November 23, 2024 • 52 mins
Today we've got a real treat – the one and only Lisa Robbin Young is stopping by! Lisa is a self-titled Fusion Creative, and she's on a mission to help micro-business owners and solopreneurs become celebrities in their niche. In this power-packed episode, we dive deep into the world of creative entrepreneurship, the importance of embracing your unique wiring, and the process to becoming a celebrity in your space.
Can't-Miss Moments
- Ever felt like you don't quite fit into one box? Lisa shares her personal journey to discovering the creative entrepreneur spectrum and why someone who's struggling to pick a lane might just be a "fusion creative"...
- ADHD and entrepreneurship: Lisa shares the surprising connection between the two, and this will make a lot of things instantly more clear (at least for a lot of us ADHDers in biz!)...
- Breaking down Beyonce: how exactly does one become a superstar? Turns out there's a formula, and Lisa's here to share both the benefits and the downside people rarely discuss...
- Lisa's "bank balance" analogy will have you fighting the urge to beat yourself up on days when you can't do much...
- Hop on, hop off: Lisa shares a major perspective shift that will change the way you think about "losing" clients...
Lisa's bio:
Lisa Robbin Young is an award-winning speaker, best-selling author, and accomplished musician with multiple albums to her credit. Lisa's been featured on Disney+, is the host of Creative Freedom, and founder of Ark Entertainment Media - a business consultancy for mavericks who want to become a celebrity in their niche in a way that works for how they're uniquely wired.
Lisa believes that the best way to be truly successful in life and business is to be yourself – warts, sparkles, and all – so you can Own Your Dreams Without Selling Your Soul™.
Resources and links:
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Let's connect:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angie Colee (00:03):
Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass, the show
that gives you a virtual seatat the bar for the real
conversations that happenbetween entrepreneurs.
I'm interviewing all kinds ofbusiness owners, from those just
a few years into freelancing toCEOs helming nine-figure
companies.
If you've ever worried thateveryone else just seems to get
it and you're missing somethingor messing things up, this show
(00:24):
is for you.
I'm your host, angie Coley, andlet's get to it.
I'm so excited for this one Onebecause it has been a long time
coming For those of you thathave never run a podcast before.
Sometimes scheduling can be abitch, and it has been a bitch.
It has tried to keep us apart,but we are making it work and
(00:47):
love will keep us together.
Yes, all my musical people.
That makes me happy, and forboth of us, it's our last call
of the day, so we're ending on ahigh note, with the high energy
ready to bring it to you forpermission to kick ass.
So, yeah, there's my littleramble.
Love it.
Well, tell us a little bitabout what you do.
Lisa Robbin Young (01:06):
Well, right now, today, I like to have my
fingers in a lot of pies, whichis why I say it that way.
I'm a fusion creative, sofingers in lots of pies is kind
of how we operatemulti-passionate, et cetera, et
cetera.
So my primary objective rightnow is to help establish
(01:29):
micro-business owners,solopreneurs, become the
celebrity in their space.
I help them figure out the howof getting from where they are
now to that stage, thatspotlight, that presence in the
sun where people are chasingthem instead of them having to
chase other people.
That came out of decades ofwork that some of which I still
(01:54):
do, as a performing artist andauthor, as speaker myself.
So I am a creative entrepreneur.
I work with creativeentrepreneurs.
I've kind of built my wholebusiness around supporting
entrepreneurs with the can-doinspiration and the how-to
education of building aprofitable, sustainable business
, doing what they love thatworks for, how they're wired to
work, so that they can becomethat celebrity in their space.
Angie Colee (02:18):
Oh, I love that and works for how they're wired to
work.
I know that we've had thatconversation on calls before
about how and I honestly thinkthat I attract ADHD people to
this podcast.
Any wonder, considering we takeevery shiny path that appears
before us.
But we were made for business,I'm convinced, because we can
(02:38):
hold the multitudes that wouldburn out your neurotypical brain
and pivot very fast.
So I love this.
Lisa Robbin Young (02:44):
Well, and actually gosh, probably 20 years
ago now I'm dating myself therewas a study that was done and
they were considering rebrandingADHD as latent entrepreneur
type, because so manyentrepreneurs were demonstrating
ADD or ADHD-like tendencies.
(03:05):
I don't have the link to thearticle anywhere near me anymore
, but when I saw that I was likeoh, it makes so much sense for
the reasons that you exactlydescribed.
It's like our brain can holdmultiple ideas at the same time
figure out how they synergize,how they do or don't work
together, whether it's worthpursuing or dropping, synergize
(03:25):
how they do or don't worktogether, whether it's worth
pursuing or dropping.
And if we drop it, we can justpick up and move on to the next
shiny object for lack of abetter word, but it's not always
a shiny object and if you'refusion creative, you can hold
multiple balls in the air at thesame time and still make
progress on them, versus gettingdistracted from one project to
the next, if that makes sense.
Angie Colee (03:46):
Oh, I like that.
I'm writing fusion creativedown because I want to circle
back to that.
But I totally agree with you.
My totally uneducated not apsychologist or any kind of
schooling in psychologyhypothesis is that eventually
this is going to be stripped asa disorder and it's just going
to become like a certainpercentage of the population
(04:06):
works this way, certain percentof the population works that way
, and as we learn more, it'sjust going to be more normalized
.
Lisa Robbin Young (04:13):
Well, as much as I would love to agree with
you, I think once it's in theDSM, it's always in the DSM.
It's really hard to get adiagnosis out of the manuals.
But I agree with you.
I think the normalization of itis going to become much more
blatant and obvious, as we'venoticed with a lot of things
(04:33):
that were taboo conversations orthings that we just didn't talk
about in the past 50, 60, 100years.
The light is being shined onthose corners now and it's like,
well, yeah, disabilities justmean you're differently abled,
it doesn't mean there's anythingwrong with you and et cetera,
et cetera.
Right, lots of different thingsthat once were seen as we don't
(04:56):
talk about, that are now comingto light, as this is just part
of the human experience y'allGet with the program.
Angie Colee (05:03):
Mm-hmm, and it's okay, and it doesn't really make
that much of a difference toacknowledge that we've got the
differences.
It still works.
It's fantastic, right.
I want to circle back to thisfusion creative thing, because
that's the first time I've heardthat used and it instantly made
me curious.
I need to know more.
Lisa Robbin Young (05:25):
So the reason you've probably never heard it
before is because it's a termthat I coined when I identified
what I call the creativeentrepreneur type spectrum.
So years ago, before I wrote mylast book, I was in a crisis in
my business, trying to figureout who my right audience was.
What was I really here to do?
Because I had done so manythings, I just couldn't see the
(05:46):
path forward.
And so I sat down with a pileof sticky notes and I started
writing down the client that Iworked with and what we worked
on.
And I had all of these stickynotes laying all over and I
started to try and find thepatterns.
You know, oh, these guys areall kind of the same.
I'm going to put them over here.
And so are these guys, I'mgoing to put them over there.
My kid thought I was doing somekind of crazy craft project
(06:07):
with sticky notes, and I'm likeno, I'm working, I'm working
here.
And so I ended up having tworelatively solid piles.
But then I had this handful ofstragglers that didn't really
fit in either pile and I waslike I feel like I'm one of
those stragglers, like I don'treally belong in either pile,
(06:27):
and that's when I started to getclarity that it wasn't two
camps, it was a spectrum.
So we have this spectrum ofcreativity and I like to say
everyone is creative andentrepreneurs are creative, but
not all creatives areentrepreneurs.
And so when we look at thisspectrum of creative
(06:48):
entrepreneurship, we have what Icall, on one end, the chaotic
creatives, and that's not apejorative term at all, it
simply means the way your brainis wired.
It's more about theexperiential nature of what
you're bringing to the world.
Go with the flow, trust yourgut, honor your instincts,
channel it from the divine.
(07:09):
And these are the people thatwe typically classify as
creative folks.
They're usually artists,musicians, writers, those kinds
of folks.
On the other end of the spectrum, we have the linear creatives.
For these folks, other end ofthe spectrum, we have the linear
creatives.
For these folks, order is therule of the day Systems,
(07:30):
processes, checklists,everything's got a place and
everything's in its place,deadlines are met, there's no
deviation.
But then for folks like mefusion creatives we stand in the
middle with one foot in eachworld.
We can speak both languageswith relative ease.
We love and hate both ends ofthis spectrum, depending on the
(07:53):
day.
We can't stay in one camp fortoo long.
If I stay in that linear modefor too long, I start to feel
imprisoned and trapped becausethat's my chaotic cycle going on
.
This is too much structure.
But if I spend all my day inthe chaotic realm all the time,
then my linear side is like weneed to put some roots down, we
(08:15):
need to get grounded.
I'm a kite without a string.
There's no structure here.
So fusion creatives kind ofstand in the middle between
these two worlds so that we cannavigate it, and that's part of
why we're kind of that jack ofall trades.
But our biggest challenge thenis asking for help, because
while I'm so good at all theseother things, I should just be
able to do them.
And it's faster if I just do itmyself, which is true to a
(08:39):
point.
But at some point, if you'restill doing everything yourself,
you're left holding all thethings.
So you have to get good atempowering and delegating to
your team so that they cansupport you to show up and be
the talent that you are, becausethere is nobody else that has
the same combination of skillsets that you have and it's
important for you to lean intoboth.
(09:00):
And so for linears, we wantthem to lean into systems and
processes because typically thatgets you to financial success
more quickly.
But without any type of userexperience for what it is that
you offer, you won't get thosecustomers and keep them.
On the other hand, chaotics cantend to have champagne wishes
(09:23):
and Kool-Aid money.
On the other hand, chaotics cantend to have champagne wishes
and Kool-Aid money and they wanteverything to look and feel a
certain way and it has tomeasure up to this standard of
excellence where it's crap andI'm not going to ship it and for
them they need to understand.
Hey, we start here and then weiterate, right, yes, I get, you
want that Lamborghini experience, but today we got to start at a
(09:43):
Yugo because that's whereyou're at, that's where your
budget's at right.
Like we can stretch that, butwe can't.
We can't get blood out of astone, right?
And when I talk about money Italk about I really talk about
all the resources time, energy,money, effort and attention.
Because when we talk about thereturn on resources versus the
return on investment, then it'snot just money, especially for
(10:05):
early stage entrepreneurs, wheremoney is usually tight anyways.
It's about what are theresources that we have and how
do we put those to best use,again, in the ways that work for
how you're wired to work.
Angie Colee (10:15):
I love that.
Okay, first of all, severalthings as I was taking notes.
One I have never heard somebodyso clearly articulate what it's
like to be inside my headbefore.
I feel like you get me on adeep spiritual level, because I
definitely resonated with thefusion creative.
And if I spend too much time oneither side, I start to get a
little Absolutely, Absolutely.
(10:38):
And I also You're the onlyother person that I've really
heard talk about this likereturn on investment.
We can get so hooked on that inbusiness and I understand that
it's important to measure thesethings.
And also, sometimes you have toget resourceful.
Sometimes you have to get superscrappy and super creative and
make it work when the money isnot there to invest or you've
(10:59):
only got time to invest.
So I love that we're talkingabout that, the resources, what
we can do to get into actioneven when the money is not there
.
It's fantastic.
Lisa Robbin Young (11:09):
Yeah, yeah, when I was single-momming it, uh
, two or something years ago.
Uh, you, you only have so muchtime, so much energy, so much
ability, so many spoons forthose of you who are familiar
with spoon theory and you can'tput them everywhere.
So you have to be very judiciousand intentional on where can I
(11:33):
put this that's going to give methe best possible return,
because once it's out there,it's gone.
I don't get that time back, Idon't get that energy back, I
don't get those moments withoutmy kids back.
So, if I'm going to put it outthere, not to obsess over making
the perfect choice, but what'sthe best possible choice that I
(11:53):
can make with the informationthat I've been getting, to move
the needle as far as I can, oneof the things I tell my clients
all the time is do what you canas you are able, and some days
you're going to be more ablethan others, and we have to
acknowledge that our capacitychanges, and that's true of
normative body types just aswell as it is anybody with a
neurodivergence or a disabilityor aging parents that they're
(12:17):
caring for.
