December 18, 2024 • 48 mins
Today's guest is Robb Munger, founder of Exodus Place. Robb's an experienced real estate developer and is no stranger to business challenges, but starting Exodus Place proved to be an entirely new kind of challenge. We talked about the raw, real, and often misunderstood world of homelessness and addiction, and Robb does not hold back. He shared his journey from helping a single homeless guy to running the largest transitional housing facility in Michigan, and the lessons he learned along the way may just leave you feeling inspired to go help out wherever you can.
Can't-miss moments:
- The "God moment" - hear what inspired Robb to throw everything he had into Exodus Place, even when he already had so much going on in his life...
- My beef with asking for help: I get good and ranty about the time I had to swallow my pride and apply for food stamps...
- Turns out none of us are automatically good at a thing? Robb and I share what we've learned about being brand new (and how to handle it with slightly more grace)...
- Robb's surprising perspective shift that makes it easier for people to seek out help (I wish I'd had this one back in my unhoused days)...
- The "water bottle trick" Robb used to help someone struggling with addiction discover an unpleasant truth... and then DO something about it...
Robb's bio:
Robb Munger, founder of Exodus Place, champions transitional housing for homeless men. With a background in finance, where he established a leading financial company in manufactured housing, Munger’s journey took a pivotal turn when he joined the board of Guiding Light Mission. There, he propelled a struggling rescue mission into prominence and transformed a former state corrections facility into Michigan’s largest non-governmental transitional housing, offering new beginnings to those in need.
A former Army Officer, Munger’s commitment to service shines through his philanthropic work and innovative solutions in community development. His collaboration with the Salvation Army and Goodwill in a small town within American City has showcased an innovative approach to addressing homelessness, demonstrating the impactful change that results from combining compassion with action. This initiative, with Munger at the helm, has become a testament to the power of collaborative community efforts in making a tangible difference in people’s lives.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angie Colee (00:03):
Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass, the show
that gives you a virtual seatat the bar for the real
conversations that happenbetween entrepreneurs.
I'm interviewing all kinds ofbusiness owners, from those just
a few years into freelancing toCEOs helming nine-figure
companies.
If you've ever worried thateveryone else just seems to get
it and you're missing somethingor messing things up, this show
(00:24):
is for you.
I'm your host, Angie Coley, andlet's get to it.
And welcome back to Permissionto Kick Ass.
With me today is my new friend,Rob Munger.
Say hi.
Robb Munger (00:37):
Hi Great to meet you.
Angie Colee (00:38):
Angie, it's great to meet you too.
I'm never going to forget howto pronounce your name because
you said Munger like hunger.
Robb Munger (00:45):
Amen Right.
Angie Colee (00:46):
And that's actually kind of related to what you do,
right.
Robb Munger (00:49):
That's right.
Angie Colee (00:50):
So tell us a little bit about it.
Robb Munger (00:51):
Well for Exodus Place.
We help the homeless.
We're a transitional housingfacility, we're not a rescue
mission.
So our thing is to help peoplethat are deciding they don't
want to be homeless anymore orthey're coming out of prison
jail.
They've decided at some pointin their life that, hey, this is
(01:15):
it and I want change.
Angie Colee (01:18):
That's such important work, what?
Robb Munger (01:21):
got you into that?
Well, I helped a homeless guy.
He said I'll work for food, andthis was back in 2007.
Put him to work.
I had the preconceivedprejudice notions that homeless
(01:42):
people are lazy was raised thathey, if you could pound nails or
sweep floors, you had a job.
And so I assumed they were justbeing lazy.
And then met Tim McCann andlearned that his lifestyle, what
had happened when he wasgrowing up, was a big impact on
(02:07):
him.
And this was back when if yousmoked pot, you got arrested.
So he ended up with a felonyand it just snowballed on him
and realized he was working formy company.
I own a real estate developmentcompany.
I still own that.
And then he was working for meat home and the guy was
(02:29):
brilliant.
He was extremely smart,hardworking, could figure things
out, was fun to work with andI'm like, okay.
So all my preconceptions wereabsolutely wrong and I put
myself out there.
Okay, because nobody wants tosay you're prejudiced.
But I think we're all a littleprejudiced, no matter what.
(02:52):
We're always prejudging peopleto be safe and protect ourselves
.
But just loved working withthis guy.
He started drinking about eightweeks later, connected him with
a rescue mission, ended upbeing on the board of directors
of the rescue mission.
(03:14):
The rescue mission it's one ofthe largest ones in the state of
Michigan ran into financialtrouble.
The board asked me to step inas a business person.
They said, hey, we don't need achristian pastor or somebody,
we need somebody that hashorsepower and can kick ass, you
know, um, and?
And I'm like, wait a second,I'm a country mouse, okay.
(03:36):
And I said you can do your job.
You know, keep, keep.
Obviously, keep doing whatyou're doing.
But we need somebody to rightthe ship.
And I did increase the P&Lprofit and loss by 6,400%.
They were at a point of havingto close the doors after about
50 years.
And so I thought, hey, I did mygood thing.
(04:01):
I helped Tim because Tim workedfor me for like eight weeks and
so I had a really goodconnection with Tim and then
helped the rescue mission and Ihad this building, exodus Place.
It was the old MichiganDepartment of Corrections
halfway house, so it's 38,000square feet.
(04:22):
We're the largest transitional,non-government transitional
housing facility in the state.
Actually, even government-wisewe're still the largest.
And I had this set to bedonated to the rescue mission to
do transitional housing.
And what ended up happening isthe rescue mission said hey, you
just got us out of the fire,we're in the skillet now.
(04:44):
Commission said hey, you justgot us out of the fire, we're in
the skillet now, just kind of,you know, licking our wounds.
After nine months of me turningthings around, we're going to
pass on this.
So I left.
I thought, hey, I did my goodGod thing, checked the boxes.
You know I'm going to heaven,you know, kind of you know type
of thing.
But that's really kind of whatI was thinking, because I'd
(05:06):
never done anything like that.
My wife and I would donate.
But I hated working fornonprofits because volunteering,
they weren't organized andeverything.
And I ended up after two weeksgoing out to dinner with my wife
and had a God moment.
All I can say is all of asudden it just hit me and I
(05:27):
looked at my wife.
I said I'm supposed to do thisproject and so I ended up
starting Exodus Place, actually15 years ago, in one day, so
July 2nd 2009.
So this is cool that I'm onthis.
The building was decimated, thefire suppression had burst
(05:50):
because we're in Michigan, so itfroze and the managing partner.
It was owned by a privateentity that leased it to the
state.
They were from Louisiana, theywinterized the regular plumbing,
but they didn't winterize thefire suppression, so everything
was flooded.
It smelled like mold mildew.
(06:11):
It had been closed up for twoyears and I opened it up with
four homeless guys and it was a$100 a month lease because I
agreed to pay the back taxes,which were about $300,000.
And I said you got to give mesome time and it took us about
(06:34):
eight years to get them all paidoff.
And in the state of Michigan,if you didn't pay, you know the
oldest bill they would auctionyour property.
So every year I'd go to the taxassessor and sit in his office
and say, hey, I got everything,but let's say 5,000 bucks, can
(06:57):
you, you know, bump it anotheryear?
And they bump it another yearand they bump in another year.
So it was absolutely crazy.
You talk about starting fromthe back of the pack and then
going back another mile.
That's about where I started.
When you know you get thatstarting line with four homeless
(07:19):
guys myself, 38,000 square footbuilding and 2009,.
Highest unemployment, highestforeclosure, highest bankruptcy,
and I go.
I'm going to take this projecton.
Angie Colee (07:34):
I'm all in.
I've never done this before.
Let's figure it out.
Robb Munger (07:37):
It was absolutely the dumbest, craziest thing I've
ever done in my life that wasprobably going to fail.
I mean I told people, I saidwe're probably most likely going
to fail.
This is absolutely.
I mean women, children, puppies, kittens, those are cute.
I mean you donate for those.
(07:57):
You go.
Hey, you want to donate forguys?
Not really.
Angie Colee (08:03):
That's so unfortunate.
Like everybody needs help fromtime to time and I remember the
stigma of this.
You know what, we're just goingto roll with it.
I was like I don't know whythis story is coming up.
But I know why this story iscoming up.
So when I was going to gradschool, I was living in Los
Angeles arguably a veryexpensive city, right, and at
one point I'm doing full-time,unpaid internships because
(08:27):
entertainment industry and I'mdoing classes on nights and
weekends and I'm running out ofmoney.
I just don't know what else todo.
So my parents advised me applyfor benefits.
You've been paying into thissince you were 14 years old.
There's nothing wrong withbeing on food stamps, it's just
temporary.
It's there to support you andso with that mindset, I went
into it like that's right.
(08:47):
I've been working since I was14.
I've paid a lot into thissystem.
It's okay for me to take itwhen I have a need and then just
to go back to work and keepreplenishing it, right?
Oh my gosh, the amount ofjudgment and nasty looks and
unsolicited commentary I gotwhenever I whipped out that EBT
card.
I felt so much shame for justdoing what I needed to do to
(09:11):
survive and I hated that.
It was like exactly like youmentioned at the beginning.
There was so much prejudice andprejudgment.
I had people that would commenton my car, that would comment
on my cell phone.
Everything is secondhand,everything is paid off.
I'm going to Ross and shoppingfor clothes.
La is an image conscious city.
I have to look the part, if Iwant to get the job, like can't
(09:34):
show up and just like rattyjeans because that's all I got.
Ain't nobody going to give me ajob, right?
But because people make theseassumptions just looking at your
situation from the outside, itwas so deeply uncomfortable and
so I'm very grateful for folkslike you for the experience that
I had too.
That one changed that perception, gave me an opportunity to stop
(09:54):
being judgy before I understoodwhat the entirety of the
situation was.
Two take that situation andactually go do something about
it.
