Today's guest is Linda Perry, and her story of transitioning from a high-powered legal career to following her true calling is both inspiring and refreshingly real. Spoiler alert: self discovery ain't all sunshine and rainbows, but that's kind of the whole point. We rapped about recognizing our ingrained thought patterns and why mindset work is never really done. Grab a glass of wine (or three) and get ready for a conversation that'll leave you pumped to kick some serious ass.
EDITED TO ADD: a note from Linda once I shared the live episode with her:
"The FUNNIEST part of this - 187 [Angie note: the number of this episode] in criminal defense terms is another way of saying a crime of murder. It’s the statute in California and is a common number for talking about a murder case. Lol."
Can't-Miss Moments:
- The surprising reason new habits and routines might not be sticking (hint: how you're thinking about them makes a huge difference)...
- Spoiler alert: much like house and car maintenance, mindset isn't a "one and done" fix. Linda has some insights on how to make it part of your regular practice...
- Talking to myself is... normal? Linda and I have a fascinating conversation about casually chatting with the voices in our heads (it's probably not what you're thinking)...
- Saber-toothed tigers vs. cyber-toothed tigers: Linda breaks down her simple mindset shift for combatting fear when it's got you paralyzed in place...
- The worst question you can ask yourself if you want to solve problems (and what to ask instead in order to actually fix things)...
Linda's bio:
Linda Perry is a mindset coach & business strategist who works with individuals, business owners and their teams become more self-driven and move toward 7-figure success. So many people get stuck on a plateau and don’t know how to move forward, Linda uses a mindset first approach to support individuals and teams to tap into their core motivations, strengths and frees them from their blocks so they can soar past 7 figures.
She is also a recovering attorney & copywriter and uses her skills of persuasion to show business owners how to make the impact they desire. Linda works with clients through her private coaching, group courses and workshops. She is also the lead business instructor at Levin Life Coach Academy where she teaches new coaches how to build a thriving coaching practice.
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a few years into freelancing toCEOs helming nine-figure
companies.
If you've ever worried thateveryone else just seems to get
it and you're missing somethingor messing things up, this show
(00:24):
is for you.
I'm your host, Angie Coley, andlet's get to it.
Hey, and welcome back toPermission to Kick Ass.
With me today is my friend,Linda Perry, or Linda Peri, as I
like to say.
Hi, Linda.
Linda Perry (00:38):
Hello, thank you
for having me.
Angie Colee (00:44):
We're already
starting this call off in a
little bit of a ridiculous mood.
Okay, so, for anybody seeingthe clip, you get to see my
handy dandy little pre-flightchecklist, which always includes
step number nine confirm namepronunciation, because names are
important.
And then I'm looking at Lindagoing.
We're old friends, I've been onyour show, we've taught, we've
been on panels together Likewe've done all kinds of stuff.
Please tell me how to pronounceyour name, linde Pari.
Linda Perry (01:04):
It's the French
version.
We love it.
Angie Colee (01:07):
Fits in with the
new European destination.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour business and what you're up
to.
Linda Perry (01:13):
Simply put, I mean,
I'm a mindset coach and so I
work with individuals,businesses, business owners, and
really I always love to say I'mthere to remove the head trash
so that you can actually get tothose goals, whether it is goals
that are personal goals foryour business, goals for your
team.
I talk a lot about helpingbusinesses, individuals, teams,
(01:35):
become more self-driven.
All the head trash drive thebus and that, essentially, we
really want to come from a placethat's truly intentional, so we
can achieve all those greatthings that we see for ourselves
and for our businesses insideof us, and so my job is to help
you get there.
Angie Colee (01:55):
I like that.
Not letting it drive the bus.
And how often are we just kindof in autopilot mode with these
old wounds and stories andthoughts and, you know, mistaken
beliefs, assumptions, justdriving the bus straight off a
fricking cliff?
Linda Perry (02:12):
Yeah, like, and it
depends on how much work you've
done on yourself.
I suppose, like back in the daywhen I before I started this
work and when I was still alawyer, I mean there was no me
driving the bus.
It was all beliefs, it wasshoulds, it was have tos, it was
everything else but me drivingthe bus.
And so I think a lot of usspend a lot of time on autopilot
(02:33):
.
I think I even still catchmyself on autopilot going, whoa,
where'd that come from?
So I mean it's easy to getthere.
Angie Colee (02:40):
It really is.
I was just talking withsomebody yesterday about that
that one of the biggestbreakthroughs that I had in
working on my own mindset wasthat recognition counts.
And what I mean by that is, ifI've started to slip into an old
negative thought pattern, if Ihave woken up in an anxiety
spiral or something like that,recognizing that I'm there and
(03:01):
that's what's happening counts.
Because for perfectionist types, for overachiever types, hello.
We tend to go if I don't getthis perfect, then it doesn't
freaking count.
Recognition counts, becausethat's the first step to going
okay.
I see you, this is a pattern,this is a fear we've experienced
before.
What did we do last time?
