The importance of sharing your story with Julie Lilliston

Episode Transcript
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Angie Colee (00:03):
Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass, the show
that gives you a virtual seatat the bar for the real
conversations that happenbetween entrepreneurs.
I'm interviewing all kinds ofbusiness owners, from those just
a few years into freelancing toCEOs helming nine-figure
companies.
If you've ever worried thateveryone else just seems to get
it and you're missing somethingor messing things up, this show

(00:24):
is for you.
I'm your host, Angie Coley, andlet's get to it.
Hey, and welcome back toPermission to Kick Ass.
With me today is my new friend,Julie Lilliston.
Say hi, Hello, I love thatbackground.
It's like the first time wetalked I saw this kind of
office-y looking background.

(00:44):
So well, tell us a little bitmore about what you do.

Julie Lilliston (00:47):
Sure, yeah.
So Julie Lilliston.
Julie Lilliston Communicationsfounded my own communications
public relations strategicadvisory company 10 years ago,
so celebrating 10 years and veryexcited about that.
But I work with a lot of smallbusiness owners to help them
elevate their reputation withintheir market and in their

(01:09):
industry and help promote theirproducts and services.
And I specialize in executivevisibility, so working with a
lot of CEO owners and gettingthem out there and sharing their
expertise.
And I also work with a fairamount of nonprofits.

Awesome, and congrats on 10 years.
That's no easy feat.

Yeah, I mean, you know there's been a lot of
bumps along the way and I'm surewe'll get into some of that, so
it'll be fun.

We're going to talk about some of them 10 years.
Are you doing anything specialto celebrate, you know?

I really should .
It's September 1st is when Istarted, so it's like I have a
little bit of time.
But kind of all this year Ihave found some avenues to, you
know, get out there and talkabout my business, which you
know it's the classic case ofthe accomplished children have
no shoes, so I'm not out theredoing PR for myself, but this
year, and including this podcast, I have made an effort to try

(02:04):
to get out there and share mystory a little bit more.
So that's kind of how I'mcelebrating.

I promise I'm laughing with you, not at you,
because I feel like I've beentalking to people lately about
the there's a cobbler's kidsituation over here.
I haven't updated my website.
I am notorious about sporadicemail, despite being an email
marketing expert.
Like I do for others, I enjoydoing for others.
Doing for oneself sometimes isa challenge.

It's hard, it's tough and that actually that,
frankly, that's a lot of thereason why people reach out to
me.
It's really hard to do PR foryourself for some individuals.
Others are out there promotingconstantly and getting the word
out about their everything, thatthey're involved in, everything
that they do and how they getback to the community and others
.
It's a real struggle to do that.

(02:54):
So they find it much easier inworking with a partner that can
push that out on their behalf.
I'm sure you run into that inyour world.

Oh, absolutely.
Actually, I'm really curiousabout that.
If you don't mind digging in,what kind of head trash are
people?
Do you know what their fearsare around putting themselves
out there like that?
Where are they struggling withthat?

Yeah, a lot of it.
It's interesting.
It could be like impostersyndrome.
Am I really qualified to be outthere talking about this?
And once I do, when I meet withclients and do a deep dive in
their business and the messagingsession, we really find out
everything about their business,how they make money, where they
focus about their clients,where they want to grow, and

(03:36):
it's amazing all the things thatcome out of that because they
obviously they're experts intheir business.
They really know their industryinside and out.
They have the goods.
It's just sharing that publiclyand you know, in a form that
they might not be as comfortablewith with media and you know
understanding like whatquestions are they going to ask
and where is this going and howdo I do an interview?

(03:57):
You know, and again, I justkind of work with with clients
around that and and helping themcome up with the right messages
that work for them.
It has to be in their words andbe authentic and help them
loosen up a little bit and justhave fun and open up and share
their expertise and by and large, they'll tell me that was
really fun, that was a greatexperience and that's what I'm

(04:19):
trying to get them to.
It's all about building trustin the relationships, but a lot
of it could just be, you know,am I worthy of this?
So questioning their, not somuch their expertise, but these
opportunities that come.

I've experienced something similar to that effect
, and it's no secret on thisshow that I have anxiety, like
I'm always combating the voicesin the head right.
I remember the first time I wasasked to speak on stage and I
had such a like I don't want tosay like extreme reaction, but
that's the word that's coming tomind I felt called to prepare

(04:58):
like nobody has ever prepared onthis planet.
I was about to do livebreakdowns and copy questions
marketing questions on stage andthey were submitted in advance.
I had a chance to review themin advance, so it wasn't like
somebody was asking me somethingon the fly that I'd never seen
before although I'm pretty goodat that too but for some reason
I was convinced they're tryingto fuck with me, they're trying

(05:21):
to throw me for a loop, they'retrying to trick me.
So I studied for weeks the mostadvanced, sophisticated,
multivariate testing, differentaudience paths.
I was prepared to answer anylaunch related marketing
questions you could possiblythrow my way and, to my utter
shock I did not expect this atall Every single problem was

(05:43):
marketing 101.
Yeah, Super basic stuff, and Iwas over here anticipating that
I'm going to have to answer themost complicated questions of my
career.
This is when they're going tofind out.
I don't know everything, Idon't know it all, but like
answering the basic 101 levelquestions, people went oh, I
never thought of it that way.
They came and found me in theback of a dark ballroom and said

(06:10):
oh, thank you so much forsaying that.
I had no idea I was missingthat on my website.
So I'm like most of it is uspsyching ourselves out, Do you
agree it is?

