a tease, butit's a good tease.
So what else does Loose Threadshave up its sleeve?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Well, Loose Threads introduces us to this researcher
named Bob Ochler.
Late 80s, early 90s, he makes abold move, reaches out to some
of the highest rankingintelligence officials in the
country.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
He went straight to the top.
That's a power move.
What was he after?
Speaker 1 (06:00):
He wanted the truth about recovered UFO technology,
nothing less.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Wow, that's some serious detective work.
So who did he talk to?
Speaker 1 (06:06):
And these weren't just any officials.
We're talking Admiral Bobby RayInman, former director of naval
intelligence, r Evans Heineman,the CIA's deputy director for
science and technology.
Even Rear Admiral SumnerShapiro, another former director
of naval intelligence.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
He wasn't messing around Straight to the big
leagues.
So what did he learn?
Did they fess up about thoserecovered UFO goodies?
Speaker 1 (06:28):
That's where it gets even more interesting.
These officials.
They denied knowing anythingabout UFO programs.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Ah, the classic denial.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
But their responses, evasive, ambiguous, left Ochler
and us with more questions thananswers.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
So they were playing coy, acknowledging the
sensitivity without spilling thebeans, classic intelligence
move.
Give me an example, I'm hooked.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
For instance Iman claims he's clueless about UFO
matters.
Right.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
But then he sends Ochler to Heinemann, the guy who
oversaw a super classifiedsatellite program.
It's like a breadcrumb trailleading to who knows what.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
A secret satellite program.
Huh, Definitely sounds likethey were hiding something big,
Even at the highest levels,those whispers of hidden
programs it's like they wereplaying a game of shadows.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
It really is.
What were they so afraid ofrevealing?
Why all the secrecy?
This whole thing feels like agiant game of cat and mouse,
where every answer just leads tomore questions.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
And that's what makes Loose Threads so addictive.
It doesn't spoon feed you theanswers.
It throws a tangled web ofevents, people and ideas at you,
and then it's like figure itout yourself.
We're left piecing together thepuzzle, and with every piece,
the bigger picture gets moreintriguing.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
It's like we're working on a giant jigsaw puzzle
.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
And every time you think you found a corner piece,
a whole new section appears.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
And that, my friend, is why we love these deep dives.
Always more to uncover, alwaysmore to explore, All right back
for more of this loose threadsaction.
So we were talking about BobOchler and his run-ins with
those top intelligence guys.
All those evasive answers, it'slike one tiny piece of a giant
(08:03):
puzzle.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Right, it's like they knew something but weren't
about to spill the beans.
This makes you want to digdeeper, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Oh yeah, the mystery just deepens and as we keep
going through loose threads itshifts gears a bit Less about
hunting for those hiddenprograms and more about, well,
the pursuit of something evencooler exotic technology.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Exotic tech.
Okay, I'm intrigued.
Lay it on me.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Remember the ATP wasn't just a bunch of UFO
fanatics.
These were serious players likeDr Hal Puthoff, Brilliant guy.
He later founded Earth TechInternational, a whole
organization focused on advancedspace propulsion and energy
sources.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Earth tech Okay, I've heard that name thrown around,
so they were dealing with somenext level science stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
You bet and loose threads hints that they weren't
just theorizing about theseadvanced technologies.
They were actually trying tofigure them out, maybe even
inspired by what they learnedabout UFOs, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
So it's not just about finding those hidden
government programs anymore.
It's about trying to copy oreven improve on the technology
these UFOs might have ExactlyCracking the code of UFO tech.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
And that's where another big player steps onto
the scene Dr Christopher KittGreen, medical doctor, former
CIA officer and a total UFOenthusiast.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
A doctor and a spy.
That's an interesting combo.
What was his deal?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
He was all about the effects of UFOs on humans.
Even wrote a paper for theDIA's AAWSAP program Outlined
all these ideas about reverseengineering, ufo tech based on
the injuries people got fromencountering them.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Hold up, wait a minute.
