August 14, 2024 • 46 mins
This episode with Dusti Arab was a wild ride through the ups and downs of entrepreneurship. We dove into the messy reality of building a business when you're not from a privileged background, and holy shit, does it get good. From stumbling into copywriting to rubbing elbows with celebs, Dusti's journey is a masterclass in saying "fuck it" and figuring it out as you go. If you've ever felt like an imposter in the business world, this conversation will make you feel right at home.
Can't-miss moments:
- Spoiler alert: there are no straight lines in entrepreneurship. So why do we keep bashing our heads and breaking our own hearts when things don't go as planned?
- Dusti's surprise encounter with Elon Musk's ex-wife and the culture shock that followed (and this will inspire you to confidently hold your own even when you feel out of your depth)...
- Is there an "intermediate" step between "I don't belong here" and "I totally belong here"? Dusti and I weigh in on making big leaps, especially when you don't have the experience or context...
- Falling apart or falling together? Dusti's "52 dates in 52 weeks" experiment, and the unexpected way she met her husband (talk about a plot twist!)...
- What if, and hear me out, ending a relationship didn't always have to be a terrible, traumatic experience? Dusti and I rant on breaking things off while things are going great (and why it works so well for ADHDers)...
Dusti's bio:
Dusti Arab is a fractional CMO and the founder of the reinvention co, a marketing consultancy specializing in working with personality-driven companies with small teams. Intense, fun, and relentlessly practical, Dusti understands the lives of small business owners are deeply intertwined with their businesses, and if their marketing is going to be sustainable, it can’t get in the way of why they do what they do. (And honestly? It should be fun so they actually want to do it.) She is the host of Referral Worthy, a podcast for small business owners ready to go from “best kept secret” to the go-to name in their niche.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angie Colee (00:03):
Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass, the show
that gives you a virtual seatat the bar for the real
conversations that happenbetween entrepreneurs.
I'm interviewing all kinds ofbusiness owners, from those just
a few years into freelancing toCEOs helming nine-figure
companies.
If you've ever worried thateveryone else just seems to get
it and you're missing somethingor messing things up, this show
(00:24):
is for you.
I'm your host, angie Coley, andlet's get to it.
Hey, and welcome back toPermission to Kick Ass.
I'm so excited for this one,please, everybody.
Welcome to the show my friendDusty Arab.
Why, hello, angie, and she'sgot the red lip color.
Like you match my hair with thelip color almost.
It's fantastic.
Dusti Arab (00:44):
Your hair always is fascinating and I'm obsessed
with your hair.
It always looks so good.
Angie Colee (00:49):
Thank you.
I was to tell my stylist thelast time.
I got a little bit bored and Iwent in and I said I'm ready for
something new, Like here's myinspiration picks.
Surprise me.
She's the one that came up withpurple and red hair, Of course,
and can't see me like pettingmy hair right now, but it's
fabulous Anyways.
Fabulous looks, fabulous hair,fabulous business.
Tell us all about it.
Dusti Arab (01:08):
Absolutely so.
I run the Reinvention Co.
We are a small marketingconsultancy.
I work primarily withpersonality-driven based
businesses here in the onlinespace, so that's a lot of
authors and people with smallteams, things like that.
So usually someone bringssomebody like me in if they just
(01:31):
got their book sold to a bigpublisher and they're like hey,
I know that Penguin Random Househas a little tiny, suck ass
marketing department that isn'tgoing to do anything for me, so
I'm going to hire somebody whodoes know what they're doing to
help me build out everything Ineed around the book so I can
actually make money and sell asmany books as possible when it
does launch.
Angie Colee (01:50):
Oh, that's so important these days.
I remember when I wrote my booklast year I was thinking so
much about do I want to go thetraditional route?
Do I want to go theself-published route?
Each one of these has its prosand cons, but then, when I
looked at it, at the end of theday, the big major con to the
traditional publishing route isthat most of them are like so
how many followers do you have?
What size audience are youbringing to this?
And I'm like, if all you'redoing for marketing is counting
(02:11):
on my audience, then I ought todo the damn thing my fucking
self.
Dusti Arab (02:15):
You know, and that is like I totally understand why
people do both and like andI've self-published books before
too.
I've self-published booksbefore too.
I've seen both sides of it forsure, and the truth is, no
matter which route you do,you're going to be doing all of
the marketing yourself, at leastat, like, the high levels, like
even.
I mean, I know somebody rightnow who got a massive deal and
(02:38):
is like primed, probably gonnahave a New York Times bestseller
, and they have had to invest somuch time and so much money in
order to make those thingshappen.
Like, really, the only thingthe publishing company has been
able to do for them is give thema handful of contacts and
additional people to potentiallyconsider asking for, like, a
(02:59):
quote for the book.
Angie Colee (03:01):
That's fantastic.
Yeah, that's.
That's one of those thingswhere I get a little bit bullish
and stubborn and be like I cando that myself.
Thank you very much and I willbe keeping all of the royalties
for my efforts.
I appreciate you well, and it'sfunny like I have this, uh,
like stack of notes, of course,that I keep while I'm asking
people and the one thing that Iwrote down from I have this
(03:23):
intake form for everybody thatbooks, a recording spot.
I said tell me about a setbackin your business and you wrote
which time.
Lmao.
I was like I know we have totalk about that, oh man.
Dusti Arab (03:36):
Well, I think it's just so important for people to
be honest about the fact thatentrepreneurship is not a
straight fucking line.
Angie Colee (03:42):
It just isn't.
Dusti Arab (03:43):
Oh, absolutely entrepreneurship is not a
straight fucking line.
It just isn't.
And for me, like I do not comefrom a traditional background,
like at all, I'm from the wrongside of the tracks.
My mom is still a bartender.
Like my kids have differentdads.
Like I mean, by all accounts, Ishould not be where I am at
today.
And even once I did enter theentrepreneurship space, it was a
(04:07):
lot of stop and go for a longtime because it was just so
different than anything I'd everexperienced.
I was working at a Starbuckswhen I started my first blog and
that was in 2010.
I was still, I was like in themiddle of college and I had just
found like the internet, sortof Like I'd had a live journal,
like when I was like in themiddle of college and I had just
found like the internet, sortof like I'd had a live journal
(04:28):
like when I was in high schooland things like that and like,
and I really liked that formatof like writing and I remember
at the time even my friendswould ask me they're like, who
are you writing that for?
Like, because they were allkind of writing to communicate
with each other and that was nothow I was using it, Like I use
it, like I was using it theexact same way that you know I
use Facebook now Like I'm I'musing it to like talk to people
(04:51):
and tell stories and like sortthrough all the nonsense that's
in my head 24 seven.
But when I, when I firststarted this blog, it was very
different and it had like it waslike peak blogger days and I
didn't really know that at thetime.
But when I, when I was readingsome other people's stuff,
(05:12):
they're like, yeah, you shoulddo this, Like this is a good
idea, and I was like, okay, fuckit, I'll do it.
And I took Leah Babauta's like ahundred dollar blogging class
and I had my first like viralpost two weeks later.
So I was pretty good at it.
I was 22.
So I went from like zero to20,000 subscribers, basically
overnight, and that wasterrifying, Let me tell you.
(05:34):
And I was like a mouthyshithead of a 22-year-old too.
Like I mean, aren't we all?
Angie Colee (05:42):
I'm nodding because hard same, absolutely.
Now I tell 22-year-olds Iremember when I knew everything,
oh yes, Absolutely, and I meanthis was the.
Dusti Arab (05:53):
I mean I think I was blogging like that for like six
months and really what happenedfor me was I realized that
maybe I wasn't the misfit thatI'd grown up thinking.
I was Like I'd grown up in thislike sleeper suburb community
and it was kind of shitty and Ialways just stuck out like a
sore thumb like my whole life.
And so when I discovered thisother weird little enclave of
(06:15):
people on the internet, it wasso exciting.
It was so exciting and Iremember I was talking with Ash
Ambridge like six months afterI'd started this and I was like
okaybridge, like six monthsafter I had started this, and I
was like okay, so like how do Imake money?
And she looked at me and shewas like dude, you should be a
copywriter, you're a greatwriter.
And I was like what the fuck isa copywriter?
(06:35):
So I went and Googled it andthen I stuck out my shingle and
I started copywriting for $12 anhour for somebody I would find
out like a year later was a 19year old stripper in Texas and
that chick paid my rent for likesix months.
Angie Colee (06:51):
Nice, nice.
Dusti Arab (06:52):
Everybody gets started somewhere.
Angie Colee (06:54):
Yeah, exactly, I think every, every copywriter I
know, which, by the way, foranybody who's new to the show or
new to marketing, copywritersare people that basically
specialize in advertising andsales writing.
Dusty and I both have a verylong background as copywriters
before we went on to becomeother things like podcast hosts.
Right, both of us have a show.
Every copywriter I know hasfallen into it.
Dusti Arab (07:16):
And that's kind of how it works.
Like you want to make moneywriting and like originally,
like I really liked that memoirstyle, like that kind of posting
, but I couldn't see like aclear way to make that an
audience and like I just it wasalso new for me.
I'm like I know how to exchangea service for money and that
made sense to me at the time andso, like again, it wasn't, it
(07:40):
wasn't a straight line there.
So I started copywriting.
Eventually I picked up otherskills in marketing and
eventually, like these days, I'moperating at like a you know, a
fractional CMO is what I callmyself, but I'm like a jack of
all trades marketing person whocan come in and run your team
(08:01):
and hire and you know and manage, manage the whole damn thing so
that you don't have to worry sohard about making the internet
print money for you every timeyou need to.
Like you need a thought leaderand you need a thought partner
in that.
Angie Colee (08:14):
Yes, absolutely.
Well, I'm curious this is kindof going back to what you talked
about when you said you knowI'm from the wrong side of the
tracks.
I don't have this traditionalbackgrounds right.
Did you ever have anyhesitation in starting your own
business, or like an instinct tohide who you were, or did you
always embrace that?
Dusti Arab (08:34):
That's a good question.
I mean, I don't think I couldhide who I am if I wanted to.
I'm very mouthy, but I didexperience a lot of culture
shock.
There was one situation inparticular where I figured out,
like, within, like that firstyear, like, if I volunteered for
(08:56):
events, I got to go, eventhough there was no way I could
pay for them at the time.
So I got to go to the veryfirst world domination summit
that Chris Gullibow hosted herein Portland, and because I knew
a guy on the planning committeeand like and all those people
are still here and they're allstill friends and it was such a
great opportunity for me to meetso many people who I still know
(09:17):
today.
And that particular conference,like six weeks later there was
another one happening here inPortland, and so I also had the
benefit of like being in like alittle hotspot for like for that
particular niche.