Not just have the lesson, butactually go do something.
So you know you started ExodusPlace.
I volunteer that's my.
I do that kind of sporadically,but every time I tell people
when my world has becomeme-centric, when I am the center
(10:15):
of the universe and my problemsseem like the biggest things to
ever exist.
That's usually when I get alittle bird that says, hey, go
volunteer for a little bit, likehelp out some people that are
struggling with stuff.
That is way worse than what youwere going through right now.
Just remember you're not thecenter of it all.
That's always been a goodphilosophy for me.
Robb Munger (10:33):
Oh, I totally agree .
I mean and I admire you, I tryto.
I tell everybody, ask for help.
I'll have guys here that say,well, you don't ask for help,
and I go.
I have a kitchen manager, anurse, case managers, I have two
pastors, well, three.
I have a bookkeeper, I have aCPA and then in my personal I
(10:57):
have a private you know businessand in real estate development,
some other businesses and I go.
I have project managers.
How do I do everything if I doit all on my own?
When you need help, I don'tcare if it's food stamps, bridge
guard, we call them bridgeguards here.
You know housing assistance,cell phone assistance.
(11:18):
Take the assistance because youhave a mission, a goal.
You can take that and leverageup and become successful.
But if you say nope, nope, Igot it out of pride, you will
lose.
Yes, I mean you will always loseif you don't take the help.
Angie Colee (11:36):
Absolutely Well and I'm like this is where I have
kind of a bone to pick withAmerican exceptionalism, right.
I do love that this is a landof opportunity I do.
I am super grateful that I wasborn here and that I've had the
opportunities that I've had tojust build whatever I want to
build right.
There's definitely worse placesto be and also there are a lot
of societies where there is acommunity factor in place, where
(11:57):
somebody is sick and struggling.
You don't just leave them aloneto struggle and die on their
own because, oh well, havefigured out their stuff sooner,
like yeah, it's a lot ofjudgment in the united states.
Robb Munger (12:09):
I mean, we don't have, um, the family nucleus is
different here, uh, compared toindia, um, um, pakistan, uh,
israel, um, I mean, china, japan, the family nucleus really does
help each other a bit more thanthe US.
I just had a conversation froma person from Pakistan yesterday
(12:34):
and that was the discussion.
I appreciate that we'resupposed to, you know, get on
our feet and make it happen, butdoing it as a team boy, yeah,
and as a family nucleus, I mean,and I'm guilty of it, you know,
like with my kids, hey, get outthere, buzz tail.
(12:56):
But I'm softening up on that abit now.
Angie Colee (13:01):
Hey, like we all start where we start, and I
think that's the biggest.
One of the biggest points I tryto make on this show is like
there's no judgment.
If you are approaching asituation with judgment, you're
already shutting down anypossibility of there to be some
sort of growth and furtherdiscussion.
Texas was shut down when I wasyoung.
(13:26):
I grew up in South Texas, rightLike that was my.
I had a very us versus themmentality, very America, yeah,
texas.
That's just the way that I grewup.
And when you don't have anyother perspective, it's hard to
just like spontaneously developperspective, right, until you're
exposed to somebody else thatchallenges your worldview.
Now if I come to that challengeand go, you're wrong, like this
is what I know to be true Well,nothing is going to happen.
But if I come to that and I go,ok, well, I don't know what, I
(13:49):
don't know, let's see whathappens, oh, that's where
learning and growth takes placeand it's difficult and it's
uncomfortable and it suckssometimes, but it makes your
world so much bigger and betterfor it.
Robb Munger (14:02):
You're absolutely right.
I mean, hey, it's uncomfortablefor me to be interviewed on
podcast.
I mean, oh yeah, I mean I liketo just do my thing and just
keep working.
You know, I'm kind of thegeneration you just worker be,
you know, and Midwesterners areknown for that, and so this is
my, you know, area of expertise.
(14:25):
So you have it.
You know, you can't, you can'tprejudge.
I mean it just doesn't work.
If you go into it to see what'sgoing to show up and you have
good people around you, I meanthere's amazing things.
That's how I run all mybusinesses is.
You know, I just am looking forpeople, good people, and then
(14:50):
listen more than tell, and thenlisten more than tell.
It's amazing how much betterthings go than just relying on
my own talent and my ownknowledge.
Angie Colee (15:01):
Oh yes, oh yes.
Actually, I had a client thatcame to me recently with
something to that effect Like wehad done a project together and
I could tell that something wasoff and this person was not
happy, and so I came to thefinal call like, ok, tell me
what's up.
Right, obviously there's a partof me that's going.
This really sucks.
I want you to be happy.
I don't know what's going on.
(15:21):
But when I come to the call,it's like let's get to the
bottom of this.
I don't want you to leave thisfeeling unhappy, let's see if we
can fix it way.
So we go through.
I actually wound up offering acouple of extra calls on this
just to help figure these thingsout.
(15:41):
And when the engagement wasfinally finished, there's like a
conglomerate, an instance likeconglomeration of events, and
this person had wound up havinglike a photography publicity
shoot and the marketing projectthat they had done with me, and
then wound up coming back to meand thanking me and I don't say
all this to pat myself on theback, but like this was a
learning experience for me too.
(16:01):
They said, oh, I just realizedthat I was like so fixated on
controlling the how and theminutia that I didn't trust you.
I didn't trust thisphotographer publicity person to
do what I hired you to do.
And this whole experience hashelped me realize I've got a lot
of growth to do to be a betterclient.
And I said, hey, I appreciatethe fact that you are saying
(16:24):
that and also give yourselfgrace, because none of us comes
out of the gate knowing how tobe an excellent client.
Right, you were just doing thebest that you could and I'm glad
that I could help you have thatrealization and I'm glad that
we could get this projectwrapped up in a way that made
you happy, right.
Robb Munger (16:40):
That's critical.
I mean learning how to be agood client, be a good employer,
good boss.
People aren't objects, they'repeople and we need to treat them
as people, not objects.
Angie Colee (16:57):
Yes, that's so important.
I used to tell people all thetime I was the worst for a long
time, especially with mybackground in screenwriting and
Los Angeles and theentertainment industry.
I was writing little plays thatall of you guys were starring
in, Like I'm writing a part forAngie and I'm writing a part for
Rob, and stop.
You are not following thescript, Rob.
I need you to follow the script.
(17:19):
The day that I realized thatthis world is not Angie's just
movie and I am not the directorof the universe.
It was a humbling experienceand it has made my life a lot
easier now too.
Robb Munger (17:29):
Very true.
I think we all go through that.
I know I have very true.
Angie Colee (17:36):
I think we all go through that.
I know I have, oh yeah, I havelike word for word scripts of
like arguments in the shower andstuff like that, and then I
have to realize, oh right,they're not just going to play
the part that I wrote for them,so maybe I have to show up and
listen and be a human we needmore of that, angie I'm trying,
I'm doing my, my small part toto help us all open up to the
potential of there beingsomething different from what we
expect.
(17:57):
Speaking of different from whatwe expect, I mean you mentioned
this rundown building startingwith four guys, starting with
this enormous overhead.
You expected to close and forthis to not work, how did you
even?
Robb Munger (18:18):
work.
How, how did you even?
Um, I'm big into business plans.
I utilize a one-page plan so ithas a SWOT analysis so
strengths, weakness,opportunities and threats.
And then I'll have like aone-year plan, a 90-day plan, a
quarterly plan and then a 30-dayplan, and then I I do the theme
, um, branding, um, uh, specificgoals, what we stand for, and
(18:41):
so, um, really dig in that wayand that was probably the unique
thing.
Okay, I came from doingmulti-million dollar real estate
projects.
Now I have four homeless guysand two of them are crackheads
and two of them are alcoholicsand I had to teach them you know
(19:05):
how to read a business plan.
The reality is, we are going tofollow the business plan.
This is, you know, it's notword for word.
You know, kind of my earlierdays it was more micromanaged.
Now I'm macromanaged and so Itaught them all that.
And then I taught them assetallocation, because we didn't
(19:25):
have a lot of money, banksweren't doing lines of credits,
so I had to teach them assetallocation.
So I had to teach them assetallocation so we would look at
our needs.
Painting was a critical needbecause of all the humidity in
the building.
All the paint had like fallenoff the walls.
(19:49):
It flooded that much.
I mean it was like two to threefeet of flooding.
I mean the doors were holdingthe water in and so we had to
paint the whole building.
So I said, ok, asset allocationthis is assets we're going to
buy an asset which is paintwe're going to put on the wall,
(20:09):
and then we need to have asystem.
So that's how we got going isreally right from the business
plan.
And then I then started teachingthem that painting and running
a business is more than justpainting.
We have to be thinking of it ina global sense of how this is
(20:30):
going to affect the business.
So I was always analyzingeverything and it was fun.
I would get the guys analyzingit and they're like, oh so this
is how you run a business.
It's not just collecting money,spending money, there's a lot
(20:50):
more to it.
So we created systems foreverything.
But it was hard.
I mean, mean, we run a hybridsystem here.
So we, we get um, we call itmembership dues because it's a
program um, the men are goingthrough counseling, uh, medical
help.
Um, we have a liaison nursethat actually works with their
(21:14):
doctors, their nurses, and thenwe provide the food here.
So they pay about two-thirds ofthe cost here, and then we
raise one-third of the costthrough donations, and so really
(21:34):
kind of just kept working withthem with that, so that they
would see a plan in eachdepartment, and then each
department now runs itself oh,that's really cool.
Angie Colee (21:46):
Did they wind up like staying in and taking
charge of those departments, orhow did that work?
Robb Munger (21:51):
well, the goal was to to do that.
Unfortunately, the addictionissues uh became too strong.
Um, it was.
And dealing, I don't have any.
I have a donut addiction.
Okay, so I'm gonna call myself.
The guys laugh at me and theygo.