I totally agree with that, and women tend to
over-prepare.
And you hear all the time abouthow women won't go for job
opportunities unless they haveat least 80% of the requirements
and under their belt.
Men don't do that.
They have maybe 50%, 40%they're going for it.
And so I think it's the samekind of concept in interviews
and those types of situationsand over-preparing, and you

(06:36):
really need to just know that,you know what you're talking
about and just open up and sharethat and have fun with it.
Try to loosen up a little bit,because that over-preparing it
will drive you crazy and thenit'll get in your head and then
you're like, did I say the rightthing, Did I not?
And you know by and large mostof these, especially TV

(06:57):
interviews, you've got maybethree to four minutes.
There's no time, it flies by ina heartbeat.
And so just having in your mindyou know what the general topic
is, what are the one to twopoints you want to get across
and let the rest of it just flow.
I think that comes across muchbetter.

Yeah, and I always have like one in my back pocket
in case I don't know what thehell I want to say.
That really only applies inlike live interview situations
where I don't have a buffer.
Okay guys, here's a littleinside baseball, right, and I
don't have a buffer.
Okay guys, here's a littleinside baseball, right, and I
don't know why I say insidebaseball, because I don't even
watch baseball.
But whatever, on this show, allof the shit that I've said that

(07:35):
was a mess up has literally beenscrubbed from the record by my
incredible editor, james.
Shout out to James.
So I mess up on this show allthe time, it's just that we edit
it out.
So if I lose my train ofthought, which I have literally
done in the middle of interviewson a live one, I would be like
oh, you know what, I don't knowwhere I was going with that.
Do you have another question?
Or I'll say something along thelines of that's a good one.
I honestly don't know that.

(07:56):
I have an answer off the top ofmy head.
Let me ask you this and thenI'll ask them another question
and just kind of redirect itentirely.
So I find just having one ortwo of those in my back pocket
for when I inevitably lose mytrain of thought makes me feel a
lot more confident.

Yeah, it happens, it totally happens.
Or you just draw a blank andyou're not really sure where to
go from there to ask oh, couldyou repeat the question?
And you're?
You know you're thinking of ananswer, because if there is
something that they ask, that'sthat's off the cuff and you're
not really sure you know how torespond.
It's fine to say exactly howyou just handled it, like, well,
you know, let me tell you aboutthis I'm not really sure you

(08:30):
know how to answer that or, inmy experience, and redirect it
to what it is that you do knowand what you can offer some
expertise about, that's just areally good way to do it.
But you know it happens, itjust your mind can just draw a
blank and you're in the middleof a sentence, and so you know,
most people are veryunderstanding about that.
Yeah, and in a life situation,just kind of move on and move

(08:52):
ahead and go from there.
So that's awesome.

Well, going back to what I was asking about earlier
with the kind of the blocks wetalked about imposter syndrome,
Is there anything else thatcomes up in your experience for
people seeking this?

kind of publicity.
I think the other thing is just, you know, being really present
.
So when you do haveopportunities with media, just
making sure you don't have thedistractions that you're in a
place that's, you know, quietand all the things that you know
certainly you ask of any ofyour guests to do Same thing.
You know an interview.
You'd be surprised if you'relike, oh, can I call, can I do
this from the car while I'mdriving.
You know, in some cases, if youhave a relationship with that

(09:27):
person, that may be OK andthey're just getting like a
quick quote from you.
But most, most times, it's not.
You really need to have thededicated time and focus and
give it the attention itdeserves, because you're not
doing yourself a service bybeing distracted and trying to
multitask, which you know.
I think there was a story thatyour brain cannot focus on more

(09:49):
than one thing at a time.
So multitasking does not evenexist, even though people like
I'm really great at it, like no,you're crappy at about five
different things, like it's youknow it just does not exist.

So give it the focus.

Give it the attention, give it the time that
it deserves, and you'll have amuch better experience.
Oh, absolutely.

And I just want to second that underscore it,
highlight it for anybodylistening.
Look, I'm an ADHD person.
I know that there are a lot ofneuro spicy folks that are
listening to this show.
I focus best when I'm doingsomething like puttering around
with my Bluetooth headphonesvacuuming while also listening
to something, so that I'm likeI'm occupying the part of my
brain that would normally wanderwith some sort of physical

(10:31):
activity.
So lest you apply that to liketaking an interview in the car
while driving.
I have literally been talkingto people on Zoom calls in the
car when somebody almost killedme.
So like don't, just don't likethis.
This was in Atlanta, where, inmy experience, at least the
drivers.
Just they have mentally decidedthat is my lane and they just

(10:53):
slowly come on over withoutlooking.
And don't come at me if you'refrom Atlanta.
Every city has its idiotdrivers.
I know this.
But like that, that actuallyhappened to me and I realized
okay, yeah, you know, forinterviews and coaching sessions
, let's not be distracted, nomatter how good of a driver you
are.

Yeah, that's probably not a best best
practice and you know, Iactually just posted today that
the hotter it gets, the moreaggressive people drive.
So doing things like that whiledriving, phone calls are one
thing, Um, but yeah, I think aninterview situation your mind,
you're just not paying attentionwhere you need to yeah, it
could be totally a safety issue.

So yeah.

PSA.

Oh yeah.
Well, I mean like you've beenon the receiving end of this,
but there's a whole lot ofpreparation that goes into this,
at least from my end, forguests.
Some hosts aren't as thoroughas I am.
I'm slightly anal, retentive,contrary to popular belief about
how easygoing I am.
I have a whole email sequencethat goes out to people saying
here's what you should do forsound, here's how to set up your

(11:54):
recording environment.
In case you've never done thisbefore, here's how to think
about some topics that we couldtalk about, that we can riff on.
I have a whole preparationsequence and I still have people
show up to record that don'thave headphones, that don't have
a mic, that go oh, my kids justgot home from school.
Is that going to be a problem?
And I'm going all right.