And at this other event I metthis woman who we just hit it
(09:39):
right off.
She was so cool and so funnyand we were, you know, talking
about feminism and the way thatwe see, you know it, changing
the way we interact on theinternet and the way that
movements are made, and all ofthat.
And then at dinner I heard somepeople like her name was
Justine.
I didn't think anything aboutit.
I'd never heard of her before,I didn't know who she was.
(10:01):
But at dinner that nighteverybody at the table was
talking about her and everyonewas gossiping about her and I
was so confused until I wenthome and Googled her because her
name is Justine Musk and shewas just profiled in Glamour
Magazine for her divorce withElon.
And that was kind of where Istarted being like, oh, we are
(10:27):
not the same and not in a badway.
We continued that friendshipfor a long time, as long as she
stayed in the space.
We were still hanging out andall of that.
But yeah, I remember beingpregnant with my son, Tristan.
This was in 2012.
And I was in LA for Blog World.
I had gone with $25 in my bankaccount.
(10:48):
I had like the only reason Iwent was because the ticket
there was so cheap, but I was95% sure I could pick up a
client if I went down there andsaw people in person.
And I was right.
I actually left with threeclients, because that's what I
do at live events like that andone of the things I was going to
do down there was go havebreakfast with Justine, and we
did, and then she drove me tolike a train station afterwards
(11:14):
because I was flying at a longbeach and we were waiting for
the valet, which I had neverdone before.
That was culture shock enough.
Then, when we got in the car,we were sitting there and she's
looking for stuff and she's likeI'm sorry, this isn't actually
my car, I never drive this thingand I was like, oh yeah, it
must be for one of the boys.
She's like yeah, Because thekids all have their own nanny
(11:34):
and their own car.
And like, oh no, this like itwas just like, thinking about it
was just nuts to me at the time.
And like, and that cultureshock has definitely colored the
way that I've engaged in onlinespaces.
I know that I have made so manysocial faux pas, like, and now
like I mean I'm 36 and it reallytook me probably that first 10
(11:58):
years in business to kind oflearn how to navigate that space
and, like you know, learn,learn how to deal with triggers
and stuff in that particularcontext.
Because like for me, capitalismand entrepreneurship, like all
this stuff, like it's the onlyway out in America, Like I don't
.
I do not see another way unlessyou come from a privileged
(12:19):
background.
So there was never any questionfor me that I was going to be
in this space, but it took a lotfor me to learn how to pass and
be able to engage in the space.
Angie Colee (12:30):
Oh, yes, it's interesting that you mentioned
passing, because I feel like Ihad a similar culture shock,
although I think I hit it fairlywell for a while.
What happened to me was theopposite, and I've told this
story on the podcast before, but, like I was always very
buttoned down.
To me was the opposite, andI've told this story on the
podcast before, but like I wasalways very buttoned down, I
would.
I would be snarky and likeonline forum posts every once in
a while, but I really held backmy personality until I went to
(12:51):
an event and similar thing.
Like I would do whatever ittook to get to an event because
I had an instinct that my magicwas in person.
And it turns out that's right.
Like I don't do well coldcalling, cold pitching I've
tried every single tactic outthere under the sun.
Nothing works better for methan being in the room with
people that I get to meet andlike, hey, tell me what you're
working on.
Oh cool, have you ever triedabout that?
Like that's how therelationships develop.
(13:13):
Anyway, I'm at this bar, have acouple of drinks, get a little
bit of a buzz going.
I still don't know how I toldit, how this came about.
I wound up telling a story aboutgetting into a mosh pit fight
and literally watch people leanin and go wait, what, who is
this Angie?
And that was when I started tokind of like come out of the
shell, so to speak, really justembrace who I was.
(13:35):
And then you mentioned, youknow, this culture shock.
Same thing I'm the eldest ofthree kids.
My mom was a single mom and myparents were both truck drivers,
so we didn't grow up havingmuch.
I've had several of thoseexperiences over the course of
building my business, wheresomebody invites me into a room
and I have to stop myself fromsaying like holy fuck, I had no
(13:57):
idea stuff like this existed.
But I just I take a deep breath, I go, wow, I soak it all in
and then I go back and journalabout how I'm manifesting this
shit for myself, because now,like, I used to take it as kind
of like personally offensivethat other people had stuff that
I wanted.
Right, that was unevolved Angie.
And now I can see it for whatit is perception, expansion,
(14:18):
showing me what otherpossibilities are out there for
me to explore and hey, maybe Ican figure out a way to get
there or a different path.
Dusti Arab (14:26):
Who knows, oh God, I love that so much and that's
always like.
That's really how I felt aboutit too Like for me, I've never
really I don't know, I won't saythat I've never been like a
jealous person, but usually,like, I've always seen that,
like when when I got thatfeeling it was because I wanted
(14:48):
something and that was always soclarifying.
And then, like, when I startedto get into personal development
work, having like the researchsupport that I was like, oh,
like other people already knowthis stuff and like one of the
people for me actually in thespace that really shifted things
for me in that regard was TanyaLee.
She's a life coach and herbrand is called French Kiss Life
(15:11):
and it's very like.
I mean, she's blonde and prettyand a little frou-frou and but
she is just the nicest, kindestperson and like and it's because
she grew up in a fuckingtrailer park in the South and
like then became like a like acardiac nurse before she was a
life coach, so she had all ofthis like background before.
(15:33):
Like she started changingthings and stepping into this.
Even the way she, she spokelike changed drastically and I
found that so inspiring and likeand it ended up like I was.
I was on the end of like areally bad breakup in 2015.
And well, I got.
I got divorced in 2015,rebounded with a dude for a year
(15:55):
and then, like it, just youknow, total fuck boy blew up at
the end.
And so I was flying out to LAto see a friend who was just I
was like I need to just get awayfor a while and she was like
guess what?
We're going to fuckingDisneyland dusty.
Angie Colee (16:08):
And it was my first time in Disneyland.
Dusti Arab (16:11):
So I knew you would like that.
So good friend takes me toDisneyland.
But while I'm in the airport,I'm like every time I'm in the
airport I always end up buyingmore plane tickets because I'm
just like, oh, I love being here, I love being here, I love
going places.
And I found cheap ass ticketsto Paris and I fucking impulse
(16:32):
bought them on the spot and Iended up getting to go and see
Tanya there a couple monthslater and she was like I know
that this, like some of this, islike oh a lot, like you're
killing it, but I know that thisis like.
I know what it's like to gothrough that kind of a
transition.
And so she took me to theHemingway bar at the Ritz and
(16:54):
we've like went and like drankchampagne at the counter there
and we went out to thisincredible restaurant.
She introduced me to otherpeople in the area and it was
really that experience, I think,more than anything else, that I
was like, oh, like this is likeI don't, I don't not belong
here, and like that was really abig transition point there for
(17:18):
me.
Angie Colee (17:19):
I love that distinction that I don't not
belong here.
For me, I love that distinctionthat I don't not belong here.
It's not quite the same as Ibelong here, but it's also not
the definitive I don't belonghere.
I don't know if what I'm sayingmakes any sense, but that made
perfect sense to me when yousaid yeah it's like the body
positivity movement, um like.
Dusti Arab (17:36):
It's like you're you're going for neutrality
first because that's what'saccessible.
It's like I don't.
I don't hate the body I'm in.
Like I feel okay in this bodyin this moment.
I don't have to love it all thetime, I don't have to like.
You know, maybe I'm not readyto love myself yet, but if I can
get to that point, I can seewhere maybe I can someday.
Angie Colee (17:58):
Oh yes, how many of us have like failed or given up
or deemed ourselves failuresbecause we couldn't flip things
on and off like a light switch.
I mean I say this likechuckling with all the love I
have to me and to everybodythat's listening to like we have
these ginormous expectations ofourselves to do these massive
personality overhauls overnight,eliminate habits, replace them
(18:21):
with better habits, and like ifI don't wake up in the morning
having lost 50 pounds, suddenlyI'm a failure.
Dusti Arab (18:28):
Right.
Angie Colee (18:30):
Oh, and I love you telling that story about Tanya,
like knowing other people whohave made that journey and that
transition, One of my big iconsfor dealing with my own money
issues and right Anybody who'snew to business or in the early
stages.
Nobody tells you how much ofthis is personal development and
just coming face to face withyour own bullshit.
Dusti Arab (18:47):
Literally all of it is personal development.
Angie Colee (18:51):
Yep, coming face to face with my own money issues
and this belief that money wasevil, like people that had money
were bad, that kept me stuckfor a long time.
I started to fixate on who do Iknow who is out there in the
world that has money and doesgood, much like you said with
this coach, tanya, like this isa kind person.
(19:13):
This is the person that is thesame backstage as they are front
stage right and they have moneyand they do good in the world.
Dolly Parton, y'all I say ourLord and Savior, dolly Parton,
all the time to anybody who willlisten and do not be smirch her
name in front of me.
Woe be unto you if you do that.
But like, look at this, shedidn't give a shit what you
(19:33):
think about her.
She does her own style, her owndamn way, does not care what
you think.
She's out there givingbajillions of dollars to causes
that she cares about and she'skind to everybody.
I've seen so many videos of herlike holding hands with people,
singing along with people, like, uh, so that's my model now.
Like I'm gonna be so filthyfucking rich that I can be just
(19:54):
like my idol, dolly parton thatis the best life goal, maybe
ever.
Dusti Arab (20:02):
Yeah, that's like you can't go wrong with that,
like her, her nonprofit thatdistributes books to children
under five.
I was just reading a stat aboutit and, as of right now, one in
five kids in the United Statesget books from Dolly Parton.
Angie Colee (20:18):
That's so incredible.
That's so amazing.
I love that foundation.
I can't remember she wrote thesweetest little thing on her
website when she explains whatthat charity is for.
But the part that I do rememberwas that her father grew up
illiterate and she just wantedto show him that, like reading
is great, and she wanted to paytribute to him, and it was just
(20:38):
this beautiful reason why shewanted to get books into the
hands of as many kids aspossible, and it doesn't matter
who you come from or what yourbackground is.
Kids zero to five get booksevery month from Dolly Parton
Period, the end, the best, thebest.
All right, so we talked alittle bit about falling into
copywriting, how you've stumbledinto this world with all these
big celebrities, which is reallycool.
(21:00):
How did you get from copy toreinvention company?
Dusti Arab (21:04):
Well, originally when I started writing copy like
I had started with about pagesbecause nobody likes writing
about themselves, like it sucks.
There's nothing that is moreconfronting immediately than
having to go write 150 word bioabout yourself, let alone a
fucking about page, andespecially if you're not super
(21:26):
established, so you haven't hadit done before, so it just
brings up all of your shit.
