April 1, 2025 • 36 mins
How do you collect the right data for your business, and once you have it, how should you respond? In this episode, Path for Growth coach Matt Aiken joins the podcast to talk about a data-driven approach to leadership. He shares 5 key principles for growing your business based on data. Matt and Alex also share a new perspective for leaders who might feel less comfortable with numbers and figures, reminding us that good data is ultimately telling a story.
-----------------------------------
Information isn’t the gap between failure and success—action is. Path for Growth’s 1-on-1 coaching helps you create a plan and execute on what matters most for your business. Apply today at pathforgrowth.com/coaching.
-----------------------------------
Episode Recap:
- Why is data-driven business so important to you?
- If you’re uncomfortable with the concept of data, think of it as a story
- What gets measured gets managed
- Bridging the knowing/doing gap requires proactive leadership
- Wise strategy is rooted in healthy single-mindedness
- Wisdom does not come from experience, it comes from evaluated experience
- Decisions are bets, not certainties
- Tomatoes are fruits, but don’t put them in a fruit salad!
Resources:
Follow the podcast on Apple or Spotify
Try Path for Growth 1on1 Coaching Free for 14 Days
Download the Free Reading Guide
Join us for our 2025 Experience – Long Game Leadership
Listen to Matt’s previous Path for Growth episode
-----------------------------------
If you’re ready to move beyond just gathering information and start executing on what truly matters, Path for Growth’s 1-on-1 coaching can help. Apply now at pathforgrowth.com/coaching.
-----------------------------------
Connect with our Founder Alex Judd on LinkedIn and Instagram
Transcript:
Click here to view the episode transcript.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Alex Judd (00:00):
Matt, you're a small business owner yourself. You're
(00:02):
also one of our one on onecoaches that helps guide small
business owners around thecountry. Why is this topic of
data driven business somethingthat you're so passionate about?
Matt Aiken (00:14):
Yeah. When you first asked me this question, my my
mind was spinning and racing. Iwas like, why? Well, it's just
like the why is something that'sformed over decades of small
instances and reinforcements ofseeing data, playing with data,
and watching it shape and impactmy life. I I always grew up
(00:34):
around computers.
I remember when I was a a youngkid, my dad had a a PC for, like
up in the office and I'd go upand I'd play games and trying to
navigate that. And and so prettyearly on, figured out like, and
there's so many things you cando with a computer. And what's a
computer? Organized data. And sospent so many years playing with
(00:56):
it, seeing the impact of it,whether it's in school or just
in my personal life.
And then kind of in my formativepost college years, I started
realizing how many greatdecisions were based on great
data. And and I think, likeNetflix in particular, right?
One of one of my favoritestories. I used to spend hours
(01:19):
in Blockbuster and, you know,it's so sad that they're not
around anymore, but but who'sactually saying that other than
me? No one.
Why? Blockbuster and Netflixwere looking at the same data.
Mhmm. Like, how long are peoplekeeping their their DVDs? And
they were like, oh, longer andlonger and longer.
And the reason we have Netflixtoday is because in the way that
(01:41):
we do. Right? Because remember,they used to be this this mail
in, you know, you get your twooh, you get two DVDs at a time,
three DVDs at a time. Theystarted realizing, like, people
were holding them forever. AndBlockbuster said, oh, this is
great.
Late fees. And what did Netflixsay? This is odd. Is behavior
changing? And so that's whenthey launched the subscription
(02:02):
model and and put putBlockbuster in the gray that
they're in in today.
So it's just a long history ofplaying with it, feeling
comfortable with it, and thenjust the stories of all the
impacts it's had just, like,driven that passion in me.
Alex Judd (02:15):
I love that you referenced that case study too,
because something that I haven'tthought about is the idea that
they both had the same data thatthey were both looking at the
same thing. It's the way thatthey responded to the data that
really mattered. So I think partof what we're getting into into
these couple episodes, it seemslike, is both the process of
(02:36):
getting the right data becausethat in itself is a hurdle for
small business. But then onceyou have it, how do you respond
to the data that you have andmaybe even equip your team to
respond to the data that they'reseeing? Does that feel right?
Matt Aiken (02:49):
Yeah. I was on a customer call working with one
of my businesses who she and Ihad been talking about a KPI
dashboard for about threemonths. And We finally were
like, Let's get on the phone.What's blocking us from this?
Thinking through, What's goingon?
Alex Judd (03:04):
She was like, I
Matt Aiken (03:04):
know I need it. I just don't know what I need. Can
we start building it? I waslike, Well, no. Why?
Like, is this important? We hadto start with the why and and
and start to use thoseprinciples to to steer and shape
the conversation towards, reallyloving what access we have to to
(03:26):
great information.
Alex Judd (03:27):
That's so good. And I think it really sets us up for
today's conversation becauseeven by having the word data in
an episode title, we run therisk of all the visionary
creative leaders checking outand be like, oh, that episode's
not for me. But what's so coolis I think I am a little bit
more creative, I see the worddata, and I veer away and say,
(03:50):
okay, I'm avoiding that topic,right? That's how I'm wired. And
I think you might even say to adegree, you can be wired that
way too.
However, when I remind myself oflike, Okay, what is data? Data
is done properly is a reallycompelling story about the
present that can help us makedecisions and assumptions about
(04:11):
the future, well, then Iactually start to get more
passionate about this topic thatcan be really dry. So with that,
can you set us up for thecontent that we're going to walk
through today and what peopleshould expect to get out of it?
Matt Aiken (04:26):
Yeah. Well, I mean, today we're really focused on
the why. Like, why should youcare about data? And and maybe
even to a to a greater extent,why thinking about data properly
through the lens of principlesand not a set of rules or a
checklist is so powerful fortaking your business from where
(04:46):
it is to where you want it togo. What are the mindsets or the
guideposts that help us veer andnavigate through the creative
aspect of data?
Alex Judd (04:59):
That's right. And let's define principles for
people because we have aspecific definition that we use
at principles. We say it's aconcisely worded statement of
truth circumstance. We say thatif you want to make someone's
day better, help them solve aproblem. If you want to make
someone's life better or thetotality of their business
better, help them learn aprinciple.
(05:21):
And so what we're going to dotoday is not say, hey, this is
the cookie cutter data you needto go get for your business
today, because that is a verywell, it's a pragmatic approach.
It's really just a tacticalsolution to what really we want
to give you is a greaterawareness and understanding of
what is possible if you, and byextension, your team, start
(05:41):
thinking about data in aprincipled manner. And so that's
really our aim and goal andobjective out of walking through
these five principles. Andunfortunately, I didn't include
as one of the questions for ourepisode, Matt, is it pronounced
data or data? And so I think youand I are just going to
interchange both, and we'regoing to say that either works.
Does that feel good to you?
Matt Aiken (06:02):
Yeah. That sounds great to me. You you schooled
me, when we first talked aboutthis episode. You were like, why
do you call it data? And I waslike, well, uh-oh, Google.
I went and got the data thatthat's how you can have data. I
know.
Alex Judd (06:14):
I we had that conversation and then like
literally now I hear you use itas data all the time and now I
see myself using it. And so Idon't know, Pirates of the
Caribbean, Pirates of theCaribbean, I'm not sure. Data,
data, tomato, tomato, right?Very Okay. With that, let's jump
into principle number one.
What's the first principlepeople need need to understand?
Matt Aiken (06:32):
Yeah. And I I mean, this is probably one of the most
well known quotes in and arounddata from Peter Drucker. Right?
What gets measured gets managed.That's the that's the first
principle.
