April 8, 2024 • 44 mins
This week we visit with the illustrious John McEuen, whose fingers have danced across banjo strings to the rhythm of a music revolution. Reflecting on his journey, John transports us from his first brush with Hank Williams' "Jambalaya" to the halls of fame with the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band. Our hearts beat to the strumming of nostalgia as we explore the band's early days, their rise through the ranks of bluegrass, folk and country, and the magical intersection of music and childhood memories.
A sprinkle of Disney dust transforms our conversation, taking us from the acoustic corners of Orange County to the poignant notes played at the funeral of Mickey Mouse's voice actor, Wayne Allwine. Music's role in the tapestry of our lives is revealed in heartfelt stories, the hustle of a musician's path, and the whimsical moments that connect us to the greater narrative of Americana. Through John's multifaceted career, we uncover his habit of wearing many hats, from road managing to promoting music festivals like the Deadwood Jam.
Put on your headphones and settle in for a discussion that harmonizes the echo of a life in music with sage advice for those just beginning their journey. John and Jon share a laugh over the quirks of the industry, shared passions, and the simple joy of a well-tied knot trick. Join us for an episode that's not just an interview but a concert, filled with the melodies of life, laughter, and the unexpected chords that make every tune worth listening to.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John McEuen (00:00):
Hey, this is John McEuen and you're listening to
One Hour to Doors.
Jon Stone (00:12):
This is One Hour to Doors, a podcast about the
business and soul of thefestivals and events industry.
I am your host, Jon Stone.
Every episode of One Hour toDoors explores the people,
issues, insights and trendsimpacting the enterprise of
bringing people and communitiestogether in common cause.
Our guest today is truly aliving legend in the music
(00:36):
industry.
John McEuen is amulti-instrumentalist and wearer
of many hats in Bluegrass,americana, folk and country
music.
He won a Grammy for BestBluegrass Album in 2009.
He received the 2016Independent Music Award for Best
Americana Album.
He was inducted into theBluegrass Hall of Fame in 2017.
(01:00):
He co-founded the Nitty GrittyDirt Band in 1966.
And his 1972 album Will theCircle Be Unbroken was inducted
into the Library of Congress asone of America's most important
recordings and the Grammy Hallof Fame and the Grammy Hall of
Fame.
Particularly interesting to meis the fact that John has
(01:22):
managed to maintain a career inthe music industry for some 60
years and appears to be gainingmomentum.
Welcome to the show, John.
John McEuen (01:31):
I'm tired hearing all that yeah About that Okay.
Jon Stone (01:36):
I'm just going to ask a question right off the bat.
What is your earliest memory ofmusic as a child In first grade
my aunt had a little restaurantIn MacArthur, california.
John McEuen (01:50):
My aunt Peggy and it was a little it had like 12
seats at the counter and onetable and it was right at a
junction in the road and she hada jukebox and Hank Williams
Jamble Iow was on that jukebox.
Oh man, and I must have playedthat thing enough to make her
want to bury me in the backyard.
(02:10):
But that was amazing to me andthat was it.
Other than that the music was myparents singing Broadway songs
as we drove along in the car,you know, and singing the top
heart of my heart.
I love that melody, love themelody.
You know, that kind of musicwasn't Jamble Iow.
(02:34):
But I didn't pick that up againuntil I was maybe 15, 16 years
old.
I started listening, I startedplaying music until I was 17.
Oh wow, and at 17 and a half Iheard the Dillards at a club in
Orange County.
Dillards were the Darlingfamily on the Andy Griffith show
and I heard that five stringbanjo and Rodney Dillard let's
(03:01):
say he's a lifelong friend now.
I got to know the Dillards andRodney mainly, and it changed my
life.
It was a college student and Ibecame a failing college student
.
Well, I didn't fail that here.
I was a 3.8 high school student.
That that my first F was incalculus.
(03:25):
Actually it was a D.
It wasn't an F, I got it,probably got a D, but that was
because I was playing banjo allthe time in the music room and
music room at the college andcopying Doug Dillard as much as
I could.
It was 18, 19 years old, youknow, obsessed with banjo, so it
(03:47):
was banjo your first instrumentno guitar for six months.
And then I heard the banjo at 17and a half, I see, and at 18
years old my father gave me afive string banjo for my
birthday that my brother hadpicked out.
My father didn't know anythingabout it.
Go find Johnny a banjo, youknow.
And he did at a college.
(04:07):
He did at a guitar store inLong Beach called McCabe's
Guitar Shop, which was where thenitty gritty dirt ban got
together in 1966.
Oh really, yeah, a few years,everything is.
When I read about my life, I go, oh, that's an interesting
script, you know, I ended up.
(04:30):
I ended up hanging out atMcCabe's.
I went to Long Beach StateCollege just because it was only
seven minutes away fromMcCabe's.
Jon Stone (04:38):
Well, you and you and I, we talked on the phone a
week or two ago and I sharedwith you that my earliest memory
of music.
I know that I was not yet fouryears old by virtue of
understanding where my familylived at the time, right, and in
the mornings, my dad, when he'dbe getting ready for work, he
would shave in the bathroom andhe'd have the door open and he'd
(05:00):
have a little cassette playerin there and he always, every
day, listened to dirt band andcredence.
And those are the firstmemories in my head of listening
to and enjoying music.
So I'm sorry, it's a kind of astrange full circle to be
sitting here speaking with yousome 50 years later.
John McEuen (05:20):
I'm sorry to have messed up your childhood.
Jon Stone (05:26):
When was your first public performance and what was
that?
John McEuen (05:28):
like.
Well, I did magic tricks for awhile.
I was a magician at 15, 16years old and I did about 20, 25
shows.
But the first musicalperformance I don't really
remember it was one of the clubsin Orange County.
It was either the Golden Bearor the Mona Mee or the Paradox.
(05:54):
Oh, that was the same place.
They changed names and Sid'sBlue Beet was where my brother
and I worked as a duo.
We had a job for two months.
We played every Friday andSaturday, made $100 a piece.
That was a lot of money then.
Wow, yeah, it was a lot ofdough then and it's about the
(06:18):
same now actually.
Jon Stone (06:20):
Yeah, I was going to say that would be a fair rate
today yeah.
John McEuen (06:24):
Yeah, we played Bluegrass.
We played Jimmy Martin musicand Flatts and Scruggs and
Dillard songs.
He played guitar and sang.
He passed away a few years ago.
He was my manager, managed thedirt band.
I mean, here's a couple of kidsplaying kids.
I just say because I was 18, 19, 20 and he was five years older
(06:44):
Playing at this club or thatclub Every now and then, like a
few times a month, we would play.
Then the dirt band got togetherin 1966 and Did the dirt band
take off pretty quickly.
No, we put out our first album.
It had a minor hit on it, buyFor Me the Rain, which was a
(07:07):
pretty good song written by somefriends.
It was one of the only two ofthe only songs that we were
doing that this producer likes.
So he signed us DeliveryRecords and we made three more
albums that did progressivelyworse and you know they had a
cult following to be nice and Iloved them.
(07:29):
They were really well.
I loved parts of them.
I was playing banjo guitar,mandolin and lap guitar and
anyway.
And then our fifth album wasUncle Charlie and his dog Teddy.
That's when we started gettingout there.
That had some of Shelly's bluesand House of Poo Corner and Mr
Bojangles and my brotherproduced that album and it had
(07:54):
some bluegrass on it and EarlScruggs heard that bluegrass and
he came to see the band.
We played Nashville for thefirst time at the college there
at Vanderbilt.
His son Gary brought us andbrought the whole Scruggs family
with him and that was a bigshock to me.
You can find information aboutall of that and you can find the
(08:15):
video of Earl meeting me andthe rest of the band.
My brother had a Sony videocamera and he was shooting.
It's black and white and it'samazing that this was captured.
This is usually something youjust talk about, but no Earl
(08:36):
sitting there listening watchingme play.
When he came in, I asked himEarl Scruggs, what are you
coming to see us for?
Jon Stone (08:46):
Yeah, "what are you doing here?
".
John McEuen (08:49):
I mean we'd saw him two years before at the Grand
Old Opry when my brother and Imade our way out in the pickup
truck to go see the Opry.
It was sold out that hot AugustSaturday night.
But the back windows were open,the big windows in the north
side of the Ryman were up and wewent around back and right.
(09:12):
When I looked in, Lester Flatwent up to the mic and said Earl
and I are going to bring outMama Maybell Carter to do the
Wildwood flower, and the placewent nuts.
And I did too.
You can see, can you see thestage from the window?
Oh, yeah, yeah, it was like onerow back behind the back row.
It was a perfect view.
(09:35):
I don't know why that happened.
Why was it right?
When I walked up to that windowand I said to my brother I got
to record with those guys ormeet them or get their autograph
, I wasn't any good.
Then there wasn't a nittygritty, dirt band.
It was 1965.
And you know I had to get aband together.
(10:00):
And oh, let's call me up, let'sstop in.
The bass player that plays withme now on the road called me up
in 1966.
He was 17.
And hey, we're getting the bandtogether here at the McCabe's
Guitar Shop.
You want to come play with us?
And I went, okay, I'll give youthe shot.
And that shot lasted 50 years.