You know that's not addiction,I go.
(22:12):
Hey, if I eat one, one longjohn, I'm eating five more and a
sugar, sugar buzz.
Um, but in reality is I don'tknow what it's like for alcohol.
I'm not alcoholic, I've neverbeen one, and you know I don't
like pot, so I'm not, I don'tlike the effects of it, so I
(22:35):
don't experience all that.
And unfortunately the guysstarted drinking.
So one guy ended up drinkingand ended up stealing money from
us.
So he obviously got asked toleave.
So he obviously got asked toleave.
The next guy started doingheroin and got the other
(23:01):
individual that was an alcoholicinvolved with heroin and
unfortunately Neil passed awayfrom an overdose.
And then the, the fourth one,he, he started doing crack again
and he just knew, just like, Iknow I'm out of here, aren't I?
And I said yep.
(23:22):
So we, we set up a theme here.
We have three pillars.
So the first pillar is people,mission me.
So, um, it's easy to follow.
And, uh, the mission is it's ahand up, not a hand up.
So if a guy comes here and hesays I've had men come here and
(23:44):
they say you owe me becauseyou're a non-profit, I don't owe
you anything yeah.
Go to the rescue mission if youwant food, but this isn't.
This is.
We're going to work together.
So people first mission than me, and then the other is train,
(24:04):
develop and communicate.
One of the most critical thingswith homeless people and each
pillar comes to deal with peoplethat are struggling, so it's
not really even homeless peoplewe need to keep training and
developing a skill and we needto communicate.
And when you're in alcohol anddrug addiction or let's say
(24:28):
you're having a mental illnesssession because mental illness
isn't forever, I mean sometimesit's just like the flu we always
have to train, develop andcommunicate.
So you know, a professionalfootball player is not going to
(24:48):
be perfect.
He's going to make mistakes andso we just keep training and
developing the skill.
And then we have to communicate.
And alcohol and drugs reallyisolate.
You know it creates a silo.
So if you drink and you startthinking about it, the more you
drink, the more numb thecommunication gets.
(25:09):
You can say, well, I'm reallythe life of a party.
It is up until a certain pointof severe alcoholism and then
you start isolating and that's agood numbing effect.
So I had to teach people how tocommunicate.
So that really was a criticalthing is getting the guys to
(25:30):
communicate.
And then also in thecommunication, a lot of them had
been in a jail or a prison andwith the jail or prison they
were always talked at and theywere told what to do.
And so I had to change theircommunication style so that they
talked with me and we workedtogether.
(25:52):
They talked with me and weworked together.
That was a big breakthrough andthat's one of our key things
for success.
And then the last pillar is love, compassion and accountability.
So if a guy comes in, I'm goingto lead off with love, so I
want to show that person loveand then compassion, Because
(26:14):
when they've come in, they don'thave anything.
They've been kicked in theteeth, Some literally they're
they're looking for a safe haven.
So we, we really look at thatlove and compassion and that
nasty accountability.
I tell the guys it's, I love todrive fast, but when the police
(26:34):
officer pulls me over for going85 and it's in a 60 mile an
hour zone, he's not trying to bemean, it's just I'm going 25
miles an hour over the speedlimit and I get a ticket, and
that's just accountability.
It doesn't mean he hates me andso we have that's just
accountability.
It doesn't mean he hates me.
We have that here at Exodus.
(26:55):
We'll have somebody bring drugsor alcohol in the facility and
we go.
You get 24 hours out or you get48 hours out or seven days, or
you get a month out.
But this is a privilege to behere and we don't hate you.
Angie Colee (27:12):
But there's rules rules so yeah you got to make
different choices if you wantdifferent results, right?
You can't bring you can't bringwhat got you here, here to get
you to the next place, like andexpect you to change.
It doesn't work that way that'sjust as true in like our daily
life as it is in running abusiness.
I I found like this is on thelast call that I recorded we
(27:35):
talked about this being a kindof a constant journey out of
your comfort zone, because onceyou hit your goal, okay, well
then, now we've got to set thenext goal.
You don't really stagnate forlong if you're running an
effective business, in myexperience.
Okay, Now we've set the newgoal.
This is also outside of mycomfort zone.
Oh damn it.
I thought we were past this bynow.
(27:55):
Turns out no.
Robb Munger (27:57):
That's it.
But if you don't do that,you're not going to grow Exactly
.
Angie Colee (28:02):
Exactly and like I totally get it.
Growing is uncomfortable,facing mistakes that you've made
is uncomfortable.
Facing judgment and our owninternalized shame, like half of
the time.
I've come to realize,especially through these
conversations, the shame that wefeel is way more intense than
the shame that other people areactually putting on us Like they
(28:23):
might be thinking about us andpassing and going.
What is what is up with Angie?
Why is she doing this?
I'm so she'll come around,it'll be okay.
I'm just gonna distance myself,right?
That has happened before.
And then I'm over here going.
They're not talking to me.
I am the worst person ever.
I have clearly messed up, right.
Woe is me.
It's never as bad as it seems.
(28:43):
There's always a way out.
Even if it's hard, there'salways a way out.
Robb Munger (28:48):
End rant that's so true.
I mean, that's one big thingthat we work.
I don't.
We don't have a lot of um ruleshere.
A lot of people are surprised.
It's basically don't smoke, youknow, don't do drugs in the
building, don't drink in thebuilding and no violence.
Um, those are my three bigrules pretty basic rules for
(29:11):
life, I think yeah, and it's.
It's funny because they theywill say it's really easy to
work here and live here, andbecause we have a workforce
development program too, and wedon't know why it's working here
and it doesn't work outside.
You know why it wasn't workingand and.
(29:31):
But we also set a culture withthose three pillars that this is
how we're going to behave.
So, if a guy comes up and he'sgoing I need this, I need this,
I want this, and I go, wait asecond, we got that first pillar
.
What are you doing for somebodyelse?
Well, you got to understand.
(29:52):
I don't need to understandanything.
I understand that you arecentered around you and you
don't care about me.
You don't care about any of theother guys.
Well, you're not important.
I said great, I understand that.
So, guess what, since you'reprojecting, I'm not important.
(30:13):
The other guys are bums.
But you just got off the streetfrom camping, from being
homeless, and you're moreimportant than all of us, right,
yeah, and I go.
So how's it been working foryou?
Angie Colee (30:27):
well, nobody wants to help me I.
Robb Munger (30:30):
Well then, why don't you try it this way?
And I've had so much successwhere people go okay.
So one of the.
I don't have, like I said, manyrules.
One of the rules is if you walkinto Exodus Place, is we
introduce ourselves first to youBecause you're uncomfortable?
(30:52):
Yeah, so whether you're, let'ssay, a business person coming in
to a place that's holdinghomeless people that have gone
to jail, prison and everythingelse, or you're coming from the,
you know, deciding to get offthe streets, either way you're
nervous because we're people,and so come in.
(31:13):
Hey, hi, my name is Rob Munger.
What's yours?
You know what can I help youwith?
And all of a sudden you go.
Okay, oh, this person is givingme the impression they care
about me and I'm a person.
Small roles.
Angie Colee (31:31):
Yeah, I'm glad that you brought that up because I
feel like a lot of people feellike it's so much effort to care
and to quote or bastardize aquote from a movie that I really
love.
That's kind of corny.
It's called Ever After.
The prince, who's veryconceited and self-absorbed,
says I once thought that if Icared about anything, I'd have
(31:52):
to care about everything and I'dgo stark, raving mad.
It's not that big of anundertaking to care, and often
it starts with these littlethings, these tiny decisions.
Like I greet people because Iknow that this is uncomfortable,
I want them to feel welcomehere.
So totally different vibe forme to say hi, I'm Angie Coley,
welcome.
What brings you in today?
(32:13):
How can I help you?
For me, then, for me to be overhere not paying attention when
you walk in.
You have to go.
Hey, excuse me.
Hey, hey, hey, is this thing on?
Do you even see me?
And then I turn around allaggravated like can you give me
a minute?
Totally different vibe Tinytiny decision, tiny tiny action.
It's not caring abouteverything in the world and
(32:36):
being ground by it all, it'scaring just a little bit.
Robb Munger (32:39):
That's it.
We're a Christian-basedorganization, but we're a seeker
one.
So you can come in and not're aChristian-based organization,
but we're a seeker one.
So you can come in, not be aChristian.
There's no judgment, zero Lovethat Really mean that, but it's
(33:02):
just focused on that person.
I call those God appointmentsbecause you're showing somebody
love and compassion and theirday could be total crap and in
that moment that you're presentwith them, you go huh, you know
somebody cares.
Yeah, I mean we deal withpeople that kill themselves,
(33:26):
have suicide.
Yeah, I mean we deal withpeople that kill themselves,
have suicide and it's and boy, Ijust don't ever want to be that
person.
That's too busy for somebodythat's that has a stress.
Angie Colee (33:40):
And God appointments always show up when
I'm busy.
They love to challenge us,don't they?
Robb Munger (33:44):
Yeah, and then you go, oh, you know I'm really busy
.
And then I go, yep, what'sgoing on?
And I got to just stay, youknow, present with them, and
then everything works out, myschedule works out.
But that person knows I caredabout them.
(34:05):
At least somebody cared aboutthem.
Angie Colee (34:07):
Funny how that always works out, that like I
can't possibly help this person,I'm way too busy.
If I do this, I can't do that.
Drama, drama, drama, right, andI'm not saying that to you,
that's definitely me.
But if I do the thing, my soulis called to help people right.
And if I help the person,despite all my busyness, it
(34:27):
always, always, works out.
There has never been a time inmy life that it has failed to
work out when I followed myheart and helped the person.
Robb Munger (34:38):
You're exactly right and usually for me, like
with my business here, and thenfor-profit.
When I do that, I get a deeperrelationship with my customers.