They were looking at how UFOencounters mess people up to try
and understand the technology.
That's some next level thinkingright there.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Right.
It's like they were trying todecode the UFO blueprints by
looking at the side effects, andloose threads suggest this
wasn't just a random idea.
It was a whole research area,probably fueled by the desire to
not just watch these UFOs butto figure out how they worked,
maybe even build their ownversions.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Okay, so far we've got secret programs, super
advanced tech, and now we'retalking about reverse
engineering based on alieninjuries.
Loose Threads has taken us downa rabbit hole, and I kind of
like it.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Oh, it gets even weirder.
Loose Threads throws out thisalmost unbelievable concept UFO
baiting.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
UFO baiting you mean like purposely trying to attract
UFOs.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
That sounds like something out of a movie.
I know right, but Loose Threadsmakes a case for it.
Luis Elizondo, the former headof AATIP.
He confirms that UFO baitingactually happened during his
time there.
And then there's filmmakerJeremy Korbel.
He claims that UFOs areroutinely baited and that it
often works.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Ok, that is mind blowing, butwhy would they do that?
What's the point of trying toattract UFOs?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Good question.
There are a few ideas floatingaround.
Maybe they wanted to get upclose and personal with these
things, to really study them, ormaybe even try to communicate.
Or maybe they were hoping forsome kind of tech swap
intentional or not, loosethreads doesn't really give a
straight answer, but it opens upa whole new world of
possibilities.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
It's like they were playing some cosmic game of hide
and seek, trying to lure thesemysterious objects into the open
.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
But the big question remains what were they hoping to
get out of it?
Well, loose Threads dives intoone pretty interesting theory
about UFO baiting.
That involves something calledanti-neutrino maps.
Now there's this researchernamed Tim McMillan who suggests
that these maps could be used tofind remote locations where
UFOs hang out kind of like thebest fishing spots for UFOs, if
(11:30):
you will.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Okay, anti-neutrinos that's a new one for me.
Can we break this down a bit?
What do these things have to dowith UFOs?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
It's a little complicated, but loose threads
makes a pretty strong connection.
Remember those B2 detectorsthat kept popping up in Oki
Shannon's note?
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah, they were a bit of a head-scratcher.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Right.
Well, the authors of loosethreads think those detectors
were built to pick up onsomething unique that UFOs give
off, maybe even theseantineutrinos.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
So like a UFO radar.
That's pretty clever if youthink about it.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Right and loose threads goes on.
To connect this to anotherpiece of the puzzle Shannon's
mentor, dr Ferris Williams.
He was super into research onneutron disintegration, even
thought it might have somethingto do with how things move.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
So they were looking at the tiniest building blocks
of matter, trying to figure outhow UFOs might be bending the
rules of physics to pull offthose crazy maneuvers.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Exactly, and don't forget those ATP meetings.
A lot of them were at BDM, aplace that knew a lot about
nuclear tech andelectromagnetism, so it's not
that crazy to think they mighthave been looking for ways to
spot or even mess with UFOsbased on these antineutrino
emissions.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
This antineutrino stuff is definitely out there.
Even for me, it's like we'restepping into a world where
physics and well, something elseentirely start to overlap.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
It's a wild ride, that's for sure.
Loose Threads takes us on atrip where science fiction and
reality get kind of blurry.
It makes you wonder were theATP and whoever came after them
just trying to learn about UFOs,or were they reaching for
something bigger, something thatcould change the way we do
things, even the way weunderstand the universe?
Speaker 1 (13:03):
And maybe even more importantly, what happened to
all their work after the ATPshut down?
Did it just disappear or did itmorph into something even more
secretive?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Those are the questions Loose Threads leaves
us with Big questions thatreally make you think, and as we
head into the final part ofthis deep dive, we're going to
explore even more of thosethought-provoking twists and
turns, Buckle up Back again forthe final stretch of our loose
threads.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Deep dive.