And and and this principle getsthrown around a lot. And so I
wanna make sure, like, whatwe're talking about is, again,
the principle of it. Like, okay.What what what gets measured
(06:54):
gets managed? This is not a arally call to measure
everything.
What is it? It's measuring whatmatters most. And when you
measure what matters most, youand your team can manage that
outcome, that success that isgetting measured. And so, yeah,
(07:15):
that's that's the principle. Imean, you're a big Peter Drucker
fan.
Is there any other quote you'veheard from Peter more so than
this one?
Alex Judd (07:21):
Probably not. No. It sounds way better with his
Austrian accent than in youraccent, unfortunately, Matt. But
we'll stick with your accent forthis episode. Yeah.
But here's what stands out to meas it relates to this quote in
this context. We work with somany small business owners that
a hunger that they have and I'vebeen there too is that like,
(07:43):
man, I start these things, andthey prove to be successful, but
then we can't sustain thesuccess of this project, of this
business unit, of this productor service unless I'm attending
to it. And they're kind ofsaying like, I wish I could look
away and go do other things, andthis thing could still be
successful. What you're reallysaying there is I wish this
(08:06):
would be managed. I wanted tostart and lead things, and I
wish we could manage this well.
And sometimes we think, oh,that's a personnel problem. And
in reality, I think it'sactually a process problem in
that we go and start the thing,it becomes successful, but then
we don't define, hey, what hasmade this successful and how do
(08:28):
we measure that? We don't askthat question, and therefore,
because we don't know how tomeasure success, we can't
provide those clues to theperson that we're assigning to
manage it, and therefore theymight be doing the best they
can, but they don't even knowwhat to manage. So I think
that's actually a very hyperpractical application of this
principle for the small businessowners that we work with.
Matt Aiken (08:50):
Yeah. I mean, just the idea of ownership. I want my
people to own it. I want them toand I go, own what? I want them
to own this task.
Well, like, if they own the taskand you didn't get the outcome
you were looking for, would thatstill matter? You know, they
start scratching their head. Andso that's why what gets measured
gets managed. And so, you know,there's there's really, like,
(09:11):
three categories for this thatthat Drucker teaches, and I've
seen over and over and overagain. When you measure
something, what are you doing?
You're getting clear. You'regetting clear on on the result,
or the the the rate at whichyou're successful in certain
areas of the business. Right?You get clear and everyone can
see it. That's the number.
It's clear. It's visible. I cansee it on a report, on a
(09:34):
dashboard, or in ourconversation. Hey. What's,
what's the conversion rate?
What's their retention rate?Hey, what's our net income? You
you get that number and everyonecan see it and then go, okay. K.
I can I can I get it?
That's that's where we're that'swhere we are. And so then that
creates a second thing. Itcreates a culture of alignment.
And this is something like youyou can't miss. It doesn't
(09:57):
happen on its own.
But when you see a number, you,a business owner, go, this is
why the number is the number.But if you don't say it out loud
and you don't tell it or preachit to the team, well, they might
have their own thought. And sowhat does it create? If I think
that retention is, you know,where it is because of x y z and
you think it it's there becauseof a a b c, what do we have? We
(10:20):
have misalignment.
We are clear on the number, butare we aligned on the why behind
it? And so like when you startmeasuring things, you want
people to manage it, but we'remanaging our expectations. Why
is that number the way it is?And when you start having that
conversation, the third thinghappens. You start creating this
culture of a continuousimprovement.
How do we get the number fromwhere it is? Because we've
(10:41):
agreed that's the number. Nowwe've probably agreed. We think
this is why the number is theway it is. Okay.
Well, what do we do about it?And so that's where the managed
piece comes in as people starttaking action on the the clear
data that's provided.
Alex Judd (10:57):
And something that strikes me there is, like, we
spend a lot of time on thispodcast talking about how, as a
leader, man, you really stepinto your most powerful role
when you can play the role ofcoach for the people that you
(12:57):
lead. But in the absence ofclear aim and clear measurement
as it relates to how we're doingon that aim, so clear picture of
here, clear picture of there,it's really hard to ask
questions because we'rebasically like, we don't know
where we're going. We don't knowwhere we are, so we're kind of
just chatting at that point.Whereas whenever we
(13:19):
contextualize this in the termsof the journey that we have both
opted into, well, then I can askreally great questions about how
can we go from here to there.Okay, Let's go to principle
number two.
Matt Aiken (13:32):
So second principle, a little bit of Stephen Covey
here. Like, bridging the knowingdoing gap requires proactive
leadership. Okay? So if that ifthat principle is true, then
you're gonna see yourself in oneof two ways. I'm either more on
the knowing side or I'm more onthe doing side.
(13:52):
Well, what does great leadershiprequire? It requires you to
proactively bridge that gap. Sooften when I sit with leaders on
this, they, you know, hey, Alex,what data do we have? Like,
let's dive in. Let's figure outwhat's going on.
And you're going, no, no, no,no, no, no, no. Let's just go
get some stuff done. Like, let'sgo knocking now. Let's get after
(14:13):
it. Let's go do.
And then there's someone else onyour team like, woah, woah,
woah, woah, how do we know we'redoing the right thing? And so
proactive leaders bridge thisknowing doing gap in a proactive
manner. And data helps you do
Alex Judd (14:26):
Yeah, so can you explain for us what is the
knowing person? The personthat's more predisposed to like,
hey, I'm going to aim forknowing first versus the person
that's predisposed to doing.Let's make that really clear.
And then I would love to knowwhich one are you more
predisposed to and which one arethe business owners that you
work with around the country? Isthere a trend that you see
(14:48):
they're more predisposed to?
Matt Aiken (14:49):
Yeah. I'll start with your second question first.
And this is really coming backto our Being a Strategic Thinker
podcast series we did back inthe fall. Are you more visionary
or strategic? Was it strategicor tactical?
That's right. And so oftentimesI find that the people that find
themselves more vision oriented,more strategic oriented, They're
(15:12):
the ones that want to know thedata or at least they're going
to define where they want to be.They're going to have a number,
a target in mind. And so they'reoften that vision strategic side
versus that tactical side, thatdoing side, they've got that
bent towards, I don't care whatthe data says, this is my aim,
(15:33):
this is my target, I'm going in,I gotta get after it. We're
gonna do the do.
And so what is knowing? Knowingis having an understanding,
right, knowledge and anunderstanding around what is
reality. What is the datatelling me? And what is the data
versus the doing side is like,how do we execute at a really,
(15:56):
really high level? We're gonnago do this.
And I've seen people on bothsides be successful. So so to be
clear, there's not one that'sbetter than the other. Although
I think if you ask people inthat camp, which one's better,
they everyone's gonna say, youknow, their camp is better. But,
yeah, for me, I definitely, havea bent towards that that knowing
side because it's really fun tolook and to see and to know and
(16:21):
then have confidence in thedoing side assuming you can
execute at a high level.
Alex Judd (16:25):
Yeah. That's so interesting. I think for me, it
depends on the arena. But Ithink this podcast is actually a
great example where we startedthis podcast I mean, shortly
after we started the business, aa dear friend of mine, Zach Way,
reached out and said, hey. Ithink y'all should have a
podcast.
And, like, I'll do it I'll doall the work for you for free if
if you we just get up andrunning. We're like, okay. Well,
(16:46):
that's definitely a doingmindset. I said, we're not going
to do it for free, but that'sawesome. Let's go for it.
And at that time, if you hadasked me, how many downloads do
you want to get a month? And howare you going to go about
getting those downloads? Or evenhow many downloads did you get
this week? I would have beenlike, I have no clue, and I
don't care. We're doing apodcast, right?