Today I had two customers thattext me and they said thank you
(34:58):
for being who you are.
Angie Colee (35:01):
I love that.
That's really awesome.
Robb Munger (35:04):
I mean, I didn't prompt them, I was just and you
know there was, they need helpwith a couple of things, and but
it's.
You get better customers whenyou treat people better.
Angie Colee (35:21):
Yes, you get better everything when you treat
people better.
You get better employees, youget better partnerships.
You get everything is betterwhen you treat people, I think,
actually, that brings me back toa point that I wrote down
earlier that I wanted to circleback to, which was like.
You might have heard me chucklewhen you said to that man like
one of those tiny littledecisions to lean into the
control factor and be like, allright, but you don't get it, get
(35:50):
out, versus leaning into thecompassion of like and how's
that been working for you?
Talk about like.
That's an instance, guys, rightwhere you're slapping somebody
in the face.
Without having to slap them inthe face, you're confronting
them with the reality of theirdecisions.
You're confronting them withthe reality of their decisions
and that's often way moreintense and meaningful and
personal and like, going to leadthem to a learning than you
(36:13):
going.
Don't you see everything thatyou're doing wrong?
Let me show you theconsequences.
I just thought that wasbrilliant.
Robb Munger (36:21):
I'm still working on that because it's amazing,
because my intent is to do good.
And then let's just say I havea day that I react poorly
because we're human.
So you have a trigger that,emotionally, something happened
in my past that would trigger meto snap or not be as nice as
(36:42):
normal.
And that's just reality foreverybody.
There are some saints out there.
I'm not one of them.
So one of the things I ask toois like I'll hold a water bottle
and I go, hey, they'll explain.
You know why their way works sowell, let's say, giving me
(37:05):
excuses why I don't pay theirbills on time, why they can keep
drinking.
And I go tell you what, let me,if I drop this bottle or let go
of this bottle, is it going upor down?
And they go, well, obvious,it's going down.
I said so.
You've been an alcoholic to theextent that you've been
arrested numerous times.
(37:26):
You don't have a driver'slicense, so you think you can
drink a little bit.
So what if I just let go ofthis bottle a little bit?
Is it gonna?
What's it gonna do?
It must?
It's probably gonna hover, goup, and, and so I'll bring
(37:48):
examples like that to the menand they go.
It's that simple, isn't it I?
Angie Colee (37:55):
go.
Robb Munger (37:56):
I said there's some people that can drink.
I said I can drink, um, and Ican put it down.
Um, you're not wantable andit's just.
You know, got it.
You enjoy drinking, but do youenjoy the after effects?
I mean, I have guys thatthey've lost fingers, toes, legs
(38:21):
, oh yeah, diabetes.
The one things too.
And I love people that aretrying to help the homeless, but
don't give them a donut and I'ma donut-holic in recovery but
you know, they're out on thestreet and they get so many
high-carb donuts and they drinkand the sugar content and what
(38:45):
happens to their diabetes?
Most of them are diabetic, ahigh percentage.
I don't know the exactpercentage, so it's.
You know you have to know how tohelp people and so a lot of
times I'll tell you know, like avolunteer or somebody that
wants to help a homeless person,they say, hey, can you give me
(39:07):
some coaching?
And I ask them, ask the person,what they need, and the first
thing is money.
They're going to tell you toask again, ask again.
Okay, so you need money.
So what do you need money for?
(39:27):
So what are you going to dowith that item that you're going
to buy once?
Once you get the item and allof a sudden, a relationship
starts developing and then youget to find out what they really
need or what their goal is, andthen you can help them.
(39:48):
But and and I've I give money tothe homeless.
I have a few homeless guys Iknow that are, um, they're
permanently mentally ill andthey have some physical ailments
and they're just they're.
It's tough, so I'll give themmoney.
Uh, there's other people.
When I'm in different cities Iwill talk to them and I want to
(40:11):
go upstream a bit and see can Ihelp them more than just give
them money.
And I think we can do that forclients, for your for-profit,
and everything is go upstream,ask another question, um,
because so many times the answeris like three or four questions
(40:33):
away and we like that snapchat,um, text message, two, three
words, I got my answer.
Or google search, I got myanswer and I'm moving on.
And I think that's where thatrelationship comes in and that's
why I'm always pushing atExodus places, relationship
(40:56):
Cause the goal isn't just togive them housing.
You know people say, well, justgive them housing, I'll fix
everything.
That's the dumbest thing.
There's so many failures inthat whole system because people
want a relationship.
Angie Colee (41:16):
Yeah, I'm glad that you brought that up, because
one of the many places Ivolunteered in my time I was at
a crisis intervention centerbefore the pandemic happened,
and that's a mission that'sreally close to my heart,
because there are a lot ofpeople that are just kind of
suffering under abuse, right,and they're afraid and they
don't think they can get out andthey don't even begin to know.
(41:37):
I think one of the mostimpactful parts of my training
as a volunteer for those crisishotlines was the fact that we
had a two-day training.
It was very intense and one ofthe biggest takeaways that I had
from that was I can't prescribesomebody else's fix because, no
matter how many questions I askthem, I don't know everything
that they know.
(41:57):
I only know what they can tellme and sometimes, especially in
that kind of situation, theycan't tell me the truth.
It would put them in danger, soanything that I'm recommending
to them based on my limitedworldview could actually
endanger this person's life.
I don't have a fix for them.
They have a fix for them.
I can help them find the fix,but, just like you talked about,
(42:19):
this is us working together.
This is a hand up, not a handout.
So what can I do?
What do you need?
Do you need a place to staytonight?
Okay, let me make some phonecalls, see if I can find you a
bed.
Do you need an escort to ourbuilding?
Okay, let me see if I can callthe police and get this figured
out.
What do you need from me?
I need money.
Okay, let me put you in touchwith a couple of missions.
But, like, what's what's goingon?
(42:40):
Why do you need money?
Do you need a place to stay?
Are you hungry?
What's going on?
Walk me through that.
Right, it was, and it ties backto this exercise that we did.
We were all given envelopeswith different slips of paper
red, yellow and green and we allhad different amounts of red,
yellow and green papers and wewere given a scenario and
everybody had to make decisionsthat cost us little strips of
(43:02):
paper, kind of like spendingmoney and after a couple of
moves, a lot of people are outof paper, they're out of options
, they don't have anywhere elseto go and there are still moves
to be made and they're still indanger.
And it just it changed myperspective of how much I judged
other people for not knowingtheir situations.
We've all got differentcapacities and different
resources, and judgment is notthe way to fix that.
Robb Munger (43:26):
Amen, I love it.
I mean, I absolutely love itbecause that's the type of
training that we work withpeople here, because I sat with
a person when I was at therescue mission.
I had a very successful personcome in, very kind, super kind
guy.
He was giving one of ourhomeless guys.
(43:49):
He had just come in, he hadn'teaten in like probably five days
, he was hooked on crack andwhat he did was he was using the
money for his crack and feedinghis kids and finally there was
interventions.
And finally there wasinterventions.
This guy's eating and this verysuccessful person is telling
(44:11):
this person that's basicallystarving what he needed to do to
change his life.
And I watched that and I'm likeI understand the intent of the
well-to-do individual, but thatperson that's in need was in a
whole different spot and so whathe was talking about it was
(44:35):
like bringing a hammer when youneed a screwdriver, and we have
to ask them what tool do youneed?
You know, like I said, find outwhat they need and they'll
figure it out.
They'll say, hey, I need ascrewdriver.
Oh, okay, I was going to use ahammer, you know or a
sledgehammer, and that's notwhat they need.
Angie Colee (44:55):
Yeah, I think that's the best thing that you
can do for another human,whether that's a client, whether
that's somebody that you'rehelping in this kind of
charitable sense that we'retalking about too, is to help
them find solutions forthemselves that make sense to
them, not to prescribe themsomething that you think will
fix them.
Robb Munger (45:11):
Oh, exactly.
Angie Colee (45:12):
It's like, even in marketing, when I have
prescribed solutions to people Ican tell now, in early days I
just thought that they were likeidiots.
Like why did you hire me if youaren't going to do what I say?
Because something I said isn'tresonating with them, or I
didn't communicate it well, orthey've tried that before and
they have some resistance and Ididn't dig deep enough into that
.
But like there's a reason thatthey're saying no and they're
(45:33):
experts in their own business,even though I'm an expert in
marketing.
Like okay, let's find anothersolution, we don't have to be
married to mine.
Robb Munger (45:40):
Yeah, and really creative, cool things show up
when you have that attitude.
Angie Colee (45:45):
Yes, yes, yes, oh my gosh.
I want to ask like 50 morequestions, but I want to be
respectful of your time too.
I know you've got a hard stop,so please tell us a little bit
more where we can learn aboutyou, about your mission, about
your businesses, all the details.
Robb Munger (46:00):
Go to exodusplaceorg.
That's our website.
And then I have a personalwebsite, robmungercom
R-O-B-B-M-U-N-G-E-Rcom, justkind of tells people a little
bit about what I do.
I do some coaching, consultingfor companies and individuals.
I'm big into culture because,like here at Exodus, it's
(46:25):
amazing.
Because, like here at Exodus,it's amazing, we up until just a
couple of weeks ago, we had nothad any physical altercations
for two years and so and it wasjust, it was actually a person
we had put out and they cameback and it was unfortunate.
But I believe in culture.
(46:45):
So I share with people of hey,if you want to help change your
culture of your organization,get ahold of me.
I love to help people that way.
And then culture for us hererecidivism rate, which is, you
know, when a guy gets, we dealwith only men here because of
our bathroom situation, but whena person gets let go of prison
(47:09):
release, they typically are backin prison almost 50% of the
time and our rate for recidivismis at 1% right now.
Angie Colee (47:19):
Wow, oh, that's awesome.
Robb Munger (47:21):
So we're totally crushing it and it comes down to
corporate culture, team culture, so I'm passionate on that.