Jon Stone (10:23):
Wow, you know you mentioned the shock of seeing
that video footage of EarlScruggs meeting you.
As time goes on, that'ssomething that just fascinates
me more and more.
How much stuff is turning up onthe internet?
Yeah, Somebody had a camera,you know it's just amazing.
John McEuen (10:41):
Well, this somebody was my brother who ended up.
Six months later I went to aclub Earl was playing and I
asked him if he'd record withthe nitty gritty dirt band and
he said I'd be proud to.
And I asked Doc Watson the nextnight playing the same club Hi,
doc, I'm glad to be you.
We're doing an album with EarlScruggs.
(11:02):
We weren't doing an album.
He said I'd be proud to recordwith us and Doc said yes.
My brother said I'm going toget Merle Travis.
On Monday he got Merle Travis,who always wanted to meet Doc
Watson.
Tuesday Earl got us MaybelleCarter.
(11:22):
But, earl, do you thinkMaybelle Carter might be
interested?
I'd love Maybelle Carter foryears before the Dirt Band and
Flatts and Scruggs in an albumcalled Songs of the Famous
Carter Family and I ate it up in1963.
I wanted to do Keep on theSunny Side with Maybelle as well
(11:44):
as a few other songs.
But I thought that wasimportant and we asked his wife,
Louise, who managed Earl Louise, do you think you could get
Jimmy Martin for us?
Well, I'll give him a call.
So that was really fun.
And she got Jimmy Martin andthe rest is history.
Jon Stone (12:02):
And the rest is history.
John McEuen (12:03):
And the dirt band was on the road making concerts
and had doing other albums.
We did All the Good Times andStars and Stripes Forever.
Right after the Circle album.
We did 21 shows leading up togoing to Nashville to record the
Circle album, which took sixdays.
Six days to record that To 34songs, and they were a couple of
(12:29):
12-hour days, a couple ofsix-hour, seven-hour days.
Jon Stone (12:35):
That's incredible, that's hard for me to wrap my
mind around.
John McEuen (12:38):
Well, there were a lot of first takes because we
just knew that.
Roy Acuff, he told us boys, wegot to get it right the first
time and the hell with the restof them.
And that's what he said andit's on the record.
Jon Stone (12:54):
You know, in the studio over the years I've
watched, true, first takemusicians and marveled at them,
but I've never been a first takemusician.
John McEuen (13:07):
Well, you know Frank Sinatra.
What's his name?
The lead singer in Alabama,kenny Rogers A lot of people.
If Sinatra didn't get it inthat first take, like Kenny
Rogers, he would move on.
Well, I don't know that one.
Listen, I'll come back to itlater on.
Let's do it some other time.
(13:29):
But you know, you do, it isdifferent.
It's like playing live, if youthink of it that way.
Jon Stone (13:36):
Do you suppose some of those guys like let's just
take Kenny Rogers, is theirability to first take?
Is that just like?
I mean, they're just naturallygifted that way?
Or is it a reflection of theydid an enormous amount of work
on the front end so that theycould come in and get in the
first take.
John McEuen (13:52):
I think it's a reflection of several things
that they have a lot of talentand they have a lot of drive and
they have a lot of input.
All that leads up to themrehearsing and learning the song
.
Why do you go into a studiowhen you don't know a song?
You?
Jon Stone (14:12):
yeah.
John McEuen (14:13):
I mean it's.
I understand the point of somegroups.
I have even done it myself,where you go in and work up a
song and you add to it andyou've got a dog and you've do
it and it takes two days maybe,but there's a dentist.
Go, let's see what tooth wasthat?
Was that?
Minnie Mouse (14:30):
Oh, what's wrong.
John McEuen (14:32):
You know good point .
You know there's a pilot on theplane.
Yeah, we'll be getting toPittsburgh and about it.
Oh, no, we're going toPhiladelphia, we're going to
right point taken, so why not doit?
It's a lot cheaper too.
Jon Stone (14:48):
I'm gonna ask you to humor me for a second.
You said something earlier thattriggered a thought you had
mentioned your firstperformances were actually a
magic show, a magic routine, andI read somewhere that you
worked at Disneyland as ateenager, correct?
John McEuen (15:02):
I wanted to get a job at the magic shop in
Disneyland when I was 16.
Steve Martin did too.
He was working in venture landat the time.
We both got the job on the sameday.
Jon Stone (15:13):
It was like at the magic shop.
John McEuen (15:15):
Yeah, hooray, we were.
I mean, steve was a 16 year oldand so was I.
Neither one of us played music.
We worked there for three yearsand it was a wonderful time.
Jon Stone (15:26):
So here's my question for you Did you ever see Walt
Disney like in the flesh?
John McEuen (15:31):
Three times Disney came to the park while I was
working there.
One time he was walked over tothe wishing well with the
entourage.
The wishing well was rightoutside of the fantasy land
castle, on the right side rightand they're trying to solve a
problem.
He'd had a bunch of statues madeof snow white and the seven
(15:51):
dwarfs in Italy and had themshipped to Disneyland.
They all came.
They were all the same size.
So snow white and the sevendwarfs were all the same size,
which didn't quite make sense.
Yeah, and Disney's, he didn'twant to ship them back.
Okay, he didn't want to makenew seven dwarfs and keep the
(16:16):
snow white.
And he didn't want to make asnow white that was in scale,
because she'd be like 25 feettall, you know.
So he goes here's what we doand make a waterfall.
He said make a waterfall withthe perspective of it going up
the hill to the top of thewaterfall and put snow white up
(16:37):
there and and put the dwarfsdown here in the foreground.
Jon Stone (16:42):
It will force perspective.
John McEuen (16:44):
It will force perspective and it looks right.
Wow, what a great memory.
And the other memory was one ofthem he was.
They didn't let him out of thefirehouse.
Firehouse the firehouse on MainStreet is where he had an
apartment, and one time he wasjust a little too tipsy.
(17:04):
That's what the word was and.
I'm gonna.
And then the other time we waswalking around the park and it
was like Wow, you know it'sreally cool.
But he certainly had the vision.
My daughter I started takingher to Disneyland when she was
four years old and when she wasin high school she did a term
(17:27):
paper on Walt Disney and and theyears went by and my strange
career led to me playing at thefuneral of Mickey Mouse.
What I got?
A call one morning.
My wife said it's some ladywith a high voice.
Minnie Mouse (17:46):
Yeah, well, my husband just died and he was
your biggest fan and I wouldjust love it if you'd play in
his funeral.
John McEuen (17:56):
And I?
What did he do?
Minnie Mouse (17:58):
for 35 years he was a voice of Mickey Mouse,
really the yes, his name wasWayne all-white and he played
trumpet and piano and banjo andguitar.
Anyway, he was a.
John McEuen (18:14):
He was a big fan he had my solo albums and I think
he had a couple dirt band albums.
I said what do you do, ma'am?
I do the voice of Minnie andExcuse me, you do Minnie Mouse
and your husband does Mickey.
Yeah.
Jon Stone (18:34):
So was he actually the fellow that did Mickey after
Walt passed?
John McEuen (18:40):
No, Walt only did it a little bit, but he did
Mickey for 35 years and shetried out for many.
He approved her and so they gotmarried the next year and I'm
out there at Forest Law and acouple of days later, standing
next to Wayne Allwine's coffin,Mickey's coffin, playing to a
(19:02):
bunch of people.
Well, they weren't people, theywere like Pluto, Goofy, the
fairy, godmother and all thosekinds of voice actors.
Kermit was even there and I didabout 100 people, I did about a
20 minute little set and shehands me his banjo and goes it's
time for the song.
I start playing the Vicky Mousesong Ding ding, ding, ding,
(19:27):
ding, ding, ding, ding, ding,ding, ding, ding, ding, ding,
ding and everybody startssinging M-I-C-K-E-Y-M-O-U-S-E.
And it got really weird.
Wow, it got really weirdbecause when it got to the part
Mickey Mouse, it gets to thepart M-I-C.
She walks up to the coffin,M-I-C.
Minnie Mouse (19:46):
She goes see you real soon.
John McEuen (19:50):
It was really.
Jon Stone (19:54):
That is surreal.
John McEuen (19:56):
I never did acid.
I never did any drugs I didn'tneed to.
I had things like this going on.
Jon Stone (20:02):
That is probably the most surreal thing I've ever
heard, but it's also kind ofbeautiful.
John McEuen (20:07):
Yes, it was and K-E-Y why?
Because I love you.
And it was like really strangewhen they had the dozen doves
that they let go two at a timeand they flew around the little
grass area and they flew outover one area and that one area
where Walt Disney was buried hiscrypt was right, they flew
(20:32):
right over it.
The hair stand on my arm rightnow just thinking about that Me
too.
I was just like wow, anyway,that's a strange career of mine.
I've played with Roy Ac uff,I've played with Williw Nelson,
leon Russell.
You know Steve Vai, you knowwho that is, of course, and I
(20:54):
and I we did doing banjos and abenefit for dogs.
Jon Stone (20:59):
Really, is that on?
Can I find that on YouTube?
John McEuen (21:02):
No, no, I don't think so.
I'm going to try.
It was in somebody's backyard.
It was in somebody's backyard.
Nobody had video cameras.
Jon Stone (21:12):
Again.