Our containers can only hold somuch, and when it's full, it's
full, and when it's empty, it'sempty and we have to be
realistic about that, regardlessof what kind of a business
we're trying to build.
Angie Colee (12:29):
Oh, I love that and I love that you took the time
to specify, because we talk alot about neurodiversity and
capabilities and abilities andcapacity a lot on this show, but
I think it's important to pointthat out for everybody.
This is a universal principlewhat you can give today is not
the same as what you can givetomorrow is not the same as what
(12:49):
you can give on your best dayor your worst day or a day that
you're sick, and we've got tostop putting this pressure on
ourselves to show upconsistently from day to day to
constantly be outputting at thesame level.
Like I mentioned it a littlebit before our well, maybe I
didn't mention it before we wererecording.
I'm operating on very littlesleep today, but I was like shit
(13:11):
is going to happen.
Lisa and I are going to talk.
That is the end of it.
Last night, both of my catsdecided to conspire against me
and when one was up and wakingme up, the other was down and
vice versa, and they did thatstarting at 3.30 this morning.
And so we're here today justdoing as much quiet work as we
can, with a little bit ofnappage and a lot of outreach.
(13:31):
So I can wait for those repliesto come in later.
This is the day for me to justfocus on quiet stuff, on
thinking stuff and taking iteasy, instead of like, oh my God
, I got to pitch this, I got todo that.
Lisa Robbin Young (13:43):
Knock it all off Absolutely.
It's really important for us torecognize that.
I equate it to like yourcheckbook right Today, you may
have $10,000 in the bank.
Tomorrow, you may have $2 inthe bank.
Well, you can't spend $10,000on a day when you only have two.
They have $2 in the bank.
Well, you can't spend $10,000on a day when you only have two,
and you have to be honest aboutthat.
(14:07):
The challenge that we have asindividuals and corporately, as
a society, is we've got this bigoverarching oppressor called
capitalism that's pushing downon us, saying we need to produce
an output in order to beconsidered valuable, useful
contributors to society, andwe've taken that to mean we have
to be making money.
There are lots of ways tocontribute, and many of them
(14:30):
don't seem to come with the sameprice tag or value attached to
them as others.
I was listening this morning toNPR and they were talking about
a baseball player who's getting$70 million a year for the next
10 years, and I'm like $700million could go a long way
towards helping a lot of peopledo a lot of things and by that
(14:50):
standard, he's well worth theinvestment that the team is
making into his performance.
So, yes, there is that.
But you said something elsethat I want to go back to the
idea of consistency, right, andI think some of us have this
idea that consistency andfrequency are the same thing.
To show up consistently, I gotto be in the same place every
day, beating the same drum of mymarketing message, so that
(15:13):
everybody knows who I am andwhat I'm hearing.
All of that Consistency andfrequency are not the same thing
.
Consistency is about thequality of what you're doing.
When you see and I'm just goingto use McDonald's when you see
McDonald's branding in the wild,you know it's McDonald's
because it looks the sameeverywhere.
(15:33):
That's consistency.
It's not about there's aMcDonald's on every street
corner.
There might be, but that'sfrequency.
Every day, every other day,every 10.
There might be, but that'sfrequency.
Every day, every other day,every 10 blocks, every two miles
that's frequency.
Consistency means when I showup, you know it's me.
I'm sharing a message that'sfamiliar or resonates with my
(15:56):
right audience.
I'm not here to talk toeverybody.
I'm here to talk to thosepeople and the message that I'm
sending to talk to those people.
And the message that I'msending to those people is
something that's becoming morefamiliar to them as they hear it
over time.
Now that can be frequent, butit doesn't have to be.
In my early years as a businesscoach, I talked about building a
noble empire and living aninspired life.
(16:17):
I don't use the term empirenearly as much now because I was
trying to distinguish the nobleempire from the evil empire,
and my Star Wars fans understood.
But now there's so much talkabout colonialism and patriarchy
that that word has a wholedifferent level of baggage on it
.
So over time I've changed thatlanguage to owning your dreams
(16:41):
without selling your soul.
Same concept, different words,familiar message coming from
somebody who you've gotten toknow over the years and years.
I'm not all of a sudden sayingtuna fish sandwiches are great.
That's completely differentmessage than what I've been
talking about for the last 30years in the online world.
So consistency is about showingup in ways that are recognizable
(17:04):
to your right audience andbecoming more familiar so that
they're like ah yes, if yourquality suddenly changes, that's
not consistent.
Even if you're going from mehto wow, that's not consistent.
Now you have to build a newconsistency flow with this new
level.
You know, every time you levelup people who've known you as
(17:25):
one thing for a while.
They kind of can freak out.
Sometimes they're like oh,sometimes they love it in a
brief, right away.
Other times they may be takenaback and they have to make a
decision.
Do I want to continue ridingthis trainer, or is this my stop
and my time to get off Right?
And we have to let people dothat.
You know, not everybody's goingto come along with you for the
entire ride, and that's okay.
(17:45):
They're there for as long asthey need to be, just like
you're there for as long as youneed to be, and then you move on
to the next thing.
That's part of how we evolve.
Angie Colee (17:53):
Oh, I love that distinction too, especially like
the hop on, hop off.
So often it's easy, especiallythe micro business, as you
mentioned.
Solopreneurs, like so much ofourselves, go into building this
thing to servicing the clients,to doing whatever we're doing.
It's hard not to take thatpersonally.
When somebody wants to get offthe train right, like did I do
something wrong?
Was I not helping?
Maybe it's just their stuff.
(18:15):
Like, maybe you actually justsolved the problem and you did
such a kick ass job, but theydon't need any help anymore.
And now it's on to solve thenext problem.
Those things could all be true,and I also loved the
distinction that you made.
I thought this was so brilliantthat the time put in
inconsistency.
That's something that I hear alot lately with especially
people in some of the copywritergroups that I've hung out in
(18:37):
online being like I can't go forthat role, I can't pitch for
this thing, because they requirea certain amount of experience,
and usually when they sayamount of experience, they're
thinking in terms of years.
I've been in this game for fiveyears and I'm like but did you
really put in five years worthof work, did you really?
And same thing I've been in thegame for 14 years as a marketer
(19:01):
and as a creative.
Did I really put in 14 years ofwork?
No, there were definitely days,even in the corporate office as
a full-time paid creative, thatI was like I did my 90 minutes
of work for the day and the restof the day is just goofing off
and surfing the internet andgoing to the break room Mailing
it in.
Yeah, like but that countstoward my years of experience
Like we have this weird tie tolike the time that we had our
(19:23):
butt in a chair to our value,and I'm like exactly what you
said it's the quality, it's notthe time.
We've got to get that straight.
Lisa Robbin Young (19:32):
I've seen people fresh out of school who
are so innovative and sothoughtful in their approach to
the work that they're doing thatthey perform circles around
somebody who's been at it for 30years.
Yes, and it's as much as wewant to live in a meritocracy.
It's those kinds of folks thatboth terrify me and get me
(19:55):
really excited.
Terrify me because obviouslythey're raising the bar for
everyone and sometimes we're notup for the challenge.
Sometimes we're like can't wejust keep things easy for a
little while?
Cause it has been as a Gen Xer.
It has been a long, winding,stressful road and I would just
like to take a nap and have acookie right now.
(20:17):
And you know, here comes this 20something arts upstart.
I mean, my kid, my oldest, ispushing 30.
And I'm like please do notcompare yourself to the Mark
Zuckerbergs of the world.
By the time he was 30, he had abillion dollar business and and
and and like if you try tomeasure yourself by that
yardstick, you're going to feellike a failure every day of your
(20:38):
life.
Instead, look at where you'vebeen and how far you've come and
recognize and this is somethingI tell my clients all the time
too success is a destination andyou're already there.
Take a look around you.
This is success today, based onwhere you've been in the past.
Every decision, every choicethat you've made, everything
(20:58):
that you've said you're going todo and not do, has all led you
to this moment, right here, andthis is success for you.
And if you don't like what yousee, if it doesn't feel
successful for you, then you getto make some different choices
so that tomorrow's success canlook differently.
Angie Colee (21:13):
Ooh, I'm just going to like let that sit first.
That was like a mic drop moment.
I'm not going to drop themicrophone because this shit's
expensive, but we're going tohave a mic drop moment.
Right, that is so great topoint out.
You don't have any otherdestination aside from your own.
You don't have any timelineaside from your own.
If you want to move faster, youget to move faster.
(21:33):
If you want to slow it on down,you get to slow it on down.
These are all choices that haveto come from you, not from
society outside you.
And you're not a failure, and Ilove that reframe of putting it
back on how far we've come andthat we are a success right now
Because, as you were saying that, I was suddenly picturing me
bored to tears in my corporateoffice thinking about what's
(21:55):
next.
She couldn't imagine thishosting a podcast.
Having written a book, shecould not picture this because
all she knew was what she got toat that point.
So this is success, even ifit's not entirely where I want
to be, but I'm never entirelywhere I want to be because it's
a journey.
Lisa Robbin Young (22:13):
Well, and we're always moving the
goalposts.
I mean that success kind of Idon't want to say demands, but
success demands that we continueto move the goalposts.
We have to get to a point wherewe're like you know what, this
is enough.
And for most of us, especiallyambitious entrepreneurs, we're
always going to be moving thatgoalpost a little bit.
But the more important questionis are we moving that goalpost
because it inspires us orbecause we feel compelled to,
(22:36):
because that's what society saysis right?
That's what we should be doing?
Are we shooting on ourselves orare we really recognizing that?
No, this is the right next stepfor me, and we need to be
mindful of that.
We need to really think aboutthat in the picture, the bigger
scope of what we're doing.
I did a TED Talk a couple ofyears ago about this.
Quest for growth for growth'ssake is not sustainable.
(22:59):
Like as a planet, we can't justcontain and sustain perpetual
growth.
Instead, we need to be movingtowards whatever enoughness
looks like for us, and maybetoday that is a nap in a cookie,
and maybe tomorrow it'slaunching a new program, or
maybe the next day it's being onAngie's podcast and we are the
(23:21):
success today that our pastselves only dreamed of.
So imagine what our future selfis like to us now, like that's
where we're headed.
Angie Colee (23:31):
Ooh, I like that so , so much.
And I feel that forward drive Ithink a lot of entrepreneurs do
and that pressure to be fasteror better or like comparison to
peers and colleagues and whatnot, and I think it clicked for me
one day.
It literally was just anepiphany, a thought that popped
in my head when it was like,okay, I'm looking ahead of me,
(23:54):
at the people that I aspire tobe like, the people who inspire
me, who push me to be better andto always strive right, and I
forget that behind me there arepeople looking at me like that
that are admiring exactly whereI am.
When I'm not feeling like I'menough right, when I'm feeling
(24:14):
like I still have so far to go,they're looking at where I am
and going I have so far to catchup with her.
There's always somebody aheadwith her.
Like there's always somebodyahead of you, there's always
somebody behind you, and I don'tmean that in like a judgy
better than less.
No, absolutely not, absolutelynot.
Lisa Robbin Young (24:28):
yeah, so maybe 10-15 years ago, I was in
a class designed for musiciansto help them build their careers
and their trajectories, and Igot the best piece of advice
from the instructor that Iprobably ever gotten when we
talk about careers, don't lookat that person that you aspire
(24:48):
to be right now.
Look at what they were doingwhen they were at where you are
right now.
Right.
So if you're in the earlystages of your career, look at
what they were doing in theearly stages of your career.
Look at what they were doing inthe early stages of their
career.
You want to have a career likethe Beatles.
In the early years of theircareer, they were playing seven
nights a week in a dive bar inGermany.
(25:10):
Two shows a night, three showsa night.
Are you doing something likethat?
Well, if you are now, you canlook towards what the Beatles
were up to.
But if you're not, that's notan indication of oh my God, I
suck, I'm terrible.