(03:22):
You can start to get to whereyou're talking yourself out of
it or at least allowing it topass, instead of bottling it up.
Linda Perry (03:28):
Actually,
recognition counts way more than
we think.
So we were talking about thisin my group yesterday, because I
think we all have thesepatterns that become so
automatic, so ingrained, that wedon't even realize that it is a
pattern or that we have anycontrol over it.
So recognition, I mean, that'sreally what mindset work is.
(03:48):
It's about recognizing andshifting gears.
It's not about I'm going toforever get rid of my fears.
I'm going to forever get rid ofthinking I'm stupid.
I'm going to forever get rid ofall this shit.
Angie Colee (04:02):
Sorry but like
whatever you want on this.
Linda Perry (04:05):
Cool, but like it's
like we think that mindset
means, oh, none of this is goingto bother me.
No, no, it's really actuallyabout that.
Oh, look at that, how coolthat's showing up again.
Let me shift gears, let me stop, let me not follow that
behavior and actually choose theone that's in alignment with
where I want to go, and that'smindset work.
Angie Colee (04:25):
I love that
distinction, because there was
one woman that I worked withshout out to Dr Julie Helmrich
where I would ask her.
So I've talked about it on theshow before.
It's not a secret.
I have diagnosed severe ADHD,both inattentive and hyperactive
, and for me, hyperactivepresents well, you've probably
seen me in person.
I climb things and I also talkabout a mile a minute, hence why
(04:52):
I host a talk show.
But the result, end result ofthat is I don't create habits
the same way other people do.
Everything is something I haveto think about from, you know,
morning routine.
I don't really have a morningroutine.
Sometimes I even forget todrink coffee.
That's how weird it is.
And so she and I were working ona morning routine and I was
telling her why is this so hard?
I mean, I get that that we'reworking with my brain here and
my brain does what it's going todo.
(05:13):
We can only go so far as far asthat's concerned.
But she goes you are treatingthis like a what was the word
she used?
Like a project instead of aprocess, and I went that's
interesting, Tell me more.
And she goes yeah, a projecthas a start and an end.
It's kind of like running arace and crossing a finish line.
(05:34):
This isn't even a marathon.
It's continuing to run for therest of your life, and if you
think you've crossed the finishline, well then, yeah, I'm not
surprised.
That you're struggling Doesn'tmean you're bad.
It just means that you'rethinking about this like it is a
project with a start and an end, when it's really something
you're going to be doing for therest of your life.
Linda Perry (05:52):
Yeah, I think that
that's it's a great distinction,
and I think when you label it aprocess, something changes.
In other words, you allow datato come in and you allow
yourself to look at the data andyou go what do I have to learn
from this data?
And, okay, what do I need toshift?
Let's try that out and wait.
That's no longer working, andwho knows why it's not working,
(06:12):
or maybe I just need somethingdifferent, and so let's try
something different.
And I think process allows forexperimentation, which is huge
when it comes to growth andmindset and stepping out of
patterns, and so I love thatidea of process.
I was thinking about this.
You know, and I'm super, youknow, disciplined, and have
(06:33):
morning processes and you knowwhat They've changed over the
years and they change from timeto time and I've raised a son
who has ADHD and actually mydaughter does as well.
They have extreme processes,but they have to keep tweaking
and thinking and, because it'slife law, this isn't something
that's going to work.
Maybe it's going to stopworking, maybe it only works for
(06:54):
a while, but we have to be okaywith that.
And I think we're like, oh myGod, halt.
Nothing's working.
That's not true, it's just thatright now.
Maybe you need somethingdifferent.
Angie Colee (07:05):
That's so
interesting.
It's a parallel.
The idea that popped into myhead when I was listening to you
describe that is how often wecan get into a danger zone with
like even cars and houses.
Right, I fixed that problemalready.
Well, it's probably going toneed to be fixed multiple times
and maintained in between thefixes throughout the lifetime of
that thing.
It's the same with theseprocesses we create for
(07:26):
ourselves.
Linda Perry (07:27):
Yeah, and I think
we think, okay, I've been
through that before, I made thatmistake.
Why am I making it again?
I should be further, Ishouldn't have to be dealing
with this, I have to be better.
And the reality is we don'tactually recognize what better
looks like.
This, as we started to talkabout, isn't about getting rid
of something, it's like goinghey, this is happening, and the
(07:51):
time that I sit in the mistake,the inaction, the yuck, the
whatever it is, is shorter andthat's all that matters.
Right, like the whole point is,is crossing the bridge between
where we are and where we wantto go, and in order to get there
, sometimes it's just a matterof shortening the time that we
face the same challenge.
(08:12):
Right?
Oh, there's my stupid beliefholding me back again.
There is my you knowprocrastination or my
perfectionism showing up.
That's funny.
I know what tool now to use sothat I can actually cross that
bridge, and I think that'sthat's the trick.
Really, it's not about you know, I'm here on this planet to you
(08:32):
know, evolve into this perfectbeing.