When we were talking a coupleof weeks ago, you mentioned that
, at least on the early part ofyour career with the dirt band,
you're actually wearing morethan one hat in addition to
playing in the band.
You said you were road managingas well while you guys were on
tour.
John McEuen (21:30):
Well, when we started, I was 21.
I was 20, but by the time wehad our first hit, I was 21 and
we would go on the road.
I was the only one old enoughto rent a car, and so I had to
go rent the car and I had todrive it.
You had to drive it and I hadto know where it was going, and
(21:51):
you can't expect the 18-year-oldthat's having not their first
beer, but anyway, there's abunch of goofballs out on the
road.
Jon Stone (22:00):
Well, that had to have been tough for you, or was
it I?
John McEuen (22:04):
thought it was fun.
It was part of the deal, partof the challenge, part of the
thing.
Everybody had their own.
Some people pulled differentweights.
It was a good thing.
I also promoted concerts Overthe years.
I had six children and I don'tcare who you are If you're
playing in a country, rock orwhatever band it was.
(22:26):
It takes a lot of money toraise six kids in the Rocky
Mountains, and I mean it takesto raise them nice to pay for
the heating and the gas.
Our house was here and the highschool was over there 14 miles
and the grade school was overhere 13 miles.
(22:47):
So if you had to take the kidsto school, you take the sports,
though, or if they missed a bus,or if there was a play or if
there was whatever.
Jon Stone (22:57):
So the cost of raising the large family was
part of what was driving you towork so hard for so long.
John McEuen (23:04):
I don't know, I think it was for sure.
It made me do other things.
It made me play solo.
I did my first solo gig withinthe Dirt Band in 1977.
I had been playing solo beforethe band started Our playing
with other people, like MichaelMartin Murphy.
I did six months with him in1965.
(23:26):
I ended up playing on five ofhis albums.
That was nice.
I played with other people andso I started promoting concerts
or doing concerts in Deadwood,South Dakota.
I was playing up there once andthe women running the show
three different ladies what ifwe do a concert up here?
Minnie Mouse (23:46):
You think we could do a concert or a show.
John McEuen (23:49):
Anyway, would you help us In 1990, they didn't
know anything about musicpromotion or whatever I said.
Well, I think we should do ashow and call it the Deadwood
Jam.
It ended up being a two dayshow, friday and Saturday, from
noon to 10 o'clock every day.
Each day I booked a lot ofpeople like Leon Russell,
(24:13):
fabulous Thunderbirds, ramblin,jack Kelly, art, ligothry,
america a broad variety ofmid-range acts, a couple of well
, some people would think ofthem as more than mid-range, but
in the realities of showbiz itwas a gig, it was a show.
It was in the middle of nowherein Deadwood, south Dakota.
It was a two day concert.
(24:34):
It was really fun.
Then I booked some promotionsfor corporate shows Jansport
you're familiar with JansportCompany.
I'm very familiar with Jansport.
I worked with Skip Yal, one ofthe guys that created it.
I learned a lot from him.
Jon Stone (24:50):
So another small universe example For a few years
, skip was my next door neighborwhen I was a child.
Oh wow.
John McEuen (25:01):
Small world Did he sell?
Jon Stone (25:02):
popcorn, then I have no recollection of popcorn.
I was just a little kid.
John McEuen (25:08):
He loved popcorn.
We marketed it on the side.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, he passed away severalyears ago.
Jon Stone (25:18):
So most musicians do not manage to extend their
career across a lifetime.
How have you managed to do that?
John McEuen (25:30):
Still trying to make it.
I guess you know when you havefriends like John Denver, who I
met when he was John Duchen-Dorfplaying in the Chad Mitchell
trio, then he left and becameJohn Denver and handed me an
album one night in Houston andsaid hey, john, I think this got
(25:50):
a hit on it.
The record company says theyreally like it here, take it
home.
Well, you better sign it.
Anyway, it was Country Roadsand it was a hit.
It was a giant.
It started his career for real.
When you have people like JoseFeliciano, who I met when he was
17 and drove him around weplayed clubs in Southern
California.
(26:11):
I remember once, after a coupleof years, he goes hey, john,
can you take me to the IrvineCollege?
I've got a gig up there.
Oh sure, I figured he's playinga coffee house or something you
know.
Yeah, I get there and thegymnasium is full of people
waiting to see Jose Feliciano.
I ended up playing a couplesongs with him but he did the
(26:31):
show and he killed Like my firehad been out for about two
months the Jose version which Iwas proud of, instead of that
weirdo Jim Morrison.
Jose did a lot better with thatsong.
Jon Stone (26:48):
You know, when I look through your full discography,
your full story.
If I had to use one word tosummarize it, it would be
collaboration.
You appear to have collaboratedin one form or another with
just about everybody.
John McEuen (27:06):
As far as I can, tell Well, quite a few people.
Yeah, I've been very lucky.
Jon Stone (27:12):
Yeah, that's remarkable.
John McEuen (27:13):
You know, it's very .
You say you studied Walt Disney.
Jon Stone (27:18):
Yeah, I've become kind of fascinated with him over
the last 10 or 15 years.
John McEuen (27:23):
Well, he was a good example of somebody that did it
a little strange.
Walt Disney presents Well, whatabout all the people that made
this thing?
What about the artist?
What about the guy that createdGoofy?
What about Walt Disney presents?
Now, I understand that that isthe way some people work, but I
(27:44):
like collaboration and I try togive people credit and then they
end up making it, Steve Martinbeing one of the early ones.
My brother started managing him.
That was really a wonderfulthing.
Bill, you got to come see Steve.
He's really being funny.
He's really cracking me up andsome other people and some of
(28:07):
the audience.
I got tapes of Steve withpeople who are laughing like and
people is like 20 or 30 peoplein a club, you know, and he's
doing these silly bits.
I was there, you know theexcuse me, routine.
Jon Stone (28:26):
Well, excuse me, you familiar with that.
I'm very familiar with that one.
John McEuen (28:30):
I was there the night he did that the first time
.
Wow, in San Francisco he waseither opening for the dirt band
or I was opening for him.
He said look, I'm going to dothis thing next in my set, where
I'm going to say I want thelights changed and I've told the
light man do not change thelights, no matter what I say, do
(28:50):
not change the lights.
Would you go up in the lightbooth and make sure he doesn't
change the lights?
I went, okay, sure, I'm goingto do a little bit of a mellow
thing.
I could use some light, bluelight, and I'm getting a da, da,
da, da, da.
I could use some light, someblue light, blue Lights don't
(29:17):
change, they're all bright.
I you know it gets into thatthing.
What's?
Minnie Mouse (29:23):
up.
I figure you know more aboutshow business than I do.
I'm down here, it's my ass, andda, da, da da.
John McEuen (29:30):
If you don't think it well, excuse me.
And the place was worried.
They were this guy's goingcrazy.
Yeah, and nobody's ever seen acomedian like that right yeah,
on stage.
He's assaulting the light man,calling him an idiot, and when
he went, excuse me, he startsplaying the banjo.
(29:52):
The place just exploded, I'mtelling you.
You couldn't hear anything butlaughter for two minutes.
Jon Stone (30:02):
No, I mean, that was when he became a cultural
phenomenon.
I can remember that time, I canremember those shows, I can
remember those routines, but Iwas still pretty young so I
didn't necessarily like actuallyunderstand all of the humor.
It was his physicality is whatwas cracking me.
John McEuen (30:18):
Yeah he was really good as a child.
Jon Stone (30:21):
But what Steve Martin means to me from that time is I
can remember my father.
My dad is an electrician, acommercial industrial
electrician.
My dad has literally worked hisbutt off his entire life hard
physical labor, and so when hewas home he'd usually be
(30:41):
exhausted.
But I can remember when he'dwatched those Steve Martin
specials he would laugh hard Ithink the hardest I've ever seen
my old man laugh in his lifeand that made me as a child.
It just made me feel so good tosee my father enjoying himself
(31:02):
for that half hour special orwhatever it was so.
you produced Steve's album.
Say more about that.
John McEuen (31:10):
My brother produced his first four albums, the
comedy albums.
That was in the 70s and 1980.
And then he started getting towhere he wanted them.
I moved to New York City for aperiod of five, six years
because I needed to make somenew things happen.
I had exhausted LA and one ofthe things that happened was
Steve called one day and saidhey, can you come over to my
(31:32):
place?
And well, sure, and I went overto his place and listened to
five banjo tunes, or maybe six,just the banjo recorded on his
computer, and you think he'salready good.
I said, steve, those are realgood.
You got to make an album.
Then I got to produce it.
Why do you have to produce it?
(31:54):
Because I know you, you lovemusic.
You love Music, man.
Appalachian Spring is one ofyour favorite albums and you
like Flatts and Scruggs of 1948,1952 era.
And I know you and I know allthat.
You got to trouble my friendright here in Music City.
Well, I'm sure I'm a billiardplayer, I like the same things
(32:17):
and you appreciate Disneyland.
We both did and I got the job.
You didn't think that music was.
You think this music is anygood, steve?
You're going to have to go onthe road and play it.
No, I can't, I can't go out, Ican't, I'm done performing.
No, you aren't.