And judging yourself, it's aquestion of am I willing to do
what they did to get to wherethey got?
And if not, what am I willingto do?
(25:30):
What do I have the capacity todo?
Because, look, if you've gottwo kids.
There's no way you're gonna beable to perform seven nights a
week, two or three shows a nightand have any kind of quality
time with your children.
It's just not feasible.
So what can you do?
Well, maybe I can do one show aweek.
Does that mean it's going totake me longer to get to Beatles
level status?
Probably, and are you okay withthat?
(25:52):
Like you have to make thosekinds of decisions from a place
of I am the business owner and Iget to decide what this is
going to look like, and I get todecide what I'm willing to
invest, what I'm willing tospend of my resources.
Right Again, resources, time,energy, money, effort and
attention.
It's not just about well, Ihave $12.
(26:13):
Where are you going to investthose resources to get the best
return on them possible for you?
And that's one of the thingsthat I love helping my clients
do.
Angie Colee (26:23):
Oh, that's so fantastic and that's such a good
point too, and that brings methat so nicely brings us back
around to the celebrity in yourniche.
But I wanted to make a pointreal quick too because, like we
briefly mentioned, that you andI are both musical people.
Right, I had a band for a longtime and people would always ask
me oh, what's the plan there?
Are you going to do an album?
I was like we all have likecareers and businesses.
(26:44):
We just want to make music andplay at dive bars a couple of
times a week and have a reallygood time.
I don't think anybody in thatband had delusions is the wrong
word but like a vision of, atthis age, we're going to hit the
road and I say that like.
(27:07):
So you bring the perspective ofhaving kids.
I have no kids and I still haveno desire to work.
Seven shows or seven nights aweek, two to three shows a night
Ooh, it's exhausting enough todo one day of podcast recording.
Lisa Robbin Young (27:13):
Right, right, exactly, and that's a
reflection of your capacity.
I mean, if Beyonce has gotenough minions that she can go
in the studio for 16 hours, noteat, not drink, not sleep, and
get her record done, that'sbecause she has all these other
resources to support her to beable to go do that.
So many times we look atBeyonce and go I could never do
(27:35):
that.
Well, if you had everything shehad, maybe you could, but you
don't.
So what are you going to dodifferently?
Right, and and being consciousof opportunity costs, right,
like, there is always atrade-off.
I have a you were talking aboutyour band.
I have a good friend who is asecurity guard with an amazing
(27:56):
voice, just killer vocals, andhe never wanted to become a
professional singer because hedidn't want to ruin the joy of
just being able to show up andsing.
If he gets paid occasionally,that's cool, but that's not why
he does it.
And we really have to get clearon what are our goals, what are
, what is our vision for ourlife, for our lifestyle, for our
livelihood?
(28:16):
And you know, whip out themagic paintbrush.
I do this to all my clients.
If you can paint the picture ofyour life and work to look and
feel and be exactly what youwant it to be what's in the
picture and you don't have tolet anything else into that
picture in your mind.
Now reality might play out alittle differently, but you
still get to make choices.
(28:37):
You know, one of the thingsthat you said earlier was about
you know you can go faster andsometimes we can't, and we have
to acknowledge that.
Sometimes we can't go fasterbecause we don't have the
resources to go faster.
So what can you do to supportyourself, financially or
otherwise, so that you canmaintain something?
Do what you can, as you areable, that's.
You know.
(28:58):
Plenty of stories abound offamous entrepreneurs who are in
their 60s, 70s, 80s and beyondwhen they finally had their
first big break.
Right, colonel Sanders, grandmaMoses, take your pick.
If it's worth pursuing, it'sworth pursuing for a lifetime.
Don't give up just because it'sgoing to take some time yeah,
(29:20):
and don't give up for somefucking bullshit.
Angie Colee (29:22):
Arbitrary number that, oh my god, came out of the
universe somehow, aka socialmedia.
So and so had their firstbillion by 20.
Yeah, most of the I know.
You know who I'm talking about.
That is not a self-madebillionaire, that is somebody
that came to the table with thecard stacked in their favor.
(29:42):
You know what I mean?
The resource is exactly like wetalked about.
Lisa Robbin Young (29:46):
And the reality is nobody is self-made
right.
Self-made implies completeself-sufficiency, complete
sovereignty and autonomy, withno help anywhere.
And I got to be blunt.
Every customer is a somebodyand they bought from you.
You're not self-made because itwas their purchase that enabled
you to be able to do the nextthing or iterate on the product
(30:09):
or whatever.
We are an ecosystem of buyersand sellers, of consumers and
makers, of creators andsustainers, and To pretend
otherwise discounts the verypeople who helped get you to
where you are, and I mean.
I understand the idea of beingself-made and pulling yourself
(30:30):
up by the bootstraps, but in itsoriginal intention, pulling
yourself up by the bootstrapswas an impossibility and meant
to be an insult.
I'm not interested in receivingand holding on to that anymore.
I used to wear it like a badgeof courage in my 20s, not
anymore, thanks.
If I'm bootstrapping, I'm doingsomething wrong.
I need to be in community withmy people to rise all the ships
(30:53):
on my tide.
Angie Colee (30:54):
Exactly.
Oh my gosh, my perspectivechanged so much when I realized
we're not all competing for aslice of the same pie, which
means most people aren't goingto get shit right.
We're all coming together withthe ingredients that we've got
and building an infinite pie.
I like all kinds of differentflavors, and some of it might be
pizza pie and some of it mightbe key lime pie, and like
(31:15):
everybody gets some, becausewe're all contributing and we're
all working together instead ofhoarding and there goes dreamy,
idealistic Angie, but that'sthe vision that I have.
Where we realize that, let meclimb up on my soapbox.
Where we realize that thepicture that we've been getting
is warped and skewed in favor ofthe people who have made a
(31:37):
kajillion dollars off the restof us, basically telling us oh,
you can have what I have too, ifonly you work hard enough, and
I have all the resources andsupport and connections that you
did.
Lisa Robbin Young (31:47):
Yes, yes, if I can do it, you can too, is
such a deceptive term becauseyou can't possibly know what
went on behind the scenes insomebody's life.
What kind of butterfly effectmay have had a hand in getting
them to where they are in thismoment.
Had Zuckerberg not gone toschool with those twins who had
(32:12):
the idea for Facebook in thefirst place, he never would have
had Facebook.
It would have been somethingelse.
You just don't know whatinfluence you have, or someone
else has, on the trajectory ofyour career, and you can't trust
that just because somebody elsemade six figures in six minutes
(32:33):
, that if you follow theirstep-by-step blueprint, you will
too, because you didn't have a$10,000 credit limit credit card
, like they did, to pay forFacebook ads.
Well, now what?
How am I supposed to do that?
You can't right.
Instead, it's aboutunderstanding the underlying
principles and going oh okay,they got successful because they
(32:53):
advertise.
What can I do that takesadvantage of that strategy, or
is that strategy even right forme in the first place?
And if it's not, what otherstrategy would produce a
comparable result?
And how do we implement thatinto my business?
Angie Colee (33:07):
Yes, I love that, and I think that's getting to
kind of the crux of the matterand I've coached people and I've
had to be coached on thisbefore too of like believing
that there's some sort ofblueprint.
If only I can just sit down andthink hard enough and come up
with the exact step-by-step planand the backup plan and the
backup backup plan and thebackup to the backup backup plan
(33:28):
.
Then I will follow all of thesteps, there will be no
stumbling, and I will get tothat finish line and make it
Trademark.
That's not the way it works,though.
Lisa Robbin Young (33:41):
Yeah, I mean there are just too many unknown
quantities between here andthere, and when I'm working with
a client and I'm like, okay, sothis is your success map, right
, like this is the stage yousaid you wanted to get on.
These are the milestones thatyou can expect to go through
before that's gonna become anopportunity that you can have
Now.
(34:01):
When will that happen?
Good question.
How will that happen?
Good question.
How will that happen?
Even better question.
But what you want to look foris when these things start
showing up on your radar, thenit's time to start moving into
the next milestone.
And when those things arestarting to happen, now it's
time to move to the nextmilestone and then you can
reasonably have a reasonablesense that this is a likelihood
(34:22):
now, not an improbability, right, and the closer you move and
keep moving towards that goal.
So it's not a cookie cutterblueprint.
I think you can develop aroadmap to help move you in the
right direction.
But detours happen all the timeand you have to be prepared for
what do I do if there's adetour?
What do I do?
When I was 10 years old, I wantto be a rock star.
(34:44):
I knew that was what I wasgoing to do with my whole life.
I went to school, got a degreein music, you know, I took
business classes so that Ididn't end up getting taken by
my manager Like I did all ofthat.
And then I was like, oh hey,let's have a child, let's get
married, let's have plan.
Those were not on my bingo card.
And in the course of that I gotreally clear that the things I
(35:08):
liked about being a rock starwere being able to perform,
being in front of an audience,having a spotlight and making
people feel good aboutthemselves.
And I'm like you know what?
I can do all of that myself.
This way, instead of waitingfor somebody to discover me and
put me on tour, I can record myown albums, I can write my own
(35:28):
books, I can put those out intothe world, I can tour as much or
as little as I want to on myown and I can share my stories
and inspire my audience withouthaving to wait to be picked.
If I had waited to be picked, Iwould still be waiting, because
(35:49):
I don't have the quote-un looksor the quote unquote classic,
whatever's that they're lookingto to spend millions of dollars
on and put on tour.
But I can still be successfulin my own way, the way I want to
, with way more sovereigntydoing it this way.
So you have to get really clearon what is it that you really
want about that goal.
One of the things I say all thetime is your goal is not always
(36:10):
the goal.
We go through life with a veryparochial, limited view of
things and all we can see iswhat's in front of us until we
take a step, and usually it's agoal that acts as a catalyst to
get us moving towards it.
So then we step out and, oh mygosh, now I can see these other
possibilities and oh, I thinkthat's more important.
Now I'm going to go in thatdirection, which is great.
(36:33):
That doesn't mean that the goalyou had set for yourself that
you didn't achieve makes you afailure, because the goal did
its job.
It got you off the stick, itgot you to move so that you
could see the next thing and go,take that step in that
direction.
Angie Colee (36:45):
Yes, that is such a critical distinction.
Just because you moved towardthe goal and then the goal
changed doesn't make you bad orwrong, doesn't mean your first
goal was off track, doesn't meanthat you're wishy-washy or
anything like that.
You can't get this contextuntil you are moving forward and
you can see more than you canfrom your current vantage point.
And I think all of this bringsus around nicely to this idea of
(37:09):
celebrity that you talked about.
We're circling all the way backto the beginning.
I want to know more about that,and you don't have to give away
your secret sauce, unless youwant to share your secret sauce,
like this idea of becomingcelebrity, like with everything
that we've just talked about,with resources and time and
things like that.
How is it that you're able tomake this happen with people who
(37:30):
are micro businesses andsolopreneurs?
Lisa Robbin Young (37:32):
Well, let's be really clear.
I don't make anything happen.
What I do is show them the how,because so many times people
are like I don't know how, Iknow what I want and I can't
tell you how many times peoplehave come to me and said I want
to be the insert celebrity hereof my niche the Bernie Brown of
my industry, the Dr Ruth of myindustry, the Sherlock Holmes of
(37:53):
my industry and it's like, okay.
So I've spent the last severalyears since my last book
figuring out what are theelements that distinguish a
celebrity from everybody else.
Great example what makesBeyonce, beyonce and Solange
Solange?
They are sisters, they grew upin the same house.
(38:13):
They both have great voices.
Why did Beyonce rise to thelevel of stardom that she did
and Solange didn't?
Or any of the other members ofDestiny's Child, for that matter
.
All great singers, not aBeyonce.
What set them apart?
And so I discovered these,discovered.
I uncovered, identified thesenine different elements that
(38:35):
basically come down to clarity,confidence and courage.
You've got to have crystalclarity on different aspects of
who you are, what matters to youand what you're about in the
world.