No, I'm here to learn somelessons, obviously, and keep
evolving and actually growingtoward having that life that I
want.
That, I think, is the importantlesson.
Angie Colee (08:44):
I really I love
that takeaway and I remember
talking a while back with my dadabout something similar.
I am prone to these anxietyattacks Even when life is going
really, really well.
It just seems to be the waythat I'm wired and that's why
I'm so big on recognition andjust celebrating when you
recognize it.
So I've had issues where, likeif business was going slower,
(09:06):
I'm freaking out over something.
I'll wake up in the middle ofthe night already fully alert
and in the middle of an anxiouscycle.
Like my brain's been thinkingabout this in the sleep and now
we're awake and we're thinkingabout it, and one thing that has
really helped me is to sitthere and go okay, let's breathe
, let's bring the heart rateback down.
Okay, I hear you, brain, let'sbreathe, let's bring the heart
rate back down.
(09:26):
Okay, I hear you, brain, I hearyou.
What's going on?
We're worried.
Is this really helping rightnow?
Is waking up in the middle ofthe night, being stressed out
over something I can't doanything about right now, really
helping?
This can wait until morning.
A good night's rest is going tohelp us work on this in the
morning, whereas being sleepdeprived is not going to help at
all.
So like, how about we just puton a sleep story?
(09:48):
Yes, I talked to myself.
How about we do this?
How about we put on a sleepstory?
We breathe deep a little bitand we see if we can't get back
to sleep.
Linda Perry (09:55):
But what you're
doing is super important is.
You know, we had thisconversation also again
yesterday.
My group and we're talkingabout identity in this last
month and we all think we havethis one identity.
But what you've recognized isthat we all actually are made up
of parts.
I'm a huge fan of like internalfamily systems work where we
all are made up of differentparts that are again driving the
(10:17):
bus and depends on which youknow sort of young part of us is
in charge at the moment isreally where we're going.
But the thing is is is when wewake up, you know, and I'm not
really prone to anxiety, I havehigh anxiety.
I have.
It's how I'm wired.
My whole life I have had panicattacks.
It's really fun and super fun.
(10:37):
And what I recognize is is thatthere are some really young
parts that are still activatedat times.
And so having theseconversations with yourself,
recognizing that again, it's notnecessarily the self that's in
charge, but there's thatsubconscious processing of a
part of us that's very young,that is looking out for danger I
mean, we haven't evolved verymuch since caveman times.
(11:01):
We're still looking for likeeverything to kill us, basically
.
And so recognizing that anddoing that psychological
distancing actually helpsbecause what we recognize is
that, okay, I don't have tofollow that voice, I don't have
to actually live that voice.
Right now I can bring thetemperature down.
(11:23):
Most of us, especially those ofus who live in a dysregulated
state, need to do that moreoften.
So having conversations withyourself may sound silly, like I
encourage clients to have theirparts talk and they're like not
there yet.
And like I get it right.
Like it can seem weird to haveparts talk and it is a way to
get yourself back down so thatyou can be in charge.
(11:45):
So fear isn't the one that'sdriving the bus.
Self-doubt isn't driving thebus.
Like, if you follow that voice,you're more apt to make bad
choices around clients, you'remore apt to make bad choices
around the direction of yourbusiness.
You're more apt to make badchoices in your personal life,
like all of that.
And so I think what I thinktalking to yourself is really
(12:08):
healthy.
Angie Colee (12:09):
It's, it's made one
.
One thing that I wrote downwhile listening to all that is
that and this is the patternthat's been coming up over the
last week, especially with thepeople that I work with feelings
aren't facts, right, they'reindicators.
Something needs to be paidattention to, something,
something needs to be worked onright.
But it's not a fact, it's justa strong feeling, and you can
(12:30):
examine these things, and I'dnever articulated this to myself
before now.
So thank you for giving me thisopportunity.
I think the reason that I talkto myself like that in my head,
like all right, this is whatwe're going to do, is that it
allows me to go.
Okay.
So that is fear talking almostlike that that Pixar movie
inside out.
So fear's over here running herfricking mouth, and that is not
(12:54):
helping the situation right now.
Could we bring in some calmover here, like calm, let's,
let's, let's get this situationunder control.
You need to be driving the bus,that one needs to be over here,
I don't know looking for sabertooth tigers, because that'll
keep them occupied, and I thinkfor me that feels important
because I don't have to assumethat identity of fear.
(13:15):
I don't know if that even makesany sense outside of my head,
but like putting distancebetween me and that thing that
is fear inside my head.
Talking to me really helps.
Linda Perry (13:24):
Yeah, there's a
couple things I say about that,
because I spend a lot of timetalking about fear, because I
used to be driven by suchintense fear fear that somebody
would find out that I wasn't.
You know, as incredible as Iput out into the world, right
Like I wasn't perfect, that Iwasn't this facade or whatever
(13:45):
it was.
And you know, I stayed inrelationships that weren't good
for me, all this stuff, feardrove the bus, and so I had to
really learn how to make peacewith fear.
