EP. 49: Navigating Commercial Real Estate in Northwest Arkansas

Discover the blueprint for success in real estate as Matthew Allen, son of the esteemed Tom Allen, joins us to share his captivating journey from banking to becoming a real estate expert. Matthew opens up about the unconventional career paths he explored and the invaluable lessons he absorbed from his father's wisdom. This episode promises insightful revelations on the power of mentorship, the resilience needed to tackle the unpredictable nature of real estate, and the satisfaction of guiding others through their property ventures.

We navigate the complexities and triumphs that come with a career in real estate, touching on Matthew's early achievements and the persistent grind necessary to sustain momentum. From the emotional highs of closing significant deals to the lows of unforeseen obstacles like natural disasters, the conversation delves into the essential mindset for thriving in this ever-evolving industry. Additionally, we explore the distinctions between brokerage and investment, highlighting the continuous effort required to keep prospects active and seize new opportunities.

Finally, we shift our focus to the promising future of urban development in Northwest Arkansas, as Matthew provides an insider's look at the potential growth areas in cities like Rogers, Bentonville, and Fayetteville. With candid discussions on urban aesthetics, infrastructure advancements, and the importance of transparency, this episode is packed with strategies for building a successful real estate career. Whether you're a seasoned professional or just entering the field, you'll gain valuable insights into creating a supportive team, setting realistic expectations, and the significance of a strong work ethic across generations.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to Northwest Arkansas Investing Podcast, your
go-to source for real estateinvesting in Northwest Arkansas.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
With your seasoned investor just starting out.
We bring you expert insights,market trends and practical
strategies to help you buildwealth through real estate.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
From buying and selling to property management
and long-term investmentplanning.
We cover it all so you can makesmart, informed decisions in
this fast-growing market.
Let's dive in.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Welcome to Northest Arkansas Investing Podcast.
We have the son of Tom Allen,matthew Allen, here with us.
If you listened to the episodebefore, we just interviewed Tom
Allen and now we are here.
Fast forward, we or sorry, wejust did the interview, matthew.
Thank you so much for beingwith us.
Man, I want to start with aquick overview of yourself how

(00:51):
you got to where you are today,did you do previous jobs to
where you currently are now, andwhat does it look like and what
you currently do?

Speaker 4 (01:00):
Yeah, so thanks for having me.
So I went here to the U of A,graduated from there, I was
working at a local bankthroughout college and worked
there for a little bit aftergraduation just trying to figure
out what I was going to do.
And you know, my first thoughtwas, you know, real estate is
always in the back of my head.
I mean, it's just been aroundmy family for so long, so just
the exposure was there there.

(01:24):
But you know, I tried thecorporate route and, you know,
interviewed a lot with, you know, tyson and Walmart and other
stuff, and you know I just hadfriends doing that and saw how
it was going and you know, Ijust wasn't sure if that was for
me or not.
There's, you know, the securityI didn't feel like was there.
I felt like I, you know, getmotivated by, you know, getting
paid for what I do per se.
So I thought some sort of salesjob would be a good place to

(01:45):
start.
I thought about the carbusiness, because I'm really
into cars, thought it'd be fun,but I decided I want to have my
weekends and so um ended updoing real estate.
Um had just figured I'd just,you know, have my father, who
you just interviewed and havehim as sort of like a mentor,
someone to kind of follow andlearn from and all that.
And also, you know, there's alot of other great people in my

(02:06):
office that I like tocollaborate with and learn from
too, and so, yeah, it's been afun ride.
That's how I ended up there andyeah, it's been well so far.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
I love how you were in the banking industry actually
in college and then you weren'tall just like first to jump in
Like I'm a hundred percent goinginto real estate.
You even talked about cars alittle bit.
Tom kind of talked about thaton the previous like not
imposing well, so that'sinteresting that.
Were you thinking about goingfinance before you went into
real estate or what was thethought there?

Speaker 4 (02:36):
Oh, a little bit.
It was more of just like afamily friend.
I needed a job throughoutcollege and wanted to work, and
a family friend is the presidentof the bank at the time and he
was like, yeah, you can hop onhere, work throughout here, you
know, work your way up if youdecide to stay with it, type
thing.
And he was actually no longerwith the bank whenever I
graduated college.
So that path also I felt likewas closing.

(02:58):
So that was that's anotherreason for me to look elsewhere.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
So makes sense did?
I know that there's a lot ofthere's a lot of hard work to
get where you are, um, and how,and and I know it wasn't, it
wasn't given because I've had,I've heard people where they're
like, hey, my dad's owned abusiness here for 31 years, uh,

(03:21):
tim stanley.
And a lot of them would be like, oh you, you know you're
successful because of thefoundation you're given, because
of him.
What's it?
What's it look like?
And which is totally not true.
What's it look like to grindand get it yourself, but also
have you know you're not justgoing to not use the resources
that are available to you.
It'd be like being besidedrinking water and being thirsty

(03:42):
and not drinking it.
What's it been like to likeforge your own path and grind
and learn, um, but also have theresource right next to you.

Speaker 4 (03:50):
You need it yeah, so it's definitely um.
You know it's very gratifying todo it on your own and there's a
lot of people that you knowhave good opportunities, you
know through, through theirfamily, to you know, all that
same tradition and carry it on,and they choose to go a
different route just out of youknow, the sheer fact of you know
, hey, like I don't want to beseen as someone that you know is

(04:10):
just, you know, benefiting offwhat my family's laid out for me
type thing, which I get but atthe same time, pretty much
everyone I've talked to aboutthis has said I'd be foolish to
you know, try to just do it onmy own, which you, you know it
could end up working out, ofcourse, but you know, I just
feel like it's there, you know,and I got a good opportunity to
learn and hopefully buildsomething successful in the

(04:32):
future.
And, you know, carry on what'sbeen started.
And you know, also just helpothers around me.
You know, got to think ofothers surrounding you.
You know those in the office,those that you do deals with or
you know, represent Um, and so Ifelt like I was in a good
position to succeed and alsohelp people with their real
estate needs, you know, beingthat I'm at a great company with

(04:53):
a lot of good people that aretalented at what they do, did
you did?

Speaker 1 (04:56):
you ever mentally go?
Well, you know, I don't want totake this path because it feels
too easy, like was that ever athought?

Speaker 4 (05:06):
Uh no, I this path because it feels too easy.
Like, was that ever a thought?
Uh no, I mean I knew itwouldn't be easy.
Yes, you know, I was just it'sreal estate.
I mean I felt like I understoodit but admittedly, when I
actually got into it it wasstill not everything.
I thought it was, yeah, yeah, Ithought I understood it's.
That's just.
It's just one of those thingswhere people say it, and it's
true, like act as if you knownothing and start something new
and I wouldn't act.
I didn't act like I knewnothing, but I would definitely

(05:27):
realize I was a novice.
I didn't, definitely didn'tthink like I knew everything,
and that was definitely the case.
Yeah, um, it's a long learningcurve.
You know, these deals, there'sa long ramp up period to them in
commercial and they it's verycommon that they take months
from beginning to end andsometimes over a year, yeah, and
so I mean it takes.
It takes a while to kind of cutyour teeth and you know, bang

(05:48):
out the reps to get good at it,and so I mean it's, it's a
longer learning curve.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
Well, walk us through a little bit of what you're
doing right now.
Are you?
Are you?
Are you?
You're in the commercial field,correct?
You're doing commercial,strictly commercial.
Yes, strictly commercial, whichis sometimes where I want to be
after.
Uh, mom doesn't like a paintcolor, so I'm not brand new on
that.
Um, walk us through.