We've been talking about theATP, that fascinating group that
brought together all thosegovernment folks, scientists and
defense contractors, all unitedby that burning curiosity about
UFOs.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, it's been a wild ride.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
So far Right, and we saw how they weren't content
with just observing these things.
They were actively searchingfor hidden programs, exploring
advanced technologies, evendabbled in UFO baiting.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
They were definitely pushing the limit.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Totally Like they were trying to rewrite the rules
of technology, even ourunderstanding of the universe
itself.
But there's another layer tothis story, a thread that runs
through loose threads andconnects the ATP to something
that many consider even moremysterious Psychic phenomena.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Psychic phenomena.
Okay, now we're getting intosome really uncharted territory.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Right.
It's fascinating how loosethreads wheeze this thread into
the whole narrative.
Remember we're talking aboutthe 80s.
Back then, things like remoteviewing and ESP they were pretty
hot topics, even in governmentcircles.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
I guess they were open to all sorts of
possibilities back then.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Totally.
And one figure who reallybridged those two worlds was
General Albert Stubblebine.
We mentioned him before inconnection with the ATP meetings
at BDM.
He wasn't just open to psychicabilities, he was a true
believer, thought they could beused for intelligence gathering,
even for interacting with UFOs.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
So they were looking at psychic powers as a way to
actually connect with these UFOs.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Loose Threads.
Has this intriguing story aboutStubblebine trying to question
Dr Stephen Greer, you know, thefounder of Sassetti?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I know Greer.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
He wanted to know about Greer's experiences with
UFOs and contact withextraterrestrial beings.
According to Greer, stubblebinewas really interested in
whether Greer's group could usepsychic abilities to like track
UFOs.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
So they weren't just stargazing, they were looking
for ways to use psychic powersto actually find these objects.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
It's like they were looking everywhere for answers,
even in places that seemed wella little out there.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
It's like they threw out the rulebook and said let's
try everything.
So was Stubblebine the only oneinterested in this psychic
tracking stuff?
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Not at all.
Loose Threads tells us that oneof the presenters at the very
first ATP meeting was Ed Dames,former military intelligence
officer.
He went on to found PSI Tech, aremote viewing company.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Wait a minute.
They had a remote viewer attheir first meeting.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, dames even claimed his team had used remote
viewing to locate a secret UFOsite and were working on reverse
engineering alien technology.
Even hinted at contracts totransfer this tech to aerospace
companies.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Hold on Reverse engineering, alien tech using
remote viewing?
Now that's a wild claim.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
It is Whether you believe, dames, or not.
His presence at that firstmeeting shows that the ATP was
definitely willing to considersome pretty unconventional ideas
.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
It was a different time back then, for sure.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Right, and it's not like they were ignoring
mainstream science either.
The ATP had folks like Dr HalPuthoff Along with his research
into advanced propulsion andenergy sources, he was also
super into remote viewing.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Puthoff, right the Earth tech guy.
They were doing some pretty farout research.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah, Earth tech was all over the place Quantum
vacuum, new theories ofelectromagnetism, interstellar
travel.
They were pushing theboundaries in all sorts of ways.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
So they were juggling cutting edge science with
psychic phenomena.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Exactly Like they were building a puzzle with
pieces from totally differentboxes.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
That's a pretty unique approach, key player in
the ATP.
So it all ties together.
(17:15):
Government, science, themilitary and the paranormal all
come in together in this questto understand UFOs.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Exactly this convergence of people from
different backgrounds, withdifferent expertise, all drawn
to the mystery of UFOs.
It's like they were creating awhole new way of looking at this
phenomenon, one that blendedcutting edge science with the
willingness to explore theunknown.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
And loose threads doesn't shy away from the big
questions.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
It sure doesn't.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
If psychic abilities are real and if they can be used
to interact with UFOs.
What does that say about us,About consciousness, about the
limits of human perception?
It makes you questioneverything you thought you knew
about reality.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Definitely makes you think, and that's what makes
loose threads so captivating.