(32:37):
And here's the thing when yougo out with a successful album
which this one will besuccessful, I'm not sure how
much, but it'll do some good foryou you stand there for three
or four minutes playing the songand you can think about what is
the next thing you're going tosay, and then you stand there
(32:59):
for three or four minutesplaying the song.
In other words, you're onlygoing to have to be funny or do
what Steve Martin does for 20minutes out of 75.
Right, right.
He started performing and thenhe found a band in North
Carolina and they went out.
And anyway, it worked reallywell for him.
Jon Stone (33:19):
A couple of questions just for fun, for all of the
travels around the world thatyou've done as a musician.
Two questions Firstapproximately how many countries
do you think you've visited 15.
Okay, so of those, if you hadto live somewhere other than the
United States, would it be oneof those countries or would it
(33:39):
be one of?
So which one?
John McEuen (33:41):
Oh, that's a hard one to guess.
France, why?
That's just pretty, it's niceand they have good food.
There's no artificialingredients.
There's no artificial flavorsand colors and there's great
crops France or Italy.
It's a toss up, maybe becausethey're close to Ireland.
Both of them and Ireland'salways fun.
Jon Stone (34:01):
I would like to visit Ireland a lot.
It's been on my list for a longtime.
Minnie Mouse (34:05):
You're old enough, just over yeah.
John McEuen (34:08):
Yeah, what do you mean by that?
You're old enough to go.
Jon Stone (34:12):
Yeah, you think they'd let me in?
Yeah.
John McEuen (34:15):
I mean you save up a certain amount of money, buy a
cheap ticket.
You can get there for five, sixhundred dollars.
I'd like to visit Galway.
Yeah, You're old enough.
Jon Stone (34:28):
Second question, just for fun.
So we've talked about thisextraordinary amount of
collaboration that you haveaccomplished over the years.
Have you ever been, or do youever still get, starstruck?
John McEuen (34:42):
Starstruck by somebody.
Jon Stone (34:44):
Yeah.
John McEuen (34:47):
I opened for Celine Dion one time at a benefit
thing.
Wow really.
And if I was going to getstarstruck it seemed like that
would be it.
But she was just a regularperson.
It's funny how that works.
She was really nice.
We took a picture together ofan album I'd produced of a bunch
of guys in Africa.
Anyway, she was very sweet,very nice.
(35:08):
And Dolly Parton, I don't know,she's just.
I'm going to open a makeup line, cost a lot of money to look
this cheap.
She's very funny.
Jon Stone (35:20):
She is a comedian in her own right yeah.
John McEuen (35:23):
And Johnny Cash.
Now there was a character.
There was a real complicatedrecorded with him, played with
him a dozen times, hung outwhere he was and starstruck the
ones that act like stars.
I can do without.
Jon Stone (35:42):
You know nice to meet him.
John McEuen (35:45):
Nice to meet you.
You got lucky with those threechords, is what I'd like to say
to him.
But one of my new friends is aman named even Stevens.
You ever heard his name?
I have not.
He wrote a great book calledSomeday I'm Gonna Rent this Town
, about Nashville.
He came here absolutely dirtpoor and anyway he's written
(36:10):
songs like when You're in Lovewith a Beautiful Woman, ooh, I'm
Driving my Life Away, rainyDays.
He wrote half of Eddie Rabbit'shits and he wrote a bunch of
songs, Even Stevens, yeah and heis one of the most mellow,
nicest guys.
I mean, when I met him I'dnever heard of him really.
(36:33):
We became friends startingabout a year ago and we're going
to do something together.
I don't know what, but there'sa collaboration.
But he's like a non-star, youknow Right that.
A well-known anyway.
Jon Stone (36:49):
You know who I have met.
That kind of strikes me in thatsame way is Brian Setzer.
You know Brian Setzer.
Yes, he was a very nice guy.
I've produced a couple of hisshows Brian Setzer Orchestra and
the way he stood out he reallysurprised me because he shows up
with the crew call in themorning and he would push boxes
(37:12):
and he would hump cable.
And I remember mid-afternoon ofsetup he came to my production
office and say, hey, Jon, yougot a second, can you come out
here and check something out?
And we'd go out into like thebleachers, out into the seats,
and we would sit at differentlike the back row or far left,
far right, and he'd ask mequestions about like what do I
(37:34):
think about the sight lines orwhat do I think about this.
My point being, he is singularof focus.
He wants to put on the bestpossible show experience for his
audience.
He's just obsessed with it.
He'd take all of his meals withthe crew.
He'd only take about, as Irecall, 15, 20 minutes for
himself just before the show tochange and get ready to go.
(37:57):
But absolutely upstandingcharacter that Brian Setzer.
John McEuen (38:02):
Yeah, I did a birthday party for him one time.
It was really fun.
I mean that was years ago.
That was Stray Cats Day inNashville.
Yeah, he's an exceptional guy.
Jon Stone (38:12):
For all of the collaboration that you've done.
Is there anybody that you stillwant to collaborate with but
you have not had the opportunity?
John Fogarty and.
John McEuen (38:23):
Paul McCartney.
I'd like to play a banjo parton a Paul McCartney song.
Jon Stone (38:28):
Well, you answered that question pretty fast Well.
John McEuen (38:30):
I've wanted to for 30 years, 40 years.
And John Fogarty is somebodythat I just love.
His music, it's his voice, hisattitude, his non-starship,
stardom.
Jon Stone (38:45):
Well, not to turn your own words around on you,
but you're old enough to do that, you know.
John McEuen (38:50):
Yeah, but they have to want it, yeah.
Oh, paul McCartney, you'regoing to really need me to play
the banjo in your record.
Jon Stone (39:01):
Oh, you never know, you're right.
I'm imagining that right now.
It sounds great in my head.
John McEuen (39:07):
Well, I play guitar too, and mandolin, and I might
end up playing something else.
Jon Stone (39:14):
What's up next?
You're working on an album.
Right now I have an album.
John McEuen (39:17):
I have an album coming out April 12th that I
think is, oh, I think it's thebest work I've done.
It's called the Newsman andit's a spoken word but with
music behind it.
I've done about 14 film scores.
It's like an album that's asoundtrack for a movie that
(39:39):
hasn't been made.
Now there's been a lot ofspoken word from Hank Williams
Sr and there's one of his cutson there that I did and to Music
Band.
You got Trouble, my friendsright here in River City.
That's what got me into spokenword.
Before I played music I waslearning the River City thing.
(39:59):
Oh, two stories, one that Iwrote, you know, I mean there
was even a recent spoken wordthe devil went down to Georgia.
You know, nobody thinks of that, but that was like a talking
blues song, right, and thatlittle part where he played like
this and firing them out andrun, boys run.
There's little singing sections.
(40:20):
But anyway, the Newsman.
There's a piece on therewritten by a guy in Vietnam at a
battle, talking about thebattle, and that was really
tough to read.
We were just boys when we goton that helicopter to the flight
, to the fight, you know,expected to act like men.
(40:42):
We got off that chopper andthey handed us a gun and said
you don't have to win.
If you want to live, just keepyour head low.
And it goes on, it's anyway.
Jon Stone (40:57):
Is this an idea, this album, is this concept an idea
that you've been kicking aroundin your head for some time?
Or is it something that's cometo you recently?
John McEuen (41:04):
It's been about 10 years, yeah, but I also have a
couple of these pieces that Ilearned 20 years ago and one of
them from the 70s.
I'm not going to get an awardfor being a singer.
I know that although I sing bigdeal.
You know there's a lot ofsingers out there and the
instrumental section there's somany great instrumentalists out
(41:27):
there but there's spoken wordcategory is pretty wide open.
I think I can get some tensionfor that.
Jon Stone (41:34):
John, what's a piece of advice that you would give to
musicians who are just startingout in their career and can
envision a life in music such asyou have experienced?
John McEuen (41:45):
Try to create something new.
Being a band that has the bestversion oh, you ought to hear
this band.
They do a great version ofRocky Top.
Try and create something new.
It's very, very difficult, it'snot easy.
Yeah, it's a good advice.
Find something that you cancall your own and that way, if
(42:07):
you're not successfulfinancially, you'll be proud of
your work.
And there you go.
Also, don't keep borrowingmoney.
Figure out how to make somemoney.
Point taken, I met Mac Davis ina mail room at United Artists.
He was working in the mail room.
You know he worked his way up.
(42:28):
You might say Mac Davis wrotetons of hits, but he had to find
out how the record businessworked.
Jon Stone (42:37):
Sage advice.
A couple of quick randomquestions for you, John.
What's your favorite sound?
John McEuen (42:44):
Backwards echo or that's where you record it and
then you turn it aroundbackwards and put it back in.
And harmonics when you take outthe pick noise, you know if
you're recording on Pro Toolsand the line is going by.
If you take out the pluck andyou just get the harmonic, it
makes a wonderful sound that youcan put in.
(43:06):
Or if you just do, you know youget the, but you don't get the.
You don't get the, you just get.
How do I Just get the?
That's one of my favoritesounds.
Jon Stone (43:19):
You walk into an ice cream shop and you're going to
get an ice cream cone with twoflavors.
What are the two flavors?
John McEuen (43:24):
The one the same cone.
Yes, oh, the same cone.
That's tough, we're sure of it.
As one and vanilla is another,I put those together, but I'd
keep them apart.