And there was so much joy andalso fruitfulness in just doing
(17:08):
the podcast, and so we werecertainly doing oriented. But we
are now seeing the value andvalidity of saying, okay, let's
kind of make up for some of theknowing that we didn't do at
that time. And it's not becausewe're in this toxic growth, like
we have to do this, otherwisethis podcast is a waste of time.
(17:29):
But the data I'm learning islike, oh, is a really valuable
way to see like which episodesare actually providing value to
leaders and how can we amplifythe things that are serving
people well. And I'm just havingso much fun looking at what the
data is telling us about howeach episode is performing, and
we're looking at seven daydownloads and thirty day
(17:49):
downloads.
And it's like we're kind ofbridging that knowing doing gap.
And so it sounds like whatyou're saying is exactly that.
It's like it's okay to have apropensity towards one or the
other, but there does become atime where you can't always just
do, you need to know, or youcan't always just know,
obviously you have to do.
Matt Aiken (18:07):
Yeah, and what's so fun, right? What's what's the
principle requires proactiveleadership. Proactive leadership
doesn't necessarily mean youdoing it yourself because
there's probably people on yourteam that have a bent to the
other side of that. The personthat has been looking at data
with you likes looking at thedata. We were we did a public
(18:30):
workshop yesterday, and and hisfirst question was, who came?
How many people? How were theybroken down? Were they
qualified? And so he was he waswhat was he doing? He was trying
to harvest and collect theknowing side so that he could
then bridge the gap to the whatdo we do now side of things.
Alex Judd (18:48):
Yeah. So good. Okay. Let's go to principle number
three.
Matt Aiken (18:52):
Principle number three, wise strategy is rooted
in healthy single mindedness.I've seen this, in my company. I
you know, in addition to being acoach here, I also have an
ownership stake and take anactive role in a board game
publishing company. And and sooften in this creative landscape
of making board games, there'sso much we could do. And
(19:15):
honestly, there's been manyseasons where we have maybe
gotten distracted.
Right? Distraction. You saidthis yesterday. Distraction.
We've lost traction because wedidn't have this healthy single
mindedness.
And and so data helps us do thatif it's visible, present,
repeatable. Right? Okay. Cool.We know we could do all these
(19:39):
other things, but what have wecommitted to?
Well, we've committed to theseset of metrics.
Alex Judd (19:45):
Mhmm. Yeah. It's it you know, I I think of it if we
were to use a very tangiblemetaphor, and it's really not a
metaphor. It's actually areality. You know, if if you're
shooting for a sub three hourmarathon, right, and you say,
like, that's my goal, that's myaim, there's a lot of things
that you could do.
(20:05):
You could build your upper bodya lot. You could engage in some
CrossFit workouts and prep. Youcould do all these things. And
it's like, well, that is not thebest way to run a sub three hour
marathon, right? There is aproven best way to run a sub
three hour marathon.
It's amazing how the minute youcommit to that, if you are
(20:26):
wholeheartedly committed to thatfor the right reasons, like
there's a pretty clear path onhow to get there. But the minute
we get a little bit more vagueof like, oh, I want to run a
fast marathon, well then it'slike, Okay, well then if I'm
fine with the ambiguity of thatand I'm going to be satisfied
with the ambiguity of that andthe ambiguity of what is fast,
(20:46):
then it's all good. But then I'mgoing to be way more likely to
get distracted and maybe eat icecream on a Wednesday night or go
to CrossFit a couple times aweek and not stretch a couple
times and things like that. Butthe more laser focused you get
on the outcome, you get really,really measurable steps at that
point. Here's the question Ihave for you on this.
How do you keep it healthy,right? How do you say healthy
(21:09):
single mindedness?
Matt Aiken (21:10):
It's it's definitely the most important aspect of
this principle. I've seen somany leaders who who start
looking at data, and whathappens is it becomes an
obsession. Yeah. And they'relike, okay, hey, can I get the
report? Can I get the report?
What's this number? What do do?And they maybe over index on one
metrics or they over index onmoving that needle at the
(21:34):
expense of others. And so, youknow, when I was thinking
through this principle, was,what what do I really want you
to know about how to apply thisprinciple healthily? It's not to
make the most important thingthe ultimate thing.
It's to make the most importantthing the most important thing
and then give vision, castvision for everyone else's
metrics that they own, funnelingup into or building the
(21:57):
foundation up into that thatsingle-minded aim. So it's it's
not just this is the number andwe're gonna we're gonna break
ourselves to achieve thisnumber. It's this is the number.
We're focused on this. How doall the other numbers play into
this?
Yeah. What do we need to say noto as far as looking at data or
focusing on fixing right now inorder to accomplish the ultimate
(22:21):
or the most important thing thatwe want to accomplish.
Alex Judd (22:24):
This feels like an appropriate time to ask. I am a
Christian business owner. Idesire to attend to the numbers
faithfully. How does this alignwith my beliefs, and how do I do
this in a way that aligns withwhat the Bible teaches?
Matt Aiken (22:40):
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I think about the parable,
what is it, in Matthew about theruler who goes away and hands
the minus to to the workers.Right? Hey.
Here here's 10. Here's five.Here's one. And and then he
leaves, and he has anexpectation. Right?
What are you going to do withthat? And he comes back, and the
(23:00):
first one says, with your 10, Imade 10. Ah, great. Here we go.
Here's a reward.
With your five, I made five. Oh,well done. Here you go. The
other one, hey, with my one,here's your one. Like, I didn't
do anything with it.
I was I was afraid of what Imight that I might lose it, that
I might mess up. And why thatprinciple? Why did that or not
principle. Why did that parablecome to mind? Well, because it's
(23:21):
the idea of stewardship.
The resources that we have, theimpact that we're making is a
gift from God to us. And we arenot recipients that now go, this
is us, this is mine, and I cando with it what I please. But
rather we're stewarding it.We're stewarding our employees.
We're stewarding our ourresources.
(23:43):
We're stewarding our customers.And so wait, what does a healthy
steward do? They give an accountfor it. Right? They give an
account for what was given to meand what I did with it.
And so just knowing that notonly ensures that you're a good
steward, but also can give you asense of, yeah, that's right.
Alex Judd (24:01):
I am being a good steward and I've got options in
how I can be a good steward.Really good. And and it you
know, I think we can stray away.As Christian business owners, we
can stray away from being tooempirical because we're afraid
of being or appearing greedy,which greed is certainly an
enemy of the virtue ofgenerosity that we are called
(25:27):
to. That is for sure.
But the other twin enemy ofgenerosity that we should be on
the lookout for is fear, right?And it's like, if I'm afraid of
what the numbers might tell meor I'm afraid that I might not
hit the goal, that's actually avery selfish thing that is
preventing me from investing theresources God gave me in service
(25:48):
of others. Let's go to principlefour, Matt.
Matt Aiken (25:51):
Yeah. Wisdom does not come from experience. Wisdom
comes from evaluated experience.These next two principles, comes
from a book that I remember whenI read it. I was like, yeah, I
don't know if I'm gonnarecommend it to anybody, but
I'll recommend these principles,to anyone.
It's from Annie Duke is is whereI first heard these things. And
(26:12):
and she's a a a poker player,former professional poker
player, who's now a a businessspeaker and professor. And she
just talks about the principlesof what do we know, what data do
we have, and how does it informthe decisions we make going
forward. And so wisdom comingfrom evaluated experience. Let's
(26:32):
use a poker analogy.
If we're playing poker heads up,know, like, you're James Bond
and I'm the the villain, youknow, in Casino Royale. And and
you go, great. I'm going all inwith two seven. This is the
worst hand in poker. Right?
Two seven. You you literallyit's got the the lowest
percentage of possibly winning.And you go all in and I've got
(26:53):
aces, the best hand in all ofpoker. Right? And then you win.