And I want to say two thingsthat stood out for me when you
were talking is is one, factsaren't facts sometimes.
Talking is is one facts aren'tfacts sometimes.
Fear has a really great way ofdisguising, you know, fiction
(14:13):
into fact, because fear willtell you well, look, you fell
yesterday and you fell the daybefore and you fell the week
before.
So that means you're going tofall tomorrow.
But fear has no crystal ball.
Fear cannot predict what willhappen tomorrow.
Fear, in fact, has no abilityto prove anything other than
show you what's happened in thepast.
And the truth is, is the pastis really no indicator of the
future?
We think it is and fear thinksit is.
So we tend to think thatwhatever fear is talking about
(14:37):
is actually factual.
So I often say facts aren'talways facts.
Now, fear is really interesting,because fear actually is.
We all want to push it away,shove it away, put it somewhere
in a corner.
However, what I have learned isis that when we start to have
conversations with fear, that wetreat it like an old friend, a
(14:57):
misguided, sweet old friend.
It quiets down.
I often will say when fear showsup ah, there you are, my old
friend, thank you for trying toprotect me, cause that's
actually the role of fear.
I mean, as you talked about, itwas like the saber tooth tigers
.
Well, now they're the cybertooth tigers, and so we're
always out looking for whatdanger there exists, right.
(15:19):
So I always say fear, thank you.
But I got this because fear isgenerally some really young part
of us that learn to cope withthe world by going danger,
danger, danger, and so for somethat's inaction, for some it's
hiding, For some it's overdoing,even right, like, oh my God, I
got to stay busy, busy, busy,right.
And so we want to just start tochange that, because If we
(15:44):
follow fear, we're not followingour vision.
If we follow fear, we end upall of a sudden going wait where
the hell am.
I Like this was not thecoordinates I put into my GPS,
right, Because we followedsomething else and that's pretty
normal.
So I I love that wholeconversation with fear and I do
like the idea of bringing incommon, because you know, fear
(16:06):
needs a buddy with fear and Iand I do like the idea of
bringing in common, because, youknow, fear needs a buddy,
exactly.
Angie Colee (16:10):
Uh and I.
I never thought of them untilthis very conversation as like
characters in that movie insideout, but now I feel the sudden
compulsion hello, adhd to writeout some sort of play where I
figure out what my innercharacters are.
There you go, just turn it intofuel, some sort of creative
exercise.
So I'm I'm curious.
(16:31):
We're going to throw acurveball like how, what got you
into this business?
Did you always know that thiswas something you wanted to do,
or was this a big transition?
Linda Perry (16:40):
Hell.
No, I mean, this is a hugetransition.
I mean, I was a, you know,federal criminal defense
attorney for 17 years, so I waswired to solve problems, tell
people what to do.
You know, I hung out in prisons.
It was great, but that feltlike, finally, like a sweater
that was shrinking on me and I,you know, I'd actually wanted to
(17:02):
be a writer early on and I hadthese parents who were very
well-meaning, they wereimmigrants, they were doctors,
and they said, ok, you need toget some higher level of
education, so you need to becomea doctor or a lawyer.
And so I faint at the sight ofblood.
So law school it was, and whileI loved so much of the law, I
(17:22):
just was like this isn't working.
And then I got divorced in 2005.
I blew up my whole life.
I had two small kids and it wasreally a check the box kind of
girl.
Until then I went to law school, I had the beautiful house, I
had the two kids I had.
You know, somebody called meand my ex-husband the perfect.
And I woke up one day and said,oh my God, I'm miserable.
(17:44):
I was suffering from severeanxiety, severe panic attacks.
Life was just not okay, and soI ended up blowing up my life
and there was a book on theshelf back in bookstores Debbie
Ford's book, spiritual Deportsand I picked it up and it kind
of saved my life.
It allowed me to recognize howI was actually co-creating the
(18:07):
life that I had.
And then I started to followDebbie's work on and off for
years and then, somewhere youknow about 2010, I got remarried
to my now husband in 2011.
And I started noticing similarpatterns and then I was angry.
And then one day I grabbed mydaughter's arm when she had sort
of disappeared in the park andI left a mark after digging my
(18:31):
nails because I was so scaredthat she had left, and I went,
you know, like holy shit, thatjust scared the hell out of me.
I was so angry, so almostdirectionless, if you will, and
not sure how to get out of it,and watching my second marriage,
already just a few months in,not going the way I want it.
(18:51):
And so I I said I looked at myhusband and I said I think I
need to do some work and Istarted to actually go into
Debbie's work and then shestarted training she was
actually training coaches and Idove into a year long program
and it literally changed my life.
I became a Ford coach.
It was her last class beforeshe died.
(19:12):
Debbie wrote nine bestsellingbooks.
She worked with Deepak Chopra.
She was.
Her books are great and she'sknown for Dark Sides of the
Light, chasers and the RightQuestions.
Those are two of my favorites.