It doesn't just tell a story.
It pulls you into a world ofmystery, intrigue, a world where
our understanding of theuniverse might be far greater
than we ever imagined.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Makes you realize just how much is still out there
, hidden in the shadows.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
So, as we wrap up our deep dive into Loose Threads,
what are we left with?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Well, it's clear that the ATP was more than just a
UFO fan club.
These were serious people fromall walks of life, operating at
the highest levels, and theirinterest in UFOs went way beyond
just curiosity.
They were looking for answers,exploring wild technologies and
even tapping into the world ofpsychic phenomena.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Loose threads really forces us to rethink what we
know about UFOs.
The truth might be far stranger, far more complex than we ever
thought.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
It's a testament to the power of curiosity, that
drive to learn even when you'refacing secrecy.
Ridicule the unknown.
It's what keeps us going.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
It's a wild ride through a world of secrets,
intrigue and the mystery of UFOs.
It reminds us there's so muchwe still don't know, so many
unanswered questions.
Thanks for joining us on thisdeep dive.
Keep those minds open, folkswho knows?
All right, Buckle up everybody, because we're about
to take a deep dive into someseriously fascinating territory.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Oh, I like where this is going, always up for a good
deep dive.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Yeah well, you guys wanted it, so here we go
Government involvement in UFOsand exotic technology straight
from the source.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We talking about those leaked documents again.
I gotta say those always makefor a good read.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
You know it, we're cracking open loose threads,
this collection of declassifiedmemos, leap notes, insider
interviews, the whole nine yards.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Okay, loose threads, I'm familiar with that one.
What's the angle for today'sdeep dive?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Well, it's not just theories and speculation here.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Right.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
It's like boom firsthand accounts, documents,
real deal stuff offering aglimpse into this.
You know super secret worldthat's been hidden for like
decades.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Like, peeking behind the curtain always gets the
adrenaline pumping.
What's got you hooked this time?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
One of the most intriguing groups we're going to
encounter in Loose Threads isthis thing called the Advanced
Theoretical Physics WorkingGroup ATP for short.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
ATP.
Ok, I'm listening.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
This wasn't just some boring academic think tank.
We're talking intelligenceofficials, defense contractors,
scientists, big brains allcoming together back in the 80s
seemingly all about those UFOs.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
And why wouldn't they be?
Ufos are where it's at, so whatwere they up to Just observing
from afar?
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Not even close.
Loose threads suggest they wereactively searching for hidden
government programs, onesrelated to UFOs, of course.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Oh, so they weren't just stargazers, they were
looking for the real deal, thehidden tech.
I like it.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Exactly Like they wanted to get their hands on
that technology and understandit.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Ambitious, for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
And get this.
As we go through these loosethreads, we start seeing
familiar names popping upeverywhere Dr Eric Davis,
astronaut Edgar Mitchell.
You know folks who've beenpretty vocal about their belief
in government UFO programs.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Uh-huh, it all starts to connect A hidden network of
UFO believers in high places.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
It really does Like tracing a hidden network of
individuals and organizationsall connected by this, like
intense curiosity about UFOs.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Gotta have that curiosity right Keeps things
interesting.
So what's one of the biggestreveals in Loose Threads?
Give me the juicy stuff.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Oh, I've got something juicy for you Right
off the bat.
Loose Threads drops thisbombshell account of Dr Eric
Davis meeting with Vice AdmiralThomas Wilson back in 2002.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Okay, admiral Wilson, big name, what went down?
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Wilson straight up reveals to Davis that he
stumbled upon this hiddenreverse engineering program,
black budget operation, thewhole shebang dealing with
something, well, somethingpretty extraordinary.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Hold up Reverse engineering.
You say, now that's interestingAlien technology.
Perhaps this is getting good.
That's the million dollarquestion.
Perhaps this is getting good.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
That's the million dollar question, right.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
You bet it is what was being reverse engineered.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Well loose threads doesn't explicitly confirm what
it was exactly.