And so initially when I wasdoing that like every time I
would get on the phone withsomebody they'd end up in tears
and I was like you know, I wasin my early twenties and I was
like, oh, I don't know how tohold space for this.
Angie Colee (21:46):
But it was very like Are you supposed to be
recording right now?
I don't know.
Dusti Arab (21:50):
Right, oh my God, and it was very.
I was like, okay, so this haslike a little bit of a therapy
thing going on here which, likeI had just discovered therapy
myself.
I was like, okay, so I can onlysee what's going on here, but
what would end up happening islike I'd end up doing these
pages for people on theirwebsites, or I do some blogs or
whatever, and they'd be like, ohGod, it would just be so great
(22:12):
if you could just like put itwhere it goes.
And I thought about it and Iwas like, I mean, I did that for
my website so in theory atleast, I could probably do it
for yours.
Do you want to pay me moremoney?
And they did.
So I went and I learned basicweb design and I learned well
(22:34):
and realistically.
Angie Colee (22:34):
I'd been learning basic web design even in high
school Like remember the angelfire days, God I used to do that
shit for fun all the time.
Dusti Arab (22:37):
Like I built so many websites on there and all about
my different like weird littleniche things that I was into all
the time like textbook,undiagnosed ADHD right there
Like that was what I did for fun.
It was like I info dumped onall these micro sites like good
grief.
If I would have known what awiki was back in the day, oh
(22:59):
shit, I would have lost myfucking mind.
But so it started there and justlike wanting to be able to do
more for the people who werealready paying me, and so it was
like there and at some point,like I remember, I was having
trouble getting enoughcopywriting work, Like it just I
(23:20):
felt like I had expanded as farin my little niche as I could,
given like what I had going onin my life, and I ended up in
like picking up some like OBMtype work.
So if you're not in theindustry, online business
managers, they basically runeverything behind the scenes.
And because I had a marketingbrain, I was really good at it.
(23:42):
I was really good at it.
So I could just step into thatright-hand woman role right away
and I was pretty comfortablethere.
And at some point I realizedall of these people want all of
the same things.
I'm seeing these patternseverywhere.
So in 2016, I started my firstagency.
I'm seeing these patternseverywhere.
(24:03):
So in 2016, I started my firstagency and it started as just me
and my friend who was inoperations and she was coming
from a corporate background, andI was like, girl, I have these
like 12 people who are willingto pay me like thousands of
dollars a month, but I cannotkeep all of them, Like I cannot
keep track of all of this.
I need systems.
I need somebody else to be myfucking brain, Like I need
(24:24):
somebody else to do for me whatI'm doing for all of them,
basically.
And so we did that and I madeso many mistakes.
Good God, Um, my God loved myfriend.
She like we are still friends.
It took me forever to pay heroff after that agency failed
because it did Like we made it acouple of years and I just I
(24:49):
couldn't keep up with it.
And there were.
There were other factors atplay there too, Like part of why
I had so many clients wasbecause they were all from the
same MLM and during the electionyear, when I came out as, like,
pro-Hillary, all of a sudden Ihad a lot of clients drop off,
all but one, all but one, andthat was the beginning of the
(25:11):
end there.
So I had to let lots of peoplego, and I always try to, even
when I was dating.
I have a policy of leavingthings better than I found them.
So for clients that I couldn'tcontinue to take care of if I
had a copywriter or a designerwho I thought they could, they
could use.
I just farmed everybody out,basically and and kind of
(25:34):
started over like that was a Imean end of 2016,.
That was a rough year for me,like between the breakup and you
know, getting finally gettingin some traveling and all of
that.
Like it was just such a bigexpansion year for me in so many
ways that, like I, I justneeded to create some space
there.
Honestly.
Angie Colee (25:56):
Oh man, yeah, that sounds like.
It sounds like such an upheavalyear, and this is the thing
that's coming to me and tell meif it's accurate for you.
The thing that pops into mymind is, like all the
opportunity that comes inupheaval, when everything falls
to shit, there's usually somenugget of gold that's buried
among all the shit that youusually have to dig for and you
don't want to dig because it'sbeen a shitty year.
(26:18):
Okay, I don't want to doanymore, but there's something
there that can be rebuilt intosomething even better if we have
the courage and the bravery tosee the opportunity instead of
like I'm shit, this is shit, I'ma failure.
Woe is me.
Dusti Arab (26:32):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And it was like I knew thatthat year was going to be a lot
of it, so I said yes to lots ofthings that I wouldn't have
otherwise.
It's like I mean, I went toParis for 10 days by myself.
I did meet up with some folksthere that I knew, but I
remember at the time peoplebeing like you're so brave, I'm
like I'm going to a major city.
(26:54):
I'm like I don't feel like it'sthat brave, it's not that big a
deal, don't read into it toomuch, but it was life-changing.
It really really was, and itwas such an incredible growth
experience and it helped lay theway for everything else that
you know kind of came after that.
So I floated in and out of somelike more traditional employment
(27:15):
for for a minute there, I meanreally like I.
I met my partner now husbandthat next summer in 2017.
There and, like between thenand like COVID, I bounced around
with traditional employment inaddition to my freelancing and
still doing a lot of what I wasdoing online, and that was
(27:38):
really the right call for me.
I wanted to get some moretraditional experience and I
mean as traditional as being aVP of marketing at a cannabis
company can be, but I got tospend other people's money to
hire and get good at hiring andfor running these larger
projects, and so I just got toplay in a bunch of different
arenas that I didn't get topreviously.
(28:00):
And I'm so glad that I did,because when I did come back in
2020, I mean, I I think I had afull client load within a week
of lockdown.
It took no time for me to juststep back into it and yeah, and
that just kind of kicked offeverything else.
Angie Colee (28:20):
I love that, and there's a couple of things that,
like, I've been taking furiousnotes this entire time.
There are a couple of thingsthat I want to highlight.
One take opportunities right,and I actually read a post in a
in a copywriter group justearlier today where somebody
said one of the things that Idid that held myself back for
for such a long time without merealizing it was, I was so
deathly paranoid of somebodytrying to take advantage of me
(28:42):
and giving away free work that Iclosed off my mind to any
potential opportunities andgoing all the way back to when
you talked about volunteeringfor some of these conferences
and going to things, puttingyourself out there, right,
that's not somebody takingadvantage of you because you
volunteered for free.
That's you doing what you haveto do to get your foot in the
door and serve yourself fromthat buffet.
(29:03):
Right, there's that big heapingtable full of all the good
stuff.
I'm gonna get in there and getsome, right.
So I love that.
I also love that you talk aboutmaking mistakes, like and going
in house, because those aresome recurring themes over the
course of the show of like.
Well, what if I fuck up?
What if I try this big thingand it fails.
Welcome to entrepreneurship.
You're going to try big things.
(29:23):
You're going to try littlethings.
They're going to fail andyou're going to bounce back, and
it's okay.
We're a little bit rubber, it'sokay.
Going in-house is also okay.
It doesn't make you any less ofan entrepreneur that you took a
job and you fed your family andyou kept a roof over your head
and you did what you needed todo.
I actually think it's a supersmart way to get good,
(29:44):
especially if you're pivotingLike I need a new skill set.
I'm going to go get somebody topay me to get good at this
thing.
That's how.
Dusti Arab (29:49):
I got good at copywriting.
I don't know why more peopledon't do that Like that God.
I actually remember seeing apanel during that first year at
World Domination Summit and Imean, and I was still really
young, so like I felt, like Istill was in that phase where,
like I knew people who weredoing internships and
apprenticeships and all thatstuff too.
(30:10):
So like I get, when people arewho are more established and are
like at a certain age, likedon't wanna do that stuff as
much or it's not as appealing, Icompletely understand that.
However, I was right in themiddle of that and I remember it
was a panel and it was JonathanFields and Pam Slim and I think
somebody else, and I remembersomebody in the audience just
(30:32):
asked some asshat fuckingquestion because this was peak.
You know, tim Ferriss, fourhour work week.
It's like how can I get peopleto pay me to do X, y and Z?
can I get people to pay me to doX, y and Z and Pam says go get
a job, and just like in thatvoice, in that tone, and her and
(30:54):
Jonathan were just like,seriously, just go get a fucking
job, like it's not that big ofa deal, and then you'll have the
answers you're looking for Plusexperience, like obviously,
like there's nothing wrong withletting people pay you, in
whatever capacity that lookslike.
Angie Colee (31:05):
Oh yes, and especially for creatives, like
creatives, who are trying to dobusiness and you're trying to
sell your services to otherbusiness owners.
Nothing is going to clarifythis more than actually working
for somebody and understandinghow what you do fits into their
business.
I've worked with graphicdesigners, photographers
especially copywriters who thinkit's all about the stuff, it's
(31:27):
all about the words, it's allabout the story, it's all about
the photos.
No, it's not.
That is a piece of the overallpuzzle, and until you wrap your
head around how that fits intosomebody else's business, you're
constantly going to bewondering why this is so hard.
So going in house and seeinghow you fit into the overall
puzzle and like what you can doto amplify things, what what you
(31:48):
do that might double thingsright, it's going to give you
such saleable experience.
Dusti Arab (31:57):
Absolutely, absolutely and and honestly
that's actually so.
The way that I've structured myservices these days is almost
like that.
Like it really is.
Like like I am not a full-timeperson you can bring in, but I'm
so fast that you don't reallyneed a full-time person most of
(32:17):
the time for these smaller andwhen I say small, most of the
companies I work for are betweenlike two and 10 million.
So that's like where it makessense to have like a fractional
CMO.
And when I come in here I'm likepart of what I do for people is
like if we're working togetherat this level, then I want to
have, I want my hands dirty.
(32:39):
Like I want to be in the in themuck.
Like I don't want to feel likea hands-off consultant.
Like I mean and sometimes thathas value like where you have
somebody who's an outside voiceand like and I'll come in and do
that for like a VIP day orsomething.
But where I feel like I'm themost effective is when I can
integrate with a team you know,cut the fat, hire new folks and
(33:00):
really create these cohesivemarketing teams and campaigns.
So in some cases I will workmyself out of a job and that's
great.
Like I mean that means thatI've gotten the company to a
level that they do need somebodywho's full-time in-house, which
is incredible, and I love beingable to operate in that role.
But I really like these leaner,smaller teams like that,
(33:23):
because they are recovery, likeyou know.
There's more flexibility, weget to move faster and you get
to know people, and that reallyis important to me, even in a
fully remote role like this.
Angie Colee (33:36):
Oh man, that's fabulous too, and it ties back
into another point that I wantedto make that you said was
brilliant.
Like, how do I get people topay me?
How do I do more for thesepeople that are already paying
me?