Jon Stone (43:36):
Which flavor goes on top?
John McEuen (43:38):
Well, I'd say the vanilla.
Jon Stone (43:41):
Okay, fair enough.
John, I want to thank you formaking the time to be with us
today.
It's been a pleasure, thank you, Thank you.
John McEuen (43:53):
I was just wondering if you can tie a knot
in the middle of a rope withoutletting go of either end, I'll
bet you can.
Something from the old days Doit like that, do it like that,
do it like this, and then, whenyou drop it over your hands, you
have a knot.
Jon Stone (44:08):
Awesome.
John McEuen (44:14):
All call one hour to doors.
Hey, this is John McEuen and you're listening to
One Hour to Doors.
Jon Stone (00:12):
This is One Hour to Doors, a podcast about the
business and soul of thefestivals and events industry.
I am your host, Jon Stone.
Every episode of One Hour toDoors explores the people,
issues, insights and trendsimpacting the enterprise of
bringing people and communitiestogether in common cause.
Our guest today is truly aliving legend in the music
(00:36):
industry.
John McEuen is amulti-instrumentalist and wearer
of many hats in Bluegrass,americana, folk and country
music.
He won a Grammy for BestBluegrass Album in 2009.
He received the 2016Independent Music Award for Best
Americana Album.
He was inducted into theBluegrass Hall of Fame in 2017.
(01:00):
He co-founded the Nitty GrittyDirt Band in 1966.
And his 1972 album Will theCircle Be Unbroken was inducted
into the Library of Congress asone of America's most important
recordings and the Grammy Hallof Fame and the Grammy Hall of
Fame.
Particularly interesting to meis the fact that John has
(01:22):
managed to maintain a career inthe music industry for some 60
years and appears to be gainingmomentum.
Welcome to the show, John.
John McEuen (01:31):
I'm tired hearing all that yeah About that Okay.
Jon Stone (01:36):
I'm just going to ask a question right off the bat.
What is your earliest memory ofmusic as a child In first grade
my aunt had a little restaurantIn MacArthur, california.
John McEuen (01:50):
My aunt Peggy and it was a little it had like 12
seats at the counter and onetable and it was right at a
junction in the road and she hada jukebox and Hank Williams
Jamble Iow was on that jukebox.
Oh man, and I must have playedthat thing enough to make her
want to bury me in the backyard.
(02:10):
But that was amazing to me andthat was it.
Other than that the music was myparents singing Broadway songs
as we drove along in the car,you know, and singing the top
heart of my heart.
I love that melody, love themelody.
You know, that kind of musicwasn't Jamble Iow.
(02:34):
But I didn't pick that up againuntil I was maybe 15, 16 years
old.
I started listening, I startedplaying music until I was 17.
Oh wow, and at 17 and a half Iheard the Dillards at a club in
Orange County.
Dillards were the Darlingfamily on the Andy Griffith show
and I heard that five stringbanjo and Rodney Dillard let's
(03:01):
say he's a lifelong friend now.
I got to know the Dillards andRodney mainly, and it changed my
life.
It was a college student and Ibecame a failing college student
.
Well, I didn't fail that here.
I was a 3.8 high school student.
That that my first F was incalculus.
(03:25):
Actually it was a D.
It wasn't an F, I got it,probably got a D, but that was
because I was playing banjo allthe time in the music room and
music room at the college andcopying Doug Dillard as much as
I could.
It was 18, 19 years old, youknow, obsessed with banjo, so it
(03:47):
was banjo your first instrumentno guitar for six months.
And then I heard the banjo at 17and a half, I see, and at 18
years old my father gave me afive string banjo for my
birthday that my brother hadpicked out.
My father didn't know anythingabout it.
Go find Johnny a banjo, youknow.
And he did at a college.
(04:07):
He did at a guitar store inLong Beach called McCabe's
Guitar Shop, which was where thenitty gritty dirt ban got
together in 1966.
Oh really, yeah, a few years,everything is.
When I read about my life, I go, oh, that's an interesting
script, you know, I ended up.
(04:30):
I ended up hanging out atMcCabe's.
I went to Long Beach StateCollege just because it was only
seven minutes away fromMcCabe's.
Jon Stone (04:38):
Well, you and you and I, we talked on the phone a
week or two ago and I sharedwith you that my earliest memory
of music.
I know that I was not yet fouryears old by virtue of
understanding where my familylived at the time, right, and in
the mornings, my dad, when he'dbe getting ready for work, he
would shave in the bathroom andhe'd have the door open and he'd
(05:00):
have a little cassette playerin there and he always, every
day, listened to dirt band andcredence.
And those are the firstmemories in my head of listening
to and enjoying music.
So I'm sorry, it's a kind of astrange full circle to be
sitting here speaking with yousome 50 years later.
John McEuen (05:20):
I'm sorry to have messed up your childhood.
Jon Stone (05:26):
When was your first public performance and what was
that?
John McEuen (05:28):
like.
Well, I did magic tricks for awhile.
I was a magician at 15, 16years old and I did about 20, 25
shows.
But the first musicalperformance I don't really
remember it was one of the clubsin Orange County.
It was either the Golden Bearor the Mona Mee or the Paradox.
(05:54):
Oh, that was the same place.
They changed names and Sid'sBlue Beet was where my brother
and I worked as a duo.
We had a job for two months.
We played every Friday andSaturday, made $100 a piece.
That was a lot of money then.
Wow, yeah, it was a lot ofdough then and it's about the
(06:18):
same now actually.
Jon Stone (06:20):
Yeah, I was going to say that would be a fair rate
today yeah.
John McEuen (06:24):
Yeah, we played Bluegrass.
We played Jimmy Martin musicand Flatts and Scruggs and
Dillard songs.
He played guitar and sang.
He passed away a few years ago.
He was my manager, managed thedirt band.
I mean, here's a couple of kidsplaying kids.
I just say because I was 18, 19, 20 and he was five years older
(06:44):
Playing at this club or thatclub Every now and then, like a
few times a month, we would play.
Then the dirt band got togetherin 1966 and Did the dirt band
take off pretty quickly.
No, we put out our first album.
It had a minor hit on it, buyFor Me the Rain, which was a
(07:07):
pretty good song written by somefriends.
It was one of the only two ofthe only songs that we were
doing that this producer likes.
So he signed us DeliveryRecords and we made three more
albums that did progressivelyworse and you know they had a
cult following to be nice and Iloved them.
(07:29):
They were really well.
I loved parts of them.
I was playing banjo guitar,mandolin and lap guitar and
anyway.
And then our fifth album wasUncle Charlie and his dog Teddy.
That's when we started gettingout there.
That had some of Shelly's bluesand House of Poo Corner and Mr
Bojangles and my brotherproduced that album and it had
(07:54):
some bluegrass on it and EarlScruggs heard that bluegrass and
he came to see the band.
We played Nashville for thefirst time at the college there
at Vanderbilt.
His son Gary brought us andbrought the whole Scruggs family
with him and that was a bigshock to me.
You can find information aboutall of that and you can find the
(08:15):
video of Earl meeting me andthe rest of the band.
My brother had a Sony videocamera and he was shooting.
It's black and white and it'samazing that this was captured.
This is usually something youjust talk about, but no Earl
(08:36):
sitting there listening watchingme play.
When he came in, I asked himEarl Scruggs, what are you
coming to see us for?
Jon Stone (08:46):
Yeah, "what are you doing here?
".
John McEuen (08:49):
I mean we'd saw him two years before at the Grand
Old Opry when my brother and Imade our way out in the pickup
truck to go see the Opry.
It was sold out that hot AugustSaturday night.
But the back windows were open,the big windows in the north
side of the Ryman were up and wewent around back and right.
(09:12):
When I looked in, Lester Flatwent up to the mic and said Earl
and I are going to bring outMama Maybell Carter to do the
Wildwood flower, and the placewent nuts.
And I did too.
You can see, can you see thestage from the window?
Oh, yeah, yeah, it was like onerow back behind the back row.
It was a perfect view.
(09:35):
I don't know why that happened.
Why was it right?
When I walked up to that windowand I said to my brother I got
to record with those guys ormeet them or get their autograph
, I wasn't any good.
Then there wasn't a nittygritty, dirt band.
It was 1965.
And you know I had to get aband together.
(10:00):
And oh, let's call me up, let'sstop in.
The bass player that plays withme now on the road called me up
in 1966.
He was 17.
And hey, we're getting the bandtogether here at the McCabe's
Guitar Shop.
You want to come play with us?
And I went, okay, I'll give youthe shot.
And that shot lasted 50 years.
Jon Stone (10:23):
Wow, you know you mentioned the shock of seeing
that video footage of EarlScruggs meeting you.
As time goes on, that'ssomething that just fascinates
me more and more.
How much stuff is turning up onthe internet?
Yeah, Somebody had a camera,you know it's just amazing.
John McEuen (10:41):
Well, this somebody was my brother who ended up.
Six months later I went to aclub Earl was playing and I
asked him if he'd record withthe nitty gritty dirt band and
he said I'd be proud to.
And I asked Doc Watson the nextnight playing the same club Hi,
doc, I'm glad to be you.
We're doing an album with EarlScruggs.
(11:02):
We weren't doing an album.