Ugh the suspense.
But Wilson's revelation kind ofpoints to the existence of a
program operating outside normaloversight, potentially dealing
with technology of unknownorigin.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Unknown origin.
Gotta love that it just screamsUFOs, doesn't it?
So this program was runningunder the radar, possibly
playing with alien tech.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
And here's the kicker Wilson told Davis that this
whole secret, this whole program, it was leaked by someone from
within the ATP.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
No way.
Someone on the inside spilledthe beans.
So we've got a high-rankingadmiral uncovering a hidden
program, and he points rightback to the ATP.
It's like a puzzle box.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
And every time you open it there's another layer of
intrigue.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Who talked?
What did they say?
This is getting juicy, spillthe beans.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Well, that's where James Shannon enters the scene.
He was like a VIP in the ATPand his notes gold, pure gold.
Think of it like finding adiary packed with cryptic clues
and secret messages.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
A diary huh From one of the insiders.
That's like striking gold.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Right, and the fact that Wilson specifically
mentioned Shannon yeah, he knewsomething about these hidden
programs no doubt Held a key tothis whole mystery.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
So Shannon's notes.
They're like a window into theworld of UFO secrets.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Exactly and hold on.
This wasn't just some latenight story swap.
Multiple sources back up theWilson Davis meeting Dr Stephen
Greer, Admiral Wilson himself.
This was serious talk at thehighest levels.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
People at the top were whispering about UFO
programs.
Man, they were trying to keepsomething under wraps, but what?
Why?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Now let's backtrack a bit to those ATP meetings.
They were secretive held insecure facilities, often at this
defense contractor called BDM,Not your typical science club
meeting.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
BDM, bdm rings a bell .
Weren't they involved in somepretty high-tech stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
You got it Military intelligence scientists,
aerospace industry, all unitedby their fascination with UFOs.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
A mix of brains and brawn all focused on those
enigmatic flying objects.
Gotta love it.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
And yeah, about those meetings at BDM.
They were a defense contractorwith some serious expertise
Electromagnetic generation andcontrol.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Ooh, now that's interesting.
Electromagnetism Some saythat's the key to UFO propulsion
.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Right.
They were working on advancedradar systems studying the
effects of electromagneticpulses, even imaging objects in
space.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Wait a minute, hold on.
So this group, the ATP, they'remeeting at a place with
top-notch expertise inelectromagnetism.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
And electromagnetism might just be the secret sauce
behind UFOs.
Pure coincidence?
I don't think so.
There's got to be a connection.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
It makes you think right.
Was the ATP's interest in UFOsjust a passing fancy, or were
they trying to figure out how,to you know, mess with these
objects using fancy tech?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Clues Threads leaves us hanging on that one.
Were they just theorizing, orwere they getting hands on,
trying to crack the code of UFOtech?
The document's a tease, butit's a good tease.
So what else does Loose Threadshave up its sleeve?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Well, Loose Threads introduces us to this researcher
named Bob Ochler.
Late 80s, early 90s, he makes abold move, reaches out to some
of the highest rankingintelligence officials in the
country.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
He went straight to the top.
That's a power move.
What was he after?
Speaker 1 (06:00):
He wanted the truth about recovered UFO technology,
nothing less.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Wow, that's some serious detective work.
So who did he talk to?
Speaker 1 (06:06):
And these weren't just any officials.
We're talking Admiral Bobby RayInman, former director of naval
intelligence, r Evans Heineman,the CIA's deputy director for
science and technology.
Even Rear Admiral SumnerShapiro, another former director
of naval intelligence.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
He wasn't messing around Straight to the big
leagues.
So what did he learn?
Did they fess up about thoserecovered UFO goodies?
Speaker 1 (06:28):
That's where it gets even more interesting.
These officials.
They denied knowing anythingabout UFO programs.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Ah, the classic denial.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
But their responses, evasive, ambiguous, left Ochler
and us with more questions thananswers.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
So they were playing coy, acknowledging the
sensitivity without spilling thebeans, classic intelligence
move.