Well, I know I'm not going to invite you back
, but yeah, it's you know, thereis a lot of preparation that
goes on with interviews and TVappearances or any kind of
medium print, radio, online, etc.
And usually what I do is workwith the producer and with the
host to provide them.

(12:34):
Here are some talking points,here are the areas that we're
going to focus on, and I like toinclude lots of stats and
figures and things that they cancall on as they're doing the
interview.
It's not set in stone, it'sjust to give them a guide and it
also gives a guide for theguest so they feel prepared,
they know the kinds of things,the types of topics have some
stories, have some anecdotes andthings you can share to bring

(12:57):
it to life.
But with the producer and withthe host, like you know, they
sometimes you know they'll belooking at it and kind of pull
out a stat and go, you know, ina different direction as the
conversation goes, and so I findit's just really helpful that
way and then you get a lot moreinformation that's relevant and
has value and get that across ina short amount of time if you

(13:19):
didn't do that.
So there is a lot of prep thatgoes into it.

Oh yeah, I love this.
I didn't know it was going tobe this way, because all of
these conversations unfolddifferently, but I kind of love
how meta this conversation isabout, like the act of preparing
for something like this whilewe're doing it, while we're
doing it in real time.
I I think that that's reallyreally cool.

(13:44):
So, okay, now abrupt left turnhere.
You were talking, before westarted recording, a little bit
about like expertise and nicheand I know that that's a common
conversation in business circlesbut like, how, how do you start
thinking about that andapplying that in this context
with publicity PR?

Yeah, I think it's so important, you know, for
entrepreneurs to really bethinking about where can they
make the greatest impact, wherethey have the greatest
opportunity as a business, butwhere can they really penetrate?
You know, really deeply and notspread yourself so thin.
I think a lot of times like,well, I have expertise here and
there and I can do this and Ican do that, and a client asks

(14:26):
you to do something.
It's classic case and you'relike I've never done that before
but okay, I'll give it a shot,and sometimes that works out
really well and that's great,and sometimes it doesn't like
the sustainability of yourbusiness.
It could be harder to achievethat if you're bouncing around
in all different kinds ofdirections and providing

(14:47):
different services or productsthat you know are kind of based
on one particular client or onething, and so instead of
reacting to that, I think youknow, for me I really tapped
into and found a niche when Istarted working with women
business owners and I noticedthat you know the size
businesses you know probably 2million and up, you know 20

(15:08):
employees or more really did nothave internal communications,
marketing staff expertise, butneeded that expertise.
So that became an area for meto really focus in on and I just
really love working with womenbusiness owners.
A lot of times they're thefounder CEO, and helping to get

(15:30):
them out there and talking aboutthe services and products that
they have and how they impacttheir industry has been really
fulfilling and really rewarding.
And I found that for me at thisstage, after spending my career
bulk of my career in globalagencies and taking those best
practices and applying them tosmall businesses, that you know,

(15:51):
that's what's really it for meis doing meaningful work and
working with clients who arereally making a difference, and
to me, that gives me the energyand the focus and the
inspiration it takes to do this.
So I think that's reallyimportant to find that, whatever
that is that really lights youup and you get really passionate

(16:11):
about that's where you shouldbe focusing your area in your
business.
Those clients where you're justyou do wanna go above and
beyond and go the extra mile forthem, because they're
responsive and you're gettinggreat results and you work as a
partner.
Those are all very importantthings to me.
So the niche of working in thiscommunity of women business

(16:33):
owners has just been a lot offun, and I have to have fun.
I don't know about everybodyelse in their work and in their
day-to-day, but for me that justis really exciting.
If I'm really having fun, thenI know this is it.
This is where I should befocusing and I kind of tapped
into it kind of by becomingcertified as a woman business

(16:54):
owner through WeBank, which isthe Women's Business Enterprise
National Council.
So I encourage any women outthere 51% or more women owned
run, managed to look into thatcertification and they work with
the Fortune 500 that arelooking to find diverse
suppliers.
That is the whole goal.
It's all about doing business,it's about growing your business

(17:15):
, and so finding and workingwith those buyers and heads of
procurement that are looking tosource with women business
owners has been great, and forme it's not so much going after
the Fortune 500, but it's the20,000 certified women business
owners that are in that network.
So, and there are a lot ofother businesses out there that

(17:35):
do focus on the other womenbusiness owners versus the
Fortune 500.
They're great and I love to beable to refer women to them
because I've formed lots ofgreat relationships with the
heads of supplier diversity atdifferent companies and so if
they're looking for someone, Imay be able to help them or make
introductions, referrals,things like that, and that's all
part of, you know, finding thatniche.

Yeah, that, like that, and that's all part of you
know, finding that niche yeah,that's incredible.
I know that like niching issuch a huge conversation,
especially in the service-basedindustries.
Like, pick your niche, that'show you signal to your people,
right?
I've always been superresistant to, I think, like a
super specific niche.
I gravitate more towards stylesof people within a particular.

(18:18):
So I work with a lot of experts, thought leaders, things like
that.
But they're they're all overthe place, they're in all kinds
of different businesses anddifferent specialties.
Like because I told somebodyonce who asked me what's your
niche?
Who do you work with?
And I said that's a greatquestion.
Um, who will ask people on amission to do some good in the

(18:39):
world?
That's.
And sure enough, if I look backover you know, the last 10 or
so years in business since Isaid that thing that faithful,
faithful day every person thatI've worked with with I think
like one or two exceptions wassomebody that fits that
description cool ass person,somebody I could chill and have
a beer with after an event.