Angie Colee (47:30):
Oh, I love that that shines through.
I'm going to make sure thatthere are clickable links in the
show notes so that everybodycan check you out, and thank you
so much for sharing this.
This was such a.
This is like a goodconversation from my heart today
.
Thank you.
Robb Munger (47:41):
Perfect.
Well, thank you, it wasabsolutely perfect.
I appreciate everything.
Well, thank you, it wasabsolutely perfect I appreciate
everything.
Angie Colee (47:49):
That's all for now.
If you want to keep thatkick-ass energy high, please
take a minute to share thisepisode with someone that might
need a high-octane dose of youCan Do it.
Don't forget to rate, reviewand subscribe to the Permission
to Kick-Ass podcast on ApplePodcasts, spotify and wherever
you stream your podcasts.
I'm your host, angie Coley, andI'm here rooting for you.
Thanks for listening and let'sgo kick some ass.
Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass, the show
that gives you a virtual seatat the bar for the real
conversations that happenbetween entrepreneurs.
I'm interviewing all kinds ofbusiness owners, from those just
a few years into freelancing toCEOs helming nine-figure
companies.
If you've ever worried thateveryone else just seems to get
it and you're missing somethingor messing things up, this show
(00:24):
is for you.
I'm your host, Angie Coley, andlet's get to it.
And welcome back to Permissionto Kick Ass.
With me today is my new friend,Rob Munger.
Say hi.
Robb Munger (00:37):
Hi Great to meet you.
Angie Colee (00:38):
Angie, it's great to meet you too.
I'm never going to forget howto pronounce your name because
you said Munger like hunger.
Robb Munger (00:45):
Amen Right.
Angie Colee (00:46):
And that's actually kind of related to what you do,
right.
Robb Munger (00:49):
That's right.
Angie Colee (00:50):
So tell us a little bit about it.
Robb Munger (00:51):
Well for Exodus Place.
We help the homeless.
We're a transitional housingfacility, we're not a rescue
mission.
So our thing is to help peoplethat are deciding they don't
want to be homeless anymore orthey're coming out of prison
jail.
They've decided at some pointin their life that, hey, this is
(01:15):
it and I want change.
Angie Colee (01:18):
That's such important work, what?
Robb Munger (01:21):
got you into that?
Well, I helped a homeless guy.
He said I'll work for food, andthis was back in 2007.
Put him to work.
I had the preconceivedprejudice notions that homeless
(01:42):
people are lazy was raised thathey, if you could pound nails or
sweep floors, you had a job.
And so I assumed they were justbeing lazy.
And then met Tim McCann andlearned that his lifestyle, what
had happened when he wasgrowing up, was a big impact on
(02:07):
him.
And this was back when if yousmoked pot, you got arrested.
So he ended up with a felonyand it just snowballed on him
and realized he was working formy company.
I own a real estate developmentcompany.
I still own that.
And then he was working for meat home and the guy was
(02:29):
brilliant.
He was extremely smart,hardworking, could figure things
out, was fun to work with andI'm like, okay.
So all my preconceptions wereabsolutely wrong and I put
myself out there.
Okay, because nobody wants tosay you're prejudiced.
But I think we're all a littleprejudiced, no matter what.
(02:52):
We're always prejudging peopleto be safe and protect ourselves
.
But just loved working withthis guy.
He started drinking about eightweeks later, connected him with
a rescue mission, ended upbeing on the board of directors
of the rescue mission.
(03:14):
The rescue mission it's one ofthe largest ones in the state of
Michigan ran into financialtrouble.
The board asked me to step inas a business person.
They said, hey, we don't need achristian pastor or somebody,
we need somebody that hashorsepower and can kick ass, you
know, um, and?
And I'm like, wait a second,I'm a country mouse, okay.
(03:36):
And I said you can do your job.
You know, keep, keep.
Obviously, keep doing whatyou're doing.
But we need somebody to rightthe ship.
And I did increase the P&Lprofit and loss by 6,400%.
They were at a point of havingto close the doors after about
50 years.
And so I thought, hey, I did mygood thing.
(04:01):
I helped Tim because Tim workedfor me for like eight weeks and
so I had a really goodconnection with Tim and then
helped the rescue mission and Ihad this building, exodus Place.
It was the old MichiganDepartment of Corrections
halfway house, so it's 38,000square feet.
(04:22):
We're the largest transitional,non-government transitional
housing facility in the state.
Actually, even government-wisewe're still the largest.
And I had this set to bedonated to the rescue mission to
do transitional housing.
And what ended up happening isthe rescue mission said hey, you
just got us out of the fire,we're in the skillet now.
(04:44):
Commission said hey, you justgot us out of the fire, we're in
the skillet now, just kind of,you know, licking our wounds.
After nine months of me turningthings around, we're going to
pass on this.
So I left.
I thought, hey, I did my goodGod thing, checked the boxes.
You know I'm going to heaven,you know, kind of you know type
of thing.
But that's really kind of whatI was thinking, because I'd
(05:06):
never done anything like that.
My wife and I would donate.
But I hated working fornonprofits because volunteering,
they weren't organized andeverything.
And I ended up after two weeksgoing out to dinner with my wife
and had a God moment.
All I can say is all of asudden it just hit me and I
(05:27):
looked at my wife.
I said I'm supposed to do thisproject and so I ended up
starting Exodus Place, actually15 years ago, in one day, so
July 2nd 2009.
So this is cool that I'm onthis.
The building was decimated, thefire suppression had burst
(05:50):
because we're in Michigan, so itfroze and the managing partner.
It was owned by a privateentity that leased it to the
state.
They were from Louisiana, theywinterized the regular plumbing,
but they didn't winterize thefire suppression, so everything
was flooded.
It smelled like mold mildew.
(06:11):
It had been closed up for twoyears and I opened it up with
four homeless guys and it was a$100 a month lease because I
agreed to pay the back taxes,which were about $300,000.
And I said you got to give mesome time and it took us about
(06:34):
eight years to get them all paidoff.
And in the state of Michigan,if you didn't pay, you know the
oldest bill they would auctionyour property.
So every year I'd go to the taxassessor and sit in his office
and say, hey, I got everything,but let's say 5,000 bucks, can
(06:57):
you, you know, bump it anotheryear?
And they bump it another yearand they bump in another year.
So it was absolutely crazy.
You talk about starting fromthe back of the pack and then
going back another mile.
That's about where I started.
When you know you get thatstarting line with four homeless
(07:19):
guys myself, 38,000 square footbuilding and 2009,.
Highest unemployment, highestforeclosure, highest bankruptcy,
and I go.
I'm going to take this projecton.
Angie Colee (07:34):
I'm all in.
I've never done this before.
Let's figure it out.
Robb Munger (07:37):
It was absolutely the dumbest, craziest thing I've
ever done in my life that wasprobably going to fail.
I mean I told people, I saidwe're probably most likely going
to fail.
This is absolutely.
I mean women, children, puppies, kittens, those are cute.
I mean you donate for those.
(07:57):
You go.
Hey, you want to donate forguys?
Not really.
Angie Colee (08:03):
That's so unfortunate.
Like everybody needs help fromtime to time and I remember the
stigma of this.
You know what, we're just goingto roll with it.
I was like I don't know whythis story is coming up.
But I know why this story iscoming up.
So when I was going to gradschool, I was living in Los
Angeles arguably a veryexpensive city, right, and at
one point I'm doing full-time,unpaid internships because
(08:27):
entertainment industry and I'mdoing classes on nights and
weekends and I'm running out ofmoney.
I just don't know what else todo.
So my parents advised me applyfor benefits.
You've been paying into thissince you were 14 years old.
There's nothing wrong withbeing on food stamps, it's just
temporary.
It's there to support you andso with that mindset, I went
into it like that's right.
(08:47):
I've been working since I was14.
I've paid a lot into thissystem.
It's okay for me to take itwhen I have a need and then just
to go back to work and keepreplenishing it, right?
Oh my gosh, the amount ofjudgment and nasty looks and
unsolicited commentary I gotwhenever I whipped out that EBT
card.
I felt so much shame for justdoing what I needed to do to
(09:11):
survive and I hated that.
It was like exactly like youmentioned at the beginning.
There was so much prejudice andprejudgment.
I had people that would commenton my car, that would comment
on my cell phone.
Everything is secondhand,everything is paid off.
I'm going to Ross and shoppingfor clothes.
La is an image conscious city.
I have to look the part, if Iwant to get the job, like can't
(09:34):
show up and just like rattyjeans because that's all I got.
Ain't nobody going to give me ajob, right?
But because people make theseassumptions just looking at your
situation from the outside, itwas so deeply uncomfortable and
so I'm very grateful for folkslike you for the experience that
I had too.
That one changed that perception, gave me an opportunity to stop
(09:54):
being judgy before I understoodwhat the entirety of the
situation was.
Two take that situation andactually go do something about
it.
Not just have the lesson, butactually go do something.
So you know you started ExodusPlace.
I volunteer that's my.
I do that kind of sporadically,but every time I tell people
when my world has becomeme-centric, when I am the center
(10:15):
of the universe and my problemsseem like the biggest things to
ever exist.
That's usually when I get alittle bird that says, hey, go
volunteer for a little bit, likehelp out some people that are
struggling with stuff.
That is way worse than what youwere going through right now.
Just remember you're not thecenter of it all.
That's always been a goodphilosophy for me.
Robb Munger (10:33):
Oh, I totally agree .
I mean and I admire you, I tryto.
I tell everybody, ask for help.
I'll have guys here that say,well, you don't ask for help,
and I go.
I have a kitchen manager, anurse, case managers, I have two
pastors, well, three.
I have a bookkeeper, I have aCPA and then in my personal I
(10:57):
have a private you know businessand in real estate development,
some other businesses and I go.
I have project managers.