(06:12):
Are you doing commercialleasing?
Are you helping people?
Are you just focused on leasing?
Are you doing purchasing andselling commercial, or what it
was look like for that for you?

Speaker 4 (06:22):
All the above.
So, um, you know, um, you knowit's uh, people, that's kind of
one I guess we'll call it amisconception of people on the
outside, I think of commercial.
They think we're just doinginvestment sales, um, and that
is a part of what we do.
Um, it's a fun part of what wedo, but you know it's also
leasing is a big game aroundhere.
There's a lot of money in itbecause there's I mean, look at

(06:43):
the building we're in now, theones around it, like all that
space is getting leased andsomeone's representing somebody
on all those leases and so likethere's a lot of money to be had
in it.
You know, more often than notthey're smaller deal sizes than
the investment sales that yousee in the articles, but
sometimes they're bigger, yeah,and also they all add up, they
all compound, and so leasing isbig.

(07:05):
I like doing it, it's a lot offun.
It can be frustrating, it'sdefinitely tedious Not for the
weak of heart sometimes, yeah,and obviously you know you want
to have a very complete practiceand you want to be very
well-rounded, and so you got todo that.
You also need to supplement itwith the big investment sales
deals and with the big landsales deals, and you get those

(07:28):
one-offs too when you knowsomeone that has a business that
needs to relocate, looking forbuilding of a certain size, and
if you're able to capitalize onall those things I just named,
you'll have a pretty good littlecareer for yourself.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
Yeah, that's, that's cool.
Do you, uh, for youspecifically, do you have a
particular niche that you'rekind of it seems like in the
commercial space oftentimes youhave guys that are you know
specifically do industrial or doretail, or do you know strip
centers or whatever for you?
Do you have a specific nichethat kind of you go after, or
are you kind of able to to kindof juggle them all?

Speaker 4 (08:03):
I guess, if you will, I feel and I'm not the only one
that feels this way that thisarea, though it's growing and
there's a lot of upside to it,it's not big enough yet where
you can just focus on just onething and be successful.
Yeah, you know, you need to bedoing investment, sales.
You need to be doing industrialleasing and sales.
You need to do office leasing,land sales, you and sales.

(08:26):
You need to do office leasing,land sales.
You need to be well restored uhfacilities, you need to be
well-rounded and do a little bitof everything diversified for
sure.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
It sounded like you're pretty diversified within
the commercial space.
I know one of the projectsyou're involved in uh, right now
, the old steak and shake rightby I don't know if you guys
drink because you guys are favoguys, but the steak and shake be
by home Home Depot and theRogers Whole Foods that's going
in, which is a huge development.
Yep, you see Matthew's sign onthat.

(08:51):
What other?
So that would be a leasingproject, you know.

Speaker 4 (08:55):
Yeah, so we're in the middle of running some numbers
to which you've got the Steakand Shake building under
contract, but we are runningsome numbers to buy the land
adjacent to it to build moreretail space.
Just so, you know, we don'thave to charge as much rent if
we have more square footage tospread it out across, and so we
would just connect the two andso I'd be a partner on that and

(09:15):
we'd also be handling leasing ittoo, obviously, and you know
from there and we have an exitstrategy, but we may just hold
on to it.
So, yeah, who knows, that'sthat's kind of side thing, like
a personal kind of investmentthat's, although I am getting
brokerage fees from that, we arerunning it through sage.
You know, it's kind of kind oftwo different things it's a
brokerage deal and it's also mypersonal, yeah, I think that

(09:37):
that's so cool.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, that's, that's really cool that's what both of
these guys are doing brokerageand investment.
You know both sides of thetoken.

Speaker 4 (09:46):
Yeah, yeah, it's fun to rip a fee on it and then also
get a stay in the deal andcapitalize on the appreciation
and all that yeah there was afew of my two or three of my
homes that I've closed on that.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
I was moving into them specifically for investment
properties and I showed up withlike 500 bucks.
This is all I need to close onthe home because I rolled my
stuff in.
I got other fees and all sortsof stuff and so it's it's nice
to roll that in and kind of twofor one, two for one.
It was there a time when youwere getting into the business
learning like a pivotal momentfor you.

(10:19):
Do you remember a pivotalmoment of like hey, I just like
leased up this big this thing bymyself, like I, I just or I
just made this transaction?
Do you remember like okay, likeI did it.
Like was there a pivotal salethat you remember?

Speaker 4 (10:34):
uh, yes, um, it's.
Uh, you know this is I'm gonnakind of go off to the side a
little bit on this point, thisquestion but uh, I think my
first like big deal or my firstjust huge check was, uh, it
definitely felt good and it wasmy first time making like really
substantial money and at thetime I didn't have much overhead

(10:54):
no house payment, car payment,nothing and so I just had all
this cash all of a sudden and Iwas like, oh, this is great.
Like you know, it feels likeI've, you know, finally made a
mark and all that.
But the negative side to it,that this kind of I think this
answers another one questionyou're going to ask me but uh,
the lesson I learned from it wasI kind of got a little too
comfortable after that month, um, because I just had that

(11:14):
another big deal closed in thesame month and I, you know, had
enough money from that month.
So, you know, more like lesspeople make in a year, yeah, and
I was like this is great, youknow, whatever I finally got
somewhere.
But the thing is I got a littlecomfortable, admittedly, and, uh
, this is kind of a lesson thatI had to learn, that, you know,
I still worked hard, I was stillworking on the deals I had

(11:34):
going already and, like,servicing the clients I already
had, I wasn't as aggressivelypursuing new stuff as I had been
, yeah, um, and so once I kindof got to the you know where I
wanted to do, that again I waslike, oh, I was like I forgot
how long the ramp up period isfor these deals.
Like it takes a while.
And so it definitely taught mea lesson that, like you know, I
would tell anybody this like,once you get your first big

(12:02):
check like you know it's not,you know it can be hard to do,
it's easier said than done Idefinitely, you know, suffered a
little bit from it.
But, yeah, definitely, you know, your first, your first big
sales deal, or whatever kind ofdeal it is, you know it's
definitely it feels great, itfeels like you've gotten
compensated for your hard workand all that, and it feels good,

(12:25):
but you've got to be carefultoo, to kind of be a wise
steward and you know, keep yourpractice going.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
So, yeah, it's crazy, the uh, I mean it success is
obviously not a continuum andyou have to continue, especially
in all of our businesses andfor investors listening that
it's it's not a continuum andyou have to continue to pursue,
you know, the day-to-day thingsand the fundamentals, to
continue to bring in newbusiness or bring in new deals
or whatever.

Speaker 4 (12:43):
So that's a good perspective that I think a lot
need to hear.
I mean it's, it's what they say.
I think it's the fat pigs getslaughtered.
I think it's what they say.
So I mean, complacency is anenemy, and so it's a.
It's one of those things whereyou gotta be careful about that,
yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yeah, jj Watts said it's success is unknown.
Rent is due every day,something like that.
Yeah, rent is due every daysomething like that.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Success is known, rent is dueevery day, so you constantly
have to fill the hopper back upand I would guess you're never
getting too high or too low offdeals and like, okay, we got
something under contract, great,let's just keep on keeping on,
because maybe it falls out,maybe it doesn't, let's just hit
the next one.
More hooks in the water, isthat kind?

Speaker 4 (13:22):
of the thought process, yeah, yeah, I think
y'all would agree with this too.
Like early in your career.
We won't like.
As soon as you get somethingunder contract, it's exciting
because you've not got to getthat, commission check yeah well
you know, tom taught me from avery early on to never calculate
your commission yes, yes,superstition uh, until it closes
.
And I still do that, unless Ijust have to know what it is for
, like, you know, our companybudgeting purposes.