He said I'd be proud to recordwith us and Doc said yes.
My brother said I'm going toget Merle Travis.
On Monday he got Merle Travis,who always wanted to meet Doc
Watson.
Tuesday Earl got us MaybelleCarter.
(11:22):
But, earl, do you thinkMaybelle Carter might be
interested?
I'd love Maybelle Carter foryears before the Dirt Band and
Flatts and Scruggs in an albumcalled Songs of the Famous
Carter Family and I ate it up in1963.
I wanted to do Keep on theSunny Side with Maybelle as well
(11:44):
as a few other songs.
But I thought that wasimportant and we asked his wife,
Louise, who managed Earl Louise, do you think you could get
Jimmy Martin for us?
Well, I'll give him a call.
So that was really fun.
And she got Jimmy Martin andthe rest is history.
Jon Stone (12:02):
And the rest is history.
John McEuen (12:03):
And the dirt band was on the road making concerts
and had doing other albums.
We did All the Good Times andStars and Stripes Forever.
Right after the Circle album.
We did 21 shows leading up togoing to Nashville to record the
Circle album, which took sixdays.
Six days to record that To 34songs, and they were a couple of
(12:29):
12-hour days, a couple ofsix-hour, seven-hour days.
Jon Stone (12:35):
That's incredible, that's hard for me to wrap my
mind around.
John McEuen (12:38):
Well, there were a lot of first takes because we
just knew that.
Roy Acuff, he told us boys, wegot to get it right the first
time and the hell with the restof them.
And that's what he said andit's on the record.
Jon Stone (12:54):
You know, in the studio over the years I've
watched, true, first takemusicians and marveled at them,
but I've never been a first takemusician.
John McEuen (13:07):
Well, you know Frank Sinatra.
What's his name?
The lead singer in Alabama,kenny Rogers A lot of people.
If Sinatra didn't get it inthat first take, like Kenny
Rogers, he would move on.
Well, I don't know that one.
Listen, I'll come back to itlater on.
Let's do it some other time.
(13:29):
But you know, you do, it isdifferent.
It's like playing live, if youthink of it that way.
Jon Stone (13:36):
Do you suppose some of those guys like let's just
take Kenny Rogers, is theirability to first take?
Is that just like?
I mean, they're just naturallygifted that way?
Or is it a reflection of theydid an enormous amount of work
on the front end so that theycould come in and get in the
first take.
John McEuen (13:52):
I think it's a reflection of several things
that they have a lot of talentand they have a lot of drive and
they have a lot of input.
All that leads up to themrehearsing and learning the song
.
Why do you go into a studiowhen you don't know a song?
You?
Jon Stone (14:12):
yeah.
John McEuen (14:13):
I mean it's.
I understand the point of somegroups.
I have even done it myself,where you go in and work up a
song and you add to it andyou've got a dog and you've do
it and it takes two days maybe,but there's a dentist.
Go, let's see what tooth wasthat?
Was that?
Minnie Mouse (14:30):
Oh, what's wrong.
John McEuen (14:32):
You know good point .
You know there's a pilot on theplane.
Yeah, we'll be getting toPittsburgh and about it.
Oh, no, we're going toPhiladelphia, we're going to
right point taken, so why not doit?
It's a lot cheaper too.
Jon Stone (14:48):
I'm gonna ask you to humor me for a second.
You said something earlier thattriggered a thought you had
mentioned your firstperformances were actually a
magic show, a magic routine, andI read somewhere that you
worked at Disneyland as ateenager, correct?
John McEuen (15:02):
I wanted to get a job at the magic shop in
Disneyland when I was 16.
Steve Martin did too.
He was working in venture landat the time.
We both got the job on the sameday.
Jon Stone (15:13):
It was like at the magic shop.
John McEuen (15:15):
Yeah, hooray, we were.
I mean, steve was a 16 year oldand so was I.
Neither one of us played music.
We worked there for three yearsand it was a wonderful time.
Jon Stone (15:26):
So here's my question for you Did you ever see Walt
Disney like in the flesh?
John McEuen (15:31):
Three times Disney came to the park while I was
working there.
One time he was walked over tothe wishing well with the
entourage.
The wishing well was rightoutside of the fantasy land
castle, on the right side rightand they're trying to solve a
problem.
He'd had a bunch of statues madeof snow white and the seven
(15:51):
dwarfs in Italy and had themshipped to Disneyland.
They all came.
They were all the same size.
So snow white and the sevendwarfs were all the same size,
which didn't quite make sense.
Yeah, and Disney's, he didn'twant to ship them back.
Okay, he didn't want to makenew seven dwarfs and keep the
(16:16):
snow white.
And he didn't want to make asnow white that was in scale,
because she'd be like 25 feettall, you know.
So he goes here's what we doand make a waterfall.
He said make a waterfall withthe perspective of it going up
the hill to the top of thewaterfall and put snow white up
(16:37):
there and and put the dwarfsdown here in the foreground.
Jon Stone (16:42):
It will force perspective.
John McEuen (16:44):
It will force perspective and it looks right.
Wow, what a great memory.
And the other memory was one ofthem he was.
They didn't let him out of thefirehouse.
Firehouse the firehouse on MainStreet is where he had an
apartment, and one time he wasjust a little too tipsy.
(17:04):
That's what the word was and.
I'm gonna.
And then the other time we waswalking around the park and it
was like Wow, you know it'sreally cool.
But he certainly had the vision.
My daughter I started takingher to Disneyland when she was
four years old and when she wasin high school she did a term
(17:27):
paper on Walt Disney and and theyears went by and my strange
career led to me playing at thefuneral of Mickey Mouse.
What I got?
A call one morning.
My wife said it's some ladywith a high voice.
Minnie Mouse (17:46):
Yeah, well, my husband just died and he was
your biggest fan and I wouldjust love it if you'd play in
his funeral.
John McEuen (17:56):
And I?
What did he do?
Minnie Mouse (17:58):
for 35 years he was a voice of Mickey Mouse,
really the yes, his name wasWayne all-white and he played
trumpet and piano and banjo andguitar.
Anyway, he was a.
John McEuen (18:14):
He was a big fan he had my solo albums and I think
he had a couple dirt band albums.
I said what do you do, ma'am?
I do the voice of Minnie andExcuse me, you do Minnie Mouse
and your husband does Mickey.
Yeah.
Jon Stone (18:34):
So was he actually the fellow that did Mickey after
Walt passed?
John McEuen (18:40):
No, Walt only did it a little bit, but he did
Mickey for 35 years and shetried out for many.
He approved her and so they gotmarried the next year and I'm
out there at Forest Law and acouple of days later, standing
next to Wayne Allwine's coffin,Mickey's coffin, playing to a
(19:02):
bunch of people.
Well, they weren't people, theywere like Pluto, Goofy, the
fairy, godmother and all thosekinds of voice actors.
Kermit was even there and I didabout 100 people, I did about a
20 minute little set and shehands me his banjo and goes it's
time for the song.
I start playing the Vicky Mousesong Ding ding, ding, ding,
(19:27):
ding, ding, ding, ding, ding,ding, ding, ding, ding, ding,
ding and everybody startssinging M-I-C-K-E-Y-M-O-U-S-E.
And it got really weird.
Wow, it got really weirdbecause when it got to the part
Mickey Mouse, it gets to thepart M-I-C.
She walks up to the coffin,M-I-C.
Minnie Mouse (19:46):
She goes see you real soon.
John McEuen (19:50):
It was really.
Jon Stone (19:54):
That is surreal.
John McEuen (19:56):
I never did acid.
I never did any drugs I didn'tneed to.
I had things like this going on.
Jon Stone (20:02):
That is probably the most surreal thing I've ever
heard, but it's also kind ofbeautiful.
John McEuen (20:07):
Yes, it was and K-E-Y why?
Because I love you.
And it was like really strangewhen they had the dozen doves
that they let go two at a timeand they flew around the little
grass area and they flew outover one area and that one area
where Walt Disney was buried hiscrypt was right, they flew
(20:32):
right over it.
The hair stand on my arm rightnow just thinking about that Me
too.
I was just like wow, anyway,that's a strange career of mine.
I've played with Roy Ac uff,I've played with Williw Nelson,
leon Russell.
You know Steve Vai, you knowwho that is, of course, and I
(20:54):
and I we did doing banjos and abenefit for dogs.
Jon Stone (20:59):
Really, is that on?
Can I find that on YouTube?
John McEuen (21:02):
No, no, I don't think so.
I'm going to try.
It was in somebody's backyard.
It was in somebody's backyard.
Nobody had video cameras.
Jon Stone (21:12):
Again.
When we were talking a coupleof weeks ago, you mentioned that
, at least on the early part ofyour career with the dirt band,
you're actually wearing morethan one hat in addition to
playing in the band.
You said you were road managingas well while you guys were on
tour.
John McEuen (21:30):
Well, when we started, I was 21.
I was 20, but by the time wehad our first hit, I was 21 and
we would go on the road.
I was the only one old enoughto rent a car, and so I had to
go rent the car and I had todrive it.
You had to drive it and I hadto know where it was going, and
(21:51):
you can't expect the 18-year-oldthat's having not their first
beer, but anyway, there's abunch of goofballs out on the
road.