That gives you the ability tomake more confident decisions
about what you're going to dowhat you're not going to do,
what you're going to toleratewhat you're not going to
tolerate, and that then allowsyou to take courageous action.
(38:57):
Courageous action, not massiveaction which we hear so much in
the you know internet self-helpwoo-woo circles.
It doesn't always happen.
Sometimes the most courageousaction you can take is to be
still and do nothing, and that'sreally hard and it's not big,
but it's big for you, right?
So we're talking aboutcourageous actions to change
(39:20):
course when things aren'tworking.
I talk about Katy Perry quite abit.
She was a Christian musicartist and she was not getting
traction.
Yeah, I know Most people go.
She was what she was aChristian artist.
Taylor Swift was in country andshe was like let's go do pop.
And now she's a billionaire.
Right Like, we have to decidefor ourselves that sometimes and
I'm gonna misquote andslaughter Marilyn Monroe's idea
(39:43):
here Sometimes, good and I'mgoing to misquote and slaughter
Marilyn Monroe's idea heresometimes good things have to
fall apart so the better thingscan fall together.
Right Like, we have to bewilling to let go of the good
for the great, and so many of usare so risk averse that it's
hard to do that.
Right, and understandably so inthis capitalist society in
which we live, and so being ableto make those confident
decisions and take thosecourageous actions distinguish
(40:04):
people.
And so when I'm sitting downwith somebody who wants to be
that person, you know they'vecome to me and they say you know
, I can't explain it.
I've known since I was a kidthat I'm supposed to be on stage
in front of millions of people,or hundreds of thousands of
people, or talking to the worldabout this message or this
mission or this vision that Ihave, but I don't know how to
get there.
Or but I'm afraid of andtypically it's around.
(40:27):
I don't want to cause harm orbe harmed.
I'm afraid that it's going tobe too much and that it's all
going to come collapsing downaround on my ears, or I just
don't know how to do it Like Ijust need somebody to show me
how.
So we sit down and we look atend to end, what's the context
of your life, what are thecapacity constraints that you
(40:48):
have, and then what are themilestones to get you from where
you are to where you want to be, and how do we navigate those
in ways that work for how you'rewired.
You know if you've got kids andthey're all under 10, that
looks different than somebodywho's single and unencumbered by
anything else in life, somebodywho has a lot of resources,
versus somebody who has verylittle resources.
(41:09):
I had a client recently who waslike I want to hit this income
goal and I want to do it in thenext six months because I want
to have a baby by the end of theyear.
And I'm like are you pregnantalready?
And she's like no, and I'm likethat has to happen in order to
have a baby by the end of theyear.
So maybe you want to bump thattimeline out a little bit,
because if you're pregnantduring the middle of this kind
of a launch, that could createsome other problems because
(41:30):
you've never been pregnantbefore and that's a huge
question mark.
And she's like I never evenconsidered that Right.
So I'm such an overthinker.
I can see all of thesedifferent possibilities and go,
okay, how's that going to impactyou?
And sometimes we don't have theanswer.
So it becomes a question mark.
When this shows up, we have tofigure out how to address that
(41:52):
right.
When this shows up, this isgoing to point you in the right
direction, right, and decisionpoints along the way.
So I'm helping them identifythese milestones towards
whatever it is that they want todo transition from being a
realtor into being amotivational speaker or whatever
and what are the things thathave to happen?
Well, in order to leave thatjob, you've got to be able to
replace that income.
What are we going to do toreplace that income?
What's that look like?
(42:12):
What's the business model forthat?
How do we find the customersfor that?
I'm helping them map out allthose details so that they can
then go back to their team or sothat they can then implement
for themselves.
Okay, step one is this so,while it's not a blueprint, it
is reasonable, doable,understandable, meaningful and
believable action steps for themor their organizations to begin
(42:36):
to implement on so that thewheels can turn and move them to
where they want to be.
So no, I don't do anything.
I just show them how to havethat strategy and that capacity
that works for them uniquely sothat they can move into that
role.
Because I got to tell you, and Iprobably don't even need to
tell you, when you're acelebrity in your niche, in your
little corner of the world,people come find you, people
(42:59):
want you in, they want to be inyour world, right?
Like they want to glom on, theywant to be able to tout oh, I've
got Angie on my event coming upon my stage.
Like you know, they want that.
When you're languishing inobscurity, it's such a slog.
Marketing is so hard.
Reaching your audience is evenharder, but when you're the
(43:21):
celebrity, when you're the go-toperson, everybody knows your
name.
It's like cheers, norm, likethey know who you are.
So for me, it's helping themand because everybody is
different, it looks different.
Like maybe you need some PR,maybe you need to get on
podcasts, maybe you need towrite a book, maybe you just
need to connect with yournetwork more.
(43:41):
Right?
Like we look at the resourcesthat you have and we build a
plan that's built on what youalready got going for you, so
that we're not reinventing thewheel and we're not making it
extra work for you and making itharder than it has to be.
Angie Colee (43:55):
Oh, I love that it reminds me of.
I was at a presentationrecently where somebody was
talking about this like brandingand positioning right and
starting to reverse that leadflow to where people are seeking
you out, and the example youused was like well, you could,
you could hire rihanna to comespeak at your event or sing at
your events.
It's 250 000 I can't rememberif it was per hour or for the
(44:18):
appearance itself.
And he just asked and I knewthe answer right away it's like
so why does Rihanna charge thatmuch?
And I was like because she'sfucking Rihanna and she can like
and people will pay it becauseshe's freaking Rihanna and that
makes it so much easier, likewhen you're not out here being a
vendor competing on price.
(44:40):
I know we're talking kind oflike business 101 here, but it's
so easy to fall back into thattrap when you've been a
solopreneur for a long time or asmall business for a long time
of like, oh, especially thisyear.
So we're recording in summer of2024.
It's been a weird year for mostfolks that I know between 2023
and 2024.
It's been a little bit harderto operate in the online
(45:01):
business space.
That doesn't mean it'simpossible, but there's a lot of
skepticism.
There's a lot of people thathave been burned by big name
coaches that didn't deliver.
So there's like a little bit ofan uphill.
Lisa Robbin Young (45:11):
There's a reckoning, and those big name
coaches are still raking inplenty of money because they're
the big name coaches, right?
Angie Colee (45:17):
Regardless of the result.
Lisa Robbin Young (45:18):
They are now the celebrity, and so people
continue to come knocking ontheir door.
They're the ones who get calledto be on Oprah's stage.
They're the ones who get insertgreat idea here, and they get
it first because they've got theaudience, they've got the reach
, they've got the namerecognition.
So why not develop that kind ofreputation for yourself?
(45:39):
That's what becoming thecelebrity in your niche is all
about.
I'm not.
Most of the people I'm workingwith do not want to be Beyonce.
They want to be the Beyonce ofwhatever they're up to right,
and that's.
It's a game changer, and I don'tuse that word.
I don't use that term veryoften at all, but it really does
change the way the game isplayed for you.
(45:59):
When people are coming to you,instead of you constantly having
to send out another pitch forthis thing and another thing for
that thing and anotherapplication over here, they just
send streamers going.
We would love for you to be onyour thing.
It becomes an opportunity toconsciously say no to a lot more
things.
So you can say yes to the gemsversus saying yes to everything
in the hopes that something youknow, that spray and pray.
(46:21):
Now you can be much morechoosing, much more discerning,
because everybody's trying tobeat a path to your door.
Angie Colee (46:28):
Okay, I got to ask is there any part of your
process with these people thatinvolves like picking your
favorite celebrity that you wantto emulate and like imagining
yourself as that?
Lisa Robbin Young (46:38):
I don't usually have that issue because
they've already decided for me,right?
They come saying I want to bethe Brene Brown, I want to be
the Sherlock Holmes, I want tobe the whoever it is, and it's
like cool.
What is it about that personthat sets you on fire to want to
be like them in your niche?
Well, you know, and a lot oftimes it's character traits and
personality.
It's also about audience reach,those kinds of things.
(47:00):
And so when you start toidentify, you know, for me it's
Queen Latifah, right, like sheis one of my brand ambassadors,
like in my heart, like there'sso much about Queen Latifah that
I can't say enough good thingsabout.
If you've not read her book Puton your Crown, you need to.
So much great insight andinformation in that book,
(47:23):
especially for somebody right,especially for somebody who's
trying to build a business.
Lots of lessons learned, andthis is not a relatively new
book either, but such a goodbook and it really changed how I
thought about being a woman,being a pioneer in my industry,
standing up for what wasimportant to me in my industry
(47:45):
and being that person willing toput a line in the sand.
So she's very much like I wantto be the Queen Latifah of my
industry.
So look to those people that youwant to be like why, what is it
about them and start to pickthat apart and then go, okay,
how can I start doing beinghaving that in my business now,
(48:09):
right, because that's really allI do, like there's my secret
sauce.
I just pick all that stuffapart and go, okay, well, let's
start where we're at.
And how can we iterate on thatover the next year, two years,
three years, five years, untilwe get to where you want to be?
And I got to be honest, right.
(48:29):
Sometimes it's going to takeyears to get you there,
depending on where you'restarting from or depending on
how many resources you have.
And I tell people right upfront, like, if you want me to
solve your problem in six weeks,I'm not your Huckleberry,
because that's probably notgoing to do you any service.
Sometimes we can do that with abusiness model tweak or
something, but if you're arelative unknown today, you're
not going to be an overnightsensation tomorrow.
(48:50):
It's going to take some time.
You've got to put some thingsin place so that you build that
reputation of excellence thatpeople start to talk about and
rave about and share with theirfriends, right?
So I'm not a miracle worker,but we can do some pretty
amazing things if you're willingto step up to the plate and be
honest about where you're at,what you need and where you want
(49:11):
to go.
Angie Colee (49:12):
Oh, I love that.
Yeah, and to circle back toclarify for anybody that was
listening to the audio anddoesn't happen to watch the
video the reason I cackled inthe middle of Lisa talking how
wonderfully inspiring QueenLatifah is not because I found
that funny, because I actuallyhad a tiara sitting on the desk
next to me.
So when Lisa mentioned the nameof the book, I went and grabbed
(49:33):
my tiara and put it on and thenwe both just kind of like snort
, laughed a little bit.
Lisa Robbin Young (49:37):
My tiara and scepter are in the other room,
so otherwise I would have joinedyou.
I actually I have two.
Angie Colee (49:43):
I had that purple one.
I actually I have two.
I had that purple one, I havethis little pearly one too that
my niece picked out for me, but,like co-signing Queen Latifah,
she is definitely one of myheroes.
I haven't read the book.
I'm adding that to my list, butI do watch and it's so fucking
corny.
But I don't care if you like itor not or if you think I'm dumb
(50:10):
for it or not.
I watched Last Holiday.
At least once a year.
I love that movie.
I highly recommend it foranybody that's watching.
She plays a character who hasit's kind of like what we're
talking about on this show rightDone everything by the book,
everything that you're supposedto do.
Gets a life-changing diagnosis,decides screw it, I'm going to
blow every last cent.
I'm going to take the dreamtrip of a lifetime only to find
out.
Well, I'm not going to giveanything away.
Like dream trip of a lifetime,we're going to leave it there.
(50:31):
And everything changes when shedecides to fully live her life
instead of doing what she's toldand like that, just brings it
around so nicely to everythingthat we're talking about.
Oh, I want to keep ranting forlike two more hours, but we've
already hit time, so please tellus a little bit more about how
(50:51):
we can work with you on becomingcelebrities.
Lisa Robbin Young (50:54):
Oh well, firstly, you can find me just
about anywhere.
I'm at Lisa Robin Young on allthe socials.
Robin has two B's, though Ifyou don't use two Bs, you won't
find me.
My website's lisarobinyoungcom.
The one thing that I wouldinvite you to do is go to the
website, take the free quiz youdon't even need to opt in and
that will tell you where youfall on the creative
entrepreneur spectrum and giveyou a better idea about what
(51:17):
your strengths and challengesare as an entrepreneur in that
type, and then you can start tobuild your business more
successfully around what you dowell and learn how to relinquish
your Vulcan death grip ofcontrol around the things that
probably aren't in yourwheelhouse and still have
support in order to be able toget there.