(13:44):
That's the only time I'llcalculate it beforehand.
But no, yeah, it's.
Yeah, I just it's you got tokeep it going, because I mean
it's, it's about buildingmomentum to like what I've
trained myself to do is likeyou've got to think about like
how far can you take this thing,how far you push this thing,

(14:05):
and that's done a pretty goodjob of you.
No matter what happens, good orbad, you just keep going like
it didn't happen, type thingyeah, that's almost an argument
for myself.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
That's why I like the investment side of the business
.
You guys all three, you guysare broker, you know.
And an argument for myself like, I like the investment side of
it because it's not likebrokerage, it is super
transactional and you and youare like, okay, to your point, I
got to put these irons in thefire.
I like, just because I'mclosing this deal next week, I
got to have more irons in thefire.

Speaker 4 (14:30):
So I don't get.
Yeah, and one more on that lastquestion too, is you know when
you get all those first?
You know couple of deals youget under contract before they
even close?

Speaker 1 (14:45):
you're excited that you got something under contract
contract.

Speaker 4 (14:46):
You know it's because , partly like, you've not
experienced what can happen andlikely will happen at some point
.
Yeah, I mean, I'm not just me,just people.
I know the business.
The craziest stuff can happen.
I mean I've got a friend thatmore than once he's had a
building under contract to closeand it got pushed back,
extended and a tornado camethrough and wiped the building
out, oh and so he didn't getpaid on it, and and so I mean
just there's so much that canhappen and real estate just I

(15:07):
mean I think we work harder thananyone else in the world.
This is a hard profession.
It's a really, it's a test ofgrind, and so I mean there's
just a lot that can happen andyou gotta, it truly takes
experience to kind of, you know,conduct yourself in a way that
that stuff just doesn't affectyou.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
That was leading to my question, which is what is
the hardest part of the businessthat people don't talk about in
real estate?
That's a good question.
You kind of were just hintingon it.

Speaker 4 (15:32):
Yeah, I would just say you've got to learn to be
resilient and you can't besomeone that gets really
emotional.
Yeah, I mean, if you getsomething under contract, great,
like you know.
But wait till it closes to beexcited, and when it does close,
like I think everyone shouldcelebrate their wins.
But I don't think you should beso hard on yourself, and I have

(15:57):
, and I have, this issue to thisday.
I mean, if you're hard onyourself, it makes it really
difficult to.
I mean, it affects your mood,which affects everything else.
You just got to worry aboutwhat you can control and all you
can do is prepare and respondin life.
You can't control anything elsebeyond that yeah, depends who
you ask.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
You ask.
Someone might say propertymanagement is the hardest, or
some some might say thetransactional management.
It like closings get pushed,lender falls out, building gets
wiped out by a tornado.
Like, yeah, that part is isintensive construction
management is like could be, youknow, one of the harder parts.
I think it depends, you know,for me that's why, like I like

(16:35):
having a good broker, like Imean having a couple good
brokers that can manage thetransaction for you, like, my
time value is raising capital,going, evaluating next deal,
making sure property managersare doing what they say they're
going to do.
But like having a broker thatcan manage a fucking tornado or
just take one on the okay, we're, we're.

(16:56):
Maybe that sucks a lot, butyeah, where's the next, where's
the next potential?

Speaker 4 (17:01):
yeah, yeah, I mean once you had enough, once you
had enough happened to you likeit.
Really.
Just iron sharpens the iron.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
So, yes, strengthens the chin, keeps getting stronger
, yep yeah, that that's.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
That's crazy tornado thing I've never, I've never is
that in rogers Seaspring?

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, I feel like people ask about Arkansas if
it's in Tornado Valley and I sayit's more.
Oklahoma is Tornado Valley.
Well, here's.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
The thing is that they're saying that Tornado
Valley is actually shifting easta little bit, where we're kind
of on the edge now.

Speaker 4 (17:35):
I've heard people say that as well, and I would
believe it.
It's adjusted.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
It kind of feels like it.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
I lived in Cave Springs like my first, like at
Fayetteville my first year, andthen Cave Springs for five years
.
I've been at Rogers three yearsand Cave Springs was actually
like would get hit for a while.
Like people in Rogers were like, yeah, we didn't really feel
anything.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Cave Springs, you would kind of feel it and, yeah,
people on the border like outtowards tulsa, but it definitely
like rogers seems to be yeah,well, and they say it's we're
like in the ozarks, but I didn'tmean this to be the weather
channel podcast, but we're likethe ozarks but like really,
fayville's a little hilly,belvis is a little hilly, but
anywhere in between is likedecently flat.

Speaker 4 (18:13):
It's not like yeah, the fayville people always want
to say we don't get tornadoes,we have so many hills.
Not know how much accuracythere is to that.
But I mean, what is the?

Speaker 3 (18:21):
notion for it's, I mean the the data is there.

Speaker 4 (18:23):
They don't really get what we get over here, so I
mean, maybe they're right.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
So that explains it, for we have listeners not just
in northwest arkansas.
And like the fable people justsums it up, like each week we've
talked about each town has itsown distinct.
Just sums it up, like eachwe've talked about, each town
has its own distinct, likeculture and even the center tens
and the, you know not just therogers favo, springdale, and we
talked about it with tom even,yeah, pinnacle, uptown versus

(18:47):
downtown.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
Um do you do, you see , like with you doing commercial
deals, is there a city you likedealing with best?

Speaker 4 (18:55):
honestly, probably, rogers, really.
And yeah, I say that because I,you know I live here and I
operate here mostly, and youknow I've done deals in every
town.
But I mean it's is probablybecause I'm just comfortable
with it and I just I know I feellike it's there's more than
likely.
I've driven by that building amillion times and I've already
looked it up online and I justknow about it.

(19:16):
Yeah, so it makes it easier andit's comfortable and the the
city is pretty fair to deal with.
So, relatively speaking.
So I mean, that's probably myfavorite town to deal with.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, knowing the landscape I'm sure helps a lot
in those conversations with thecity, having more confidence in
your vision.
You know we talked about Tom,like it's like Tom.
Tom and Rogers were like on thesame wavelength when they were
building like uptown, so I thinkthat's also because he knew the
landscape very well and hecould speak to that.

Speaker 4 (19:46):
Yeah, yeah, I know he .
And for someone like him he'sgot an extra layer there just
cause he was on city council,quorum court, all that stuff.
He was super involved, which Ican't say that yet, and and so,
um, yeah, he's got that goingfor him too.
So I'm sure that was his answeras well.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
but yeah, how um I?
I wanted to dive into a littledifferent section of the podcast
which is like um, acontinuation of legacy.
So you're 31 now, 31, 31 now.
So, uh, your dad obviouslyprovided some type of foundation
for you to platform off of.
So you didn't just, you didn'tjust jump and fall off and do

(20:20):
nothing, you jump to the nextlevel.
Um, and a few podcasts andbooks I've listened to.
Usually the first generationthey grind, and they, they get
it.
The second generation, which isgeneration I'm in, it's like
generation you're in, um, theysee the grind.
They didn't necessarily like,feel the hardness of the grind,
like, growing up they weren'tlike oh, like we don't have any
food, but like they saw, theysaw the parents working, and so

(20:43):
we have a respect for it, and sowe, we grind too.
And then the third generationthe percentages are that it dies
off, and so how deep?
I guess the question is how doyou uphold that for your future
children, if you have them, andwhat does that look like to be
able to say, hey, I know lifeisn't hard, but here's how we

(21:03):
make stuff happen.