Right? Okay. Cool. What are yougonna do the next time you get
two seven, Alex?
Alex Judd (27:00):
Yeah. I'm gonna do the exact same thing that I just
You do
Matt Aiken (27:02):
the exact same thing. And guess what? You might
have won the first time, butyou're unlikely to do it the
second time. And so why why usethis example as far as this idea
of evaluated experience? We needa rhythm, a method to
continually evaluate ourexperience, to verify the
(27:24):
decisions that we're making thatwill result fruit in the future.
This is just powerful, right?How often do we do we have
success and then we just eitherdouble down on the thing we're
doing or ignore the thing we wedo and and not do it again
because we didn't take the timeto evaluate what happened, why
did it happen, and
Alex Judd (27:44):
what do I do now? Man, number one, I just wanna
say I so appreciate you makingme James Bond in that story
because I really value that. Butthen number two, I think what
you are talking about here is askill set that many founders,
including myself, have to levelup in if they want to get to the
(28:07):
next stage of business. And thisis an area where I I mean, I
don't know that I could have putwords to this before this
conversation, but you'rehighlighting it for me here is
founders, what are you great at?You're great at drawing
conclusions from anecdotes.
Your intuition says, oh, Iexperienced this with this
customer, and I'm seeing this inthe marketplace. And because of
(28:28):
what I'm experiencinganecdotally, experientially, I'm
going to make these decisionsand take these actions. And I
speak from my experience. If Ihadn't done that for the past
four years, I don't think Pathfor Growth would have been the
success that it is. However, youreach a point where it's like,
number one, my experience islimited, right?
(28:49):
I mean, it is finite. It has alid to it. And eventually, you
can start making decisions onexperiences where it's like,
that was a variable. It wasn'tthe cause. It's exactly what
you're saying in that pokeranalogy, where it's like, I
happen to win with that handlast time, but that's not a
guarantee that I'll win withthat hand every time.
(29:09):
And for you to be able to makemore educated decisions, which
is part of the next degree ofsophistication in business,
you've got to have data. And youcan't rely on just anecdotes and
experience. So Matt, that's so,so, so good. Okay, let's jump to
principle number five.
Matt Aiken (29:25):
Yeah, so principle number five, decisions are bets,
not certainties. This maybefeels like an ancillary
principle to this idea of whatdo great leaders do when they're
building a data culture. Theythey realize that the bets that
they're making are just that.They're bets. They're based on
(29:45):
some amount of knowledge, someamount of wisdom, but they're
not certainties.
And if you treat all of thedecisions you're making in your
business as certainties, one,you're you're gonna find
yourself sounding a littlefoolish in front of your team
because they're gonna go, oh,here he goes again. Alex is on
another one of his, harebrainedideas that he is certain this is
(30:06):
gonna work.
Alex Judd (30:07):
No. I like the James Bond illustration. Oh, sorry.
Don't use don't use the JamesBond would never do that.
Remember, I'm James Bond.
Matt Aiken (30:14):
That's right. That's right. So Matt comes in with
another hair brained idea. He'ssearching it's gonna work. But
but this idea of training yourteam or modeling to your team,
this idea of we're about to makea bet.
That's what it is. Here is thethe data that we're using to
support that bet, and we'regoing to make sure that when we
(30:37):
get a result, we're gonnacompare it to the data and say,
did it happen the way we thoughtit was gonna happen? Treat it
like treat assumptions likeassumptions is another way we
talk about this Mhmm. Around mycoaching customers. Because I
have been around so many peoplethat they are not afraid to make
the bets, and they make so manybets with so little data.
(31:00):
And you know what that leaves?That leaves a team going, what
are we doing? What's gonnahappen? Have we have we been
wise in this situation? Are wecompetent in our decision making
process?
So we gotta we gotta treatdecisions like bets, not
certainties.
Alex Judd (31:15):
Yeah, it's interesting. Some of the wisest,
most experienced entrepreneursI've ever worked with, some of
them are serial entrepreneurs,right? Like, they're really good
at starting new things. And themost experienced one, like,
everyone around them, wheneverthey launch something, of
course, they make the launch ofsomething a big deal. And
everyone around them is saying,this is gonna be such a wild
(31:35):
success.
You're gonna crush it with this.Oh my gosh. Like, the market is
so ready for this. And they willalways respond some version of
the same thing, God willing, wethink the market's right for it.
We've done a lot of research.
We've done a lot of homework.We're going to do our absolute
best, but we're not positivethis thing is going to be a
(31:57):
success. Essentially, whatthey're saying there is like, we
are making a data driven bet.But that's like way better than
someone what's crazy is it's thepeople that don't do their
homework that speak withcertainty, whereas the people
that do their homework that haveactually maybe earned a little
bit more confidence, they'relike, hey, God willing, we're
just going to do our best andsee how this goes. And so I
(32:18):
think it's helpful.
I think even just from anemotional and psychological
perspective, to think about itwith a little bit of a looser
grip like that. Okay, I'd loveto hear your kind of closing
thought for people on thistopic. Then I'd love for you to
set up the next episode on thistopic of data driven business.
(32:40):
Give people kind of insight intowhat they can expect.
Matt Aiken (32:43):
In summary, this idea that what is data? Why does
it matter to me? How is it gonnahelp me get where I wanna go? I
I wanna use just a a little alittle joke. Right?
Okay. Here here we go. Let metell you some data. Right?
Tomatoes are fruits.
(33:04):
K? That's data. Like, that'ssome knowledge. We know that.
Right?
Well, is wisdom? Not to put itin a fruit salad. Yes. Yeah. You
can try it sometime.
And then what? You can go, oh,that was not my best fruit
salad. Every leader needs to bekind of matching this idea of we
(33:24):
need the knowledge that tomatois a fruit. We need to develop
the systems, the structures, thethe the wisdom not to put it in
a fruit salad. And so just toknow, data is just a tool.
It's not the ultimate end. It'ssomething that's gonna get us
from here to there. And and soagain, that's probably the
(33:47):
summary, like thinking throughhow do we approach it well, how
do we think through it, how dowe engage with it, how do we
proactively lead, not just byourselves. Like I'm going to
look at the data, but how do Icreate a culture where we are
growing in knowledge and ourwisdom as it relates to decision
making. Now you might be at theend of this episode like, Matt,
(34:07):
I wanna be that leader.
Great. Well, you've got somegood principles to start
practicing. But what I've foundwith my customers is a desire
and some principles gets you toa place where you're ready And
then one of two things happen.There are blockers in your
culture and in yourself thatprevent you from taking the next
step. And so, you know, we'regonna walk through five common
(34:31):
blockers that prevent peoplefrom taking the next step along
with kind of the, we'll call itthe remedy, the way to jump over
those hurdles in the nextepisode.
And then after that, we're goingto be talking through how to get
started. We're really going todive in and get practical with a
how to guide of how I walk mycustomers from our our our
discovery conversation to usingdata wisely and well.
Alex Judd (34:56):
So good, Matt. And thanks for the homework that
you've put into this topic.Thanks for your passion for this
topic and for sharing it inservice of others. Well, there
you have it. Thanks so much forjoining us for this episode.
If you want any of theinformation or resources that we
mentioned, that's all in theshow notes. Hey. Before you go,
could I ask you for one quickfavor? Could you subscribe,
(35:19):
rate, and review this podcastepisode? Your feedback is what
helps our team engage in asequence of never ending
improvement.