Jon Stone (22:00):
Well, that had to have been tough for you, or was
it I?
John McEuen (22:04):
thought it was fun.
It was part of the deal, partof the challenge, part of the
thing.
Everybody had their own.
Some people pulled differentweights.
It was a good thing.
I also promoted concerts Overthe years.
I had six children and I don'tcare who you are If you're
playing in a country, rock orwhatever band it was.
(22:26):
It takes a lot of money toraise six kids in the Rocky
Mountains, and I mean it takesto raise them nice to pay for
the heating and the gas.
Our house was here and the highschool was over there 14 miles
and the grade school was overhere 13 miles.
(22:47):
So if you had to take the kidsto school, you take the sports,
though, or if they missed a bus,or if there was a play or if
there was whatever.
Jon Stone (22:57):
So the cost of raising the large family was
part of what was driving you towork so hard for so long.
John McEuen (23:04):
I don't know, I think it was for sure.
It made me do other things.
It made me play solo.
I did my first solo gig withinthe Dirt Band in 1977.
I had been playing solo beforethe band started Our playing
with other people, like MichaelMartin Murphy.
I did six months with him in1965.
(23:26):
I ended up playing on five ofhis albums.
That was nice.
I played with other people andso I started promoting concerts
or doing concerts in Deadwood,South Dakota.
I was playing up there once andthe women running the show
three different ladies what ifwe do a concert up here?
Minnie Mouse (23:46):
You think we could do a concert or a show.
John McEuen (23:49):
Anyway, would you help us In 1990, they didn't
know anything about musicpromotion or whatever I said.
Well, I think we should do ashow and call it the Deadwood
Jam.
It ended up being a two dayshow, friday and Saturday, from
noon to 10 o'clock every day.
Each day I booked a lot ofpeople like Leon Russell,
(24:13):
fabulous Thunderbirds, ramblin,jack Kelly, art, ligothry,
america a broad variety ofmid-range acts, a couple of well
, some people would think ofthem as more than mid-range, but
in the realities of showbiz itwas a gig, it was a show.
It was in the middle of nowherein Deadwood, south Dakota.
It was a two day concert.
(24:34):
It was really fun.
Then I booked some promotionsfor corporate shows Jansport
you're familiar with JansportCompany.
I'm very familiar with Jansport.
I worked with Skip Yal, one ofthe guys that created it.
I learned a lot from him.
Jon Stone (24:50):
So another small universe example For a few years
, skip was my next door neighborwhen I was a child.
Oh wow.
John McEuen (25:01):
Small world Did he sell?
Jon Stone (25:02):
popcorn, then I have no recollection of popcorn.
I was just a little kid.
John McEuen (25:08):
He loved popcorn.
We marketed it on the side.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, he passed away severalyears ago.
Jon Stone (25:18):
So most musicians do not manage to extend their
career across a lifetime.
How have you managed to do that?
John McEuen (25:30):
Still trying to make it.
I guess you know when you havefriends like John Denver, who I
met when he was John Duchen-Dorfplaying in the Chad Mitchell
trio, then he left and becameJohn Denver and handed me an
album one night in Houston andsaid hey, john, I think this got
(25:50):
a hit on it.
The record company says theyreally like it here, take it
home.
Well, you better sign it.
Anyway, it was Country Roadsand it was a hit.
It was a giant.
It started his career for real.
When you have people like JoseFeliciano, who I met when he was
17 and drove him around weplayed clubs in Southern
California.
(26:11):
I remember once, after a coupleof years, he goes hey, john,
can you take me to the IrvineCollege?
I've got a gig up there.
Oh sure, I figured he's playinga coffee house or something you
know.
Yeah, I get there and thegymnasium is full of people
waiting to see Jose Feliciano.
I ended up playing a couplesongs with him but he did the
(26:31):
show and he killed Like my firehad been out for about two
months the Jose version which Iwas proud of, instead of that
weirdo Jim Morrison.
Jose did a lot better with thatsong.
Jon Stone (26:48):
You know, when I look through your full discography,
your full story.
If I had to use one word tosummarize it, it would be
collaboration.
You appear to have collaboratedin one form or another with
just about everybody.
John McEuen (27:06):
As far as I can, tell Well, quite a few people.
Yeah, I've been very lucky.
Jon Stone (27:12):
Yeah, that's remarkable.
John McEuen (27:13):
You know, it's very .
You say you studied Walt Disney.
Jon Stone (27:18):
Yeah, I've become kind of fascinated with him over
the last 10 or 15 years.
John McEuen (27:23):
Well, he was a good example of somebody that did it
a little strange.
Walt Disney presents Well, whatabout all the people that made
this thing?
What about the artist?
What about the guy that createdGoofy?
What about Walt Disney presents?
Now, I understand that that isthe way some people work, but I
(27:44):
like collaboration and I try togive people credit and then they
end up making it, Steve Martinbeing one of the early ones.
My brother started managing him.
That was really a wonderfulthing.
Bill, you got to come see Steve.
He's really being funny.
He's really cracking me up andsome other people and some of
(28:07):
the audience.
I got tapes of Steve withpeople who are laughing like and
people is like 20 or 30 peoplein a club, you know, and he's
doing these silly bits.
I was there, you know theexcuse me, routine.
Jon Stone (28:26):
Well, excuse me, you familiar with that.
I'm very familiar with that one.
John McEuen (28:30):
I was there the night he did that the first time
.
Wow, in San Francisco he waseither opening for the dirt band
or I was opening for him.
He said look, I'm going to dothis thing next in my set, where
I'm going to say I want thelights changed and I've told the
light man do not change thelights, no matter what I say, do
(28:50):
not change the lights.
Would you go up in the lightbooth and make sure he doesn't
change the lights?
I went, okay, sure, I'm goingto do a little bit of a mellow
thing.
I could use some light, bluelight, and I'm getting a da, da,
da, da, da.
I could use some light, someblue light, blue Lights don't
(29:17):
change, they're all bright.
I you know it gets into thatthing.
What's?
Minnie Mouse (29:23):
up.
I figure you know more aboutshow business than I do.
I'm down here, it's my ass, andda, da, da da.
John McEuen (29:30):
If you don't think it well, excuse me.
And the place was worried.
They were this guy's goingcrazy.
Yeah, and nobody's ever seen acomedian like that right yeah,
on stage.
He's assaulting the light man,calling him an idiot, and when
he went, excuse me, he startsplaying the banjo.
(29:52):
The place just exploded, I'mtelling you.
You couldn't hear anything butlaughter for two minutes.
Jon Stone (30:02):
No, I mean, that was when he became a cultural
phenomenon.
I can remember that time, I canremember those shows, I can
remember those routines, but Iwas still pretty young so I
didn't necessarily like actuallyunderstand all of the humor.
It was his physicality is whatwas cracking me.
John McEuen (30:18):
Yeah he was really good as a child.
Jon Stone (30:21):
But what Steve Martin means to me from that time is I
can remember my father.
My dad is an electrician, acommercial industrial
electrician.
My dad has literally worked hisbutt off his entire life hard
physical labor, and so when hewas home he'd usually be
(30:41):
exhausted.
But I can remember when he'dwatched those Steve Martin
specials he would laugh hard Ithink the hardest I've ever seen
my old man laugh in his lifeand that made me as a child.
It just made me feel so good tosee my father enjoying himself
(31:02):
for that half hour special orwhatever it was so.
you produced Steve's album.
Say more about that.
John McEuen (31:10):
My brother produced his first four albums, the
comedy albums.
That was in the 70s and 1980.
And then he started getting towhere he wanted them.
I moved to New York City for aperiod of five, six years
because I needed to make somenew things happen.
I had exhausted LA and one ofthe things that happened was
Steve called one day and saidhey, can you come over to my
(31:32):
place?
And well, sure, and I went overto his place and listened to
five banjo tunes, or maybe six,just the banjo recorded on his
computer, and you think he'salready good.
I said, steve, those are realgood.
You got to make an album.
Then I got to produce it.
Why do you have to produce it?
(31:54):
Because I know you, you lovemusic.
You love Music, man.
Appalachian Spring is one ofyour favorite albums and you
like Flatts and Scruggs of 1948,1952 era.
And I know you and I know allthat.
You got to trouble my friendright here in Music City.
Well, I'm sure I'm a billiardplayer, I like the same things
(32:17):
and you appreciate Disneyland.
We both did and I got the job.
You didn't think that music was.
You think this music is anygood, steve?
You're going to have to go onthe road and play it.
No, I can't, I can't go out, Ican't, I'm done performing.
No, you aren't.
(32:37):
And here's the thing when yougo out with a successful album
which this one will besuccessful, I'm not sure how
much, but it'll do some good foryou you stand there for three
or four minutes playing the songand you can think about what is
the next thing you're going tosay, and then you stand there
(32:59):
for three or four minutesplaying the song.
In other words, you're onlygoing to have to be funny or do
what Steve Martin does for 20minutes out of 75.
Right, right.
He started performing and thenhe found a band in North
Carolina and they went out.
And anyway, it worked reallywell for him.
Jon Stone (33:19):
A couple of questions just for fun, for all of the
travels around the world thatyou've done as a musician.
Two questions Firstapproximately how many countries
do you think you've visited 15.