Speaker 4 (21:05):
You know that's got to be honest.
I don't have that answer yet.
You know I like how you putthat because I think I agree
wholeheartedly with it that youknow the first generation puts
in the work and gets it.
The second is a good steward ofit.
It's a different experience.
They grow up with it, aren'tbeing there, but they realize
what it took to an extent.
Yeah, and they're a goodsteward with it.

(21:26):
It's the third generation.
That's kind of a wild card,like they could, like they enjoy
what it, you know, brings themand they may be a good steward
as well, or they could justtotally just not understand.
Yeah, that's honestly.
I don't know how you do it.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
To be honest, I've seen that and a lot of it's like
by the third generation.
The percentage that it likegoes away is it jumps up so much
.
Yeah, I've seen that multiplesources so that isn't and
obviously matthew's not marriedyet or um.
So I think you know, tom wasvery con, like, very aware of
being humble.
He mentioned the word humblewhen, but which was funny

(22:02):
because you're like, uh, savethe best for last, as you ended
here and tom was like, but Ithink that was, you know, partly
one big why you didn't.
Sometimes people push it like Ithink that's going to be the
challenge for me in fatherhood,close to fatherhood, I've seen
other fathers.
That's front of mind right now.

(22:23):
It might not be as front ofmind for you, but for me it's
like I've seen some reallysuccessful fathers push their
kids so much that they justdon't want nothing to do with it
, and some have the guidance.

Speaker 4 (22:36):
Yeah, there's definitely a balance to it.
Yeah, I mean, the only thing Icould think of to do at this
point and luckily I'm not afather yet, so I'm still
figuring out how I would do thisbut I think the only thing you
could do is to set an example.
I mean, one thing I can think ofis I remember whenever Tom was
handling Walmart real estate,when I was a little kid and he

(22:56):
was traveling I think it wasthree or four days every two
weeks, traveling throughout theMidwest because they were
shuttering all the regularWalmarts and transitioning to
super centers, and for eightyears he worked at Walmart, I
think it was.
It was, you know, three or fourdays every two weeks, being out
of town, not seeing his family,and it doesn't seem, doesn't
sound like a lot, three or fourdays days, but that compounding
effect over eight years everytwo weeks, that's a lot of time

(23:19):
away from your family, and Idefinitely remember that, and so
I know he didn't enjoy that,but he knew he had to and so I,
you know, have memories likethat.
That can I, I can kind ofequate to, to be like, okay,
this is, you know, this is whatit takes to, you know.
Provide for your family.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
do all that so, yeah, someone's motivation too to
like make sure that you don'thave to do that for your future
family, like, okay, I wanteverything set up so where, like
I can create my own, I can beat all their ball games, if
practices, if they need me toyou know right, yeah, I I got to
see my dad, uh, literally spendall nighters at the, at his

(23:55):
office, just like falling asleepin the chair, and we go bring
breakfast in the morning orsomething, and he was just he
grind all night long, over andover and all nighters and just
fall asleep in the chair, and itcreated a lot of respect.
I think that's kind of whatyou're touching on is like yeah,
you're like you have this, likethat no one else has more
respect than our or us, or yourdad than you and my dad than me,

(24:16):
and I think same things isbecause we got to see him go
through it and I'm like, youknow, part of that was still me.
I was like, okay, how do I notdo that?
Like I don't know if I want todo that or I don't know if I can
like do that.
So like how do I not to saythat your dad and my dad weren't
smart, but like how do I likework a little smart, like how
can I capitalize and multiplysome things where I maybe don't

(24:37):
have to do some writers and dosome stuff, and I think that's
maybe, I think a lot of itwithout being a dad?
You know, listeners, I'm not adad yet, but I think something
is instilling those values in akid and like we have to be so,
we're going to have to be sodiligent about like showing them

(24:57):
, like, hey, you know life, youdon't just wake up and
everything's good, like here'syour history, you know, having
we have the institutional memoryto go, here's what you're,
here's what my dad did, andwe're walking through that in
due time, you know.
Yeah, I just just set anexample.
I think, yeah, yeah, I thinkthat's kind of brandon was your
and you kind of get to see someof that with your dad too, I'm

(25:18):
assuming, cause his dad's beenin real estate for a while.

Speaker 3 (25:21):
For sure.
So my dad worked with his dad,um, and they worked together in
business all the time and and soI got to see all both those
generations like just grindtogether and and I have memories
too of, like you know, youngerBrandon at a baseball game and
dad couldn't come because he'she's got to work, yeah, he's got
to go meet a client or whatever, and and uh.

(25:42):
So it's funny how those littlethings kind of stick with you
but kind of makes you, as a man,though, kind of look at it and
be like, okay, this is, this iswhat I loved about what my dad
did, and and that, what hecreated, and and here's what I
would like to do better and andkind of you know, start to
pursue that and build off ofthat if you will.

Speaker 4 (25:58):
I'm glad you said that, cause that's a.
That was one thing I wasmeaning to mention too.
Is that, like everybody's,different.
Like you know, although ourparents may have, you know, been
great at what they do and youknow, built some really great
and everything.
Like you know, we all havestrengths that they don't and we
have we've grew up withdifferent experiences than they

(26:25):
did.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
That built us a different way and there's ways
for us to capitalize because wecan take what we learned from
them, but also take ourexperiences growing up and just
kind of build on what thatplatform is that is so big,
because I see so many people inour positions take the platform
and just be like I'm not usingit.
Cruise control, cruise control.
And I'm like, all right, how doI use this as a springboard?
To like, okay, I got this great, solid foundation.
These footers are solid, thisis poured like how do I take it
and do more with it?
And I think it's something.
It's very honorable what you'vedone and everyone in this room's

(26:47):
done with their life.
We're not just hitting thecruise control button, I think,
which is hard, and I think it'sgoing to be even harder for us
to translate to our future kids,whenever that may be.
Switching topics a little bit,you're, of course, we're all
around the same age.
What are some trends that yousee for this area?
Or rather, what would you liketo see trend-wise for this area
as far as commercial buildings?

(27:09):
The skyline Do you want to seeit getting higher?
Do you want to see biggerrestaurants coming in.
What would you like to see fortrends?
Wise for this area?

Speaker 4 (27:18):
I think most of what you just said I'd like to see.
Um, you know the city has donea good job of keeping up with.
You know what is trending inurban areas throughout the
country.
I know the roundabout it's ahot topic for some people.
I don't mind them, I just blowright through them, keeps it,
keeps the traffic't mind them,um, but uh, you know that's
something that, like you know,they were, you know, on the

(27:39):
forefront of incorporating thoseand so it does add an urban
feel to the area.
Um, and you know they're doingother things.
Like you know, the new citybuilding code is they're trying
to encourage people to build uponto the street and the sidewalk
okay, with not much green spaceseparating it, just to add a
more urban feel to it.
And that, you know, obviously,with the stake and shake you

(28:00):
know project we're doing, couldmake it more difficult because
that building is pretty, it'spretty far set back from the
sidewalk and so we may have tosee, you know, how we're gonna
make that work.
But yeah, you know, in general,stuff like that like it makes
it more urban feel, feels, like,you know, kind of like Dallas
uptown area, a little less likeArkansas, yeah, so that's one

(28:22):
thing too.
You know, as you said, buildinghigher, I believe there's no
restriction on height anymore,that the city just did that, and
so I don't know if we have theneed for that yet.
But I mean, I'm kind of glad wedon't have that yet.
I mean, 10 stories, I think, isas tall as we need right now.
We could justify going higher,and we've thought about it

(28:45):
before, but it's one of thosethings where these buildings are
so expensive Like we're blessedthat after we build them
they're leased up in two years.
Yeah, and you know what?
Are we able to shoulder morethan 200 000 square feet of
space to lease up?
How long will it take to leaseup?
This is all kind of unchartedterritory.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
So, yeah, plus, then you know you go build a 25 story
place.
It'd be like look like a sorethumb here, like why would?
Why do we?