And this seems perfect, likeyou used that experience to get
you to a piece that you love.
Help them grow, help them getthe right people in place and
(33:57):
then peace out, my job is doneRight.
I've met so many people on theentrepreneur thing.
Like how do I get in with thesepeople for like ever, and I'm
like, I'm with the crowd.
That's like a little bit ad, alot adhd.
I don't want to be here forever.
I want to get you to goodenough.
And then, hey, like, if wecontinue working together
(34:17):
throughout the years ondifferent projects, absolutely,
like, I need to keep the smartfresh.
That's what makes my magic work.
Dusti Arab (34:25):
Yeah, it's true, and especially in marketing, like
for anything, marketing liketangent like you need that, like
you need fresh blood, you needto have fresh perspectives and
stuff Like there's.
So I have one client who I'vebeen with their team for like a
year and a half and I knew fromthe moment I signed on that was
probably like an 18 month tothree year contract and I'm
(34:46):
already seeing now where, likeeither this author, this you
know this author is going toneed to write and sell another
book here or in another sixmonths.
It may not make sense for me tostay on with the current model
because we've already optimizedeverything we can optimize.
They're not launching newproducts, so like, unless there
is some kind of an activationpoint, I don't need to be there
and there's nothing wrong withthat, like it wouldn't be like
(35:08):
me leaving because something'sgone wrong or whatever.
But I just have no interest inworking on the same boring ass
thing over and over and overagain.
And I love their programs.
I've taken their programs, likeit's so good, it's such good
content, but I've already doneit.
So like I'm looking forsomething you know, like I want
that spark too for me, like Iwant to be able to fall in love
(35:30):
with your business and yourproject.
And that, does you know?
That means we gotta, we gottalike move it along once in a
while.
Angie Colee (35:37):
Thank you for saying that and for saying that
in such a just, uniquely dustyway, because I think that
there's a lot of fear aroundrelationships ending and that it
always has to be a bad thing.
Why can't it be a graduation,instead of like, oh shit, now we
can't work together and I needto get another client right?
It doesn't always have to bethis bad thing when a
relationship ends.
(35:57):
Sometimes it just ends becauseyou both got what you wanted out
of it.
I actually remember I hired alife coach Hi, brian, if you're
listening to this and work withhim for about two and a half
years, and I remember on ourlast call we were getting to the
end of our I think he did likethree or six month packages.
We were on one of the very lastcalls and he gets on, he goes.
So what do you want to work ontoday?
(36:18):
And I was like I don't know, Idon't really have anything, and
he goes.
Nothing came up for you thisweek and I was like, yeah, I
mean I had a couple of things,but I had the tools and I did
this and I did that and I'mfeeling pretty good, I'm feeling
pretty proud of myself.
So, like we chit-chatted for alittle bit.
When we got to the end of thecall and we started talking
about does it make sense for usneeded?
Like I think I'm really feelinggood, I feel strong, um, just
(36:48):
evidenced by this call, the factthat I didn't really have
anything to talk about.
I was able to handle all theemotional meltdowns myself and
come out better for it.
So like, thank you, I feel like.
I graduated coaching.
Dusti Arab (37:00):
And that's incredible.
Like and it doesn't mean youwon't go back in the future or
that you won't work with anothercoach in the future or on
something specific, but that'sexactly how I feel about it too,
and like I mean for beingsomeone who's a marketer and has
been in this weird littlecorner of the internet for like
a long time, at this point, likeI am a hard sell.
I hardly buy anything fromanybody and if I do buy
(37:26):
something, it's because I'vebeen watching you for years and
I've vetted you with likemultiple of your clients.
Like it's I mean it's it'sridiculous honestly for like the
level of purchase that thatI'll still do this with, but
like that's.
that's the kind of buyer I am.
Angie Colee (37:43):
It's so funny that you say that.
I'm actually honestly theopposite buyer, and you actually
experienced this last year whenyou and our friend Hillary
decided to throw thiscollaboration cruise and I had
always wanted to go on a Virgincruise and y'all basically said
like hey, come have fun with us,we'll work on your business.
And I was like that's it.
I mean how to?
(38:04):
And I mean there is somebackground vetting.
You and I met when I wastraveling on the road.
I'd known Hillary for a while,so, like it wasn't you know, I'm
just seeing strangers on theinternet saying come on a cruise
, build your business.
There is a little bit ofselling that's happened in the
background all this time.
But like y'all said here's theoffer and I went yep.
Dusti Arab (38:24):
Well, and that's that is my favorite kind of
thing to offer, like when it'ssomething that like, and we
wanted it to be just like theeasiest, yes, possible.
So Hillary and I hosted acollaboration cruise on a Virgin
voyage and we took like 10people and we went and talked
business for a couple of daysand were spoiled, rotten on a
cruise.
And it was amazing because weknew exactly what we wanted
(38:50):
there.
We wanted it to be so easy toput on, we wanted all the
details taken care of for us andbecause, like anyone who's been
in entrepreneurial circlesknows that, like at events, the
most valuable part about any ofthose events and we've kind of
talked about this on this callis what's happening on the sides
, those conversations that arehappening in the wings.
(39:10):
That's where the magic is.
So, for something like this,like it was like Disneyland on a
boat I mean, I guess they havethat already, but that's true,
it was better.
Angie Colee (39:22):
Honestly, uh, at the risk of sounding like an
angry old auntie, uh, no, kids,that was great.
Um, the the Seaview terrace.
I literally slept one night inthe hammock out there on the
seat.
Lest this devolve into acommercial for a Virgin Cruises
hey, richard, call me.
Um, I loved that experience.
It was such a good refresher onand gave me so much perspective
(39:45):
and introduced me to so manycool people.
Like, ah, I don't know whereI'm going with that tangent
either, but like just lettingyou know if, if Dusty or I
offers some sort of experientialthing to work on your business,
I think you should jump on itbecause it's usually pretty fun.
So, um, there was another thing.
Actually, this kind of tiesinto what I was saying with the
boat.
Uh, sometimes you got to justsay yes and figure shit out, and
(40:07):
that sounds like exactly whatyou have done for most of your
career.
Can you speak to that a littlemore?
Dusti Arab (40:12):
oh man, yeah, I have god.
When I read I only read year ofyes, like two years ago, and as
soon as I did I was like, oh,me and shonda man, like I am, I
am feeling this and like, andshe's got like other other stuff
going on for sure in in thatbook.
But that idea of activelychoosing to put your biases
(40:35):
aside and not your preferencesnecessarily, but like your, your
preconceived notions, I guessis what I'm trying to say
putting the preconceived notionsaside and trying more things.
So, like that year after thatbreakup, I was like, okay, I've
been a serial monogamous mywhole life.
I have to learn how to date.
So I'm a doofus.
(40:56):
So I decided to turn it into achallenge and it's a half
written book on my hard driveright now and I was going to do
52 dates in 52 weeks and that'show I was going to stay single,
how I was going to learn to dateand, like you know, we'll just.
We'll just figure it out.
It'd be a fun little writingproject to do on the side while
I'm running a business andraising children and doing all
(41:17):
the other shit that I was doing.
What a good idea.
And then I realized I was a hotgirl on the internet and I did
way more than 52 dates because Ithought it was hilarious.
But, god, that year, though,like the, by the time I had
gotten to like the next May.
So I'd almost completed my yearand I had said yes to all sorts
(41:40):
of people you know for datesand stuff who I wouldn't have
given a second consideration tobefore, and, generally speaking,
what I found was like myinstincts are good, I didn't
need to do those things.
But one of the last ones that Isaid yes to was this guy who I
had seen in a bar the yearbefore and we had all ended up
(42:00):
at the same table because we hada mutual friend and I was still
dating fuckboy at the time, andwe were, all you know, hanging
out.
It's karaoke bar, you get it.
And this dude, like at onepoint, throws his arm around my
waist.
It was like whew, and myboyfriend got all like blah and
like marched us out.
I'm like whatever.
So when he showed up on Tinder,I was like, oh, boyfriend would
(42:28):
have hated this.
Swipe, right, let's go.
So we hung out for like sixweeks and had a great time.
He was super, super cool and hetook me to this 4th of July
party and I met all of my people, including my future husband,
there, and so, like it was justlike as soon as I'd walked in
that room, I was like I alreadyknew that like our shelf life
had pretty much run its course,but we were still kind of
hanging out and having a nicetime.
(42:49):
But as soon as I walked in thatroom, I was like, okay, I have
to figure out how to make surethat he can't get rid of me, so
I have to make friends with allof the women in this room right
now.
And up marches this girl andshe sticks out her hand.
She's like hi, I'm Kirsten,like Biersten, and next weekend
(43:09):
I am running her bacheloretteparty and the two of them are
getting married Nice.
So it was, everything works outin the end.
She's still Biersten in myphone and Brad's not so bad
either.
I got his big dumb face on agiant stick and we're going to
make it a totem for marchingaround New York so we don't lose
any of our party.
Angie Colee (43:30):
That is fantastic.
Yes See, sometimes things arehappening for you, even when it
seems like everything is fallingapart and it's not going the
way that you want.
And that doesn't even soundlike a falling apart story, that
sounds like a falling togetherstory.
But so often we get fixated onlike this is not going the way I
want it.
Like you could have easilytaken another mindset to that of
(43:51):
like oh, another guy that'sonly lasting like six weeks,
what is I know?
I said 52 dates in 52 weeks,but like what is wrong with me?
That this is not working andyou didn't take that tactic and
it worked out.
So, like faith in yourself, mydarlings, if you're in that
rough growth stage, if you areunder $50,000 a year and you're
like what the fuck?
Get a job, it's okay.
(44:12):
Or don't get a job, it's okay.
If you're in the 5 million plusrange, get a dusty, don't get a
dusty, figure stuff out, it'sokay.
You can say yes, you can do thedamn thing.
Welcome to this bizarre wildride of entrepreneurship where
we can do whatever the fuck wewant.
Permission to kick ass granted.
Dusti Arab (44:32):
Amen.
Angie Colee (44:33):
That feels like the perfect spot to just like wrap
on.
So tell us a little bit moreabout you and your business.
Thank you for being such anincredible guest.
Where can we learn more?
Dusti Arab (44:42):
Totally, so you can come learn more about me and
what I do at thereinventionco.
I also have a podcast calledReferral Worthy.
You can find it on the samesite and anywhere you listen to
your podcasts.
It is mostly focused onbuilding a referral worthy
business and everything thatgoes into that.
So those are the two things Iam going to seed that I am going
(45:07):
to be running another businessmaking retreat here.
It's not until April of 2025.
I'm going to be taking a groupof women to France and if
anyone's interested in joiningme, we're in the preliminary
planning stages.