(19:00):
I could crash at their house.
They could crash at my houseLike it wouldn't even be a big
deal and they have a biggermission of like I wanna help
this group, I wanna help thatgroup, I wanna serve 100,000
small business firms owned bywomen or whatever.
The goal is right Cool peopleon a mission to do some good in
the world, that's awesome andthat really fuels you and that

(19:21):
gives you inspiration, that'sreally important to you.

So I think knowing that then when you're
meeting people that don't reallyfit into that category, you're
kind of like, yeah, it'sprobably not going to be the
best fit and there's absolutelynothing wrong at all in figuring
that out.
That's all part of the process,and part of owning your own
business is finding out, okay,what makes the right aligned
client for me and what doesn'tso, and who doesn't and who fits

(19:44):
into that.
And so just knowing that isreally important because that
will help you as you grow yourbusiness.
And you know exactly.
You know when you meet someoneand you're like, okay, this is
it, you know this is theconnection is there.
I think that's also reallyimportant.
You have to have that chemistryand connection with the client.
At least I do so, you know,cause it's it's hard work, this

(20:06):
is not easy work.

Well, yeah, and I mean like what you, what you do
and what I do and the type ofmarketing consultant I do, I
think there's a lot of overlaps,because I kind of got to crawl
up inside your head and pull outall of the thoughts that you
may not even necessarily know,that you need to share with
people.
Like I can't tell you how manytimes I've been interviewing
somebody for a project, for oneof the intensives that I do, and

(20:29):
and they're like what, I don'teven know why we're talking
about this.
I don't think it's thatimportant.
I was like I beg to differ.
I need to know about this forthis reason and this reason and
this reason.
Like you don't even know whatis the most fascinating thing
about you, you've kind of shovedall of that shit up under a rug
and gone.

Nobody cares about this and like, absolutely
we care about this, give it tome things that people are really
passionate and get emotionalabout experiences that they've
had.
It absolutely is critical tobeing able to be successful at
what you do and what I do.

(21:06):
On the PR end, some things justunderstanding that about a
client is like how I'll frame orgo after certain opportunities,
because the story of being anentrepreneur is interesting in
and of itself and they may belike, oh no, I'm beyond that Now
.
I'm growing, I'm moving up, I'm, you know, at this different
level, but people want to knowthat they learn so much from
hearing that type of story andso, if they're comfortable in
opening up and sharing some ofthose and that's what it gets

(21:29):
down to, for me it really is allabout the story, and so we're
like digging for gold constantly, you know, trying to find those
little nuggets that we want tofocus on you know as we're
positioning clients.
So, yeah, it's really importantto be able to do that, and I
think that gets back to thetrust issue having that

(21:49):
relationship and trust with theclient that they feel
comfortable sharing with you,and then externally, and it all
works together.

So oh, yeah, that's .
I mean, that's another kind ofinside baseball thing.
Like I can zoom out and talkabout the prep that I do for
this show, one of the thingsthat I do like here I'll show a
quick glimpse of the remarkabletablet for anybody watching the
video.
I have a whole rundown that Igo through with each and every
guest before we start recording,give them a chance to ask me

(22:20):
questions about what's coming up, how best to prepare themselves
.
Also even warn them that, likethere may be a cat in here.
So if you see me do some weirdthing where I'm like just don't,
don't mind me, I'm yelling atthe cats.
But like one of the things thatI tell people is this is just
you and me talking.
Right, we are recording it, butit's just you and me talking

(22:42):
and I respect what you bring tothe table.
So if anything comes up duringthe course of this conversation
I'm really good at leading theseconversations, right, sometimes
something sensitive comes upand after we stop recording, you
go.
I don't really feel comfortablesharing that, or that's not my
story to share.
I just you go.
I don't really feel comfortablesharing that, or that's not my
story to share.
I just you know we're sharing itin the moment and I tell people
we'll cut it out.
I've only had to enact thatfive times with with guests, but

(23:06):
over the course of a couplehundred episodes.
But I think, like because Itake the time to set that up, of
like whatever comes up is goingto come up, but we don't have
to air all of it.
Let's people actually let downtheir guard a little bit more.
Would you say that that'saccurate?

Oh yeah, I mean that's a really respectful way
of approaching it, where peoplefeel that they can share openly
and it's not a gotcha type ofinterview or questioning.
And if they do say something orovershare or speak, you know,
out of turn and think about itlater to have the opportunity to
say you know, that reallywasn't okay for me to say, or
I'd feel more comfortable if it,and then allowing that, I mean
I think that that shows just alot of respect for your guests

(23:50):
and what you're doing here.
So I appreciate that, becauseit you know it happens you get
caught up in the moment.

I am definitely an oversharer.
Awesome, abrupt left turn.
All right, take me back to thebeginning.
So you mentioned kind of inprevious answers the firms that
you had been in before.
So I assume, like you were inPR a long time before you went
out on your own, can you tell mea little bit more about what
that process was like for you?

Oh sure, yeah, absolutely.
And I got into PR, you know, asan English major.
So love to read, love to write,love to communicate, those are
all my strengths and had no ideawhat I wanted to do and started
working in the nonprofit sideof PR and promoting
organizations and then went tothe global agencies where I
spent the bulk of my career intech in a tech practice group

(24:40):
and doing a lot of business tobusiness.
So that's how I started workingin executive visibility and
helping to elevate their profileacross software, hardware,
telecom, all those industriesback in the dot-com boom and
then inevitable bust thathappened and then survived that
and went on the corporate sideand so a lot of those best

(25:01):
practices that I learned and Iworked with some of the best in
the industry.
So I you know being able tothen shift and take that and
apply that in my own consultancy, which you know I started
consulting after a layoff andwas not interested in.
All people told me for yearswhy don't you consult, why don't

(25:23):
you get in on your consult?
Why would I want to do that?
You know I feel like, you knowthe security of working with
this global firm.
You know that that's where itshould be and that is was not
the case at all.
So you know, it basically was,you know, an opportunity for me.
Um, a friend had reached out whoI had worked with and was like,
hey, I'm starting my ownventure, we need some PR help.
And I started working with himand I was like, oh, this is it.