How do I do everything if I doit all on my own?
When you need help, I don'tcare if it's food stamps, bridge
guard, we call them bridgeguards here.
You know housing assistance,cell phone assistance.
(11:18):
Take the assistance because youhave a mission, a goal.
You can take that and leverageup and become successful.
But if you say nope, nope, Igot it out of pride, you will
lose.
Yes, I mean you will always loseif you don't take the help.
Angie Colee (11:36):
Absolutely Well and I'm like this is where I have
kind of a bone to pick withAmerican exceptionalism, right.
I do love that this is a landof opportunity I do.
I am super grateful that I wasborn here and that I've had the
opportunities that I've had tojust build whatever I want to
build right.
There's definitely worse placesto be and also there are a lot
of societies where there is acommunity factor in place, where
(11:57):
somebody is sick and struggling.
You don't just leave them aloneto struggle and die on their
own because, oh well, havefigured out their stuff sooner,
like yeah, it's a lot ofjudgment in the united states.
Robb Munger (12:09):
I mean, we don't have, um, the family nucleus is
different here, uh, compared toindia, um, um, pakistan, uh,
israel, um, I mean, china, japan, the family nucleus really does
help each other a bit more thanthe US.
I just had a conversation froma person from Pakistan yesterday
(12:34):
and that was the discussion.
I appreciate that we'resupposed to, you know, get on
our feet and make it happen, butdoing it as a team boy, yeah,
and as a family nucleus, I mean,and I'm guilty of it, you know,
like with my kids, hey, get outthere, buzz tail.
(12:56):
But I'm softening up on that abit now.
Angie Colee (13:01):
Hey, like we all start where we start, and I
think that's the biggest.
One of the biggest points I tryto make on this show is like
there's no judgment.
If you are approaching asituation with judgment, you're
already shutting down anypossibility of there to be some
sort of growth and furtherdiscussion.
Texas was shut down when I wasyoung.
(13:26):
I grew up in South Texas, rightLike that was my.
I had a very us versus themmentality, very America, yeah,
texas.
That's just the way that I grewup.
And when you don't have anyother perspective, it's hard to
just like spontaneously developperspective, right, until you're
exposed to somebody else thatchallenges your worldview.
Now if I come to that challengeand go, you're wrong, like this
is what I know to be true Well,nothing is going to happen.
But if I come to that and I go,ok, well, I don't know what, I
(13:49):
don't know, let's see whathappens, oh, that's where
learning and growth takes placeand it's difficult and it's
uncomfortable and it suckssometimes, but it makes your
world so much bigger and betterfor it.
Robb Munger (14:02):
You're absolutely right.
I mean, hey, it's uncomfortablefor me to be interviewed on
podcast.
I mean, oh yeah, I mean I liketo just do my thing and just
keep working.
You know, I'm kind of thegeneration you just worker be,
you know, and Midwesterners areknown for that, and so this is
my, you know, area of expertise.
(14:25):
So you have it.
You know, you can't, you can'tprejudge.
I mean it just doesn't work.
If you go into it to see what'sgoing to show up and you have
good people around you, I meanthere's amazing things.
That's how I run all mybusinesses is.
You know, I just am looking forpeople, good people, and then
(14:50):
listen more than tell, and thenlisten more than tell.
It's amazing how much betterthings go than just relying on
my own talent and my ownknowledge.
Angie Colee (15:01):
Oh yes, oh yes.
Actually, I had a client thatcame to me recently with
something to that effect Like wehad done a project together and
I could tell that something wasoff and this person was not
happy, and so I came to thefinal call like, ok, tell me
what's up.
Right, obviously there's a partof me that's going.
This really sucks.
I want you to be happy.
I don't know what's going on.
(15:21):
But when I come to the call,it's like let's get to the
bottom of this.
I don't want you to leave thisfeeling unhappy, let's see if we
can fix it way.
So we go through.
I actually wound up offering acouple of extra calls on this
just to help figure these thingsout.
(15:41):
And when the engagement wasfinally finished, there's like a
conglomerate, an instance likeconglomeration of events, and
this person had wound up havinglike a photography publicity
shoot and the marketing projectthat they had done with me, and
then wound up coming back to meand thanking me and I don't say
all this to pat myself on theback, but like this was a
learning experience for me too.
(16:01):
They said, oh, I just realizedthat I was like so fixated on
controlling the how and theminutia that I didn't trust you.
I didn't trust thisphotographer publicity person to
do what I hired you to do.
And this whole experience hashelped me realize I've got a lot
of growth to do to be a betterclient.
And I said, hey, I appreciatethe fact that you are saying
(16:24):
that and also give yourselfgrace, because none of us comes
out of the gate knowing how tobe an excellent client.
Right, you were just doing thebest that you could and I'm glad
that I could help you have thatrealization and I'm glad that
we could get this projectwrapped up in a way that made
you happy, right.
Robb Munger (16:40):
That's critical.
I mean learning how to be agood client, be a good employer,
good boss.
People aren't objects, they'repeople and we need to treat them
as people, not objects.
Angie Colee (16:57):
Yes, that's so important.
I used to tell people all thetime I was the worst for a long
time, especially with mybackground in screenwriting and
Los Angeles and theentertainment industry.
I was writing little plays thatall of you guys were starring
in, Like I'm writing a part forAngie and I'm writing a part for
Rob, and stop.
You are not following thescript, Rob.
I need you to follow the script.
(17:19):
The day that I realized thatthis world is not Angie's just
movie and I am not the directorof the universe.
It was a humbling experienceand it has made my life a lot
easier now too.
Robb Munger (17:29):
Very true.
I think we all go through that.
I know I have very true.
Angie Colee (17:36):
I think we all go through that.
I know I have, oh yeah, I havelike word for word scripts of
like arguments in the shower andstuff like that, and then I
have to realize, oh right,they're not just going to play
the part that I wrote for them,so maybe I have to show up and
listen and be a human we needmore of that, angie I'm trying,
I'm doing my, my small part toto help us all open up to the
potential of there beingsomething different from what we
expect.
(17:57):
Speaking of different from whatwe expect, I mean you mentioned
this rundown building startingwith four guys, starting with
this enormous overhead.
You expected to close and forthis to not work, how did you
even?
Robb Munger (18:18):
work.
How, how did you even?
Um, I'm big into business plans.
I utilize a one-page plan so ithas a SWOT analysis so
strengths, weakness,opportunities and threats.
And then I'll have like aone-year plan, a 90-day plan, a
quarterly plan and then a 30-dayplan, and then I I do the theme
, um, branding, um, uh, specificgoals, what we stand for, and
(18:41):
so, um, really dig in that wayand that was probably the unique
thing.
Okay, I came from doingmulti-million dollar real estate
projects.
Now I have four homeless guysand two of them are crackheads
and two of them are alcoholicsand I had to teach them you know
(19:05):
how to read a business plan.
The reality is, we are going tofollow the business plan.
This is, you know, it's notword for word.
You know, kind of my earlierdays it was more micromanaged.
Now I'm macromanaged and so Itaught them all that.
And then I taught them assetallocation, because we didn't
(19:25):
have a lot of money, banksweren't doing lines of credits,
so I had to teach them assetallocation.
So I had to teach them assetallocation so we would look at
our needs.
Painting was a critical needbecause of all the humidity in
the building.
All the paint had like fallenoff the walls.
(19:49):
It flooded that much.
I mean it was like two to threefeet of flooding.
I mean the doors were holdingthe water in and so we had to
paint the whole building.
So I said, ok, asset allocationthis is assets we're going to
buy an asset which is paintwe're going to put on the wall,
(20:09):
and then we need to have asystem.
So that's how we got going isreally right from the business
plan.
And then I then started teachingthem that painting and running
a business is more than justpainting.
We have to be thinking of it ina global sense of how this is
(20:30):
going to affect the business.
So I was always analyzingeverything and it was fun.
I would get the guys analyzingit and they're like, oh so this
is how you run a business.
It's not just collecting money,spending money, there's a lot
(20:50):
more to it.
So we created systems foreverything.
But it was hard.
I mean, mean, we run a hybridsystem here.
So we, we get um, we call itmembership dues because it's a
program um, the men are goingthrough counseling, uh, medical
help.
Um, we have a liaison nursethat actually works with their
(21:14):
doctors, their nurses, and thenwe provide the food here.
So they pay about two-thirds ofthe cost here, and then we
raise one-third of the costthrough donations, and so really
(21:34):
kind of just kept working withthem with that, so that they
would see a plan in eachdepartment, and then each
department now runs itself oh,that's really cool.
Angie Colee (21:46):
Did they wind up like staying in and taking
charge of those departments, orhow did that work?
Robb Munger (21:51):
well, the goal was to to do that.
Unfortunately, the addictionissues uh became too strong.
Um, it was.
And dealing, I don't have any.
I have a donut addiction.
Okay, so I'm gonna call myself.
The guys laugh at me and theygo.
You know that's not addiction,I go.
(22:12):
Hey, if I eat one, one longjohn, I'm eating five more and a
sugar, sugar buzz.
Um, but in reality is I don'tknow what it's like for alcohol.
I'm not alcoholic, I've neverbeen one, and you know I don't
like pot, so I'm not, I don'tlike the effects of it, so I
(22:35):
don't experience all that.
And unfortunately the guysstarted drinking.
So one guy ended up drinkingand ended up stealing money from
us.
So he obviously got asked toleave.
So he obviously got asked toleave.
The next guy started doingheroin and got the other
(23:01):
individual that was an alcoholicinvolved with heroin and
unfortunately Neil passed awayfrom an overdose.
And then the, the fourth one,he, he started doing crack again
and he just knew, just like, Iknow I'm out of here, aren't I?
And I said yep.
(23:22):
So we, we set up a theme here.
We have three pillars.
So the first pillar is people,mission me.
So, um, it's easy to follow.