We wanna amplify what's valuableto you and obviously reduce or
even remove the things thataren't. Also, you leaving a
positive review is what helps usconnect with, build trust with,
and serve other leaders aroundthe country. So thanks in
(35:41):
advance for helping us out onthat front. Are you a leader
that wants to grow your businessin a healthy way, serve people
exceptionally well, and glorifyGod in the process? Go to
pathforgrowth.com to get moreinformation about our community
of impact driven leaders andschedule a call with our team.
Hey, thank you so much to thePath for Growth team, Kyle
(36:02):
Cummings and the crew atPodCircle, and the remarkable
leaders that are activelyengaged in the Path for Growth
community. Y'all are the peoplethat make this podcast possible.
Y'all know this. We're rootingfor you. We're praying for you.
We wanna see you win. Remember,my strength is not for me. Your
strength is not for you. Ourstrength is for service. Let's
(36:23):
go.
Matt Aiken (36:23):
Let's
Alex Judd (36:24):
go. Let's go.
Matt, you're a small business owner yourself. You're
(00:02):
also one of our one on onecoaches that helps guide small
business owners around thecountry. Why is this topic of
data driven business somethingthat you're so passionate about?
Matt Aiken (00:14):
Yeah. When you first asked me this question, my my
mind was spinning and racing. Iwas like, why? Well, it's just
like the why is something that'sformed over decades of small
instances and reinforcements ofseeing data, playing with data,
and watching it shape and impactmy life. I I always grew up
(00:34):
around computers.
I remember when I was a a youngkid, my dad had a a PC for, like
up in the office and I'd go upand I'd play games and trying to
navigate that. And and so prettyearly on, figured out like, and
there's so many things you cando with a computer. And what's a
computer? Organized data. And sospent so many years playing with
(00:56):
it, seeing the impact of it,whether it's in school or just
in my personal life.
And then kind of in my formativepost college years, I started
realizing how many greatdecisions were based on great
data. And and I think, likeNetflix in particular, right?
One of one of my favoritestories. I used to spend hours
(01:19):
in Blockbuster and, you know,it's so sad that they're not
around anymore, but but who'sactually saying that other than
me? No one.
Why? Blockbuster and Netflixwere looking at the same data.
Mhmm. Like, how long are peoplekeeping their their DVDs? And
they were like, oh, longer andlonger and longer.
And the reason we have Netflixtoday is because in the way that
(01:41):
we do. Right? Because remember,they used to be this this mail
in, you know, you get your twooh, you get two DVDs at a time,
three DVDs at a time. Theystarted realizing, like, people
were holding them forever. AndBlockbuster said, oh, this is
great.
Late fees. And what did Netflixsay? This is odd. Is behavior
changing? And so that's whenthey launched the subscription
(02:02):
model and and put putBlockbuster in the gray that
they're in in today.
So it's just a long history ofplaying with it, feeling
comfortable with it, and thenjust the stories of all the
impacts it's had just, like,driven that passion in me.
Alex Judd (02:15):
I love that you referenced that case study too,
because something that I haven'tthought about is the idea that
they both had the same data thatthey were both looking at the
same thing. It's the way thatthey responded to the data that
really mattered. So I think partof what we're getting into into
these couple episodes, it seemslike, is both the process of
(02:36):
getting the right data becausethat in itself is a hurdle for
small business. But then onceyou have it, how do you respond
to the data that you have andmaybe even equip your team to
respond to the data that they'reseeing? Does that feel right?
Matt Aiken (02:49):
Yeah. I was on a customer call working with one
of my businesses who she and Ihad been talking about a KPI
dashboard for about threemonths. And We finally were
like, Let's get on the phone.What's blocking us from this?
Thinking through, What's goingon?
Alex Judd (03:04):
She was like, I
Matt Aiken (03:04):
know I need it. I just don't know what I need. Can
we start building it? I waslike, Well, no. Why?
Like, is this important? We hadto start with the why and and
and start to use thoseprinciples to to steer and shape
the conversation towards, reallyloving what access we have to to
(03:26):
great information.
Alex Judd (03:27):
That's so good. And I think it really sets us up for
today's conversation becauseeven by having the word data in
an episode title, we run therisk of all the visionary
creative leaders checking outand be like, oh, that episode's
not for me. But what's so coolis I think I am a little bit
more creative, I see the worddata, and I veer away and say,
(03:50):
okay, I'm avoiding that topic,right? That's how I'm wired. And
I think you might even say to adegree, you can be wired that
way too.
However, when I remind myself oflike, Okay, what is data? Data
is done properly is a reallycompelling story about the
present that can help us makedecisions and assumptions about
(04:11):
the future, well, then Iactually start to get more
passionate about this topic thatcan be really dry. So with that,
can you set us up for thecontent that we're going to walk
through today and what peopleshould expect to get out of it?
Matt Aiken (04:26):
Yeah. Well, I mean, today we're really focused on
the why. Like, why should youcare about data? And and maybe
even to a to a greater extent,why thinking about data properly
through the lens of principlesand not a set of rules or a
checklist is so powerful fortaking your business from where
(04:46):
it is to where you want it togo. What are the mindsets or the
guideposts that help us veer andnavigate through the creative
aspect of data?
Alex Judd (04:59):
That's right. And let's define principles for
people because we have aspecific definition that we use
at principles. We say it's aconcisely worded statement of
truth circumstance. We say thatif you want to make someone's
day better, help them solve aproblem. If you want to make
someone's life better or thetotality of their business
better, help them learn aprinciple.
(05:21):
And so what we're going to dotoday is not say, hey, this is
the cookie cutter data you needto go get for your business
today, because that is a verywell, it's a pragmatic approach.
It's really just a tacticalsolution to what really we want
to give you is a greaterawareness and understanding of
what is possible if you, and byextension, your team, start
(05:41):
thinking about data in aprincipled manner. And so that's
really our aim and goal andobjective out of walking through
these five principles. Andunfortunately, I didn't include
as one of the questions for ourepisode, Matt, is it pronounced
data or data? And so I think youand I are just going to
interchange both, and we'regoing to say that either works.
Does that feel good to you?
Matt Aiken (06:02):
Yeah. That sounds great to me. You you schooled
me, when we first talked aboutthis episode. You were like, why
do you call it data? And I waslike, well, uh-oh, Google.
I went and got the data thatthat's how you can have data. I
know.
Alex Judd (06:14):
I we had that conversation and then like
literally now I hear you use itas data all the time and now I
see myself using it. And so Idon't know, Pirates of the
Caribbean, Pirates of theCaribbean, I'm not sure. Data,
data, tomato, tomato, right?Very Okay. With that, let's jump
into principle number one.
What's the first principlepeople need need to understand?
Matt Aiken (06:32):
Yeah. And I I mean, this is probably one of the most
well known quotes in and arounddata from Peter Drucker. Right?
What gets measured gets managed.That's the that's the first
principle.
And and and this principle getsthrown around a lot. And so I
wanna make sure, like, whatwe're talking about is, again,
the principle of it. Like, okay.What what what gets measured
(06:54):
gets managed? This is not a arally call to measure
everything.
What is it? It's measuring whatmatters most. And when you
measure what matters most, youand your team can manage that
outcome, that success that isgetting measured. And so, yeah,
(07:15):
that's that's the principle. Imean, you're a big Peter Drucker
fan.
Is there any other quote you'veheard from Peter more so than
this one?
Alex Judd (07:21):
Probably not. No. It sounds way better with his
Austrian accent than in youraccent, unfortunately, Matt. But
we'll stick with your accent forthis episode. Yeah.