(25:47):
You know, he's a small businessowner.
I was able to elevate hisprofile, get a lot of great
coverage and telling his storyand helping him, you know, build
his business, and that, really,to me, was where I wanted to
focus.
I got so much benefit out ofthat.
So, starting down the path of Ibecame certified and I got

(26:07):
involved in a coupleorganizations and this is really
where I started to focus onkind of building that network.
And because it's hard when youstart and you may not be
connected, like, what groups,what organizations?
Where should I be putting mytime?
You know you can do so manycoffee meetings.
Is it really turning intobusiness?
You know you just becomeexhausted.

(26:30):
And so you know I'm based inNashville and there's lots of
great organizations here thatreally support entrepreneurs,
including an entrepreneur centerand taking some of these
courses and other groups likethat, becoming involved in my
local chamber and I mentionedabout WeBank.
That was really importantbecause the regional partner
organization is five states andso they have events across all

(26:52):
these states States and being apart of that and going to those
and expanding my network thenbecame a national network where
you know also I'm involved inNABO National Association of
Women Business Owners greatorganization and I was able to
team up with other womenbusiness owners and go after
business together that haveancillary services to mine, so

(27:15):
they may specialize in digitalmarketing and social media and
content marketing and otherareas that I don't focus mine,
so they may specialize indigital marketing and social
media and content marketing andother areas that I don't focus
in.
So being able to do that openedup doors for me to expand and
go after other opportunities andso I bring them in on
opportunities.
They bring me in when they needthe PR piece and that really
has been a great way to grow mybusiness.

(27:36):
So that was really a criticaland kind of a turning point for
me when I expanded the networkand you know different programs
like the Goldman Sachs 10,000Small Businesses fabulous
program to go through Smallbusinesses in every industry,
all different sizes, geographiesIncredible.

(27:56):
I encourage anyone to apply.
It's 100% paid for by GoldmanSachs.
I did it virtually during thepandemic and you come up with a
growth opportunity for yourbusiness and vet that through
this group and what a fabulouslearning experience and
connections.
And again, now that's anothernetwork that I'm a part of.
So each thing like that, eachlearning opportunity, looking at

(28:21):
how you can continually expandand get exposure and
introductions and referrals, andthen keeping these people in
mind, the close circle out ofeach of these organizations that
I'm involved with, foropportunities that I can refer

(28:41):
them business or make anintroduction for them, and I
just feel that's just the way todo good business.
I'll meet with people and haveno preset um, preset, you know,
preconceived notion of you knowwhat am I getting out of this?
You know they may just havesome questions.
Um, you know about PR and someof the things that we've been

(29:03):
talking about that I could shedsome light.
Um, but again, you never knowcause some of those people will
come out of the woodwork and belike, well, I wasn't ready for
you then, but now I am and youknow so it's to me.
It's all about thoserelationships and building those
.

I love that distinction and I just want to
highlight that for anybodylistening.
I mean, I know that most peoplewho have made it a certain
amount of time in businessalready understand this
principle, but I think it'sworth repeating that it's about
the relationship, not what youcan get out of the other person,
and sometimes that means you'renot getting anything from this
relationship other than therelationship itself, and that

(29:39):
has to be enough, in youropinion.
Like, obviously I'm not talkingabout somebody who is an energy
vampire or somebody who bringsyou down 10 levels or somebody
who's lying to you that's notthe same thing I'm talking about
.
But like, or somebody who'slying to you, that's not the
same thing I'm talking about.
But like, your connection tosomebody isn't just what they
can do for you, and like, if itis what they can do for you,

(30:01):
they can usually tell People cansense when you just want to be
close to them for what you canget from them.

It just it's an ick.
Yeah, it is an ick, and I candefinitely pick that up from
people who, you know, approachme or that I get to know and
like, okay, you know, they justwant a lot of free advice and
they're not going to pay foranything.
They, you know how manyproposals can I send, and then I
see them execute my ideas ontheir own, you know.
So things like that havehappened along the way, and so

(30:29):
being able to gauge that andknow where to prioritize and
where to spend your time, whereit's going to be worth it in
terms of just the relationshipyou know, because it has to be,
you know, mutual in terms ofrespect, and otherwise it's just
not worth it no-transcript.

And also, you already have a network and you
don't know who knows who.
So don't completely shut downone side of your life with
people that already know you and, like you, that you've already
built a relationship with overthe years just to go build
something from scratch over here.
And then the other thing that Ihad to have somebody connect the
dots for me on was, I thought,because I'm a marketer and I put

(31:45):
things into sequence almost asa second nature.
So I'm thinking about a waythat I can systematize keeping
in touch with people, and youcan do that to an extent on
something like an email listwhere I know somebody came from
here and they need to get overthere and I know what the steps
are.
But I can't do that foreverybody in my network because
everybody's at a different place.

(32:05):
So sometimes the easiest way tomaintain that relationship is
just like you said.
Oh, your name came up inconversation the other day
because this new person I metneeds a PR person.
Let me connect you.
Oh, somebody I know juststarted a podcast and they're
looking for guests.
Let me connect you.
That's actually keeping intouch with your network and
there's no fancy sequenceinvolved in that.