And, uh, the mission is it's ahand up, not a hand up.
So if a guy comes here and hesays I've had men come here and
(23:44):
they say you owe me becauseyou're a non-profit, I don't owe
you anything yeah.
Go to the rescue mission if youwant food, but this isn't.
This is.
We're going to work together.
So people first mission than me, and then the other is train,
(24:04):
develop and communicate.
One of the most critical thingswith homeless people and each
pillar comes to deal with peoplethat are struggling, so it's
not really even homeless peoplewe need to keep training and
developing a skill and we needto communicate.
And when you're in alcohol anddrug addiction or let's say
(24:28):
you're having a mental illnesssession because mental illness
isn't forever, I mean sometimesit's just like the flu we always
have to train, develop andcommunicate.
So you know, a professionalfootball player is not going to
(24:48):
be perfect.
He's going to make mistakes andso we just keep training and
developing the skill.
And then we have to communicate.
And alcohol and drugs reallyisolate.
You know it creates a silo.
So if you drink and you startthinking about it, the more you
drink, the more numb thecommunication gets.
(25:09):
You can say, well, I'm reallythe life of a party.
It is up until a certain pointof severe alcoholism and then
you start isolating and that's agood numbing effect.
So I had to teach people how tocommunicate.
So that really was a criticalthing is getting the guys to
(25:30):
communicate.
And then also in thecommunication, a lot of them had
been in a jail or a prison andwith the jail or prison they
were always talked at and theywere told what to do.
And so I had to change theircommunication style so that they
talked with me and we workedtogether.
(25:52):
They talked with me and weworked together.
That was a big breakthrough andthat's one of our key things
for success.
And then the last pillar is love, compassion and accountability.
So if a guy comes in, I'm goingto lead off with love, so I
want to show that person loveand then compassion, Because
(26:14):
when they've come in, they don'thave anything.
They've been kicked in theteeth, Some literally they're
they're looking for a safe haven.
So we, we really look at thatlove and compassion and that
nasty accountability.
I tell the guys it's, I love todrive fast, but when the police
(26:34):
officer pulls me over for going85 and it's in a 60 mile an
hour zone, he's not trying to bemean, it's just I'm going 25
miles an hour over the speedlimit and I get a ticket, and
that's just accountability.
It doesn't mean he hates me andso we have that's just
accountability.
It doesn't mean he hates me.
We have that here at Exodus.
(26:55):
We'll have somebody bring drugsor alcohol in the facility and
we go.
You get 24 hours out or you get48 hours out or seven days, or
you get a month out.
But this is a privilege to behere and we don't hate you.
Angie Colee (27:12):
But there's rules rules so yeah you got to make
different choices if you wantdifferent results, right?
You can't bring you can't bringwhat got you here, here to get
you to the next place, like andexpect you to change.
It doesn't work that way that'sjust as true in like our daily
life as it is in running abusiness.
I I found like this is on thelast call that I recorded we
(27:35):
talked about this being a kindof a constant journey out of
your comfort zone, because onceyou hit your goal, okay, well
then, now we've got to set thenext goal.
You don't really stagnate forlong if you're running an
effective business, in myexperience.
Okay, Now we've set the newgoal.
This is also outside of mycomfort zone.
Oh damn it.
I thought we were past this bynow.
(27:55):
Turns out no.
Robb Munger (27:57):
That's it.
But if you don't do that,you're not going to grow Exactly
.
Angie Colee (28:02):
Exactly and like I totally get it.
Growing is uncomfortable,facing mistakes that you've made
is uncomfortable.
Facing judgment and our owninternalized shame, like half of
the time.
I've come to realize,especially through these
conversations, the shame that wefeel is way more intense than
the shame that other people areactually putting on us Like they
(28:23):
might be thinking about us andpassing and going.
What is what is up with Angie?
Why is she doing this?
I'm so she'll come around,it'll be okay.
I'm just gonna distance myself,right?
That has happened before.
And then I'm over here going.
They're not talking to me.
I am the worst person ever.
I have clearly messed up, right.
Woe is me.
It's never as bad as it seems.
(28:43):
There's always a way out.
Even if it's hard, there'salways a way out.
Robb Munger (28:48):
End rant that's so true.
I mean, that's one big thingthat we work.
I don't.
We don't have a lot of um ruleshere.
A lot of people are surprised.
It's basically don't smoke, youknow, don't do drugs in the
building, don't drink in thebuilding and no violence.
Um, those are my three bigrules pretty basic rules for
(29:11):
life, I think yeah, and it's.
It's funny because they theywill say it's really easy to
work here and live here, andbecause we have a workforce
development program too, and wedon't know why it's working here
and it doesn't work outside.
You know why it wasn't workingand and.
(29:31):
But we also set a culture withthose three pillars that this is
how we're going to behave.
So, if a guy comes up and he'sgoing I need this, I need this,
I want this, and I go, wait asecond, we got that first pillar
.
What are you doing for somebodyelse?
Well, you got to understand.
(29:52):
I don't need to understandanything.
I understand that you arecentered around you and you
don't care about me.
You don't care about any of theother guys.
Well, you're not important.
I said great, I understand that.
So, guess what, since you'reprojecting, I'm not important.
(30:13):
The other guys are bums.
But you just got off the streetfrom camping, from being
homeless, and you're moreimportant than all of us, right,
yeah, and I go.
So how's it been working foryou?
Angie Colee (30:27):
well, nobody wants to help me I.
Robb Munger (30:30):
Well then, why don't you try it this way?
And I've had so much successwhere people go okay.
So one of the.
I don't have, like I said, manyrules.
One of the rules is if you walkinto Exodus Place, is we
introduce ourselves first to youBecause you're uncomfortable?
(30:52):
Yeah, so whether you're, let'ssay, a business person coming in
to a place that's holdinghomeless people that have gone
to jail, prison and everythingelse, or you're coming from the,
you know, deciding to get offthe streets, either way you're
nervous because we're people,and so come in.
(31:13):
Hey, hi, my name is Rob Munger.
What's yours?
You know what can I help youwith?
And all of a sudden you go.
Okay, oh, this person is givingme the impression they care
about me and I'm a person.
Small roles.
Angie Colee (31:31):
Yeah, I'm glad that you brought that up because I
feel like a lot of people feellike it's so much effort to care
and to quote or bastardize aquote from a movie that I really
love.
That's kind of corny.
It's called Ever After.
The prince, who's veryconceited and self-absorbed,
says I once thought that if Icared about anything, I'd have
(31:52):
to care about everything and I'dgo stark, raving mad.
It's not that big of anundertaking to care, and often
it starts with these littlethings, these tiny decisions.
Like I greet people because Iknow that this is uncomfortable,
I want them to feel welcomehere.
So totally different vibe forme to say hi, I'm Angie Coley,
welcome.
What brings you in today?
(32:13):
How can I help you?
For me, then, for me to be overhere not paying attention when
you walk in.
You have to go.
Hey, excuse me.
Hey, hey, hey, is this thing on?
Do you even see me?
And then I turn around allaggravated like can you give me
a minute?
Totally different vibe Tinytiny decision, tiny tiny action.
It's not caring abouteverything in the world and
(32:36):
being ground by it all, it'scaring just a little bit.
Robb Munger (32:39):
That's it.
We're a Christian-basedorganization, but we're a seeker
one.
So you can come in and not're aChristian-based organization,
but we're a seeker one.
So you can come in, not be aChristian.
There's no judgment, zero Lovethat Really mean that, but it's
(33:02):
just focused on that person.
I call those God appointmentsbecause you're showing somebody
love and compassion and theirday could be total crap and in
that moment that you're presentwith them, you go huh, you know
somebody cares.
Yeah, I mean we deal withpeople that kill themselves,
(33:26):
have suicide.
Yeah, I mean we deal withpeople that kill themselves,
have suicide and it's and boy, Ijust don't ever want to be that
person.
That's too busy for somebodythat's that has a stress.
Angie Colee (33:40):
And God appointments always show up when
I'm busy.
They love to challenge us,don't they?
Robb Munger (33:44):
Yeah, and then you go, oh, you know I'm really busy
.
And then I go, yep, what'sgoing on?
And I got to just stay, youknow, present with them, and
then everything works out, myschedule works out.
But that person knows I caredabout them.
(34:05):
At least somebody cared aboutthem.
Angie Colee (34:07):
Funny how that always works out, that like I
can't possibly help this person,I'm way too busy.
If I do this, I can't do that.
Drama, drama, drama, right, andI'm not saying that to you,
that's definitely me.
But if I do the thing, my soulis called to help people right.
And if I help the person,despite all my busyness, it
(34:27):
always, always, works out.
There has never been a time inmy life that it has failed to
work out when I followed myheart and helped the person.
Robb Munger (34:38):
You're exactly right and usually for me, like
with my business here, and thenfor-profit.
When I do that, I get a deeperrelationship with my customers.
Today I had two customers thattext me and they said thank you
(34:58):
for being who you are.
Angie Colee (35:01):
I love that.
That's really awesome.
Robb Munger (35:04):
I mean, I didn't prompt them, I was just and you
know there was, they need helpwith a couple of things, and but
it's.
You get better customers whenyou treat people better.
Angie Colee (35:21):
Yes, you get better everything when you treat
people better.
You get better employees, youget better partnerships.
You get everything is betterwhen you treat people, I think,
actually, that brings me back toa point that I wrote down
earlier that I wanted to circleback to, which was like.
You might have heard me chucklewhen you said to that man like
one of those tiny littledecisions to lean into the
control factor and be like, allright, but you don't get it, get
(35:50):
out, versus leaning into thecompassion of like and how's
that been working for you?
Talk about like.
That's an instance, guys, rightwhere you're slapping somebody
in the face.
Without having to slap them inthe face, you're confronting
them with the reality of theirdecisions.