Speaker 4 (29:08):
even need that.
Yeah, I got some skinnybuildings sticking up out.
Yeah, I mean it's, but I meanat one point, that's what hunt
tower looked like.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
so at some point you know it's like it's, but I mean
at one point that's what HuntTower looked like.
So at some point you know it'slike it's kind of paving the way
and Tom was saying too, like alot of these, a lot of these
like lease prices that you hiton these buildings that you know
were put up Hunt Tower and someof the others that you just
mentioned it's all like how arewe going to lease that up and
how are we going to get thisprice?

Speaker 4 (29:40):
There's no way.
And then it does.
And then you kind of hit newlandmarks.
Yeah, every building that we'vedone, that's been the whole
like topic of discussion.
It's like, can we get this muchin rent?
And of course we're doing thatagain with the vision area over
here.
Yeah, um, and so I mean I wantto jinx it, but it looks good so
far.
We'll see, though.
Um, but no, yeah, it's, wedon't have the need to build
super high yet.
I'm glad that we don't too,because you know, eventually,
yes, it will get leased up, thatthere'll be people that'll, you

(30:00):
know, take the space, but it'sgoing to generate so much
traffic around here and there'llbe density issues.
And I mean I don't think.
I mean I think people like,where we're, it has everything
you need.
You can shop here, you can eathere, you can work here, and you
got, you know, golf, top golfand everything.
And you have to deal withtraffic jams everywhere.

(30:22):
I mean, the only traffic jamyou have to worry about is the
Chick-fil-A over here, yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:27):
Do you feel like the just in your experience and what
you're, you know, dealing withthe city?

Speaker 4 (30:41):
do you feel like they are already planning?
for those kind of things, thosedensity issues that could come
later.
I think they are.
They've done a pretty good jobso far, you know, being ahead of
the curve and all that, and soI would assume they will
continue to follow that trend,you know so, I think you know.
The density issue, like I don'tthink we'll see it for a long
time.
I mean we're running out ofland to build on, you know, so I
don't think we'll run into thatissue ever.
I mean that, as you know,there's a hotel to be built
there, which isn't happening now, and that was a concern about

(31:03):
that, and so.
But you know, I think we've gotplenty of obviously enough
energy around here already.
I think it's going to attract alot more restaurants, like you
mentioned, things to do, stufflike that, yeah, which will
attract a, you know, or young,professional demographic as well
.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
Yeah, I think that's what we're seeing.
One of the things that I wantedto ask was where do you see the
most potential growth forcommercial real estate in
Northwest Arkansas, and I havean idea, but Growth is in like
what area or what?

Speaker 4 (31:35):
Yeah, what area?
What?

Speaker 1 (31:37):
city.
I mean.
Well, I would say what area inslash, what city you know?
Cause Rogers is different?
Cause you have downtown in heretoo.
But like what area in NorthwestArkansas do you see the most
potential?

Speaker 4 (31:48):
Not Fayetteville, no, I would say Rogers, for sure
Benville, you know.
And of course that spills overto Centerton and Lowell a little
bit and you know he Ridge, Ihear, is getting some of that as
well.
Yeah, and I don't reallyoperate over there very often
but I spend a lot of time inRogers, bentonville, lowell and

(32:09):
time in Fayetteville andSpringdale.
I would say Rogers andBentonville, just between the
new home office just opening inBentonville.
You know, in conjunction withwhat we've already got going on
over here, in conjunction withwhat the Waltons are doing over
on the Bentonville square andall around there, that's just so
much activity and in one countythat it'd be hard for
Washington county to, you know,be able to match that.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
You know it's just there's a lot to talk about.
So you see Centerton as alwaysa kind of commuter town, or do
you see anything commercial evergetting like built like in
Centerton Because, like rightnow, I'll keep all the investors
from out of state call me allthe time they're like.
Well, I see everyone's talkingabout Centerton but like why?
I'm like, honestly, it's just abunch of flat land, a bunch of
residential buildings, like, andthey just go to Bentonville,

(32:52):
like that's what people do there, like, do you do you see center
10 being anything more in thefuture?

Speaker 4 (32:58):
I don't, I don't think so.
I mean it kind of comes off tome, like you said, like a suburb
to bentonville.
Yeah, in a way, I mean just abunch of single family stuff
going on out there.
I mean you got some you knowretail and some retail centers
that stick out there for youramenities and you have
everything you need.
Chiropractic clinics yeah, Imean you have everything you
need Chiropractic clinics.
Yeah, I mean you haveeverything you need but nothing
more type thing.
So I mean, yeah, I just Ipersonally don't see it, but I

(33:21):
don't think I'm the person toask either.
I think there's centers thatoperate more over there that
could have a better answer forthat.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yeah, we operate an apartment in Centerton Waterco.
It's right on the border ofCenterton and Deerville.
Yeah, super well, like 99 we'vebeen able to get the phase
three at least up.
I think deeper into centertonstill feels like you still see
cows out there, you know.
But the closer you get to thebentonville border I know uh the

(33:47):
flippers from hgtv they openeda shop up in uh bentonville
would uh the bat uh forget theirnames.
But I know what you're talkingabout there's some interesting
developments going on.
I think Bentonville is startingto have almost like Rogers has,
the pinnacle uptown it's funnyyou said uptown Dallas, because
I've described that toout-of-state investors too of

(34:08):
pinnacle as like an uptownversus downtown Rogers.
I think Bentonville isinteresting Walmart's home
campus.
They just opened that up forthorough traffic, like that's
going to be.
That's going to be different,different than the square, but
you know, xna is still likeright over there, still part of
bentonville.
You know we're buying outapartment complex out there and

(34:29):
certain people you know somepeople say that looks rural,
rural out there but it'sliterally in bentonville and xna
is 35 million dollar expansion.
You know the high 180 milliondollar highway going that way.
So really gonna open up xna.
Yeah, I think it's really coollike there's a lot of excitement
in like almost every market,like we.
You're super involved in rogersand I think it's interesting

(34:52):
here.

Speaker 4 (34:52):
So yeah, I want to go back to you know no, I don't
want to sound like I'm trying tohate on fayville, but, you know
, because I think they have donea very good job when it comes
to maintaining their identity.
It's a college town.
It definitely still feels likeArkansas, because that's one
potential you call to knock, Iguess, if you want to, on Rogers
and Bentonville is, it doesn'tfeel very Southern up here and

(35:13):
some people want that, and ifyou want that you can go to
springdale or fayetteville andstill have that, and so they've
maintained that.
But they've also added, youknow, some cool restaurants,
some cool bars, things to do.
Obviously they've got therazorback still, um, and so
they've done a good job.
You know, keeping it how it isand you know it's, yes, it's,
it's been the same for, you know, 10 or 15 years but, like

(35:33):
people, I guess don't reallywant it to change.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
So yeah, yeah, that's a funny description Like it's
more Southern, you know, and wehave a, we have a rights
barbecue up here.
So it's got a little South, youknow.
But that also came from Johnson, which is, you know, Washington
County.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
Right, yeah, yeah, I think I think that's, I think
there's good.
And back to what you're, whatwe're talking about with
centerton I think the reality isat some point it has to
continue to go out becausethere's we're running out of
land you know close to 49, right, and so I think centerton at
some point will be a beneficiaryof commercial and it'll be more

(36:10):
of a hub and even like goingdown to high full.
Because if you look at otherdeveloped areas and cities, like
you know, around the airport isvery developed and there's a
lot of residential and otherthings going on and people like
being close to the airport,sometimes in other big cities,
and so, yeah, I think, I think Imean, is that the way you kind
of see it too, as, as wecontinue to grow next 10, 20,

(36:30):
obviously this is looking longerterm.
But do you think northwestarkansas starts to get some?
Some of these outskirts citiesstart to become hubs, like a
Rogers Springdale, bittenville,fayetteville are yeah, I would
definitely agree with that.