But here's what stands out to meas it relates to this quote in
this context. We work with somany small business owners that
a hunger that they have and I'vebeen there too is that like,
(07:43):
man, I start these things, andthey prove to be successful, but
then we can't sustain thesuccess of this project, of this
business unit, of this productor service unless I'm attending
to it. And they're kind ofsaying like, I wish I could look
away and go do other things, andthis thing could still be
successful. What you're reallysaying there is I wish this
(08:06):
would be managed. I wanted tostart and lead things, and I
wish we could manage this well.
And sometimes we think, oh,that's a personnel problem. And
in reality, I think it'sactually a process problem in
that we go and start the thing,it becomes successful, but then
we don't define, hey, what hasmade this successful and how do
(08:28):
we measure that? We don't askthat question, and therefore,
because we don't know how tomeasure success, we can't
provide those clues to theperson that we're assigning to
manage it, and therefore theymight be doing the best they
can, but they don't even knowwhat to manage. So I think
that's actually a very hyperpractical application of this
principle for the small businessowners that we work with.
Matt Aiken (08:50):
Yeah. I mean, just the idea of ownership. I want my
people to own it. I want them toand I go, own what? I want them
to own this task.
Well, like, if they own the taskand you didn't get the outcome
you were looking for, would thatstill matter? You know, they
start scratching their head. Andso that's why what gets measured
gets managed. And so, you know,there's there's really, like,
(09:11):
three categories for this thatthat Drucker teaches, and I've
seen over and over and overagain. When you measure
something, what are you doing?
You're getting clear. You'regetting clear on on the result,
or the the the rate at whichyou're successful in certain
areas of the business. Right?You get clear and everyone can
see it. That's the number.
It's clear. It's visible. I cansee it on a report, on a
(09:34):
dashboard, or in ourconversation. Hey. What's,
what's the conversion rate?
What's their retention rate?Hey, what's our net income? You
you get that number and everyonecan see it and then go, okay. K.
I can I can I get it?
That's that's where we're that'swhere we are. And so then that
creates a second thing. Itcreates a culture of alignment.
And this is something like youyou can't miss. It doesn't
(09:57):
happen on its own.
But when you see a number, you,a business owner, go, this is
why the number is the number.But if you don't say it out loud
and you don't tell it or preachit to the team, well, they might
have their own thought. And sowhat does it create? If I think
that retention is, you know,where it is because of x y z and
you think it it's there becauseof a a b c, what do we have? We
(10:20):
have misalignment.
We are clear on the number, butare we aligned on the why behind
it? And so like when you startmeasuring things, you want
people to manage it, but we'remanaging our expectations. Why
is that number the way it is?And when you start having that
conversation, the third thinghappens. You start creating this
culture of a continuousimprovement.
How do we get the number fromwhere it is? Because we've
(10:41):
agreed that's the number. Nowwe've probably agreed. We think
this is why the number is theway it is. Okay.
Well, what do we do about it?And so that's where the managed
piece comes in as people starttaking action on the the clear
data that's provided.
Alex Judd (10:57):
And something that strikes me there is, like, we
spend a lot of time on thispodcast talking about how, as a
leader, man, you really stepinto your most powerful role
when you can play the role ofcoach for the people that you
(12:57):
lead. But in the absence ofclear aim and clear measurement
as it relates to how we're doingon that aim, so clear picture of
here, clear picture of there,it's really hard to ask
questions because we'rebasically like, we don't know
where we're going. We don't knowwhere we are, so we're kind of
just chatting at that point.Whereas whenever we
(13:19):
contextualize this in the termsof the journey that we have both
opted into, well, then I can askreally great questions about how
can we go from here to there.Okay, Let's go to principle
number two.
Matt Aiken (13:32):
So second principle, a little bit of Stephen Covey
here. Like, bridging the knowingdoing gap requires proactive
leadership. Okay? So if that ifthat principle is true, then
you're gonna see yourself in oneof two ways. I'm either more on
the knowing side or I'm more onthe doing side.
(13:52):
Well, what does great leadershiprequire? It requires you to
proactively bridge that gap. Sooften when I sit with leaders on
this, they, you know, hey, Alex,what data do we have? Like,
let's dive in. Let's figure outwhat's going on.
And you're going, no, no, no,no, no, no, no. Let's just go
get some stuff done. Like, let'sgo knocking now. Let's get after
(14:13):
it. Let's go do.
And then there's someone else onyour team like, woah, woah,
woah, woah, how do we know we'redoing the right thing? And so
proactive leaders bridge thisknowing doing gap in a proactive
manner. And data helps you do
Alex Judd (14:26):
Yeah, so can you explain for us what is the
knowing person? The personthat's more predisposed to like,
hey, I'm going to aim forknowing first versus the person
that's predisposed to doing.Let's make that really clear.
And then I would love to knowwhich one are you more
predisposed to and which one arethe business owners that you
work with around the country? Isthere a trend that you see
(14:48):
they're more predisposed to?
Matt Aiken (14:49):
Yeah. I'll start with your second question first.
And this is really coming backto our Being a Strategic Thinker
podcast series we did back inthe fall. Are you more visionary
or strategic? Was it strategicor tactical?
That's right. And so oftentimesI find that the people that find
themselves more vision oriented,more strategic oriented, They're
(15:12):
the ones that want to know thedata or at least they're going
to define where they want to be.They're going to have a number,
a target in mind. And so they'reoften that vision strategic side
versus that tactical side, thatdoing side, they've got that
bent towards, I don't care whatthe data says, this is my aim,
(15:33):
this is my target, I'm going in,I gotta get after it. We're
gonna do the do.
And so what is knowing? Knowingis having an understanding,
right, knowledge and anunderstanding around what is
reality. What is the datatelling me? And what is the data
versus the doing side is like,how do we execute at a really,
(15:56):
really high level? We're gonnago do this.
And I've seen people on bothsides be successful. So so to be
clear, there's not one that'sbetter than the other. Although
I think if you ask people inthat camp, which one's better,
they everyone's gonna say, youknow, their camp is better. But,
yeah, for me, I definitely, havea bent towards that that knowing
side because it's really fun tolook and to see and to know and
(16:21):
then have confidence in thedoing side assuming you can
execute at a high level.
Alex Judd (16:25):
Yeah. That's so interesting. I think for me, it
depends on the arena. But Ithink this podcast is actually a
great example where we startedthis podcast I mean, shortly
after we started the business, aa dear friend of mine, Zach Way,
reached out and said, hey. Ithink y'all should have a
podcast.
And, like, I'll do it I'll doall the work for you for free if
if you we just get up andrunning. We're like, okay. Well,
(16:46):
that's definitely a doingmindset. I said, we're not going
to do it for free, but that'sawesome. Let's go for it.
And at that time, if you hadasked me, how many downloads do
you want to get a month? And howare you going to go about
getting those downloads? Or evenhow many downloads did you get
this week? I would have beenlike, I have no clue, and I
don't care. We're doing apodcast, right?
And there was so much joy andalso fruitfulness in just doing
(17:08):
the podcast, and so we werecertainly doing oriented. But we
are now seeing the value andvalidity of saying, okay, let's
kind of make up for some of theknowing that we didn't do at
that time. And it's not becausewe're in this toxic growth, like
we have to do this, otherwisethis podcast is a waste of time.
(17:29):
But the data I'm learning islike, oh, is a really valuable
way to see like which episodesare actually providing value to
leaders and how can we amplifythe things that are serving
people well. And I'm just havingso much fun looking at what the
data is telling us about howeach episode is performing, and
we're looking at seven daydownloads and thirty day
(17:49):
downloads.
And it's like we're kind ofbridging that knowing doing gap.
And so it sounds like whatyou're saying is exactly that.
It's like it's okay to have apropensity towards one or the
other, but there does become atime where you can't always just
do, you need to know, or youcan't always just know,
obviously you have to do.