Angie Colee (51:36):
Love that.
I love that.
I'm going to make sure thatthere are clickable links in the
show notes.
Thank you so much for beingsuch a wonderful guest.
I'm so glad that we made thishappen.
Lisa Robbin Young (51:44):
Me too.
Thanks for having me.
Angie Colee (51:49):
That's all for now.
If you want to keep thatkick-ass energy high, please
take a minute to share thisepisode with someone that might
need a high octane dose of youcan do it.
Don't forget to rate, reviewand subscribe to the Permission
to Kick Ass podcast on ApplePodcasts, spotify and wherever
you stream your podcasts.
I'm your host, angie Coley, andI'm here rooting for you.
Thanks for listening and let'sgo kick some ass.
Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass, the show
that gives you a virtual seatat the bar for the real
conversations that happenbetween entrepreneurs.
I'm interviewing all kinds ofbusiness owners, from those just
a few years into freelancing toCEOs helming nine-figure
companies.
If you've ever worried thateveryone else just seems to get
it and you're missing somethingor messing things up, this show
(00:24):
is for you.
I'm your host, angie Coley, andlet's get to it.
I'm so excited for this one Onebecause it has been a long time
coming For those of you thathave never run a podcast before.
Sometimes scheduling can be abitch, and it has been a bitch.
It has tried to keep us apart,but we are making it work and
(00:47):
love will keep us together.
Yes, all my musical people.
That makes me happy, and forboth of us, it's our last call
of the day, so we're ending on ahigh note, with the high energy
ready to bring it to you forpermission to kick ass.
So, yeah, there's my littleramble.
Love it.
Well, tell us a little bitabout what you do.
Lisa Robbin Young (01:06):
Well, right now, today, I like to have my
fingers in a lot of pies, whichis why I say it that way.
I'm a fusion creative, sofingers in lots of pies is kind
of how we operatemulti-passionate, et cetera, et
cetera.
So my primary objective rightnow is to help establish
(01:29):
micro-business owners,solopreneurs, become the
celebrity in their space.
I help them figure out the howof getting from where they are
now to that stage, thatspotlight, that presence in the
sun where people are chasingthem instead of them having to
chase other people.
That came out of decades ofwork that some of which I still
(01:54):
do, as a performing artist andauthor, as speaker myself.
So I am a creative entrepreneur.
I work with creativeentrepreneurs.
I've kind of built my wholebusiness around supporting
entrepreneurs with the can-doinspiration and the how-to
education of building aprofitable, sustainable business
, doing what they love thatworks for, how they're wired to
work, so that they can becomethat celebrity in their space.
Angie Colee (02:18):
Oh, I love that and works for how they're wired to
work.
I know that we've had thatconversation on calls before
about how and I honestly thinkthat I attract ADHD people to
this podcast.
Any wonder, considering we takeevery shiny path that appears
before us.
But we were made for business,I'm convinced, because we can
(02:38):
hold the multitudes that wouldburn out your neurotypical brain
and pivot very fast.
So I love this.
Lisa Robbin Young (02:44):
Well, and actually gosh, probably 20 years
ago now I'm dating myself therewas a study that was done and
they were considering rebrandingADHD as latent entrepreneur
type, because so manyentrepreneurs were demonstrating
ADD or ADHD-like tendencies.
(03:05):
I don't have the link to thearticle anywhere near me anymore
, but when I saw that I was likeoh, it makes so much sense for
the reasons that you exactlydescribed.
It's like our brain can holdmultiple ideas at the same time
figure out how they synergize,how they do or don't work
together, whether it's worthpursuing or dropping, synergize
(03:25):
how they do or don't worktogether, whether it's worth
pursuing or dropping.
And if we drop it, we can justpick up and move on to the next
shiny object for lack of abetter word, but it's not always
a shiny object and if you'refusion creative, you can hold
multiple balls in the air at thesame time and still make
progress on them, versus gettingdistracted from one project to
the next, if that makes sense.
Angie Colee (03:46):
Oh, I like that.
I'm writing fusion creativedown because I want to circle
back to that.
But I totally agree with you.
My totally uneducated not apsychologist or any kind of
schooling in psychologyhypothesis is that eventually
this is going to be stripped asa disorder and it's just going
to become like a certainpercentage of the population
(04:06):
works this way, certain percentof the population works that way
, and as we learn more, it'sjust going to be more normalized
.
Lisa Robbin Young (04:13):
Well, as much as I would love to agree with
you, I think once it's in theDSM, it's always in the DSM.
It's really hard to get adiagnosis out of the manuals.
But I agree with you.
I think the normalization of itis going to become much more
blatant and obvious, as we'venoticed with a lot of things
(04:33):
that were taboo conversations orthings that we just didn't talk
about in the past 50, 60, 100years.
The light is being shined onthose corners now and it's like,
well, yeah, disabilities justmean you're differently abled,
it doesn't mean there's anythingwrong with you and et cetera,
et cetera.
Right, lots of different thingsthat once were seen as we don't
(04:56):
talk about, that are now comingto light, as this is just part
of the human experience y'allGet with the program.
Angie Colee (05:03):
Mm-hmm, and it's okay, and it doesn't really make
that much of a difference toacknowledge that we've got the
differences.
It still works.
It's fantastic, right.
I want to circle back to thisfusion creative thing, because
that's the first time I've heardthat used and it instantly made
me curious.
I need to know more.
Lisa Robbin Young (05:25):
So the reason you've probably never heard it
before is because it's a termthat I coined when I identified
what I call the creativeentrepreneur type spectrum.
So years ago, before I wrote mylast book, I was in a crisis in
my business, trying to figureout who my right audience was.
What was I really here to do?
Because I had done so manythings, I just couldn't see the
(05:46):
path forward.
And so I sat down with a pileof sticky notes and I started
writing down the client that Iworked with and what we worked
on.
And I had all of these stickynotes laying all over and I
started to try and find thepatterns.
You know, oh, these guys areall kind of the same.
I'm going to put them over here.
And so are these guys, I'mgoing to put them over there.
My kid thought I was doing somekind of crazy craft project
(06:07):
with sticky notes, and I'm likeno, I'm working, I'm working
here.
And so I ended up having tworelatively solid piles.
But then I had this handful ofstragglers that didn't really
fit in either pile and I waslike I feel like I'm one of
those stragglers, like I don'treally belong in either pile,
(06:27):
and that's when I started to getclarity that it wasn't two
camps, it was a spectrum.
So we have this spectrum ofcreativity and I like to say
everyone is creative andentrepreneurs are creative, but
not all creatives areentrepreneurs.
And so when we look at thisspectrum of creative
(06:48):
entrepreneurship, we have what Icall, on one end, the chaotic
creatives, and that's not apejorative term at all, it
simply means the way your brainis wired.
It's more about theexperiential nature of what
you're bringing to the world.
Go with the flow, trust yourgut, honor your instincts,
channel it from the divine.
(07:09):
And these are the people thatwe typically classify as
creative folks.
They're usually artists,musicians, writers, those kinds
of folks.
On the other end of the spectrum, we have the linear creatives.
For these folks, other end ofthe spectrum, we have the linear
creatives.
For these folks, order is therule of the day Systems,
(07:30):
processes, checklists,everything's got a place and
everything's in its place,deadlines are met, there's no
deviation.
But then for folks like mefusion creatives we stand in the
middle with one foot in eachworld.
We can speak both languageswith relative ease.
We love and hate both ends ofthis spectrum, depending on the
(07:53):
day.
We can't stay in one camp fortoo long.
If I stay in that linear modefor too long, I start to feel
imprisoned and trapped becausethat's my chaotic cycle going on
.
This is too much structure.
But if I spend all my day inthe chaotic realm all the time,
then my linear side is like weneed to put some roots down, we
(08:15):
need to get grounded.
I'm a kite without a string.
There's no structure here.
So fusion creatives kind ofstand in the middle between
these two worlds so that we cannavigate it, and that's part of
why we're kind of that jack ofall trades.
But our biggest challenge thenis asking for help, because
while I'm so good at all theseother things, I should just be
able to do them.
And it's faster if I just do itmyself, which is true to a
(08:39):
point.
But at some point, if you'restill doing everything yourself,
you're left holding all thethings.
So you have to get good atempowering and delegating to
your team so that they cansupport you to show up and be
the talent that you are, becausethere is nobody else that has
the same combination of skillsets that you have and it's
important for you to lean intoboth.
(09:00):
And so for linears, we wantthem to lean into systems and
processes because typically thatgets you to financial success
more quickly.
But without any type of userexperience for what it is that
you offer, you won't get thosecustomers and keep them.
On the other hand, chaotics cantend to have champagne wishes
(09:23):
and Kool-Aid money.
On the other hand, chaotics cantend to have champagne wishes
and Kool-Aid money and they wanteverything to look and feel a
certain way and it has tomeasure up to this standard of
excellence where it's crap andI'm not going to ship it and for
them they need to understand.
Hey, we start here and then weiterate, right, yes, I get, you
want that Lamborghini experience, but today we got to start at a
(09:43):
Yugo because that's whereyou're at, that's where your
budget's at right.
Like we can stretch that, butwe can't.
We can't get blood out of astone, right?
And when I talk about money Italk about I really talk about
all the resources time, energy,money, effort and attention.
Because when we talk about thereturn on resources versus the
return on investment, then it'snot just money, especially for
(10:05):
early stage entrepreneurs, wheremoney is usually tight anyways.
It's about what are theresources that we have and how
do we put those to best use,again, in the ways that work for
how you're wired to work.
Angie Colee (10:15):
I love that.
Okay, first of all, severalthings as I was taking notes.
One I have never heard somebodyso clearly articulate what it's
like to be inside my headbefore.
I feel like you get me on adeep spiritual level, because I
definitely resonated with thefusion creative.
And if I spend too much time oneither side, I start to get a
little Absolutely, Absolutely.
(10:38):
And I also You're the onlyother person that I've really
heard talk about this likereturn on investment.
We can get so hooked on that inbusiness and I understand that
it's important to measure thesethings.
And also, sometimes you have toget resourceful.
Sometimes you have to get superscrappy and super creative and
make it work when the money isnot there to invest or you've
(10:59):
only got time to invest.
So I love that we're talkingabout that, the resources, what
we can do to get into actioneven when the money is not there
.
It's fantastic.
Lisa Robbin Young (11:09):
Yeah, yeah, when I was single-momming it, uh
, two or something years ago.
Uh, you, you only have so muchtime, so much energy, so much
ability, so many spoons forthose of you who are familiar
with spoon theory and you can'tput them everywhere.
So you have to be very judiciousand intentional on where can I
(11:33):
put this that's going to give methe best possible return,
because once it's out there,it's gone.
I don't get that time back, Idon't get that energy back, I
don't get those moments withoutmy kids back.
So, if I'm going to put it outthere, not to obsess over making
the perfect choice, but what'sthe best possible choice that I
(11:53):
can make with the informationthat I've been getting, to move
the needle as far as I can, oneof the things I tell my clients
all the time is do what you canas you are able, and some days
you're going to be more ablethan others, and we have to
acknowledge that our capacitychanges, and that's true of
normative body types just aswell as it is anybody with a
neurodivergence or a disabilityor aging parents that they're
(12:17):
caring for.
Our containers can only hold somuch, and when it's full, it's
full, and when it's empty, it'sempty and we have to be
realistic about that, regardlessof what kind of a business
we're trying to build.
Angie Colee (12:29):
Oh, I love that and I love that you took the time
to specify, because we talk alot about neurodiversity and
capabilities and abilities andcapacity a lot on this show, but
I think it's important to pointthat out for everybody.
This is a universal principlewhat you can give today is not
the same as what you can givetomorrow is not the same as what
(12:49):
you can give on your best dayor your worst day or a day that
you're sick, and we've got tostop putting this pressure on
ourselves to show upconsistently from day to day to
constantly be outputting at thesame level.