So now's a good time to reachout.
Nice, nice, I was like.
Angie Colee (45:22):
Well, of course, we're in the preliminary
planning stages, so now's a goodtime to reach out.
Nice, nice, I was like well, ofcourse we're staring into
cameras right now, but I'm likeshe's making pointed eye contact
at me.
We're going to do this.
Thank you so much for beingwith us on this show.
This is incredible.
I'm glad I got to see your faceand thank you.
That's all for now.
If you want to keep thatkick-ass energy high, please
(45:44):
take a minute to share thisepisode with someone that might
need a high-octane dose of youCan Do it.
Don't forget to rate, reviewand subscribe to the Permission
to Kick-Ass podcast on ApplePodcasts, spotify and wherever
you stream your podcasts.
I'm your host, angie Coley, andI'm here rooting for you.
Thanks for listening and let'sgo kick some ass.
Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass, the show
that gives you a virtual seatat the bar for the real
conversations that happenbetween entrepreneurs.
I'm interviewing all kinds ofbusiness owners, from those just
a few years into freelancing toCEOs helming nine-figure
companies.
If you've ever worried thateveryone else just seems to get
it and you're missing somethingor messing things up, this show
(00:24):
is for you.
I'm your host, angie Coley, andlet's get to it.
Hey, and welcome back toPermission to Kick Ass.
I'm so excited for this one,please, everybody.
Welcome to the show my friendDusty Arab.
Why, hello, angie, and she'sgot the red lip color.
Like you match my hair with thelip color almost.
It's fantastic.
Dusti Arab (00:44):
Your hair always is fascinating and I'm obsessed
with your hair.
It always looks so good.
Angie Colee (00:49):
Thank you.
I was to tell my stylist thelast time.
I got a little bit bored and Iwent in and I said I'm ready for
something new, Like here's myinspiration picks.
Surprise me.
She's the one that came up withpurple and red hair, Of course,
and can't see me like pettingmy hair right now, but it's
fabulous Anyways.
Fabulous looks, fabulous hair,fabulous business.
Tell us all about it.
Dusti Arab (01:08):
Absolutely so.
I run the Reinvention Co.
We are a small marketingconsultancy.
I work primarily withpersonality-driven based
businesses here in the onlinespace, so that's a lot of
authors and people with smallteams, things like that.
So usually someone bringssomebody like me in if they just
(01:31):
got their book sold to a bigpublisher and they're like hey,
I know that Penguin Random Househas a little tiny, suck ass
marketing department that isn'tgoing to do anything for me, so
I'm going to hire somebody whodoes know what they're doing to
help me build out everything Ineed around the book so I can
actually make money and sell asmany books as possible when it
does launch.
Angie Colee (01:50):
Oh, that's so important these days.
I remember when I wrote my booklast year I was thinking so
much about do I want to go thetraditional route?
Do I want to go theself-published route?
Each one of these has its prosand cons, but then, when I
looked at it, at the end of theday, the big major con to the
traditional publishing route isthat most of them are like so
how many followers do you have?
What size audience are youbringing to this?
And I'm like, if all you'redoing for marketing is counting
(02:11):
on my audience, then I ought todo the damn thing my fucking
self.
Dusti Arab (02:15):
You know, and that is like I totally understand why
people do both and like andI've self-published books before
too.
I've self-published booksbefore too.
I've seen both sides of it forsure, and the truth is, no
matter which route you do,you're going to be doing all of
the marketing yourself, at leastat, like, the high levels, like
even.
I mean, I know somebody rightnow who got a massive deal and
(02:38):
is like primed, probably gonnahave a New York Times bestseller
, and they have had to invest somuch time and so much money in
order to make those thingshappen.
Like, really, the only thingthe publishing company has been
able to do for them is give thema handful of contacts and
additional people to potentiallyconsider asking for, like, a
(02:59):
quote for the book.
Angie Colee (03:01):
That's fantastic.
Yeah, that's.
That's one of those thingswhere I get a little bit bullish
and stubborn and be like I cando that myself.
Thank you very much and I willbe keeping all of the royalties
for my efforts.
I appreciate you well, and it'sfunny like I have this, uh,
like stack of notes, of course,that I keep while I'm asking
people and the one thing that Iwrote down from I have this
(03:23):
intake form for everybody thatbooks, a recording spot.
I said tell me about a setbackin your business and you wrote
which time.
Lmao.
I was like I know we have totalk about that, oh man.
Dusti Arab (03:36):
Well, I think it's just so important for people to
be honest about the fact thatentrepreneurship is not a
straight fucking line.
Angie Colee (03:42):
It just isn't.
Dusti Arab (03:43):
Oh, absolutely entrepreneurship is not a
straight fucking line.
It just isn't.
And for me, like I do not comefrom a traditional background,
like at all, I'm from the wrongside of the tracks.
My mom is still a bartender.
Like my kids have differentdads.
Like I mean, by all accounts, Ishould not be where I am at
today.
And even once I did enter theentrepreneurship space, it was a
(04:07):
lot of stop and go for a longtime because it was just so
different than anything I'd everexperienced.
I was working at a Starbuckswhen I started my first blog and
that was in 2010.
I was still, I was like in themiddle of college and I had just
found like the internet, sortof Like I'd had a live journal,
like when I was like in themiddle of college and I had just
found like the internet, sortof like I'd had a live journal
(04:28):
like when I was in high schooland things like that and like,
and I really liked that formatof like writing and I remember
at the time even my friendswould ask me they're like, who
are you writing that for?
Like, because they were allkind of writing to communicate
with each other and that was nothow I was using it, Like I use
it, like I was using it theexact same way that you know I
use Facebook now Like I'm I'musing it to like talk to people
(04:51):
and tell stories and like sortthrough all the nonsense that's
in my head 24 seven.
But when I, when I firststarted this blog, it was very
different and it had like it waslike peak blogger days and I
didn't really know that at thetime.
But when I, when I was readingsome other people's stuff,
(05:12):
they're like, yeah, you shoulddo this, Like this is a good
idea, and I was like, okay, fuckit, I'll do it.
And I took Leah Babauta's like ahundred dollar blogging class
and I had my first like viralpost two weeks later.
So I was pretty good at it.
I was 22.
So I went from like zero to20,000 subscribers, basically
overnight, and that wasterrifying, Let me tell you.
(05:34):
And I was like a mouthyshithead of a 22-year-old too.
Like I mean, aren't we all?
Angie Colee (05:42):
I'm nodding because hard same, absolutely.
Now I tell 22-year-olds Iremember when I knew everything,
oh yes, Absolutely, and I meanthis was the.
Dusti Arab (05:53):
I mean I think I was blogging like that for like six
months and really what happenedfor me was I realized that
maybe I wasn't the misfit thatI'd grown up thinking.
I was Like I'd grown up in thislike sleeper suburb community
and it was kind of shitty and Ialways just stuck out like a
sore thumb like my whole life.
And so when I discovered thisother weird little enclave of
(06:15):
people on the internet, it wasso exciting.
It was so exciting and Iremember I was talking with Ash
Ambridge like six months afterI'd started this and I was like
okaybridge, like six monthsafter I had started this, and I
was like okay, so like how do Imake money?
And she looked at me and shewas like dude, you should be a
copywriter, you're a greatwriter.
And I was like what the fuck isa copywriter?
(06:35):
So I went and Googled it andthen I stuck out my shingle and
I started copywriting for $12 anhour for somebody I would find
out like a year later was a 19year old stripper in Texas and
that chick paid my rent for likesix months.
Angie Colee (06:51):
Nice, nice.
Dusti Arab (06:52):
Everybody gets started somewhere.
Angie Colee (06:54):
Yeah, exactly, I think every, every copywriter I
know, which, by the way, foranybody who's new to the show or
new to marketing, copywritersare people that basically
specialize in advertising andsales writing.
Dusty and I both have a verylong background as copywriters
before we went on to becomeother things like podcast hosts.
Right, both of us have a show.
Every copywriter I know hasfallen into it.
Dusti Arab (07:16):
And that's kind of how it works.
Like you want to make moneywriting and like originally,
like I really liked that memoirstyle, like that kind of posting
, but I couldn't see like aclear way to make that an
audience and like I just it wasalso new for me.
I'm like I know how to exchangea service for money and that
made sense to me at the time andso, like again, it wasn't, it
(07:40):
wasn't a straight line there.
So I started copywriting.
Eventually I picked up otherskills in marketing and
eventually, like these days, I'moperating at like a you know, a
fractional CMO is what I callmyself, but I'm like a jack of
all trades marketing person whocan come in and run your team
(08:01):
and hire and you know and manage, manage the whole damn thing so
that you don't have to worry sohard about making the internet
print money for you every timeyou need to.
Like you need a thought leaderand you need a thought partner
in that.
Angie Colee (08:14):
Yes, absolutely.
Well, I'm curious this is kindof going back to what you talked
about when you said you knowI'm from the wrong side of the
tracks.
I don't have this traditionalbackgrounds right.
Did you ever have anyhesitation in starting your own
business, or like an instinct tohide who you were, or did you
always embrace that?
Dusti Arab (08:34):
That's a good question.
I mean, I don't think I couldhide who I am if I wanted to.
I'm very mouthy, but I didexperience a lot of culture
shock.
There was one situation inparticular where I figured out,
like, within, like that firstyear, like, if I volunteered for
(08:56):
events, I got to go, eventhough there was no way I could
pay for them at the time.
So I got to go to the veryfirst world domination summit
that Chris Gullibow hosted herein Portland, and because I knew
a guy on the planning committeeand like and all those people
are still here and they're allstill friends and it was such a
great opportunity for me to meetso many people who I still know
(09:17):
today.
And that particular conference,like six weeks later there was
another one happening here inPortland, and so I also had the
benefit of like being in like alittle hotspot for like for that
particular niche.
And at this other event I metthis woman who we just hit it
(09:39):
right off.
She was so cool and so funnyand we were, you know, talking
about feminism and the way thatwe see, you know it, changing
the way we interact on theinternet and the way that
movements are made, and all ofthat.
And then at dinner I heard somepeople like her name was
Justine.
I didn't think anything aboutit.
I'd never heard of her before,I didn't know who she was.
(10:01):
But at dinner that nighteverybody at the table was
talking about her and everyonewas gossiping about her and I
was so confused until I wenthome and Googled her because her
name is Justine Musk and shewas just profiled in Glamour
Magazine for her divorce withElon.
And that was kind of where Istarted being like, oh, we are
(10:27):
not the same and not in a badway.
We continued that friendshipfor a long time, as long as she
stayed in the space.
We were still hanging out andall of that.
But yeah, I remember beingpregnant with my son, Tristan.