Give me an example, I'm hooked.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
For instance Iman claims he's clueless about UFO
matters.
Right.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
But then he sends Ochler to Heinemann, the guy who
oversaw a super classifiedsatellite program.
It's like a breadcrumb trailleading to who knows what.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
A secret satellite program.
Huh, Definitely sounds likethey were hiding something big,
Even at the highest levels,those whispers of hidden
programs it's like they wereplaying a game of shadows.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
It really is.
What were they so afraid ofrevealing?
Why all the secrecy?
This whole thing feels like agiant game of cat and mouse,
where every answer just leads tomore questions.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
And that's what makes Loose Threads so addictive.
It doesn't spoon feed you theanswers.
It throws a tangled web ofevents, people and ideas at you,
and then it's like figure itout yourself.
We're left piecing together thepuzzle, and with every piece,
the bigger picture gets moreintriguing.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
It's like we're working on a giant jigsaw puzzle
.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
And every time you think you found a corner piece,
a whole new section appears.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
And that, my friend, is why we love these deep dives.
Always more to uncover, alwaysmore to explore, All right back
for more of this loose threadsaction.
So we were talking about BobOchler and his run-ins with
those top intelligence guys.
All those evasive answers, it'slike one tiny piece of a giant
(08:03):
puzzle.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Right, it's like they knew something but weren't
about to spill the beans.
This makes you want to digdeeper, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Oh yeah, the mystery just deepens and as we keep
going through loose threads itshifts gears a bit Less about
hunting for those hiddenprograms and more about, well,
the pursuit of something evencooler exotic technology.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Exotic tech.
Okay, I'm intrigued.
Lay it on me.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Remember the ATP wasn't just a bunch of UFO
fanatics.
These were serious players likeDr Hal Puthoff, Brilliant guy.
He later founded Earth TechInternational, a whole
organization focused on advancedspace propulsion and energy
sources.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Earth tech Okay, I've heard that name thrown around,
so they were dealing with somenext level science stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
You bet and loose threads hints that they weren't
just theorizing about theseadvanced technologies.
They were actually trying tofigure them out, maybe even
inspired by what they learnedabout UFOs, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
So it's not just about finding those hidden
government programs anymore.
It's about trying to copy oreven improve on the technology
these UFOs might have ExactlyCracking the code of UFO tech.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
And that's where another big player steps onto
the scene Dr Christopher KittGreen, medical doctor, former
CIA officer and a total UFOenthusiast.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
A doctor and a spy.
That's an interesting combo.
What was his deal?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
He was all about the effects of UFOs on humans.
Even wrote a paper for theDIA's AAWSAP program Outlined
all these ideas about reverseengineering, ufo tech based on
the injuries people got fromencountering them.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Hold up, wait a minute.
They were looking at how UFOencounters mess people up to try
and understand the technology.
That's some next level thinkingright there.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Right.
It's like they were trying todecode the UFO blueprints by
looking at the side effects, andloose threads suggest this
wasn't just a random idea.
It was a whole research area,probably fueled by the desire to
not just watch these UFOs butto figure out how they worked,
maybe even build their ownversions.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Okay, so far we've got secret programs, super
advanced tech, and now we'retalking about reverse
engineering based on alieninjuries.
Loose Threads has taken us downa rabbit hole, and I kind of
like it.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Oh, it gets even weirder.
Loose Threads throws out thisalmost unbelievable concept UFO
baiting.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
UFO baiting you mean like purposely trying to attract
UFOs.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
That sounds like something out of a movie.
I know right, but Loose Threadsmakes a case for it.
Luis Elizondo, the former headof AATIP.
He confirms that UFO baitingactually happened during his
time there.
And then there's filmmakerJeremy Korbel.
He claims that UFOs areroutinely baited and that it
often works.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Ok, that is mind blowing, butwhy would they do that?