But essentially I became ashadow coach, which is based on
Carl Jung's theories, and Ilooked at my husband.
I said I don't want to leavethe law and he said okie dokie,
(19:34):
and he really supported it andit was definitely a change.
And I think over the lastdecade that I've been a coach,
I've also been a copywriter.
In that process I think it'staken me time to grow into what
this is.
And it is now my purpose and mylife love.
(19:54):
Because when I left the lawthere was a part of me that I
still rejected like this.
That part that's like well,you're Linda's kind of direct
and tough, but I thought therewas no business in a coach
having that.
But that's actually not true.
And so over the last decadewhat I've learned is is that
this work is life-saving.
(20:14):
It has gotten me through.
We've lost all four of myparents.
My ex-husband has actuallypassed away.
I had to maneuver my childrenthrough all of that.
You know we've had tough times.
Every time I come back to thiswork to help me go, how do I
move through these challengeswith greater ease, with more
(20:37):
confidence, and how do Iactually build a life that I
want?
You know, you mentioned earlier, like you know, my name, linda
Pari.
I mean, we're joke because I'mnow living in Europe.
That was a 30 year dream.
That wouldn't have happened ifI didn't do the work on myself
to allow myself to move closerand closer to my vision.
And so was.
(20:58):
You know.
I know that was sort of longwinded to say I did.
I always want to do this.
No, and you know it, it alwaysbeen interested in deep feelings
, deep emotions.
How are we wired?
And so, for me, I'm a littleobsessed at this point.
We're wired I mean, I readeverything on it but it's really
(21:21):
at the aim of giving people thevoice that's inside them
already.
That's inside them alreadybecause we all sit and live this
life where we either wear masks, we're living somebody else's
version of our life, or we'redenying ourselves what we know
we are worth, and I think, forme, just being able to change
(21:43):
one person in the rightdirection.
That's awesome.
I mean, that's what this isabout.
So a little long-winded to getthere, but yeah, that's kind of
how I got here.
Angie Colee (21:54):
I think that's
great.
I was furiously writing notes,like I normally do, and one
thing that I wrote down was likethe power of the right idea at
the right time.
I know that I have dealt withthis and I think every single
person I have coached or workedwith has dealt with this, and I
think every single person I havecoached or worked with has
dealt with this, like this ideaof who am I to do this?
I don't have.
I don't have the authority,right.
(22:14):
That's where that's the wholeroot of permission to kick ass.
But I like to remind people andask them okay, so was there
ever a time that you read a bookor you watched a TED talk or
you, you did something where youpicked up an idea that just
made things click for you.
It was literally the right ideaat the right time and that
allowed you to make some bigchanges.
(22:35):
Everybody has a story like that,right.
One of my big stories is I'mhomeless, or practically
homeless, in LA and I spent 20bucks back in the day at Barnes
Noble before Amazon became thething it is to buy a book I
couldn't afford and became acopywriter just on a whim like
that.
Somebody said read this book, Iwent okay, I'm going to read
(22:56):
that book.
It changed my life.
The right idea at the righttime can change your life.
What's the point that I'mtrying to make in this?
You're hearing me articulate onthe fly.
Often we think we have to movemountains or that we need, I
don't know, to jump throughhoops before epiphany can strike
.
And it can strike when you'rejust doing the things that
(23:19):
you're doing and somebody saysthe right thing at the right
time.
And the other thing that yousaid that really stuck out to me
was the word allow.
Like I wrote that down andcircled it a couple of times
that we don't allow ourselves todo things or we do allow
ourselves, so like here.
Here's the distinction for me Iallow myself to wallow, I don't
allow myself to dream and thentake steps toward that direction
(23:42):
, because I've got that story ofwho am I to do this?
So allow and permission, Idon't know.
It all just seems like suchwonderful synchronicity today.
Linda Perry (23:51):
I mean it is and I
have to say I mean I go back to
just things that you know, likethat whole right timing thing.
My, my mom knew she wanted tobe a doctor at age six.
Now imagine being raised bythat and you're told that at age
six and I went at age six, meplaying with Barbies, going I
don't know what I want to do andI spent the next two to three
(24:13):
decades going.
I still don't know what I wantto do.
And the reality is is that itsort of unfolded from a series
of instances of picking up theright book, of being in the
right places, of learning whatwas really mine and me that
allowed me to get there.
I mean I often say you know, ifyou give yourself permission
(24:35):
and you collect enough no's,you're going to figure this
thing out right, like yourpurpose and passion.
So I think that piece of it isso important to remember.
And that whole allow thing Ilove.
How you have the distinction isI allow myself to wallow right,
like we allow ourselves too muchin the sense of our stories,
our limits right.
(24:56):
How you know, I always thinkabout identity foreclosure, like
how many people say I'm not thekind of person who I don't.
I mean.
My pet peeve is literallysomebody being like I'm an
introvert, so networking orbeing out there is not for me.
That's not it.