I don't know if any of that just made sense,
but I had to have somebodyexplain that to me that is such
a really great point because youwere I guess we're conditioned
to think about the new I got toget out there in this new group,
in this new organization andthese new people that I don't
know, that I have, and we haveall this wealth of resource
within our own network.
And so I finally came to therealization one day, as we're

(32:50):
talking about thinking aboutthis, that you know, between,
like the WeBanks and the NABOsand Enterprising Women and 10KSB
, and all these groups that havehad different seasons in my
life, and some are, you know,continuing, some you know I was
a part of, and then, you know,transition on that I really have
all of the, everything I needto continue to grow my business,

(33:12):
like I can pick up the phoneand find that resource that I
need I had, they're alreadywithin my network.
So it's just a matter of youknow and this is a tough thing
too, for for me and I thinkprobably a lot of entrepreneurs
and asking for help or askingfor the advice or the input, or
I'm thinking about this, what doyou think?
Cause we're just moving so fastand trying to, you know, push

(33:33):
all everything ahead and movingforward that if we pause and
take the time to reach out andpeople are more than willing to
provide their input.
You know, they've seen yourbusiness, they've watched you
grow and learn and be happy togive input, happy to help or
make that introduction and sojust understanding the power of

(33:54):
the network you already have andreally leveraging that yeah,
not in an icky way, but just ina way of asking for their input.
People love to do that.
I love to do that when peoplereach out and that I have known
and worked with or you know,colleagues or clients or etc.
Oh my gosh.

Thank you so much for saying that, Cause I had
that happen, right, we're.
We're in business, and this isan exercise in constantly
stepping out of your comfortzone, because once you get to a
level and you've achieved a goalcool.
What next?
Now we're going to stretch ourcomfort zone again.
Right, this is always growing.
It's always uncomfortable.
You gotta be comfortable with acertain level of discomfort as

(34:34):
an entrepreneur, right?
So this ties back into a storythat's coming to mind is the
first time I went out andoffered my services as a
fractional CMO.
So for anybody that's hearingthe word fractional for a first
time, this is kind of likepart-time ongoing for somebody
that's not bringing in a chiefmarketing officer full-time,
right.
I've run marketing departments.
I've run copy teams.

(34:54):
I've seen the totality of everykind of marketing channel and
media mix that you can possiblysee.
So I'm very familiar with whata CMO does.
But since I had never done itmyself in an official capacity,
I'm figuring it out with myclients, right, I know I can do
the job, but I've got to figureout my own systems and processes
.
So when I got a little bit inmy head with the first client, I

(35:17):
went out to two CMOs that Iknow fractional CMOs and said,
hey, and I said it exactly likethat.
I'm a little bit in my head,Like I know that these are the
pieces that I need to solve forthis person.
We've talked about this indepth, I'm confident, but what
kind of tools do you have, Likea tracking spreadsheet?
Would you be willing to showthat to me?
One of them made me a video andshowed me her behind the scenes

(35:39):
tracking spreadsheet for herclients and said now, obviously
you're going to be doing thingsdifferently depending on your
methodology, but here's how Iapproach this.
I hope that helps.
Another person actually offeredto get on a call with me for 30
minutes and he reviewed myspreadsheet and was like I think
you're getting way toocomplicated here.
Maybe focus on these threethings, right?
Remember that this is going tobe simplification and focus.
That's what you're coming inhere to help these people do.

(36:01):
Don't get so caught up in thelike I need to make it fancy, I
need to be impressive, Right,and so, like I, part of that was
on me.
I had to have the courage toask and not just get sucked into
that narrative of I don't knowwhat I'm doing.
They're going to figure me out,right.
But also I had just going outto the network and trusting that
the right people are going toshow up for me and they're going
to help me out and they'regoing to help me out from the

(36:22):
goodness of their heart, right,it was like a five-minute
commitment from one person, itwas like a 30, and they are so
high up on my goodwill list oflike do you need clients?
Yeah, absolutely, I'm sendingthem to you guys.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
And it took courage for you todo that and to be vulnerable.
I think that's also somethingthat a lot of entrepreneurs
don't want to show vulnerability, don't want to go there and
would rather not.
And so you kind of muddlethrough and you found out that,
yeah, you could simplify forthem like what a gift that is

(36:57):
from your colleague to tell youthat, because if you have a
client that's confused oroverwhelmed, you know how is
that going to go in terms of allthe things you're trying to do
in the project you're working on.
So that was great advice to getand you took the time to
solicit that.
So I think that's reallyimportant.

I'm only just now realizing this, but it's also a
sign of respect, too right, whenyou reach out to somebody and
you say, hey, I'm trying to dosomething and I know that you've
got experience in this.
Can I ask you a couple ofquestions?
And I've just made that part ofmy regular practice.
Now, not too long ago, Iactually discovered that there's
another marketer who does asimilar story intensive process

(37:39):
to what I do, where you know, wespent a couple of intensive
days where I interview you andlike turn your stories into
marketing, and I was like myinitial reaction when I
discovered that she does thiswas oh shit, somebody else is
doing it.
Like competition panic, Likecompetition panic, like the sky
is falling Right.
And after I sat with thatuncomfortable feeling right
Comfort, with discomfort for asecond.

I went.

This is bullshit.
She does it.
So, one, she's already proventhat the model works Right.
Two, she's got a wholedifferent vibe from what I do.
She's definitely like serenity,calm, let the water flow, and
I'm like kick down the wall, setthings on fire, rock and roll
Like there's.
There's space for both of us todo this, because certain people

(38:23):
that want to work with me weprobably wouldn't get along with
the spa vibe and certain people, even though I love spas um,
this is my dirty little secret,I will be there all day long so
I can go set things on fire andpeople that want to have that
high energy, that rock and roll,that rebel thing, they're going
to want to work with me and Ican refer people to her.
So I actually I proposed thatto her.