Matt Aiken (18:07):
Yeah, and what's so fun, right? What's what's the
principle requires proactiveleadership. Proactive leadership
doesn't necessarily mean youdoing it yourself because
there's probably people on yourteam that have a bent to the
other side of that. The personthat has been looking at data
with you likes looking at thedata. We were we did a public
(18:30):
workshop yesterday, and and hisfirst question was, who came?
How many people? How were theybroken down? Were they
qualified? And so he was he waswhat was he doing? He was trying
to harvest and collect theknowing side so that he could
then bridge the gap to the whatdo we do now side of things.
Alex Judd (18:48):
Yeah. So good. Okay. Let's go to principle number
three.
Matt Aiken (18:52):
Principle number three, wise strategy is rooted
in healthy single mindedness.I've seen this, in my company. I
you know, in addition to being acoach here, I also have an
ownership stake and take anactive role in a board game
publishing company. And and sooften in this creative landscape
of making board games, there'sso much we could do. And
(19:15):
honestly, there's been manyseasons where we have maybe
gotten distracted.
Right? Distraction. You saidthis yesterday. Distraction.
We've lost traction because wedidn't have this healthy single
mindedness.
And and so data helps us do thatif it's visible, present,
repeatable. Right? Okay. Cool.We know we could do all these
(19:39):
other things, but what have wecommitted to?
Well, we've committed to theseset of metrics.
Alex Judd (19:45):
Mhmm. Yeah. It's it you know, I I think of it if we
were to use a very tangiblemetaphor, and it's really not a
metaphor. It's actually areality. You know, if if you're
shooting for a sub three hourmarathon, right, and you say,
like, that's my goal, that's myaim, there's a lot of things
that you could do.
(20:05):
You could build your upper bodya lot. You could engage in some
CrossFit workouts and prep. Youcould do all these things. And
it's like, well, that is not thebest way to run a sub three hour
marathon, right? There is aproven best way to run a sub
three hour marathon.
It's amazing how the minute youcommit to that, if you are
(20:26):
wholeheartedly committed to thatfor the right reasons, like
there's a pretty clear path onhow to get there. But the minute
we get a little bit more vagueof like, oh, I want to run a
fast marathon, well then it'slike, Okay, well then if I'm
fine with the ambiguity of thatand I'm going to be satisfied
with the ambiguity of that andthe ambiguity of what is fast,
(20:46):
then it's all good. But then I'mgoing to be way more likely to
get distracted and maybe eat icecream on a Wednesday night or go
to CrossFit a couple times aweek and not stretch a couple
times and things like that. Butthe more laser focused you get
on the outcome, you get really,really measurable steps at that
point. Here's the question Ihave for you on this.
How do you keep it healthy,right? How do you say healthy
(21:09):
single mindedness?
Matt Aiken (21:10):
It's it's definitely the most important aspect of
this principle. I've seen somany leaders who who start
looking at data, and whathappens is it becomes an
obsession. Yeah. And they'relike, okay, hey, can I get the
report? Can I get the report?
What's this number? What do do?And they maybe over index on one
metrics or they over index onmoving that needle at the
(21:34):
expense of others. And so, youknow, when I was thinking
through this principle, was,what what do I really want you
to know about how to apply thisprinciple healthily? It's not to
make the most important thingthe ultimate thing.
It's to make the most importantthing the most important thing
and then give vision, castvision for everyone else's
metrics that they own, funnelingup into or building the
(21:57):
foundation up into that thatsingle-minded aim. So it's it's
not just this is the number andwe're gonna we're gonna break
ourselves to achieve thisnumber. It's this is the number.
We're focused on this. How doall the other numbers play into
this?
Yeah. What do we need to say noto as far as looking at data or
focusing on fixing right now inorder to accomplish the ultimate
(22:21):
or the most important thing thatwe want to accomplish.
Alex Judd (22:24):
This feels like an appropriate time to ask. I am a
Christian business owner. Idesire to attend to the numbers
faithfully. How does this alignwith my beliefs, and how do I do
this in a way that aligns withwhat the Bible teaches?
Matt Aiken (22:40):
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I think about the parable,
what is it, in Matthew about theruler who goes away and hands
the minus to to the workers.Right? Hey.
Here here's 10. Here's five.Here's one. And and then he
leaves, and he has anexpectation. Right?
What are you going to do withthat? And he comes back, and the
(23:00):
first one says, with your 10, Imade 10. Ah, great. Here we go.
Here's a reward.
With your five, I made five. Oh,well done. Here you go. The
other one, hey, with my one,here's your one. Like, I didn't
do anything with it.
I was I was afraid of what Imight that I might lose it, that
I might mess up. And why thatprinciple? Why did that or not
principle. Why did that parablecome to mind? Well, because it's
(23:21):
the idea of stewardship.
The resources that we have, theimpact that we're making is a
gift from God to us. And we arenot recipients that now go, this
is us, this is mine, and I cando with it what I please. But
rather we're stewarding it.We're stewarding our employees.
We're stewarding our ourresources.
(23:43):
We're stewarding our customers.And so wait, what does a healthy
steward do? They give an accountfor it. Right? They give an
account for what was given to meand what I did with it.
And so just knowing that notonly ensures that you're a good
steward, but also can give you asense of, yeah, that's right.
Alex Judd (24:01):
I am being a good steward and I've got options in
how I can be a good steward.Really good. And and it you
know, I think we can stray away.As Christian business owners, we
can stray away from being tooempirical because we're afraid
of being or appearing greedy,which greed is certainly an
enemy of the virtue ofgenerosity that we are called
(25:27):
to. That is for sure.
But the other twin enemy ofgenerosity that we should be on
the lookout for is fear, right?And it's like, if I'm afraid of
what the numbers might tell meor I'm afraid that I might not
hit the goal, that's actually avery selfish thing that is
preventing me from investing theresources God gave me in service
(25:48):
of others. Let's go to principlefour, Matt.
Matt Aiken (25:51):
Yeah. Wisdom does not come from experience. Wisdom
comes from evaluated experience.These next two principles, comes
from a book that I remember whenI read it. I was like, yeah, I
don't know if I'm gonnarecommend it to anybody, but
I'll recommend these principles,to anyone.
It's from Annie Duke is is whereI first heard these things. And
(26:12):
and she's a a a poker player,former professional poker
player, who's now a a businessspeaker and professor. And she
just talks about the principlesof what do we know, what data do
we have, and how does it informthe decisions we make going
forward. And so wisdom comingfrom evaluated experience. Let's
(26:32):
use a poker analogy.
If we're playing poker heads up,know, like, you're James Bond
and I'm the the villain, youknow, in Casino Royale. And and
you go, great. I'm going all inwith two seven. This is the
worst hand in poker. Right?
Two seven. You you literallyit's got the the lowest
percentage of possibly winning.And you go all in and I've got
(26:53):
aces, the best hand in all ofpoker. Right? And then you win.
Right? Okay. Cool. What are yougonna do the next time you get
two seven, Alex?
Alex Judd (27:00):
Yeah. I'm gonna do the exact same thing that I just
You do
Matt Aiken (27:02):
the exact same thing. And guess what? You might
have won the first time, butyou're unlikely to do it the
second time. And so why why usethis example as far as this idea
of evaluated experience? We needa rhythm, a method to
continually evaluate ourexperience, to verify the
(27:24):
decisions that we're making thatwill result fruit in the future.