That's closing the door, andintroversion is also how we
recover from things, but it'sliterally we're selling
(25:18):
ourselves short.
We're allowing that to be ournarrative versus giving
ourselves permission to stand inour greatness.
It's like we almost have thisfalse humility that we have to
live behind, and that is not arecipe for a good life and it's
not a recipe for showing othershow to live too.
Angie Colee (25:40):
It really isn't,
and this is gonna be a random
tangent, but I had to write itdown.
I am not the only one thatsuffered from like paralyzing
fear when asked what do you wantto be when you grow up?
I never had an answer for thatas a kid, Never, not once.
And the closest I came, youknow, and you had to dress up
once, or at least in the schoolI went to, in elementary school.
(26:02):
I remember it was dress as whoyou want to be in the future.
And so we've got a bunch oftiny, you know rocket surgeons
running around and veterinariansand all of that stuff, and I
dressed as a lawyer because mydad said you would argue with a
stick.
You should probably be a lawyer.
Linda Perry (26:18):
Same right.
Angie Colee (26:19):
I actually did go
on to take the LSAT at one point
because I guess I got all theway into my mid twenties and was
still like none of this feelsright.
What do I even do?
I don't know what to do, andthese I mean.
I'm 40 and I'm still no closerto really knowing what I want to
do.
But every day it feels like itgets a little bit closer,
especially having awesomeconversations like this.
Linda Perry (26:40):
Yeah, and I think
that's okay though.
So like I was 40 and this waswhen I was changing my career,
right, and so you know it'sinteresting, this next
generation has a little bit morepermission to do that.
I mean, I have 20 year olds.
My daughter turns 24 tomorrowand I'll tell you she's already
had four or five different triesat things.
(27:01):
She's been a paralegal, a coach,an editor.
She's worked at the aquarium.
She's teaching Like an editor.
She's worked at the aquarium.
She's teaching like she's like.
Let me try on all these thingsand figure out who I am right.
And I think we weren't alwaysgiven that permission, because
at some point in time we weretold just suck it up, be happy
you have a job, be happy you'redoing something, happy you're
(27:22):
not on the street, whatever itis like, and suck it up even
though someone's treating youlike shit.
But they do have this mindsetof let me allow myself this time
so that I can actually growinto it, and I think there is
something that's important tothat allowing that really
everybody can benefit from.
Angie Colee (27:43):
Lash.
I wonder how much.
Well, I don't wanna pretendlike things could be solved, but
I wonder how much morehappiness we could potentially
have if we allowed ourselves totry on different identities and
experiment with that a littlebit, because it has always felt
like me to me.
I agree with you that theyounger generations are
encouraged to just try things,especially since the old systems
(28:06):
that we grew up with arebreaking down.
It is not get one career, staywith it for 3040 years, get a
pension and retire.
It is.
You know, you could be jobhopping for several years before
you find something.
You could find nothing and haveto make your own way as like a
creator or something.
So I don't know really where Iwas going with that, other than
I didn't feel until recentlythat I could try different
(28:27):
things.
It was like why don't you haveit figured out?
You should be farther, exactlyLike you said, shooting all over
yourself.
You should be farther than this.
Maybe we're just trying stuffon for size and going.
I don't like that.
Or giving it a little twirl andgoing this feels really good.
I'm going to stay here for awhile.
Linda Perry (28:44):
Yeah, I mean it
kind of brings us back to this
whole conversation we startedwith even before we hit record.
Like you know, is mindset workever done?
Like, is the work on yourselfeven ever done?
And I'm still trying outidentities.
I'm still, you know, learningwho I am in a lot of ways and
(29:05):
and I think that's okay and I amstill doing mindset work.
I think people might think,okay, mindset work is something
I show up and do occasionally,or I do when I'm struggling.
I am always doing mindset work.
There's integration times,there's growth times, but I'm
always doing my work and I oftensay it's not really work, it's
(29:26):
something I get to do, becausethe alternative means that I'm
going to be living a life ofpatterns, of repeat patterns of
pain, of really like, just likealmost bumping up against
different walls, and I thinkthat's kind of the conversation
we're having is.
I don't pretend, as a mindsetcoach, that I'm like, well, I
(29:47):
have everything absolutelytogether.
Angie Colee (29:49):
No, no, I have hard
days.
Linda Perry (29:51):
I have days where
I'm like, oh my God, there's
there again, what is going onRight, like it's called human,
and I think if we all approachedthat, we'd give ourselves a
little bit of like, that space,so that we can ultimately like
what you say kick ass.
Angie Colee (30:07):
Yes, oh, that makes
me so happy.
It's like for anybody thatneeds a reminder.
The people that teach marketinghave failed campaigns.
The people that teach mindsethave days where mindset is a
real struggle.
The people who practicemedicine get sick.
Like this is human.
This is part of the process.
No one person has it figuredout, and if they are telling you
(30:31):
they have it all figured out,they're trying to sell you
something.
Linda Perry (30:35):
Yeah, when we
decided to record this, I had,
you know, I'd moved to Europe.