Speaker 4 (36:44):
You know it's centers in.
I don't think it's going to beyou know just the thing tomorrow
, but I think you know, longterm, I think it's a good bet
for somebody looking to dosomething out there.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
I think we're 56.
Something out there.
Yeah, yeah, I think we're 56.
Yeah, I want to see anypotential issue with center 10
being a some sort of hub and pridge or like a right farming 10
or something like that.
Elkins is really trailingbehind now, but there ain't much
popping out there.

Speaker 4 (37:08):
It's out there, I mean yeah, I mean even cave
springs out where tom lives.
Like you know, when they firstmoved out there you know, I
guess 20 years ago or so it washe said he was like the growth
will be out, coming out this wayat some point, because the
airport's out here, yeah, andyou know, 20 years later it's
still not a metropolis out there, but it's.
You know, you can.
You can feel more energy thanthere was prior yeah, yeah, you

(37:32):
really can uh.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
so you deal with a variety of different clients, I
I'm guessing in the commercialreal estate field First off.
Do you ever deal with newinvestors in the commercial
field?
Is that somebody you deal with?
Oh, all the time.
Yeah, what's a common mistakeyou see them make?
Or is there a common mistakeyou see them make?

Speaker 4 (37:52):
Um, you know, we're we're blessed that.
You know, people are usuallypretty sophisticated around here
, that if they're investingaround here and they have the
money, then they're usually youknow, they know what they're
doing.
That's usually the case.
Yeah, uh, but not always.
I think one, uh, I think one.
This is for someone that'sprobably new to the area or new

(38:13):
to putting money northwestarkansas yeah, one kind of
misconception that we see isthat, like, people will come
into this area, want to placemoney and they think they're
getting ahead, they're beating,you know, the race to northwest
Arkansas, essentially kind oflike you know, austin, texas,
back in the day, people were,you know, rushing there because
that's the next thing, um, andit's really people kind of know

(38:34):
about us now and so you're notreally people walk in here,
think they're getting a deal onsomething and it's just going to
be a home run and all that.
And I mean this is a greatplace to invest, but it's not
somewhere to invest if you'rereally trying to get into the
bottom level, because you knowit's, it's only, you know, going
up and the demand is there andyou know there's a lot of out of
state money coming here now?

Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah, do you state money?
Coming here now?
Yeah.
Do you feel like a lot of timesyour initial conversations with
those new investors aremanaging expectations and going
hey?
I find for me a lot of timesthey're like, hey, you know, I
want for single family homes andsmall multi-family.
It's hey, I want 800 bucks ofcash flow on and I'm like, okay,
that's awesome, but it's justnot gonna happen like I need.

(39:15):
I need to set your expectationsfrom home run to like single or
a double or something like that.
Do you feel like you're doingthat a lot?

Speaker 4 (39:22):
you're good to be doing that, because that's what
I was taught to do as well.
Um, definitely off the bat,because it's say it saves
everybody time and effort ifyou're just transparent.
Off the bat, I mean there's,there are some people that have
made a good career overpromising and you know they're
delivering yes like just to.
You know, there's people thatyou know will say I can get you

(39:43):
that just to get the listing.
And, yeah, and they do get thelisting, and sometimes they'll
get sold for much less what theysaid they could itself, or end
up getting the deal done, yeah,any either way, but that's just
not the best practice to goabout it in my opinion.
Our company doesn't reallyeither.
I mean, we've all kind of gotthe same mentality that you know
, let's be transparent off thebat, because you know for one,

(40:04):
like, if you over promise them,yeah, you might, you'll probably
get the listing and you'll getyour sign on that property.
And but the thing is like youwant that sign off the property
as soon as possible.
You know you don't want it justto sit there forever because it
looks like you can't get thejob done and also your client's
going to be annoyed at youbecause you said you could
deliver this for them and you'renot, and so, like there's just
multiple reasons that, like youshould just be transparent off

(40:26):
the bat.
You should be going afterlistings that have, you know, an
owner that has reasonableexpectations and that you can,
you know, deliver on.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
That was my next thought is like do we even want
to take on the listings?
Or the buyers that like havethese unrealistic expectations
and all they're concerned aboutis, hey, whoever tells me the
highest price, that's who I'mlistening with.
It's like they're probably notlike thinking too deep on very
many levels.

Speaker 4 (40:49):
Yeah, I mean that happens and you know we get beat
out all the time by other firmsthat want to say they can sell
it for more money and maybe theycan.
Yeah, um, but we try to you know, be you know, if anything,
we'll try, we'll be verydetailed on what we think we can
get for it and we will avoid atall costs, like you know, over
promising what we can get for it.

(41:10):
So, yeah, we've lost listingsbefore to people and the thing
is like I don't really fault theowner for wanting more money,
yeah, but because, because they,because they're hiring us for a
reason, they're leaning on usas experts to you know, we're in
the in the end, we're in thedata business.
Yeah, we've got all the datafor what the stuff sells, for
who's buying it, and they leanon us for our information, to

(41:31):
tell them, you know, what theycan get for it.
So if you got, you know, two orthree respectable firms they're
, you know, pitching for thelisting they're gonna go usually
with the one they'll say theycan get the most money for it.
Yeah, and I don't blame them,yeah, unless someone like us who
says you can't get that much.
But here's why, maybe a verydetailed case.
Sometimes that can prevail inthe end.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
So a lot of times I've seen success from on a
different scale your commercial.
I'm residential and going.
Hey know, here's I will turn mycomputer around.
This is, this is what anyonesees a hundred past 180 days,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah.
Here's what we're looking at.
You know the here's what thedata shows me.
So your home's worth 450,000.

(42:09):
I know X, y, z agent just toldyou you can get five, 50,.
You know, hats off to him.
I'm not going to.
I'm.
I'll tell you if you want a listfor five, 50 with me, I might
you know if it's a, if it's justa little bit over my comps, I'd
be like sure.
Like I'm not going to tell younot to list with me, but I am
saying like, hey, if we're goingto start higher than what I'm

(42:30):
showing, like be prepared to sitand let's have a game plan for,
like what it looks like, a drop, a drop, a drop to get us back
down to normal.
So I think having sellers andbuyers with realistic
expectations is really importantand at the end of the day I
think maybe you can speak onthis as well Like, ultimately,
when I take those type ofclients, I end up mentally
exhausted and when I have thetype of people that just

(42:52):
understand and get it, it's asmoother thing.
They understand, they're notgriping all the time and I'm
like my life is way easierbecause I'll find myself like a
yes man, I'll, yeah, I'll takethat, listening, I'll take it,
take it.
And then it's like my life ishell at that point well, you're
exactly right.