Like I mentioned it a littlebit before our well, maybe I
didn't mention it before we wererecording.
I'm operating on very littlesleep today, but I was like shit
(13:11):
is going to happen.
Lisa and I are going to talk.
That is the end of it.
Last night, both of my catsdecided to conspire against me
and when one was up and wakingme up, the other was down and
vice versa, and they did thatstarting at 3.30 this morning.
And so we're here today justdoing as much quiet work as we
can, with a little bit ofnappage and a lot of outreach.
(13:31):
So I can wait for those repliesto come in later.
This is the day for me to justfocus on quiet stuff, on
thinking stuff and taking iteasy, instead of like, oh my God
, I got to pitch this, I got todo that.
Lisa Robbin Young (13:43):
Knock it all off Absolutely.
It's really important for us torecognize that.
I equate it to like yourcheckbook right Today, you may
have $10,000 in the bank.
Tomorrow, you may have $2 inthe bank.
Well, you can't spend $10,000on a day when you only have two.
They have $2 in the bank.
Well, you can't spend $10,000on a day when you only have two,
and you have to be honest aboutthat.
(14:07):
The challenge that we have asindividuals and corporately, as
a society, is we've got this bigoverarching oppressor called
capitalism that's pushing downon us, saying we need to produce
an output in order to beconsidered valuable, useful
contributors to society, andwe've taken that to mean we have
to be making money.
There are lots of ways tocontribute, and many of them
(14:30):
don't seem to come with the sameprice tag or value attached to
them as others.
I was listening this morning toNPR and they were talking about
a baseball player who's getting$70 million a year for the next
10 years, and I'm like $700million could go a long way
towards helping a lot of peopledo a lot of things and by that
(14:50):
standard, he's well worth theinvestment that the team is
making into his performance.
So, yes, there is that.
But you said something elsethat I want to go back to the
idea of consistency, right, andI think some of us have this
idea that consistency andfrequency are the same thing.
To show up consistently, I gotto be in the same place every
day, beating the same drum of mymarketing message, so that
(15:13):
everybody knows who I am andwhat I'm hearing.
All of that Consistency andfrequency are not the same thing
.
Consistency is about thequality of what you're doing.
When you see and I'm just goingto use McDonald's when you see
McDonald's branding in the wild,you know it's McDonald's
because it looks the sameeverywhere.
(15:33):
That's consistency.
It's not about there's aMcDonald's on every street
corner.
There might be, but that'sfrequency.
Every day, every other day,every 10.
There might be, but that'sfrequency.
Every day, every other day,every 10 blocks, every two miles
that's frequency.
Consistency means when I showup, you know it's me.
I'm sharing a message that'sfamiliar or resonates with my
(15:56):
right audience.
I'm not here to talk toeverybody.
I'm here to talk to thosepeople and the message that I'm
sending to talk to those people.
And the message that I'msending to those people is
something that's becoming morefamiliar to them as they hear it
over time.
Now that can be frequent, butit doesn't have to be.
In my early years as a businesscoach, I talked about building a
noble empire and living aninspired life.
(16:17):
I don't use the term empirenearly as much now because I was
trying to distinguish the nobleempire from the evil empire,
and my Star Wars fans understood.
But now there's so much talkabout colonialism and patriarchy
that that word has a wholedifferent level of baggage on it
.
So over time I've changed thatlanguage to owning your dreams
(16:41):
without selling your soul.
Same concept, different words,familiar message coming from
somebody who you've gotten toknow over the years and years.
I'm not all of a sudden sayingtuna fish sandwiches are great.
That's completely differentmessage than what I've been
talking about for the last 30years in the online world.
So consistency is about showingup in ways that are recognizable
(17:04):
to your right audience andbecoming more familiar so that
they're like ah yes, if yourquality suddenly changes, that's
not consistent.
Even if you're going from mehto wow, that's not consistent.
Now you have to build a newconsistency flow with this new
level.
You know, every time you levelup people who've known you as
(17:25):
one thing for a while.
They kind of can freak out.
Sometimes they're like oh,sometimes they love it in a
brief, right away.
Other times they may be takenaback and they have to make a
decision.
Do I want to continue ridingthis trainer, or is this my stop
and my time to get off Right?
And we have to let people dothat.
You know, not everybody's goingto come along with you for the
entire ride, and that's okay.
(17:45):
They're there for as long asthey need to be, just like
you're there for as long as youneed to be, and then you move on
to the next thing.
That's part of how we evolve.
Angie Colee (17:53):
Oh, I love that distinction too, especially like
the hop on, hop off.
So often it's easy, especiallythe micro business, as you
mentioned.
Solopreneurs, like so much ofourselves, go into building this
thing to servicing the clients,to doing whatever we're doing.
It's hard not to take thatpersonally.
When somebody wants to get offthe train right, like did I do
something wrong?
Was I not helping?
Maybe it's just their stuff.
(18:15):
Like, maybe you actually justsolved the problem and you did
such a kick ass job, but theydon't need any help anymore.
And now it's on to solve thenext problem.
Those things could all be true,and I also loved the
distinction that you made.
I thought this was so brilliantthat the time put in
inconsistency.
That's something that I hear alot lately with especially
people in some of the copywritergroups that I've hung out in
(18:37):
online being like I can't go forthat role, I can't pitch for
this thing, because they requirea certain amount of experience,
and usually when they sayamount of experience, they're
thinking in terms of years.
I've been in this game for fiveyears and I'm like but did you
really put in five years worthof work, did you really?
And same thing I've been in thegame for 14 years as a marketer
(19:01):
and as a creative.
Did I really put in 14 years ofwork?
No, there were definitely days,even in the corporate office as
a full-time paid creative, thatI was like I did my 90 minutes
of work for the day and the restof the day is just goofing off
and surfing the internet andgoing to the break room Mailing
it in.
Yeah, like but that countstoward my years of experience
Like we have this weird tie tolike the time that we had our
(19:23):
butt in a chair to our value,and I'm like exactly what you
said it's the quality, it's notthe time.
We've got to get that straight.
Lisa Robbin Young (19:32):
I've seen people fresh out of school who
are so innovative and sothoughtful in their approach to
the work that they're doing thatthey perform circles around
somebody who's been at it for 30years.
Yes, and it's as much as wewant to live in a meritocracy.
It's those kinds of folks thatboth terrify me and get me
(19:55):
really excited.
Terrify me because obviouslythey're raising the bar for
everyone and sometimes we're notup for the challenge.
Sometimes we're like can't wejust keep things easy for a
little while?
Cause it has been as a Gen Xer.
It has been a long, winding,stressful road and I would just
like to take a nap and have acookie right now.
(20:17):
And you know, here comes this 20something arts upstart.
I mean, my kid, my oldest, ispushing 30.
And I'm like please do notcompare yourself to the Mark
Zuckerbergs of the world.
By the time he was 30, he had abillion dollar business and and
and and like if you try tomeasure yourself by that
yardstick, you're going to feellike a failure every day of your
(20:38):
life.
Instead, look at where you'vebeen and how far you've come and
recognize and this is somethingI tell my clients all the time
too success is a destination andyou're already there.
Take a look around you.
This is success today, based onwhere you've been in the past.
Every decision, every choicethat you've made, everything
(20:58):
that you've said you're going todo and not do, has all led you
to this moment, right here, andthis is success for you.
And if you don't like what yousee, if it doesn't feel
successful for you, then you getto make some different choices
so that tomorrow's success canlook differently.
Angie Colee (21:13):
Ooh, I'm just going to like let that sit first.
That was like a mic drop moment.
I'm not going to drop themicrophone because this shit's
expensive, but we're going tohave a mic drop moment.
Right, that is so great topoint out.
You don't have any otherdestination aside from your own.
You don't have any timelineaside from your own.
If you want to move faster, youget to move faster.
(21:33):
If you want to slow it on down,you get to slow it on down.
These are all choices that haveto come from you, not from
society outside you.
And you're not a failure, and Ilove that reframe of putting it
back on how far we've come andthat we are a success right now
Because, as you were saying that, I was suddenly picturing me
bored to tears in my corporateoffice thinking about what's
(21:55):
next.
She couldn't imagine thishosting a podcast.
Having written a book, shecould not picture this because
all she knew was what she got toat that point.
So this is success, even ifit's not entirely where I want
to be, but I'm never entirelywhere I want to be because it's
a journey.
Lisa Robbin Young (22:13):
Well, and we're always moving the
goalposts.
I mean that success kind of Idon't want to say demands, but
success demands that we continueto move the goalposts.
We have to get to a point wherewe're like you know what, this
is enough.
And for most of us, especiallyambitious entrepreneurs, we're
always going to be moving thatgoalpost a little bit.
But the more important questionis are we moving that goalpost
because it inspires us orbecause we feel compelled to,
(22:36):
because that's what society saysis right?
That's what we should be doing?
Are we shooting on ourselves orare we really recognizing that?
No, this is the right next stepfor me, and we need to be
mindful of that.
We need to really think aboutthat in the picture, the bigger
scope of what we're doing.
I did a TED Talk a couple ofyears ago about this.
Quest for growth for growth'ssake is not sustainable.
(22:59):
Like as a planet, we can't justcontain and sustain perpetual
growth.
Instead, we need to be movingtowards whatever enoughness
looks like for us, and maybetoday that is a nap in a cookie,
and maybe tomorrow it'slaunching a new program, or
maybe the next day it's being onAngie's podcast and we are the
(23:21):
success today that our pastselves only dreamed of.
So imagine what our future selfis like to us now, like that's
where we're headed.
Angie Colee (23:31):
Ooh, I like that so , so much.
And I feel that forward drive Ithink a lot of entrepreneurs do
and that pressure to be fasteror better or like comparison to
peers and colleagues and whatnot, and I think it clicked for me
one day.
It literally was just anepiphany, a thought that popped
in my head when it was like,okay, I'm looking ahead of me,
(23:54):
at the people that I aspire tobe like, the people who inspire
me, who push me to be better andto always strive right, and I
forget that behind me there arepeople looking at me like that
that are admiring exactly whereI am.
When I'm not feeling like I'menough right, when I'm feeling
(24:14):
like I still have so far to go,they're looking at where I am
and going I have so far to catchup with her.
There's always somebody aheadwith her.
Like there's always somebodyahead of you, there's always
somebody behind you, and I don'tmean that in like a judgy
better than less.
No, absolutely not, absolutelynot.
Lisa Robbin Young (24:28):
yeah, so maybe 10-15 years ago, I was in
a class designed for musiciansto help them build their careers
and their trajectories, and Igot the best piece of advice
from the instructor that Iprobably ever gotten when we
talk about careers, don't lookat that person that you aspire
(24:48):
to be right now.
Look at what they were doingwhen they were at where you are
right now.
Right.
So if you're in the earlystages of your career, look at
what they were doing in theearly stages of your career.
Look at what they were doing inthe early stages of their
career.
You want to have a career likethe Beatles.
In the early years of theircareer, they were playing seven
nights a week in a dive bar inGermany.
(25:10):
Two shows a night, three showsa night.
Are you doing something likethat?
Well, if you are now, you canlook towards what the Beatles
were up to.
But if you're not, that's notan indication of oh my God, I
suck, I'm terrible.
And judging yourself, it's aquestion of am I willing to do
what they did to get to wherethey got?
And if not, what am I willingto do?
(25:30):
What do I have the capacity todo?
Because, look, if you've gottwo kids.
There's no way you're gonna beable to perform seven nights a
week, two or three shows a nightand have any kind of quality
time with your children.
It's just not feasible.
So what can you do?
Well, maybe I can do one show aweek.
Does that mean it's going totake me longer to get to Beatles
level status?
Probably, and are you okay withthat?
(25:52):
Like you have to make thosekinds of decisions from a place
of I am the business owner and Iget to decide what this is
going to look like, and I get todecide what I'm willing to
invest, what I'm willing tospend of my resources.
Right Again, resources, time,energy, money, effort and
attention.
It's not just about well, Ihave $12.
(26:13):
Where are you going to investthose resources to get the best
return on them possible for you?