What's the point of trying toattract UFOs?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Good question.
There are a few ideas floatingaround.
Maybe they wanted to get upclose and personal with these
things, to really study them, ormaybe even try to communicate.
Or maybe they were hoping forsome kind of tech swap
intentional or not, loosethreads doesn't really give a
straight answer, but it opens upa whole new world of
possibilities.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
It's like they were playing some cosmic game of hide
and seek, trying to lure thesemysterious objects into the open
.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
But the big question remains what were they hoping to
get out of it?
Well, loose Threads dives intoone pretty interesting theory
about UFO baiting.
That involves something calledanti-neutrino maps.
Now there's this researchernamed Tim McMillan who suggests
that these maps could be used tofind remote locations where
UFOs hang out kind of like thebest fishing spots for UFOs, if
(11:30):
you will.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Okay, anti-neutrinos that's a new one for me.
Can we break this down a bit?
What do these things have to dowith UFOs?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
It's a little complicated, but loose threads
makes a pretty strong connection.
Remember those B2 detectorsthat kept popping up in Oki
Shannon's note?
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah, they were a bit of a head-scratcher.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Right.
Well, the authors of loosethreads think those detectors
were built to pick up onsomething unique that UFOs give
off, maybe even theseantineutrinos.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
So like a UFO radar.
That's pretty clever if youthink about it.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Right and loose threads goes on.
To connect this to anotherpiece of the puzzle Shannon's
mentor, dr Ferris Williams.
He was super into research onneutron disintegration, even
thought it might have somethingto do with how things move.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
So they were looking at the tiniest building blocks
of matter, trying to figure outhow UFOs might be bending the
rules of physics to pull offthose crazy maneuvers.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Exactly, and don't forget those ATP meetings.
A lot of them were at BDM, aplace that knew a lot about
nuclear tech andelectromagnetism, so it's not
that crazy to think they mighthave been looking for ways to
spot or even mess with UFOsbased on these antineutrino
emissions.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
This antineutrino stuff is definitely out there.
Even for me, it's like we'restepping into a world where
physics and well, something elseentirely start to overlap.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
It's a wild ride, that's for sure.
Loose Threads takes us on atrip where science fiction and
reality get kind of blurry.
It makes you wonder were theATP and whoever came after them
just trying to learn about UFOs,or were they reaching for
something bigger, something thatcould change the way we do
things, even the way weunderstand the universe?
Speaker 1 (13:03):
And maybe even more importantly, what happened to
all their work after the ATPshut down?
Did it just disappear or did itmorph into something even more
secretive?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Those are the questions Loose Threads leaves
us with Big questions thatreally make you think, and as we
head into the final part ofthis deep dive, we're going to
explore even more of thosethought-provoking twists and
turns, Buckle up Back again forthe final stretch of our loose
threads.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Deep dive.
We've been talking about theATP, that fascinating group that
brought together all thosegovernment folks, scientists and
defense contractors, all unitedby that burning curiosity about
UFOs.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, it's been a wild ride.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
So far Right, and we saw how they weren't content
with just observing these things.
They were actively searchingfor hidden programs, exploring
advanced technologies, evendabbled in UFO baiting.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
They were definitely pushing the limit.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Totally Like they were trying to rewrite the rules
of technology, even ourunderstanding of the universe
itself.
But there's another layer tothis story, a thread that runs
through loose threads andconnects the ATP to something
that many consider even moremysterious Psychic phenomena.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Psychic phenomena.
Okay, now we're getting intosome really uncharted territory.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Right.
It's fascinating how loosethreads wheeze this thread into
the whole narrative.
Remember we're talking aboutthe 80s.
Back then, things like remoteviewing and ESP they were pretty
hot topics, even in governmentcircles.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
I guess they were open to all sorts of
possibilities back then.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Totally.
And one figure who reallybridged those two worlds was
General Albert Stubblebine.
We mentioned him before inconnection with the ATP meetings
at BDM.