It's been a little like a yearand a few months.
I actually had a really darkfall and winter like where I had
to come to terms with thingsthat I had been denying and
ignoring, and it was ugly and itwas hard and I did a lot of
trauma work and I did a lot of.
(30:56):
I went back to some really deep, deep work and I what's amazing
about doing those things timesor living through those times as
you come out on the other sidelike I can't tell you how, all
of a sudden, after really doingthat work of looking how
different I feel that I did eventhree months ago, looking
(31:26):
inward.
That's the power we all have.
It's not just me, it's not justyou.
We all have that power.
If we just gave ourselves, youknow, the permission to look, or
if we just stop being so scaredand following fear, I think
that's the place to start.
Angie Colee (31:36):
That distinction is
to me, the epitome of
empowerment.
I remember, like I said, when Iwas losing my house in LA, I
felt very, very powerless.
I don't have money to doanything.
I don't know a whole lot ofpeople here.
I mean like I had my classmates, but they're all broke grad
students just like me.
There's not really a supportnetwork here.
I'm feeling very powerless,very hopeless, very alone.
(31:59):
But I do remember having one ofthose early conversations with
myself before I stumbled ontomindset work and really started
working on this, where it waslike okay, but you're really
good at solving problems and notsleeping all night because
you're worried about theproblems isn't going to help.
So why don't we just let's?
Let's sleep as much as we canand if we wake up again, that's
(32:20):
okay.
We'll just try and go back tosleep and then tomorrow it's,
it's going to be okay.
Who do I talk to?
Who do I call?
What can I do about thissituation that I'm in and take
back the power?
And I'm trying to articulate onthe fly.
So everybody gets to hear mestumble in real time over these
words.
But one of the biggestpushbacks I get from people when
(32:45):
I'm talking about this work issomething along the lines of
yeah, it must be nice, like youcan afford this, you can do that
, you have the space for this.
And I think being able to dothose things starts even when
you feel powerless, even whenthe odds are stacked against you
, even when you're broke as shit, it starts with going okay,
(33:05):
well, I can't control that, thejob laid me off, I can't control
the fact that my debt hasspiraled out of control and,
like I don't see a way out otherthan bankruptcy.
None of these things that areout there are things that I can
control anymore.
That's in the past.
As my dad says face forward,it's behind you.
Time to move forward.
Okay.
So, from this point forward,what can I do?
(33:25):
Time to move forward Okay.
So, from this point forward,what can I do?
And it might just be as simpleas okay, I'm going to recognize
when the anxiety pops up.
That's what I'm going to do.
Okay, I'm going to talk tosomebody about this problem that
I'm dealing with and see ifmaybe there is a way out that I
don't see, like we're never aspowerless as it feels.
And you've got to be willing toexamine whether this is a story
(33:46):
.
You're telling yourself that Ican't do anything about this,
yeah.
Linda Perry (33:49):
I think that's the,
that's the key right there, one
of the things that you weredoing when you're talking about
this.
You went what can I do aboutthis?
Who can I talk to?
The worst word we can use whenwe're stuck is why.
The worst word we can use whenwe're stuck is why, why puts us
in story, why keeps us stuck invictim.
(34:10):
Yet it is a default for many ofus is to go into why me?
Why is this happening?
Why is the worst question?
So, if most people work with me, I avoid the question why.
But what is in your control?
What is the smallest possiblething you can do right now?
It may not seem big because wethink we have to go eat at the
(34:31):
buffet to get the hell out ofreally dark times.
No, what's the smallestpossible first step?
And you know it is.
I have had that like whileyou're living this great life,
you're in Europe.
I have lived both a shitty lifeand I've lived a great life.
I've lived a great life.
I've had the gamut of it.
I don't know whether you knowit makes it sweeter, and I know
(34:51):
living like where I am right nowis great, and it's not.
It's not always promised, but Iknow that I have the tools to
get through whatever it is,because it is.
What am I going to do?
What is in my control?
What do I leave outside becauseI can't do anything about it?
Angie Colee (35:09):
Yeah, and it's my
hypothesis.
I mean, obviously I can't provethis, but we see people coming
out of extraordinary,overwhelming circumstances and
beating the odds right, and myhypothesis is that those are the
people going okay, what can Ido?
Who can I talk to?
How do I move forward from here?
Versus, why is this happeningto me?
(35:30):
The sad news with why you know,especially since it gets you
into your stories is thatsometimes there is no why.
Sometimes it's just happening.
It's not even bad luck, it'sjust shit that happened and you
got caught up in timing or orwhatever.
Does that make it any more orless impactful, any more or less
(35:50):
meaningful?
I don't think so.
So, like, what does why have todo with this?
How and what are way moreimportant.
Linda Perry (35:58):
A hundred percent,
and I think I hope anybody who's
listening, if they catchthemselves in those places,
really the power is again beingin awareness of.
Oh, this is the story I'mcreating around this and this is
so unhelpful right now.
That's it.