(38:45):
I was like, hey, so I justdiscovered, actually, that we're
doing something kind of similar.
Do you mind if we hop on a calland I ask you some questions
about what you're doing?
I'm just really curious, andthen maybe there's some people
that I can refer to you as Ilearn more about what you're
doing.
And she hopped on a call withme and she told me about her
entire offer.
We're technically, by allmeasures, objective measures

(39:07):
competitors.
But I don't think we'recompetitors, we're collaborators
.

Yeah, there's plenty for everyone.
That's how I look at it.
Within different communities,within different geographies,
within industries, there'splenty of opportunity and
sometimes you can collaborate or, like you said, refer business.
So I think that you know, inthe way that she's doing is
completely different from howyou approach it, and so I think
that's what you know figuringthat out and realizing, being

(39:32):
comfortable with that.
Like you know, I see all thetime you know competitors moving
into the space and this focus,but they're not going to do it
like I do or they may not bepart of the networks that I'm a
part of and the relationshipsthat I've built for 10 years.
So I mean it's there could beopportunities, like you said you
know, to collaborate and Ithink that's one of the things

(39:56):
in these industries and thesefields that we're in.
Is it for me like being able tobounce ideas off of someone,
that creative spark?
You know I was used to beingpart of all kinds of leading
teams, you know at a nationallevel, and being a part of that.
So you kind of miss that.
You know, in the entrepreneurworld and you may have some team
members and things like that,but being able to have that
creative energy and ideageneration.

(40:16):
That is really important inthese spaces.
So to have those colleaguesthat you can call upon just for
that, just for somebrainstorming or bounce ideas
off of, is really important tokind of keep up the momentum,
keep yourself inspired andengaged.
And am I on the right trackhere or am I not?

You know, Absolutely Well, and something
that's coming up for me as I'mlistening to you is that I feel
called to make the distinctiontoo.
I know that there might be asubset of people listening to
that who think, well, I'm not ina mastermind, I'm not in a
networking group, and I feelcalled to make the distinction
that only one of the people thatI mentioned, the person that

(40:58):
only one of the people that Imentioned, the person that got
on the 30-minute call with me,is in a mastermind with me.
The rest of the people that Imentioned, reaching out to and
asking for help, are simplycolleagues, professional
connections and friends, peoplethat I've met over the years.
Like, I'm not paying them,they're not paying me, we just
have a relationship.
So, like, try not to do.
Like I do, right, do as I say,not as I do, and put these
mental dividing lines between.
This is who I can call for help, and these are the reasons why.

(41:19):
And these are the people that Ican't approach for help, and
these are the reasons why Justask, because the worst that they
can say is no.
There's no blacklist followingyou around.
Well, like she asked for toomuch shit and we must shun her.
That's not the way it works.

You won't be shunned.
I mean, I think that at theworst you get no response.
And in my world, you know,getting no response happens
every day as I'm pitching mediaand trying to get stories and
like, just just no response andyou know having to follow up and
be diligent and so you know.
Same thing if you're asking forinput.
I mean you don't want to harasspeople or stalk them everywhere
, but you know, and you don'twant to harass people or stalk

(41:53):
them everywhere, but you know,give them an opportunity and if
they don't respond, maybe nowisn't the right time.
It's not anything against youpersonally.
You know they may not just beable to fit it in and like, oh
yeah.
You know, sometimes when I docall people, like, oh yeah, I
meant to get to that and they'llarchive.
You know a lot of media andreporters and people I work with

(42:13):
and producers They'll hoardersand people I work with and
producers they'll keep thingsthat I've sent like a year
previously and then call mebecause they have an opportunity
and they have something they'reworking on that's relevant.
So same thing if you're askingfor input.
You know, with colleagues andthings like that, the timing
could be a little off for them.

I love that you brought that up because I feel
like that came up in one of mymedia groups recently, where
somebody said I've been pitchingand pitching and pitching and
and I'm not getting any responseand I'm wondering what I'm
doing wrong.
And I said something similar toyou which I think is so
brilliant and so insightful, andI really want to unpack that
for people that are listening.
Often it's nothing that you'redoing Like it's it's timing, or

(42:49):
you know they may have had justa slew of similar story ideas
recently, or they're completelyoverwhelmed just back from
vacation, completely overwhelmedjust back from their life
blowing up.
There are so many reasons whysomebody may not be responding
to you that have nothing to dowith who you are as a person, or
your worthiness or the angle ofthe story or the value that you

(43:10):
could bring to them.
We've got to be better atdetaching from a no.
A no is just a no.

It's not an indictment of your character and
sometimes it could just be anot now, like they have other
priorities, I think,particularly with the media.
Just to talk about that alittle bit.
You know newsrooms havecompletely shrunk.
A lot of reporters and editors,they're all working from home
since the pandemic.
They're not in newsrooms, um,anymore not as much anyway.
They will be in the officeoccasionally, here and there.

(43:40):
But so being able to form thoserelationships and know how to
reach them when you do havesomething you think they might
be interested in and be able topursue that, so the cell phone
and all that leaving messages ontheir office phone they're not
even in the office, that's justthe reality.
Or they could be out gettingstories and things like that and
out in the field.
It's just the reality.
Or they could be out gettingstories and things like that and

(44:00):
out in the field.
But you got to give people alittle time to respond.
But I think the two things thatpeople really need to keep in
mind is the urgency so why now?
Why is this relevant?
And the relevancy, so theurgency why now and then?
Why does my audience care aboutthis?
And so, if you can tie thosethings together and what your

(44:21):
pitch and your angle is to makeit relevant, and they need to
cover this now, because this lawhas just passed, or this
legislation or this issue, tyingit into a larger trend really
will help have it rise to thetop.
And then, of course, you have tomake it really easy, and having
all of the spokespeople queuedup and ready here's who I could
offer you, here's who couldcomment on this.