Speaker 4 (43:07):
I 100 agree with that .
And the other thing, too, is,like time is the big thing.
It's to take a lot of time anda lot of wasted time.
Whenever you take on somethinglike that, you know, and that's
it's just, it's just not worthit.
You spend that time on thingsthey're actually gonna, you know
, pay the company money that areactually gonna get, you know,
closed.
Yeah, uh, so, yeah, that's.
That's.
One thing I had to learn when Iwas new in the business was uh,

(43:27):
you know you want to just goafter everything, right, yeah,
um, you know, I was taught to,you know, be somewhat picky and
be educated on who you want towork for and work with.
Otherwise, you're going to justbe, you know it will have you
running around, just, you know,searching for things that aren't
going to happen.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
If there's somebody listening right now that is
potentially in their market orin North Dakota's Arkansas
market, thinking of being acommercial agent, what's one
piece of advice you'd give tothem about once they got into
the business.
What?
What would you do?
Uh, what's some of the firststeps you'd take.

Speaker 4 (44:01):
Well, I think hard work is the bedrock of it.
I mean, I'm not one of thosepeople that just says that, like
if as long as you work hard,you're going to okay, which, if
you will like, hard work isirreplaceable, and I think
that's where it all starts from.
But you need more than that, um, but that's where it starts.
That's the first thing youshould make sure that you have,
because if you don't have likethat drive, like it's gonna be,

(44:21):
it's probably not the businessfor you.
Um, you got, because it's youeat what you kill, as they say,
um, and so you got to beconstantly want to go after
stuff, be motivated every day tocome to the office, make calls,
you know, bring value to youroffice and all that.
So I mean, I would.
I would just say like there's alot of, honestly, there's a lot
of lazy residential agents orreal estate agents out there.

(44:42):
There's a lot of lazyresidential agents and
commercial, yeah, there's a lotof, you know people that get
their licenses and they justdon't work hard, and so there's
a bunch of those out there andso we get a bad rap.
Yeah, we, yeah, there's,there's a bunch of us, and you
know, people refer to us.
Sometimes it's like a glorifiedused car salesman, um, and so
there's a lot and you know it's,it's not hard to get your

(45:03):
license, and so I think ifsomeone was wanting to get into
the business, the first thing tothink about is like, just make
sure you're known at the officeto be, you know, the first one
there that's um, motivated,dresses well, presents himself
well, fun to be around, like,personable, all that.
But it all starts with workinghard because you know, like you

(45:28):
said, we kind of get a bad rapsometimes about you know a lot
of agents that don't answer thephone or don't respond to emails
very promptly, stuff like that.
That's easy stuff.
I mean like if you can just dothat and just be very responsive
and just work hard andeverything I just said.
I mean I think that's where itall starts and also it comes
down to finding a good fit,cause not not every commercial
real estate brokerage firm isthe same.
Yeah, a lot of them.

(45:49):
You know like there's we don'tdo much retail deals where you
know we used to do.
There's other firms that domore of that than we do, and
everyone has their own kind ofniche where they fit in a little
bit more.
Like I said earlier, everybodydoes everything.
It's kind of like everyone's ajack of all trades, master of
none around here, but certainfirms do focus more on certain

(46:09):
sectors than others do still.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
Something I'll piggyback off of.
That on is something thathelped me and I think you'll
testify to as well, brian andBrandon is the biggest thing I
saw when getting into thebusiness was finding I found
three guys that I wanted to belike, and I followed them around
like a lost puppy and I waslike I want to.
If you're going into a meeting,I want to be there and just sit

(46:32):
.
If you're going to the bank, Iwant to go to the bank.
If you're doing whatever and Imean I did it with my dad when I
was selling printers and when Igot into real estate, I found
my broker, kyle Atkins, and twoother guys and was just like how
can I follow you around?
I think you learn a lot bybeing in rhythm and in step with
those kind of people.
Would you concur with that?

Speaker 4 (46:51):
Definitely.
Yeah, that's a good way to putthat.
It's definitely, you know,think about, like who are you
trying to be in, you know, fiveyears, ten years and down the
road and kind of you know, betransparent and like hey, like
this is where I'm trying to beat like I'll bring, how can I
bring value to what you're doing?
I'm just trying to learn fromyou, but I don't want to just be
a leech.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
essentially, yeah, some of those.
That's a great point, because alot of those people don't just
want to have someone justsitting in their car with them,
just staring at them Like yougot to be providing some type of
value and like sometimes I'veseen where, like you just have
to pay them enough and be likehey, like I will do something
for you, think of a job for me,like I will do something.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
I think that's the ultimate gauge for guys, guys or
gals that I've seen that aresuccessful.
They ultimately, if you look atthe big picture, they just are
so good at adding value topeople around them and whether
it's their partners or whetherit's brokers like I have some
investors that I work with thatcould easily go and take deals

(47:50):
around me or cut me out if theywanted to Like I'm just thinking
of an example here but justcontinue to bring me in on deals
and add value to me, becauseI've added value to them and
it's just kind of a momentumthing and a you know and and.
But I think, like you, likeyou're saying, adding value to
people is ultimately kind of ontop of hard work, how you

(48:11):
continue to have success.
I think.

Speaker 4 (48:13):
Yeah, I mean what I've found is the most
successful people have teamsaround them.
Yeah, I mean what I've found isthe most successful people have
teams around them.
Yeah, you know there are peoplethat do it on their own, but
you know that's one of those.
You know they burn out quickerthan the ones that have support
and so usually those successfulguys you want to be like usually
will welcome you because theywant support and you know it's
kind of like a rising tide liftsall boats, like if they're

(48:34):
doing well, everybody around isgoing to do well.
Everybody wins.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
Yeah, solid boats, like if they're doing well,
everybody rounds gonna do well,everybody wins.
You know, yeah, that's a,that's exactly right.
I love that.
You said that.
Your your dad kind of said thatand uh, I'm right now
contemplating on like hiring anassistant to like on a salary or
something and do it.
It's uh, it's been, I've been,I've been kind of like the one
man show and I'm burning out man.
I'm quite literally spent andI'm like I gotta hire somebody
to do all these tasks and Ithink it's uh 82.
I gotta focus on some.

(49:03):
10x is I don't know if you readthe book, 10x is easier than 2x
, um, so is that the 10x rule?

Speaker 4 (49:09):
or if I don't go in there.
I like that one, yeah, yeahit's.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
I think it's a similar type of thing, but I'm
focusing on 100% of my tasks andI'm not able to focus on the
20% that I'm really good at anddelegating the other 80%, and so
I think that that's a reallygood.
Further step is having a greatteam around you.
Right now, it's me and atransaction coordinator.
I think this is something youwill benefit from as well.

(49:35):
You and I need to, after this,have conversation on, like, what
does it look like to havesomebody that's like doing some
of the 80 tasks for you?