And that's one of the thingsthat I love helping my clients
do.
Angie Colee (26:23):
Oh, that's so fantastic and that's such a good
point too, and that brings methat so nicely brings us back
around to the celebrity in yourniche.
But I wanted to make a pointreal quick too because, like we
briefly mentioned, that you andI are both musical people.
Right, I had a band for a longtime and people would always ask
me oh, what's the plan there?
Are you going to do an album?
I was like we all have likecareers and businesses.
(26:44):
We just want to make music andplay at dive bars a couple of
times a week and have a reallygood time.
I don't think anybody in thatband had delusions is the wrong
word but like a vision of, atthis age, we're going to hit the
road and I say that like.
(27:07):
So you bring the perspective ofhaving kids.
I have no kids and I still haveno desire to work.
Seven shows or seven nights aweek, two to three shows a night
Ooh, it's exhausting enough todo one day of podcast recording.
Lisa Robbin Young (27:13):
Right, right, exactly, and that's a
reflection of your capacity.
I mean, if Beyonce has gotenough minions that she can go
in the studio for 16 hours, noteat, not drink, not sleep, and
get her record done, that'sbecause she has all these other
resources to support her to beable to go do that.
So many times we look atBeyonce and go I could never do
(27:35):
that.
Well, if you had everything shehad, maybe you could, but you
don't.
So what are you going to dodifferently?
Right, and and being consciousof opportunity costs, right,
like, there is always atrade-off.
I have a you were talking aboutyour band.
I have a good friend who is asecurity guard with an amazing
(27:56):
voice, just killer vocals, andhe never wanted to become a
professional singer because hedidn't want to ruin the joy of
just being able to show up andsing.
If he gets paid occasionally,that's cool, but that's not why
he does it.
And we really have to get clearon what are our goals, what are
, what is our vision for ourlife, for our lifestyle, for our
livelihood?
(28:16):
And you know, whip out themagic paintbrush.
I do this to all my clients.
If you can paint the picture ofyour life and work to look and
feel and be exactly what youwant it to be what's in the
picture and you don't have tolet anything else into that
picture in your mind.
Now reality might play out alittle differently, but you
still get to make choices.
(28:37):
You know, one of the thingsthat you said earlier was about
you know you can go faster andsometimes we can't, and we have
to acknowledge that.
Sometimes we can't go fasterbecause we don't have the
resources to go faster.
So what can you do to supportyourself, financially or
otherwise, so that you canmaintain something?
Do what you can, as you areable, that's.
You know.
(28:58):
Plenty of stories abound offamous entrepreneurs who are in
their 60s, 70s, 80s and beyondwhen they finally had their
first big break.
Right, colonel Sanders, grandmaMoses, take your pick.
If it's worth pursuing, it'sworth pursuing for a lifetime.
Don't give up just because it'sgoing to take some time yeah,
(29:20):
and don't give up for somefucking bullshit.
Angie Colee (29:22):
Arbitrary number that, oh my god, came out of the
universe somehow, aka socialmedia.
So and so had their firstbillion by 20.
Yeah, most of the I know.
You know who I'm talking about.
That is not a self-madebillionaire, that is somebody
that came to the table with thecard stacked in their favor.
(29:42):
You know what I mean?
The resource is exactly like wetalked about.
Lisa Robbin Young (29:46):
And the reality is nobody is self-made
right.
Self-made implies completeself-sufficiency, complete
sovereignty and autonomy, withno help anywhere.
And I got to be blunt.
Every customer is a somebodyand they bought from you.
You're not self-made because itwas their purchase that enabled
you to be able to do the nextthing or iterate on the product
(30:09):
or whatever.
We are an ecosystem of buyersand sellers, of consumers and
makers, of creators andsustainers, and To pretend
otherwise discounts the verypeople who helped get you to
where you are, and I mean.
I understand the idea of beingself-made and pulling yourself
(30:30):
up by the bootstraps, but in itsoriginal intention, pulling
yourself up by the bootstrapswas an impossibility and meant
to be an insult.
I'm not interested in receivingand holding on to that anymore.
I used to wear it like a badgeof courage in my 20s, not
anymore, thanks.
If I'm bootstrapping, I'm doingsomething wrong.
I need to be in community withmy people to rise all the ships
(30:53):
on my tide.
Angie Colee (30:54):
Exactly.
Oh my gosh, my perspectivechanged so much when I realized
we're not all competing for aslice of the same pie, which
means most people aren't goingto get shit right.
We're all coming together withthe ingredients that we've got
and building an infinite pie.
I like all kinds of differentflavors, and some of it might be
pizza pie and some of it mightbe key lime pie, and like
(31:15):
everybody gets some, becausewe're all contributing and we're
all working together instead ofhoarding and there goes dreamy,
idealistic Angie, but that'sthe vision that I have.
Where we realize that, let meclimb up on my soapbox.
Where we realize that thepicture that we've been getting
is warped and skewed in favor ofthe people who have made a
(31:37):
kajillion dollars off the restof us, basically telling us oh,
you can have what I have too, ifonly you work hard enough, and
I have all the resources andsupport and connections that you
did.
Lisa Robbin Young (31:47):
Yes, yes, if I can do it, you can too, is
such a deceptive term becauseyou can't possibly know what
went on behind the scenes insomebody's life.
What kind of butterfly effectmay have had a hand in getting
them to where they are in thismoment.
Had Zuckerberg not gone toschool with those twins who had
(32:12):
the idea for Facebook in thefirst place, he never would have
had Facebook.
It would have been somethingelse.
You just don't know whatinfluence you have, or someone
else has, on the trajectory ofyour career, and you can't trust
that just because somebody elsemade six figures in six minutes
(32:33):
, that if you follow theirstep-by-step blueprint, you will
too, because you didn't have a$10,000 credit limit credit card
, like they did, to pay forFacebook ads.
Well, now what?
How am I supposed to do that?
You can't right.
Instead, it's aboutunderstanding the underlying
principles and going oh okay,they got successful because they
(32:53):
advertise.
What can I do that takesadvantage of that strategy, or
is that strategy even right forme in the first place?
And if it's not, what otherstrategy would produce a
comparable result?
And how do we implement thatinto my business?
Angie Colee (33:07):
Yes, I love that, and I think that's getting to
kind of the crux of the matterand I've coached people and I've
had to be coached on thisbefore too of like believing
that there's some sort ofblueprint.
If only I can just sit down andthink hard enough and come up
with the exact step-by-step planand the backup plan and the
backup backup plan and thebackup to the backup backup plan
(33:28):
.
Then I will follow all of thesteps, there will be no
stumbling, and I will get tothat finish line and make it
Trademark.
That's not the way it works,though.
Lisa Robbin Young (33:41):
Yeah, I mean there are just too many unknown
quantities between here andthere, and when I'm working with
a client and I'm like, okay, sothis is your success map, right
, like this is the stage yousaid you wanted to get on.
These are the milestones thatyou can expect to go through
before that's gonna become anopportunity that you can have
Now.
(34:01):
When will that happen?
Good question.
How will that happen?
Good question.
How will that happen?
Even better question.
But what you want to look foris when these things start
showing up on your radar, thenit's time to start moving into
the next milestone.
And when those things arestarting to happen, now it's
time to move to the nextmilestone and then you can
reasonably have a reasonablesense that this is a likelihood
(34:22):
now, not an improbability, right, and the closer you move and
keep moving towards that goal.
So it's not a cookie cutterblueprint.
I think you can develop aroadmap to help move you in the
right direction.
But detours happen all the timeand you have to be prepared for
what do I do if there's adetour?
What do I do?
When I was 10 years old, I wantto be a rock star.
(34:44):
I knew that was what I wasgoing to do with my whole life.
I went to school, got a degreein music, you know, I took
business classes so that Ididn't end up getting taken by
my manager Like I did all ofthat.
And then I was like, oh hey,let's have a child, let's get
married, let's have plan.
Those were not on my bingo card.
And in the course of that I gotreally clear that the things I
(35:08):
liked about being a rock starwere being able to perform,
being in front of an audience,having a spotlight and making
people feel good aboutthemselves.
And I'm like you know what?
I can do all of that myself.
This way, instead of waitingfor somebody to discover me and
put me on tour, I can record myown albums, I can write my own
(35:28):
books, I can put those out intothe world, I can tour as much or
as little as I want to on myown and I can share my stories
and inspire my audience withouthaving to wait to be picked.
If I had waited to be picked, Iwould still be waiting, because
(35:49):
I don't have the quote-un looksor the quote unquote classic,
whatever's that they're lookingto to spend millions of dollars
on and put on tour.
But I can still be successfulin my own way, the way I want to
, with way more sovereigntydoing it this way.
So you have to get really clearon what is it that you really
want about that goal.
One of the things I say all thetime is your goal is not always
(36:10):
the goal.
We go through life with a veryparochial, limited view of
things and all we can see iswhat's in front of us until we
take a step, and usually it's agoal that acts as a catalyst to
get us moving towards it.
So then we step out and, oh mygosh, now I can see these other
possibilities and oh, I thinkthat's more important.
Now I'm going to go in thatdirection, which is great.
(36:33):
That doesn't mean that the goalyou had set for yourself that
you didn't achieve makes you afailure, because the goal did
its job.
It got you off the stick, itgot you to move so that you
could see the next thing and go,take that step in that
direction.
Angie Colee (36:45):
Yes, that is such a critical distinction.
Just because you moved towardthe goal and then the goal
changed doesn't make you bad orwrong, doesn't mean your first
goal was off track, doesn't meanthat you're wishy-washy or
anything like that.
You can't get this contextuntil you are moving forward and
you can see more than you canfrom your current vantage point.
And I think all of this bringsus around nicely to this idea of
(37:09):
celebrity that you talked about.
We're circling all the way backto the beginning.
I want to know more about that,and you don't have to give away
your secret sauce, unless youwant to share your secret sauce,
like this idea of becomingcelebrity, like with everything
that we've just talked about,with resources and time and
things like that.
How is it that you're able tomake this happen with people who
(37:30):
are micro businesses andsolopreneurs?
Lisa Robbin Young (37:32):
Well, let's be really clear.
I don't make anything happen.
What I do is show them the how,because so many times people
are like I don't know how, Iknow what I want and I can't
tell you how many times peoplehave come to me and said I want
to be the insert celebrity hereof my niche the Bernie Brown of
my industry, the Dr Ruth of myindustry, the Sherlock Holmes of
(37:53):
my industry and it's like, okay.
So I've spent the last severalyears since my last book
figuring out what are theelements that distinguish a
celebrity from everybody else.
Great example what makesBeyonce, beyonce and Solange
Solange?
They are sisters, they grew upin the same house.
(38:13):
They both have great voices.
Why did Beyonce rise to thelevel of stardom that she did
and Solange didn't?
Or any of the other members ofDestiny's Child, for that matter
.
All great singers, not aBeyonce.
What set them apart?
And so I discovered these,discovered.
I uncovered, identified thesenine different elements that
(38:35):
basically come down to clarity,confidence and courage.
You've got to have crystalclarity on different aspects of
who you are, what matters to youand what you're about in the
world.
That gives you the ability tomake more confident decisions
about what you're going to dowhat you're not going to do,
what you're going to toleratewhat you're not going to
tolerate, and that then allowsyou to take courageous action.
(38:57):
Courageous action, not massiveaction which we hear so much in
the you know internet self-helpwoo-woo circles.
It doesn't always happen.
Sometimes the most courageousaction you can take is to be
still and do nothing, and that'sreally hard and it's not big,
but it's big for you, right?
So we're talking aboutcourageous actions to change
(39:20):
course when things aren'tworking.
I talk about Katy Perry quite abit.
She was a Christian musicartist and she was not getting
traction.
Yeah, I know Most people go.
She was what she was aChristian artist.
Taylor Swift was in country andshe was like let's go do pop.
And now she's a billionaire.