This was in 2012.
And I was in LA for Blog World.
I had gone with $25 in my bankaccount.
(10:48):
I had like the only reason Iwent was because the ticket
there was so cheap, but I was95% sure I could pick up a
client if I went down there andsaw people in person.
And I was right.
I actually left with threeclients, because that's what I
do at live events like that andone of the things I was going to
do down there was go havebreakfast with Justine, and we
did, and then she drove me tolike a train station afterwards
(11:14):
because I was flying at a longbeach and we were waiting for
the valet, which I had neverdone before.
That was culture shock enough.
Then, when we got in the car,we were sitting there and she's
looking for stuff and she's likeI'm sorry, this isn't actually
my car, I never drive this thingand I was like, oh yeah, it
must be for one of the boys.
She's like yeah, Because thekids all have their own nanny
(11:34):
and their own car.
And like, oh no, this like itwas just like, thinking about it
was just nuts to me at the time.
And like, and that cultureshock has definitely colored the
way that I've engaged in onlinespaces.
I know that I have made so manysocial faux pas, like, and now
like I mean I'm 36 and it reallytook me probably that first 10
(11:58):
years in business to kind oflearn how to navigate that space
and, like you know, learn,learn how to deal with triggers
and stuff in that particularcontext.
Because like for me, capitalismand entrepreneurship, like all
this stuff, like it's the onlyway out in America, Like I don't
.
I do not see another way unlessyou come from a privileged
(12:19):
background.
So there was never any questionfor me that I was going to be
in this space, but it took a lotfor me to learn how to pass and
be able to engage in the space.
Angie Colee (12:30):
Oh, yes, it's interesting that you mentioned
passing, because I feel like Ihad a similar culture shock,
although I think I hit it fairlywell for a while.
What happened to me was theopposite, and I've told this
story on the podcast before, but, like I was always very
buttoned down.
To me was the opposite, andI've told this story on the
podcast before, but like I wasalways very buttoned down, I
would.
I would be snarky and likeonline forum posts every once in
a while, but I really held backmy personality until I went to
(12:51):
an event and similar thing.
Like I would do whatever ittook to get to an event because
I had an instinct that my magicwas in person.
And it turns out that's right.
Like I don't do well coldcalling, cold pitching I've
tried every single tactic outthere under the sun.
Nothing works better for methan being in the room with
people that I get to meet andlike, hey, tell me what you're
working on.
Oh cool, have you ever triedabout that?
Like that's how therelationships develop.
(13:13):
Anyway, I'm at this bar, have acouple of drinks, get a little
bit of a buzz going.
I still don't know how I toldit, how this came about.
I wound up telling a story aboutgetting into a mosh pit fight
and literally watch people leanin and go wait, what, who is
this Angie?
And that was when I started tokind of like come out of the
shell, so to speak, really justembrace who I was.
(13:35):
And then you mentioned, youknow, this culture shock.
Same thing I'm the eldest ofthree kids.
My mom was a single mom and myparents were both truck drivers,
so we didn't grow up havingmuch.
I've had several of thoseexperiences over the course of
building my business, wheresomebody invites me into a room
and I have to stop myself fromsaying like holy fuck, I had no
(13:57):
idea stuff like this existed.
But I just I take a deep breath, I go, wow, I soak it all in
and then I go back and journalabout how I'm manifesting this
shit for myself, because now,like, I used to take it as kind
of like personally offensivethat other people had stuff that
I wanted.
Right, that was unevolved Angie.
And now I can see it for whatit is perception, expansion,
(14:18):
showing me what otherpossibilities are out there for
me to explore and hey, maybe Ican figure out a way to get
there or a different path.
Dusti Arab (14:26):
Who knows, oh God, I love that so much and that's
always like.
That's really how I felt aboutit too Like for me, I've never
really I don't know, I won't saythat I've never been like a
jealous person, but usually,like, I've always seen that,
like when when I got thatfeeling it was because I wanted
(14:48):
something and that was always soclarifying.
And then, like, when I startedto get into personal development
work, having like the researchsupport that I was like, oh,
like other people already knowthis stuff and like one of the
people for me actually in thespace that really shifted things
for me in that regard was TanyaLee.
She's a life coach and herbrand is called French Kiss Life
(15:11):
and it's very like.
I mean, she's blonde and prettyand a little frou-frou and but
she is just the nicest, kindestperson and like and it's because
she grew up in a fuckingtrailer park in the South and
like then became like a like acardiac nurse before she was a
life coach, so she had all ofthis like background before.
(15:33):
Like she started changingthings and stepping into this.
Even the way she, she spokelike changed drastically and I
found that so inspiring and likeand it ended up like I was.
I was on the end of like areally bad breakup in 2015.
And well, I got.
I got divorced in 2015,rebounded with a dude for a year
(15:55):
and then, like it, just youknow, total fuck boy blew up at
the end.
And so I was flying out to LAto see a friend who was just I
was like I need to just get awayfor a while and she was like
guess what?
We're going to fuckingDisneyland dusty.
Angie Colee (16:08):
And it was my first time in Disneyland.
Dusti Arab (16:11):
So I knew you would like that.
So good friend takes me toDisneyland.
But while I'm in the airport,I'm like every time I'm in the
airport I always end up buyingmore plane tickets because I'm
just like, oh, I love being here, I love being here, I love
going places.
And I found cheap ass ticketsto Paris and I fucking impulse
(16:32):
bought them on the spot and Iended up getting to go and see
Tanya there a couple monthslater and she was like I know
that this, like some of this, islike oh a lot, like you're
killing it, but I know that thisis like.
I know what it's like to gothrough that kind of a
transition.
And so she took me to theHemingway bar at the Ritz and
(16:54):
we've like went and like drankchampagne at the counter there
and we went out to thisincredible restaurant.
She introduced me to otherpeople in the area and it was
really that experience, I think,more than anything else, that I
was like, oh, like this is likeI don't, I don't not belong
here, and like that was really abig transition point there for
(17:18):
me.
Angie Colee (17:19):
I love that distinction that I don't not
belong here.
For me, I love that distinctionthat I don't not belong here.
It's not quite the same as Ibelong here, but it's also not
the definitive I don't belonghere.
I don't know if what I'm sayingmakes any sense, but that made
perfect sense to me when yousaid yeah it's like the body
positivity movement, um like.
Dusti Arab (17:36):
It's like you're you're going for neutrality
first because that's what'saccessible.
It's like I don't.
I don't hate the body I'm in.
Like I feel okay in this bodyin this moment.
I don't have to love it all thetime, I don't have to like.
You know, maybe I'm not readyto love myself yet, but if I can
get to that point, I can seewhere maybe I can someday.
Angie Colee (17:58):
Oh yes, how many of us have like failed or given up
or deemed ourselves failuresbecause we couldn't flip things
on and off like a light switch.
I mean I say this likechuckling with all the love I
have to me and to everybodythat's listening to like we have
these ginormous expectations ofourselves to do these massive
personality overhauls overnight,eliminate habits, replace them
(18:21):
with better habits, and like ifI don't wake up in the morning
having lost 50 pounds, suddenlyI'm a failure.
Dusti Arab (18:28):
Right.
Angie Colee (18:30):
Oh, and I love you telling that story about Tanya,
like knowing other people whohave made that journey and that
transition, One of my big iconsfor dealing with my own money
issues and right Anybody who'snew to business or in the early
stages.
Nobody tells you how much ofthis is personal development and
just coming face to face withyour own bullshit.
Dusti Arab (18:47):
Literally all of it is personal development.
Angie Colee (18:51):
Yep, coming face to face with my own money issues
and this belief that money wasevil, like people that had money
were bad, that kept me stuckfor a long time.
I started to fixate on who do Iknow who is out there in the
world that has money and doesgood, much like you said with
this coach, tanya, like this isa kind person.
(19:13):
This is the person that is thesame backstage as they are front
stage right and they have moneyand they do good in the world.
Dolly Parton, y'all I say ourLord and Savior, dolly Parton,
all the time to anybody who willlisten and do not be smirch her
name in front of me.
Woe be unto you if you do that.
But like, look at this, shedidn't give a shit what you
(19:33):
think about her.
She does her own style, her owndamn way, does not care what
you think.
She's out there givingbajillions of dollars to causes
that she cares about and she'skind to everybody.
I've seen so many videos of herlike holding hands with people,
singing along with people, like, uh, so that's my model now.
Like I'm gonna be so filthyfucking rich that I can be just
(19:54):
like my idol, dolly parton thatis the best life goal, maybe
ever.
Dusti Arab (20:02):
Yeah, that's like you can't go wrong with that,
like her, her nonprofit thatdistributes books to children
under five.
I was just reading a stat aboutit and, as of right now, one in
five kids in the United Statesget books from Dolly Parton.
Angie Colee (20:18):
That's so incredible.
That's so amazing.
I love that foundation.
I can't remember she wrote thesweetest little thing on her
website when she explains whatthat charity is for.
But the part that I do rememberwas that her father grew up
illiterate and she just wantedto show him that, like reading
is great, and she wanted to paytribute to him, and it was just
(20:38):
this beautiful reason why shewanted to get books into the
hands of as many kids aspossible, and it doesn't matter
who you come from or what yourbackground is.
Kids zero to five get booksevery month from Dolly Parton
Period, the end, the best, thebest.
All right, so we talked alittle bit about falling into
copywriting, how you've stumbledinto this world with all these
big celebrities, which is reallycool.
(21:00):
How did you get from copy toreinvention company?
Dusti Arab (21:04):
Well, originally when I started writing copy like
I had started with about pagesbecause nobody likes writing
about themselves, like it sucks.
There's nothing that is moreconfronting immediately than
having to go write 150 word bioabout yourself, let alone a
fucking about page, andespecially if you're not super
(21:26):
established, so you haven't hadit done before, so it just
brings up all of your shit.
And so initially when I wasdoing that like every time I
would get on the phone withsomebody they'd end up in tears
and I was like you know, I wasin my early twenties and I was
like, oh, I don't know how tohold space for this.
Angie Colee (21:46):
But it was very like Are you supposed to be
recording right now?
I don't know.
Dusti Arab (21:50):
Right, oh my God, and it was very.
I was like, okay, so this haslike a little bit of a therapy
thing going on here which, likeI had just discovered therapy
myself.
I was like, okay, so I can onlysee what's going on here, but
what would end up happening islike I'd end up doing these
pages for people on theirwebsites, or I do some blogs or
whatever, and they'd be like, ohGod, it would just be so great
(22:12):
if you could just like put itwhere it goes.
And I thought about it and Iwas like, I mean, I did that for
my website so in theory atleast, I could probably do it
for yours.
Do you want to pay me moremoney?