You're confronting them withthe reality of their decisions
and that's often way moreintense and meaningful and
personal and like, going to leadthem to a learning than you
(36:13):
going.
Don't you see everything thatyou're doing wrong?
Let me show you theconsequences.
I just thought that wasbrilliant.
Robb Munger (36:21):
I'm still working on that because it's amazing,
because my intent is to do good.
And then let's just say I havea day that I react poorly
because we're human.
So you have a trigger that,emotionally, something happened
in my past that would trigger meto snap or not be as nice as
(36:42):
normal.
And that's just reality foreverybody.
There are some saints out there.
I'm not one of them.
So one of the things I ask toois like I'll hold a water bottle
and I go, hey, they'll explain.
You know why their way works sowell, let's say, giving me
(37:05):
excuses why I don't pay theirbills on time, why they can keep
drinking.
And I go tell you what, let me,if I drop this bottle or let go
of this bottle, is it going upor down?
And they go, well, obvious,it's going down.
I said so.
You've been an alcoholic to theextent that you've been
arrested numerous times.
(37:26):
You don't have a driver'slicense, so you think you can
drink a little bit.
So what if I just let go ofthis bottle a little bit?
Is it gonna?
What's it gonna do?
It must?
It's probably gonna hover, goup, and, and so I'll bring
(37:48):
examples like that to the menand they go.
It's that simple, isn't it I?
Angie Colee (37:55):
go.
Robb Munger (37:56):
I said there's some people that can drink.
I said I can drink, um, and Ican put it down.
Um, you're not wantable andit's just.
You know, got it.
You enjoy drinking, but do youenjoy the after effects?
I mean, I have guys thatthey've lost fingers, toes, legs
(38:21):
, oh yeah, diabetes.
The one things too.
And I love people that aretrying to help the homeless, but
don't give them a donut and I'ma donut-holic in recovery but
you know, they're out on thestreet and they get so many
high-carb donuts and they drinkand the sugar content and what
(38:45):
happens to their diabetes?
Most of them are diabetic, ahigh percentage.
I don't know the exactpercentage, so it's.
You know you have to know how tohelp people and so a lot of
times I'll tell you know, like avolunteer or somebody that
wants to help a homeless person,they say, hey, can you give me
(39:07):
some coaching?
And I ask them, ask the person,what they need, and the first
thing is money.
They're going to tell you toask again, ask again.
Okay, so you need money.
So what do you need money for?
(39:27):
So what are you going to dowith that item that you're going
to buy once?
Once you get the item and allof a sudden, a relationship
starts developing and then youget to find out what they really
need or what their goal is, andthen you can help them.
(39:48):
But and and I've I give money tothe homeless.
I have a few homeless guys Iknow that are, um, they're
permanently mentally ill andthey have some physical ailments
and they're just they're.
It's tough, so I'll give themmoney.
Uh, there's other people.
When I'm in different cities Iwill talk to them and I want to
(40:11):
go upstream a bit and see can Ihelp them more than just give
them money.
And I think we can do that forclients, for your for-profit,
and everything is go upstream,ask another question, um,
because so many times the answeris like three or four questions
(40:33):
away and we like that snapchat,um, text message, two, three
words, I got my answer.
Or google search, I got myanswer and I'm moving on.
And I think that's where thatrelationship comes in and that's
why I'm always pushing atExodus places, relationship
(40:56):
Cause the goal isn't just togive them housing.
You know people say, well, justgive them housing, I'll fix
everything.
That's the dumbest thing.
There's so many failures inthat whole system because people
want a relationship.
Angie Colee (41:16):
Yeah, I'm glad that you brought that up, because
one of the many places Ivolunteered in my time I was at
a crisis intervention centerbefore the pandemic happened,
and that's a mission that'sreally close to my heart,
because there are a lot ofpeople that are just kind of
suffering under abuse, right,and they're afraid and they
don't think they can get out andthey don't even begin to know.
(41:37):
I think one of the mostimpactful parts of my training
as a volunteer for those crisishotlines was the fact that we
had a two-day training.
It was very intense and one ofthe biggest takeaways that I had
from that was I can't prescribesomebody else's fix because, no
matter how many questions I askthem, I don't know everything
that they know.
(41:57):
I only know what they can tellme and sometimes, especially in
that kind of situation, theycan't tell me the truth.
It would put them in danger, soanything that I'm recommending
to them based on my limitedworldview could actually
endanger this person's life.
I don't have a fix for them.
They have a fix for them.
I can help them find the fix,but, just like you talked about,
(42:19):
this is us working together.
This is a hand up, not a handout.
So what can I do?
What do you need?
Do you need a place to staytonight?
Okay, let me make some phonecalls, see if I can find you a
bed.
Do you need an escort to ourbuilding?
Okay, let me see if I can callthe police and get this figured
out.
What do you need from me?
I need money.
Okay, let me put you in touchwith a couple of missions.
But, like, what's what's goingon?
(42:40):
Why do you need money?
Do you need a place to stay?
Are you hungry?
What's going on?
Walk me through that.
Right, it was, and it ties backto this exercise that we did.
We were all given envelopeswith different slips of paper
red, yellow and green and we allhad different amounts of red,
yellow and green papers and wewere given a scenario and
everybody had to make decisionsthat cost us little strips of
(43:02):
paper, kind of like spendingmoney and after a couple of
moves, a lot of people are outof paper, they're out of options
, they don't have anywhere elseto go and there are still moves
to be made and they're still indanger.
And it just it changed myperspective of how much I judged
other people for not knowingtheir situations.
We've all got differentcapacities and different
resources, and judgment is notthe way to fix that.
Robb Munger (43:26):
Amen, I love it.
I mean, I absolutely love itbecause that's the type of
training that we work withpeople here, because I sat with
a person when I was at therescue mission.
I had a very successful personcome in, very kind, super kind
guy.
He was giving one of ourhomeless guys.
(43:49):
He had just come in, he hadn'teaten in like probably five days
, he was hooked on crack andwhat he did was he was using the
money for his crack and feedinghis kids and finally there was
interventions.
And finally there wasinterventions.
This guy's eating and this verysuccessful person is telling
(44:11):
this person that's basicallystarving what he needed to do to
change his life.
And I watched that and I'm likeI understand the intent of the
well-to-do individual, but thatperson that's in need was in a
whole different spot and so whathe was talking about it was
(44:35):
like bringing a hammer when youneed a screwdriver, and we have
to ask them what tool do youneed?
You know, like I said, find outwhat they need and they'll
figure it out.
They'll say, hey, I need ascrewdriver.
Oh, okay, I was going to use ahammer, you know or a
sledgehammer, and that's notwhat they need.
Angie Colee (44:55):
Yeah, I think that's the best thing that you
can do for another human,whether that's a client, whether
that's somebody that you'rehelping in this kind of
charitable sense that we'retalking about too, is to help
them find solutions forthemselves that make sense to
them, not to prescribe themsomething that you think will
fix them.
Robb Munger (45:11):
Oh, exactly.
Angie Colee (45:12):
It's like, even in marketing, when I have
prescribed solutions to people Ican tell now, in early days I
just thought that they were likeidiots.
Like why did you hire me if youaren't going to do what I say?
Because something I said isn'tresonating with them, or I
didn't communicate it well, orthey've tried that before and
they have some resistance and Ididn't dig deep enough into that
.
But like there's a reason thatthey're saying no and they're
(45:33):
experts in their own business,even though I'm an expert in
marketing.
Like okay, let's find anothersolution, we don't have to be
married to mine.
Robb Munger (45:40):
Yeah, and really creative, cool things show up
when you have that attitude.
Angie Colee (45:45):
Yes, yes, yes, oh my gosh.
I want to ask like 50 morequestions, but I want to be
respectful of your time too.
I know you've got a hard stop,so please tell us a little bit
more where we can learn aboutyou, about your mission, about
your businesses, all the details.
Robb Munger (46:00):
Go to exodusplaceorg.
That's our website.
And then I have a personalwebsite, robmungercom
R-O-B-B-M-U-N-G-E-Rcom, justkind of tells people a little
bit about what I do.
I do some coaching, consultingfor companies and individuals.
I'm big into culture because,like here at Exodus, it's
(46:25):
amazing.
Because, like here at Exodus,it's amazing, we up until just a
couple of weeks ago, we had nothad any physical altercations
for two years and so and it wasjust, it was actually a person
we had put out and they cameback and it was unfortunate.
But I believe in culture.
(46:45):
So I share with people of hey,if you want to help change your
culture of your organization,get ahold of me.
I love to help people that way.
And then culture for us hererecidivism rate, which is, you
know, when a guy gets, we dealwith only men here because of
our bathroom situation, but whena person gets let go of prison
(47:09):
release, they typically are backin prison almost 50% of the
time and our rate for recidivismis at 1% right now.
Angie Colee (47:19):
Wow, oh, that's awesome.
Robb Munger (47:21):
So we're totally crushing it and it comes down to
corporate culture, team culture, so I'm passionate on that.
Angie Colee (47:30):
Oh, I love that that shines through.
I'm going to make sure thatthere are clickable links in the
show notes so that everybodycan check you out, and thank you
so much for sharing this.
This was such a.
This is like a goodconversation from my heart today
.
Thank you.
Robb Munger (47:41):
Perfect.
Well, thank you, it wasabsolutely perfect.
I appreciate everything.
Well, thank you, it wasabsolutely perfect I appreciate
everything.
Angie Colee (47:49):
That's all for now.
If you want to keep thatkick-ass energy high, please
take a minute to share thisepisode with someone that might
need a high-octane dose of youCan Do it.
Don't forget to rate, reviewand subscribe to the Permission
to Kick-Ass podcast on ApplePodcasts, spotify and wherever
you stream your podcasts.
I'm your host, angie Coley, andI'm here rooting for you.
Thanks for listening and let'sgo kick some ass.
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