Speaker 4 (49:42):
so I think it's a really good idea yeah, and like
for me, like at our office, likewe work several deals, um, with
a lot of people and you knowthey'll respect they're
splitting the fee up a bunch ofdifferent ways, but it works out
because you know, yes, it'sgetting split up, you know
thinner margins but you'regetting more done.
Yeah, and these also, like all,we're not each other's

(50:04):
assistants, obviously, um, butwe're trying to help each other
get stuff done like an assistantwould in a way, and we're all
commissioned based and so we allwant to do the best job
possible on the deal.
Yeah, and so it's one of thosethings where you know you can
trust that that person will, youknow, do well in the meeting
without you or make the callsthey need to.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
If you are not able to make it, yes, they will get
paid just about as you do yeahso that's the way I see it too
that's a that's a really goodpoint, because delegating like
when people are looking to likeyou matt, to like make the
decision they want you like howhow do you have a team around
you that you feel comfortablewith giving the same sort of
advice?
And right now I'm strugglingwith I don't know if anyone else

(50:41):
can give the same advice that Igive.
There are a few other people,but they don't want to be my
assistant, so that's somethingI'm struggling with right now.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Real estate is beautiful in the fact that it's
built to have good teams, goodpartners.
It doesn't just have to besomeone internal and somebody
you partner with.
Like I see a broker as someoneI partner with and we were
talking about it.
When you were saying like keysto being a successful broker, I
was thinking that almost in theinvestment side, like before
you're giving anyone money ortime like reputation should be

(51:09):
super.
Whether they have a reputation,reputation is super important
to them and someone on your teamor who you're partnering with,
which real estate is built sowell to be able to partner with.
And then something else wetalked about I wanted to hit
back on was data like knowingthe data or having access to the
data.
Like Tom we just talked about,he's saying if you don't have

(51:32):
that answer.
Say it and hey, I don't know,but I'll tell you by the end of
the day.
I can get that data for it,like here's what rents are for
today.
But you're asking me rents inthree months.
You know, in three months, sixmonths, 12 months.
I could probably evaluate thatfor you and get that back to you
and it yeah, that's definitelygood advice, that's, I mean,

(51:52):
it's.

Speaker 4 (51:52):
it's so much better to just say I don't know, but
I'll find out asap, instead ofjust acting like as bad as you
want to know.
But of course, the best thingof all is to just already know,
but obviously that's not alwaysthe case.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Yeah, so that's something your dad said.
He's like some of these bigpeople you sit on meetings with
like do not even act, likeyou're, like you know everything
.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Like just say hey, I don't know right now, but I'll
estate like being fast to knowthat, like you, you learn, you
don't.
You're not always having to golook up the information.
You start to pick up thosepieces of each separate deal.
You're picking up knowledgethat you're taking that's all

(52:30):
it's all about reps.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
Yeah, was there a getting into the business, and
even right now is there or wasthere a book, podcast or
anything that really helpedshape like your mindset around
the business or business ingeneral?

Speaker 4 (52:46):
Man.
You know, that's kind of aninteresting thing I've been
thinking about lately is there'snot a whole lot of commercial
real estate content out there?
There's not.
I mean I'll go on YouTube orwhatever and I'll find some guy
with like 20 followers post avideo that's not very well done
or edited.
You know, I think there's areal gap there, like there's not

(53:08):
.
I mean you can find anythingabout anything on social media
or YouTube or just out there onthe internet to help you learn
something, except for incommercial real estate.
So I mean there's really.
I mean there's a couplepodcasts that touch on it.
Yeah, you know a guy namedJustin Waller I like a lot.
He talks about it a lot, butthat's not his main thing.
Yeah, but you know there's beena few books, like the 10X Rule
we mentioned earlier.
I mean, I know Grant Cardonegets some hate sometimes, but he

(53:30):
feels like he's a scammer orwhatever.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
And, like well, 10x Rule is working really hard.
It's a super intense book,right?
Nothing scammy about that.
Right um the art of the deal is, like you know, he has a ton of
experience in development andlike, uh, it's really
interesting, like his card, Iwas going to go there too like
there is such a gap in thecommercial.
You know, hey, we're trying tomake a dent with that with nwa
investing podcast covers alittle like a lot of commercial
real estate actually morerecently yeah but.

Speaker 4 (53:58):
I think what about?

Speaker 2 (54:00):
uh, my like my 10x rule.
What I like about that is it'snot you know, cardones obviously
vary into real estate and moremultifamily and commercial.
And some of what he says inreal estate I don't, you know.
It doesn't say don't buy asingle family home.
Like I made 150 000 just byliving in my house for a couple
of years and moved in, like if Iwould have not cardoned it,

(54:22):
like I wouldn't have had thatfree equity.
Yeah, but you know, I like theprinciple of commercial real
estate.
I don't know how he structuresthose deals or anything, but
like the hustle, like if you'rein sales, like the hustle meant,
like the idea to 10 X and theidea to not have excuses, the
idea to like take one on thechin and keep going, that's like
and that can translate togrowing your business in any

(54:44):
field.

Speaker 4 (54:44):
And yeah, and you know one thing he touches on is
when you're setting your goals.
He encourages you to set goalsthat may be unrealistic, um,
which you know.
He says that you know somepeople detract from that and say
that's, you know, you're gonnamake people you people depressed
when they don't reach theirgoals and all that.
And he was like well, no,because if you set your goal
here but you end up here, youmay have ended up here if you

(55:05):
didn't set that crazy goal upthere.
You still got somewhere, and soit's kind of like the saying of
aim for the moon.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
Shoot for the stars.

Speaker 4 (55:13):
Shoot for the moon, land on the stars.
Yeah, shoot for the stars, landon the moon.
Or?

Speaker 1 (55:17):
whatever.
Yeah, potato, potato at thatpoint.
Yeah, I'd love to use this as aquick little section or podcast
to allow the people listeningto that are interested in
commercial real estate toconnect with you.
What's the best way, um, forthem to connect with you?
Can give your phone number,email, whatever yeah, they can
call me, it's 479-899-1917.

Speaker 4 (55:38):
I've got instagram too, just matthew, underscore
alan 57.
Um, I have a twitter account,but I don't tweet anymore.
Uh, and I got linkedin as wellwhich is probably best, um, but
yeah, do you like linkedin?
Yeah, I do, um, I think it'sprobably essential nowadays, um,
but I, I don't think I don'tencourage anyone to be in ways

(56:01):
like LinkedIn warriors thatspend just you know an
inordinate amount of time onyour day just posting paragraphs
and pictures of what you'redoing.
I feel like if you're busy andyou're like you're, you know,
doing stuff, you shouldn't havetime to just sit back, unless
you're like you know 9pm, you'reabout to go to bed, or
something like that but, yeah100%.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
I just downloaded LinkedIn and started my profile
and I'm like I didn't.
It's like it was weird.
I'm like I don't know how tooperate this platform, like it's
so difficult.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
You can't live or die by any other platform.

Speaker 4 (56:27):
It took a long time to get its stride.
I remember when it first cameplace and it was really just not
interesting, and if it was, itwasn't like these other social
media platforms.
It just took off and seeminglyimmediately.
Yeah, um, it kind of took awhile to get there, but now it's

(56:47):
one of those things where Ithink everybody needs to have
one.
Yeah, I just think it's likeeverything else, though, it's
how you use it is, you know,more important, and so, um, yeah
, I think it's good to keep upwith things and everything
you're consuming on theresomething that you probably
would like to know.
It helps you in business.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
So, yeah, matt, thank you for coming on the show with
us.
It's been a great hour.
I'm really thankful that youtook the time out of your day.
I know you're busy, yeah, andwhen your dad was in here, his
phone was blown up the wholetime.
I'm sure your phone's beenblowing up the whole time too.
I had a few buzzes I had a fewbuzzes.
Thank you for coming in with usand we're looking forward to
sharing it with our viewers.
Thank you for listening, guys.

(57:24):
Thanks for having me Appreciateit.
See you guys.
If you enjoyed this show, makesure to give us a follow on your
favorite podcast platform soyou never miss on.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
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estate insights and behind thescenes content.

Speaker 3 (57:38):
Have a question you want us to cover, send it our
way, and if you're interested insponsoring the show, visit
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Thanks for listening and we'llsee you next time.