And they did.
So I went and I learned basicweb design and I learned well
(22:34):
and realistically.
Angie Colee (22:34):
I'd been learning basic web design even in high
school Like remember the angelfire days, God I used to do that
shit for fun all the time.
Dusti Arab (22:37):
Like I built so many websites on there and all about
my different like weird littleniche things that I was into all
the time like textbook,undiagnosed ADHD right there
Like that was what I did for fun.
It was like I info dumped onall these micro sites like good
grief.
If I would have known what awiki was back in the day, oh
(22:59):
shit, I would have lost myfucking mind.
But so it started there and justlike wanting to be able to do
more for the people who werealready paying me, and so it was
like there and at some point,like I remember, I was having
trouble getting enoughcopywriting work, Like it just I
(23:20):
felt like I had expanded as farin my little niche as I could,
given like what I had going onin my life, and I ended up in
like picking up some like OBMtype work.
So if you're not in theindustry, online business
managers, they basically runeverything behind the scenes.
And because I had a marketingbrain, I was really good at it.
(23:42):
I was really good at it.
So I could just step into thatright-hand woman role right away
and I was pretty comfortablethere.
And at some point I realizedall of these people want all of
the same things.
I'm seeing these patternseverywhere.
So in 2016, I started my firstagency.
I'm seeing these patternseverywhere.
(24:03):
So in 2016, I started my firstagency and it started as just me
and my friend who was inoperations and she was coming
from a corporate background, andI was like, girl, I have these
like 12 people who are willingto pay me like thousands of
dollars a month, but I cannotkeep all of them, Like I cannot
keep track of all of this.
I need systems.
I need somebody else to be myfucking brain, Like I need
(24:24):
somebody else to do for me whatI'm doing for all of them,
basically.
And so we did that and I madeso many mistakes.
Good God, Um, my God loved myfriend.
She like we are still friends.
It took me forever to pay heroff after that agency failed
because it did Like we made it acouple of years and I just I
(24:49):
couldn't keep up with it.
And there were.
There were other factors atplay there too, Like part of why
I had so many clients wasbecause they were all from the
same MLM and during the electionyear, when I came out as, like,
pro-Hillary, all of a sudden Ihad a lot of clients drop off,
all but one, all but one, andthat was the beginning of the
(25:11):
end there.
So I had to let lots of peoplego, and I always try to, even
when I was dating.
I have a policy of leavingthings better than I found them.
So for clients that I couldn'tcontinue to take care of if I
had a copywriter or a designerwho I thought they could, they
could use.
I just farmed everybody out,basically and and kind of
(25:34):
started over like that was a Imean end of 2016,.
That was a rough year for me,like between the breakup and you
know, getting finally gettingin some traveling and all of
that.
Like it was just such a bigexpansion year for me in so many
ways that, like I, I justneeded to create some space
there.
Honestly.
Angie Colee (25:56):
Oh man, yeah, that sounds like.
It sounds like such an upheavalyear, and this is the thing
that's coming to me and tell meif it's accurate for you.
The thing that pops into mymind is, like all the
opportunity that comes inupheaval, when everything falls
to shit, there's usually somenugget of gold that's buried
among all the shit that youusually have to dig for and you
don't want to dig because it'sbeen a shitty year.
(26:18):
Okay, I don't want to doanymore, but there's something
there that can be rebuilt intosomething even better if we have
the courage and the bravery tosee the opportunity instead of
like I'm shit, this is shit, I'ma failure.
Woe is me.
Dusti Arab (26:32):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And it was like I knew thatthat year was going to be a lot
of it, so I said yes to lots ofthings that I wouldn't have
otherwise.
It's like I mean, I went toParis for 10 days by myself.
I did meet up with some folksthere that I knew, but I
remember at the time peoplebeing like you're so brave, I'm
like I'm going to a major city.
(26:54):
I'm like I don't feel like it'sthat brave, it's not that big a
deal, don't read into it toomuch, but it was life-changing.
It really really was, and itwas such an incredible growth
experience and it helped lay theway for everything else that
you know kind of came after that.
So I floated in and out of somelike more traditional employment
(27:15):
for for a minute there, I meanreally like I.
I met my partner now husbandthat next summer in 2017.
There and, like between thenand like COVID, I bounced around
with traditional employment inaddition to my freelancing and
still doing a lot of what I wasdoing online, and that was
(27:38):
really the right call for me.
I wanted to get some moretraditional experience and I
mean as traditional as being aVP of marketing at a cannabis
company can be, but I got tospend other people's money to
hire and get good at hiring andfor running these larger
projects, and so I just got toplay in a bunch of different
arenas that I didn't get topreviously.
(28:00):
And I'm so glad that I did,because when I did come back in
2020, I mean, I I think I had afull client load within a week
of lockdown.
It took no time for me to juststep back into it and yeah, and
that just kind of kicked offeverything else.
Angie Colee (28:20):
I love that, and there's a couple of things that,
like, I've been taking furiousnotes this entire time.
There are a couple of thingsthat I want to highlight.
One take opportunities right,and I actually read a post in a
in a copywriter group justearlier today where somebody
said one of the things that Idid that held myself back for
for such a long time without merealizing it was, I was so
deathly paranoid of somebodytrying to take advantage of me
(28:42):
and giving away free work that Iclosed off my mind to any
potential opportunities andgoing all the way back to when
you talked about volunteeringfor some of these conferences
and going to things, puttingyourself out there, right,
that's not somebody takingadvantage of you because you
volunteered for free.
That's you doing what you haveto do to get your foot in the
door and serve yourself fromthat buffet.
(29:03):
Right, there's that big heapingtable full of all the good
stuff.
I'm gonna get in there and getsome, right.
So I love that.
I also love that you talk aboutmaking mistakes, like and going
in house, because those aresome recurring themes over the
course of the show of like.
Well, what if I fuck up?
What if I try this big thingand it fails.
Welcome to entrepreneurship.
You're going to try big things.
(29:23):
You're going to try littlethings.
They're going to fail andyou're going to bounce back, and
it's okay.
We're a little bit rubber, it'sokay.
Going in-house is also okay.
It doesn't make you any less ofan entrepreneur that you took a
job and you fed your family andyou kept a roof over your head
and you did what you needed todo.
I actually think it's a supersmart way to get good,
(29:44):
especially if you're pivotingLike I need a new skill set.
I'm going to go get somebody topay me to get good at this
thing.
That's how.
Dusti Arab (29:49):
I got good at copywriting.
I don't know why more peopledon't do that Like that God.
I actually remember seeing apanel during that first year at
World Domination Summit and Imean, and I was still really
young, so like I felt, like Istill was in that phase where,
like I knew people who weredoing internships and
apprenticeships and all thatstuff too.
(30:10):
So like I get, when people arewho are more established and are
like at a certain age, likedon't wanna do that stuff as
much or it's not as appealing, Icompletely understand that.
However, I was right in themiddle of that and I remember it
was a panel and it was JonathanFields and Pam Slim and I think
somebody else, and I remembersomebody in the audience just
(30:32):
asked some asshat fuckingquestion because this was peak.
You know, tim Ferriss, fourhour work week.
It's like how can I get peopleto pay me to do X, y and Z?
can I get people to pay me to doX, y and Z and Pam says go get
a job, and just like in thatvoice, in that tone, and her and
(30:54):
Jonathan were just like,seriously, just go get a fucking
job, like it's not that big ofa deal, and then you'll have the
answers you're looking for Plusexperience, like obviously,
like there's nothing wrong withletting people pay you, in
whatever capacity that lookslike.
Angie Colee (31:05):
Oh yes, and especially for creatives, like
creatives, who are trying to dobusiness and you're trying to
sell your services to otherbusiness owners.
Nothing is going to clarifythis more than actually working
for somebody and understandinghow what you do fits into their
business.
I've worked with graphicdesigners, photographers
especially copywriters who thinkit's all about the stuff, it's
(31:27):
all about the words, it's allabout the story, it's all about
the photos.
No, it's not.
That is a piece of the overallpuzzle, and until you wrap your
head around how that fits intosomebody else's business, you're
constantly going to bewondering why this is so hard.
So going in house and seeinghow you fit into the overall
puzzle and like what you can doto amplify things, what what you
(31:48):
do that might double thingsright, it's going to give you
such saleable experience.
Dusti Arab (31:57):
Absolutely, absolutely and and honestly
that's actually so.
The way that I've structured myservices these days is almost
like that.
Like it really is.
Like like I am not a full-timeperson you can bring in, but I'm
so fast that you don't reallyneed a full-time person most of
(32:17):
the time for these smaller andwhen I say small, most of the
companies I work for are betweenlike two and 10 million.
So that's like where it makessense to have like a fractional
CMO.
And when I come in here I'm likepart of what I do for people is
like if we're working togetherat this level, then I want to
have, I want my hands dirty.
(32:39):
Like I want to be in the in themuck.
Like I don't want to feel likea hands-off consultant.
Like I mean and sometimes thathas value like where you have
somebody who's an outside voiceand like and I'll come in and do
that for like a VIP day orsomething.
But where I feel like I'm themost effective is when I can
integrate with a team you know,cut the fat, hire new folks and
(33:00):
really create these cohesivemarketing teams and campaigns.
So in some cases I will workmyself out of a job and that's
great.
Like I mean that means thatI've gotten the company to a
level that they do need somebodywho's full-time in-house, which
is incredible, and I love beingable to operate in that role.
But I really like these leaner,smaller teams like that,
(33:23):
because they are recovery, likeyou know.
There's more flexibility, weget to move faster and you get
to know people, and that reallyis important to me, even in a
fully remote role like this.
Angie Colee (33:36):
Oh man, that's fabulous too, and it ties back
into another point that I wantedto make that you said was
brilliant.
Like, how do I get people topay me?
How do I do more for thesepeople that are already paying
me?
And this seems perfect, likeyou used that experience to get
you to a piece that you love.
Help them grow, help them getthe right people in place and
(33:57):
then peace out, my job is doneRight.
I've met so many people on theentrepreneur thing.
Like how do I get in with thesepeople for like ever, and I'm
like, I'm with the crowd.
That's like a little bit ad, alot adhd.
I don't want to be here forever.
I want to get you to goodenough.
And then, hey, like, if wecontinue working together
(34:17):
throughout the years ondifferent projects, absolutely,
like, I need to keep the smartfresh.
That's what makes my magic work.
Dusti Arab (34:25):
Yeah, it's true, and especially in marketing, like
for anything, marketing liketangent like you need that, like
you need fresh blood, you needto have fresh perspectives and
stuff Like there's.