He wasn't just open to psychicabilities, he was a true
believer, thought they could beused for intelligence gathering,
even for interacting with UFOs.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
So they were looking at psychic powers as a way to
actually connect with these UFOs.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Loose Threads.
Has this intriguing story aboutStubblebine trying to question
Dr Stephen Greer, you know, thefounder of Sassetti?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I know Greer.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
He wanted to know about Greer's experiences with
UFOs and contact withextraterrestrial beings.
According to Greer, stubblebinewas really interested in
whether Greer's group could usepsychic abilities to like track
UFOs.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
So they weren't just stargazing, they were looking
for ways to use psychic powersto actually find these objects.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
It's like they were looking everywhere for answers,
even in places that seemed wella little out there.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
It's like they threw out the rulebook and said let's
try everything.
So was Stubblebine the only oneinterested in this psychic
tracking stuff?
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Not at all.
Loose Threads tells us that oneof the presenters at the very
first ATP meeting was Ed Dames,former military intelligence
officer.
He went on to found PSI Tech, aremote viewing company.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Wait a minute.
They had a remote viewer attheir first meeting.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, dames even claimed his team had used remote
viewing to locate a secret UFOsite and were working on reverse
engineering alien technology.
Even hinted at contracts totransfer this tech to aerospace
companies.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Hold on Reverse engineering, alien tech using
remote viewing?
Now that's a wild claim.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
It is Whether you believe, dames, or not.
His presence at that firstmeeting shows that the ATP was
definitely willing to considersome pretty unconventional ideas
.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
It was a different time back then, for sure.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Right, and it's not like they were ignoring
mainstream science either.
The ATP had folks like Dr HalPuthoff Along with his research
into advanced propulsion andenergy sources, he was also
super into remote viewing.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Puthoff, right the Earth tech guy.
They were doing some pretty farout research.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah, Earth tech was all over the place Quantum
vacuum, new theories ofelectromagnetism, interstellar
travel.
They were pushing theboundaries in all sorts of ways.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
So they were juggling cutting edge science with
psychic phenomena.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Exactly Like they were building a puzzle with
pieces from totally differentboxes.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
That's a pretty unique approach, key player in
the ATP.
So it all ties together.
(17:15):
Government, science, themilitary and the paranormal all
come in together in this questto understand UFOs.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Exactly this convergence of people from
different backgrounds, withdifferent expertise, all drawn
to the mystery of UFOs.
It's like they were creating awhole new way of looking at this
phenomenon, one that blendedcutting edge science with the
willingness to explore theunknown.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
And loose threads doesn't shy away from the big
questions.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
It sure doesn't.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
If psychic abilities are real and if they can be used
to interact with UFOs.
What does that say about us,About consciousness, about the
limits of human perception?
It makes you questioneverything you thought you knew
about reality.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Definitely makes you think, and that's what makes
loose threads so captivating.
It doesn't just tell a story.
It pulls you into a world ofmystery, intrigue, a world where
our understanding of theuniverse might be far greater
than we ever imagined.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Makes you realize just how much is still out there
, hidden in the shadows.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
So, as we wrap up our deep dive into Loose Threads,
what are we left with?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Well, it's clear that the ATP was more than just a
UFO fan club.
These were serious people fromall walks of life, operating at
the highest levels, and theirinterest in UFOs went way beyond
just curiosity.
They were looking for answers,exploring wild technologies and
even tapping into the world ofpsychic phenomena.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Loose threads really forces us to rethink what we
know about UFOs.
The truth might be far stranger, far more complex than we ever
thought.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
It's a testament to the power of curiosity, that
drive to learn even when you'refacing secrecy.
Ridicule the unknown.
It's what keeps us going.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
It's a wild ride through a world of secrets,
intrigue and the mystery of UFOs.
It reminds us there's so muchwe still don't know, so many
unanswered questions.
Thanks for joining us on thisdeep dive.
Keep those minds open, folkswho knows?
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