(44:42):
This is why this is a storythat you need to cover now being
able to connect all those dotsfor them, because they're so
slammed and there are fewer andfewer people covering different
beats and things like that, andreally reading and knowing and
listening to who it is that isthe right person that you should

(45:02):
be going after.
That covers this industry.
That's super important.
So there are a lot of factorsinvolved and it takes a lot of
research and, of course, formingrelationships and all of that.
But, yeah, relevance andurgency are the top two things
that you need to be able to tieit into.

And that's yet another piece of brilliance that
, like you, just kind ofcasually dropped there and I
want to highlight for people,thank you.
Like there was okay.
So last year I had this loftygoal of like get on 40 podcasts
by the time I turned 40.
And I hit that goal.
Part of that was with help froma matching service called
Podmatch, and I can't tell you,when I went on there, I got

(45:40):
immediately inundated by peoplewho wanted to be on Permission
to Kick Ass, which, on the onehand yay, more interesting
people, absolutely.
On the other hand, I actuallyshut it down after less than 48
hours.
I stopped accepting guests onthere because I was so
overwhelmed by pitches, and letme tell you that 90% of the
pitches were check out myprofile and let me know if
there's a fit.

(46:00):
Running a podcast is already afuck ton of work.
I'm not going to go out of myway to learn who you are and
figure out myself how you couldbe a benefit to the show, and I
think that that's what'shappening in a lot of businesses
, especially when we take itpersonally right.
Don't they know?
Can't they see from my body ofwork?
Like, no, they're not going to,they're busy too.

(46:21):
Anything that you can do to makeit easier on the person to say
yes is going to be to yourbenefit, even if it's a little
bit of extra work for you.
And I'm not saying study thisperson and stalk them for two
weeks and come up with theperfect, like manipulative
master plan to get them to sayyes.
But I am saying, you know, asthe host of a show where I get

(46:42):
dozens of pitches a week and alot of them are clearly from
people who are sending the samecopy and pasted letter to
everybody that they've ever sentout.
I've been called the wrong name, I've been used the wrong show.
I've had people say thatthey're longtime fans and then
pitch me a story that I wouldnever air Like and if they
listened and they were trulyfans that they would know.
I literally have in my marketing.
This is not X ways to Y or Z.

(47:04):
If you need to present there areother marketing shows for that.
That's not what the show is.
So anybody that actually wentout of their way to, even if
they just listened to 15 minutesof one episode, and say hey,
I'm a new fan, I just listenedto the first part of this one,
but I felt compelled to reachout and here's a story idea I've
got from you.
I have so much more respect forthat person than the spray and

(47:25):
pray.

Yeah, yeah.
It doesn't work with other mediaoutreach either, and they see
right through that, and there'seven people that will post
things like here's the latestpitch I got, you know, check
this out.
And because they're justinundated with it and so not
taking the time to to reallyunderstand the platform, what
they write about, what theydon't, and if they just covered
something, they're not going tocover that again immediately.
So, even if you bring indifferent perspective, that's
really hard for them to do,unless, again, you make it

(47:53):
compelling enough.
And here's a different anglethat you didn't look at entirely
, and here's why you need tofocus on it, because it impacts
this amount of people orwhatever it is.
So you have to have your facts,you have to state your case,
you know, and maybe they'll do afollow-up.
But if they've already writtenabout something that's a lot
that I hear you know fromclients like, oh, we should be a
part of this story it's like,well, they did that, let's

(48:15):
reframe and let's think aboutyou know, what could we bring
them that they haven't done?
Yeah, so that's important too,yeah.

Oh man, I just realized that we hit time.
I have like three morequestions that I want to ask,
but I want to be respectful ofyour time and the listeners time
, so I'm just going to end ithere and say thank you so much
for sharing your brilliance.
This has been a fantasticepisode.
Please tell us more where wecan learn about you your firm

(48:44):
how to work with you.

You are so welcome.
I'm so glad that we had theopportunity to sit down and have
a discussion.
It's awesome, so I appreciateit very much.
But people can get in touchwith me, you know, through my
website actually,julielillistoncom, and if they'd
like, if they would like a 30minute complimentary
consultation, they certainly cando that and just fill out the
form and just say you know, Iheard you on permission to kick
ass and we could set that up.

(49:06):
Be happy to talk through yourbiggest PR problem and see what
brainstorming we can do to kindof solve that.
I'm also on Instagram at JulieLilliston, and, of course,
linkedin, so connect with methere.

I want to make sure that there are clickable links
in the show notes.
And what an incredibly generousgive right there 30 minutes for
free with somebody who's anexpert at extracting your
stories and helping you figureout how to position yourself.
I would take her up on that ifI were you just saying so.
Thank you again for being suchan awesome guest and I
appreciate you.

Thank you, it's been awesome, thank you.

That's all for now.
If you want to keep thatkick-ass energy high, please
take a minute to share thisepisode with someone that might
need a high-octane dose of youCan Do it.
Don't forget to rate, reviewand subscribe to the Permission
to Kick-Ass podcast on ApplePodcasts, spotify and wherever
you stream your podcasts.
I'm your host, angie Coley, andI'm here rooting for you.

(50:04):
Thanks for listening and let'sgo kick some ass.

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