So I have one client who I'vebeen with their team for like a
year and a half and I knew fromthe moment I signed on that was
probably like an 18 month tothree year contract and I'm
(34:46):
already seeing now where, likeeither this author, this you
know this author is going toneed to write and sell another
book here or in another sixmonths.
It may not make sense for me tostay on with the current model
because we've already optimizedeverything we can optimize.
They're not launching newproducts, so like, unless there
is some kind of an activationpoint, I don't need to be there
and there's nothing wrong withthat, like it wouldn't be like
(35:08):
me leaving because something'sgone wrong or whatever.
But I just have no interest inworking on the same boring ass
thing over and over and overagain.
And I love their programs.
I've taken their programs, likeit's so good, it's such good
content, but I've already doneit.
So like I'm looking forsomething you know, like I want
that spark too for me, like Iwant to be able to fall in love
(35:30):
with your business and yourproject.
And that, does you know?
That means we gotta, we gottalike move it along once in a
while.
Angie Colee (35:37):
Thank you for saying that and for saying that
in such a just, uniquely dustyway, because I think that
there's a lot of fear aroundrelationships ending and that it
always has to be a bad thing.
Why can't it be a graduation,instead of like, oh shit, now we
can't work together and I needto get another client right?
It doesn't always have to bethis bad thing when a
relationship ends.
(35:57):
Sometimes it just ends becauseyou both got what you wanted out
of it.
I actually remember I hired alife coach Hi, brian, if you're
listening to this and work withhim for about two and a half
years, and I remember on ourlast call we were getting to the
end of our I think he did likethree or six month packages.
We were on one of the very lastcalls and he gets on, he goes.
So what do you want to work ontoday?
(36:18):
And I was like I don't know, Idon't really have anything, and
he goes.
Nothing came up for you thisweek and I was like, yeah, I
mean I had a couple of things,but I had the tools and I did
this and I did that and I'mfeeling pretty good, I'm feeling
pretty proud of myself.
So, like we chit-chatted for alittle bit.
When we got to the end of thecall and we started talking
about does it make sense for usneeded?
Like I think I'm really feelinggood, I feel strong, um, just
(36:48):
evidenced by this call, the factthat I didn't really have
anything to talk about.
I was able to handle all theemotional meltdowns myself and
come out better for it.
So like, thank you, I feel like.
I graduated coaching.
Dusti Arab (37:00):
And that's incredible.
Like and it doesn't mean youwon't go back in the future or
that you won't work with anothercoach in the future or on
something specific, but that'sexactly how I feel about it too,
and like I mean for beingsomeone who's a marketer and has
been in this weird littlecorner of the internet for like
a long time, at this point, likeI am a hard sell.
I hardly buy anything fromanybody and if I do buy
(37:26):
something, it's because I'vebeen watching you for years and
I've vetted you with likemultiple of your clients.
Like it's I mean it's it'sridiculous honestly for like the
level of purchase that thatI'll still do this with, but
like that's.
that's the kind of buyer I am.
Angie Colee (37:43):
It's so funny that you say that.
I'm actually honestly theopposite buyer, and you actually
experienced this last year whenyou and our friend Hillary
decided to throw thiscollaboration cruise and I had
always wanted to go on a Virgincruise and y'all basically said
like hey, come have fun with us,we'll work on your business.
And I was like that's it.
I mean how to?
(38:04):
And I mean there is somebackground vetting.
You and I met when I wastraveling on the road.
I'd known Hillary for a while,so, like it wasn't you know, I'm
just seeing strangers on theinternet saying come on a cruise
, build your business.
There is a little bit ofselling that's happened in the
background all this time.
But like y'all said here's theoffer and I went yep.
Dusti Arab (38:24):
Well, and that's that is my favorite kind of
thing to offer, like when it'ssomething that like, and we
wanted it to be just like theeasiest, yes, possible.
So Hillary and I hosted acollaboration cruise on a Virgin
voyage and we took like 10people and we went and talked
business for a couple of daysand were spoiled, rotten on a
cruise.
And it was amazing because weknew exactly what we wanted
(38:50):
there.
We wanted it to be so easy toput on, we wanted all the
details taken care of for us andbecause, like anyone who's been
in entrepreneurial circlesknows that, like at events, the
most valuable part about any ofthose events and we've kind of
talked about this on this callis what's happening on the sides
, those conversations that arehappening in the wings.
(39:10):
That's where the magic is.
So, for something like this,like it was like Disneyland on a
boat I mean, I guess they havethat already, but that's true,
it was better.
Angie Colee (39:22):
Honestly, uh, at the risk of sounding like an
angry old auntie, uh, no, kids,that was great.
Um, the the Seaview terrace.
I literally slept one night inthe hammock out there on the
seat.
Lest this devolve into acommercial for a Virgin Cruises
hey, richard, call me.
Um, I loved that experience.
It was such a good refresher onand gave me so much perspective
(39:45):
and introduced me to so manycool people.
Like, ah, I don't know whereI'm going with that tangent
either, but like just lettingyou know if, if Dusty or I
offers some sort of experientialthing to work on your business,
I think you should jump on itbecause it's usually pretty fun.
So, um, there was another thing.
Actually, this kind of tiesinto what I was saying with the
boat.
Uh, sometimes you got to justsay yes and figure shit out, and
(40:07):
that sounds like exactly whatyou have done for most of your
career.
Can you speak to that a littlemore?
Dusti Arab (40:12):
oh man, yeah, I have god.
When I read I only read year ofyes, like two years ago, and as
soon as I did I was like, oh,me and shonda man, like I am, I
am feeling this and like, andshe's got like other other stuff
going on for sure in in thatbook.
But that idea of activelychoosing to put your biases
(40:35):
aside and not your preferencesnecessarily, but like your, your
preconceived notions, I guessis what I'm trying to say
putting the preconceived notionsaside and trying more things.
So, like that year after thatbreakup, I was like, okay, I've
been a serial monogamous mywhole life.
I have to learn how to date.
So I'm a doofus.
(40:56):
So I decided to turn it into achallenge and it's a half
written book on my hard driveright now and I was going to do
52 dates in 52 weeks and that'show I was going to stay single,
how I was going to learn to dateand, like you know, we'll just.
We'll just figure it out.
It'd be a fun little writingproject to do on the side while
I'm running a business andraising children and doing all
(41:17):
the other shit that I was doing.
What a good idea.
And then I realized I was a hotgirl on the internet and I did
way more than 52 dates because Ithought it was hilarious.
But, god, that year, though,like the, by the time I had
gotten to like the next May.
So I'd almost completed my yearand I had said yes to all sorts
(41:40):
of people you know for datesand stuff who I wouldn't have
given a second consideration tobefore, and, generally speaking,
what I found was like myinstincts are good, I didn't
need to do those things.
But one of the last ones that Isaid yes to was this guy who I
had seen in a bar the yearbefore and we had all ended up
(42:00):
at the same table because we hada mutual friend and I was still
dating fuckboy at the time, andwe were, all you know, hanging
out.
It's karaoke bar, you get it.
And this dude, like at onepoint, throws his arm around my
waist.
It was like whew, and myboyfriend got all like blah and
like marched us out.
I'm like whatever.
So when he showed up on Tinder,I was like, oh, boyfriend would
(42:28):
have hated this.
Swipe, right, let's go.
So we hung out for like sixweeks and had a great time.
He was super, super cool and hetook me to this 4th of July
party and I met all of my people, including my future husband,
there, and so, like it was justlike as soon as I'd walked in
that room, I was like I alreadyknew that like our shelf life
had pretty much run its course,but we were still kind of
hanging out and having a nicetime.
(42:49):
But as soon as I walked in thatroom, I was like, okay, I have
to figure out how to make surethat he can't get rid of me, so
I have to make friends with allof the women in this room right
now.
And up marches this girl andshe sticks out her hand.
She's like hi, I'm Kirsten,like Biersten, and next weekend
(43:09):
I am running her bacheloretteparty and the two of them are
getting married Nice.
So it was, everything works outin the end.
She's still Biersten in myphone and Brad's not so bad
either.
I got his big dumb face on agiant stick and we're going to
make it a totem for marchingaround New York so we don't lose
any of our party.
Angie Colee (43:30):
That is fantastic.
Yes See, sometimes things arehappening for you, even when it
seems like everything is fallingapart and it's not going the
way that you want.
And that doesn't even soundlike a falling apart story, that
sounds like a falling togetherstory.
But so often we get fixated onlike this is not going the way I
want it.
Like you could have easilytaken another mindset to that of
(43:51):
like oh, another guy that'sonly lasting like six weeks,
what is I know?
I said 52 dates in 52 weeks,but like what is wrong with me?
That this is not working andyou didn't take that tactic and
it worked out.
So, like faith in yourself, mydarlings, if you're in that
rough growth stage, if you areunder $50,000 a year and you're
like what the fuck?
Get a job, it's okay.
(44:12):
Or don't get a job, it's okay.
If you're in the 5 million plusrange, get a dusty, don't get a
dusty, figure stuff out, it'sokay.
You can say yes, you can do thedamn thing.
Welcome to this bizarre wildride of entrepreneurship where
we can do whatever the fuck wewant.
Permission to kick ass granted.
Dusti Arab (44:32):
Amen.
Angie Colee (44:33):
That feels like the perfect spot to just like wrap
on.
So tell us a little bit moreabout you and your business.
Thank you for being such anincredible guest.
Where can we learn more?
Dusti Arab (44:42):
Totally, so you can come learn more about me and
what I do at thereinventionco.
I also have a podcast calledReferral Worthy.
You can find it on the samesite and anywhere you listen to
your podcasts.
It is mostly focused onbuilding a referral worthy
business and everything thatgoes into that.
So those are the two things Iam going to seed that I am going
(45:07):
to be running another businessmaking retreat here.
It's not until April of 2025.
I'm going to be taking a groupof women to France and if
anyone's interested in joiningme, we're in the preliminary
planning stages.
So now's a good time to reachout.
Nice, nice, I was like.
Angie Colee (45:22):
Well, of course, we're in the preliminary
planning stages, so now's a goodtime to reach out.
Nice, nice, I was like well, ofcourse we're staring into
cameras right now, but I'm likeshe's making pointed eye contact
at me.
We're going to do this.
Thank you so much for beingwith us on this show.
This is incredible.
I'm glad I got to see your faceand thank you.
That's all for now.
If you want to keep thatkick-ass energy high, please
(45:44):
take a minute to share thisepisode with someone that might
need a high-octane dose of youCan Do it.
Don't forget to rate, reviewand subscribe to the Permission
to Kick-Ass podcast on ApplePodcasts, spotify and wherever
you stream your podcasts.
I'm your host, angie Coley, andI'm here rooting for you.
Thanks for listening and let'sgo kick some ass.
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