This is just powerful, right?How often do we do we have
success and then we just eitherdouble down on the thing we're
doing or ignore the thing we wedo and and not do it again
because we didn't take the timeto evaluate what happened, why
did it happen, and
Alex Judd (27:44):
what do I do now? Man, number one, I just wanna
say I so appreciate you makingme James Bond in that story
because I really value that. Butthen number two, I think what
you are talking about here is askill set that many founders,
including myself, have to levelup in if they want to get to the
(28:07):
next stage of business. And thisis an area where I I mean, I
don't know that I could have putwords to this before this
conversation, but you'rehighlighting it for me here is
founders, what are you great at?You're great at drawing
conclusions from anecdotes.
Your intuition says, oh, Iexperienced this with this
customer, and I'm seeing this inthe marketplace. And because of
(28:28):
what I'm experiencinganecdotally, experientially, I'm
going to make these decisionsand take these actions. And I
speak from my experience. If Ihadn't done that for the past
four years, I don't think Pathfor Growth would have been the
success that it is. However, youreach a point where it's like,
number one, my experience islimited, right?
(28:49):
I mean, it is finite. It has alid to it. And eventually, you
can start making decisions onexperiences where it's like,
that was a variable. It wasn'tthe cause. It's exactly what
you're saying in that pokeranalogy, where it's like, I
happen to win with that handlast time, but that's not a
guarantee that I'll win withthat hand every time.
(29:09):
And for you to be able to makemore educated decisions, which
is part of the next degree ofsophistication in business,
you've got to have data. And youcan't rely on just anecdotes and
experience. So Matt, that's so,so, so good. Okay, let's jump to
principle number five.
Matt Aiken (29:25):
Yeah, so principle number five, decisions are bets,
not certainties. This maybefeels like an ancillary
principle to this idea of whatdo great leaders do when they're
building a data culture. Theythey realize that the bets that
they're making are just that.They're bets. They're based on
(29:45):
some amount of knowledge, someamount of wisdom, but they're
not certainties.
And if you treat all of thedecisions you're making in your
business as certainties, one,you're you're gonna find
yourself sounding a littlefoolish in front of your team
because they're gonna go, oh,here he goes again. Alex is on
another one of his, harebrainedideas that he is certain this is
(30:06):
gonna work.
Alex Judd (30:07):
No. I like the James Bond illustration. Oh, sorry.
Don't use don't use the JamesBond would never do that.
Remember, I'm James Bond.
Matt Aiken (30:14):
That's right. That's right. So Matt comes in with
another hair brained idea. He'ssearching it's gonna work. But
but this idea of training yourteam or modeling to your team,
this idea of we're about to makea bet.
That's what it is. Here is thethe data that we're using to
support that bet, and we'regoing to make sure that when we
(30:37):
get a result, we're gonnacompare it to the data and say,
did it happen the way we thoughtit was gonna happen? Treat it
like treat assumptions likeassumptions is another way we
talk about this Mhmm. Around mycoaching customers. Because I
have been around so many peoplethat they are not afraid to make
the bets, and they make so manybets with so little data.
(31:00):
And you know what that leaves?That leaves a team going, what
are we doing? What's gonnahappen? Have we have we been
wise in this situation? Are wecompetent in our decision making
process?
So we gotta we gotta treatdecisions like bets, not
certainties.
Alex Judd (31:15):
Yeah, it's interesting. Some of the wisest,
most experienced entrepreneursI've ever worked with, some of
them are serial entrepreneurs,right? Like, they're really good
at starting new things. And themost experienced one, like,
everyone around them, wheneverthey launch something, of
course, they make the launch ofsomething a big deal. And
everyone around them is saying,this is gonna be such a wild
(31:35):
success.
You're gonna crush it with this.Oh my gosh. Like, the market is
so ready for this. And they willalways respond some version of
the same thing, God willing, wethink the market's right for it.
We've done a lot of research.
We've done a lot of homework.We're going to do our absolute
best, but we're not positivethis thing is going to be a
(31:57):
success. Essentially, whatthey're saying there is like, we
are making a data driven bet.But that's like way better than
someone what's crazy is it's thepeople that don't do their
homework that speak withcertainty, whereas the people
that do their homework that haveactually maybe earned a little
bit more confidence, they'relike, hey, God willing, we're
just going to do our best andsee how this goes. And so I
(32:18):
think it's helpful.
I think even just from anemotional and psychological
perspective, to think about itwith a little bit of a looser
grip like that. Okay, I'd loveto hear your kind of closing
thought for people on thistopic. Then I'd love for you to
set up the next episode on thistopic of data driven business.
(32:40):
Give people kind of insight intowhat they can expect.
Matt Aiken (32:43):
In summary, this idea that what is data? Why does
it matter to me? How is it gonnahelp me get where I wanna go? I
I wanna use just a a little alittle joke. Right?
Okay. Here here we go. Let metell you some data. Right?
Tomatoes are fruits.
(33:04):
K? That's data. Like, that'ssome knowledge. We know that.
Right?
Well, is wisdom? Not to put itin a fruit salad. Yes. Yeah. You
can try it sometime.
And then what? You can go, oh,that was not my best fruit
salad. Every leader needs to bekind of matching this idea of we
(33:24):
need the knowledge that tomatois a fruit. We need to develop
the systems, the structures, thethe the wisdom not to put it in
a fruit salad. And so just toknow, data is just a tool.
It's not the ultimate end. It'ssomething that's gonna get us
from here to there. And and soagain, that's probably the
(33:47):
summary, like thinking throughhow do we approach it well, how
do we think through it, how dowe engage with it, how do we
proactively lead, not just byourselves. Like I'm going to
look at the data, but how do Icreate a culture where we are
growing in knowledge and ourwisdom as it relates to decision
making. Now you might be at theend of this episode like, Matt,
(34:07):
I wanna be that leader.
Great. Well, you've got somegood principles to start
practicing. But what I've foundwith my customers is a desire
and some principles gets you toa place where you're ready And
then one of two things happen.There are blockers in your
culture and in yourself thatprevent you from taking the next
step. And so, you know, we'regonna walk through five common
(34:31):
blockers that prevent peoplefrom taking the next step along
with kind of the, we'll call itthe remedy, the way to jump over
those hurdles in the nextepisode.
And then after that, we're goingto be talking through how to get
started. We're really going todive in and get practical with a
how to guide of how I walk mycustomers from our our our
discovery conversation to usingdata wisely and well.
Alex Judd (34:56):
So good, Matt. And thanks for the homework that
you've put into this topic.Thanks for your passion for this
topic and for sharing it inservice of others. Well, there
you have it. Thanks so much forjoining us for this episode.
If you want any of theinformation or resources that we
mentioned, that's all in theshow notes. Hey. Before you go,
could I ask you for one quickfavor? Could you subscribe,
(35:19):
rate, and review this podcastepisode? Your feedback is what
helps our team engage in asequence of never ending
improvement.
We wanna amplify what's valuableto you and obviously reduce or
even remove the things thataren't. Also, you leaving a
positive review is what helps usconnect with, build trust with,
and serve other leaders aroundthe country. So thanks in
(35:41):
advance for helping us out onthat front. Are you a leader
that wants to grow your businessin a healthy way, serve people
exceptionally well, and glorifyGod in the process? Go to
pathforgrowth.com to get moreinformation about our community
of impact driven leaders andschedule a call with our team.
Hey, thank you so much to thePath for Growth team, Kyle
(36:02):
Cummings and the crew atPodCircle, and the remarkable
leaders that are activelyengaged in the Path for Growth
community. Y'all are the peoplethat make this podcast possible.
Y'all know this. We're rootingfor you. We're praying for you.
We wanna see you win. Remember,my strength is not for me. Your
strength is not for you. Ourstrength is for service. Let's
(36:23):
go.
Matt Aiken (36:23):
Let's
Alex Judd (36:24):
go. Let's go.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season
Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.