Right Like, we have to decidefor ourselves that sometimes and
I'm gonna misquote andslaughter Marilyn Monroe's idea
(39:43):
here Sometimes, good and I'mgoing to misquote and slaughter
Marilyn Monroe's idea heresometimes good things have to
fall apart so the better thingscan fall together.
Right Like, we have to bewilling to let go of the good
for the great, and so many of usare so risk averse that it's
hard to do that.
Right, and understandably so inthis capitalist society in
which we live, and so being ableto make those confident
decisions and take thosecourageous actions distinguish
(40:04):
people.
And so when I'm sitting downwith somebody who wants to be
that person, you know they'vecome to me and they say you know
, I can't explain it.
I've known since I was a kidthat I'm supposed to be on stage
in front of millions of people,or hundreds of thousands of
people, or talking to the worldabout this message or this
mission or this vision that Ihave, but I don't know how to
get there.
Or but I'm afraid of andtypically it's around.
(40:27):
I don't want to cause harm orbe harmed.
I'm afraid that it's going tobe too much and that it's all
going to come collapsing downaround on my ears, or I just
don't know how to do it Like Ijust need somebody to show me
how.
So we sit down and we look atend to end, what's the context
of your life, what are thecapacity constraints that you
(40:48):
have, and then what are themilestones to get you from where
you are to where you want to be, and how do we navigate those
in ways that work for how you'rewired.
You know if you've got kids andthey're all under 10, that
looks different than somebodywho's single and unencumbered by
anything else in life, somebodywho has a lot of resources,
versus somebody who has verylittle resources.
(41:09):
I had a client recently who waslike I want to hit this income
goal and I want to do it in thenext six months because I want
to have a baby by the end of theyear.
And I'm like are you pregnantalready?
And she's like no, and I'm likethat has to happen in order to
have a baby by the end of theyear.
So maybe you want to bump thattimeline out a little bit,
because if you're pregnantduring the middle of this kind
of a launch, that could createsome other problems because
(41:30):
you've never been pregnantbefore and that's a huge
question mark.
And she's like I never evenconsidered that Right.
So I'm such an overthinker.
I can see all of thesedifferent possibilities and go,
okay, how's that going to impactyou?
And sometimes we don't have theanswer.
So it becomes a question mark.
When this shows up, we have tofigure out how to address that
(41:52):
right.
When this shows up, this isgoing to point you in the right
direction, right, and decisionpoints along the way.
So I'm helping them identifythese milestones towards
whatever it is that they want todo transition from being a
realtor into being amotivational speaker or whatever
and what are the things thathave to happen?
Well, in order to leave thatjob, you've got to be able to
replace that income.
What are we going to do toreplace that income?
What's that look like?
(42:12):
What's the business model forthat?
How do we find the customersfor that?
I'm helping them map out allthose details so that they can
then go back to their team or sothat they can then implement
for themselves.
Okay, step one is this so,while it's not a blueprint, it
is reasonable, doable,understandable, meaningful and
believable action steps for themor their organizations to begin
(42:36):
to implement on so that thewheels can turn and move them to
where they want to be.
So no, I don't do anything.
I just show them how to havethat strategy and that capacity
that works for them uniquely sothat they can move into that
role.
Because I got to tell you, and Iprobably don't even need to
tell you, when you're acelebrity in your niche, in your
little corner of the world,people come find you, people
(42:59):
want you in, they want to be inyour world, right?
Like they want to glom on, theywant to be able to tout oh, I've
got Angie on my event coming upon my stage.
Like you know, they want that.
When you're languishing inobscurity, it's such a slog.
Marketing is so hard.
Reaching your audience is evenharder, but when you're the
(43:21):
celebrity, when you're the go-toperson, everybody knows your
name.
It's like cheers, norm, likethey know who you are.
So for me, it's helping themand because everybody is
different, it looks different.
Like maybe you need some PR,maybe you need to get on
podcasts, maybe you need towrite a book, maybe you just
need to connect with yournetwork more.
(43:41):
Right?
Like we look at the resourcesthat you have and we build a
plan that's built on what youalready got going for you, so
that we're not reinventing thewheel and we're not making it
extra work for you and making itharder than it has to be.
Angie Colee (43:55):
Oh, I love that it reminds me of.
I was at a presentationrecently where somebody was
talking about this like brandingand positioning right and
starting to reverse that leadflow to where people are seeking
you out, and the example youused was like well, you could,
you could hire rihanna to comespeak at your event or sing at
your events.
It's 250 000 I can't rememberif it was per hour or for the
(44:18):
appearance itself.
And he just asked and I knewthe answer right away it's like
so why does Rihanna charge thatmuch?
And I was like because she'sfucking Rihanna and she can like
and people will pay it becauseshe's freaking Rihanna and that
makes it so much easier, likewhen you're not out here being a
vendor competing on price.
(44:40):
I know we're talking kind oflike business 101 here, but it's
so easy to fall back into thattrap when you've been a
solopreneur for a long time or asmall business for a long time
of like, oh, especially thisyear.
So we're recording in summer of2024.
It's been a weird year for mostfolks that I know between 2023
and 2024.
It's been a little bit harderto operate in the online
(45:01):
business space.
That doesn't mean it'simpossible, but there's a lot of
skepticism.
There's a lot of people thathave been burned by big name
coaches that didn't deliver.
So there's like a little bit ofan uphill.
Lisa Robbin Young (45:11):
There's a reckoning, and those big name
coaches are still raking inplenty of money because they're
the big name coaches, right?
Angie Colee (45:17):
Regardless of the result.
Lisa Robbin Young (45:18):
They are now the celebrity, and so people
continue to come knocking ontheir door.
They're the ones who get calledto be on Oprah's stage.
They're the ones who get insertgreat idea here, and they get
it first because they've got theaudience, they've got the reach
, they've got the namerecognition.
So why not develop that kind ofreputation for yourself?
(45:39):
That's what becoming thecelebrity in your niche is all
about.
I'm not.
Most of the people I'm workingwith do not want to be Beyonce.
They want to be the Beyonce ofwhatever they're up to right,
and that's.
It's a game changer, and I don'tuse that word.
I don't use that term veryoften at all, but it really does
change the way the game isplayed for you.
(45:59):
When people are coming to you,instead of you constantly having
to send out another pitch forthis thing and another thing for
that thing and anotherapplication over here, they just
send streamers going.
We would love for you to be onyour thing.
It becomes an opportunity toconsciously say no to a lot more
things.
So you can say yes to the gemsversus saying yes to everything
in the hopes that something youknow, that spray and pray.
(46:21):
Now you can be much morechoosing, much more discerning,
because everybody's trying tobeat a path to your door.
Angie Colee (46:28):
Okay, I got to ask is there any part of your
process with these people thatinvolves like picking your
favorite celebrity that you wantto emulate and like imagining
yourself as that?
Lisa Robbin Young (46:38):
I don't usually have that issue because
they've already decided for me,right?
They come saying I want to bethe Brene Brown, I want to be
the Sherlock Holmes, I want tobe the whoever it is, and it's
like cool.
What is it about that personthat sets you on fire to want to
be like them in your niche?
Well, you know, and a lot oftimes it's character traits and
personality.
It's also about audience reach,those kinds of things.
(47:00):
And so when you start toidentify, you know, for me it's
Queen Latifah, right, like sheis one of my brand ambassadors,
like in my heart, like there'sso much about Queen Latifah that
I can't say enough good thingsabout.
If you've not read her book Puton your Crown, you need to.
So much great insight andinformation in that book,
(47:23):
especially for somebody right,especially for somebody who's
trying to build a business.
Lots of lessons learned, andthis is not a relatively new
book either, but such a goodbook and it really changed how I
thought about being a woman,being a pioneer in my industry,
standing up for what wasimportant to me in my industry
(47:45):
and being that person willing toput a line in the sand.
So she's very much like I wantto be the Queen Latifah of my
industry.
So look to those people that youwant to be like why, what is it
about them and start to pickthat apart and then go, okay,
how can I start doing beinghaving that in my business now,
(48:09):
right, because that's really allI do, like there's my secret
sauce.
I just pick all that stuffapart and go, okay, well, let's
start where we're at.
And how can we iterate on thatover the next year, two years,
three years, five years, untilwe get to where you want to be?
And I got to be honest, right.
(48:29):
Sometimes it's going to takeyears to get you there,
depending on where you'restarting from or depending on
how many resources you have.
And I tell people right upfront, like, if you want me to
solve your problem in six weeks,I'm not your Huckleberry,
because that's probably notgoing to do you any service.
Sometimes we can do that with abusiness model tweak or
something, but if you're arelative unknown today, you're
not going to be an overnightsensation tomorrow.
(48:50):
It's going to take some time.
You've got to put some thingsin place so that you build that
reputation of excellence thatpeople start to talk about and
rave about and share with theirfriends, right?
So I'm not a miracle worker,but we can do some pretty
amazing things if you're willingto step up to the plate and be
honest about where you're at,what you need and where you want
(49:11):
to go.
Angie Colee (49:12):
Oh, I love that.
Yeah, and to circle back toclarify for anybody that was
listening to the audio anddoesn't happen to watch the
video the reason I cackled inthe middle of Lisa talking how
wonderfully inspiring QueenLatifah is not because I found
that funny, because I actuallyhad a tiara sitting on the desk
next to me.
So when Lisa mentioned the nameof the book, I went and grabbed
(49:33):
my tiara and put it on and thenwe both just kind of like snort
, laughed a little bit.
Lisa Robbin Young (49:37):
My tiara and scepter are in the other room,
so otherwise I would have joinedyou.
I actually I have two.
Angie Colee (49:43):
I had that purple one.
I actually I have two.
I had that purple one, I havethis little pearly one too that
my niece picked out for me, but,like co-signing Queen Latifah,
she is definitely one of myheroes.
I haven't read the book.
I'm adding that to my list, butI do watch and it's so fucking
corny.
But I don't care if you like itor not or if you think I'm dumb
(50:10):
for it or not.
I watched Last Holiday.
At least once a year.
I love that movie.
I highly recommend it foranybody that's watching.
She plays a character who hasit's kind of like what we're
talking about on this show rightDone everything by the book,
everything that you're supposedto do.
Gets a life-changing diagnosis,decides screw it, I'm going to
blow every last cent.
I'm going to take the dreamtrip of a lifetime only to find
out.
Well, I'm not going to giveanything away.
Like dream trip of a lifetime,we're going to leave it there.
(50:31):
And everything changes when shedecides to fully live her life
instead of doing what she's toldand like that, just brings it
around so nicely to everythingthat we're talking about.
Oh, I want to keep ranting forlike two more hours, but we've
already hit time, so please tellus a little bit more about how
(50:51):
we can work with you on becomingcelebrities.
Lisa Robbin Young (50:54):
Oh well, firstly, you can find me just
about anywhere.
I'm at Lisa Robin Young on allthe socials.
Robin has two B's, though Ifyou don't use two Bs, you won't
find me.
My website's lisarobinyoungcom.
The one thing that I wouldinvite you to do is go to the
website, take the free quiz youdon't even need to opt in and
that will tell you where youfall on the creative
entrepreneur spectrum and giveyou a better idea about what
(51:17):
your strengths and challengesare as an entrepreneur in that
type, and then you can start tobuild your business more
successfully around what you dowell and learn how to relinquish
your Vulcan death grip ofcontrol around the things that
probably aren't in yourwheelhouse and still have
support in order to be able toget there.
Angie Colee (51:36):
Love that.
I love that.
I'm going to make sure thatthere are clickable links in the
show notes.
Thank you so much for beingsuch a wonderful guest.
I'm so glad that we made thishappen.
Lisa Robbin Young (51:44):
Me too.
Thanks for having me.
Angie Colee (51:49):
That's all for now.
If you want to keep thatkick-ass energy high, please
take a minute to share thisepisode with someone that might
need a high octane dose of youcan do it.
Don't forget to rate, reviewand subscribe to the Permission
to Kick Ass podcast on ApplePodcasts, spotify and wherever
you stream your podcasts.
I'm your host, angie Coley, andI'm here rooting for you.
Thanks for listening and let'sgo kick some ass.
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