Angie Colee (36:15):
That's step one.
And then, um, like, if I canlayer into that this and this is
one that I stumbled on quite byaccident with my best friends,
but probably like 15 years agoor so.
We've known each other for over20 years.
At this point I can't evenremember who it was, I just
remember the outcome of thisconversation.
One of us was talking to theother, beating ourselves up like
(36:37):
I'm such a piece of garbage itwas probably me in grad school,
if I'm being honest Like whycan't I get this together?
Look at so-and-so over here,look at so-and-so over there.
I'm such a loser, I'm such afailure.
And we just instituted a rule inthat moment of I can't talk to
myself in a way that I wouldn'ttalk to my best friend.
And like my best friend issomebody that I want a
(36:58):
relationship with.
I care about this person, Icare about their feelings.
I would never destroy theirsoul with intent.
So if I wouldn't go to myfriend and be like you, piece of
shit, what the hell is wrongwith you?
Why would you look at thisperson over here?
That's doing way better thanyou look at that person over
there.
But I'm cool talking to myselflike that and I think I'm going
(37:20):
to have an okay relationshipwith myself.
Linda Perry (37:22):
Go have a nice day.
Angie Colee (37:23):
Yeah, Seriously so,
and it's.
It's real hard work sometimes,especially on a down day or if
business isn't doing well, or ifI've had just a series of nasty
people talk to me and I'mfeeling a little bit dispirited
right To to look at myself andbe like, hey, you know what it's
going to be.
Okay, here's what you did.
(37:45):
That was really awesome.
Have you been in a situationlike this before where you found
a way out?
Could we maybe try that again,Like the stuff that I would say
to my best friend?
Or do you just need to vent fora little bit?
Do you just need to be heardand witnessed, or do we need to
solve a problem right now?
Okay, let's go into problemsolving mode.
(38:05):
So much better.
Linda Perry (38:07):
Yeah, and I want to
make a distinction about what
you've done there too, becausewhat you know and I often will
say, if it's not your bestfriend, would you talk to this
child version of yourself likethat, think of three-year-old
you and how adorable you are,and like, would you yell at
three-year-old you that way Hell, no, no-transcript, putting a
(38:48):
positive spin on it.
And it's not in.
You weren't doing that.
It's really about you know,cause a lot of people would be
like I'm fine, it's okay, it'sall like going to work out
sunshine, snow, roses.
We put this little layer on it.
And Debbie Ford used to have asaying and I'm sorry, justin
(39:11):
Blackman, because he hates whenI say this, but I'm going to do
it anyway but Debbie Ford usedto say that basically, that's
putting ice cream on poop.
A few scoops down, you got poop, basically.
And so the idea is is that youreally want to think about that?
It's not, it's not positive inanything, but it's really about
again, going back to this isn'tsolving anything.
Me beating myself up how can Igive myself a little compassion
here?
How can I reframe this, whichis what you were doing?
(39:33):
Reframe this and say how have Igotten through this before?
How have I actually beensuccessful before?
What am I not really looking athere?
Because I'm really narrowlylooking at what's wrong and how
bad I am.
That's a whole different systemand I think that's really
that's the beginning of shiftingyour mindset out into a more
(39:58):
healthy space.
Angie Colee (39:59):
Oh man, I kind of
want to keep going for like two
more hours.
This has been a fantastic ohGod.
Yeah, we definitely could.
It has been so comforting.
Like that's such sounds likesuch a weird thing to say as a
podcast host, as I hear myself,but like to know that I'm on the
right track and I mean I'vedone a lot of deliberate,
(40:20):
intentional mindset work, butjust to have it reflected back
at me from an expert is extraspecial validating today.
So I'm feeling good, not great.
We love that.
Well, thank you so much forbeing such a fantastic guest.
I have a feeling that there'sgoing to be a lot of people
writing in about this one, sowhy don't we tell the people
where they can find out abouthow to work with you?
Linda Perry (40:41):
Yeah, you can go to
my website, lyndamperrycom.
I also finished a recentpodcast series that you can
check out, about the feeling ofI am broken.
It is a belief that many of ushold that stops us, so please
check out the podcast.
It's a mindset first podcast.
It is on hiatus otherwise, butI am hosting special series and
that is one of them, so that'swhere you can go check it out.
Angie Colee (41:02):
Fantastic.
I'm going to make sure thatthere are clickable links in the
show notes.
Thank you again for being sucha fantastic guest.
I appreciate the hell out ofyou.
Linda Perry (41:10):
Thank you for
having me, it was great.
Angie Colee (41:15):
That's all for now.
If you want to keep thatkick-ass energy high, please
take a minute to share thisepisode with someone that might
need a high-octane dose of youcan do it.
Don't forget to rate, reviewand subscribe to the Permission
to Kick-Ass podcast on ApplePodcasts, spotify and wherever
you stream your podcasts.
I'm your host, angie Coley, andI'm here rooting for you.
(41:36):
Thanks for listening and let'sgo kick some ass.