Okay, so of those, if you hadto live somewhere other than the
United States, would it be oneof those countries or would it
(33:39):
be one of?
So which one?
John McEuen (33:41):
Oh, that's a hard one to guess.
France, why?
That's just pretty, it's niceand they have good food.
There's no artificialingredients.
There's no artificial flavorsand colors and there's great
crops France or Italy.
It's a toss up, maybe becausethey're close to Ireland.
Both of them and Ireland'salways fun.
Jon Stone (34:01):
I would like to visit Ireland a lot.
It's been on my list for a longtime.
Minnie Mouse (34:05):
You're old enough, just over yeah.
John McEuen (34:08):
Yeah, what do you mean by that?
You're old enough to go.
Jon Stone (34:12):
Yeah, you think they'd let me in?
Yeah.
John McEuen (34:15):
I mean you save up a certain amount of money, buy a
cheap ticket.
You can get there for five, sixhundred dollars.
I'd like to visit Galway.
Yeah, You're old enough.
Jon Stone (34:28):
Second question, just for fun.
So we've talked about thisextraordinary amount of
collaboration that you haveaccomplished over the years.
Have you ever been, or do youever still get, starstruck?
John McEuen (34:42):
Starstruck by somebody.
Jon Stone (34:44):
Yeah.
John McEuen (34:47):
I opened for Celine Dion one time at a benefit
thing.
Wow really.
And if I was going to getstarstruck it seemed like that
would be it.
But she was just a regularperson.
It's funny how that works.
She was really nice.
We took a picture together ofan album I'd produced of a bunch
of guys in Africa.
Anyway, she was very sweet,very nice.
(35:08):
And Dolly Parton, I don't know,she's just.
I'm going to open a makeup line, cost a lot of money to look
this cheap.
She's very funny.
Jon Stone (35:20):
She is a comedian in her own right yeah.
John McEuen (35:23):
And Johnny Cash.
Now there was a character.
There was a real complicatedrecorded with him, played with
him a dozen times, hung outwhere he was and starstruck the
ones that act like stars.
I can do without.
Jon Stone (35:42):
You know nice to meet him.
John McEuen (35:45):
Nice to meet you.
You got lucky with those threechords, is what I'd like to say
to him.
But one of my new friends is aman named even Stevens.
You ever heard his name?
I have not.
He wrote a great book calledSomeday I'm Gonna Rent this Town
, about Nashville.
He came here absolutely dirtpoor and anyway he's written
(36:10):
songs like when You're in Lovewith a Beautiful Woman, ooh, I'm
Driving my Life Away, rainyDays.
He wrote half of Eddie Rabbit'shits and he wrote a bunch of
songs, Even Stevens, yeah and heis one of the most mellow,
nicest guys.
I mean, when I met him I'dnever heard of him really.
(36:33):
We became friends startingabout a year ago and we're going
to do something together.
I don't know what, but there'sa collaboration.
But he's like a non-star, youknow Right that.
A well-known anyway.
Jon Stone (36:49):
You know who I have met.
That kind of strikes me in thatsame way is Brian Setzer.
You know Brian Setzer.
Yes, he was a very nice guy.
I've produced a couple of hisshows Brian Setzer Orchestra and
the way he stood out he reallysurprised me because he shows up
with the crew call in themorning and he would push boxes
(37:12):
and he would hump cable.
And I remember mid-afternoon ofsetup he came to my production
office and say, hey, Jon, yougot a second, can you come out
here and check something out?
And we'd go out into like thebleachers, out into the seats,
and we would sit at differentlike the back row or far left,
far right, and he'd ask mequestions about like what do I
(37:34):
think about the sight lines orwhat do I think about this.
My point being, he is singularof focus.
He wants to put on the bestpossible show experience for his
audience.
He's just obsessed with it.
He'd take all of his meals withthe crew.
He'd only take about, as Irecall, 15, 20 minutes for
himself just before the show tochange and get ready to go.
(37:57):
But absolutely upstandingcharacter that Brian Setzer.
John McEuen (38:02):
Yeah, I did a birthday party for him one time.
It was really fun.
I mean that was years ago.
That was Stray Cats Day inNashville.
Yeah, he's an exceptional guy.
Jon Stone (38:12):
For all of the collaboration that you've done.
Is there anybody that you stillwant to collaborate with but
you have not had the opportunity?
John Fogarty and.
John McEuen (38:23):
Paul McCartney.
I'd like to play a banjo parton a Paul McCartney song.
Jon Stone (38:28):
Well, you answered that question pretty fast Well.
John McEuen (38:30):
I've wanted to for 30 years, 40 years.
And John Fogarty is somebodythat I just love.
His music, it's his voice, hisattitude, his non-starship,
stardom.
Jon Stone (38:45):
Well, not to turn your own words around on you,
but you're old enough to do that, you know.
John McEuen (38:50):
Yeah, but they have to want it, yeah.
Oh, paul McCartney, you'regoing to really need me to play
the banjo in your record.
Jon Stone (39:01):
Oh, you never know, you're right.
I'm imagining that right now.
It sounds great in my head.
John McEuen (39:07):
Well, I play guitar too, and mandolin, and I might
end up playing something else.
Jon Stone (39:14):
What's up next?
You're working on an album.
Right now I have an album.
John McEuen (39:17):
I have an album coming out April 12th that I
think is, oh, I think it's thebest work I've done.
It's called the Newsman andit's a spoken word but with
music behind it.
I've done about 14 film scores.
It's like an album that's asoundtrack for a movie that
(39:39):
hasn't been made.
Now there's been a lot ofspoken word from Hank Williams
Sr and there's one of his cutson there that I did and to Music
Band.
You got Trouble, my friendsright here in River City.
That's what got me into spokenword.
Before I played music I waslearning the River City thing.
(39:59):
Oh, two stories, one that Iwrote, you know, I mean there
was even a recent spoken wordthe devil went down to Georgia.
You know, nobody thinks of that, but that was like a talking
blues song, right, and thatlittle part where he played like
this and firing them out andrun, boys run.
There's little singing sections.
(40:20):
But anyway, the Newsman.
There's a piece on therewritten by a guy in Vietnam at a
battle, talking about thebattle, and that was really
tough to read.
We were just boys when we goton that helicopter to the flight
, to the fight, you know,expected to act like men.
(40:42):
We got off that chopper andthey handed us a gun and said
you don't have to win.
If you want to live, just keepyour head low.
And it goes on, it's anyway.
Jon Stone (40:57):
Is this an idea, this album, is this concept an idea
that you've been kicking aroundin your head for some time?
Or is it something that's cometo you recently?
John McEuen (41:04):
It's been about 10 years, yeah, but I also have a
couple of these pieces that Ilearned 20 years ago and one of
them from the 70s.
I'm not going to get an awardfor being a singer.
I know that although I sing bigdeal.
You know there's a lot ofsingers out there and the
instrumental section there's somany great instrumentalists out
(41:27):
there but there's spoken wordcategory is pretty wide open.
I think I can get some tensionfor that.
Jon Stone (41:34):
John, what's a piece of advice that you would give to
musicians who are just startingout in their career and can
envision a life in music such asyou have experienced?
John McEuen (41:45):
Try to create something new.
Being a band that has the bestversion oh, you ought to hear
this band.
They do a great version ofRocky Top.
Try and create something new.
It's very, very difficult, it'snot easy.
Yeah, it's a good advice.
Find something that you cancall your own and that way, if
(42:07):
you're not successfulfinancially, you'll be proud of
your work.
And there you go.
Also, don't keep borrowingmoney.
Figure out how to make somemoney.
Point taken, I met Mac Davis ina mail room at United Artists.
He was working in the mail room.
You know he worked his way up.
(42:28):
You might say Mac Davis wrotetons of hits, but he had to find
out how the record businessworked.
Jon Stone (42:37):
Sage advice.
A couple of quick randomquestions for you, John.
What's your favorite sound?
John McEuen (42:44):
Backwards echo or that's where you record it and
then you turn it aroundbackwards and put it back in.
And harmonics when you take outthe pick noise, you know if
you're recording on Pro Toolsand the line is going by.
If you take out the pluck andyou just get the harmonic, it
makes a wonderful sound that youcan put in.
(43:06):
Or if you just do, you know youget the, but you don't get the.
You don't get the, you just get.
How do I Just get the?
That's one of my favoritesounds.
Jon Stone (43:19):
You walk into an ice cream shop and you're going to
get an ice cream cone with twoflavors.
What are the two flavors?
John McEuen (43:24):
The one the same cone.
Yes, oh, the same cone.
That's tough, we're sure of it.
As one and vanilla is another,I put those together, but I'd
keep them apart.
Jon Stone (43:36):
Which flavor goes on top?
John McEuen (43:38):
Well, I'd say the vanilla.
Jon Stone (43:41):
Okay, fair enough.
John, I want to thank you formaking the time to be with us
today.
It's been a pleasure, thank you, Thank you.
John McEuen (43:53):
I was just wondering if you can tie a knot
in the middle of a rope withoutletting go of either end, I'll
bet you can.
Something from the old days Doit like that, do it like that,
do it like this, and then, whenyou drop it over your hands, you
have a knot.
Jon Stone (44:08):
Awesome.
John McEuen (44:14):
All call one hour to doors.
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